David Butler & Mike Day | The Ancient Temple and Lehi's Tree of Life Vision
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- Опубликовано: 24 янв 2024
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In this episode of the "Ask the Experts Interview Series" the Paul brothers have a discussion with David Butler and Mike Day about the extensive research and study Dave has done to find the plain and precious truths in the scripture to understand the “mysteries” of God. Presenting his hypothesis that the Tree of Life Vision found in 1 Nephi is highly symbolic of LDS Temple theology.
D. John Butler (Dave) is a lifelong member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. His training is in law, and he also writes fiction. He has written two books on his finds in the scriptures entitled “Plain and Precious Things” and “The Goodness and The Mysteries”.
The Stick of Joseph RUclips channel seeks to make the Book of Mormon accessible to all ages by making engaging, entertaining and informative content.
Like, subscribe and follow us on Instagram under the handle of @thestickofjoseph ( / @thestickofjoseph )
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BUY DAVE'S NEW BOOK HERE: plainandpreciouspublishing.com/products/in-the-language-of-adam-paperback
I did... But ya'll don't ship to Canada so I sent it to a relatives in the USA.... Once they finish reading it, they will send it the rest of the way . Truth be told, it's taking a lot longer than I had hoped, still super excited to get it!
Nothing you guys have done, just thought you would get a kick out of the experience.
😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊
Guys your last show and this is the content I'm craving from producers. This was just amazing! Please do a weekly series with these two guests! This was Celestial material level goodness!
Yes yes yes!!!!
YAAASSSSSSS!!!!!!
Been anxiously waiting for this! I will add that, as far as women in the church goes, that early on after attending the temple, and being the feminist I used to be, I struggled for a bit. But many years ago, I came to the conclusion that the role of women is likely more than what we know, and it is not our role to “do what the men do” - but that we have a role in the priesthood that we will eventually learn. And I’m here for it. And have learned patience. This episode spoke to my soul. Seriously, thank you.
There’s an article called “the two trees” that I really like. Plus a video of a lecture by the same name on the Academy for Temple Studies channel (part of the Lady in the Temple playlist).
I’ve also been reading a lot of church history lately, and I think women used to feel like they had more access to priesthood power in the beginning (based on things Joseph said and did, if you read the minutes from the Relief Society meeting), and they actually did have “ordained” women healers, midwives, and obstetricians (my sister told me about the last two, I only knew about the healers). General Relief Society President also was originally a lifelong calling, until Emmeline B Wells (President number 5) was released like 20 days before she died (Emma doesn’t really count as having been released; she’s a special case).
There was also a lot of top-down extolling from past leaders, like after the original/second generation apostles had mostly all died, that women had ZERO priesthood, outside of their relationship with their husbands. Now, it’s much more clear that, yes, women p, and all who have been set apart for callings, and gone through the temple, and work in the temple, use priesthood power, which is the power of God, and not confined to an “office held by a worthy male.” Worthy, ordained men have the authority, but worthy women (and children!) can and do have access to it, and can use it (the blessings women gave were never sealed by priesthood authority, but always in the Lord’s name.)
I think we’re getting back to a place where women are being included more in the decision-making processes and included in councils at at least the local levels, but I wish there would be an “official” push to make sure the women leaders are included in council meetings, at all levels. I can’t imagine God is no respecter of persons, EXCEPT where gender is concerned; and then you only get the respect of definitely having a voice in councils if you’re male. It doesn’t seem quite right to me. But that could be the feminist in me 🤷♀️
Definitely look into the "two trees." The Tree of Knowledge being "Eve's" stewardship, and the Tree of Life being "Adam's" stewardship" (and Jesus Christ, the "2nd Adam"....crucified on a TREE... in the meridian of Time). The Tree of Knowledge has already been partaken of, and thus we have fallen into mortality and linear Time. "Eve's tree" is behind us...we can't *see* her part. Thus, as we move forward in time, with Eve's tree behind us, it's like...we don't even see her. We don't see "her part" - we only *see* Adam's part (which can make it appear as if Eve has no part at all). But that's not the case. Eve provides spirits their physical birth...to be born so that we can die. Christ (2nd Adam) made it possible for ALL to live beyond death - He opened up the Way (we are born to die, and through Christ we die to LIVE). "Adam's" stewardship is to provide souls their "second birth" - (Priesthood ordinances) to be born again, to become "new creatures" in Christ. Both stewardships are essential and the Plan would be frustated without these vital TREES.
Sidenote: Last year, temple changes occurred on Tu B'Shvat - The New Year for TREES!! Tomorrow is the one year anniversary of those changes. Just a fun side study...look into references about trees! Also remember the Menorah is the Tree of Life, with almond blossoms. The rod of Aaron which was used to perform miracles in Egypt was a dead almond branch. The tribes placed their rods in the temple and God chose Aaron's rod. This DEAD ALMOND BRANCH budded, blossomed and bore fruit overnight. The almond tree is the first tree to "wake up" after winter....its blossoms are WHITE. Israel celebrates this...when they see the white almond blossoms, they know the sap is now alive and running through the trees, to eventually bring forth fruit.
"The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree." ~Acts 5: 30
"To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that he might be glorified." ~Isaiah 61:3
"And the king made of the almug trees PILLARS for the HOUSE OF THE LORD.." ~1 Kings 10: 12
"Him that overcometh will I make a PILLAR IN THE TEMPLE of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name." ~Revelation 3: 12
"But I am like a green olive tree in the HOUSE of God. I trust in the steadfast love of God forever and ever." ~Psalm 52: 8
"Blessed is the man that trusteth in the Lord, and whose hope the Lord is. For he shall be as a tree planted by the waters, and that spreadeth out her roots by the river, and shall not see when heat cometh, but her leaf shall be green; and shall not be careful in the year of drought, neither shall cease from yielding fruit." ~Jeremiah 17:7-8
"And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire." ~Matthew 3: 10
"Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit." ~Mattthew 12: 33
"The righteous shall flourish like the palm tree: he shall grow like a cedar in Lebanon." ~Psalm 92:12
"As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving." ~Colossians 2:6-7
"Man that is born of a woman is of few days and full of trouble. He cometh forth like a flower, and is cut down: he fleeth also as a shadow, and continueth not. And doth thou open thine eyes upon such an one, and bringest me into judgment with thee? Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one. Seeing his days are determined, the number of his months are with thee, thou hast appointed his bounds that he cannot pass; Turn from him, that he may rest, till he shall accomplish, as an hireling, his day. For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease." ~Job 14:1-7
"She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy is every one that retaineth her." ~Proverbs 3: 18
"For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again. For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins." ~Romans 11:16-27
"The trees went forth on a time to anoint a king over them; and they said unto the olive tree, Reign thou over us." ~Judges 9: 8
"I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." ~John 15: 5
~xoxo!!!
Definitely look into the "two trees." The Tree of Knowledge being "Eve's" stewardship, and the Tree of Life being "Adam's" stewardship" (and Jesus Christ, the "2nd Adam"....crucified on a TREE... in the meridian of Time). The Tree of Knowledge has already been partaken of, and thus we have fallen into mortality and linear Time. "Eve's tree" is behind us...we can't *see* her part. Thus, as we move forward in time, with Eve's tree behind us, it's like...we don't even see her. We don't see "her part" - we only *see* Adam's part (which can make it appear as if Eve has no part at all). But that's not the case. Eve provides spirits their physical birth...to be born so that we can die. Christ (2nd Adam) made it possible for ALL to live beyond death - He opened up the Way (we are born to die, and through Christ we die to LIVE). "Adam's" stewardship is to provide souls their "second birth" - to be born again, to become "new creatures" in Christ. Both stewardships are essential and the Plan would be frustated without these vital TREES.
Sidenote: Last year, temple changes occurred on Tu B'Shvat - The New Year for TREES!! Tomorrow is the one year anniversary of those changes. Just a fun side study...look into references about trees! Also remember the Menorah is the Tree of Life, with almond blossoms. The rod of Aaron which was used to perform miracles in Egypt was a dead almond branch. The tribes placed their rods in the temple and God chose Aaron's rod. This DEAD ALMOND BRANCH budded, blossomed and bore fruit overnight. The almond tree is the first tree to "wake up" after winter....its blossoms are WHITE. Israel celebrates this...when they see the white almond blossoms, they know the sap is now alive and running through the trees, to eventually bring forth fruit.
"The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree." ~Acts 5:30
"To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that he might be glorified." ~Isaiah 61:3
"And the king made of the almug trees PILLARS for the HOUSE OF THE LORD.." ~1 Kings 10:12
"Him that overcometh will I make a PILLAR IN THE TEMPLE of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name." ~Revelation 3:12
"But I am like a green olive tree in the HOUSE of God. I trust in the steadfast love of God forever and ever." ~Psalm 52:8
"Blessed is the man that trusteth in the Lord, and whose hope the Lord is. For he shall be as a tree planted by the waters, and that spreadeth out her roots by the river, and shall not see when heat cometh, but her leaf shall be green; and shall not be careful in the year of drought, neither shall cease from yielding fruit." ~Jeremiah 17:7-8
"And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire." ~Matthew 3:10
"Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit." ~Mattthew 12:33
"The righteous shall flourish like the palm tree: he shall grow like a cedar in Lebanon." ~Psalm 92:12
"As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving." ~Colossians 2:6-7
"Man that is born of a woman is of few days and full of trouble. He cometh forth like a flower, and is cut down: he fleeth also as a shadow, and continueth not. And doth thou open thine eyes upon such an one, and bringest me into judgment with thee? Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one. Seeing his days are determined, the number of his months are with thee, thou hast appointed his bounds that he cannot pass; Turn from him, that he may rest, till he shall accomplish, as an hireling, his day. For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease." ~Job 14:1-7
"She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy is every one that retaineth her." ~Proverbs 3:18
"For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again. For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins." ~Romans 16-27
"The trees went forth on a time to anoint a king over them; and they said unto the olive tree, Reign thou over us." ~Judges 9:8
"I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." ~John 15:5
@@gingersnaps215yes, absolutely yes to everything you said and thanks for the resources to look up.
@@dorar6123 You’re quite welcome! I also just listened to an old podcast episode about a book by Melinda Wheelwright Brown called, “Eve and Adam: Discovering the Beautiful Balance.” The podcast is Mandy Green’s podcast Reflecting Light; an episode from Feb 2021. The book I have not read, but is on my list! The author brought up some connections between Eve and Christ that I hadn’t quiiiite noticed, or heard, before Struck me with that whole “the last shall be first and the first shall be last” thing, especially with the context of “The Two Trees” in mind.
AND, add to that things I’ve learned from Margaret Barker lectures about the Tree of Life being the “wisdom” tree, and that is always feminine (the word is feminine in Hebrew and Greek, and often personified as a woman/womanly in scripture), and the Tree of Knowledge is the “masculine” tree. I forget in which lecture she discussed THAT tidbit, but I find all of her lectures fascinating, so I think they’re worth your time if you’re interested! (Plus 2x speed is always an option 😆)
(Barker’s lecture, “Biblical Vision for Creation,” is an excellent one for chesed/hesed/steadfast love/the possible word behind “covenant” in the Book of Mormon/Pres Nelson says IS the everlasting covenant in an article from the October ‘22 Liahona. The “Covenant of Peace” is another lecture about that, too. More male/female balance and a better understanding of hesed for all!! These are my current soap boxes. 😂) Happy reading and learning!
I work in the Gilbert AZ temple and after this discussion I really started paying attention to the symbolism, especially around the celestial room. And sure enough there is a lot but what stuck out to me the most is the glass in the doors leading in and out of the celestial room are etched in a kind of tree bark pattern. I’ve been through those doors a hundred times but never paid attention to it before
Thanks to all four of you. It is an amazing feeling to know there are other people out there interested in these topics.
I would come back for another few hours talking about Isaiah authorship. Just Biblical authorship in general is fascinating and useful. This is some of the best LDS content being made right now. Keep it up!!
I'm finally in love with the BoM again. Thanks to yo' all for this videos. Linking 1 Nephi to the Old Testament and the archeologic finds just makes me to keep on reading it and look for things I've been missing.
Could you ever love the Bible?
@@johnrowley310 I was raised with the Bible. I only found out about the Book of Mormon when I was 14. I will always love the Bible.
This conversation strengthened my testimony. Specifically a strong reminder of the power of God manifest in the balanced, sealed, union of men and women in the Holy Temple. There is so much yet to learn! I love it all.
One item perhaps missed (around 1:40ish) is that celestial room chandeliers ARE The Tree, a symbol that Adam and Eve (us) have been restored, through the veil (Christ) to the Tree of Life. It is white, full of light, beautiful, and most precious. Perhaps many miss the symbology of Lehi's tree because it is UPSIDE down, with its "roots" in heaven, the branches reaching out to us.
At 250 thousand a pop they ought to represent something.
I think it looks like an upside down tree.
At least in my temple.
The veil does not represent Christ. The veil was BORROWED or TAKEN from Freemasonry.
@@johnrowley310 Jesus LOVES chandeliers. He wants the best of the best.
Awesome and enlightening discussion. My wife and I are totally into understanding the tree and it’s implications with temple and the feminine. Folks at church seem to care little about the deep import and implications that exists here. Not sure why but it appears the Saints are good with the usual old Sunday School answers and can’t seem to understand we have a gem that has more to teach than first meets the eye.
As long as we don’t get caught up with it. What is important is the basics faith ,repentance, baptism.gift of the Holy Ghost. They are the essentials. Other learning is great as long as we don’t get caught up with it , and neglect the important things.
It’s strange that these topics aren’t talked about more in the church
We really should I mean as long as it doesn’t trigger that 9th sense of discernment then totally
Seems not enough of us want to move beyond the Primary questions and answers. It makes me want to move, but the next ward will be the same.
It's almost as if it's its a repeat of Lehis day in Jerusalem..... just sayin. If it were to ever start to become more published I wonder what the church's responce would be to the modern day "visionary men."
The church is for milk. You want meat, you need to get it on your own time. Most people will not get it. Nor can they. One has to be ready to receive it.
Why do you think the Prophet called us lazy learners? The Lord doesn’t want passive followers, we’re to be learning this line upon line, precept upon precept. Many members don’t even understand the doctrine in the scriptures and yet, everyone wants to jump up to this. This is beautiful and amazing, but clicks more when we have the basics down. Especially when we make sure our children and ward siblings are learning the milk too. Ministering makes this connect as well.
You four guys should do this every week! It’s so rewarding to have this stuff on constantly to fill my mind with this rich conversation.
I never quite understood and, have always wondered, how Nephi saw the tree then Mary and concluded that it was the love of God. Thank you!!! My faith journey and knowledge of truth have been expanded today! Please bring these guys back again and keep up the great work!
Also, why don't more members enjoy this stuff?? I've tried talking to so many members, and non members, and they all glaze over, and don't seem to give a shit about any of it. Anyone else experience this?
Yes all the time, bro there will be a time when you have answers & people will ask how
My father taught Christian History, World Religions, LDS Church History (the real stuff), Doctrine & Covenants, Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith Writings for 40 years at the LDS Institute of Religion at Univerisity of Utah. I have heard about and learned and dissected this stuff since I was 12 years old.
I have attended Elders Quorums in Salt Lake City, Provo, Sacramento, Los Angeles, Huntington Beach and San Diego. Exactly zero elders cared about any comments I offered to clarify false or misleading statements made by the teacher. Worse, zero LDS women ever cared about these topics.
But, to me, these discussions are the Elixir of the Mysteries of God. I am disappointed that the children of God don't care about His Mysteries and Kingdom.
A lot of people just want to learn and teach nephis vision like they always have. There are so many levels to the BOM and some people just prefer to nibble 😊
@@bankaibum82I hope someday that I can pass on what little knowledge I have accumulated to my children. I have one in the oven and pray he will be as spiritually hungry for answers as I am.
@@kevinparkin3322This kind of paints a grim picture of our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, and I don't know how to help fix the problem. I wish more of us craved the fire of the spirit of God, rather than the smoke from the embers.
Getting us to think way outside the box is enlightening. Keep it coming. I love the in-depth information and knowledge being shared. Dave and Mike are amazing to listen to. More please. 😊❤️🙏🇦🇺
Y’all deserve every single one of my dollars per month for this content
🤯🤯🤯 David Butler and Mike Day have been such an answer to prayers . Also, I was perplexed months back when I was in the celestial room at the Newly renovated St George temple. I didn’t understand why Christ was replaced with trees and asked Heavenly Father the significance. Looks like he answered my prayer again through David and Mike. 😭 I am eternally grateful to these giants.
How was Christ replaced by trees in the St. George temple? Was this a painting or something in the decor? Or do you mean something else entirely?
So good! While listening I couldn’t help thinking about how in Lehi’s group the women became strong like the men in
1 Nephi 17:2 “And so great were the blessings of the Lord upon us, that while we did live upon raw meat in the wilderness, our women did give plenty of suck for their children, and were strong, yea, even like unto the men; and they began to bear their journeyings without murmurings.”
And then how Nephi’s “brethren” complained against him saying in
1 Nephi 17:20 “…and our women have toiled, being big with child; and they have borne children in the wilderness and suffered all things, save it were death; and it would have been better that they had died before they came out of Jerusalem than to have suffered these afflictions.”
They really showed the depths of their apostasy, wishing that their “strong women” had died in Jerusalem! As a woman, I have always been astounded at this wickedness wishing their wives were dead and had not had their children. But with this understanding, it is so much deeper. They wanted to frustrate the very order of God while saying they are righteous!
I’m so flippin excited for this topic!!!!!!
I was wondering what happened to the rest of the six hours you taped. I'm glad to see you guys making this content. Thank you
It is the previous two episode with David Butler. You should check them out!
Amazing connections and insights! This 3 part series is my first intro to your channel. Thanks for putting in this effort to expound the scriptures!
So,so sweet, brethren, so wonderful, reaches sweet to the souls, eyes to see and ears to hear, truly hungry and thirsty after righteousness, is Jesus Christ and His doctrines, love this, thanks again for sharing, brethren, truly amazing to my understanding, love and prayers
I always watch the full episodes! Keep up the great work!
@tinysafari1851
8 minutes ago
@Thehaystack799 It's over 2-hours in length runtime and just dropped 57 minutes ago, do the math!
@@tinysafari1851 I am still watching and have watched all their past videos in full. To use your own verbiage “do the math.” Hope you have a better day.
I discovered that Saint Catherine's book, "The Dialog," is literally a commentary on Lehi's dream. I was shocked! She's communicating with God the Father in it, and he tells her that he's the man standing under the tree of life beckoning his children to come. There's so many aspects of what she wrote that fits this hypothesis really well.
I love this in the context of 2nd Nephi 2 verse 15 when he describes the two trees in the garden - “the one being sweet and the other bitter.”
In the center of the room above the flowers, there is a large chandelier which could be seen as the roots of the tree of light. The interesting thing about trees is theey look similar under the ground as above. Just what i thought about when you were talking about this. Thanks for the insights ❤
Excellent insight, I’m going to remember that.
I see a lot of comments suggesting the organization of the church or the culture of the church somehow discourages people to dig deep into these things; or that it is a shortfalling of the church to not address such topics more in depth or with cruious eyes to see more...
I don't think that's really fair.
Our Sundsay services is designed around ordinance, where there are symbols to explore. We have discussions, teachings, and speakers and mainly they are trying to feed the congregation the milk and the honey; but the congregation is not ready as a whole for these kinds of things. Imagine a evangelical visitor and all the shock and awe they are dealing with just being confronted with more scripture, and now we start hoisting deep temple topics on them that are basically stripped away from the bible almost entirely in any discernible way, and then we get coded messages about thoes precious things in the book of mormon...they would run for the hills.
These things do need to be explored; but we explore them when we are ready. We receive them when we are ready. And only when we seek them out. This is a clear teaching in the gospel.
When have you ever heard a prophet or an apostle tell you not to try and learn more from the temple, or from reading the book of mormon? Do we think these things are lost on them? I do not.
So I am so excited that we can talk about these things, and that there are people who want and are feasting on the word. It's amazing -- You are all amazing! And I would add to that, the rest of us are also amazing, they just aren't ready yet. They are holding to the rod which will lead them to the tree. They can see the tree for what it is when they are ready.
This video was a revelation to me. I had been reading about Nephi's vision early in the afternoon yesterday, and was drawing some of the same conclusions which had my head spinning. So to have this provide more clarity and concept wasfabulous and very encouraging. Thank you!
To add, the gospel of Jesus Christ in most basic form is faith and repentance with the baptism and Holy Ghost ordinance. That is aaronic level teaching. This kind of temple talk is Melchizedek level talk. It does seem appropriate to keep Sunday meetings/lessons on the basics and explore more through our temple worship.
@@LightsomeLivingthe Apostles have definitely been encouraging us to spend more time in the temple.
In 2 Nephi 32:4 Nephi, who saw us, is frustrated that we aren't asking for more.
By the way, in apocrypha the woman who anointed Jesus was Mary Magdalene. And when you know it was her, it even makes more sense why her role was so crucial in the context of early days of Christianity.
Have you listened to episode 45 of Mike's Talking Scripture podcast? Mary Magdalene is a rock!
Glad to be one of the 8. It's very fascinating. Thanks for the discussion!
BEEN WAITING FOR THIS!!!!
The palm tree is one of the symbols of Ashera (along with the almond tree, the olive tree and others)
I can’t think of a modern temple that doesn’t have a representation of the palm branch or tree in the celestial room. King Solomon had open flowers and palms as a temple decoration in the ancient temple. Very interesting!
A side thought, do the palm branches at Christ’s triumphal entry also double represent the ashera? Interesting to consider.
The donkey walked on the palm branches, so I hope not.
All celestial rooms in the modern temples have a wooden table with feet like roots with a large vase of flowers sitting on it. Almost always it is sitting below the main chandelier in the middle of the room.
@deborahrhodes4892 but Jesus washed the apostles' feet soon after, so that COULD be a symbol of service, cushioning the donkeys path.
This was just fascinating information to listen to! I have read the passages of scriptures shared here many times, and have always felt that there is deeper meaning to them, and this provides the meaning that I have been looking for! I love how they were all tied together. Thank you for providing this wonderful content!!
Another one of my favorites in your video series. I have fallen in love with the content and knowledge coming from Mike Day and Dave Butler and yearn to learn more. These guys are incredible and many things they have found in their studies were things I’d come to believe on my own through whispering of the spirit and hearing it laid out so clearly scriptorally (is that a word?). was thrilling to the soul! In the mouth of 2 or 3 is wonderful! So beautiful.
Love this channel!
Please have these guys back and back again!!! I'm going to have to watch part 1 and part 2 again to bring to get this!!! But I love it.
I just have to say thank you to David and Mike for sharing all their language learning. I don't want to learn Hebrew or ancient Greek but I love listening to all these insightthank you! Different translations so thank you!
I could listen to David Butler all day long!!! Sooooooo interesting!!
So many things clicked for me while watching this. Thank you all for sharing. Mind blowing!
Look at the light! It's like a symbol of the Tree of life! If you follow the lights through the endowment they grow in Brightness and connect to the chapel! That part is so cool to me. It's brought the temple to my meetings on Sunday.
Last comment. Maybe. Is it possible, that the reason the tree of life vision takes place in a field, is that its an allegory for the temple no longer containing the important doctrines, hence the reason the spacious building is kind of floating, like it's just the shell of what it used to be.
I like that!
It has no foundation. What did Jesus say was the foundation of his church? Apostles and prophets. And he, the cornerstone. Revelation. The WORD.
As they taught, I saw the Jewish temple as the G&SB because they have no Chief Cornerstone with which to build the firm foundation.
The field represents the world, or the Ulam of the temple. Dave has a whole chapter about it in his new book.
Before actually watching this video, I finished up David's second book last week, and I was deep in thought. What to make of the changes from the first temple to the second and so on. Maybe some of the changes were necessary, maybe not all of the previous practices were aligned with God. For example, it's believed that the israelites used to practice child sacrifice, and then there is the whole possible sacred conception ordinance between the high priest and the virgin/prophetess. If we believe that we are the true church here on the earth, maybe everything has been leading up to this moment. There's still truth to be found within the first temple rituals such as a mother in heaven, and theosis, and the receiving of greater light and knowledge and such, just as there are truths to be found amongst other religions today. Yet we believe we have the whole picture. Maybe not. I definitely know for myself, our temple practices are, besides my relationship with Christ, the main reason I stay in the church. Idk. I'm rambling. Maybe nothing was wrong with the first temple practices. Maybe our church will go through the same division, experiencing a neo-deuteronomical reform (I hope not)
I tend to agree with your last two statements.
No. If you think the church now is going to go through some sort of neo-deuteronmical reform, you haven't paid attention. It's in the book of Mormon and doctrine and covenants that this is the last dispensation. A sifting, yes, but as long as you stay with the main body and the prophets, you will not be deceived. That is one thing that bothers me in this video. Some people may believe the church can "fall" again and follow some modern (false) "Lehi" into the wilderness 👎🏼👎🏼
Believing you have the whole picture is a dead giveaway that you don't. We can only be exalted as fast as we gain knowledge, hence Nephi's frustration expressed in 2 Nephi 32:4.
Chandelier seems to be the most consistently obvious representation of a holy, majestic, fantastic tree…whose fruit drapes down toward the newly emitted celestial beings in the form of “white lights”
I love all of this, but are we suggesting that God was angry that the Jews stopped worshipping the divine mother? Because that’s obviously incorrect. The prophets today make that clear. Margaret Barker is wrong on that point (Dan Peterson also disagrees with her on that).
The Tree of Life has multiple interpretations (one of which is the divine mother), but first and foremost it represents Christ. The Book of Mormon makes clear that the main thing the Jews had lost was the truth that Jehovah would come down and be born of a woman as a child and die. That’s the main thing Nephi is being taught there.
I think all the symbolism is spot on and Dave is incredible.
I think the symbolism goes another level deeper. Who does Mary symbolize? Is the tree of life really just Mary or does it go deeper? I think it does. So we see three births and three mothers in the vision. The first mother and birth is the tree and the fruit, the second is Mary and Jesus, the THIRD is after the angel asks Nephi to behold the condescension of God and Nephi sees Jesus being baptized, that is the third birth, but where is the mother? Well, there is no voice from heaven in this version, but there is a DOVE. The dove was a well-known symbol of the queen of heaven, the divine mother. That's where we see another form of Asherah and the meaning of the tree is further reinforced.
Alma 42:24 says "For behold, justice exerciseth all HIS demands, and also mercy claimeth all which is HER own;" and what does verse 23 say? "...mercy claimeth the penitent, and mercy cometh because of the atonement;" So mercy or Asherah claimeth all her own because of the atonement of her son; the fruit of the tree, born into mortality of Mary as the son of the Father.
The dove is a well-known symbol of the Holy Ghost.
@@gemelindacjp7976who is male, we know from 2 Nephi 11. But I am certain that Heavenly Mother was watching.
If a tree is a symbol of Heavenly Mother, consider who was with Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane, and who held him (the cross was a tree) even when the Father had to withdraw His presence.
The nails pierced the cross too.
I love Dave Butler and his perspective. Mike Day is a great man. I used to be in Mike's ward. I always enjoyed his comments in Sunday school.
1:27:02 When Mike Day started singing "Ashirah..." from Prince of Egypt I perked up. It has stuck with me for 24 hours now. I pulled up the clip on RUclips with the translation. It is so powerful. I never knew why I was overwhelmed with emotion and instantly started crying when I heard it sung but this explains so much. ♥
Temple workers are trained that it is the Spirit that teaches truth, especially in the temple. It's good to have questions and then seek revelatory answers in the temple. We are also taught that everything in the temple is symbolic, from the temperature to the decor to the light.
Got my copy of the new book today. Somehow made me feel as if Dave came to visit! Can't wait for the conversation to begin.
The added videos are great, but I have to say that it's videos like this that really help to understand a lot about the book, like why the first section starts with the title Ulam.
While reading Chapter 1, one reference made me wonder why some greeters at the desk of the Temple don't occasionally quip, "Welcome to the strait and narrow gate."
beautiful stuff!!! open my mind and give me light, thanks so much.
What an amazing time to live in this earth! To have the technology available that we can listen to shows like this. I love the way the gospel is flooding the earth.
Just had to say thank you! This episode is so great! And I LOVE Bruce Porter TOO! I actually said wahoo when you mentioned his name! 😁
If all four of you had a show with Bruce & the guy from Cwic media.
You all have your own unique & different topics about the gospel in such a way that no matter who I watch, I’m always learning something new! It’s amazing how much I never knew I didn’t know! I could sit and soak up all of your videos.. I have never felt closer to the Savior these days and these topics are so wonderful. Thanks and keep it up.
❤
I have been following along with my scriptures. This series has been amazing!!
1:18:20 (7 women hold to one man) I had supposed that Tree, Woman(Virgin) represented the Lord’s true Church/family in each dispensation. The one man being Christ, and that He is not physically present for all 7 dispensations. Zechariah 4, where he is being shown 7 lamps which “go to and fro” I consider to be the 7 Dispensation heads and all those prophets of their dispensations, “going down” like Peter James and John in the temple presentation. And two of the lamps or candlesticks are the two witnesses which have Olive Trees on the side of their lamps, this to me illustrated Peter and Joseph Smith Jr, who both held all the keys of the priesthood at one time, both witnessed the resurrected Christ, one from Judah, the other a pure Ephriamite, both sealed their testimonies with their blood, in the streets or path of peace, which was spiritually Sodom (Rome) and Egypt (US) one’s death led to the great apostasy, the other’s death led to the close of the great apostasy and last dispensation of the fullness of time, they are bookends. One from the Bible record of Judah, the other of the record of Manasseh. Yes I am sure we will have two more witnesses that may fulfill this more literally in the coming years and perhaps the Tav of eclipses may indicate this sealing event and gospel being taken from the gentiles and going to the Jews, but there is much revealed in the temple, and temple texts which we are given not to be fun feel good stories.
Mary and her story it seem Jesus used this to illustrate the Restoration, the Virgin church, criticized for “looking” as though she broke covenant, looking tainted, but truly is pure and virgin, just like the Restored church is criticized, called a tainted gospel. But the original church/virgin sold its virtues for the intoxication of the world, for the appeal of the world and became a harlot.
That’s the fun thing about symbols and symbolic language: many potential layers, and many potential meanings! I’m fairly certain Symbol is God’s preferred language, and there’s no wonder that “squishy” (as Mike calls it) Hebrew is the “original” (as far as we know) language of scripture 😊
Am an Aniishinaabe from North Dakota and have recently found all this very interesting! Keep up the good work.
Watched them all and just love it! As a gospel doctrine teacher I have to hold back.
Please notice who is standing in the Celestial Room when you enter in ❤ Joseph Smith could not have known that and it can’t be an accident!
Hmmmmm interesting!
About why don't we have more... actually, I was just pondering a lot and prayer about why don't we know more about Heavenly Mother. I am thunderstruck every time we gloss of the almost complete lack of Heavenly Mother. If knowing the nature and character of God is the first principle of the gospel, we have a huge gaping hole at step one. For me, this video was an answer to prayer as I started to entertain the idea that I don't have answers about Heavenly Mother because I wasn't ready for them, and started to try and change.
However, after listening, I'm no longer surprised we're missing parts of the gospel, particularly around Heavenly Mother.
First, it's clear that a lot of people don't want it: they protest the idea of a more central role of Heavenly Mother or a matriarchal order.
Two, a lot of people are held back by the great and spacious building; in a sense, much of the Christian world is in that great and spacious building: they have the commandments, they have Christ, what they lack is the tree of life precisely because they would ridicule the very idea. And are we brave enough as a church to publicly embrace the teachings of Heavenly Mother, despite the ridicule of "traditional" Christianity?
Third, there are plenty of people who are just complacent. Even those curious about Heavenly Mother may casually ask for sign... but are they really knocking and asking with a heart open enough to receive the tree of life if it does not actually conform to their preconceived notions?
Also, with the waters of Mara, the tree turns the poison death water to life giving, and also Christ dies on a tree, the cross (tree) turns death into life.
If anyone was gonna develope a Nephite Workout it'd be you guys. And I would 100% follow it. I want to figure out something like that. Like "3 sets of 10 Plate swings" but its just a 60lbs kettle bell. Things like that. Anyway this BLEW ME AWAY and my heart and mind are on fire! Thanks for making this stuff. This channel goes to show that it's true what was once said about the Book of Mormon: its a mansion with rooms yet to be discovered. Or as I see it: a buffet that keeps getting bigger.
Dave mentions a free resource for learning these languages, a website that where some one teaches you these lessons at 1:31:54. He mentions that he will send you a link please share that link if it is appropriate. I would love to study these things as well.
I came to the comments specifically looking for the link also.
I’ve been trying to learn Hebrew myself for the last week and perked up when I heard this as this is something I’ve sheets wanted to do.
Love Mike Day and Dave Butler…Please have them on for more of this. I crave it.
me too. I know I am late to the game. But looking for that website as well
Love this episode!! My teenage daughter loved it too!
Brother Day put the Hebrew study course in the show notes please. I have used Jeff Benners Biblical Hebrew course but it gets pretty heady fairly quick. Thanks in advance
Regarding Prokinesis here is one more you can add to the list Matthew 17:5-7. Excellent episode, thanks so very much for sharing.
First, I think the church as a whole receives the light and knowledge it is ready for as a whole. However, as individuals, we have the prerogative to seek for more light and knowledge for ourselves. HOWEVER, you better make sure that you aren't being deceived in the process! The line between truth and trickery is a sharp edged sword.
Re: Isaiah 6:8-10. Thank you. I have been saying this for years. At Isaiah's theophany and call he was ordered to baffle the people. If he spoke plainly he would have been killed outright like the other prophets and his prophecies destroyed. But by couching his prophecies in beautiful poetry and symbolism they stand today and we can begin learning from them. GREAT are the words of Isaiah.
Excellent content guys keep it coming!
how can you have already listened to a 2-hour video when it was just posted 20 minutes ago?
@@tinysafari1851 still watching just enjoying the continued stuff with Dave and Mike
@@craigbates27 It's a great podcast I have been looking forward to this for the past couple of weeks. Keep watching.
Just binged all three of these episodes before and in between General Conference. I see the call to the Temple and making/keeping Covenants on a new level. How sweet is the love of God!
When you were talking about the priestly women and one day maybe we will get more on that…. Do we not have ordained and set apart women right now to initiate women in the Temple? I am now going to call them Priestly Women 😊
Well done all of you. As our family says; we are ready for and looking for meat. This is 🥩 🥩 🥩 and WE LOVE IT!!!
Thank you Paul Brothers, Brother Butler and Brother Day. My heart was burning!
Took me three days to work through this episode. It was amazing. I’ve long thought in the ongoing restoration, women’s roles will be restored….i see it unfolding. Also love all the symbolism of the Tree of Life. I’ve wondered for years about the symbolism of the trees in the garden of Eden in connection with the Tree in Lehi’s dream.
Anyhow, this comment is too long. Just want to say thanks for this. I’m loving it so much.
Totally agree, love this!
I think we have seen a lot of that come to pass in the Temple. We have Priestly Women who are called, set apart to initiate. You have to really engage in the greatness of what the Temple offers to learn all the precious things. I am still learning things that I had no idea about and I’m a grandma :) we don’t ask enough questions in the Temple. I’m asking now! If we didn’t have the Temple ordinances and covenants, why would we come? But we DO, and we need to remember how blessed we are to learn all these beautiful things. This is a living church. How cool is that?!
I wouldn't hang my testimony on that. Be discerning. Bro. Butler is intelligent but he is not a prophet and some things he says is conflicting with the JST. Pray for discernment while watching!!
@@tiffanyseavy565conflicts? Please explain.
Joseph was very fluid in the way he read scripture. The words don't matter nearly as much as what the Spirit teaches you.
@@pythonista466 bro Butler says Jesus said you WILL be perfect, where as JST makes it a commandment, not a future consequence.
Lots of interesting hypotheses to research this year. Last month a phrase stood out to me and I wrote it on my mirror, "“I am desirous also that I might see, and hear, and know.". I think I'm starting to.
I love these guys !
Yes! [in the intro] Could the Matriarchal order + the Patriarchal order = the order of the Son of God, also known as the Holy Order of Matrimony? Excited to listen to this.
Wow!
Woah…that’s…dang. Here, let me get the door for you haha
@@haydenschaap 😂😂
Absolutely. The hierarchical priesthood organization that administers the Church is the tiniest part of the Priesthood. The temple endowment and sealing are the oath and covenant mentioned in D&C 84. Women are equal partners in every sealing.
So good! If you liked this, and are looking for more content on heavenly mother try out this podcast.
In Her Image: Finding Heavenly Mother in Scripture.
Thank you!!
Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Thank you Mike! You decribed perfectly how an intimate relationship of a man and a woman should be sweet with the presence of the divine. Anytime you make it about the mortal appetite it becomes bitter. Layman and Lemuel are living the letter of the law and not listening to the spirit. They see with mortal eyes and not spiritual ones. To grasp all that the Father has for us we must see with our spiritual eyes and take hold of the Rod (Christ). We must see beyond our natural eyes and affections to obtain the pure love of God and to partake of the tree.
Invite Avraham Gileadi on with David Butler to discuss the writing of Isaiah.
While parts of their theories are incompatible, much is complimentary. They both have so much to offer.
I think Gileadi’s interpretation of Isaiah has some issues. I can’t trust him. He is so enthralled with the Davidic servant that he sees him in Isaiah even where he doesn’t exist.
@@DoctrineofChrist248
Exactly the point that they don't entirely agree, the conversation could open more eyes to understand.
@@knelson3326
I agree that no one has all the knowledge and understanding or Jesus wouldn't need to confirm that a servant will come to prepare the way for the Second Coming.
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
Matt 17:11
I believe that examination of these differing opinions will help many escape from the false precepts of men.
@@knelson3326 what parts? Im curious.
I think perhaps there still more to understand in the Book of Mormon that we’ve yet to unfold and that may be why we haven’t received the 116 pages and the sealed portions of the Book of Mormon yet. Once we’ve gone through and peeled back all the layers of what we got then we’ll get the rest. And I think we may need to go more interfaith to improve our understanding of the Book of Mormon. There are many elements of it that could be understood differently by a Jewish rabbi who studies Kabbalah or an Ethiopian orthodox Christian priest or someone who could offer a different perspective that we as members don’t see. Idk just thinking here lol
Lehi did not wait for the institutional church of his day to answer his questions, nor did Nephi or Joseph Smith. President Nelson has been pleading with us for a decade to spend more time and effort learning to receive personal revelation.
I don't think there's anything stopping us but ourselves.
I watched all the episodes previously, on my 2nd time through 👍🏻. Great stuff and have shared with several members.
I love your channel!! I would also love to get the name of that language class you were talking about, if it's something you can share...
Keep up the good work guys!
I’m excited to study the scriptures through this new lens! So many insights coming to mind already - like when Christ curses the fig tree 😱 Totally geeking out; I might explode 🤯
Amazing! ❤ Thank you I learned so much!
I can’t get enough!!!!!! 🎉🎉🎉
At 1:46:38 you guys ask why Laman and Lemuel are following along with Lehi? 1st Nephi 2 20-24 gives that answer. Specifically 24 says
And if it so be that they rebel against me, they shall be a scourge unto thy seed, to stir them up in the ways of remembrance.
So they came along to stir up the Nephites to remember the Lord.
It was bugging me SO badly... I knew Mike's name from somewhere... Talking Scriptures ❤ I want to geek out on this." LOVE it!!!
Love your insights so much! Thank you!❤️☀️
Love all of this, thank you! I am one of your "8" apparently because I've watched all of these videos. I've been reading David's book Plain and Precious and it is amazing as well. I cannot wait until I am able to read the second one. The scriptures have become so much more full and delicious to me the last few years. Why can't we talk more about this at church too?!
@@casadelswain434 I'm not sure what your comment means...? Can you explain your statement? My comment doesn't have anything to do with the seven women laying hold on one man. I was referencing a joke the Paul brothers made, about only 8 people watching all of these episodes with Dave Butler.
@@ashleysb3 I am not sure why I posted it here, I thought I was on the main page 🫣 I’m afraid I’m getting to be old like my momma with technology.
First off! I loved these last 3 videos! I’ve learned so much, even if some of this is “just Dave’s theory” as he said, haha! Now a few things I wanted to mention
1st - I noticed this year during my study of CFM that Nephi called the iron rod the “word of God” and this was the first time I didn’t think “words of the prophets, scriptures, and revelation”, but “that means Jesus”. I hadn’t seen this video yet, but it seemed significant to me at the time, now I feel like I understand so much more now on the topic!
2nd - Thought I’d point out that the Las Vegas temple does not have a plant in the center of the Celestial room. However, the theme of the LV temple is the palm tree, and you can see its design in there as well as all throughout the temple.
Also, it’s my favorite temple for many reasons (not to mention my dad was a temple sealer there until he passed away a year from tomorrow on The morning of General Conference). One thing in particular is it has one unique feature compared to any other temple I’ve seen. It has an outside atrium only accessible by entering the temple, and is surrounded by the building. There is one tree (maybe 2?) and a fountain in that space, and I always loved that space. You don’t need a recommend to access that space, so I grew up going there many times as a kid.
This is so fantastic
Had a really cool moment and wanted to share thanks to these conversations! I bought Dave’s books and just finished “Plain and Precious things”. Just starting “The Goodness and the Mysteries”.
Anyway, was reading in Mosiah 18 this week when I noticed some heavy parallels with Lehi’s vision and experience. Just saying-there is a fountain of water, trees, and if you jump back to Mosiah 11, where we first start learning about King Noah, he puts new priests in charge, essentially takes over the temple-worship by doing so, and they build many “elegant and spacious” buildings. Alma’s story is basically a successful “what if” of Lehi’s own story, riddled with symbols straight from his vision
Also just consider what Abinadai teaches to the priests of Noah. Examples of ancient prophets providing signs and types of the coming of Christ. Why? Because they were trying to lead the people astray and deny Christ, or deny the coming of Christ. Anyway, don’t want to write too much. This is already getting long lol
The issue with the divine mother - which is obvious and true - is when people learn about it they either reject it or immediately begin to get off track and worship what they do not know. we need direction on it, which we don’t have.
This is a great point, and possibly the reason so many members seem uninterested in learning, whether it's church history or ancient theological practices. Too many members want to only drink milk or as another commenter said, they just want to nibble, and they aren't getting anything of substance.
I agree.
I say, more talking of the Mother, and perhaps revealed direction will come! It’s tricky to do much more than speculate, since there’s no overt language that points to Her in scripture, or to the Father much, either (it’s mostly all YHWH/Jesus, but Jesus is the express image of the Father, right? So it’s easy to apply the same attributes found in scripture to both Father and Son. I suspect we can do at least some of the same with the Mother).
There are also women in scripture we could potentially use to get an idea of what the Mother may be like, as the named women are usually righteous/important in some way (worthy of a name): Eve, Sarah, Rachel, Rebecca, Miriam, Deborah the prophetess, Jael the warrior, Ruth the convert, Esther the saving queen, Hannah the righteous mother, Abish is like one of the few named Book of Mormon women, and then of course Anna the prophetess, Mary, Mary, and other New Testament women who don’t get much more than a named-mention, and the scores of unnamed women throughout scripture. Emma is the only woman with a revelation recorded in Doctrine and Covenants (and I just realized she was actually ordained/set apart as the “elect lady” (Relief Society President) to “expound scripture and exhort the church” (D&C 25:7), which I’ve never heard discussed in church before. Yesterday was literally the first time I even noticed that bit! I’ve only ever heard anyone focus on the “support your husband” and “create a hymnal” bits.)
ANYway, many different women from whom we can identify many different qualities, some of which may apply to the Mother 😊 At least that’s the way I’m looking at it for the moment.
I do also like all this tree imagery, as I am totally a tree-hugger!
@@gingersnaps215
Along with all you said… paying attention to how Christ treated women, and how he included them in his ministry, which was a thing that made him stand out even in his day
In the true gospel women are always included as full partners, even in the Holy of Holies, a thing that is not true for both the Masonic temples and the ancient Hebrew temples
In the true kingdom of Heavenly Father, all are included as full Sons and Daughters, none are left out
Just a thought…
@@brendamartin3444 yes, Christ and Joseph Smith would both have to be considered feminists, meaning that they saw women as humans and therefore worthy of involvement at all levels, and a voice. The NT does still have the male apostles disbelieving that the women saw what they saw at the tomb, probably in part because they were women in the first century and were seen as almost next to nothing in society.
We don’t really know what the First Tenple religion looked like, but Psalms do have mentions of women in the temple in some capacity. We know in the Sexond Temple period (Herod’a temple/the temple of Jesus’ day) they had their courtyard and I believe weren’t to go past that space, though I also think they were the weavers for the temple veil.From my limited research and understanding, I believe only the High Prisest was allowed into the Holy of Holies, once a year, on Yom Kippur/the Day of Atonment, and beyond that no one else, male or female, was allowed in. But there is much research still being done on the differences between First and Second Temple periods!
I dunno why Masonic temples were brought up, as I never talked about those, and as far as I know Masonry has always been an exclusively male organization. However, the restored temples of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have always had women involved and welcome at every level, every room, assuming that they were worthy of entry (same requirements for the men), from the beginning, and through the years when male leaders were trying to figure out just how/if women have/use the priesthood.
Women, as a sex, have never been barred from the temple in the Lord’s restored church. There have merely been questions about whether or not we have access to priesthood (we do, we’re just not ordained or authorized to do immersive baptisms, confirmations, or ordinations; women set apart as temple workers have always been authorized to perform temple ordinances in the temple - priesthood ordinances - and women, and baptized, children, have access to priesthood power in relation to their callings, and families).
So yes, I agree that women haven’t been and are not excluded from the Holy of Holies in the true kingdom of Heavenly Father 😊
Holy! I ❤❤❤❤❤❤ this so much!!!
This portion at an hour in reminds me of the film Lady in the Water. It is a Chinese parable with a guild of 7 women. Have you heard of it?
Interesting! Only the guild of those 7 gifted women could return the “lady” safely to her home.
What is this website that Mike is referring to at 1:32:02? I want to learn Hebrew as well!
Brings new thoughts as to where joseph smith saw Father and Christ. In a grove of trees. It's like mother was there too, in a quiet way. Makes it seem as if that place was used as a holy of holies, where words/speech conversation between men and God's took place. Very interesting.
With his glasses on, Dave looks like Benjamin Franklin. Try to unsee that.
😂😂
Thank you.
Can you please give me some advice on how I can help my Jehovah's Witness husband understand and soften his heart toward the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints? I really truly have been searching for answers for so long.
If he reads books, I would recommend Margaret Barkers book Temple Theology, and possibly a Bart Ehrman book. A lot of fellow Christians believe in Sola Scriptura or scriptures alone, that that's all you need. Margaret Barker puts the apocryphal books to fantastic use, and Bart Ehrman does a good job of dismantling the idea of infallibility of the Bible. But I'm not a doctor so don't listen to me. I wish you luck in your endeavors, and that you and your husband can find peace, whether inside or outside the church. Unity in Christ.
A lot of it goes back to the garden of Eden and what the role of the Savior is. Jesus Christ wasn't a plan B.
@annaflynn5927 remember that God works in mysterious ways. Your husband's heart will be softened more by the Spirit than by any words or scripture you share.
Do what you can to invite the Holy Spirit into your home, and He'll find his way into your husband's heart on His own.
I do not have an interfaith marriage, but I am learning to seek and hear God’s direction a little better than I used to.
Try this: ask God what are the top three things you want me to do today. Write down what comes to mind then do your level best to do it.
One time, I was directed to clear some space in the attic.( not on my regular to do list or radar). One box was a bit too heavy for me so I asked my husband for some help after work. We ended up having a long, good conversation at the top of those attic stairs. That conversation ended up helping reach some goals and prepare us to move which also wasn’t on our radar.
I’ll pray that God guides you, comforts you and that you’ll be able to hear him. Hugs from across the internet.
This also fits in well with the apocryphal book The Book of The Beloved Companion!
David & Mike have had some great sessions. This subject has a really tough time coming together.
You guys are awesome. When will the docuseries come out and how do we have access?
Keep
Going !
I love the way the Hebraisms tie in. Thank you for sharing this.
Talking about your hair loss? In my case, I don't know if I have a receding hairline or an advancing forehead.