🧐 How to win debates with a Christian?
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- Опубликовано: 14 май 2023
- TV show by History Channel, the Vikings, season 1 - episode 3.
In this video, Ragnar Lothbrok lets his curiosity run wild. He asks Athelstan about the administrative structure of England, about Jesus Christ and much much more! It's very interesting and stunningly beautiful.
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I personally loved how throughout this entire show Ragnar never had an animosity towards other religions or cultures. He had a genuine, curiosity and ambition.
It's all the same
Except all the times when he used christian beliefs and sense of morality against them.
A shame that curiosity and morality do not necessarily go hand-in-hand.
@@cernunnosch427He's a viking. Piracy is his livelihood. It's just good business to him.
How can you be ambitious towards a religion or a culture? They are not physical things that can be conquered, they are belief systems and shared lifestyles. You can be ambitious in the name of culture or religion, but not toward them.
Drunk Ragnar & Athelstan always had great conversations lol
Drunk Ragnar and Egbert too
@@robinvisschers7618 oh God yes!!
Drunk king Ragnar and drunk king Ecbert
Athelstan absolutely destroyed the Vikings and kicked them out of England in reality
Bro did not correctly describe a Christian, giving away riches don’t save your soul that’s what the sacrifice was for.
You misunderstood his reaction at the end. Aethelstan doesn't find himself out of arguments - he just understands completely the size of the abyss between their two cultures.
This is it! Idk what the video description is going on about.
@@c3ramicsabout ignorance
Can you explain what are souls?
@@Jake-zk3eba soul is what makes something alive
@@yungzooma3650that would be a beating heart bud. Good try tho.
Spoiler alert, the Christians win, and the Vikings end up going on Crusade to the Holy Land for Christ.
Or maybe the Vikings used xtianity as an excuse to raid the holy land… for Christ.😂
@@godwantsplasticthat too
@@godwantsplasticIt was a win-win situation really... Except for when everybody died there...
They converted and became lame.
@@MrLee-cy1pw if you call stopping the muslim invasion of Europe lame. I guess.
Ragnar: what is a soul?
Priest: *Bluescreens
It's don't work so.
That's called poor editing out of context
How to spot a Playstation player 😂
Priest: *wasted*
Any Cristian: "it's their eternal being."
I mean this isn't really a debate, it's two people who are shockingly alike and yet very different discussing their perspective on things.
Yeah it’s a bit silly to say this was an own. Soul is something English folk use a lot but don’t know exactly the definition. Hell even atheists use it.
Curious about life but balance each other in energy
@@jimnoel3025some peoples definition of an “own” is just asking a vague question and the other person not being able to immediately and fully explain the answer
@@jimnoel3025if they can’t give me a one word answer it kinda proves Christian’s don’t have souls no? Even babies know about ‘consciousness.’ Not Christians apparently. My theory is this is because they are unconscious and all a apart of a demonic hive mind whose access to regular logical solo neuropathy has been intentionally shut off by some collective demon overmind thing.
It's too people who are shockingly incorrect spreading misinformation.
If you think that this is “winning” a debate with a Christian, then you have much to learn about debates… and winning.
And christianity..
There is no debate. No religious person has ever come up with good evidence to believe an invisible being created the universe and everything in it. The people that believe are delusional wish thinkers..
And about history, since Vikings later converted en masse and dumped their so called gods and honestly benefited alot from doing that.
A syllogism,
God is all knowing
Jesus doesn’t know the time or day of the ascension
Therefore Jesus isn’t God
THAT’S how u defeat a xtian!
@@ptcrusa at the point of a xtian sword. The bible is demon worship
If the Norse believed in an afterlife, what did they assume went to Valhalla/Hel? Surely they believed in the soul as well, even if they called it something different.
They had a soul-like concept, but it was a bit different from Christianity and many other belief systems. They had this sort of mulit-part soul concept. More specifically, they believed your "soul" was made up of four parts. **Hamr (outer appearance), Hugr (mind), Fylgja (spirit animal of some kind), Hamingja (potential and proclivities of a person).** These four things are all believed to continue on when a person dies.
Here's where it starts to get very different from Christianity. These four aspects of a person don't all go to the same place after death. It's believe that one's Hamingja gets passed down within one's family lineage rather than go to some afterlife. Same with Hamr. The rest really just isn't specified or just hasn't been discovered by modern scholers what they believed. They just believed some part of you went to one of the many afterlifes in Norse Mythology. It isn't even out of the question that your physical body could live on (somehow) after death. E.g. there's some writing that says that your physical body will shapeshift into your Fylgia (spirit animal) and go to Valhalla, or wherever.
It seems like every belief system has some kind of concept of a soul, but the details can vary widely. For example, in Shintoism, your soul can have a sub-soul. It's very weird.
@@Mbrace818 Thanks for that info. I know the first concepts of a soul came from ancient Greece so I assumed the idea had travelled across many cultures already before the life of Ragnar
if someone says the chinese word for patato to you, you wouldnt know what that word means. the word for soul is propably different in norse
@@MadkingstowKeep in mind everything we know about Viking culture is a guess.
Well Christianity was just Paganism reworded to make the forced conversion process easier. Christians give away there money to make the Vatican richer while they horde away all those secrets in the basement
I watched this two days ago. I felt like the best way to explain it to a Viking is, "The part of you that goes to Valhalla"
Ugh. A. No they had "soul" its called hugr. Slightly different but its the part that reincarnates.
B. Norse believed in reincarnation. Valhalla is a very...iffy concept in reality we know little of. The pop culture concept is from hundreds if years after conversion and blatantly influenced by christianity at the time.
We dont really have too much reffering to it before then theres a few spots but nothing that clues in what exactly it is. But it being indo european paganism and every indo european pagan religion we know of decently(vedic hinduism for instance) reincarnation and a state of enlightenment. Its likely just that enlightenment. A fulfillment of ones life.
But we dont really know.
Please stop learning religion from tv shows
This is expecting a christian monk in pre 1100AD too know about valhalla, or not responding by destroying whatever told them of it and immediately defaulting too calling it demonic or satanic
I agree. "The part of you that deserves Valhalla, for being a Good man"
@@crankyeskimo3362 “good men” don’t go to Valhalla, great warriors do.
@@itssomedonkus5700 "good men" don't go to Heaven either.
To be fair he got him with the comeback "we didn't need to protect our monasteries before you came" like damn fair enough
Not even from thieves ? If not, then the only thing that is protecting it from people is fear of being condemn by a god, so it does belong to some imaginary god? Who is greedy, just like ragnar added
@@eee9034It's not about giving it to god it's about the act of relinquishing the wealth from your own life to show devotion to higher ideals
@@isaiahd5396so are you trying to explain how catholic churches becomes becomes so much rich and powerful that they even starts to interfere in politics? The same kind of politics that killed their imaginary shepard jesus , if i can remember correctly
@@eee9034 No I was explaining why there was so much wealth in the monk monasteries
@@isaiahd5396 maybe you are right,
Now it explains how once upon a time an american church pastor offered 4 dollers (2010) per month to my father , if he converts into christianity
Ragnar wasnt lookin to win some debate, he was just curious here
And ffs there is no debate really, its ancient literature, its just that we humans are silly creatures
When non-Christians attempt to write about Christianity, you get this.
Thats literally how it was… now its just donations and Government funding. I don’t think you realize, Religion is the single most profitable business on this planet.
@@fohtheim9864and is that how you explain the biblical stories and why people believe in them? Because it's grifting?
@@fohtheim9864 so you're saying that Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos and Bill Gates r all Christian pastors? Duly noted
@@ollikoskiniemi6221 I think the bible was crafted for Scholars and Philosophers and not the masses. As soon as it was introduced to the masses, the bible was taken literally since modern times, worse off everyone agreed on everything within the bible and question nothing. Everything in this world has been manipulated except religion apparently. Likely story. There are many things that are amazing within the bible. But I think a lot has been changed. I dont think Jesus came here to forgive us of our sins. I think he came here to show us what we really are. That we are all Gods. Which is why he got murdered. You see it even today constantly. People dying after speaking about the power within us. The bible directly contradicts our power and keeps us within line. Be a good boy or girl for God or suffer. Sounds literally like a social credit system just a bit more archaic.
@@lebayhsok9557 tf, I literally said nothing about them. Either way the richest people in the world are not publicized. Just take one look at churches and tell my they aren't rich af and funded. You literally cant. Plus Christianity is a Cult. When it was introduced in places like Spain, back in Early AD, they literally say the Elites brought a cult into the masses and this cult was wide spread and they called it Christianity. It was a actual wording used in a museum I went to in Barcelona, Spain. It started with Elites or rich people and pushed onto the masses. Now its a default mode for everyone. We're raised to obey since birth with schooling and work. now there needs to be control over our spirituality. It has to end.
At best it's just an example of a very drastic cultural difference, not a winning debates argument.
Yea irl a debate like this could last days but for the sake of the show this scene needed to end eventually.
@@jwall1646 only because you can't argue with ignorance.
@@tHEHEAd1138 said both sides of the argument
@@jwall1646Years, decades even
This was definitely culture shock for the christians who had never encountered the Vikings or their religion
I live in an area where we built churches without steeples out of fear of the Vikings seeing them & raiding. Now when the Scandinavians come they bring us Volvo's and IKEA. Weird how people change.
Trade was often the fastest path to peace.
Because the vikings ended up taking the north and the closest thing to viking descendants now are the English. Especially up north.
@@connorsimmonds9698Other than the scandinavians?
Im sure adopting Christianity in place of Valhalla had something to do with it
@@connorsimmonds9698 Scotland mostly in the Orkney islands
The fact that most people get their spiritual, theological and philosophical stances and arguments from fictional shows just about tells you all you need about how we found ourselves in this current mess
Same goes for them getting their stances from fictional books it’s all the same just a different shade
So someone being meaningfully effected by a piece of art is somehow bad?
@@willroth7521 I didn’t say they were having their opinions merely affected by art. I said they were getting their opinions from the art. Repeating them verbatim.
I don't think most (if even many) people get their spiritual, theological, and philosophical stances and arguments from fictional shows. You're just being hysterical and ironically counter-culture.
Spiritual and theological anything and everything is fictional anyhow. All religions are myths.
This is a TV show......
Also they become close friends in the show and the Viking carries a cross and converts lol
Like all Vikings.
Ragnar doesn't convert. Odin himself comes to inform his death.
Also Athelstan ends up believing in both Norse beliefs and Christianity
i think the part that entertained Ragnar the most is that.....why do all the regular people give you all the most valuable things in your society.....what do they get for this? and the answer is always vague. " to save their souls"
and the Vikings themselves have very extreme rituals shown in the show similar to this..... but the answer is similar. Ragnar and Athelstan's conversations always made this show for me. Love them
Reminder that the most Viking thing you can ever do is convert to Christianity
No screw that I'm pagan for life.
IT GLADDENS ME TO KNOW ODIN PREPARES FOR A FEAST
@@340cory *satanist
@@340cory "Pagan" Like you believe in the Marvel Thor? 😂
@@AluminiumT6 do you really not know that thor is a real mythological figure?
He is as real as Moses or Abraham or Jesus.
This dialogue reeks as if it was written by someone who posts Reddit atheism "owning" Christians content.
to be honest vikings dialogue in general has a sense of being written without any particular depth or nuance, or actual wisdom or insight. I think the fact that vikings leans heavily into christianity (I'm fairly sure Ragnar becomes a christian) suggests the writers' intentions were to show both sides of the coin and probably weren't reddit atheists themselves. Rather I think the overall lack of understanding meant that when it came to writing a heathen character like ragnar is initially, they weren't able to conceptualise a counterargument to christianity other than the kind of thing you might find in such a reddit thread.
That said, the very fact that such basic views exist authentically in reality could also be used as an argument for this therefore being realistic dialogue if that's the kind of character they were going for. From that perspective I actually think ragnar's view on christianity here is quite realistic - the issue I have with vikings is that from what I've seen I don't trust the writers go possess enough of their own to know how to contextualise what he says here and show the strengths and flaws in what he says. but maybe they do, i haven't watched the whole show and probably never will.
No you're just very easily offended. Fragile ego
@@darkhobo smartest Internet Atheist, no one here is offended, I said that because literally everything the priest says is what a Reddit Atheist thinks a Christian would say even though it isn't.
@@greas1233 so easily offended. Oh my, sorry to trigger you little one.
The writer of the show is a Christian just so you're aware that you're wrong. And so you know you don't understand your own religion. But that's par for the course with you lot isn't it.
As a devout christian, the only thing that offended me in the story was when the priest had some stupid hallucination of satan and abandoned the friendship he had built with ragnar over years for it with zero hesitation.....
This wasn't a debate though. Ragnar was curious.
This was a flabby badly written and badly acted dialogue, (with way too much misted sunflower oil on the face 😂 and stupid haircuts.)
A glib conversation between 2 people without a common language! 😂
These characters were cardboard puppets for a narcissistic show runner.
When you write from a pov of a character you dislike - you better be mature enough give him an seemingly unassailable argument, and somehow still write a comeback,
Thats what dramatic tension is.
This is just a smug modern lens.
This is children's TV but with a bigger budget.
(Actual scriptwriter here.)
@@Blissblizzard I find it hard to agree because I don't think anyone won anything, myself. No one appears to have made any scathing remarks to demolish the other. They have preconceived notions about things, but they are just talking
@@sunkintree It was intended to be a peak dramatic moment, childishly weakened by adding modern "irony" which muffles dramatics. It's just badly written .... Fiction!
So, as it's high on emotional fulfillment and fantasy gratification, low on history or intellectual challenge and on the complexity and messiness of real life, and, as scripts are economical, if your characters are "just talking", then your writing is flabby and lazy.
Escapism is fentanyl.
I have a massive respect for the bond these two had in spite of being from different worlds. Ragnar may be combative but he was not trying to disrespect the man before him. Didn't treat him like a slave nor a prisoner.
Bro they wanted to sacrafice him 😂
I don't believe that was a look of defeat that was just when he realized he is dealing with a complete savage
I dont think the priest understands what tithing is. It's not to save people's souls. No verse in the Bible ever implies this or says this is the consequence of tithing.
Could be talking of indulgences rather than tithes. Tithes were essentially a 10% tax. Indulgences were anything extra a believer gave to the church in order to reduce or avoid afterlife suffering. So “saving their souls” makes sense there.
He's referring to charity, mate.
The first 2 seasons were the best.
Hell yeah
I feel like seasons 1, 2 and 3 were peak Vikings. 4a is where it started to go downhill a bit, watching Ragnar losing his mind and becoming a drug addict was a fairly painful experience not to mention to shows pace was really sporadic at that time, and after Ragnar died in series 4b the show kind of lost its soul. As much as I like some characters from the later series like Ubba and Alfred it never felt quite the same after season 4b.
No
This script is written by a reddit mod.
Stopped watching the show after a couple of episodes. Couldn't get over the fact that everyone is a HUGE piece of s*** that I hate, except Aethelstan who is a dumb coward, and Ragnar who feels ingenuine and kind of a douche though not evil. This show just put s*x scenes everywhere and hopes to confuse the audience into forgetting how bad the actual writing is. And also constant mocking of christianity.
This is why I fell in love with this series. I feel like the show peaked early, though.
The priest is wrong. Christians give away their riches because they realize they don’t need them, why hold onto an precious piece of metal that you don’t need but others do? Especially when you know that it’s all temporary.
Except their riches go into the Church's coffers and get redistributed in order to: build mega churches, buy yachts, cars, mansions for their Pastors and become donations into hate groups/foundations.
Never the hands of the needy.
Ironically, Ragnar was unintentionally (in his curiousity) scratching the surface of that. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
wrong. theyre catholics. thats what they believe. its a major part of why the protestant reformation happened 700 years later
Nah… the Catholic Church used to sell salvation like it’s a Taylor Swift concert tickets, that’s why churches were full of silver and gold
@@RemnantSoul and that is a very good point of criticism of the church in general. Even true churches for a while didn’t even address the issue. But just know that those churches are not Christ centered, they are human centered focusing on themselves more than the bigger picture. But if you find a true church (which is harder to find visibly because they usually don’t “look” like a church) then you’ll see a big difference in how it all feels.
But in the end that is something that always pushes people away from the church and when the people of that church don’t care then it’s not a proper church.
@@pablorosario5232 yeah Catholic doctrine do be like that. You have to understand though that Catholicism isn’t Christian. It’s a whole different religion, they decided to add different laws and junk all for the sake of gaining more power rather than trying to save people. Like Jesus said, it’s not about how much you give but rather how much it’s worth to you. A rich man can give away $100,000, but the poor man can give away $100 the poor man has given up more than the rich man. Because in the end he knows that’s not going to save him but it can help save others.
How to win a debate with a Christian, written by an atheist/agnostic (whatever). It’s amazing they know how a Christian would react.
That's because Christians start debates (try to convert) with atheist while using "one" source material. Atheists use several. Atheism is about logic. Christianity (religion) is about faith.
There are atheists who have read and studied the Bible better than most Christians. Atheists (sometimes former Christians) interact with Christians. We inow how you react.
@@danijelandroid if you say so. I’d like to know your mental gymnastics in explaining how you use sweeping generalizations about all Christians and yet claim to use facts and logic. 🧐😉
@@mitchm1139 - First not a Bible expert nor a Christianity expert. Sorry for implying that Christians aren't logical. But logic has nothing to do with the Christian Faith.
In my opinion the basic what you need to accept to be a Christian is: accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, and that he is the son of God. How do Christians know this? We got Witness testimonies direct or indirect, in the New Testament. You need faith to believe those testimonies. (I'll go so far as you need to turn off your logical thinking to believe.)
If a stranger came to your door and started to talk about a guy from ... Canada, who performed miracles and raised from the death and he has no evidence. Would you believe him?
(This is getting too long. I'm stopping.)
@@danijelandroid "no evidence"
You told me everything about your "logic".
@@rolandhunter - It's infuriating to arguing with people who CAN'T understand the difference between BELIEVING and LOGIC.
Give me ONE concrete evidence that Jesus is the Son of God. That I or a nonbeliever or a person from a non-Christian religion would believe you.
Ragnar: what is a soul?
Athelstan: *visible confussion*
the whole dynamic of cross referencing their beliefs was a great concept and was originally one of my favorite reasons for enjoying the show so much
Season one, these 2 just being bros, that was hype AF.
Fedora tipping dialogue. Although I do respect the criticism to the Vatican and the church
Ragnar: What is a soul?
Priest: 1+1+1=1
Ragnar: That makes no sense. I love it.
Holy Trinity?
Your heart has four chambers and yet it is one heart only, not four.
@@codieomeallain6635 but there’s a difference between the heart and the chambers
🌈 has many colors but its one rainbow. Gotta love trinity logic.
@@toramaru2490 yes but they are not the same are they ? Yet christians worship jesus, they worship an idol except worship god who’s the father in the scriptures, so is jesus also god? Is he a 100% god?
How to think you've won debates while demonstrating ignorance
It wasn't a debate, but a dialogue.
They deserved so much more screen time together :(
Vikings have their own concept of The Soul but it is very different. It's a Multi-Part Soul rather than a singular entity.
So, (being realistic) it probably wouldn't be that a Viking wouldn't know what a Soul is, but instead would be confused by difference in the Christian concept compared to the one in his culture
Ragnar is like the good cop during interrogation and Rollo the bad cop
This is something I’ve always respected about King Ragnar. He wouldn’t judge you for your religion or religious practice. But don’t start bullshitting him or he’s gonna ask questions that will make you ponder your own choices in life.
Not really. More like how to show how much the confused Catholics (uneducated dark age ones at that) fall short of understanding the true word of God and his design.
And that never changed :D only got worse, these days the majority wear any religion as an accessory and choose what parts to follow very selectively if it's not much of a hinderance.
Tommy gun ,who Talks from god!You sick,because you doesnt understand what He means!!!Your vatican got the most money on earth, but they pray bread for the world,thats Real credibility man's of god!!!Dffff!!!!!⭐️🌙✌️✌️✌️(and dont talk a Muslim,blablabla)nobody can kill in the Name of god!!!So dont talk the same shit like journalist's,so go and be a good Religion man!!!!Of course,you will!!!!✌️✌️✌️
The "uneducated dark age" is a trope, some of the greatest thinkers come from that time.
Also catholicism is the only christian faith tasked with and by the word of god to spread the teachings
@@awuriefnejqwjmnwn4960 I know my words sound like I'm leaning into that trope (which I don't believe in and know that people were fairly literate back in the day), but I was thinking of the superstition, witch burning, and the buying ones way into heaven stuff, etc. That was truly the fruit of ignorant minds wilfully unlearned in the word of God (or malicious, self serving minds). As for your Catholicism, if you're truly doing your best to serve God with your faith then far be it for me to discourage it. But I do disagree with many of the Catholic contentions and think the leaders strayed far from the true teachings of the living word in many ways.
@@awuriefnejqwjmnwn4960 Sorry your words are complett wrong,because the greatest scientist came from Arabien !But ok,Research that and you will see
Clearly the writers have no grasp of Christianity at all
Yup. Because the real God of christianity, which is not a religion but a relationship with him thanks to Jesus, doesn’t need gold because he made it.
You don’t understand the history of Christianity and what the cause of the dark age was. Look into Martin Luther
You would have been the same people to burn innocent women at the stake due to accusations that they were witches.
@@tylerk9455 that's wholly unchristian and superstitious, aka beliefs that are false and take away from our ability to be good believers if the one true word. Dark times drive people to dark measures.
@@tommygunn3369 Point is that religion has done these things throughout history and the fact that people don't understand the point that was being made shows the inability to critically think. Because they can't think for themselves it would stand to reason that they would not think rationally when irrational thinking is the mainstream such as burning women at the stake.
Honestly, the best part of Vikings for me so far is Aethelstan and Ragnar's bromance.
I think the original reason for tithes in Christianity was to support the church as an institution, but also so the church could redistribute it to the poor and needy. Churches could double as charity. It's no different than paying taxes to give back to the community, but unless it was the law of the land or under certain regimes, tithing was voluntary.
There's also the aspect of detaching from worldly riches and "saving up treasures in heaven." It's like fasting-you don't fast because you'll never eat or have sex again, it's a self discipline, and sobering, purifying thing that can give one clarity. It puts our inherent dopamine addictions in their place.
That was the original thought behind the process, at least. Of course humans are going to screw it up, just like they do with taxes or charities, be they public or private.
Not just to redistribute it. Some of it is in fact supposed to go to making big beautiful buildings with beautiful art and statues. We see it in the old Testament when God commands 2 cherubim of beaten gold be made
The soul is the breath of life that animates the body. It’s like the electrical current in a light bulb. Bringing body and soul together creates a living soul, which is you.
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?"
- Mark 8:36
I love how genuine Ragnar’s curiosity seems. He’ll use weaknesses he finds to exploit, but there is a genuine interest in knowledge.
Just throw the "Loki got impregnated by a horse" at him
Answer: the body to form after death
Except norse paganism understands the concept of the soul. Or "hugr" its a slightly different concept than soul. But it is believed to be the part that lives after death. If it showed aethel explaining ragnar quickly wouldve gone ahh the hugr. The undying part of a man. The mind and self. We have that too
When your title betrays your obsessions
Ragnars ambition to learn of other cultures, languages, and religions shows his intelligence!
And then KFC orchestrated a SWAT raid on Los Pollos Hermanos dooming the restaurant lol
Soul means "self". Sad that the fictitious pagan doesn't know this.
The beguining of a great friendship
Currently in the kingdom of Northumbria as we speak 😂
One of the best parts of this series was the developing friendship between Ragnor and Athelstan.
Here I was thinking I gave my money to the church so that they could keep the lights on.
Simply sustaining the church wouldn't require donations in the middle ages. The catholic church was a major landowner all across Europe and was able to draw upon taxes from serfs and whatnot.
@@SuperGman117 It's clearly better to sustain the church with donations nevertheless. The misuse of those lands and funds is somewhat famous. Now, donations of course don't fix that completely, one never can fix human greed, but it's a big step in the right direction. The early church survived on donations as does the church now, on a local level at least.
Ragnar wanted to know where they can find gold easily, so he was questioning him to get answers.
The genius of Ragnar recognising that while everyone else took silver and gold from that first hoard, he took the educated slave who could speak his language. It would give him the access to everything he wanted to know about England before he invaded the country. Instead of going in blind he knows about their kings, their soldiers, their faith and way of life.
In Hebrew, the term nephesh and in Greek, psuche are both translated as “soul” in the Bible. However, they can also be translated as “life” or “person.”
My favorite viking tradition is converting to Christianity
As an atheist: not that great an argument, a christian worth his salt would probably have an answer.
You're absolutely correct. Very insulting how a Christian priest was portrayed in this. But to be fair, even shepherds can be defeated by wolves. But this was more like a shepherd being defeated by a pup.
Your not an atheist . Your a crypto Christian astroturfing as a "fair and balanced" atheist to make Christians seem intelligent
Best way for the Christian to explain to the Viking in a simplistic way,
Would be that a Christian goes to his Valhalla by being a good moral person
A Viking goes to his Valhalla by being a great Warrior
Bro the slow zoom on Athelstans face while he's monologuing is priceless. 😂
So you basically buying ya sins 2 be forgiven😂
Yeah essentially. Still true to this day, those fuckers will ask for a donation then tell you you did the right and just and Christian thing with your money.
It was like that for a very, very, VERY long time until Martin Luther called the church out for that bullshit
Spiritual bribery
@@sergiomendoza4850 that is a very shallow understanding of Christianity in its essence.
@@tangchan6221 And yet, entirely correct. 🤔
Ragnar: “i HATE you for leaving me”😢
😭
I love when Ragnar prop up his feet on a bench, like trying to make Althelstan feel more comfertable having just a casual chat, but Althestan countinue in tention.
Owner and a slave...
What can you expect...
If you ask any Christian what their soul is they’ll be able to answer. If they can’t they probably don’t know anything about Christianity
What is a soul
@@treybowers154it's what makes you, you. it's not a physical thing, it's more like your spirit. your body is like it's home until death.
@@turtlesandmoreturtles4140what makes you you?
@@grienardus12 the soul. The choices you make. Your experiences and memories. As I said, it's not a physical thing like your body. However this means there's debate around it.
@Vetnir-de4yv are you more than your body?
No argument against a Christian was won I call clickbait 💯
Nah bro he just has faith in what he feels to be the truth. No need to be rude about it
@Bruhh Actually I’m intrigued, how exactly did I buy my salvation? My salvation was a FREE gift which I accepted by grace through faith. Only Catholics and other false religions buy fake salvation.
@@M7Reaper >Implying that every other religion is like the catholics and that you need olnly faith to be saved, even tho thats bullshit.
The way Athelstan explained about giving away their riches, it sounds like a bribe to save your soul
Annnnnd right then those mushrooms kicked in, I bet. "What are their souls?" He he😂
Its not about being able to answer or not for the sake lf youtube views, this scene has much more to offer. You could lead a debate (notice the lack of argument word) where the soul goes or what it represents, at the end, its all about the moral values it brings. Something not many people understand today.
Get your resources from a tv show. Awesome
I loved this entire relationship between them. It exactly what we need today. Discussions
Young Ragnar with Athelstan was peak television
They may butcher our bodies but our souls are odins own
-sigthryger (the last kingdom)
I mean this isn’t how to win a debate lmao it’s a good starter to a deeper conversation
I always love the conversation between Ragnar and Athelstan, also King Ecbert. They always have a conversation about religion without having a bias on it, they are trying to argue with and trying to understand each other.
Your soul is a part of you that transcends into the next realm of existence after your body can no longer hold its essence.
what's the next realm
@@emilyb5278 place where your soul goes after death.
It's to be like the author want to persuade modern people to take pagan as like Vikings
This short alone, is the reason why I’m going to rewatch the whole series for the 6th time.
Mind, will and emotions. Basically you and your freedom.
Still one of my favorite parts of any show, the writing is picture perfect.
Yeah I guess if you haven't read the bible you could argue like this.
Yeah some people could read that book and still believe in the delusions..
@@arrak5000 if youre gonna argue it at least have your reasoning be deeper than googling talking points to argue it that don’t even give context or try to understand meaning of a scripture is all I’m saying
@@galatiangod no religious person has ever come up with a logical argument EVER and you won’t be the first.. kind of ironic that you’re talking about “reasoning” when you believe in an invisible being that created the universe and everything in it, with absolutely ZERO evidence 😅 all you have is faith.. logic and reasoning isn’t your strong suits..
@@arrak5000 caught up in your feelings awfully hard there. I’m saying if you’re gonna argue on it at least know what you’re talking about instead of going off what a fedora told you. And it’s no amazing feat realizing that the point a Christian would come from is faith cause that’s all it is in the end.
@@galatiangod The problem with religion is that there are thousands of them and they all say the same thing. I am the one who is right.
The only reason most people are religious is because that is how they were raised either in the house, through culture, or both. That is why a Muslim in Iraq is a Muslim and a Christian in the US is a Christian.
Now I know a thing or 2 about the bible as I grew up in a somewhat religious household. Went to a Christian school and attended church when I was younger. I do not believe in it now, but I respect the stories of ALL religion and find them fascinating.
There are a few points I could use as to why I decided it was bullshit, but I'll use 2 that I find most obvious.
1. Why does God send those he loves to hell. Now I don't know if you have kids, but I do. I love my kids more than anything, and I hope I can do a good job raising them and have a healthy relationship in the future. Let's say however that I fail and they decide not to talk to me. Would the logical thing to do be torture them for all of eternity? Probably not, it would hurt, but I would still love them. God takes this idea and says, if you do not accept me by the time you die, regardless of your actions in life good or bad, you will burn for all of eternity. Does that sound loving to you? It sure does not sound loving to me. That is not a peaceful loving father.
2. This one kind of goes off the first one, but a valid point as well. God is a murderous tyrant who has killed more people than even the most despotic tyrant on earth. How many times has God decided he didn't like what his children were doing and wiped out a group of people. He supposedly flooded the entire planet and then was like my bad here's a rainbow. Ohhh, but if you murder?!? Nope that is terrible, but I'll just flood the earth and kill a bunch of animals, innocent women, babies, children, followers of mine, ect. He is not a nice God. He is not loving. He is a greedy and malicious God who deserves to be forsaken.
I could go on and on, but that is a good starting point. I wish you all the best, but on the religion front I believe it is the science of mind control. The peasants at the bottom are bound to divine rule, while those at the top seem to never ever face consequence.
You could say, well they will face consequences in the after life, but what about the billions of people who suffer in the meantime?
I loved how Ragnar never hated different cultures just tried to learn from them
Such a simple edit to greyscale at the end but that fucking killed me 😂
Id gladly debate in defense of Christianity.... I'm ready....
Based
Righteouss, brother. Let's fight the devils army together when the world hears the final trumpets calling.
okay. lets begin.
If jesus is the son of God are you saying your God slept with mary?
@@ashborn5943 No...
@@gijopez9190 then you admit your entire religion is a hoax
Странный сценарий. У всех христиан, как минимум последовательных всегда найдётся ответ на этот вопрос. Но что ещё более забавно, скандинавы всё равно приняли христианство.
I think more than 50% Scandinavia is atheist
Greatest bromance in TV history
In Norse Mythology they also have afterlife, ghosts and spirits so Ragnar would most likely understood concept of Soul
Yeah that aint a Christian. Thats a Catholic. The Bible does not teach to give gold and silver to the church to save your soul. It teaches to repent. To believe in the name of Jesus Christ. That He is God come in the flesh. Died for our sins and rised again 3 days later.
Thank you.
All the catholics are christians too
Amen
Have you ever read Mark, X, 21 ?
Simple and easy. It's crazy how people misinterpret basic principles such as this. How do people have such misguided and false perceptions of God and how to follow him?
Your soul isnt saved my giving away your riches, its saved through the blood of Jesus Christ.
oh nice, so I’m all set then! dang I was getting nervous cause of all those sins i keep doing
Well the idea is that a Christian who’s truly saved would behave like someone trying to sustainably rid themselves of riches via the process of aiding the needy.
Hence, the parable of the camel and the needle.
The monk trusts in his institutions as a mechanism to facilitate using funds to aid the needy, hence the Christian tradition of tithing. Idk if those institutions are reliable, but his thought process is logically acceptable.
J-Daw save yourself the trouble. This is a youtube comment section. You're basically trying to share the gospel in a COD lobby.
The way you guys portrait god is weird !!!!
Once you describe him as a masochist.. that put him self in a situation where his weaker creatures whip him & lash him and put him on a cross.. then suddenly he turns into Michael jackson thriller seen after 3 days !!! Then you guys drink his blood “wine” and eat his flesh !! “Crackers” !! Are you vampires or zombies!! Feasting on god !!
You are weeeeird no wonder most christians are basically atheist liberals with a religion stamp .. because🎉 god paid for they’re sins so why not sin !! Innit!!
Honestly i never got the logic.. thats why you depend on blind faith…. Just believe and you’ll be saved !! The easiest religion ever existed!!!!!!
Weeeeeeird !!!!!
@@varangiantactical8843 I like a man who knows where his whacky ideas and family traditions aren't needed or wanted! I wish there were more like you! 👍😎
Ragnars relationship with his religion was beautifully written over time.
Northumbria is a beautiful part of the country.
Ragnar shoulda answered "oh, so you have to buy your heaven"
This doesn't portray how to win a debate with a Christian. It portrays the difficulty in explaining the concept of the soul and redemption to a Pagan.
He didnt win the debate, it wasnt even a debate, the other guy was absolutely stunned that he didn't know what a soul was
People who get their information about saving their souls or about GOD from a TV show is ridiculous.
Given your money to a monastery Does not save your soul . Because we Cannot buy our salvation It's only through the Lord Jesus death and resurrection That we can be Forgiven and have eternal life
I think that’s the whole point of what Ragnar says, it shows the irony in religion all over
No paying the church won’t change anything after life and as far we know, nothing will
Does the church mind taking your money? Not at all
Ask them questions that they sound foolish answering ?? Good strategy !
Or maybe catholics just dont know what theyre talking about at all
I don’t think that’s necessarily what he intended to do. But I think ragnars whole disillusionment with religion comes pretty much immediately after meeting Athelstan and then realizing the gods are not so different regardless of what religion you follow.
I think that’s exactly why he asks questions like that, he already knows it’s ridiculous and he doesn’t believe, so he does this to others to try and kinda snap them awake from their fanatical obsession with being so good for their god when in reality it’s like he says. “The gods are there to answer the questions man is to afraid to ask.” Or something like that. His character is fucking awesome, he’s legitimately one of the best written characters I’ve seen on a show.
There is one thing I have learned from movie productions: you will win every debate when your opponent is actually on your side.