Below is the link to the linear drain kit I used if you're interested... www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0794NYZFK/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B0794NYZFK&linkCode=as2&tag=thefrugalhome-20&linkId=ee8d13b350ccc05727d21ae32ca0a7fe
One staple, one vial head sticking out somewhere, an missed piece of gravel... that's all it takes for that glued seam single oly waiting disaster. HOT MOP-WHEN YOU ONLY HAVE ONE SHOT AT IT...
I am a Hotmopper/Shower Constructor 25 Years Experience, From Long Beach. Customers think curbless showers are easy things to do but they have no idea the labor and, unfortunately, extra money involved. They requirs dropping the area of the shower a minimum of 3" lower than the bathroom floor then they can start to think about where to put the drain and where to build the new 3inch lower shower box and where the drain would be.
Hi. Thanks for the voice. So if water goes in between the metal edging of the linear drain and concrete in leaks into liner and out the weep wholes ? Thanks.
You guys do good work, but have you looked into a single, sloped mud pan, then top it with a membrane like hydro ban or Kerdi? Also liquid roll on membranes too. 👍
How to Hacks You can buy kerdi or laticrete membranes to go over a mud pan for not a lot. There’s other companies of course. Preformed shower pans can be spendy or cheap. I just used schluters sloped pan, 38x60, it was @$100. But some guys don’t like the foam pre sloped pans.
Use deck mud like usual, waterproof w/ Flex Tile (black) WP980; it's just like a synthetic tar, yet not as near messy. I use 4 coats and fabric all inside/outside corners and around drain, great stuff!! (',
So I’m starting a similar project but I don’t understand the proper height for final tiling around the drain which needs to be pretty precise. Once the concrete is set to the recessed depth of the drain to account for the tile. How much does the thinset raise the tile by and do we need to account for that so the tile will be flush with the edge of the linear drain?
The thinset raises the tile slightly but not much. If you set your drain a tick (1/16 to 1/8”) higher you can add more thinset under the tiles to raise them up to meet the drain. You can also press a lot of the thinset out from under the tiles to lower them. Just make sure everything will slope towards the drain when completed.
Also it helps to use a 3 foot level to lay across the tiles while the thinset is still wet. Then you can press down on the level to even the tiles out while at the same time setting the correct slope.
Just to even it out and make a nice flat surface that you can walk on without waiting for it to dry. I’m sure you can get by without it but the time and additional cost is minimal.
The sand topping mix is mixed with more sand in the same ratio for both. The pre pitch is just mixed a tad bit dryer. The extra sand mix makes it easier to spread as you won’t get clumps.
I've heard of people putting down tar paper before the 1st layer of concrete. Something to do with moisture from the concrete getting into the plywood. Could you also just put down cement board to get a solid surface and then place your first layer of concrete on that?
You cant use tar paper, itll dry out the pan liner over time..but u can use felt paper, metal lath, and then do a prefloat so the pan liner doesnt sit below the lip of the oatey flange screwed into the sub floor and allow it to drain since it is a water in system. woulndt use cement board, it doesnt have a slope, the water will just sit there and that is what causes mold etc.
Hello. Thank you for this video. I found it incredibly helpful. I have a question, why mix 3 to 1 concrete to sand? My experience as a mason, dictates that I should be using three parts sand to one part concrete. I look forward to your response. Thank you.
If you have 2” of mortar around the perimeter and your drain height is 1-1/4 lets say,distance from perimeter and drain is very short,how do you slope that,hope you can answer,thank you!
The only thing i would do different is install roofing felt and then cement board on your walls before the second mortar pan. That way the mortar bed holds the bottom of the cement board in place without having to mechanically fasten it and poke holes through your liner. And any water that finds its way through hits the roofing felt and runs down onto shower liner.
I do the same. I also have found after years that a D handle drill and 5 gallon bucket with sand topping mix works even better. You can still mix it dry but after mixed you can just pour buckets and in smaller baths especially it keeps the mess down
This is a water in system so when the water goes throught the mud bed, itll wick up the cement board. You want to install wallboard after you float the pan
Im doing a walk in curbless shower for a friend of a friend. He wants to help but never has done this type of work, yet he has his opinions. He wants to put shark bites, copper to pex underneath shower and in concrete. I believe you should have access to them. Then he wants to use concrete with rocks in it for shower pan. I use sand topping mix. He now wants to take all sand topping mix back to store and replace them with regular bag of high strength with rocks. Can you please give your opinion on these 2 topics? Thank you for your time.
Use sand topping mix mixed with extra sand like I did in the video. Regular concrete with large rocks is too hard to smooth and feather at an angle for proper drainage. For the plumbing I would just soldered fittings and go around the concrete shower pan not through it as that can lead to all sorts of problems.
I think it took 10 bags of sand topping mix and 3.5 bags of sand. I mixed 3 parts sand topping mix with 1 part sand. This extra sand prevents the mixture from getting clumpy.
The concrete doesn’t bond to plywood and doesn’t have to. The pre-slope is there to make the rubber membrane slope toward the drain. That’s it. The concrete just sits there and holds the rubber at an angle so if water reaches the membrane it will work it’s way down to the drain.
How can those big pieces of underlayment give you any pitch? Float pan before cement board on walls? No screeds to work off of, just a line on the pan liner? Hmmm
If you watch at the beginning of the video we throw down a dry mix of concrete (sand topping mix) to get our slope before laying the underpayment and screwing it down. We pour the floor before setting the cement board because the rubber liner should go behind the cement boards on the wall and it’s easier to finish the concrete without it on. Also, due to the way the shower needed to be framed there is only one place to screed which is at the doorway. The rubber liner needs to end above the concrete on the walls and you don’t want to poke holes in it so you just use a 4 foot level to float it. It is actually very easy to get your slope this way due to the dryness and workability of the sand topping mix that is used.
Below is the link to the linear drain kit I used if you're interested...
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0794NYZFK/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B0794NYZFK&linkCode=as2&tag=thefrugalhome-20&linkId=ee8d13b350ccc05727d21ae32ca0a7fe
One staple, one vial head sticking out somewhere, an missed piece of gravel... that's all it takes for that glued seam single oly waiting disaster. HOT MOP-WHEN YOU ONLY HAVE ONE SHOT AT IT...
And Btw, this dude makes it look easy in his easy ride Jean jacket. Old School Mason, Back When There Were Some Whites Dudes Left
A top 10 video for shower pans for sure. GREAT VIDEO!
Thanks
Thanks for the demonstration! You reminded me my boss who taught me to work in the trade back to almost 20 years ago. All the best to you guys!
I am a Hotmopper/Shower Constructor 25 Years Experience, From Long Beach. Customers think curbless showers are easy things to do but they have no idea the labor and, unfortunately, extra money involved. They requirs dropping the area of the shower a minimum of 3" lower than the bathroom floor then they can start to think about where to put the drain and where to build the new 3inch lower shower box and where the drain would be.
Yes labor is intense heavy huge back and forth many constumer don't understand that
Hi. Thanks for the voice. So if water goes in between the metal edging of the linear drain and concrete in leaks into liner and out the weep wholes ? Thanks.
That is correct.
You guys do good work, but have you looked into a single, sloped mud pan, then top it with a membrane like hydro ban or Kerdi? Also liquid roll on membranes too. 👍
Yeah I have but I believe they are the more expensive option. They will save on install time though.
How to Hacks You can buy kerdi or laticrete membranes to go over a mud pan for not a lot. There’s other companies of course. Preformed shower pans can be spendy or cheap. I just used schluters sloped pan, 38x60, it was @$100. But some guys don’t like the foam pre sloped pans.
Kevr Good to know. I’ll have to look into this the next time I do a pan.
Use deck mud like usual, waterproof w/ Flex Tile (black) WP980; it's just like a synthetic tar, yet not as near messy. I use 4 coats and fabric all inside/outside corners and around drain, great stuff!! (',
This is superior installation. Using water based paint on membranes on shower pans is iffy at best. I've seen hydroban fail multiple times.
nice work boys.
So I’m starting a similar project but I don’t understand the proper height for final tiling around the drain which needs to be pretty precise. Once the concrete is set to the recessed depth of the drain to account for the tile. How much does the thinset raise the tile by and do we need to account for that so the tile will be flush with the edge of the linear drain?
The thinset raises the tile slightly but not much. If you set your drain a tick (1/16 to 1/8”) higher you can add more thinset under the tiles to raise them up to meet the drain. You can also press a lot of the thinset out from under the tiles to lower them. Just make sure everything will slope towards the drain when completed.
Also it helps to use a 3 foot level to lay across the tiles while the thinset is still wet. Then you can press down on the level to even the tiles out while at the same time setting the correct slope.
Why use cement board over the pre-pitch? I generally put the membrane right over the mortar.
Just to even it out and make a nice flat surface that you can walk on without waiting for it to dry. I’m sure you can get by without it but the time and additional cost is minimal.
I Agree hope he attached the board to the pan some how
Agree 100% Don't understand the cement board.
Mostly it saves time. This way you can complete a shower in a single day. Otherwise you have to wait for mortar to dry before working on top of it.
The sand topping mix is used for the pre pitch below the membrane and the pan above the membrane? Thanks for the vid. You make it look easy.
The sand topping mix is mixed with more sand in the same ratio for both. The pre pitch is just mixed a tad bit dryer. The extra sand mix makes it easier to spread as you won’t get clumps.
I've heard of people putting down tar paper before the 1st layer of concrete. Something to do with moisture from the concrete getting into the plywood. Could you also just put down cement board to get a solid surface and then place your first layer of concrete on that?
Maybe. But cement board won’t slope as well as sand topping mix. You want a nice even slope at your rubber membrane so any moisture can drain.
You cant use tar paper, itll dry out the pan liner over time..but u can use felt paper, metal lath, and then do a prefloat so the pan liner doesnt sit below the lip of the oatey flange screwed into the sub floor and allow it to drain since it is a water in system. woulndt use cement board, it doesnt have a slope, the water will just sit there and that is what causes mold etc.
Hello. Thank you for this video. I found it incredibly helpful. I have a question, why mix 3 to 1 concrete to sand? My experience as a mason, dictates that I should be using three parts sand to one part concrete. I look forward to your response. Thank you.
We used sand topping mix so there is already a lot of sand right out of the bag. Then we mixed more sand in with that.
@@HowtoHacksthat's not proper analogy or response tho. Your concrete seems very sandy and dry
@@AasnaA The mix is supposed to be sandy and dry. This isn’t like pouring a concrete pad. We have done a lot of these and have never had a problem.
How high do you mark the wall on you rubber liner when you have the linear shower drain for the cement in your shower pan!
You want about 1/4 inch of fall per foot.
How long does it usually take to dry the Final layer before you tile?
Next day you can walk on it. I am usually setting the cement board on the walls.
If you have 2” of mortar around the perimeter and your drain height is 1-1/4 lets say,distance from perimeter and drain is very short,how do you slope that,hope you can answer,thank you!
I would just use a short straight edge and screed it.
Good job guys !!
Thanks😉
The only thing i would do different is install roofing felt and then cement board on your walls before the second mortar pan. That way the mortar bed holds the bottom of the cement board in place without having to mechanically fasten it and poke holes through your liner. And any water that finds its way through hits the roofing felt and runs down onto shower liner.
I do the same. I also have found after years that a D handle drill and 5 gallon bucket with sand topping mix works even better. You can still mix it dry but after mixed you can just pour buckets and in smaller baths especially it keeps the mess down
@@jameswilkinson4587 You know, after all these years we just figured that out a couple years ago. Eats buckets though.
This is a water in system so when the water goes throught the mud bed, itll wick up the cement board. You want to install wallboard after you float the pan
Im doing a walk in curbless shower for a friend of a friend. He wants to help but never has done this type of work, yet he has his opinions. He wants to put shark bites, copper to pex underneath shower and in concrete. I believe you should have access to them. Then he wants to use concrete with rocks in it for shower pan. I use sand topping mix. He now wants to take all sand topping mix back to store and replace them with regular bag of high strength with rocks. Can you please give your opinion on these 2 topics? Thank you for your time.
Use sand topping mix mixed with extra sand like I did in the video. Regular concrete with large rocks is too hard to smooth and feather at an angle for proper drainage. For the plumbing I would just soldered fittings and go around the concrete shower pan not through it as that can lead to all sorts of problems.
@@HowtoHacks Thank you for your info. I greatly appreciate it. 🙏
You’re welcome
Is it done? Ask him to show you proof of who says it’s ok to use aggregate mix. No pro does that
Do you wrap the linear shower drain with anything or just concrete right up to it?
Place pea gravel around the center drain and just concrete up to it.
How did you make the slope
Can you be more specific?
No pea stones?
Yeah I did put some by the drain.
How many bags of mix did it take to complete just your pan? Great job and video guys!
I think it took 10 bags of sand topping mix and 3.5 bags of sand. I mixed 3 parts sand topping mix with 1 part sand. This extra sand prevents the mixture from getting clumpy.
Sandtopping mix is already at a 3to1 ratio. So he's making a 4to1 mix, 5to1 is even better.
NO CONCRETE WAS USED IN THIS VIDEO. Thank God.
Dry vs wet concrete?
You still add water, just less water and make a dryer mix.
3 parts sand 1 part Portland cement
Pre sloop i don't understand how cocrete bonds to regular plywood this is reazon why a los shower base leak and destroyed houses joints and wall
The concrete doesn’t bond to plywood and doesn’t have to. The pre-slope is there to make the rubber membrane slope toward the drain. That’s it. The concrete just sits there and holds the rubber at an angle so if water reaches the membrane it will work it’s way down to the drain.
How can those big pieces of underlayment give you any pitch? Float pan before cement board on walls? No screeds to work off of, just a line on the pan liner? Hmmm
If you watch at the beginning of the video we throw down a dry mix of concrete (sand topping mix) to get our slope before laying the underpayment and screwing it down. We pour the floor before setting the cement board because the rubber liner should go behind the cement boards on the wall and it’s easier to finish the concrete without it on. Also, due to the way the shower needed to be framed there is only one place to screed which is at the doorway. The rubber liner needs to end above the concrete on the walls and you don’t want to poke holes in it so you just use a 4 foot level to float it. It is actually very easy to get your slope this way due to the dryness and workability of the sand topping mix that is used.
Not concrete. Floor mud