Lol I had a rocker arm break off on my 5th injector and I drove it 1200 miles back home and rolled up to my garage and replaced it myself in like an hour and half. Love my Detroit
Overhead camshaft engines> diesel or gasoline : when its' cold outside, and these are started, oil takes a second or more, to reach up there. This causes, metal wear, for a few moments. Over time, can cause problems. Heavy pressure, on rocker arms, when this happens. Years ago, a fellow trucker had a 290 cummins, in a Western Star. He was pulling B trains, and bent his pushrods. Another cause, could be he was lugging the engine: too low of rpms', for power stroke. Good Luck, all.
I started noticing excess pressure in the coolant tank back in November 2020. I bought a complete Reman engine, and decided to hotrod it. I figured I'd run the current 12.7 until it shit the bed, maybe get another month or two out of it before engine swap. Boy was I wrong, ran it from November 2020 until June 8th, 2021, a solid 8 months. Finally got to the point where in the last week of May, I couldn't shut it down for more than a few minutes because coolant was filling the cylinders and it smoked terribly on start up. Didn't want to throw a rod, so out with the old, in with the reman. I have owned a C15, an n14, a deleted 08 ISX 600 and a bunch of 12.7 Detroits. I like the other brands, can't talk bad about yellow or red, but I will go to my grave as a fan of the little mean green Detroit machine.
The world headquarters in Redford Michigan. I worked for years in the liner department. I have made literally hundreds of thousands of series 60 liners. And yes, thousands of 2 cycle 53, 71, 92 and 149’s. Then in 07, I went over to the new cell and began manufacturing the DD13 and DD15 liners. Now I work in turbos! I love it here. It’s the best place ever!
hi. i had a cummins engine, in one of my trucks. Freightliner COE. and it was flawless. This was the N engine, older style, 70s with jake brake. 350 cummins.
My Pre EGR 14L 575 HK is the best engine ever built. Over 2 million miles. Rebuilt and tuned to 600hp at 1.6 million. It works circles around the new trucks and never lets me down.
I used to work at a Detroit shop and loved these motors. One suggestion to people that have them is to keep up the cooling system maintenance as they love to cavitate (cause little pin holes) in the liners that end up making you rebuild the motor before it really needs it. Basically Detroit says to measure the coolant additive that prevents cavitation every oil change, but no one ever does that. Even moving to the long life coolant that says the additive is good for 600000 miles starts cavitating after two years. I suggest using long life coolant and replacing it every year for piece of mind.
@@thisismagacountry1318 I'd just stick with the latest Detroit Diesel branded long life coolant. It's gone through some revisions and honestly Detroit Diesel doesn't make it and could be rebranded anything else, but it's the best of the best I'm sure. It's just the design of the Series 60 that cavitates so badly.
Detroit tech here. Old green coolant is what caused the cavitation, Detroit has moved away from that for years. Get the red pre mixed Detroit brand and ya will never have a problem. If you do switch from green to red then you will have to flush of course. Finding parts for these is getting difficult so take care of em.
I've been at Detroit Diesel 24 years. Hired in on 12/16/24 2 cycle line. Meaning #of pistons. 12's were model 71. Single block. 16' were two 8's bolted together. The 24 was a beast. Two twelve cylinders bolted together. With two 12 cranks bolted together. Look up DDC engine with multiple blowers. Unreal. Been on the 60 line. Now it's the DD15, 16 AND 13. Great video. Any questions about DDC I'll try to answer them. Love
@@MakeMoneyTrucking yup and maybe in ur 8s to. my uncle told me he got 8mpg in his 450isx cascadia but he was unloaded, and like 6.6 loaded. and detroits are known to be efficient so yea probably in ur 8s
I build these motors everyday it takes about 3 hours to tear one down in a in frame and about 3to4 hours to put it back together if you got all the parts. We use PAI rebuild kits.
People bitching about EGRs on the 14L. Have you guys dealt with DPF, SCR systems? EGRs should not even be an issue compare to all the new emission crap. You can rebuild a 60 series for the price of a DPF on a new truck.
@John Morgan if I keep my oil changed my cummins won't even do a regen...when I go over...yes it will let me know to do a regen or if I dont it will do one on its own !
Killing the egr in my 14L made a big difference in fuel economy went up slightly from 6.2-6.4 to between 6.5-6.8 hauling 45000-49000 pound loads and climbing the same hills I struggled at 45mph now doing 60-65. WINNING ALL AROUND
@@marceloevera2009 I can't speak for others but they have been pretty good for me and made me alot of money! As well as a few guys I know so I don't know that piece of crap made me a lot of money and continues to this day. I'll take the piece of crap lol 💰😀🤑
I owned a egr 12.7 when it hit 1 million miles I had the trip report printed out, it never had one before that. Lifetime fuel avg 5.3 mpg with 55% idle. And I started driving it at 730,000 miles. And i ran that truck west back to midwest all the time, at the speed limit of whatever state i was in. Bucking wind in Wyoming at 75mph loaded.
Cat 3406 at same time had power, But parts cost 3 times others. It still makes me think all these years later after Detroit building 2 stroke diesels end with the 92 series and make a 4 stroke version due to emissions the series 60. The first try at a 4 stroke diesel and they nailed it. The series 60 was a great engine. They put detroit back on track.
The small block chevy of the Diesel truck world . Spot on info for sure driven many 12.7 and was very impressed with the 14 liter big power and massive torque with little rubber balls coming off the tires when left in high gear going up steep grades ! Don't forget about keeping an eye on the bull gear for wear .
02 freightliner fld. 60 series. Best running most reliable truck. Little rough around the edges. Im 80, 000 50 % of the time hauling trash and its amazing what this motor does (stock). Up and down the hills in Pa day in day out! Passing hopped up petes and kenworths.
It’s now about winning a race uphill. I think the name of the game is keeping about as much money 💰 in your pocket as possible, it all equates to dollars at the end of the day, and The Detroit 60 series is an efficient engine. By the way a 14 L 60 series with a nice tune is no slouch.
Is that the water siphoned off the tops of oil storage tanks or the fracking water that gets injected? I did that for awhile siphoning water off oil storage tanks near Charlotte, TX and the surrounding area. What's the pay around Midland or has it all dried up with Biden's shutdown?
I just had an issue with my 14L 60 Series and I thought it was an injector but it was the rocker arm like yours was. I drove it hard for NINE MONTHS with a completely broken rocker arm and it never quit! (I kept driving it because all the mechanics kept misdiagnosing it for injector failure but that never fixed it. It was the rocker arm.)
Definitely true. My 2002 Columbia 12.7 60 has 1,655,000 miles currently. The most major work ever done around the engine was a leaking head gasket that leaked coolant outside of engine and the bullgear had to be replaced once after we found a small piece of gear tooth on the oil plug. That's it. Never been overhauled, haven't replaced a single fuel injector in over 10 years that I have personally been driving it. It doesn't consume oil between oil changes at around 10k-12k miles and an all year round fuel milage average is 7 mpgs, over 7.5 in summer and about 6.2-6.5 in the winter. I thank God that I've been blessed with having this truck because I've really had great success making money with this truck because it's been so reliable and inexpensive to maintain. This truck works for me and makes me money and not the other way around as a lot of others unfortunately have had to. It also helped this truck that it came with a 10spd auto shift with clutch pedal and steer axle air ride suspension, it kept the whole plastic columbia cab in one piece. Elhamdulillah.
@@vroor32 yes definitely, in the 20 years of it's working life the air bags were replaced once and the leaf spring once also and no other issue with it
@@ademirdizdarevic6434 👍🏼...I saw a Columbia in a junkyard with that system and thought of grabbing it. Or do u think I should go brand new? I have a 1999 century
Yes they are great. I put 1500K or 1.5 million on one and it was still running great but it didn't pull any longer and a lot of blow-by from the tube. Only remember one injector failure during those years. Very reliable but I still enjoy hearing the two strokes I started with in 1980
I think it is. There's 2 of them on the Northwestern. Its weakness is in the fuel delivery system. The only serious issues I ever had with this motor is in , blown turbo, injector, and cracked liner. But thousands of miles apart, and different trucks.
My pap was a truck driver and had a 9200i international Eagle 2002 and it has a 12.7 60 series it lasted him until he retired last year from 2002 - 2020 and still working since it’s his truck and it has over 3,700,000 miles and only 1 over haul
Back in 2005-06, I had the great pleasure of driving a 2001 International 9400 Eagle, 60" Pro Sleeper, with a Series 60, 13-speed. It had 270,000 on the odometer when I got it and it was a fuel sipping powerhouse!!! I ran mostly east coast and stayed east of the Mississippi and averaged 6.5mpg, hauling around 77,000 gross. I'll take a 60 anytime! Drove it for a year and only replaced 1 fuel filter. It never gave me a problem and never left me stranded.
I agree, l drove one of those as a company driver, that truck was 15 years old and still was sending new Volvo to the grave. I hope l can find one to buy it as my second truck.
Thanks, that's encouraging. I've heard good things about Cummins reliability, but the Detroit 60 series is always near the top of favorite engine lists. Will look for an 06 or 07 pre-Def motor. Any suggestions which place has the best deals on those?
I was driving a glider for SCHNEIDER with a Detroit. It started knocking so I took it in for the weekend and they said it was nothing wrong with it. I know motors are not supposed to knock but I wasn’t a mechanic and fresh out of school. I drove the truck with that knock for months and never broke down during my first year as a driver before leaving.
I have a buddy who has built 12.7 to handle 1000hp, he runs it at 950 and he still gets 7mpg in a westernstar 4900. When he detuned it for 600 he got 9mpg loaded. And it sits happy at 1900rpm at 98 mph
I just watched a video by HT where he was saying you got to get your bull gear inspected on these motors because if the bearing on it goes out, it will destroy the motor
Many years ago I drove from la to Texas with a broken piston pin as long as I didn’t use engine bracke I did good I had to keep putting oil 10 gallon but it come home with a broken piston can’t get any better than that I was amazed by that ,,, s 60 Detroit my engine of choy👍👍👍👍
I have a pre egr. Currently just over 3million km(180k miles). 575hp, just over 5mpg gross around 93k lbs. Been a great engine, reliable, still doing interstate. A few issues, but never left me stranded on the road side
Honestly not a trucker, don't ever really plan to be but operate Light Mediums at work. But recently developed a crush on the Argosy and like that many of them came with 12.7 60s
I stand by the 60 series for many reasons and I love how you can beef me up! Their parts are Reliable!!!!! They run a long time because of their parts!!! I love my 60 series!!! We had a Volvo with a 12.7 and it had 1.5 million on it and it ran good, a bit of blow by and some shit but it still ran well
Girlfriends dad has a 60 series in his lobster boat. Tons of power, good fuel economy and stays real cool. Pretty rugged motor. He said he’d take another one over any other motor for his boat
I've owned many 60 series and I agree that it's likely the best all around engine. excellent life to overhaul,good MPG and cheap to repair/inframe. I've also owned a few big HP/Modified Cats and while they give good MPG ,they are EXPENSIVE to inframe but will kill a 60 in a pull. always wanted to modify a 14 liter w/out EGR to just see.. got a buddy with a 1000 whp 14 liter that gives my Cat a run..hard to argue the economics of a 60 though.. THANKS FOR THE VID !
Thank you for watching and commenting I think a build series might be coming soon on my 14.0 detriot. I had a 750hp Australian tune for a little while but turbo couldn't handle it. It was nasty pulled hard
Dude you're soooo right. The company I worked for 13 yrs. FleetPride truck parts in North Haven CT leased a day cab from Penske. I drove that 14L 387 miles a day, M-F for 4 years. The ONLY thing that failed that put me on the side of the road was the EGR once. I idled TF outta that monster. Started it at 3:30am and turned it off at 2pm. I could go 3 fulls days without fueling with duel 110 tanks.
@@MakeMoneyTrucking totally understandable. I'm trying to buy a glider right now and the seller has poor communication! He's a "have to call him" in order to get a response from him. My anxiety is on rage right now 😠😠! I want that truck.
Every truck with a 60 series I've ever driven has never broke down other than a minor oil leak a much better engine than the dd15 other than fuel economy
@@yaphett1 im not sure why or how the many detriot 60 series I have had haven't had that bad of problems. But having experience every truck has problems
Oh man.. currently I own 07 Freightliner Classic with Detroit series 60 14 ltr.. it has got 1,775,000 kms on it.. and believe me Sir.. still so strong and reliable.. never gave me hard time.. just replaced the vPOD.. and got the turbo rebuilt just because of some foolish wajax mechanics, which never required a rebuild tho.. and got the motor tuned up 60,000 kms ago.. cams got out really clean, injectors at good pressure, jakes all good..I just love the motor and My Truck.
I have to leave a comment on this since I have a Detroit 12.7 in a 96 t600. I had my engine rebuilt 8 months after I started working my truck I had alot of blowby and my oil pressure was dropping was loosing alittle more oil than I'd like to too. The rebuilt kit I got and all of the parts I got came to about 7k and some change on parts and the guy charged me 4500 to rebuild it and thats taking the motor out and painting it that pretty Detroit blue or green whatever it is lol but thats what I wanted him to do he could have done it inframe without painting it for 3500 note I didn't replace the injectors bc they seemed to be good and rt now I have 168280 miles on the rebuild and still no problem with the injectors but I do feel a miss sometimes like an injector or 2 may be starting to act up but nothing serious. I'm in the Richmond Va area the mechanic is trustworthy and experienced with Detroits my cousin referred him to me and I don't regret it. But anyway great motor for me when I do my ifta sometimes I get 6.7 or 6.5 or I've seen 5. something mpg consistent and I'm a hammer down driver loaded or empty. 1 thing this guy forgot to mention is that these motors seem to like to seep oil from certain places! You'll look at the motor and see oil spots around the oil pan or oil dip stick base or the rear of the motor from where the head and the block meets but when you check the oil the level is always good but it still leaks from places its weird but the old folks say that means it got oil in it thats just what they do lol and oh yea this too you will always have some blowby they do that and its normal to have alittle but when U start seeing it everywhere and when U stop at lights U see it coming up the side of the door windows thats the signs of time for a overhual along with oil pressure being low and loosing oil! Hope this helps someone!!
Ya thats cheap great deal Mine is starting to seap oil out the front cover and around the head so soon I'm going to do a rebuild. I had a 2007 14 that drank about a gallon of oil every month but ran like a champ.
I bought new a '97 Freightliner FLD120 with a 430/470hp 12.7 Detriot. Ran it for 14 years. 2.8 million km. An injector went out at 10 years, so I did an inframe rebuild just incase. Truck was only towed once, due to the hot lead to the ecu corroding at the battery. Still had the untouched turbo on it when I sold it.
Here, is some info: F O R EVERY ONE DETROIT DIESEL SERIES 60: DIFFERENCES BETWEEN 12.7L AND 14L Heavy Duty Detroit Diesel 60 Series | Highway & Heavy Parts If you've heard of Detroit Diesel, odds are you've heard of their Series 60 line of engines. It includes three different enginesan 11.1L, a 12.7L, and a 14L. The 11.1L and 12.7 L were introduced at the same time, but the 12.7 long outlasted the smaller version. It was in production until 2007, when it was completely replaced by the 14L, which came onto the scene in 2001. According to some, the 12.7L is the most popular version of the Series 60, but the 14L is very popular as well. The Series 60 engines were revolutionary when they were introduced because of their electronic control system, which was the first to appear in on-highway engine applications. It's overhead camshaft design was also unique at the time, giving the Series 60 engines a special position in the market. These engines, particularly the smaller ones, were favored by buses, as well as numerous other applications. While not especially popular for busses likes its smaller siblings, the 14L became the favored engine of Freightliner, helped by a joint venture between the two companies. Despite being part of the same engine series, multiple differences exist between the versions, particularly between the 12.7L and 14L. We go through some of those below: DIFFERENCES BETWEEN 12.7L AND 14L SIZE One of the obvious differences between the engine versions is their size. For obvious reasons, the 14L is slightly larger than the other two. This increase in size to many of its components led to performance increases as well. The cylinder bore and stroke both increased on the 14L, from 5.12 in and 6.30 in on the 12.7 to 5.24 in and 6.62 in on the 14L. DISPLACEMENT Another obvious one, but as you can tell by the names, the engine displacement (the amount of air your pistons can pull in, combined) changed significantly between the two versions. It's often measure in liters, and this number directly relates to the power output of your engine, with a higher displacement often meaning more power. The 14L has a bit more power than the 12.7L, but it also tends to use more fuel. HORSEPOWER AND TORQUE The 12.7L only has a horsepower capacity of 380-455 at 1,800 RPM, while the 14L is a bit higher at 425-515 at the same RPM. Similarly, the rated torque on the 14L increased, coming in at 1,550-1650 lb-ft. at 1,200 RPM, up from 1,350-1,550 lb-ft on the 12.7L. This was thanks in large part to the larger crankshaft installed in the 14L. DDEC The Detroit Diesel Electronic Control system (DDEC) is the revolutionary electronic controls found in the Series 60 engines. These have gone through multiple versions, and different ones can be found on the both the 12.7L and 14L. The 12.7L went through the various phases of the DDEC, with the older engines having either the DDEC I, II, or III. DDEC IV was introduced in 1999 and was a part of all new Series 60 engines. This version of the DDEC was released before the 14L, and included changes to the cylinder kit as well. In 2003, an updated version of DDEC IV was released. The 14L also benefits from later versions of the systems, post-discontinuation of the 12.7L, which allows for greater control of fuel injection. So which engine is better? That all depends on who you ask. They both have their advantages, depending on what you're looking for in an engine. Some argue that the older engines were made better, while others enjoy the control and efficiency granted by the newer models. Whichever way you go, the Series 60 line of engines has long proved its reliability and strength. Need parts for your Series 60 engine? HHP has a great selection of parts for both the 12.7L and 14L (and other Detroit engines!). Let our techs help you find what you need! Give us a call at 844-304-7688, or request a quote online.
pre egr 60s 14l are a great engine, i never broken down, they are eazy to work on, good on fuel. there clearances are alot looser that cats hence the blow by so you do have to change oil more regulary as the breaks it down quicker. not as much power as cat/cummins but with a manual if you keep the revs high they still pull good great. down low revs they struggle
Finally someone speaks the truth! Power does matter to me otherwise why be an owner operator...? I never understood guys that bought fleet trucks with their underpowered engines and their 10-speed transmissions: may as well just stay being a company driver and receive all the benefits like healthcare and vacation. But I think it's true that you can Rev the Detroit 60s series engines higher and maintain it there longer than you can with my Cummins N14. I try not to stay above 1700 for any length of time. With a 13-speed transmission, this is easier to do. If you want to know an engine that has great low+RPM torque, try a Mercedes MBE 4000. I hate to admit it but I think below 1300 it had more grunt than my N14: but my Cummins blew it away at mid-range and high range RPMs especially merging on the highway acceleration under load.
@@michaeldunagan8268 MBE4000 is a 12.7 Detroit with a Benz designed head and manifolds, basically. Came about after Daimler Benz bought Detroit. Fleet truck engine.
I drove a 2006 Freightliner tandem that had a Detroit series 60 for the better part of a year. Had an 18 speed behind it. Certainly wasn't the most screamin' engine in the fleet, but you couldn't stop it with an atom bomb. It was a coal truck, and I typically hauled 30 - 35 ton in the bed of the truck every day.
Series 60 Legacy engine is the best for sure. Covered many many miles in a 12.7 doing heavy haulage and dam if that engine couldn't put a smile on my face every time you were in the shit and needed that piece of iron to come through. Spannered many of them and the newer dd 15 series also.
@@thisismagacountry1318 I am a big advocate for larger engine doing less work equates to lower fuel consumption figures and have seen it a lot over the years so you cant go wrong with the larger displacement version. Same architecture design. Either is a good choice.
My dad has a 14L in a 1999 K104 Kenworth. (I live in Australia) pulling 80 ton in 36m road trains and it gets 1.3L per km and it out preformed cats cummins by getting up to cruse speed and fuel economy. And it’s a 2 stroke the jakes sound the best of all motors hands down
I have a love for these engines, my first truck I ever drove had a 12.7 Detroit. Love these engines. I drove for a small company, at the time all the boss man could afford was trucks with plus 1 million mile trucks; but man where those trucks reliable. Those 1 million mile trucks still had plenty of power and life left.
For me if I were to buy a truck it will only have one of three motors. Detroit Series 60(12.7 or 14.0) Cummins N14 Celect Cat 3406B, 3406E, C-15(mbn or 6nz) prefix. Cats are very expensive to maintain, but when kept are very reliable. N14 is one of the most driver friendly engines to work on. You can literally due your own injector cut out without a computer, also possible to rebuild one of the side of the road(three heads opposed to one). Detroit is the cheapest to maintain, if you don’t it’s still the only engine I’ve seen with shit loads of blow by continue to run strong. Rebuilding series 60 is 2nd cheapest to N14 or Big Cam.
he's defenetly not lieing..I got a 2009 Columbia 14 litre..bought in 2012 with 390,000 now today 2022 I have 1,235,357& hv not put but one injector in...number 6 injector and just replace the big holset turbo last week after putting on 800,000 miles on the the truck personally myself.....now head gasket leaking just a little now front right corner ..just seeping out oil..not a major leak... totally bulletproof engine.
My favorite engine the 14.0 I had the same injector go out as well but all other where good. They do leak or seep oil but still will run strong just add a little oil and keep going
@@MakeMoneyTrucking lol..wow.. you're exactly right..mines seep some oil..I have a rear main seal leak but same clutch since I had truck..clutch not bad just dripping some from rear main..while I'm at it gonna have clutch change since already at it and never been changed before but it's not slipping..I think they're bulletproof engines..head gasket seeps just a lil bit I'm gonna run it until the wheels fall off..I don't believe in rebuilding a engine that have 50 psi at 1450 rpm at 65 mph gng dtr & 30/35 psi idling...I'm gonna run it forever
I just bought a beautiful 2009 Columbia with the 60 in it. The engine was rebuilt 6 months ago and has only 65,000 miles on it. New turbo, basically everything new. The guy also also had the whole suspension done. I paid $40k for it. Hoping to make some serious cash before any setbacks.
I prefer the Detroit 71 series 2 stroke The 12v71 is a great truck engine no emissions crap, easy to work on and bulletproof. I had one throw a rod through the side of the block looped the injector and plugged the hole with rags and ran it for a week like that before I fixed it ( welded a patch on block and changed the cylinder kit) It’s still running today 2 in frames later
What this guy says all true. I’m o/o for 20+ years with same 60 serious. 1st overhaul at 1.340000 and still rolling as day one. I got Toronto to Laredo run I’m still getting 7 / 7.5 mi a gallon. Hauling coil and auto parts.
I have a 1999 peterbilt379 with a cat 3406E just a little over 1.3 million miles on it never been overhauled i pull a fertilizer tanker and i get between 6 and 6.3 mpg
I have a 2008 14 liter 60 series and a 6NZ CAT. I honestly don't know which I like better yet. If I can somehow get more torque out of the Detroit it'll be the Detroit. The bottom line is money. So far the Detroit is winning at this point, but I just got it and only put about 20000 miles on it. 260000 on the CAT. Been doing this with my own equipment for 2 years going on 3.
Very easy to get parts for Cats. Much support from cat. I m a cat man and get great fuel mileage from them. I could never get a troit to pull for me but i will agree they are a decent engine and for an owner operator that is just starting is a great option. But as we know if you buy a bad one in any color none of them are really cheap!
@@MakeMoneyTrucking all parts are expensive my friend. Most companies that make engines love the big carriers. They are slowly chocking the small carrier down. Kills my soul because the small guys made this industry. They couldn't stand it that we ran and was proud of the engine that best suited us. Yes I love cats. But I will never shrug my shoulder at any engine that can pull 80000 plus up a 7 degree hill. They are marvelous things.
@@MakeMoneyTrucking and just so yall know if I was offered ANY 2021 truck and my only option was a 50 series Detroit 4 banger I would be driving a 50 series
I swear by the series 60 I drove one for 11yrs hauling trash to a landfill three time a day that's one the harshest environments on a truck I had three brand new Freightliner Columbia's the company I worked for hardly did pm's on time they would let their trucks go 40000 miles sometimes before they would get serviced those trucks would still run the only problems I've ever had was a head gasket and compresser no mechanical problems ever
It really depends on what you are doing over the road it is a good motor for fuel mileage but logging cat will out do a Detroit that gets 6mpg vs cat which will get 5.5 mpg
Well now I'm a real trucker, because I work for Swift! My favorite motor is the infamous Maxx Force! It's really heavy on the lower end which helps keep me from flipping my rig!
I’ve worked on many many trucks and engines over my time but did my main apprenticeship time on series 60 12.7 and 14.0 NON EGR they’re by far the best engine ever made for making money I would say followed by catapillar c12/15. We were getting 1.2-1.5 million out of 14.0 at 550hp 1850ftlbs they all started on double road trains then went onto b-double at about 600,000. I now work for a large fleet company that is cummins through and through we can’t even get to 500,000k now before the first rebuild under warranty or a turbo failure and before that it was EGR coolers and VGT turbo issues. The only thing cummins has going for it here is you can get bits for them from just about everywhere and the service after hours and even in hours is the best nation wide other then that if there was a better option it would be taken but Kenworth and cummins have the market well sewn up here
I was looking to buy a t800 or w900 but I saw an un real amount of Cummins with only 300k to 500k with a note saying they have been rebuilt. That scared me away from Cummins a 300k to 500k motor should not need rebuilt
@@MakeMoneyTrucking yes your right this is why I don’t understand why people aren’t holding these companies responsible. I went from 1 million kilometres + out of series 60, c15 but we never had any such luck out of cummins at the same HP I would say a pretty standard HP in Australia would be 550/1850ftlbs and all the others got the kilometres but cummins kept failing and now we have this new X15 still needs to go back for oil consumption rebuilds WTF is that what you can’t make a cylinder liner round? It rings that last, or what?! And all this injecting of fuel to clean up the emissions I feels that’s just doing more damage then good, oil consumption, oil leaks, turbo failures, ect ect but we stick with it why? I don’t really care what people think but I’d say the best truck motor getting around in Australia at the moment would be the D13 VOLVO we have them with up to 1.4 million and still original and sure you have the manifolds go on them but that’s about the only issues we have engine wise. Anyway keep it real man!! Good luck with the trucks
Yes, I want more power, I can afford it, my gliders are built to 650hp, average between 7.2-7.6 mpg. Why crawl up a hill like a snail with mediocre fuel mileage, when you can run up it like a cheetah and get really good fuel mileage. Power doesn't equal bad fuel efficiency, you'll burn more fuel huffing and puffing up the fancy gap than I will, climbing in a higher gear, less rpm.
The turbocharged howl from the 12.7L can be heard all the way in the back of the coach, the 14L not so much. Lots of acceleration and torque from both. Many Prevost coaches go well past 3 million miles with their Detroit S60 engines, after going through 2 overhauls.
Lol I had a rocker arm break off on my 5th injector and I drove it 1200 miles back home and rolled up to my garage and replaced it myself in like an hour and half. Love my Detroit
Same here I made a video on it ran it for a couple weeks with broken rocker arm and injector down on power but still ran 😀
Overhead camshaft engines> diesel or gasoline : when its' cold outside, and these are started, oil takes a second or more, to reach up there. This causes, metal wear, for a few moments. Over time, can cause problems. Heavy pressure, on rocker arms, when this happens. Years ago, a fellow trucker had a 290 cummins, in a Western Star. He was pulling B trains, and bent his pushrods. Another cause, could be he was lugging the engine: too low of rpms', for power stroke. Good Luck, all.
That’s a good ol Detroit!
😂😂😂🙌
I started noticing excess pressure in the coolant tank back in November 2020. I bought a complete Reman engine, and decided to hotrod it. I figured I'd run the current 12.7 until it shit the bed, maybe get another month or two out of it before engine swap. Boy was I wrong, ran it from November 2020 until June 8th, 2021, a solid 8 months. Finally got to the point where in the last week of May, I couldn't shut it down for more than a few minutes because coolant was filling the cylinders and it smoked terribly on start up. Didn't want to throw a rod, so out with the old, in with the reman. I have owned a C15, an n14, a deleted 08 ISX 600 and a bunch of 12.7 Detroits. I like the other brands, can't talk bad about yellow or red, but I will go to my grave as a fan of the little mean green Detroit machine.
That's awesome 👍
I’m in the plant right now! Yes DETROIT DIESEL!!! Thank you for letting us build your engine. Our customers mean the world to us.
Hell ya thats awesome which plant ? What state
The world headquarters in Redford Michigan. I worked for years in the liner department. I have made literally hundreds of thousands of series 60 liners. And yes, thousands of 2 cycle 53, 71, 92 and 149’s. Then in 07, I went over to the new cell and began manufacturing the DD13 and DD15 liners. Now I work in turbos! I love it here. It’s the best place ever!
We had a reman facility in my home town in Kansas, never worked there but my mom did.
Ron, thanks for building and supplying us loyal fanatics with the little mean Green Detroit machine. #12.7forlife
hi. i had a cummins engine, in one of my trucks. Freightliner COE. and it was flawless. This was the N engine, older style, 70s with jake brake. 350 cummins.
My Pre EGR 14L 575 HK is the best engine ever built. Over 2 million miles. Rebuilt and tuned to 600hp at 1.6 million. It works circles around the new trucks and never lets me down.
That's awesome I want to find a pre egr 14.0 liter 👍
Lucky and rare pre egr 14 liter
That’s what I’m looking for.. ❤️❤️
5 mpg sucks
What engines come with the series 60 pre EGR?
I used to work at a Detroit shop and loved these motors. One suggestion to people that have them is to keep up the cooling system maintenance as they love to cavitate (cause little pin holes) in the liners that end up making you rebuild the motor before it really needs it. Basically Detroit says to measure the coolant additive that prevents cavitation every oil change, but no one ever does that. Even moving to the long life coolant that says the additive is good for 600000 miles starts cavitating after two years. I suggest using long life coolant and replacing it every year for piece of mind.
Good to know ya I usually had a radiator or hose problem that caused a coolant leak needing to replace all coolant about every year to year and a half
Who makes the best coolant and additives to prevent cavitation?
@@thisismagacountry1318 I'd just stick with the latest Detroit Diesel branded long life coolant. It's gone through some revisions and honestly Detroit Diesel doesn't make it and could be rebranded anything else, but it's the best of the best I'm sure. It's just the design of the Series 60 that cavitates so badly.
Detroit tech here. Old green coolant is what caused the cavitation, Detroit has moved away from that for years. Get the red pre mixed Detroit brand and ya will never have a problem. If you do switch from green to red then you will have to flush of course. Finding parts for these is getting difficult so take care of em.
Yep is the number one engine ever built I owned 3 series 60 !!!!
Yep I have one left im debating whether to just keep it or sell it but because its so Damm good having second thoughts 🤔
12.7 or 14l?
@@901thuggin I have 2 12.7 and 1 14L and if you take care of them they take care of you I like both!!!
I've been at Detroit Diesel 24 years. Hired in on 12/16/24 2 cycle line. Meaning #of pistons. 12's were model 71. Single block. 16' were two 8's bolted together. The 24 was a beast. Two twelve cylinders bolted together. With two 12 cranks bolted together. Look up DDC engine with multiple blowers. Unreal. Been on the 60 line. Now it's the DD15, 16 AND 13. Great video. Any questions about DDC I'll try to answer them. Love
My 97 Freightliner Detroit 12.7L turned up to 500hp, had 1.4M miles when sold, averaging 6.3mpg.
Thats really good for having that many miles on it 👍
I’m gonna run mine until 1.3million miles and gonna do an overhaul!!!
@@MakeMoneyTrucking not only that but the aerodynamics to, say a cascadia with like a 12.7 maybe in ur 7s
@@0_l621 ya also light weight 😀
@@MakeMoneyTrucking yup and maybe in ur 8s to. my uncle told me he got 8mpg in his 450isx cascadia but he was unloaded, and like 6.6 loaded. and detroits are known to be efficient so yea probably in ur 8s
I build these motors everyday it takes about 3 hours to tear one down in a in frame and about 3to4 hours to put it back together if you got all the parts. We use PAI rebuild kits.
Wow thats fast and good to know 👍
How much are the PAI rebuild kits roughly??
Around 4000 liners and pistons and gaskets still have to get your head reworked
@@joseywales7270 thats cheap I found rebuilt 14 heads for around 2500 or 3000
Ya not bad
People bitching about EGRs on the 14L. Have you guys dealt with DPF, SCR systems? EGRs should not even be an issue compare to all the new emission crap. You can rebuild a 60 series for the price of a DPF on a new truck.
EGR is still something to bitch about. Something to be removed.
@John Morgan if I keep my oil changed my cummins won't even do a regen...when I go over...yes it will let me know to do a regen or if I dont it will do one on its own !
@@felixwankel3989 only if you know what you're doing, otherwise, you'll cut it's lifespan considerably.
Killing the egr in my 14L made a big difference in fuel economy went up slightly from 6.2-6.4 to between 6.5-6.8 hauling 45000-49000 pound loads and climbing the same hills I struggled at 45mph now doing 60-65. WINNING ALL AROUND
A simple sensor chip turns off the egr no more problems 👍. I loved the 07 I had ran so good
I remember when they first came out. First 4 stroke Detroit. Loved it.
That's awewome
Pretty sure that turd 8.2L " Fuel pincher " was Detroit's first 4 stroke diesel engine.
It is my favorite I'm a diesel mechanic
Always good to hear 👍
Whats your favorite part about it im curious ??
Same here
@@MakeMoneyTrucking fixing these piece of crap ,poor excuse for engine called detroit...i guess....
@@marceloevera2009 I can't speak for others but they have been pretty good for me and made me alot of money! As well as a few guys I know so I don't know that piece of crap made me a lot of money and continues to this day. I'll take the piece of crap lol 💰😀🤑
I owned a egr 12.7 when it hit 1 million miles I had the trip report printed out, it never had one before that. Lifetime fuel avg 5.3 mpg with 55% idle. And I started driving it at 730,000 miles. And i ran that truck west back to midwest all the time, at the speed limit of whatever state i was in. Bucking wind in Wyoming at 75mph loaded.
Thats awesome I would be happy about that. I hate that Wyoming wind its rough on a truck
As a freight liner tech, this video is spot on. Good information here
Cat 3406 at same time had power, But parts cost 3 times others. It still makes me think all these years later after Detroit building 2 stroke diesels end with the 92 series and make a 4 stroke version due to emissions the series 60. The first try at a 4 stroke diesel and they nailed it. The series 60 was a great engine. They put detroit back on track.
Those engineers were like wow it worked and it worked well !! I'm sure they were shocked no major issues lol
After 40 yrs driving all kinds here in Australia I have to agree. Reliable, fuel efficient and you can drive the wheels of em all day. Never hurt em .
Good to hear 👍
2001 sterling 550k's im looking at buying any thoughts? Price?
@@timcarr4155 I don't know enough about Sterling trucks
The small block chevy of the Diesel truck world . Spot on info for sure driven many 12.7 and was very impressed with the 14 liter big power and massive torque with little rubber balls coming off the tires when left in high gear going up steep grades ! Don't forget about keeping an eye on the bull gear for wear .
I agree
I made it to 1.5 I love this engine. I replaced little things here and there, but man, I’m sold!
thats awesome paid for itself im sure
02 freightliner fld. 60 series. Best running most reliable truck. Little rough around the edges. Im 80, 000 50 % of the time hauling trash and its amazing what this motor does (stock). Up and down the hills in Pa day in day out! Passing hopped up petes and kenworths.
I love passing hopped up petes and kws lol 😆
Never even thought about a Detroit. Thanks for the information.
👍
It’s now about winning a race uphill. I think the name of the game is keeping about as much money 💰 in your pocket as possible, it all equates to dollars at the end of the day, and The Detroit 60 series is an efficient engine. By the way a 14 L 60 series with a nice tune is no slouch.
I agree
12.7 from Jamaica to the world
👍
They are by far the best. I had three of them in the oilfields of New Mexico hauling water. Tons of power excellent fuel economy very reliable
And cheap parts that are available everywhere
Is that the water siphoned off the tops of oil storage tanks or the fracking water that gets injected?
I did that for awhile siphoning water off oil storage tanks near Charlotte, TX and the surrounding area.
What's the pay around Midland or has it all dried up with Biden's shutdown?
I miss the MCI cruiser buses NJT used to have with the 12.7 liter Detroit motor. Nothing beats the growl from a Detroit.
I just had an issue with my 14L 60 Series and I thought it was an injector but it was the rocker arm like yours was. I drove it hard for NINE MONTHS with a completely broken rocker arm and it never quit! (I kept driving it because all the mechanics kept misdiagnosing it for injector failure but that never fixed it. It was the rocker arm.)
Hell ya they are almost bullet proof my rocker arm actually broke the injector so I replaced it but not for a couple weeks 😄
Definitely true. My 2002 Columbia 12.7 60 has 1,655,000 miles currently. The most major work ever done around the engine was a leaking head gasket that leaked coolant outside of engine and the bullgear had to be replaced once after we found a small piece of gear tooth on the oil plug. That's it. Never been overhauled, haven't replaced a single fuel injector in over 10 years that I have personally been driving it. It doesn't consume oil between oil changes at around 10k-12k miles and an all year round fuel milage average is 7 mpgs, over 7.5 in summer and about 6.2-6.5 in the winter. I thank God that I've been blessed with having this truck because I've really had great success making money with this truck because it's been so reliable and inexpensive to maintain. This truck works for me and makes me money and not the other way around as a lot of others unfortunately have had to. It also helped this truck that it came with a 10spd auto shift with clutch pedal and steer axle air ride suspension, it kept the whole plastic columbia cab in one piece. Elhamdulillah.
That's Fantastic and I agree my truck Detroit 60s make me money lol
So the steer axle air ride helps smoothen the ride? No problem with it?
@@vroor32 yes definitely, in the 20 years of it's working life the air bags were replaced once and the leaf spring once also and no other issue with it
@@ademirdizdarevic6434 👍🏼...I saw a Columbia in a junkyard with that system and thought of grabbing it. Or do u think I should go brand new? I have a 1999 century
@@vroor32 if it isn't damaged it should be fine, the axle has to go along with it, it doesn't fit on the standard axle.
Yes they are great. I put 1500K or 1.5 million on one and it was still running great but it didn't pull any longer and a lot of blow-by from the tube. Only remember one injector failure during those years.
Very reliable but I still enjoy hearing the two strokes I started with in 1980
Thats a good long life I know of many at 1.3 million still hauling 😀
I think it is. There's 2 of them on the Northwestern. Its weakness is in the fuel delivery system. The only serious issues I ever had with this motor is in , blown turbo, injector, and cracked liner. But thousands of miles apart, and different trucks.
My pap was a truck driver and had a 9200i international Eagle 2002 and it has a 12.7 60 series it lasted him until he retired last year from 2002 - 2020 and still working since it’s his truck and it has over 3,700,000 miles and only 1 over haul
DANG thats crazy
I have a 1993 eagle with 12.7...We still trucking!
@@davehughesfarm7983 yeah it’s my truck now but I made it run with only having to replace the battery’s and some faulty ground wires
Back in 2005-06, I had the great pleasure of driving a 2001 International 9400 Eagle, 60" Pro Sleeper, with a Series 60, 13-speed. It had 270,000 on the odometer when I got it and it was a fuel sipping powerhouse!!! I ran mostly east coast and stayed east of the Mississippi and averaged 6.5mpg, hauling around 77,000 gross. I'll take a 60 anytime! Drove it for a year and only replaced 1 fuel filter. It never gave me a problem and never left me stranded.
I agree, l drove one of those as a company driver, that truck was 15 years old and still was sending new Volvo to the grave. I hope l can find one to buy it as my second truck.
Just got my first truck it's an 06 columbia with the 14.0 love it
Nice 👍
I've driven probably 10,60 series through the years and hands down they're the smoothest running engine I ever drove absolutely reliable
Thanks, that's encouraging.
I've heard good things about Cummins reliability, but the Detroit 60 series is always near the top of favorite engine lists.
Will look for an 06 or 07 pre-Def motor.
Any suggestions which place has the best deals on those?
Go to the trk auctions with a mechnic,up here in wa.state we have richie brothers
I was driving a glider for SCHNEIDER with a Detroit. It started knocking so I took it in for the weekend and they said it was nothing wrong with it. I know motors are not supposed to knock but I wasn’t a mechanic and fresh out of school. I drove the truck with that knock for months and never broke down during my first year as a driver before leaving.
I have a buddy who has built 12.7 to handle 1000hp, he runs it at 950 and he still gets 7mpg in a westernstar 4900. When he detuned it for 600 he got 9mpg loaded. And it sits happy at 1900rpm at 98 mph
Awesome
I definitely agree series 60 is one of the best engine pre emissions
I bought a 14l and delete the egr and electronic turbo. Is been the best money ever invest
👍👍👍 yes !!
I just watched a video by HT where he was saying you got to get your bull gear inspected on these motors because if the bearing on it goes out, it will destroy the motor
Good to know 👍
Many years ago I drove from la to Texas with a broken piston pin as long as I didn’t use engine bracke I did good I had to keep putting oil 10 gallon but it come home with a broken piston can’t get any better than that I was amazed by that ,,, s 60 Detroit my engine of choy👍👍👍👍
Pretty amazing just kept on going lol 😆
I have a pre egr. Currently just over 3million km(180k miles). 575hp, just over 5mpg gross around 93k lbs. Been a great engine, reliable, still doing interstate. A few issues, but never left me stranded on the road side
Nice 👍
I just purchased a 98 century class with a 60 series. It just had it’s 3rd In frame. 3.8 million miles on her. Hope I get another mill outta her.
@@halltransitllc4545 thats great truck has paid for itself many times over !!
I back you on that 1000% brother, nothing to me like my 60 series from the 11.1 to the 14L I've owned them n love them.
Mine has served me well 👍
We ran 14l In our tugboats 95 percent load rate 1850 rpms burned about 20gallons per hour
i totally agree with you sir i also di think especially for South African use the Detroit Diesel is by very far the very best
Honestly not a trucker, don't ever really plan to be but operate Light Mediums at work. But recently developed a crush on the Argosy and like that many of them came with 12.7 60s
It's a good engine for sure !! I love the 14 liter detriot 60 😀
I stand by the 60 series for many reasons and I love how you can beef me up! Their parts are Reliable!!!!! They run a long time because of their parts!!! I love my 60 series!!! We had a Volvo with a 12.7 and it had 1.5 million on it and it ran good, a bit of blow by and some shit but it still ran well
Parts are reliable and cheap
And you can get them just about everywhere even Amazon and eBay
@@Darth-Nihilus1 sure can 👍
Girlfriends dad has a 60 series in his lobster boat. Tons of power, good fuel economy and stays real cool. Pretty rugged motor. He said he’d take another one over any other motor for his boat
I have heard alot of boats and water craft use them didn't realize they where so popular in boats ect..🤣
One of my favorite Detroit series 60.
I agree 👍
Just bought my first detroit 💪
Congrats 👍
I've owned many 60 series and I agree that it's likely the best all around engine. excellent life to overhaul,good MPG and cheap to repair/inframe. I've also owned a few big HP/Modified Cats and while they give good MPG ,they are EXPENSIVE to inframe but will kill a 60 in a pull. always wanted to modify a 14 liter w/out EGR to just see.. got a buddy with a 1000 whp 14 liter that gives my Cat a run..hard to argue the economics of a 60 though.. THANKS FOR THE VID !
Thank you for watching and commenting
I think a build series might be coming soon on my 14.0 detriot. I had a 750hp Australian tune for a little while but turbo couldn't handle it. It was nasty pulled hard
@@MakeMoneyTrucking I know an excellent 60 Series tuner if you need a custom file written.. he drag races 14.0's
Probably cracks the heads often .
@@445xone send info
@@445xone send info please my 14l is currently egr deleted removed freshly overhauled with the 12.7l turbo tuned and it’s a rap ape
Detroit gang 💪🏾
👍👊
oil dripping gang.... right lane with 4ways on gang
@@marceloevera2009 still runs its a diesel engine most leak oil 😆
@@MakeMoneyTrucking i'd rather have the leak on the hammer lane lol....detroits are lazy dogs
Great Presentation
Thanks 👍
Dude you're soooo right. The company I worked for 13 yrs. FleetPride truck parts in North Haven CT leased a day cab from Penske. I drove that 14L 387 miles a day, M-F for 4 years. The ONLY thing that failed that put me on the side of the road was the EGR once. I idled TF outta that monster. Started it at 3:30am and turned it off at 2pm. I could go 3 fulls days without fueling with duel 110 tanks.
Alot of companies will tell you they regret selling there old 60 series for newer motors.
@@MakeMoneyTrucking totally understandable. I'm trying to buy a glider right now and the seller has poor communication! He's a "have to call him" in order to get a response from him. My anxiety is on rage right now 😠😠! I want that truck.
@@willmann30 keep trying bro don't give up on it !! 💪👍 I feel your frustration for sure..
@@MakeMoneyTrucking just an update I got the Columbia he's sending the title next day air. I'll have it tomorrow 🎊🎉🎊🎆🎇
Every truck with a 60 series I've ever driven has never broke down other than a minor oil leak a much better engine than the dd15 other than fuel economy
Thats good 👍
Yes... Truck drivers with RUclips channels complain about the constant gasket failures, causing dedicated oil leaks. Costing a lot of money.
@@yaphett1 im not sure why or how the many detriot 60 series I have had haven't had that bad of problems. But having experience every truck has problems
@@yaphett1 detriots have always been know to leak just like every other diesel leaks
I love the Detroit, n14, 6nz. Whichever i own i will make that my no 1 engine...now it is the n14.
They are all pretty good engines 👍
im having a 2nd inframe done on my 12.7 now , broke a piston after 800k on my previous inframe
Good advice!!
Thanks
Oh man.. currently I own 07 Freightliner Classic with Detroit series 60 14 ltr.. it has got 1,775,000 kms on it.. and believe me Sir.. still so strong and reliable.. never gave me hard time.. just replaced the vPOD.. and got the turbo rebuilt just because of some foolish wajax mechanics, which never required a rebuild tho.. and got the motor tuned up 60,000 kms ago.. cams got out really clean, injectors at good pressure, jakes all good..I just love the motor and My Truck.
Good to hear
The 07 is the last year before DEF became a thing, right?
That's what I'm looking for in a used Volvo 13 speed.
@@thisismagacountry1318 strong and reliable.. haven't seen any Volvos with Detroit though
@@thisismagacountry1318 DEF came in 2013. DPF came in 2008 and EGR in 2003.
I have to leave a comment on this since I have a Detroit 12.7 in a 96 t600. I had my engine rebuilt 8 months after I started working my truck I had alot of blowby and my oil pressure was dropping was loosing alittle more oil than I'd like to too. The rebuilt kit I got and all of the parts I got came to about 7k and some change on parts and the guy charged me 4500 to rebuild it and thats taking the motor out and painting it that pretty Detroit blue or green whatever it is lol but thats what I wanted him to do he could have done it inframe without painting it for 3500 note I didn't replace the injectors bc they seemed to be good and rt now I have 168280 miles on the rebuild and still no problem with the injectors but I do feel a miss sometimes like an injector or 2 may be starting to act up but nothing serious. I'm in the Richmond Va area the mechanic is trustworthy and experienced with Detroits my cousin referred him to me and I don't regret it. But anyway great motor for me when I do my ifta sometimes I get 6.7 or 6.5 or I've seen 5. something mpg consistent and I'm a hammer down driver loaded or empty. 1 thing this guy forgot to mention is that these motors seem to like to seep oil from certain places! You'll look at the motor and see oil spots around the oil pan or oil dip stick base or the rear of the motor from where the head and the block meets but when you check the oil the level is always good but it still leaks from places its weird but the old folks say that means it got oil in it thats just what they do lol and oh yea this too you will always have some blowby they do that and its normal to have alittle but when U start seeing it everywhere and when U stop at lights U see it coming up the side of the door windows thats the signs of time for a overhual along with oil pressure being low and loosing oil! Hope this helps someone!!
Ya thats cheap great deal
Mine is starting to seap oil out the front cover and around the head so soon I'm going to do a rebuild. I had a 2007 14 that drank about a gallon of oil every month but ran like a champ.
Can u send me the info of your detroit mechanic at Richmond plz
I bought new a '97 Freightliner FLD120 with a 430/470hp 12.7 Detriot. Ran it for 14 years. 2.8 million km. An injector went out at 10 years, so I did an inframe rebuild just incase. Truck was only towed once, due to the hot lead to the ecu corroding at the battery. Still had the untouched turbo on it when I sold it.
wow the turbo lasted that long ? !!
@@MakeMoneyTrucking Yes. There was noting on it to break. No waste-gate, no VGT.
@@tlr-nut7275 very true
Nice advise bro. Thanks 👍
No problem 👍
Here, is some info: F O R EVERY ONE
DETROIT DIESEL SERIES 60: DIFFERENCES BETWEEN 12.7L AND 14L
Heavy Duty Detroit Diesel 60 Series | Highway & Heavy Parts
If you've heard of Detroit Diesel, odds are you've heard of their Series 60 line of engines. It includes three different enginesan 11.1L, a 12.7L, and a 14L. The 11.1L and 12.7 L were introduced at the same time, but the 12.7 long outlasted the smaller version. It was in production until 2007, when it was completely replaced by the 14L, which came onto the scene in 2001. According to some, the 12.7L is the most popular version of the Series 60, but the 14L is very popular as well.
The Series 60 engines were revolutionary when they were introduced because of their electronic control system, which was the first to appear in on-highway engine applications. It's overhead camshaft design was also unique at the time, giving the Series 60 engines a special position in the market.
These engines, particularly the smaller ones, were favored by buses, as well as numerous other applications. While not especially popular for busses likes its smaller siblings, the 14L became the favored engine of Freightliner, helped by a joint venture between the two companies.
Despite being part of the same engine series, multiple differences exist between the versions, particularly between the 12.7L and 14L. We go through some of those below:
DIFFERENCES BETWEEN 12.7L AND 14L
SIZE
One of the obvious differences between the engine versions is their size. For obvious reasons, the 14L is slightly larger than the other two. This increase in size to many of its components led to performance increases as well. The cylinder bore and stroke both increased on the 14L, from 5.12 in and 6.30 in on the 12.7 to 5.24 in and 6.62 in on the 14L.
DISPLACEMENT
Another obvious one, but as you can tell by the names, the engine displacement (the amount of air your pistons can pull in, combined) changed significantly between the two versions. It's often measure in liters, and this number directly relates to the power output of your engine, with a higher displacement often meaning more power. The 14L has a bit more power than the 12.7L, but it also tends to use more fuel.
HORSEPOWER AND TORQUE
The 12.7L only has a horsepower capacity of 380-455 at 1,800 RPM, while the 14L is a bit higher at 425-515 at the same RPM. Similarly, the rated torque on the 14L increased, coming in at 1,550-1650 lb-ft. at 1,200 RPM, up from 1,350-1,550 lb-ft on the 12.7L. This was thanks in large part to the larger crankshaft installed in the 14L.
DDEC
The Detroit Diesel Electronic Control system (DDEC) is the revolutionary electronic controls found in the Series 60 engines. These have gone through multiple versions, and different ones can be found on the both the 12.7L and 14L. The 12.7L went through the various phases of the DDEC, with the older engines having either the DDEC I, II, or III. DDEC IV was introduced in 1999 and was a part of all new Series 60 engines. This version of the DDEC was released before the 14L, and included changes to the cylinder kit as well. In 2003, an updated version of DDEC IV was released. The 14L also benefits from later versions of the systems, post-discontinuation of the 12.7L, which allows for greater control of fuel injection.
So which engine is better? That all depends on who you ask. They both have their advantages, depending on what you're looking for in an engine. Some argue that the older engines were made better, while others enjoy the control and efficiency granted by the newer models. Whichever way you go, the Series 60 line of engines has long proved its reliability and strength.
Need parts for your Series 60 engine? HHP has a great selection of parts for both the 12.7L and 14L (and other Detroit engines!). Let our techs help you find what you need! Give us a call at 844-304-7688, or request a quote online.
Good information thanks 👍
Can the 12.7 also make 500hp?
@@albaniansk8er yes
That phone number is no good.
pre egr 60s 14l are a great engine, i never broken down, they are eazy to work on, good on fuel. there clearances are alot looser that cats hence the blow by so you do have to change oil more regulary as the breaks it down quicker. not as much power as cat/cummins but with a manual if you keep the revs high they still pull good great. down low revs they struggle
Finally someone speaks the truth!
Power does matter to me otherwise why be an owner operator...? I never understood guys that bought fleet trucks with their underpowered engines and their 10-speed transmissions: may as well just stay being a company driver and receive all the benefits like healthcare and vacation.
But I think it's true that you can Rev the Detroit 60s series engines higher and maintain it there longer than you can with my Cummins N14. I try not to stay above 1700 for any length of time. With a 13-speed transmission, this is easier to do.
If you want to know an engine that has great low+RPM torque, try a Mercedes MBE 4000. I hate to admit it but I think below 1300 it had more grunt than my N14: but my Cummins blew it away at mid-range and high range RPMs especially merging on the highway acceleration under load.
@@michaeldunagan8268 MBE4000 is a 12.7 Detroit with a Benz designed head and manifolds, basically. Came about after Daimler Benz bought Detroit. Fleet truck engine.
Thanks for the info. 👍🇺🇸
No problem 😀👍
I got 12.7 two million plus with no overhaul still running great
That's alot for no overhaul usually I have seen 1.3 to 1.4 million without overhaul
I drove a 2006 Freightliner tandem that had a Detroit series 60 for the better part of a year. Had an 18 speed behind it. Certainly wasn't the most screamin' engine in the fleet, but you couldn't stop it with an atom bomb. It was a coal truck, and I typically hauled 30 - 35 ton in the bed of the truck every day.
Nice 👍
Series 60 Legacy engine is the best for sure. Covered many many miles in a 12.7 doing heavy haulage and dam if that engine couldn't put a smile on my face every time you were in the shit and needed that piece of iron to come through. Spannered many of them and the newer dd 15 series also.
Same here my 60 series have got me out of alot 💪
Do you think the 14 liter 60 series is worth getting over the 12.7?
@@thisismagacountry1318 I am a big advocate for larger engine doing less work equates to lower fuel consumption figures and have seen it a lot over the years so you cant go wrong with the larger displacement version. Same architecture design. Either is a good choice.
I have a 14L Detroit and a C - 15 Acert Cat. BOTH ARE GREAT MOTORS. YES CAT IS MORE EXPENSIVE BUT YOU WILL MAKE EVERY REPAIR BACK AND THEN SOME.
My dad has a 14L in a 1999 K104 Kenworth. (I live in Australia) pulling 80 ton in 36m road trains and it gets 1.3L per km and it out preformed cats cummins by getting up to cruse speed and fuel economy. And it’s a 2 stroke the jakes sound the best of all motors hands down
Here in Jamaica most 12.7 and 14 litres come here with over 700,000 miles an run like a beast. Best ever 👍
I have a love for these engines, my first truck I ever drove had a 12.7 Detroit. Love these engines. I drove for a small company, at the time all the boss man could afford was trucks with plus 1 million mile trucks; but man where those trucks reliable. Those 1 million mile trucks still had plenty of power and life left.
The first truck I was assigned to in the oilfield was a 12.7 detriot ! Maybe that's where my love started lol 😆
For me if I were to buy a truck it will only have one of three motors.
Detroit Series 60(12.7 or 14.0)
Cummins N14 Celect
Cat 3406B, 3406E, C-15(mbn or 6nz) prefix.
Cats are very expensive to maintain, but when kept are very reliable. N14 is one of the most driver friendly engines to work on. You can literally due your own injector cut out without a computer, also possible to rebuild one of the side of the road(three heads opposed to one).
Detroit is the cheapest to maintain, if you don’t it’s still the only engine I’ve seen with shit loads of blow by continue to run strong. Rebuilding series 60 is 2nd cheapest to N14 or Big Cam.
They are all good 👍
All true!!
he's defenetly not lieing..I got a 2009 Columbia 14 litre..bought in 2012 with 390,000 now today 2022 I have 1,235,357& hv not put but one injector in...number 6 injector and just replace the big holset turbo last week after putting on 800,000 miles on the the truck personally myself.....now head gasket leaking just a little now front right corner ..just seeping out oil..not a major leak... totally bulletproof engine.
My favorite engine the 14.0 I had the same injector go out as well but all other where good. They do leak or seep oil but still will run strong just add a little oil and keep going
@@MakeMoneyTrucking lol..wow.. you're exactly right..mines seep some oil..I have a rear main seal leak but same clutch since I had truck..clutch not bad just dripping some from rear main..while I'm at it gonna have clutch change since already at it and never been changed before but it's not slipping..I think they're bulletproof engines..head gasket seeps just a lil bit I'm gonna run it until the wheels fall off..I don't believe in rebuilding a engine that have 50 psi at 1450 rpm at 65 mph gng dtr & 30/35 psi idling...I'm gonna run it forever
I just bought a beautiful 2009 Columbia with the 60 in it. The engine was rebuilt 6 months ago and has only 65,000 miles on it. New turbo, basically everything new. The guy also also had the whole suspension done. I paid $40k for it. Hoping to make some serious cash before any setbacks.
I will agree with you Amen
👍
I'm at almost 1.5 and the only thing I changed was the rod bearing! For me and my business that's what we look for specially with a 13 speed !
Same here just a 10 or 18 don't like 13 speeds too much
@heavyduty187 good to know
1.5 million means your going to need pistons, and liners soon.
Daniel Santos 12.7? Or 14
I've always said, A cat will win the race up the hill, but a Detroit 60 will always win the race to the bank. I still have 5 in a fleet of 9.
I did Mains and rods bearings twice and I have 1.8 million miles on mine
Nice 👍
Rods and mains and regular service they last alot longer than anything else out there
I prefer the Detroit 71 series 2 stroke
The 12v71 is a great truck engine no emissions crap, easy to work on and bulletproof. I had one throw a rod through the side of the block looped the injector and plugged the hole with rags and ran it for a week like that before I fixed it ( welded a patch on block and changed the cylinder kit) It’s still running today 2 in frames later
Wow thats crazy and true definition of never quiting
What this guy says all true. I’m o/o for 20+ years with same 60 serious. 1st overhaul at 1.340000 and still rolling as day one. I got Toronto to Laredo run I’m still getting 7 / 7.5 mi a gallon. Hauling coil and auto parts.
That's awesome
Which company you're working looking for work
@@syedalam3513 I haul hazmat tanker
I have a 1999 peterbilt379 with a cat 3406E just a little over 1.3 million miles on it never been overhauled i pull a fertilizer tanker and i get between 6 and 6.3 mpg
That would be my 2nd choice of motor
in a marine application like commercial fishing they've been amazing from the guys I know especially if they've been detuned
Good to hear
Thanks man nice video 12.7 all the way but it’s a dying breed parts are getting harder to get
Ya it's a little difficult but it also doesn't brake as often to need parts either lol 😄
You can still get rebuild kits easy. The kit from Detroit is more expensive then the others.
I have a 2008 14 liter 60 series and a 6NZ CAT. I honestly don't know which I like better yet. If I can somehow get more torque out of the Detroit it'll be the Detroit. The bottom line is money. So far the Detroit is winning at this point, but I just got it and only put about 20000 miles on it. 260000 on the CAT. Been doing this with my own equipment for 2 years going on 3.
I agree more torque would be nice
But yep can't beat the price and money savings of a detriot 60 👍
Very easy to get parts for Cats. Much support from cat. I m a cat man and get great fuel mileage from them. I could never get a troit to pull for me but i will agree they are a decent engine and for an owner operator that is just starting is a great option. But as we know if you buy a bad one in any color none of them are really cheap!
That's true I guess I was mislead on the cat parts availability I was told they can be hard to get and very expensive..??
@@MakeMoneyTrucking all parts are expensive my friend. Most companies that make engines love the big carriers. They are slowly chocking the small carrier down. Kills my soul because the small guys made this industry. They couldn't stand it that we ran and was proud of the engine that best suited us. Yes I love cats. But I will never shrug my shoulder at any engine that can pull 80000 plus up a 7 degree hill. They are marvelous things.
@@MakeMoneyTrucking and just so yall know if I was offered ANY 2021 truck and my only option was a 50 series Detroit 4 banger I would be driving a 50 series
Which CAT do you own that is giving you great fuel mileage?
@@DubRighteous now I have a C15 ACERT 550 But I have pulled that mileage from Bs Cs ad Es.
We run em in our tug boats, one boat has over a million hours on one of them and about 900,000 on the other
I hear they are popular in marine water applications 👍
To have 1 Million hours it would have been running non stop 24/7/365 for 114 years. Lol
@@samward8727 🤣🤣🤣
I'm agree Bro!!
👍
I have a 14 liter 60 2008 with 1.3 million miles and still going strong.
Same exact motor I have awesome 👌
I swear by the series 60 I drove one for 11yrs hauling trash to a landfill three time a day that's one the harshest environments on a truck I had three brand new Freightliner Columbia's the company I worked for hardly did pm's on time they would let their trucks go 40000 miles sometimes before they would get serviced those trucks would still run the only problems I've ever had was a head gasket and compresser no mechanical problems ever
Thats unreal I bet they hated the newer motors
It really depends on what you are doing over the road it is a good motor for fuel mileage but logging cat will out do a Detroit that gets 6mpg vs cat which will get 5.5 mpg
It all depends yep ..
I agree Detroit is the best way to go your in the right
Agree 👍
Detroit Nation baby 💪🏽💪🏽💪🏽💪🏽All Day!!!
Well now I'm a real trucker, because I work for Swift! My favorite motor is the infamous Maxx Force! It's really heavy on the lower end which helps keep me from flipping my rig!
I cant tell if your joking or not LOL
Them little tires don't hurt either.
LMFAO
I’ve worked on many many trucks and engines over my time but did my main apprenticeship time on series 60 12.7 and 14.0 NON EGR they’re by far the best engine ever made for making money I would say followed by catapillar c12/15. We were getting 1.2-1.5 million out of 14.0 at 550hp 1850ftlbs they all started on double road trains then went onto b-double at about 600,000. I now work for a large fleet company that is cummins through and through we can’t even get to 500,000k now before the first rebuild under warranty or a turbo failure and before that it was EGR coolers and VGT turbo issues. The only thing cummins has going for it here is you can get bits for them from just about everywhere and the service after hours and even in hours is the best nation wide other then that if there was a better option it would be taken but Kenworth and cummins have the market well sewn up here
I agree 👍
I was looking to buy a t800 or w900 but I saw an un real amount of Cummins with only 300k to 500k with a note saying they have been rebuilt. That scared me away from Cummins a 300k to 500k motor should not need rebuilt
@@MakeMoneyTrucking yes your right this is why I don’t understand why people aren’t holding these companies responsible. I went from 1 million kilometres + out of series 60, c15 but we never had any such luck out of cummins at the same HP I would say a pretty standard HP in Australia would be 550/1850ftlbs and all the others got the kilometres but cummins kept failing and now we have this new X15 still needs to go back for oil consumption rebuilds WTF is that what you can’t make a cylinder liner round? It rings that last, or what?! And all this injecting of fuel to clean up the emissions I feels that’s just doing more damage then good, oil consumption, oil leaks, turbo failures, ect ect but we stick with it why? I don’t really care what people think but I’d say the best truck motor getting around in Australia at the moment would be the D13 VOLVO we have them with up to 1.4 million and still original and sure you have the manifolds go on them but that’s about the only issues we have engine wise. Anyway keep it real man!! Good luck with the trucks
@@rayw9067 thanks appreciate it. I dont have any experience with the d13 Volvo.
@@MakeMoneyTrucking on the Volvo the d12 are the best motors ever very identical to the 12.7 60 series
The sound of a 60 Series hauling fully loaded up hill is a beautiful sound
Yes it is
@@MakeMoneyTrucking it's gotta be the 14 liter tho
@Scott Ruch definitely that's my favorite engine
You mean the sound of you jumping out and pushing?
Thanks fella
D serie 60 14.0 L and 515 HP do you want more power than that? For me that’s a beast of engine.
Yes, I want more power, I can afford it, my gliders are built to 650hp, average between 7.2-7.6 mpg. Why crawl up a hill like a snail with mediocre fuel mileage, when you can run up it like a cheetah and get really good fuel mileage. Power doesn't equal bad fuel efficiency, you'll burn more fuel huffing and puffing up the fancy gap than I will, climbing in a higher gear, less rpm.
I agree, I tell my customers these things are almost bulletproof. 1,000,000 miles easy
Just keep adding oil lol 😆
What other engine would you guys say would be par with the Detroit ?
@@adrianvillegas3092 n14 Cummins or 3406e cat but they are alot more expensive to maintain or repair or replace
12.7 is what I have and luv it!
That's good reliable and cheap fuel efficient 👍
@@MakeMoneyTrucking / they certainly are
Agree!
HT logistics3434 would approve this message
👍
Also the best coach engine.
Im finding out these motors are used in so many different things I had no clue
The turbocharged howl from the 12.7L can be heard all the way in the back of the coach, the 14L not so much. Lots of acceleration and torque from both. Many Prevost coaches go well past 3 million miles with their Detroit S60 engines, after going through 2 overhauls.
@@texasabbott i didn't know they drive them for 3 million thats alot.
@@MakeMoneyTrucking they even made a marine application. I agree. I drive an 09 Columbia with a 99 12.7 turned to 550hp. She loves to run.
@@texasabbott WOW...What an awesome rap....good to know dude..!
The Detroit diesel engines are awesome 👍👍👍👍
👍
They are a good motor, the new Detroits are good too DD13 and DD15 are not bad.
I have a DD15 565hp in my current truck its been good 👍