Maybe you should talk about some of Argerich's recent performances and analyze her techniques. It's amazing that she can get through such long concertos in her 80s! She always looks so relaxed, even when doing her famous octaves.
I saw Rubenstein with very moving public performances in his 90s. Argerich still does as good or better as in years past. I have been hanging around piano for many years, at 75 am playing the best piano of my life. Martha is amazing on a number of accounts. Fascinating person.
My teacher taught me the importance of rotation. It’s incredibly useful. My teacher was a pupil of a pupil of Franz Liszt. These great masters really knew the tricks. Try to teach this to a student and they take no notice..
Check out the Taubman method, they explain this very well. What you see Argerich doing here is, before leaping, she rotates in the opposite direction than that of the leap. By doing this rotation, the arm changes position so that the two notes of the leap feels closer and more connected. It's a faster and more economical way than moving the entire arm with the upper arm, which easily fatigues and are slow muscles. Forearm rotation is the only movement that are as quick as the fingers, so that's why pianists use it for almost all pianistic movements.
@@nicolaspachecoarango haha yes and she already played concerts when she was 5 or 6 🤣 and I can’t even coordinate right and left hand to play the same chords 👀
So much more, because Martha is one of the best performers of the last century: rotation, high wrist and forearm position to come down more on the keys, lateral forearm rotation; notice her strong knuckle bridge as a structural foundation from which to execute all movements, economy of movement in the whole body, very contained and focused only on the best movements to execute her score. No wasted energy or temper tantrums aimed at oneself. These are elements of technique which Craig breaks out individually, teaches on extensively. So, in a sense we are studying "with" Martha Argerich through Craig. One of the biggest issues in playing is getting thumb under and 3,4 over especially with scalar and arp passages. She does a pretty big supination in R hand ascending to prepare/position thumb. At fast tempi, it's harder to notice but in slow motion it's clear. Good knuckle bridge was a game changer for me. That structure supports everything else.
PS: Good piano playing is something one can enjoy well into seniority, 70s, 80s, 90s. Like good wine, it gets better with age, reason to maintain good health as far as one can control it. At 75 it is one of the seminal joys of my life, learning, growing, mastering....and I have had a rather eventful life. Fortunately, I "stumbled upon" Craig at the right time to re-vamp my technique; now feels unlimited.
Just taken up piano during covid lockdown after playing guitar professionally most my life. Loving it so much I kick myself for not playing it earlier. I’m 71
@@zaceriwata Welcome to the whacky, not so much as guitar but the same issues all round. Don't ya' just love musicians. You have a head start because musicianship is highly recommended. I was a vocalist most of my life and have now cobbled together 12-15 years of combined piano study. My stuff is mostly arranged jazz, though classically trained. Love it. If health holds up, 90s here we come. Thanks for your response. Just turned the Big 76.
Wine doesn't really get better with age in the great majority of cases. Red wine is probably the one that gets better with time, but that could also be achieved by producing good wine in the first place. What happens, instead, is that wine changes with time, but that isn't necessarily a good thing. The market of wine is also very mystified and full of weirdness, so it's hard to get any proper answer to queries.
OK Mr. Wetwix. I was, of course, citing red wine or "good" wine from the production, like we see at the Feast of Canaan. You have a place as long as you stay on the humorous side, not the critical. Keep it comin' but keep in on the good wine side. I wouldn't look for help in any marketing industry; wine is not exception. When I was in Texas, I went to the biggest liquor store imaginable; like a Super Walmart of nothing but spirits and doodads. They had "experts" shilling the stuff in every section. I fainted when they brought out the full lexicon of intoxicants. I dream of starting a piano school with techniques based on theatre of the absurd. Many of the moves are derived from the school of progressing dementia.@@tuluppampam
We notice how relaxed and quiet is her body with forearms, hands and fingers doing the work. Confidence based on the best techniques. Rotation is one of those techniques which you spend a lot of time explaining in your videos. I use it as needed. I started adopting your many "techniques" about 3 months ago, from the ground of posture up, from another online teacher on posture, then to your methods with shoulders, forearms, wrists, hands, fingers, good knuckle bridge re-oriented a lot in one stroke. Helping get everything in place; a strong basic, simple, reliable hand position from which to work. I have been focusing more on forearm lateral movement to get into position, rather than wrist twisting and finger/hand stretching. Simplifies other matters like fingering choices. It is working nicely, progress very fast at re-calibrating interval distances. I get there faster ready to do business on each position. These outside examples are very helpful, inspired new dimension in your teaching. When documenting authoritative research papers, the reader wants to know, "who says so besides you?" Argerich, Rubenstein, Paderewski? Not bad!!! Better than say it, they model it. Enjoyable, let's say "fun." I don't doubt that they all started a while back with "Three Blind Mice." Nice work, CW. Thanks for the inspirational outbursts in the last few days. Dave M
Gyorgy Sebok, an amazing pianist and once head of Indiana piano department, compared the fingers to spokes on a bicycle wheel being rotated on the keys. The masterclass is on youtube somewhere of the student struggling, playing the finale of the Chopin 2nd Somata with a finger-centric approach. Sebok said that he needed a better motor, the arm.
Yes, this is also taught by the Taubman in Taubman approach. First time I use this rotation technique is when someone on discord recommends me when I was learn fantaisie impromptu and Black keys etude back then because I'm struggling with the efficiency at octaves with such a high speed. It worked, because our 4th and pinky finger is somewhat suck (the muscle didn't allow all people to only separately control the pinky). Maybe the last, it's for esthetic point when playing.
That is soooo interesting! Could you also make a slow motion "rotation" video on rapid scales? (Chopin Prelude 16 or any rapid scale piece) with Argerich or other great virtuosos! I think it would be a very valuable information and a great lesson! Thanks so much for your wonderful videos!!!
I have a broken right hand around the pinky that never really healed properly n has started to slightly roll my hand up (pinky toward the thumb) limiting my mobility n grip when I play, practicing this technique might actually be an effective solution 🤔
If you can do something in a way where there will be less tension, always do that way for everything, even the simplest note is my idea. I use arm weight and rotation and wrist for simple 4 note phrase
That’s true. Having said that, this kind of technique should not be taught for less than intermediate/advanced pianists because it would otherwise encourage people not to strengthen their fingers first. The rotation aids, once you have the basic covered. Just my personal opinion.
@@dannygjk No misunderstanding. Just presenting the big picture. Everything is part of a kinetic chain where nothing moves in isolation. First Principles.
@@daniellu8282 He was making the point that the rotation results in more effective technique. If I remember correctly the term is pronation and/or supination, (during playing the piano in this case).
@@PIANO_LAB you can’t always use wrist rotation, it’s a waste of energy. There are indeed some passages where it’s warranted but in general narrowing it down to a singular technical solution is often naive.
Not sure what you mean considering that there's no such thing as 'wrist rotation'. I think what you mean is 'forearm rotation'. In any case, I never said that you're always going to use rotation to that degree but simply that it is an incredibly helpful thing. Also interestingly enough if you watch her she uses rotation even when she's not playing arpeggiated figures...
No, she doesn’t rotate her wrist to play these passages. She is pushing her fingers into the keys and balancing on her fingers separately which looks almost identical to wrist rotation. I’m assuming she’s doing that because using wrist rotation in certain passages is just a waste of energy.
Her whole hand is literally rolled towards the pinky. You can explain that ended up that way however you want. "Balancing on the fingers." Sure. Regardless, she rotated her forearm. There's no way for her hand to end up rolled like that without rotating her forearm, unless she dislocated/broke her bones.
I wonder if you know that Taubman got the idea of rotation from Tobias Matthay. Lol And as an interesting point of fact I did not learn about rotation from Taubman; I learned about rotation and then I discovered Taubman's teaching.
What's with the animosity? 1st off I never said it was my idea. 2nd of all Dorothy Taubman learned about rotation (and many other things) from Tobias Matthay so ultimately it's not Taubman's teaching but Matthay's. Do some research and you'll see that I'm correct.
I think what you mean is Pinky finger rotation? See again that she doesn't rotate thumb(to not disrupt the position of the hand) but rotates pinky finger becuase is shorter, only to get more wait with your whole arm rather than only a finger. Rotation shouldn't be in every finger all the time, it really takes strength out of the fingers. It you apply rotation to normal life it would be as if someone is just pushing you everywhere you go, or helping you walk. Fingers have to work properly, then wrist, arms and shoulders come in to help with the weight. I almost despise Taubmans method because of this, it promotes laziness, fingers don't seem to work in the videos of her classes, as if the wrist is quite surely pushing the fingers down, I think is not healthy or really helps to play the piano to a high level
As an electric bass player, you are now slapping the piano. Well done
Lol
We do this on certain arpeggios for double bass as well
loll
Maybe you should talk about some of Argerich's recent performances and analyze her techniques. It's amazing that she can get through such long concertos in her 80s! She always looks so relaxed, even when doing her famous octaves.
I saw Rubenstein with very moving public performances in his 90s. Argerich still does as good or better as in years past. I have been hanging around piano for many years, at 75 am playing the best piano of my life. Martha is amazing on a number of accounts. Fascinating person.
My teacher taught me the importance of rotation. It’s incredibly useful. My teacher was a pupil of a pupil of Franz Liszt. These great masters really knew the tricks. Try to teach this to a student and they take no notice..
Yessss thumb rotation is a game changer!!! Makes all playing feel great and create beautiful shapes
If only I’d been taught this way! ☹️
Check out the Taubman method, they explain this very well. What you see Argerich doing here is, before leaping, she rotates in the opposite direction than that of the leap. By doing this rotation, the arm changes position so that the two notes of the leap feels closer and more connected. It's a faster and more economical way than moving the entire arm with the upper arm, which easily fatigues and are slow muscles. Forearm rotation is the only movement that are as quick as the fingers, so that's why pianists use it for almost all pianistic movements.
Martha is at another level- she is not a pro she is just a terrific player I believe born with the propensity
Heard that she learned the whole Gaspard de la Nuit suite in ine week when she was a student of Gulda
@@nicolaspachecoarango haha yes and she already played concerts when she was 5 or 6 🤣 and I can’t even coordinate right and left hand to play the same chords 👀
@@francescoelia.marino I'm sure you can, with time and practice it all gest easier.
She IS a professional.
@@michaelsmith697 she is a master.
So much more, because Martha is one of the best performers of the last century: rotation, high wrist and forearm position to come down more on the keys, lateral forearm rotation; notice her strong knuckle bridge as a structural foundation from which to execute all movements, economy of movement in the whole body, very contained and focused only on the best movements to execute her score. No wasted energy or temper tantrums aimed at oneself.
These are elements of technique which Craig breaks out individually, teaches on extensively. So, in a sense we are studying "with" Martha Argerich through Craig. One of the biggest issues in playing is getting thumb under and 3,4 over especially with scalar and arp passages. She does a pretty big supination in R hand ascending to prepare/position thumb. At fast tempi, it's harder to notice but in slow motion it's clear.
Good knuckle bridge was a game changer for me. That structure supports everything else.
I always feel it that Martha plays very naturally and I try to achieve the same, very interesting comment :)
Love it keep doing this series pls
PS: Good piano playing is something one can enjoy well into seniority, 70s, 80s, 90s. Like good wine, it gets better with age, reason to maintain good health as far as one can control it. At 75 it is one of the seminal joys of my life, learning, growing, mastering....and I have had a rather eventful life. Fortunately, I "stumbled upon" Craig at the right time to re-vamp my technique; now feels unlimited.
Just taken up piano during covid lockdown after playing guitar professionally most my life.
Loving it so much I kick myself for not playing it earlier.
I’m 71
@@zaceriwata Welcome to the whacky, not so much as guitar but the same issues all round. Don't ya' just love musicians. You have a head start because musicianship is highly recommended. I was a vocalist most of my life and have now cobbled together 12-15 years of combined piano study. My stuff is mostly arranged jazz, though classically trained. Love it. If health holds up, 90s here we come. Thanks for your response. Just turned the Big 76.
@@zaceriwata Oh, watch Martha Argerich to see how all the best teachings are modeled. The teachers learned from her, not the other way around.
Wine doesn't really get better with age in the great majority of cases. Red wine is probably the one that gets better with time, but that could also be achieved by producing good wine in the first place.
What happens, instead, is that wine changes with time, but that isn't necessarily a good thing. The market of wine is also very mystified and full of weirdness, so it's hard to get any proper answer to queries.
OK Mr. Wetwix. I was, of course, citing red wine or "good" wine from the production, like we see at the Feast of Canaan. You have a place as long as you stay on the humorous side, not the critical. Keep it comin' but keep in on the good wine side. I wouldn't look for help in any marketing industry; wine is not exception. When I was in Texas, I went to the biggest liquor store imaginable; like a Super Walmart of nothing but spirits and doodads. They had "experts" shilling the stuff in every section. I fainted when they brought out the full lexicon of intoxicants. I dream of starting a piano school with techniques based on theatre of the absurd. Many of the moves are derived from the school of progressing dementia.@@tuluppampam
The piece is Ravel’s Jeux d’eau for anyone that’s curious
Taubmann approach 👍👍
I noticed that a lot in her playing and don’t play piano - so interesting thanks for explaining 😊
I like the way your mind works!
Subscribed.
We notice how relaxed and quiet is her body with forearms, hands and fingers doing the work. Confidence based on the best techniques.
Rotation is one of those techniques which you spend a lot of time explaining in your videos. I use it as needed.
I started adopting your many "techniques" about 3 months ago, from the ground of posture up, from another online teacher on posture, then to your methods with shoulders, forearms, wrists, hands, fingers, good knuckle bridge re-oriented a lot in one stroke. Helping get everything in place; a strong basic, simple, reliable hand position from which to work. I have been focusing more on forearm lateral movement to get into position, rather than wrist twisting and finger/hand stretching. Simplifies other matters like fingering choices. It is working nicely, progress very fast at re-calibrating interval distances. I get there faster ready to do business on each position.
These outside examples are very helpful, inspired new dimension in your teaching. When documenting authoritative research papers, the reader wants to know, "who says so besides you?" Argerich, Rubenstein, Paderewski? Not bad!!! Better than say it, they model it. Enjoyable, let's say "fun." I don't doubt that they all started a while back with "Three Blind Mice."
Nice work, CW. Thanks for the inspirational outbursts in the last few days.
Dave M
Gyorgy Sebok, an amazing pianist and once head of Indiana piano department, compared the fingers to spokes on a bicycle wheel being rotated on the keys. The masterclass is on youtube somewhere of the student struggling, playing the finale of the Chopin 2nd Somata with a finger-centric approach. Sebok said that he needed a better motor, the arm.
She's the queen of arpeggios
“I learned an amazing lesson today. It’s that I am right!” Lol
Leaping Liberace this is good study material! 😍👍🏽
Yes, this is also taught by the Taubman in Taubman approach. First time I use this rotation technique is when someone on discord recommends me when I was learn fantaisie impromptu and Black keys etude back then because I'm struggling with the efficiency at octaves with such a high speed. It worked, because our 4th and pinky finger is somewhat suck (the muscle didn't allow all people to only separately control the pinky). Maybe the last, it's for esthetic point when playing.
Argerich is a master!
Martha the goat fr
My first teacher studied with Matthay who wrote extensively on this subject. Good job!
Thanks for talking Abt this
Your videos are so informative, i love it
Thank you
That is soooo interesting! Could you also make a slow motion "rotation" video on rapid scales? (Chopin Prelude 16 or any rapid scale piece) with Argerich or other great virtuosos! I think it would be a very valuable information and a great lesson! Thanks so much for your wonderful videos!!!
Oh shit it's Jeux D'eau! Still one of the most impressively effortless performances I've ever seen.
Martha is a goddess.
Thank you very much, you helped me a lot♥️
Watching a pro play la Campanella also proves the point very clearly 💯
Love this!
Perfect 💯💯💯!!
Jeux d’eau
Yep thats the taubman piano technique
Interesting, I do that naturally as a self taught (not very good) pianist. It feels better than keeping the arm stiff and helps keep the wrist relaxed
Yeah! Highly recommend looking up Tobias Matthay. Huge advocate, and somewhat of a pioneer, of the usage of the arm in piano playing.
I have a broken right hand around the pinky that never really healed properly n has started to slightly roll my hand up (pinky toward the thumb) limiting my mobility n grip when I play, practicing this technique might actually be an effective solution 🤔
What are your thoughts on Taubman aproach?
If you can do something in a way where there will be less tension, always do that way for everything, even the simplest note is my idea. I use arm weight and rotation and wrist for simple 4 note phrase
I have to do this all the time because I have small hands and I think I heard she has too
That’s true. Having said that, this kind of technique should not be taught for less than intermediate/advanced pianists because it would otherwise encourage people not to strengthen their fingers first. The rotation aids, once you have the basic covered. Just my personal opinion.
The only type of motion your body can make is rotation. You can only pick the center of rotation and the magnitude.
You misunderstood him I think. 🤔
@@dannygjk No misunderstanding. Just presenting the big picture. Everything is part of a kinetic chain where nothing moves in isolation. First Principles.
@@daniellu8282 He was making the point that the rotation results in more effective technique. If I remember correctly the term is pronation and/or supination, (during playing the piano in this case).
Ok but that is jeux d'eau right?
I noticed it immediately as a guitarist. Looked like slapping form lol
But what performance?? What piece is she playing in that performance?
are pearl river pianos good?
Secret to Her longevity
Teach us to slap the piano in Horowitz technique lol
The same with Sokolov and Horowitz.
I was taught to do that when I was five.
Yeah, wrist rotation is piano 101
Can you teach me to play that fast?
How does this impact arm/hand/finger alignment?
I mean it’s one isolated example in a work that consists mainly of arpeggiated figures though..
You're right. I should have used an example from every piece of music in the classical rep. It's not like this is a RUclips short or anything... lol 😅
@@PIANO_LAB you can’t always use wrist rotation, it’s a waste of energy. There are indeed some passages where it’s warranted but in general narrowing it down to a singular technical solution is often naive.
Not sure what you mean considering that there's no such thing as 'wrist rotation'. I think what you mean is 'forearm rotation'. In any case, I never said that you're always going to use rotation to that degree but simply that it is an incredibly helpful thing. Also interestingly enough if you watch her she uses rotation even when she's not playing arpeggiated figures...
My teacher never taught me this.
Actually one video of a person playing that way does not prove that every pro pianist plays that way, so I'll have to take your world for it
No, she doesn’t rotate her wrist to play these passages. She is pushing her fingers into the keys and balancing on her fingers separately which looks almost identical to wrist rotation. I’m assuming she’s doing that because using wrist rotation in certain passages is just a waste of energy.
Her whole hand is literally rolled towards the pinky. You can explain that ended up that way however you want. "Balancing on the fingers." Sure. Regardless, she rotated her forearm. There's no way for her hand to end up rolled like that without rotating her forearm, unless she dislocated/broke her bones.
The less motion the better
Tanto les cuesta pronunciar "Argerich" a estos norteamericanos??
Dorothy taubman has entered the chat
Someone has been watching the taubman tapes...
I wonder if you know that Taubman got the idea of rotation from Tobias Matthay. Lol And as an interesting point of fact I did not learn about rotation from Taubman; I learned about rotation and then I discovered Taubman's teaching.
my hands naturally do this, cause my pinky is short
What if your forearms hurt just by doing simple rotations? Is that still a technique issue? 😂
Its like teaching how to swing a hammer and use your shoulders not your wrist. Its efficient, safer, and more effective
Ahh I saw there were 69 comments. Can't allow it. But wait... Why aren't you practicing?
a good practice will be Chopin wrong note etude LG chords
That's Taubman's teaching, don't pretend it's "your" idea
What's with the animosity? 1st off I never said it was my idea. 2nd of all Dorothy Taubman learned about rotation (and many other things) from Tobias Matthay so ultimately it's not Taubman's teaching but Matthay's. Do some research and you'll see that I'm correct.
I think what you mean is Pinky finger rotation? See again that she doesn't rotate thumb(to not disrupt the position of the hand) but rotates pinky finger becuase is shorter, only to get more wait with your whole arm rather than only a finger. Rotation shouldn't be in every finger all the time, it really takes strength out of the fingers. It you apply rotation to normal life it would be as if someone is just pushing you everywhere you go, or helping you walk. Fingers have to work properly, then wrist, arms and shoulders come in to help with the weight. I almost despise Taubmans method because of this, it promotes laziness, fingers don't seem to work in the videos of her classes, as if the wrist is quite surely pushing the fingers down, I think is not healthy or really helps to play the piano to a high level
😂😂
Pearl River... don't they make soy sauce? Pianos and soy sauce.
Hahahah this i chinese piano, from Guangzhou
....little 5 delivered consistently flat
Ngl I thought that was a dude at first