This was great! Speaking about the importance of parts: this is why I strongly believe in companies that develop/ make their own parts. Best example of this: Audio Note UK. The majority of other companies use off-the- shelf parts, which are often very limited as they are designed to meet much different standards/ criteria than quality of sound.
Thank you very much for answering my question which I knew would be a great challenge to answer. This all goes back to an initial question I had many years ago about how a preamplifier works and what all those capacitors are doing inside this box. A poster diagram with comments narrating how a preamplifier works is something I still would love to see. Capacitors have a great influence to the sound of a preamp. Your video raises a lot of issues and expands awareness and of course leads to more questions. The Conrad Johnson gat preamp has a lot of very large capacitors and your video certainly helps clarify what's going on. Not sure I understand why there are so many capacitors in a gat and whether they are dedicated to separate areas of the frequency range or whether they all work together. Thank you very much
My new version of my speakers, a few of the differences are the upgraded networks and internal wires, same drivers both horn and woofer. Incredible subtlety with so much to be appreciated.
A thousand, million or billion! Or just very difficult to quantify … You are so right that bad amps covers most of the differences! Just changed all my amps to pure SE Class A and DHT pre this week, now even shuttle changes are very audio able.
There are no electrons jumping between the plates of a capacitor. In direct current electrons gather at one plate, creating an electric field that pushes the electrons on the other side of the plate; very quickly this stops the direct current from passing, because the voltage across the capacitor can only push so many electrons to one side of the plate. In an alternating current, on the other hand, higher frequencies are let through while lower ones are stopped. Again, no electrons pass through from one plate to the other-only electromagnetic energy. The insulator (or dielectric) matters in the way that it responds to electromagnetic fields, but it should always prevent electrons from traveling across. A discharge across the plates of a capacitor would be disastrous!
Thank you Terrance for the important correction! The bit I wanted to convey is that the entirety of the field (that corresponds to the AC signal) has to travel through the insulator, and thereby the insulator has a profound effect on the electric field, of the charge and discharge properties.
Absolutely correct. Capacitors only charge up and then discharge again, depending on the electric circuit. In DC power supplies an electrolytic capacitor will hold the charge until a load is attached. In AC circuits the capacitor will charge and discharge at the rate of the signal frequency.
Looks like some of the people replying understand how a cap works. What you have to remember also is farads or micro farads are a time based measurement, and how long it takes it to charge and dis charge is what allows current to flow in the rest of the circuit. So since current never actually passes thru it the only thing that affects freq. is how long, not what it's made of.
How the different dielectrics respond is all compensated for in the rating of the cap, .022 poly, is .022. ceramic. same time to ch, dis ch., same freq. Differences in sound are from variation in value. Since I do a lot of amp tone shaping I measure a lot of caps and they are all over the place. Many times not even within their specified tolerance.
@@bradt.3555indeed. If the rated capacity is the same , the rated esl is the same , if inductance is the same , then there is no difference. What them audiofools hear is simply real world capaciotrs are not ideal capacitors by any means. Where small differences go large , are not the crossovers. But anywhere before the amplifier. As any effect of a difference will be amplified by the amplifier.
Great Job RWA ! I agree about caps , I was a Vintage fanatic for a long time mainly Sansui/Marantz But 1st time i recapped my ole Marantz 2270 from 1974 wow what a change the amp sounded more modern i lost that vintage flavor , One of my bestfriends who is an electrical engeener said it best they don't make caps like they use to caps use to be much bigger in size not saying ones better than the another just saying they sound different And this is why you have vintage purest who don't want recapping done even though it can be risky . actually sold the Marantz after recap and bought another 1 Thats never been touched except for service .
I'm enjoying your videos and wondering if you would consider a "tutorial" video about what to look for inside amps, dacs, etc for capacitors that would yield sonic improvement if changed out.. what type of capacitor to look for as candidates (identifying the different types) and which brands and/or types to consider for replacement.
I don't know any that's cheap and as good or better than an Obbligatto or Miflex... There are the Russian teflon caps which I can think of, they sound quite an upgrade from a generic cap, but they sound seriously broken and distorted compared even to Obbligattos....
“When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind; it may be the beginning of knowledge, but you have scarcely, in your thoughts advanced to the stage of science.” - Lord Kelvin
Harvey Rosenberg (NYAL and Futterman OTL) wrote a cool article on assembling your own cable using silver wire in a litz configuration a laquarering each wire and weaving a silk sleeve over each bound group, 1 for + and another bundle for the - and a third bundle, again in silk sleeve for the ground. He even proposed multiple bundles for each task (+/-/ground). It was I think in his second published Quad Owners Club magazine. He was also a big proponent of paper in oil, the kind that are banned for fabricating your crossover
Janos, Thank for another interesting presentation. Will you be covering the usefulness of electrolytics with higher quality bypass capacitors in the future? B&W and others seem to have used this successfully. They describe it in a white paper. Thanks again!
I can recommend bypassing a good capacitor with an excellent one, that will be almost always a significant improvement. However, bypassing a bad capacitor with a small value good often creates a very bad situation, with parts of the frequency range behaving radically differently. (You have fast and clear high frequencies due to the bypass cap, but sluggish, muddled, distorted and noisy lows and mids due to the poor main capacitor).
I once had a friend to lend me his nord ost valhalla LS cables in the 2K range, when new. I heard a pleasant improvement in certain frquences. But is it worth it? My pal sold 'm for 600.
What You last said, makes me wonder. Capacitors like all other circuit parts were chosen in measurements for a reason. So if You recommend just a larger capacitor the whole circuit will work differently, will have a different output.
Ouch, I hoped I was clear in the video, apparently not. Exact same value capacitors of different brands / construction transmit energy preferentially at different frequency bands. I hope this description is better than the one I tried to convey in the video. Thank you for your comment asking for clarification!
13:45 "everything must go thru that insulator: ..electrons jump thru the plates" Are you saying that electrons flow thru the dielectric (insulator) in a capacitor ???? If that is the case does it not mean that the cap is defective???
DC does not flow through a capacitor. We can have some leakage. But you must look at the circuit around the capacitor. We get a displacement of electrons as it flows from one plate through circuit to other plate.and back and so on .
Nothing goes through a cap unless it's a short, once charged it's a DC battery waiting to be discharged . They only conduct AC which oscillates polarity when closed circuit . If you put DC in with capacitors current only flows until it's full then it's open circuit eg AC in caps can filter out AC ripple to DC = zero frequency . Charge and discharge nothing goes through the plates , it's oscillating voltage and current . Meter set on DC Caps are open circuit ,why?
You have described what capacitors do very well. They show open circuit because the plates are not connected, separated by insulator. Hence, DC cannot flow as you have described. Meter shows open circuit, because it is open, there's a layer of insulation between the capacitor plates.
A common controversial subject in general is, Coloration is bad. Colorations are just changes in frequency, EQ. Everything in audio is colored... cables are no diffrent. I make cables that are so colored per say. But they are so amazing in coloration, hehe. Ok... my question why are so called colorations a BAD thing? Am I missing something. Are certain folks misusing the term? Im an alternative type of EEE, and I strongly disagree with most recording engineers.... Cables are NOT snake oil. I invented an alternative technology that clearly demonstrates this. hehehe
@@realworldaudio can you pls give me your opinion on EQ and coloration with cables. What i hear are not so much any if this, but less distortion, darker background, more dynamics and higher levels of transparency. I mean without true fancy cables a system just doesnt sound its best!!! Im lucky i must say that im a fancy cable designer, my cables cost only less than $10 to modify etc.... But they run circles around the 20k cables... patent pending technology...
This is not a scientifically based explanation. It basically says that different capacitors sound different because they are different. The subjective descriptions, if true, are all explainable in terms of physical parameters and objective measures. For example, the supposed power spectrum alterations must all have their basis in changes in capacitance, resistance, reactance, etc. None of that is discussed and no objective, reliable, and valid data are offered. Subjective reports after changing interconnects are not data.
Valid comment, very good observation. What I provide here is information for users. What to choose for a specific purpose. This is also data. It is entirely useless for electrical engineers who want to build critically tuned mega/gigahertz circuits, yet an important guide for human beings who want to specifically voice their stereo systems. Thanks for commenting!
This was great!
Speaking about the importance of parts: this is why I strongly believe in companies that develop/ make their own parts. Best example of this: Audio Note UK. The majority of other companies use off-the- shelf parts, which are often very limited as they are designed to meet much different standards/ criteria than quality of sound.
Thank you very much for answering my question which I knew would be a great challenge to answer. This all goes back to an initial question I had many years ago about how a preamplifier works and what all those capacitors are doing inside this box. A poster diagram with comments narrating how a preamplifier works is something I still would love to see. Capacitors have a great influence to the sound of a preamp. Your video raises a lot of issues and expands awareness and of course leads to more questions. The Conrad Johnson gat preamp has a lot of very large capacitors and your video certainly helps clarify what's going on. Not sure I understand why there are so many capacitors in a gat and whether they are dedicated to separate areas of the frequency range or whether they all work together. Thank you very much
My new version of my speakers, a few of the differences are the upgraded networks and internal wires, same drivers both horn and woofer. Incredible subtlety with so much to be appreciated.
A thousand, million or billion! Or just very difficult to quantify … You are so right that bad amps covers most of the differences! Just changed all my amps to pure SE Class A and DHT pre this week, now even shuttle changes are very audio able.
Glad to hear of the improvements! :)
@@realworldaudio yes none with DSP and class D etc.! Thanks
There are no electrons jumping between the plates of a capacitor. In direct current electrons gather at one plate, creating an electric field that pushes the electrons on the other side of the plate; very quickly this stops the direct current from passing, because the voltage across the capacitor can only push so many electrons to one side of the plate. In an alternating current, on the other hand, higher frequencies are let through while lower ones are stopped. Again, no electrons pass through from one plate to the other-only electromagnetic energy. The insulator (or dielectric) matters in the way that it responds to electromagnetic fields, but it should always prevent electrons from traveling across. A discharge across the plates of a capacitor would be disastrous!
Thank you Terrance for the important correction! The bit I wanted to convey is that the entirety of the field (that corresponds to the AC signal) has to travel through the insulator, and thereby the insulator has a profound effect on the electric field, of the charge and discharge properties.
Absolutely correct. Capacitors only charge up and then discharge again, depending on the electric circuit. In DC power supplies an electrolytic capacitor will hold the charge until a load is attached. In AC circuits the capacitor will charge and discharge at the rate of the signal frequency.
Looks like some of the people replying understand how a cap works. What you have to remember also is farads or micro farads are a time based measurement, and how long it takes it to charge and dis charge is what allows current to flow in the rest of the circuit. So since current never actually passes thru it the only thing that affects freq. is how long, not what it's made of.
How the different dielectrics respond is all compensated for in the rating of the cap, .022 poly, is .022. ceramic. same time to ch, dis ch., same freq. Differences in sound are from variation in value. Since I do a lot of amp tone shaping I measure a lot of caps and they are all over the place. Many times not even within their specified tolerance.
@@bradt.3555indeed. If the rated capacity is the same , the rated esl is the same , if inductance is the same , then there is no difference.
What them audiofools hear is simply real world capaciotrs are not ideal capacitors by any means.
Where small differences go large , are not the crossovers. But anywhere before the amplifier. As any effect of a difference will be amplified by the amplifier.
I like the new format. Good topic and explanation. I can see a few heads catching fire out there on this one. 👍
Very insightful - thank you for the video
Thank you Eduard! ;) Cheers, Janos💥
Great Job RWA !
I agree about caps , I was a Vintage fanatic for a long time mainly Sansui/Marantz
But 1st time i recapped my ole Marantz 2270 from 1974 wow what a change the amp sounded more modern i lost that vintage flavor , One of my bestfriends who is an electrical engeener said it best they don't make caps like they use to caps use to be much bigger in size
not saying ones better than the another just saying they sound different
And this is why you have vintage purest who don't want recapping done even though it can be risky .
actually sold the Marantz after recap and bought another 1 Thats never been touched except for service .
I'm enjoying your videos and wondering if you would consider a "tutorial" video about what to look for inside amps, dacs, etc for capacitors that would yield sonic improvement if changed out.. what type of capacitor to look for as candidates (identifying the different types) and which brands and/or types to consider for replacement.
What brand and type of capacitors do you use for audio signal coupling in your equipment?
Clearer or this now thanks Janos. The construction of a cap is very important then.
Interesting point of view, thanks for sharing! Is there any good teflon capacitor that does not cost an arm and a leg?
I don't know any that's cheap and as good or better than an Obbligatto or Miflex... There are the Russian teflon caps which I can think of, they sound quite an upgrade from a generic cap, but they sound seriously broken and distorted compared even to Obbligattos....
@@realworldaudio wow good to know. Thank you :)
“When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind; it may be the beginning of knowledge, but you have scarcely, in your thoughts advanced to the stage of science.” - Lord Kelvin
"The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.” Albert Einstein
Harvey Rosenberg (NYAL and Futterman OTL) wrote a cool article on assembling your own cable using silver wire in a litz configuration a laquarering each wire and weaving a silk sleeve over each bound group, 1 for + and another bundle for the - and a third bundle, again in silk sleeve for the ground. He even proposed multiple bundles for each task (+/-/ground). It was I think in his second published Quad Owners Club magazine. He was also a big proponent of paper in oil, the kind that are banned for fabricating your crossover
Janos, Thank for another interesting presentation. Will you be covering the usefulness of electrolytics with higher quality bypass capacitors in the future? B&W and others seem to have used this successfully. They describe it in a white paper. Thanks again!
Good suggestion thank you! ✨👍
So Janos, is it better to change a crossover capacitor completely or will a higher quality bypass capacitor negate the effect of the cheap one?
I can recommend bypassing a good capacitor with an excellent one, that will be almost always a significant improvement. However, bypassing a bad capacitor with a small value good often creates a very bad situation, with parts of the frequency range behaving radically differently. (You have fast and clear high frequencies due to the bypass cap, but sluggish, muddled, distorted and noisy lows and mids due to the poor main capacitor).
@@realworldaudio So better to replace altogether👍 Thanks for the response Janos
I once had a friend to lend me his nord ost valhalla LS cables in the 2K range, when new. I heard a pleasant improvement in certain frquences. But is it worth it? My pal sold 'm for 600.
Electrons? Capacitors cannot pass anything, that's the point of them. There is a field interaction in between the two sides.
What You last said, makes me wonder. Capacitors like all other circuit parts were chosen in measurements for a reason. So if You recommend just a larger capacitor the whole circuit will work differently, will have a different output.
Ouch, I hoped I was clear in the video, apparently not. Exact same value capacitors of different brands / construction transmit energy preferentially at different frequency bands. I hope this description is better than the one I tried to convey in the video. Thank you for your comment asking for clarification!
I admit that the more expensive capacitors the better sound quality
Capacitors will change sound ,, wire tho ,,just a cable? unless there hidding a resistor or cap they cant change much at all
13:45 "everything must go thru that insulator: ..electrons jump thru the plates" Are you saying that electrons flow thru the dielectric (insulator) in a capacitor ????
If that is the case does it not mean that the cap is defective???
The charge passes through the insulator separating the two plates - otherwise it would not be a capacitor, just a connector with tow open ends. ;
DC does not flow through a capacitor. We can have some leakage. But you must look at the circuit around the capacitor.
We get a displacement of electrons as it flows from one plate through circuit to other plate.and back and so on .
Nedlab capacitors are neutral sounding.
🤔U still miss out Testing Solen Silver Cap. just where is your Test Reports then🤔
Have not had a chance to try it out yet.
Nothing goes through a cap unless it's a short, once charged it's a DC battery waiting to be discharged . They only conduct AC which oscillates polarity when closed circuit . If you put DC in with capacitors current only flows until it's full then it's open circuit eg AC in caps can filter out AC ripple to DC = zero frequency . Charge and discharge nothing goes through the plates , it's oscillating voltage and current . Meter set on DC Caps are open circuit ,why?
You have described what capacitors do very well. They show open circuit because the plates are not connected, separated by insulator. Hence, DC cannot flow as you have described. Meter shows open circuit, because it is open, there's a layer of insulation between the capacitor plates.
@@realworldaudio Your a wonderful person .
A common controversial subject in general is, Coloration is bad. Colorations are just changes in frequency, EQ. Everything in audio is colored... cables are no diffrent. I make cables that are so colored per say. But they are so amazing in coloration, hehe. Ok... my question why are so called colorations a BAD thing? Am I missing something. Are certain folks misusing the term? Im an alternative type of EEE, and I strongly disagree with most recording engineers.... Cables are NOT snake oil. I invented an alternative technology that clearly demonstrates this. hehehe
Thank you Al!!! Video follow up will come out shortly. I went on an epic rant. ; )
@@realworldaudio can you pls give me your opinion on EQ and coloration with cables. What i hear are not so much any if this, but less distortion, darker background, more dynamics and higher levels of transparency. I mean without true fancy cables a system just doesnt sound its best!!! Im lucky i must say that im a fancy cable designer, my cables cost only less than $10 to modify etc.... But they run circles around the 20k cables... patent pending technology...
I like your videos, however, who are you talking to? Please look into the camera, if you are talking to all of us.
I am looking at the dead center of the phone, which is my camera. Sorry for the inconvenience.
This is not a scientifically based explanation. It basically says that different capacitors sound different because they are different. The subjective descriptions, if true, are all explainable in terms of physical parameters and objective measures. For example, the supposed power spectrum alterations must all have their basis in changes in capacitance, resistance, reactance, etc. None of that is discussed and no objective, reliable, and valid data are offered. Subjective reports after changing interconnects are not data.
Valid comment, very good observation.
What I provide here is information for users. What to choose for a specific purpose. This is also data. It is entirely useless for electrical engineers who want to build critically tuned mega/gigahertz circuits, yet an important guide for human beings who want to specifically voice their stereo systems. Thanks for commenting!
Incoherent fruit salad
Most of what I see/ read about audio consists of rants, endless ramblings by smarty pants without a clue. Never a straight answers one big mess.