Helluva Boss Is Trying to Destroy Its Own Worldbuilding (Queen Bee Analysis/Review/Critique)
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- Опубликовано: 19 июн 2024
- There were many things to appreciate about the newest Helluva Boss episode, but there's also a major issue.
I forgot to mention in the video, but please leave a comment if you have thoughts! I obviously love talking about this sort of thing.
0:00 Disclaimers
1:04 The Caste System
3:50 Asmodeus and Fizzarolli
6:03 Miscellaneous Thoughts
7:16 End
tags: #helluvaboss #helluvabossseason2 #vivziepop
keywords: helluva boss, hazbin hotel, spindlehorse, vivziepop, review, analysis, critical, critique, worldbuilding, helluva boss season 1 episode 8 queen bee 
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The writers do not care about the in world rules and caste system they’ve created, it’s only there to cause drama for Blitzo and Stolas. The hierarchy system is only acknowledged when the plot demands it
But the thing is Beelzebub and Asmodeus are deadly sins and basically among the top 10 most powerful people in hell only below Lucifer and his family so they can do whatever they want like no one can tell them no
@@tukeromandela8005also respect wouldn’t stop people from talking ABOUT you so the fact no one says anything is quite weird like Luna isn’t even weirded out
@@tukeromandela8005 Brody, ya ain't been dead right? How you know dis from a shit cartoon that likes to make whiplash and yank it's own ass with shitstained wedgies for a story?
Exactly they’ve basically made it the blitz and stolas show
So basically like everything else.
Remember when this was about HELL?
*_Me neither!_*
I honestly think Viv doesn't care about her lore or worldbuilding. Every episode destroys it even further. And it also doesn't make sense that Stolas is being shamed and shunned for dating Blizto, but Bee can date a hellhound?
beelzebub looks like a hellhound so ig its fine for her to date one but asmodius is dating an imp
Bee is a princess. Nobody's gonna dare critique someone of such status unless they want to get massively shit on. Plus, the only people at that party were hellhounds and no hellhound is gonna shame a princess for dating one of their people
@@singularity4518 There's also imps at that party tho ? Also Asmodeus is also a prince/king of his realm ? Maybe the hypocrisy allegations are about Mollie and Moxie because he mocked their lovey-dovey relationship but it seem most people thing he's being called an hypocrite because of the Stolas X Blitzø plot
@@zacktherandomweirdonobody knows about fiddle and osy
I feel like the only reason for it was because dude is cheating on his wife. Then again it's hell or it could've been Ozzie backing up fizz roasting blitz. Then again that don't make much sense either.
Remember kids: Any explanation of why things are as they are in a story should be provided by the story, not your own speculation. A good story doesn‘t make you ask questions of confusion, but of curiosity. A good story should make you want more of what‘s there, not try to fill in what isn‘t.
I think my problem with the idea that Beezlebub is too powerful for anyone to talk back to her is that being powerful doesnt stop gossip? If ur in that position of power ur gonna be gossiped about even more, even if its behind ur back. Its still not an excuse to not bring it up in the episode. Its a party, so someone could drunkenly say smth stupid against the queen of gluttony and she could threaten them to shut them up. Idk anythin that demonstrates that the caste system still exists or how it works.
Also, if we're mentioning "shes too powerful for anyone to talk back to her", didnt Stolas kill all those people in the DORKS episode?? Wouldnt he also be too powerful to be fucked with?
Something tells me she's a down to earth person. let's not forget, Beezlebub was fine with Blitz, who is a IMP, THE LOWEST OF THE LOWEST, who is looked down upon by others with positions of power. That's probably why she's in love with Vortex (despite him being lower class as well). Let's not forget, he worked for Verosika (a diva who is an egotistical celebrity). Fizz must've worked for Ozzie because he's hiding himself from being an IMP. as we saw in the flashback in Season 2 ep 1 and in the Ozzie's episode. He wants to not be associated with Blitz and others IMPS like him because of a tragic past that might've happened (which is not explained yet) because Flizz said that Blitz was a total disgrace in his song.
Because if anyone starts shit she immediately kicks them and the thing with stolas Ozzi is above in rank probably is reason he didn’t start with him
Blitz’ relationship with Stolas seems to be a lot more taboo because the Ars Goetia are very classist and rarely date below their status.
Hellhounds also seem to be native to the Gluttony ring, which would make it a lot less weird for Beelzebub to be dating a hellhound.
Another thing that may be of note about Fizzarolli and Asmodeus’ relationship is that Fizzarolli is also, to a certain extent, a celebrity. It is possible that he could be seen as “above” his actual caste because of it (which would honestly be an interesting dynamic to explore in its own right).
I never even realized she was /the/ beelzebub until post episode. I just assumed she was maybe someone just below the sin because of that line about getting into someone's stash. I realize now I should rewatch the episode. Lol
She talks about breaking into Belphagor’s stash. Belphagor is the prince of sloth, and is revealed to run the medical industry based off of Western Energy
For anyone wondering, Beelzebub is not a hellhound, she’s a fox. Vivziepop said on Twitter that she made her a fox to decipher her from the rest of the hellhounds.
That's what happens when you make Hellhounds such a varied species/caste of many different Canine species/breeds. Then you throw in a Fox (another Canine species), where nothing in the show makes it explicit Bee being part-Fox sets her apart from Hellhounds.
Vivzie did not establish the rules beforehand so she had to explain it after the fact on Twitter.
Is Loona a wolf or a husky?
@yellowcoyote2148 I believe Loona is a Siberian husky
@@PlanetZoidstarAlright but shes a hybrid too of a bee/fly which obviously isnt a thing really for hellhounds to have so thats on establishment
@@jestrel Except we've seen hybrids of other Hell natives, like Striker is clearly not your average Imp. But he's treated like any other Imp.
Bee's non-Canine traits are limited to her extra limbs, and her hair and tail. Hellhound is the base the rest of her design is built on.
Vivzie clearly started off with Bee being a Hellhound - then she just tweaked the design to add extra features onto it.
I saw a theory where she hosts the hellhound parties to get everyone drunk so they have kids and put them up for adoption at the hellhound center that she owns, if you look closer at Loona’s adoption certificate it has her signature on it, and another one where the line “I can taste the flavor of everyone at my party” can probably mean she feeds off their energy (there’s another line said while talking to Loona too) I just wanted to share this ^^
I find it funny how they have kids and just, dont want them like its a normal thing. Its hell so ig
@@specterr3177don't forget they are generally treated as pets. So it may be their owners refuse to keep the pups.
@@chazmars78 like i said, hell ig ☠️
Hi, it's me. I won't claim to be the only one that has that theory but if it was my post you are referring to @nev571, it's only half of it. I had a deeper cut theory hand in hand with it about this Bee's possible origins as an actual hellhound, and was not the Hellaverse's first/original Beelzebub, just the current crown holder after usurping the previous/original one after growing sick of the indulgent neglect of the Ring and her Kind.
@@Magus Yeah I just wanted to give a brief, I found it pretty interesting lol
Tbh I agree with all of this. Plus: I personally think her design just...fits Zoophobia way more than HB. I'm scared Vivzie starts like Thomas Astruc and makes decisions that are for HERSELF mostly and ignores important things established already. It'd be a shame really bc I love Helluva. I did make a "redesign" of queen bee. Hope the white knights wont storm me xd
I agree, but..I think its already happening man...
Vivzie started doing things for HERSELF the moment she obliterated the moral ambiguity surrounding Stolitz. It's no longer a fuck up on Stolas' part that hurts everyone around him anymore.
Now it's an inevitability and everyone not named Stella is going to roll with it.
To be honest, if she had just admitted she liked Queen Bee’s design and wanted to use it, I don’t think people would be as harsh. And I do agree it fights Zoophobia more
I have been seeing several redesigns of her on Twitter, and oh my, they are so much better because the majority of the redesigns do maintain the concept of her being a "Queen Bee". Seriously, Beelzebub just feels like Loona but in yellow with extra arms lmao.
@@ZackLendress I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw it.
I keep saying this in other comment sections, but oh my God the HB crew needs needs NEEDS someone to be looking over continuity and world building, so many productions think they can get away with not having one and it shows.
Why would they do THAT when it's far, FAR easier to take the Paul Feige/Fromsoft approach of insulting anyone who criticizes their products?
@@jeremyallen5974 Thomas Astruc part two: electric boogaloo
I feel like the reason Bee isn't called out for dating a Hound is because she is a sin, higher above all,
I feel like no one would want to address it out of fear of what could happen if they were to comment on it in any negative way, especially when she already seems so kind to the hounds generally.
For Fizz, Fizz hides the fact that he is an imp, that is why his toys are made without tails. Unlike Blitz and Stolas who when on a date there was no hiding it and with Stolas being below Asmodeus, Asmodeus had no trouble calling him out and because he did others felt free to join in on the banter. I feel like it makes sense tbh
I agree like who’s gonna fuck around and find out
This would be a great point if it wasn't for the fact that we can see in the season 2 trailer that in this season Fiz and Ozzie's relationship will be public and there are news reports shitting on them
@@meatchips4936I agree, but I think this is due less to the fact they’re involved in a relationship, and more about Asmodeus’ being hypocritical in his words. He reprimands M&M for being lovey dovey and then he himself is caught in something that of lovey dovey. The sin of lust being in an actual loving relationship goes against his previous word. I know the song was about being wholesome in a sexy lounge, but others might not have taken it that way and just saw it as being hypocritical later (it happened DURING the song where Asmodeus calls out Stolas being with Blitzo and somebody in the crowd calls “are you sleeping with an imp?!” even when Asmodeus never commented on the fact he was an imp).
I know it’s still a weird plot hole, but that’s just my theory.
I agree but also I think the Goetia just care more about status than the princes do.
But what about other sins?
BRO HARD AGREEEEEEEEEEEEEE
LITERALLY!!!
THE SHOW WAS AN ABSOLUTELY FAV OF MINE BUT I CANNOT DEAL WITH HOW INCONSISTENT IT IS AHHH.
I really liked your argument comparing their relationship to fizzarolli's and asmodeus'
I personally felt disappointed with the entire episode cause the character design felt so.... "Not BEELZEBUB"?? She feels like some wacky teen girl butbi just that's not gluttony
I have to disagree.
Gluttony is all about indulgence. So the party girl esthetic actually makes a massive amount of sense as that is the entire point of a party. To indulge.
@@James-nr2hi her design is still ass though
@@James-nr2hi what sort of argument is this?
I said her design doesn't feel like gluttony.
I'm not saying what gluttony is and isn't, nor am I saying that teen rebels cannot be gluttonous. Bee as she is, (but as the princess of gluttony for example) is fine. But she shouldn't be THE deadly sin. Most people whom I have asked, didn't even KNOW she was supposed to be gluttony due to her design (rather than some privileged rich girl).
Like her design CAN work. But she's not GLUTTONY. she's the daughter or Bruce of gluttony if ANYTHING. you get what I mean?
When I say she doesn't feel like gluttony, I'm not saying that she isn't gluttonous. Cause she is definitely an ASPECT of gluttony. (Though the most common and most recognised aspect of gluttony is food!)
I'm saying her design does a terrible job at conveying what she's supposed to be.
@@sirSpookyToons My point is that her design IS gluttony. It imbodies gluttony more throughly than just making beelzub some fat guy.
Parties are all about eating, drinking and f*cking. All of which are gluttony so her design fits that perfectly.
As for not being instantly recognisable, I could say the same about the other sins.
You don't look at Lucifer and think pride or even that that's supposed to be Lucifer. The only thing that would give you that impression is his name just is instantly recognisable.
But in terms of design, at first glance he's just a guy in a suit.
Same for Osmodius. Ozzie doesn't look like the imbodiment of lust, he just looks like an extravagant looking demon.
@James-nr2hi does that not show poor character design? If you can only attach what they are like once that’s shown and then retroactively know it’s then it doesn’t feel like the design represents the character well.
I am saying this as someone with no experience so take it how you will
yeah... i was also dissapointed that Beezlebub was a dog and not an insect
You know the funny thing? Viv is stating that she's a combination of fox and a bee ;/
@@ritaerror7829 She does not look Bee and never gave that vibe when I first saw the episode, I didn't even see Wings because of the distracting glowing Hair and Background washing them out and that big form is no Bee form, as one Bee's don't have three eyes and the two ones she has are not Compound Eyes, if that's supposed to be an Insect form then sorry but Viv and them did it absolutely sloppy and Viv defends Bee's design so why would she want to actually make Bee look insect?
@@artistanthony1007 Don't ask me, Viv did this "hybrid" and pretends it looks like bee enough (while there is nothing of a bee here outside of theme around, but Beezlebub have only generic insect wings)
@@ritaerror7829Just explained why I dont buy that statement or it being Bee. If I can't see the Bee in Beezelbub's design and not think that's her at the beginning or recognize anything then it fails as a design, it also just looks so bad and has stuff pasted together especially the arms for her Glass Lava Lamp thing.
I guess there are some ways to try and explain their relationship, maybe the hellhounds are made in Beelzebub’s image like what the imps are to Satan which is why it’s okay. Or maybe the caste system is more loose in gluttony, but if that’s the case why don’t Stolas and Blitzø just go there? IDK this really BUGGED me.
Blitz business is in pride because it caters to sinners.
@@DD-po2hh I know that but why doesn’t Stolas ever suggest they go there? Whatever I’m just speculating.
I think the caste system might be looser in gluttony. It’s clear the hell hounds are treated a lot better there than other parts of hell.
My understanding of this discrepency was that Bees too high up to care about anyone lower than her's opinion on her personal life and the denizens of hell are afraid of her status and power so they hush up (Charlie Magne, ABOVE the sins, is insulted in the press in Hazbin, so maybe its brave journalism? Can't explain that one.)
As for Ozzy and Fizz, theres a tabloid in a storyboard section of the official season two trailer which only defames Asmodeous as a "hypocrite" for having a seeming loving affection for another while representing the lustful sin. Not for being with someone at least imp presenting, therefore, Ozzy being in a loving relationship is the problem. His status and power are BEYOND the caste system. Reputation of not falling in line with their sin seems more destructive than inter-caste system dating. Take it as: The rich and affluent make their own rules. And your point was a good one on why no one would care if Fizz is an Imp: Ozzy IS lust, attraction isn't status dependent.
The Goetia, on the other hand, are a rung below the sins and seem FAR more conscious, is a good word, about maintaining that fragile status. Stolas' affair with Blitz will be more of a problem down the road due to the "exchange of goods and services" which included Stolas' purpose: an item he had no legality to give. Its also a quite public affair of high society, of course demons will bring up the obvious difference. Wally does immediately bring up that Blitzo is an imp, likely meaning imps are poor and unemployed bums with no place in royalty. Wally is racist towards himself apparently. Ozzy doesn't bring up Blitzo as an Imp, merely points out that DAMN you threw away your whole life to bang sinfully? Nice.
In synposis: Sins are too above it all to care and bullets against them representing their sin seem to be more damaging. This is my interpretation, nothing meant to be concrete, just a different perspective. Im also not making excuses for the shows writing: its pretty poor at times, especially with Millie, so I wholeheartedly understand your frustration.
THANKYOU.
I have never understood how ANYONE in HH gets away with mocking the PRINCESS OF HELL to her face, when she's above even the Sins.
"Wow...That was shit."
Is not something ANYONE lower than Charlie in rank should just be allowed to say.
Can you write my essay’s?
@@LunarCat_Studio haha! Thanks man!
@@PlanetZoidstar That probably has something to do with everyone realizing that Charlie is too sweet and innocent to do anything to them. She doesn’t really care about her status, she just wants to do what’s right for Hell.
Charlie may well be an exception to any sort of manners in the caste system for a variety of reasons.
1. She is part angel and thus in their eyes it cancels out any respect she deserves as her father's child.
2. She is too nice so they know she won't get mad and erase them from existence/torture them for their slights against her.
I love how everyone writes out their theories in this comment section to explain this inconsistency. But that is exactly the problem. The show shouldn't need fan theories for its world to function. It was established that dating with lesser demons is frowned upon. But Bee openly dates a hellhound and no one seems to care and THE SHOW gives no explanation for that.
This is bad worldbuilding. And no, this is also not subtle storytelling like I read someone claim. This is just inconsistent and this show needs better writing/ writers who actually pay attention to what has already been established.
Ps: I also love how Loona calls Blitz dad two times this episode, just for her to physically abuse him in 'seeing stars'. That's what I call character progression lol.
There's nothing wrong with trying to find potential explanations for something, but in the end it's the writers' job to explain this stuff, not the fans'.
"Helluva boss is the most intolerant towards criticism"
Steven Universe: "YOU DARE CHALLENGE ME?!"
Steven Universe was a bad show omg 😂I keep forgetting it exists
Fromsoft: silence, incels!
Neither are intolerant towards criticism.
@@sincerelynotme3522 It wasn't bad really
The latest episode also shows a rehab center, it doesn't even look like a bad rehab center, the one person we see that works there seems to really care about it, and it's like, wasn't the whole point of the plot in hazbin hotel that hell doesn't have rehab and nobody believes it can be done? Like maybe you can say the whole thing with the sinners is different and yeah it is in some ways, but still it feels like they keep making choices that make the setting weaker for the kind of stories thay want to tell
I agree,it feels they are trying to make it relatable to irl and real problems tho which would be fine but they also so badly try to point out how this is hell but don't really act like it
Why is there rehab in hell i thought that was the plot to hazbin tho viv really shot her own writing in the face with thst throwaway joke over laughing at addixts hmm🎉
Yeah, the lore….really was too big for such a small centerd cast.
Do you think all of this Lore would have been better implemented if It wasnt in helluva boss in general or on vivzie's other show?
@@giullianpadilla361 hmm, good question, id say that Helluva has too much on its plate to handle the world lore. Every episode adds a new characer and or retcons another. So, id say Hazbin probably would have been better at adding world lore, the demon higherups can still exist in the shownbut maybe Helluva should back off of expanding SO much unexpland lands and rules in society and focus on the many villians and main characters that in all homesty still havent had development or grown beyoned Moxie (whos actions and motivs change every episode)
@@harmonylynx252 i agree The last couple of episodes really feel like their trying to expand The world as fast as possible without taking in consideration The much needed character development or improvement in The humor and writing Which just makes The new episodes And The show itself feel like a mess of potentially Good ideas
This all makes sense if you adopt the theory that Spindlehorse follows their own lore when they think it would be cool and/or dramatic to do so, and if it isn’t, they don’t explain the exception, they just ignore the lore entirely
Or wait until a week AFTER the fact and fart out a handwavey bit of lore on a social media page
They should’ve just made Bee one of multiple pets or a prized Hellhound of the sin Beelzebub (like a showdog); it would explain why Bee looked so different from the other Hellhounds and resolve pretty much every worldbuilding issue.
I really like how you, among a few others, review this episode on something more than just "Omg, it's Ke$ha! From Viv's 'Die Young' video!" and "I'm simping for Beelzebub's design!". Because, sure, her character is aesthetically and objectively likable. But, to me, it just ruins the fact that they're in Hell. I can accept a few good apples among the less impactful characters (lower ranked in the hierarchy), but when it's hitting literal incarnations of the 7 sins, both Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel feel like they're shitting all over their own world-building and story structure. It makes me feel like Charlie's idea of rehabilitating demons is something we shouldn't see as a challenge, nor a very big deal. Like, the show is now trying to tell you that it's only occasional unimportant characters that behave like bad people, suddenly telling us that the normalcy of Hell's population is well-behaved. The show didn't used to be like this, and if only I could say it hadn't turned out worse than I could've imagined...
(Don't get me wrong, Ke$ha's version of Beelzebub would've been endlessly appreciated in any other place than Hell)
Just because they’re in Hell doesn’t mean that every character has to be evil. Beelzebub is meant to be the embodiment of gluttony, which Bee’s character did a great job of showing. Beyond that, there’s no reason to make her an unlikable person.
Hazbin isn't about rehabilitating demons. The demons are supposed to be in hell. The sinners are the ones that have to be rehabilitated. As for the deadly sins and the rest they don't have to be evil. They just have to embody their concept. For beelzebub that's gluttony. Meanwhile the imps all show at least one of the two main sins from the rings they are from. Wrath or Greed. Hellhounds are the dogs of hell. Just humanized because it works well in some storylines. And most everybody we have seen whether denizen or sinner shows many reasons why they belong in hell. The deadly sins are amplified visibly in every character we have met.
How does it ruin that at all? It really isn't, Beezelbub is nice but she is still a self indulgent person which is not really a good thing. They don't feel like they're shitting all over their own world-building and story structure. But it is a challenge and a very big deal in fact people cheering Beezelbub on just reinforces that. No a lot of them behave like bad people in fact people criticized that for some reason, not really most are not well-behaved clearly. It still isn't like what you think it is, it still is good.
(I mean it still works in Hell)
I agree. Having literal embodiments of sins, who were raised alongside the chaos and destruction in hell, be actual civilized people is abhorrent to me.
Meanwhile I imagine Millie offscreen after the end of the episode being like "We're not going to talk about how Bee is dating a hellhound? Like, nothing's weird?"
I think the main reason it isn't brought up is because if they did, they could face the wrath of one of the post powerful beings in hell. They don't say anything cause if they did, they'd be evaporated by Beelzebub. That's just how I took it anyways
nah, she seems chill. the writers just suck at remembering stuff!!!
That would be cool, if only it was shown in the show itself instead of having us making it up, lol
I wish the hellava boss community was just a little bit nicer towards criticism. Cause it's okay to like a show that has flaws and you shouldn't be ashamed of that. I hope the series improves Cause I also want to love hellava boss. And at this point I just like it. And that's not enough for me.
I think seven deadly sins are too high on the hierarchy to have someone to call them out. Like you can call them out but you'll probably die.
But I'm also so confused about Bee because she is shown so empathetic, but she literally owns the adoption center (there's her sign on Luna's adoption paper) where they are selling children. Bee selling people and "sensing the vibes", it just doesn't fit together
This is your first video and it’s already a great great point? HELL YEAH! Also, I’m pretty sure there’s wip images of the king of lust (forgot the names, help), getting in trouble in the news or whatever for sleeping with the imp or whatever so YEAH, this just doesn’t make sense 😭 I guess
Also, I feel like the song Cotton Candy gets really repetitive way to quickly, especially when they say the name of this song 17 times or smth like that, I’m definitely gonna wait for all your opinions and stuff because YEAH‼️
Also subscribed‼️ you’re way too underrated
I don’t think he got in trouble because he’s in a relationship with an imp. The newspaper articles were calling him a hypocrite, so it seems more likely that they’re mad that he’s in a loving relationship as the embodiment of lust to begin with.
@@samplayzyt2729ok but that still proves that the seven deadly sins can get backlash from their actions and can get publicly criticised without any consequence
@@meatchips4936 my point was that it’s not the status difference that matters to people, it’s the fact that Ozzy, the embodiment of lust, is in a loving relationship that people care about. He could’ve been in a relationship with anyone and people would’ve been just as mad.
When have you ever heard a song that didn't get repetitive? That song was basically half the episode long. Of course it would get repetitive.
A theory Sarcastic chorus brought up in his video is that it is a big deal but because of how highly ranked they are non of the lower species are saying jack in public, because if they did they would be killed. At least not until someone of even higher rank calls out the oddball couple, like ozzy did with stolas, then they straight up dog pile them, safe behind the even more powerful demon. So the only way bee is getting called out is if at least a fellow sin does so first, he also has a few minor ones explanations i can't remember properly.
I bigger world building break is all the party goers gasp at loona calling a girl bitch, but then cheer when bee starts saying it every other word. Loona not knowing bitch is a bad thing to say would make sense since she lives in pride, and people sware so much thay are inventing new swares just to keep the impact. But the people going to a party with a singer that swares are not going to respond as strongly to swares especially the ones the singer uses the most.
Im starting to think that Helluva Boss was a project to keep Viv and co. busy while they waited for everything needed for Hazbin Hotel to settle into place...
While they are quite a few valid criticisms about Helluva Boss's writing, stating that Beelzebub dating a Hellhound doesn't line up with the drama around Stolas and Blitzo is not one of them.
1. Beelzebub likely doesn't give much of a shit about what people think, she's a party animal, just in it to indulge and have a good time.
2. Asmodeus never gave Stolas shit for sleeping with an Imp, Asmodeus gave him shit for thinking that lust and love can go together.
3. "King of Ozz a hypocrite?" is likely referring to Asmodeus seemingly having feelings for Fizz on some level, not about him sleeping with an Imp as well. Hell, as you said, the public might not even know Fizz is an Imp.
4. People weren't scared of making fun of Charlie, who outranks the 7 princes and the Ars Goetia, so, why didn't they make fun of her for dating a sinner, unless they didn't care? (This was the pilot of Hazbin, so, it is entirely possible this is subject to change, so take this point with a grain of salt.)
5. Lucifer, is married to LILITH, who (I'm pretty sure) is technically a sinner he just gives power to.
6. The truth is, the only elites (unless the overlords are revealed to be classist as well when HH aires) who make any big deal out of class whatsoever, are the Ars Goetia. They have serious middle management energy. People give shit to Stolas, because they see a Goetia prince, someone who they would assume is a classist fuck, having a romantic, sexual, and public affair with an Imp. They probably wouldn't judge it all that much if Stolas wasn't from the Goetia family
I do understand that these details require a lot of thinking. I do think that if they want to use these details in a meaningful manner for the story they're telling, they need to be more obvious with it. The world-building isn't broken, it's just so subtle that it feels broken.
EDIT: Just realized this comment may come off as aggressive, which is not my intention, I'm just sharing my thoughts and opinions, sorry.
Thank you for being honest because I’ve been seeing so many people giving this episode just positives when there barely is any to begin with
People need to stop being so nice with criticism towards this show. You funded for this you should at least want it to be up to par with regular corporation funded shows you see on tv
But there are positives. That's why it's so love
This show is heavy criticized. And if it different then what you think. That cool
Everyone has different taste and watch it for different reasons.
I personally cant find any to complain about beside luna switch of not want to be there to lets go back in.
@@cossodummy188Same thats my complaint too it was weird
@@jestrelmeh. She had a hot guy show interest in her. I've seen and heard of much worse reasons for people to return to parties they wanted to leave previously.
7:05 THANK YOU, while having reaccoring characters and new interactions with them is fun, its felt for a while now like every single character has known each other. Pride is meant to be overpopulated and most of the other rings seem to also be cities, you'd expect more degrees of separation
I agree. Vortex's girlfriend just happening to be one of the head honchos of Hell feels contrived.
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I'VE BEEN PULLIN MY HAIR OUT OVER the worldbuilding MAKES NO SENSE
Viv's hell does not have a "cast" system because if it did bliz never would have been aloud to start I.M.P in the first place he would have been forced to be a circus preformer forever or be killed.
And both Ozzie and bee are rulers who other then Lucifer or Lilith and Charlotte are going to tell them what they can't do. In their own rings
The thing that really started to irk me about the three big intercaste romances is....at least in season 1 the only reason Stolas and Blitz seemed to get flac is because Stolas cheated????? They kind of resolve the whole Fizz x Ozzie thing in the latest ep but still.
As of now, in my opinion, a lot of Helluva and Hazbins writing is going to be stunted due to the fact that these are characters that Viz has had since high school, and she finally gets to have them properly animated. It's a dream for sure, but it makes me worried.
I like how the later episodes retroactively prove you right with the Fizzeroli/Asmodeus reveal being huge news
I feel like Loona wanted to say something but cut herself off. Hence the dialog. "Oh THIS IS-" before cutting herself off saying: "Shes hot.!"
I feel like it’s weird that the gay ship (Stolas and Blitzø) is portrayed as unhealthy for the odd power dynamic. Yet the straight ship (Beelezebub and Vortex), is portrayed as healthy, even though the power dynamic is still messed up.
However, I might be looking too much into this.
Well, Blitz and Stolas’ relationship is transactional, if blitz could he would probably just stop talking to Stolas altogether
I mean, you most likely are. Stolas and Blitzo's relationship is "unhealthy" (and not really because it's clear that it is the endgame) because that's the show's focus, plus the writers' initial intentions for the relationship were different. Plus, there is Ozzie and Fizz as an example of a good gay relationship.
Like, I undestand and also share most criticism toward Viv, but having homophobic biases is the last thing you could accuse her (also, like, isn't she bi)?
Honestly I feel like itd make more sense that Vortex and Beezlebub's relationship hasn't been exposed yet because every single hellhound in her parties are usually so high or drunk off their hides that they don't remember any intereactions Tex and Beel might have
Something tells me she's a down to earth person. let's not forget, Beezlebub was fine with Blitz, who is a IMP, THE LOWEST OF THE LOWEST, who is looked down upon by others with positions of power. That's probably why she's in love with Vortex (despite him being lower class as well). Let's not forget, he worked for Verosika (a diva who is an egotistical celebrity). Fizz must've worked for Ozzie because he's hiding himself from being an IMP. as we saw in the flashback in Season 2 ep 1 and in the Ozzie's episode. He wants to not be associated with Blitz and others IMPS like him because of a tragic past that might've happened (which is not explained yet) because Flizz said that Blitz was a total disgrace in his song.
My two cents, I feel like hellhounds are the majority inhabitants of gluttony. She's the overlord of gluttony. Who should she be banging other than a hellhound? It likewise seems that elsewhere, hellhounds don't have any rights but this is their home turf. We don't know if Tex and Bee are monogamous, open, poly, or other.
Also, Beelzebub can also say B-tch in front of a room full of hellhounds multiple times and no one bats an eyes. Not even Loona calls out the blatant double-standard WHEN SHE WAS JUST OSTRACIZED A FEW SCENES AGO FOR USING THE WORD!!! 🙄🙄🙄
Loona is the weirdo who threw up at the last party she went to and Beelzebub is a deadly sin, when you get to a certain status you are sort of allowed to do whatever you want to a degree and since she somewhat resembles them it’s not like a massive slur, and she also has the power to splatter anyone else in the room across the wall so no one’s gonna try and check her on how she talks, as trying to control someone’s speech is incredibly annoying and irritating for the person having their speech monitored
Also it's weird how in spring broken Loona says she has never been to a hound party before but in this ep the other hellhounds know her as lunatic loona and have pictures of her throwing up. Doesn't this imply that she had been to other parties before?
@@moonlitlaurel8103That is... 100% something the writers completely overlooked, and most likely forgot about.
That Poodle Hellhound deserved that word and there should be a few Hellhounds not caring what she says and sides after being the one mocked, seriously it was Tex's idea to introduce her to his friends and be treated kindly but they all go against her & don't show this genuine behavior.
I clicked on this video to see another point of view, I've only heard good things about episode 8 and never really understood why people disliked her design. After listening to what you had to say, I can understand your point of view. However, there are a couple things I'd like to address: Loona's initial reaction to Beelzebub being Vortex's girlfriend was "she's hot" because she was looking for a way out of that current scenario. Up until Blitzo showed up, she looked very visibly uncomfortable. She also seems to have rather... undeveloped social skills, seeing as she lived in a cage for the first 17 years of her life. To my other topic, I still don't really understand why people don't like Beelzebub's design. Overall, the lava lamp/Bee-Fox looks pretty good, but most people's gripes with it was just "wtf it's not a fatass fly?" To conclude, I don't really care if you take my thoughts with a grain of salt. Everybody has opinions on everything and nobody has to agree with one side or the other. I just figured I'd type this out in hopes that much like I did when clicking on this video, you have an open mind.
I personally think her desing it's too much tbh. The colors are nice but she just looks ugly...
I don't like her weird torso and her second sets of arms being THAT low and blue thing on her hair, also her outfit sort of reminded me of Loona's casual outfit
And she seems to be some sort of half-half hybrid between fox and bee which sounds interesting, but like she doesn't have that many bee features besides the the wings (sometimes you can't even see it) and second set of arms I guess? And she didn't stand out that much for me, I just thought she was some sort of celebry overlord with a flashy desing, like she never felt she is high up in the rank
I think it would've been better to just go straight up with the insect desing, I think that could've been more interesting than like this 97% Fox and 3% bee hybrid
Yet it's what viz wants
huuu i love seeing people just not put the pieces together. seriously though I just want to explain some things from my point of view.
first Ozzmodius is clearly a judgemental jack ass so we can't use him as a baseline for anything because his entire thing is lust, meaning he likely is expected to judge anyone in a relationship, especially an unusual one. second to this point Beelzebub is the demon of gluttony, and that doesn't just mean food that means overindulgent in everything, over indulging in rare relations would definitely fit.
second, you mention lunas reaction, as too simple, but she seems very nervous and awkward, which fits perfectly for "ohh fuck my crush is dating a god" and you say no one says anything but who would. It's a party of hellhounds basically surrounded by their god if we follow the theory that Beelzebub made them.
third, we have no idea how the cast system actually works, imps, hellhounds, and anything else could be at the bottom just because they were made instead of born originally which puts into question what the cast system actually means. this would just prove that Ozzy is a judgmental dick just because he's the sin of lust.
From what I can tell, the caste system is less about demon racism and is simply about who is more powerful.
Also, from the season two trailer, you can see newspaper articles talking about how Ozzy is a hypocrite. From what we can tell, this is talking about his relationship with Fizz because it isn’t purely lustful. No one really seems to care that Ozzy is dating an imp, they just seem to care that he has a loving relationship to begin with.
Helluva Boss has reached this point where I don't understand what the hell we're doing. What's the point of a caste system if it only applies to a single pairing (Blitzo and Stolas) and everyone else can get away with dating or interacting with their lessers like it's no big deal.
This, the classism should be done better and make that clearer, other shows like Edgerunners do far better and make the point lower class dont get what those higher up get and we should see Loona denied the vet and no access to say a Smartphone, same as Blitz and there should have been a consequence for his business and having the Sinners' money being monitored by higher up Demons, hell there should be a Demon Surveillance System in Pride via magical stuff especially if humans are not supposed to reach the Elevator.
Please continue rambling, I completely agree and I'm interested to hear more from you. I would prefer a more organized script though, but still I enjoyed listening to your thoughts.
As someone who doesnt follow vivziepop on any social media, and doesnt follow any writters or animators and quite honestly isnt that involved with the fandom.
I somehow completely missed the worldbuilding? As in, i had no idea there were different levels of hell. I know they do mention "he is probably in wrath" "i grow up here in greed" and stuff like that, but my autistic self always took that literally. As in "he's in wrath" = "he is super mad" or "i grew up in greed" = "i grew up being taught to be greedy" 😭
It might also be because english is my second language and i didnt know that the words greed, wrath...etc were specifically the words for the 7 deadly sins but still idk, its weird that the concept of levels of hell werent really explained in the show and simply casually mentionned. I have a hard time imagining that someone that isnt familiar with christianity would comprehend it.
As well as i didnt know that these characters were a big deal, like the rulers of the levels 😳 i might have missed a throw away line about it or even an explaination but i had no ides they were a big deal.
Like not to stignmatise or anything but seeing a character entertain for a s*x club and another being seen throwing an average teen party with cotton candy seeming to be a metaphor for dr*gs didnt make me think they were supposed to be higher on the social hierarchy than literal royals.
I know they have the literal names of the ruler of hell but i grew up in an extremist christian religion and we didnt believe in hell, and we were forbidden to learn anything about demons. So i had no idea who osmodeus was 😂 i just thought it was a cool name lol
Wow, guy.
This series fucks up a lot of things when it comes to basic explanation, consistency, character work...but it sounds like you're just kind of unobservant.
This is also my experience with the show, I miss all this big world-building since they don’t mention it in the show.
I have a bit of a problem with the whole storytelling in general lately.
Best example for me is Stella. I was intrigued at first why she was so.. awful and evil to Stolas. There has to be a reason for it. Like disappointment in her childhood or something.
But no. Nothing. The latest episode with her even portraied her with no personality at all anymore. Just a bumbling, grumpy old cahoot. Nothing else.
And that is pissing me off a lot now. Exploring her backstory on WHY she is evil, would have been important. Like this it is just absolute lazy writing and nothing else.
Worldbuilding there is important. Exploring it is even more so. Ignoring it.. is bad. Very bad.
But in general i more and more kinda hate how it turns this way.
Already noticed the decline there on the divorce episode. Since it kinda showed that they just try to make Stella evil for the sake of being evil.
Completely ignoring the fact that Stolas isn't a saint himself.
I am not saying either that it is good that Stella treats Stolas that way. Obviously not. But ignoring it that Stolas messed up himself and even gets praised as some kind of hero for it is.. disgusting in my eyes. Promoting his behavior like that.
The biggest problem is that Octavia is the one who has to endure it all. And even there Stolas messed up massively. Yet Stolas walks away without much of a scratch on this while Stella constantly gets the boot on it.
I of course also understand that Helluva Boss is more promotion LGBQT+ things, but if they continue on with Stella like this (and other characters who were not queer or at least have no storytelling that they are) makes me more and more believe that Vivzie is trying to say anything non LGBQT is automatically bad and evil.
It was what a friend of mine pointed out that most of the time it is women who get the short stick in stories if they are portraied as non LGBQT themselves. But i do not want to say it would be like that myself, since there is not enough evidence to support that claim (yet). There were also queer characters who got killed off.
In short.
I wish Vivzie would focus more on actually telling background stories about characters that are important also in the story, even if they are not the main characters, since it matters if they aren't just some random people that die get killed of all the time.
And because i know someone is going to write it.
Yes. What Stolas father did to him was awful. But it is/was not uncommon to marry off your children to improve your own standing or gain more power/land.
But there is a right way and a wrong way to go about this if you are in such a situation. And Stolas somehow managed to find a worse way than wrong to go about it.
In the end it is their daughter who has to live with the aftermath on her reputation and needs to fix it, just because Stolas couldn't arrange himself with Stella properly to find a solution that made both happy.
Of course in the end it is just Vivzie trying to make a story out of it to fit it, but it feels rushed. Since it just ends up harming the characters in the long run storywise, digging herself a shit load of pitfuls of mistakes she could fall into later on trying to go deeper into the story.
"...makes me more and more believe that Vivzie is trying to say anything non LGBTQ is automatically bad and evil."
What are you talking about? The most wholesome, non-toxic relationship in the entire series, the M&Ms Millie and Moxxie, aka. "couple goals" aka. the shining example for all other relationships to aspire to, are a traditionally married hetero couple (yes, Moxxie is technically bi, but he's nonetheless currently in a committed heteronormative relationship with Millie, who for all we know is and always has been straight). Whereas if anything, I'd argue the biggest queer relationship in the whole series, that of Blitz and Stolas, is also portrayed as one of the most toxic and unhealthy, not to mention the one that is almost entirely driven by lust (at least initially), thus perpetuating the stereotype that LGBTQ people are sex-crazed degenerates.
Keep in mind I'm not accusing Vivzie of anything, nor am I defending her choices or motivations, those are things I can only speculate about, but I think it's a stretch to say the series demonizes non LGBTQ relationships when Millie and Moxxie are, like, *right there.*
@@Spectra651 This is exactly why i wrote i am split on it. Did you even read what i wrote?
Besides that. Your example also includes a couple who are both Bisexual. Therefore they are part of LGBTQ.
They might resemble a straight couple right now, but both would not have a problem with same sex relationships.
I said purely straight relationships. Meaning both male and female are straight, not bisexual, not gay, no nothing.
You got yourself a new subscribers as this was very well put together (would be flattered and honoured to also have you as subscribers but enough plugging)
I think the is one possibility that could explain it. This being that Beelzebub is so high ranking she is untouchable as i don't know if they will carry over Beelzebub extra title into the show but Beelzebub in Demonology is also fashioned as President Of Hell and the main role that entails is to entertain hell while Lucifer is on earth. So possibly if this carried over it could be explained Beelzebub. But as it stands its very confusing because like you method Hell is a very strick cast systems with very little wiggle room.
Another reason why it’s a bigger deal with blitzo and stolas is cause the ars goetia are classist they believe that they are at the top. Blitzø being made fun of is cause he’s at the lowest and anyone and everyone can call him out. Vortex on the other hand is protected by verosika and bee (verosika for her popularity and vortex being her bodyguard. Bee cause she’s a sin and can do whatever she wants)
I recommend watching people's videos on the new episode because they actually go deep into it and actually make a ton of good points.
Which perfectly contrasts the fanbases autistic screeching that anyone who criticizes the show is just a 'hater'.
I love how you handled the hate comments like a boss before you even started to talk about the episode! I personally liked the episode but it’s okay that everyone sees it differently. After all. We’re all strangers living in different places with different interests. Like, I LOVE parts of the song cotton candy but some parts… Well, I just straight up skip 'em. So if I see a video about why someone hates a show that I love I just don’t comment or give it that much attention. But I love how you handled this beginning! I’m gonna subscribe to you ones I’ve watched the entire vid.
I have a few disagreements on your take.
First and foremost who is going to criticize Beelzebub and own territory about who she's dating territory whose population mainly consists of hellhounds?
Second she says that she's proud to be considered an "ass" so she wouldn't care what people say about her relationship with vortex
And third for Luna's reaction she is a very uncomfortable situation that she's not used to being at the party and the top it off the guy that she likes is dating the price of the highest position in gluttony you only see no come out of mouth would be what she see and not what she thinks
And lastly all the Lords of Hell except Lucifer usually seems to resembles the main species of demons from their rings
this is my opinion but I think vortex met bee through verosika. They both sing and drink and are both pretty popular so that may have opened a path to the 2 characters.
I'm gonna be honest I think if they simply said or implied that certain rings were more chaotic like greed and pride being crazy than others and that was just a ring with nothing going on or that since beezlebub is part hell hound she made her party a safe place for other hellhounds? maybe? I dunno bro I feel like feeding us little sentences (not major lore dumping) or telling us a tiny bit of into could help the world building out by a grand scale. I can somewhat forgive them if they forget a few things here and there but I really hope this kinda stuff doesn't happen in hazbin hotel.
i think it has to do with the fact that the helhounds are her people just like how every ring has its people there they are more respected than anywere else. or atleast i would think seeing as she throws a party for the helhounds. i dont really know and if that is not the case i completely agree with you.
i’ve heard a theory that each of the sins are associated with one of the levels, like beelzebub is associated with hell hounds, no idea if it’s true or not but that might be an explanation for bee and tex
I mean, its hell. Do you expect there to be a concrete government system? No! It's just parts of hell judge other parts of hell.
There's literally jails and fire fighters in hell.....
@@witherslayer-7315exactly. Why is there a law system in hell that is very close to regular Earth.
@@witherslayer-7315 There's also a legal system of some kind considering the copyright dispute between Lucifer and Mammon.
@@Corrector1 Okay I need to ask something, why is there a copyright dispute when Lucifer is literally the KING OF HELL? It's stupid and makes no sense, Mammon cant do anything.
I just think Viz cares more about Hazbin Hotel than Helluvaboss. It's like how Dave Filoni crashed Mandalorian Season 3 because he is far more attentive in working on the Ahsoka show. However, it should be noted that Beezelbub and Asmodeus face no consequences for dating Hellborn because they are too powerful and frightening to anger. To be honest, most of the Hellborn are far more decent people than the Sinners and Ars Goetia (well the owl humanoids marry their own kind). I mean who else would they date? In addition, Helluva Boss' focus is on the Hellborn, and most of the locations owned by the Seven Deadly Sins are regularly visited by Hellborn. Hazbin Hotel focuses on the Sinners who are imprisoned in the Pride Ring and cannot enter the other rings of Hell for unknown reasons. Because of this, the Exorcists only invade the Pride Ring, not the other rings. Hellborn in the Pride Ring would leave the Pride Ring whenever the extermination happens, but Sinners cannot leave, and they have to hide or defend themselves until it is over.
Ngl I do agree that it makes it feel small that Vortex is dating Beelzebub, like it’s kinda random.
But I think it makes some sense (even if I find it a bit overused), Loona saying “oh shes-“ then cutting herself off feels like kind of a “I’m not going to acknowledge it” moment.
And for me i think that, like how imps originate in the wrath wring, hellhounds originate in the Gluttony ring. Which likely means that they have a status there that they don’t have in other rings. This also might be the case with her dating Vortex. And it feels a bit flimsy but they call Asmodeus “the weakest Sin” and are even willing to push him around. It’s clear that Beelzabub isn’t viewed the same, and I think they view it as ok since she’s also, technically, a hellhound and rules the ring where they were created.
I don't see this as a contradiction at all. She is the embodiment of indulgences and second only to Lucifer. She's only limited by how much she herself cares about others perceptions of her
Here's the thing, we don't know what most of the higher castes think of Bee or her relationship with Tex. We've only seen her in the context of this one episode and she's only surrounded by imps and hellhounds who would see it as a positive. It could very well be that outside of Gluttony, everyone looks down on her.
Maybe they keep the relationship on the down low when not in Gluttony. It's not like Tex announced who she was when he first mentioned he had a girlfriend. They just can be free with it in the company of other hounds.
It's only just been recently that we've really seen bigotry toward imps within Hell itself. Mostly because we only just started to really see the imps interact with people who make it clear it's a race based issue. Previously negative comments have been from Blitz's jilted ex, heavenly cherubs and Stolas' cheated on royal wife, so it always came off as personal issues (or demons vs angels) rather than cultural ones. We hear about it from Striker, but don't see the caste based bigotry in play until Ozzie's.
It's also important to note that bigotry in the real world isn't always evenly applied. Wealth and pretty privilege do exist. It's not fair, but it is what it is. Hollywood stars go out and buy ethnic babies from other counties, one of each kind, and are praised but your coworker adopts a kid that doesn't look exactly like her and it's a huge office scandal. People have different standards for behavior depending on who you are.
Edit: I do agree that the fandom is too sensitive to criticism. I got into it with someone all because I said I didn't like one detail in Bee's design. Like, it's not even that big of a deal. I even said I liked the rest of it and I didn't hate the episode or anything. Chill people.
But I reserve judgement on the lore being broken until it's expanded on in more depth in show.
Woow what did you said that got you into a fight
@@Nevae_696 All I said is that I didn't think the blue, spiky top part of Bee's hair worked that well with the rest of her design. Someone had to come in and keyboard warrior over it. Like dude, it's just an opinion about a cartoon design and not even a harsh one.
@@aprilvaiarella435 oh weird guy
@@aprilvaiarella435 you know what I think you actually have good point it would been more bee like if it was yellow like honey
@@Nevae_696 There are several points in the song, and when she goes off on Loona, that her color palette changes so that the blue chunk turns white or another better matched color and it looks much better. The blue works nice as an accent color, not the central focus. The rest of her design is killer and the character herself was a lot of fun.
I don't mind if people disagree with me, it's just a personal preference, but some people take it too far and feel the need to defend everything in the show.
I think its a bigger deal when it comes to Ozzie/Fizz is that the Ars Goetia are a very classist part of hell, and Ozzie is supposed to fully dislike the idea of love, even though he appears to love Fizz. Its more about the hypocrisy of it all that seems to be coming up in a future episode, possibly S2 E6; its shown that Fizz and Ozzie get cuddly in public, and it pops up in a newspaper :)
Bee is Gluttony. This kind of indulgent behavior and dating anyone she wants, who give a fuck, is expected of her. Asmodeus is Lust, and a stable, loving relationship is not expected of someone of his station and area of power. Hell, he criticizes the M&Ms for just that. That he's in a loving relationship with Fizzaroli would be scandalous for someone in his position.
Huh. Good vid, I was a little confused about that too.
No no, you aren’t rambling. KEEP GOING.
Sarcastic chorus did a great video that better explains a few possibilities for it
I think Bee is allowed to date a hellhound because no one can stop her. She is one of the seven deadly sins, only another sin or lucifer himself could stop her. And everyone else would get annihilated by her if they dare to criticize her.
Tbh, the Worldbuilding in this show was always broken from day one lol
I agree
I agree with your criticism, but I did like Sarcastic Chorus's theories and I think/hope that the secret bad side of her does explain both her closeness to the "peasents" and having an affair with a "peasent". She made a lot of clear and less clear implications that the hellhounds are slaves (saying at the fruit bowl part to keep making the honey and than that line of "let them eat cake" in the song. I don't know if it is just for the song or is there plot behind it.
Eh I don't think it implies slavery, she just literally feeds on the energy from people indulging in gluttony. The parties are what feeds her but it also keeps the people happy so it's kind of like symbiotic relationships between animals on earth.
If you need the fans to step in and explain away the rampant holes in your world building and narrative you've COMPLETELY FAILED at telling a story.
I totally agree with all your points however, Bel’s song was her literally drugging up her party guests because she’s gluttony. Most of the hell hounds are probably too high off their asses to even remember what happened
Very unreliable excuse tbh. There were people like Loona who didn't drink at all and Bel didn't even attempt drugging her, too. Besides, if this were to be the case this should have been explored in the episode or made clear in some way, but... it never was.
This kinda revelation makes me want to consider episode 8 not cannon to the series just from the many questions it brings up about the social classes, also considering this is to be considered a bonus episode it's safe to bet that we'll not gonna see Bee again.
Maybe it's something to the fact that's a sin and is higher in the cast system than everyone else, thus can't be judged for it
I wondered if Bee has more power among the 7 b/c her’s is the 3rd ring. However, the only basis I have for this idea is that Lucifer is the king & runs the 1st ring, Pride. I have no other evidence to support this. But, if I’m right, then that could be another reason why she can do this so casually & Ozzie can’t. He runs Lust (Ring 5); he is literally lower on the totem pole than Bee.
The annoying thing is that I have to wonder about this at all. My first question after the episode was literally how Vortex could be dating Bee period. We need a boatload of world building to explain this & make it make sense.
When i watched the episode i didnt thing Bee was THE Belzebub , i only got it when people pointed it out plus rewatching it.
My thoughts:
1 i saw a video and there it kinda talked that maybe the Greed ring is more accepting to Hellhounds wich if we go from the episode in the party there only Hellhounds and some Imps at the party so the relationahip between Bee and Vortex there is more accepting --what got me interest at this point is that Helladoption is full with unwanted children that may be due to the parties that Bee throw and in Lunas adoption certificate it was signed by Belzebub , so that is indeed an interesting key point
2 we know from liked clips that Asmodeus will be dragged for having a relation with Fiz (who is an Imp) so all the people justifing and sayingGoetia are more stuk up and that why the relationship Stolas has with Bliz is more frowned upon are shooting blanks , cuz Asmodeus is also a sin so the same reaction would Bee and Vortex get (tho they are a cute couple)
3 you mean to tell me the bf of the sin of glutony would be a mere bodygard to a recent celebrity that came from reehab ? Like dam wouldnt she throw a bone to like facilitate Vortex a more better job that being Verosikas Hellhpund bodygard (we only saw Hellhounds used a body gards , Helladoption center and Loona is a secretary of sorts , but theres not much options for them compared to Imps)
4 i like the show and how it inspired people to do there own thing i love the reimagined takes artist do of the characters 💜
Some issues i have personally thatll shoot her in the foot kater: this is a soin off series for a series we havent even seen yet. One who was uppose to be more lore heavy than THIS series. One thats supoose to be more SERIOUS rhan this one. And yet she keeos running arpund trying to have her basically after party series before the main party begins.
I actually prefer that they dont make a big deal out of her dating a hellhound
oh yeah I really don't understand the story at all I'm literally just here for the colours I didn't even realise it was season 1 episode 8 until today I thought it was a continuation of season 2 bc apparently I don't read
I understand your confusion about Bee and Tex and I was confused too. Honestly though, I think that the rules about dating may just be stricter with the Ars Goetia, who seem to care a lot more about status than the princes. As others have pointed out, people could be judging but may just not want to say anything cause Bee is a Sin.
I didn't finish watching the video, i agree with most points said, but there's an unreleased episode (still in the works) thats going to be all about Fizz and Asmodeus getting caught, and how they're basically called hypocrites. Although i do feel like the only reason why is because they absolutely shat on Stolas and Blitz. And from this, maybe there's nothing wrong with dating somebody from a lesser rank? Maybe in episode 7 everybody was shitting on stolas and blitz because of blitz having enemies, so they were just being assholes, that and the goetia are assholes and they're VERY specific with relationships. I don't think beezlebub dating a hellhound is an issue, and neither does anybody else because it's probably nothing bad or scandalous in their world. And i mean who else are the seven princes going to date? The only ranks they can date are hellborn, imps, and hellhounds since they cant date lucifer, charlie, or lilith (obviously), they can but obviously they won't date sinners, they CAN date goetia (but it'd be complicated due to the way the goetia views relationships. And yes I know asmodeous is a goetia). All thats left is Hellhounds, Imps, and the hellborn.
First I would want to say Beelzebub is a bee-fox according to the staff and thus not a hellhound - Not taking an image akin to a hellhound. She's really "that close" on her own. (well the larger form is likely her ACTUAL form and far more distant in comparison to the "lowly" hellhounds. - But thats beside the point)
The caste system ISN"T Strict.
at least in my perspective to whats been shown.
Its not just a single instant in Ozzie's episode. Its definitely multiple instants.
Ozzie is very concerned with Fizz's health after Millie crushs him into the ground.
Ozzie sells Toy-botic replicas of Fizz (an imp) to VARIOUS classes of hellborn demons, including imps like the one who Fizz wants kept away from him cause that imp has FOUR pleasure bots.
Yes. Fizz has been modified, Its Not enough to make him on par with a Goetia, in rank, let alone Asmodeus, though.
Other Hellborn clearly are not SUPER strict on the ranking even within the lower classes, YES, There are SOME who are clearly outwardly bigoted, But example - Verosika Dated Blitz, A higher class hellborn, succubus, and an imp. Its clear that there's been some Shark Imps, Some other Cubi-Imp like the Bouncer (at least by looks) etc.
and Its also clear, That Ozzie doesn't really dislike Love and even Moxxie's Love Song, THAT MUCH. Yes. The image is maintained by the end of the bit, but, Fizz and Ozzie as you showed, cuddle up listening to it, and the crowd at the club also clap to it. "aww it sickens me" ain't really how Ozzie feels. They very much likely gathered that Moxxie was going to sing a love song long before Moxxie got up on stage. He was PERMITTED to be an opening act. Fizz and Ozzie were going to have fun with Moxxie from the get go. And because Ozzie is the embodiment of Lust, Moxxie, a lowly imp, would eventually, Bow out or bark along.
But Moxxie did neither.
It felt like Ozzie and Fizz were about to ramp up their mocking of Moxxie or force him to bow out, and then Blitz defended them.
TWO PEOPLE WERE CHALLENGING... ASMODEUS?! IN THE HOUSE OF LUST.... AND THEY WERE JUST IMPS?! What the heeellllllll naahh... and Fizz interjects first to immediately discredit Blitz. Then Verosika chimes in. Which immediately puts Fizz's claims into question, because Damn, Blitz Dated Verosika? A star of Hell? Damn... But then Verosika swings it back around to shittalk Blitz, too.
But after THAT.
just who did Blitz show up to this couples only with?
Oh my... is.. that a fucking demon prince? Not bad.. wait. These 4 are challenging Asmodeus still.
So Stolas you gonna have to catch these hands.
Oh how the mighty have fallen. A Goetia. With an Imp.
Not
That Stolas is cheating
Not. That just "any higher rank of demon" is with an imp, Since clearly, All the way up to Charlie, who is dating a Sinner Demon, Has no REAL issue sleeping with an imp
Its very Contextually because.
Stolas is a Goetia.
The Goetia Don't Mix with the Lower class.
its all they have to really sell their authority.
That the Ars Goetia are Pure-bred High Class "powerful" demons.
That the Goetia treat lower class like shit.
That's What Asmodeus is swinging at. Stolas is a Goetia. And His "High and Mighty" status is going out the door. Ozzie probably is ALL FOR something LIKE Stolitz.
However.
Blitz and Moxxie aren't playing lustful ball
And their dates are catching strays.
"His unsatisfied wife" For Moxxie and his Date.
and for Stolas, being targeted cause a Goetia is bedding an Imp. Oh sure. He brings up the smoking hot wife and kid. But. Thats more part of the Goetia standards than picking at him for cheating, It is hell after all.
And Moxxie's song made it apparent too. WE Just didn't REALIZE that it made it apparent, until we saw this episode.
But Hell already knows
That "Beelze Loves her bub"
and that hell probably already knows, That Charlie, Hell's Princess, flirts with Vaggie on the backstage before the interview/Hotel promo
And that Asmodeus is thrusting around with "someone lower class than a Goetia" Whether they know more is indeed debateable. But.
The point is.
The hierarchy isn't so rigid and strict.
Its really only the Goetia that are "hellbent" on rank. And the Goetia DO make some things GO in Hell, They're not "just for show" but they're also not well. One of the deadly sins. Which is likely why, they're so hellbent on rank. Why everyone bows to a Goetia, but is capable of having a conversation with a deadly sin. Because They're borderline. They're the bottom rung of high-class. There are Overlords and sinner demons like Alastor, Who could probably wipe the floor with at least a few Goetia, Like Stella,
and I imagine later on. That Asmodeus will (pretty non-forcefully) actually back up Stolitz (as in it won't take much, if its even presented as an issue at all, for Asmodeus to Either be defending the relation with Fizz, or be directly on board). That the only real issue from the previous episode, was that The four of them " had to catch these hands" There was a back and forth confrontation, and Stolas had to catch strays, because the one being challenged, was a deadly sin, On his own turf. And not till catching Ozzie's hands, did Wally exclaim he was sleeping with an imp
The waitress imp before being called out By Ozzie? Offered to service both Blitz and Stolas.... accidentally, Smile.
The Bouncer who seemed to be an imp/cubi mix - Bowed out, no further confrontation.
And nobody really picked them apart afterwards either, They uneventfully walked out of the establishment.
So I really don't think Asmodeus disliked the love song
Don't think Asmodeus really cares that Stolas is with an Imp, Good for him
Don't Think Hell cares THAT much on the caste ranks. But they DO exist, and its mostly a Power-ranking system. Overlords are mostly Sinner Demons. The thing that separates them is power. Alastor is absurdly powerful, Thats what puts him at the tier of overlord whether he goes with it or not. Stolas can turn an imp to stone just by looking at them wrong. Whether it can be so effortlessly done to a sinner or other Goetia remain to be seen, but, it is definitely "power", that at LEAST some Goetia have, So far just Stolas.
And Don't think Beelze and her bub are that big of a surprise, a surprise, sure, cause we didn't know who her bub was, But, In their universe, its not "unknown" - Loona doesn't get out much. Moxxie knew. It was in Moxxie's song that he Loves Millie more than Beelze loves her bub. Blitz also didn't make a big deal over it..
I think beeelzebub doesn’t really care about if anyone cares she’s the sun of gluttony she’s supposed to be overindulging including in her mindset she could have anyone she wants be prefers the lowest rank I think they serves as a foil for stolitz and fizz and ozzie
From what I’ve come to understand and this is mostly due to another RUclipsr the virtual celebrity (please do not go after her for anything she’s an amazing RUclipsr and is just stating her opinion) there are two reasons why bee-lzebub isn’t cared about much. 1 she’s gluttony it’s normal to overindulge in things so dating a hellhound is overindulge in something. 2 she’s one of the seven rulers of hell the only ones above her are Lucifer and his family, who’s gonna call them out it’s like a peasant telling a king to not do something. Even Asmodeus the sin of lust is out messing around with fizz in a more romantically/sexual way
She’s a fox/Hellhound form so it shouldn’t matter that much atleast that’s what I think
Or maybe the top hats dont Care . The rules are not for them, but by them.
I mean, all of this is assuming the 7 sins are tangled into any of the political mumbo-jumbo of hell, let's remember this episode was literally written to be watched right next to the one with Ozzie's, so it seems to me this was meant to show a dichotomy rather than break it. It makes more sense to me to think all this chaste thing only involves the ars goetia, and besides, I noticed the trend of each race in hell being like a mini-version of a sin, maybe Bee counts as a hellhound and that's why it's not controversial. But I have to give it to you, we should've seen into any of it.
Interesting, I wonder if they are going to double down on this hypocrisy or of they are going to retcon it or address it later? Ether way, I don’t know what to say now, so I’ll leave it at that.
I'm 90% sure that Bee won't be mentioned in the show again, because they got Ke$ha to voice her, so it... won't be easy to get her back (and she can't even sing songs, so yeah)
yall are forgetting one simple thing Asmodeus is lust ,he mocked Stollas because he "sold his life for a thurst" it's in his nature to make such comments. While The other 6 i doubt they will care that much as they are different from lust. It does makes sense just look deeper.
Lucifer and the rest of the Sin Princes don’t have to follow the rules 🤷🏾♀️ Stolas is apart of Hellborn nobility so they have to follow the rules to maintain power.
I don’t think that it destroys the woordbuilding, One of your argument is that no one says anything, but who would, there is 1, maybe 3, people who have more power then her, and 5 others who are equals. You also bring up Lonna’s reaction twice, but there seems to be two levels of uncomfortably, one that is she still crush’s hard over Tex, and that she’s a princess of hell.
That’s the not the best argument for those two points but it’s 0330 hours and i oughta get to bed, thanks for reading, this was a good video and you made good points,
“Have I played the part well? Then applaud as I exit” -Augustus
1:45 I think queen bee is making a exemption because as one of the 7 deadly sins she feels can do whatever she wants
Asmodeus is one of the 7 deadly sins, too, yet he has to lie about his relationship with Fizz, who is higher class than a hellhound.
She may but she acts immature and childish.
Nah but her being a sparkle dog is a good thing though fr
Also I agree I hope they bring this up and go further into it.
I agree with the world building bit, but if i see any more slander on bee's design I'm hurting someone
1. Is it ever ESTABLISHED IN THE SHOW ITSELF that higher-ups aren't allowed to/supposed to date down? And given the system they operate on, wouldn't only the higher ups opinions on the matter be the only ones that actually... well, matter? Now for the Goetia's/people at that level or class, I can see how something like that could cause public scrutiny, outcry, issues, etc. But Lords/Deadly Sins? Don't they have like "I literally don't have to give a fuck what anyone says or thinks" status?
2. I saw one comment before saying that it's probably due to the environment they're in, perhaps? The entire party is nothing but hellhounds & imps that Beelzebub *invited* them all to; wouldn't it kinda make sense that, given their status (or lack thereof), most if not all of them wouldn't only not care but might actually champion that sort of thing? Since this is her first episode and the only one we've seen her in, and imps and hellhounds are the only people we've seen her around, it's a pretty interesting argument, I think.
All i can say that Vivz and her team just do what they want and not what they need to do. They absolutely don't care because they already doing what they all desire. All dirty and cruel jokes, any shipping, etc in a wrapper of "good" tv show
My unbiased hypothesis is that the hellhounds see it as a good thing that one of their lower cast members is dating a Sin Prince, so they say nothing and are neutral towards Vortex, who is safe from paparazzies as long as he is in Gluttony Ring and keeps a low, quiet profile outside Beelzebub's region. Bee on the other hands just sees hellhounds as her demons/workers/property, to which she can do whatever she wants: Have the most attractive one as her lover, throw parties where the hounds get accidentally pregnant so she can sell their puppies, or make them produce her "honey" or whatever it is she feeds on or gets her powers from.
I mean it was a hellhound party, there was only hellhounds there why would they be upset. It does feel really odd. But I’m just gonna hope they explain it somehow.
As long as you used to like it you still like it in my book. Play my humble opinion I think it's a good show but yeah it is getting a little lazy now.
Ars Goeta are middle ground of royalty, so they have to act like higher class. Sins on the other hand can do what ever they want, in ep6s2 Ozzie is callout on that relationship but for being a hipocrite not the relationship
well theres actually some worldbuilding in mario cartoons minus the DK shorts.