This video was amazing. The point you made about increasing profits by increasing output is absolutely correct. I run 20 ender 3s for my business and was going to phase out the i3 design for a Corexy machine and klipper. I realized klipper is the real reason for the speed increase and made the upgrade to all of my ender 3s and kept them. I print 100% faster now on klipper and has made me very happy business owner! I saved so much money by going to klipper. Never going back to Marlin
I hate it when people don’t reply! Great question!!! It’s great to see such a difference in speed however, what I want, is the highest quality at the highest speed and that might not be 100% faster but I’ll take 50% faster at a much higher quality…
huge thanks for this easy to understand showcase I'm a long time Marlin user and I've wanted to better understand other options I just watched video from a bearded bald guy who thinks he's the DJ Khaled of 3d printing and learned nothing, this video really cleared everything out
Great video! I am loving Klipper. It was awesome to see the realistic comparison with stock Marlin and Klipper with just default budget printer hardware. It is a question I have gotten quite a few times over the past year. This definitely took time to create both on the film and testing side. Awesome job brotha!
Thanks a lot, man - so nice you stopped by and left a comment! Yup, that was a lot of time for this video - also because the initial plan for this video was completely different to what I uploaded in the end :-)
Wonderful video sir. I love tinkering, so klipper has been a welcome addition. about 12 of my printers are on klipper, and most of them are cheap i3's. The value of a $49 open box ender 3 pro, with a microswiss metal hotend + a CHT high flow nozzle is insane. I've found with converting to pei sheets from glass beds, running wheel tension on the light side just enough for no play, and a little extra stepper current, they can print reliably at 5k accelerations with up to 1kg on the bed. Adding the CHT nozzle is the hands down best way to add a ton of extrusion performance with no extra machine modifications. Reliability has seemingly improved as well, I have a few klipper enders that run on the ragged edge of speed/accel with thousands of hours now with no needed maintenance besides bed cleaning. They've been going so long that they are missing so many current version Klipper/fluid features its almost annoying, however if it aint broke, don't fix it lmao
Freaking nice 10min overview of this OS. I didn't know about the other channels either. I thought Klipper was only for xy core systems. But know I might take a look at this Klipper OS for my Bed slinger as well. Excellent report👌. Keep it up pal 😎👍
Amazing video! This took a ton of time, and you nailed what matters. I love pushing my machines and klipper allows for some fun prints. I was able to get the KP3S printing reasonably at 10k accel, with an H2 and linear railed Z
Another key thing that increases productivity, that isn't directly related to how fast the machine can operate, is having a web accessible UI. If you're printing a lot, the time saved from not having to move files to and from physical storage media adds up.
Great video, very useful to see the what to expect when upgrading. The new Marlin supports input shaping, would be interesting to see how it stacks up against Klipper as well.
Thank you for sharing. Well presented, enguaging ,enjoyable to watch. Learned a bunch about Firmware differences today. Will look into Klipper for my next printer. Worth watching
Klipper is my go to firmware any time I build a new machine. The ability to update the config over WiFi without having to deal with Arduino is so nice. Great video. Definitely justifies putting Klipper on cheap or old machines
One of the few videos that correctly calls all those printers what they really are - Ender clones =) Like for me just for that. All other info is on point as well.
This was a great video! You exactly pointed out what I was experiencing the last week. I got an ender 3 v2 with direct drive conversion, 2 big radial part cooling fans and a dragonfly bms hotend. klipper improved my print time about 100%. Its really crazy seeing this ender 3 move at such accelerations and speeds. didnt wanna buy a pi for too much money, so I put PI OS into a VM on my laptop and its working great. it was some work, getting input shaping right without the sensor etc but it was absolutly worth it. klipper is so much better. I also used my old galaxy s6 as a screen with KlipperScreen.
@@alejandroperez5368 I cannot tell you what Iam printing(hence its illegal), but I can ensure you that the parts are very functional and working under high stress.
Great video, definitely a strong and compelling reason to try klipper.. Im discovering though that you can tweak firmware and hardware all you want its the slicer that makes or breaks your print.. configuration for specific filaments and profiles now THAT is a reading/comprehension nightmare and also, where I have the most difficulty. Unfortunately I learn more from seeing than reading
Honestly a lovely, informative video. Keep doing what you're doing, I couldn't help but feel suprised your subs don't match quality of information I was given with this video.
Nice comparative. I would like see in more deepth about the bed slinger accelerations vs printer mods. I've seen people talking about how stiffer springs, changing the tension on the belts and reinforcing the frame have changed the values but hardly anyone has shown the results.
I have been shopping for a new 3D printer to replace my reliable workhorse bed slinger. I assumed I'd get a Creality K1 Max for the improved print quality, speed increase (maybe 2X as opposed to the 12X from Creality marketing), and a return to an enclosed machine to print ABS again. As of a few days ago, after doing more research, I'm now inclined to stay with a bed slinger but get a Klipper machine. The bed slingers are inexpensive, reliable, easy to use and easy to maintain. Klipper has greatly improved them, even though our focus on Klipper has been on core XY machines. My only regret would be not being able to print in ABS, but I'll convert my ABS designs to PETG to print on a non-enclosed bed slinger, or maybe I'll make an enclosure that I can use with a bed slinger when I want to print ABS. I'm currently waiting on a good Klipper bed slinger with a 300 mm cube build volume. It seemed inevitable, and I heard a rumor that one is currently being evaluated by a RUclips reviewer.
@@Nitram_3d Yeah. I waited all too long to do it after hearing bad experiences with the old fat throat style and PLA. But I didn't get any real flow benefits. PA & quality improvement, unlocking new materials, and convenience of not having to fight with PTFE are all excellent tho!
9:12 "On the other hand, reading, trying, and succeeding with new topics is fun in the end right?" I was almost expecting a "that's why I love Curiosity Stream" sponsorship after that sentence 🤣💀
You mentioned that you calibrate minimum layer time/cooling and minimum print speed. I would be interested in the procedure as I tried to wrap my head around this already but have no idea for a systematic approach. Input shaping and pressure advance are calibrated, acceleration and square corner velocity are tuned. The next step is to optimize cooling to improve print time for small parts. By the way I'm using a modded ender 3 (CHT nozzle) so flow rate is the least of my problems 😅
You basically have to print models consecutively increasing/decreasing the settings you are tuning on each run, and going with the lowest/highest you find quality acceptable
I use the Benchy Hull without infill and top solid for the layer time and something small and potinted for minimum speed (iteratively). But I also still don't have a (good) idea for systematic approach other than that :/
Well you were certainly correct we were going to see Klipper on more and more printers out of the box! The gains we see are even more impressive than you got in this video as well.
Nice video, very good research and information, you condensed dozens of hours of work in just ten minutes. The visual quality and resolution of the video shots are superb (e.g. 4:46). Thanks!
Your artillery hornet is printing mirrored on the X axis. You could set the homing direction to "max" instead of "min", just like the voron switchwire.
Thanks a lot and congrats: You found one of the easter eggs in this video :-) Just kidding: I realized it only when doing the editing of that video :-)
Hi würdest du klipper bei ein Turnigy Fabrikator empfehlen? Es hat arduino mega 2560 mit ramps 1.4 als Mainboard. Und hat 12V psu falls das eine Rolle spielt. Würde mich sehr über Rückmeldung freuen! LG aus dem Bundesland Österreich @@247printing
@@247printinghi würdest du klipper auf dem alten Drucker Turnigy Fabrikator (Arduino mega 2560 ramps 1.4 als Mainboard und 12v netzteil). Bisschen Kontext: Hab da das aktuellste marlin drauf laufen und hab es gemodded damit ich ein pei druckbett haben kann. Der Drucker ist uralt aber schneller als mein neuer. Und ich habe einen alten thin Client (AMD E450) aus Windows 7 Zeiten rumliegen der extrem schlecht ist mit einem niedrigeren single core benchmarkwert als raspberry pi. Linux mit Desktop läuft eher langsam aber ohne Desktop Environment mit mehr RAM könnte ein Versuch wert sein. Mir geht's hauptsächlich darum, ob der Drucker an sich klipper betreiben kann oder eher keine gute Idee? Das mit dem thin Client wäre ein Versuch dem Gerät neues Leben einzuhauchen Lg
We're discovering that even single board printers can manage input shaping and higher speeds, since new 32-bit boards have much more power than is utilized by Marlin. The extra computation uses a bit more energy, but not as much as tethering a Raspberry Pi. So, older printers can benefit greatly from a firmware upgrade with no change to the hardware. Upcoming versions of Marlin will include more advanced time-based motion and input shaping contributed by Ulendo, providing even better results with no change in electronics. So the future is looking bright and speedy for all legacy printers!
While Klipper can of course can not change the hardware limitations of your printer, like max volumetric flow and cooling, with klipper you actually can now make use of already existing good solutions. For example a Bondtech CHT boost up your volumetric flow without any further hardware modification. Just a change of nozzle. Also there is a cool cooling solution called "Berd-Air" to improve cooling. With upgrading to Klipper the next upgrades follow eventually...
Excellent video! I agree! the marketing for these new 3D printers are misleading, yes the print head moves faster but you have to lower the layer height to compensate. I can actually print faster with a slower moving print head and my usual layer heights. The input shaping with the accelerometer could be game changing I will definitely explore this in the future.
I'm not as driven by speed for klipper as I am tired of making changes, compiling code, said compiling failing, fixing errors, recompiling, flashing printer, testing out changes, making more changes, recompiling code... you get the idea. Klipper allows for rapid changes and even allows for input shaping and pressure advance settings on the fly, even without the bits and bods to do it 100% correctly. Marlin just isn't that quick and dirty. You can do it, but the latest flavor of Marlin seems to have a lot more checks and balances built in, most of which won't cause any damage to your printer. I can't tell you how many times I've had compiling fail, cryptic error messages just to take out changes to make it compile. I have an Ender 3 that I have been messing with Klipper on and I'm looking at my other running printers just because I like being able to change Klipper, test it out, change it back if I don't like the results, all in about the time it takes to copy firmware to an sd card...not true, but you get the idea.
Absolutely, that's one of the strongest pros of Klipper also for me. When I started with FDM and "printers as projects" back in 2017 I chose Smoothieware, because the processes involved with Marlin drove me insane.
For some reason I thought that klipper was something meant for high end printers...Well that was until I learned about macros. It was delightfully easy and simple to install and get running.
There is a pretty good fan duct mod on thingyverse for the hornet that replaces the entire head shell and directs the air flow directly on the very tip of the extruder.
I use the Benchy Hull without infill and top solid for the layer time and something small and potinted for minimum speed (iteratively). But I also still don't have a (good) idea for systematic approach other than that :/ As soon as I have, there might be a video.
Thank you! Didn’t find a perfect generic procedure for that, but I use sth pointed for min print speed and something fast with overhangs for layer time (hull of a benchy with low infill)
Dear God, thats grazy speed up. My long term project is using klipper, will be interesting to see how self designed 3d printer will perform against stock factory made ones.
Great video. I've been thinking about making the switch to Klipper. Tired of recompiling to add or remove a feature... I also like to go fast. if you aint first yer last.
This was a VERY informative video, thank you... I just bought an Ender 3 V2 Neo on sale and its my first printer. As a rookie in this, what do you recomend me ? Not install anything extra and use the printer as is, install Octoprint, Klipper or OctoKlipper ?
It's really bad that klipper still does not allow separate x and y accelerations even with 2 separately developed pull requests and numerous discussions on github, discourse, reddit, discord, etc. Lately they also broke the limited_cartesian code that Piezo developed, so I've gone back to marlin. If I can get 15k on X and 8k on Y and I'm printing a thin object (ex. airfoil), I'll take the speed boost over Klipper features every time.
I have tuned input shaper and linear advance inside marlin and I have been able to increase my acceleration to 3000 from 600 and double the print speed, without loss of quality
@@247printing i been looking at pi alternatives since i commented. i found a few great choices. between $40 - $90. the CB1 looks good except 1GB ram isn't enough for a modern computer. i want 4GB minimum. since its not something you can upgrade later if you need to like a desktop i cant willingly buy a SBC with 1GB ram. Ram is essential to performance. too little and it bogs down everything. too much and you just have wiggle room. no frustration there. i been waiting so long to get a CM4 with 8gb ram and wifi but its been scalped to death. the brand is basically dead at this point. but i hope it can recover.
I have a small 3D printing business with a few Ender 3 V2s, by changing to klipper, replacing to mosquito hotends / phaetus and upgrading cooling Im printing 6x faster with better quality prints then Marlin ever gave me, on my bowden tube I print on 300mm/s 7k accelration flawless prints, on my DD I print on 200mm/s and 4.5k accel, klipper just blew my mind!
Thank you very much! You inspired me to switch from Marlin to Klipper on my Artillery Hornet. I also tuned input shaping using the ADXL345 sensor obtaining amazing results on the ringing tower model! However I am now finding some difficulties on bringing high speed onto "normal" prints, despite no problems on the ringing tower. I am currently trying to print at around 90 mm/s and max accel set to 3000 with poor results (usually, some of the final layers won't extrude anymore or extrude badly with visible holes). Do you, by any chance, remember which settings you used for speed/acceleration on the hornet? Thank a lot and keep doing that!!
What really matters is whether you can use the part just printed! How can input shaping speed up the print when it slows down the start and stop inertia?
Yup, it's 2024 and we're printing perfectly usable parts at high quality 2-4 times faster thanks to input shaping which is used widely since 2019. Welcome to the future ;-) "(...) slows down the start and stop inertia?" Please elaborate on this, that's not the case.
i have a question so i have my first printer but i need to know will this void my warranty and if so is it worth voiding my warranty because if this printer break i can't afford to get a new one
For acceleration bound moves, time cost of the move doesn't scale inversely with acceleration but inversely with the square root of acceleration. You need 4x the acceleration to halve print time. (This isn't quite true because moves start at nonzero junction velocity, but it's still close.) This is why the giant boosts to acceleration, while they help a lot, don't give you the proportional time saving you might expect.
Yup, simple math for that, when isolating the gains by increased acceleration for certain geometries. As it is complex as a whole and concerning realistic/different geometries, it's more of a statistical topic. In this case here we had 6x to 8x the acceleration, up to doubled the print speed and carefully optimized retracts/z-moves in comparison to the baseline and managed achieve a max of half of the print time.
@@247printing Yep, the gains will be less if you're already reaching cruise at the lower accel or somewhere in between. Only if you can increase max speed by the square root of the accel factor at the same time would you expect the full scaling, and that's still not accounting for retraction times.
This is a great Video and shows how I can squeeze some more oomph out of my aging Biqu B1. Would you recommend just getting it hooked up to a Sonic Pad?
Interesante comparativa. lo que no entiendo es porque no pasar directamente esos parametros al firmware original. si das mas aceleracion al la maquina seguro que vas a ir mas rapido.
Is there any good documentation/video out there describing how to find minimum layer time/print speeds? Because it's the biggest issue I struggle with...
You found a weak point here: I just do it this way (that's the third video I used this method), but I never explained exactly how I do it and why it works. I don't know of any source that explains it. My simple method (that works so far): Print something pointed for min. print speed and print something fast with overhangs for min layer time (Benchy hull without infill). There might definitely be better or cleverer ways for that...
Actually, even with a bigger nozzle, cooling still is the issue on many prints. Also it depends on the objects, if it is OK to use a bigger nozzle. On the other hand, klipper might some upgrades profiable: To increase flow of the hotend, just use a bondtech cht nozzle. For cooling, you might try Berd Air. Two easy and cheap upgrades which can push the limits of your printer a lot
@@alejandroperez5368 More plastic in the same time needs more air in the same time to get the same(!) cooling! If you print faster, the airflow from the part cooler on the printhead touches the part a shorter time - so you have to increase airflow to get the same(!) cooling. You can increase airflow on the printhead (Berd Air) or an auxilary fan (like the X1 carbon does). With 4-times the speed (or to phrase it more precise: 1/4th overall printtime) you need 4-times of airflow for the same(!) cooling.
Great tutorial/ comparison dude, for me, marlin gets the job done, i think that has a lot more features, plus it's the main board and that's it, of course, for speed printing Klipper for now is unrivaled, on that side... I run my Anet e10 with linear advance at 3k accel and 75-100mm/s average speed in Prusa slicer with pretty much no ringing, no lost steps, and great print quality, but, that's just me, last, watch out for the arm CPUs, they are getting REALLY fast
It would be great to see what the performance increase is when a couple more cooling fans are installed and the main speed limitation becomes the fundamental fact that a bed slinger is a bed slinger and has to move the bed around a lot more than other printer types.
I have a Creality Sonic Pad on the way. I’m going to use it on my Ender-3 S1 Plus. I have spare Raspberry pi’s and might set one up with Klipper for my Ender-3 Pro. You can also see a review on that FLSUN delta printer on Aurora Tech’s channel. This very young girl really knows her stuff.
Danke Sebastian freut mich sehr! RUclips videos dürfen schon auch ein bisschen pushen oder? Voice over ist aber viel zu langsam gesprochen stellte ich grad fest mit bisschen Abstand 😅
I still haven't reached the point where my Klipper prints are to the same quality as my stock prints, but I'm determined to get everything dialed in because I do believe in the promise of what it brings to the table.
i made my own printer with wood and scrap i found around i installed marlin on a ramps 1.4 with arduino mega it works fine and i got the settings dialed in so good , my printer is better than an out of the bow ender 3 klipper is too complicated and the hardware is expensive to run it , it also takes alot of time to set up so imma skip until slicer compatibility forces me to change
OK after reading numerous test about setting up Klipper for Printers I do not own, FINALLY a video on just howe good is the end result. I heard 2X faster, limited by cooling. Then I thought about that, WAIT. A bigger Fan and custom cooling ducts can ne bought and printed for next to Cheap. What stopped you from going the extra 10 yards, 3 meters whatever to actually chase the best you can get from Klipper with a little help. I am all for the new science the is allowed to come into play. But why hangchuff it by saying you can't change anything else. In my case I have a 3 year old CR 10S Pro V1 with upgrades, Pi 4 with Octoprint, Microswiss DD and Hot end, BL Touch, Z azis Struts and Garolite Bed. OK Now I am still printing at 60 mm/s and I still mess up layer one and my parts take forever to complete. So $140 to add Pad 7, My support guy says 2 ours for $100 he can set up right. Then we get into the what's next: Hotter and Faster Hot end, Better part cooling, Linear Rails X & Y No that adds up yes but you can space it out and say in 6 months have a better machine. How much better, frequency of layer 1 failures, Speed to print, Quality of finished part how many rejects, reprints? I even get my Corvette tuned by a specialist just to get a few extra Horsepowers And he costs $500. So why not Invest in the old boy, I Like it and if it was more reliable, cleaner prints and faster That is a big plus. What do you think? 1st Pad 7, 2nd Cooliing fan and duct, 3rd Faster Hot End, 4th Linear rails. 1st $240 with tune, 2nd $60, 3rd $200 guess, 4th $200 estimate. So $520 for the whole mess and what will you have. Your 3 year old Bed Slinger now 4 years old Printing twice as fast if not more, Zero failed Prints, Never need to reprint, 2 parts in the time of one before. Less waste in material and time. Only Option is $1,000 or more and that would be a Core XY with an enclosure. Unless you can lighten the bed on the 10S Pro you are limited, But with the technology Klipper brings to the printer You are not leaving much behind. My thoughts, what are yours???
I'd call it "firmware" (w quotation marks) - because after applying it to your printer board/electronic became just "dumb" interface to motors/heaters/sensors. All the real work/math/logic is then made in the attached raspberry or pc. Which is the clever way how it became fast (and more precise). And the nice thing is - you can get same result with cheap boards. No need of such fancy luxury electronic boards. If you build your own printer - just grab cheapest one with drivers of your liking and you are good to go - use money for better rails/motors... Even on my elderly first gen CR10 it is difference as day and night. I've migrated to klipper like 2yrs ago and never going back. Nice video!
my ender 3 with marlin was very slow + my bl touch wont work even with the correct firmware + the printer and the ui just became slow and unresponsive when changing accel to 2000-5000 + i had to always manually change the accel because changing it in cura didnt work and now with klipper its just faster and higher quality + my bl touch works perfectly + the ui is way better overall. klipper is better if you can install it. if you cant then marlin is okay for slower prints
Recently switched to Klipper on my Artillery Sidewinder X2 and I'm loving it so far. Do you have a process you use to calibrate your minimum layer time, maybe a gcode file or cura script you use?
@@pietrom2642 The volcano hotend of the X2 can comfortable extrude a flow of 25mm/s^3. You could conceivably crank your speed up to 350mm/s with a 0.4 nozzle at 0.2m layer height. I usually print at around 200mm/s with 3K acceleration, but I'm going to play with those numbers more when I get input shaper set up.
I myself have Klipper running on 6 of my printers. I would be curious to know if you would be willing to share your printer.cfg file for your Fokoos, to see how it compares to the one I setup and am running. Also wanted to say excellent video by the way comparing Klipper to the stock firmware's of these machine's.
Thank you for helping me to understand just how much of a boost I can really receive from moving to klipper. Are you planning a video on the Klipper pads that are showing up? and what about the Y axes when using it on a bedslinger? I saw the accelerometer on the X axes. How does that work?
Awesome comparison, Thanks, would you be willing to share the config for the hornet machine. I already flashed mine . but would benefit immensely from you knowledge Thanks
great video ! love it, I run klipper too on a ender 3 and it's a beast ! I do print with esun pla+ with a orbiter 2.0 DD and a E3Dv6 but I've got a lot of small stringing, do you have printing seting to avoid thoses ? like retraction speed or retraction lenght ? thanks a lot !
This video was amazing. The point you made about increasing profits by increasing output is absolutely correct. I run 20 ender 3s for my business and was going to phase out the i3 design for a Corexy machine and klipper. I realized klipper is the real reason for the speed increase and made the upgrade to all of my ender 3s and kept them. I print 100% faster now on klipper and has made me very happy business owner! I saved so much money by going to klipper. Never going back to Marlin
Thank you SO much!!
Did the quality also increase? I'm looking to convert one of my enders.
I hate it when people don’t reply! Great question!!! It’s great to see such a difference in speed however, what I want, is the highest quality at the highest speed and that might not be 100% faster but I’ll take 50% faster at a much higher quality…
Marlin 2.1.2 has experimental input shaping, so never say never :)
Nice. Except your parts are now WEAKER. As printing faster requires more cooling = poorer layer adhesion.
huge thanks for this easy to understand showcase
I'm a long time Marlin user and I've wanted to better understand other options
I just watched video from a bearded bald guy who thinks he's the DJ Khaled of 3d printing and learned nothing, this video really cleared everything out
Great video! I am loving Klipper. It was awesome to see the realistic comparison with stock Marlin and Klipper with just default budget printer hardware. It is a question I have gotten quite a few times over the past year. This definitely took time to create both on the film and testing side. Awesome job brotha!
Thanks a lot, man - so nice you stopped by and left a comment! Yup, that was a lot of time for this video - also because the initial plan for this video was completely different to what I uploaded in the end :-)
Wonderful video sir.
I love tinkering, so klipper has been a welcome addition. about 12 of my printers are on klipper, and most of them are cheap i3's.
The value of a $49 open box ender 3 pro, with a microswiss metal hotend + a CHT high flow nozzle is insane. I've found with converting to pei sheets from glass beds, running wheel tension on the light side just enough for no play, and a little extra stepper current, they can print reliably at 5k accelerations with up to 1kg on the bed. Adding the CHT nozzle is the hands down best way to add a ton of extrusion performance with no extra machine modifications.
Reliability has seemingly improved as well, I have a few klipper enders that run on the ragged edge of speed/accel with thousands of hours now with no needed maintenance besides bed cleaning. They've been going so long that they are missing so many current version Klipper/fluid features its almost annoying, however if it aint broke, don't fix it lmao
I had planned to do some similar tests with my printer (Fokoos Odin-5 F3) but you've already done all the hard work. Thank you, great summary!
Thank you so much Bart! I'll enjoy two nice Leberkäse-Semmels with your gift :-)
Just ordered a Neptune 4 Pro and have been thinking about upgrading my Vyper to Klipper for over a year, this has convinced me, liked and subbed :)
Started using Klipper because I built a Voron, but now having Klipper on a printer is a must for me
OK now I have to get Klipper 😆 two times faster is really mind blowing and seems worth the effort.
Freaking nice 10min overview of this OS. I didn't know about the other channels either. I thought Klipper was only for xy core systems. But know I might take a look at this Klipper OS for my Bed slinger as well. Excellent report👌. Keep it up pal 😎👍
Great video. I am just currently setting up Klipper on my voron 0 and this video just pushed my motivation 💪
Amazing video! This took a ton of time, and you nailed what matters. I love pushing my machines and klipper allows for some fun prints. I was able to get the KP3S printing reasonably at 10k accel, with an H2 and linear railed Z
Thank you so much!
Another key thing that increases productivity, that isn't directly related to how fast the machine can operate, is having a web accessible UI. If you're printing a lot, the time saved from not having to move files to and from physical storage media adds up.
nice video brother ! well done. Klipper FTW !!
Thanks a lot Simon! So nice you stopped by. Congrats to 20k btw. - very well deserved!
@@247printing i watch every video you make man. You are my favorite voice on youtube haha
love the music (please do not switch music genre), the editing, the narration, the bloopers, and the entire channel.
Thanks a lot! I am very happy you like it!
Great video, you convinced me as a 3D printing newbie to deepdive into klipper right now and then install it on my Ender 3 Pro! :D
Thanks and yes: Do it. It's still worth it to understand Klipper! I also did it on an Ender 3 pro and the speed/quality upgrade is awesome!
Great video, very useful to see the what to expect when upgrading. The new Marlin supports input shaping, would be interesting to see how it stacks up against Klipper as well.
Thank you for sharing. Well presented, enguaging ,enjoyable to watch. Learned a bunch about Firmware differences today. Will look into Klipper for my next printer. Worth watching
Wonderful Video for the Starters
Thank you very much, mate!
Klipper is my go to firmware any time I build a new machine. The ability to update the config over WiFi without having to deal with Arduino is so nice. Great video. Definitely justifies putting Klipper on cheap or old machines
One of the few videos that correctly calls all those printers what they really are - Ender clones =)
Like for me just for that. All other info is on point as well.
you do realise the ender is itself a clone?
Awesome video!
Cheers for summarizing so much!
Thanks a lot Haensel (und Gretel auch)!
This was a great video! You exactly pointed out what I was experiencing the last week. I got an ender 3 v2 with direct drive conversion, 2 big radial part cooling fans and a dragonfly bms hotend. klipper improved my print time about 100%. Its really crazy seeing this ender 3 move at such accelerations and speeds. didnt wanna buy a pi for too much money, so I put PI OS into a VM on my laptop and its working great. it was some work, getting input shaping right without the sensor etc but it was absolutly worth it. klipper is so much better. I also used my old galaxy s6 as a screen with KlipperScreen.
You may be printing twice as fast, but your parts are also weaker. Do you print functional parts or just decorative stuff?
@@alejandroperez5368 I cannot tell you what Iam printing(hence its illegal), but I can ensure you that the parts are very functional and working under high stress.
@@gehtsienixan4442 I command you to tell me what it is you're printing. Dildos ?
Great video, definitely a strong and compelling reason to try klipper.. Im discovering though that you can tweak firmware and hardware all you want its the slicer that makes or breaks your print.. configuration for specific filaments and profiles now THAT is a reading/comprehension nightmare and also, where I have the most difficulty. Unfortunately I learn more from seeing than reading
Honestly a lovely, informative video. Keep doing what you're doing, I couldn't help but feel suprised your subs don't match quality of information I was given with this video.
Wow, thank you so much - I had goosebumps reading this :-)
Nice comparative. I would like see in more deepth about the bed slinger accelerations vs printer mods. I've seen people talking about how stiffer springs, changing the tension on the belts and reinforcing the frame have changed the values but hardly anyone has shown the results.
You can watch some of my videos at high acceleration without any mods to the Ender 3 motion system.
That would be very interesting indeed!
Super interesting! Thanks for the analysis. Oh goodness, one more rabbit hole to go down. There are too many in this hobby/industry!
Well made video! I'm on the fence but will likely take a plunge into Klipper in the near future.
very good (and useful) comparison!
I have been shopping for a new 3D printer to replace my reliable workhorse bed slinger. I assumed I'd get a Creality K1 Max for the improved print quality, speed increase (maybe 2X as opposed to the 12X from Creality marketing), and a return to an enclosed machine to print ABS again. As of a few days ago, after doing more research, I'm now inclined to stay with a bed slinger but get a Klipper machine. The bed slingers are inexpensive, reliable, easy to use and easy to maintain. Klipper has greatly improved them, even though our focus on Klipper has been on core XY machines. My only regret would be not being able to print in ABS, but I'll convert my ABS designs to PETG to print on a non-enclosed bed slinger, or maybe I'll make an enclosure that I can use with a bed slinger when I want to print ABS. I'm currently waiting on a good Klipper bed slinger with a 300 mm cube build volume. It seemed inevitable, and I heard a rumor that one is currently being evaluated by a RUclips reviewer.
Awesome video.... How much would the printers gain on all metal heatbreaks... Higher flow less retract and crisper extrusions...
First... ;)
And how about tpu? I have no luck with tpu on my all metal hotends
Thanks a lot, Nitram! Let's see if I'll make another video on those bed slingers. Some (little) upgrades might make a big difference...
Or just CHT - the highest bang for buck (ntm effort) of any printer upgrade.
@@daliasprints9798 sure but .. the all metal heatbreak is in my book a must have upgrade
@@Nitram_3d Yeah. I waited all too long to do it after hearing bad experiences with the old fat throat style and PLA. But I didn't get any real flow benefits. PA & quality improvement, unlocking new materials, and convenience of not having to fight with PTFE are all excellent tho!
9:12 "On the other hand, reading, trying, and succeeding with new topics is fun in the end right?"
I was almost expecting a "that's why I love Curiosity Stream" sponsorship after that sentence 🤣💀
You mentioned that you calibrate minimum layer time/cooling and minimum print speed.
I would be interested in the procedure as I tried to wrap my head around this already but have no idea for a systematic approach.
Input shaping and pressure advance are calibrated, acceleration and square corner velocity are tuned. The next step is to optimize cooling to improve print time for small parts.
By the way I'm using a modded ender 3 (CHT nozzle) so flow rate is the least of my problems 😅
You basically have to print models consecutively increasing/decreasing the settings you are tuning on each run, and going with the lowest/highest you find quality acceptable
I use the Benchy Hull without infill and top solid for the layer time and something small and potinted for minimum speed (iteratively). But I also still don't have a (good) idea for systematic approach other than that :/
Well you were certainly correct we were going to see Klipper on more and more printers out of the box! The gains we see are even more impressive than you got in this video as well.
Nice video, very good research and information, you condensed dozens of hours of work in just ten minutes. The visual quality and resolution of the video shots are superb (e.g. 4:46). Thanks!
Your artillery hornet is printing mirrored on the X axis. You could set the homing direction to "max" instead of "min", just like the voron switchwire.
Thanks a lot and congrats: You found one of the easter eggs in this video :-) Just kidding: I realized it only when doing the editing of that video :-)
You're welcome, greetings from Niedersachsen
Greetings from Niederbayern 👍
Hi würdest du klipper bei ein Turnigy Fabrikator empfehlen? Es hat arduino mega 2560 mit ramps 1.4 als Mainboard. Und hat 12V psu falls das eine Rolle spielt. Würde mich sehr über Rückmeldung freuen! LG aus dem Bundesland Österreich @@247printing
@@247printinghi würdest du klipper auf dem alten Drucker Turnigy Fabrikator (Arduino mega 2560 ramps 1.4 als Mainboard und 12v netzteil).
Bisschen Kontext: Hab da das aktuellste marlin drauf laufen und hab es gemodded damit ich ein pei druckbett haben kann. Der Drucker ist uralt aber schneller als mein neuer. Und ich habe einen alten thin Client (AMD E450) aus Windows 7 Zeiten rumliegen der extrem schlecht ist mit einem niedrigeren single core benchmarkwert als raspberry pi. Linux mit Desktop läuft eher langsam aber ohne Desktop Environment mit mehr RAM könnte ein Versuch wert sein. Mir geht's hauptsächlich darum, ob der Drucker an sich klipper betreiben kann oder eher keine gute Idee? Das mit dem thin Client wäre ein Versuch dem Gerät neues Leben einzuhauchen
Lg
We're discovering that even single board printers can manage input shaping and higher speeds, since new 32-bit boards have much more power than is utilized by Marlin. The extra computation uses a bit more energy, but not as much as tethering a Raspberry Pi. So, older printers can benefit greatly from a firmware upgrade with no change to the hardware. Upcoming versions of Marlin will include more advanced time-based motion and input shaping contributed by Ulendo, providing even better results with no change in electronics. So the future is looking bright and speedy for all legacy printers!
While Klipper can of course can not change the hardware limitations of your printer, like max volumetric flow and cooling, with klipper you actually can now make use of already existing good solutions. For example a Bondtech CHT boost up your volumetric flow without any further hardware modification. Just a change of nozzle.
Also there is a cool cooling solution called "Berd-Air" to improve cooling.
With upgrading to Klipper the next upgrades follow eventually...
THANKS for the video. I have one Hornet and three Odins. PLUS a few PI. SO I will experiment eventually!!
Thank you! Hornet and Odin were both very easy to install Klipper!
If I was you: DO IT!
Excellent video! I agree! the marketing for these new 3D printers are misleading, yes the print head moves faster but you have to lower the layer height to compensate. I can actually print faster with a slower moving print head and my usual layer heights. The input shaping with the accelerometer could be game changing I will definitely explore this in the future.
I'm not as driven by speed for klipper as I am tired of making changes, compiling code, said compiling failing, fixing errors, recompiling, flashing printer, testing out changes, making more changes, recompiling code... you get the idea. Klipper allows for rapid changes and even allows for input shaping and pressure advance settings on the fly, even without the bits and bods to do it 100% correctly. Marlin just isn't that quick and dirty. You can do it, but the latest flavor of Marlin seems to have a lot more checks and balances built in, most of which won't cause any damage to your printer. I can't tell you how many times I've had compiling fail, cryptic error messages just to take out changes to make it compile. I have an Ender 3 that I have been messing with Klipper on and I'm looking at my other running printers just because I like being able to change Klipper, test it out, change it back if I don't like the results, all in about the time it takes to copy firmware to an sd card...not true, but you get the idea.
Absolutely, that's one of the strongest pros of Klipper also for me. When I started with FDM and "printers as projects" back in 2017 I chose Smoothieware, because the processes involved with Marlin drove me insane.
For some reason I thought that klipper was something meant for high end printers...Well that was until I learned about macros. It was delightfully easy and simple to install and get running.
Awesome information and presentation, thank you 💪
Thank YOU!
Espectacular video !!!! Abrazos y saludos desde Córdoba Argentina 🎉🎉🎉
There is a pretty good fan duct mod on thingyverse for the hornet that replaces the entire head shell and directs the air flow directly on the very tip of the extruder.
You should make a video on how to install Klipper on that Hornet there since there’s only videos of showing it off
Please make a video about the minimum time and minimum speed calibration! I never found anything helping to tune them!
I use the Benchy Hull without infill and top solid for the layer time and something small and potinted for minimum speed (iteratively). But I also still don't have a (good) idea for systematic approach other than that :/ As soon as I have, there might be a video.
Great Video, how can i determine layer time and min print speed of my printer?
Thank you! Didn’t find a perfect generic procedure for that, but I use sth pointed for min print speed and something fast with overhangs for layer time (hull of a benchy with low infill)
Dear God, thats grazy speed up. My long term project is using klipper, will be interesting to see how self designed 3d printer will perform against stock factory made ones.
Awesome video that was great help! Subscribed for more♥
This is why Ive been trying to setup Klipper and then now with direct drive for the past month but having a hard time.
Great video. I've been thinking about making the switch to Klipper. Tired of recompiling to add or remove a feature... I also like to go fast. if you aint first yer last.
Thanks a lot, Ben!
This was a VERY informative video, thank you... I just bought an Ender 3 V2 Neo on sale and its my first printer. As a rookie in this, what do you recomend me ? Not install anything extra and use the printer as is, install Octoprint, Klipper or OctoKlipper ?
It's really bad that klipper still does not allow separate x and y accelerations even with 2 separately developed pull requests and numerous discussions on github, discourse, reddit, discord, etc.
Lately they also broke the limited_cartesian code that Piezo developed, so I've gone back to marlin.
If I can get 15k on X and 8k on Y and I'm printing a thin object (ex. airfoil), I'll take the speed boost over Klipper features every time.
I have tuned input shaper and linear advance inside marlin and I have been able to increase my acceleration to 3000 from 600 and double the print speed, without loss of quality
Thank you! Great video
I have an artillery hornet can you please share the settings that you used for your hornet so we can use them? Thank you
Duet's support input shaping now as well.
Excellent efforts
needing a raspberry pi makes this a very expensive upgrade.
i need a alternative single board computer.
True, but check out BigTreeTech's CB1. And... let's hope those prices go lower soon. (Even though a sufficient PI3 is quite affordable on Ebay).
@@247printing i been looking at pi alternatives since i commented. i found a few great choices. between $40 - $90.
the CB1 looks good except 1GB ram isn't enough for a modern computer. i want 4GB minimum. since its not something you can upgrade later if you need to like a desktop i cant willingly buy a SBC with 1GB ram.
Ram is essential to performance. too little and it bogs down everything. too much and you just have wiggle room. no frustration there.
i been waiting so long to get a CM4 with 8gb ram and wifi but its been scalped to death. the brand is basically dead at this point. but i hope it can recover.
I have a small 3D printing business with a few Ender 3 V2s, by changing to klipper, replacing to mosquito hotends / phaetus and upgrading cooling Im printing 6x faster with better quality prints then Marlin ever gave me, on my bowden tube I print on 300mm/s 7k accelration flawless prints, on my DD I print on 200mm/s and 4.5k accel, klipper just blew my mind!
Thank you very much! You inspired me to switch from Marlin to Klipper on my Artillery Hornet. I also tuned input shaping using the ADXL345 sensor obtaining amazing results on the ringing tower model!
However I am now finding some difficulties on bringing high speed onto "normal" prints, despite no problems on the ringing tower.
I am currently trying to print at around 90 mm/s and max accel set to 3000 with poor results (usually, some of the final layers won't extrude anymore or extrude badly with visible holes).
Do you, by any chance, remember which settings you used for speed/acceleration on the hornet?
Thank a lot and keep doing that!!
What really matters is whether you can use the part just printed!
How can input shaping speed up the print when it slows down the start and stop inertia?
Yup, it's 2024 and we're printing perfectly usable parts at high quality 2-4 times faster thanks to input shaping which is used widely since 2019.
Welcome to the future ;-)
"(...) slows down the start and stop inertia?"
Please elaborate on this, that's not the case.
i have a question so i have my first printer but i need to know will this void my warranty and if so is it worth voiding my warranty because if this printer break i can't afford to get a new one
For acceleration bound moves, time cost of the move doesn't scale inversely with acceleration but inversely with the square root of acceleration. You need 4x the acceleration to halve print time. (This isn't quite true because moves start at nonzero junction velocity, but it's still close.) This is why the giant boosts to acceleration, while they help a lot, don't give you the proportional time saving you might expect.
Yup, simple math for that, when isolating the gains by increased acceleration for certain geometries. As it is complex as a whole and concerning realistic/different geometries, it's more of a statistical topic. In this case here we had 6x to 8x the acceleration, up to doubled the print speed and carefully optimized retracts/z-moves in comparison to the baseline and managed achieve a max of half of the print time.
@@247printing Yep, the gains will be less if you're already reaching cruise at the lower accel or somewhere in between. Only if you can increase max speed by the square root of the accel factor at the same time would you expect the full scaling, and that's still not accounting for retraction times.
Awesome, subscribed
Thanks a lot 🤩
This is a great Video and shows how I can squeeze some more oomph out of my aging Biqu B1. Would you recommend just getting it hooked up to a Sonic Pad?
I guess i need to get klipper coupled with my 0.6mm nozzle in my effort to decrease print times with my ender 3.
Interesante comparativa. lo que no entiendo es porque no pasar directamente esos parametros al firmware original. si das mas aceleracion al la maquina seguro que vas a ir mas rapido.
Wouldn't it have made more sense to see how far you could push the speed on the default firmware first?
Is there any good documentation/video out there describing how to find minimum layer time/print speeds? Because it's the biggest issue I struggle with...
You found a weak point here: I just do it this way (that's the third video I used this method), but I never explained exactly how I do it and why it works. I don't know of any source that explains it. My simple method (that works so far): Print something pointed for min. print speed and print something fast with overhangs for min layer time (Benchy hull without infill). There might definitely be better or cleverer ways for that...
@@247printing Interesting, I'll try that, thanks!
Great video. Thanks
Some said that a 0.6 mm nozzle will drop a similar amount of print time. Maybe a bigger nozzle + klipper will really change the speed to 4x.
Actually, even with a bigger nozzle, cooling still is the issue on many prints. Also it depends on the objects, if it is OK to use a bigger nozzle.
On the other hand, klipper might some upgrades profiable: To increase flow of the hotend, just use a bondtech cht nozzle. For cooling, you might try Berd Air. Two easy and cheap upgrades which can push the limits of your printer a lot
@@oleurgast730 More cooling = weaker parts. I'm not convinced yet.
@@alejandroperez5368 More plastic in the same time needs more air in the same time to get the same(!) cooling! If you print faster, the airflow from the part cooler on the printhead touches the part a shorter time - so you have to increase airflow to get the same(!) cooling. You can increase airflow on the printhead (Berd Air) or an auxilary fan (like the X1 carbon does).
With 4-times the speed (or to phrase it more precise: 1/4th overall printtime) you need 4-times of airflow for the same(!) cooling.
Great tutorial/ comparison dude, for me, marlin gets the job done, i think that has a lot more features, plus it's the main board and that's it, of course, for speed printing Klipper for now is unrivaled, on that side... I run my Anet e10 with linear advance at 3k accel and 75-100mm/s average speed in Prusa slicer with pretty much no ringing, no lost steps, and great print quality, but, that's just me, last, watch out for the arm CPUs, they are getting REALLY fast
Thanks a lot, mate! sounds good!
It would be great to see what the performance increase is when a couple more cooling fans are installed and the main speed limitation becomes the fundamental fact that a bed slinger is a bed slinger and has to move the bed around a lot more than other printer types.
I have a Creality Sonic Pad on the way. I’m going to use it on my Ender-3 S1 Plus. I have spare Raspberry pi’s and might set one up with Klipper for my Ender-3 Pro. You can also see a review on that FLSUN delta printer on Aurora Tech’s channel. This very young girl really knows her stuff.
Dein Intro / Soundtrack allein hat mich dazu gebracht sofort zu abonnieren!
Es gibt viel zu wenig Stoner Rock auf der Welt!
Danke Sebastian freut mich sehr! RUclips videos dürfen schon auch ein bisschen pushen oder? Voice over ist aber viel zu langsam gesprochen stellte ich grad fest mit bisschen Abstand 😅
I still haven't reached the point where my Klipper prints are to the same quality as my stock prints, but I'm determined to get everything dialed in because I do believe in the promise of what it brings to the table.
i would love to get my hands on the profiles so i can compare my settings. I have and kingroon kp3s with h2 extruder. Thanks for a great video :)
The voice said, I have to leave a comment. So I do. 🙂 Great Video!
Greate video and thank you for all insights and good information.
Thanks Heinz, very nice of you that you do what voice said AND that you watched the video to the end!
Hey Ingmar, thanks a lot for stopping by and commenting! Looking forward to our call next week!
I am intrested in method to calculate min layer time and speed
i made my own printer with wood and scrap i found around
i installed marlin on a ramps 1.4 with arduino mega
it works fine and i got the settings dialed in so good , my printer is better than an out of the bow ender 3
klipper is too complicated and the hardware is expensive to run it , it also takes alot of time to set up
so imma skip until slicer compatibility forces me to change
OK after reading numerous test about setting up Klipper for Printers I do not own, FINALLY a video on just howe good is the end result. I heard 2X faster, limited by cooling. Then I thought about that, WAIT. A bigger Fan and custom cooling ducts can ne bought and printed for next to Cheap. What stopped you from going the extra 10 yards, 3 meters whatever to actually chase the best you can get from Klipper with a little help. I am all for the new science the is allowed to come into play. But why hangchuff it by saying you can't change anything else. In my case I have a 3 year old CR 10S Pro V1 with upgrades, Pi 4 with Octoprint, Microswiss DD and Hot end, BL Touch, Z azis Struts and Garolite Bed. OK Now I am still printing at 60 mm/s and I still mess up layer one and my parts take forever to complete. So $140 to add Pad 7, My support guy says 2 ours for $100 he can set up right. Then we get into the what's next: Hotter and Faster Hot end, Better part cooling, Linear Rails X & Y No that adds up yes but you can space it out and say in 6 months have a better machine. How much better, frequency of layer 1 failures, Speed to print, Quality of finished part how many rejects, reprints? I even get my Corvette tuned by a specialist just to get a few extra Horsepowers And he costs $500. So why not Invest in the old boy, I Like it and if it was more reliable, cleaner prints and faster That is a big plus. What do you think? 1st Pad 7, 2nd Cooliing fan and duct, 3rd Faster Hot End, 4th Linear rails. 1st $240 with tune, 2nd $60, 3rd $200 guess, 4th $200 estimate. So $520 for the whole mess and what will you have. Your 3 year old Bed Slinger now 4 years old Printing twice as fast if not more, Zero failed Prints, Never need to reprint, 2 parts in the time of one before. Less waste in material and time. Only Option is $1,000 or more and that would be a Core XY with an enclosure. Unless you can lighten the bed on the 10S Pro you are limited, But with the technology Klipper brings to the printer You are not leaving much behind. My thoughts, what are yours???
I'd call it "firmware" (w quotation marks) - because after applying it to your printer board/electronic became just "dumb" interface to motors/heaters/sensors. All the real work/math/logic is then made in the attached raspberry or pc. Which is the clever way how it became fast (and more precise). And the nice thing is - you can get same result with cheap boards. No need of such fancy luxury electronic boards. If you build your own printer - just grab cheapest one with drivers of your liking and you are good to go - use money for better rails/motors...
Even on my elderly first gen CR10 it is difference as day and night. I've migrated to klipper like 2yrs ago and never going back.
Nice video!
Can you test if servo motors have any benefits over the steppers.
my ender 3 with marlin was very slow + my bl touch wont work even with the correct firmware + the printer and the ui just became slow and unresponsive when changing accel to 2000-5000 + i had to always manually change the accel because changing it in cura didnt work
and now with klipper its just faster and higher quality + my bl touch works perfectly + the ui is way better
overall. klipper is better if you can install it. if you cant then marlin is okay for slower prints
Very nice Albert.
I use thanks you Klipper.
Gruß
Albert
Hey Albert, thanks a lot! Gruß, Albert :-)
The Marlin 2.1 had input shaping!
Recently switched to Klipper on my Artillery Sidewinder X2 and I'm loving it so far. Do you have a process you use to calibrate your minimum layer time, maybe a gcode file or cura script you use?
I also have an X2 and preparing to switch to klipper, did you push print speed to the limit?
I'm curious if something like 210mm/s is achievable
@@pietrom2642 The volcano hotend of the X2 can comfortable extrude a flow of 25mm/s^3. You could conceivably crank your speed up to 350mm/s with a 0.4 nozzle at 0.2m layer height. I usually print at around 200mm/s with 3K acceleration, but I'm going to play with those numbers more when I get input shaper set up.
I myself have Klipper running on 6 of my printers. I would be curious to know if you would be willing to share your printer.cfg file for your Fokoos, to see how it compares to the one I setup and am running. Also wanted to say excellent video by the way comparing Klipper to the stock firmware's of these machine's.
Love your videos
Thank you for helping me to understand just how much of a boost I can really receive from moving to klipper. Are you planning a video on the Klipper pads that are showing up? and what about the Y axes when using it on a bedslinger? I saw the accelerometer on the X axes. How does that work?
Awesome comparison, Thanks, would you be willing to share the config for the hornet machine. I already flashed mine . but would benefit immensely from you knowledge
Thanks
Thanks for another beast mode video brotha ! as always the work is bitchin ! :)
Thanks a lot, Jeff!
I wish I can access the test STLs, could you share with us , please ?
Just one question. The LCD screen included in the Artillery Hornet is supported by Klipper? thanks in advance.
Short answer, AFAIK: Yes
@@247printing thanks for such an immediate response!
Exactly the video i were searching for. Thanks for the clear review, gonna go read some documentation and make printer brrr
Klipper actually has support for the stock displays. You just have to configure the display type and the pin outs
Depends on the stock display. The display of the Hornet works all the others in the video don't.
Where did you get theb test prints for the auto cooling settings. That is something I would like to dial in
Please share your Biqu B1 firmware and cfg file.
It looks like you have it working well.
Thanks
Mark
great video ! love it, I run klipper too on a ender 3 and it's a beast ! I do print with esun pla+ with a orbiter 2.0 DD and a E3Dv6 but I've got a lot of small stringing, do you have printing seting to avoid thoses ? like retraction speed or retraction lenght ? thanks a lot !
Do a retraction tower to find the appropriate value.