The Chopin Method: Piano lesson 1. Sitting and posture at the piano.
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- Опубликовано: 27 ноя 2022
- In this first lesson by The Chopin Method, the viewer will find the latest biomechanical research to address the correct posture at the piano.
#chopin #keyboard #pianotechnique #technique #exercises #classical #music #sitting #biomechanics #tension #muscles #sittingposture
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Thank you for your amazing work. I have a master degree in piano performance and I've had excellent teachers over the years who explained in other words what you are explaining in your videos... BUT... the visual of your videos combined with your very clear explanation is nothing less than a revelation for me... (I've watched all of your videos). I won't go into details, but it feels now as if I can play anything, that my body can find the right way to play difficult passages without fighting. Learning a new piece is also faster, because my body feels right from the start. Being scared of Chopin etudes is a thing of the past, I want to learn them all!!! You changed my life, nothing less. Thank you.
Comments like yours keep me going! Thank you.
Same!! I’ve been so scared of etudes but these videos make me so excited to unravel and problem solve them. Thank you @The Chopin Method!!
This is very inspiring !
This explains so much about why sometimes I feel like i have so much control while other times I feel like i can only play forte. Paying attention to my posture all the sudden makes me feel like I have so much control.
and it shows in the quality of the sound as well!
As a med student and a pianist, I can tell you about the "tenodesis grasp" which helps finger flexion by a slight wrist extension. That's also why you shouldn't sit too high on your stool.
Thank you Arthur!
Wait that is so interesting! Would you mind sharing what you mean? I’m not a med student but play piano and am so interested how that works :,)
Pure gold, I'll watch it later
Edit:
Now I know why I was feeling so much tension after a while playing, thanks for such amazing content!! Also, great voice!
Thank you Catwaii!
This channel is pure gold. Thank you for sharing this knowledge with us.
The video is made so professionally that it leaves no questions. Chapeau bass.
This episode convinced me to consider purchasing a stand for my midi keyboard so that I can practice proper positioning while learning to play the keyboard. I can't wait to see what I learn in the next episodes.
Thank you Krystian for your kind words. We keep working to help people become better pianists! Cheers!
Thank you, this is valuable to all pianists. You have created an educational resource that will last forever.
Thank you for your comment Ponlerd Piano!
Amazing video. I been struggling with posture while reading, learning and practicing new pieces for long hours. This will surely help the tension and pain on back and neck.
Glad it will help! Thank you!
Thank you sir for your service. You really are doing unique, significant work out of your degree. Beyond what the certificate says, your passion shines through to share with others through such personal creativity. Thank God for you. ❤
It is so nice to read your comment, dear friend. Best wishes to you!
wow thanks for sharing
I wish there was something like this on RUclips for how to sing
I love your videos keep it up!
Very kind of you to say so C Pyrus! I will!
best on youtube on this topic. thank you
The information on this channel is insane, thank you so much. Keep up the good work.
Thanks Jordan, will do!
you are the hero we need
Excellent video to combine the anatomy with piano playing.
Many thanks OTT!
Well done
Muchisimas Gracias Don Claudio. Este Canal y esta información es Oro puro y da paso a Pasos Gigantescos. Dios lo Bendiga.
Muchas gracias a Ud. Martín. Saludos!
Excellent video, thank you.
Thank you Jake! Appreciate your opinion!
Dziękuję!
Very interesting. Thank you very much for your work.
Thank you Anais!
You are a genius. Bravo👏
I am just combining disciplines and working hard to help others become better pianists. But thank you Muhammet!
Great video and channel. Please keep it up!
Thank you very much Christiane! I will!
Very interesting presentation!!!thank you
Glad you liked it!
An excellent explanation. You also included the cause-effect relationship. Congratulations and thank you. I have not come across a written method that succeeds in describing a narrative in this detail in a textual way. For this reason, unfortunately, there is a need for lessons in which the teacher observes the student from the outside. But the video is very, very explanatory..
Thank you very much fo your comment Magnificentako!
Thanks for sharing useful knowledge! It's help me to teach students piano .👍
So glad it helps you! That is the idea. Best wishes!
Gracias, tus videos son muy ilustrativos con la parte anatómica involucrada en la técnica del piano, que en muchos casos es ignorada a la hora de enseñar. Salud y éxitos!
Muchas gracias Jimmy!
Good
We do all realize that there are NO coincidences anywhere when the Piano (forte) is involved. What seems like handy coincidence is most definitely by design...just not sure if it was a conscious design choice or a subconscious one but still 😊
I have often had a similar question about keyboard design and the human hand. Adding also our European predilection for the dodecatonic scale.
These videos are fantastic! As a pianist, I try my best to get as confortable as possible during my playing; unfortunately, I suffer from a problem in my feet that causes both of them to lift only a little bit, regardless of how hard I try. Because of this, I can only operate the pedal without feeling pain or tension in an uncomfortably far position from the piano, making my arms less pararel
Have you considered placing a small block of wood under your feet to reduce tension and pain?
@@annep.1905 not actually, I only recently discovered this problem. Thanks, this might serve as a solution while I am still not doing physioterapy!
@@Henri.d.Olivoir You're welcome! I hope it helps!
@@annep.1905 thanks! :)
Thank you very much for your comment, Henrich! Happy Christmas! We sincerely hope that you will get better with physiotherapy.
great video :)
Thanks for the visit Carrut!
i have exactly what u said, tension on forearm, shoulder, and top of the back and as it's say, it's because of my deficient fingers 4 and 5 trainning (i only started piano 3 days ago)but it only happens on my right hand ( probably bc i'm right writter so don't use these 2 fingers + play a lot of fps game, so i used to use my finger 2 3 4 that's why i consider i have a decent finger control of my left hand, but bc of no trainning, it's super hard to move my finger 4 without the 5, plus when i put all my hand down on the table, with the left hand i'm able to raise my finger 4, all of it all of the phalanx, but it's not the case of my right hand, i can only raise the end of finger 4, but no other phanlax, even more the last phalax before joinning over finger, i try it super hard but it's like i don't have muscle respond. I guess it's bc in commun life you don't need this abilities so i put the effort on my forearm or another muscle so the muscle needed to raise highy the finger 4 have no power bc i never use it and train it.
Another thing, i can't spam with 2 fingers with my right hand, but i can do it slowy, so i need to train it, but for the strenght of finger 4 i have no idea, i have no respond muscle, how can i train it, from a certain height , it block i juste can't moove higher, it's not like spam, that i can do it slowly so how can i train this ?
Hello User-oy! Thank you for your question. The 4th finger training has more to do with "awareness" rather than force. You see, the 4th finger anatomy is as strong as any other finger. Cheers!
Thank you very much! (I'm a beginner at piano)
Delighted! I am very happy to see you here! In fact, I wish I was here a long time ago! Cheers!
Would have been funny to see Glenn Gould at the end of the video 😁
Thank you! I'm self taught, can't even read sheet music but currently on my third Chopin etude 😂 I really need videos like this. Does this apply to digital pianos as well? I don't have an acoustic
Sure it does!
It does for certain! Because electronic pianos are more handy, I have seen too many cases where the keyboard is placed too high or too low. Cheers!
Which etude are you learning btw??
How can anyone study Chopin etudes without knowing how to read
@@vincent-ataramanikoI did
Great video
I'm not a native english speaker and I'm not sure I understand the difference between holding and supporting weigth. Does supporting weight implying a certain degree of muscle contraction (not letting the hand collapse due to gravity) ? And so holding weight is used for the region with "total" relaxation ?
What about the dynamics ? Does this mean that the movement should start from the upper back when you're playing pianissimo to forte but should start from the lower back when playing fortissimo ?
Or is it because playing fortissimo needs a more ample movement from the forearm producing a force that goes backward toward the shoulder and the back ?
Thank you for your response
Hello Vulguse. Thanks for asking. Indeed, the finger 'support' weight (hand and forearm), whereas the upper muscles of the back and the shoulders 'hold' the weight of the upper limbs. The finger initiate the movement and the rest of the body follows. A pianissimo is in the realm of the fingers. A powerful fortissimo, because of the energy, generates a rebound of forces from the fingers to the upper body. This is why is much better to have the back muscles at rest in either case. Both, pianissimos and fortissimos sound much better!
Mas Chopin tocava usando o peso do braço ou mais articulado com auxílio do punho ?
Muito interessante os vídeos
Hello Onaip. There are several accounts on Chopin's piano posture. He would not use the weight of the arm unless, inevitably, playing at the extremes of the keyboard. In a correct piano posture, the weight of the hand, wrist and part of the forearm that is not hold by the humerus, is about 450 - 600 grams in adults. That would be enough to do up to ff (depending several other factors such as the piano itself). The wrist, quoting Chopin again, moves according to what the fingers do. Cheers!
The other day I got a warning by a teacher at my conservatory for raising the bench to much as it would cause it to break down.
That happened because the benches weren't being maintained, and I would oftenly tighten the bolts by hand and the screws with a little swiss knife. When I tried to give a reasoning as to why I would raise it so high, an ergonomic posture, relaxed forearms etc, she just repeated that I shouldn't do so, because it brakes it down.
All that well and done, I followed her advice to play from the "standard" bench height, but my forearms got sore about 30 minutes in, when I would be able to have 4 hour sessions easily. Is it just because I am not used to it? I get that raising it higher makes it more susceptible to some movement, wiggling etc, but shouldn't they just tighten em up frequently?
I am pretty new to the conservatory, had private lessons years some years ago, so I don't quite know how to best convey the reasoning for my actions. I guess I shouldn't max the bench height, but not raising at all?
I'm 22 years old and around 1,75 meters tall I could manage somehow, but what about the kids? They are short and small, aren't they putting unnecessary stress to the body, that could be resolved by just raising the bench? Or am I being unreasonable..?
Hello Cimbrito. Thank you for your observations and question. The ideal piano bench height can be considered from a scientific point of view. If the elbow articulation matches the height of the surface of the while keys, a 90º elbow angle is a reference for neutral weight at the finger. Naturally, the pianist will need to add or diminish mass while playing for expressive purposes, as well as to elongate from time to time. In summary, an elbow in horizontal line with the keyboard is a good reference.
This is amazing. I feel problems of tension in the following muscles: Anconeus, medial and lateral head of the triceps, short head of the biceps brachii, and anterior deltoid. This problem only goes away if i support the arm weight with my fingers, but if i do so, the forearm muscles are activated. How can i support my arm with the fingers without tensioning forearm muscles?
Hello. The forearms muscles should activate after the intrinsic muscles. Forearm muscles assist during the support stage. Please watch lesson 5 in this series. Thank you.
How can I practice that, I will have to rework all my bad routines, this isnt easy. What would you recommend at the start? Ive been playing for years and have this tension with me, especially in my right arm. Thanks a lot!
Hello Dominik. First thing is to understand what you are doing, and that is the purpose of this channel. So thank you for watching! Secondly, is to apply this knowledge slowly and very concentrated at the piano. Hopefully with the aid of an experienced teacher. If not, studying your own playing via video recordings, etc. Thirdly, and perhaps quite an important notion, beware of the tension that your day-to-day activities bring into your body. People that build muscular tension during non piano hours have a hard time working their technique.
Si può avere una versione in italiano 😯
Chopin did not use the arm, preferring the wrist action (octaves etc.). Old technique was weightless finger technique, and the hand was moved to serve the fingers, in theory
Hi Chopin Pianos. Thank you for commenting! Chopin mentioned that the finger is the beginning of all action, to be followed by the wrist, forearm, elbow, arm, etc. He did acknowledge that 8ves are to be played using the wrist, but taking care of the sound qualities. Other that that, Chopin had reservations about using the wrist as an active pivot to play a key. Best!
@@thechopinmethod7257 Hipkins wrote that, when observing Chopin play in England, he kept his arms by his side and played mostly with finger action. This is something that, with much training can be accomplished on old pianos. Many people were trained with the guide-mains (Kalkbrenner), which rested the wrist on a wooden bar, so as to completely eliminate arm participation, when doing exercises. Finger quickness and strength, with a light (weightless) hand, is at the heart of the old technique. Arm participation only came along later, maybe around 1860 or so, with larger pianos, and professional pianists, who had to play for large audiences.. Chopin usually played in small rooms, by comparison to today's pianists, and only rarely for 'public' events. The sound of the old technique was considered 'dry' by the standards of the late 1800's. These are all comments made by people who lived at the time, although I don't have all the references handy at this moment
5:29 I’m wondering whether the reason for both Liszt and Gould choosing to sit higher and lower respectively than the height of the piano seat is to utilise their body weight.
Hello Jeremy! Thank you for your comment. All we can say about other pianists' postures is that popularity is not the best indicator for great technique or great musicality. Cheers!
When I sit leaning my body forward a little it is enough for my lower back to start hurting. The posture I always use is the same, but without leaning my body. Any advice?
Hello and thank you for asking. There may be several causes for your lower back ache. From a piano physiology opinion, and discarding any condition, please observe that you are sitting at the front of the bench. The best articulation for tilting forward the upper body is the hip joints. The back just "tilts" forward a little keeping all its natural curvatures and flexibility. The reason to do this is to present the hand on the keyboard with less mass and no body blockage.
Very interesting
Can I ask you someting...
Are you pianist? or Physiotherapy? or ...
a researcher?
A Chopin quién le habrá enseñado la forma correcta de sentarse? Por favor leer entre líneas...
Se entendió perfectamente, estimada Camila. Gracias!
This information where comes from?
Hello Francisco. The information comes from extensive peer reviewed research, and of course, from Chopin's EMP and teaching accounts. References are usually added at the bottom of the screen. Cheers!
Artur rubinstein used to not hang his arm at all. He say quite away from the keyboard and have arms outstretched. Is that okay?
Arms should always hand unless one is hanging from the arms. For music control (e.g. Rubinstein in a studio) the fingers convey almost every musical message there is. In the concert hall, however, other body expressions are valued by a public in search of such input.
Thanks.@@thechopinmethod7257
Aso, I wanted to ask you about the 90 degree elbow position. There are so many pianists out there talking about playing without any static tension and yet they extend the elbow forward so that it forms 110 angle approx - so that already creates a static tension and I can easily feel that, playing long enough in that position. I'm a lifelong dancer and have a partial rotator cuff tear, at some point it becomes unbearable for me to play like that. What do you think is happening there, I mean, they're all hypocrites or what?
Hello Ibequa. Thank you for your question. The 90º at the elbow, naturally, is a referent position just like the 'natural' position of the hand. You will notice that when jumping between white keys and black keys, the elbow needs to follow the in-and-outs of the hand. In a timely passive way. So it is ok to see elbow angles beyond the 90º when playing complex passages. On the contrary, going consistently beyond 90º adds weight to the fingers and tenses many extra muscles.
Ottimo, Super, peccato per il mio povero inglese, ho dovuto tradurre tutto con Google translate!
Grazie. Nella configurazione offerta da YT sono 20 le lingue disponibili per i sostituti. L’italiano, ovviamente, è uno di questi. Best!
Hello, I'm not sure if I understand correctly, at 4:10 you say that you have to bend over to have an angle of 90°, but when you look at great pianists, you notice that most of them are upright and have a slightly more open angle of about 110° ?
Hello Taizl. Most of the movements one sees in popular modern pianists are intended to entertain the audience through the eyes as well. Most of these movements are completely unnecessary, if not downright pernicious for the music and for the body wellbeing. Chopin didn't move at all and always kept the elbows close to the body. Also, please consider that the referent posture shown in this video follow the laws of physics. E.g. If a pianist needs more weight in certain passages, he/she may opt to change the angle of the torso inwards or outwards. If you want to learn from real life piano postures, I recommend the likes of Brendel or Kempff. These were pianists that put music above the ego.
@@thechopinmethod7257 thank you for the recommendations
Great video, however not one of the french sentences in the begining mean anything
It is true that there are errors in both french sentences but french educated people can guess the meaning that was intented: "Thank you my friends! But it is YOU that I would like to listen to." (Pardon my frenglish 😁 )
@@SwahaChris Thank you both! My bad. No consolation on the fact that Chopin had an accent and made periodic mistakes! :)
who are you?
En français ?
Veuillez essayer d'utiliser des sous-titres. Le français y est l'une des 20 langues.