It's really all completely relative. In all of my years (decades now) of extremely careful listening and countless "A/B comparisons", I have noticed a "trend" of the following things: 1. If a capacitor is in the direct audio signal path, (whether it be in an amplifier OR in a speaker crossover), it being in a direct signal path makes a MORE significant difference in sound quality than a capacitor that is ONLY in the power supply of a component, however, as Paul mentioned, the power supply caps can definitely affect the sound to a noticably significant degree also, just not QUITE as much as the ones that are in a direct audio signal path. (And I'm just talking here about the differences between different TYPES of capacitors, (as in electrolytic, polypropylene, mylar, etc.), with all other parameters such as their uF value, etc being good and equal or the same between the different types.) 2. There is a significantly noticeable difference and improvement between the sound quality from using a cheap, "basic" quality electrolytic capacitor, (especially if it is old and "worn out" or "leaky" or just plain bad), and a "Mylar" (or polyester) type capacitor. 3. There is a slight to significant improvement in sound quality when you go from a Mylar/polyester type to a good quality polypropylene capacitor. 4. There is a VERY significant improvement in sound quality if you go directly from a cheap electrolytic to a good quality polypropylene right away. (Probably the "BEST" option overall)(provided the necessary uF value is attainable and practical (physical size-wise) with a polypropylene vs. the electrolytic, with polypropylene capacitors being significantly larger in size for the same uF value) 5. There is a very slight improvement in sound quality between a GOOD quality ("entry level") polypropylene capacitor and a VERY expensive, "boutique" brand polypropylene capacitor. (A case of progressively diminishing returns on investment here)(This is VERY subjective, relative, and "debatable")(depends on who you talk with about it) Therefore, I personally think that you usually get the "most" VALUE FOR THE MONEY, out of just simply upgrading any capacitors that are actually in the direct signal path from cheap "stock quality" electrolytics up to at least a GOOD, ("entry level") polypropylene capacitor, getting as high of quality one as you can afford, (*see note below/at bottom*), and then also, if you can also afford to get a VERY High Quality "film/foil" type of (very small uF value) "bypass" capacitor on both the power supply main filter electrolytic capacitors, (which are impractical to replace with polypropylene ones in their entirety due to their extremely large uF values), AND also put some of the same VERY high quality film/foil type (very small uF value again) "bypass" capacitors across the good quality polypropylene ones you just upgraded to in the direct signal path, then THAT method is probably the MOST cost effective way to upgrade amps and especially speaker crossovers to a VERY significant degree, WITHOUT it costing an absolute "fortune"!... (Because extremely expensive "boutique" grade polypropylene capacitors can cost up to hundreds of even thousands of dollars EACH, whereas the more "entry level" (but still GOOD) quality polypropylene capacitors are closer to about $1/uF, so that's what I would suggest to someone who wants a significant improvement in sound quality of a vintage speaker or amp, but doesn't want to (or simply cannot) spend literally thousands of dollars in upgrade costs... This is all basically just my personal opinions though, based on my own years of personal experience in upgrading and improving speakers and amplifiers on a more "meager" or "normal person's" budget, so do with this information whatever you will... Feel free to spend as MUCH as you want on new extremely high-end polypropylene capacitors like Duelund, or Jupiter caps or something similar, but you're not going to notice quite as much significant sound quality improvement between those extremely expensive polypropylene capacitors and just simply a really good quality "entry level" polypropylene capacitor, as you most DEFINITELY get between the cheap "stock" electrolytic capacitors in most vintage gear and speakers and the "entry level" good quality polypropylene capacitors, so take that into consideration when spending your hard earned money, especially on older vintage gear which usually ALSO needs OTHER upgrades too, not ONLY just recapping! (*Note mentioned above*) There is a VERY useful article about (audio grade) capacitors and direct relative sound quality comparisons between almost ALL of them available, and that article is easily found if you look it up in Google... humblehomemadehifi.com "capacitor test" That guy is a "major nerd" audiophile when it comes to capacitor comparisons, so his article, ("book" actually!), is a REALLY great read if you want to upgrade the caps in pretty much ANY audio gear or speakers! He is ALSO continually updating his list with new capacitors that he continually tests and compares to all of the others in his VERY extensive list, on a regular basis, so that article is definitely one of the absolute BEST references for audio capacitors that I've EVER seen anywhere, online or otherwise! Hopefully this information will help out at least one person out there who is looking to upgrade an older amp or speakers. Good luck and happy listening!...
I would caution everyone that having proper poly film caps is a great idea, but most "audiophile" capacitors fall into one of two categories - standard poly film caps in a much larger enclosure and a 10-100x markup, or, far worse. absolute junk paper or paper-in-oil capacitors that are microphonic, off-value, and with unknown ratings. The majority of the "audiophile" capacitors like wonder caps are in the second category, they are terrible, and everything they claim for then is absolutely wrong. A special case are the USSR army surplus paper-in-oil caps, throw any of those you find in a wood chipper with great prejudice. Most of the latter category have dramatic effects on the sound, it is far, far worse, they are highly microphonic. Standard industrial poly film caps are what you want, from names you would recognized. I also note that a lot of the "audiophile" advice is to not bother concerning yourself with the actual capacitance of the specifc caps. they need to be a particular value.
ATTENTION PAUL: Your fan wants to know about capacitor upgrades in speaker crossovers. I really appreciate your input here and I’d love it if you would make another video about crossover capacitors. IME an ultra low esr/high frequency filtering cap in the power supply can make an even bigger difference in/of themselves than upgrading the “audio stream” coupling caps. Replacing a lytic in the audio stream with a film cap is always a worthwhile upgrade, if you can find a good film cap in the value you need that will fit. 😂 Upgrading an inferior audio stream film cap(like metalized polyester) with something like a Polypropylene film/foil cap is a VERY worthy upgrade ime!
Polyprops yes, but in cases where you havent got the space vs large value uF, you might consider Nichicon Gold VG series, just make sure passive Xovers utilise bypolar versions. They are supposed to work really well in power supplies. Audio caps have great low ESR across the frequency band
Great video. Thank you, Paul! And thanks for the explanation of the bypass caps. You already mentioned it in some of your videos. Totally interesting point!! Best regards.
Even his answer is so subjective lol, maybe he just heard the music louder and obviously, louder is better, you hear more bass and more highs. We should avoid trusting someone without listening by ourselves ✌️
I owned that Phase Linear amplifier and their 4000 preamp. That was one combination that fed my Dalquist DQ-10’s. Wish I would’ve known about that bypass Cap circuit change at the time. The Sound of this amp was pretty good for the day until I switched over to an Audio Research SP-3a 1 and a D 76 A amplifier to drive the same speakers. it was then that I understood what a true musical experience was about.
Mr Scratch I just purchased a set of Dahlquist DQ10's and I am making them a project as I am retired. The woofers are shot and I can repair them myself ( I think ) but I am worried about messing with the crossovers. I am going to repair and upgrade everything I can , mesh, internal wiring, gold binding posts, re-foam drivers, but the crossovers make me nervous as I don't want to bugger the sound. I am told that high quality caps will make a difference simply because after 40 years the originals are completely dried out and degrade the audio signal. Any advice you can give me is appreciated before I get started with the tear-down which I hope to film and post on RUclips. Thanks
Most Phase Linear equipment I saw when I was doing refurbish/upgrades had blown up to varying degrees and they were always a few MFD of degradation of going unstable. Slightly better than the usual "audio boutique" explodo-amps (like Bedini), but less good than your average kit-built original Dynaco ST-120.
Thank you, Mr. McGowan, for this and other videos! I adore the way you answer - politely, professionally and with deep knowledge of every case. Please don't stop! All the best to you and PS Audio! 🤝
For the person who sent the email, I found a slightly richer and more organic signature with the Clarity CMR than with a standard OE electrolytic..albeit a pricey cap....many other boutique caps can be tried. I will say this, if your internal wire for your speaker is 20+ years old, I would look into replacing that as well. The fresh wire will really let everything flow as intended since it's the last signal path before the speaker driver. Replacing the internal wire on my vintage Polks was a night and day difference...good luck!
Changing to metalized poly’s on those old Polks makes a big difference, and replacing those old ferrofluid tweeters is also huge. In my old Polks, the tweeters got ratty past 25 years.
@@Wizardofgosz No Richard, 30 year wire while not the age was the issue, but the type of wire used. "Fresh" high purity copper is a night and day difference, you would need to be tone deaf not to hear it. The point is replacing old tech with new tech. Internal wire gets overlooked, and allows the upstream changes to be more evident if you already have poor quality wire.
@@Wizardofgosz Now if I was to buy a pair of Sonus Fabers today and in 30 years went with a factory fresh crossover, I doubt I would hear any difference with an internal rewire because the wire they use is already very good.
@@stever7638 🤣There is nothing wrong with the “quality” of copper wire from 30 years ago! 🤯 A largely insufficient gauge for the current that needs to flow through it is a different story. If you noticed a huge difference with just wire replacement, maybe you had bad solder joint(s) if you didn’t increase gauge and/or decrease the length considerably. If you think “modern” copper is somehow “better” than it used to be, then you’re nuts..👨🏻
@@shipsahoy1793 Hey mate.....I will approach your comment differently than I have in the past....so bear with me. When I was a kid in elementary school, my audio hobby was making high quality cassette recordings and I experimented many ways to get the sound right. When I went overseas in the mid 80's and was in jr high school, my passion for audio really started when I heard the Yamaha Centennial series through I believe were some big Infinity Kappas. The centennial set was absurdly expensive but that was my start. I've been in this hobby for a little over 40 years, I've heard quite a bit of the same thing, as well as improvements, both small and large. If you are here commenting, then you are very likely someone who is passionate for audio, or frankly...a troll, might be some middle ground but you get my point. If you want to discuss "what I hear" then let's discuss. If you fall into the category of... "If a tree falls in the woods, and nobody is around, does it make a sound?" Then please move on. As far as cables go, let's not go back 30 years, let's talk about the present. Are you going to tell me that some lampshade wire from a home store will sound the same as some Audioquest Dragon Zero? What about interconnects, amplifiers with different wire, or preamps with different wire. Are you going to tell these manufacturers that they are nuts and don't hear any difference? That it's all "smoke and mirrors"? Are you going to tell me that my 30yo tinned copper wire of the same gauge as some modern, well-known "perfect surface copper" or a high quality "Litz" wire will sound the same? Or better yet, that with you not being there, that you know what I heard. I'll be the first to say I don't hear a bit of difference, but when I hear a huge improvement that when my wife hears it for the first time she asks.."did you buy another piece of equipment" ..it was that noticeable. Small sidestep, what's comical is when I hear EE's speak of a Rhode and Schwartz scope or PSU, they are all giggly with how well it measures or how accurate it is because of the big PSU, high quality wire, high quality caps and resistors. Except when we audiophiles use boutique caps, resistors, better wire that it makes no difference and we just believe it does....that's honestly funny and sad...but hey, let them have their fun. So yes, when I swapped my old tinned copper wire for some very high quality wire of the same gauge, the difference was very noticeable, and I'm well-versed enough to know that it was an improvement.
Dear Paul, First I loved the content in this video. Second, I noticed the original question was about replacing caps in his speakers. I think you may have jumped to your experience in the Phase Linear 400 story. I mean you no disrespect. I very much enjoy your videos. Many Thanks, James
PSU caps definitely matter, though I'm in the camp of as long as your working with reputable name brands (Nippon, Sanyo, Panasonic, Nichicon) youve got nothing to really worry about in regards to needing to "upgrade" them.
@@ClassifiedBrief Absolutely correct, guilty as charged. Thing is... talking the kinda caps I think your talking, that can get pretty expensive pretty quick and for most folks not very feasible. On a scale of 1-10, where would you place the difference in response/dynamics when dropping $100+ per cap?
100% this. I'm no expert, diy and fix stuff.. But having experimented for years, the specs of caps are the main contributor to sound character. And its mostly due to that ESR tangent at a given frequency. The old fashioned and boutique caps with oil etc. have a different curve... perhaps not as linear or technically good as standard stuff, but flavoured. This applies to both power rail decoupling and signal coupling caps.
He asked about the caps in his speakers and you went to caps in amps, a different subject. Regarding caps in speakers, commonly used are non-polar electrolytics, and these are basically two polarized electrolytics back to back. They suffer from being quite non-linear and thus introduce audible distortion. They also tend to have high internal inductance and result in attenuation of the higher audio frequencies. Replacing these with high quality oil caps invariably results in much cleaner definition in the high end and lower distortion in the upper midrange.
I keep seeing this in his videos. It's like he doesn't want to let go of any info. Is he afraid of someone copying his business so he starves the next generation of knowledge they could build on to improve even more?
No, he didn't. He actually gives a perfect example of how you can recap a x-over and save some money. Use a bi polar electrolytic to get the bulk of capacitance needed, then bypass it with a .1 film cap. Electrolytics perform well at LF and films perform great at HF.
I rebuilt my speaker crossovers with high end parts, ClarityCap, 16 awg air core inductors, Mills resistors, PE pure copper wire… then installed some 0.1uf Miflex KPCU bypass caps and immediately noticed the difference. I did one speaker first so I could listen and compare.
better for sure, cleaned up the edges, added more detail. I wasn’t sure what to expect. I was surprised how obvious the changes were. (drivers and tweeters are Seas Prestige, dual 6.5” woofers, ported d’apollitto design)
@Hastings Piper 0.1uf bypass cap is nothing when added to the (6.5uf cap in my case) main cap. The bypass on high frequency circuit was instantly noticeable. But I think I remember hearing a difference on woofer circuit too.
To see the kind of improvement it can make, I modify only one speaker and listen to them side by side using a monophonic recording in a A/B comparison setup. If you can't hear a difference, don't go any further.
Bob Carver started under the Tradewell store in Edmonds, WA - where I lived. Phase Linear was up in Lynnwood. Everyone I knew worked there to get the gear. I was in High School then.
I've used Dayton polypropylene capacitors in my DIY 3-way passive crossovers. I've been very happy with them. Right now I'm 4 days into restoring and adding a TEAC A-3340S reel to reel to my stereo system. Making decisions now on replacement caps for the thing, certainty wanna use quality stuff in the audio chain.
Also big difference if they're being use in a tube-based signal path to decouple high voltage from the low voltage signal or its being used in a speaker crossover filter. Big difference.
I believe the question was about caps in speakers and the answer applied to the amps. IMHO, caps make a difference in the speakers. Particularly if the speaker uses cheap electrolytic, they need to be replaced with any decent film cap. That will be a easily heard improvement. Beter film caps will sound marginally better than cheap film caps. Spend your money on the caps on the tweeter first.
Impedance, self-resonance, ESR, etc, : “When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind; it may be the beginning of knowledge, but you have scarcely, in your thoughts advanced to the stage of science.” --Lord Kelvin
Tie this together with the bypass capacitor discussion from Danny at GR Research and you have a pretty good idea of how they work and affect sound quality/character.
Yes capacitors make a big difference especially in tube designs where not only do the coupling caps filter DC they also have frequency filtering effect so they act a bit like a crossover in circuit but this question is for speakers and the answer is pretty much the same, absolutely they do. However, design is one thing, building the box to match the drivers etc is science but matching crossovers to drivers and HF units requires leg work and listening tests because the designer is voicing the speaker to make it sound the way they envisaged so choice of capacitors not only for their electronic values is crucial, as is the caps type of construction and materials used. So if you are upgrading a speaker, you should really measure its performance find out where its weaknesses are and address them where possible by fitting better caps or even slightly changed values to correct bumps and dips in response etc. If your Diatones are old you could just use quality spec film caps like Mundorf, Audyn, Clarity etc using the same values and you should hear improvements cheap inductors and equally cheap sandcast resistors can also hamper sound quality. Lots you could do but bear in mind you cannot turn a sows ear into a slik purse, in other words no good taking a cheapo speaker built down to price and spend a small fortune on crossover components expecting it to sound high end, it won't. Speaker design and voicing is really complex and difficult as you are always dealing in compromises and trying to get your speaker out of the way of the music, few achieve that. Not heard Diatone but if they sound good to you and nothing is wrong with them, leave them alone unless you just want to experiment. Better to just upgrade by auditioning better ones in you system at home as the next step up. Also consider simple room treatment and speaker placement, it may surprise you, Good luck.
Mitsubishi diatone is a Japanese high end speaker manufacturer. Founded in 1945 and was closed down in 99, the diatone ds251 mkIl release in 1973 and that speaker is 49 years old , i guess the caps of that speaker is dried out and really need of some service.
@@wu17 Yes I do know the brand I remember a drummer in our band a good friend of mines father had a pair of DS3000, I think they were four way (not something you see much these days). I may have heard them but couldn't tell you how they sounded. I think he was a bit of a Japanese hifi fan as he had a very big Trio Amp and a really nice turntable as I remember but I don't recall the make. You could take the crossover out and visually inspect the caps for leakage, bulging etc. If they look healthy leave them as you'd need to take them out of circuit to properly test them. Remember, a capacitors role in a crossover is purely to allow high frequencies to pass, so if you are getting a nice top end upper mids it's unlikely that you have a problem. Changing caps will often change the sound even if you use exact same values, so rebuilding a crossover needs great care and listening skills as measurements will often not correspond to expectations and you may not end up with the speaker you wanted or expected. Flat frequency responses and ruler compliant curves often lead to horrible sounding gear, voicing expertise is invaluable. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
Mr. McGowan, When you mentioned the story about "bypassing" the electrolytic capacitors, did you mean ADDING the "bypass" cap in parallel with the electrolytic, or did you mean replacing the electrolytic (such as disconnecting one end, or putting a switch on one end, with the "bypass" cap. Big difference. Either adding capacitance in parallel or totally replacing the electrolytic. Maybe you mentioned it and I missed it. Thank You from Minnesota.
I did the filter cap bypass back in the mid 80s on a Hafler amp, on a system that was "good", but not super high resolution. It was audible...for the better IMHO. I later did the same thing with a more prestigious New York Audio Labs Moscode 300. It was also audible, but made less of an impact as the same mod to the Hafler. Obviously there are variables galore, but caps matter on a good system. The better the system gets, the easier small differences are to hear. It's really easy to glom onto the theory that what I heard was placebo effect, and apply that to every little nuance that's tough to measure and prove, and can't be heard easily on all systems....that's a horrible rut to fall into, because it completely dismisses any chance of it being true, and deprives you of keeping an open mind, thus also deprives you of adding that benefit to your system. Many small changes by themselves are difficult to hear, but several can certainly sum up to a very audible improvement. Placebo effect may very well exist in some cases, but certainly can work two ways and prevent someone from accepting a small change for the better. Somehow PE also never seems to explain the dozens (hundreds) of subtle changes I've made that I did not like, but that I truly wanted to be better. Some people have no problem taking what they hear at face value.
there is a big difference in sound quality on a proper tweeter ,i changed a poly cap to mundorf supreme silver caps ,my jaw just droped ,the caps cost half the tweeter price which sounds weird but its worth it ,no comparison.....
I’ve heard of .1uf bypass capacitors in speaker crossovers but I’ve never heard of them in amplifiers…and further the question was about speaker crossovers not amplifiers. Senior moment?
Parts quality definitely matters. There are people who only think the speaker makes any difference. They're usually people with very low-resolution systems. One guy was so adamant that he knew audio, and that I was an idiot, I looked him up, and found out he was coming up on his one-year anniversary at his first job at Best Buy. He lived in his mom's basement and owned the smallest tower speaker that Def Tech makes. Nothing wrong with living in mom's basement I guess, or owning small Def Techs, but if that's your spectrum of experience, then you probably shouldn't go around preaching chapter and verse to audiophiles with multi-decades of experience, and their life's savings invested.
5:04 Never seen that before. Really need to try this. My approach is to use big schottky diodes (10A) then slap a 47nf cap over it. main caps are 4700uf because of it's lower esr value compared to 10k uf caps. Really curios about that cap over the big electrolytic.
Capacitors do make a difference, so no qualm here. But apart from that, everybody knows that in the audiophile world, everything that is excessively expensive or a great inconvenience and preferable as far fetched as possible makes a great positive difference in sound. Also, the difference is always significant but can never be measured or quantified with a parameter.
Before I turned my speakers into active speakers, for years I slowly experimenbted with the caps, and yes, even in the same name brand, the different levels of caps DID make a big difference in staging, the precision of the singer's location, timbre, distortion, color, quickness -- all of it was a lot of fun experimentation for me. Now, to control it all actively before the signal gets to the amps . . . the sound, precision, etc. is extraordinarily a huge difference . . . even over the rest of the caps. People, who have heard my system before and thought it was excellent, were, I believe, blown over by the change to active speaker improvements! I only speak for myself, when I say that this experimentation and tinkering has been so much enjoyment in contributing and hearing the improvements! This may be what a lot of your employees at PS Audio enjoy about their job, is being paid to experiment and make work also profitable as well, while they are making "tinkering" improvements in your products . . . a dream job! Paul, you seem that you are a fairly easy-going fellow, but in your pursuit of a career, I doubt if you could have made any better career choice as you have made in doing what you seem to enjoy the best -- tinkering with the electronics and coming up with newer and better products along the way! I often wonder if I would have pursued such a career; if I could have been involved in building and f instead of just wishing I were able to purchase and experience your products as a consumer . . . . BUT, we each choose our own paths with their own pluses and minuses . . . and the satisfaction of any position depends on our ethics and willingness to make it a good or bad experience. I had my career choice, which had its own brand of satisfactory demands and goof-ups like any other career choices . . . so we each need to choose wisely -- do it, and be satisfied at the end of the day as "Job Well-Done!"
Depending on the application some of the best bang-for-buck are Mundorf Supreme Silver/Oil as well as Teflon caps. You can get Teflons made by both the high end cap manufacturers as well as new-old-supply Russian Soviet era caps usually used by the military. The best of the Russian caps are the FT3 and K72, although the quality control is not always consistent and they aren't always available in the value you need.
Jantzen Supreme! On the Soviet teflons, the FT3 is very good, needs a lot of hours for break-in when applied in an amplifier. Have extensive experience with them and they can be a very good value in the right application.
I like your videos and you shared some interesting information, but you really missed this one. The guy was asking if it makes sense to change the caps in his LOUDSPEAKERs. And yes it does, especially if they contain bipolar electrolytics. How good is good enough? - i don´t know, but I use the new Mundorf EVO caps. They are reasonably priced, and sound good.
Build quality of capacitors and plate material is vital to the sound of the capacitor. I have experience making audio circuits for rail track control components, rail track circuits are in the audio range. Basically the bandwidths are 1kH to 2kH, 2kH to 3kH, 3kH blah blah... up to 10kH so its like a 10 way amp system. I set up the circuits by selecting capacitor values to suit. As I build amplifiers for hifi as a hobby, and have access to specialised test equipment and a shed load of caps and inductors, I tested caps of metal film type audio grade the MK yellow ones, to see how they react. I found they vary in frequency response, and not even audio grade I mean the hf dropping off around 10kH and down 25 dB at 20kH and worse. Cheap value caps are awful. I gave purchased silver foil caps from the Danish folk and they are superb. The frequency range is right off the meter and flat, that is what makes a capacitor have great sound. Yes you heard it here first. Yes the bypass caps in Paul's amps will add hf clarity for sure. Bypass caps have long been a part of crossover design in the HF part of speakers, bypassing the attenuator.
Capacitors are not perfect and need to be chosen considering the ESR (equivalent series resistance) and ESL (equivalent series inductance). A power supply with large electrolytic capacitors having large series impedance of ESR and ESL will decouple transient high frequency load better if a small capacitor takes care of those load conditions. It means the power rail voltage can be maintained more constant. But the question was about cross-over caps. Of course they can matter but if the design has already assumed a certain ESR and ESL, you might not get better sound if you choose something drastically better with same capacitance.
Your comment about not changing individual components in crossovers rings very true to me. I guess the crossover is designed as an integrated unit. Interestingly, the designer of the new Mission 770 speakers in England said on a RUclips video that they had tried over 50 crossovers before they were satisfied with the sound.
@Hastings Piper There is no such thing as any audio matter defies science. Everything follows laws of physics in audio in every single case. Unfortunately, in audiophile discussions, pseudo science is often what you find on certain matters. If a cable factually sounds better than another cable, obviously it is explainable using real science but when a company wants to sell a cable they produced for US$10 at a price of US$1000, snake oil pseudo science becomes the tool to justify why you should pay for it and when you spent US$1000 on such cable, your brain will want to convince itself it sounds better, so companies get away with it.
@Hastings Piper Show me an example of audiophiles not understanding science like you claim, and I'll show that you're the one who doesn't understand science.
@Hastings Piper Cables are super easy to test with a null test where you compare input against output. You can even listen to the differential and in any normal case you won't hear anything cause the cable is flat to 20kHz and doesn't yield distortion.
Enjoy your videos Paul. Thanks for taking the time to make them. Capacitors? I've had a great experience with crossover caps. Usually poly non polarized etc. etc. I tried replacing some with a bank of ''' STACKED FILM CAPACITORS '''. The foil in these caps. are like a stack of pancakes and are normally used for very high frequency signals. VOILA ! Seriously. Big difference. Very open. Fast. Take 1 uf 0.5 uf 0.25 uf parallel them all up to 4.5 uf. WOW! It cost about $ 250 to do the tweeters and midrange in my Theater. but. I'll never go back. Any thoughts ?
Hey Paul, your office chairs you use should have some nice armrest pads .Hard armrest pads are tough on arms and veins, could cause blood clots?? in gentrified folk!
Hi, I'm Paul. This question is about power supply amplifier capacitors.I have both a Phase Linear 700B and D500. Do you recomend connecting qulity small .1-.2uf caps across the + - of each power supply cap in parallel ?
Dear Paul McGowan! Can I use a standard EPCOS B41691 - A7108-Q (Sikorel) 1000 uF 40V polar ! ! ! capacitor by the woofer crossover like a subsonic filter? It is a Canton Karat 920 DC speaker and the Canton DC technology is very interresting I think. Thank You! Gabor from Hungary!
The real answer is "it depends"....On the cap type, On the dielectric material, On the circuit design, On the AC max-voltage applied, On the max-DC voltage applied, On the load resistance etc...
Hey Paul. I had a reputable experienced hifi repair guy replace some leaking capacitors in the power supply of my audiolab 8200cdq preamp/dac/cd player. They were Lelon low esr electrolytic caps. Im in Cape Town South Africa and we found some local caps that the repair guy said would be identical. Sadly this was not the case. The sound stage is now compressed, the stereo imaging is completely off and unstable, as if the vocalist is moving around. The vocals and other instruments project differently during the same piece of music. This is the only change in the system. Have you experienced this before? I don't think the replacement caps we used are Low Esr. Could it be that or do you think something went wrong during the repair process?
Hmmmm. Sounds to me like perhaps he didn't get the right values or they are in backward or something rather larger than ESR differences. Low ESR caps vs. higher ESR caps absolutely make a difference but I am don't think that big and in that way. I would be suspicious.
@@PaulmcgowanpsaudioThanks Paul. I will start by checking the actual values and comparing them to the original ones. By backwards do u mean the polarity is not correct? If that was the case would it not cause failure and the unit to not power up?
@@charlasia3309 Unfortunately, you can run a polarized electrolytic backwards and it'll still "work" until it heats up too much (depending on the voltage) and then pops its top.
According to my wallet, the fr20's are also expensive. Not everybody has 2-3 thousand dollars to spend on speakers. I enjoy watching your videos, but the products you talk about are out of the average audio enthusiasts price range.
With single driver speakers I found that electrolytic caps sound better than the good ones. Film caps sound too glassy and more brittle on FR drivers (my opinion). Electrolytics are more silky with FR drivers. But electrolytics are too soft sounding on dome tweeters where the film caps sound better, more klangy. Soft domes aren't klangy enough with electrolytics, too wissy (my oplnion).
Paul McGowan of PS Audio, you did not answer the question. You told us why value of capacitors make a difference, but not expensive vs inexpensive capacitors. Tolerance might be a variable, but the question remains.
I have a Hafler 220, I like it a lot / because it’s a do it your self kind of a kit amp, a blast from the past- how could I by pass the two 10000 uF caps that are there in the power supply ? To improve sound like suggested ?
Get 2 high voltage (around 250v AC rating) polyester caps... 100-220nf is a common value, as they are more affordable. Up to 4.7uf is good. Get decent but affordable industrial models like Wima MKS or Kemet Evox. Turn off amp and unplug. Wait 15mins. Solder each one across the terminals of each power supply filter capacitors. The big ones. P.S. Wish I had a Hafler!
@@peterlarkin762 I really like it recently found it for $50 and that came with new parts, so far I have replaced the filtering caps and added nice new shiny inputs for R/L channels
@@peterlarkin762 these amps are literally from like 1979 / I don't think they make them anymore, but you can buy them used, look at your local market, flebay would cost too much probably...
@@peterlarkin762 So, for the non electrical engineer- we run them in parallel? I’m asking because I have bi amped studio monitors that have electronic crossovers, they sound great but I want to improve them.
😅Still Solen Siliver Cap are the best. Very Watery Liquidity😊 Don't choose the Black Solen one. It Sound Rough bec it Alum inside vs the Silver Solen Cap is Silver Film inside. its sound Pure & Liquidity😊
Hey Paul, love the content... how much does the cone material (example:paper to carbon/composite) affect the sound of a pair of speakers. I know the tweeter design (example:aluminum vs silk dome) makes a massive difference in tonality, but does the cone material have a similar drastic affect to the tone of a driver?
As an engineer in electronics, I can unequivocally say yes there is a big difference. There are many different qualities of different capacitors and inductors and resistors that change with different frequencies, thus affecting sound. The capacitance and inductance and resistance are measurement indicators of the main characteristics of the component, imagine miles per hour or horsepower for a car. However, the comfort, fit and finish and other important aspects of the interior of a car are not measured with performance attributes, and these relate to sound quality. Not sure why Paul struggles with this answer and mentions that engineers would not believe that different materials and different quality components would sound different. Cheers!
It si reasonable to believe that the materials and construction of a capacitor can affect the sound of a component, but HOW MUCH and in What Way it affects the sound is Highly Questionable.
The sub-title of this video should read "How to turn a 30 second subject into an 8 minute video ignoring the elephant in the room using BS". "Pricey capacitors" have zero effect on sound. What does have sonic effect is capacitor value, material and the like. As long as one is using the correct capacitor your good. Good or decent capacitors do not have to cost a fortune. Granted, capacitor prices do vary according to value and material. I've heard of capacitors costing as much as $130, but that is for a very specialized type not used in audio usually. Some are bit more expensive than others, but there is no such thing as a $1000 capacitor or what the assumed price is here. If your paying $1000 for a good capacitor you are either in government or you need to find a different source because you are being ripped off. If one is restoring or fixing a vintage piece one should use a decent capacitor, it does not have to cost a kidney. Using decent parts will often buy at least 15 more years of life to a vintage amp or what have you. I had my Sansui 8080DB (circa 1973) re-capped back in 2010 for around $260 and 50 years old, it is still going!
Caps in a crossover filter for speakers make difference... How much depends on your amplifier and cables and players.. The better the easier wil you hear the difference... And its a cheap uppgrade... The crazy scientist phil jones know much about the importence in caps... Good luck out there my audiofil brothers 🙏🧙♂️🕺
It's really all completely relative. In all of my years (decades now) of extremely careful listening and countless "A/B comparisons", I have noticed a "trend" of the following things:
1. If a capacitor is in the direct audio signal path, (whether it be in an amplifier OR in a speaker crossover), it being in a direct signal path makes a MORE significant difference in sound quality than a capacitor that is ONLY in the power supply of a component, however, as Paul mentioned, the power supply caps can definitely affect the sound to a noticably significant degree also, just not QUITE as much as the ones that are in a direct audio signal path. (And I'm just talking here about the differences between different TYPES of capacitors, (as in electrolytic, polypropylene, mylar, etc.), with all other parameters such as their uF value, etc being good and equal or the same between the different types.)
2. There is a significantly noticeable difference and improvement between the sound quality from using a cheap, "basic" quality electrolytic capacitor, (especially if it is old and "worn out" or "leaky" or just plain bad), and a "Mylar" (or polyester) type capacitor.
3. There is a slight to significant improvement in sound quality when you go from a Mylar/polyester type to a good quality polypropylene capacitor.
4. There is a VERY significant improvement in sound quality if you go directly from a cheap electrolytic to a good quality polypropylene right away. (Probably the "BEST" option overall)(provided the necessary uF value is attainable and practical (physical size-wise) with a polypropylene vs. the electrolytic, with polypropylene capacitors being significantly larger in size for the same uF value)
5. There is a very slight improvement in sound quality between a GOOD quality ("entry level") polypropylene capacitor and a VERY expensive, "boutique" brand polypropylene capacitor. (A case of progressively diminishing returns on investment here)(This is VERY subjective, relative, and "debatable")(depends on who you talk with about it)
Therefore, I personally think that you usually get the "most" VALUE FOR THE MONEY, out of just simply upgrading any capacitors that are actually in the direct signal path from cheap "stock quality" electrolytics up to at least a GOOD, ("entry level") polypropylene capacitor, getting as high of quality one as you can afford, (*see note below/at bottom*), and then also, if you can also afford to get a VERY High Quality "film/foil" type of (very small uF value) "bypass" capacitor on both the power supply main filter electrolytic capacitors, (which are impractical to replace with polypropylene ones in their entirety due to their extremely large uF values), AND also put some of the same VERY high quality film/foil type (very small uF value again) "bypass" capacitors across the good quality polypropylene ones you just upgraded to in the direct signal path, then THAT method is probably the MOST cost effective way to upgrade amps and especially speaker crossovers to a VERY significant degree, WITHOUT it costing an absolute "fortune"!...
(Because extremely expensive "boutique" grade polypropylene capacitors can cost up to hundreds of even thousands of dollars EACH, whereas the more "entry level" (but still GOOD) quality polypropylene capacitors are closer to about $1/uF, so that's what I would suggest to someone who wants a significant improvement in sound quality of a vintage speaker or amp, but doesn't want to (or simply cannot) spend literally thousands of dollars in upgrade costs...
This is all basically just my personal opinions though, based on my own years of personal experience in upgrading and improving speakers and amplifiers on a more "meager" or "normal person's" budget, so do with this information whatever you will...
Feel free to spend as MUCH as you want on new extremely high-end polypropylene capacitors like Duelund, or Jupiter caps or something similar, but you're not going to notice quite as much significant sound quality improvement between those extremely expensive polypropylene capacitors and just simply a really good quality "entry level" polypropylene capacitor, as you most DEFINITELY get between the cheap "stock" electrolytic capacitors in most vintage gear and speakers and the "entry level" good quality polypropylene capacitors, so take that into consideration when spending your hard earned money, especially on older vintage gear which usually ALSO needs OTHER upgrades too, not ONLY just recapping!
(*Note mentioned above*)
There is a VERY useful article about (audio grade) capacitors and direct relative sound quality comparisons between almost ALL of them available, and that article is easily found if you look it up in Google...
humblehomemadehifi.com
"capacitor test"
That guy is a "major nerd" audiophile when it comes to capacitor comparisons, so his article, ("book" actually!), is a REALLY great read if you want to upgrade the caps in pretty much ANY audio gear or speakers! He is ALSO continually updating his list with new capacitors that he continually tests and compares to all of the others in his VERY extensive list, on a regular basis, so that article is definitely one of the absolute BEST references for audio capacitors that I've EVER seen anywhere, online or otherwise!
Hopefully this information will help out at least one person out there who is looking to upgrade an older amp or speakers. Good luck and happy listening!...
Thanks for this very detailed comment.
I would caution everyone that having proper poly film caps is a great idea, but most "audiophile" capacitors fall into one of two categories - standard poly film caps in a much larger enclosure and a 10-100x markup, or, far worse. absolute junk paper or paper-in-oil capacitors that are microphonic, off-value, and with unknown ratings. The majority of the "audiophile" capacitors like wonder caps are in the second category, they are terrible, and everything they claim for then is absolutely wrong. A special case are the USSR army surplus paper-in-oil caps, throw any of those you find in a wood chipper with great prejudice. Most of the latter category have dramatic effects on the sound, it is far, far worse, they are highly microphonic.
Standard industrial poly film caps are what you want, from names you would recognized.
I also note that a lot of the "audiophile" advice is to not bother concerning yourself with the actual capacitance of the specifc caps. they need to be a particular value.
Interesting but his question was about caps in speaker crossovers.
Can do more volts, but if you increase the capacitance the frequency response will shift
It’s not the first time he goes off tangent.
I thought it was Biden answering today 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
It has the same impact on sound. The same in speakers crossover, the same in amps.
the point one can still apply in the parallel
His question wasn't about an amplifier, it was about capacitors in a speaker crossover.
he didn't really answer the question. Does a pricy capacitor sound any better than an off brand one as long as they have the same value and specs?
@@MrOleayes he did
grandpa forgot the question
ATTENTION PAUL:
Your fan wants to know about capacitor upgrades in speaker crossovers.
I really appreciate your input here and I’d love it if you would make another video about crossover capacitors.
IME an ultra low esr/high frequency filtering cap in the power supply can make an even bigger difference in/of themselves than upgrading the “audio stream” coupling caps.
Replacing a lytic in the audio stream with a film cap is always a worthwhile upgrade, if you can find a good film cap in the value you need that will fit. 😂
Upgrading an inferior audio stream film cap(like metalized polyester) with something like a Polypropylene film/foil cap is a VERY worthy upgrade ime!
Polyprops yes, but in cases where you havent got the space vs large value uF, you might consider Nichicon Gold VG series, just make sure passive Xovers utilise bypolar versions. They are supposed to work really well in power supplies. Audio caps have great low ESR across the frequency band
Great video. Thank you, Paul! And thanks for the explanation of the bypass caps. You already mentioned it in some of your videos. Totally interesting point!! Best regards.
The original question was about speaker crossover caps, not amplifiers.
Even his answer is so subjective lol, maybe he just heard the music louder and obviously, louder is better, you hear more bass and more highs. We should avoid trusting someone without listening by ourselves ✌️
I owned that Phase Linear amplifier and their 4000 preamp. That was one combination that fed my Dalquist DQ-10’s. Wish I would’ve known about that bypass Cap circuit change at the time. The Sound of this amp was pretty good for the day until I switched over to an Audio Research SP-3a 1 and a D 76 A amplifier to drive the same speakers. it was then that I understood what a true musical experience was about.
Mr Scratch I just purchased a set of Dahlquist DQ10's and I am making them a project as I am retired. The woofers are shot and I can repair them myself ( I think ) but I am worried about messing with the crossovers. I am going to repair and upgrade everything I can , mesh, internal wiring, gold binding posts, re-foam drivers, but the crossovers make me nervous as I don't want to bugger the sound. I am told that high quality caps will make a difference simply because after 40 years the originals are completely dried out and degrade the audio signal. Any advice you can give me is appreciated before I get started with the tear-down which I hope to film and post on RUclips. Thanks
Most Phase Linear equipment I saw when I was doing refurbish/upgrades had blown up to varying degrees and they were always a few MFD of degradation of going unstable. Slightly better than the usual "audio boutique" explodo-amps (like Bedini), but less good than your average kit-built original Dynaco ST-120.
Thank you, Mr. McGowan, for this and other videos! I adore the way you answer - politely, professionally and with deep knowledge of every case. Please don't stop! All the best to you and PS Audio! 🤝
making fun of the guy's name isn't really "professional..."
For the person who sent the email, I found a slightly richer and more organic signature with the Clarity CMR than with a standard OE electrolytic..albeit a pricey cap....many other boutique caps can be tried.
I will say this, if your internal wire for your speaker is 20+ years old, I would look into replacing that as well. The fresh wire will really let everything flow as intended since it's the last signal path before the speaker driver. Replacing the internal wire on my vintage Polks was a night and day difference...good luck!
Changing to metalized poly’s on those old Polks makes a big difference, and replacing those old ferrofluid tweeters is also huge. In my old Polks, the tweeters got ratty past 25 years.
@@Wizardofgosz No Richard, 30 year wire while not the age was the issue, but the type of wire used.
"Fresh" high purity copper is a night and day difference, you would need to be tone deaf not to hear it.
The point is replacing old tech with new tech. Internal wire gets overlooked, and allows the upstream changes to be more evident if you already have poor quality wire.
@@Wizardofgosz Now if I was to buy a pair of Sonus Fabers today and in 30 years went with a factory fresh crossover, I doubt I would hear any difference with an internal rewire because the wire they use is already very good.
@@stever7638 🤣There is nothing wrong with the “quality” of copper wire from 30 years ago! 🤯 A largely insufficient gauge for the current that needs to flow through it is a different story. If you noticed a huge difference with just wire replacement, maybe you had bad solder joint(s) if you didn’t increase gauge and/or decrease the length considerably. If you think “modern” copper is somehow “better” than it used to be, then you’re nuts..👨🏻
@@shipsahoy1793 Hey mate.....I will approach your comment differently than I have in the past....so bear with me.
When I was a kid in elementary school, my audio hobby was making high quality cassette recordings and I experimented many ways to get the sound right.
When I went overseas in the mid 80's and was in jr high school, my passion for audio really started when I heard the Yamaha Centennial series through I believe were some big Infinity Kappas. The centennial set was absurdly expensive but that was my start.
I've been in this hobby for a little over 40 years, I've heard quite a bit of the same thing, as well as improvements, both small and large.
If you are here commenting, then you are very likely someone who is passionate for audio, or frankly...a troll, might be some middle ground but you get my point.
If you want to discuss "what I hear" then let's discuss.
If you fall into the category of...
"If a tree falls in the woods, and nobody is around, does it make a sound?" Then please move on.
As far as cables go, let's not go back 30 years, let's talk about the present. Are you going to tell me that some lampshade wire from a home store will sound the same as some Audioquest Dragon Zero? What about interconnects, amplifiers with different wire, or preamps with different wire. Are you going to tell these manufacturers that they are nuts and don't hear any difference? That it's all "smoke and mirrors"?
Are you going to tell me that my 30yo tinned copper wire of the same gauge as some modern, well-known "perfect surface copper" or a high quality "Litz" wire will sound the same? Or better yet, that with you not being there, that you know what I heard.
I'll be the first to say I don't hear a bit of difference, but when I hear a huge improvement that when my wife hears it for the first time she asks.."did you buy another piece of equipment" ..it was that noticeable.
Small sidestep, what's comical is when I hear EE's speak of a Rhode and Schwartz scope or PSU, they are all giggly with how well it measures or how accurate it is because of the big PSU, high quality wire, high quality caps and resistors.
Except when we audiophiles use boutique caps, resistors, better wire that it makes no difference and we just believe it does....that's honestly funny and sad...but hey, let them have their fun.
So yes, when I swapped my old tinned copper wire for some very high quality wire of the same gauge, the difference was very noticeable, and I'm well-versed enough to know that it was an improvement.
Paul, your rambling is Gold spilling over from a fountain of wealth of knowledge. thanks.
Dear Paul, First I loved the content in this video. Second, I noticed the original question was about replacing caps in his speakers. I think you may have jumped to your experience in the Phase Linear 400 story. I mean you no disrespect. I very much enjoy your videos. Many Thanks, James
Not sure changing the caps in the power amplifier will improve the performance of the caps in the speakers. 😉
lol
Bigger farad caps are always costly , its better to parallel smaller once to get similar filtration bcoz these 10 pcs cost less than 2 pcs big caps
PSU caps definitely matter, though I'm in the camp of as long as your working with reputable name brands (Nippon, Sanyo, Panasonic, Nichicon) youve got nothing to really worry about in regards to needing to "upgrade" them.
You haven't heard high end caps then, that's for sure. It would absolutely change your mind. Do an A/B
@@ClassifiedBrief Absolutely correct, guilty as charged. Thing is... talking the kinda caps I think your talking, that can get pretty expensive pretty quick and for most folks not very feasible. On a scale of 1-10, where would you place the difference in response/dynamics when dropping $100+ per cap?
Capacitors in signal circuits are limited by their ESR tan of the loss angle series or shunt inductance and capacitance / frequency linearity
100% this. I'm no expert, diy and fix stuff.. But having experimented for years, the specs of caps are the main contributor to sound character. And its mostly due to that ESR tangent at a given frequency. The old fashioned and boutique caps with oil etc. have a different curve... perhaps not as linear or technically good as standard stuff, but flavoured. This applies to both power rail decoupling and signal coupling caps.
He asked about the caps in his speakers and you went to caps in amps, a different subject. Regarding caps in speakers, commonly used are non-polar electrolytics, and these are basically two polarized electrolytics back to back. They suffer from being quite non-linear and thus introduce audible distortion. They also tend to have high internal inductance and result in attenuation of the higher audio frequencies. Replacing these with high quality oil caps invariably results in much cleaner definition in the high end and lower distortion in the upper midrange.
I keep seeing this in his videos. It's like he doesn't want to let go of any info. Is he afraid of someone copying his business so he starves the next generation of knowledge they could build on to improve even more?
capacitors in series also halves the value in Farad.
@@ianhames2465 Correct. Caps in series or parallel, work the opposite of resistors and such. Parallel doubles the capacitance, series halves it.
No, he didn't. He actually gives a perfect example of how you can recap a x-over and save some money. Use a bi polar electrolytic to get the bulk of capacitance needed, then bypass it with a .1 film cap. Electrolytics perform well at LF and films perform great at HF.
I rebuilt my speaker crossovers with high end parts, ClarityCap, 16 awg air core inductors, Mills resistors, PE pure copper wire… then installed some 0.1uf Miflex KPCU bypass caps and immediately noticed the difference. I did one speaker first so I could listen and compare.
I have used other bypass caps in other speakers from Cornell-Dublier, Dayton.. that worked great too
Vcap odam over the miflex. Crazy good
better for sure, cleaned up the edges, added more detail. I wasn’t sure what to expect. I was surprised how obvious the changes were. (drivers and tweeters are Seas Prestige, dual 6.5” woofers, ported d’apollitto design)
@Hastings Piper 0.1uf bypass cap is nothing when added to the (6.5uf cap in my case) main cap. The bypass on high frequency circuit was instantly noticeable. But I think I remember hearing a difference on woofer circuit too.
@@ClassifiedBrief Not really... all depends where and how .
Pure copper not just copper sprayed foil in Miflex is awesome
My amplifier uses special 'Audio Grade' caps in the power supply which keeps the source impedance as low as possible over the entire audio frequency
To see the kind of improvement it can make, I modify only one speaker and listen to them side by side using a monophonic recording in a A/B comparison setup. If you can't hear a difference, don't go any further.
Bob Carver started under the Tradewell store in Edmonds, WA - where I lived. Phase Linear was up in Lynnwood. Everyone I knew worked there to get the gear. I was in High School then.
Spot on, I heard Nichicon make the best audio caps?
I've used Dayton polypropylene capacitors in my DIY 3-way passive crossovers. I've been very happy with them. Right now I'm 4 days into restoring and adding a TEAC A-3340S reel to reel to my stereo system. Making decisions now on replacement caps for the thing, certainty wanna use quality stuff in the audio chain.
As far as Speaker Crossovers... Bob Crites (RIP) was not a fan of expense esoteric Caps... Bob knew XOs well
Also big difference if they're being use in a tube-based signal path to decouple high voltage from the low voltage signal or its being used in a speaker crossover filter. Big difference.
I believe the question was about caps in speakers and the answer applied to the amps.
IMHO, caps make a difference in the speakers. Particularly if the speaker uses cheap electrolytic, they need to be replaced with any decent film cap. That will be a easily heard improvement.
Beter film caps will sound marginally better than cheap film caps. Spend your money on the caps on the tweeter first.
@Hastings Piper cool
Impedance, self-resonance, ESR, etc, : “When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind; it may be the beginning of knowledge, but you have scarcely, in your thoughts advanced to the stage of science.” --Lord Kelvin
Use really big signal coupling film caps with caution. The size and geometry can be prone to picking up RFI and EMI, depending on location.
Tie this together with the bypass capacitor discussion from Danny at GR Research and you have a pretty good idea of how they work and affect sound quality/character.
Yes capacitors make a big difference especially in tube designs where not only do the coupling caps filter DC they also have frequency filtering effect so they act a bit like a crossover in circuit but this question is for speakers and the answer is pretty much the same, absolutely they do. However, design is one thing, building the box to match the drivers etc is science but matching crossovers to drivers and HF units requires leg work and listening tests because the designer is voicing the speaker to make it sound the way they envisaged so choice of capacitors not only for their electronic values is crucial, as is the caps type of construction and materials used. So if you are upgrading a speaker, you should really measure its performance find out where its weaknesses are and address them where possible by fitting better caps or even slightly changed values to correct bumps and dips in response etc. If your Diatones are old you could just use quality spec film caps like Mundorf, Audyn, Clarity etc using the same values and you should hear improvements cheap inductors and equally cheap sandcast resistors can also hamper sound quality. Lots you could do but bear in mind you cannot turn a sows ear into a slik purse, in other words no good taking a cheapo speaker built down to price and spend a small fortune on crossover components expecting it to sound high end, it won't. Speaker design and voicing is really complex and difficult as you are always dealing in compromises and trying to get your speaker out of the way of the music, few achieve that. Not heard Diatone but if they sound good to you and nothing is wrong with them, leave them alone unless you just want to experiment. Better to just upgrade by auditioning better ones in you system at home as the next step up. Also consider simple room treatment and speaker placement, it may surprise you, Good luck.
Mitsubishi diatone is a Japanese high end speaker manufacturer. Founded in 1945 and was closed down in 99, the diatone ds251 mkIl release in 1973 and that speaker is 49 years old , i guess the caps of that speaker is dried out and really need of some service.
@@wu17 Yes I do know the brand I remember a drummer in our band a good friend of mines father had a pair of DS3000, I think they were four way (not something you see much these days). I may have heard them but couldn't tell you how they sounded. I think he was a bit of a Japanese hifi fan as he had a very big Trio Amp and a really nice turntable as I remember but I don't recall the make. You could take the crossover out and visually inspect the caps for leakage, bulging etc. If they look healthy leave them as you'd need to take them out of circuit to properly test them. Remember, a capacitors role in a crossover is purely to allow high frequencies to pass, so if you are getting a nice top end upper mids it's unlikely that you have a problem. Changing caps will often change the sound even if you use exact same values, so rebuilding a crossover needs great care and listening skills as measurements will often not correspond to expectations and you may not end up with the speaker you wanted or expected. Flat frequency responses and ruler compliant curves often lead to horrible sounding gear, voicing expertise is invaluable. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
The best caps are good enough for a highend speaker. Greetz from Switzerland
Mr. McGowan,
When you mentioned the story about "bypassing" the electrolytic capacitors, did you mean ADDING the "bypass" cap in parallel with the electrolytic, or did you mean replacing the electrolytic (such as disconnecting one end, or putting a switch on one end, with the "bypass" cap. Big difference. Either adding capacitance in parallel or totally replacing the electrolytic. Maybe you mentioned it and I missed it.
Thank You from Minnesota.
I did the filter cap bypass back in the mid 80s on a Hafler amp, on a system that was "good", but not super high resolution. It was audible...for the better IMHO. I later did the same thing with a more prestigious New York Audio Labs Moscode 300. It was also audible, but made less of an impact as the same mod to the Hafler. Obviously there are variables galore, but caps matter on a good system. The better the system gets, the easier small differences are to hear.
It's really easy to glom onto the theory that what I heard was placebo effect, and apply that to every little nuance that's tough to measure and prove, and can't be heard easily on all systems....that's a horrible rut to fall into, because it completely dismisses any chance of it being true, and deprives you of keeping an open mind, thus also deprives you of adding that benefit to your system. Many small changes by themselves are difficult to hear, but several can certainly sum up to a very audible improvement. Placebo effect may very well exist in some cases, but certainly can work two ways and prevent someone from accepting a small change for the better. Somehow PE also never seems to explain the dozens (hundreds) of subtle changes I've made that I did not like, but that I truly wanted to be better. Some people have no problem taking what they hear at face value.
For me the main reason for good caps is they deteriorate much more slowly.
there is a big difference in sound quality on a proper tweeter ,i changed a poly cap to mundorf supreme silver caps ,my jaw just droped ,the caps cost half the tweeter price which sounds weird but its worth it ,no comparison.....
Your.a cool guy Mr.Paul. i like hearing your stories and musings. Thanks
I’ve heard of .1uf bypass capacitors in speaker crossovers but I’ve never heard of them in amplifiers…and further the question was about speaker crossovers not amplifiers. Senior moment?
Parts quality definitely matters. There are people who only think the speaker makes any difference. They're usually people with very low-resolution systems. One guy was so adamant that he knew audio, and that I was an idiot, I looked him up, and found out he was coming up on his one-year anniversary at his first job at Best Buy. He lived in his mom's basement and owned the smallest tower speaker that Def Tech makes. Nothing wrong with living in mom's basement I guess, or owning small Def Techs, but if that's your spectrum of experience, then you probably shouldn't go around preaching chapter and verse to audiophiles with multi-decades of experience, and their life's savings invested.
5:04 Never seen that before. Really need to try this. My approach is to use big schottky diodes (10A) then slap a 47nf cap over it. main caps are 4700uf because of it's lower esr value compared to 10k uf caps.
Really curios about that cap over the big electrolytic.
Capacitors do make a difference, so no qualm here.
But apart from that, everybody knows that in the audiophile world, everything that is excessively expensive or a great inconvenience and preferable as far fetched as possible makes a great positive difference in sound. Also, the difference is always significant but can never be measured or quantified with a parameter.
Well said! It’s mostly snake oil and Paul is one of the worst offenders, in my view. These are really PS promotional videos.
Very true
better caps in the x overs is the easiest upgrade
Before I turned my speakers into active speakers, for years I slowly experimenbted with the caps, and yes, even in the same name brand, the different levels of caps DID make a big difference in staging, the precision of the singer's location, timbre, distortion, color, quickness -- all of it was a lot of fun experimentation for me.
Now, to control it all actively before the signal gets to the amps . . . the sound, precision, etc. is extraordinarily a huge difference . . . even over the rest of the caps.
People, who have heard my system before and thought it was excellent, were, I believe, blown over by the change to active speaker improvements! I only speak for myself, when I say that this experimentation and tinkering has been so much enjoyment in contributing and hearing the improvements! This may be what a lot of your employees at PS Audio enjoy about their job, is being paid to experiment and make work also profitable as well, while they are making "tinkering" improvements in your products . . . a dream job!
Paul, you seem that you are a fairly easy-going fellow, but in your pursuit of a career, I doubt if you could have made any better career choice as you have made in doing what you seem to enjoy the best -- tinkering with the electronics and coming up with newer and better products along the way!
I often wonder if I would have pursued such a career; if I could have been involved in building and f instead of just wishing I were able to purchase and experience your products as a consumer . . . .
BUT, we each choose our own paths with their own pluses and minuses . . . and the satisfaction of any position depends on our ethics and willingness to make it a good or bad experience. I had my career choice, which had its own brand of satisfactory demands and goof-ups like any other career choices . . . so we each need to choose wisely -- do it, and be satisfied at the end of the day as "Job Well-Done!"
But what was the job you chose ?
Hi Paul! I have a question for you: How much did it cost you to have 10 pages in the Absolute Sound magazine?
Phase Linear WOW a name from the past!
great review on speakers? how much did you pay for that great review?
and what kind of discount did the reviewer get on those speakers?
can you define what characteristic makes a good audio capacitor?
Danny at GR-Research seems to know his stuff.
You sure about that ?
Could or should I have the technician fixing my Krell put small caps on the 4 big power supply caps ?
Paul - I think "hero" asked about replacing caps in the cross-over of his Diatone speakers and you talk about amps - or did I get that wrong 0:28 -
🤔Pls cut it out Mundorf Capacitor MPK Alum or SilverGold crossection video have too?
After installing new caps, cheap/ expensive ones, need time to burning in. Sound will improve until settle down.
Depending on the application some of the best bang-for-buck are Mundorf Supreme Silver/Oil as well as Teflon caps. You can get Teflons made by both the high end cap manufacturers as well as new-old-supply Russian Soviet era caps usually used by the military. The best of the Russian caps are the FT3 and K72, although the quality control is not always consistent and they aren't always available in the value you need.
Jantzen Supreme!
On the Soviet teflons, the FT3 is very good, needs a lot of hours for break-in when applied in an amplifier. Have extensive experience with them and they can be a very good value in the right application.
I like your videos and you shared some interesting information, but you really missed this one. The guy was asking if it makes sense to change the caps in his LOUDSPEAKERs.
And yes it does, especially if they contain bipolar electrolytics. How good is good enough? - i don´t know, but I use the new Mundorf EVO caps. They are reasonably priced, and
sound good.
Build quality of capacitors and plate material is vital to the sound of the capacitor. I have experience making audio circuits for rail track control components, rail track circuits are in the audio range. Basically the bandwidths are 1kH to 2kH, 2kH to 3kH, 3kH blah blah... up to 10kH so its like a 10 way amp system. I set up the circuits by selecting capacitor values to suit. As I build amplifiers for hifi as a hobby, and have access to specialised test equipment and a shed load of caps and inductors, I tested caps of metal film type audio grade the MK yellow ones, to see how they react. I found they vary in frequency response, and not even audio grade I mean the hf dropping off around 10kH and down 25 dB at 20kH and worse. Cheap value caps are awful. I gave purchased silver foil caps from the Danish folk and they are superb. The frequency range is right off the meter and flat, that is what makes a capacitor have great sound. Yes you heard it here first. Yes the bypass caps in Paul's amps will add hf clarity for sure. Bypass caps have long been a part of crossover design in the HF part of speakers, bypassing the attenuator.
PL40 was a POS Flame linear I called it. Kept blowing up
Elna Silmic Alpha Super Gold for Sansui?
Capacitors are not perfect and need to be chosen considering the ESR (equivalent series resistance) and ESL (equivalent series inductance). A power supply with large electrolytic capacitors having large series impedance of ESR and ESL will decouple transient high frequency load better if a small capacitor takes care of those load conditions. It means the power rail voltage can be maintained more constant. But the question was about cross-over caps. Of course they can matter but if the design has already assumed a certain ESR and ESL, you might not get better sound if you choose something drastically better with same capacitance.
Your comment about not changing individual components in crossovers rings very true to me. I guess the crossover is designed as an integrated unit. Interestingly, the designer of the new Mission 770 speakers in England said on a RUclips video that they had tried over 50 crossovers before they were satisfied with the sound.
More likely due to other variables in the system.
@Hastings Piper There is no such thing as any audio matter defies science. Everything follows laws of physics in audio in every single case. Unfortunately, in audiophile discussions, pseudo science is often what you find on certain matters. If a cable factually sounds better than another cable, obviously it is explainable using real science but when a company wants to sell a cable they produced for US$10 at a price of US$1000, snake oil pseudo science becomes the tool to justify why you should pay for it and when you spent US$1000 on such cable, your brain will want to convince itself it sounds better, so companies get away with it.
@Hastings Piper Show me an example of audiophiles not understanding science like you claim, and I'll show that you're the one who doesn't understand science.
@Hastings Piper Cables are super easy to test with a null test where you compare input against output. You can even listen to the differential and in any normal case you won't hear anything cause the cable is flat to 20kHz and doesn't yield distortion.
One of the best systems I listened to was tri-amp. Electronic crossover tri-amp system three amplifiers and no cross over networks in the system.
Enjoy your videos Paul. Thanks for taking the time to make them. Capacitors? I've had a great experience with crossover caps. Usually poly non polarized etc. etc. I tried replacing some with a bank of ''' STACKED FILM CAPACITORS '''. The foil in these caps. are like a stack of pancakes and are normally used for very high frequency signals. VOILA ! Seriously. Big difference. Very open. Fast. Take 1 uf 0.5 uf 0.25 uf parallel them all up to 4.5 uf. WOW! It cost about $ 250 to do the tweeters and midrange in my Theater. but. I'll never go back. Any thoughts ?
I do know the more expensive ones give you a feeling of lightness and air.
In your wallet
Hey Paul, your office chairs you use should have some nice armrest pads .Hard armrest pads are tough on arms and veins, could cause blood clots?? in gentrified folk!
Hi, I'm Paul. This question is about power supply amplifier capacitors.I have both a Phase Linear 700B and D500. Do you recomend connecting qulity small .1-.2uf caps across the + - of each power supply cap in parallel ?
Hey Paul, how about answering the question?
Dear Paul McGowan! Can I use a standard EPCOS B41691 - A7108-Q (Sikorel) 1000 uF 40V polar ! ! ! capacitor by the woofer crossover like a subsonic filter? It is a Canton Karat 920 DC speaker and the Canton DC technology is very interresting I think. Thank You! Gabor from Hungary!
Unfortunately some pricey speakers don't have very pricey caps in them (according to GR Research).
The real answer is "it depends"....On the cap type, On the dielectric material, On the circuit design, On the AC max-voltage applied, On the max-DC voltage applied, On the load resistance etc...
How much do you guys spend on ads in Absolute Sound?
The question should be is "How important are good caps (or no caps) in an audio system and what part of the circuit are they most critical in?""
Hey Paul. I had a reputable experienced hifi repair guy replace some leaking capacitors in the power supply of my audiolab 8200cdq preamp/dac/cd player. They were Lelon low esr electrolytic caps. Im in Cape Town South Africa and we found some local caps that the repair guy said would be identical. Sadly this was not the case. The sound stage is now compressed, the stereo imaging is completely off and unstable, as if the vocalist is moving around. The vocals and other instruments project differently during the same piece of music. This is the only change in the system. Have you experienced this before? I don't think the replacement caps we used are Low Esr. Could it be that or do you think something went wrong during the repair process?
Hmmmm. Sounds to me like perhaps he didn't get the right values or they are in backward or something rather larger than ESR differences. Low ESR caps vs. higher ESR caps absolutely make a difference but I am don't think that big and in that way. I would be suspicious.
@@PaulmcgowanpsaudioThanks Paul. I will start by checking the actual values and comparing them to the original ones. By backwards do u mean the polarity is not correct? If that was the case would it not cause failure and the unit to not power up?
@@charlasia3309 Unfortunately, you can run a polarized electrolytic backwards and it'll still "work" until it heats up too much (depending on the voltage) and then pops its top.
@@Paulmcgowanpsaudio thank you Paul. Appreciate the advice
have you tried using polystyrene 1F160v would be better
What brand of capacitors does PS Audio use in your top line Speakers & amps please ... Thanks in advance
The cheapest !
you didn't answer his question speaker crossover caps.
🤗👍 also IMHHO…GREAT ADVICE…for an older amp and LET HIS EARS 👂 DECIDE 🤔😁💚💚💚
Thank you Paul
Will a Pico Farad speed up a poly cap in a crossover
According to my wallet, the fr20's are also expensive. Not everybody has 2-3 thousand dollars to spend on speakers. I enjoy watching your videos, but the products you talk about are out of the average audio enthusiasts price range.
Diatone was a part of Mitsubishi Corporation.
With single driver speakers I found that electrolytic caps sound better than the good ones. Film caps sound too glassy and more brittle on FR drivers (my opinion). Electrolytics are more silky with FR drivers. But electrolytics are too soft sounding on dome tweeters where the film caps sound better, more klangy. Soft domes aren't klangy enough with electrolytics, too wissy (my oplnion).
Paul McGowan of PS Audio, you did not answer the question. You told us why value of capacitors make a difference, but not expensive vs inexpensive capacitors. Tolerance might be a variable, but the question remains.
Realmente es una manera muy elegante de vender sus productos. Alimentando sutilmente el aceite de serpiente.
I have a Hafler 220, I like it a lot / because it’s a do it your self kind of a kit amp, a blast from the past- how could I by pass the two 10000 uF caps that are there in the power supply ? To improve sound like suggested ?
Get 2 high voltage (around 250v AC rating) polyester caps... 100-220nf is a common value, as they are more affordable. Up to 4.7uf is good. Get decent but affordable industrial models like Wima MKS or Kemet Evox. Turn off amp and unplug. Wait 15mins. Solder each one across the terminals of each power supply filter capacitors. The big ones.
P.S. Wish I had a Hafler!
Is the kit is available to purchase somewhere?
@@peterlarkin762 I really like it recently found it for $50 and that came with new parts, so far I have replaced the filtering caps and added nice new shiny inputs for R/L channels
@@peterlarkin762 these amps are literally from like 1979 / I don't think they make them anymore, but you can buy them used, look at your local market, flebay would cost too much probably...
@@peterlarkin762 So, for the non electrical engineer- we run them in parallel?
I’m asking because I have bi amped studio monitors that have electronic crossovers, they sound great but I want to improve them.
😅Still Solen Siliver Cap are the best. Very Watery Liquidity😊 Don't choose the Black Solen one. It Sound Rough bec it Alum inside vs the Silver Solen Cap is Silver Film inside. its sound Pure & Liquidity😊
Explained very well
Amazing information. Great video
Hey Paul, love the content... how much does the cone material (example:paper to carbon/composite) affect the sound of a pair of speakers. I know the tweeter design (example:aluminum vs silk dome) makes a massive difference in tonality, but does the cone material have a similar drastic affect to the tone of a driver?
Yes it does. I prefer the sound of paper cones.
Im going to try this!!!
As an engineer in electronics, I can unequivocally say yes there is a big difference. There are many different qualities of different capacitors and inductors and resistors that change with different frequencies, thus affecting sound. The capacitance and inductance and resistance are measurement indicators of the main characteristics of the component, imagine miles per hour or horsepower for a car. However, the comfort, fit and finish and other important aspects of the interior of a car are not measured with performance attributes, and these relate to sound quality. Not sure why Paul struggles with this answer and mentions that engineers would not believe that different materials and different quality components would sound different. Cheers!
Thanks!
🤗 CONGRATULATIONS 🎉 🎉PAUL,🍾🥂🍷🍷
It si reasonable to believe that the materials and construction of a capacitor can affect the sound of a component,
but HOW MUCH and in What Way it affects the sound is Highly Questionable.
Caps change the frequency response that you hear. If you think it sounds better it's not because the brand of capacitor.
Uploaded 5 months ago.
Doesn't read the comments.
That's all I need to know.
The sub-title of this video should read "How to turn a 30 second subject into an 8 minute video ignoring the elephant in the room using BS".
"Pricey capacitors" have zero effect on sound. What does have sonic effect is capacitor value, material and the like. As long as one is using the correct capacitor your good. Good or decent capacitors do not have to cost a fortune. Granted, capacitor prices do vary according to value and material. I've heard of capacitors costing as much as $130, but that is for a very specialized type not used in audio usually. Some are bit more expensive than others, but there is no such thing as a $1000 capacitor or what the assumed price is here. If your paying $1000 for a good capacitor you are either in government or you need to find a different source because you are being ripped off.
If one is restoring or fixing a vintage piece one should use a decent capacitor, it does not have to cost a kidney. Using decent parts will often buy at least 15 more years of life to a vintage amp or what have you. I had my Sansui 8080DB (circa 1973) re-capped back in 2010 for around $260 and 50 years old, it is still going!
Once again, the question asked goes unanswered...
Hiro asked about caps in loudspeakers and this guy talks about amps.
Dont forget the plug for his Speakers then he left speakers behind
It does not rally matter, where ever they are in the signal path it makes a difference.
@@hugobloemers4425 🤣🤣🤣
We should be grateful it was not another incoherent ramble on DSD.
@@geoff37s38 I stopped watching videos with DSD in the title.
Caps in a crossover filter for speakers make difference... How much depends on your amplifier and cables and players.. The better the easier wil you hear the difference... And its a cheap uppgrade... The crazy scientist phil jones know much about the importence in caps... Good luck out there my audiofil brothers 🙏🧙♂️🕺
Ask about speaker cross over. Paul talks about amps for 5min. 😑
Did you pay them for the review ?
? Not sure why you would ask that unless tongue in cheek. You can't buy reviews.
Audio Note only use silver caps in their best equipment...
Congratulations on the magazine cover :)
Probably cost them a few dollars, but that's how it works.
Sometimes film capacitors last forever like in the B&W Dm2a/4.
The people who manufacture very expensive capacitors say that they produce better results.