George R. R. Martin Saw It Coming
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 19 окт 2024
- Right before House of the Dragon Season 2 premiered, George Martin shared an interesting blog post about how some screenwriters and producers approach adapting great stories.
“Everywhere you look, there are more screenwriters and producers eager to take great stories and make them their own. It does not seem to matter whether the source material was written by Stan Lee, Charles Dickens or Tolkien. No matter how major a writer it is, no matter how great the book, there always seems to be someone on hand who thinks he can do better, eager to take the story and improve on it. The book is the book, the film is the film, they will tell you, as if they were saying something profound. They never make it better, though. Nine hundred ninety-nine times out of a thousand, they make it worse.”
And as one might expect, this blog post sparked quite a bit of controversy. While some fans speculated that Martin might have been subtly criticizing the House of the Dragon writers, others argued that the first season was so well done that Martin wouldn't possibly be criticizing them.
However here we are, and after Season 2 Episode 6, I believe this blog post is indeed a shade towards the show's writers. In fact, Martin's recent blog post about dragons further proves that there are aspects of the show that he found quite problematic.
If you are the owner of the music please contact: valaritas0@gmail.com
FAIR USE REMINDER:
This video may contain copyright material from HBO's House of the Dragon and Game of Thrones, the use of which has not been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. This material is made available under section 107 of the Copyright Act of 1976, allowance is made "fair use" for the purposes such as criticism, comment, review, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, education and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that otherwise might be infringing. All rights belong to its owners.
#houseofthedragon #gameofthrones #rhaenyratargaryen
Can we also talk about how they completely obfuscated the fact that Helaena should be sinking into madness with grief? They made the killing of her child a comedy scene like the burglars from Home Alone, and topped it off with Alicent screwing around….
Right, doesn’t Helaena basically go insane in the book?
@@conniptions1533 Exactly, it’s one of the reasons she doesn’t fight on Dreamfyre in the defense of the Greens. And ends throwing herself out the window to her death
Also let’s not forget that she has barely any scenes, when in the books you can easily empathize with her character because they show you how much pain she’s going through due to her child’s death.
@@nicksmith128thanks for the spoiler dude good job
@@lpnp9477The show sucks, spoilers will make no difference at this point. Here’s another spoiler the next season will probably be worse than this one.
What's wild about the kiss scene between Rhaenyra and Mysaria is that Mysaria JUST got through talking about how her father raped and impregnated her as a child, cut out the baby and left her for dead... Like.. in what world would someone want to do anything sexual immediately after telling someone about their childhood sexual abuse??????
made me wanna throw up
Exactly. Sadly, friendships are no longer enough in Hollywood. Every relationship has to have sexual undertones especially if it is queer.
look a puriten talking about how its not sanitary enough.
You obv have never been to a goth club😂
Apparently it got the actresses going, since it made them want to spontaneously make out
Rhaenyra sneaking into KL to have a chat with alicent, and now in Ep8 Alicent doing the same thing… what are these writers smoking. It made no sense.
Right. It seems super easy to just get into each others bedrooms. It’s like a cartoon
It was soo tasteless I wouldn’t write that or think of it even if I was 10 years old
@ericd1022 it makes complete sense if you're a modern feminist. Try to view it that way
Aemond ordered that every boat that leaves the harbour be inspected as well. Theres no way word of the queen or somone with her likeness being at the harbour WOULDNT reach aemond
@@lukeswa.nlet's face it, Condal aka Dumb and Dumber 2.0 and his idiot writers don't have the brainpower to think that far.
Most writers now write like fanfictions
House of the dragon fanfiction recommendations: the green queen (Ao3), the tartered dragon-Aegon son of Baelon (Ffn), A young woman inevitable dance of the dragon (Ao3 and spacebattles)
I think that’s an insult to most fanfics at this point. Most fanfics are usually the first effort by the person writing it and aren’t actually professionals who are paid by large corporations. Hell, even then some fanfics can be so bad they’re good or at least entertainingly crazy with what the fan thinks.
@@williamfrank962 true. There's a lot of fanfic that is much better than the original.
I guess, the most apt is that most writers are unexperienced on how to write and needs more training which the studio fails to give
@@arrielradja5522 honestly, in my opinion it’s a mixture of inexperience, politics (unfortunately), and studio meddling.
The first I think like you said that many writers are hired on don’t have much experience when it comes to game shows and movies. I mean try to compare movies that were considered mediocre 15 years ago and can bet if it were made today with modern cgi and budgets it would probably be hailed as a great movie due to the movies we usually get today. Rhaynera visiting alicent in the sept where they used to converse all those years ago to try to appeal to peace sounds good on paper: it’s a last desperate attempt between former friends to stop war, its a callback to previous scenes, it emphasizes the importance of role of religion of alicent and is a last farewell to the two before bloodshed. However, logistically it doesn’t make sense. Rhaynera wouldn’t be able to really enter the capital and even if she did she’d be taken away in a realistic sense to end the war before it continues, the blacks would panic as their queen would be gone for at least a couple days as it takes distance to travel, there’s no way the greens wouldn’t have people telling them that they saw her dragon as everyone is watching the sky presumably after cristen Cole’s chase into the Forrest and the battle with sun fyre and Vhagar and finally it what can alicent do? She has no real power in the game besides being aegons mother who don’t listen to here anymore all she’s doing in my eyes making alicent have a guilt trip over her choice of actions.
Second and while I don’t mean to get political I know from actual experience within the entertainment industry that politics and identity politics are being deliberately pushed and are a focus point during meetings. House of the dragon proves this with the characterization of the two female leads and the male ones (aegon, aemond and Daemon). The book paints them all as multifaceted characters who come off as very grey all around both the greens and the black have just as much reason for you to hate them as much as support them. The show especially in season two makes it clear who you are meant to route for (blacks) and who are the villains (greens). With many deliberate evil actions by the blacks ether being accidents or outright ignored.
The issue is that in today’s age some studio heads won’t allow certain minorities or a gender to be outright villains and also won’t allow them to be portrayed in certain ways. It’s why Maeve from the boys wasn’t killed, it’s why Rhaynera can’t be overtly villainous. I understand the thought process somewhat (you don’t want to be punching down) but the issue is that it takes away from the nuances of conflict that was done well in the book. I also think this series wants Rhaynera to be the new Danny which can’t work as (before her turn) Danny was far more morally righteous and caring towards the people and characters than Rhaynera ever was but to counter this they are deliberately trying to alter her character to be more like Danny. Daemon also has been nurtured compared to his counterpart along with aegon and aemond relationship. He’s far more weak in terms of self confidence, determination and personality, I think this was done because Daemon can be seen as a toxic masculine figure that people would rally behind. I also think they deliberately gutted the relationship between aemond and aegon. In the books I believe aemond is actually the smaller of the two and while the aegon still bullies aemond I believe the two actually form a strong bond. Aegon gives aemond a feast after liking Luke and aemond (at least described) is horrified by what was done to his children and goes into a rage and it would’ve been a nice change to see a power hungry character actually not go behind his brothers back to take the throne because he just genuinely cares for him, I think it was done to create tension but at the same time they are also two “toxic” characters and showing a genuine friendship between male characters that isn’t just “bro this and that” is harder to find. But I do think I’m looking to far with that one.
Finally it’s clear that the studio has made this series slog because they need to ether make sure the budget is enough for later and it’s safe enough for producers to invest in. This is becoming more of an issue with tv shows, movies and games demanding higher and higher budgets due to production costs. It’s just a part of life and just how entertainment is currently and it’s not a blame game but you can tell they are stalling because of some budgetary reasons and stretching it out for them to get their money’s worth and more.
I agree! This season felt like a whole poorly written fanfiction.
As a fanfiction writer I myself, I write for me and if other people like what I make then good but thats not my priority. These show writers are writing for millions of people who are getting paid a professional's wage.
Unbelievable that they didn't learn from what happened with GoT
Tbf, the problem with GoT wasn't so much show writers deviating from the source material because of their ego (they did some of that, but the show could survive it.); main problem there was show writers just plain running out of source material (because GRRM never finished the last two books) and having to continue on their own, with only a couple general tips from GRRM as to what ought to happen.
@@SirContowhich is why it’s even more frustrating. At least D&D did AMAZING work with seasons 1-4 when they had material. When it ran out, fine, it sucked. But these writers have it all. They chose to bastardize it. They chose to ruin it. And they chose to insert personal agendas into a fantasy story.
Even got s8 is better this s2 shit
@@SirConto "main problem there was show writers just plain running out of source material"
This is completely and utterly false and I wish people stopped saying this. You probably haven't even read the books.
In season 5 they WERE still adapting books, 4 and 5, and they changed almost EVERYTHING. Dorne, Stannis, Sansa's arc, Aegon left out, Mance, Stoneheart, on and on it goes. They deviated from the source material to an absurd degree, and that was exactly the moment the show dropped off a cliff. It wouldn't have mattered if George had written the final books, because the writers ALREADY had completely abandoned them.
@@AegonTheUnlikely D&D did have all the source material for season 5 too, and they completely changed it and replaced it with storylines of their own, all of which were terrible.
After seeing the finale I'm 100% spot on. They totally dropped the ball on season 2 regardless of how well season 1 went.
Just like another certain show
S1 was not good either 😂
Not totally. Both seasons were a mixed bag with some great additions to the book content but some glaring flaws. Still good imo
Season 1 was good at best. It definitely had stupid moments even for the most casual viewer's eyes.
It so odd, because after watching Season 1 I was like - "Great! Seems they have learned a bunch of valuable lessons from GoT" and then S2 HOTD is honestly among the worse seasons in GoT and HotD combined. What a letdown :(
HBO really should just give George RR Martin veto power over any major script deviations from the source material.
George RR Martin really should just finish the god damn books😅
That's such a naive thought. Why would HBO give him creative authority when it is most likely them who push for these additions to the scenes?
If they did that it would take about 5 years to write one episode.
They will never do it
George RR Martin sold the rights to his world years ago lol The idea of him having veto power over anything is laughable, hence the salty blog posts
Adam claiming Seasmoke is sacrificing so much of what makes him a great character. In the books, Alyn is the one who tries first to get Seasmoke and almost gets killed. He gets a nasty burn from the experience but Adam intervenes to save him, risking his life. Through his bravery, as he saves his brother, he is acknowledged by Seasmoke, and bravery will be a recurring trait for Adam along with his loyalty.
On Alyn's side, he never holds it against his brother that he was chosen instead of him. He overcomes his wounds and dedicates himself entirely to sailing, carving his own path even if he shall never be a dragonrider. The story of the two is beautiful, especially for a pair of commoners/bastards.
Like why couldn’t we have had this!!! Budget sounds reasonable AND it gives more backstory to two new characters that people would love. Like the books spell out shit for these people and they say fuck it. Instead let’s fuck around with Daemon and Rhaenyra doing nothing all season.
@@edd4131 That's not even the worse case here. I invite you to look into someone named Nettles.
@@thibautisserant Rhaena>Nettles
@rajyavardhansingh4491 Nettles>Rhaena
@@thibautisserant Oh, our poor smart and patient girl. Her story of claiming the dragon was so inspiring in the books. In the show we get a girl running to the dangerous creature and hoping for the best.
Unfortunately, this video did NOT age like milk.
Yeah, especially after the writers doubled down and repeated the same mistake, this time with Alicent sneaking out of King's Landing to see Rhaenyra! What the heck are these writers doing, have they even read the book? These characters are no longer supposed to be friends, and these scenes make both of them look like complete idiots.
@Rocket1377 Even more batshit insane is the fact Alicent literally gives up BOTH of her sons to be murdered . . . I knew something was wrong when they made Halaena just casually give up her baby boy to be brutally murdered without a moments hesitation, punctuated by the insane lack of emotion/fear or even real care as her son was literally beheaded 5ft away from her . . . . . . . . . That's so ****ing crazy to me it's actually mind boggling, these writers (specifically the woman involved in this show) are THAT detached from reality and mentally unhinged from their warped beliefs and views of society.
@@Rocket1377 the book itself is vague and literally written from the perspective of a maester after the fact. I feel like that argument never holds water.
@@Intreductorwhat argument, that rhaenyra and Alicent aren’t friends?
Wait a couple years not a couple weeks
How many times are writers going to make this same mistake. GoT, HoTD, the Witcher. Stop fucking with shit
Ego always gets in the way
It’s not accidental. They all have to put ‘the message’ in, but they know that won’t attract an audience so they find something good and force the message into it. Nothing that begins with the message in mind is good, so they have to take good stuff that doesn’t have the message and cram it in there.
I’m still not over how they butchered the Witcher
@@JoeMama-yd1vespot on
@@JoeMama-yd1ve Umm.... What is the "message" are you referring to? Could you elaborate for me if I may ask?
why are writers egos so fucking big that they cannot leave the source material alone
Their egos are big, their talent is anything but big. It's the nepotistic and cronyism of tv and movie land that's destroyed the chances of people with talent getting a foot in the door.
TV writers, let's be precise.
because you keep consuming this sh*t.
The first 2 seasons of House of the Dragon are based on like 100 pages total. There just isn’t enough source material for an adaptation not to add more. Also, a big theme of Fire and Blood is that the histories ARE NOT RELIABLE
@@lardplowsmen2891 i understand adding for example, alicent and rhaenyras relationship, the book wouldn’t obviously have that, or viserys being such a good character, but omitting some of them or just blatantly doing weird shit
These days, it seems like most stories can't show two characters opening up to each other without implying or leading to a sexual encounter. It's as if genuine emotional connection is always tied to physical intimacy.
yeah, its completly nuts. Daemon thinking about his mum? Sex scene.... WTF is goung on in this fucked up world?
@@TheRealDionysos i wonder, if it might be related to the fact, people across the world, but especially in developped countries, have less and less sex, especially the younger generations. People loosing their touch with sex in real life, they want to compensate with the screen...
@@bretonneux3389 I think porn addiction has a place in this matter. A TV Show is kinda like a tiktok/short/reel attention seeking and kinks are getting crazier because of the porn addiction. So they put sex where it doesnt belong just to get some attention.
Thank you. So many strong, platonic relationships are ruined by writers thinking it has to lead to romance
@@anonymousanonym450until you stop being anonymous im a few years, you will stop
Rhaenrya sneaking into King's Landing to try to talk to Alicent was piss poor writing. After all that happened, Rhaenerya did not think that Alicent would not arrest or kill her on the spot? Alicent is not in charge and can't do anything even if they agreed on it. This made no sense whatsoever.
Alicent not seizing her was even worse writing.
Imagine not arresting the woman whose side ordered the death of your grandchild. You could have ended the war right then and there and prevented the deaths of all three of your children
Rynerea is terrible altogether she inspires zero confidence dont know if shes supposed to act like that of its the actress
@@SunDogGod I think she understood Rhaenerya was not responsible for that. I mean why go through all that effort to talk to her if she was that furious that Alicent was responsible for the death of her son, and Team Green drew first blood. But yeah, makes no sense not to detain her no matter what she thought. Since she knows the war is only going to end with the death of her family or Rhaenerya's family.
They wanted to create a reason to have Rhaenyra and Alicent speaking togetherand they had to make Rhaenyra look more interested in finding a peaceful solution so they contrived this foolish scheme which would be incredibly dangerous to her cause, and even worse had no hope of success by that point.
Started readimg Game of Thrones. The first season is almost beat for beat same as the book. That's why it was so great.
GoT's first season was far from being it's best, with its un-warranted hostility, tits, plastic armors, silly helmets, tits, outrageous wigs, synthetiser music, tits, rigid structure...
No, the first season was one of the best. It wasn’t the best but was certainly better than 5-8 when D&D needed to write on their own since Martin didn’t finish the books like he said he would.
Besides, what’s wrong with tits?
The TV stayed tight with the books right up until S7 if i remember rightly
@@martinportelance138Who hates tits??
@@redberries8039 The books ended about partway through Season 5. In the books at that point Tyrion is with Dany, Sansa is still at the Vale, Arya is at the House of Black and White, Bran is with the 3 eyed raven, etc.
That's where things started to really fall off the rails when there was no more book material. As much as I love the series, GRRM is the main person one to blame for not continuing the books over those years GoT was in production and helping the show to find its way. The problem is, he still doesn't know how to tie up the loose ends in a reasonable way.
I'd call it fanfiction, but that would imply the writers are fans.
You can call us ‘book purists’ all you want. The truth of the matter is that HOTD has removed moral ambiguity from the entire Black faction. Rhaenyra = good and Alicent/Aemond/Aegon = bad
It can’t work like that. Why didn’t we have a scene of Aegon feasting Aemond for slaying their bastard nephew and Alicent/Otto’s resulting displeasure? Why is Aemond written as hating his brother, when he’s meant to have fought to the death for him?
And why does Helaena not even mourn the beheading of her firstborn child? Alicent cried more than her ffs. Why isn’t Rhaenyra more ruthless? Why don’t we have a slightest taste of the ‘bitch queen of bastards!’ Why isn’t she angrily raging at her poor health such that she can barely seat her dragon?
It’s not a bad show by any means, but the characters could have all been 10 times more interesting by following the source material.
@@cb-7422 nobody care besides the « book purists ». Y’all find an issue in anything every Sunday lmaoo
@@cb-7422 I’d probably agree with this take, even having not read the books myself. I don’t know a single person arguing for the Greens, clearly it’s not a hard choice for the audience.
@@jacobdehaas6482 Yea that's kinda the issue, the whole point of having two sides and doing this "choose your team" advertising campaign is for both sides to be viable in some ways and bad in others.
@@Astro-uc1pi giiiirl poweeeeeeeer yaaaas slay queeeeeeeeen 😂😂
@@Astro-uc1pi giiiirl poweeeeeeeer yaaaas slay queeeeeeeeen 😂😂
Unfortunately after s2ep8 this video aged like fine wine... Who in their right mind thought it was a good idea to give us another Alicent-Rhaenyra scene?
Fanfiction 😂
Lesbian worshipping writers probably.
The writers apparently
The most annoying lack of a chekhov's gun is Rhaenyra not killing Laenor just for him to die off screen. Her not killing him didn’t change anything: the Velaryrons still hate Rhaenyra and Seasmoke was still claimed. It just felt like the writers wanted to keep her image squeaky clean so the viewers knew how to root for
I honestly believe that daemon paid qarl correy to slay him at that fair at spicetown in front of eye witnesses and didn’t corlys go and receive his sons corpse
@@Aegon-Targaryen29AC that’s some interesting head canon
@@brainboyben going from what mushroom said but i know he ain’t reliable theres a few ways in fire and blood they say it could of happened and headcannon ?
@@brainboyben I didn’t guess that bro 😂
Or imagine it it’s in fire and blood I’m agreeing with you 😂
I sincerely hope I am wrong, but I think they will cut most of the bad things Rhaynera did (as they already did with Laenor, etc.) and make her end just anti-climatic. Also, they completely ruined Daemon this season. They could easily pack all of his dreams in two or three episodes, and that would be enough. Also, I don't know why, but my gut is telling me the show producers are going to fuck up the battle of God's eye. It feels like this show will go downhill even though it has a brilliant season one IMO.
@@thisisboxingproductions6894 the writing already went downhill back in S1 starting with the lame "Aegon's dream" like Aegon the Conqueror saw the white walkers but didn't see what Visenya and Maegor did (dude saw he had advantage that's all), and then in Ep8 how they made Alicent accept Rhaenyra as the future queen after all she did with Daemon, like the "Laenor" thing and the Vaemond thing just 2 hours ago, wtf was that about? does a regent queen like Alicent really needs to misunderstand Viserys to chose her son over Rhaenyra after all she saw and knows about the Blacks? As if Rhaenyra didn't also fight for her non-Velaryon son to take Driftmark, it was a very biased and lazy writing and framing and it's very very early for this, D&D showed more fairness to Stannis than Condal ever did with this story and characters
I would have honestly loved Rhaenyra if she was grey and told Daemon to order Leanor's death for real in Ep7 it would have shown her to be aware of what's waiting for her Strong boys in the far future so she decides to eliminate the "alcoholic absent father" to have a trueborn sons with unquestionable parentage, because in her defense Laenor was a burden and it can just be her and Daemon's secret to take for the grave, how is Rhea Royce's death is more acceptable than Leanor's? Laenor is a bigger burden for Rhaenyra than Rhea Royce ever was for Daemon, instead of that we got a very delusional Rhaenyra that thinks she's in the year 2024 in some western country
@@4549uef I agree with most of this but expand on the strong boys / leanor / trueborn relationship ... Woldnt this mean Rheanyra has subconscious and potentially negative outlook of her bastards
@@guwopzyyes that's the point, Rhaenyra having consciousness on the Strong boys gives her character awareness, did she really think that a Strong boy will forever be secured on the throne with her brothers and younger sons in the picture? Come on, even by removing the Greens there's still a problem
This doesn't mean that she has a negative outlook on them, it means that she wants what's best for everyone, because I can't see any alternative outcome where Jace become King and Daemon's sons just play loyal (Daemon Blackfyre rebelled for less) but Rhaenyra being so delusional about Jace's lineage and future is so bad for her character's intelligence, I think awareRhae is more interesting and entertaining to watch, she would have made a tough decision as a parent but understandably right one
@@4549uef 👌👌 I get you. Even in the most recent episode right after Jace lashed out in my head the conversation and her reaction seemed off, from a writing standpoint.
Yeah I'm with you.
I'm less hopeful and definitely tipping into afraid now of just how much they will bend this beautiful story over the barrel, and just have there way with it.
The bigger issue for me regarding Mysaria's character is how they made a woman who made a career out of exploiting girls and women to the point of her earning the moniker Lady Misery, into a champion of the people.
Just. Don't. Some people don't deserve redemption. Stop making clear cut monsters like Mysaria be relatable poor little meow meows. They even did it to Cheese what the fuck.
From changing Mysaria, cutting out Nettles, and changing how B&C went down, you can see how badly the showrunners want to depict precious Rhae Rhae as the undisputable good person. And the irony is that for a show that wants to depict women in power, they failed showing empowered women by robbing them of their agency. Of course a lot of Team Black fans won't question it and will fight for the show's shitty writing. They want Rhaenyra to be Daenerys 2.0 so bad that they'd ignore every single mind rotting evidence of shitty writing.
I wanted to see a story where both sides seem despicable which seems to be more in line with the books.
Exactly. Cersei is a piece of shit til the end but she is a compelling piece of shit. If these guys handled GOT they probably would've made her innocent
Exactly. Cersei was a piece of sh*t but she was a compelling piece of sh*t and her scenes were always great. I can't imagine what these writers would have done to her if they handled GOT.
@@bandoogiemanzyeah that was the feeling I had after season 1, but this season did not deliver on that
@@bandoogiemanz they were both filled with heroes and villains, that's what made The Dance so interesting.
Good to see that at least few people are criticizing the show's second season. As a book reader I had to stop watching after episode 3. I was able to smell the rot early. But I am shocked to see some of the big youtube critics who have been criticizing Star Wars, Witcher and Rings of Power, still silent about the downfall of the show. This is not GRRM or ASOIAF. Adaption of Viserys is probably the only thing the show runner did really good and the key to that was being faithful to the source material.
I thought I was the only one at first. I was like “am I watching the same show as everyone else ?” . It was so disappointing
And Daemon in first season was great too but then...
Even GRRM told Paddy (Visery's actor) "Your Viserys is better than my Viserys"
It was a far better and way more fleshed out protrayal than in the books.
i'll never get over the mysaria confesing to being sa'd and almost k*lled to then kissing. i had heard that sonoya was the one that suggested it, but now you say that emma said so. either way, that kinda shows why neither is a writer. i wouldn't have minded the kissing scene had it been literally anywhere else. what part of a horrible confession makes you go "oh well but what if we kiss?"
Emma, the actor that plays raenyra is gay so yea
@@Dr_Diaz and? i'm gay too and don't immediately think of kissing the person that just confessed to being s.a.'d and almost killed just cos "it was the mood".
@@luv-like.a.papercut you have to understand that when you suffer a mental illness of this degree, not all react the same way.
Comfort and understanding.
@@Dr_Diaz that's a weird argument you just pulled out of thin air. its still weird af, dude
Thank goodness for pointing this out I know so many fans will say the book is not historically accurate but the problem is that doesn’t mean u can do whatever u want.
How, pray tell, can a book about a FICTIONAL UNIVERSE be "historically accurate?"
@@TonyB2279 Follow the source material, like actually read the book. It isn't this complicated...
None of the changes are egregious or reckless.
@@thenickfoxx There was 2 examples given in this video of dumb changes that weren't even made by the script but by people who thought to improvise them in the moment with no regard to even the changed story they made, that's about as reckless as it gets.
@@thenickfoxx 2 episodes less this season, and I can count wasted minutes of showtime with useless filler that could have been used for material IN THE BOOKS…that’s financially reckless on the part of the showrunners and the writers
I’m afraid that after what we saw in the recent leaks from the s2 finale, this video will age like a fine wine….
What I also find problematic besides changes that directly conflict with the lore and the world of Martin’s books, are possible timeline changes, taking important events from the dance and rearranging their order.
Also the show writers obsession with game of thrones and it’s (disastrous) last season should end. The book was written to expand the lore and explain to the reader how and why Targaryen’s dragons became extinct, and not specifically as a prequel to GoT. The writers should treat HotD like an unconnected story in the same universe rather than try to tie the two together by all means possible (and for whatever reason, like why even do that??).
I saw the leaks too and was absolutely cringing at Daemon turning into Jon Snow 2.0 with the “you are muh qween” ish and the song of ice and fire crap.
It’s almost like the writers don’t know that people hated the last seasons of the show. Out of touch with their audience.
@@synthamvs7624 And now we know the leaks are true... We're cooked.
The problem is that they cram too much "modern day ideals" into what is supposed to be a gritty medieval fantasy show.
They did the same for Netflix's The Witcher, especially season 3. They did it so much that it didn't feel like I was watching a medieval fantasy show, it felt like I was watching a bunch modern day New Yorkers playing a game of LARP.
I think that they’re afraid of looking bad or not progressive if they don’t cram in that crap. It’s almost out of fear rather than a desire to spice up the story.
MODERN? there is so much gay people in medieval times in whore houses whos done more freaky shit than we do in this modern times, what they showed with Rhaenyra is very fucking weak for there times for boomers like you to handle
Ironically, it's _you_ that has it twisted when you say something like "what is supposed to be a gritty medieval fantasy" -- This place isn't even in our solar system, much less whatever definition of "medieval" you think it should be mimicking. This isn't history, it's entirely supernatural fiction. It can be structured in accordance to whatever ideals its creator(s) want it to be, and it has absolutely zero obligation to adhere to whatever corny lane you think is better. There's literally a billion other "gritty medieval fantasy" stories out there, go immerse yourself in one of them if that's what you want. There's literally no shortage of them.
@@Trepanation21 Well, you said, "whatever ideals its creator wants it to be." The creator is George R.R. Martin, and they're not using his ideals in the show.
@@Trepanation21Have you even read asoiaf?
How hard is it to just follow the damn books!
100% exactly
They don't want to follow the books bc they got high with how successful s1 was so they try to top it by adding their own creative twist to say "this is MY adaptation" appealing to the woke crowd with that random kiss right after she talked about her father raping her and cutting her baby out and being left for dead? Kissing right after that sure feels right apparently
@@hangyao479 I watched an interview that had the actresses saying yeah we just felt it was right to kiss. Director was like sure fuck it why not. Whole show is going to shit. The dragon fights will be fun and that's about it.
@@Palaecrouhh if you read fire and blood George indicates intimate relationships between Targaryen women and their ladies in waiting. It’s very much source material and very much in his world of GOT.
All events of season 2 described in approximately 20 pages in the book. "Fire and Blood" is literally a Wikipedia article and it can't be simply TV adapted without changes. Many are upset about Daemon in this season, but at this point in the books he is literally doing nothing.
Some changes are weird, like Rhaenyra sneaking into King's Landing or her kiss with Mysaria, but overall most of the content they made up is well-done and often adds more layer's to the original story.
So far the biggest step from the books - Rhaena claiming Sheepstealer, which is disappointing, but not as much big of a deal really, as people describe it. Everything else is quite simply adding up with the books.
grrm is truly cursed. Even when he has a finished clear cut book in place, incompetent people gravitate towards him like toilet paper to the butt. It’s so bad that it made me miss d&d’s earlier work on got when they actually followed the book to a T. I genuinely hope they hire good screenwriters for s3 bc this show has too much potential.
I hate that they belittle Daemon in every way possible
Characters did the same to Jamie Lannister and theon in the original series. People think damon sent to lads to murder a baby it makes sense why people don’t particularly care for him
@raymondsims7042
Tbh that's all fine and dandy as B&C still does happen in the books.
But even if ppl do loathe him in Fire and Blood,all of them,lords included know damn well wtf he would do to anyone who showed him even the slightest of disrespect.
Book Daemon is literally the LAST person on earth you would want to show disdain to.
Jaime got more shit because he didn't have a dragon,and even then ppl would mostly talk down to him when he was imprisoned and couldn't carve them apart like a cake.
Theon on the other hand is a joke and everyone knows it,comparing him to these 2 gigachads is frankly insulting ngl. 😂😂😂
Game of Woke.
All women in the GoT universe that mattered all got elevated to insane positions of power because.. no reason. House of the Dragon is doing more or less the same, over shadowing its strong male leads in favour of what ever this is.
Showrunners trying to make the men look small and pathetic.
Daemon Targaryen? More like Demo Targaryen AMIRIGHT
After the leaks I truly believe he was talking about house of the dragon
He was, we got played again by the writers
@Krit101wu don't want to know.
@Krit101w It can
@Krit101w Alicent goes to Dragonstone and tells Rhaenyra to take Kings Landing, effectively betraying her family and all her children for some reason no one knows. As well as continuing the terrible plot of people sneaking back and forth between Dragonstone and Kingslanding
Daemon prostrates himself to Rhaenyra after having a vision of Daenerys, and he tells her “winter is coming, you are muh qween” mega cringe
Helaena blatantly spoils what will happen to Aemond, like she literally says what his fate will be and where. No subtly and literary foreshadowing in the delivery, awful writing. “You will die at the God’s eye and Aegon will be king again”. The writers have no idea how to do basic foreshadowing to create buildup.
Aemond cries like a b*tch after Helaena refuses to fight, confirming that Helaena is the most useless character in the show and only acts as a plot device to foretell future events. Apparently her only personality is autism.
@@synthamvs7624lmao you are so spot on it’s incredible 😂
So when is Daemon and Cole making out 💀
Something I’ve been hating about this season is the two factions addressing each other as the “greens” and the “blacks”. In the books (as far as I can remember), they never did that… it was more like how people in the court would secretly refer to them. I’m starting to think that some lazy writing appears to be more evident in the show… overall
I have to admit I’ve been enjoying the show so far
Yeah this is definitely a insignificant nitpick, especially compared to the more better criticisms.
If an entire kingdom calls their leaders greens or blacks there's a good chance the leaders have heard the names they have for them
That pissed me off too
Like who would do that
It’s something I would think would actually only occur after a time in the historical record
"In the book" aren't you tired of this?This is season 2 and I am sure you watched sea 1 already.The show has been adapted from the book for TV and their are writers especially hired for that reason.So obviously there will be some changes.
@@binayshrestha7132 Why are you complaining about people commenting and comparing the series with the book if the original video IS about that? What did you expect?
S.Hess definitely earned every spark of what George R.R Martin said for Season 2 writing, she even said they just put a random black Goat in Harrenhal because they thought it would be "Random Cool" 😂🤣😂🤣😂
She must have like an 80 IQ, how is this person a writer? Send her to rings of power where she belongs
No effing way! Is this legit?
@@andrzejkopalniayessss
Women honestly can’t help but ruin every fantasy and sci-fi project they’re given creative control over.
Nah that can’t be real 😂
And now after episode 8 I'm so done with this show. The writers are awful. No one has any agency anymore. Rhaenyra just sits there doing nothing to not "hurt the people". Daemon spent the entire season halucinating about how awful he is. It's garbage.
i’m still gonna be watching to see the dragons. i don’t love the story or plot changes but i like seeing the scenes with dragons in lol i just find them very neat
Ever time, I finished an episode. I couldn't even give a small recap to what happened. Every single episode and the entire season felt like filler. There is NO actual progress in the story like GoT. Daemon hallucinating the entire season, Corlys keeps moping around his bastard sons.
I have tell you this, I still enjoy the second season but I can see these issues too. I think main problem writers have a lot of different ideas. That's why there are character inconsistencies, but also great moments showing their struggles. But first season was way better.
Why can't u Western people fathom pure platonic friendship between people of the same sex?? Every relationship has to be sexual for you guys
Yes the first season was much more focused. I still like this season overall but the amount of quality scenes has gone down so much compared to season 1
The kissing scene was off. Even in the same episode, there was something similar going on. Why didn't we see Larys and Aegon kissing, though? They had some kind of bond too. But they're not gay, right? The show never mentioned their sexual preferences before, so why do this with Rhaenyra? No one had issues with Rhaenyra and Mysaria, the problem with the execution. It's about how these writers sneakily push their ideologies into characters that aren't theirs.
Are you being serious?🤔😂😂😂
Lol😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Wtf is goin on with you
what a snowflake
Screw everyone in these comments. You make a valid point.
The kiss was off as the show could potray more interesting and important plot points, but they choose to have a random and completely strange kiss scene because they felt like it. The last part is important, as it deviates from the source material which is the main problem in the whole industry right now. Deviating from the source as GRRM says is the problem.
Sadly this video aint aging like milk but as the finest scotch.
So, you saw the finale leaks too huh?
I came here after seeing the ep.. felt like some star wars sequels fall off oh my god
This video perfectly sums up how I’ve been feeling about this show
The show is doing very well, and u don't have to watch it...
@@greysaku it’s my favorite show out right now, that doesn’t mean we can’t point out problems that we have with it…
@@greysaku 💯
@@greysakujust because it's doing well doesn't mean it's been good this season has been a massive let down they teased this huge war and what have we got one big dragon scene
Thank God I’ve gotten into warhammer to fill the void
I have been saying this all season long,every single episode has plotholes,some of them completely immersion and lore breaking.
Rhaenys being in King's Landing for some reason and letting the greens go.
Daemon wanting to go after Aemond with Rhaenys and her refusing.
Baela not killing Criston and Gwayne when she had the chance.
Aemond attacking Aegon on purpose,instead of it being an accident because he was aiming at Rhaenys.
Rhaenys deciding to turn back for no reason instead of her and Meleys being crushed under Vhagar.
Rhaenyra somehow managing to sneak into King's Landing to talk to Alicent and then Alicent just deciding to let her go instead of having her killed.
Daemon having his LSD trips for like a year,making the Blackwoods both genocidal maniacs as well as having them commit said genocide wearing a royal Targaryen banner for no reason as Daemon would have gotten the fealty of the riverlords thru Oscar regardless.
Rhaena deciding to abandon her little brothers for no reason and seemingly claiming Sheepstealer instead of the brilliant Nettles subplot.
Also the enormous implications of dragons being able to nest just about anywhere in the world,in this case the Vale,as it completely makes the Doom of Valyria causing the near extinction of dragons look like a joke,as George himself pointed out.
Rhaenyra sending food baskets and posters about needing dragon riders into King's Landing and Larys and Aemond being blind not to see it.
And the most recent blunder with Ulf flying over King's Landing only for Aemond to just now decide to chase him to Dragonstone when he could have done just that as soon as he dealt with Rhaenys and Meleys.
And of course Rhaenyra deciding to let him go for some reason instead of jumping him in a 6 vs 1 massacre where Vermithor,Silverwing,Seasmoke,Syrax,Vermax and Moondancer could tear him and Vhagar to shreds.
I haven't of course even talked about how Rhaenyra is made to be some do no wrong paragon of virtue,when she is just as flawed and unsuited to rulling in her own way.
All in all,HoTD only tries the absolute bare minimum to coincide with the events that cannot be changed,but everything else around them is nonsensical fanfiction that completely ruins both immersion as well as enjoyment of the story.
Ppl can say the book is the book and the show is the show all they like,but the one thing ppl dislike,especially true fans is being treated like they're dumb and like their opinions don't matter.
Pretty bold thing to do not even 2 full seasons in when you've barely garnered a sliver of good will after the absolute garbage that the ending of GoT was.
How sad that the writers are not even qualified to ADAPT an already written book.
Now remember that a lot of these core problems will butterfly effect and cause future plot holes
I agree with everything except the Aemond burning Aegon thing. When I read F&B it didn't seem like an accident to me. Doesn't Aemond also wearing the crown literally saying: "It suits me better than him"?
reading all this should haves from the latest episodes sounds like a child speaking giberish "ooh she should killed her on the spot ooh lets turn our brains off and just ATTACK" its so funny. to see this shit ass comment dables to politics and war so lightly is so funny to me. this pretty much sums up nowadays viewrs of this kind of shows, just shut it off man and watch She Hulk
y'all act like in times of war all of you will be all brave and bold and not incredibly cautious and resource conservatives like realistic people would be which is perfectly portrayed in this season lol. this is are realistic characters with realistic emotions, this aint some anime shit where everyone is magically emotionally hollow where they just go head on one dimensionally lelsz
I agree, the kiss idgaf, the plots being changed drastically like removing nettles are very bad decisions
I expect this video to pop off after people see the episode 8 finale...
It did lol
THANK YOU! finally someone stating this. Every other youtuber seem to be in love with this series, even the ones who hate on everything suddenly took a 180 turn with house of the dragon and I dont understan why, to me this series falls in the same category as rings of power or the acolyte, maybe slightly better.
Oh trust me, it’s nowhere near as bad as Wheel Of Time (TV series) or Rings Of Power. That’s not a high bar to jump, but they’ve definitely cleared it!!
I was enjoying the first season.......this one. started having problems......when they introduced blatant woke aspects......it genuinely broke the suspension of desbelief for me.......specially since i can't tell what is canon or not.
I reluctantly agree. I have liked a lot of the season, but sadly it's been a mixed bag. Some plot lines like Alicent's and Daemon's felt so aimless and repetitive.
Yes
While that Alicent floating in the lake moment was beautiful and symbolic
It wasn’t necessary
We already knew by that point that she was consumed by her expected role at court and that she secretly (wink wink) longed to be free like that bird above her. I mean we didn’t need to have that as a way to move the story forward. It was a waste
I feel like they try to add so many scenes to "provide depth" to a character, but it honestly just makes watching the series boring. I don't need to see Alicent fucking Criston Cole ten times to know it's happening, I don't need Daemon tripping balls at Harrenhall for 7 episodes to know it's happening. It's the kind of scene that comes up and your first reaction is "christ, not this again". So much time and effort that could have gone towards other more plot-important scenes, or just filling out scenes that we were completely robbed of (like the Battle of the Burning Mill, which was the first head on conflict during the Dance, and was practically skipped over).
@@politecat9207 The agenda has been very clear from the start of the show : make the viewers feel sympathy for Rhaenyra and Alicent by painting them as mistreated women manipulated by power hungry men. They are completely pushing aside the fact that both are ultra privileged princesses fighting a selfish war of power on the backs of smallfolks...
@@politecat9207 Don't forget this show bringing royal foot fetishes to the silver screen, and the dirty, manipulative men who are turned on by feet. I didn't need that.
@@vee1766 Yep. The fact that all the bloodshed could have been averted had one of these ultra-privileged princesses/Queens - who repeatedly claimed they wanted to avoid war - just abandoned their (family's) perceived right to the Iron Throne. The writers are trying to make them look sympathetic, but instead they just seem inconsistent, selfish and poorly written.
The extra scene with Reynese on her dragon facing the greens in the dragon pit was such a frustrating scene….
In that moment she could have stopped a war before it began.
Instead she just flies away lol
tbh it makes perfect sense to me. The war hadn't started. She had no way to know how the succession was going to be resolved, whether peacefully or not. At this point the Greens hadn't killed anyone or declared war, but somehow she's meant to just burn her kin alive without a care in the world, in case something may or may not happen? Isn't kin slaying the worst crime possible in this world? All she wanted was just to bust out of there because she was being held captive, but beyond that she had no reason to kill any of the Greens.
the writers are trying to make the female characters "boss babes" but instead just make stupid fcking decisions.
@@sennsita01they literally were holding her captive and keeping the king death a secret. It wasn’t a question what was about to happen. Also the whole point it made no sense for her to even be there.
Bad take, killing members of your own family is not something you do lightly. And it would have been a crime that demanded her own execution if Rhaenyra was to at all care about justice. Not to mention early enough a point that the secession devolving into a full on war was not inevitable.
@@evangelosvasiliades1204 It wouldn't have been considered a crime - Rhaenyra would take the throne without competition and it would have been considered heroic (victors write the history books, etc.). Besides, things that should have been considered crimes in this show only occasionally get punished. Cristin Cole beat a man to death in front of everyone for no apparent reason... and nothing happened. There are a lot of inconsistencies in this show.
S P O I L E R
Can we also please talk about how Rhaenyra just herds a bunch of people in front of Vermithor in episode 7? Like, wtf?
When rider comes to claim a dragon, it is an intimate ritual that only a couple of people attend to. Usually it is only a rider and a handful of Dragonkeepers to ensure that everything will go smoothly... You don't bring a crowd of people and tell the dragon: "Here, pick your favourite!"🤦
The moment I saw them standing there I thought "damn they're all gonna die except for the two characters meant to be accepted by the dragons".
Like imagine these people are all bastard children cast aside or tossed like garbage and have experienced a shitty life in most cases. And this "call" was their only chance to get something in this life but only for a select few.
The rest like before, got tossed or rather burned to a crisp or eaten by the dragon.
I really felt sorry for them. All sacrificial pawns. I get that she didn't want to hurt them but still it was pretty fucked up.
To me that shows incompetence as a leader and honestly she seemed a bit unhinged throughout that entire thing yet as usual the show doesn't frame her actions as a bad thing
@@MrFredstt This showed she was an actual Targaryen. She now has two extra dragons to use in the war and 50 less royal bastards to worry about. How did the show not frame it as a bad thing? Did you see her gaze during this whole scene? She knew they'd almost all die.
Well, that's why the guys who would usually participate in the ritual walked out and told her she was messing everything up. She knew the entire time she was doing something kind of sacrilegious, but it had also never been attempted before. It wasn't without consequence, and we saw before why it's usually quite a small audience in the first place...
Again, nobody in the show acknowledge that she did anything bad or even mention it to her. It is like it never happened. Fk these writers man.
Unfortunately the average casual viewer doesn't care about any of the stuff you mentioned so they will eat this up.
Like fat kid with cake.
except poeple who read the book said he got several basic facts wrong about the book.
@@AL-lh2ht Like what?
and righfully so? if the vast majority of people find the show enjoyable then it speaks to the quality of it 😂
@@sean9636not really , people gave transformers 2 billions of dollars
As good as the first season was, there were some clear signs that the writers tampering with the source material was going to create bigger problems going forward. The most egregious one being how they changed Team Green's impetus for seizing the throne. In the book (and even in the beginning of season 1), Alicent is motivated to seat Aegon on the throne to protect him and the rest of her children because she genuinely fears for their safety. Rhaenyra and Daemon kill Vaemond, Laenor (at least that's what everyone else thinks) and Lucerys took Aemond's eye without facing serious consequences. To Alicent, they were immune from any criticisms and would be willing to kill her children to solidify Rhaenyra's claim, which is an entirely understandable belief to hold in a medieval society where claimants regularly removed the competition to strengthen their own inheritance.
Instead of keeping that compelling motivation, the writers decided to have Alicent misinterpret Viserys' death rattle and kept emphasising that as The Greens' main claim on the throne. It makes them look incompetent and foolish, destroys Alicent's character because she's no longer working to keep her children protected and ruined any sympathy the general audience may have towards them by not elaborating on their motivations. Sure, Otto still wanted to install his bloodline on the throne and the lords alligning with them wanted to uphold a patriarchial legal order, but affording that motivation to Alicent gives them a bit more nuance than 'scheming villains hoping to steal Rhaenyra's birthright because they're inherently evil,' which is the trope they're heavily leaning into.
This still doesn't work because it is not believable...because of the writing. On what planet does a best friend choose to believe her bestie would kill her children? Because Rhaenyra lied about bedding Daemon? Something that was none of Alicent's business to begin with? Has Rhaenyra shown any homicidal tendencies...like ever? Even with Aemond losing an eye, the writers had to invent an alternate situation in terms of how the fight started, there was no four versus one. In F&B, Baela and Rhaena are not involved. It's Aemond vs, Luke and Jace after he slapped a three year old Joffrey, making him fall into a pile of manuer. They changed this to make Aemond not look like the psychopath he is. This is like D&D rewriting Ramsay Bolton, instead of being born a sadistic nut, we would see Ramsay being taunted by Roose Bolton, personally his entire life. Threatening to flay him alive for no apparent reason. Roose's bullying made Ramsey who he is. Um, no sir.
There is NO logical explanation for it. At all. All of the venomous animosity between her children and Rhaenyra's stem from HER side, not Rhaenyra's. She literally manufactured the hatred because she was bitter. She never truly feared Rhaenyra, she was angry that her former bestie was forced into an arranged marriage and still made the best out of her situation by having children with a man she actually liked and was physically attracted to. Had she truly feared her then she wouldn't have fucked with her after her marriage to Laenor. She and Criston Cole allowed Rhaenyra to live rent free in their heads while she isn't thinking anything about them.
Once Rhaenyra becomes Queen there wouldn't be any major altercations if they didn't start anything. The truth is the fact that the Green's started it! No one can deny that. They usurped Rhaenyra and later Aemond kills her son. This is why we are here. .
The last straw for me was the ease with which Alicent threw her sons to the chopping block. Made no sense. Inconsistent with her character
We waited 2 years for nothing
Jeez dude relax 😂
@@kairosmvr1900no, he’s right. Watch tonight’s “finale” episode and you tell me with a straight face he isn’t 1000% right. This writing and entire season is hot garbage and a disgrace to fans who waited 2 years for *This*
Aegon the Unlikely speaks truth, this was pitiful
@@kairosmvr1900worst shit I have seen
This comment is aging like fine wine. The season finale wrapped up a season of mostly nothing with more nothing. We got the one dragon fight, and not much else. Maybe next season some stuff will happen in more than one episode.
Can’t wait for the battle over the gods eye to be a 1 minute scene that immediately time jumps to rhaenyra learning about it and then instantly moving on with the plot
The only character that became really interesting this season is Aegon. The others are really meh!!
Agreed, he really became may favorite this season.
@Krit101w The episode 8 leaked and it seems they are keeping the same ending with him(Helaena's vision), which means he will do "the thing" to Rhaenyra🤭
Everytime I try to criticize the poor quality and biased pretentious nature of the writing. Someone calls me Daemon stan , book purist , mysogynist, racist and what not. 😂
Yea that is what they do these days ! It’s sad !
@@hc256 Exactly dude. Just because I love Daemon , Otto as characters doesn't mean I'll support them IRL. They're horrible people but let me have my fun with fiction.
Well are you? 😂
Can you help me understand why a dragon would stay put and starve, versus to roam and find food? Dragons have been enslaved for centuries and forced to exist in locations that could never produce food enough to sustain them (dragonstone, dragonpit) ... Even a territorial creature will migrate based on scarcity.
Also - as dragons have widly different phenotypes (outward physiological markers) it would seem that they differ in such a way that they may prefer different climates from each other
@@6Churches these are interesting assumptions/expectations for a magical creature that is totally made up, don’t you think? The creature does whatever it does Bc the story is made up.
Martin should focus on finishing his last 2 books
He's too busy with Elden Ring
People in HBO need to watch this
and ASAP!
This is why we needed more from season one instead of a five year time skip with every new episode 😅
They didn't have to rush it. For the five year time jump, they could've at least gave us one episode to know Harwin and Laena better
They shouldn't have shown it at all. We didn't need to see the stuff that happened before AGOT 1 to get a background. We didn't need to see the Greyjoy Rebellion, Cersei giving birth, Roberts Rebellion, etc to get what's going on in the story.
The writers are just mid
@@notsorry4735not true at all, YOU didn’t need it cause you read the books. You do need some backstory that game of thrones didn’t give to understand the show better
Excatly there’s was no development at all not it’s all going to shite
@@GiveonKing no, they pretty much dropped all of it during the show. Same for the books, we got basically all of it via dialogue. George didn't start AGOT with 20 chapters of the events leading up to it. We didn't have to take a history lesson before seeing any of it. We discovered more as time progressed.
Honestly. This season hasn’t been as good as the 1st. Something is off with the writing or the directing. The last two episodes especially were kind of bland.
Also just because the source material is a fictional history book, people have started to use it to defend literally anything. The standard response to any criticism about creative choices is "You dont know the book is written from the perspective of...." I know dude my goodness..we all read it several times.
I hate those comments so much
@@naoimleschadExcept the book plot is neither clean nor coherent and certainly doesn't make much sense. GRRM certainly didn't put much thought into this book compared to his main 5 books. ..
That non-argument also completely misses the point of the Dance of the Dragons - nobody really knows who was good/bad or if anyone could really be called good/bad, we just know a struggle for power caused the entire continent to bleed. By making Rhaenyra the tragic virtuous hero and the Greens the shady usurpers, it flattens the moral dynamic and the core themes of the story.
@@publiusventidiusbassus1232 they can use all that argument they want, but can't excuse they made the characters so unexciting and boring.
Then book might exaggerate some stuff but at least the characters are interesting, power hungry and each has their own agenda which makes sense in wartime. Now they dumb down the show lol
@@naoimleschad You put it brilliantly. This is fiction. That doesn't give you the option absolutely whatever nonsense you're coming up with.
I am pitying these people clinging to Mushroom's ridiculous rumors to prove Rhaenyra is bi. 😂😂😂 You guys are nuts.
Mushroom’s sick fantasy
@@synthamvs7624 Its a show about incest. Bisexuality is not disgusting like incest
@@SamHunt-o7d I’m talking about westerosi people
@@SamHunt-o7d I’m talking about in their world
@@SamHunt-o7d in westeros it is
There are stuff you didn't mention (Understandable because this was on YT before the season's finale aired) that can't be retconned.
Changing Helaena's character from the book has had extreme impact on the plot, not just regarding her character ...
I wouldn't be surprised if they made Rhaenyra fireproof when Sunfyre is commanded to burn her and she survives and runs off like Laenor Velaryon.
By vomiting this idea into the ether, you’ve made it more likely to happen. How very dare you.
That’s just nonsense btw aegon ordered his dragon to eat her there’s no confusing that
Her being fireproof and surviving dragon fire only to get eaten would be funny
if something, they better make her chomp proof...
Sunfrye is dead
I like the show overall but my biggest problem is that this all feels like "black vs white", "good vs evil" etc. Game of thrones has always (or at least in my eyes) been about showing both side. Each and every character is shitty and good in their own way (of course there are some who are jut shit bags or an entire house but there's usually good context behind it) which makes them feel just a tad bit real.
S1 did a good job in potraying both sides but this season I felt has leaned very heavily on Rhaneyras side being the good people, while there are some moments with other characters that show a more malicious side overall it feels very one sided.
Also I don't care what anyone says about the kissing scene it feels very VERY out of place, I don't care about affairs or same gender sex scenes happening in GOT but I do want it to make sense or to be hinted at. That kiss had 0 build up and the conversation that was being had in the moment also didn't help. I don't know what the director was thinking leaving that in.
Look ,e in the eyes and tell me if in the earlier seasons it wasn't starks good , lannisters bad
@@louyou6614 Lannisters was never showing us as incompetent foolish evil bad guys. Tywin still in top 3 of the best characters from the series.
P.s. at the end i really hated Starks.
@@louyou6614Tyrion Lannister.
Exactly, if 90% of the fanbase is team black that is a pretty good indication that they don't understand the moral point of the story
@Captain_Insano_nomercy I mean the more evil deeds of tb are yet to come
Rhaneyra canon's only becomes cruel after jace death
Coming to this video after the season finale and can confirm this video indeed did NOT age like milk.
I don't want to see actors or writers' ideology within fictional characters they didn't write. If you want to explore "girl power" and give 21th century message, do it with your own characters. I want to see that Rhaenyra in the books with her real flaws. Otherwise I would watch other garbage shows that explore "girl power." Thanks.
Edit: The thing is and I hate the most, just like the creator said, the writers are just filling in the gaps in the book. So matter how irrelevant their choices are, they can always find some stupid Mushroom quote and justify them.
I can sort of understand your point but didn’t Rhaenera end up doing stuff with beala in the book while in the show they made that relationship more motherly which would have made any sexual act really weird. Also I feel it could pay off, for all we know mysera is manipulating rheanera to eventually betray her like in the book. The biggest change is that of the bastards getting dragons which could affect a lot and is very different to what george wrote so we will see how that turns out. Also it shows rheanera still has flaws, she is uncaring of her responsibility to maintain the social norms of the people, she acts irrationally and doesn’t consider the consequences of her actions.
That moment could make sense, as long as its what it is a "moment" its not really a "girl power" thing when you have a tender moment with someone it could jump into a kiss(as long as there is attraction) if they make it a "plotline in the show then yes its forced but a kiss is not a "oh no its woke!" Thing
Rhaenyra kisses Mysaria because Rhaenyra wants to be Daemon and Daemon and Mysaria used to fuck.
@@amoscollin1751 To answer your question no Rhaenyra had no sexual relationship with another female in the book. At this point it is pointed out the princess had a desire for sweets and cakes more than physical urges apparently
What “girl power” are you referring to though? Or are you just repeating what you here other haters say?
Well put. I would also argue the pacing, though improved compared to season one, truncates a lot of time that could be used to explore character alongside the progression of the plot, as opposed to glimpses.
And the dialogue is pointless
Rhaenyra 3 scenes having the same answers "i can't do nothing, they stole my throne"
Corlys with the brothers COULD BE CUT AND YOU MISS NOTHING because they never Talk about the family OR ANYTHING
The dragonseeds in the first episodes are kinda pointless because they never show the personalities UNTIL NOW EPISODE 7 or SIX if you want we only meet them as info. In the episode 2 3
Yes, meaningful dialogue is very minimal in this season. Aemond has had like zero good dialogue scenes, his scene with Helaena in the throne room would’ve been a great exchange, but instead the writers opted for flare rather than substance.
Finally someone talking about Sapochnik leaving. I’ve been worried about this series ever since reading he left at the peak of praise for the show
why did they bunched up everyone in front of Vermithaor ? in the book they gone one by one with a cheep hoping that dragons will be sated or bored and accept the riders when they were fed.
because it's the shitty second season((
i also think it was a way to get rid of bastards that could potentially have a claim, maybe to ease Jace’s worries
@@summerwhittaker3638
Alicante and Rehnyra incompetently advance their house agenda. Let's hope these dragon seeds won't become too ambitious.
I’m just happy to see that people has finally stopped excusing this season. By the third episode I was over it
I honestly thought it was a pretty great watch till that third episode.
It's funny cus me and my mom were so excited about it and every sunday (the day it's shown here) we'd be on the edge of out seats waiting for the episode to start. That stopped after 3 episodes.
The slavish praise of this show is so irritating...it's refreshing to hear someone be critical of it.
Another big issue: female writers who are big time feminists. Sara Hess openly admitted hating Daemon’s character
can we just let sink in that most of these feminist writers cut their teeth writing fanfiction pornography as youths. This explains their writing style so well.
@@ghfudrs93uuu Really??? That’s just embarrassing
Has it not occurred to GRRM that screenwriters may have learned their attitude from his own ridiculous, lazy + frivolous failure to finish the project that *MADE HIS FORTUNE ?!!*
If he wants them to respect "integrity", he shouldn’t have covered for Benioff & Weiss right up to *(AND INCLUDING!! 🤬😡)* Season 8.
Those who *WANT* respect, *GIVE* respect!!
Yep, his ego got too large and now he's cheapened his entire works- serves him right, not enough writing, too much fandom adoration.
Who's here are episode 8 🙃
Great analysis! I love that you're able to openly criticize the things the show's doing wrong.
I appreciate your clarity. This video is fantastic.
GRRM already wrote a perfect story. All House of the Dragon and Game of Thrones had to do WAS FOLLOW HIS WRITINGS TO THE LETTER. This is why Big Books like GRRM's should be Animated. Give it all to Japan if the West can't do such a simple job.
Which writing would they follow to the letter in fire and blood? There’s Mushroom’s writing, the maester writer’s other writings, a septon. There’s conflicting stories. The show mostly makes sense, if you consider that fire and blood is written with historical bias and outright probably excludes things that don’t suit the source’s narratives.
Ehhh I thought the Blackfyre rebellion was a much better version of what the dance wants to tell.
Tbr the dance of dragons is a one of george WEAKEST story , it have a lot of issues
come on by definition you cant just straight up adapt fire and blood its made to be incomplete and condradictory. You can say they fucked up but dont act like they had an obvious path to follow
@@aguspuig6615 I'd say they did. Its clear both Rhaenyra and Aegon, just as the Blacks and Greens, had both virtue and sin in equal measure. They could play with the unreliable nature of historical retellings and the moral ambiguity of actions - instead they made one side way too good and the other way too seedy, while using the "unreliable nature of history" to highlight how unjustly maligned Rhaenyra is and how unethical the Greens are. Its an imbalance that misses the point.
30 years from now when you can just binge all 4 seasons people won’t complain about season 2
Of course not, because they'll skip it
Damn I didn't realize how much they messed up the lore by having dragons be nomadic and living in other realms outside of Dragonstone. Your completely correct, why can't other houses such as House Arryn just claim their roaming dragon? Martin already established one doesn't have to be of Valyrian descent to be a dragonrider.
Then the Celtigars should be claiming dragons as well, why doesn’t Rhaenrya get them to ride them. Nothing makes sense here
Because people regularly get burned trying to do that. Dragons are known to eat people (and Valyrians).
2 main reasons.
A - Politics: Dragons are a monopoly for House Targaryen used to give them the right to rule. It's why they restrict access to dragons from everyone, even Valyrians like Celtigars and Velaryons (Rhaenys was a special case). It's really important to remember that there are legit 5 generations of Targaryens with only 1 actually making a system and cult around it. If the Arryns or anyone else claimed a dragon without Targaryen permission, the Targaryens would be on their ass in a heartbeat. This is what the show and books are dealing with already.
B - In-Universe Understanding of Dragons: Does anyone besides the Targaryens know how to claim and control dragons without dying? No. So why would they try? Especially as everyone in universe believes only Valyrian Dragonlords can do it. We know that one doesn't have to be of Valyrian descent and the dragons died before the hypothesis could be tried out, in-universe characters don't. There is a reason GRRM has the Celtigars, Velaryons, Volantis, Lys, etc - to show the political and magical reasons as to why none of them can't sneak in to Dragonstone ever since the Doom to claim a dragon even though by simple logic, they should be able to just on being Valyrian.
Simply making one dragon nomadic isn't breaking the lore. Honestly if GRRM wanted to, he could make this work in universe, especially as he did write about different types of dragons existing. He's just nitpicking, it was never that serious. I hate the decision to cut out Nettles but many fans are mixing up in universe understanding with their own headcanons from a history book that was very shallow in character depth that allowed for insane projection and the main books whose dragon focused character is basically starting from scratch when it comes to training dragons.
it has never been established that non targs can claim a dragon. There are multiple hints in the books that blood magic was involved to bond a dragon with a human. Nettles is also speculated to be a targ bastard. The show is nearly not as bad as the people here making it to be. In future, if they fuck these plotlines cause of their mishaps, then okay. As of now, it's still not that bad yet.
@@PrimeTasteTester30 God is speculated to exist. There's no evidence for it though. There's no evidence that nettles is a dragon seed, therefore unless you're resorting to a faith based argument she is not one. Given the other dragon seeds are all known to be bastards nettles being different suggests she is not one.
Yeah, I can’t defend this show anymore. It’s just not good.
Wasnt there a time George Martin complained about "toxic fans" , who were upset about things like changing the authors vision making a different story that was not an improvement to the original or frequently ignoring internal logic ? They do it to him and suddenly he has an epiphany but doesnt acknowledge and apologize.
Yea he called LOTR fans toxic for not happily eating the Diarrhoea that was ROP simply because it had LOTR and Tolkiens name plastered on it. Did the same with Star wars fans for not eating disney Star wars Diarrhoea either.
George wants everybody besides himself to tell his story. He neglects his book, green lights a spin off, withholds vital information about the story then complains when the show runners get that vital information wrong or neglect it.
He could easily have told them that dragons wouldn’t fly around the eyrie alone. The reason why he didn’t is because he said that idea and the nature of dragons and targs will be fleshed out in later books, specifically Winds of winter. A book which was promised over 13 years ago, a book which seems more and more likely that he doesn’t intend to ever release at all if you go off of his most recent blog posts.
@@akeelyaqub2538 I dont believe he will ever finish Winds of Winter which he kept saying over the years would be done soon. Then he would have to complete ASOIaF with he says one other book but the way he keeps adding stuff that might be wrong too.
@@akeelyaqub2538 you are so right!
it’s frustrating that Martin is mad that “Hollywood” is taking his stories and making it their own, he did the same thing with Beauty and the Beast (starring Linda Hamilton and Ron Perlman) did he not change the original story?!
That’s very hypocritical of him.
Also if he was really concerned then he should write the scripts himself. He could even put that as a condition in his contract. GOT season 1 episode 1 was written by him. Later on he became busy with other side projects when he won’t even sit down with the writers. He kept saying he just wants 4 seasons with 10 episodes each (that’s 40 hours) for one book!
Lord of the Rings 3 books were 3 movies (2 hours and 58 mins film for Book 1
2 hours and 59 mins film for Book 2
3 hours and 21 mins film for Book 3) and all the time he wants 40 hours for his one book (Fire and Blood)!?
OMG Martin really is too much!
@@estheraida5101 not only that but GOT season 1 actually had new scenes not from the books that improved the characters a lot more and added way more to them. George himself even said earlier scenes in earlier seasons made him wish he wrote them into the books. He also said the show did Osha better than he did, as well as Robb and Robert baratheon. So his comment about writers never being able to do better than the source material conflicts with his own statements about game of thrones and its characters.
Every time anyone takes liberties on whatever source material it never seems to work. It always feels off
Modern writers think they are so smart, that they can improve the source material, wich of course they very rarely can.
It worked very well with "The Boys".
The show is way way superior to its comic book source material.
The office us is not better than office UK but is its own thing and fantastic in its own right. This show just has shit writers.
how many times did we get the same scene where man is saying something stupid at the meeting and woman is good
Every episode I think
I didn't realize that it was Emma d'arcey's idea to have the kiss. Sounds more like a predator than an actor...
Exactly, this ridiculous FEAR of questioning Woke culture has to Stop.
If Matt did that, Hess since we are already aware dispises/is intimidated by stong male leads, he would be fired. I'm a chick, not understanding why S2 Daemon is purposely being butchered.
I knew it it was Emma idea and she says she has husband😂😂😂😂
Of course it was the rainbow girl
Don’t get me wrong I truly enjoy this show, and I have no problem with the Greens being the “the villains” of the story. But this adaptation is not favorable of the Greens. I feel like it at times they go out of their way to demonize them.
What made the Dance so interesting and tragic. Both sides were fucked up and both have legitimate and faulty reasons for starting a civil war that kicked started the collapse of their dynasty. But this isn’t a balanced adaptation at all, like I said. I still find it highly enjoyable and entertaining, but it’s definitely not equal with the character portrayals.
They have simplified, whitewashed and water down so many characters, particularly Rhaenyra and her fraction to the “the good guys” The Greens are the evil, unredeemable villains, who deserve no empathy or humane moments.
The books themselves were written by Maesters who were Team Green and pro Hightower. George himself said the accounts of the book are unreliable it doesn't take much to figure out the Maesters would water down and whitewash team Green and demonise the opposing side Team Black
They're trying to make Team Black "Dumbledore's Army" of quarky misfits
@@cbeaudry4646 😂😂Good take, I think you might be on to something.
I don't even find it enjoyable. I guess people do, in same as they found season 7 of GoT enjoyable.
@@aliensconfirmed3498lol this is better than season 7 stop smoking crack
My issue is not that Season 2 was a filler season, but they did not even do that right. Lack of character development, repetitive scenes and really being overt in pushing themes that an intelligent audience should be able to decide the merit of on their own volition. They need to be held accountable, with such a short run time there was no time to drag out some of these arcs. The war is about to begin and there is literally no reason anyone would be rooting for the Greens.
I agree with EVERYTHING stated here... Especially stick to the source material, AND MAKE SURE THAT YOU HAVE THE BUDGET TO DO SO.
I really love this guy's logic and how he articulate things. He'll be huge one day.
The big writing problem Martin must be worried about is "Winds of Winter"
He's too fat and rich to write. Only fat broke people care enough to follow through
Exactly, he is the last one to be talking about writing problems
@@shaunsmith7503 That makes no fucking sense, morons.
Someone had to talk about these... Thank you!
this Whole team green team black stupidity , while i get it good for advertising . it gives the Twilights team jacob team edward ass vibe
Can we get some writers that don’t all come from California? I’m feeling a huge lack of cultural diversity here.
most writers are not from california.
@@AL-lh2ht yeah the only thing i learned from that comment, is i can now successfuly guess 90% of comment OP;s political views from that 1 comment alone.
@@mrsswindon How are you guessing 90% from one comment?
Need to go back to math class
@@AL-lh2ht Do you not get what the OP is implying? It’s not literal, they’re saying that all of these Hollywood writers are shmucks with politely agendas
@@synthamvs7624 yes i can confidently say i can guess 90% of their opinion from that statement. yours as well judging from your other comment. Blah blah blah what are your thoughts on the term woke?
Watching this after martin new blog post. This make more sense now specially the way you explain butterfly effect
Its an adaptation, but that should not be used as excuse to go off the rails. This is fair criticism but at least the product still of acceptable quality. Unlike most crap out there nowadays
is it acceptable quality? In the first episode of season 2, the mother has to show the assassins which of her children is a boy, and which a girl. Im instantly kicked out of immersion. Just put your hands in one of the kids pants and see if theres a pepe or not... Why bother with that whole 'is she saying the truth?' thing when you can be certain in much less time. Time is rather of the essence when you had sneaked into the queens chambers. It was far from epic, it was just absurd, and it wasnt the last time, there is just more and more of it. This show makes me feel like im watching the walking dead all over again, and that was so terrible ive given up during the 4th season. Im not gonna watch the next season. Imo house of the dragon is much worse than the final season of GoT.
People must have found GoT season 7 acceptable too and I bet they would have said same about season 8 if Jon Snow killed Night King and eventually sat the throne.. even if rest of the season was just as horrundous.
@@mac19999x house of the dragon season 2 has far better dialogue than season 8. Are we watching the same show?
A large proportion of the source texts for the modern franchises were written during a time where writing extended letters by hand was a nearly universally cultivated skill. Modern screenwriters when not writing for a job, use their skills with the English language as do most of us, for texts, emails and twitter posts. You can't fully train for combat with a wooden sword.
Syrio Forel would like a word. And he’s definitely not dead at all at all at all. ⚔️😉
Starting the show at the middle of the book was a bad idea from the get go.
Hmmm, the show is about the dance tho, fire and blood is 150 years of timeline, i think starting a bit earlier would have been better but still, doing it all from the start would be a hard task
The reason storytelling in television has deteriorated so much is that shows like this exist increasingly to serve as vessels of social engineering and less as a medium for authentic storytelling.
There have been writing problems with the show since season 1. Everyone knows this and we’re just making excuses for them. They’re mediocre TV writers who ruin stories for their pride, they think they’re worth something anywhere near the actual author UGH
This video ages really well
What consumes me is: THEY HAVE THE COMPLETE HISTORY! THEY HAVE THE BOOK
🤓☝🏽 actually that’s maester propaganda and shouldn’t be taken into consideration
@@gobomladikk5197cancerous comment
Apparently the book is "Green propaganda", according to Ryan Condal.
Rhaenys' badass death is "green propaganda".
Daemon getting all of the Riverlands to kneel with ease is green propaganda.
Rhaenyra's triumph over taking KL.
Jace being an incredible diplomat and getting two of the largest kingdoms in all of Westeros over to their side.
All of these things that make the Blacks look great are all "green propaganda" according to the showrunner.
@@gobomladikk5197 hi Ryan Condal, your show sucks
The whole "writers...eager to take the story and improve and improve on it" makes my blood boil. It doesn't matter how many times this is proven wrong, writers' and producers' hubris never seems to let up. Hundreds of thousands, if not millions of fans fall in love with a story - then here come the egos thinking they know better than, not just the fans, but better than the author's. It makes me want to do a Meleys Dragon roar right in their faces.
Man this hits hard after the finale
Emma D'arcy as Rhaenyra was a mistake
I’m not a fan of the team black vs team green. When they literally favorite team black. It’s basically like there’s no point in it.
Very good work. Can not wait for your review of the entire season and show as a whole
That moment of Rhaenys bursting through the floor started the signal of this show's downfall. Before that, it was solid. That's why I can fully agree when people say season 1 was so good. The first half was really good. The later parts, especially the last two episodes were mixed.
I don’t feel bad for George. The seed was planted back when he praised the race swap of the Valarions. That alone has made the plot fall flat. Because the Valarions don’t look like they belong with the Targs. It has the effect of making the Strong bastards look less out of place by comparison. If they casted it as per the canon and you had this gathering of the families where silver hair and pale skin and eyes and sharp features are everywhere in evidence, except on the 3 strong boys, the impact of Rhenyra’s actions, her infamy, would be so clear and we’d understand better just how scandalous the situation is. Instead, it all turns on their hair colour? That may be enough with 2 monoracial people, but That’s not enough for interracial union when the Valarions are so obviously wearing bad wigs and Daemon’s daughters look nothing like him and Baela also has common features with no hint of her white as snow father, or her biracial mother. Worsened by the utter lack of chemistry between Damon and the alleged daughters. It makes the story feels unreal, the society feels unreal, the stakes feel unreal. The entire game of thrones started because of a woman’s incest and adultery bore 3 children to a king who looked nothing like him or any of his ancestors in similar pairings. The race swap was a major ball fumble, and I can’t see how George could not have known that. I think rather, that he knew and feared to speak truthfully. Pandering. I’d feel bad for George if he’d been honest then, but now? The dye is cast, finish your books since you’ve received every sign that the story you’re trying to tell is too backwards for modern screen writers and audiences.