Chevy Corvette vs Pontiac Trans Am Drag Race, Roll Race & Brake Test: Which Cheap Muscle Car Best
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- Опубликовано: 19 янв 2025
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In this video we hit the track in two heavily depreciated V8 muscle cars! The Chevy Corvette (C4) and Pontiac Firebird Trans Am!
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#Corvette #TransAm #Mazda
Love these type videos, keep'em coming guys. And gotta say TFL is one of my favorite channels & the whole team.👍🏻👍🏻
Sadly from 2030 on all combustion cars including classics will be banned
from public streets in entire EU and Scandinavia :-( In Germany the
Green Peoples Party gave order to shorten fuel supply from 2025
on by reducing all conventional fuel stations to only one state operated central gas
station per city or county. Now they want to slow down all the gas station fuel
pumps from 20 litre per minute to 2 litre per minute...From 2027 on in
the EU certain car spare parts will be banned too....as exhaust systems,
turbo chargers and even some engine and gearbox oils...California and
New York will do the same from 2027 on.... So no investments should be
done in oil burning cars any longer....They even created a new kind of
crime here, called emissions and smoke crime !!!! (BABVVO laws!!!!)
C4s are aging extremely well! They were so far ahead of their time.
Not really but Ok
@@nbagoats4819 c4s set several performance records that stood for decades before they were broken.
As an owner of one, with the 6 speed, they are creaky and behind the times. It’s a beauty and sounds good though.
@@petermuller161 newest L98 Vette is 32 years old, I'd say I agree with you lol
@@nbagoats4819 C4 was and still is great, and definitely was ahead of its competitors.
Something is wrong with that TA. LT1 should walk that L98 no problem
I agree I’ve been in both cars the lt1 should be a lot faster
Driver is shifting at 4800 rpms is the problem. Could probably use a tune up too
I was thinking the same thing!
It is the driver of the trans Am that is the problem
That’s right
The Trans Am needs a driver mod. That LT 1 has way more potential especially 16 seconds in quarter mile.😂
Yeah, he did a horrible job driving the TA.
Back when these cars were new, I autocrossed an 88, non-turbo rx7 and had someone put an accelerometer in it to time me. I ran a 15.1 quarter with 150 hp. On a mountain runway. Lol.
Yea i had a 96 TA auto car back in 99 and it ran a 13.89 at 100 bone stock,but im barely above sea level here in VA.
As usual they have to remind everyone they’re running in Colorado where all times are way off what the mainstream is used to.
@@christophermorales1509 why, are they racing up hill or something? 🤔
My dad had an 86 corvette when I was a kid. All my friends thought my dad was so cool when he picked me up from school in it. Used to love those digital gauges and man I miss those leather wrapped steering wheels in them. Great video..... really reminded me off my old man..... lost him to cancer in 2013..... but watching this just brought up some great memories 💯
I wish him safe travels into the beyond. My dad had a 98 SS when he got out the Marines. I got a 96 Z28 a couple years ago since he is so busy with work and stuff to bring back those memories when he rides with me
This is my favorite channel/series of all the TFL channels. I love seeing these 80s/90s cars. Maybe someday you guys will get your hands on a GNX. I’d also like to see some of the sport trucks from the era. The 454SS in particular and a Syclone.
Something tells me that T/A needs some more loving. I really can't figure out how an L98 was able to walk away from an LT1, even with the weight difference. Mile above sea level or not, thats at least 2 seconds slower than the usual 1/4 mile times.
Not saying the T/A SHOULD have been faster outright, but it should have been a lot closer than that.
I bet the ta has a trap speed about 1 or 2 mph faster. I've had several c4 tpi vettes and took them to the strip allot. The l98 runs better to about the thousand ft mark or 90 to 95 mph. After that the lt1 starts to creep ahead
I used to beat 6 speed LT1s all the time in my L98. LT1s weren't impressive. The tuned runners helped rhe L98 run hard despite choking the engine at high RPMs. You can't look at just peak power. The L98 had a better mid range than the untuned 3" runners of the LT1
@The Logical Lifter Not just going by peak power, going by the numbers that I can find for both of their 1/4 mile times when stock. The best I can see is the L98 was somewhere around 13.9-14.1 and the T/A was 14.1-14.3. Here the 'Vette absolutely walked away.
I'm not saying the T/A should have been quicker, but it should have been closer than it was.
I have a 1994 C4 LT1 6sp manual and am in Arvada CO. Let’s do this, I’d love to see how the two C4’s fair against each other.
Go show him what a LT1 can do. My 92 LT1 C4 was definitely faster than my 88 C4.
would love to see this as well
Please don't go and embarrass Tommy. Tommy really sucks at racing.
Like and comment to get Tommy’s attention. I want to see this too.
That would be nice to see.
Listen to all that GM plastic rattle, I still like the car
😂😂😂
Union quality
Please keep these kind of series coming, I really enjoy them.
Something is definitely up with that TA. The LT1 made WAY more power than that L98 C4 did. I used to own LT1 fbods way back in the day and would routinely mop the floor with L98 Vettes. It wasn't even a contest. I would lay money on that Opticrap, I mean Optispark going bad. When mine did, it was like a different car, like someone knocked off 75 or 80 horsepower.
I know because I had a 88 5.0 mustang back in the early 90's and I had no problems with C4 corvettes, 350 TA's and 350 Iroc's until they came out with LT1 in 92.
That or they can’t drive
@@cubedmackLol, it was all over after the LT1 dropped, I know the feeling.
Nope. My L98 1991 Firebird Formula ran 14.2 stock and a 13.7 with free mods and a new higher stall torque converter with a 1.91 60 foot. The torque curve of the L98 plus the ability to stay in the same gear for so long really was a winning combination.
Exactly what I was thinking Def an opti issue needs to just go 24x
Where are you located? We've got a 2023 c8 currently in Utah that you can race.
that would be fun
Either there is something seriously wrong with that Trans Am or you guys cannot drive worth a lick. I used to drag race regularly at Pueblo drag strip and even the automatic LT1 Z28 cars were running high 14s-15.0's. And mind you at that time if you did not have slicks or drag radials they made you race on the unprepped portion of the track at Pueblo.
T/A needs a driver mod badly, that car has more in it that we aren’t seeing.
I love my c4 corvette never understood why they were so under rated. One of the most well rounded corvettes ever if u ask me
I'm an import gut and bought a '94 6-spd on a whim. I am very impressed with the car. I've found myself wanting an '89 6-spd now, too!
@@andydhillon1977why a 1989?
@Jesterok Jones First year the Corvette got a 6-spd manual transmission.
Same! My favorite body style, especially 80s C4.
They should switch drivers around and try again! I feel like the vette driver was the only good driver
Man, you guys need to DRIVE those cars, WTF are you doing out there?!
I mopped quite a few C4 Vettes with my '02 SS. That Pontiac should be doing way better than it is
TA either needs driver mod or something’s wrong with it. The LT1 will mop the floor against a L98
THAT TRANS AM LOOKS LIKE SOME SORT OF ELECTRONIC
SCRUB BRUSH.
T Top T/A is heavier than tin top....but obvious way cooler😎
That LT1, honestly should have pulled that vette.. Dyno the T/A, let's see what it puts down to the wheel..
I think the TA need some love and a tune up. Definitely sounded a little strained when it was revved
I think so too. It should be at least a second and a half faster.
It absolutely needs a tune up. Before they even ran, when he revved it, I said something is wrong with that it.
@@wallacerickmanii I liked the sound of it to be honest but I agree it shouldn't sound like that lol
In 1995 a friend of my dad had the same Trans Am also in grey, the Trans Am was my fav car ever and he let me use it once, it was like an space ship.
No you can't get a T/A for less than $10k, you can't find them! Especially a WS6.
Bought mine for $4600 guy thought the motor was blown somehow snapped the cam on her 6speed manual t-top leather interior everything you can ask for
Bought mine for 4,500 great shape.
0:54 my 88 vette with a manual trans ran a 13.6 if you don’t get close to that, give up on racing all together.
I'd be curious to see a dyno on the T/A. Seems it should be doing a bit better on the acceleration runs. Perhaps the similar torque and lighter weight of the Vette explains it.
He said that he didn't see any need to rev past 5,000 rpm. He isn't getting the most from the car. Put someone in that can drive and you may get a different result.
The Trans Am needs a driver mod.
@@Swamp-y They both do, guy in the vette shifts slow, the other guy won’t rev past 5k. They’re scared to break something I guess.
@@makara Another thing to note, those factory tachometers are horribly inaccurate and can be a couple hundred RPM off near redline. He was probably shifting at 4500ish RPM. The factory redline isn't until 5800 and the shift point should be around 5600.
Dude can’t drive or the TA isn’t running right.
My 95 Z28 LT1 always beat my 88 L98 C4.
Those are terrible times. I ran a 14.4 at 99 mph in my 95 Formula Firebird when I ran it back in 00. my 02 T/A ran 13.4 at 105
It's the elevation. Those cars would be in the mid to low 14s at sea level. I had a 89 vette with a auto and 307 gears it ran 13.78 at 100 bone stock other then some mufflers and a rear y pipe
@Jeff Flaig I have no idea why this channel and others in Colorado like that That Racing Channel or whatever do these. It's embarrassing to hear them list times with cars suffocating in that elevation. Just don't or move.
That trans am steering wheel/column shake and rattle is a little scary 🤣
I noticed that as well and yeah there's a serious issue there!!
I'm a current owner of a 93 v6 Firebird, got it with 30k OG MILES and it's at 64k right now. I'm going to get a trans am in about a few months after my car gets resprayed and I'm SO EXCITED! I love trans am's. they're my favorite car.
Trans Am's were always the better looking sister to the Camaro
@@deluxalpha4138 absolutely agreed.
@@Shibtember yeah its a shame Pontiac discontinued them in 02 and then a few years later GM discontinued Pontiac overall... real shame we never got another Firebird
@@deluxalpha4138 i agree, rip the firebird :( wonderful cars.
I had a beautiful C4 '86 Corvette Z51 for 20 years. I was afraid to take it out of the garage because someone would ding it with theyr'e door.
Damn guys, I feel like if you ever get a chance to race at sea level it'll feel like you're doing warp speed. Great as always
Stock Trans-Am of thatera and spec shoud be around 14.00 flat in the quarter. I'd imagine the c4 should be... high 14s,
Which is BALLZZ quick for both these beautiful rigs! I'd LOVE to own either of them!
My 95 TA RAN 14.2 @101 MPH STOCK in Florida. My 94 C4 ran 13.8@103 stock. Both automatics, same track . Gainesville raceway. I "slightly"moded both which I still own. Needless to say they're along way from where they stared . Both still daily drivers.
Can see the pontiac rockin so granny shifting and 6spd shouldn't matter doing 1/4 since you can use 3 gears in the run.
If racing an automatic you'll lose if not doing no lift shifts as a automatic shifts without lifting 🧐
Watching this video because this summer I’m gonna fix my dads 1994 formula V8 firebird and I’m excited 😂
The T/A should definitely be faster, especially with the 6 speed. The car definitely has an issue beyond driver error.
yeah, but the vette is really small . on a none prepped surface i could see the extra 700 pounds being a problem for the TA.
@@jayb3955 lol more like 150 pounds more on the ta
It’s mostly driver I think, guy is shifting at like 4800 rpm
@@jayb3955 700 lbs what are you on lol
@@rockoz28ctd I looked it up thought it was more but its over 300 pounds my bad
I hope you fixed the oil leaks on the Firebird before racing these :(
That C4 Corvette is really impressive. Watching 80's GM be successful is like watching a Cheetah hunt successfully
Them LT engines were ahead of their time
@@angelgjr1999 It doesn't have the LT it has the l98
@@angelgjr1999 The Pontiac is the one rocking the LT1. The LT1 didn't hit the C4, until 1992.
Somethings up with that TA.. should’ve been faster than that L98.. my dad has a LT1 TA he bought new back in 93 and he beat an LT1 Vette .. was close but he still beat it.
Probably more the driver then anything. All being equal the lt1 vette is faster but it also has 35 more hp stock and it's a lighter car. Plus don't forget the independent suspension helps it launch better
My 99 z28 used to walk c5 s stock c4 would not stand a chance and f body are pretty light mine was 3490 with a quarter tank of fuel low 13 all day long at 106
Lt4 on the other hand and zr1 those are those are the good c4s
@@kimvaccaro2786 99 z28 is LS1 though. You had to have a 6 speed to run that quick in stock 99 z28. My buddy had a brand new 99 auto it would run 14 flat all day long at 102mph. I've seen stock c5 vettes run all over the place from low 14s to high 12s depending on if it was a auto or manual.
@@kimvaccaro2786 you were not walking C5s in a stock LS Z
I have a 35th anniversary Corvette, 1988. Stock it's running 14.4 at 103 mph in Orlando Florida
The TA -->needs a fuel injection cleaning maybe a compression loss and new differential fluid to check into and it should does destroy the L98 Corvette with ease especially with a manual.
You need a driver mod on the trans am!!! Those keep up with C5 Corvettes!!! They don't lose to tuned port C4s!!!!
I have an LT1 in a camaro with a procharger ,big difference, try it
Was not aware that a '95 was an early T/A. My '71 was just a dream, I guess.
I love how u guys got together and had a goal...now u r at almost 200k subscribers.
I have a 91 vette. Last year l98, first year body refresh. This old l98 with the 6 speed manual will make you smile all day. If you can drive it normal 30mpg on the highway is easy.
My 97 ws6 ran a 14.0 bone stock. It ran a 13.4 with full exhaust.
You said the trans am needs maintenance…. You didn’t even give it a tune up before this race?
I’m gonna say from experience that the LT1 should win a fairly close drag race. And should pull pretty decently from a roll
Pontiac FIREBIRD Trans Am
Always loved the ws6 hood but not the regular Camaro etc kinda unfair to go against a turbo car
Hard to imagine my stock 5.7l hemi Grand Cherokee beats all 3 of those
Bridgestone is some of the best tires you can get.. They are the biggest maker of tires for a reason.
Try to get the 1996 Corvette with the 6 speed manual and LT4!
Stock Trans-Am of that era should be around 14.00 flat in the quarter. I'd imagine the c4 should be... high 14s,
Which is BALLZZ quick for both these beautiful rigs (for that time)! I'd LOVE to own either of them!
Bingo
most likely the trans am is a bit down on power and needs a tune up!
My last C4 was a '96 LT4 6-Spd. It wasn't any slower than my C5 LS1. The none Grand Sports are almost unknown by the general public. They don't realize that ever '96 6-Spd has the LT4 Engine, not just the Grand Sport.
I just purchased a ‘96 LT4 two weeks ago, an amazing car. It was at a good price and I think these cars are under appreciated at the moment, but will only go up in value.
@@RomVlad Definately under appreciated. They are a an absolute steal for a legit 175 mph Sports Car (They have a higher top speed than the GS due to the lower drag). The chassis is a bit flexible, but my '96 LT4 Z51 was an absolute blast at Road Atlanta and Barber during school days. The later Z51s are not bad street cars at all. To be honest they feel more like a Z52 (with less pitch and roll) than the early almost Race Car Stiff Z51. Really hate that I sold it, but I was out of garage space and something had to go.
@@gk5891 Well, I just picked this car up, it has 76,000 miles on it, all original paint, accident free, very very nice condition,$13,000 . I just had my mechanic go over everything. It does need a new rear shocks, and it does have the F 45 suspension with the original shocks, so I’ll have to take care of that, but he was very impressed by the condition.
@@RomVlad That's one of the nice thing about Corvettes.. They are often weekend toys and can be very well kept with reasonable miles even after a couple of decades. I hope you enjoy yours as much as I did mine.
@@gk5891 Thank you. I’m thinking in the future maybe some coil overs, another set of wheels and tires, but not really doing anything to the motor. I hope to keep it as long as I possibly can.
I owned a 1988 Corvette Z51. It was a fun car. I also had a 1991 ZR-1, much more fun. I now own a 2011 CTS-V funnest of them all. Thanks for the video. I still love the old C4 vette!
I had a 88 Corvette back in the 90s,and it came from factory with aluminum heads,that year being lighter than the T/A the LT1 didn't have a chance.
There's a reason why, L98 CORVETTES were, undefeated, in showroom stock SCCA endurance racing back in the mid 80s.
Didn't mention the Torque for the TA.
I had a 94 formula firebird with a 285 horsepower lt1 which I ran high 13s with so damn I don’t know what the sea level rate is here in southwest Missouri but 2.5 plus seconds seems a bit off
I have a Mazda3 turbo, and if you brake boost it for more than lets say 5 secs, it will bog down, so the best technique is to rev it and hold it to 2500rpm and release the brake and it shoots off like a crazy cat
I love these older car races
This is the most casual racing I’ve ever seen LOL! My stock 1991 Mustang 5.0 (only did an exhaust for sound) ran 13.9-14.3 all day long, and C4 Corvettes would always edge me out. This video is so casual it hurts to watch 🤣🤣🤣
It might have helped if the skinny guy drove the Mazda. But then, we saw how he drove the T/A 🤷
The Comp T/A wins in every area, especially exhaust 🤔
C4 and C5 Corvettes are such great performance bargains..
The firechicken needs a tune up. It's so much newer and more powerful, it should not have lost.
I know there are sports cars that are more frumpy than the C4 Corvette, but I can't think of any right now. You look at the styling of all the 80s supercars (308GTS, F40, Testarossa, Countach) and then you have the C4 that looks like a farm implement in comparison.
Love the Trans Am though!
Stingray should've driven the vette
My 95 Trans Am was running mid 12s. Wondering if you turn off traction control
You guys keep saying you find these under $10k so I'm curious where?? I've wanted one of these TA's for years and years and I've NEVER seen one under $10k with the exception of 6 cylinder cars or cars that are so roached it would cost more to bring them back than a good one would cost. I combed every online source I could find after watching your last Vette/Bird video and couldn't find anything even close. I'm just curious where you're finding them at that price?
The one with the lt1 is going to win.
I severely over estimated trans am drivers, driving abilities and perhaps condition of the car. Sounds like he was really short shifting it.
payed 2500 for my low end 94 corvette 6 speed lt1 needed a clutch was fun traded it with my 09 challenger to get a 2010 srt challenger 6.1 still miss the vett
The TA needs a better driver .
$6600 for a '95 Comp T/A w/6 speed and only 107K miles is a steal. But, 16.07 ET in the quarter, even at altitude is pathetic.
16.7….
Piss poor..my 94 z28 ran 13.8..very little mods! Wth??!!
Like somebody else pointed out there's something up with that firebird considering it has over 60 horsepower out of that LT1 which is a much better engine than the L98.
The power should more than compensate for the curb weight difference here
More like 285hp & 330tq vs 245hp 345tq
How does that Corvette compare to a 2019 F-150 SuperCrew with a 2.7 running premium with a car seat in the backseat at a mile above sea level?
Corvette easily wins. The F150 has more HP and slightly more torque but the massive difference in weight and aerodynamics will be the deciding factor. In some sense it's not fair to compare the two... they are very different vehicles designed for different things. If you want to tow or carry stuff around on the other hand, F150 is the clear winner. That's why I own a Corvette and an SUV. Need the right tool for the job
@@ObscureStuff420 just throwing out another vehicle I’d like to see tested. Yeah the truck weighs more and is less aerodynamic. Twin turbo at a mile above sea level makes it closer.
I don’t want to see them race my XJ8 against the Corvette. Baby EcoBoost crew cab yes.
Great video guys! Well informed and very entertaining. As a Trans AM guy, I love seeing these in action! I feel like that TA could use a tuneup but well done overall!
Yeah there’s something wrong with that TA lol. I had a 95 Z28 LT1 and I never lost to a L98 C4…
The TA needs work or a better driver, or both…
@@speedracerjeff if I do remember correctly the TA was pretty tired, north of 100k miles? But still I expected a bit more. Also a 6 speed does require a certain amount of finesse to launch, if Tommy held it at about 3200k then dumped the clutch I think he would have got the jump, but regardless a good video!
Biggest problem with the LT1 is lack of maintenance. Cant say i blame them tho its a pain getting to the optispark. I just hope he does his research and does not toss out that mitsubishi sensor, just replace the rest of the cap and rotor.
And get rid of that dexcool junk.
@@dnegel9546 First thing I did when I got my LS1 T/A was replace the deathcool.
@@FWDSUXARSE can’t believe gm still sells that thing. Supposedly they changed the formula or something. But i aint trying to find out. Took me forever to get rid off the dexcool in my lt1. Peak + water wet kept my temps in check without even changing to a 160t stat. 🙂 I couldn’t believe water wet actually worked.
The thing about the C4.... the tires make ALL the difference. I only went thru one set of those 10k tires, the pilot sports... I got a 30k set of tires, much harder rubber, lasts 3x as long. That car doesn't take off, stop or corner like it did with those 10K mile tires on it. It's still plenty fast.
Dude in the ta is literally the worst driver i ever seen
Please get somebody in that TA who knows how to drive!
That short shift
I feel like the Mazda didn’t get a fair shake. Can they not disable or partially disable the TC? Is there no sport mode?
Hard to believe a 95 trans am 6 speed is losing to a 4 + 3 88 corvette. Doesn't make sense
Old buddy of mine had a 89 Corvette with an automatic and it ran like a striped a-- ape lol, that TA probably needs a tune up and who no's maybe the engine was road hard and put away wet lol!!!!
Guy is shifting too early at 4800, needs a tune up too likely
Did you say you were upshifting the LT1 just before 5k? I think stock redline is like 5800k? Not to mention, stock gauge may be off (my 95 is off about 300rpm, so 6200rpm on gauge is actually about 5900rpm). So potentially you were shifting at like 4500rpm... thats leaving a lot on the table.
Tommy is a horrible driver
Glad I wasn’t the only one who noticed.
Love to have that trans am…where do they find these cars for those prices?
I just sold a 96 Z28 for $2k last summer. The buyer was going to have to put the engine and tranny back in it but it was all there. I only bought the car because I was going to put that engine and tranny in a 65 C10 I had just to keep the build on that truck cheap and I was trying to sell parts and guy wanted it all. He actually had a v6 car and he wanted to do a swap which seems really stupid to me. Told him to just put the engine and tranny back in the car I sold him. Its probably yard art can't imagine he will ever do anything at all with it. It was a 6 speed car I really just wanted it for that 6 speed. I paid $1500 I think for it and I drove it home. It was a bank repo. Then I found a bunch of SnapOn and Matco tools in it including a battery 1/4 ratchet that was SnapOn and a set of SnapOn 1/2 inch impact sockets, a bunch of Matco screwdrivers and some wrenches the tools alone were probably worth what I paid for the car and it had a set of C6 rims on it and I kept the rims.
What width tires? Later firebirds and camaros had 275mm wide. early corvettes had 245mm wide.
maybe had them gatorbacks tho...lmao!
Something is very off with the acceleration comparison, I spent a lot of time running F bodies back in the day and this comparison would make sense if that was a LT vette, definitely not with the l98 lol. At the track the stock Lt f bodies were always running 13.5-14.5 and those L98 vettes 14.5-15.5. Think that TA needs a trip to the shop
Haven’t even watched the video yet and I can say the trans am is going to smoke that piece of crap corvette!!
I love my lt1 Pontiac but i wish performance parts were more common and cheaper
Best video to wake up to!! Hell yeah! Love you guys. Cheers from Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. We should do a video on J body cars. Let's talk about Sunfires Coupes, Cavalier Coupes and Saturn Coupes. Touch up on some history from 1982 - 2005
Why couldn't they find an LT-1 Corvette made within a year or two of the TransAm? Would have made the comparison more interesting.
Good job knocking 0.7 off the last time the TA was raced!
I wanted one of those WS6 Trans Ams in the worst way when they came out. I thought they were a bit quicker. Lol.
They are quicker
They are quicker. It needs a tune up and he can't launch a car. My '02 SS destroys C4 Vettes. I have no clue why that Pontiac is getting smoked
@@Whats-It-To-Ya
maybe the Corvette got a super ram installed... like my 89 GTA 😜
They are, this guy can’t drive for crap.
@@Whats-It-To-Ya this is a LT1, not a LS1 like your car. Should still beat this vette though
I have both of these cars. 97ta and 04 corvette. The corvette is much better off the line , but the trans am is a burnout machine.
Rear end gearing makes a big difference… 3.73 gears really wake up the LT1 F-Bodies.
My 92 LT1 C4 was way faster than my 88 L98 C4. The L98 has no top end and falls on its face in 3rd gear.
They should compare a LT1 C4 vs L98 C4.
Don’t worry, weight and maintenance are slowing me down as well🤪😜
Did I hear your right? 240hp 340tq?
That Trans am must be not running right or he can't drive
Maybe it's the drivers!!! First the TA sounds better & I have a fully loaded stock 86 TA. Only mod is a B&M stage 3 shift kit. Street racing w/ a 97 Corvette GS . Was tied every run. Was years ago but still have my TA. I was running on 97octane, you can't get at the pump anymore, so that dates it but I bet, put me in that Pontiac and results might turn out different more recently ran a 25th anniversary Z28 and he never had a chance