How did you determine the second valve was actually bad without applying vacuum to the brass fitting? I ordered a new control valve, and as your video showed, I couldn't blow through either end. It acted the same as the 'cheap' ebay one you show in the video. When I apply suction to the brass fitting, I can blow through. Seemingly, these need the vacuum to operate. I don't think it's bad, do you?
On the one that works, how hard are you blowing to try and test that air is flowing out correctly? I pulled mine and had to blow extremely hard to get any air to flow out. It seems too restrictive to me, but I don't know how hard the pump is pushing air out. Would a clogged valve prevent the SAS from operating at all? I am trying to figure out why my SAS is not operating during a cold start to set the monitor for the hat system. I've already tested the pump itself by connecting to a 12v source directly and it works. Thanks.
Keep in mind, this bench test is not an official way to test it. On the one that was working, I had to blow pretty hard to overcome the lack of a vacuum. My situation: The SAP and SAS did not work. I would get a fault code. I bench tested the SAP and it worked great. Then I messed with the valve and couldn't get it to blow through from either side. So I decided to get a replacement since it was pretty cheap at the time. Replacement came and it acted the same way. I thought that the valve needed a vacuum to open (and it does) but when I put everything back together, the SAP still did not work. I kept troubleshooting other parts of the system but couldn't get it to work. So I thought I would chance the valve and bought another one... The 3rd one I could blow through one end (SAP side) but couldn't reverse it (exhaust side). All I did was replace the valve and the second I started the car, the SAP kicked in and everything worked as it should have. This was almost 2 years ago... I am running the same valve you see in the video and drive this car frequently. (knock on wood) SAS works as it should with no issues since replacing this valve.
@@autoraiders9520 thanks for your reply. I don't seem to be getting 12v power to the SAP at all. With the car on, testing the connector doesn't show any voltage. My assumption is that even with a clogged valve, the pump should at least turn on during a cold start even if for a brief moment, which mine doesn't at all. Did your pump turn on at all before? As the valve itself has no electronics, I don't understand how it could prevent the pump from starting. I'm now thinking that the relay is bad and will try to pull it and test it. Unfortunately I am not getting any codes that any part of the SAS system is failing so I don't have much else to go on.
@@MrTeamriab what you're describing is exactly the issue I was having. :) I tested the SAP plug and didn't see any power. Had the same exact thought that the valve is mechanical so shouldn't matter. I went as far as testing the old relay and then replacing it. Even after replacing the relay, it would look like I am still not getting power at SAP plug I don't know for certain, perhaps the pump needs a vacuum (which is caused by the valve opening) and if not shuts it off immediately? But the second I installed the 3rd valve, I immediately heard the SAP come on. If you haven't done it yet, apply 12v to SAP and see if it comes on. Very quick and easy test but at least you would know if that's the issue. Then also test your relay, just in case. Either way, your problem seems to be the same issue I had
@@autoraiders9520 thanks. Yes I did pull the SAP and confirmed it works when connected to external 12v power. I also managed to pull the relay and also confirmed that works as well. I also connected leads to the SAP plug and couldn't get a power reading so my jex move was to replace the B2S1 (pre-cat) O2 sensor (I already replaced the B1S1 last week to fix a fault code with that sensor). I'd read in some forums that the pre-cat sensors can be "lazy" over time/age and range it was recommended to replace especially with not knowing the age of mine. But maybe I should just try a new valve since that did the trick for you and it sounds like you had pretty much done everything I have so far. I'll report back if I have a breakthrough! Thanks again for your time and helping out!
fwiw I wanted to report back what my issue was. It turned out my z4m had a custom tune on it that prevented the SAP from running at all. No power. Once the mechanic was able to restore to factory firmware, the SAP started right up!
The SAP (Secondary Air Pump) didn’t work with the 1st and 2nd valve. Inc RO put the third valve In, the SAP kicked on and has been working ever since. A year and a half ago with this valve and the original SAP to the car and they still work great
Hello, thank you for the video. When you blow into the valve, is there resistance, or does the air flow easily? I took mine off, and when I blow into it, the air does not pass freely. The air does pass, but I feel like I have to blow pretty hard. Thanks in advance for your response!
When blowing through it, there is no air going through it. Like many in the comments section said though, a vacuum on the other side does help open the valve. If the air flows easily, that also means you have a valve that's stuck open so the air from the exhaust will back feed into the SAP which with time will cause it to fail. I installed the 3rd one on my E46 over a year ago and have since tracked it, daily driven it, and have had no issues with the SAP kicking on and this injection valve working as it should :)
The explanation is incorrect. Vacuum is needed to open the valve. When you start the engine cold the computer sends power to the pump and the vaccum control valve. This will mean that the Air pushed by the pump will make it to the exhaust manifold. Once the Cat Converter is warm enough the computer will turn of the pump and the vaccum.
Generally carbon build up is heavy enough that it can't be cleaned and reused. The valve can't be taken apart either so a replacement is the viable option :)
i am having the same issue as you (2004 325ci m56 SULEV) the one way check valve on the exhaust isn’t working and the pump isn’t turning on during cold start. causing the SAP readiness monitor to be incomplete. i can replace the valve but what did you do to get the pump to turn on??? i’m getting power to connector and checked relay/fuse. really confused to why the the pump isn’t turning on… what did you do to fix your SAP?? your help or anyone else’s would be much appreciated thank you 👍
I went through all the same steps that you did. 🙂 Mainly making sure that you get 12v going to your SAP right when you start the car. It is also important to make sure that your check valve is working properly (new) otherwise exhaust gasses are making their way back into the SAP which can prevent it from working. Separately, i took off the SAP (easy to do) and I applied 12v directly to the pump and make sure it works. Just be careful, it is violent, loud, and speeds up very fast so I only applied for ~5 seconds 🙂
@@autoraiders9520 so i’m getting power to the connector at cold start. also the pump turns on outside the car with additional power. the kombi valve on the exhaust is old and probably needs replacement. so what i’m asking is what made your pump turn on inside the car normally? was it the new kombi valve or something else
@@e36singh yes, it was the new valve. I did all of the things you just listed and the pulp was still not turning on. I replaced the valve as the last step and it worked.
@@e36singhdid replacing the valve get your pump started on the cold start? I'm in the same boat trying to set the monitor. Pump tested and works, valve is very hard to blow through but air does pass (not sure if that is normal or not). Not sure how to test voltage. Did you disconnect the power connector and connect leads to it during startup to test for power? Any tips would be appreciated! Thank you.
@@autoraiders9520 thank you for the reply! But I meant there is no vacuum port for the small vac line option. Only the SAP coming into the valve and the outlet to the exhaust. No hook up at all for a small vacuum hose. After reading around I believe the later 2004 models were manufactured with a SAP check valve that didn't require vacuum to operate. I guess lol
You’re not applying vacuum to the brass nipple on the valve which opens it and allows the airflow to go through from the pump to the exhaust. However, The first one is most likely clogged from carbon. The second one is failed from the factory because it’s Chinese junk. The third one it’s not flowing from the pump side because You’re not applying vacuum to that small brass nipple on the valve. This is what opens the diaphragm that allows the air to come from the pump into the exhaust. The second one you tested is bad from the factory because it’s Chinese junk...never buy Chinese emissions parts! If you would’ve installed it on your car the exhaust gases would’ve gone into the pump and heat it’s so hot it would render the entire system useless in need of spending $1600 or more. Pierburg Is the company that makes the pumps in the valves I would stick to just them they’re made in Germany and everybody knows Germans make their stuff the right way. If your vehicle is a 2004 or newer, The exhaust valve does not have that small brass nipple as the pressure from the pump opens the valve it can also be clogged from carbon especially after 100,000 miles.
I agree with your comments 100% and a very good detailed explanation. You are correct on the 1st valve, it was original to the car with 140k miles. Likely failed years ago and because it was clogged, it didn't fail the main pump. 2nd one was definitely cheap junk so never installed it. The 3rd one is still on the car and works very well. I didn't have a simple way to add vacuum to the brass nipple, but this quick bench test will tell you if it should be good or not. So far my SAP system works as it should with the 3rd valve :) Thank you again for your good comment
Hi.. mmm...so if the solenoid vacuum valve not open the system faults! Right? Because i take out mine i blow with my mouth but nothing.. only with air pressure open.. but i thought tha you writing..is like transistor... The thirty pin control the other 2
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How did you determine the second valve was actually bad without applying vacuum to the brass fitting? I ordered a new control valve, and as your video showed, I couldn't blow through either end. It acted the same as the 'cheap' ebay one you show in the video. When I apply suction to the brass fitting, I can blow through. Seemingly, these need the vacuum to operate. I don't think it's bad, do you?
Operates with vacuum. They’re new but once vacuum you’ll see the true results. He expanded very well. Just left the vacuum operating out
On the one that works, how hard are you blowing to try and test that air is flowing out correctly? I pulled mine and had to blow extremely hard to get any air to flow out. It seems too restrictive to me, but I don't know how hard the pump is pushing air out. Would a clogged valve prevent the SAS from operating at all? I am trying to figure out why my SAS is not operating during a cold start to set the monitor for the hat system. I've already tested the pump itself by connecting to a 12v source directly and it works. Thanks.
Keep in mind, this bench test is not an official way to test it. On the one that was working, I had to blow pretty hard to overcome the lack of a vacuum.
My situation: The SAP and SAS did not work. I would get a fault code. I bench tested the SAP and it worked great. Then I messed with the valve and couldn't get it to blow through from either side. So I decided to get a replacement since it was pretty cheap at the time. Replacement came and it acted the same way. I thought that the valve needed a vacuum to open (and it does) but when I put everything back together, the SAP still did not work. I kept troubleshooting other parts of the system but couldn't get it to work. So I thought I would chance the valve and bought another one... The 3rd one I could blow through one end (SAP side) but couldn't reverse it (exhaust side). All I did was replace the valve and the second I started the car, the SAP kicked in and everything worked as it should have. This was almost 2 years ago... I am running the same valve you see in the video and drive this car frequently. (knock on wood) SAS works as it should with no issues since replacing this valve.
@@autoraiders9520 thanks for your reply. I don't seem to be getting 12v power to the SAP at all. With the car on, testing the connector doesn't show any voltage. My assumption is that even with a clogged valve, the pump should at least turn on during a cold start even if for a brief moment, which mine doesn't at all. Did your pump turn on at all before? As the valve itself has no electronics, I don't understand how it could prevent the pump from starting. I'm now thinking that the relay is bad and will try to pull it and test it. Unfortunately I am not getting any codes that any part of the SAS system is failing so I don't have much else to go on.
@@MrTeamriab what you're describing is exactly the issue I was having. :) I tested the SAP plug and didn't see any power. Had the same exact thought that the valve is mechanical so shouldn't matter. I went as far as testing the old relay and then replacing it. Even after replacing the relay, it would look like I am still not getting power at SAP plug
I don't know for certain, perhaps the pump needs a vacuum (which is caused by the valve opening) and if not shuts it off immediately? But the second I installed the 3rd valve, I immediately heard the SAP come on.
If you haven't done it yet, apply 12v to SAP and see if it comes on. Very quick and easy test but at least you would know if that's the issue. Then also test your relay, just in case.
Either way, your problem seems to be the same issue I had
@@autoraiders9520 thanks. Yes I did pull the SAP and confirmed it works when connected to external 12v power. I also managed to pull the relay and also confirmed that works as well. I also connected leads to the SAP plug and couldn't get a power reading so my jex move was to replace the B2S1 (pre-cat) O2 sensor (I already replaced the B1S1 last week to fix a fault code with that sensor). I'd read in some forums that the pre-cat sensors can be "lazy" over time/age and range it was recommended to replace especially with not knowing the age of mine. But maybe I should just try a new valve since that did the trick for you and it sounds like you had pretty much done everything I have so far. I'll report back if I have a breakthrough! Thanks again for your time and helping out!
fwiw I wanted to report back what my issue was. It turned out my z4m had a custom tune on it that prevented the SAP from running at all. No power. Once the mechanic was able to restore to factory firmware, the SAP started right up!
The check valve I have doesn't have a vacuum line connection 🤔 E90
Does the secondary air pump fail also by them time????
The SAP (Secondary Air Pump) didn’t work with the 1st and 2nd valve. Inc RO put the third valve
In, the SAP kicked on and has been working ever since. A year and a half ago with this valve and the original SAP to the car and they still work great
Hello, thank you for the video. When you blow into the valve, is there resistance, or does the air flow easily? I took mine off, and when I blow into it, the air does not pass freely. The air does pass, but I feel like I have to blow pretty hard. Thanks in advance for your response!
When blowing through it, there is no air going through it. Like many in the comments section said though, a vacuum on the other side does help open the valve.
If the air flows easily, that also means you have a valve that's stuck open so the air from the exhaust will back feed into the SAP which with time will cause it to fail.
I installed the 3rd one on my E46 over a year ago and have since tracked it, daily driven it, and have had no issues with the SAP kicking on and this injection valve working as it should :)
The explanation is incorrect. Vacuum is needed to open the valve. When you start the engine cold the computer sends power to the pump and the vaccum control valve. This will mean that the Air pushed by the pump will make it to the exhaust manifold. Once the Cat Converter is warm enough the computer will turn of the pump and the vaccum.
Thank you so much. Can An old one be cleaned and reused?
Generally carbon build up is heavy enough that it can't be cleaned and reused. The valve can't be taken apart either so a replacement is the viable option :)
i am having the same issue as you (2004 325ci m56 SULEV) the one way check valve on the exhaust isn’t working and the pump isn’t turning on during cold start. causing the SAP readiness monitor to be incomplete. i can replace the valve but what did you do to get the pump to turn on??? i’m getting power to connector and checked relay/fuse. really confused to why the the pump isn’t turning on… what did you do to fix your SAP?? your help or anyone else’s would be much appreciated thank you 👍
I went through all the same steps that you did. 🙂 Mainly making sure that you get 12v going to your SAP right when you start the car. It is also important to make sure that your check valve is working properly (new) otherwise exhaust gasses are making their way back into the SAP which can prevent it from working.
Separately, i took off the SAP (easy to do) and I applied 12v directly to the pump and make sure it works. Just be careful, it is violent, loud, and speeds up very fast so I only applied for ~5 seconds 🙂
@@autoraiders9520 so i’m getting power to the connector at cold start. also the pump turns on outside the car with additional power. the kombi valve on the exhaust is old and probably needs replacement.
so what i’m asking is what made your pump turn on inside the car normally? was it the new kombi valve or something else
@@e36singh yes, it was the new valve. I did all of the things you just listed and the pulp was still not turning on. I replaced the valve as the last step and it worked.
@@autoraiders9520 thanks for the help and great vid
@@e36singhdid replacing the valve get your pump started on the cold start? I'm in the same boat trying to set the monitor. Pump tested and works, valve is very hard to blow through but air does pass (not sure if that is normal or not). Not sure how to test voltage. Did you disconnect the power connector and connect leads to it during startup to test for power? Any tips would be appreciated! Thank you.
I believe you need more psi to blow air in this valve with the mouth you never can be moved internally this valve
I drive a 2004 330ci with a M54 engine and my air valve shown here dose t have a vacuum line? Anyone seen this?
It might have disintegrated from the heat and age. You can buy one at the auto parts store for less than $5 bucks 🙂
@@autoraiders9520 thank you for the reply! But I meant there is no vacuum port for the small vac line option. Only the SAP coming into the valve and the outlet to the exhaust. No hook up at all for a small vacuum hose. After reading around I believe the later 2004 models were manufactured with a SAP check valve that didn't require vacuum to operate. I guess lol
@@the1DasKrahenI’m having the same issues. Did you figure this out? Was it the check valve bad?
You only got it for 15?! I have a 2004 325xi and online it’s 80 but I bought mines at autozone for 130😑
Yes sir, bought it before all prices went through the roof 😆
You don't even need it, just seal the hole and call it a day
You’re not applying vacuum to the brass nipple on the valve which opens it and allows the airflow to go through from the pump to the exhaust. However, The first one is most likely clogged from carbon. The second one is failed from the factory because it’s Chinese junk. The third one it’s not flowing from the pump side because You’re not applying vacuum to that small brass nipple on the valve. This is what opens the diaphragm that allows the air to come from the pump into the exhaust. The second one you tested is bad from the factory because it’s Chinese junk...never buy Chinese emissions parts! If you would’ve installed it on your car the exhaust gases would’ve gone into the pump and heat it’s so hot it would render the entire system useless in need of spending $1600 or more. Pierburg Is the company that makes the pumps in the valves I would stick to just them they’re made in Germany and everybody knows Germans make their stuff the right way. If your vehicle is a 2004 or newer, The exhaust valve does not have that small brass nipple as the pressure from the pump opens the valve it can also be clogged from carbon especially after 100,000 miles.
I agree with your comments 100% and a very good detailed explanation. You are correct on the 1st valve, it was original to the car with 140k miles. Likely failed years ago and because it was clogged, it didn't fail the main pump. 2nd one was definitely cheap junk so never installed it. The 3rd one is still on the car and works very well. I didn't have a simple way to add vacuum to the brass nipple, but this quick bench test will tell you if it should be good or not. So far my SAP system works as it should with the 3rd valve :) Thank you again for your good comment
Best explanation over many vids I’ve seen. Especially pointing out the late model valves that don’t need vacuum assist. Great job guys! 🙏🏼
Hi.. mmm...so if the solenoid vacuum valve not open the system faults! Right? Because i take out mine i blow with my mouth but nothing.. only with air pressure open.. but i thought tha you writing..is like transistor... The thirty pin control the other 2
Ummm u testing it with out the vacuum LMAO 🤣
Deberías de eliminar este video, no son correctas tus explicaciones (como ya te han comentado). Gracais
Delete the video its misleading information.