Dear Josh I am from Germany and ordered our Grenadier beginning July 2024. Estimated delivery November 2024. On Sep. 19th I got an Information from Lynn Calden because of problems with a supplier and the delay of the delivery of our Grenadier. I contacted our Dealer and he offered me a car from stock nearly identical with the configuration of our ordered one. We are waiting now for the delivery of our Grenadier. So for me, everything went to a perfect solution. We are glad how they handled this in Germany. Best wishes!
Congratulations! and thank you for sharing. It sounds like things worked out great for you and that you will be driving your Grenadier soon. Germany has such a great variety of cars, but I think the Grenadier will be a stand out. Good luck!
I would agree with you in thinking that 'timing' has been against Ineos. I have owned mine for 18 months, and love the vehicle. I also ordered a high spec. In the UK, there are around 90 vehicles for sale. Only three are close to my spec.
Thanks for your comment. It appears that there are loads of basic Station Wagons available, but like you say there are fewer of the high spec with the desired combination of options available. Happy to hear that you are enjoying your Grenadier!
I just picked up my Grenadier Fieldmaster last Saturday from Red Noland in Colorado Springs. They had told me that Ineos shipped them a bunch of 24s for inventory. I think they had about 50 combined on the lot and in their storage lot. We drove it back from Colorado and got to spend some quality time with it on the way back to AZ. I ordered mine in April and it arrived early September. I’m happy with it and it was everything I was looking for. Of course there are a few things I wish were different but so far so good. Most people I run into still have never heard of it and ask me tons of questions if they see me around the vehicle.
Congratulations! and thanks for commenting. It sounds like you didn't have too long of a wait for yours and that's great too. I hope that you are enjoying it. It does make you feel like a brand ambassador for INEOS when out and about in the Grenadier as I do get a lot of questions too. I'm finding a common question I'm getting from somebody who's never seen a Grenadier before is "Is it electric?" which makes me chuckle. Have fun!
I love my trialmaster. If they can update the tech and a couple other little things the grenadier would be a hit. Absolutely amazing quality. I’ve owned numerous cars and none have ever received this amount attention. Love this channel!
Thanks for commenting. We don't want to forget that there are loads of happy owners out there, which is quite remarkable for such a young company. I think time will only help them improve, and with the INEOS parental backing insure that they weather any rough times - like the current Recaro situation. Happy to hear that you're enjoying your Trialmaster!
Subscribed! Was genuinely surprised at the end of this video that I was not subscribed as I’ve watched a few of your videos. RUclips does such a good job of recommending your videos even though I’m not a subscriber. Thanks for putting the time in, you’ve clearly put some effort into gathering the numbers you report. I picked up my Grenadier about a month ago, and I love it. I have to admit though, I was absolutely stunned that they would build a car for me, for $500, that I could simply walk away from at any point. That seemed completely bonkers. Having spent a couple of decades in the internet startup space I figured they simply wanted to report high levels of interest in the vehicle to investors, but damn, that was quite the play. I hope they switch to a more sensible approach of getting on the waiting list for $500 but the actual build requires a lot more skin in the game.
Thanks for subscribing! I know it's a forgettable thing, but RUclips doesn't make suggestions even though they watch everything that you watch. I appreciate your comments and it's great to hear from a fellow Grenadier owner who is having a great experience. It will be interesting to see how they migrate the order process now that people can see them before they order them. I think that had a lot to do with the low barrier for the original batch.
One item I didn't hear you mention was the low number of dealerships. Here in Florida there are two: One in Fort Lauderdale - a 250 mile round trip from my home - and one in St. Petersburg - a 300 mile round trip. Both have ample inventory but you really need to be motivated to buy a Grenadier to spend a long day just driving to see one and kick its tires. In my case I had wanted a Grenadier since I first read of Sir James' plan to build it in the Times of London. Recently I found a Fieldmaster on the dealer's lot in St. Pete that had the features I wanted (actually.more than I wanted. Since I'm not planning to go out into the Everglades to jack alligators so I really don't need the winch. But the truck came with one.) So far the Grenadier has proved to be exactly what I expected it to be and I like it more every day. It's not a vehicle for everybody, but it suits me down to the ground.
Completely understand, but don’t forget that It’s a very young manufacturer. Building up the dealers network is not easy, thinking of the kind of vehicle even less easy, and they cannot over invest in dealers before having the needed demand.
Good point! INEOS has only 20 dealers in the US at the moment, and it would be vastly different if they had 10 in every state, etc. So having an oversupply knowing that they are serving a wide area may make that most sense and adding dealers as demand grows so that the dealers can build a solid (sustainable) business. Thanks for commenting.
@@timw308 Well, I've reached the age where the Grenadier may be the last vehicle I buy. And given that I tend to hold onto cars for the long term - I had my Range Rover for 13 years - depreciation is a non-issue. Yes the dealers are a long way off - for now - but I only drive about 4,000 miles per year, so I'll only have to make those trips every couple of years. In the meantime I can do most of the routine maintenance myself. So now I get to enjoy a remarkable and unique motor. There are some things in life that you just can't put a price on.
enjoyed the video. I actually ordered a Grenadier in October of 23. It got here much sooner than I expected and now it's setting at Sewel Ineos in Dallas waiting on me to get by Defender sold. I still plan on purchasing one when by 90 sells. I do agree with you that the base model doesn't have much on it which is why I built a mix of the two for myself but who knows if I will get that one by the time the Defender is sold. Great video as always
Thanks for your comment. You're Grenadier is probably well kitted and those are the ones that dealers still find demand for. Then, it just boils down to color preference. The un-spec'd basic ones are likely going to be the last to go. Good luck selling your Defender!
If the base models are not selling, possible the maker could buy them back and sell them to NGO;s at loss, but PR gain. That would allow the dealers to buy the models that are selling. At a parking garage, the Grenadier coming was just scrapping the 2m overhead bar. So keep that in mind if you like using covered parking.
Thanks for your comment. Be sure to see my video (if you haven't) where my dealer brought my Grenadier to my high-rise building to test in the parking garage to see that it would fit (spoiler: just barely). But I wasn't going to buy it if I could not park it at home! As for your comment about selling the base models, I can also see a bright future for some of them as service department loaners. That would make alot of customers very happy.
Hi Josh! So you asked about folks that purchased without pre-ordering. WELL we are one of "those people"... LOL! Wife spotted one here in Colorado Springs while we were having another car serviced in Motor City. She was like WHAT is that???? I had no clue until a trailer pulled up with about 6 or so on it. Then the service guy at another dealer told us they were Grenadiers and they are new to the market in the US. VERY fortunate for us...Red Noland has an INEOS dealership within walking distance. We had ZERO CLUE on what a "Grenadier" was or who "INEOS" was. Between my wife first seeing it to the test drive was literally 2 days. Test drove on a Saturday for almost 2 hours (shout out to Craig at Red Noland)....came back on Monday and purchased one. Traded in my beloved 2019 Tacoma OR which had about 10K in mods I put on it and walked off with OUR Grenadier! Fortunately for us the Fieldmaster we purchased ticked off all the boxes for us with some little things I could simply change myself. So in about 2.5 weeks we have put 900 miles on it and this weekend did some testing in the Colorado Mts....Got our MANDATORY pin stripes and this thing performed flawlessly! Taking it up to 12,000' or so above the tree line on mining/fire roads was a blast! MANY folks asked about the Grenadier and while most did not know what it was...some ARE considering one but had never seen one IRL. We spent a TON of time explaining the vehicle and having folks climb on in to see what it is all about! So count me in for someone who saw one at the beginning of Sep and within a week (doing some LONG nights and days of research crammed into a few days) we purchased and have not looked back!
Congratulations! and thanks for chiming in here. Your experience is one that I think is happening more and more. Didn't know it existed one day, drove home in one the next. Having a dealer nearby is a clincher as you feel covered if anything were to happen mechanically. Enjoy your Grenadier!
It’s similar in the UK. They have only registered 200 or so in 2024 up until the end of August. About third of the number sold in the same period last year.
@@CraigMcCarthy-u8v It’s quite possible, since the UK launch and customer deliveries in 2022, not 3. However the figures I’ve seen indicate nearer 1500, but ether way it’s not a lot and considering Ford sell 16,000 pickups in the UK every year., to say the least. There is no denying that sales have fallen off a cliff this year to what is probably the naturally sustainable if not viable number of probably 500 in a full year. The forthcoming increase in license class from 3500 gross to, I believe, 4200kgs will give a massive boost to the Quartermaster, because it will allow it to be rated to carry 1040kgs and therefore qualify for VAT rebate for the first time. It will still be expensive but 20% cheaper than currently which may persuade a few more farmers, utility companies and civil engineers to buy. It currently may well be ‘Built on Purpose’ but it isn’t built or priced to fit the intended 'heavy duty business purpose’. Best of luck to them though and I may yet eventually buy one. If it had been available when I patiently waited for a Defender 110 pickup replacement back in 2000 to 2006, I would have bought one if it was VAT qualifying. However I’m currently running two Rangers and had another, my first, in 2006, after the 110 expired. Currently I would find it hard to justify paying more than £5000 extra on top of a Ranger for a similarly equipped Grenadier, but I would pay that much more and possibly up to £10k more if they could persuade me of significant advantages.
The Vins are now over 22,500 with just under 20,000 sold (global). In 18 months, that is not a bad number considering it is a niche vehicle which only started low levels of advertising just 2 months ago. And no China in that yet.
It does all appear to still be moving forward and that is good news. I think they did reasonably well for bringing the Grenadier out to an (relatively) untested market - and it remains to be see what monthly dealer sales will be as the brand grows. I hope that INEOS is taking this all in stride. Thanks for your comment!
I agree that most vehicles on the lot have no options or obscure options that don't make sense for most people interested in the vehicle. For example, No lockers, no hitch , no heated seats and/or no compass. Most people are buying this vehicle to get out of town not drive around town. Unfortunately, those obscure optioned vehicles will sit on the lot for some time.
Agree with your assessment. Their problem is likely the base model without front/rear lockers. At the vehicles core, this IS the reason one buys a Grenadier. Trialmaster has that. Fieldmaster does not but many option it. I absolutely love my Trialmaster but I was on this journey from the very beginning-and for those coming on board now…they need to either research or sit down with a representative who can walk people thru these features.
Also have to remember- there are only a handful of dealerships in the country. So 1) not only do a majority of people not even know about them 2) if you do know and want one, getting to a dealership just for a test drive may be expensive for some. So having 500 cars available in the entire USA isn’t actually bad.
Really good points! If INEOS had a dealer on every corner with many cars sitting on the lot that is a far bigger problem than when there is only one or two dealers in the entire state. That makes the supply not seem overly concerning. I am, however, hearing from potential buyers who are concerned about buying a new car from a new manufacturer with a nearest dealer being 350 miles away. I'm not sure if I would feel as comfortable if that were my circumstance (it's not). Thanks for commenting!
That's the mantra "It's not perfect, but I love it." Took the words out of my mouth. I think that those who actually bought one have a different perspective than those sitting on the sideline. I think it would be unfortunate for someone to be put off by all the information that is put out there - even some that is put out by those who drive one around the block and then review it! Thanks for commenting!
I was interested in the Grenadier from when it was first announced especially at the price points first mooted. I was happy to see that the vehicle when delivered lived up to its off road and on road performance objectives for the most part. In the last year I've noticed that the American public and motoring media seem to have become much more aware of it, and it is now regularly included in comparison articles, discussions and videos of what off road capable vehicle to buy, with the Grenadier usually ranked at the top of the pile. So it's great to see it getting the recognition that it deserves. However, now that I have retired and am just about to buy a off road capable vehicle for long term 10 to 15 years use I'm getting cold feet on pulling the trigger on the Grenadier....the reasons for this primarily price (yes I know it's built in engineering makes it worth the price and good value); lack of dealers for repairs & service especially if doing an international multiyear tour; concern that might not be long term viable which could leave me holding a lemon; and recognition that there are now other choices which can do a lot of what the Grenadier can do for a lot less $$. It is these considerations, with the cost given most weight, that have resulted in my decision to buy a Lexus GX 550 instead. But I will continue to be a Grenadier Fan Boy/Supporter and strongly look forward to seeing their long term success.
Thanks for commenting - all valid points! It is a bit pricey and unproven, so we'll let time and track record build which may better justify the price. As dealers come on line that will also be helpful. I hear distance from a dealer being a factor for not moving ahead quite often. But it sounds like you'll be enjoying your Lexus - and there's nothing wrong with that!
It’s a fine line to build the supply and sales but keep them under 10,000 units a year to avoid the cafe regulations. If they fixed or improved the main gripes quickly, I’m sure the social feedback, which most buyers listen these days, would improve drastically and sales would pick up, even though they are a little pricey… software updates, maintenance manuals, ability to lift without risk of shaft joint failure or losing the warranty, cup holders, turning radius, return to center, on road focused suspension as an option, higher end or luxury radio option without having to go arcane works for $75k more, etc… the rest is good but some things are putting people off.
Thanks for the great comment! You pretty well nailed my list of things I wish they did better, but still do feel really good about it when I get behind the wheel. Don't like the turning radius, don't like the all of the nanny sounds and beeps, but they got so much right for a 1.0 version. I agree that if they listen carefully - and there are so many opinions out there to filter - they will bring the Grenadier forward and make it even better. That's my hope. As for sales numbers, I think that's all a matter of time, brand awareness, and price.
You did a lot of work to conclude there are over 800 unsold Grenadiers on US dealer lots and that might explain why they have to slow supply. It’s a very unique, cool car, for, sure. And maybe you are right about the glut of base models. Excellent groundwork on your part.
Bang on with the ‘weird’ specced cars. Often our clients want exactly what they want and they do not often need the car very quickly. At the beginning we even received stock cars without towball for example, but also cars without reverse camera, diff locks,…
Congratulations! Yes, there are many to be had at the moment and that's lucky for buyers as a year from now this will likely be different once they balance out the supply. Most people really like the Grenadier even if it has a few quirks that we like to call "character" - I think the price puts some of the originally interested buyers off as it costs a pretty penny to get one. But you'll be happy that you did! Thanks for commenting.
@@MyAutomobileObsession yeap, i don't think the company is doing enough to advertise the car. been seating under the Florida weather in a parking lot is not good. Mine had a thick crust of dirt on the roof.
Dealers are sitting on a lot of cars because even before the factory shut down Ineos was gearing up for Quartermasters, So the factory has moved out all the 2024 wagon production through the system and out to dealers to hold them over for months, 3, 4 or more months of sales. My local dealer in July sold more Grenadiers than all their other brands combined, Mercedes, Porsche, Land Rover and Volvo. And at that rate represented less than a month worth of inventory but they still need space and moving cars as fast as possible.
I agree with you. My snapshot of what is available on dealer lots didn't come with a lot of context as we haven't been monitoring it since February. It's hard to say if they have too many or too few, but I received so many comments about cars just "sitting" on dealer lots that it prompted me to lay this out in a video for discussion. I see a bright future for the Grenadier both because it's got good bones but also has good karma. It always receives positive responses when I'm out driving in it. I'm not sure that can be said for every new vehicle out there. Thanks for your comments!
I’m sure Ineos has a plan, the vehicle and the company is brand new and IMO is a revelation , let’s not jump to conclusions and if you love the vehicle like I do let’s keep the news positive. Remember Ineos Worldwide as a company is BIGGER than McDonald’s worldwide , let’s keep the faith 🇬🇧🇺🇸
Thanks for your comment. Faith not shaken here. I don't see the sky falling anytime soon. We do, however, want to see them make good choices in how they grow the brand and as you mention are well capitalized to take appropriate time to do so. In the end, I think they'll get it right.
Absolutely love my Fieldmaster. I get stopped several times weekly with folks asking me about it and saying how great it looks. Easily one of the best purchases I have made. I secretly like the fact it’s not over saturated with a ton on the road. I use to count how many Wranglers or Broncos I would see on the road….its comical, no thanks. All those owners I catch staring at the Grenadier. I was a little shocked how many on the lot didn’t have the trailer hitch, seems like that should just be standard and made sure mine had it. I opted for no carpet and have the composite floors which in my opinion is actually more premium than carpet.
Thanks for commenting and congratulations on your Fieldmaster. I agree that it's fun to not see Greanadiers on the road beside you all day long. I do find myself getting asked about it regularly - with one of the frequent questions being "Is it electric?".
I remember reading about the Grenadier when it was an idea and seeing bits and pieces on various platforms (advertisements) and it almost seemed impossible that this vehicle would ever come about. Now that it's here, I'm really interested. My main issue is the dealer/service network. I live in Norcal but not in the SF area so the closest dealer is 2 hours (without traffic) away from me. This isn't as much of an issue for purchasing since I can buy anywhere and drive it home, but lack of service is a deal breaker. Until there is a dealer closer to me I'll have to sit on the sidelines.
Your point is a valid one. I pressed go when I found out that I lived really near a dealer which gave me confidence (whether it matters remains to be seen) that if I had troubles that help would be nearby. Sitting on the sidelines is likely appropriate until you follow the experience of others, however I must admit that so far, my car has been running great and it doesn't look like it's going to be one that has the visit the service department every other month. Hold out until you can't stand it, then go with it and enjoy!
Interesting video. I was excited early on about the grenadier and still am. I placed a deposit early and followed the journey assuming I would follow through when they said time to actually order. But as I started building what I wanted it was over 90k and frankly I was too risk adverse to drop that on first year run. Now that people have put some miles on them I was going to get one, but interest rates went way up. If the slow dawn and dealer inventory means there is possible a good deal on money again timing may be right. It to your point, I’ve been checking inventory here and there and I can’t find one exactly what I want so it seems ordering custom is the way to go, maybe they should only sell to order?? I dunno…
You're right. It got a little more expensive than I think anybody really wanted, but those who took the plunge are mostly very happy (there's always a few that can't be pleased). But I do think they will handle ordering differently once they clear up their oversupply of those minimally equipped models that they need to move along. I don't think INEOS will make the same mistake twice, and the oversupply may become a "wait your turn" situation a year (or so) from now. Thanks for commenting!
I am a satisfied owner in Germany. The same volume rules (10,000 units) also apply here. 30,000 vehicles per year, if you include the UK and Australia, is therefore quite realistic.
Thanks for your comment! It's great hearing from happy Grenadier owners in other countries and agree that when looking worldwide, INEOS has a reasonable target. I feel that they are going to do well in the long run.
The Grenadier is nice I like it a lot, being an off roader, My choices would be jeep especially 392 which I’ve owned or the bronco raptor which I now own, Both are incredible, the Grenadier I just recently sat in one I like it a lot I felt right at home sitting in it but it’s expensive and it’s new, parts availability warranty work etc. would be a big concern for me, I really hope grenadier can lower their prices, because getting something loaded and paying close to $100,000 with all the fees you can go buy a loaded jeep or a Bronco with I feel much more capability, with simple modifications the Grenadier can become better and that’s what I like about it it reminds me of the jeep but everything is new there’s not much on the market for it. If they could lower their price is considerable to get it in comparison to a loaded jeep wrangler I feel the grenadier would start doing better
Had my Fieldmaster for a year, covering 5000 miles. It had a recall for a module fault. Nothing major Anyone who knows anything about decent off road 4x4s will appreciate these machines are well designed, beautifully made and perform admirably in pretty much most situations. I’ve owned Defenders, Discoverys and can tell you the Grenadier blows them apart in pretty much every respect. There’s a company in the UK now offering brand new Defenders, built to your specification, for £180,000+. Who the hell is going to buy one when you can bag a top notch Grenadier for over £100K less? IG is here to stay. I love ‘em!
Trouble is too many influences, and here say. It's a fantastic truck, had mine 16 months and I'd not swap, for towing in Europe, off road work vehicle, that coming from oil and gas exploration, experience of 70 series, hilux and g's. Unimogs and personally owned 4 older defenders. It's a hell of a truck.
That's great to hear about your Grenadier. Thanks for sharing - I appreciate when owners share their experience as I think it helps to dispel that hearsay.
Interesting reflection. Regarding the vehicle price, one thing that nobody talk about is the production volume impact. A large manufacturer can make the same vehicle at much lower cost, because they get all the components much cheaper due to the volume. Specially if the components are shared with other models of the manufacturer. Being a small manufacturer is tough also for that. And many parts suppliers don’t even would be interested on Ineos just because the volumes are not interesting for them. So at the end of the day, as the production cost of the vehicle will be high anyway, Ineos decided to go for everything high quality. So the car is not cheap but it’s high quality everywhere, and there is were the business is. Another consideration is that Ineos needs still to invest a lot and during long time in marketing, because they are unknown for the most of the people that are not off-road enthusiasts. But even within them, it’s not fully known. So they need to be careful, so small steps but the correct ones, invest in little by little improvements of the vehicle, invest in get known, and when the business is running well maybe start another model with wider market share
Great comments! I feel like they are moving in the right direction, but external economic headwinds are always an unknown. But as you say small steps, but the correct ones will make this brand a success.
So, I want the lockers, white top, light blue, preferably steel wheels, but whatever on that. Exterior electrical connections, ideally safari windows. So really, I think it works out better just to get a higher model.
That sounds like a great build! But you're right that your requirements may need an order rather than one you can find already available for sale. Good luck!
Agreed. I would search high and low to find what I wanted in a 2024 before taking a number to order a 2025, but I also would not compromise if some key feature that I really wanted wasn't in that 2024. Thanks for your comment!
I've got a tad over 8,000 miles on my Grenadier. I've spent a good share of time off road and I think it's a great truck. I think the people who ordered a base model without lockers made huge mistake. I think this truck was designed and built for a specific market share which I fall into. Interest rates could be part of the reason why they aren't selling, but the 2.9% offered now should help. I was concerened about dealer support, and the longevity of the company. If these trucks become unavailable for sale as new in the US I truly believe the price is going to skyrocket as a used truck. Right now I think the price is on point for what you get. The Grenadier is a robust off pavement machine. I enjoy mine very much. Is it perfect, no, but it's the kind of car I want to own.
Thanks for commenting - Great points! I think a lot of people who are holding out are doing so because the dealer is a little too far away for comfort. I think time with Grenadiers on the road not falling apart will be a reassurance.
I had one on order in the early days , a commercial version, cancelled my order when it became known that in the uk HMRC didn’t recognise it a a commercial, that has now be rectified, but in the meantime I bought 3 defender 110 commercial vehicles for my business, I test drove the diesel grenadier 2 weeks ago and didn’t like the way it drove , they didn’t have a petrol version for me to try , so until I do it looks like I’m sticking to the defenders for my business needs
Thanks for sharing this. First, you are the envy of folks in the U.S. who cannot have the diesel version and really wanted it. I was unaware of the commercial status as they also don't bring that version over to the US and the lowest model we have is the Station Wagon. It sounds like you're doing well with your Defenders at the moment, but as INEOS grows you may have better luck with being able to try before you buy and feel confident about your selection. Good luck!
@@laurencefahey3132 new defenders are ok in the uk until you wake up one morning and find that someone has stolen them with a lap top and also only 3yrs warranty cover from JLR UK, Ineos uses an old skool ignition key and has 5yrs unlimited mileage warranty bumper to bumper. I used to buy the new Defender for business but after two were stolen and the warranty expired I went to Ineos and have never looked back to be honest
There's only one dealership in my country that's bringing in the Grenadier and they just launched it a couple months ago. Trouble is, this particular dealership has dropped deals with other brands for less than a production halt, so I'm worried that if I get one now and they call off their deal with Ineos I'd be stuck with no dedicated local maintenance. Sure, I could get it serviced anywhere, but I'd still want it to be under warranty for at least the first few years.
Thanks for your comment. I understand your concern, but think that if your local dealer folded, INEOS Auto NA would select another in the general region. They initially had 150 applicants and chose 20 for round 1. Only one of those was unable to meet requirements and open (Silicon Valley) and has recently been replaced by a new one in the Bay Area. I'm hanging my hat on that 5 year warranty and keeping fingers crossed that business is enough to sustain each dealer as they were required to establish stand alone store for the brand - so a big investment.
"Much ado about nothing." - a situation where a great deal of effort, energy, or commotion is expended over something of little or no importance. Don't overthink the Grenadier inventory in dealer's lots and draw false conclusions. My local Chevrolet dealer has 45 new Silverado trucks in stock. The Ford dealer has 48 new Broncos in stock. BMW, 47 new vehicles in stock. Does this alone mean they are not selling well? No. The Grenadier is a purpose designed vehicle for purpose driven buyers with specific needs. Don't expect them to be flying off the dealer lots to the typical 4x4 enthusiast.
Great point. I made this video in response to the reactions I were receiving. But I think you are correct that the sky is not falling, but I think original fans expected the Grenadier to be an instant sell out with very limited availability and now see that maybe there wasn't such a need to rush. I chalk it up to growing pains for INEOS. Thanks for commenting.
Im not sure how fast they are selling, so it’s hard to tell by a number of cars if that’s a lot or not. I do think the truck is great and I’d probably be in one if I had greater confidence in Ineos. Yes they are part of a big conglomerate, but I think they botched their rollout a little (should have asked for a little more commitment at order time), don’t seem to have a lot of depth or timeliness to their tech support, and parts are expensive and hard to come by. Now that they’ve shuttered the production line it will be difficult to get all of that labor and supply chain orchestrated to get that moving again, and that may lead to more economic and supply issues. I hope Lynn Calder has a plan cause I really want this brand to succeed, but it’s just a bit too fuzzy for me to place a very big bet that they will be around I ten or twenty years (I want to keep this for a while).
I think you're right about asking for a bigger commitment, but on the initial orders they just didn't have anything to preview other than photos and some prototype videos, so I think that is why they were so flexible. Now that one can test drive a Grenadier and see it up close, I might expect they would find ways of preventing punters from ordering combinations that don't make sense. It may also be easier to order now that all of the options are demonstrable. Since the production shutdown, INEOS launched the Chinese market, so they show no signs of slowing down. It will be interesting to watch as there may be growing pains, however I think they will succeed as the product is good. Thanks for your comments.
No problems yet. I'm 4 months and almost 2,000 miles in (I don't drive a lot...). They did, however made a couple of corrections before I collected the vehicle as I did a long test drive and we spotted a couple of things that needed attention (rear door sensor and a/c refrigerant) - my recommendation is to plan an overnight visit on weekdays where you can come out for an extended test drive on day one with the proviso that you'll collect it on day 2 giving them the opportunity to address any niggles that you might discover. My local dealer is great and after addressing the list we came up with I have not needed to bring it back in. However, it would have been a first/quick trip back had they not addressed those discovered items. The door sensor somtimes would not let me lock the car as it didn't think the door was fully closed. The A/C blew hot - both were rather obvious in my opinion. I get a lot of feedback from owners and most are quite happy, but the dealer is what makes a good thing great - so do a little homework on things to be on the lookout for and plan accordingly. Other than that, I do know of owners who literally had Grenadiers delivered to them from a far away dealer on a flatbed and had no issue. I'm just a cautious guy who likes a backup plan. Good Luck!
You will enjoy your 1924 whenever it finally arrives. If anything, I think those may be prioritized when the production ramps back up since you cannot buy one sitting in inventory - like the Quartermaster. Congrats and hang in there - It'll be here before you know it!
That's great to hear. I hope you're enjoying meeting all of the folks who waited and waited and waited for the day that their Grenadier finally arrived. Most people who actually own one are quite fond of them. I know that people see mine and it's the first time they've ever seen one. Can't tell you how many times I've referred them to my local dealer. Thanks for commenting!
I think sales estimates were set too high given the tiny number of dealers in the USA. Awareness is still very low in the States .In Europe, with small roads and tight spaces they would increase sales penetration if they offered a SWB 3 door as do Toyota with Land cruiser and the EU built LR Defender.
Good points. They had to start somewhere and I gather they will sort their expectations. In the end, I just want them to do well (i.e., have a healthy business and dealer network).
What I see at the two closest dealers in my area, is that the units on the lot are mostly "orders" that people did not end up buying. They are spec'd out with weird options that dont make sense, or are missing the critical items. Who wants a winch without lockers? Who wants a $90k spec'd unit without towing option and without leather, but has every other option and a red frame. That's what I'm seeing here (New England). I have been looking for one with the options I want, I've viewed 50 plus units and none of them have them. I'm not looking for anything out of the ordinary, but I do want some of the good things: leather, lockers, Assy power, towing, prem audio. I've decided to wait for remote start, removed speed warning, and repair manuals (as promised). I'm not holding my breath.... If those are not availble by 2026, GX 550 here I come.
Thanks for commenting. If you have time on your side and can wait for a bespoke model (that's custom order to us US folk), then I'd choose that as you can also get the color you want. Just an unknown wait is all. I have been hearing from viewers who have similar experiences in finding Grenadiers available with odd combinations of options, so I think that is what is contributing to the unsold ones. In the end, I hope you get what you are looking for!
@@MyAutomobileObsession Thank you for the info. I'm not in a rush to buy yet. I was still waiting to see some info between the GX550 and the Grenadier, so I did a 2yr lease on another vehicle to give me some time. I prefer the overall look and functions of the Grenadier but do have a few reservations at this time. 1) That the company is still very new and may not stay around causing a parts supply issue in the future. 2) The fact that the closest dealership is two states away (about 3 hours), so dealer maintenance is a concern. 3) Some of the weird/annoying features or lack of features, speed warning, no remote start, and I've been told no keyless entry even though I see lock and unlock on the key fob. 4) I’m seeing a increase in "used" units with 3000-8000 miles popping up for sale, makes me wonder why they would turn them in so soon. I have yet to drive one because there are NONE in my area. The price tag is a deterrent as well, with the GX about $10k less for the unit I'd want. I want to own my next purchase for 10-15 years of daily use and would love something like this a lot longer, but there’s no data of reliability yet. I’m not a fan of BMW engines, and wish we had options for that. Thanks for your channel, yes I subscribed :)
@@dmck2533 I certainly understand any reluctance to push hard to get one when you haven't even been behind the wheel yet. I remember driving 150 miles to the desert near the Arizona border to some Timbuktu offroad course just for the opportunity to attend an INEOS prototype event and get 10 minutes behind the wheel of a Grenadier, and to see if physically in person. So, it sounds like you made good steps in setting a comfortable backup while you wait and watch how things develop with the dealer network. INEOS just announced adding 4 more this past week. Two have opened, and 2 still pending. Oh, and yes you can unlock the car remotely with the key - the fob has a lock and an unlock button. It's just us modern people unlock the car and then put the key back in our pockets and get in the car to find out that the key is needed in the ignition to turn the car on...
So I just learn that those that paid $450 to custom order back out and that is why I notice so many available variants at Rusnak, yes I was looking at Trailmaster and test drove it. I was quoted $94k, I own a Jeep Rubicon, Discovery 5 and LR3 but after going various Ineos youtube owners, I notice I have to spend a few mods like the stabilizer, fast forward , I decided to get a 2021 Defender P400 with a lot of options I really wanted and for half the cost $52k instead $94k, I still find it appealing but not at that price.
Thanks for commenting. I know that there are lots of folks who wanted one, but want to wait and see how a new company with a new vehicle performs before plunking down so much money. Yes, there is a lot of trust involved. I went through the process myself when they called me and told me my order was arriving. Some took the plunge and others passed. But, you've got some fun transportation to use while you watch how this turns out. I like the Defender 110 P400 - I seriously considered one myself.
I'm very interested in the IG as an upgrade from my 4Runner. And...a dealer just opened up a few miles from me! My concern is the survivability of the dealership given the tiny sales volumes. They've been open a month or so, and have over 20 vehicles on the lot. It seems they've only sold one or two. Even if the sales pick up, it's hard to see how the numbers work given the dealers around them sell more cars in a day than they will in a month.
Thanks for your comment. This boils down to the cup half full/empty side of you. Many owners would take comfort in a local dealer, but your concerns are valid about dealership stability. I feel like INEOS vetted them carefully and if they just opened have had the opportunity to see some ups and downs. If your dealer has other stores with other brands, that would be a good sign, as getting an INEOS dealer will one day be a feather in their cap. Once upon a time, Land Rover went through this in the US (back in the 90's)...few dealers taking a risk that it will all work out.
Thanks for your question. Unfortunately, I don't know the answer. I wasn't certain if your question was relating to original Defender or Defender 2, however if you're asking about Defender 2, I would guess that pricing would be similar or higher as Land Rover loves to have a base model with minimal features that offers everything as an add-on option which can really crank up the price. Presently the Defender has more electronic bells and whistles that INEOS chose not to offer on the Grenadier.
I was sceptic about Ineos due to watch the uk market and what this car was made for. More I watch movies about those who actually use it off road like Ronny Dahl I want this car more but I think the price is way too high compare to what you get for while compare to other cars. In Uk prices slowly drop for used ones and you can get use fully equip rough and smooth pack with tow bar from 2023 for £53000 with 4000 miles on clock. I hope that drop to £40000 in 2025 where I will see point to buy it. I don’t see point to spend £79000 for new while year after sell value will be around £57000 so looking for drop in price much better is to get use one. In UK you can get 0% apr if you pay half cash for new one I think it is still not good deal as the price is way too high of this car.
Thanks for your comments. I guess time will tell what the resale market will look like. In the early years, I think there may be more available based on punters who bought before they could really spend time with it. As time goes on, I think all future buyers will be more tuned in on the Grenadier and most likely to hang onto them for a longer time. So we'll see what the future holds.
That is the question of the day - is that a lot? I would tend to agree with you, but I'm seeing good arguments on both sides that it's is and it isn't. My concern was more with the amount of base models with no options that I think will be a tougher sell. Thanks for commenting!
I had an interesting thing happen. My grenadier order on the website which I ordered in June says estimated delivery quarter 1 2025. I got the email from the CEO explaining the production halt and that my delivery would be further delayed. Two days later I got an email from my dealership saying the website is inaccurate, my truck had already been made and was on its way over to the states for an October delivery. Seems disorganized.
Or seems like a bad email list manager? That is great news if your Grenadier was built before the shutdown as you will be a rare bird out there for several months until production resumes. Congratulations (in advance), and thanks for your comment!
@@MyAutomobileObsession by the way love your page. It’s getting me through the anticipation and waiting. Odd that the build site is so inaccurate. Ive been watching it weekly waiting for a sign that it was in production. Almost bought another one online from inventory when I got the CEO announcement.
@@VTFIREHORSE Thanks for the kind words. If you've never waited for a new order car before, you'll find that it's actually a really fun period. You find yourself taking the time to learn all about it and will appreciate it more once you finally get it.
Thanks for the question. My report had May, June, July of this year and each month was just a hair under 500 units each month. So a relatively stable trend. I just think they were expecting a tad higher. I didn't spend too much time on exacting the numbers as while these are industry driven reports, I'm unsure about accuracy or margin or error.
A lot not the grenadiers available are regular grenadiers. A lot are not trialmasters or with adequate options. This car without the lockers & auxiliary package is really not doing it justice
St Pete Crown Ineos must have at least 50-70 on the lot. As of Friday. Seemed like a lot of them to be floor planned. Would be a great time to start on some end of year discounts?
That's what everybody is wondering. Will they mark 'em down to move 'em out? or will the Recaro caused factory shut down make dealers less willing to let them go so easy? It does seem like a lot of Grenadiers, but maybe if you consider that there are only a small number of dealers that even have the car for sale, it looks less desperate. Time will tell. Thanks for your comments!
@@MyAutomobileObsessionupdate, this weekend, there were far less. I’d say around 30 or so. Was hoping to find one with white exterior, leather and red frame-but I want the side steps and ladder and hitch-many of the ones on the lot seemed stripped down.
Hi There & Thanks for your comment. You're one of the unlucky ones who lives in a right-hand drive country as this has to do with the design of the BMW engine and the exhaust manifold (if I have that correct) comes out of the right side and causes that bump in the footwell. It is a bit amazing that they couldn't manage it better in the design phase (I'm sure they tried!) but all of the viewers in the U.S. are likely wondering what you're on about. Seriously, I have heard this often and for those that it affects - it really is a bother. I hope it doesn't ruin your fun with the Grenadier!
You're right. I didn't post loads of numbers or specific dealer inventories as I didn't want to overstate my case in calling anybody out. But we know each dealer has 2 demos (minimum) and I wish mine would punch a few for service loaners as they don't currently offer one to customers (a bridge I have yet to cross). Thanks for commenting.
Thanks for commenting. I have faith that they'll sort this out and likely keep Recaro. During my research, I learned that supplier bankruptcies are a common thing in the auto industry and this is just a very public bump in the road for INEOS. Time will tell...
He did. I wonder how that would have turned out had they said yes.
Месяц назад
I disagree..most people want this for off roading so the base model with perhaps just lockers is the golden product..not one with luxury features like carpeting..leather..sunroof..
Thanks for your comment. I think people see this as a problem because you only get a central locker with the base model, and have to option the front and rear as a "pack" at time of order, so they are not included - leaving the basic Grenadier rather basic.
Thanks for your comment. I don't know that I would ever expect to do well in getting out of a recently new vehicle - especially when supply for new ones is plentiful. Time will tell how this plays out. Who knows, years from now it could become a collectible if INEOS changes course too radically and people go searching for these early versions. Let's revisit in 20 years...
There’s an affordability crisis, … $80.000 car …? , is a solid car with a solid price, are you living in a bubble, your talking about this car like is a bargain.
You make a valid point. But I have learned to be amazed that in the toughest of times there seem to be many who are willing and able to splash cash on an $80,000 / expensive car, or a nice new (fill in the blank). Thanks for commenting.
@@MyAutomobileObsession l know, lm amazed too, seeing Ineos Grenadier in Fortlauderdale’s porche’s houses where the Holman dealer resides, between Holmans Rolls Royce and Holman Vinfast , closed to a building in Las Olas boulevard where a Townhouse inside the building is renting for $18.000 monthly and they are building a new condominium designed by Pininfarina, l celebrate to be wealthy and to have resources and this a great car with a great BMW engine, but l don’t know what’s car manufacturers are thinking with those prices even for middle class, that’s why Stellantis destroyed Dodge, Chrysler, Jeep, the MSRP of those brands when up 40% and Carlos Tabares was making annually more the 4 millions, now they are in the edge of a bankruptcy and the Chinese showing interest to buy those brands.
Thanks for your comment. I think our original expectation was around $60K, but that was in 2020 when they briefly mentioned that number. As time went by they kept quiet until they were ready to open the order books, and there was a lot of sticker shock. Of course they will argue that the starting price is $73K, but that is not the model of choice for just about anyone. It will be interesting to see how this progresses....
You're correct. They stopped bringing it to the US in the late 90's for that reason, but didn't fully discontinue in the UK until 2016. It is an expensive undertaking to meet all of the various country regulations for safety and emissions, but it CAN be done if it makes financial sense to proceed. I just feel that Land Rover didn't think so. Thanks again for your comment.
Thanks for your comment. I'm in agreement with you that this needs to be remedied before people begin to not care and the momentum slows even more. Hopefully we will hear something positive soon.
Thanks for commenting. I've been hearing mixed reviews from German viewers. Those who drive them really like the Grenadier. But that doesn't mean it's an overall success.
INEOS sold them a couple of years ago and have since stopped. They used to have a link on the website and sold a few shirts, pint glasses, mugs and scale model Grenadiers. I feel like they will again return some day, but you might check if you have a local dealer to see what they have on offer. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.
the Grenadier is what Land rover should have built.. no up market luxury off roader...these need to go off road physically in the desert and forests not going driving down the blvd in Aspen...Vail...Sun Valley or Deer Valley or Beverly Hills..
Thanks for your comment. I always wonder when viewers comment about the Grenadier being too expensive if they mean too Expensive for what it is, or too expensive for the viewer - or sometimes both! It is a lot. However in this day and age that seems to be a trend. I am seeing new Jeeps for over $100K in the US. I think pricing has all gone a bit crazy. As for the Recaro seats - I wouldn't be surprised to see this resolved and the Recaro's getting back into production. However, I know that they are trying to find a new owner - and not sure if INEOS may be considering that role. Time will tell...
You're wrong. The dealers are ordering the base cars because they are cheaper and have a greater customer base. People are not buying this car because there is an insifficient dealer network out there. There are no repair manuals available in lieu of the lack of dealers and because this car has a reputation for beeping as soon as you cross the speed limit. Is it a correlation that the only car on the us market that beeps at you for going above the speed limit with no way of turning it off is selling poorly? Nah man. ineos also really missed out by not offering the diesel variant of this vehicle. This is a niche car for a niche market. It would have been the only b57 equipped car in north america. Diesels >long range > better for overlanding....:
You make good points! We won't really know until the MY 25's come in to see what dealers are ordering vs. cancelled MY 24 orders, but fully agree about the repair manuals promise not kept and the sparse dealer network. I hear regularly from folks driving more than 3 hours to collect their Grenadier. That would have given me cold feet personally. I think the B57 was a no-go from the start because diesels have fallen out of favor with the government (not so much the buying public). I think the take-up rate would vary regionally, however. Thanks for your thoughtful comments!
You make a good point! The price of the Grenadier was originally supposed to start at $59K and was $73K by the time if became available - that's a lot for any car. I hear from alot of viewers who were disappointed because they were hoping to get one and the price was just too much to justify. But apparently, some folks can. Thanks for your comment.
From the very beginning, even before the launch of the product, it was poorly executed. They didn’t have the right PR team handling it. They were displaying it in the wrong locations, particularly when most of the time they were shown at outdoor expos, where I don’t think the audience who they were targeting was present. The North American president for INEOS, came out of Mercedes-Benz and perhaps he was good getting dealers on board, but that’s where it ended. He’s long gone for personal reasons. Also, it takes a very unique approach to market of vehicle like this. There was a belief that they were going to be marketing this to the G wagon, crowd, possibly true, but in reality this vehicle was not built in designed for this purpose. Sir Jim had different ideas for sure. The price point has been good in my opinion, but they needed to offer a better lease from day one, and they did not. Now they’re offering them for $999 amonth with inception money. I would be driving one right now. They had that in the beginning. I also gave recommendations to the British side about the American market, and obviously those went by the wayside. By the way, I know what I’m talking about, I have owned D90, G-Class, and upper level Wranglers. Americans want real cup holders. Put a speedo in front of the driver. Get a better screen, color and with visibility. Ergonomics inside like a proper armrest and door panel design falls short. Plastics are not great. Wheel and tire packages could have been much better. A great way to upcharge. Overall, the company needs work and someone who’s willing to listen to those who have truck experience, manufacturer experience and product roll out experience. Also, their financial choice and finances products offerings are being reactive, not proactive. In closing I was an original order holder who passed and will see what happens.
Thank you for your thoughtful comments. I can appreciate your waiting to see how things turn out stance, as I don't disagree that some of the build choices and elements are "curious" (trying to be nice). I am enjoying mine, but did really have to go far out of my way to see one in person before I placed my order.
A lot of cars? You are aware that there are other manufacturers that literally have over a years worth of inventory on their lots. This video is nothing better than gross speculation based on a complete lack of facts, doing no one a favor.
I'm sorry that you feel that way. Not my intention to upset anybody. I tried to present what I have been hearing from viewers and dug a little to find truth in what they were reporting. At no time did I - or was I able to - conclude that dealers in fact have too many Grenadiers. However, I believe that many people accepted the hype that this would be a sell out with constricted supply which is not proving to be. But you are most certainly correct that this is nothing compared to other brands. The difference being just how niche is the Grenadier as a vehicle?, and what would constitute too many. I think the bigger issue they face is that a lot of the cars on the ground are base models that are less desirable to off-road enthusiasts which is their targeted market. I'm really glad that you commented as it does contribute to the conversation - even if it says that I don't know what I'm doing. I probably don't. I'm not predicting anything good or bad - just bringing it forward for discussion - and frankly only did that because I received SO many comments about "a lot of cars" sitting on dealer lots - Thank you.
I think this video is very fair, well-researched and informative. 800 in-stock, unsold Grenadiers, if true, would constitute a glut and would help explain the production pause. Best thing Ineous could do is to state that their 2025 models will fix and address the issues cited by owners in the first year run.
Thanks for your comment. You didn't mention whether you're an owner, waiter, interested in the brand, or somewhere in between, but I did make it clear that I was not speculating here and that I made this video in response to viewer comments. The sales data actually comes from an industry source, but I didn't put any numbers on screen as I'm not hanging my hat on my survey of the quantity of vehicles listed for sale at any particular dealer as a correct number that could potentially include pending sale units, etc. I agree with you on your point that I have no idea on what's going on , but I clearly said that in the video. Far be it for me to draw conclusions. I just put it all up for a discussion. Thanks for contributing to the discussion!
I partially agree. I just think that they need to get the word out that this thing exists. I see people daily who ask me what mine is as they have never seen one before. More advertising would not hurt.
The sheer stupidity of this comment makes ones soul numb .. Over priced under equipped- the Dealers order lazy boring colour scheme.. small dealership networks- and there’s was about a hour where is priced about right - but then they to Got stupid price wise ..
Please consider Subscribing if you haven't already. I always forget to ask!😉
Dear Josh
I am from Germany and ordered our Grenadier beginning July 2024.
Estimated delivery November 2024.
On Sep. 19th I got an Information from Lynn Calden because of problems with a supplier and the delay of the delivery of our Grenadier.
I contacted our Dealer and he offered me a car from stock nearly identical with the configuration of our ordered one.
We are waiting now for the delivery of our Grenadier.
So for me, everything went to a perfect solution.
We are glad how they handled this in Germany.
Best wishes!
Congratulations! and thank you for sharing. It sounds like things worked out great for you and that you will be driving your Grenadier soon. Germany has such a great variety of cars, but I think the Grenadier will be a stand out. Good luck!
I’m picking my Fieldmaster up today 🎉
Lucky you.👍
Enjoy!
Awesome, enjoy!
@@alexanderptashnik congrats!!!👏. Enjoy👍
I’m picking mine up next weekend - Regal Ineos Georgia
Agree this is a solid vehicle. My wife calls it our tank and I love driving it. Off-road it feels unstoppable.
Great comment! Everybody who finally sees the Grenadier in person gets a different and more positive opinion and the word "tank" is often heard.
I would agree with you in thinking that 'timing' has been against Ineos. I have owned mine for 18 months, and love the vehicle. I also ordered a high spec. In the UK, there are around 90 vehicles for sale. Only three are close to my spec.
Thanks for your comment. It appears that there are loads of basic Station Wagons available, but like you say there are fewer of the high spec with the desired combination of options available. Happy to hear that you are enjoying your Grenadier!
I just picked up my Grenadier Fieldmaster last Saturday from Red Noland in Colorado Springs. They had told me that Ineos shipped them a bunch of 24s for inventory. I think they had about 50 combined on the lot and in their storage lot. We drove it back from Colorado and got to spend some quality time with it on the way back to AZ. I ordered mine in April and it arrived early September. I’m happy with it and it was everything I was looking for. Of course there are a few things I wish were different but so far so good. Most people I run into still have never heard of it and ask me tons of questions if they see me around the vehicle.
Congratulations! and thanks for commenting. It sounds like you didn't have too long of a wait for yours and that's great too. I hope that you are enjoying it. It does make you feel like a brand ambassador for INEOS when out and about in the Grenadier as I do get a lot of questions too. I'm finding a common question I'm getting from somebody who's never seen a Grenadier before is "Is it electric?" which makes me chuckle. Have fun!
I love my trialmaster. If they can update the tech and a couple other little things the grenadier would be a hit. Absolutely amazing quality. I’ve owned numerous cars and none have ever received this amount attention. Love this channel!
Me too, its a keeper!
No, it will NEVER be a hit. It's a niche vehicle at an expensive price.
@@M1911jlnso are jeep rubicon 392’s and they are selling like crazy.
Thanks for commenting. We don't want to forget that there are loads of happy owners out there, which is quite remarkable for such a young company. I think time will only help them improve, and with the INEOS parental backing insure that they weather any rough times - like the current Recaro situation. Happy to hear that you're enjoying your Trialmaster!
Subscribed! Was genuinely surprised at the end of this video that I was not subscribed as I’ve watched a few of your videos. RUclips does such a good job of recommending your videos even though I’m not a subscriber. Thanks for putting the time in, you’ve clearly put some effort into gathering the numbers you report. I picked up my Grenadier about a month ago, and I love it. I have to admit though, I was absolutely stunned that they would build a car for me, for $500, that I could simply walk away from at any point. That seemed completely bonkers. Having spent a couple of decades in the internet startup space I figured they simply wanted to report high levels of interest in the vehicle to investors, but damn, that was quite the play. I hope they switch to a more sensible approach of getting on the waiting list for $500 but the actual build requires a lot more skin in the game.
Thanks for subscribing! I know it's a forgettable thing, but RUclips doesn't make suggestions even though they watch everything that you watch. I appreciate your comments and it's great to hear from a fellow Grenadier owner who is having a great experience. It will be interesting to see how they migrate the order process now that people can see them before they order them. I think that had a lot to do with the low barrier for the original batch.
One item I didn't hear you mention was the low number of dealerships. Here in Florida there are two: One in Fort Lauderdale - a 250 mile round trip from my home - and one in St. Petersburg - a 300 mile round trip. Both have ample inventory but you really need to be motivated to buy a Grenadier to spend a long day just driving to see one and kick its tires. In my case I had wanted a Grenadier since I first read of Sir James' plan to build it in the Times of London. Recently I found a Fieldmaster on the dealer's lot in St. Pete that had the features I wanted (actually.more than I wanted. Since I'm not planning to go out into the Everglades to jack alligators so I really don't need the winch. But the truck came with one.) So far the Grenadier has proved to be exactly what I expected it to be and I like it more every day. It's not a vehicle for everybody, but it suits me down to the ground.
Completely understand, but don’t forget that It’s a very young manufacturer. Building up the dealers network is not easy, thinking of the kind of vehicle even less easy, and they cannot over invest in dealers before having the needed demand.
Good point! INEOS has only 20 dealers in the US at the moment, and it would be vastly different if they had 10 in every state, etc. So having an oversupply knowing that they are serving a wide area may make that most sense and adding dealers as demand grows so that the dealers can build a solid (sustainable) business. Thanks for commenting.
enjoy those long trips to the dealership and massive depreciation...
@@timw308 Well, I've reached the age where the Grenadier may be the last vehicle I buy. And given that I tend to hold onto cars for the long term - I had my Range Rover for 13 years - depreciation is a non-issue. Yes the dealers are a long way off - for now - but I only drive about 4,000 miles per year, so I'll only have to make those trips every couple of years. In the meantime I can do most of the routine maintenance myself. So now I get to enjoy a remarkable and unique motor. There are some things in life that you just can't put a price on.
@@potkas7 Well said!
enjoyed the video. I actually ordered a Grenadier in October of 23. It got here much sooner than I expected and now it's setting at Sewel Ineos in Dallas waiting on me to get by Defender sold. I still plan on purchasing one when by 90 sells. I do agree with you that the base model doesn't have much on it which is why I built a mix of the two for myself but who knows if I will get that one by the time the Defender is sold. Great video as always
Thanks for your comment. You're Grenadier is probably well kitted and those are the ones that dealers still find demand for. Then, it just boils down to color preference. The un-spec'd basic ones are likely going to be the last to go. Good luck selling your Defender!
If the base models are not selling, possible the maker could buy them back and sell them to NGO;s at loss, but PR gain. That would allow the dealers to buy the models that are selling. At a parking garage, the Grenadier coming was just scrapping the 2m overhead bar. So keep that in mind if you like using covered parking.
Thanks for your comment. Be sure to see my video (if you haven't) where my dealer brought my Grenadier to my high-rise building to test in the parking garage to see that it would fit (spoiler: just barely). But I wasn't going to buy it if I could not park it at home! As for your comment about selling the base models, I can also see a bright future for some of them as service department loaners. That would make alot of customers very happy.
Hi Josh! So you asked about folks that purchased without pre-ordering. WELL we are one of "those people"... LOL! Wife spotted one here in Colorado Springs while we were having another car serviced in Motor City. She was like WHAT is that???? I had no clue until a trailer pulled up with about 6 or so on it. Then the service guy at another dealer told us they were Grenadiers and they are new to the market in the US. VERY fortunate for us...Red Noland has an INEOS dealership within walking distance. We had ZERO CLUE on what a "Grenadier" was or who "INEOS" was. Between my wife first seeing it to the test drive was literally 2 days. Test drove on a Saturday for almost 2 hours (shout out to Craig at Red Noland)....came back on Monday and purchased one. Traded in my beloved 2019 Tacoma OR which had about 10K in mods I put on it and walked off with OUR Grenadier! Fortunately for us the Fieldmaster we purchased ticked off all the boxes for us with some little things I could simply change myself. So in about 2.5 weeks we have put 900 miles on it and this weekend did some testing in the Colorado Mts....Got our MANDATORY pin stripes and this thing performed flawlessly! Taking it up to 12,000' or so above the tree line on mining/fire roads was a blast! MANY folks asked about the Grenadier and while most did not know what it was...some ARE considering one but had never seen one IRL. We spent a TON of time explaining the vehicle and having folks climb on in to see what it is all about!
So count me in for someone who saw one at the beginning of Sep and within a week (doing some LONG nights and days of research crammed into a few days) we purchased and have not looked back!
Congratulations! and thanks for chiming in here. Your experience is one that I think is happening more and more. Didn't know it existed one day, drove home in one the next. Having a dealer nearby is a clincher as you feel covered if anything were to happen mechanically. Enjoy your Grenadier!
@@MyAutomobileObsession "those people" are why the INEOS is a failure...
It’s similar in the UK. They have only registered 200 or so in 2024 up until the end of August. About third of the number sold in the same period last year.
Thanks for adding this!
@@hedydd2 a quick check on how many left confirms 1953 Grenadiers of various specifications have been registered in the uk since 2023
@@CraigMcCarthy-u8v It’s quite possible, since the UK launch and customer deliveries in 2022, not 3. However the figures I’ve seen indicate nearer 1500, but ether way it’s not a lot and considering Ford sell 16,000 pickups in the UK every year., to say the least. There is no denying that sales have fallen off a cliff this year to what is probably the naturally sustainable if not viable number of probably 500 in a full year. The forthcoming increase in license class from 3500 gross to, I believe, 4200kgs will give a massive boost to the Quartermaster, because it will allow it to be rated to carry 1040kgs and therefore qualify for VAT rebate for the first time. It will still be expensive but 20% cheaper than currently which may persuade a few more farmers, utility companies and civil engineers to buy. It currently may well be ‘Built on Purpose’ but it isn’t built or priced to fit the intended 'heavy duty business purpose’. Best of luck to them though and I may yet eventually buy one. If it had been available when I patiently waited for a Defender 110 pickup replacement back in 2000 to 2006, I would have bought one if it was VAT qualifying. However I’m currently running two Rangers and had another, my first, in 2006, after the 110 expired. Currently I would find it hard to justify paying more than £5000 extra on top of a Ranger for a similarly equipped Grenadier, but I would pay that much more and possibly up to £10k more if they could persuade me of significant advantages.
The Vins are now over 22,500 with just under 20,000 sold (global). In 18 months, that is not a bad number considering it is a niche vehicle which only started low levels of advertising just 2 months ago. And no China in that yet.
It does all appear to still be moving forward and that is good news. I think they did reasonably well for bringing the Grenadier out to an (relatively) untested market - and it remains to be see what monthly dealer sales will be as the brand grows. I hope that INEOS is taking this all in stride. Thanks for your comment!
I agree that most vehicles on the lot have no options or obscure options that don't make sense for most people interested in the vehicle. For example, No lockers, no hitch , no heated seats and/or no compass. Most people are buying this vehicle to get out of town not drive around town. Unfortunately, those obscure optioned vehicles will sit on the lot for some time.
I'm wondering if the plain Janes will become the hot lease deal, or perhaps loaner cars for service?
Agree with your assessment. Their problem is likely the base model without front/rear lockers. At the vehicles core, this IS the reason one buys a Grenadier. Trialmaster has that. Fieldmaster does not but many option it. I absolutely love my Trialmaster but I was on this journey from the very beginning-and for those coming on board now…they need to either research or sit down with a representative who can walk people thru these features.
Great points! Thanks for commenting and happy to hear that you're enjoying your Trialmaster!
Also have to remember- there are only a handful of dealerships in the country. So 1) not only do a majority of people not even know about them 2) if you do know and want one, getting to a dealership just for a test drive may be expensive for some. So having 500 cars available in the entire USA isn’t actually bad.
Really good points! If INEOS had a dealer on every corner with many cars sitting on the lot that is a far bigger problem than when there is only one or two dealers in the entire state. That makes the supply not seem overly concerning. I am, however, hearing from potential buyers who are concerned about buying a new car from a new manufacturer with a nearest dealer being 350 miles away. I'm not sure if I would feel as comfortable if that were my circumstance (it's not). Thanks for commenting!
I have had mine since January 3rd. It is not perfect, but I love it.
That's the mantra "It's not perfect, but I love it." Took the words out of my mouth. I think that those who actually bought one have a different perspective than those sitting on the sideline. I think it would be unfortunate for someone to be put off by all the information that is put out there - even some that is put out by those who drive one around the block and then review it! Thanks for commenting!
I was interested in the Grenadier from when it was first announced especially at the price points first mooted. I was happy to see that the vehicle when delivered lived up to its off road and on road performance objectives for the most part. In the last year I've noticed that the American public and motoring media seem to have become much more aware of it, and it is now regularly included in comparison articles, discussions and videos of what off road capable vehicle to buy, with the Grenadier usually ranked at the top of the pile. So it's great to see it getting the recognition that it deserves. However, now that I have retired and am just about to buy a off road capable vehicle for long term 10 to 15 years use I'm getting cold feet on pulling the trigger on the Grenadier....the reasons for this primarily price (yes I know it's built in engineering makes it worth the price and good value); lack of dealers for repairs & service especially if doing an international multiyear tour; concern that might not be long term viable which could leave me holding a lemon; and recognition that there are now other choices which can do a lot of what the Grenadier can do for a lot less $$. It is these considerations, with the cost given most weight, that have resulted in my decision to buy a Lexus GX 550 instead. But I will continue to be a Grenadier Fan Boy/Supporter and strongly look forward to seeing their long term success.
Thanks for commenting - all valid points! It is a bit pricey and unproven, so we'll let time and track record build which may better justify the price. As dealers come on line that will also be helpful. I hear distance from a dealer being a factor for not moving ahead quite often. But it sounds like you'll be enjoying your Lexus - and there's nothing wrong with that!
It’s a fine line to build the supply and sales but keep them under 10,000 units a year to avoid the cafe regulations. If they fixed or improved the main gripes quickly, I’m sure the social feedback, which most buyers listen these days, would improve drastically and sales would pick up, even though they are a little pricey… software updates, maintenance manuals, ability to lift without risk of shaft joint failure or losing the warranty, cup holders, turning radius, return to center, on road focused suspension as an option, higher end or luxury radio option without having to go arcane works for $75k more, etc… the rest is good but some things are putting people off.
Thanks for the great comment! You pretty well nailed my list of things I wish they did better, but still do feel really good about it when I get behind the wheel. Don't like the turning radius, don't like the all of the nanny sounds and beeps, but they got so much right for a 1.0 version. I agree that if they listen carefully - and there are so many opinions out there to filter - they will bring the Grenadier forward and make it even better. That's my hope. As for sales numbers, I think that's all a matter of time, brand awareness, and price.
You did a lot of work to conclude there are over 800 unsold Grenadiers on US dealer lots and that might explain why they have to slow supply.
It’s a very unique, cool car, for, sure.
And maybe you are right about the glut of base models.
Excellent groundwork on your part.
I appreciate your comment. Thanks.
Bang on with the ‘weird’ specced cars.
Often our clients want exactly what they want and they do not often need the car very quickly.
At the beginning we even received stock cars without towball for example, but also cars without reverse camera, diff locks,…
Thanks for your comment. It shows that the growing pains are real...
got a field master 2024 last Friday for 2k dealer incentive and the 2.9apr. lot was full pack of them but saw at least 3 guys interested to buy.
Congratulations! Yes, there are many to be had at the moment and that's lucky for buyers as a year from now this will likely be different once they balance out the supply. Most people really like the Grenadier even if it has a few quirks that we like to call "character" - I think the price puts some of the originally interested buyers off as it costs a pretty penny to get one. But you'll be happy that you did! Thanks for commenting.
@@MyAutomobileObsession yeap, i don't think the company is doing enough to advertise the car. been seating under the Florida weather in a parking lot is not good. Mine had a thick crust of dirt on the roof.
Dealers are sitting on a lot of cars because even before the factory shut down Ineos was gearing up for Quartermasters, So the factory has moved out all the 2024 wagon production through the system and out to dealers to hold them over for months, 3, 4 or more months of sales. My local dealer in July sold more Grenadiers than all their other brands combined, Mercedes, Porsche, Land Rover and Volvo. And at that rate represented less than a month worth of inventory but they still need space and moving cars as fast as possible.
I agree with you. My snapshot of what is available on dealer lots didn't come with a lot of context as we haven't been monitoring it since February. It's hard to say if they have too many or too few, but I received so many comments about cars just "sitting" on dealer lots that it prompted me to lay this out in a video for discussion. I see a bright future for the Grenadier both because it's got good bones but also has good karma. It always receives positive responses when I'm out driving in it. I'm not sure that can be said for every new vehicle out there. Thanks for your comments!
I’m sure Ineos has a plan, the vehicle and the company is brand new and IMO is a revelation , let’s not jump to conclusions and if you love the vehicle like I do let’s keep the news positive.
Remember Ineos Worldwide as a company is BIGGER than McDonald’s worldwide , let’s keep the faith 🇬🇧🇺🇸
Thanks for your comment. Faith not shaken here. I don't see the sky falling anytime soon. We do, however, want to see them make good choices in how they grow the brand and as you mention are well capitalized to take appropriate time to do so. In the end, I think they'll get it right.
Positive titles still draw views, and help with the word spreading.
Thanks for an excellent summation.
Thanks!
Absolutely love my Fieldmaster. I get stopped several times weekly with folks asking me about it and saying how great it looks. Easily one of the best purchases I have made. I secretly like the fact it’s not over saturated with a ton on the road. I use to count how many Wranglers or Broncos I would see on the road….its comical, no thanks. All those owners I catch staring at the Grenadier. I was a little shocked how many on the lot didn’t have the trailer hitch, seems like that should just be standard and made sure mine had it. I opted for no carpet and have the composite floors which in my opinion is actually more premium than carpet.
Thanks for commenting and congratulations on your Fieldmaster. I agree that it's fun to not see Greanadiers on the road beside you all day long. I do find myself getting asked about it regularly - with one of the frequent questions being "Is it electric?".
I remember reading about the Grenadier when it was an idea and seeing bits and pieces on various platforms (advertisements) and it almost seemed impossible that this vehicle would ever come about. Now that it's here, I'm really interested. My main issue is the dealer/service network. I live in Norcal but not in the SF area so the closest dealer is 2 hours (without traffic) away from me. This isn't as much of an issue for purchasing since I can buy anywhere and drive it home, but lack of service is a deal breaker. Until there is a dealer closer to me I'll have to sit on the sidelines.
Your point is a valid one. I pressed go when I found out that I lived really near a dealer which gave me confidence (whether it matters remains to be seen) that if I had troubles that help would be nearby. Sitting on the sidelines is likely appropriate until you follow the experience of others, however I must admit that so far, my car has been running great and it doesn't look like it's going to be one that has the visit the service department every other month. Hold out until you can't stand it, then go with it and enjoy!
Interesting video. I was excited early on about the grenadier and still am. I placed a deposit early and followed the journey assuming I would follow through when they said time to actually order. But as I started building what I wanted it was over 90k and frankly I was too risk adverse to drop that on first year run. Now that people have put some miles on them I was going to get one, but interest rates went way up. If the slow dawn and dealer inventory means there is possible a good deal on money again timing may be right. It to your point, I’ve been checking inventory here and there and I can’t find one exactly what I want so it seems ordering custom is the way to go, maybe they should only sell to order?? I dunno…
You're right. It got a little more expensive than I think anybody really wanted, but those who took the plunge are mostly very happy (there's always a few that can't be pleased). But I do think they will handle ordering differently once they clear up their oversupply of those minimally equipped models that they need to move along. I don't think INEOS will make the same mistake twice, and the oversupply may become a "wait your turn" situation a year (or so) from now. Thanks for commenting!
Good insight and research. Thanks
Thanks!
I am a satisfied owner in Germany. The same volume rules (10,000 units) also apply here. 30,000 vehicles per year, if you include the UK and Australia, is therefore quite realistic.
Thanks for your comment! It's great hearing from happy Grenadier owners in other countries and agree that when looking worldwide, INEOS has a reasonable target. I feel that they are going to do well in the long run.
The Grenadier is nice I like it a lot, being an off roader, My choices would be jeep especially 392 which I’ve owned or the bronco raptor which I now own, Both are incredible, the Grenadier I just recently sat in one I like it a lot I felt right at home sitting in it but it’s expensive and it’s new, parts availability warranty work etc. would be a big concern for me, I really hope grenadier can lower their prices, because getting something loaded and paying close to $100,000 with all the fees you can go buy a loaded jeep or a Bronco with I feel much more capability, with simple modifications the Grenadier can become better and that’s what I like about it it reminds me of the jeep but everything is new there’s not much on the market for it. If they could lower their price is considerable to get it in comparison to a loaded jeep wrangler I feel the grenadier would start doing better
The Ineos is a huge step ahead quality wise
It will be interesting to watch how this all plays out. Thanks for your comments!
Had my Fieldmaster for a year, covering 5000 miles. It had a recall for a module fault. Nothing major
Anyone who knows anything about decent off road 4x4s will appreciate these machines are well designed, beautifully made and perform admirably in pretty much most situations.
I’ve owned Defenders, Discoverys and can tell you the Grenadier blows them apart in pretty much every respect.
There’s a company in the UK now offering brand new Defenders, built to your specification, for £180,000+. Who the hell is going to buy one when you can bag a top notch Grenadier for over £100K less?
IG is here to stay. I love ‘em!
Thanks for your comment!
Trouble is too many influences, and here say. It's a fantastic truck, had mine 16 months and I'd not swap, for towing in Europe, off road work vehicle, that coming from oil and gas exploration, experience of 70 series, hilux and g's. Unimogs and personally owned 4 older defenders. It's a hell of a truck.
That's great to hear about your Grenadier. Thanks for sharing - I appreciate when owners share their experience as I think it helps to dispel that hearsay.
Interesting reflection.
Regarding the vehicle price, one thing that nobody talk about is the production volume impact. A large manufacturer can make the same vehicle at much lower cost, because they get all the components much cheaper due to the volume. Specially if the components are shared with other models of the manufacturer.
Being a small manufacturer is tough also for that. And many parts suppliers don’t even would be interested on Ineos just because the volumes are not interesting for them.
So at the end of the day, as the production cost of the vehicle will be high anyway, Ineos decided to go for everything high quality. So the car is not cheap but it’s high quality everywhere, and there is were the business is.
Another consideration is that Ineos needs still to invest a lot and during long time in marketing, because they are unknown for the most of the people that are not off-road enthusiasts. But even within them, it’s not fully known.
So they need to be careful, so small steps but the correct ones, invest in little by little improvements of the vehicle, invest in get known, and when the business is running well maybe start another model with wider market share
Great comments! I feel like they are moving in the right direction, but external economic headwinds are always an unknown. But as you say small steps, but the correct ones will make this brand a success.
So, I want the lockers, white top, light blue, preferably steel wheels, but whatever on that. Exterior electrical connections, ideally safari windows. So really, I think it works out better just to get a higher model.
That sounds like a great build! But you're right that your requirements may need an order rather than one you can find already available for sale. Good luck!
A physical stock 2024 model will be the one to buy, rather than wait for one in 2025 imo
Agreed. I would search high and low to find what I wanted in a 2024 before taking a number to order a 2025, but I also would not compromise if some key feature that I really wanted wasn't in that 2024. Thanks for your comment!
I've got a tad over 8,000 miles on my Grenadier. I've spent a good share of time off road and I think it's a great truck.
I think the people who ordered a base model without lockers made huge mistake. I think this truck was designed and built for a specific market share which I fall into.
Interest rates could be part of the reason why they aren't selling, but the 2.9% offered now should help.
I was concerened about dealer support, and the longevity of the company. If these trucks become unavailable for sale as new in the US I truly believe the price is going to skyrocket as a used truck.
Right now I think the price is on point for what you get.
The Grenadier is a robust off pavement machine. I enjoy mine very much. Is it perfect, no, but it's the kind of car I want to own.
Thanks for commenting - Great points! I think a lot of people who are holding out are doing so because the dealer is a little too far away for comfort. I think time with Grenadiers on the road not falling apart will be a reassurance.
I had one on order in the early days , a commercial version, cancelled my order when it became known that in the uk HMRC didn’t recognise it a a commercial, that has now be rectified, but in the meantime I bought 3 defender 110 commercial vehicles for my business, I test drove the diesel grenadier 2 weeks ago and didn’t like the way it drove , they didn’t have a petrol version for me to try , so until I do it looks like I’m sticking to the defenders for my business needs
Thanks for sharing this. First, you are the envy of folks in the U.S. who cannot have the diesel version and really wanted it. I was unaware of the commercial status as they also don't bring that version over to the US and the lowest model we have is the Station Wagon. It sounds like you're doing well with your Defenders at the moment, but as INEOS grows you may have better luck with being able to try before you buy and feel confident about your selection. Good luck!
@@laurencefahey3132 new defenders are ok in the uk until you wake up one morning and find that someone has stolen them with a lap top and also only 3yrs warranty cover from JLR UK, Ineos uses an old skool ignition key and has 5yrs unlimited mileage warranty bumper to bumper. I used to buy the new Defender for business but after two were stolen and the warranty expired I went to Ineos and have never looked back to be honest
There's only one dealership in my country that's bringing in the Grenadier and they just launched it a couple months ago. Trouble is, this particular dealership has dropped deals with other brands for less than a production halt, so I'm worried that if I get one now and they call off their deal with Ineos I'd be stuck with no dedicated local maintenance. Sure, I could get it serviced anywhere, but I'd still want it to be under warranty for at least the first few years.
Thanks for your comment. I understand your concern, but think that if your local dealer folded, INEOS Auto NA would select another in the general region. They initially had 150 applicants and chose 20 for round 1. Only one of those was unable to meet requirements and open (Silicon Valley) and has recently been replaced by a new one in the Bay Area. I'm hanging my hat on that 5 year warranty and keeping fingers crossed that business is enough to sustain each dealer as they were required to establish stand alone store for the brand - so a big investment.
"Much ado about nothing." - a situation where a great deal of effort, energy, or commotion is expended over something of little or no importance.
Don't overthink the Grenadier inventory in dealer's lots and draw false conclusions. My local Chevrolet dealer has 45 new Silverado trucks in stock. The Ford dealer has 48 new Broncos in stock. BMW, 47 new vehicles in stock. Does this alone mean they are not selling well? No.
The Grenadier is a purpose designed vehicle for purpose driven buyers with specific needs. Don't expect them to be flying off the dealer lots to the typical 4x4 enthusiast.
Great point. I made this video in response to the reactions I were receiving. But I think you are correct that the sky is not falling, but I think original fans expected the Grenadier to be an instant sell out with very limited availability and now see that maybe there wasn't such a need to rush. I chalk it up to growing pains for INEOS. Thanks for commenting.
Im not sure how fast they are selling, so it’s hard to tell by a number of cars if that’s a lot or not. I do think the truck is great and I’d probably be in one if I had greater confidence in Ineos. Yes they are part of a big conglomerate, but I think they botched their rollout a little (should have asked for a little more commitment at order time), don’t seem to have a lot of depth or timeliness to their tech support, and parts are expensive and hard to come by. Now that they’ve shuttered the production line it will be difficult to get all of that labor and supply chain orchestrated to get that moving again, and that may lead to more economic and supply issues. I hope Lynn Calder has a plan cause I really want this brand to succeed, but it’s just a bit too fuzzy for me to place a very big bet that they will be around I ten or twenty years (I want to keep this for a while).
I think you're right about asking for a bigger commitment, but on the initial orders they just didn't have anything to preview other than photos and some prototype videos, so I think that is why they were so flexible. Now that one can test drive a Grenadier and see it up close, I might expect they would find ways of preventing punters from ordering combinations that don't make sense. It may also be easier to order now that all of the options are demonstrable. Since the production shutdown, INEOS launched the Chinese market, so they show no signs of slowing down. It will be interesting to watch as there may be growing pains, however I think they will succeed as the product is good. Thanks for your comments.
How many warranty repairs have you had? Asking because I am 250 miles from the nearest dealer
No problems yet. I'm 4 months and almost 2,000 miles in (I don't drive a lot...). They did, however made a couple of corrections before I collected the vehicle as I did a long test drive and we spotted a couple of things that needed attention (rear door sensor and a/c refrigerant) - my recommendation is to plan an overnight visit on weekdays where you can come out for an extended test drive on day one with the proviso that you'll collect it on day 2 giving them the opportunity to address any niggles that you might discover. My local dealer is great and after addressing the list we came up with I have not needed to bring it back in. However, it would have been a first/quick trip back had they not addressed those discovered items. The door sensor somtimes would not let me lock the car as it didn't think the door was fully closed. The A/C blew hot - both were rather obvious in my opinion. I get a lot of feedback from owners and most are quite happy, but the dealer is what makes a good thing great - so do a little homework on things to be on the lookout for and plan accordingly. Other than that, I do know of owners who literally had Grenadiers delivered to them from a far away dealer on a flatbed and had no issue. I'm just a cautious guy who likes a backup plan. Good Luck!
I ordered a 1924 on August first. Was expecting delivery Jan. or Feb.
But who knows now🤷🏻♂️
What's a couple months after waiting for a hundred years?
You will enjoy your 1924 whenever it finally arrives. If anything, I think those may be prioritized when the production ramps back up since you cannot buy one sitting in inventory - like the Quartermaster. Congrats and hang in there - It'll be here before you know it!
With all the issues even the best of the trad manufacturers are having lately, I can’t blame folks for being plain afraid of taking the chance.
Agreed. It's a lot of money to take that chance too. I thought long and hard before I decided to go forward. No regrets, however.
Sales are actually on the way up. I sell them , I know.
That's great to hear. I hope you're enjoying meeting all of the folks who waited and waited and waited for the day that their Grenadier finally arrived. Most people who actually own one are quite fond of them. I know that people see mine and it's the first time they've ever seen one. Can't tell you how many times I've referred them to my local dealer. Thanks for commenting!
I think sales estimates were set too high given the tiny number of dealers in the USA. Awareness is still very low in the States .In Europe, with small roads and tight spaces they would increase sales penetration if they offered a SWB 3 door as do Toyota with Land cruiser and the EU built LR Defender.
Good points. They had to start somewhere and I gather they will sort their expectations. In the end, I just want them to do well (i.e., have a healthy business and dealer network).
What I see at the two closest dealers in my area, is that the units on the lot are mostly "orders" that people did not end up buying. They are spec'd out with weird options that dont make sense, or are missing the critical items. Who wants a winch without lockers? Who wants a $90k spec'd unit without towing option and without leather, but has every other option and a red frame. That's what I'm seeing here (New England). I have been looking for one with the options I want, I've viewed 50 plus units and none of them have them. I'm not looking for anything out of the ordinary, but I do want some of the good things: leather, lockers, Assy power, towing, prem audio. I've decided to wait for remote start, removed speed warning, and repair manuals (as promised). I'm not holding my breath.... If those are not availble by 2026, GX 550 here I come.
Thanks for commenting. If you have time on your side and can wait for a bespoke model (that's custom order to us US folk), then I'd choose that as you can also get the color you want. Just an unknown wait is all. I have been hearing from viewers who have similar experiences in finding Grenadiers available with odd combinations of options, so I think that is what is contributing to the unsold ones. In the end, I hope you get what you are looking for!
@@MyAutomobileObsession Thank you for the info. I'm not in a rush to buy yet. I was still waiting to see some info between the GX550 and the Grenadier, so I did a 2yr lease on another vehicle to give me some time. I prefer the overall look and functions of the Grenadier but do have a few reservations at this time. 1) That the company is still very new and may not stay around causing a parts supply issue in the future. 2) The fact that the closest dealership is two states away (about 3 hours), so dealer maintenance is a concern. 3) Some of the weird/annoying features or lack of features, speed warning, no remote start, and I've been told no keyless entry even though I see lock and unlock on the key fob. 4) I’m seeing a increase in "used" units with 3000-8000 miles popping up for sale, makes me wonder why they would turn them in so soon. I have yet to drive one because there are NONE in my area. The price tag is a deterrent as well, with the GX about $10k less for the unit I'd want. I want to own my next purchase for 10-15 years of daily use and would love something like this a lot longer, but there’s no data of reliability yet. I’m not a fan of BMW engines, and wish we had options for that. Thanks for your channel, yes I subscribed :)
@@dmck2533 I certainly understand any reluctance to push hard to get one when you haven't even been behind the wheel yet. I remember driving 150 miles to the desert near the Arizona border to some Timbuktu offroad course just for the opportunity to attend an INEOS prototype event and get 10 minutes behind the wheel of a Grenadier, and to see if physically in person. So, it sounds like you made good steps in setting a comfortable backup while you wait and watch how things develop with the dealer network. INEOS just announced adding 4 more this past week. Two have opened, and 2 still pending. Oh, and yes you can unlock the car remotely with the key - the fob has a lock and an unlock button. It's just us modern people unlock the car and then put the key back in our pockets and get in the car to find out that the key is needed in the ignition to turn the car on...
Speed warming; you can turn off in the settings according to another video
So I just learn that those that paid $450 to custom order back out and that is why I notice so many available variants at Rusnak, yes I was looking at Trailmaster and test drove it. I was quoted $94k, I own a Jeep Rubicon, Discovery 5 and LR3 but after going various Ineos youtube owners, I notice I have to spend a few mods like the stabilizer, fast forward , I decided to get a 2021 Defender P400 with a lot of options I really wanted and for half the cost $52k instead $94k, I still find it appealing but not at that price.
Thanks for commenting. I know that there are lots of folks who wanted one, but want to wait and see how a new company with a new vehicle performs before plunking down so much money. Yes, there is a lot of trust involved. I went through the process myself when they called me and told me my order was arriving. Some took the plunge and others passed. But, you've got some fun transportation to use while you watch how this turns out. I like the Defender 110 P400 - I seriously considered one myself.
I'm very interested in the IG as an upgrade from my 4Runner. And...a dealer just opened up a few miles from me! My concern is the survivability of the dealership given the tiny sales volumes. They've been open a month or so, and have over 20 vehicles on the lot. It seems they've only sold one or two. Even if the sales pick up, it's hard to see how the numbers work given the dealers around them sell more cars in a day than they will in a month.
Thanks for your comment. This boils down to the cup half full/empty side of you. Many owners would take comfort in a local dealer, but your concerns are valid about dealership stability. I feel like INEOS vetted them carefully and if they just opened have had the opportunity to see some ups and downs. If your dealer has other stores with other brands, that would be a good sign, as getting an INEOS dealer will one day be a feather in their cap. Once upon a time, Land Rover went through this in the US (back in the 90's)...few dealers taking a risk that it will all work out.
Do you know what a late Defender with metallic paint and a snorkel had by way of features?
Thanks for your question. Unfortunately, I don't know the answer. I wasn't certain if your question was relating to original Defender or Defender 2, however if you're asking about Defender 2, I would guess that pricing would be similar or higher as Land Rover loves to have a base model with minimal features that offers everything as an add-on option which can really crank up the price. Presently the Defender has more electronic bells and whistles that INEOS chose not to offer on the Grenadier.
I was sceptic about Ineos due to watch the uk market and what this car was made for. More I watch movies about those who actually use it off road like Ronny Dahl I want this car more but I think the price is way too high compare to what you get for while compare to other cars. In Uk prices slowly drop for used ones and you can get use fully equip rough and smooth pack with tow bar from 2023 for £53000 with 4000 miles on clock. I hope that drop to £40000 in 2025 where I will see point to buy it. I don’t see point to spend £79000 for new while year after sell value will be around £57000 so looking for drop in price much better is to get use one. In UK you can get 0% apr if you pay half cash for new one I think it is still not good deal as the price is way too high of this car.
Thanks for your comments. I guess time will tell what the resale market will look like. In the early years, I think there may be more available based on punters who bought before they could really spend time with it. As time goes on, I think all future buyers will be more tuned in on the Grenadier and most likely to hang onto them for a longer time. So we'll see what the future holds.
800+ trucks is about $70mm retail in unsold vehicles in one country. That is a lot.
That is the question of the day - is that a lot? I would tend to agree with you, but I'm seeing good arguments on both sides that it's is and it isn't. My concern was more with the amount of base models with no options that I think will be a tougher sell. Thanks for commenting!
I had an interesting thing happen. My grenadier order on the website which I ordered in June says estimated delivery quarter 1 2025. I got the email from the CEO explaining the production halt and that my delivery would be further delayed. Two days later I got an email from my dealership saying the website is inaccurate, my truck had already been made and was on its way over to the states for an October delivery. Seems disorganized.
Or seems like a bad email list manager? That is great news if your Grenadier was built before the shutdown as you will be a rare bird out there for several months until production resumes. Congratulations (in advance), and thanks for your comment!
@@MyAutomobileObsession by the way love your page. It’s getting me through the anticipation and waiting. Odd that the build site is so inaccurate. Ive been watching it weekly waiting for a sign that it was in production. Almost bought another one online from inventory when I got the CEO announcement.
@@VTFIREHORSE Thanks for the kind words. If you've never waited for a new order car before, you'll find that it's actually a really fun period. You find yourself taking the time to learn all about it and will appreciate it more once you finally get it.
Do you have the month by month sales for 2024. I wonder what the trend line says.
Thanks for the question. My report had May, June, July of this year and each month was just a hair under 500 units each month. So a relatively stable trend. I just think they were expecting a tad higher. I didn't spend too much time on exacting the numbers as while these are industry driven reports, I'm unsure about accuracy or margin or error.
A lot not the grenadiers available are regular grenadiers. A lot are not trialmasters or with adequate options. This car without the lockers & auxiliary package is really not doing it justice
Thanks for your comment - It will be interesting to see how those units find buyers. I'm sure they eventually will.
St Pete Crown Ineos must have at least 50-70 on the lot. As of Friday. Seemed like a lot of them to be floor planned. Would be a great time to start on some end of year discounts?
That's what everybody is wondering. Will they mark 'em down to move 'em out? or will the Recaro caused factory shut down make dealers less willing to let them go so easy? It does seem like a lot of Grenadiers, but maybe if you consider that there are only a small number of dealers that even have the car for sale, it looks less desperate. Time will tell. Thanks for your comments!
@@MyAutomobileObsessionupdate, this weekend, there were far less. I’d say around 30 or so. Was hoping to find one with white exterior, leather and red frame-but I want the side steps and ladder and hitch-many of the ones on the lot seemed stripped down.
Because they put a weird left foot step on the driver's side! I can't sit straight in that thing!
Hi There & Thanks for your comment. You're one of the unlucky ones who lives in a right-hand drive country as this has to do with the design of the BMW engine and the exhaust manifold (if I have that correct) comes out of the right side and causes that bump in the footwell. It is a bit amazing that they couldn't manage it better in the design phase (I'm sure they tried!) but all of the viewers in the U.S. are likely wondering what you're on about. Seriously, I have heard this often and for those that it affects - it really is a bother. I hope it doesn't ruin your fun with the Grenadier!
Some of those registrations are for loaner and demo trucks, so not reg’d to an end user
You're right. I didn't post loads of numbers or specific dealer inventories as I didn't want to overstate my case in calling anybody out. But we know each dealer has 2 demos (minimum) and I wish mine would punch a few for service loaners as they don't currently offer one to customers (a bridge I have yet to cross). Thanks for commenting.
Bring the price down.
Thanks for your comment. Now the hard part, how will they do that? What should they change in order to make it cheaper?
Seems like Ineos is in trouble. I'm sure they can get seats elsewhere, recaro supplied to many other manufacturers who are continuing operations
Thanks for commenting. I have faith that they'll sort this out and likely keep Recaro. During my research, I learned that supplier bankruptcies are a common thing in the auto industry and this is just a very public bump in the road for INEOS. Time will tell...
The dealer in Lauderdale has a ton of them.
Thanks for noting this.
Sir Jim had a solution for Land Rover, but they didn’t wanna listen, and it ended up in court where he won.
He did. I wonder how that would have turned out had they said yes.
I disagree..most people want this for off roading so the base model with perhaps just lockers is the golden product..not one with luxury features like carpeting..leather..sunroof..
Thanks for your comment. I think people see this as a problem because you only get a central locker with the base model, and have to option the front and rear as a "pack" at time of order, so they are not included - leaving the basic Grenadier rather basic.
Wouldn’t a used one be a dealer car that’s been a loaner or test driver.
Very likely and good point! Thanks for commenting.
A friend lost his ass on one ... hey if you don't mind losing a lot of money in the name of driving something niche go for it.
Thanks for your comment. I don't know that I would ever expect to do well in getting out of a recently new vehicle - especially when supply for new ones is plentiful. Time will tell how this plays out. Who knows, years from now it could become a collectible if INEOS changes course too radically and people go searching for these early versions. Let's revisit in 20 years...
There’s an affordability crisis, … $80.000 car …? , is a solid car with a solid price, are you living in a bubble, your talking about this car like is a bargain.
You make a valid point. But I have learned to be amazed that in the toughest of times there seem to be many who are willing and able to splash cash on an $80,000 / expensive car, or a nice new (fill in the blank). Thanks for commenting.
@@MyAutomobileObsession l know, lm amazed too, seeing Ineos Grenadier in Fortlauderdale’s porche’s houses where the Holman dealer resides, between Holmans Rolls Royce and Holman Vinfast , closed to a building in Las Olas boulevard where a Townhouse inside the building is renting for $18.000 monthly and they are building a new condominium designed by Pininfarina, l celebrate to be wealthy and to have resources and this a great car with a great BMW engine, but l don’t know what’s car manufacturers are thinking with those prices even for middle class, that’s why Stellantis destroyed Dodge, Chrysler, Jeep, the MSRP of those brands when up 40% and Carlos Tabares was making annually more the 4 millions, now they are in the edge of a bankruptcy and the Chinese showing interest to buy those brands.
1: It is NOT a day to day easy driving car. 2: most of them from the dealers lot are NOT Hard Core Off-roader Equipped either! SO why bother with it？
Good and valid points. Thanks for commenting!
90k msrp is a tough sell
Thanks for your comment. I think our original expectation was around $60K, but that was in 2020 when they briefly mentioned that number. As time went by they kept quiet until they were ready to open the order books, and there was a lot of sticker shock. Of course they will argue that the starting price is $73K, but that is not the model of choice for just about anyone. It will be interesting to see how this progresses....
Land Rover stopped the production defender because they couldn’t meet safety and emissions for Europe.
You're correct. They stopped bringing it to the US in the late 90's for that reason, but didn't fully discontinue in the UK until 2016. It is an expensive undertaking to meet all of the various country regulations for safety and emissions, but it CAN be done if it makes financial sense to proceed. I just feel that Land Rover didn't think so. Thanks again for your comment.
They need to buy Recaro and get back underway or the brand will vaporize
Thanks for your comment. I'm in agreement with you that this needs to be remedied before people begin to not care and the momentum slows even more. Hopefully we will hear something positive soon.
In Germany the Grenadier was a big flop..
Thanks for commenting. I've been hearing mixed reviews from German viewers. Those who drive them really like the Grenadier. But that doesn't mean it's an overall success.
Yeah right. Biggest point is, the car is to expensive for the most people! Of course the the car is extreme good in offroad, but 80k € is to much!
Where did you get that tee shirt? I need one.
INEOS sold them a couple of years ago and have since stopped. They used to have a link on the website and sold a few shirts, pint glasses, mugs and scale model Grenadiers. I feel like they will again return some day, but you might check if you have a local dealer to see what they have on offer. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.
👍
Thanks!
the Grenadier is what Land rover should have built.. no up market luxury off roader...these need to go off road physically in the desert and forests not going driving down the blvd in Aspen...Vail...Sun Valley or Deer Valley or Beverly Hills..
You're right! But doesn't that take the fun out of it for those in Beverly Hills? 😉
Too expensive and now without Recaro seats.
Thanks for your comment. I always wonder when viewers comment about the Grenadier being too expensive if they mean too Expensive for what it is, or too expensive for the viewer - or sometimes both! It is a lot. However in this day and age that seems to be a trend. I am seeing new Jeeps for over $100K in the US. I think pricing has all gone a bit crazy. As for the Recaro seats - I wouldn't be surprised to see this resolved and the Recaro's getting back into production. However, I know that they are trying to find a new owner - and not sure if INEOS may be considering that role. Time will tell...
@@MyAutomobileObsession A Grenadier starts at 180000 euros in the Netherlands.
You're wrong. The dealers are ordering the base cars because they are cheaper and have a greater customer base. People are not buying this car because there is an insifficient dealer network out there. There are no repair manuals available in lieu of the lack of dealers and because this car has a reputation for beeping as soon as you cross the speed limit. Is it a correlation that the only car on the us market that beeps at you for going above the speed limit with no way of turning it off is selling poorly? Nah man. ineos also really missed out by not offering the diesel variant of this vehicle. This is a niche car for a niche market. It would have been the only b57 equipped car in north america. Diesels >long range > better for overlanding....:
About 50% of Grenadiers come with the B57 in the UK
You make good points! We won't really know until the MY 25's come in to see what dealers are ordering vs. cancelled MY 24 orders, but fully agree about the repair manuals promise not kept and the sparse dealer network. I hear regularly from folks driving more than 3 hours to collect their Grenadier. That would have given me cold feet personally. I think the B57 was a no-go from the start because diesels have fallen out of favor with the government (not so much the buying public). I think the take-up rate would vary regionally, however. Thanks for your thoughtful comments!
how can people afford this, everybody is crying high food prices,
You make a good point! The price of the Grenadier was originally supposed to start at $59K and was $73K by the time if became available - that's a lot for any car. I hear from alot of viewers who were disappointed because they were hoping to get one and the price was just too much to justify. But apparently, some folks can. Thanks for your comment.
Here you go again lol😅 your last video received a lot of negative comments with your speculative pricing 😂
Thanks for your comment. I don't take the comments as negative. I take them as "constructive criticism" 😉
how can people afford these trucks,
Indeed. (see my other reply). Thanks for posting!
From the very beginning, even before the launch of the product, it was poorly executed. They didn’t have the right PR team handling it. They were displaying it in the wrong locations, particularly when most of the time they were shown at outdoor expos, where I don’t think the audience who they were targeting was present. The North American president for INEOS, came out of Mercedes-Benz and perhaps he was good getting dealers on board, but that’s where it ended. He’s long gone for personal reasons. Also, it takes a very unique approach to market of vehicle like this. There was a belief that they were going to be marketing this to the G wagon, crowd, possibly true, but in reality this vehicle was not built in designed for this purpose. Sir Jim had different ideas for sure. The price point has been good in my opinion, but they needed to offer a better lease from day one, and they did not. Now they’re offering them for $999 amonth with inception money. I would be driving one right now. They had that in the beginning. I also gave recommendations to the British side about the American market, and obviously those went by the wayside. By the way, I know what I’m talking about, I have owned D90, G-Class, and upper level Wranglers. Americans want real cup holders. Put a speedo in front of the driver. Get a better screen, color and with visibility. Ergonomics inside like a proper armrest and door panel design falls short. Plastics are not great. Wheel and tire packages could have been much better. A great way to upcharge. Overall, the company needs work and someone who’s willing to listen to those who have truck experience, manufacturer experience and product roll out experience. Also, their financial choice and finances products offerings are being reactive, not proactive. In closing I was an original order holder who passed and will see what happens.
Thank you for your thoughtful comments. I can appreciate your waiting to see how things turn out stance, as I don't disagree that some of the build choices and elements are "curious" (trying to be nice). I am enjoying mine, but did really have to go far out of my way to see one in person before I placed my order.
Economics.
Indeed.
Simple, it’s a niche vehicle and very expensive. The other stories are diversions.
Great point and I agree. Thanks for your comment.
A lot of cars? You are aware that there are other manufacturers that literally have over a years worth of inventory on their lots. This video is nothing better than gross speculation based on a complete lack of facts, doing no one a favor.
I'm sorry that you feel that way. Not my intention to upset anybody. I tried to present what I have been hearing from viewers and dug a little to find truth in what they were reporting. At no time did I - or was I able to - conclude that dealers in fact have too many Grenadiers. However, I believe that many people accepted the hype that this would be a sell out with constricted supply which is not proving to be. But you are most certainly correct that this is nothing compared to other brands. The difference being just how niche is the Grenadier as a vehicle?, and what would constitute too many. I think the bigger issue they face is that a lot of the cars on the ground are base models that are less desirable to off-road enthusiasts which is their targeted market. I'm really glad that you commented as it does contribute to the conversation - even if it says that I don't know what I'm doing. I probably don't. I'm not predicting anything good or bad - just bringing it forward for discussion - and frankly only did that because I received SO many comments about "a lot of cars" sitting on dealer lots - Thank you.
I think this video is very fair, well-researched and informative. 800 in-stock, unsold Grenadiers, if true, would constitute a glut and would help explain the production pause. Best thing Ineous could do is to state that their 2025 models will fix and address the issues cited by owners in the first year run.
So pure speculation, you have no idea what’s going on, even with the numbers you have plucked out of the air.
Thanks for your comment. You didn't mention whether you're an owner, waiter, interested in the brand, or somewhere in between, but I did make it clear that I was not speculating here and that I made this video in response to viewer comments. The sales data actually comes from an industry source, but I didn't put any numbers on screen as I'm not hanging my hat on my survey of the quantity of vehicles listed for sale at any particular dealer as a correct number that could potentially include pending sale units, etc. I agree with you on your point that I have no idea on what's going on , but I clearly said that in the video. Far be it for me to draw conclusions. I just put it all up for a discussion. Thanks for contributing to the discussion!
@@MyAutomobileObsession utter speculation, what an absolute waste of time and shit, clickbait content. Don't give up your day job.
Folks just aren’t interested
I partially agree. I just think that they need to get the word out that this thing exists. I see people daily who ask me what mine is as they have never seen one before. More advertising would not hurt.
The sheer stupidity of this comment makes ones soul numb .. Over priced under equipped- the Dealers order lazy boring colour scheme.. small dealership networks- and there’s was about a hour where is priced about right - but then they to Got stupid price wise ..
While not everyone agrees, it is an interesting situation that INEOS faces.