I blame Government Regulators for this & other problems ridiculous emissions standards have created. People need to learn the truth about the agenda that's destroying the automotive industry & trying to force people into EVs. In school they teach photosynthesis & the laws of photosynthesis contradict the claims of the C02 alarmist. Yes it's a good idea to capture carbon monoxide but carbon dioxide is a life sustaining element on the periodic table & more C02 means more Green. A catalytic converter is all you really need & fuel injection really helps your engine run more efficient but you'll never reach the mpg standards Federal Bureaucracies have set & they set these standards knowing it will be impossible. If they really want better mpg they should promote diesel engines. What this is really all about is promoting an Agenda that's become a faith based Religion. Government needs to hand the Automotive Industry back over to the Free Market. I know some people try to avoid politics but it's impossible to do when talking about vehicles in America. 1 crazy thing is not all States in America have Emissions Regulations but car manufactures have to build cars that can sell in all States & its an example of how a few Big Government States can ruin an Industry for all States.
Just went on my wife's 2019 forester. I went in fully expecting to pay $1300, but it happened to be THE day that Subaru finally decided to cover them. Walked out paying nothing.
I have a 2020 forester, so far very happy with it. But I did receive my letter the other day telling me that TCV was covered till 15 years or 150,000 miles, whichever comes first. I only have about 22,000 miles on it now. I am planning on purchasing the 25-26 forester in the near future. That was my plan all along. 😊
I agree but the blame lies in our government. These CAFE standards to improve gas mileage have gone too far and force the manufacturers to cut corners.
2021 Subaru Outback here. just had car 60k serviced two weeks ago. one week ago CEL. we didn't buy the extended warranty. so we are now out of warranty 5yr/60k powertrain factory warranty...we are as of this writing, in a loaner car from the dealer, and I got a text earlier the CEL was the coolant bypass issue, and that Subaru is extending the warranty of this particular component and WILL be fixed under warranty. I was very glad, because as a 10yr Subaru owner, i was actually considering another brand in the future. But Subaru did me right on this.
After this Subaru Forester I am going back to Toyota . I will not be looking back. My decades of Toyotas proved trouble free. I have no interest I. These crappy cars.
One more time….have you seen the recent recalls on multiple years of Toyota Tundras for frame and engine failures? Lexus LX too? There’s no perfection anywhere.
I just visited my local Subaru dealership, they diagnosed this exact issue within 30 minutes and within 3.5 hours they had replaced the TCV with the updated designed component at zero cost to me. If your Subaru is throwing the codes listed below, RUN do not walk to your nearest dealer. My cars oil temp was running on average 144 degrees prior the repair and had ASS fuel economy. THAT IS NOT GOOD. Low oil temps = condensation in the engine (i.e WATER) P2682 P26A5 P26A3 Model for reference: MY2021 Subaru Outback Limited 2.5
I'm in Canada, I have a 2020 Subaru Outback Limited I bought used a year ago. Today I received a letter from Subaru Canada informing me that they are extending the warranty period to 15 years for owners of Subaru's with the TCV. Anyone who has paid out of pocket for the repair can now apply for reimbursement. Thanks for the great explanation you gave on the TCV, so far mine is holding out.
So instead of a $1200 metal TCV, Subaru replaced it a plastic one that is 1/3 the cost. Driving down the cost to make a vehicle. Then they're betting the plastic part will last 15 years, but they will warranty it during this time. By that time, perhaps the failure rate of the metal TCV will match, Given that, I think it's a wash
@@electroevolution5777 The early 80's Subaru's were the cats pajamas. Dual range transfer cases, with FWD / 4HI and 4LO, adjustable suspension, If they built them like that now, I'd buy one.
@@jamesgeorge4874 I totally agree. On a side note, my last name is george and my grandfathers name is James George. Never seen someone else with the same name haha.
What is designed to meet EPA & bogus CAFE standards, ends up causing more pollution and fuel use with towing, parts distribution, and testing the vehicle after the replacement is installed. Then the trips to and from the repair facility. All makes sense, right????
My 2020 Legacy was at a Subaru dealership for TWO MONTHS for a CVT issue (valve body ended up being replaced) which was resolved last week. Needless to say, it was an ordeal. I went to work this morning and every light on my dashboard went off like someone had missile lock on me so I drove it straight back to the dealership assuming it was related. "Here we go again..." Turns out, it was this issue and everything is totally covered! They had it diagnosed by 8:45 this same morning and I should have it back before the day is over. Some good news for a change! Great video, btw :)
Thanks for this. I had this happen on my 2020 Outback at 24,000 miles in 2022. I just got my letter last week . My dealership was awesome, gave me a loaner and had the fix done in about a week . I just hope I received the “improved TCV” . I may have to revisit my automobile choices . I was part of the 2001-2004 Honda Odyssey transmission failures , three replacements on my 2001. Of course I also had a 2004 Forester with the faulty head gaskets . In this case , I should have bought the XT. Next time .
Exactly. If you want to know what not to buy, check my driveway over the years 😂. I’m dating myself but add a 1979 Pinto, a 1980 Plymouth Volare and an 1986 Oldsmobile Calais. Now you know why I switched to Honda and Subaru.
My wife and I have owned may Subarus because of where we live, Sierra Nevada mountains. Our 9th Subaru , 2023 Forester, experienced TCV problems within one month of taking delivery. It was replaced by a dealer and subsequently experienced coolant leaks with in a month. Took it to another dealer and had the leak fixed. I look at the parts list from the replacement work and noticed items like manifold gasket kit. That was not a quick job to fix. I am disappointed with Subaru making the simple difficult, replace a thermostat with a complex TCV. And then designing and building, I hate to say a substandard TCV. They did not learn from the head gasket fiasco. This in the long run will be an expensive fix let alone a customer nightmare.
They've learned from this mistake, as they have removed it on the 2025 models. All car makers go through this process of research and development, coupled with fuel economy, reduced emissions, cost savings and increased profit margins.
A very good friend of mine had a 1973 Subaru D/L in high school. He finally started to use aluminum beer cans to keep the cylinder-head gaskets from leaking until it finally overheated and died. As far as that plastic valve, plastic can only go through so many heating and cooling cycles until it cracks. I know. I have a 1996 Mercury Grand Marquis with the plastic intake manifold. (IIRC 1996 was the first year.) In 500,000 miles, I have replaced 3 of them. I think that led to a class action lawsuit. GREAT VIDEO!
I know the Forester 2025 is redesign and like Mr Subaru said,they changed the TCV .But the outback 2025 model doesn't seem to be redesign.Do you know if the TCV on Outback 2025 is going to be change?
Bought a lower trim model Outback (Premium) specifically to get less problems (no turbo to fail and less nanny features). Funny how sometimes all a company has to do is nothing and they can't seem to pull it off. I totally get that all mechanical components can fail, but this seems to be overengineering at it's worst. Thanks Mr. Subaru, you are my go-to guy!!
Here is the information I found on this there is a law suit. The 85-page Subaru lawsuit says the thermo control valve defect affects 2019-2021 Crosstrek, Forester, Legacy and Outback models (the class vehicles) and can manifest without warning, rendering the vehicles “unsuitable for their intended purpose.” The case alleges the automaker has known of the problem since at least 2021, when it updated the design of the thermo control valves in the wake of numerous failures and a bevy of consumer complaints.
I would wait until the new 25 come out because they have them changed in the 2.5 . I have a limited 21 with the 2.5 I'm just going to hope for the best. @@PonderingPyramids
My wife's 2020 failed as did her niece's. Probably an emissions related "improvement" which actually worked because engines that can't run don't pollute.
Bought my 2020 Forester certified used last June (2023). Got the letter from Subaru about extending the TCV warranty first week of May, and then of course a few days later (5/10/24), it failed driving home from work. Luckily I had just left and was able to pull over into a parking lot right away. Dash lit up like a Christmas tree, car wouldn't go over 10 MPH, and engine revving up and down non-stop. Dealer confirmed that the TCV failed, and also found a faulty intake manifold. Both replaced under warranty at no cost to me. When I got it back, the car ran great, although it seemed to run a bit rough when starting cold, and smoothed out when warmed up. Had the car back for 14 days, and again, leaving work had the same issue, minus the engine revving high and low. Dealer says there was some carbon buildup, and they are doing a "deep decarbonization" of the engine, and also caught a misfire on cylinder 3. Not sure if these are related to the TCV, but the car ran absolutely perfect until the TCV failed. Hopefully I'll get it back in the next day or so...yikes.
I pulled up this video because my 2021 Outback TCV stuck open this afternoon 60 miles from home. Thanks for the information, I'll call & schedule an appointment with Subaru tomorrow. Thanks again
Pretty common we replace these at the dealer often ive seen these fail due to it sharing wiring grounds ect with tgv’s it can cause a stall condition has caused a few people to be stranded
OH! sorry one more question: what kind of preventive measure can we take to mitigate this failure? Stuff like: parking car in temp-stable garage? Example: is the plastic more likely to develop cracks due to rapid temp change from freezing weather to hot engine? Is there any way to PATCH small cracks before they get bigger, leading to complete failure? Thanks again!!
This happened to my (former) 2020 Subaru Outback at around 45,000 miles. I was on a long road trip and couldn’t get it in right away. Fortunately, the valve defaulted to open, so I was able to get home for service. It was a long drive without some of the features, and lots of dash lights came on. Neither the oil nor the coolant got to normal operating temperature. I know folks might not find this rational, but I was so frustrated and disappointed that I traded it in for a Honda. I still have a 2016 Outback and a 2011 Forester, but since I do so much long-distance driving, I lost trust in the vehicle. Fortunately, Subaru did step up and replace the part at no cost, but I couldn’t regain the confidence in the Outback.
@@bryandepoy8030New Pilot has really good driving dynamics, V6 engine, and probably the best AWD torque vectoring system among all mainstream SUVs! I just wish it had a nicer interior and full power passenger seat with lumbar adjustment. Even the Elite trim doesn’t have that.
Thanks for heads up on this TCV issue. I'd rather not gamble with the lives of my family. So, it's a hard pass on the Subaru brand. I really liked everything it offered. Too bad the company won't actually fix the problem by going back to what has been a reliable part, and easy to change.
Hey, at least they provided the extended warranty on the part. Lots of companies wouldn't do that. Thank you so much for this info because I have two Subarus with these engines. One has 62k miles and the other has 44k miles, no problems...yet. Again, thank you!
Lol becuse they would have been out legal fees and then still forced to fix it. This was a decision made 100% by accounting they don't give af about anyone but shareholders
I've got two of them (2018 Premium and a 2018 Limited) because I wanted the next generation (at the time) while it was fresh. You left out that a 6 speed manual was available back then. Times have changed quickly.
I have a 2019 Forester. My TCV went out at 115,543 miles. I guess it was stuck open as it was not overheating. Eye sight disabled, cruise disabled, chech engine light flashing and greaty decreased MPG. Codes present B2806, P26A3 and P26A5. No waiting on parts but it was fixed at the local dealer for a total of $1602. I just recently filled out the reimbursement paperwork and submitted it. Waiting to see. It seems like every year/ model car has some type of problem. My rear sway bars fell off at 600 miles, both front CV axles replaced at 100,000 miles and keeping the battery charged has been a pain.
My $.02: if you are still running the Subaru factory Panasonic battery, get something else. They suck. I’ve been running either Duracell (really!) or X2 in all my cars, work great.
I think your Forester is part of the battery draining class action lawsuit, correct me if I’m wrong. Maybe it was just a service bulletin. Regardless, several model years of Foresters, Outback, Legacy, (maybe Ascent), and Crosstrek, around years 2017 to 2022, has had batteries that die really early.
I've got a 2020 Forester.. It needed the TCV replaced last year. Now I'm hearing a creaking sound at low speeds, especially when I'm turning. I'm guessing it's a CV joint somewhere.. Can't tell if it's coming from the front or the rear.. I've been thinking about replacing it with something new within the next year.. Might just have to do it earlier, rather than later.
Thank you for this info. We were just on our way home to GA from NC yesterday and all the bells and whistles went off. Wasn't sure what to do. We came on home. Checked it this morning and it had a P26A5 code. I'll take it in tomorrow. Again, Thank You.
I have a '21 Crosstrek with the 2.0 engine, does it also have this ticking time bomb, or only the 2.5s? One more reason I wish it had a real coolant temperature gauge instead of the silly idiot light. I would gladly trade the useless "MPG" gauge for something that actually helps you monitor a critical engine function.
@@newradworld Thank you. Interesting there is such a fundamental difference between the two engine options. Finally being a cheapo paid off! We got out of the 2012 Impreza that was consuming oil a bunch and starting to nickel and dime us to death. In the mean time nursing our 05 Land Cruiser and 08 Tundra as long as they will live.
"Don't be stressed out". Sure. Glad my failed and was fixed. Happened at home near a dealer. What happens if it goes bad on vacation far from a dealer? This issue is always on one's mind until it fails. That's not a good way to enjoy your Subaru.
Subaru senior master here. Been replacing these since 2019 when they were introduced and started failing and have yet to see one come back. The redesign and reprogram seem the fix the issue. Not sure there’s much to worry about with this being an on going issue or a problem that needs to be “bandaged”. I encourage everyone to get their information from the dealer/subaru.
The dealers are full of crap, tried to sell me $2000 worth of unrelated crap then tell me half my electronics were also bad . I only let them do the TCV replacement and magically all my other stuff they said was bad was working properly again. I don’t trust the dealer anymore especially since after they did the work and I came to pick up my car I looked it over and found multiple things they didn’t do, left the main intake vacuum hose disconnected, didn’t replace the clip that holds the plastic part of intake still, other random bs.
My 2020 Outback left me stranded 7 hours away from home. Still under warranty bad sign about things to come. Add to this the glitchy infotainment system and the high cost of maintenance I traded it in and got a Honda.
I’ve lost count how many thermo control valves I’ve replaced since starting as a tech 😂. I’m not complaining since I get the job done quick, It usually takes me 1 1/2 hours to replace the tcv & bleed the cooling system. The common ones are the Foresters. The Outback/Legacy & Crosstrek I rarely get.
Yes I am a technician at Subaru. The TCV is located on the left hand side of the engine. Unfortunately no it won’t let you know when it goes out until the check engine light comes on with all the other lights. Most common symptoms are no heat and reduced engine power. As a fail safe the radiator cooling fans stay on at the highest speed to keep the engine coolant temperature as low as possible. Other symptoms which are rare include the car not starting or stuck in limp mode. In rare cases the thermo control valve can completely short out and since it’s in a can-line circuit with other 5V circuits I believe and also share the same ground (tumble generator valves, fuel pump pressure sensor, throttle body, etc.) and can also screw with the engine control module causing it to kinda glitch but it won’t cause damage to the ECM itself that I know of. In this situation the vehicle would have to be towed to the dealer for diagnosis & repair. If you are able to, what I’ve done to diagnose this problem and make the short go away when it won’t start is unplug the thermo control valve to eliminate the short. Looking from the front of the vehicle, It’s a little difficult to get at but there’s a grey connector in the back for the TCV close to the throttle body. The vehicle should start up but it sometimes this won’t always work since the ECM is stuck in limp mode. At that point again, it would need to be towed.
Can you figure out WHY the Foresters so much for failed TCV's? I thought the engines were identical when you opened the hood of a 2024 Outback vs the Forester 2.5L.
Remember that the Foresters are built in Japan and the Legacy and Outback is built in the US and possibly different lots of parts or even different manufacturers of the parts.
Just had TCV replaced under extended warranty inJuly on my 2020 Forester Not only disappointed with idiotic design of part but had to wait several weeks for scheduling appt. at dealer.. They are overwhelmed with shop appointments. This is my 3rd and possibly last Subaru.
Another awesome video. I had this happen to my 2021 CrossTrek Sport about a month ago. Freaked me out especially when the eyesight went out. I’m past the warranty thresholds so the worry about cost was real. Dealership replaced under the extended warranty and they said they had seen and replaced a ton of these recently. The dealership also told me without Subaru’s extended warranty it would have cost me around $1800 (part, labor, taxes, etc)!!
@@HalfBit360 Better is subjective. I just happen to prefer my STI over a WRX. No big whoop. Both versions, WRX and STI don't have this issue. You do you.
When I was a VW tech , around twenty years ago they introduced the limited production W-8 engine. It too was equipped with an "electronic" t-stat with a very high failure rate. I performed several repairs regarding this component, typically caused by the engine not reaching full operating temperature as you described in the video, along with the requisite trouble codes. Coolant leakage was not an issue on this problem.
I just graduated college and decided it was time to finally get my first car. I was shopping for a Subaru Crosstrek and ended up getting a Subaru Outback instead. I was excited because i got it for a decent price used of course because i have money saved but I'm trying to get to grad school. It has only 56,000 miles on it and is a 2020 no less! I was skeptical about the eyesight system and scared any problems with it would be catastrophic in terms of repairs and calibration. I did my research and felt pretty safe seeing as the head gasket issue has been addressed (relatively, still not a fan of the silicon gasket). But after having it for a week the battery died. I don't blame Subaru for that, it was the dead of winter in January and the car had been sitting for a month or two before i got a hold of it. Then comes just last month. I have only put about 1.5k miles on the car so far and my check engine light comes on after driving for only an hour straight and i loose the eyesight and x-mode feature. I pull out my OBD scanner and sure enough it was the Thermocontrol Bypass Valve. No warranty, completely out of pocket I'm going to have to find a way to fix this. Luckily it stuck open and im just stuck running cold. I've loved the car thus far but idk if im starting to really regret my decision or not yet. Im trying to get settled and start working multiple jobs and get a new apartment so i can make money to get to grad school but im wishing i just bought an older model toyota with less cheap and modernized electronic bells and whistles at this point.
If you run it cold for too long it can lead to sludgy oil because the moisture never boils out and you don't want that. Change the oil frequently until you can get it fixed.
@@MyBacktrail Just did an oil change before the light came on. Used royal purple too so thought it'd do me good considering it's a little higher end than what I usually get. So much for that, but thanks for the tip 👍
@@RodneyW This is my first time buying a car so forgive my ignorance, but this is a second owned car that came with no warranty to me at least. Would the warranty not be applicable to me due to the fact that I've never bought this from the dealership it originally came from? Or is the service bulletin claiming that this extends to any 2019-2021 Subaru with TCV repair reimbursement out of pocket?
@@trevorpogue4484 Normally (I am in Australia), the manufacturers warranty applies to the vehicle, not to the owner. Thus the cover has transferred to you, as long as you are the registered owner of the car.
Just wanted to hop on here and say thank you! I had a check engine light for about a week. Have followed you for a while and you post this video. I had no idea if it failed in an open or closed state so I took it right over. Sure enough, the engine codes were about the TCV and they replaced it under warranty with the upgraded part. Appreciate you and what you do!
Thanks for the info Mr. Subaru. 🫡Looking forward to learning how to DIY fix. I have a 21MY Forester. The valve went out at about 30k miles. covered under warranty but sucks to know it most likely will happen again 😕.
Never seen a single redesigned TCV fail. Also never seen these things fail "closed". 100% of the failures I have seen led the TCV to remain open. Once an issue happens the fail safe will open the TCV fully. Also this isn't a "New Big Issue! omg!". It's been known for a long time. They have had a redesigned part since February of 2022. They finally got off their rears and extended their warranty but these things don't get stuck closed and if it does, there is plenty of warning before the vehicle over heats. Don't ignore check engine lights.
@@melissasmess2773 Not saying it ever was a good idea. But all good idea's started with a ton of bad ones. They are trying to do everything possible to squeeze more fuel mileage out of these boxers. Thermal management is one more way to gain if done correctly. This day and age, old school mechanical management isn't as accurate and quick to respond than electrically controlled.
I would buy a Subaru if I lived near this guy--great traction and fun to drive--but I just don't have a go to mechanic like this with a real passion and knowledge for the vehicles.
Well damn. My wife has a 2022 Crosstrek, and the winter of '22-'23, for about 3 weeks in the Alaska winter, the engine would not warm up, stayed cool with no cabin heat. I figured the thermostat was stuck open so I got an appointment with the dealer....4 weeks out. In the meantime it started working correctly and worked fine last winter. Keep an eye on it?
I suggest reporting it so your shop can log it into the records. If it ultimately fails after warranty, it can be traced to starting to fail when first logged, hopefully within the warranty period.
A big thank you to Mr. Subaru for this video. I watched this video about a month ago and verified that both my wife's 2021 Outback and son's 2021 Forester have this part. I downloaded the service bulletin and gave my dealer a call. The told us we would have to wait till it failed before it would be replaced. They said we could contact Subaru Customer Service but that would not do us any good. Well today 9/1/2024 the unit failed, thankfully it failed open and we were able to drive 25 miles back to the house. Had I not seen this video I really would not have know what was going on. My wife's Outback only has 26000 miles on it since we are retired and do a lot less traveling. The car is her baby, garage kept and well serviced. Two months ago the OEM battery died of course out of warranty. Subaru did give us a voucher for $250 after I complained. This is our 3 Outback, we have owned two 2015 models and I still have my 2015. They have had some issues but nothing like this. While I am sure the car is still safe to drive it sure is not instilling much comfort for any long trips. At the very least they should be notifying those owners with this issue by mail .
I just bought an Outback Touring XT. I guess I don't have to worry about that failing now, just the turbo. Haha My wife has a 2017 Nissan rogue and we were looking to trade that in for a Forester, we just weren't sure if we were going to do a 2024 or a 2025. I guess going with the 2025 will lessen the chance since it no longer has that part.
My CEL came on 2 days ago. Brought it in yesterday and they fixed it. Covered under extension for this part which is now covered 15 years/150,000 miles.
They should cover the TCV for an additional 150k miles from when you had to have it replaced. Not just until you reach that mileage. Shows that they still don’t have confidence in their redesigned part.
Polycarbonate plastics really don't like many types of chemicals. The polycarbonate "windows" in modern computerized lathe housings become brittle over time because the coolant splashing on them during the cutting of metal. This can be really dangerous if a part flies out of the machine. So It's just a matter of time before they crack. I mean it's inevitable!
It's the same thing at Mazda, we always get the P0126 when the weather get cold for insufficient temperature. Replacement for what they call the ECCV (electronic coolant control valve). However, seems like they are going back to mechanical thermostat with their 2024 models.
so now i have to worry on my next road trip. need to pressure sba to recall instead. once consumer reports gets on this there goes their reliability ratings. I wish mine would fail already to get the new part. My dealer said they won’t preemptively replace unless it throws codes
I have a 2015 Outback Limited 3.6, currently just turned 99,000 km (Canada). Purchased new, it hasn't given me a single issue, I follow all the recommended services.....and some, approximately 5,000 km between oil changes. My wife is thinking about a new Outback, I'm reluctant, this Subaru has been great!
Love that I'm at work, watching RUclips videos as I go and happen to see this as I'm doing a Thermo control valve on a Forester. With new ECM update and new part, they seem to be good. Time will tell
The new part has to be better, but not the fix...because for 2025, they went back to the old tried and true. No more TCV for their normally aspirated engines. hmm
Hyundai tech here and we've been having the same issue since 2020 model years to current models. Hyundai calls them ITM (integrated thermal management) which is pretty much identical to what you're explaining.
It's only 80-90 degrees C under most circumstances. An electric kettle deals with hotter liquid (100 degrees C) and is probably made of plastic. Properly engineered design would not have a problem.
Thanks MrSubaru1387, This just happened to our 2019 forester after a long day of driving in 90+* weather. Eyesite warning and shutdown 15 miles from home after lettings it cool down ( temp gauge was normal ) was able to drive home most of the way before doing it again, I found that if I didn't get over 1500 rpm I could maintain 39-mph got home 5 miles found your video and your description is was exactly what was happening. Had it taken to the dealer and was told that the TCV had failed and was under warranty NO CHARGE! (Tow Bill : 365.00)
mine just failed not too long ago, and it failed open for bypass. i was under warranty. after dropping my car off and got home i just got the letter in the mail for an extended warranty
Just what I needed to see before a 7 hour solo road trip in my 2020 Outback that just crossed 50k… A little upsetting that I can take care of my car, do all the right maintenance on it myself and suddenly stuff like this can happen.
This happened to my 2020 Legacy last summer. Scared the crap out of me seeing all those warning lights and the engine just died. My dealer did the repair under warranty, and apparently in my case, it also blew up the engine wiring harness which also needed replacement under warranty. The loaner car was nice, but it was a two week process. I wonder if the extended warranty also covers the replacement components. Thanks Mr Subaru!
I'm glad you did this video because last night my wife's 2020 Forrester started doing crazy things, i watched this video and it answered all my questions, my TCV is bad and luckily it failed open. Thank you!!
My ‘23 Forester Premium has steadily been losing coolant.. I have to check it closer. Edit: I just remember, the safety systems on my car were shutting off randomly right after turning on the car and started driving, then the CELs would turn off on their own (this has happened 3-4 times in 6k miles)..makes me wonder now if it’s the TCV failing.. 🤔
I bought the 2024 Outback XT because of this issue (before the extended warranty). I figured if I was going to be on the hook eventually, I'd spend the money on the turbo version and just avoid the problem and get a faster car to enjoy. I always do whatever I can to keep my cars cool. Heat kills engines and transmissions. I add coolers and lower opening T-Stats. Now I have to see if I can run a cooler T-Stat in my new car.
Keeping my 2017 Crosstrek as long as possible (100k miles so far)......I think Mr Subaru's Crosstrek has about 200k miles so far, original CVT (& he tows also)👍
I had this failure while traveling state to state. I was lucky in that, mine failed open. But there was another symptom the you didn’t mention Mr. Subaru. My Outback went into a type of limp mode, in that, I had next to zero power and no throttle response. However, I could floor it and slowly gain speed on flat land, even achieving highway speeds. But if I had to let off the gas or went up hill, I lost all momentum (speed) and if climbing a hill long enough, I would shed speed until I could only do 20mph. I was completely baffled as to why so many and specific warning lights illuminated on the dash; it made no sense. To add insult to injury, the dealership made us sign an arbitration agreement preventing us from joining the class action Lemmon law suite. So I’m stuck with this time bomb of a car.
Just had this replaced under warranty. Got it back on Friday, all warnings back on the following Tuesday! Able to drive this time, and took back to Subaru service. Hate to hear all these possible issues will keep occurring. 😢
On the positive side, I assume it is the TCV that allows my 2024 2.5L Crosstrek to provide heat to the cabin almost immediately after running the engine.
@@williamevans6522 I'm aware, but he wasn't sure what the FACTORY warranty that comes with a new vehicle is, without any one-off extensions such as for the TCV...
In my Cali Forester( 2017) there are several issues with extended terms; ...EXH manifold ( front catalytic) 150 000 mi. ... steering rack is extended( forgot the mileage) ... shift sensor/ ignition interlock- I think this goes out to ten years/ unlimited miles, if memory serves.. Maybe the NHTSA has more info?
@@williamevans6522 I don't really care. I was simply pointing out what warranty is on the vehicle when it's driven off the lot since he wasn't sure about the terms of THAT PARTICULAR COVERAGE when he recorded the video...
I experienced this problem yesterday. Eyesight, check engine, brake light and other lights came on. Car went into limp mode and stranded us 50 miles from home. Had to be towed to the dealer but because Subaru is aware of the problem they covered all costs. They originally told me it would be two weeks before they could work on it. I complained and they worked it in. Tow bill was $130 so I feel lucky. 2020 Outback is looking for a new home.
The old coolant crossover pipe was the first and biggest failure on my '05 WRX STi. Warranty repair thankfully, but still hurt to see the engine pulled out of my new car at only 4000 miles. Glad I gave Subaru a 17 year break to see they made it worse. Hopefully the '23 FB25 revised part isn't failing as much as the '19-'21.
I bet some of it comes down to how easy it is to make one outta recycled materials. They're committed to the net-zero waste stuff. Absolute guess, and I don't know anything about anything.
Going through this issue now. Taking my 21 Outback in to dealer tomorrow after my mechanic told me about it and pulled up all paperwork for me to take to dealer. A royal pain for sure.
Not only is it going to be hanging over our heads, but after 15 years, they won't have to even keep parts. I find it hard to believe that with modern prototype testing that they didn't already know that there were going to be problems. How else could they come out with a "fix" so soon?
Mine failed. My dealer pretty much covered up the fact that they were repairing it at no cost to me while they were doing a replacement of a radio amplifier which was covered under another warranty.
I have a 2024 Crosstrek Limited with the 2.5. I immediately noticed that on cold days, it struggles to warm up and stay warm. I figured maybe a bad thermostat, but that’s extremely rare on a new car. Now I know why….
We had a terrible experience with this. Our forester was down for several months with no loaner car available for most of it. after the repair was done my wife noticed a noise coming from the engine so she took it back to the dealer and they said it was leaf blowing around in the cowl. She took it back then and they found something loose in the intake getting ready to fall in the engine.
Have you personally seen any issues with the updated part? I have a 2023 Forester and am concerned I will eventually experience this.. Also is there anything that can be done to lessen the odds of this happening? i.e earlier coolant changes or a better grade of coolant with maybe an additive to prevent corrosion? How about a retrofit and swap it out for the 2025 design?....Also, I'd like to know what constitutes a "high failure rate"....5% , 10%, 50 %?
If you’ve already paid for this repair out of pocket, Subaru will reimburse you.
Hi, where we can find the document that you show in they video?, thanks.
@@pedrofabianc www.subaruforester.org/attachments/09-119-24-1-pdf.595286/
I blame Government Regulators for this & other problems ridiculous emissions standards have created. People need to learn the truth about the agenda that's destroying the automotive industry & trying to force people into EVs. In school they teach photosynthesis & the laws of photosynthesis contradict the claims of the C02 alarmist. Yes it's a good idea to capture carbon monoxide but carbon dioxide is a life sustaining element on the periodic table & more C02 means more Green. A catalytic converter is all you really need & fuel injection really helps your engine run more efficient but you'll never reach the mpg standards Federal Bureaucracies have set & they set these standards knowing it will be impossible. If they really want better mpg they should promote diesel engines. What this is really all about is promoting an Agenda that's become a faith based Religion. Government needs to hand the Automotive Industry back over to the Free Market. I know some people try to avoid politics but it's impossible to do when talking about vehicles in America. 1 crazy thing is not all States in America have Emissions Regulations but car manufactures have to build cars that can sell in all States & its an example of how a few Big Government States can ruin an Industry for all States.
Is it possible to purchase a conversion kit back to the traditional thermostat on the cars that have TCV?
@@goldblueberries326 not currently. Likely not to be able to.
Just went on my wife's 2019 forester. I went in fully expecting to pay $1300, but it happened to be THE day that Subaru finally decided to cover them. Walked out paying nothing.
I have a 2020 forester, so far very happy with it. But I did receive my letter the other day telling me that TCV was covered till 15 years or 150,000 miles, whichever comes first. I only have about 22,000 miles on it now. I am planning on purchasing the 25-26 forester in the near future. That was my plan all along. 😊
That's great until it fails again..
@@janelaplant5780 the 2025 Forester doesn't have the TCV? Right?
2025 has a mechanical valve so not expected to fail
It’s hard to beat a good old school thermostat. Tried and true. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it!!
I agree but the blame lies in our government. These CAFE standards to improve gas mileage have gone too far and force the manufacturers to cut corners.
I guess you've never had an old school thermostat get stuck open or closed then?
@@JesseCampbell0I remember them well 20y ago but they were about $10 to replace and 1hr labour .not up to $2000 in repairs
@@JesseCampbell0 I’ve had a few that stuck in the last 40 years. In most cases the cost of a beer and 20 minutes time and your back on the road.
@@Rudevette I hear that, yup. in a VW/Audi it might be a couple hours to get to it but it's still a cheap fix
2021 Subaru Outback here. just had car 60k serviced two weeks ago. one week ago CEL. we didn't buy the extended warranty. so we are now out of warranty 5yr/60k powertrain factory warranty...we are as of this writing, in a loaner car from the dealer, and I got a text earlier the CEL was the coolant bypass issue, and that Subaru is extending the warranty of this particular component and WILL be fixed under warranty. I was very glad, because as a 10yr Subaru owner, i was actually considering another brand in the future. But Subaru did me right on this.
After this Subaru Forester I am going back to Toyota . I will not be looking back. My decades of Toyotas proved trouble free.
I have no interest I. These crappy cars.
One more time….have you seen the recent recalls on multiple years of Toyota Tundras for frame and engine failures? Lexus LX too? There’s no perfection anywhere.
@ytSuns26 - Never buy Toyota
@@DeadofWinter321why
@@Holyheart1 - They're junk. Only good Japanese brands left are Subaru and Mazda.
I just visited my local Subaru dealership, they diagnosed this exact issue within 30 minutes and within 3.5 hours they had replaced the TCV with the updated designed component at zero cost to me.
If your Subaru is throwing the codes listed below, RUN do not walk to your nearest dealer. My cars oil temp was running on average 144 degrees prior the repair and had ASS fuel economy. THAT IS NOT GOOD. Low oil temps = condensation in the engine (i.e WATER)
P2682
P26A5
P26A3
Model for reference: MY2021 Subaru Outback Limited 2.5
I'm in Canada, I have a 2020 Subaru Outback Limited I bought used a year ago. Today I received a letter from Subaru Canada informing me that they are extending the warranty period to 15 years for owners of Subaru's with the TCV. Anyone who has paid out of pocket for the repair can now apply for reimbursement. Thanks for the great explanation you gave on the TCV, so far mine is holding out.
So instead of a $1200 metal TCV, Subaru replaced it a plastic one that is 1/3 the cost. Driving down the cost to make a vehicle. Then they're betting the plastic part will last 15 years, but they will warranty it during this time. By that time, perhaps the failure rate of the metal TCV will match, Given that, I think it's a wash
I remember when Subaru commercials tag line was
" _Inexpensive, and built to stay that way_ " .
i dead ass read this comment and actually started laughing so hard... rolling on the floor. My fiancé is worried for me lol
@@electroevolution5777 The early 80's Subaru's were the cats pajamas. Dual range transfer cases, with FWD / 4HI and 4LO, adjustable suspension, If they built them like that now, I'd buy one.
@@jamesgeorge4874 I totally agree. On a side note, my last name is george and my grandfathers name is James George. Never seen someone else with the same name haha.
I have James and George in my whole name, but not just those, and not in that order either ! But I do like it better that way,
@@jamesgeorge4874I got a modern dual-range imported. But they aren't the old 4WD units, the modern dual-range units are all AWD.
What is designed to meet EPA & bogus CAFE standards, ends up causing more pollution and fuel use with towing, parts distribution, and testing the vehicle after the replacement is installed. Then the trips to and from the repair facility.
All makes sense, right????
My 2020 Legacy was at a Subaru dealership for TWO MONTHS for a CVT issue (valve body ended up being replaced) which was resolved last week. Needless to say, it was an ordeal. I went to work this morning and every light on my dashboard went off like someone had missile lock on me so I drove it straight back to the dealership assuming it was related. "Here we go again..."
Turns out, it was this issue and everything is totally covered! They had it diagnosed by 8:45 this same morning and I should have it back before the day is over. Some good news for a change!
Great video, btw :)
Thanks for this. I had this happen on my 2020 Outback at 24,000 miles in 2022. I just got my letter last week . My dealership was awesome, gave me a loaner and had the fix done in about a week . I just hope I received the “improved TCV” . I may have to revisit my automobile choices . I was part of the 2001-2004 Honda Odyssey transmission failures , three replacements on my 2001. Of course I also had a 2004 Forester with the faulty head gaskets . In this case , I should have bought the XT. Next time .
You are like iron filings to the magnet of bad car technology. :)
Exactly. If you want to know what not to buy, check my driveway over the years 😂. I’m dating myself but add a 1979 Pinto, a 1980 Plymouth Volare and an 1986 Oldsmobile Calais. Now you know why I switched to Honda and Subaru.
I don't know how anyone can dislike this channel. This is be go to channel for Subaru owners.
My wife and I have owned may Subarus because of where we live, Sierra Nevada mountains. Our 9th Subaru , 2023 Forester, experienced TCV problems within one month of taking delivery. It was replaced by a dealer and subsequently experienced coolant leaks with in a month. Took it to another dealer and had the leak fixed. I look at the parts list from the replacement work and noticed items like manifold gasket kit. That was not a quick job to fix. I am disappointed with Subaru making the simple difficult, replace a thermostat with a complex TCV. And then designing and building, I hate to say a substandard TCV. They did not learn from the head gasket fiasco. This in the long run will be an expensive fix let alone a customer nightmare.
They've learned from this mistake, as they have removed it on the 2025 models. All car makers go through this process of research and development, coupled with fuel economy, reduced emissions, cost savings and increased profit margins.
Subaru started building low quality parts to boost profits
@MyLife2020 that's EVERY manufacturer.
A very good friend of mine had a 1973 Subaru D/L in high school. He finally started to use aluminum beer cans to keep the cylinder-head gaskets from leaking until it finally overheated and died. As far as that plastic valve, plastic can only go through so many heating and cooling cycles until it cracks. I know. I have a 1996 Mercury Grand Marquis with the plastic intake manifold. (IIRC 1996 was the first year.) In 500,000 miles, I have replaced 3 of them. I think that led to a class action lawsuit. GREAT VIDEO!
Thank God I saw this video. Mines just went on and I called the dealer. They are replacing this week. Thanks again.
spoke to one of my guys from subaru canada and i hear they removed it off the 2025 engines
Man I had like 20 in a row come to the dealership last February.
@@skyfall8788wow!
I know the Forester 2025 is redesign and like Mr Subaru said,they changed the TCV .But the outback 2025 model doesn't seem to be redesign.Do you know if the TCV on Outback 2025 is going to be change?
@@benm.5465 OB still running TCV from what im seeing
@@benm.5465 just had 3 2025 fozzies come off the truck on fri, no TCV
Bought a lower trim model Outback (Premium) specifically to get less problems (no turbo to fail and less nanny features). Funny how sometimes all a company has to do is nothing and they can't seem to pull it off. I totally get that all mechanical components can fail, but this seems to be overengineering at it's worst. Thanks Mr. Subaru, you are my go-to guy!!
Here is the information I found on this there is a law suit. The 85-page Subaru lawsuit says the thermo control valve defect affects 2019-2021 Crosstrek, Forester, Legacy and Outback models (the class vehicles) and can manifest without warning, rendering the vehicles “unsuitable for their intended purpose.” The case alleges the automaker has known of the problem since at least 2021, when it updated the design of the thermo control valves in the wake of numerous failures and a bevy of consumer complaints.
"Unsuitable for their intended purpose?" That is the first time I have heard that used to describe, "Overheat the engine and ruin it."
@@lvsqcsl I would rather the phrase "engine go kaput."
What about the cars made from 2021 to 2025s, another law suite, I guess!
I would wait until the new 25 come out because they have them changed in the 2.5 . I have a limited 21 with the 2.5 I'm just going to hope for the best. @@PonderingPyramids
@@PonderingPyramidsget an extended warranty.
Thanks!
Thank you so much!!!
You're the man! If I see I have a problem on my Subaru and I see your channel addressing it, I'm 100% going to the video. Such good info!
Love how they designed it how to fail optimally instead of how to work reliably
At least make a fail safe design ffs!
With some more fore thought and planning they may have achieved both. Though nothing is foolproof to a determined fool.
My wife's 2020 failed as did her niece's. Probably an emissions related "improvement" which actually worked because engines that can't run don't pollute.
Bought my 2020 Forester certified used last June (2023). Got the letter from Subaru about extending the TCV warranty first week of May, and then of course a few days later (5/10/24), it failed driving home from work. Luckily I had just left and was able to pull over into a parking lot right away. Dash lit up like a Christmas tree, car wouldn't go over 10 MPH, and engine revving up and down non-stop. Dealer confirmed that the TCV failed, and also found a faulty intake manifold. Both replaced under warranty at no cost to me. When I got it back, the car ran great, although it seemed to run a bit rough when starting cold, and smoothed out when warmed up. Had the car back for 14 days, and again, leaving work had the same issue, minus the engine revving high and low. Dealer says there was some carbon buildup, and they are doing a "deep decarbonization" of the engine, and also caught a misfire on cylinder 3. Not sure if these are related to the TCV, but the car ran absolutely perfect until the TCV failed. Hopefully I'll get it back in the next day or so...yikes.
Great. Wish I would have known this 2 weeks ago. Just purchased a 24 Forester.
Yep, me too.
24 Outback 4 weeks ago 😢
Check the post from @camerondaley1481 right above your comment. He has not seen a failure since the redesign in 2022.
I pulled up this video because my 2021 Outback TCV stuck open this afternoon 60 miles from home. Thanks for the information, I'll call & schedule an appointment with Subaru tomorrow. Thanks again
Pretty common we replace these at the dealer often ive seen these fail due to it sharing wiring grounds ect with tgv’s it can cause a stall condition has caused a few people to be stranded
Caused my tps to fail as well and car would not run until TCV was replaced
OH! sorry one more question: what kind of preventive measure can we take to mitigate this failure? Stuff like: parking car in temp-stable garage? Example: is the plastic more likely to develop cracks due to rapid temp change from freezing weather to hot engine? Is there any way to PATCH small cracks before they get bigger, leading to complete failure? Thanks again!!
My 2019 Foresters TCV failed this month
Fortunately under warranty, just.
73000km
Dont worry, theres a warranty extention for this part
Thanks for the heads up 😃. Have 2022 Outback touring 2.5 . No issues so far. Glad you mentioned that Subaru backing up the issue.
The 2022 should have the new version of the TCV as they started installing the new version in June of 21
Glad to hear Subaru is backing this up. Not like the head gaskets.
This happened to my (former) 2020 Subaru Outback at around 45,000 miles. I was on a long road trip and couldn’t get it in right away. Fortunately, the valve defaulted to open, so I was able to get home for service. It was a long drive without some of the features, and lots of dash lights came on. Neither the oil nor the coolant got to normal operating temperature. I know folks might not find this rational, but I was so frustrated and disappointed that I traded it in for a Honda. I still have a 2016 Outback and a 2011 Forester, but since I do so much long-distance driving, I lost trust in the vehicle. Fortunately, Subaru did step up and replace the part at no cost, but I couldn’t regain the confidence in the Outback.
Any problems for you with cracked windshields on your Outback? That's my main concern in looking for a good slightly used Outback.
No windshield cracks at all.
Bryan, I meant to inquire: what Honda did you get to replace the Subaru?
2021 Honda Pilot. Incredible vehicle, in my view. Not particularly good on gas, but solid and does great in snow. My first Honda; won’t be my last.
@@bryandepoy8030New Pilot has really good driving dynamics, V6 engine, and probably the best AWD torque vectoring system among all mainstream SUVs!
I just wish it had a nicer interior and full power passenger seat with lumbar adjustment. Even the Elite trim doesn’t have that.
Thanks for heads up on this TCV issue. I'd rather not gamble with the lives of my family. So, it's a hard pass on the Subaru brand. I really liked everything it offered. Too bad the company won't actually fix the problem by going back to what has been a reliable part, and easy to change.
You are the Subaru MAN, Dude!
Hey, at least they provided the extended warranty on the part. Lots of companies wouldn't do that. Thank you so much for this info because I have two Subarus with these engines. One has 62k miles and the other has 44k miles, no problems...yet. Again, thank you!
Oh yes, daddy subaru didn't completely fuck you over
I mean, it's either that or the class action lawsuit goes through which would be even worse for them
Lol becuse they would have been out legal fees and then still forced to fix it. This was a decision made 100% by accounting they don't give af about anyone but shareholders
2018 crosstrek premium (the best model year)
no auto start stop
no eyesight
no problems
Agree 100% I have a 2017 Forester Touring and have not had any problems
I have a 2018 Legacy, no eyesight, no auto start 🙂... phew so glad I missed this!
I've got two of them (2018 Premium and a 2018 Limited) because I wanted the next generation (at the time) while it was fresh. You left out that a 6 speed manual was available back then. Times have changed quickly.
The 2.5 N/A engine is the only with the TCV. All the other F series have a regular thermostat.
I have a 2019 Forester. My TCV went out at 115,543 miles. I guess it was stuck open as it was not overheating. Eye sight disabled, cruise disabled, chech engine light flashing and greaty decreased MPG. Codes present B2806, P26A3 and P26A5. No waiting on parts but it was fixed at the local dealer for a total of $1602. I just recently filled out the reimbursement paperwork and submitted it. Waiting to see. It seems like every year/ model car has some type of problem. My rear sway bars fell off at 600 miles, both front CV axles replaced at 100,000 miles and keeping the battery charged has been a pain.
My $.02: if you are still running the Subaru factory Panasonic battery, get something else. They suck. I’ve been running either Duracell (really!) or X2 in all my cars, work great.
I think your Forester is part of the battery draining class action lawsuit, correct me if I’m wrong. Maybe it was just a service bulletin. Regardless, several model years of Foresters, Outback, Legacy, (maybe Ascent), and Crosstrek, around years 2017 to 2022, has had batteries that die really early.
@@nowiecoche Our 2015 Forester's battery was replaced under warrantee. It didn't last 2 years.
I've got a 2020 Forester.. It needed the TCV replaced last year. Now I'm hearing a creaking sound at low speeds, especially when I'm turning. I'm guessing it's a CV joint somewhere.. Can't tell if it's coming from the front or the rear.. I've been thinking about replacing it with something new within the next year.. Might just have to do it earlier, rather than later.
Thank you for this info. We were just on our way home to GA from NC yesterday and all the bells and whistles went off. Wasn't sure what to do. We came on home. Checked it this morning and it had a P26A5 code. I'll take it in tomorrow. Again, Thank You.
I have a '21 Crosstrek with the 2.0 engine, does it also have this ticking time bomb, or only the 2.5s? One more reason I wish it had a real coolant temperature gauge instead of the silly idiot light. I would gladly trade the useless "MPG" gauge for something that actually helps you monitor a critical engine function.
Same question here - wife has a 2.0 in her crosstrek
@@coztod Only the 2.5's. He could have been much clearer about this.
@@newradworld Thank you. Interesting there is such a fundamental difference between the two engine options. Finally being a cheapo paid off! We got out of the 2012 Impreza that was consuming oil a bunch and starting to nickel and dime us to death. In the mean time nursing our 05 Land Cruiser and 08 Tundra as long as they will live.
I have a 2021 Forester with 60k miles. What should I expect with this situation? Should I go ahead and get the TCV replace before I am stranded?
"Don't be stressed out". Sure. Glad my failed and was fixed. Happened at home near a dealer. What happens if it goes bad on vacation far from a dealer? This issue is always on one's mind until it fails. That's not a good way to enjoy your Subaru.
2021 forester, just had mine failed open. Glad I watched this earlier, thanks for the video!
Subaru senior master here. Been replacing these since 2019 when they were introduced and started failing and have yet to see one come back. The redesign and reprogram seem the fix the issue. Not sure there’s much to worry about with this being an on going issue or a problem that needs to be “bandaged”. I encourage everyone to get their information from the dealer/subaru.
The dealers are full of crap, tried to sell me $2000 worth of unrelated crap then tell me half my electronics were also bad . I only let them do the TCV replacement and magically all my other stuff they said was bad was working properly again. I don’t trust the dealer anymore especially since after they did the work and I came to pick up my car I looked it over and found multiple things they didn’t do, left the main intake vacuum hose disconnected, didn’t replace the clip that holds the plastic part of intake still, other random bs.
My 2020 Outback left me stranded 7 hours away from home. Still under warranty bad sign about things to come. Add to this the glitchy infotainment system and the high cost of maintenance I traded it in and got a Honda.
I’ve lost count how many thermo control valves I’ve replaced since starting as a tech 😂. I’m not complaining since I get the job done quick, It usually takes me 1 1/2 hours to replace the tcv & bleed the cooling system. The common ones are the Foresters. The Outback/Legacy & Crosstrek I rarely get.
I take it you are a mechanic at a Subaru dealership?
Where is that TCV located at ? Will it let you know before it goes out ?
Yes I am a technician at Subaru. The TCV is located on the left hand side of the engine. Unfortunately no it won’t let you know when it goes out until the check engine light comes on with all the other lights. Most common symptoms are no heat and reduced engine power. As a fail safe the radiator cooling fans stay on at the highest speed to keep the engine coolant temperature as low as possible. Other symptoms which are rare include the car not starting or stuck in limp mode. In rare cases the thermo control valve can completely short out and since it’s in a can-line circuit with other 5V circuits I believe and also share the same ground (tumble generator valves, fuel pump pressure sensor, throttle body, etc.) and can also screw with the engine control module causing it to kinda glitch but it won’t cause damage to the ECM itself that I know of. In this situation the vehicle would have to be towed to the dealer for diagnosis & repair. If you are able to, what I’ve done to diagnose this problem and make the short go away when it won’t start is unplug the thermo control valve to eliminate the short. Looking from the front of the vehicle, It’s a little difficult to get at but there’s a grey connector in the back for the TCV close to the throttle body. The vehicle should start up but it sometimes this won’t always work since the ECM is stuck in limp mode. At that point again, it would need to be towed.
Can you figure out WHY the Foresters so much for failed TCV's? I thought the engines were identical when you opened the hood of a 2024 Outback vs the Forester 2.5L.
Remember that the Foresters are built in Japan and the Legacy and Outback is built in the US and possibly different lots of parts or even different manufacturers of the parts.
Just had TCV replaced under extended warranty inJuly on my 2020 Forester Not only disappointed with idiotic design of part but had to wait several weeks for scheduling appt. at dealer.. They are overwhelmed with shop appointments. This is my 3rd and possibly last Subaru.
Another awesome video. I had this happen to my 2021 CrossTrek Sport about a month ago. Freaked me out especially when the eyesight went out. I’m past the warranty thresholds so the worry about cost was real. Dealership replaced under the extended warranty and they said they had seen and replaced a ton of these recently. The dealership also told me without Subaru’s extended warranty it would have cost me around $1800 (part, labor, taxes, etc)!!
the tcv part alone only cost 400 USD. easy replaced.
When shopping for my OBXT, I was told “Don’t get turbo models, more to fail”….apparently not.
One more reason to love my 2019 STI. It may be "old tech" compared to the newer subies but what works, works!
Subaru will back the repair. Unfortunately, the Stealership will make you pay.
Well the new WRX doesn’t have this problem and is better than your 2019 STI what’s your point
@@NoNo-iz8hdnegative. All cars that are affected by this will have a 150k miles or 15 years extended warranty on that part.
@@HalfBit360 Better is subjective. I just happen to prefer my STI over a WRX. No big whoop. Both versions, WRX and STI don't have this issue. You do you.
@@JenniLudes Ah I see, I was looking at it in a matter of mechanics rather than personal experience. It’s not my problem, I get paid to fix it!
When I was a VW tech , around twenty years ago they introduced the limited production W-8 engine. It too was equipped with an "electronic" t-stat with a very high failure rate. I performed several repairs regarding this component, typically caused by the engine not reaching full operating temperature as you described in the video, along with the requisite trouble codes. Coolant leakage was not an issue on this problem.
I just graduated college and decided it was time to finally get my first car. I was shopping for a Subaru Crosstrek and ended up getting a Subaru Outback instead. I was excited because i got it for a decent price used of course because i have money saved but I'm trying to get to grad school. It has only 56,000 miles on it and is a 2020 no less! I was skeptical about the eyesight system and scared any problems with it would be catastrophic in terms of repairs and calibration. I did my research and felt pretty safe seeing as the head gasket issue has been addressed (relatively, still not a fan of the silicon gasket). But after having it for a week the battery died. I don't blame Subaru for that, it was the dead of winter in January and the car had been sitting for a month or two before i got a hold of it. Then comes just last month. I have only put about 1.5k miles on the car so far and my check engine light comes on after driving for only an hour straight and i loose the eyesight and x-mode feature. I pull out my OBD scanner and sure enough it was the Thermocontrol Bypass Valve. No warranty, completely out of pocket I'm going to have to find a way to fix this. Luckily it stuck open and im just stuck running cold. I've loved the car thus far but idk if im starting to really regret my decision or not yet. Im trying to get settled and start working multiple jobs and get a new apartment so i can make money to get to grad school but im wishing i just bought an older model toyota with less cheap and modernized electronic bells and whistles at this point.
If you run it cold for too long it can lead to sludgy oil because the moisture never boils out and you don't want that. Change the oil frequently until you can get it fixed.
@@MyBacktrail Just did an oil change before the light came on. Used royal purple too so thought it'd do me good considering it's a little higher end than what I usually get. So much for that, but thanks for the tip 👍
I hope you've seen the pinned comment from @MrSubaru1387 - you can get this fixed under extended warranty.
@@RodneyW This is my first time buying a car so forgive my ignorance, but this is a second owned car that came with no warranty to me at least. Would the warranty not be applicable to me due to the fact that I've never bought this from the dealership it originally came from? Or is the service bulletin claiming that this extends to any 2019-2021 Subaru with TCV repair reimbursement out of pocket?
@@trevorpogue4484 Normally (I am in Australia), the manufacturers warranty applies to the vehicle, not to the owner. Thus the cover has transferred to you, as long as you are the registered owner of the car.
Just wanted to hop on here and say thank you! I had a check engine light for about a week. Have followed you for a while and you post this video. I had no idea if it failed in an open or closed state so I took it right over. Sure enough, the engine codes were about the TCV and they replaced it under warranty with the upgraded part. Appreciate you and what you do!
Thanks for the info Mr. Subaru. 🫡Looking forward to learning how to DIY fix. I have a 21MY Forester. The valve went out at about 30k miles. covered under warranty but sucks to know it most likely will happen again 😕.
Just got my replaced. 2020 Forester with 63k. Sure feel more confident now. Especially with long trips coming up.
Never seen a single redesigned TCV fail. Also never seen these things fail "closed". 100% of the failures I have seen led the TCV to remain open. Once an issue happens the fail safe will open the TCV fully. Also this isn't a "New Big Issue! omg!". It's been known for a long time. They have had a redesigned part since February of 2022. They finally got off their rears and extended their warranty but these things don't get stuck closed and if it does, there is plenty of warning before the vehicle over heats. Don't ignore check engine lights.
Are you a mechanic? Do you work at a Subaru dealer?
@@jeffstone28 Both of the above.
@@Devilhog1981 K - thanks. Now I know where you are coming from!
I have worked on Subaru's for 33 years, this new system is a bad idea.
@@melissasmess2773 Not saying it ever was a good idea. But all good idea's started with a ton of bad ones. They are trying to do everything possible to squeeze more fuel mileage out of these boxers. Thermal management is one more way to gain if done correctly. This day and age, old school mechanical management isn't as accurate and quick to respond than electrically controlled.
I would buy a Subaru if I lived near this guy--great traction and fun to drive--but I just don't have a go to mechanic like this with a real passion and knowledge for the vehicles.
Well damn. My wife has a 2022 Crosstrek, and the winter of '22-'23, for about 3 weeks in the Alaska winter, the engine would not warm up, stayed cool with no cabin heat. I figured the thermostat was stuck open so I got an appointment with the dealer....4 weeks out. In the meantime it started working correctly and worked fine last winter. Keep an eye on it?
I suggest reporting it so your shop can log it into the records. If it ultimately fails after warranty, it can be traced to starting to fail when first logged, hopefully within the warranty period.
A big thank you to Mr. Subaru for this video. I watched this video about a month ago and verified that both my wife's 2021 Outback and son's 2021 Forester have this part. I downloaded the service bulletin and gave my dealer a call. The told us we would have to wait till it failed before it would be replaced. They said we could contact Subaru Customer Service but that would not do us any good. Well today 9/1/2024 the unit failed, thankfully it failed open and we were able to drive 25 miles back to the house. Had I not seen this video I really would not have know what was going on. My wife's Outback only has 26000 miles on it since we are retired and do a lot less traveling. The car is her baby, garage kept and well serviced. Two months ago the OEM battery died of course out of warranty. Subaru did give us a voucher for $250 after I complained. This is our 3 Outback, we have owned two 2015 models and I still have my 2015. They have had some issues but nothing like this. While I am sure the car is still safe to drive it sure is not instilling much comfort for any long trips. At the very least they should be notifying those owners with this issue by mail .
I just bought an Outback Touring XT. I guess I don't have to worry about that failing now, just the turbo. Haha My wife has a 2017 Nissan rogue and we were looking to trade that in for a Forester, we just weren't sure if we were going to do a 2024 or a 2025. I guess going with the 2025 will lessen the chance since it no longer has that part.
My CEL came on 2 days ago. Brought it in yesterday and they fixed it. Covered under extension for this part which is now covered 15 years/150,000 miles.
Glad I felt the need for speed and bought my 2022 Outback Onyx with the turbo. As always, thanks for the information.
They should cover the TCV for an additional 150k miles from when you had to have it replaced. Not just until you reach that mileage. Shows that they still don’t have confidence in their redesigned part.
Polycarbonate plastics really don't like many types of chemicals. The polycarbonate "windows" in modern computerized lathe housings become brittle over time because the coolant splashing on them during the cutting of metal. This can be really dangerous if a part flies out of the machine. So It's just a matter of time before they crack. I mean it's inevitable!
It's too bad more of the aerospace quality plastics haven't migrated into cars. They continue to use crappy ABS and polycarbonate plastics.
It's the same thing at Mazda, we always get the P0126 when the weather get cold for insufficient temperature. Replacement for what they call the ECCV (electronic coolant control valve). However, seems like they are going back to mechanical thermostat with their 2024 models.
so now i have to worry on my next road trip. need to pressure sba to recall instead. once consumer reports gets on this there goes their reliability ratings. I wish mine would fail already to get the new part. My dealer said they won’t preemptively replace unless it throws codes
There’s a class action lawsuit. Forgot to mention it in the video.
I have a 2015 Outback Limited 3.6, currently just turned 99,000 km (Canada). Purchased new, it hasn't given me a single issue, I follow all the recommended services.....and some, approximately 5,000 km between oil changes. My wife is thinking about a new Outback, I'm reluctant, this Subaru has been great!
Love that I'm at work, watching RUclips videos as I go and happen to see this as I'm doing a Thermo control valve on a Forester. With new ECM update and new part, they seem to be good. Time will tell
The new part has to be better, but not the fix...because for 2025, they went back to the old tried and true. No more TCV for their normally aspirated engines. hmm
Hyundai tech here and we've been having the same issue since 2020 model years to current models. Hyundai calls them ITM (integrated thermal management) which is pretty much identical to what you're explaining.
This was foreseeable. Plastic and electronics working with super hot coolant.
It's only 80-90 degrees C under most circumstances. An electric kettle deals with hotter liquid (100 degrees C) and is probably made of plastic. Properly engineered design would not have a problem.
How hot is “super hot” coolant?
@@523ind Over 190°F.
@MrSubaru1387 As the owner of a 2022 Subaru Outback, I was unaware of this potential problem. Thank you for this video!
Thanks MrSubaru1387, This just happened to our 2019 forester after a long day of driving in 90+* weather. Eyesite warning and shutdown 15 miles from home after lettings it cool down ( temp gauge was normal ) was able to drive home most of the way before doing it again, I found that if I didn't get over 1500 rpm I could maintain 39-mph got home 5 miles found your video and your description is was exactly what was happening. Had it taken to the dealer and was told that the TCV had failed and was under warranty NO CHARGE! (Tow Bill : 365.00)
mine just failed not too long ago, and it failed open for bypass. i was under warranty. after dropping my car off and got home i just got the letter in the mail for an extended warranty
Mine failed open in November 2023 with 18K miles on my 2020 forester, the dealer replaced it no charge.
Just what I needed to see before a 7 hour solo road trip in my 2020 Outback that just crossed 50k…
A little upsetting that I can take care of my car, do all the right maintenance on it myself and suddenly stuff like this can happen.
this is the stuff you expect form Hyundai, Nissan, GM, VW, etc, that is why I bought a Subaru and not one of the fore mentioned autos. 😒
Should I avoid the 2024 Subaru Forester or Crosstrek models and go with a 2025 model or is the thermal control valve not an issue for these models?
This happened to my 2020 Legacy last summer. Scared the crap out of me seeing all those warning lights and the engine just died. My dealer did the repair under warranty, and apparently in my case, it also blew up the engine wiring harness which also needed replacement under warranty. The loaner car was nice, but it was a two week process. I wonder if the extended warranty also covers the replacement components. Thanks Mr Subaru!
Thank you for this video!! I was ready to get a 2024 forester for my Wife but now wait for the 2025!!
Yep. My 2019 forester had it. Luckily got it fixed under warranty
I'm glad you did this video because last night my wife's 2020 Forrester started doing crazy things, i watched this video and it answered all my questions, my TCV is bad and luckily it failed open. Thank you!!
Mine just failed.. before I drive it to the dealer (2 hours away) how do I know it's failed open ??
My ‘23 Forester Premium has steadily been losing coolant.. I have to check it closer.
Edit: I just remember, the safety systems on my car were shutting off randomly right after turning on the car and started driving, then the CELs would turn off on their own (this has happened 3-4 times in 6k miles)..makes me wonder now if it’s the TCV failing.. 🤔
I bought the 2024 Outback XT because of this issue (before the extended warranty). I figured if I was going to be on the hook eventually, I'd spend the money on the turbo version and just avoid the problem and get a faster car to enjoy. I always do whatever I can to keep my cars cool. Heat kills engines and transmissions. I add coolers and lower opening T-Stats. Now I have to see if I can run a cooler T-Stat in my new car.
Great Report. We're going to keep our 2017 forever. Subaru has got to quit this gadget obsession and just build reliable cars.
Need to make a MANUAL optional on ALL models... and ditch the damn CVT...
Keeping my 2017 Crosstrek as long as possible (100k miles so far)......I think Mr Subaru's Crosstrek has about 200k miles so far, original CVT (& he tows also)👍
Reliability-wise, the tail end of the gasoline automobile is looking pretty ugly.
@@Thisoldhiker
The nose of the EV's are 10x worse 🤦
@@Thisoldhikerby design. But what is also funny is the problems with EV and hybrids are no better than karma I guess
I had this failure while traveling state to state. I was lucky in that, mine failed open. But there was another symptom the you didn’t mention Mr. Subaru.
My Outback went into a type of limp mode, in that, I had next to zero power and no throttle response. However, I could floor it and slowly gain speed on flat land, even achieving highway speeds. But if I had to let off the gas or went up hill, I lost all momentum (speed) and if climbing a hill long enough, I would shed speed until I could only do 20mph.
I was completely baffled as to why so many and specific warning lights illuminated on the dash; it made no sense.
To add insult to injury, the dealership made us sign an arbitration agreement preventing us from joining the class action Lemmon law suite. So I’m stuck with this time bomb of a car.
I was on the verge of buying a 2024 Forrester tomorrow. This is changing my mind. I’m thinking of a Mazda CX 50 now.
Just had this replaced under warranty. Got it back on Friday, all warnings back on the following Tuesday! Able to drive this time, and took back to Subaru service. Hate to hear all these possible issues will keep occurring. 😢
If for some reason you are out of warranty, call SOA, they will goodwill it
On the positive side, I assume it is the TCV that allows my 2024 2.5L Crosstrek to provide heat to the cabin almost immediately after running the engine.
Subaru hasn't changed warranty terms since 2011 - 3/36 bumper to bumper, 5/60 powertrain
They have warranty extensions on specific items.
@@williamevans6522 I'm aware, but he wasn't sure what the FACTORY warranty that comes with a new vehicle is, without any one-off extensions such as for the TCV...
I was told by the dealership I got my car from that it was 3 year 30/33k mile drivetrain warranty
In my Cali Forester( 2017) there are several issues with extended terms;
...EXH manifold ( front catalytic)
150 000 mi.
... steering rack is extended( forgot the mileage)
... shift sensor/ ignition interlock- I think this goes out to ten years/ unlimited miles, if memory serves..
Maybe the NHTSA has more info?
@@williamevans6522 I don't really care. I was simply pointing out what warranty is on the vehicle when it's driven off the lot since he wasn't sure about the terms of THAT PARTICULAR COVERAGE when he recorded the video...
I experienced this problem yesterday. Eyesight, check engine, brake light and other lights came on. Car went into limp mode and stranded us 50 miles from home. Had to be towed to the dealer but because Subaru is aware of the problem they covered all costs. They originally told me it would be two weeks before they could work on it. I complained and they worked it in. Tow bill was $130 so I feel lucky. 2020 Outback is looking for a new home.
So glad to hear they went back on the Forester. Planning on a new one in 2 years. I hate plastic sh*t.
Ford got sued over plastic intakes in the crown vics in late 90s. Fix was a metal crossover. No excuse today.
The old coolant crossover pipe was the first and biggest failure on my '05 WRX STi. Warranty repair thankfully, but still hurt to see the engine pulled out of my new car at only 4000 miles. Glad I gave Subaru a 17 year break to see they made it worse. Hopefully the '23 FB25 revised part isn't failing as much as the '19-'21.
I bet some of it comes down to how easy it is to make one outta recycled materials. They're committed to the net-zero waste stuff. Absolute guess, and I don't know anything about anything.
Going through this issue now. Taking my 21 Outback in to dealer tomorrow after my mechanic told me about it and pulled up all paperwork for me to take to dealer. A royal pain for sure.
Not only is it going to be hanging over our heads, but after 15 years, they won't have to even keep parts.
I find it hard to believe that with modern prototype testing that they didn't already know that there were going to be problems. How else could they come out with a "fix" so soon?
this is the stuff you expect form Hyundai, Nissan, GM, VW, etc
Mine failed. My dealer pretty much covered up the fact that they were repairing it at no cost to me while they were doing a replacement of a radio amplifier which was covered under another warranty.
How about the flimsy windshields that easily crack. When is that issue going to be fixed?
You can look at forums or videos on any newer car and people will have the same complaint.
I have a 2015 forester when I turn into a parking spot or my driveway the rear tires lock and skip Please do a video on this problem
Fire the idiots involved with this change.
Let's throw the idiots in there who thought auto stop was a good idea....
@@deplorablelibertarianyou’d be throwing government officials in there, the car companies just add it to comply
Obvious anti-consumer planned obsolescence.
@@deplorablelibertarianthatll be management level lol...let the heads roll.
@@davewilson7602 if only we could fire those government officials.
I have a 2024 Crosstrek Limited with the 2.5. I immediately noticed that on cold days, it struggles to warm up and stay warm. I figured maybe a bad thermostat, but that’s extremely rare on a new car. Now I know why….
uh yup. our shop replaces 2 or 3 of these in a week on average.
And what's wrong with them? Have you analyzed?
We had a terrible experience with this. Our forester was down for several months with no loaner car available for most of it. after the repair was done my wife noticed a noise coming from the engine so she took it back to the dealer and they said it was leaf blowing around in the cowl. She took it back then and they found something loose in the intake getting ready to fall in the engine.
I just got the notice last week in the mail for my 2020 Forrester.
Have you personally seen any issues with the updated part? I have a 2023 Forester and am concerned I will eventually experience this.. Also is there anything that can be done to lessen the odds of this happening? i.e earlier coolant changes or a better grade of coolant with maybe an additive to prevent corrosion? How about a retrofit and swap it out for the 2025 design?....Also, I'd like to know what constitutes a "high failure rate"....5% , 10%, 50 %?