I am 71 yrs old and wish I was young again, with good hearing and time to tinker with my 7 year old Diamond 10.4, Cayin EL-34 tube amp and Marantz cd-6004 which are in my spacious bedroom. I have mild hearing loss in both ears, lower midrange in the left and higher midrange on the right. Yet, I am happy with the smooth, seemingly clear sounds as I think my brain helps to balance what I'm hearing. I enjoy your program and appreciate all you do. My speakers can go down to 38hz and can feel them specially in Saint Saens Organ concerto.
If someone says parts don't matter, they haven't built a guitar amp or crossover or anything. Some things don't sound as drastic but everything has its own personality going on pretty much to different degrees
Danny, love your videos. I bought my first stereo in 1970 when I was in the USAF. Everyone in the barracks was buying stereos despite the fact that we were only getting paid about $200 per month. Some of the guys who had been stationed in Vietnam came back with very high end stereos, cameras and other equipment. It was kind of crazy but that's what bored 19-22 year old single guys spent their money on. My first speakers were AR-5s which cost $175 each. My first receiver was the Heathkit AR-15 which I think cost about $300. I used them until 1995 when the woofer cone cracked. Since then I have purchased many other speakers without really understanding the specifications. In the last few weeks I have learned more from your you-tube videos than l learned during all those years. If I could make a suggestion; it would help me follow the discussion if you could use an electronic pointer when discussing the performance graphs. I would also help if you define what the axes represent on each of graphs. Thanks, keep up the great work.
Sure but this is just a guy saying some stuff is better than other stuff without any actual evidence. This video would have been so much better if he'd just measure the same crossover output with a cheap / small coild and again with an expensive coil. Right now it's just "You know, some stuff is better then others, better buy THIS stuff because, well, I say so".
@@IUsedToBeAPygmy I ordered from GR and have it in my mid-fi gear and it sounds great. Don’t knock it ‘till you try it. And maybe you will see what he talking about 🙂
@@IUsedToBeAPygmy He already did that in another video. They measure the same but sound different. Which means the type of measurement that's usually done doesn't measure the type of difference that is heard. Two cars with 300bhp might not do a 1/4 mile in the same amount of time. Are you going to say that because they "measure" the same, they are going to perform the same?
Air wound inductors. If you want layman's terms , it's just thick copper wire wound into a coil ( you could wrap it around your finger). Simple as. It's just a feedback effect. The magnetic field from one coil interacting with the coil next to it and " chocking" high frequencies. There's nothing layman in any of this it's just Physics at its root.
100% Danny. I just recently upgraded the crossover parts, binding posts, internal wiring (from you, thanks, Danny) in a pair of Forte i’s I got from my neighbor. I also put dynamat on the backs of the speakers. I did 1 speaker at a time to see the difference between them, and it was easily audible. So, yes…parts absolutely matter.
Ive git a pair of frotes im looking to upgrade, starting out by using the JEM kit which js the authorised electrolytic cap kit. From there im going to upgrade to film and maybe other components like resostors and inductors. Do you have a kost kf what upgrades you did?
Very good material. This is all true and I often tell our company's clients. Crossover parts have a great influence on the sound of a stereo system . Best Regards Wilk-Audio-Projekt
While I absolutely respect speaker builders and the incredible efforts from the audiophile community to achieve better quality, I do feel there is a huge market in “audio grade” components, cables etc and a lot of incentive to sell to the community. So while it’s interesting to hear opinions from experts, I am yet to be convinced that components that measure the same would have any difference to our ears.
@@dannyrichie9743 I'll take you up on that. Will you perform a blind test on camera here to show your ability to discern difference in crossover capacitors? It will be a simple test, you only need to listen and write down your answers, I'll do the rest. The results will be shown in the same video. I think it would be prudent to do an analysis of networks with measurements first to show any electrical differences, then the blind test to see if there is a difference in signal then how audible is it. What say you? Would you do this test on camera?
@@glengatt3941 I wish it were true that none of this made any difference. It would make my job infinitely easier, and far more predictable. Unfortunately for pretenders to the throne, EVERYTHING done in an audio component makes a difference to varying degrees. The difference between a true master of the art, and the hobbyist is the true understanding and experience that comes from spending DECADES of your life perfecting the craft of creating the fine instruments we refer to broadly as “ High End” audio.
To receive decades of information from some one free of cost is amazing.Being in electronics for ever I can remember when there was no were to find answers was trail and error this is priceless.Can you do video on 12 volt system like JL to speakers subs and there amps.
I experimented with my crossovers for years and not only learned a lot, but increased the quality of sound; however, when I converted my speakers to an active crossover... it was then I started hearing what I wanted.
I would like to see a comparison. I would like to see how a crossover with cheap components compares to a expensive crossover with the same values just better quality components. I would like to see how it affects the sound. Keep the videos coming. I never miss them
David Frazier best way to find out is to do it yourself (been down that path plenty of times) used duelland caps for my power supply for the clock in a cd player transport
Buy a used set of speakers, pull it open, replace the components for the midlevel stuff shown here for 50 bucks or so and go to town listning to stuff. It will give you all the snsweres you are searching for.
There are more values to a cap and inductor than just the Farad and Henry values like esr, esl for Capacitor esr, epc, epr for inductor. You have to look at the data sheets to see what is best for your application/tune around it. It is very interesting to listen to a person explain that without numbers.
I haven't built anything as of yet, but I'm learning a lot from your videos on this subject.. It's very interesting to learn of the quality or bad quality of components inside of a speaker. Most people don't know what they're paying for. Same for computers could be said. Thank you for your knowledge.....
I never understood why audiophiles still design boards on a 2 dimensional plane when space is not really an issue. My 3d circuits capture the crispness in the highs plus low frequency depth and complexity with an absolutely flirtatious mid-range sweetness while cancelling out the bad vibes and irresponsible harmonic overtones that have led to the downfall of art in the 21st century. For the internal wiring I use hope. Really, a true miracle.
This was interesting. I would however like some AB sound tests and/or oscilloscope read-outs to actually show this difference. It would help to visualize impact using different types of parts
Low sales = higher msrp - so more profit margins on less units sold - They’re looking to score big on the high end I don’t blame them if a few people are willing to spend -that’s the American way -free enterprise man
@@jamesrobinson9176 not out touch just giving a reason for the crazy prices on hi end as there’s still great value on mid fi products --I know the business -musical instrument manufactures are going this route -China made less expensive and US ,euro -MIJ ( very high labor rates not just parts $ as Danny always brings up but labor rates )will be very expensive and more exclusive as less and less people are purchasing new hi end goods Stereo manufactures most of which are basically small Businesses in scale may be out of touch to a certain degree as unlike a phone or tv computer a stereo is not a real world item anymore, but they have to sell product and make moolah to obviously stay in biz
Sir! I've listened to audiophile experts for years and I know when someone knows what they are talking about. I have no tolerance for snake oil and You Are the Best at cutting through the Snake Oil! I MUST Subscribe to your RUclips channel. SHALOM!
@Albert Jennings I agree he is one of the best "Snake Oil Salesmen" out there. Love his techno mumbo jumbo like "smear". 🤣 I would love for him to tell me how to measure it and at what levels are considered good, bad, acceptable "smear".
1:18 Without waching the whole video i can absolute agree with this statement. There is a big difference between cheap and 'good' parts. But there's also a border when 'high-end' parts become expensive without hearable results. Speaker cables are such a money pit.
Thank you for this video! I am now inspired to rebuild my 1990 M&K S-1b satellites with Solen caps. May end up doing bypass caps as well but not a first. Dayton audio resistors you showed. Solid core wire you sell. CMC short binding posts. A second crossover board so the coils can be separated and arranged for less interference. I’m sure more could be done but this is pretty extensive for my knowledge level. Hopefully will have some nice performance changes when all done. Thank you Danny for your videos and knowledge sharing.
Excellent discussion. I used to sell those Usher Be-718's BTW. Then someone from Usher told a customer by my store, to go into my store and listen to them, then call him and he'd give them a better price than we could. So that was the day I stopped selling Usher. Manufacturers turning on their retailers is running rampant right now, especially in the days of Covid. They're using us for the showroom experience, then they're selling direct to the customer. Many are even withholding inventory to their dealers but showing it in-stock online on their websites, so they get the sale, and we don't. It's sad. Anyway, I want to design a speaker with top-notch parts like you've got here because I know it makes a difference. Also, I've got JBL K2 S9900's now in my personal reference system. You've got me wondering what parts they used in the crossover. Hmm.
I'm going up to that next level right now. Migraine just kicked in, and thus I now have partial loss of vision. It started just after the beginning of watching this video. Fortunately that is as far as it goes these days at 66 years old. Back when it first hit me long long ago, it caused a nasty headache, paralysis of my right arm, loss of speech, and numbness on the right side of my upper lip. Scared the heck out of me. Anyhow, after fixing all the 22 Faders in my 45 year old Soundcraftsmen PE2217 Preamp - Equalizer, I am trying to find out how I can use equipment to set things as best as possible while using my home made 1978 huge speakers. Well, that is as far as I can get, I can just barely read my text at this moment. Thank goodness for auto spell check.
Hi there Danny. Many thanks. I'm just getting back into building a system, for the first time in many years. Before I begin, I'm repairing the old stuff I have. Just to see what's going on. A/B test. Now there is a DAC, streaming audio, and power supply EMI/RF, isolation. Plus 1 value in some column if there is an imaginary tracking system for that 'stuff.' Anyway, I have ototoxic hearing loss. Building a system anyway, starting with repairing the old things I have. I cannot predict what I can be able to hear. Technics 'new class A' and the first speakers to use are Magnat 144 series. Thanks again. Ohm L2s crossover boards are being redone, you have helped me a bit. As much as anyone, Kent Larson has a 2 minute video demonstrating inductors and capacitors in a signal.
The quality of parts in speakers matters just as much as the quality of parts in anything else you buy...it comes down to reliability, durability and consistency in performance...I work on knives for a living and I see these things play out on a daily basis...if it was all the same, the upgrades market would have failed pretty quickly if people weren't seeing and hearing the difference of the money they spent
I changed tone caps in my guitar amp, and it made a huge difference. Same value components, but different materials. It was substantial enough to convince me not to waste time arguing with deniers. There's no reasoning with them. They will only stare at numbers on a bench, and rigged test that support their claim. They also have unlimited free time for debate, rather than conducting actual experiments. Deniers never get involved in anything that would prove their theory wrong. If they do they blame the results on environmental variables. If that fails they will say that the results weren't substantial enough to justify the expense. Same set of arguments every time. The like to place the burden of proof on someone else. Rather than explaining real world results, they go to the math first. It's bizarre. Ignore them.
good explanation of how the parts work, but don't forget to mention that capacitors only pass AC and block DC (as do transformers) which is an important aspect of how valve amplifiers work. (great explanations of that by fellow Texan resident Uncle Doug on his RUclips channel)
Thanks for such an informative video! I bet I learned FAR more useful information about crossovers by watching your video than I have learned reading 3 months worth of reading. Again, thank you!
It'd be very cool to see a few crossover designs, using varying price points of components.. then review and abx test and see what is thought to be best. Really nice info here, thanks for taking the time to share.
I would like to subject this guy to a blind sound test of these different parts. I imagine it would be like the time I was debating the wisdom of buying expensive components such as his brand new 20 channel equalizer... I finally said that I thought he couldn't even tell if the EQ was even on (he had just spent hours fine tuning every channel) and while he scoffed and laughed at me I flipped off the EQ, turned up the volume slightly, and held my hand over the on/off EQ light and asked him "is it on or off" ... he listened intently... then cracked a big smile and said with 100% confidence "It's on!" I removed my hand showing him the EQ was in fact off. How about the right woofer and piezo = no crossovers at all!
Yes parts matter. I am particularly intrigued by the comment made about high purity copper wire vs silver coated Teflon due to its pores state. I use Teflon coated silver clad wire to listen to my speakers. Phase shift in theory is an issue and in some cases (for example bad insulation resistance i.e. too low impedance) But Teflon has excellent resistance and is a very good insulator, but as you said needs the silver cladding to prevent spot welding between multi-strand wires. Inakustik make good wires too. Would it be better to use pure silver to negate this issue? I also like your Polyethylene reference for insulation because this shows your transparency regarding what wire to use and insulation. I really appreciate your video. Thanks.
Have you done a video on cabinet physics, especially concerning cabinets that are designed to bring out the best audio on set of speakers? Are there speakers are more limited by cabinet design than parts? Really enjoy the channel.
This is really cool, and it sounds like a lot of this could be demonstrated with some measuring tools like an oscilloscope or multi meter. Would be interesting to see the difference.
To even see 1% THD on a sine wave is really tough to see on an oscilloscope. Distortion is a change in shape of the frequency. Here is a little secret about the universe, the Fourier theorem. Any signal, no matter how complex the shape is nothing more than the sum of multiple sine waves of different frequencies. Most distortion analyzers can measure something a million times smaller than the original signal (-120db) while some better equipment can go to 10 million times small (-140db). For example .01% second harmonic distortion is present, what does that mean. Well if we are measuring 1kHz sine wave, then that means that at the output there is not only 1kHz but also now 2kHz but -60db below the 1kHz input signal. If you know your maths that's a difference of 1000. So that means at the output we can have 1000v at 1khz and 1v of 2kHz added together. Do you really think if something 1000 times smaller is going to be audible? Most likely not but -60d isn't really a great number in regard to fidelity, your typical DAC is reaching -120db easily now which is a million times smaller. We have the ability to measure very small differences in signal shape. Beyond measuring the difference in shape of a signal then we can also measure the difference in amplitude (peak potential), difference in phase (time difference between input/output). If the signal itself hasn't changed, which we can easily measure then there can be zero audible change. So when this fool is saying okay we measure no change but there is still an audible change, it's BS. When he makes a statement of "we don't know how to measure the correct things" that only means he has no idea what he is measuring and he also has no clue about electronics in a serious educational sense; e.g. he is a hack to the highest degree and take what he says with a grain of salt or else you will empty your wallet for nothing while making his wallet fatter. To give him credit, I don't know how or what he measured, if he is just looking at an oscilloscope screen it's not going to tell you very much because it's not accurate enough to notice even a 1% distortion, it still looks like a nice clean sine wave. He needs at the very least a distortion analyzer good down to at least -100db to be even meaningful. At -100db most things are considered not audible because it's such a small difference being 100,000 times smaller. If he used a distortion analyzer and did a few other tests he could definitively say if there is an audible difference or not. Instead he just hand waves like a prophet from god and states what he says as gospel when it's truly garbage.
Some measuring tools LOL. What you gonna see, some numbers on a display and /or a bouncing line on a screen. Good luck interpreting even an enormous difference on those. If you are able to interpret anything at all.
I really appreciate your channel, just can't shake the feeling that your speaker upgrades must also involve upgrading parts and wiring in amps and other devices in the signal path meaning that it is in fact a never ending road with our passionate hobby 😁
It seems that simply filming in the listening room has had a great effect on the audio and visuals, as the room is treated and the backdrop is not busy ;) Always love your content! I’d watch if you filmed in the back of a dump truck in a swamp with a wild onion hanging out your teeth.
First class information. I often choose speakers based on the quality of the components in the crossover. But it is often not worth making changes in the crossover due to the poor quality of the speakers.
Looks like you are starting to ruffle some feathers Danny, asked a famous reviewer to show us the crossover & after a bit of waffle, I think the answer was NO!, In fact , I think he would like you to provide audio samples of before & after, to prove that upgrading parts actually improves the sound of a speaker. It would seem taking the top off an amplifier to have a look is fine but not speakers!, You wouldn't buy a car without having a look under the bonnet... I am going to keep asking the question, I hope others do as well, if the crossover is built to the same standard as the rest of a speaker, then why not show it, regardless of budget, keep up the good work👍
Excellent video explaining the importance of parts quality. For the naysayers, like anything out there yes there is the law of diminishing returns but like anything else if you want the best then you have to pay; to simply say that why do we need copper foil capacitors in speakers when some cheap metalized film ones will do its the same as saying why do you need titanium screws in a race cars when steel ones will do....its the fraction of seconds that you are persuing, same in audio its the tiny differences that at the top level make the big differences...
I did SVS ultra towers and center speaker upgrade from GR research and blow mine mind if you have some many to spare and imagination how to put it together You are a Winner 👍
Danny, Bro! This is an outstanding video. However, I’m listening through my 2-channel with a sub. There is so much rumbling coming through because the microphone is being abused, lol. I work in TV sometimes and build studios and the computers that run them. I also run the audio board and video switcher. You really have to set up a full range live monitor or full range headphone to know what is going out over the air. It can be confusing if you don’t do it right. It can sound like every single thing is being recorded if you have the headphones or monitors setup incorrectly. In your case, you might be having the opposite problem. You might not be hearing all the low frequency noise and so you’re blissfully unaware. Have a listen through hi-fi and you’ll see what I mean. I have the aux output on the spare TV running to the McIntosh MA252 hybrid amp into my HSU Research sub ( the amp has a sub preout built in) and vintage infinity Modulus 90 satellites, as they were called. By the way, they have the same drivers used in the IRS BETA giant sub/sat system. PS Audio just copied the drivers for their new $30K speakers. But I bet you could make them sound better! With the original 12” sub (also borrowed from the IRS BETA), they got a recommendation from Stereophile BITD. Thanks for all the great videos.
Instead of handwaiving explanations, this was tested at ASR. Bottom line was that any poly cap is as good as any other poly cap, and “improvements” beyond that have no measurable effect. So just use low cost poly caps and air core chokes and don’t listen to “this cap sounds different to that” because it simply isn’t true.
They are just taking measurements and theorizing a result over there. They do no real science. Nothing they say over there can even be taken seriously.
Thank you for splaining about the finer points of parts quality . Every video I watch makes me feel more confident that I will be able to build my own speakers . After leaving this comment I’m going to your website to look for a project. Thanks again 👍👍
Interesting video. Only thing I struggle to wrap my head around is at what point is it better to get a better speaker with better drivers. Like yeah for a lot of people sending in their speakers they already own making them sound as good as possible within reason makes sense but in the situation where you're looking to buy speakers that you eventually plan to upgrade at what point does having the better driver make more of a difference. Like lets say you have a $500 budget, spending $100 on speaker and $400 on upgrades I would imagine would be worse than a $300 speaker with $200 of upgrades or $400 with $100 on upgrades assuming all speakers are reasonably well designed within their price target. Second questions is what makes more of a difference between parts and where they are assuming your upgrade isn't changing the design. Like lets say you have a $200 upgrade budget is it better to stack upgrades on one part like high end parts on tweeter and midrange parts on the woofer or upper midrange on both, etc. Also is there any difference in longevity these days with parts? For example I know older crossover parts can go out of spec or dry up so is it possible that might be the reason some parts are used over others?
I suppose it's going to come down to the speaker you are upgrading . Some may have great drivers and bad parts. Some may have bad drivers and parts . The crossover parts seem to be more expensive. Look at the xls encore the woofer is 30 and the tweeter is 50 . Not expensive but great drivers. You could spend hundreds even more on a crossover. The better drivers will insure there are less parts in the design which will result in a cheaper crossover in the long run.
@@toecutterjenkins Very true. Definitely a lot of variables especially considering a lot of the speakers that come through aren't designed as well as they could (rp600m comes to mind). I guess I'm just thinking when as many variables are proportionally even as possible, where are the high value parts. I guess thinking of it from a diy sense is better but if I put all my money into one side of the puzzle be it drivers or crossover parts where an I getting a better return on my money.
@@TylerStout I have encores and for the price I don't think you can go wrong as a starting point. Especially if you have the skill to build the boxes yourself. I used 4 pieces of 1x12x48" mdf shelving from HD the cost less than 4 bucks each.
I can say this as a truck driver and part time mechanic, parts do matter. I can get inexpensive sensors, or other mechanical bits, and rarely do they work, or last longer than what the OEM produces. I cannot see it being any different in the manufacture of audio speakers and gear. Just as in automotive parts, I can walk into a plant making say interior pieces or carpet. They have lines for say GM, Ford, Chrysler, Toyota and Honda. The first three carmakers are of lesser quality than the last two. It is no different in audio or electrical bits. And as Danny stated, for only a few pennies more the quality can be had.
@Michael Wright I can whole heartedly agree that quality and price do matter. But for some reason in the audiophile community there seems to be a large contingent of "Snake Oil Salesmen", who will happily take large sums of your money for something that does absolutely nothing for the end sound. If you look at a price/quality ratio graph you will see it's logarithmic, meaning in the beginning of the curve there are good quality improvements for not much of a price increase. However the curve soon starts to rapidly rise and the price skyrockets for little if any improvement in quality. This is where the "Snake Oil Salesmen" like to live by selling you $10,000/ft speaker wire and telling you that if you can't hear the difference between that and $1/foot speaker wire there is something wrong with you because they can hear it. Then they tell you there are no measuring instruments that can verify that but if your a true audiophile you could definitely tell the difference.
You could take things a lot further. Buy a box of the best you can, then measure each part and match up so you can have the same or as close possible in the left and right. My price starts at $ 1000 plus parts. 😊
Speaker material, coil material and magnet are crucial. If you look at pro level speakers, you get spl’s of 119, 125 or even 135 spl. Crossovers are important for splitting frequencies but a higher spl speaker will require less power and usually have better clarity at lower power. Even better,if the system can have a linear power curve through the EQ section, then clarity is greatly increased over the power range
Just as a healthy heart depends on our habits and keeps us alive and kicking. The heart of a fantastic pair of speakers is all about the crossover matching well with what is manufactured. I don't put cheap poly caps in the crossovers I build. But then I love to hear speakers that reveal the fullness of the studios intentions.
Hello Danny I agree with you, I am crazy in DIY stuff what you have mentioned in the video you are 100% correct but some ignorant people do not agree and said snake oil. All my tube amp, CD and speakers I upgraded all capacitor the change was so great. By the way what brand of foil inductor you have been use Mundorf or Jantzen???
Love the Description and Explanation of each components function in the Crossover. I've used Capacitors in parallel (As you have) in a speaker crossover. However, I'm still ironically confused as to what exactly what application you would use a Bypass Capacitor in the crossover. Is it more beneficial for the Tweeters? That's one thing I haven't seen in any vintage speakers I've worked on.
Thank you for this clear explanation of the crossover components that is geared toward the layperson or non electrical engineer crowd. Now I feel like I have at least a very basic understanding of how all of these components combine to influence the output of the speaker.
I started designing building speakers and I been using 14 gauge Jantzen inductors and Jantzen capsitors the blue oxygen free copper wire and silver solder and solder point to point and I noticed a huge difference my speakers are better quality than most higher end speakers I even saw high end speakers using steel connectors . I get in arguments about if it makes a difference on websites and I don't care I would rather use better quality than take a chance . So what if I spend $30 for one capsitor it's my design I would spend more if could
Thanks for the explanation on by-pass Caps! Was on the fence with them until I tried it out; it's a very good bang for buck 'by-pass' to outright upgrading larger electro caps (~100uf) to film caps due to costs and size.
@@nathanvanstralendorff2405 I found it tightened up the bass when it was added to the LF section of a 3-way circuit. Ideally it's completely upgraded from electro to film when possible.
@@nathanvanstralendorff2405 hope it goes well! I used the Cornell Dublier 940c 0.01uf for bypass duties. I believe Vishay also has a notable cap for this purpose too.
@@QuinYip I've had Vishay in the past and some Russian PIO Glass envelop which were really nice, sweet and musical. Do/did you like the Cornell bypass caps?
Hi Danny. Let's say I'm running 25' lengths of speaker wire... should I use 10g multi strand or single solid strand oxy-free copper in poly wire? Thanks. Awesome vid and info!!!
If speaker manufacturers can improve the sound of their products by just adding a few more dollars in xover parts, could it be they deliverately do this to justify the price increase in their more expensive models?
According to Danny even the expensive models have poor quality parts. It is far more likely that it just doesn't make a worthwhile difference very often. Danny's opinions on this and emphasis he puts on crossover parts are at odds with the science and general consensus within the loudspeaker design community.
@@myleso-k2068 It is more a question of distortion versus power level. No matter if it is the cabinet construction, the drivers or the crossover, audible distortion will obviously increase with the power level. So, crossover quality is only on parameter to check. If the cabinet resonate at certain frequencies and power level, the sound will suffer accordingly. The same applies to drivers, poor design and construction will impede the possibility to perform at higher power. We have to remember most of the mesurements are taken at only 1 watt of power, hence we can't see the distortion creeping in at that level. This is one of the reasons some speakers sound changes dramatically when you crank up the volume. Every company have their recipe to squeeze the most bang for their buck of investment. Crossover parts are one of the strategies they use to save a few dollars and since most people do not open their speakers to look inside, they have no idea if they have good value for the asked price. Also, companies invest more in publicity and marketing strategies than research and devlopement (R&D). Having myself modified over 100 pairs in the last 35 years, the before and after changes are audible more if you push the volume. This is a consensus in the scientific community.
@@myleso-k2068 What Danny says, in so many ways, in many of his videos, makes complete sense. Every part of a speaker build has an effect on the output. The cabinet, the drivers themselves, the crossovers, everything. Absolutely everything. When his goal is to have a consistent signal that's as flat as can be, his goal is to accurately reproduce audio signal that was mastered by the artist in a production room. During production, when the audio is mastered, the artist and others dictate the strength of say The clash of a symbol or the guitar or the drum beat because that's how they want it blended. When that signal is played and sent out to a speaker, the moment a speaker design does not accurately represent a flat signal, you lose what the artist may or may not even have intended for you to hear. Even then, once you get a speaker to produce as flat as possible, your next challenge is the room that you're listening to it in. Crossover tuning to attempt to improve speaker design flaws and cabinetry flaws and sound room treatment so that way the audio can be heard as the original Mastered audio signal is sent to the speakers. Plus, if you're selling thousands and thousands of units, $100 or more in improved components makes a huge difference to the bottom end and sometimes that "savings" looks impressive on paper more so than adding more cost to some of these speakers that are already ridiculous in price. In the end, even the best produced and most accurate speaker with all of the best components can still not sound impressive in a room that sucks. So that's likely where the difference comes in to where people don't think that these components make the difference. I bet if you change the crossover components and listen to the speakers in an anechoic chamber you will hear every difference he speaks of.
@@myleso-k2068 As someone who built and designed his own speakers, as well as sold hifi for over a decade, expensive crossover components are a poor waste of resources. A $50 cap connected to a $50 Tweeter is insane, when a $5 cap connected to a $95 Tweeter will always sound better, all other things being equal. Let Danny compare two capacitors of the same value (Within 2%), one a cheap poly, and the other an expensive film cap, and connect them to a tweeter and measure the frequency response, impulse response, distortion levels, and decay, and show us the differences. If a copper film cap can make such an audible difference, it absolutely will show up in one of those measurements.
Dal Migliori! WOW - now I totally get it. Wish I had this lecture when I started out in electronics because JC theory SUUUCKEDDDDDDD~!!!! ~@@~ This is like the advantage that Wozniak had starting out - basically same idea - optimizing circuits through available components (in his case mostly A/D hybrid logic circuits.) Which came from his father's eng. work in HP testers and calculators.
I am 71 yrs old and wish I was young again, with good hearing and time to tinker with my 7 year old Diamond 10.4, Cayin EL-34 tube amp and Marantz cd-6004 which are in my spacious bedroom. I have mild hearing loss in both ears, lower midrange in the left and higher midrange on the right. Yet, I am happy with the smooth, seemingly clear sounds as I think my brain helps to balance what I'm hearing. I enjoy your program and appreciate all you do. My speakers can go down to 38hz and can feel them specially in Saint Saens Organ concerto.
i never doubt my crossovers more than the day i started watching this channel... Darn now i know it can be much better !!
If someone says parts don't matter, they haven't built a guitar amp or crossover or anything. Some things don't sound as drastic but everything has its own personality going on pretty much to different degrees
I don't normally leave comments, but this is one great video man.. All of your points 100%, and the bypass cap trick is a great take away. Thanks.
24:00 is possibly the greatest disdain ever displayed against pvc. Love you, man.
Noice. Now if only this video had measurements to show actual differences instead of a guy just sighing at things. :-P
Danny, love your videos. I bought my first stereo in 1970 when I was in the USAF. Everyone in the barracks was buying stereos despite the fact that we were only getting paid about $200 per month. Some of the guys who had been stationed in Vietnam came back with very high end stereos, cameras and other equipment. It was kind of crazy but that's what bored 19-22 year old single guys spent their money on. My first speakers were AR-5s which cost $175 each. My first receiver was the Heathkit AR-15 which I think cost about $300. I used them until 1995 when the woofer cone cracked. Since then I have purchased many other speakers without really understanding the specifications. In the last few weeks I have learned more from your you-tube videos than l learned during all those years.
If I could make a suggestion; it would help me follow the discussion if you could use an electronic pointer when discussing the performance graphs. I would also help if you define what the axes represent on each of graphs. Thanks, keep up the great work.
Thank you for sharing this knowledge. You really know your stuff.
Best explanation out there yet, in layman’s terms of what parts inside a crossover do and differences in quality. Thank Danny.
Sure but this is just a guy saying some stuff is better than other stuff without any actual evidence.
This video would have been so much better if he'd just measure the same crossover output with a cheap / small coild and again with an expensive coil.
Right now it's just "You know, some stuff is better then others, better buy THIS stuff because, well, I say so".
@@IUsedToBeAPygmy I ordered from GR and have it in my mid-fi gear and it sounds great. Don’t knock it ‘till you try it. And maybe you will see what he talking about 🙂
@@IUsedToBeAPygmy He already did that in another video. They measure the same but sound different. Which means the type of measurement that's usually done doesn't measure the type of difference that is heard.
Two cars with 300bhp might not do a 1/4 mile in the same amount of time. Are you going to say that because they "measure" the same, they are going to perform the same?
Air wound inductors. If you want layman's terms , it's just thick copper wire wound into a coil ( you could wrap it around your finger). Simple as. It's just a feedback effect. The magnetic field from one coil interacting with the coil next to it and " chocking" high frequencies. There's nothing layman in any of this it's just Physics at its root.
@@IUsedToBeAPygmy Yes, that is the nature of audiophoolery.
100% Danny. I just recently upgraded the crossover parts, binding posts, internal wiring (from you, thanks, Danny) in a pair of Forte i’s I got from my neighbor. I also put dynamat on the backs of the speakers. I did 1 speaker at a time to see the difference between them, and it was easily audible. So, yes…parts absolutely matter.
Ive git a pair of frotes im looking to upgrade, starting out by using the JEM kit which js the authorised electrolytic cap kit. From there im going to upgrade to film and maybe other components like resostors and inductors. Do you have a kost kf what upgrades you did?
Great video!
I enjoyed all the clear cut info and it's great I can come back and watch it again! 👍😉
This video finally put everything I could hear into perspective. This is absolutely the best crossover video I've ever seen. Thank you!
it happens in the mind, not the hardware
Now I finally understand why the cost of parts make can difference.
Very good material. This is all true and I often tell our company's clients. Crossover parts have a great influence on the sound of a stereo system . Best Regards Wilk-Audio-Projekt
While I absolutely respect speaker builders and the incredible efforts from the audiophile community to achieve better quality, I do feel there is a huge market in “audio grade” components, cables etc and a lot of incentive to sell to the community. So while it’s interesting to hear opinions from experts, I am yet to be convinced that components that measure the same would have any difference to our ears.
Come on over. I'll convince you easily by just letting you listen.
@@dannyrichie9743 I'll take you up on that. Will you perform a blind test on camera here to show your ability to discern difference in crossover capacitors? It will be a simple test, you only need to listen and write down your answers, I'll do the rest. The results will be shown in the same video. I think it would be prudent to do an analysis of networks with measurements first to show any electrical differences, then the blind test to see if there is a difference in signal then how audible is it.
What say you? Would you do this test on camera?
@@captainbeefheart8797 Sure, come on down.
@@glengatt3941 I wish it were true that none of this made any difference. It would make my job infinitely easier, and far more predictable. Unfortunately for pretenders to the throne, EVERYTHING done in an audio component makes a difference to varying degrees. The difference between a true master of the art, and the hobbyist is the true understanding and experience that comes from spending DECADES of your life perfecting the craft of creating the fine instruments we refer to broadly as “ High End” audio.
This microfarad is faster than that microfarad. End of discussion.
To receive decades of information from some one free of cost is amazing.Being in electronics for ever I can remember when there was no were to find answers was trail and error this is priceless.Can you do video on 12 volt system like JL to speakers subs and there amps.
Great information and knowledge!!!!
I experimented with my crossovers for years and not only learned a lot, but increased the quality of sound; however, when I converted my speakers to an active crossover... it was then I started hearing what I wanted.
Are you talking analog or digital active cross-overs?
@@kawmic7 I am using a DBX Drive Rack Pa2, between the preamp and the amplifiers.
@@russmaleartist so digital.
you probably didn't use $600 capasitors the size of coke cans :D
@@russmaleartist DBX Drive Rack Pa2 that's not even low end HiFi grade, it's a PA system component.
I would like to see a comparison. I would like to see how a crossover with cheap components compares to a expensive crossover with the same values just better quality components. I would like to see how it affects the sound. Keep the videos coming. I never miss them
Here you go: ruclips.net/video/cDl1hhT4ETU/видео.html
You can learn about our accessories. Erse brand😆
David Frazier best way to find out is to do it yourself (been down that path plenty of times) used duelland caps for my power supply for the clock in a cd player transport
Buy a used set of speakers, pull it open, replace the components for the midlevel stuff shown here for 50 bucks or so and go to town listning to stuff.
It will give you all the snsweres you are searching for.
There are more values to a cap and inductor than just the Farad and Henry values like esr, esl for Capacitor esr, epc, epr for inductor. You have to look at the data sheets to see what is best for your application/tune around it.
It is very interesting to listen to a person explain that without numbers.
I haven't built anything as of yet, but I'm learning a lot from your videos on this subject.. It's very interesting to learn of the quality or bad quality of components inside of a speaker. Most people don't know what they're paying for. Same for computers could be said. Thank you for your knowledge.....
I never understood why audiophiles still design boards on a 2 dimensional plane when space is not really an issue.
My 3d circuits capture the crispness in the highs plus low frequency depth and complexity with an absolutely flirtatious mid-range sweetness while cancelling out the bad vibes and irresponsible harmonic overtones that have led to the downfall of art in the 21st century. For the internal wiring I use hope. Really, a true miracle.
can you show examples ?
Wow you continue to impress with your knowledge and willingness to share it. You're a gem!
This was interesting. I would however like some AB sound tests and/or oscilloscope read-outs to actually show this difference. It would help to visualize impact using different types of parts
So many of thee brands have raised their prices beyond what's reasonable
To Insanity!!😠😠😠😠😠😎😎
Low sales = higher msrp - so more profit margins on less units sold - They’re looking to score
big on the high end I don’t blame them if a few people are willing to spend -that’s the American way -free enterprise man
@@5Antvin I sure hope that was sarcasm, you're completely out of touch
@@jamesrobinson9176 not out touch just giving a reason for the crazy prices on hi end as there’s still great value on mid fi products --I know the business -musical instrument manufactures are going this route -China made less expensive and US ,euro -MIJ ( very high labor rates not just parts $ as Danny always brings up but labor rates )will be very expensive and more exclusive as less and less people are purchasing new hi end goods
Stereo manufactures most of which are basically small
Businesses in scale may be out of touch to a certain degree as unlike a phone or tv computer a stereo is not a real world item anymore, but they have to sell product and make moolah to obviously stay in biz
I’ve learnt so much watching these videos thank you
Finally ,a guy that is relatable too.
Plain English explanations.
Thank you.
An enlightening, and thorough lecture, and demonstration on electronic parts, and design.🔉🎵🎶
Sir! I've listened to audiophile experts for years and I know when someone knows what they are talking about. I have no tolerance for snake oil and You Are the Best at cutting through the Snake Oil! I MUST Subscribe to your RUclips channel. SHALOM!
@Albert Jennings I agree he is one of the best "Snake Oil Salesmen" out there. Love his techno mumbo jumbo like "smear". 🤣 I would love for him to tell me how to measure it and at what levels are considered good, bad, acceptable "smear".
I’m taking Engineering classes here. He means business. He knows his stuff. I salute you, sir!
Incredible ability to teach.
Thank you
Highly informative, Thanks for sharing !
Just stumbled on this site, great video, very clear explanations. Subscribed.
1:18 Without waching the whole video i can absolute agree with this statement. There is a big difference between cheap and 'good' parts. But there's also a border when 'high-end' parts become expensive without hearable results. Speaker cables are such a money pit.
Thank you for this video! I am now inspired to rebuild my 1990 M&K S-1b satellites with Solen caps. May end up doing bypass caps as well but not a first. Dayton audio resistors you showed. Solid core wire you sell. CMC short binding posts. A second crossover board so the coils can be separated and arranged for less interference. I’m sure more could be done but this is pretty extensive for my knowledge level. Hopefully will have some nice performance changes when all done. Thank you Danny for your videos and knowledge sharing.
Excellent discussion. I used to sell those Usher Be-718's BTW. Then someone from Usher told a customer by my store, to go into my store and listen to them, then call him and he'd give them a better price than we could. So that was the day I stopped selling Usher. Manufacturers turning on their retailers is running rampant right now, especially in the days of Covid. They're using us for the showroom experience, then they're selling direct to the customer. Many are even withholding inventory to their dealers but showing it in-stock online on their websites, so they get the sale, and we don't. It's sad. Anyway, I want to design a speaker with top-notch parts like you've got here because I know it makes a difference. Also, I've got JBL K2 S9900's now in my personal reference system. You've got me wondering what parts they used in the crossover. Hmm.
I'm going up to that next level right now. Migraine just kicked in, and thus I now have partial loss of vision. It started just after the beginning of watching this video. Fortunately that is as far as it goes these days at 66 years old. Back when it first hit me long long ago, it caused a nasty headache, paralysis of my right arm, loss of speech, and numbness on the right side of my upper lip. Scared the heck out of me. Anyhow, after fixing all the 22 Faders in my 45 year old Soundcraftsmen PE2217 Preamp - Equalizer, I am trying to find out how I can use equipment to set things as best as possible while using my home made 1978 huge speakers. Well, that is as far as I can get, I can just barely read my text at this moment. Thank goodness for auto spell check.
Great explanation!
Thank you for creating and posting.
Thank you very much. This was spot-on education.
Great informative info thks Danny
Very interesting insight…. thank you for posting…
KCB🙂🇬🇧👍
Hi there Danny. Many thanks. I'm just getting back into building a system, for the first time in many years. Before I begin, I'm repairing the old stuff I have. Just to see what's going on. A/B test. Now there is a DAC, streaming audio, and power supply EMI/RF, isolation. Plus 1 value in some column if there is an imaginary tracking system for that 'stuff.' Anyway, I have ototoxic hearing loss. Building a system anyway, starting with repairing the old things I have. I cannot predict what I can be able to hear. Technics 'new class A' and the first speakers to use are Magnat 144 series. Thanks again. Ohm L2s crossover boards are being redone, you have helped me a bit. As much as anyone, Kent Larson has a 2 minute video demonstrating inductors and capacitors in a signal.
Wow! I'm a fan. Thank you for this channel. I've always wanted to know more about the solid-state components from another perspective. Thank you
Many thanks for your video!
The quality of parts in speakers matters just as much as the quality of parts in anything else you buy...it comes down to reliability, durability and consistency in performance...I work on knives for a living and I see these things play out on a daily basis...if it was all the same, the upgrades market would have failed pretty quickly if people weren't seeing and hearing the difference of the money they spent
I changed tone caps in my guitar amp, and it made a huge difference. Same value components, but different materials. It was substantial enough to convince me not to waste time arguing with deniers. There's no reasoning with them. They will only stare at numbers on a bench, and rigged test that support their claim. They also have unlimited free time for debate, rather than conducting actual experiments. Deniers never get involved in anything that would prove their theory wrong. If they do they blame the results on environmental variables. If that fails they will say that the results weren't substantial enough to justify the expense. Same set of arguments every time. The like to place the burden of proof on someone else. Rather than explaining real world results, they go to the math first. It's bizarre. Ignore them.
Diminishing returns while chasing impossible perfection is asinine and does nothing but stroke egos.
Good discussion Danny, a lot of good points made. Great video for all DIY’ers to watch.
One of if not the most informative video I've ever seen, I now know I won't skimp with my Scan-Speak drivers
good explanation of how the parts work, but don't forget to mention that capacitors only pass AC and block DC (as do transformers) which is an important aspect of how valve amplifiers work. (great explanations of that by fellow Texan resident Uncle Doug on his RUclips channel)
Thanks for such an informative video! I bet I learned FAR more useful information about crossovers by watching your video than I have learned reading 3 months worth of reading. Again, thank you!
It'd be very cool to see a few crossover designs, using varying price points of components.. then review and abx test and see what is thought to be best. Really nice info here, thanks for taking the time to share.
Been there, done that, and shot a video on it: ruclips.net/video/cDl1hhT4ETU/видео.html
Some measurements of how the frequency response, harmonic distortion and time delay changes would be cool too.
Havent been checkin YT too much lately, lovin the production quality upgrades Danny!
Wow! Thank you. I learned a lot on this video.. I have started saving money for my GR Kit, what increases cost is international shipping.
I would like to subject this guy to a blind sound test of these different parts. I imagine it would be like the time I was debating the wisdom of buying expensive components such as his brand new 20 channel equalizer... I finally said that I thought he couldn't even tell if the EQ was even on (he had just spent hours fine tuning every channel) and while he scoffed and laughed at me I flipped off the EQ, turned up the volume slightly, and held my hand over the on/off EQ light and asked him "is it on or off" ... he listened intently... then cracked a big smile and said with 100% confidence "It's on!" I removed my hand showing him the EQ was in fact off. How about the right woofer and piezo = no crossovers at all!
A detailed, easy to understand video on a quite complicated matter. Well done. Thank you for your efforts to educate us.
Thank you, thank you, thank you. I have tried preaching this till I am blue in the face. Now I can point people to this video and say watch this.
Yes parts matter. I am particularly intrigued by the comment made about high purity copper wire vs silver coated Teflon due to its pores state. I use Teflon coated silver clad wire to listen to my speakers. Phase shift in theory is an issue and in some cases (for example bad insulation resistance i.e. too low impedance) But Teflon has excellent resistance and is a very good insulator, but as you said needs the silver cladding to prevent spot welding between multi-strand wires. Inakustik make good wires too. Would it be better to use pure silver to negate this issue? I also like your Polyethylene reference for insulation because this shows your transparency regarding what wire to use and insulation. I really appreciate your video. Thanks.
Best explanation of component role on speaker quality I have heard.
A much needed video for many of us, I imagine. Thanks so much for posting.
Have you done a video on cabinet physics, especially concerning cabinets that are designed to bring out the best audio on set of speakers? Are there speakers are more limited by cabinet design than parts? Really enjoy the channel.
Danny talks about this topic a lot, just watch his content. A great place to start would be his 4-part on open baffle basics.
This is really cool, and it sounds like a lot of this could be demonstrated with some measuring tools like an oscilloscope or multi meter. Would be interesting to see the difference.
To even see 1% THD on a sine wave is really tough to see on an oscilloscope. Distortion is a change in shape of the frequency. Here is a little secret about the universe, the Fourier theorem. Any signal, no matter how complex the shape is nothing more than the sum of multiple sine waves of different frequencies. Most distortion analyzers can measure something a million times smaller than the original signal (-120db) while some better equipment can go to 10 million times small (-140db). For example .01% second harmonic distortion is present, what does that mean. Well if we are measuring 1kHz sine wave, then that means that at the output there is not only 1kHz but also now 2kHz but -60db below the 1kHz input signal. If you know your maths that's a difference of 1000. So that means at the output we can have 1000v at 1khz and 1v of 2kHz added together. Do you really think if something 1000 times smaller is going to be audible? Most likely not but -60d isn't really a great number in regard to fidelity, your typical DAC is reaching -120db easily now which is a million times smaller. We have the ability to measure very small differences in signal shape. Beyond measuring the difference in shape of a signal then we can also measure the difference in amplitude (peak potential), difference in phase (time difference between input/output). If the signal itself hasn't changed, which we can easily measure then there can be zero audible change. So when this fool is saying okay we measure no change but there is still an audible change, it's BS. When he makes a statement of "we don't know how to measure the correct things" that only means he has no idea what he is measuring and he also has no clue about electronics in a serious educational sense; e.g. he is a hack to the highest degree and take what he says with a grain of salt or else you will empty your wallet for nothing while making his wallet fatter. To give him credit, I don't know how or what he measured, if he is just looking at an oscilloscope screen it's not going to tell you very much because it's not accurate enough to notice even a 1% distortion, it still looks like a nice clean sine wave. He needs at the very least a distortion analyzer good down to at least -100db to be even meaningful. At -100db most things are considered not audible because it's such a small difference being 100,000 times smaller. If he used a distortion analyzer and did a few other tests he could definitively say if there is an audible difference or not. Instead he just hand waves like a prophet from god and states what he says as gospel when it's truly garbage.
@@captainbeefheart8797 most comprehensive reply I've read all week
Some measuring tools LOL.
What you gonna see, some numbers on a display and /or a bouncing line on a screen.
Good luck interpreting even an enormous difference on those.
If you are able to interpret anything at all.
never gonna happen, welcome to GR research.
@@captainbeefheart8797 if an oscilloscope cant measure the difference, how could i hear the difference?
Great video and explanation 👍
I really appreciate your channel, just can't shake the feeling that your speaker upgrades must also involve upgrading parts and wiring in amps and other devices in the signal path meaning that it is in fact a never ending road with our passionate hobby 😁
Than you Danny for an informative video. It has helped my understand heaps
Man Ron over at NRD has really been rubbing off on you. Production quality has gone way up! Great discussion as always Danny.
Yep, he is to blame for all of that.
It seems that simply filming in the listening room has had a great effect on the audio and visuals, as the room is treated and the backdrop is not busy ;) Always love your content! I’d watch if you filmed in the back of a dump truck in a swamp with a wild onion hanging out your teeth.
Fantastic video - subscribed
First class information. I often choose speakers based on the quality of the components in the crossover. But it is often not worth making changes in the crossover due to the poor quality of the speakers.
Good video, helped understand value of each part.
Looks like you are starting to ruffle some feathers Danny, asked a famous reviewer to show us the crossover & after a bit of waffle, I think the answer was NO!, In fact , I think he would like you to provide audio samples of before & after, to prove that upgrading parts actually improves the sound of a speaker. It would seem taking the top off an amplifier to have a look is fine but not speakers!, You wouldn't buy a car without having a look under the bonnet... I am going to keep asking the question, I hope others do as well, if the crossover is built to the same standard as the rest of a speaker, then why not show it, regardless of budget, keep up the good work👍
Excellent video explaining the importance of parts quality. For the naysayers, like anything out there yes there is the law of diminishing returns but like anything else if you want the best then you have to pay; to simply say that why do we need copper foil capacitors in speakers when some cheap metalized film ones will do its the same as saying why do you need titanium screws in a race cars when steel ones will do....its the fraction of seconds that you are persuing, same in audio its the tiny differences that at the top level make the big differences...
Good analogy.
Great great stuff! Thanks!
I did SVS ultra towers and center speaker upgrade from GR research and blow mine mind if you have some many to spare and imagination how to put it together You are a Winner 👍
So helpful!! Thank you
thanks. very informative.
Thank-you for your time and effort Danny!
Génial. Ceux sont de très bons crossovers. Bravo l’artiste.
Danny, Bro! This is an outstanding video. However, I’m listening through my 2-channel with a sub. There is so much rumbling coming through because the microphone is being abused, lol. I work in TV sometimes and build studios and the computers that run them. I also run the audio board and video switcher. You really have to set up a full range live monitor or full range headphone to know what is going out over the air. It can be confusing if you don’t do it right. It can sound like every single thing is being recorded if you have the headphones or monitors setup incorrectly. In your case, you might be having the opposite problem. You might not be hearing all the low frequency noise and so you’re blissfully unaware. Have a listen through hi-fi and you’ll see what I mean. I have the aux output on the spare TV running to the McIntosh MA252 hybrid amp into my HSU Research sub ( the amp has a sub preout built in) and vintage infinity Modulus 90 satellites, as they were called. By the way, they have the same drivers used in the IRS BETA giant sub/sat system. PS Audio just copied the drivers for their new $30K speakers. But I bet you could make them sound better! With the original 12” sub (also borrowed from the IRS BETA), they got a recommendation from Stereophile BITD. Thanks for all the great videos.
Fascinating content.
What do you think about metalized polyester capacitors? Are there differences to polypropylene capacitors?
They are a little cheaper and a step below polypropylene.
Instead of handwaiving explanations, this was tested at ASR. Bottom line was that any poly cap is as good as any other poly cap, and “improvements” beyond that have no measurable effect. So just use low cost poly caps and air core chokes and don’t listen to “this cap sounds different to that” because it simply isn’t true.
They are just taking measurements and theorizing a result over there. They do no real science. Nothing they say over there can even be taken seriously.
Thank you for splaining about the finer points of parts quality . Every video I watch makes me feel more confident that I will be able to build my own speakers . After leaving this comment I’m going to your website to look for a project. Thanks again 👍👍
Interesting video. Only thing I struggle to wrap my head around is at what point is it better to get a better speaker with better drivers. Like yeah for a lot of people sending in their speakers they already own making them sound as good as possible within reason makes sense but in the situation where you're looking to buy speakers that you eventually plan to upgrade at what point does having the better driver make more of a difference. Like lets say you have a $500 budget, spending $100 on speaker and $400 on upgrades I would imagine would be worse than a $300 speaker with $200 of upgrades or $400 with $100 on upgrades assuming all speakers are reasonably well designed within their price target.
Second questions is what makes more of a difference between parts and where they are assuming your upgrade isn't changing the design. Like lets say you have a $200 upgrade budget is it better to stack upgrades on one part like high end parts on tweeter and midrange parts on the woofer or upper midrange on both, etc.
Also is there any difference in longevity these days with parts? For example I know older crossover parts can go out of spec or dry up so is it possible that might be the reason some parts are used over others?
I suppose it's going to come down to the speaker you are upgrading . Some may have great drivers and bad parts. Some may have bad drivers and parts .
The crossover parts seem to be more expensive. Look at the xls encore the woofer is 30 and the tweeter is 50 . Not expensive but great drivers. You could spend hundreds even more on a crossover. The better drivers will insure there are less parts in the design which will result in a cheaper crossover in the long run.
@@toecutterjenkins Very true. Definitely a lot of variables especially considering a lot of the speakers that come through aren't designed as well as they could (rp600m comes to mind). I guess I'm just thinking when as many variables are proportionally even as possible, where are the high value parts. I guess thinking of it from a diy sense is better but if I put all my money into one side of the puzzle be it drivers or crossover parts where an I getting a better return on my money.
@@TylerStout I have encores and for the price I don't think you can go wrong as a starting point. Especially if you have the skill to build the boxes yourself. I used 4 pieces of 1x12x48" mdf shelving from HD the cost less than 4 bucks each.
Thank you for keeping it simple Danny.
I can say this as a truck driver and part time mechanic, parts do matter. I can get inexpensive sensors, or other mechanical bits, and rarely do they work, or last longer than what the OEM produces. I cannot see it being any different in the manufacture of audio speakers and gear. Just as in automotive parts, I can walk into a plant making say interior pieces or carpet. They have lines for say GM, Ford, Chrysler, Toyota and Honda. The first three carmakers are of lesser quality than the last two. It is no different in audio or electrical bits. And as Danny stated, for only a few pennies more the quality can be had.
@Michael Wright I can whole heartedly agree that quality and price do matter. But for some reason in the audiophile community there seems to be a large contingent of "Snake Oil Salesmen", who will happily take large sums of your money for something that does absolutely nothing for the end sound. If you look at a price/quality ratio graph you will see it's logarithmic, meaning in the beginning of the curve there are good quality improvements for not much of a price increase. However the curve soon starts to rapidly rise and the price skyrockets for little if any improvement in quality. This is where the "Snake Oil Salesmen" like to live by selling you $10,000/ft speaker wire and telling you that if you can't hear the difference between that and $1/foot speaker wire there is something wrong with you because they can hear it. Then they tell you there are no measuring instruments that can verify that but if your a true audiophile you could definitely tell the difference.
You could take things a lot further.
Buy a box of the best you can, then measure each part and match up so you can have the same or as close possible in the left and right.
My price starts at $ 1000 plus parts. 😊
Exellent! Couldn't be explained better.
I have enough high-end hearing loss that I doubt I'd be able to justify paying for really great speakers.
Speaker material, coil material and magnet are crucial. If you look at pro level speakers, you get spl’s of 119, 125 or even 135 spl.
Crossovers are important for splitting frequencies but a higher spl speaker will require less power and usually have better clarity at lower power.
Even better,if the system can have a linear power curve through the EQ section, then clarity is greatly increased over the power range
Just as a healthy heart depends on our habits and keeps us alive and kicking. The heart of a fantastic pair of speakers is all about the crossover matching well with what is manufactured. I don't put cheap poly caps in the crossovers I build. But then I love to hear speakers that reveal the fullness of the studios intentions.
Hello Danny I agree with you, I am crazy in DIY stuff what you have mentioned in the video you are 100% correct but some ignorant people do not agree and said snake oil. All my tube amp, CD and speakers I upgraded all capacitor the change was so great. By the way what brand of foil inductor you have been use Mundorf or Jantzen???
Love the Description and Explanation of each components function in the Crossover.
I've used Capacitors in parallel (As you have) in a speaker crossover. However, I'm still ironically confused as to what exactly what application you would use a Bypass Capacitor in the crossover. Is it more beneficial for the Tweeters?
That's one thing I haven't seen in any vintage speakers I've worked on.
Thank you for this clear explanation of the crossover components that is geared toward the layperson or non electrical engineer crowd. Now I feel like I have at least a very basic understanding of how all of these components combine to influence the output of the speaker.
I need a kit for my Polk Audio LSiM 705's!! I'd love to see what you can do for them
I started designing building speakers and I been using 14 gauge Jantzen inductors and Jantzen capsitors the blue oxygen free copper wire and silver solder and solder point to point and I noticed a huge difference my speakers are better quality than most higher end speakers I even saw high end speakers using steel connectors . I get in arguments about if it makes a difference on websites and I don't care I would rather use better quality than take a chance . So what if I spend $30 for one capsitor it's my design I would spend more if could
Thanks for the explanation on by-pass Caps! Was on the fence with them until I tried it out; it's a very good bang for buck 'by-pass' to outright upgrading larger electro caps (~100uf) to film caps due to costs and size.
Did you bypass these electrolytic caps? Does it work? I've read some contradicting stuff about it. I know they work amazingly on poly caps
@@nathanvanstralendorff2405 I found it tightened up the bass when it was added to the LF section of a 3-way circuit. Ideally it's completely upgraded from electro to film when possible.
@@QuinYip Greatly thanks for your response. Well test it out as soon I'll get the Caps. Thanks again.
@@nathanvanstralendorff2405 hope it goes well! I used the Cornell Dublier 940c 0.01uf for bypass duties. I believe Vishay also has a notable cap for this purpose too.
@@QuinYip I've had Vishay in the past and some Russian PIO Glass envelop which were really nice, sweet and musical. Do/did you like the Cornell bypass caps?
Thanks Danny, super helpful
Who are the idiots that say parts quality don't matter, this would make Rupert neve turn over in his grave. Parts and engineering are everything.
Hi Danny. Let's say I'm running 25' lengths of speaker wire... should I use 10g multi strand or single solid strand oxy-free copper in poly wire? Thanks. Awesome vid and info!!!
If speaker manufacturers can improve the sound of their products by just adding a few more dollars in xover parts, could it be they deliverately do this to justify the price increase in their more expensive models?
According to Danny even the expensive models have poor quality parts. It is far more likely that it just doesn't make a worthwhile difference very often. Danny's opinions on this and emphasis he puts on crossover parts are at odds with the science and general consensus within the loudspeaker design community.
@@myleso-k2068 I couldn't disagree with you more , you obviously haven't rebuilt any speakers of your own
@@myleso-k2068 It is more a question of distortion versus power level. No matter if it is the cabinet construction, the drivers or the crossover, audible distortion will obviously increase with the power level. So, crossover quality is only on parameter to check. If the cabinet resonate at certain frequencies and power level, the sound will suffer accordingly. The same applies to drivers, poor design and construction will impede the possibility to perform at higher power. We have to remember most of the mesurements are taken at only 1 watt of power, hence we can't see the distortion creeping in at that level. This is one of the reasons some speakers sound changes dramatically when you crank up the volume. Every company have their recipe to squeeze the most bang for their buck of investment. Crossover parts are one of the strategies they use to save a few dollars and since most people do not open their speakers to look inside, they have no idea if they have good value for the asked price. Also, companies invest more in publicity and marketing strategies than research and devlopement (R&D). Having myself modified over 100 pairs in the last 35 years, the before and after changes are audible more if you push the volume. This is a consensus in the scientific community.
@@myleso-k2068 What Danny says, in so many ways, in many of his videos, makes complete sense.
Every part of a speaker build has an effect on the output.
The cabinet, the drivers themselves, the crossovers, everything. Absolutely everything.
When his goal is to have a consistent signal that's as flat as can be, his goal is to accurately reproduce audio signal that was mastered by the artist in a production room. During production, when the audio is mastered, the artist and others dictate the strength of say The clash of a symbol or the guitar or the drum beat because that's how they want it blended. When that signal is played and sent out to a speaker, the moment a speaker design does not accurately represent a flat signal, you lose what the artist may or may not even have intended for you to hear.
Even then, once you get a speaker to produce as flat as possible, your next challenge is the room that you're listening to it in.
Crossover tuning to attempt to improve speaker design flaws and cabinetry flaws and sound room treatment so that way the audio can be heard as the original Mastered audio signal is sent to the speakers.
Plus, if you're selling thousands and thousands of units, $100 or more in improved components makes a huge difference to the bottom end and sometimes that "savings" looks impressive on paper more so than adding more cost to some of these speakers that are already ridiculous in price.
In the end, even the best produced and most accurate speaker with all of the best components can still not sound impressive in a room that sucks. So that's likely where the difference comes in to where people don't think that these components make the difference.
I bet if you change the crossover components and listen to the speakers in an anechoic chamber you will hear every difference he speaks of.
@@myleso-k2068 As someone who built and designed his own speakers, as well as sold hifi for over a decade, expensive crossover components are a poor waste of resources. A $50 cap connected to a $50 Tweeter is insane, when a $5 cap connected to a $95 Tweeter will always sound better, all other things being equal. Let Danny compare two capacitors of the same value (Within 2%), one a cheap poly, and the other an expensive film cap, and connect them to a tweeter and measure the frequency response, impulse response, distortion levels, and decay, and show us the differences. If a copper film cap can make such an audible difference, it absolutely will show up in one of those measurements.
Xrayronyb showed the effects of tone controls on a signal from 20 to 20K. Yes, reactive components cause phase shifting
Finally…..someone was able to explain bypass capacitors in a language I can understand! Thank you.
Dal Migliori!
WOW - now I totally get it. Wish I had this lecture when I started out in electronics because JC theory SUUUCKEDDDDDDD~!!!! ~@@~ This is like the advantage that Wozniak had starting out - basically same idea - optimizing circuits through available components (in his case mostly A/D hybrid logic circuits.) Which came from his father's eng. work in HP testers and calculators.
Very great video