The Downfall of House of the Dragon | Season 2 Analysis
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- In depth analysis of House of the Dragon Season 2. Is House of the Dragon Season 2 Bad?
House of the Dragon Season 2 just ended, and to be honest, it was a huge disappointment. Overall, the writing was all over the place and had a lot of other problems which made me think those criticisms about the show were spot on, even the ones from George R. R. Martin himself.
For many people, the biggest issue was after all those build-up, the season finale had no pay-off. And considering the fact that we waited almost two years for it, that made it even worse. But for me, the problems with the season were far more fundamental.
For example, the portrayal of the Blacks in a much more positive light while turning the Greens into almost villains of the story, Alicent's character assassination, Daemon's repetitive storyline and even all those filler scenes with underdeveloped side characters.
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“Hey guys, I know this is supposed to be a complex story with grey characters but the patriarchy is bad and Rhaenyra can do no wrong. Also, Alicent is a great person for willing to give up her son.”
"I mean, sure, Rhaneryra and Alicent might be ultra privileged, rich, white, pretty, self centered royals fighting a pointless war for power that destabilize the entire land and cost the life of thousands, mostly low born people... but hey they are women so it's all good, slay queens"
yeah like seriously, are we supposed to root for her?
Good thing there was no social media on westeros. Imagine people who fought for both sides found out the two figure head that they thought were arch-enemies are in fact besties behind the close doors. 😂😂😂😂😂@vee1766
I'm confused. Is that supposed to be the writers perspective or the audience. Because I feel like it's the audience saying "Rhaenyra can do no wrong," while simultaneously listing story points that show she can do wrong.
YASSS SLAAAYYY 🎉😂
Correction: writers want to see Rhaenyra and Alicent together, not the audience.
writers said that the audience want to see them together
@@morgoth4962the writers only listens to the Twitter audience, not the majority of the audience, who just wants a good, coherent story.
The writers and the weirdos on twitter that ship them together.
🎯🔥🔥🔥🔥💯 Bingo “House of the DEI”👀🔎🧐
@@rebelwolfofmibu yes, House Blackrock is very pleased with the show’s “development”.
I couldn't agree more. I think the writers really think they can do better than George R. R. Martin himself.
Which is what he called out in that blog post about adaptations.
I think Martin himself would struggle to adapt it to screen. Most of his show and film adaptations are crap.
@@J_ads2000 It's not his job anyway.
@@J_ads2000 didn't he write several of the best GoT episodes?
HBO writers have a god-complex that causes them to repeatedly murder shows by making changes to source material.
"Let's get Alicent and Rhaenyra in the same room again...and again"
I wont be suprised if they made them F next season 😂
@@sabgogo7393 lol might as well at this point
Would be hot as fuck but it would be really bad for the story
@@lumarrandom8144 man porn ruined our generation
Technically in the book they are in the same room
But they Skip the part when she invades Kingslanding 😂😂😂😂
Does anyone else find it strange that Aemond feels remorse for killing Luke, a bastard who took out his eye, but doesn't express any guilt over Helaena's son being murdered as retaliation for Luke's death? It was just one of many huge missed opportunities this season.
Even Heleana doesn't care anymore, because kids die all the time🤦♀️
@SofiaByrsan God, I hated that fucking scene. The amount this show sweeps for the Blacks is maddening
Aemond feels remorse for Halaena's son .Why should he feel guilty though ? He didn't kill him .
@spiekd He doesn't. Aemond doesn't mention Helaena's son at all, not even when he tries to convince her to come with him to Harrenhall. He should feel guilty because Jaehaerys was murdered as revenge for Aemond killing Luke. If Aemond did not go after Luke, Helaena's son would still be alive.
Also, he regrets killing Luke but has no problem murdering his brother
Alicent: "cOmE wItH mE" 🤡🤡🤡
audience: **d13s from cringe**
House of the Euphoria (2024)
I still don't understand what Alicent really meant when she said "Come with me."
Viserys s1 clearly bad king and father
Viserys mentioned in s2 as Good and smart
She wanted Rhaenyra to run away with her so they could be lovers, essentially. @@hemanthkapavarapu8380
@@hemanthkapavarapu8380 In Season 1, under the weirwood tree, they talked about traveling around the world together, you know- 'away from the patriarchy'. Some viewers interpreted this as a lesbian moment, and this scene confirmed that interpretation, Alicent is taking up on her offer but it's too late. 🤮 Why didn't they explore this more in season 1...
It's cowardice, simple as that, pathetic cowardice. They were worried about how people would react to a show centered around two villainous, power hungry women acting like cruel and ruthless tyrants so they decided to put all the bad stuff they do in the books unto the men around them instead and turn the women into victims while they were at it. And you can see it from the very beginning of the show, season 2 just amplifies it. It's never, EVER directly Rhaneryra or Alicent's fault.
I've never viewed Alicent and Rhaenyra as victims though? They both have done terrible things in the show
The previous show was criticized for having the final two antagonists on the show, being two women. It's screamed 'women shouldn't rule'.
@@rsync9490 Listen to yourself, then that means every other work where the antagonist is a dude means "men shouldn't rule". That makes most shows a critique on male rule.
@NTNG13 My point stands: If you are going to show the audience an example of a poor female leader, you must also show an example of a decent or great female leader. It's not unusual that male antagonists are the foils of male protagonists, so an example of a poor male ruler and a prodigious male ruler is very common in these stories. Sansa, an average schemer who begs her brother for independent rule, is not an example of a competent female ruler. Every other female ruler bit the dust, and it wasn't Sansa who took these women out.
@@rsync9490 You don’t need to show the audience anything because you are not trying to teach the audience anything. You’re trying to entertain them with a good story.
The fragile minds who complain about things like this are the minority for a reason.
"kinda forgot..." when it comes to the ASOIAF universe, those words give me PTSD.
Hilarious
D&D adapted GOT well . But they just wanted to do other things and gave up . The first seasons had alot of non-book canon scenes that made love the show . But HOTD writers are just not good
@@sabgogo7393The first four seasons were PEAK GOT! That's no discussion.
Sometimes i just pretend Seasons 7, 8 and even 5 and 6 didn't happen at all 😂😂😂
Apparently, HotD showrunners' is to make us forget how bad the end of GoT was
@@luciotargino5187 i really think D&D would do waay better with fire and blood . if they cared like they did with the early GOT .
@@sabgogo7393lmaoooo is that you David Benioff?!? 😂
No way on God's green earth did you just say they would have done a better job. Lmaoooo they didn't even understand the lore at all. Ryan Condal is literally knee deep in all of it and understands the story in ways D&D never could. Wow. Just wow, actual D&D apologists. Crazy. They avoided the magic of the book series at every turn and in HOTd we're getting old gods shenanigans and THE GREEN MEN
And for the record, season 2 of HOTd wasn't perfect but it had some damn good dialogue at certain moments and you can tell writing for ten episodes then last minute having to change the format to 8 probably didn't help either.. it wasn't perfect but you also didn't get these ridiculous exposition dumps and penis jokes every 3 lines like we got with D&D towards the end... What they did to Euron alone is enough to make me think they had no clue wtf they were doing. House of the dragon encapsulates the world much more even compared to old GOT
2:30 - It's good to know that even Olivia Cooke was baffled by Alicent's characterization.
Nah, i don't believe it one bit. Those actors have WAY more power than you imagine, they more often than not play a significant part in those "rewriting" of characters. That's what happened with GoT already with Maisie Williams and Sophie Turner using their new influence and popularity to ruin Arya and Sansa by turning them into ridiculous cliché girlboss.
@vee1766 If that is the case, why would she say she was confused about how they wrote the character? If she agreed with the direction they went and thought it was good, wouldn't she praise it?
@@vee1766 They have some power - at least some of them do. But that was also after several seasons already in GoT. They would have been hard to replace by that point. If they'd tried to change things after S1 or S2 it'd have been harder for them to argue when they might still potentially be replaced.
But then recall what happened in S8 as one character after another was butchered. Pretty much no one was happy during the readings of the Scripts that have been leaked/released. Maybe Arya and Sansa (their actors) were pleased, but no one else was. Varys was appalled. So were Jon and Dany. Littlefinger certainly was too. Do you think Littlefinger wanted to go out like that? Do you think Roose Bolton would have wanted to die hugging his son that he'd never have hugged in his life? Those actors were all powerless to stop what happened to their characters. Even Dany couldn't stop what happened to her. Amelia Clarke was powerless even as arguably the most powerful actor in the entire show. She was allowed to stop doing n*de stuff but not allowed to have her descent into madness make any kind of sense or be in any way compelling or satisfying.
@@vee1766 Did it look like Conleth Hill or Aidan Gillian or even Emilia 'Now That I have Made It Big I will No Longer Put My Melons Out There' Clarke had a lot of control over the directions their characters took in S7 and S8?
I came in as a book reader expecting to fill the GAPS in the story, detailing the time skips and choosing at each juncture the version that sat best with them.
Instead they've altered it to the point that I'm not even sure why they chose to do this story AT ALL, clearly they don't like the original characters, nor the complexity of the succession crisis. They've no desire to explore the depth of the errors of primogeniture nor the problem with giving children NUKES.
This feels, already, like bad fan fiction. They've lost me already.
Lol wtf...Aemond literally burns a town and murdered his cousin by accident the season before, "dragons being a power we don't understand "is one of the cruxes of the story so that alone makes you kinda wrong or just it flying over your head..in other words, COPE
Just mentioning it without showing it still counts as bad writing
@@hez859Dragons not being able to be controlled is horseshit, the onus in the books lies on the riders not the dragons for the bad things that are done.
Honestly, they could have just done a version of F and B, utilizing all it's ambiguity and hidden realities by use of clever writing
I mean imagine this:
Tyrion narrates the story because he's reading the in-world history book by Gyldane. Now he isn't literally going line by line, but occasionally Dinklage is coming in and giving context or his opinion on a certain outcome. For example he outlines all the possible rumors of who killed the Strongs and maybe he says what he believes really happened. Idk. Just feel like that would be fun and at least keeps to the lore
@hez859 In the book, it is Aemunds rage. He 100% goes to kill his cousin after being aggravated.
In the show, it is an accident. He's laughing and tormenting him and even can be heard shouting at vhagar to stop.
The difference is very important for the characterisation.
I’m so glad you included that take on the scene from Olivia Cooke. It makes me feel validated that even some of the actors felt off about the way the show is going
Alicent obviously remembers all the scenes about her kids
The writers not
Sara Hess turned this story into a lesbian love story and ruined it.
I'm pretty sure she is the writer who said that Alicent represents female Trump supporters. I know most books are inspired by real life events like The Hunger Games and Dune but unlike those books, the complexity of Fire & Blood was sacrificed in pursuit of sending a biased political message.
No one side is perfect and the more flawed the characters are, the more real the story feels whereas in this instance the writer is saying everyone who supports someone like Alicent is evil when in history that's never the case
Man you aren’t lying. Like the mysaria stuff was super awkward and forced. I will honestly say Alicent and Rhaenyra seems more plausible but not to the point where Alicent would give up every male in her family plus her lover just have a girls trip with Rhaenyra.
@@ashleyelisabeth4Amazing how writers keep putting those Trump allegories in shows, wtf is happening to writing?
I thought the actresses just wanted to?
@@Yamaazaka are you by chance one of those simpleton who send threat's to Joffrey's actor because "he's evil" and "he wants to destroy everyone in the story" ?
Rhaenyra complaining about not having being taught warfare because of the patriarchy, while refusing to listen to the opinions of the council (that is there for that specific reason) was so funny
She said this line in episode 10 season 1: My father prepared me to rule. The writers seems to have forgotten about that as well.
@@user-jr9bu7em8s
Well, YEAH, cos her dad, a stinky evil bad wrong dirty no good MAN, taught her, the most powerful and independentest woman ever! We can’t have that!
-these hack writers
The saddest part is that Olivia Cook and Emma D'Arcy would have been incredible to play the darker version of their characters.
It's Tyrion all over again. They don't wan't characters to become ruthless or evil but they keep adapting material from the books that are clearly going in that direction.
I don't think that's Tyrion. It's really the battle of the two queens again with dumb and dumber writing it.
@@attiepollard7847Nah, you can shit on D&D all you want, but at least they KNEW how to work with material.
@@arrasectum earlier D&D brilliant but later on D&D without any books to work with horrible. At least they would have done a better job with the blood and cheese strain line and would have given us our own version of the Red wedding.
@@attiepollard7847 It is Tyrion. Instead of showing the Tysha reveal at the end of Season 4 and have him go on a darker path they just cut all of that.
We see the same thing happening with how they whitewashed Rhaenyra and butchered Alicent.
@@Ducky-vl7mp because of one exception. It's already established Tyrion doesn't want to go evil plus I believe the writers were just too focused on other characters to work with
Will rheanarya even get eaten by sunfyre ? Or will they have her die some heroic death that makes no sense
I wandered if they would let their lead actress be eaten by a dragon.
I don't see them doing that to this rheanyra. She's probably die fighting aegon in the sky of dragonstone being cool
@@juliusfishman7222lame
Aegon in his bed said my dragon is dead... like WHAT? No he's not. Sunfyre is still alive in the books after the battle of Rook's Rest. What's going on here....
At this point I wouldn't be surprised if they have her beat sunfyre in a one vs one combat scene
Men=bad
Women=good
This is the show in a nutshell
Quest for power needs choices to be made and inherently hurts people in the process. Men or women don’t matter. That should be the story.
Yaaaaassssss😂
I wish this was just meme, but you nailed it.
The showrunners see women as morally superior; therefore, they can be either victims or heroes.
I've never read the book, so I don't have any bias towards the source material. And I still had Alicent as my favorite character in S1: a mother, an IMPERFECT mother who cares about her children and is willing to fight to protect them, with a sense of duty in her own way.
However, even in Season 1 they refused to make Alicent go all out on her game and chose to make her submit to the "Aegon's Song" BS Viserys whispered...
At Season 2, finally, she is not there. I tried to find that Alicent from the "Driftmark" scene, but I couldn't...
Alicent was
@@luciotargino5187then I honestly think you have misunderstood her character. I have never gotten the impression that Alicent cared about any of her children.
+ black cast for some reason
Cersei: " Why don't you trust me like you trust your sons?"
Tywin: "I don't mistrust you because you're a woman. I mistrust you because you're not as smart as you think you are."
From GoT season 4. A scene like that would NEVER happen in HotD.
A woman feeling oppressed over her gender, but having that viewpoint challenged rather than validated? A man slamdunking an argument with a woman? Unthinkable with Sara Hess on the team.
Tywin had no filter
@@frankvandorp2059 Sarah Hess Rewrite
Cersei: Your sons are fools like you, I am my mother’s daughter.
Tywin: *place quill down* I’m listening
Cersei: Who shall lead the pride when the lions are unworthy? the lioness has claws as well!
Tywin: Okay, you’re my heir!
That was a good scene, and definitely missing from hotd. But tywin could've taught her to be smarter. people never blame tywin for how cersei came out or robert for how joffrey came out.
@@errorsinconduct I disagree with that, I think people generally agree that Tywin's main fault was the way he messed up his children, which probably is going to undo his entire legacy.
Mysaria- "Lemme trauma dump real quick, my dad is a butt-head"
Rhae-Rhae- "OMG I'm so sorry that happened to you for real"
*out of nowhere kissing scene*
These two characters had zero romantic chemistry and didn't share a scene together until 4 episodes ago. Their kiss and romantic interest makes no sense and I feel inclined to say that if rhaenyra was a man in that scene and used someone's gratuitous SA survival trauma story as a way to steal a kiss, that scene would be viewed for what it really is, out of place and pretty slimy.
Fan fiction inserts and a plot that has ground to a halt.
Praise THE MESSAGE, ALL HAIL THE MESSAGE!
That scene was actually improved lmaoo
@@arrasectumwhich explains why the scene is so sh*tty and why they never addressed it in the next episode.
Remember when in GOT Tyrion says he should have known his first wife was a prostitute? Because he had “saved” her from rapers, and yet she rushed into his bed right afterwards.
And yet in this scene, the same thing happens. Horrible horrible incest rape story, and 20 seconds later… we’re horny? Sorry but I don’t buy it.
and i hate how it was so unnecessary and didn't change shit in the plot cz both just continued their life as it never happened
@@khfan4life365 That scene was out of nowhere, mainly a bribery gaslighting excuse to brush aside the fact that Rhaenyra was groomed by her own uncle.
The showrunners made me hate Rhaenyra 😂
Man, If that is a super villain in the story, that's her...
She refused to choose a good mariage, what was her duty as princess and heir to the throne;
She allowed herself to be seduced by Daemon and got Cole to break his vows, alienating Alicent in the process;
She married to Laenor and failed to have a son with him, and could not help but to have not one, not two but three bastards stupidously different from the Velaryons. This managed to endanger her reputation, driving some lords even further from her circle and weakening her own claim to the throne, considering her heir would obviously be questioned further down the line;
She orchestrated the "death"/exile of her husband in order to marry Daemon, after realizing how weak her situation was because she broke contact with Kings Landing and her own father for years;
She happily sent ordinary people to be burned by Vermithor and smiled;
She demanded Alicent to give up all her sons, while pretending her words didn't lead to the death of a small child in her bed...
WITH ALL THUS, showrunners will never make her accountable for the bad things that happen. It's always somebody else's fault...
Ah, yes. She also demanded that Aemond, as a teen, was "sharply questioned" to say who told him the "lies" that her sons were bastards.
HINT: She knew it was no lie and the boy had just lost one eye...
House of the Dragon has issues - the writers' ego.
There is no way in hell I would see my enemy face to face, within earshot of my guards and not take her prisoner. No freakin way. Absolute stupid writing. The entire story is about these two women not wanting to pull the trigger on each other.
Can't even put into words how much I hate what they done with Alicent's character, it's ridiculous
GRRM is cursed to have his work written over with has been who think they can improve upon his work to fit with the modern audience. Got was understandable bad ending without guide from the books, but HoTd is unforgivable butchering of his work.
Yeah I’m really annoyed that they have the entire perfect story right there they literally just have to fill in the details and instead they’re switching the plot up for no reason. Characters getting cut out of the show is my biggest complaint, Nettles not existing is insane.
Also changing side characters to make them less interesting. I was excited for Alys Rivers, who was a manipulative, seductive, and petulant bastard of house strong. A witch who possessed great powers and her own agenda. But instead they made her Daemons bestie? Why do all the women in this universe get there morally dark characteristics erased? That’s literally sexist. Women are everything men are including human. Which means they have their own ambitions, and make evil choices sometimes.
Poor guy and it's so much more painful when you realise GRRM is the one who hired Rayan condal and they presented it to HBO
Maybe he could finish his book series to have a lasting legacy for his stories besdies s8 GoT and this shite
The reason is because the show runners see Alicent and Rhaenyra as victims of a patriarchal society, and are writing them as two women trying to navigate a patriarchal Westeros!
That’s what they mean by “two women trying to figure it out”
Hence, because they are written as “victims” the show runners see them as the protagonists of the show and can’t have them actively taking responsibility or being the main catalysts for the war. That’s why Rhaenyra is so indecisive and that’s why Alicent gets sidelined by the “males” on the Green Council.
Alicent and Rhaenyra have to meet up in Episode 3 and Episode 8 becaus the show runners are writing them to eventually gang up against the oppressive patriarchy.
In the show runners minds, victims need to team up against their oppressors (patriarchal Westeros). Hence, Alicent has to support Rhaenyra’s claim and give up her male children as that’s the right thing to do to end the patriarchy.
Sadly, this is not the story of Fire and Blood that GRRM wrote. It’s nonsensical that the show runners are doing this.
Man pursuing the throne at all costs = evil, tyrant
Woman pursuing the throne at all costs = good always
Alicent shielding Aegon from Meleys was literally the only thing that was good about that terrible dragon scene in episode 9 of season 1. And now they have managed to retroactively ruin that too by retconning Alicent's character.
dude, she was willing to give up on her son daeron who literally hasnt even appeared yet
Alicent kinda forgot that her BROTHER and LOVER are fighting under Aegon’s banners
The only lives that matter to her are her daughter and grandaughter's. I mean women gotta band together right? Forget the men, even the innocent one who've yet to join the battle and probably only forced to out of duty and loyalty to his dumbass family. Gosh, I already feel bad for Daeron.
Season 2 felt like a trailer for season 3, nothing more.
I don’t think season 3 will be any better. I have a sick feeling that it will be a lot worse. There are illogical narrative choices that the writers just can’t fix (Alicent betraying her male family members to their deaths, Helaena comforting her son’s killer, etc). George jumping ship does not make season 3 look promising.
"There are illogical narrative choices that the writers just can’t fix", exactly what ruined Game Of Thrones in the long term, they keep making changes they think are inconsequential but n reality slowly turn the story into something else entirely...
I don't think either of those examples are illogical narrative choices that can't be fixed.
1) **BOOK SPOILER** We know that when Rhaenyra captures King Landing, Aegon has already been smuggled out of the city by Larys. When Alicent surrenders the Red Keep, Rhaenyra has her imprisoned. While there is never any reported secret negotiations between Alicent and Rhaenyra in Fire & Blood, that doesn't imply that the HotD depiction is dramatically changing the story. In fact, given the closeness between Alicent and Rhaenyra depicted in the show, the scene where Alicent agrees to hand over Aegon in exchange for peace actually might lay the television seeds of the breakdown in the relationship. When Rhaenyra sacks the capitol and finds that Aegon has fled, a natural assumption on her part will be that Alicent helped him escape knowing that Rhaenyra is committed to taking his head. This perceived manipulation by Alicent could easily be the television basis for Rhaenyra finally treating Alicent as her enemy. In other words, Alicent willing to give up Aegon, while a departure from the "historical" record (which wouldn't haven't necessarily been known to anyone outside of Alicent and Rhaenyra) is already being unknowingly undermined by Larys sneaking Aegon from the city and could still very well lead to Rhaenyra's wrath.
2. Haelena's loyalties were actually somewhat ambiguous in the book, she was initially willing and ready to declare fealty to Rhaenyra in order to avoid war when Aegon was first crowned. Her appearance in Daemon's vision could imply she has a greater awareness of the realm and less interest in the factional power squabbles. Or it could mean nothing, in that her presence in Daemon's vision doesn't imply she has any conscious or even direct agency in that vision. Is she really there, or just a vision generated by the Wierwood tree? We don't know enough about how those visions work to assume she is just comforting the man who (maybe) ordered the killing of her son.
@@chrisf7563This makes zero sense. If Alicent and Rhaenyra can get together and talk and reconcile after Alicent believed Rhaenyra killed her grandson, why won't they get together and talk for Rhaenyra to realize that Alicent didn't help Aegon escape?
No matter how you slice it, the illogicality gap will keep widening.
This was supposed to be a war between immoral factions; not a war between good and evil. They can't bring it back under control.
@@chrisf7563And are we supposed to forget that Alicent knows that Rhaenyra's children are not supposed to inherit the throne? Is that not the core of her opposition? Will Alicent give up Aegon for Rhaenyra and her Strong children?
@jonbolton491 That's not an absolute human nature axiom. Burying the hatchet once does not mean all future issues can be resolved between two parties. All it takes is Rhaenyra to not believe Alicent and feel manipulated/betrayed for her to no longer be so charitable. Or other issues could arise. There are still alot of ways for the show ratchet up conflict between the two, they've certainly not written themselves into a corner in which the two are simply besties for life.
I knew when they introduced that lesbian kissing scene that this season was cooked
Supposedly, it was the actors who put that in. Rhaenyra leaning on Mysaria for comfort when she is in a moment of isolation and feeling vulnerable although makes sense, they should've done it differently or built it up better because in the scene they chose it was too abrupt and felt out of place for the topic they were discussing. As a result, it felt forced and that the writers/actors were trying to deliver their own personal message rather than honoring the story being told
@@ashleyelisabeth4the scene should have been framed like Jaime and Brienne’s conversation in the bath house, with the camera panning back and forth between the two women as they sat across from each other with Mysaria revealing her past. That was such a beautiful scene of vulnerability. Instead, we got an out of place kiss.
@@ashleyelisabeth4 anything for Hollywood to inject a lbgtq narrative regardless of how redundant and useless it is I suppose.
@@khfan4life365 Completely agree
When rheneys bursted out from the ground in season 1 killing innocent small folks in the dragon pit, that's when I knew the show was gonna turn to crap
I hate that they totally wasted Lucerys’ and Jahaerys’ deaths. Those deaths were supposed to galvanize both sides for fucks sake. But, all we get is Rhaenyra and Alicent looking somberly towards the distance and saying, “What would you have me do?”
I’m not even excited for season 3 honestly Sara completely ruined this show
I hope whoever is in charge of Dunk & Egg learns from these mistakes and is faithful to the story 🙏🏻
They will likely ruin that too.
Hate D and D all u want but they knew the game of thrones universe very well. Even season 8 is better than HOTD
@@singstreetcar5881no Ditch against the zombies and a night cavalierly charge in the dark toward an enemy you don’t know is unforgivable.
No Ditch.
Oh you can bet your ass they will make Tanselle MUCH more prominent in the story.
@singstreetcar5881 Season 8 was still far worse than HOTD Season 2. HOTD Season 2 has some good stuff in it, whereas GOT Season 8 was almost completely worthless.
@@SolarDragon007 It's not just season 8 that was awful, GoT turned into trash as soon as season 5. Even season 4 was already kinda problematic. The first 3 season were masterpieces though.
Honestly im not even mad I didn't get to see the Battle of the Gullet, Fall of KL in eps 9&10, because i know I'm going to be let down in the end even if it was a complete 10 ep season. Spectacle isnt going to negate all the poor, nonsensical writing, mischaracterisations and contrived set ups that we've seen thus far.
I wish Aegon and Aemond's relationship to be as in the books. What they did to their relationship is so stupid...
The only 2 changes I like is making Aemond maling him accidentally kill Luke and making him look worried thay he fucked up, and making Aegon funny and later more sympathetic. The work because the source material is respected, everything else sucks and doesnt make sense.
@@mgm3649 Aemond’s change is dumb, every time we see him before that point he is doing something dark/ violent: and now all of a sudden he does not actually want to kill the boy who cut out his eye?
Do you know how bad having your eye sliced out would hurt in medieval times? With their horrible methods of medicine? Aemond easily could have died from an infection afterwards.
Any man would want to kill the person who did that to them, especially if they are your enemy in an inevitable civil war.
that with alicent and rhaenyra gave me the rest. i stay with books from now on, thank you very much
You could remove Daemon's entire plot line from Season 2 (him not being loyal to Rhaenyra at Harrenhall, which wasn't even in the book) and it would make no difference. Massive waste of screen time
Actually no, it has changed Daemon radically and his loyalty is not real cause he did it for the prophecy
It's like they're afraid of writing about women being horrible to eachother
Absolutely hit the dam nail with this video. Alicent is not the same from the books or the previous season. They make all the changes to make Rhaenyra better to what she actually is…….instinct like
I disagree, they don't give a shit about the whole Black vs Green, what they want is to make Rheanyra and Alicent both somehow victims, that everything bad happening is actually the fault of the men around manipulating them.
As someone who hasn't read Fire and Blood yet, I feel like S2 is a nearly complete deflation from everything that made me feel invested in S1. First few S2 episodes weren't bad, but something felt missing (a ton of it having to do with making the Greens "bad" and the Blacks "good" when S1 stayed more in the middle with some oscillation), and by the end it just feels empty. It'd be one thing if invested writers had some execution writers, but this feels like the writers don't take the story seriously, and that's a deadly flaw.
It's basically a fan-fiction at this point
I gave up on the season throughout. Aegon kept me going till episode 4. After that I was checked out and only watched sporadically. It seems to me that the majority of characters just say things that need to be said so that a desired plot point can be arrived at, not something that they should or would organically say as the people they are, or used to be in season 1. Also, the worst thing from season 1 - prophecies and such - spread like a plague this season. Basically every major character is tainted by a prophecy or a vision of the future now. Well, that caused my intrigue to plummet into oblivion.
Excellent channel, btw. Just discovered it to my joy :).
Also every deviation from the books results in a butterfly type effect where one needs to tie up multiple plotlines because you broke those connections that existed when you decided to go your own way rather than follow the source material. Veering off the books isnt always bad but if you do it with major plotpoints and major characters then one will have usually a harder time in maintaining the integrity of the original story. But it does seem that todays showrunners often think that they can write stuff as good as the original writers did. Look at Halo tv-series or the Witcher tv-series as an example.
Unfourtunately i bet this video is gonna age like fine wine
Im so happy to hear a fellow book reader who sees the show the same as me... as minimizing the story and war itself and that the show itself is contradicting...they change the charactets and make them weaker... everyone from the blacks and greens rhaenyra beent the heir and i honestly dont like the changes none of them to be honest especially visions and dreams because viserys wasnt delusional as the show is making him he was just more supportive of his first daughter the realm delight and you are right IT IS A DIFFERENT STORY NOT A STORY OF TARGARYEN DYNASTY DESTROYING ITSELF ..
If this show was any less subtle it'd be The Boys
The writers can not get out of their own way. The agendas that get pushed lead to so many issues.
The number of professions that employ under qualified people today is insane.
A lot of people defending the shows pacing by saying Game of Thrones was slow must never have understood why Game of Thrones slow moments were good. Good writing. The slow moments in HotD season 2 were boring and uninteresting.
Exactly, really not that hard to understand.
No Nettles means the battle above the Gods eye will be ruined. They probably gonna make Rhea pull an Arya Stark and kill Vhegar.
Or they're gonna make the battle a 2 vs 1 with Daemon and Rhaena against Aemond.
They will fight over the prophecy. Daemon to make that happen, Aemond to make that not happen
@@Male_FicentRhaena probably
They will fight for the prophecy
Also the show going out of their way to fill the cast with "muh diversity" and then snubbing and cutting nettles, the only OG story character with melanin is pure comedy.
But yeah Rhae-Rhae good, Aemond grumpy and mean.
Changing the character's personality because of their gender is a writing mistake and a bad decision because it influences the story in a big way. Changing the color of the skin of some characters, however, isn't detrimental to the story. Of all the things to get annoyed by, this is the stupidest.
@@mammamonssterrI think in this case it actually is a problem. It makes Rhaenerya’s heirs REALLY OBVIOUSLY visually illegitimate like immediately on the update.
Considering the entire war hinges on the legitimacy of the ruler, this really tips the scales and recontextualizes that whole plot
@@mammamonssterrand relax man, black people can handle not being cast in a show about white nobles doing incest and being evil. They don’t need you to “take up for them” (you’re not)
@@OrchinX making it really obvious is the opposite of a problem. It's a big theme how in jeopardy the position of Rhaenyra's children is, being unmistakably bastards. People KNOW they are. So much so that Aegon and Aemond tease them for it and Aemond loses an eye in a dispute related to it, and that's a big part later on in the war. Making them white instead of black is a good decision, in my opinion. Of course the hair color was obvious already, but again, the skin color makes a stronger (hehe) point.
House of the draggin
The fact not one drop of blood was spilled in the season finale was a crime within itself.
The writers cared more about side stuff like current day culture war than the actual story. Not once, has this made a good product. If they really want to show more women involvement, show the foreign whisperer women having more lesbian sex scenes, it’s a win win
They turned Daemon, GRR Martin's favorite character and the most dangerous man in the realm, into a joke. Rhaenyra who is a torturing psycho and murdering evil woman in the books (after being likable in the beginning) turned into this innocent grieving creature who wants to take the throne bloodlessly. Aemond, a guy who was the devil incarnate desperate to be like Daemon suddenly becomes a 2024 British lad full of remorse and drowning in psychobabbling that in 2024 make sense. But that in that world doesn't. Alicent giving the throne is nonsense too. Daemon who is more snake than dragon devised the plan to conquer King's Landing.
Great video! I agree completely! For me they ruined so much the story from the books that i won't bother with next season, i think from this point this show will be a waste of time..
"is it possible for the show to get worse?"
It's not just possible. it's inevitable.
The mental gymnastics people are going through to explain how this was actually a good finale baffles me.
The insistence that the only people criticizing are those who wanted to see action and dragons is annoying af too
The blood and cheese scene was so disappointing.
Please bring back D and D
Agreed it was neutered for no reason
D and D would have had Arya jump down from the ceiling and stab them both.
@@2ndgenmonkfan306 see the thing is D&D wasn't bad directors, they were bad writers when they had source material, they did a good job (got s1 to s4 or s5) the problem accrued when they ran out of source materials, when they have to come up with new idea and think how some certain characters would go on in story that's where they F up.
@@rxebec they started deviating quite a lot before the books even ended. Hence why s5-6 were particularly lackluster. They ain't no better than HOTD writers. Not to mention that given the nature of F&B, they will be forced to come up with their own thing to fill the gaps and we've seen how bad their dialogues can get.
"you want a good girl, but you need a bad pussy." 😐
Sara Hess isn’t more talented than George. She’s not close to being as talented of a writer than him. She shouldn’t be changing his writing for her own. It’s like going to watch Celine Dion in concert and instead you get someone who sometimes does local karaoke.
After S2, it's already too late. With Aemond knowing he'll die at Harrenhall, Aemond and Aegon basically being full blown enemies at each other's throats, Daeron not even being introduced yet, Rhaenyra not being a classist bigot but rather a flawless angel, Nettles not existing, and Alicent being okay with the execution of her sons, the show is already beyond recovery. It's dead. Nothing that made sense in the book can still make sense now, and I'll explain why in order of the things I mentioned:
Aemond would never go to Harrenhall knowing he'd die there. So no Gods' Eye battle can logically take place.
Aegon and Aemond being enemies because Aemond is a Disney villain (literally Scar from The Lion King) means no powerhouse duo, and thus no reason for either to do the many things they did on behalf of the other, to save and help each other. This has a direct impact on Rhaenyra's seizing of King's Landing and Daemon's fight with Aemond.
Daeron not being introduced yet means he can't fill this role of brotherly camaraderie either, making the aforementioned even worse. Furthermore, he's arguably the MVP of the entire Dance who turned the tides in favor of The Greens twice. Why the fuck does he not even exist yet???
Rhaenyra's bigotry, classism, racism and narcissism in the book is what makes Hugh and Ulf turn from her because she mistreats them since they're ''peasants''. But in the show, Rhaenyra is fully supportive of the peasantry and even said herself ''Let us raise an army of bastards'' like the beautiful, flawless, angelic woman she is. So yeah, that ruins the entire switch up (though I got the sneaky suspicion Jace is being set up to be the one to make Ulf and Hugh turn on them because a man is allowed to be a bigot, and in fact they'll love writing the fact that it's only due to incompetent and bigoted men that Rhaenyra's side took losses).
Nettles not existing means Sheepstealer will be a loyal force to Team Black (Rhaena) instead of an independent party who basically draws Daemon away from the conflict, which makes the Daemon/Aemond fight even less sensical. On top of this, Nettles was also a huge mirror for Rhaenyra's bigotry, which is part of the reason that Daemon basically ditched her and would've left the Dance entirely had he survived his conflict with Aemond. But again, Rhaenyra is a beautiful perfect angel like all women except for Alicent always are, so no mirrors allowed, and thus no Nettles, and thus the third layer of removal of the setup for the Gods' Eye battle between Daemon and Aemond.
As for Alicent being okay with this shit, her not being okay with it was (along with Tyland withholding the crown's wealth even as he was tortured and mutilated by Rhaenyra, which likely also won't happen as Rhaenyra is a magnificent, kind, perfect goddess) literally the reason Rhaenyra lost any and all favor with the common folk in King's Landing, which was the direct cause of the rebellion that expunged her from the city, which led to her death at the hands of Aegon and Sunfyre as she fled to Dragonstone and got clapped by them there. Literally none of this can happen now because Alicent sold out The Greens, meaning no common folk revolt can logically take place against Rhaenyra since The Greens (Helaena and Alicent) will allow in and condone her ascension to the throne, meaning they'd logically have the wealth and provisions of the crown, meaning no revolt from the peasantry, meaning no fleeing from the city, meaning no burning and eating alive at the hands of Aegon and Sunfyre.
Honestly I knew it'd be shit as soon as I saw that the Velaryons were black. People can call me racist all they want, idc, but even putting aside the fact that erasing one ethnic group for another is hideously fucking racist; that already showed that they were prioritizing identity politics over story, because the entire reason the Dance ever happened was that Jace and Luke COULD have been Laenor's children as Laenor wasn't black, and the kids were only black of hair, which could be explained away by Rhaenys also having black hair from her Baratheon side. It could have just skipped a generation from Laenor to his kids. We know it wasn't true, but it was feasible enough for corrupt lords to go with.
But in the show, it's super fucking obvious that they're bastards, sharing neither Laenor's hair, nor that of either of his parents, nor their skin colors. And that just shatters immersion, because medieval lords would NEVER tolerate that shit. They would all be team Green, all of them immediately turning against Rhaenyra and Viserys for supporting her in putting bastards on the throne.
The writing has been trash from the start. People, myself included, just didn't want to see it.
The Show writers who seem to be awfully keen on "making improvements" to well established stories surprisingly don't have any credible writing credits to their names, I wonder why.... smh
Imagine giving someone creative control over your work, your baby, and they start to insist they know what’ll benefit the story better than you do.
Now imagine that happening to you TWICE.
horrible season. And season 3 will be bad also. I hope they atleast get Hour of the Wolf corretly. meanwhile team gold Aegon II and Sunfyre. And i hate Daemon this season more than any character of late. They lost me with him. Too bad because Rogue Prince isn't dog on the leash
The Alicent from season 1 would have been more likely to offer her own life to Rhaenyra than Aegon's, because she and Otto pushed Aegon to take a throne he literally didn't want.
There’s an interview with Emma D’Arcy and Olivia Cooke being asked why each side should win and Emma hesitates then says “BECAUSE DADDY SAID SO” kinda jokingly. It made for a funny moment but when you take into consideration that that IS how the writers have chosen to portray this version of Rhaenyra it leaves much to be desired. Her wanting the crown just because she’s supposed to have it (as opposed to being power hungry and cutthroat like in the book) doesn’t really lend much credence to her actions later on so I’m curious to see how they’re gonna write that in. How she is now is a complete 180 from how she’s supposed to end up.
rhaenyra saying “a son for a son” really pissed me off like Alicent should have said she wanted a grandson for a grandson
The advertised it to choose your side. But the showrunners seem to have picked a side already. Even from season 1, you can tell they already have a "protagonist" :/
Honestly they could've worked with 8 episodes. Was it underwhelming? Yea, but It's not even the lack of action and dragon battles that got me turned off this season, It's the awful brain dead writing, monotonous storytelling and character assassinations. I rewatched season 1 of GOT last week and god damn I could watch them just talking all day. There was tension and conflict. It goes to show that a multimillion dollar budget and all the cgi in the world cant replace good writing & storytelling. HOTD, season 2 specifically, is just filled with shameless cameos, marvel-esque fan service, and nonsensical plot lines that veered too far from the book. They're literally making the same mistake as D&D. Well at least D&D had the excuse of running out of source material.
I think we can still see conflicts with Raena (not being Nettles). I think that Rhaenyra can hold Raena accountable for what is to come with her sons and direct all of her rage towards her causing Deamon to split his loyalty between his queen/wife and his daughter. Though by the way the show writers are letting her be so forgiving of Alicent - it would be weird if she’s going hard towards Raena. It wouldn’t be weird due to the Nettles cut though. It would also be weird because the show had made Daemon have no connection with his daughters. It’s so weird
Why are you afraid of talking about the idiotic relationship between White worm and Rhaenyra??
I actually did. ruclips.net/video/V44BRbqyT60/видео.html
@@ValaritasYT Bruh, I even watched it and gave a like🤣🤦🏻
@@narxes Bahaha, I'm not the type of guy to drag about relationships but Im 10x less of an incel than u are boy😁
This show is beyond repair...
Agreed
Unless they redo the second half of s2, this show is done for
4:57 - They learned nothing from Daenerys and GOT season 8.
The fact that aren't laying the groundwork for what comes later makes me wonder if they're going to completely change the story so that Rhaenyra doesn't go full Mad Queen
I’d be happy with your number of subscribers but you do deserve a lot more. Thanks for articulating what a lot of us may have felt about season 2. It sucks that the showrunners want to turn it into a borderline Rhaenyra and Alicent lesbian fan-fiction. If HotD goes the way of Game of Thrones, it would be more unforgivable as the source material is already finished.
To be honest the Greens were more interesting this Season because of their flaws.
Aemond gets right criticized for killing smallfolk, but no one mentions it when Rhaenys massacred men, women and we can assume children. Rhaenyra talked about Daemon damaging her claim by killing Jaehaerys, but Rhaenys spilt one of the first blood in the war. Of course it might seem like a small point, but they harped on it with Aemond and still showed Rhaenys supporting rhaenyra’s pacifism while already killing people. Terrible writing
I agree 100%. Accept I won’t be awaiting season 3. I’ve lost hope that anyone can adapt George’s work faithfully without writers egos getting in the way wanting to make it their own story. 😢
wake up babe, Mr Valaritas dropped another banger!!
The self discovery journey of Daemon shouldn't have been longer than 1 ep
Emma Olívia and matt are mad at this too😢
YES! THIS GUY UNDERSTANDS! as always amazing video! This video must go viral so everybody can see the flaws of season 2.
If making the two strongest female characters of the story into whining, agency-less, non-entities is the writers idea of feminism ... I'd hate to see their idea of misogyny.
GRRM hates changes done not only to his work but to other works as well and experessed this multiple times on his blog but sadly I guess even his hands are tied and he can't force HBO on what to do.
The downfall of HotD was that it was overhyped by people using it as a reference to crap on Rings of Power and now that the comparison is gone they realized it's just an ok show and not the second coming they tried to pretend it was.
I have watched both of the show and in that time HOTD season 1 was quite good and Rings of power ( despite many critics) was okay.
Watch rings of power season 2 be better than HOTD now
@@javierlopez9789 Ι already liked season 1 better than HotD so you don't have to tell me.
you also forget about the conqueror dream, they made the whole dance about it and i think this coming from HBO so make us forget about the bad ending of GOT
Mark my words they will change the death of Rhaenrya she will fight aegon on dragon back and die heroically
Way too many uninteresting side characters this season. They mishandled the Greens and ruined Alicents character. So poorly done but I’m not surprised
With all it’s supposed flaws it’s still the most compelling show on television
The show producers are just staying to stretch the series out to like 5 seasons. It shouod be tight and quick 3 seasons
battles don't cost a thing in HOTD. What you don't film can't burden your budget
Downfall? You mean the show was up to begin with?
Compared to Rings of Woke or GOT season 8 it was pretty good
i really hate sara hess for ruining this show
If S3 is worst than S2 then it will be unwatchable. I think they will focus more on action in S3.
Nice to find out I am not the only one who felt the changes made the show boring. And i fully agree focusing only on Alicent and Rhaenyra was a mistake.
Can anyone send me the link of that Olivia Cooke clip where she talks about that scene with Rhaenyra?
Something I noticed and annoyed me in the writing is many times you would hear the characters saying that something has to be done or something's gonna happen and then you see it happening in the next scene instead to crisscross plots as it's normally done.
Exactly we lost the meaning of time we literally couldn't tell if any scene that happened took 3 days or 1 or a week or a month
The need to always have women in a good light is what’s wrong with Hollywood. Arcane is the only form of media that feels human, which is impressive but also a shame being that I have more relatability with fictional animations than live action characters 🤦🏾♂️
The book the show is based on is written as an account of a Maester, there are no individual character POV chapters like in ASOIAF. Instead, it’s s a very bland account of events. The comparison with Tolkien’s “The Silmarillion” is spot on. Right when they announced this show I knew it would never be close to the quality of GOT. GOT seasons 1-4 were great because there was a lot of great dialogue in the books. The writers were able to use all of that character wit that Martin created and build upon it through great acting. And obviously great set pieces and music helped.
It feels like HBO went with House of the Dragons because of… the Dragons. My feeling is that they should have gone with A knight of Seven Kingdoms instead , as that story reads like a proper novel. So i expect it should turn out better than HotD.
I read the books after the finale. The History of Westoros and then the Hedge Knight. I cannot believe they could mess that up. The BEST story is laid out for them?!!......... JUST DON"T CHANGE ANYTHING! Thats all we wanted, we just want the actual book brought to life. We don't need any writers or producers changing the CORE story. Sure add your own stuff, even create your own stories, but please GOD just leave the core story alone.
It took Game of Thrones like 6 seasons before it started going bad. House of the Dragon going downhill in Season 2? Like what?!?
Lastly, problems arising in Game of Thrones started when there was less book material to base the show off of. House of the Dragon shouldn't have this issue. There's plenty of book material to go with, but they drifted away from it.