Four things that leave a bad taste in my mouth: 1. I cannot get past the fact that Charlie took CRAYON drawings to a diplomatic meeting that had the potential to decide the fate of countless people. It would have been funny if it was supposed to make her look like the joke she is, but it seems much more likely that it was meant to make her seem innocent and charming. It doesn’t, it makes her look incompetent. 2. Alastor is pathetic and sad to watch. He had a great vibe in the pilot. He was chaotic, in control, and mysterious. In the actual show, he is consistently shown to be insecure, desperate to establish dominance, and trying way too hard when it comes to his “creepy” persona. It’s cringy. Vivizie did mention it was hardest to write Alastor and it really shows. 3. I will never get over the cannibals. In a dark comedy, yeah, go ahead and recruit cannibals. That would be hilarious. But Charlie wants the moral high ground. Cannibalism is not the way to go for that. 4. I cannot believe yet more people have watched these public videos and subscribed to this public channel that is only for me. How dare you. I was never expecting to like the show, but it still interested me especially since I’ve known about Vivzie for a long time and liked some of her past projects. Nothing could have prepared me for how confused and poorly structured it turned out to be. On a final note, to all those who have subscribed, I hope you know what you’ve gotten into by joining this crew. Jazz may hold the title “captain”, but *I* control the systems of this ship, and you have started this voyage by making me very unhappy. It was bad enough that Jazz has been trying to pay me in tokens for a restaurant chain that doesn’t even exist in our branch of the universe (I don’t know how she got them), but now I have to deal with this as well. There is only so much disrespect I will take. Keep that in mind. >:(
@@ghostandjazz oh don't worry, I'm here to stay, Jazz has an awesome personality and her videos are entertaining!! As for your critiques, I totally agree there!
@@OneClassicalLass i decided to look into it, that information was given by Faustisse, who is one of the main writers, during a live stream called "💖 HAZBIN HOTEL FASHION STREAM for the COMICS!! 💖" That has been archived. This is so unbelievably pathetic, but it adds as to why Charlie doesn't work. Examples of "innocent to the point of cuteness" type characters are Luz from Own House and Mabel from Gravity falls, however they both have a distinct feature that Charlie doesn't, they are children. If a child does something like using crayon drawings in a pitch meeting then its cute, if an adult uses crayon drawings in a pitch meeting then its cringe.
16:37 As a former "adult movie" actor, the way they portray people like poor victims is a bit degrading I never was a victim, but of my own poor choices. I'm old now, and it's been 30 years that I'm not in that lifestyle anymore. And I'm grateful for this. It's not what people imagine, not fun at all. It gives young people a bad idea of what it really is.
@@SurnaturalM Glad you got out of that, I'm young and I've heard that the adult film industry is a nightmare, I don't know how more youth like me think it's 'fun' and all that crap, God bless you!
That's really the core problem with Angel Dust as a character, the writing is so...immature. he's a porn star and a stripper and a prostitute and a slut and also a victim of SA...oh and of course don't forget a user of hard drugs because all those things are basically the same. That isn't to say of course someone can't be a few of those things at once but the show treats it like it all goes hand in hand with each other like a child trying way too hard to be edgy
There is one plot twist they could do that would impress me: Heaven isn’t heaven, it’s purgatory, and it’s full of people who have given up on self betterment. Nobody knows how to get to actual heaven because they’re all resting on their laurels and looking down on hell because “at least they aren’t there” the twist is revealed when sir pentious, having already seen the benefits of improving his behavior, becomes the first person to go from purgatory to heaven because he’s the only resident who works towards self betterment for its own sake.
I wouldn't want to beat a dead horse but talking about horses, My Little Pony Friendship is Magic had a better "house is destroyed" scene than Hazbin Hotel. And like, if this KIDS SHOW has more things to say about punishment, forgiveness and harmony than this ""adult"" show then STOP WRITING. Season 4 Episode Twilight's Kingdom Part 1. The villain, Tirek destroys Twilight's house and she barely saves her assistant/little brother and pet. And that is for sure impactful for her. That was her place in the town and she liked it being a library. The show didn't magically rebuilt it as "nothing happened". After the battle against Tirek a castle spawns out of nowhere but she doesn't fit there, doesn't want to be there wants her old home but that can't be turned back. So her friends use some of the remainings of her old house, to make decorations that make her remember her roots (literal roots because her old house was a tree, you see THIS is clever writing)
@maravreloaded I agree with you totally!! I would love if they would choose to stop do Hazbin since I'm also worried they might destroy Al since Al will get story in season 2 and I'm worried they will make him sympathetic broken anti hero like no way it wouldn't fit him! Let him be like he is! Evil psychopath cannibal which manipulates others! Yes he can have story like being abused by father but still be born as psychopath. Psychopaths can still be abused by parents but I don't want him to be forced into sympathic broken anti hero 😥
I only disagree with Star being an inspiring protagonist. She genocided every single being in the universe who's made up of magic. Star's done a crime worse than the majority of the Hazbin characters and it's painted as a good, noble thing by the narrative, ugh.
The finale of svtfoe was an absolute mess. As was Star in that last season. But I do blame the writers, rather than Star, for that. That's not the character they set up or wrote her as in the previous seasons.
@@jazzandghost Why do writers love doing that??? Making a good character at first in the beginning seasons, then I guess having their mind wiped and making the character act and be out of character in the last seasons??? That's so annoying.
I have my cannon: The story would make more sense if you the main character was Adam instead of Charlie, and he was trying to redeem the sinners he condemned for eating the apple that Lucifer gave him. And the one committing the genocide was Abel (his son), someone who has a reason to hate sinners (because he was killed by his brother, Cain). And the purpose of the genocide was sending sinners deeper and deeper into the rings of hell, for greater punishments.
Why it looks or feels so good?? XD I definitely agree Charlie is a horrible main character she is judging selfish hypocrite jerk which thinks only her can "understand" others
@ShriahAber I definitely agree!! She actually has narcisstic disorder I can say why but I dont know if yt will let me once I explained that to someone it was allowed but when I sent to someone else it was deleted ughh yt has issues
@@tomassmith1519 mystery is very intriguing, I heard from the grapevine that the angels being mysterious was actually more hinted at in the RUclips pilot? I wouldn't know, I haven't seen the pilot.
You wanna see something funny? Let Charlie be in the Hotel alone with the most evil, disgusting, heartless, irredeemable monsters in fiction history, like Frieza, Jack Horner, Kid Buu, Doomsday, Freddy Krueger, Carnage/Cletus Kassidy, Mahito and Dio. See how long it takes for her to snap and pull a Puss in Boots Jiminy Cricket on them. We'll see if EVERYONE is deserving of a second chance after that.
@@Stratoblast That would be a great idea.... This doesn't just go for fictional characters too... Could Charlie believe that Hitler could be redeemed? Stalin? Ted Bundy? Jeffery Dalmer? How far is she willing to take this? I need to know this.
Considering it’s implied guys like those are the norm in hell, she wouldn’t snap, or even budge slightly since she doesn’t know how to connect to any of them. So she’ll just keep assuming they’re just damaged for her to fix and keep giving them infinite chances to do better next time so long as they keep feeding her savior complex.
@@guerreiroazul3230"there's a CANNIBAL TOWN, there are soo many cannibals that they build up a town for them. If the camera turned left, it's propably right next to pedo village and hitler villa"
@@elmascapo6588 but they just an innocent babies 😥😥. they soooo sad in hell don't you see? they even stop fuck children on Tuesdays and burn jews on Saturdays, thats how they upset🤧🤧
As a Christian myself I knew I had to turn off my brain while watching Hazbin. But man does Heaven and the Angels being cast as the incompetent bad guys grind my gears. Apparently the Angels created heaven but they don’t know how people get into heaven!?? And for thousands of years they never seek to find out!?!? Almost as if they only created that plot point so Charlie could have the high ground and call out the ‘corrupt’ system of Heaven. And Charlie acting like the souls in hell are ‘poor uwu babies’ when she sees multiple horrible people doing multiple horrible things daily. It’s so aggravating how naive she is. It’s what makes Charlie my least favorite character.
As a Christian, I absolutely loathe Charlie Morningstar for being a spineless brat. No grown adult should behave like her, especially WOMEN. Women in my family were NOT spineless brats.
@@peachybunny1875 There’s not a lot of people saying this, but there is a headcanon that Charlie as autistic it’s not Canon, but it’s nice that autistic people can relate to a character like that and for you to say that a possibly neurodivergent character is a “spineless brat” and “no grown adult should behave like her, especially women” is kind of gross especially since there’s a lot of people who are undiagnosed with autism, especially women.
@@sailorstar3148 Charlie doesn't have autism it's not cannon bro not to mention nothing from autism fits her just one thing but that's all. What she said is true XD stop justify Charlie oh God
The way this show handles the morality of heaven and hell is embarrasing Why should anyone aspire to go to heaven where all the "good people" are, if the obviously villainous Adam is allowed for eons? And why should we get outta hell if there's actual chances of someone living a happy and fullfiling life? like the leader of the cannibals or the Vs?
@@guerreiroazul3230 Agreed. You know what would've helped this story? Nuance... If Vivzie added nuance and allowed the 'villains' to be correct, that would've helped this story! Because Plot wise- what Adam did wrong was disagree with Charlie.... But that's about it. He was a strawman and in a sense, so was Sera. His personality sucks sure, but it's not like he killed innocents, and given that Hell has the ability to grow to the point where they could overtake heaven, Adam killing some of the denizens of Hell is understandable! I wouldn't want cannibals, murderers etc to overrun my land either! But from what I've heard, Vivzie didn't want the villains to have a good point. She wanted them to be wrong, no matter how stupid it would seem in the final product. When Charlie was questioning the angels on how they had no idea what gets people redeemed and accepted into heaven, I'm thinking: "Would it have been so hard to add nuance and make the "bad guys" correct here? Have Sera or Adam actually know what it takes to get into heaven, and proceed to kill Charlie's defense for Angel Dust." Vivzie didn't even allow Sera to argue her points, when Charlie and Emily were singing that stupid song, she wasn't able to get a good point across, because that would require NUANCE and would immediately kill Charlie's argument. Would it have been to much to give the antagonists the upper hand and moral high ground here? Would it have killed Vivzie to allow Sera to give Charlie AND Emily (because she doesn't know any better.) a stern rebuke with good points? Because there are two sides to one coin! (I personally love it when the hero tries to argue with the villain and the villain claps back with good points- Example: No straight roads! When May and Zuke confronted Tatiana, they tried to kill her points, but she killed theirs instead showing them how they were doing the EXACT SAME THING she was doing, and it was glorious to watch her be proven right! Why? Because that causes the hero to look into their own actions.) If Sera knew what got beings in heaven and had given Charlie a verbal smackdown on HER lack of knowledge, that would've been interesting! Nuance would've killed that entire scene with Charlie in heaven because if Sera was RIGHT and KNEW what got beings in heaven, and told Charlie that Angel Dust's actions weren't good enough- that would be interesting!!! But that would require the 'villains' (I don't see Sera as a villain honestly.) to be correct! That would require Nuance! And I don't think Vivzie wants to do that... The 'Villains' of Hazbin Hotel fail for similar reasons the villain of Wish fails.... Lack of Nuance. We don't really get to understand their side. And the underhanded sly tactic of never showing why the 'villain' is right. In Wish, we never saw a bad wish that would prove Magnifico's argument correct, in Hazbin Hotel, Vivzie straight up doesn't tell us what gets a soul into heaven as that would prove Sera's and Adam's points... But that would make the look understandable, and we can't have that. But what do you think?
@@OneClassicalLass I agree with everything that you said, especially the Sara part. Even if she doesn't know exactly what gets someone she should still have a pretty good idea of it because she has been in heaven for thousands of years. To me it's because of a lack of knowledge on the subjects at hand and a lack of desire to research more into it, vivzie's idea of "redemption" is just promising to be good, but she doesn't realize that to be redeemed you need to pay for something that you did, because you are redeeming yourself of an specific action. Take Sir Pentious for example, he has been redeemed, but why? And of what? The show never tells us, because to Vivzie it doesn't matter. But that's not fair to the people who got wronged by Sir Pentious when he was alive to see him going to heaven despite everything he's done to them, which is the crux of what Vivzie doesn't understand: mercy to the guilty can be cruelty to the victim. Take Angel Dust for example, he was a mob boss in his life, imagine how bad it would feel to the old lady that got drowned by Angel because she didn't pay the "protection" fee to see him in heaven with her just because he decided to stop abusing substances or whatever, it would feel awful. But nobody makes those arguments because Vivzie, and the rest of the staff, think that redemption = being a good person. And that's it, there isn't any nuance because the writers don't think there is nuance to it.
As a Christian myself the concept of her show I really like. Dammed people seeking redemption and exporting the themes of what that really means and if it can be done. But them making heaven the bad guys is where it lost me because what’s the point in getting out of hell if the people upstairs are just as bad. Also I don’t get the point of the overlords they have wealth and power and seem happy in their role where’s the punishment in that?
If you want to see this concept done right, read "The Great Divorce" by C.S. Lewis. Also, "The Screwtape Letters" is a better exploration into how demons work than either of Viziepop's stuff. Yes, any neat idea she had was already done better by a theologian whose been dead for 70 years.
Hazbin hotel should’ve been about rehab into a functional society. I view heaven like the wealthy town with good hospitals while hell is the crackhead town. Charlie was so insulting to Angel. You have a dr-g addict asking for help and u give trust fall exercise.
@@OneClassicalLass I agree and it's so worse! How insane protectors of Charlie cannot see that?? She doesn't wanna help others cause of joy or something like that She wanna help others cause she needs to or has to in order she would feel better about herself that's why started the hotel but the show shows like Charlie started the hotel cause cannot handle to see demons being killed ahem but it doesn't matter cause in the show it's even said that Charlie tries to work through her daddy issues by fixing people. So nope she wanna only feel better about herself it's not cause of altruist intentions Charlie is judging selfish hypocrite character. Charlie also never ever listened to Vaggie only twice but that's all she is bad girlfriend to Vaggie and bad supporter Vaggie has only Charlie and had a past she wasn't proud of and was worried about losing her but instead of understanding Vaggie Charlie talked about herself to Alastor like it's her being betrayed by her girlfriend! She even didn't give at least Vaggie space to let her explain it! Yes if she would be only hurted alright but how acted was totally out of her character She even treated Vaggie as some kind of monster like she would be worse than all sinners Charlie was so cold at Vaggie When said coldly about angelic weapons: If you would know that would you tell me? She acted like Vaggie would be her enemy and a monster Yes they made it then but only cause of Rosie help and it doesn't change a fact how acted with Vaggie She never ever protected Vaggie when others disrespected Vaggie only once she tried to protect at the end but that's all she forces Vaggie in doing something she doesn't wanna do and if Vaggie does it it's only cause of Charlie but we can clearly see Vaggie sounded felt like she would be forced It most of the time seems like Charlie takes an advantage of Vaggie to do something what Charlie wanna Vaggie deserves better in my opinion Charlie is worst person character the facts I said I'll not repeat it it's already in answers In why Chaggie is toxic She made feel Angel dust like he wouldn't matter when was proud of Sir Pentious but seriously!? Angel dust stayed for free room yes but he wanna redeem himself he just hides it or something like that but Sir Pentious didn't wanna redemption at the first place before he wanted to betray them only! Not to mention she made Angel dust play characters game and was shown he feels uncomfortable by it but Charlie just thinks she knows the best. And worse is that when Angel went after characters game up the stairs saddly Charlie saw she SAW ANGEL HOW WAS SAD!! And Charlie just in her mind: wow sad but as long as Sir Pentious wanna redeem himself I don't care. She didn't understand and respect Angels discomfort when Charlie came to his job cause of idiotic hotel! She was arrogant and even if ok she stayed but she wasn't quiet and was stupid enough to talk loudly to Travis about Hazbin Yes she said sorry but only cause how Angel dust screamed to Charlie it's with kids too when you scream at them and they cry and say sorry but don't know why but say sorry cause are screamed on And I know I'll repeat it again I'm sorry XD but she is toxic character she has trouble emotionally understanding the motivations and problems of other characters. - Self-reflection is missing, she only perceives her own one-sided view. - Empathy is rather superficial, she does not understand deeper human emotions. - Social interactions are difficult for her, she can't take a regard . - The world is divided into black and white, there is no complexity. even though she appears in the show as if she feels empathy like the pain of others but it's more superficial and it looks like she's focused on herself on her goal to change the demons end the extermination etc. Or about how others feel, for example sometimes Angel dust or sometimes mostly Vaggie and the other characters. Charlie is present with a selfish desire to pursue her dream at any cost without truly understanding the needs of others. Charlie is also selfish It was selfish of her how in the song Ready for this cannibals they sang about killing and how they will eat angels and Charlie just with a judgmental expression: ehh Well that's a little violent can we tone it down? Like what? Yes Charlie is a princess but that doesn't mean she can control their thinking as she wants. She was so judging than understanding. they like to be what they want and Charlie sounds so stupid she sounded like she didn't know they were cannibals. - The demons only sang about their natural nature as cannibals, which is their everyday reality. - But Charlie wanted to dictate to them how to limit their speech according to her taste. - At the same time, she clearly did not understand that for them, being a cannibal is their identity, which they are proud of. - Her rebuke seemed arrogant and she didn't understand their situation she is selfish some said she gives chances like she maybe gives a second chances but still make others feel not important did others how Angel felt?! Or Vaggie or Lucifer!? She doesn't listen what others want or their needs they have some they just wanna be the way they are - The fact that Charlie gives a second chance does not include her further actions and behavior and does not excuse her for the way she behaves. - As I said, she still does not listen to the needs of others and makes them less important. - She judges their true nature without understanding their situation, like as I said I'm Cannibal Town when Charlie started a war because Adam wanted to attack and the cannibals sang about how they would eat and kill angels. They were just happy and happy to be the way they are, but Charlie judged them: Ehh that's a little violent can we tone it down? Ughh they are little murder right now. It sounded like she didn't even know they were cannibals like hello Charlie didn't she realize clearly that cannibals would be murderous like this? (sorry but that was judgmental and toxic and selfish of her) she just wanted to direct them to suit her taste even though she is the princess she cannot control their behaviors or minds. -Moreover, some said that Charlie is giving a second chance, but she didn't give a chance to Adam before Nifty stabbed him and why didn't she give Lucifer a chance from the beginning? She called him for help just because she needed something and she didn't even want to call him because she thought he didn't want to see her while he was struggling with his depression. And then she judged him and said nonsense that: Why is Alastor here for me when my own father is not?) Like this was toxic selfish judgmental from her and she didn't give him a chance from the beginning. Charlie's words about Alastor in contrast to her father Lucifer were unempathetic and over the top. Even if she didn't know his true motives, she had no right to judge and compare him like that. - Lucifer wanted to protect her from danger, even if Charlie didn't know it. - He was struggling with his own problems and depression and it might have been too psychologically taxing to help her. - Alastor is a manipulator, his help was with a selfish intention, which she didn't notice, but she still knows Alastor's personality a little - She didn't take into account her father's emotional state and problems, she only focused on her own goals. (only then did she gave a chance to him, but she still judged him and didn't give him a chance at the beggining). Her words were inappropriate and showed her lack of empathy towards her own family. It was really over the line and out of line. Not to mention Charlie admitted by herself that she cannot call him mainly cause Lucifer let the extermination happen. She is so judging and selfish she almost never apologized only some times but that's all. And she is really hypocrite Alastor at the episodes 8 when was war between demons and angels exorcists and he protected hotel and main cast Adam hurted Al and Al disappeared but others didn't know it and thought he died Charlie didn't cry or anything she was like in the mind: Wow sad But when Sir Pentious protected them and died for them Charlie cried as a baby!! And even made portrait of him! But what about Alastor?!! Even if Alastor didn't protect them genuinely Charlie doesn't know it lol. Some people say she is really so empathic HA! She even didn't cry about Alastor Charlie and empathic?? It's rather superficial empathic! Charlie is hypocrite toxic judging and selfish.
@@jazzandghost I agree and it's so worse! How insane protectors of Charlie cannot see that?? She doesn't wanna help others cause of joy or something like that She wanna help others cause she needs to or has to in order she would feel better about herself that's why started the hotel but the show shows like Charlie started the hotel cause cannot handle to see demons being killed ahem but it doesn't matter cause in the show it's even said that Charlie tries to work through her daddy issues by fixing people. So nope she wanna only feel better about herself it's not cause of altruist intentions Charlie is judging selfish hypocrite character. Charlie also never ever listened to Vaggie only twice but that's all she is bad girlfriend to Vaggie and bad supporter Vaggie has only Charlie and had a past she wasn't proud of and was worried about losing her but instead of understanding Vaggie Charlie talked about herself to Alastor like it's her being betrayed by her girlfriend! She even didn't give at least Vaggie space to let her explain it! Yes if she would be only hurted alright but how acted was totally out of her character She even treated Vaggie as some kind of monster like she would be worse than all sinners Charlie was so cold at Vaggie When said coldly about angelic weapons: If you would know that would you tell me? She acted like Vaggie would be her enemy and a monster Yes they made it then but only cause of Rosie help and it doesn't change a fact how acted with Vaggie She never ever protected Vaggie when others disrespected Vaggie only once she tried to protect at the end but that's all she forces Vaggie in doing something she doesn't wanna do and if Vaggie does it it's only cause of Charlie but we can clearly see Vaggie sounded felt like she would be forced It most of the time seems like Charlie takes an advantage of Vaggie to do something what Charlie wanna Vaggie deserves better in my opinion Charlie is worst person character the facts I said I'll not repeat it it's already in answers In why Chaggie is toxic She made feel Angel dust like he wouldn't matter when was proud of Sir Pentious but seriously!? Angel dust stayed for free room yes but he wanna redeem himself he just hides it or something like that but Sir Pentious didn't wanna redemption at the first place before he wanted to betray them only! Not to mention she made Angel dust play characters game and was shown he feels uncomfortable by it but Charlie just thinks she knows the best. And worse is that when Angel went after characters game up the stairs saddly Charlie saw she SAW ANGEL HOW WAS SAD!! And Charlie just in her mind: wow sad but as long as Sir Pentious wanna redeem himself I don't care. She didn't understand and respect Angels discomfort when Charlie came to his job cause of idiotic hotel! She was arrogant and even if ok she stayed but she wasn't quiet and was stupid enough to talk loudly to Travis about Hazbin Yes she said sorry but only cause how Angel dust screamed to Charlie it's with kids too when you scream at them and they cry and say sorry but don't know why but say sorry cause are screamed on And I know I'll repeat it again I'm sorry XD but she is toxic character she has trouble emotionally understanding the motivations and problems of other characters. - Self-reflection is missing, she only perceives her own one-sided view. - Empathy is rather superficial, she does not understand deeper human emotions. - Social interactions are difficult for her, she can't take a regard . - The world is divided into black and white, there is no complexity. even though she appears in the show as if she feels empathy like the pain of others but it's more superficial and it looks like she's focused on herself on her goal to change the demons end the extermination etc. Or about how others feel, for example sometimes Angel dust or sometimes mostly Vaggie and the other characters. Charlie is present with a selfish desire to pursue her dream at any cost without truly understanding the needs of others. Charlie is also selfish It was selfish of her how in the song Ready for this cannibals they sang about killing and how they will eat angels and Charlie just with a judgmental expression: ehh Well that's a little violent can we tone it down? Like what? Yes Charlie is a princess but that doesn't mean she can control their thinking as she wants. She was so judging than understanding. they like to be what they want and Charlie sounds so stupid she sounded like she didn't know they were cannibals. - The demons only sang about their natural nature as cannibals, which is their everyday reality. - But Charlie wanted to dictate to them how to limit their speech according to her taste. - At the same time, she clearly did not understand that for them, being a cannibal is their identity, which they are proud of. - Her rebuke seemed arrogant and she didn't understand their situation she is selfish some said she gives chances like she maybe gives a second chances but still make others feel not important did others how Angel felt?! Or Vaggie or Lucifer!? She doesn't listen what others want or their needs they have some they just wanna be the way they are - The fact that Charlie gives a second chance does not include her further actions and behavior and does not excuse her for the way she behaves. - As I said, she still does not listen to the needs of others and makes them less important. - She judges their true nature without understanding their situation, like as I said I'm Cannibal Town when Charlie started a war because Adam wanted to attack and the cannibals sang about how they would eat and kill angels. They were just happy and happy to be the way they are, but Charlie judged them: Ehh that's a little violent can we tone it down? Ughh they are little murder right now. It sounded like she didn't even know they were cannibals like hello Charlie didn't she realize clearly that cannibals would be murderous like this? (sorry but that was judgmental and toxic and selfish of her) she just wanted to direct them to suit her taste even though she is the princess she cannot control their behaviors or minds. -Moreover, some said that Charlie is giving a second chance, but she didn't give a chance to Adam before Nifty stabbed him and why didn't she give Lucifer a chance from the beginning? She called him for help just because she needed something and she didn't even want to call him because she thought he didn't want to see her while he was struggling with his depression. And then she judged him and said nonsense that: Why is Alastor here for me when my own father is not?) Like this was toxic selfish judgmental from her and she didn't give him a chance from the beginning. Charlie's words about Alastor in contrast to her father Lucifer were unempathetic and over the top. Even if she didn't know his true motives, she had no right to judge and compare him like that. - Lucifer wanted to protect her from danger, even if Charlie didn't know it. - He was struggling with his own problems and depression and it might have been too psychologically taxing to help her. - Alastor is a manipulator, his help was with a selfish intention, which she didn't notice, but she still knows Alastor's personality a little - She didn't take into account her father's emotional state and problems, she only focused on her own goals. (only then did she gave a chance to him, but she still judged him and didn't give him a chance at the beggining). Her words were inappropriate and showed her lack of empathy towards her own family. It was really over the line and out of line. Not to mention Charlie admitted by herself that she cannot call him mainly cause Lucifer let the extermination happen. She is so judging and selfish she almost never apologized only some times but that's all. And she is really hypocrite Alastor at the episodes 8 when was war between demons and angels exorcists and he protected hotel and main cast Adam hurted Al and Al disappeared but others didn't know it and thought he died Charlie didn't cry or anything she was like in the mind: Wow sad But when Sir Pentious protected them and died for them Charlie cried as a baby!! And even made portrait of him! But what about Alastor?!! Even if Alastor didn't protect them genuinely Charlie doesn't know it lol. Some people say she is really so empathic HA! She even didn't cry about Alastor Charlie and empathic?? It's rather superficial empathic! Charlie is hypocrite toxic judging and selfish.
@@rachelgardnerorray Loved reading your rants 😄! Anyway, Facts, I mean main characters can make mistakes.... But they have to be called out AND endure the consequences of their actions (I say 'AND' because Calling them out isn't really a consequence.).... That's what makes a good character.... Good. Naruto wasn't perfect, his actions affected other people... And in the beginning he wasn't the most likable child, but you understood why he acted as such, but he still got consequences. I've heard some critics blame the amount of writers for the story of this show being so bad.... But that sounds like a cop-out excuse to me, a large amount of writers can still produce a good story! They communicate and work together as a team for efficiency, not saying the writers of Hazbin Hotel didn't do that... But- there's a slight possibility given the final product.
I remember pilot Charlie. She had so many layers It often felt she was fighting against herself to be a good person. Is a shame Vivzie fired the only good writes of the team, after stealling his ideal and not giving him any credit And it annoys me... so much how the hotel has no reason to actually exist. They could have paced this show well, but Nooooooo
Every SINGLE character got bodied or uwu'd. Alastor was turned into a Twitter yassqueen, Angel turned into a stereotype of his pilot self, Vaggie was made into an exorcist because of a dumb fan headcannon, and Lucifer should have been made more sinister.
@roxycauldwell544 Some said that Vivzie mind cannot change and said that Vaggie was an exorcist since the pilot that my facts make no sense when I said that the comic of Al doesn't have to be cannon anymore like wtf what?? Everyone's mind can change 😂😂😂
They completely changed Vaggie from being killed in earth being a prostitute to an exorcist. Everyone especially Charlie would hate this version of themselves. Also, why the hell isnt the show like the pilots fun and fluid animation?
Viziepop is a designer, she is an artist, a song-maker, a conceptualizer, but above all else, she is not a writer. She just isn't, and she weighs down the show by forcing herself to be it's writer.
@@Saltboi1823 She really could just let the writing be done by pros... Or have them give her tips or guides or... something!!! From hearing the summary, The series feels like they had too many ideas and couldn't save some ideas for later and just used all of them in one season, which is NEVER a good idea (Well, if you know what you're doing, it's a good idea... But it felt like V didn't know how to balance it all.)
@@OneClassicalLass couldn't have said it better myself. I feel like Vizie was afraid she would lose control of the story if she relinquished status as a writer; which is an understandable fear, but she must overcome it or she'll ruin her golden goose for good.
@@OneClassicalLass , This! Yes, but she wishes were a legit writer, and she has a very fragile ego. She frankly just sucks. Stick to the character designing ONLY, Vivzie. But I know you ain’t gonna listen. And by you I mean Viv.
@@Saltboi1823 , She already is ruined, Hazbin isn’t even hype anymore, people just upload Hazbin content for views. Her other show has been shrinking with the views for quite some time.
Ive said this before to people but hazbin hotel is anti everything and is pro nothing. Its the idea of wanting to be the hero fighting the ultmite bad guys who have all the power. The problum is the wrighters dont have any values beside rebeling for rebeling sake. so the wrighters have to make the bad guys as evil as humanly possabel. That way our heros have a ression to rebel. Its why charlie is cool with canabels but isnt with having them be killed. Its so they can have there rebelion or underdog heros have a ression to fight the ones in power. Heres an exampel adem is a straw man in the show right. But what is he a strawman of? Rich people? The church? Christan values? The awser is none hes just evil so our heros are good when they fight and kill him.
Yeah, I think you're right about the writers. Your values will always show through in your writing, even if it's not on purpose. And I think that's what happened here
Side note I might be wrong about the wrighters having no values cuz its also possable they all have diffrent values and they all got mashed togther turning into a unfocus mush.
It's pro reformation and anti genocide...how is what you are claiming true? They do have values but not every ally of Charlie is a good person which is the point. I mean...no even the main characters are evil at times too. Eh no Charlie has issues with cannibals and finds them disgusting. He isn't a straw man, how is he? If it's none then he isn't a straw man, except killing him doesn't solve everything especially when there are evil people in Hell clearly.
@@Jdudec367 what I mean by the wrighters have no values is that there choices are based not on what things are more importan then other things but rather based on what they feel at that moment. If adam came to the hotel to be reformed would charlie take him in? I belive no. Why? Cuz he made her feel bad. Charlie/the show/the wrighhter only belive what they feel in that moment. So when moraly gray question happen they dont have an awser besides "idk". This is why I belive charlie was not acting out of chartar when she got mad at vagie for lying to her and didnt act this way when sir penchius lyed about wanting to be redemed. She felt hurt by vagie but she didnt give a shit that sir Penchius was puting up camras cuz it didnt make her feel bad.
What confuses me about making the figure of Adam a villain is if we go by biblical canon Adam was in Hell until Christ pulled him out. Adam was just a man who gave up paradise to be with Eve, if anyone represents getting sent to Hell for no "good" reason it would be Adam. Usually Micheal is the go-to heavenly warmonger.
@@guerreiroazul3230 I blame Lilith, she's basically the Medusa of Christian Lore. A minor creature that got turned into a major demon and got a feminist rebrand.
How does Lucifer give her free will by giving Eve the fruit? If he gives her free will through the fruit, then that means she doesn't have the free will to eat the fruit to begin with, so how does she even eat it? Was she force-fed? Doesn't sound like he's giving her much free will in making that decision.
@@AquaMidget If heaven can just make replacement women when they get rebellious why didn't they make a new one. It sounds like Eve ate the apple alone, she didn't offer it to Adam.
I was wondering that too. In the Bible and old testament as a whole, humans had free will but was free of sin. Humans were the caretakers of the earth to use it to live and care for it. The only rule was to not eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good & evil. The devil as a serpent makes Eve believe that if she eats it, she and Adam will be like God, and that God fears them eating from it. Eve, not knowing the consequences besides that they will die, and not understanding what death is, eats of the fruit. Adam in turn follows his wife, and realizes they’re naked, and now sin, death, and all aspects which humans once did not face are brought upon them. Humans are born with free will. Adam and Eve chose to eat the fruit, as they were told not to and told the consequences (even if they didn’t exactly know what that meant). If in the Hazbin universe there’s no free will, then there’s no consequences. Honestly the only way to salvage the opening narrative is for Vivzie to make Lucifer a liar about what happened.
It’s one of the interpretations of what Adam and Eve got from the fruit of knowledge. The most traditional interpretation is it granted the ability to tell the difference between good and evil, making humans moral arbiters on the same level as god. A slightly different interpretation is that it gave them free will, and yeah there’s a problem with God punishing people who had the intellectual range of children for taking something yummy that was offered to them and eating it.
You know, I feel like they should've kept Lucifer as an openly judgemental, and distant character. (At least how I interpret the way he shows up in "I'm Always Chasing Rainbows.) It'd give credence to Charlie's daddy issues, explain why she's This desperate for validation/attention from other people, and would give her a mirror to look into about the way she behaves towards other people. Does she really want to end up like her father? What would getting his attention (in a positive manner) actually do for her? Not to mention, if Alastor legitimately acted like a trustworthy and present mentor/father figure the whole time, there would be real tension between the two (Lucifer and Alastor) should a Dead Beat Dad like situation arise. Alastor would also justifiably despise Lucifer for a whole slew of reasons. For being an absent, neglectful, verbally abusive father (Likely akin to the one Alastor had growing up.), for being far too strong to fight/injure/kill, and for attempting to reestablish himself as somebody Charlie can rely on when she needs help. (Which is part of Alastor's long term manipulation, and is also, ever so slightly genuine.) So, a decent-ish dad-figure who's manipulating Charlie to further his own goals, vs an awful dad who's only here bc Charlie is succeeding at something for once. (You know, instead of the hotel being another one of Charlie's Many failed projects.) I feel like Lucifer's too nice, and quick to give up in opposing Charlie's dreams in canon. There's zero stakes there.
I swear, you’re the first person who’s made these critical videos that acknowledged that Lucifer straight up damned all of humanity and still plays the victim over it. And NOBODY acknowledges it, whether in the show or in the fandom. Also Charlie’s inconsistent morality, another missed thing I swear people don’t discuss enough. People point out her hypocrisy with Vaggie, but what about Valentino and Adam. How about that old woman she called a bitch. Or when she cut her dad out of her life because he… doesn’t call her sometimes? You’d think this show would be about challenging Charlie’s belief that everyone can be reformed by having them confront her own puritanical thoughts but instead she’s… always right? And to be clear, I’m not saying Charlie can’t hate Valentino and Adam, it’s completely justified to find them irredeemable people, but it would have been a great moment for Charlie if SHE was forced to confront that feeling of hypocrisy, that maybe the angels are right some people don’t deserve to be redeemed, but rules shouldn’t be so rigid.
Omg I totally agree!! And no you're not alone I thought about it too how Charlie acts selfishly judgmental and acts like hypocrite with others even if she seems nice she isn't. Poor others I feel bad mainly for Luci and Vaggie they deserve better love and daughter. And it's worse and she has for sure narcissistic disorder why? I can tell you everything if you wanna but I agree with everything you said!
@@Pomeranian690it’s like, actually fascinating how Viv is really bad at writing kind characters. Charlie is “nice” but she has done nothing to help Angel dust and can’t handle criticism without crying about it (huh. Sounds familiar). Emily is “nice” but is more willing to sympathize with rapists and murderers and not the people heaven is trying to protect. Millie is “nice” but doesn’t react when Moxxie is knocked around or bullied. Stolas is “nice” but the man is an actual sexual predator. Fizzarolli is “nice” but flexes his wealth and straight up murdered some demons with his car in the same episode where he lectures Blitzo about how he has no reason to judge the wealthy. Verosika is “nice” but she’s also a sexual predator! What is with this writing.
@Birdyboys I totally agree omg! Even me I can write better characters. And and even Rachel Gardner from angels of death anime which has trauma and problems she is more kind than Charlie. BTW Millie is quite bad too but she is little better than Charlie cause Charlie almost never protected or listened Vaggie or appreciates her. Unlike her Millie many times listened appreciated Mooxie and protected him. Even if some times yes Millie didn't protect Mooxie too but still quite better than Charlie. But I agree with you with this 💫 If you are more wondering about my facts about Charlie why is judging selfish hypocrite I can tell you 🍀 Emily is selfish judging hypocrite too after all Emily and Charlie have the same personality
He suffers from the same problem Maleficent had In the Live Action Disney remake has. We love the Devil and Maleficent because they are evil. Not because they're "Misunderstood".
@@Birdyboys Oh my goodness, I agree with you, what IS this writing????? That's too many similarities! Hmm.... Is Vivzie trying to tell us something?.... 🤔 It's not hard to write a nice person... I'll do it right now! Groger is a very big burly man, very strong man- But people are scared of him because he is big (muscular) so he's nice so people won't fear him- he bakes for the little children around his neighborhood, he helps his fellow neighbors with errands, he's an all around nice guy.... That wasn't hard at all!!! And he still has room for seasoning!! But seriously though, that's crazy....
“She questioned the story of Adam, Eve and Lucifer” gonna take a wild assumption and assume Viv didn’t mean the Bible and actually meant Paradise Lost where Lucifer is humanized more (but is still portrayed as pathetic and selfish). I think she sympathized with Lucifer, hated Adam and viewed Eve as either a self insert or plot device. Because anyone who has read the Bible, including the person who has made this video can immediately say that Lucifer hasn’t done a single good thing and only acts in his own self interests.
@@randomguy56789considering how God still hasn't killed us all after all the bullshit we had made, we can safely say that the old man ain't really selfish
I don't think a character for being immortal should be mature. Look at the greek pantheon. They were a bunch of idiots that did whatever they wanted because "hell yeah we're gods". The problem of Hazbin and the whole "Hellaverse" is how everyone every character is written as an edgy teenager OC. Foul-mouthed depraved and criminal for the sake of it. There's no contrast. No one is good but all are the same kind of bad. The most different was Alastor not mentioning sexual things or swearing, then they made him swear. Great.
@maravreloaded Swearing is okay almost everyone swear. I mean you know it's bad but in the show it's fine it's adult show after all. But I'm happy they didn't make him as Valentino I mean Val is into sexual things and sexual abuse others. For this I'm happy that Alastor is not sexual predator
Totally fair point. Their immaturity stood out because every single character is a, like you said, edgy teenage OC, and there was nothing to differentiate them from each other. Old, yet still immature characters can be really interesting, because they have so much more experience.
no the problem is you cant use the greeks as a frame of reference due to how the two religions view their figures of myth. The Greeks saw the gods as both representations of man and as wild forces of nature its why every god is wild and impulsive making decisions just because or without any real motivation at all because thats how we see nature sometimes. In the bible and its other texts the two groups are paragons of the alignments the angels are an ultimate force of good and are specifically gods servants and any angel that doesn't meet that is removed via "Falling" meanwhile devils/demons are the ultimate force of evil they are hedonistic tricksters and murderers which means that if someone is an angel they need to match that mood or they shouldnt be an angel and thats actually why your second point stands out as a complaint if this was based in greek myth it would make sense for gods to be petty but in biblical myth Angels arent supposed to be evil they can be detached from humanity but overall but there shouldnt be a point where an angel in a functioning heaven would provoke the question how did they get there. She didnt write angels to be angels she wrote them as villains Charlie might have actually worked better as an angel since that would allow her to have her innate sense of goodness that seems alien for hell and could have brought up interesting elements but Viv wanted to write about a demon girl in a plot that doesnt really work for a demon girl and thats ignoring all the nonsense regarding lucifer
Little late but I need to say my piece. The demon child Vaggie spared wasn't a child. It was a plot device to poorly justify why she fell from Heaven. Even though Adam explicitly stated she had killed 'thousands' of sinners before. So either Vaggie just never killed the children of Hell and nobody noticed, but that raises the question of Adam's assessment of her; she was his number one killing machine or she had a sudden spontaneous change of heart. This series is just flashy eye candy, like Avatar, just throw a bunch of tumblr OC's in front of an edgy backdrop, watch them fight and later realise nothing of significance happened. This show is the epitome of a dancing bear. You're not supposed to care if the bear dances well only that it dances at all.
(WARNING: This is gonna be a pretty long comment.) Here’s a character I don’t think anyone’s brought up that does what Charlie tried to do about a zillion times better: Leslie Knope from Parks and Recreation. She and Charlie are actually very similar. They’re both super-positive, happy-go-lucky girls, who have a dream/goal they want to accomplish with a ragtag group of misfits behind them. What makes Leslie the better character? Well, a few things actually: -She’s not only great at her job as a public service bureaucrat, she LOVES it. It’s her passion. Ever since she was a little kid, she’s wanted to make Pawnee a better place, and she manages to do that in every endeavor she takes. Sure, she makes a few mistakes or runs into a few road bumps along the way, but she always manages to persevere on her own merits and her passion for the work she does. -While Charlie “attempts” to be everyone’s best friend, Leslie is THE BEST friend. Leslie has so much love to give to the people she cares about, and it only takes one episode to notice that. One of her defining traits is that she’s a master at gift-giving because she knows her friends so well. She sticks up for her friends, inspires them to be better people, and is always planning grand gestures of affection whenever she can. If you’re Leslie Knope’s friend, she will be your biggest and loudest cheerleader. -Unlike Charlie, Leslie has close and defined relationships with all of the main cast, and what makes that even more apparent is that, while Leslie’s friends love and respect her, they’re not afraid to disagree with her or call her out when she’s wrong about something. While Vaggie exists purely to be Charlie’s yes-woman, Ann is usually the one who keeps Leslie grounded and brings her back to reality. They may be best friends, but that doesn’t mean they have to be on the same page about everything. -Leslie has flaws, but the show acknowledges them as such and frames Leslie as being in the wrong for acting on them. One of the greatest examples of this is the episode Farmer’s Market. The Pawnee Famrer’s Market gets a new vendor who uses skimpily dressed people to sell his chard, while kids and families are around. Obviously, Leslie wants to do something about this, but because she’s the dangerous combination of being passionate, stubborn, and driven all at the same time, she does NOT handle the situation well at all. She immediately jumps to wanting to kick him out instead of coming up with some kind of compromise, she comes up with a bunch of rules that are clearly targeting the chard vendor in particular, even though he’s not really breaking any real health or code violations, and she even goes as far as to revoke his license without consulting Ben first. While Leslie was right to be concerned that kids and families would see stuff they shouldn’t be seeing, she’s only thinking about herself and what SHE thinks is best. She’s not taking anyone else into consideration, not Ben, not Nolan, the chard vendor in question, not even the other farmers, who say that Nolan is helping their businesses flourish, and as Ben so eloquently put it: When you’re arguing with Leslie Knope, you might as well be arguing with the sun. But unlike the sun, Leslie actually can be reasoned with, and after realizing how her actions and stubbornness have caused the people around her to feel, she realizes her mistake, apologizes to the parties she hurt, and eventually, they do come up with that compromise I mentioned earlier. Meanwhile, from what’s been shown in this video, Charlie never has a moment or episode like this. She’s always right and the people who disagree with her are always wrong. -Speaking of which, that’s another thing that makes Leslie the better protagonist, how the people who strongly disagree with her are portrayed. Adam is just a one-dimensional jerk who’s only there to give Charlie a villain to fight against and to make her look good by comparison. Ron Swanson, on the other hand, is Leslie’s polar opposite in many ways, but the show doesn’t make him the evil bad guy who’s always there to tear her down, he’s a trusted friend, and source of guidance for Leslie whenever she needs it. Their different personal and political beliefs challenge and strengthen their bond. They learn from each other and make each other better. And if we want to talk about specifically antagonists, just look at Bobby Newport. Bobby essentially fills the same role as Adam, in that he is the person going up against the main character and her big ideas, but what makes him work is the fact that he’s not an irredeemable jerk. Quite the opposite. Bobby Newport was a kid whose dad bought him a political position to make him look good. It’s made pretty clear from the jump that Bobby has no idea what he’s doing or what he’s in for. Which is showcased perfectly with how interacts with Leslie. As Leslie and Bobby spend more time together as opposing candidates for city council, they get to know each other more. Bobby realizes that Leslie is MUCH more suited for the city council than he is, and the two of them even start to form a small friendship. Not to mention, Bobby was created to showcase/satirize the weird world of politics and how people don’t always get to where they are through talent and passion. I would add more, but I think I’ve covered all of the main things. Leslie Knope is better than Charlie, because she has tons of good qualities to go along with her bad ones, her supporting cast aren’t just yes-man, she’s treated as being in the wrong when she needs to be, and the people who she comes into conflict with aren’t just flat strawmen. Parks and Rec is a really great show, with great overall themes and messages.
I totally agree!! Nto mention also Charlie should give redeeming plan and princess title to someone else for example even Rachel gardner from angels of death anime she is so more better than Charlie too she has trauma and little issues yes but is kind forgives and is understanding she would know they aren't innocent unlike Charlie which has weird view. She shouldn't exist since also she has narcisstic disorder and I can say why if you're wondering of course good analysis btw Xd
I honestly believe that Charlie is the way she is because vivzy thinks this is how good people are. She doesn't understand that genuinely good people are not just virtue signaling and trying to keep their own image up
“There’s a lot of feminist and not-straight people in hell, what are you trying to say with that?” Got em 😂 This was a really well put together video essay! I can’t wait to see what else you make in the future! ❤🙏
to be fair, we don´t see that much of heaven and have no idea about their sexualities, plus anyone can be a bad person so it´s not surprising that there would be minorities in hell at all. but of course that´s assuming they´re bad people at all, since evidently no one has any idea who can get into heaven and hell is also full of people who eg, value consent (including the literal embodiment of lust for some reason), protect their loved ones (Carmilla and her daughters and maybe even Zestiel??), are genuinely good leaders and give good relationship advice (Rosie) and so on. Heck, we even see a literal CHILD in hell who looks like they´re 10 at most... and Vaggie ofc gets expelled for not killing said child
Hazbin (and Helluva) is what happens when you fall in love with your characters, you turn it into Dora the explorer, which few adults enjoy. We all see Swiper, know the answers and realise the ending, boring, in other words. You don't have to involve, suffering or gore to speak to an adult audience but you DO need some intelligence behind it and be ready to twist a good person into evil or kill a child/puppy/or whatever is needed to carry the story. This is not easy but absolutely necessary or you'll get a bland story, like Hazbin.
So...what? How do you know the ending will be boring? And you're saying we need to see a godo person become evil or see a child pr puppy be killed for it to be adult? What happened to not needing to involve suffering or gore to speak to an adult audience? So is it necessary or not? Make up your mind. And how can you call the story bland when it's nowhere near finished really?
@@Jdudec367 I see you've missed my point. I shall be more clear. When you "fall in love" or "bond" with the characters you're creating, it makes it a lot harder to write an interesting story because you can't bear the thought of them dying or doing something bad with intent. This makes the characters very flat and your story one-dimensional, like stories for children, they are easy to predict and not engaging. "We all see Swiper, know the answers, and realise the ending, in other words, boring." I swept the last phrases to make it clearer. As you can see, I don't have an opinion on the ending in itself; the statement refers to the story as a whole. "[...] you DO need some intelligence behind it and be ready to twist a good person into evil or kill a child/puppy/or whatever is needed to carry the story." You need to do what's necessary to carry the story, killing in itself is irrelevant if the character isn't dear to the reader, death and horror do not equal a good story for adults, it's nothing but faint ambience if you feel nothing for those involved and that's exactly the point. For example: Stolas (Helluva) started as a powerful badass and entitled jerk with a deep love for his daughter. A very good and interesting start. Further on something changed, he can no longer have flaws so the reason for his cheating is mental abuse for 18 years in an arranged, loveless marriage. He got flipped 180 and is now a powerless victim with no self-esteem and nowhere to turn but Blitz, whom he somehow always loved yet treats other imps as furniture. Nothing in the story changed Stolas or revealed his true self, the *writer* changed and _that_ is bad writing. This is just a snippet of ONE example, I'm happy to talk about it more but since it's already an essay I'm ending it here. I hope that answered your questions.
@@TheLodjur So kill your darlings? Got it, not sure how that's relevant, it's only been one season and characters have already died. 1. Ok I see then. No nothing changed he still has flaws, and I mean...tbf that abuse was implied since episode 2 really....nothing changed with that, even then him cheating is portrayed as still hurting his daughter therefore he still messed up really. Eh no he still has flaws like with how he treats people he cares about like Blitz and Octavia for example, and we only see him treat one imp badly one time...not all of them. Wrong, the writer didn't change they just elaborated on his and Stella's past that isn't bad writing just because it didn't go how you personally wanted it to go. I mean I got answers but still that isn't bad writing.
I just wanted to say thank you for this channel,as a wannabe storyteller and screenwriter,this helped me (while cringing at the thought of the show)figure out what to do and what not to do when it comes to writing characters and stories
1:24:11 For Thor, it’s intentionally made that way because his friends are enablers and are just as arrogant as he is. Thor is a spoiled person, never held accountable for his actions, and no one has given him no as an answer. Him being banished was the only time he was actually facing consequences for something he did. The only person who sees Thor in the wrong for acting this way is the antagonist of this story, Loki. He sees Thor as an unworthy heir of the throne and thinks that he can be a much better King than Thor ever will be. Which is the reason why he schemes and betrays Asgard. He did manage to succeed but only for short time; since Thor had gone through a whole character arc and defeated him.
The main problem is that people who are trying to say everyone should be their own arbiter of their own morality and there is no objective truth but Christianity is bad because it's judgemental - still believe in objective and universal truths, use the moral categories of good and bad, and ultimately "their own" ideas are actually Christian ideas that have been part of culture and civilization they've inherited for so long they don't even realise are Christian.
One of these people once told me that they don’t believe in objective morality, but they will say things are right or wrong to them. Therefore, if someone did something evil to their subjective opinion, they will call them out or fight them if necessary.
@@tfordham13 there certainly was philosophy and morality before Christians and parallel to Israelite culture. But it really didn't look much like our modern ideas.
From analyzing Hazbin and seeing all the different takes of critics + fans alike, I've come to discover that many joke about the show's writing flaws chalking up to being "MLP in hell" or [insert kids cartoon here]. But the easiest way to describe this show's writing flaws are the "MLP" joke. It is a children's show geared towards adults, but appears more as something like MLP. MLP, but without any themes, goals, direction, character arcs, and without establishing any of the world's rules/logic. A... pointless, colorful fun fest is what you get when you take that away from MLP. I don't exactly get *why* an "adult" tv show is presented so childishly, but can't help but demand to be taken seriously. The fans might be able to, but I certainly can't. Though it has been helpful in learning what not to do when it comes to writing professionally! Lmao!
@@SodaFrizz666 🤣🤣🤣 "MLP in Hell" is crazy Good point! It does feel like a kids show... Take out the drugs, s*x, and swearing... That's kind of what you're left with....
They're way too obvious and open with this being an adult show. Like people are so quick to say "THiS iS nOT FoR KiDs!!" But the show's humor is, what some critics would say, "edgy kids finding out what slurs are". Like old cartoons literally had adult jokes in them that were easy to miss and clever at times, if not shocking to notice.
@@T_E_G The "This is not for kids" excuse is a cop out. I've seen kids shows that portrayed a lot more maturity.... Shoot even SpongeBob has clever adult jokes that I didn't catch until I was older!!!
Hazbin and Helluva Boss both have Viv in control and her awful writing tarnished Hazbin Hotel, she said she valued good faith criticism but she wrote early episodes of Hazbin, Adam is how he is, the terrible logic and so on because of her and skip to Full Moon and it still is awful, she then says Stolas is in wrong too but we get Apology Tour and no Merch that Blitz has that truly shows they're equally in wrong & Blitz gets turned into a villainous individual that "proves" Stolas is better, you can say that Viv didnt write all of it but that doesnt change the fact she greenlit this stuff, she willingly chose to keep everything as is and there's more than just what I mentioned that shows Viv is the problem, the more she gets to stay, write and have control, the more this stuff is going to stay.
@@artistanthony1007 Maybe she needs writing classes or actual writing professionals to guide her way?? Seems like she's trying to wing it and can't refuse any ideas in my eyes... Just listening to the summary made me feel like the writers all had different ideas for the series and Vivzie couldn't dwindle these ideas down and kept all of them... That's the vibe I'm getting for sure!
As a Christian myself I was always taught that everyone has an opportunity to get right with god when they are still on earth but they decide to keep going into sin. It feels weird that Charlie is trying to redeem these sinners that have no redeeming qualities
@@IronBat-505 Yes, Hazbin Hotel never bothers to explain how redeeming a already judged sinner is unfair to the people who RIGHTFULLY turned from sin in life and earned their way into heaven fairly. Heaven and Hell aren't pitstops, they're final destinations, your decisions in life determine how you get to these places in death, but if you can just get plucked out of hell for making better decisions (?) and just go to heaven anyway, why even bother at that point? No one would have any reason to live a good honorable right with God (or the divine judgement as they call it in HH, I'm calling that God I don't care.) It would've been cool if one of the "bad guys" Adam or Sera even made that point... Alas, potential for an intriguing and mature story.... Wasted. This story is in dire need of a rewrite... Seriously.
Facts. I get that vivzipop doesn’t actually care about Christianity but it’s still dumb that they never acknowledge this point. Alastor pretty much said it himself in the pilot. The sinners in hell already had a chance when they were on earth and they didn’t take it. It’s not like God is like if you do something once you can never get another chance again. No. You have as much time as you do on earth to turn around your life and turn to God. Everyone that’s in hell decided not to do so. Charlie constantly goes on and on about giving sinners a second chance but they already had thousands when they were on earth. Like Alastor said, hell is the final resting point once you die. You can’t get mad at heaven or God and act like they’re the bad guys when you yourself didn’t take the abundance of chances you had when you were still on earth. It’s also worth noting that not everyone in hell deserves a second chance. Valentino for example. It’s such a crime that this show NEVER acknowledges either of these points. But, then again if they did then there would be no show lol.
I feel like it would make more since if we actually had reasons to sympathize with why the characters sinned or even if the show have characters with sins like sex before marriage, being gay, etc. You can't show me someone that clearly likes commiting acts of violence and expect me to believe they deserve to get into heaven. Not to mention, they never mention if they have limits as to who they'll accept into the hotel. Will they be willing to redeem a rapist? Murderer? Abusive parent/spouse? Did any of these people try to fix these behaviors or get on the right path while they were alive? If not, why? Did they have to act on sinful behaviors to survive? (Stealing, prostitution, etc) Did they just not believe in god? Why should I care that this person is in hell. From what I see, they earned their slot there just like a person who'd end up in heaven.
1:50 -2:00 That description of Charlie sounds very familiar for some reason. Almost like she's an author's surrogate without a single bit of self-awareness or irony.
@@OneClassicalLass i have no clue either but "authors surrogate" maybe means... carrying whatever the writer wishes??? Idk, all I know is Charlie got impregnated by Vivziepop apparently
@@SodaFrizz666 What MBThomas is trying to say is that Charlie is Vivienne Medrano's author avatar. Like a self insert except Vivienne Medrano's is horribly written.
Charlie giving sinners redemption... Essentially making Heavens victims from people that abused them r*pe them, murdur them. And their kids families.... A chance to live together.... Who would ever want that.. And that's f*cked up
That's why I say she is selfish judging hypocrite manipulating toxic with narcissistic disorder she thinks she is good and does it for people but doesn't XD its the same for Emily cause they are totally same at least when it comes to voice and personality and its more worse for Charlie I can say why 🙏 😂😂
This might be a really weird and uncommon take. But I dont think Vivziepop is necessarily unaware that her writing is bad. I think she really enjoys her own bad writing.
Vivzie pop's writing is literally no different from the corrupted hollywood writing She changes original voice actors for the more popular and more well known cast's,even if said cast wouldn't entirely have that smae vibe or tone that the original voice actors portrayed much better with,one of which was badly voiced acted was "Katie Killjoy" she barely has much screen time in the show but her voice was so out of focus from her personality and charcter it just sucks that people tolerate it just because they "like the show" What's eveb funny is viv said in her interview that she is willing to "kill her darling's" when that feels very shadily bias,this could really imply she heard the criticism of her own show but knstead of learning from it while making the show she simply shoced it for the second season to excuse her complete lack of skill in writing hee one characters ( and i doubt shes gonna kill her *favorite* darling, especially when Serpentious the least favorite of Her OC's was blasted like a walking joke and only revived to keep the fans of the show drooling and praising her undercooked of a show) The main character *Charlie* is basic at best and looks like the typical y/n at worst with all the,blonde hair,blue eyes,*rich* brat with a sad (not so sad) typical backstory and the only excuse they gave her for her failings was "she's quirky, she's naive" Bias,that doesn't excuse that shes a terrible MC since the first show...she sounds like those typical preaching with doing no real effort or development to the story (they just shoved all of the information in our throat's without giving us a time to breathe) (which was over used in the show *literally*) was everyone having daddy issues in the show Instead of issues regarding the present of their story and it's extremely causing the whole series on HH and HB to look mundane and dull and down right annoying and frustrating (sometimes it might as well pisse off some people who understands the bad writing and terrible characters of the show) And let's not forget people will excuse the main characters flaws because she's "empowering" or " she's making change's" and whatever nonsense it's really giving off pretty white privilege excuse and bias (something similar that is happening in Helluva boss where blitzo is being treated like a villain and Stoliz as some uwu gay boy when *both* parties are equally bad,it jsut strains and makes the fan hate the ship with how Toxic it is) even if the show has good potential,the amount of total denial and excuse from both fan's and down right people who barely acknowledge or cares to understand the show in general would annoy the hell out of everyone elses opinions and criticism (at this point the show is failing itself and the only one's praising this show are the Fan's or artists who has better writing for the damn story)
The recasting is weird because the show had a HUGE fanbase already and you're more likely to piss those people off by replacing the current actors rather than draw new people in with a star studded cast. And, while vivzie might know the phrase "kill your darlings," she certainly doesn't know how to apply it. I actually think that's why pentious wasn't as poorly written as everyone else. He wasn't her darling.
@@jazzandghost Vivienne Medrano recasts the pilot cast because she wanted to become more popular by hiring the more popular and well known cast. You may not know this, but Sir Pentious is based on her old ex-friend and victim, DollCreep. 9 years ago, Vivienne Medrano encouraged her fans to cyberbully DollCreep on DevianrtArt to the point DollCreep had to be hospitalized. She then made a tweet saying "Karma is so awesome, aw man.
@@peachybunny1875 Sheesh,that might explain why her show is messed up,it might just be a reflection of her own self (not to be disrespectful or start a hate base,just my thoughts on her show and writing since it really can happen,some and a lot of small and we'll known authors often ended up portraying their personalities in thier stories which is fine but can be risky if not done right)..which Viv may have shown unintentionally or not in her own show
i really wish that hazbin hotel was a good show 😭😭 the concept is kickass and the animation is gorgeous but.. the writing.... dear god the writing (ba bum tss!)
Honestly Hazbin hotel feels like an abridged watt pad AU version of the pilot. There probably was a draft somewhere on the writing floor that could've make for a good show but budget, an oppressive network, bad working conditions, and weird marketing decisions probably made directing the show a living nightmare, and in the end we got this unrecognizable mess. Like I'm sorry but you can't change a shows, art style, Voice actors, designs, and animation and not expect it to come of as jarring.
I find it funny that the most popular character in this show is adam ironically. Love him or hate him people talk about him alot. More then any other character i have seen. People were pissed that adam died out of nowhere and hope he comes back as a sinner. But vizie says hes not coming back which i feel like shes lying. Maybe adam wont be in season 2 but will appear again in season 3 or 4. If he doesnt appear at all then yea he was wasted character
@@NicholasSanchez-df7ls I feel like he should've been written differently, it felt like Vivzie just put stuff she hated into Adam's character and boom- Bad Guy.
To be honest... The first time I watched the Pilot episode(the old one), I thought it's going to be an apocalyptic setting, MC actually maturing, angels are actually scary and mysterious... But no, we got a boring(kinda cringe) MC, useless jokes everywhere, pointless, angels are just... there, i guess. Honestly, after I watched all of that... yeah, disappointed.
The thing that kills me the most about this show is how there are just *so many seeds* of good ideas and concepts just absolutely jam packed into this show, but none of them are handled by the writers with any degree of finesse to make them compelling, as well as not taking what they had and actually making something coherent with the limited time they knew they had. Watching the show was an exercise in frustration because I could _see_ how some parts of the show could've been actually intriguing if they'd been handled with more care and more time, but as it is it just all feels like a waste. Everything worth a damn in this show is either underdeveloped, underutilized, or both at once.
I can name a lot of the problems I have, as a fan of Hazbin Pilot (and I mean it, I have been a fan for as long as I remember) and a Roman Catholic Watching Hazbin Hotel Pilot has some interesting worldbuildings and plots, that can be changed or could be maintained for another upcoming episode. The beginning shows us Charlie’s perspective as a witness of an endless purge caused by the extermination, and we get to see that she was saddened by it and she needed to do something to solve the issue (In Pilot, the issue is that the extermination happened to quell the overpopulation issue in hell, which I would count as some necessary evil in their part), then we have established characters; Angel Dust, Alastor, Husk, Nifty, Vaggie, Cherri, Sir Pentious, you can name a few, although only a little characters were the first spotlight in the Pilot. I can see Charlie succeeding in redeeming and helping Angel Dust to overcome his own mistakes in life, as it is one of the solution countering the overpopulation, and I really do care if she will succeed or not. I wanted her to acknowledge some errors and mistakes she did and should not be afraid to learn from it, and also, learn from Vaggie’s advice and others. I know Vaggie is sidelined because Alastor does somethimg to help the hotel, but she deserves the spotlight, too. But then, the show happened, it made a complete turn on the whole plot, and disregards the theme of Redemption and made it into Heaven vs Hell. This theme upsets me because it is redundant. Charlie wasn’t mature in this show anymore, but was more of childish Mary Sue whose sinners and all other characters should be in her favor, no disagreements, no wrongs, and anyone who is opposite to her is considered the enemy. This is not the correct way to write a main character of the story, there should be arcs, meet the challenges and obstacles and overcome them to achieve their goals, not this type. I started disliking Charlie for what she did to Angel Dust, and it’s sad that she is nit helping Angel Dust overcome his own past mistakes; the worst thing is Vaggie blames it and pins it on Husk to apologize to Angel Dust, instead of Charlie becoming the mediator of these two. I want to like Hazbin Hotel, but the writing and worldbuilding problems and how the whole Critiquing of the Christianity felt butchered from the way the Heaven and Hell is presented. I am fine with the moral ambiguity of Heaven and Hell, but not the Heaven is evil trope (the reason is what’s the point if both of them are evil, where can I go then?) ‘Those sinners are innocent!’ - Excuse me, does that mean you are condoning evil people to go to Heaven and make the victims suffer all the time? Bad choice of words, Emily! The victims will hate you for that. It sucks that I have rooted for her to succeed from the Pilot, but she became wasted for much more of deflecting much advices and criticisms.
Well... Charlie was already horribly agnorant from the pilot. Why? I'll tell you (btw it will be long so be careful) The two (Charlie and Vaggie) have obviously known each other for a long time, with Vaggie even saying she’ll help her out when she makes her speech. Charlie is instead, annoyed rather, not really wanting to stick to their supposed plan and spice things up a bit with a song. It is understandable that Charlie would want to do something like this, of course it fits her personality and her character flaws, but this particular scene is our introduction to how Charlie doesn’t necessarily LISTEN to Vaggie. While we see that the two clearly care for one another, Charlie is clearly more interested in doing things her way, even after she said she wouldn’t sing when Vaggie begged her not to and to just go over their script. Now the immediate thing I want to say is no, I’m not saying Charlie should listen to Vaggie 24/7. Charlie is obviously her OWN person and can do whatever she wants, but we all know how air-headed and blind she is, she’s not necessarily SMART like Vaggie is. If she was, she would have did what her and Vaggie went over instead of going off script, wether wanting to spice things up or not. Speaking of that, we all knew this was coming, Charlie ends up singing indeed, with Vaggie facepalming all the way through. You can tell that stuff like this has happened before, it’s why Vaggie is somewhat controlling because Charlie doesn’t always make the best decisions. There’s nothing I can say that anyone else hasn’t already said here. Charlie should have just listened to Vaggie, and by not doing so, she made herself look like a fool on front of all of Hell, so moving on. Before we get to the limo scene, I want to say what happened after the crowd laughed at Charlie. I disliked how Charlie didn’t even MENTION how Vaggie was helping her. She’s quick to brag about Angel, a famous porn star who doesn’t even believe in her cause nor give a shit about her, but not the person she’s known for so long, has her back 24/7, helps her out, and genuinely cares about her??? And if she didn’t want to mention Vaggie directly, fine, but at least say “I have someone amazing helping me” or “there’s already a person who believes in me” SOMETHING like that to at least show that she freaking APPRECIATES her. I don’t care if it had to do with Angel as a patron or had to do with clients at the hotel, all I wish she would have done was acknowledge Vaggie’s existence. But no, much like Viv herself, she doesn’t acknowledge Vaggie. With that said, let’s get to the limo scene. Of course, this scene is just infuriating to watch for me because not ONCE does Charlie stick up for Vaggie, or even HERSELF for that matter. After they pick up Angel, Vaggie gets on his case about what he did, and Angel clearly doesn’t care, laughing and joking about all of this, and jabbing at them both and the project. Since Charlie is uwu sad from the fiasco at the news station, she sulks like a child the entire time while this ugly candy cane constantly insults and ridicules her girlfriend. Now before people come at me, yes, I KNOW Vaggie is a full grown adult and isn’t some damsel in distress, she’s perfectly capable of standing up for herself. However, it just bothers me that Charlie doesn’t do or say shit, Angel even flat out calls her a bitch and Charlie just sits there, hell, there’s literally a shot of Charlie SMILING for some reason while Vaggie is pissed. These two are supposed to be GIRLFRIENDS, yet not only does Charlie just sit there and take the bullshit Angel gives her, but she doesn’t even correct or discipline Angel for his shitty actions towards her partner. Once again, it’s so funny that Viv tries to showcase how Charlie “knows she’s in hell” and can take care of herself, yet here she just lets Angel ridicule her and Vaggie, someone who THEIR housing with THIER money. Charlie only gets one line to react to this whole thing, which is “That was really uncool you know Angel”- and that’s it. No “you’re not going to talk to us that way”, no “you’re going to timeout”, no “don’t speak to vaggie that way” none of that. I mention the whole “time out” thing because Viv has stated that that’s how she would discipline misbehaved demons, yet here she doesn’t do anything for Angel. She’s just proving to him that he can do whatever the hell he wants with no consequences, and that he can continue to fuck with Vaggie without her saying anything. Some girlfriend she is. So, I want to mention one more thing before we get to the clusterfuck that is Alastor, but I think some people might see this and say “Well maybe Charlie was too vulnerable in this scene to do anything”- and to that I say, yeah, she was in the beginning, but literally after Angel asks for the liquor, she’s sitting up and listening instead of curling up in a ball and pouting like she was in the beginning of the scene. Even her lame line she said about Angel shows that she was capable of putting her foot down, yet since she’s too childish, she didn’t. I also understand that you could say she probably didn’t want to jab at Angel because she’s trying to be kind to all demons to help them better, but telling Angel to knock it off isn’t that hard. It’s so funny because this scene kinda showcases how Vaggie is more of the one who’s actually putting in the work for this hotel and cares, while Charlie just sits back and acts dimwitted. She’s the one in charge of this whole thing, it should have been HER talking to Angel, not Vaggie. So finally, let’s get to when ALASTOR arrives. Whoo boy. Once Alastor enters the picture, everyone kinda just ignores Vaggie. She’s pushed to the side, and when she TRIES to speak and voice her concerns, nobody listens to her. Let’s start at the beginning though. When Al knocks on the door, Vaggie says to not let Alastor in because they both know he’s dangerous (even though Charlie’s more powerful than him so I don’t know why she’s so afraid) but she doesn’t listen and let’s him in. I obviously don’t have a problem with that, what I DO have a problem with is Alastor constantly harassing Vaggie RIGHT IN FRONT of Charlie, while she just stares there blankly. Throughout the rest of the pilot, Alastor is constantly pushing Vaggie to the side, shoving her away, or even outright assaulting her, and the ENTIRE time, Charlie is either blind and doesn’t notice, or is watching this unfold with her OWN eyes and doesn’t do shit. She’s either too distracted by Al, or blatantly watches this asshat push her friend around, just letting it happen. Oh I’m sorry, not just Alastor, but ANGEL as well. If the limo scene wasn’t enough, once Al brings the bar in for Husk, Vaggie protests but Angel literally TACKLES HER TO THE DAMN GROUND, putting his hands on her and telling her to shut up RIGHT IN FRONT OF CHARLIE. And what does Charlie do? Nothing. It’s not even Angel’s fucking CALL to have a bar in a hotel, he’s not the one in charge, Charlie is, and yet she just goes with it and doesn’t say shit to him about pushing Vaggie to the side. It’s fucking ridiculous how all of this shit is happening right in front of her face, yet she doesn’t do or say anything. So of course, let’s talk about the scene where Vaggie pulls Charlie to the side and talks to her. Charlie does bring up a valid reason to let him help because if she didn’t it would be going against what she believes in, but she says she can take care of herself when.....well she’s literally done nothing BUT prove to everyone that they can walk all over her but whatever. The part that’s important is that Charlie for fucking ONCE actually listens to Vaggie and doesn’t make a deal with Al. I’m actually AMAZED, but still....that doesn’t let Charlie off the hook at all. Not only does she not do shit when the other characters push her friend around and treat her like garbage, but once Al wins her over, she’s so blind to notice how WORRIED and upset Vaggie is. Vaggie throughout Alastor’s song is constantly trying to get to Charlie but Al purposely pulls her away, and you feel so fucking bad for her because Charlie doesn’t even NOTICE! It’s disgusting how much of a PUNCHING bag character Vaggie is, just like Moxxie from Helluva Boss. It also hurts that even BEFORE Al came, Charlie never listened to Vaggie anyway, but now that this big powerful helping demon has entered the picture, she sure as hell won’t now. I SWEAR, Charlie is one of those characters where if you were Vaggie and said Alastor did something out of pocket, she would just go “Oh just go with it” or “oh it’s not THAT bad”. And here’s the thing. To wrap this all up, I KNOW that Charlie is naive, I KNOW that she can make her own decisions when you get to it without Vaggie, but the reason why I truly think she’s a bad girlfriend even in the pilot is just that she simply doesn’t support Vaggie in the same way Vaggie supports HER. Vaggie will always be by Charlie’s side, but Charlie is just too blind and stupid to care about what Vaggie says, or even take into CONSIDERATION what she says. She didn’t listen to her about the singing, she didn’t stick by her side when Angel ridiculed her, and she didn’t do anything when Al pushed her around. She may be caring, but she doesn’t support her, stand by her side, stick up for her, or do ANYTHING to help her the way vaggie helps her. From Charlie’s perspective, I GUESS you could say she’s just so happy that Al is making her dream a reality, but I’m sorry, I just feel so bad for Vaggie. VAGGIE..👏....DESERVES...👏.....BETTER. 👏 But I agree Charlie wasn't so bad as she is in the series well she was but in the series it's so worse
"If angels can do whatever and stay in the sky, then heaven is a lie" Bro, the existence of vaggie and LUCIFER literally destroys that point. They really thought they cooked with that line XD
Speaking as someone who was following the original pilot back when we all thought she'd be doing a "Dante's Inferno meets Black Butler" kind of story about the meaning of morality, the writing changes from pilot to tv show were expected, but man did it sting that she didn't go with her original story concepts...
She doesn’t understand morality. She wants to tell a story of how hypocritical heaven is without understanding the concept of good and evil. From the looks of it she has the pre school thinking. There is a difference between being “nice” and being good/holy.
Yeah, I also wished it was kept simple like in the pilot: Charlie and friends helped bad but not utterly irredeemable people and people who are misguided yet not unfixable and/or couldn’t redeem themselves when they wanted to in life, genuinely trying to help them in not only wanting to become better for the sake of it but also so that they don’t suffer for all of eternity in Hell. Also, Purgatory should’ve been introduced properly.
@@DanialTarkithat's the thing, I asked about it and apparently everyone and Viz said it doesn't exist because then hazbin would be redundant from my understanding. Which is funny as freak.
@@MrSophireI agree. Charlie is judging selfish hypocrite character too Charlie never ever listened to Vaggie only twice but that's all she is bad girlfriend to Vaggie and bad supporter Vaggie has only Charlie and had a past she wasn't proud of and was worried about losing her but instead of understanding Vaggie Charlie talked about herself to Alastor like it's her being betrayed by her girlfriend! She even didn't give at least Vaggie space to let her explain it! Yes if she would be only hurted alright but how acted was totally out of her character She even treated Vaggie as some kind of monster like she would be worse than all sinners Charlie was so cold at Vaggie When said clodly about angelic weapons: If you would know that would you tell me? She acted like Vaggie would be her enemy and a monster Yes they made it then but only cause of Rosie help and it doesn't change a fact how acted with Vaggie She never ever protected Vaggie when others disrespected Vaggie only once she tried to protect at the end but that's all she forces Vaggie in doing something she doesn't wanna do and if Vaggie does it it's only cause of Charlie but we can clearly see Vaggie sounded felt like she would be forced It most of the time seems like Charlie takes an advantage of Vaggie to do something what Charlie wanna Vaggie deserves better in my opinion Charlie is worst person character the facts I said I'll not repeat it it's already in answers In why Chaggie is toxic She made feel Angel dust like he wouldn't matter when was proud of Sir Pentious but seriously!? Angel dust stayed for free room yes but he wanna redeem himself he just hides it or something like that but Sir Pentious didn't wanna redemption at the first place before he wanted to betray them only! She didn't understand and respect Angels discomfort when Charlie came to his job cause of idiotic hotel! She was arrogant and even if ok she stayed but she wasn't quiet and was stupid enough to talk loudly to Travis about Hazbin Yes she said sorry but only cause how Angel dust screamed to Charlie it's with kids too when you scream at them and they cry and say sorry but don't know why but say sorry cause are screamed on And I know I'll repeat it again I'm sorry XD but she is toxic character she has trouble emotionally understanding the motivations and problems of other characters. - Self-reflection is missing, she only perceives her own one-sided view. - Empathy is rather superficial, she does not understand deeper human emotions. - Social interactions are difficult for her, she can't take a regard . - The world is divided into black and white, there is no complexity. even though she appears in the show as if she feels empathy like the pain of others but it's more superficial and it looks like she's focused on herself on her goal to change the demons end the extermination etc. Or about how others feel, for example sometimes Angel dust or sometimes mostly Vaggie and the other characters. Charlie is present with a selfish desire to pursue her dream at any cost without truly understanding the needs of others. Charlie is also selfish It was selfish of her how in the song Ready for this cannibals they sang about killing and how they will eat angels and Charlie just with a judgmental expression: ehh Well that's a little violent can we tone it down? Like what? Yes Charlie is a princess but that doesn't mean she can control their thinking as she wants. She was so judging than understanding. they like to be what they want and Charlie sounds so stupid she sounded like she didn't know they were cannibals. - The demons only sang about their natural nature as cannibals, which is their everyday reality. - But Charlie wanted to dictate to them how to limit their speech according to her taste. - At the same time, she clearly did not understand that for them, being a cannibal is their identity, which they are proud of. - Her rebuke seemed arrogant and she didn't understand their situation she is selfish some said she gives chances like she maybe gives a second chances but still make others feel not important did others how Angel felt?! Or Vaggie or Lucifer!? She doesn't listen what others want or their needs they have some they just wanna be the way they are - The fact that Charlie gives a second chance does not include her further actions and behavior and does not excuse her for the way she behaves. - As I said, she still does not listen to the needs of others and makes them less important. - She judges their true nature without understanding their situation, like as I said I'm Cannibal Town when Charlie started a war because Adam wanted to attack and the cannibals sang about how they would eat and kill angels. They were just happy and happy to be the way they are, but Charlie judged them: Ehh that's a little violent can we tone it down? Ughh they are little murder right now. It sounded like she didn't even know they were cannibals like hello Charlie didn't she realize clearly that cannibals would be murderous like this? (sorry but that was judgmental and toxic and selfish of her) she just wanted to direct them to suit her taste even though she is the princess she cannot control their behaviors or minds. -Moreover, some said that Charlie is giving a second chance, but she didn't give a chance to Adam before Nifty stabbed him and why didn't she give Lucifer a chance from the beginning? She called him for help just because she needed something and she didn't even want to call him because she thought he didn't want to see her while he was struggling with his depression. And then she judged him and said nonsense that: Why is Alastor here for me when my own father is not?) Like this was toxic selfish judgmental from her and she didn't give him a chance from the beginning. Charlia's words about Alastor in contrast to her father Lucifer were unempathetic and over the top. Even if she didn't know his true motives, she had no right to judge and compare him like that. - Lucifer wanted to protect her from danger, even if Charlie didn't know it. - He was struggling with his own problems and depression and it might have been too psychologically taxing to help her. - Alastor is a manipulator, his help was with a selfish intention, which she didn't notice, but she still knows Alastor's personality a little - She didn't take into account her father's emotional state and problems, she only focused on her own goals. (only then did she gave a chance to him, but she still judged him and didn't give him a chance at the beggining). Her words were inappropriate and showed her lack of empathy towards her own family. It was really over the line and out of line. She almost never apologized only some times but that's all And she is really hypocrite Alastor at the episodes 8 when was war between demons and angels exorcists and he protected hotel and main cast Adam hurted Al and Al disappeared but others didn't know it and thought he died Charlie didn't cry or anything she was like in the mind: Wow sad But when Sir Pentious protected them and died for them Charlie cried as a baby!! And even made portrait of him! But what about Alastor?!! Even if Alastor didn't protect them genuinely Charlie doesn't know it lol. Some people say she is really so empathic HA! She even didn't cry about Alastor Charlie and empathic?? It's rather superficial empathic! She doesn't wanna help others cause of joy or something like that She wanna help others cause she needs to or has to in order she would feel better about herself Charlie is hypocrite toxic judging and selfish
@@rachelgardnerorray lo de Alastor me pegó profundo, más sabiendo la parte en la que canta solo en su torre dd radio destruida y teniendo un colapso mental mientras el resto canta feliz y ni se preocupan de que haya pasado con él
i don't hate the idea of heaven not exactly being perfect sounds compelling, but the point is that Heaven is better. It has a better structure and treats its own people with decency. Problem is, the show isn't really telling us that. Its more leaning onto "both are just as bad" and i feel like just breaks the whole premise. I do love this show, but i do wish they did things more differently. I feel like if they were given more episodes, things could've gone smoother. Or took the risk and tried to be slower with plot, not telling us more about heaven and focusing on the main characters.
@@XppleCutiie I feel like the whole "both sides are just as bad" thing would never work because one side is full of rapists and murderers while the other... Isn't.
@@guerreiroazul3230 Like I said before... This story could've benefitted from the 'bad guys' being correct. Have the angels have the moral high ground and when Charlie tries to challenge them, they clap back HARD with very good and even agreeable points.... But Vivzie wanted the angels to be evil so... No nuance for Hazbin Hotel.
@@OneClassicalLass Exactly, but unfortunately a character is only as smart as the writer, so because Vivzie couldn't think of an argument for Charlie to be wrong then the angels couldn't think of one either.
For me, part of the problem is that even when she learns that Heaven is bad and won't accept her idea, she still wants to redeem sinner to go to Heaven. Like, shouldn't you rethink your big idea there for a second?
Yeah, Season 4 Star, sadly, was a victim of very bad writing. She was completely different from how she'd been written in the rest of the show. And the finale was disastrous!
Why are you so smart???? Like you have such a deep understanding of religion and good/bad writing. I agree with almost everything you say! I love your point that you can’t judge something you don’t understand based on seeing someone do it poorly.
From that summary, I feel like this show would've been a lot better if the creator wasn't so obsessed with dunking on Christianity that she forgot to give the characters any reason to exist or any sort of deeper meaning. Even as a Christian, it had the potential for me to enjoy it. Redemption and found family are probably my two favorite tropes ever. If that had been the central theme of Hazbin Hotel with the moral heart being about selflessness or compassion, then I think I could enjoy it. But there is no redemption (there is no CHANGE), they are not found family (they don't even seem to care about each other much aside from the one guy), every character (again, except the one guy) is selfish, and no one calls them out on it.
Problem with the show is that Charlie is a Mary sue.she needs to be aware that not everyone can be redeemed.What I hate about the show is that it has a lot of plot holes.i heard that the show was forced into 8 episodes which I get kinda is a excuse.i feel like bring back adam and giving him a redemption arc would be good cause adam would be a challenge for Charlie and challenges her beliefs While we get to see why Adam is the way he is and maybe get a clue of where is eve or Cain and Abel.i love hazbin hotel and all the characters and show but I’m not like the fan base I can admit when my favorite show has a lot of problems.hazbin hotel is the type of the show where you’ll need to turn off your brain to enjoy….my fav is Adam.
@@ikebanayukari448 thx.I don’t see how people can hate Adam.Cool design? Check! Cool powers?check! Dad bod with a belly? Check!Good songs? Check! In fact he’s one of the few characters that have the potential of being good if Vizi brings him back I think one of two things should happen.He becomes a overlord or two he seems out redemption but she better not make Adam weak like I sure to god he better not drop from a Lilith threat level to a regular sinner.
Not to mention she has been encouraging atrocious behavior to her fans for years to the point they pushed Shay and two more fans to suicide over ships.
@@Stratoblast The HuskerDust shippers harassed Shay for liking RadioDust on December 2023 to the point Shay committed suicide. After that, Chaggie and RadioApple shippers harassed Charlastor fans this past October that they took their own life as well. One Charlastor fan was 18 while the other Charlastor fan was 20.
Another problem I have is how Charlie does a terrible job at redeeming sinners. She could easily stop Angel dust from doing adult film since her father is the ruler of hell and she’s more powerful than Valentino.
It's cause she helps people or tries to help people to feed her ego she is narcisstic that's why she does terrible job at redeeming demons. 😂 But I agree with you! But people justify Charlie bruh
unless the soul contracts are absolute and the problem is more than just using force to remove the opposition. We don't know the intricacies of how far the contracts go. Just that signing your soul away means you lose your autonomy
@@sailorstar3148 Bro it says the right one which doesn't know what is narcissistic disorder XD rather you study that before youll retalk my argument by your weak arguments alright? Cause I know anything about narcissistic I can even tell you and then we can analyse Charlie and narcisstic disorder mmm? Alright? I'm wondering if you'll shout after XD
Just found your channel, and I love your style! So many videos about media are just pointing out the flaws. Which is fine I guess. But I appreciate creators who actually give insightful critiques on how to fix said problems or show examples of good writing in comparison to the bad. It’s refreshing!
Hey, thanks so much! Yeah, even though I didn't like the show, I still wanted to show ways it could've been better, and at least learn from its mistakes :)
gotta say I don't get the people who complain about the fact that your vid is lengthy. its incredibly well made and well researched and really highlights a lot of problems with this show.
Show would have been more appealing if they made the angels less the obvious bad guys. Like either Adam instead of the generic frat guy evil dude he’s a grizzled war vet seeing the worst hell has to offer over the years being the first human angel. But no he’s just generic evil frat guy this show had so much potential and now I just don’t care about it.
ehh I think the frat boy is fine but just let him explain his rationale more often. He's not killing innocent civilians he's killing objectively evil people. WHY DOESN'T HE CALL HER OUT ON THAT?
Charlie is exceedingly ignorant throughout the entire show she literally brought crayon drawings to a meeting deciding the fate of millions which should be a uwu shes so cute i like her thing but instead makes her look idiotic the show also makes her seem incredibly sheltered not knowing about the majority of how hell works her "trauma" isnt anything at all she thinks rehabilitating sinners is as simple as boy scout trust excercises she literally gave money to cherri and told her to go to a club with an addict who shes "trying" to rehabilitate This ignorance also extends to emily whos probably the equivalent to charlie she literally calls sinners innocent souls somehow she cant gasp the simple concept that hell exists for a reason They have a horrid problem with double standards for example angel getting sa'd should be sad and we feel bad for him but with pentious its a shitty joke The pacing , many would argue its due to only 8 episodes being available for a full 1st season which i think is stupid either demand more episodes or just put less into the 1st season issues arise because of the 8 episodes given and vivzies ass writing like emily just immediately siding with hell instead of the place she was literally born and raised in It also struggles with giving any consequences to people and make bad people seem good for example lucifer caused pretty much the creation of evil but its ok because uwu hes just a depressed twink angel too were supposed to feel sympathetic for and like him which is impossible when hes annoying as shit and his trauma doesnt justify it Absoloutely nobody in the entire main cast is written well but at the very least they could have made them enjoyable but they couldnt even accomplish that for anybody except for alastor
It would have been interesting if Charlie brought the crayon drawings BECAUSE she din't have any other writing utensils on hand. Because someone at the hotel destroyed all the other writing stuff. That might have made her choice to show such drawings more understandable/reasonable.
@@DrawciaGleam02 o simplemente hubiera presentado el proyecto de una forma seria. Quizás una carpeta con los antecedentes y mejoras que van teniendo los residentes de su hotel (quizás, dada la personalidad de Charlie, decorada con varios stickers y dibujos). Digo, en un centro de Rehabilitación o en una sesión de terapia debe haber algo que registrado lo que tenga el paciente y el cómo va mejorando. Esto, la redención es un sistema complejo, no es un jardín de niños con actividades como los juegos, canciones y ejercicios de confianza como propone Charlie
I've said before that I think Adam's characterization would work a lot better if it were applied to Samson-and if anyone is curious, I'd be more than willing to explain why-but I can think of another individual who would be *much* more effective antagonistic force towards anyone proclaiming the possibility of Hellions redeeming themselves. In fact, I can think of *seven* such individuals. While they aren't canon by any means, sources describe a group of Seven "Angels of Punishment" who, as their title implies, exist to deliver God's judgement upon those who violate His laws. Of these Angels, two in particular would make for an almost PERFECT antithesis to Charlie. The first of these is Kushiel. For one, his name literally means RIGID ONE OF GOD. His personality practically writes itself. Not to mention the fact that his sole purpose is *punishing sinners in Hell.* Imagine if Charlie burst into the meeting room with her crayon drawings, ready to explain her genius plan for redeeming Sinners, only to come face-to-face with a massive Archangel holding a literal whip of flames who is also personally responsible for introducing scores of condemned to a very literal world of pain. That being said, the second one might be even better- Raguel, described as the Archangel of Justice, Fairness, and Harmony. His specific purpose is to keep Demons from "overstepping their boundaries", and has even been equated with a sheriff or police officer in the way he carries out his duties. Not to mention, his name-which means "Friend of God"-would imply that he is VERY devoted to his Creator, and view the very *idea* of Sinners being redeemed after being consigned to Hell as an insult due to the implication that God was in the wrong for sending Sinners to Hell in the first place. Either one of these guys could work as being in charge of the Exterminations-Heck I think it'd be interesting if it was a team effort from all seven Angels of Punishment-and the fact that any one of them is capable of going toe-to-toe with Satan's top minions and possibly even coming out victorious would put pressure on Charlie to find a way to win against them on the *ideological* battleground rather than the *literal* one.
Listen... I think the phrase "She cooked" should be for videos like yours! Because you didn't just cook, you sauteed, you grilled, you fried, you just ... You did it!! Great video! I love long form content, so I spent two hours writing notes on the original mythology I'm working on whilst listening to your video, and it really helped me focus!! Keep it up! I love your videos and your personality, and the way you deliver your views!! Very well done!!
@@jazzandghostOh and I also agree with your point on villains! Villains doing partially the right thing OR having a good/understandable motive makes a good villain. My FAVORITE example of a good villain with understandable and maybe even the right motives is Magneto!!! What he does is terrible for sure, BUT his motives for doing so isn't! Magneto was a victim of the Holocaust, Lost his parents and sister to Nazis, lost his daughter to cruel men and his wife to fear.... in his eye he's seen the worst humanity has to offer, they can and sometimes do, eradicate what they don't like or what they fear.... Ok short: HUMANS ARE CRUEL. And he kept this view as he grew up- he thought that humans would destroy mutants, kill them... "Take the to the gas chambers" so to speak, and to protect mutants and ensure they don't get wiped out by 'inferior' humans, he thinks they should rise above humans and rule over them... and view humans as inferior... Or kill them all first. Magneto has done some horrid crap, but you can see why!!! Magneto wants liberation through violence..... He has an ANY MEANS necessary approach! That's why Xavier and the X-Men are perfect adversaries, Xavier strives for equality between the humans and mutants alike and strives for PEACE not violence! That's why Magneto is a good villain! He's so complex, seriously! A less complex version of this would be MCU's Ultron. He saw a glimpse of the world wide web and thought "All humans must die!!!" To be fair, if my first interaction with humanity was the Internet... I'd want them all dead too!! So yeah, villains shouldn't be just simplistic, EVER!! Even seemingly simple villains are complex and much deeper- that's why we love them!! People can like simple villains sure, but the complex ones with story and crap- they get ALL the love!!! Sorry I went on a tangent there.... Sorry I made you hungry, thanks for wishing me luck on my mythology, I'll need it... And prayer 😊!!!
For me, the moral grey area in the concept of hell has never been whether or not people who've done horrific crimes deserve to be punished for it. It's the unilateral application of eternal damnation as a punishment for everyone regardless of the severity of the crime. Everybody knows sex traffickers are bad people who probably should go to hell, but is the lesbian couple next door _really_ equally guilty? If the story was meant to explore the concept of moral gray areas it shouldn't have focused on extreme cases and instead focused on the everyday people who get marginalized by Christianity and it's effects on social politics. That would certainly justify the idea that heaven is too judgemental. By focusing on Charlie trying to "redeem sinners" it's only further reinforcing the social constructs it's aiming to deconstruct. She's also unilaterally applying her morals to all sinners which paints them all in the same light despite the fact that there is a difference. Unless the idea is that Charlie's ambitions are meant to be a parody of Christ, but given the show seems to be unwilling to challenge her mindset, I'm not too sure that was the intent.
Aside from the dilemma that the Christian community has had for ages over deciding which parts of the language around hell are literal and which are metaphorical, one interesting thing I can note is that Jesus directly addressed this grey area of punishment versus crime. In the book of Luke, chapter 12, Jesus uses a parable (stories often using similes to parallel real truths) about a man’s household of servants. A servant who abuses his fellow workers is given capital punishment; another servant who abuses no one but knowingly defies instructions receives many lashings; and a servant who did not know precisely what he was assigned to do, but did inappropriate things regardless, receives very few lashings. This is presumably where many Christians derive the idea of “circles” or “layers” of hell. So whatever a sexually promiscuous but otherwise decent person faces in hell (which, in fact, is NOT because of their sexual immorality, but rather for not seeking relationship with the Messiah, their Creator), is never going to reach the levels of absolute punishment for those who do evil deeds toward others. p.s. Edgeworth pfp is a chad move, much respect
@@marche800 That is a completely fair question to ask about hell. And, in short, my answer would be that the idea of everyone receiving equal punishment simply is a false assumption and not what the Bible teaches. Let me back up that claim. For example, in Matthew 10:15, Jesus says “Truly I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment, than for that city.” In John 19:11 he says “…the one who handed Me over to you has the greater sin.” We can also look at the old Testament. Proverbs 6:16 says “There are six things the Lord hates, seven that are detestable to him….” And we can go back further to the Torah like Numbers 15:22-30 which lays out what to do in cases of unintentional sins vs. intentional ones. Throughout the Bible, there are distinctions made between different sins. They are not all treated equally. They do not all receive equal judgment, as Jesus explains himself. The word “sin” really just means a crime as defined by God rather than by a government authority. The fact that a number of actions are legally put under the category of “crime”, does not mean they are all equal. Many people might “go to jail”, but they will not have the same experience even if in the same place. Some might go to solitary confinement, for example, and not everyone will have to serve the same sentence. In a similar way, all sins are worthy of “going to hell”, but there’s no reason to assume that everyone has the same experience there or even that it’s static (unchanging). Hope this explanation makes sense. Feel free to ask follow-up questions! Have a good one
@@marche800 The problem that i with hell is the Hazbin universe is that hell isn't a punishment, there's no flame, lashings or anything of the sort, it's just a place where bad people go to and that's it, nothing about the place in itself is really bad
"Everything is sh*t and we all suck." -St. Paul (paraphrased, of course) Hazbin Hotel (and Helluva Boss) takes me back to Panty and Stocking. A series with a unique art style but hypocritical views and religious taboos and blasphemy. Presbyterians are a subset of Protestants (if it's not Catholic or Orthodox it's Protestant). The only reason the Protestant church exists is because the Catholic Church was corrupt during Martin Luther's time. There's a line from Stephen King's Children of the Corn that states very clearly what offbrand Christianity is. The main character, Bert, holds up a bible and asks "are you changing all of it or only the parts that suit your needs?" Later he says, "any religion without love and compassion is false."
The victim blaming for Angel Dust was unnecessary though. He’s a frustrating character but he shouldn’t be blamed for being in an abusive relationship 1:44:31… super weird comment girl
The story should've just left the whole "free will" thing out. It wasn't necessary, and would've at least somewhat vindicated Lucifer and made it easier to deal with potentially more complicated and interesting characters like Angel. Angel is responsible for the decisions he makes AND he is also a victim of the decisions that Val makes. Both things can be true.
@@jazzandghostI actually do agree with that first part and I think Vivziepop straight up misunderstood the “free will” aspect in Paradise Lost which she’s clearly taking inspiration from. But your wording frames it like it’s his fault. Angel Dust blaming himself doesn’t mean we as the audience are meant to blame him. The entire song (which I do despise for several reasons) is about him coping with that trauma, with self blame and degradation.
@@jazzandghostI agree with you on that take. I'm a former "adult movie" actor, think cheap European movies from the 90s. That was many years ago, 30 years in fact, and I was the one responsible for the situation I was in. I was asked what I thought about the character, that's why I know about this show. It wasn't a fun situation, and knew and lost many people because of this. I certainly don't want that lifestyle to appear attractive and fun for younger people. And it's deeper than that, as you can't never fix your life and yourself if you have a victim mindset, how can you fix something if you think you did nothing wrong ? It's not a good way to portray this situation.
I agree! They make Adam look like he is only bad one but not others like Alastor yes he is evil psychopath but Vivzie makes him to look like he is like Dexter and also that he is mama's boy and anti hero like the hell no way he is like Dexter anti hero and mama's boy maybe he is little mama's boy but not totally. Cause in the show he doesn't act like mama's boy nor as anti hero nor as Dexter.
Look, my problem with Charlie is that I don't understand her or Vaggie, there are people who say that "you didn't understand the character" but for me it's literal, I don't understand Charlie, to begin with what I understood is that Charlie wanted make his parents proud by proving that his father was wrong and that there was goodness in these beings and thus continue his mother's legacy of bringing prosperity, ok very good, but my problem is why do you create an establishment dedicated to a service that you do not Do you know if it is possible? No It's the same as you telling me that she had the hypothesis that it was possible and that she wanted to try it with Ángel Dust and Sir Pentius, and upon verifying that they did come up, then she would create the Hazbin hotel, we don't know how she came up with the idea either. That is to say, she read it in a story, she saw it in a movie, what was her thought process to arrive at the idea that redemption in hell is possible? Also, what parameters is she using to define who a person is a good person from a bad person?, just be nice to them?
@@pjdixon6199 No, seriously. Think about it for a minute. Both shows have their role as good and bad switched (kinda). Sounds familiar, doesn't it? Plus, Vivzie has had a small history with Villainous.
I have been to old for this cartoon even back when it was first on RUclips. So I had literally only watched the pilot once. But it didn't hit me back then that the Lesbian couples names are Charlie and Vaggie. A gender neutral but masculine leaning name. And one that sounds like female genitalia. This would have been clever. In the late 80s. Now it is like a brick to the face. Also I judge "to old" not by age specifically. But instead by if the thing I am experiencing is new enough to me to be interesting. This show would have being interesting to me in 2012 and down right original to me in 2008. But I had seen or thought of things like this long before 2019.
I would say that doesn't mean you are too old, just you are very aware and the thing doesn't bring something new. When it comes to shows, you are almost never too old for it. I think it is more wisdom and possibly change of taste. But yeah there is no subtly here for the imagination.
The reason she’s named vaggie is actually bc she was an angel (suprised) named by THE Adam himself. In the show he’s a womanizing POS. Hope that clears it up
Names are just names. They went with them because they sounded cool. They're not necessarily trying to make a statement but maybe Vaggie they are. Guys are named Dick
Hot take (based on general opinions): I dislikes Charlie the most. Vaggie annoys me the most. Sera, Lucifer and angels in high position are pathetic. Alastor doesn't impress nor intimidate me like the pilot and that let me down so much. Husk, Lute and Adam are tolerable and likable to me because one is level-headed, acts reasonable like an adult while I really enjoy the others' song and bashing on MC. The hell and heaven system is shit.
I agree with you. But about Alastor they are totally the same I mean personalities. Just in the show his intentions and act are more extended than in the pilot that's why. I prefer so much more Al than Charlie 😂
@@Pomeranian690 Same about prefering Alastor. I just feel like the way he showcases himself in the show is more on "all bark no bite" side. Like I don't see the process of his evil doing that much nor threatening when every of his reputation is only tell not show.
@Bluegleam It's shown he is evil psychopath without redeeming qualities but I agree it wasn't too much shown at the show it's cause if Vivzie would do that all people would probably find out that and realize Alastor is evil psychopath with no redeeming qualities. And Vivzie probably doesn't want that or I don't know
@@Pomeranian690 ok how about we don't use that word, let me be clear i'm not psychologist but psychopath sociopath is disorder and linked them to being evil is ableist. There are people who have this disorder they don't feel other human emotion like guilt sympathy empathy etc it didn't make them a monster. Their brain just have different way to work let me tell you something people who can feel sympathy empathy guilt remorse they are capable of being horrible person. I do agree he doesn't have any redeeming quality but please don't be ableist
@evanderzufarsetiawan2511 I'm not saying all psychopaths or sociopaths are evil and that are monsters I never saw them as monsters I only say Alastor is evil psychopath. And still I love this character. Not to mention my boyfriend is evil and psychopath and I love him the way he is and I dont say he is a monster. So I don't judge people with psychopathy or sociopathy. But still thanks to point it out but I know not all people with these conditions are evil and that aren't monsters ❤
In my personal opinion, Introducing Lucifer(at least in S1) Was the worst decision they could’ve made for Charlie’s character. Like all of the character moments Charlie could’ve had(like defeating or more like fighting with him head to head Adam)were all given to him. And that could’ve been the biggest sign of growth for her. And I also wish they kept Lucifer and Charlie making up saved for season 2. Especially since apparently Lilith won’t even be introduced yet. Another thing, for season 1 I wish they kept Lucifer be portrayed the same way he was in the pilot. At least for that season. Don’t think either are terrible characters, but there definitely could’ve been things handled better with writing and pacing.
Well. . . actually, Lucifer was never really in the pilot. Just some background portraits and a split second silhouetted background shot of him with no speaking lines whatsoever. Saying things like "how he was in the pilot" honestly doesn't make any sense. Because the audience knew next to nothing about what kind of character he was, people were just making assumptions about what he's like, and weren't happy when he didn't fit that long ingrained headcannon. I also have to disagree with leaving Lucifer for season 2, because I feel the first two seasons would have been an appropriate amount of time for him and Charlie to work out their disagreements on sinners and redemption, and eventually come to an understanding at the end of a second season and become closer. Besides, in the show proper, Lucifer only shows up for a measly two episodes, so how is him being there in any way bad for Charlie's character? That really doesn't make any sense. If anything, the problem was the exact opposite, as he didn't show up nearly enough for us to see more of their differing ideas on redemption, see how they could have challenged each others viewpoints, and how they could have both been correct and incorrect about sinners in general, and both gain good character development from that. Then their reconciliation would have felt more rewarding and earned. I do feel they made Charlie too much in the right between her and Lucifer, especially since Lucifer would obviously know way more about sinners, Heaven and Hell than her. Being wrong about certain things and learning valuable lessons about people from her dad would have actually been good for her character development. And he could learn valuable lessons about people from her too, and also gain good development from that. Just some huge missed opportunities. (More Than Anything is still a gorgeous song though) I also have to heavily disagree on the "Charlie should've been the one to fight Adam" thing, because keep in mind, while Charlie does have the potential to be very powerful, she has next to no fighting experience whatsoever, as she'd rather help and become friends with people, and only starts to get physical when sufficiently pushed, and even then she doesn't know how to actually fight. And she's clearly lived a sheltered and pampered life for living in Hell. If you actually pay attention to Charlie in the final fight, you can see she was mostly fighting defensively, not offensively. At least until Sir Pentious was "killed", and we all know how well that turned out for her. Especially since Adam has way more combat experience than her, she never would have stood a chance. Now compare that to Lucifer, who is way more powerful than Charlie, and has thousands of years of experience ahead of her, and the grudge he and Adam would have with each other for obvious reasons.(albeit, they didn't highlight that very well, which was a huge missed opportunity, as an Adam and Lucifer rivalry would have made so much more sense and been more plot relevant than the stupid, unfunny thing with him and Alastor that came out of nowhere and made no sense) And since Adam broke his end of the deal about Hellborns not getting hurt during the extermination (which again, I wish they had made that more clear when Lucifer showed up at the battle) It HAD to be Lucifer vs. Adam. I also really hate how viewers seriously think an obviously inexperienced female character needing to be saved by someone stronger and more experienced than her, especially when that someone is a parental figure, is "detrimental" to her, or somehow makes her "weak". Especially so early in the show since all we have is a short 8 episode first season. It shouldn't even matter that it was a man who saved her. I just never liked that sentiment. Suddenly being able to fight and defeat someone who is obviously stronger is NOT what makes a female character "strong". Especially since this is a toxic sentiment I've been seeing more and more these days. And this doesn't just apply to Hazbin by the way. She should at least be given some time to gain more experience and learn to hold her own in a fight. If she still needs saving from bad situations on and on again as the show goes on, or Lucifer is continuously used as an easy fix for her problems, then I feel that criticism will become valid. I'm really sorry that this was pretty long by the way.
@@priscillapineda3204 Thanks for the response, but I never said Charlie was “weak” I just said HER defeating Adam would’ve been a good sign of character growth since the two of them were often shown on opposing sides. On top of that, we’ve seen more of Charlie and Adam then of Lucifer and Adam. So it just would’ve been more rewarding to see. And I’m very much aware Lucifer had no speaking lines. I was referring to how he was portrayed. In a lot of the shots they show his shadow as this powerful figure(which is why a lot of fans thought he would be evil at first). And I don’t think it was a terrible Idea for him to be introduced story wise. I said it was BAD FOR CHARLIE’S CHARACTER. More so her development. Charlie is a very confusing character because they never clearly explain why she wants to do this. You could say it’s because of her father but he was directly opposed to the idea and was kept away from Charlie. She could’ve definitely been inspired by her mother, but who knows how keen Lilith was of the idea.
@@priscillapineda3204 Also a lot of the depth she was implied to have especially regarding her childhood, was kind thrown out the window when her and her dad made up in one episode. If you’re wondering what I’m referring to, I’m talking about the phone call Charlie had with her mom in the pilot and she says “Maybe dad was right about me” which maybe says Lucifer wasn’t entirely keen on Charlie’s ideas and was hard on her, which is why I said “he was different from the pilot” or at least how people thought he was. The revealed him to be a nurturing parent who’s just worried for his daughter’s safety. Which there is nothing wrong with. But I feel like it robs Charlie and Lucifer from having way more interesting characters and dynamics. I actually am EXTREMELY similar to Charlie. So it would’ve been nice if they didn’t make up in one episode, because seeing Charlie’s “daddy issues” or knowing she had them was really healing for me. And I am by no means calling the show bad, or calling the characters bad, or saying it should’ve changed or went another way. This is just my opinion and my projections and observations. Basically what I’m saying is that people thought Lucifer wouldn’t have agreed with Charlie’s plans because he was evil, not because he was concerned for her. And I’m not saying the characterization they gave him in the show as wrong, but I wish they handled it in a more fulfilling way and giving their dynamic more depth. Some of the depth they were implied to have in the pilot.
I disagree that wasn't that bad really. I mean...she did help fight Adam though. I mean he is the same from the pilot, he didn't believe in her at first.
@@Jdudec367 Can you elaborate? And if you’re referring to Lucifer when you said “he is the same from the pilot” note that I am talking about HOW PEOPLE(IN THE FANDOM)PERCEIVED LUCIFER. They thought Lucifer would be evil and more hard on Charlie based on some of Charlie’s dialogue and how they would always show him during the pilot as this mysterious power shadow(hence when he was towering over Charlie in the “Always Chasing Rainbows” song when Charlie says “Why have I always been a failure?” Also alluding to the fact that she has been told that from her father. And during the pilot it seemed to be a common theme with Charlie’s character about her “being a failure” and that honestly would’ve been a really good character detail if they had kept that up with Charlie in the show. Since a lot of people believe her character to be boring.
Star isn't inspiring, she's basically Hitler. She committed a genocide against magical creatures and most likely lead to massive human death when she violated earth so she could date her high school crush. She's the most selfish animated character of all time.
@@kylethomas9130Well Charlie from hazbin isn't better. Charlie is judging selfish hypocrite character too. Charlie never ever listened to Vaggie only twice but that's all she is bad girlfriend to Vaggie and bad supporter Vaggie has only Charlie and had a past she wasn't proud of and was worried about losing her but instead of understanding Vaggie Charlie talked about herself to Alastor like it's her being betrayed by her girlfriend! She even didn't give at least Vaggie space to let her explain it! Yes if she would be only hurted alright but how acted was totally out of her character She even treated Vaggie as some kind of monster like she would be worse than all sinners Charlie was so cold at Vaggie When said clodly about angelic weapons: If you would know that would you tell me? She acted like Vaggie would be her enemy and a monster Yes they made it then but only cause of Rosie help and it doesn't change a fact how acted with Vaggie She never ever protected Vaggie when others disrespected Vaggie only once she tried to protect at the end but that's all she forces Vaggie in doing something she doesn't wanna do and if Vaggie does it it's only cause of Charlie but we can clearly see Vaggie sounded felt like she would be forced It most of the time seems like Charlie takes an advantage of Vaggie to do something what Charlie wanna Vaggie deserves better in my opinion Charlie is worst person character the facts I said I'll not repeat it it's already in answers In why Chaggie is toxic She made feel Angel dust like he wouldn't matter when was proud of Sir Pentious but seriously!? Angel dust stayed for free room yes but he wanna redeem himself he just hides it or something like that but Sir Pentious didn't wanna redemption at the first place before he wanted to betray them only! She didn't understand and respect Angels discomfort when Charlie came to his job cause of idiotic hotel! She was arrogant and even if ok she stayed but she wasn't quiet and was stupid enough to talk loudly to Travis about Hazbin Yes she said sorry but only cause how Angel dust screamed to Charlie it's with kids too when you scream at them and they cry and say sorry but don't know why but say sorry cause are screamed on And I know I'll repeat it again I'm sorry XD but she is toxic character she has trouble emotionally understanding the motivations and problems of other characters. - Self-reflection is missing, she only perceives her own one-sided view. - Empathy is rather superficial, she does not understand deeper human emotions. - Social interactions are difficult for her, she can't take a regard . - The world is divided into black and white, there is no complexity. even though she appears in the show as if she feels empathy like the pain of others but it's more superficial and it looks like she's focused on herself on her goal to change the demons end the extermination etc. Or about how others feel, for example sometimes Angel dust or sometimes mostly Vaggie and the other characters. Charlie is present with a selfish desire to pursue her dream at any cost without truly understanding the needs of others. Charlie is also selfish It was selfish of her how in the song Ready for this cannibals they sang about killing and how they will eat angels and Charlie just with a judgmental expression: ehh Well that's a little violent can we tone it down? Like what? Yes Charlie is a princess but that doesn't mean she can control their thinking as she wants. She was so judging than understanding. they like to be what they want and Charlie sounds so stupid she sounded like she didn't know they were cannibals. - The demons only sang about their natural nature as cannibals, which is their everyday reality. - But Charlie wanted to dictate to them how to limit their speech according to her taste. - At the same time, she clearly did not understand that for them, being a cannibal is their identity, which they are proud of. - Her rebuke seemed arrogant and she didn't understand their situation she is selfish some said she gives chances like she maybe gives a second chances but still make others feel not important did others how Angel felt?! Or Vaggie or Lucifer!? She doesn't listen what others want or their needs they have some they just wanna be the way they are - The fact that Charlie gives a second chance does not include her further actions and behavior and does not excuse her for the way she behaves. - As I said, she still does not listen to the needs of others and makes them less important. - She judges their true nature without understanding their situation, like as I said I'm Cannibal Town when Charlie started a war because Adam wanted to attack and the cannibals sang about how they would eat and kill angels. They were just happy and happy to be the way they are, but Charlie judged them: Ehh that's a little violent can we tone it down? Ughh they are little murder right now. It sounded like she didn't even know they were cannibals like hello Charlie didn't she realize clearly that cannibals would be murderous like this? (sorry but that was judgmental and toxic and selfish of her) she just wanted to direct them to suit her taste even though she is the princess she cannot control their behaviors or minds. -Moreover, some said that Charlie is giving a second chance, but she didn't give a chance to Adam before Nifty stabbed him and why didn't she give Lucifer a chance from the beginning? She called him for help just because she needed something and she didn't even want to call him because she thought he didn't want to see her while he was struggling with his depression. And then she judged him and said nonsense that: Why is Alastor here for me when my own father is not?) Like this was toxic selfish judgmental from her and she didn't give him a chance from the beginning. Charlia's words about Alastor in contrast to her father Lucifer were unempathetic and over the top. Even if she didn't know his true motives, she had no right to judge and compare him like that. - Lucifer wanted to protect her from danger, even if Charlie didn't know it. - He was struggling with his own problems and depression and it might have been too psychologically taxing to help her. - Alastor is a manipulator, his help was with a selfish intention, which she didn't notice, but she still knows Alastor's personality a little - She didn't take into account her father's emotional state and problems, she only focused on her own goals. (only then did she gave a chance to him, but she still judged him and didn't give him a chance at the beggining). Her words were inappropriate and showed her lack of empathy towards her own family. It was really over the line and out of line. She almost never apologized only some times but that's all And she is really hypocrite Alastor at the episodes 8 when was war between demons and angels exorcists and he protected hotel and main cast Adam hurted Al and Al disappeared but others didn't know it and thought he died Charlie didn't cry or anything she was like in the mind: Wow sad But when Sir Pentious protected them and died for them Charlie cried as a baby!! And even made portrait of him! But what about Alastor?!! Even if Alastor didn't protect them genuinely Charlie doesn't know it lol. Some people say she is really so empathic HA! She even didn't cry about Alastor Charlie and empathic?? It's rather superficial empathic! She doesn't wanna help others cause of joy or something like that She wanna help others cause she needs to or has to in order she would feel better about herself Charlie is hypocrite toxic judging and selfish.
Loser is not about being terrible.It's about suffering, Angel was abused by Valentino, his soul owned by him. When he returned back to the hotel, he puts on a mask, covering who he really is. Husk was saying, don't think your the ownly one, there are others like you and they completely understand.
@@MsHood1986 yeah another RUclips covered the song by itself and the true meaning of the song is like “boohoo you’re life is so hard, well tough love sweetheart, you’re not special in that regard . Everyone’s life is hard.”
For me, the whole song feels like it’s saying “Your life is shit, and nothing will change that, so just accept it. But hey, at least you have people to trauma-bond with!” I get that wasn’t the intention, but I don’t know how to interpret it any other way.
@@toastysweaters5692 and to be fair isn’t that the point of art that it can be interpreted in different ways. A certain work could mean something else to someone. For example Disney’s original Pete’s Dragon most people who watch see it as a corny film, for me I think Elliot the dragon is a supernatural element to aid kids in trauma kind of like Matilda’s telekinesis abilities in Matilda. To explain my point on Elliot we know that Pete was horribly abused by the Gogins and Elliot came and rescue him. He shadows him to both protect him from those who would harm him (like pushing the egg seller who kicked Pete) as well as trying to put a smile on his face (the tic tac toe in the cave, him copying Pete in town, messing around before completely disappearing, etc) he is only comfortable leaving Pete once he knew he was safe and in loving environment in order to save the next kid that was in trouble. I could be reading the film too deep but that was my interpretation of it. So your interpretation of Loser could be as equally valid
This is a channel that deserves to blow up. I mean, two videos with such high (deserved) engagement, such top-tier editing, the lore of your personas, and the interactivity? RUclips partner material, right here. If it's okay, can I share the channel? I have a Fandom account, and think you guys deserve more attention
Humans: *Eat the Fruit of Knowledge, thus creating Hell and damning all of creation to be eternally corrupted by Sin* Lucifer: What can I say except "You're welcome", for the wonderful world that you know!
@@christopherbravo1813 and he still has the gall to lie to his dauther and HIMSELF, that he gave humanity "free will". I hust can't with this shit. No wonder adam wanted to kill himself in episode 8 if the angel's were this deep into nepotism. I mean, ffs, they gave him a kingdom to rule and his "wife"billions of souls and creatures to enslave
@@elmascapo6588 "You were the perfection of wisdom and beauty. You were in Eden, the garden of God. Your clothing was adorned with every precious stone - red carnelian, chrysolite, white moonstone, beryl, onyx, jasper, sapphire, turquoise, and emerald - all beautifully crafted for you and set in the finest gold. They were given to you on the day you were created. I ordained and anointed you as the mighty angelic guardian. You had access to the holy mountain of God and walked among the stones of fire. You were blameless in all you did from the day you were created until the day evil was found in you. Your great wealth filled you with violence, and you sinned. So I banished you from the mountain of God. I expelled you, O mighty guardian, from your place among the stones of fire. Your heart was filled with pride because of all your beauty. You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor. So I threw you to the earth and exposed you to the curious gaze of kings. You defiled your sanctuaries with your many sins and your dishonest trade. So I brought fire from within you, and it consumed you. I let it burn you to ashes on the ground in the sight of all who were watching. All who knew you are appalled at your fate. You have come to a terrible end, and you are no more"
Heartbreak Hotel was indeed underwhelming. And I didn't even watch Episodes 7 and 8! It was sheer torture trying to get through each episode, I was checking the time every 5 minutes. Charlie's childish, schizo behaviour and inability to understand that others aren't exactly of a similar frame of mind to her get her all caught up in herself, and it drove me up the wall. Vaggie has no personality whatsoever and merely echoes her thoughts. Lucifer, originally the greatest of all angels - a deadbeat doomer dad, with a fetish for ducks and unwilling to assert his authority. And Lilith is calling the shots and left him to do goodness knows what. Alastor is a paper tiger, The 3 V's are forgettable, as is Nifty. Angel's potential was never fulfilled, Husk was there, and only Ser Pentious truly delivered. Adam was the greatest character. A ton of filler, the entire series was incredibly fast-paced, rushing back and forth like it had ADHD. And similar to what Reaper said in his critique of the show - Heartbreak Hotel is "safe edgy," it's using vulgar language, innuendo, gore and mockery of Christianity (which has been commonplace in cartoons for 20 years) to seem cool and out there, but is instead very sterile in its delivery and is more of a hindrance than a help.
I’m a Christian and critiques like Hazbin hotel always baffles me. Like seriously she’s going to say all of hell is innocent like seriously you do know what kind of peoples of people end up to be here. Also as much as people like Angel as a character he was apparently in the mafia dude was not innocent at all. Charlie shouldn’t have been the main character because it takes away from the whole point of the show, you know redemption of a sinner!!!!!
Not to mention also Charlie should give redeeming plan and princess title to someone else for example Rachel gardner from angels of death anime she has trauma and little issues yes but is kind forgives and is understanding she would know they aren't innocent unlike Charlie which has weird view. She shouldn't exist since also she has narcisstic disorder and I can say why if you're wondering of course
Anyone who isn't christian ends up in hell, so no there are innocents here and even those that aren't don't deserve an infinite punishment for finites crimes no matter how big these crimes are
@@________4993 yes, non christians go to hell, that's the WHOLE POINT of christianity, that you need to be perfect to enter heaven but since everyone is a sinner no one can and we need jesus to pay for our sins so as soon as you're not christian you automatically go to hell, no you could try to make the argument that hell might not even exist in christianity since they make a big deal out of jesus's resurrection and that he said if you dom't follow him you die but if we assume hell exists then every non christian go to it
Those were actually metaphors of what they were trying to actually convey that people that sin aren’t what they seem to be, and sometimes winners cheat.
It’s annoying that the writers just kinda expected the audience to all have been following the non-show content (like the 2 comics and the instagram stuff) to know a bunch of stuff in the background that is supposed to make the story feel more fleshed out. Just makes everything feel even more half baked
It amazes me that people do not realize you cant believe in a biblical hell but not believe in a biblical God/heaven and how it works. One would not be there without the other. It seems like the creator doesnt believe in God, thinks its fake, but is a 12 y.o that loves the idea of hell. i want to add im not religious. I think shes afraid to talk about morality and bring up what people are doing is wrong because she doesnt want to offend anyone in her audience 😂
Another problem with Hazbin Hotel I have is we never know if Adam ate the fruit or not if yes, Why is he in heaven cause last I read the story, Adam and Eve was banished out of Eden and why does he hates sinners when he and his new gal brought sin to the world? If no, how did sin enter their world cause if Adam didn't eat fruit, did he just off himself and Eve just magically spawn babies? Also I didn't hate Charlie, but I would have preferred if Charlie had some negative experiences to redeem sinners or suffered from extermination instead of having a princess who just pities her people cause she thinks her peeps are innocent as if Charlie doesn't know some people who oofed and went to hell are irredeemable. Speaking of redeemable, how do angels judge demons? For example Adam and Lute swear 24/7 in the show but in helluva boss, Keenie tells Collin not to use the Lord's name in vain and Collin himself gave Cletus the stare when he calls Lyle a shitty old man. So, how does heaven judge someone. Do they just stare at one good thing you do and ignore all your faults? In the show, Charlie felt like Linda Belcher, Star Butterfly, Marinette Dupain-Chang and Queen Poppy but more childish. True these characters can be stubborn and immature but at least they don't claim to know better than their obstacles e.g Poppy and her fellow trolls convince the bergens to accept their differences and tell them they can be happy unlike Charlie who would have forced it down their throats. And these characters I've listed have moments where they listen to their voice of reasoning partners but Charlie, everytime Vaggie says "Charlie, just don't", Charlie does the opposite, I think the worst of it, was in episode 6, Vaggie clearly doesn't want to go to heaven but Charlie forces her and this is a very negative trait in relationship that's regarded as cute. But I think my comment is too long so I'll end it here. Hope I'm not offending anyone.
I feel like instead of trying to rehabilitate people in hell they could have used purgatory as a sort of middle ground. it could have easily been written so that those who don't get sent right to heaven or hell are in a waiting room situation where depending on their actions they would be sent up or down. heck maybe write where Charlie dose try to rehabilitate sinners but see just how bad it is then sets her sights on purgatory so she can help them avoid the terrible fate she knows is waiting for them. Have the angels be a bit reluctant to receive help from her a demon but once she proves she wants to help they allow her to build a hotel to help people in purgatory. and make the villain her father so vivz' can get the daddy issues she seems to always crave in main characters where Lucifer doesn't like what Charlie is doing as he wants more people to come down and suffer. This can allow Charlie to see how sheltered her views are as she fights against her father to do what is right, his pride vs her morals. Make it where while Lucifer dose love and care for her his pride simply can't handle it how can his daughter the one he raised and spoiled and gave everything to betray him like this , oh the irony. over time tensions grow between them and in the end Charlie leaves her father in hell and is made into an angel and continues to help the people in purgatory.
This is completely unrelated, but I love how people paint Lilith as a "girlboss" or "feminist" despite the evidence of her being Adam's wife is non-existent, but conveniently ignore the other part of her mythology where she's a serial grapist and an infant killer.
Ooof, i would fucking love it if we're introduced to her and she starts out as seemingly heroic, but later on she becomes more evil, it turns out shes basically like Mahito where she believes humans are inferior or morality is relative, something cool like that. I would LOVE to see how people react to that.
Infinity Train > Hazbin Hotel. We honestly could’ve had the other 4 seasons of Infinity Train released instead of Vivziepop’s terrible and asinine writing. #finishInfinityTrain
Charlie had a lot of potential but it seems to have been blown off... like every female character in the show (wtf is going on). Her mum is trying to push her to perfection but i dont see her struggling that much with it. Her dad has been absent and she let it go so quickly. She gets pushed around a lot but somehow seems to be the master of her own emotions. You can make interesting naive characters so im not sure how this happened
My main problem with Charlie is how naive she is like how she said you're wrong sinners make mistakes sure that's like saying Hitler did not commit mass genocide on countless of innocent people or that serial killers do not mean kill people they are just confused 😕like bruh.
Tbf I'm fairly certain the Story of hell in the intro was actually just propaganda cause if you look carefully the book has the name "L. Morningstar" so either Lucifer or Lilith could've fabricated the story to make themselves look good or at the very least exaggerated some parts.
My beef with Hazbin Hotel is that it takes religious script and make it a joke. How more disrespectful can you get? And she clearly does not know the 'lore' that she build this world on. Hell is forever? No. People are there to be punished and purified of sin. And once they are punished for their wrong doing, they will go to Heaven. But the punishment is obviously severe and since the soul cannot be sick, there are no mental illness to fall back on. The dead are fully aware why they are in Hell. Religious annoyances aside, I do enjoy good writing of hell and heaven. But modern writer are too stuck on heaven being secretly evil just because some monsters wear the cloth and claimed to represent God. Viv should really put those type of self righteous people in the show to show just how corrupt Pride can be. After all, the background IS the Pride Ring. But I don't see people whose greatest Sin is Pride there. I see people who made stupid decisions in life and paying for it in hell. I see people who had to make the hard call in life and STILL paying it in hell. If you want to write religion, at least make the Sinner truly sinful. Instead we have a mother who had to kill to keep her children safe. That is not sinful. At least not bad enough for her to be in Hell long enough to be the Overlord. There is no balance here. Like you have to be REALLY good to be in Heaven when we all know that even the best people did things they regret. But they pay it in life instead of in death. And Heavenly characters are written like mindless sheep that only know how to follow and not question. Sure, Angels are made that way but even they sometimes wonder why God do things in a certain way but they have faith that it is for a reason beyond their understanding. Viv seems stuck on making anything heavenly as controlling and cold and corrupt. Especially with her representation of Adam. Why Adam? Why can't it be Cain? The obsession to flip the script is just plain disgusting. Why? Because this show is not for kids but kids will see cartoon characters and catchy songs and will latch onto that. The damages such story can have on the ignorant audience can be long reaching but no one is questioning that. It is insidious is what it is.
Ignoring star, many other characters were imperfect and not marry-sue like. Also Adam from hazbin hotel i wouldn't call a "villain", as he was more of just a blood thirsty jerk somewhat? Got cheated on by BOTH wives in this universe (irl lore just one, because he didn't want to be dominated in the bedroom activities, but the other one (eve) did betray him so...), lived good in life, so of course he should go to heaven. I don't agree with the portrayal of him being a jerk, plus if anyone can just go to heaven regardless of what sin the comment, then what's the point of life or living "virtuously" when it is basically meaningless?
Oh, interesting! Do you know if that was supposed to represent something, like she was being controlled by someone else? Or just a random design choice?
@@jazzandghost , I’m not sure, I would guess design choice though. I never read anything about that Charlie was controlled but your question makes sense.
@@OneClassicalLass , Exactly, Charlie doesn’t look much like a doll, period. As far as goat, I don’t think that’s true, but Viv did mention goat hooves once, I personally thought that idea made no sense.
![Hazbin Hotel was Garbage, Here's Why [Part 1]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/9qI7BU_9iTw/mqdefault.jpg)
![Hazbin Hotel was Garbage, Here's Why [Part 1]](/img/tr.png)
Four things that leave a bad taste in my mouth:
1. I cannot get past the fact that Charlie took CRAYON drawings to a diplomatic meeting that had the potential to decide the fate of countless people. It would have been funny if it was supposed to make her look like the joke she is, but it seems much more likely that it was meant to make her seem innocent and charming. It doesn’t, it makes her look incompetent.
2. Alastor is pathetic and sad to watch. He had a great vibe in the pilot. He was chaotic, in control, and mysterious. In the actual show, he is consistently shown to be insecure, desperate to establish dominance, and trying way too hard when it comes to his “creepy” persona. It’s cringy. Vivizie did mention it was hardest to write Alastor and it really shows.
3. I will never get over the cannibals. In a dark comedy, yeah, go ahead and recruit cannibals. That would be hilarious. But Charlie wants the moral high ground. Cannibalism is not the way to go for that.
4. I cannot believe yet more people have watched these public videos and subscribed to this public channel that is only for me. How dare you.
I was never expecting to like the show, but it still interested me especially since I’ve known about Vivzie for a long time and liked some of her past projects. Nothing could have prepared me for how confused and poorly structured it turned out to be.
On a final note, to all those who have subscribed, I hope you know what you’ve gotten into by joining this crew. Jazz may hold the title “captain”, but *I* control the systems of this ship, and you have started this voyage by making me very unhappy. It was bad enough that Jazz has been trying to pay me in tokens for a restaurant chain that doesn’t even exist in our branch of the universe (I don’t know how she got them), but now I have to deal with this as well. There is only so much disrespect I will take. Keep that in mind. >:(
@@ghostandjazz oh don't worry, I'm here to stay, Jazz has an awesome personality and her videos are entertaining!!
As for your critiques, I totally agree there!
@@ghostandjazz to add to your first point, don't forget that Charlie is 200 years old according to a writer's interview
@@guerreiroazul3230 No way and she's using crayons during a meeting??? 🤣🤣🤣
@@OneClassicalLass i decided to look into it, that information was given by Faustisse, who is one of the main writers, during a live stream called "💖 HAZBIN HOTEL FASHION STREAM for the COMICS!! 💖" That has been archived.
This is so unbelievably pathetic, but it adds as to why Charlie doesn't work. Examples of "innocent to the point of cuteness" type characters are Luz from Own House and Mabel from Gravity falls, however they both have a distinct feature that Charlie doesn't, they are children. If a child does something like using crayon drawings in a pitch meeting then its cute, if an adult uses crayon drawings in a pitch meeting then its cringe.
@@guerreiroazul3230 I wouldn't say cringe but its vary childish for someone to do during a meeting.
16:37
As a former "adult movie" actor, the way they portray people like poor victims is a bit degrading I never was a victim, but of my own poor choices. I'm old now, and it's been 30 years that I'm not in that lifestyle anymore. And I'm grateful for this. It's not what people imagine, not fun at all. It gives young people a bad idea of what it really is.
@@SurnaturalM Glad you got out of that, I'm young and I've heard that the adult film industry is a nightmare, I don't know how more youth like me think it's 'fun' and all that crap, God bless you!
I'm glad people like you aren't afraid of opening up about being an ex adult actor to call out bullshit when needed.
That's really the core problem with Angel Dust as a character, the writing is so...immature. he's a porn star and a stripper and a prostitute and a slut and also a victim of SA...oh and of course don't forget a user of hard drugs because all those things are basically the same. That isn't to say of course someone can't be a few of those things at once but the show treats it like it all goes hand in hand with each other like a child trying way too hard to be edgy
There is one plot twist they could do that would impress me:
Heaven isn’t heaven, it’s purgatory, and it’s full of people who have given up on self betterment. Nobody knows how to get to actual heaven because they’re all resting on their laurels and looking down on hell because “at least they aren’t there” the twist is revealed when sir pentious, having already seen the benefits of improving his behavior, becomes the first person to go from purgatory to heaven because he’s the only resident who works towards self betterment for its own sake.
That would be amazing! and 110% way above what Vivian medrano is capable of writing lol
I wouldn't want to beat a dead horse but talking about horses, My Little Pony Friendship is Magic had a better "house is destroyed" scene than Hazbin Hotel.
And like, if this KIDS SHOW has more things to say about punishment, forgiveness and harmony than this ""adult"" show then STOP WRITING.
Season 4 Episode Twilight's Kingdom Part 1.
The villain, Tirek destroys Twilight's house and she barely saves her assistant/little brother and pet.
And that is for sure impactful for her. That was her place in the town and she liked it being a library.
The show didn't magically rebuilt it as "nothing happened". After the battle against Tirek a castle spawns out of nowhere but she doesn't fit there, doesn't want to be there wants her old home but that can't be turned back. So her friends use some of the remainings of her old house, to make decorations that make her remember her roots (literal roots because her old house was a tree, you see THIS is clever writing)
@maravreloaded I agree with you totally!!
I would love if they would choose to stop do Hazbin since
I'm also worried they might destroy Al since Al will get story in season 2 and I'm worried
they will make him sympathetic broken anti hero
like no way it wouldn't fit him!
Let him be like he is! Evil psychopath cannibal which manipulates others!
Yes he can have story like being abused by father but still be born as psychopath.
Psychopaths can still be abused by parents
but I don't want him to be forced into sympathic broken anti hero 😥
Tf you watch my little pony 😂
@@Rvb_25, watching my little pony is a lot less embarrassing than watching hazbin tbh
@@Rvb_25 the difference is mlp is actually good
Holy crap I remember that episode! I haven’t seen the show since I was 10 or 11.
Mlp has better writing than I thought, I need to rewatch it
I only disagree with Star being an inspiring protagonist. She genocided every single being in the universe who's made up of magic. Star's done a crime worse than the majority of the Hazbin characters and it's painted as a good, noble thing by the narrative, ugh.
The finale of svtfoe was an absolute mess. As was Star in that last season. But I do blame the writers, rather than Star, for that. That's not the character they set up or wrote her as in the previous seasons.
@@jazzandghost fair enough
@@jazzandghost Why do writers love doing that???
Making a good character at first in the beginning seasons, then I guess having their mind wiped and making the character act and be out of character in the last seasons???
That's so annoying.
@OneClassicalLass Well it's like that unfortunately.
But me if I would be writer I wouldn't be like that I wouldn't change the character for worse.
Wasn't it only The High Commission that were killed?
I have my cannon: The story would make more sense if you the main character was Adam instead of Charlie, and he was trying to redeem the sinners he condemned for eating the apple that Lucifer gave him. And the one committing the genocide was Abel (his son), someone who has a reason to hate sinners (because he was killed by his brother, Cain). And the purpose of the genocide was sending sinners deeper and deeper into the rings of hell, for greater punishments.
Why it looks or feels so good?? XD I definitely agree
Charlie is a horrible main character she is judging selfish hypocrite jerk which thinks only her can "understand" others
Ong this would make a good fan story
@@Pomeranian690yeah it's true
Charlie is a childish incompetent idiotic character she thinks understands people but she doesn't
@ShriahAber I definitely agree!! She actually has narcisstic disorder I can say why but I dont know if yt will let me once I explained that to someone it was allowed but when I sent to someone else it was deleted ughh yt has issues
@@ShriahAber So, Disney?
Remember when people thought the Angels where actually going to be cool and mysterious characters whose goals where not clear?
Hehe... yeah
I wish that's the show we got!
@@tomassmith1519 mystery is very intriguing, I heard from the grapevine that the angels being mysterious was actually more hinted at in the RUclips pilot?
I wouldn't know, I haven't seen the pilot.
@@OneClassicalLass it was. And it actually seemed like it was gona be that way and actually good
@@tomassmith1519 Huh... Interesting.
It was clear from the beginning before the show started that they were evil
You wanna see something funny?
Let Charlie be in the Hotel alone with the most evil, disgusting, heartless, irredeemable monsters in fiction history, like Frieza, Jack Horner, Kid Buu, Doomsday, Freddy Krueger, Carnage/Cletus Kassidy, Mahito and Dio. See how long it takes for her to snap and pull a Puss in Boots Jiminy Cricket on them. We'll see if EVERYONE is deserving of a second chance after that.
Put her with judge holden and she will really snap
@@Stratoblast That would be a great idea.... This doesn't just go for fictional characters too...
Could Charlie believe that Hitler could be redeemed? Stalin? Ted Bundy? Jeffery Dalmer?
How far is she willing to take this? I need to know this.
@@OneClassicalLass She would fully believe it so long as they pretended to believe in her.
Considering it’s implied guys like those are the norm in hell, she wouldn’t snap, or even budge slightly since she doesn’t know how to connect to any of them. So she’ll just keep assuming they’re just damaged for her to fix and keep giving them infinite chances to do better next time so long as they keep feeding her savior complex.
@@MrCritic77 Who do you think can drive her up a wall? I'm interested to hear you're opinion and laugh with you.
Also, you forgot to say Emily Explicitly called sinners of hell: "innocent people"
Like, really? Innocent people?! XDD
And the worst part is that nobody calls her out on it
@@guerreiroazul3230"there's a CANNIBAL TOWN, there are soo many cannibals that they build up a town for them. If the camera turned left, it's propably right next to pedo village and hitler villa"
@@elmascapo6588 but they just an innocent babies 😥😥. they soooo sad in hell don't you see? they even stop fuck children on Tuesdays and burn jews on Saturdays, thats how they upset🤧🤧
Like I can understand if she meant that there are "some" innocent people but that was conveyed awfully
she didn't mean they are all literally innocent but not all of them deserve to be purged like that.
As a Christian myself I knew I had to turn off my brain while watching Hazbin. But man does Heaven and the Angels being cast as the incompetent bad guys grind my gears.
Apparently the Angels created heaven but they don’t know how people get into heaven!?? And for thousands of years they never seek to find out!?!? Almost as if they only created that plot point so Charlie could have the high ground and call out the ‘corrupt’ system of Heaven.
And Charlie acting like the souls in hell are ‘poor uwu babies’ when she sees multiple horrible people doing multiple horrible things daily. It’s so aggravating how naive she is. It’s what makes Charlie my least favorite character.
As a Christian, I absolutely loathe Charlie Morningstar for being a spineless brat. No grown adult should behave like her, especially WOMEN. Women in my family were NOT spineless brats.
@@peachybunny1875 There’s not a lot of people saying this, but there is a headcanon that Charlie as autistic it’s not Canon, but it’s nice that autistic people can relate to a character like that and for you to say that a possibly neurodivergent character is a “spineless brat” and “no grown adult should behave like her, especially women” is kind of gross especially since there’s a lot of people who are undiagnosed with autism, especially women.
@@sailorstar3148 Charlie doesn't have autism it's not cannon bro not
to mention nothing from autism fits her just one thing but that's all.
What she said is true XD stop justify Charlie oh God
@@Pomeranian690 That’s why I said it was a headcanon stupid can you read? You’re acting just like those Mabel haters oh god.
@@Pomeranian690 That’s why I said head canon stupid Lord you’re acting like the Mabel haters on God.
The way this show handles the morality of heaven and hell is embarrasing
Why should anyone aspire to go to heaven where all the "good people" are, if the obviously villainous Adam is allowed for eons?
And why should we get outta hell if there's actual chances of someone living a happy and fullfiling life? like the leader of the cannibals or the Vs?
Just another reason Charlie's plan makes no sense!
@@benjaminjara7312 what did Adam do wrong really? He killed murderers and rapists?
@@guerreiroazul3230
Agreed. You know what would've helped this story? Nuance... If Vivzie added nuance and allowed the 'villains' to be correct, that would've helped this story!
Because Plot wise- what Adam did wrong was disagree with Charlie.... But that's about it. He was a strawman and in a sense, so was Sera.
His personality sucks sure, but it's not like he killed innocents, and given that Hell has the ability to grow to the point where they could overtake heaven, Adam killing some of the denizens of Hell is understandable! I wouldn't want cannibals, murderers etc to overrun my land either! But from what I've heard, Vivzie didn't want the villains to have a good point. She wanted them to be wrong, no matter how stupid it would seem in the final product. When Charlie was questioning the angels on how they had no idea what gets people redeemed and accepted into heaven, I'm thinking:
"Would it have been so hard to add nuance and make the "bad guys" correct here? Have Sera or Adam actually know what it takes to get into heaven, and proceed to kill Charlie's defense for Angel Dust."
Vivzie didn't even allow Sera to argue her points, when Charlie and Emily were singing that stupid song, she wasn't able to get a good point across, because that would require NUANCE and would immediately kill Charlie's argument.
Would it have been to much to give the antagonists the upper hand and moral high ground here?
Would it have killed Vivzie to allow Sera to give Charlie AND Emily (because she doesn't know any better.) a stern rebuke with good points? Because there are two sides to one coin!
(I personally love it when the hero tries to argue with the villain and the villain claps back with good points- Example: No straight roads! When May and Zuke confronted Tatiana, they tried to kill her points, but she killed theirs instead showing them how they were doing the EXACT SAME THING she was doing, and it was glorious to watch her be proven right! Why? Because that causes the hero to look into their own actions.)
If Sera knew what got beings in heaven and had given Charlie a verbal smackdown on HER lack of knowledge, that would've been interesting! Nuance would've killed that entire scene with Charlie in heaven because if Sera was RIGHT and KNEW what got beings in heaven, and told Charlie that Angel Dust's actions weren't good enough- that would be interesting!!!
But that would require the 'villains' (I don't see Sera as a villain honestly.) to be correct! That would require Nuance! And I don't think Vivzie wants to do that...
The 'Villains' of Hazbin Hotel fail for similar reasons the villain of Wish fails....
Lack of Nuance. We don't really get to understand their side.
And the underhanded sly tactic of never showing why the 'villain' is right.
In Wish, we never saw a bad wish that would prove Magnifico's argument correct, in Hazbin Hotel, Vivzie straight up doesn't tell us what gets a soul into heaven as that would prove Sera's and Adam's points... But that would make the look understandable, and we can't have that.
But what do you think?
@@OneClassicalLass I agree with everything that you said, especially the Sara part. Even if she doesn't know exactly what gets someone she should still have a pretty good idea of it because she has been in heaven for thousands of years.
To me it's because of a lack of knowledge on the subjects at hand and a lack of desire to research more into it, vivzie's idea of "redemption" is just promising to be good, but she doesn't realize that to be redeemed you need to pay for something that you did, because you are redeeming yourself of an specific action.
Take Sir Pentious for example, he has been redeemed, but why? And of what? The show never tells us, because to Vivzie it doesn't matter.
But that's not fair to the people who got wronged by Sir Pentious when he was alive to see him going to heaven despite everything he's done to them, which is the crux of what Vivzie doesn't understand: mercy to the guilty can be cruelty to the victim. Take Angel Dust for example, he was a mob boss in his life, imagine how bad it would feel to the old lady that got drowned by Angel because she didn't pay the "protection" fee to see him in heaven with her just because he decided to stop abusing substances or whatever, it would feel awful.
But nobody makes those arguments because Vivzie, and the rest of the staff, think that redemption = being a good person. And that's it, there isn't any nuance because the writers don't think there is nuance to it.
@@guerreiroazul3230
Vivzie doesn't want a good villain, she wants strawmen who are evil because evil.
And it's kind of annoying... 🙄
As a Christian myself the concept of her show I really like. Dammed people seeking redemption and exporting the themes of what that really means and if it can be done. But them making heaven the bad guys is where it lost me because what’s the point in getting out of hell if the people upstairs are just as bad. Also I don’t get the point of the overlords they have wealth and power and seem happy in their role where’s the punishment in that?
True. If evil people like Val can continue to abuse and harm people in the afterlife as well as live comfortably, how is that hell for them?
Same. I also didn’t like how gay it became.
If you want to see this concept done right, read "The Great Divorce" by C.S. Lewis. Also, "The Screwtape Letters" is a better exploration into how demons work than either of Viziepop's stuff. Yes, any neat idea she had was already done better by a theologian whose been dead for 70 years.
Heaven in the show isnt bad, there just trying to protect there people and rightfully dont want sinners there
Same
Hazbin hotel should’ve been about rehab into a functional society. I view heaven like the wealthy town with good hospitals while hell is the crackhead town. Charlie was so insulting to Angel. You have a dr-g addict asking for help and u give trust fall exercise.
And on top of that she gave cherri money and told her to take Angel, the addict, to the club! How irresponsible!
Man that's beyond irresponsible!
Being late to school because you didn't get up on time is irresponsible....
What Charlie did was incredibly STUPID!
@@OneClassicalLass I agree and it's so worse! How insane protectors of Charlie cannot see that??
She doesn't wanna help others cause of joy or something like that
She wanna help others cause she needs to or has to in order she would feel better about herself
that's why started the hotel but the show shows like Charlie started the hotel cause
cannot handle to see demons being killed ahem but it doesn't matter cause in the show
it's even said that Charlie tries to work through her daddy issues by fixing people.
So nope she wanna only feel better about herself it's not cause of altruist intentions
Charlie is judging selfish hypocrite character.
Charlie also never ever listened to Vaggie only twice but that's all she is bad girlfriend to Vaggie and bad supporter
Vaggie has only Charlie and had a past she wasn't proud of and was worried about losing her
but instead of understanding Vaggie Charlie talked about herself to Alastor like it's her being betrayed by her girlfriend!
She even didn't give at least Vaggie space to let her explain it! Yes if she would be only hurted alright but how acted was totally out of her character
She even treated Vaggie as some kind of monster like she would be worse than all sinners Charlie was so cold at Vaggie
When said coldly about angelic weapons: If you would know that would you tell me? She acted like Vaggie would be her enemy and a monster
Yes they made it then but only cause of Rosie help and it doesn't change a fact how acted with Vaggie
She never ever protected Vaggie when others disrespected Vaggie only once she tried to protect at the end but that's all
she forces Vaggie in doing something she doesn't wanna do and if Vaggie does it it's only cause of Charlie but we can clearly see Vaggie sounded felt like she would be forced
It most of the time seems like Charlie takes an advantage of Vaggie to do something what Charlie wanna
Vaggie deserves better in my opinion
Charlie is worst person character the facts I said I'll not repeat it it's already in answers In why Chaggie is toxic
She made feel Angel dust like he wouldn't matter when was proud of Sir Pentious but seriously!?
Angel dust stayed for free room yes but he wanna redeem himself he just hides it or something like that but
Sir Pentious didn't wanna redemption at the first place before he wanted to betray them only!
Not to mention she made Angel dust play characters game and was shown he feels uncomfortable by it but Charlie just thinks she knows the best.
And worse is that when Angel went after characters game up the stairs saddly Charlie
saw she SAW ANGEL HOW WAS SAD!! And Charlie just in her mind: wow sad but as long as Sir Pentious wanna redeem himself I don't care.
She didn't understand and respect Angels discomfort when Charlie came to his job cause of idiotic hotel! She was arrogant
and even if ok she stayed but she wasn't quiet and was stupid enough to talk loudly to Travis about Hazbin
Yes she said sorry but only cause how Angel dust screamed to Charlie it's with kids too when you scream at them and they cry and say sorry but don't know why but say sorry cause are screamed on
And I know I'll repeat it again I'm sorry XD but she is toxic character
she has trouble emotionally understanding the motivations and problems of other characters.
- Self-reflection is missing, she only perceives her own one-sided view.
- Empathy is rather superficial, she does not understand deeper human emotions.
- Social interactions are difficult for her, she can't take a regard .
- The world is divided into black and white, there is no complexity.
even though she appears in the show as if she feels empathy like the pain of others but it's more superficial and it looks like she's focused on herself on her goal to change the demons end the extermination etc. Or about how others feel, for example sometimes Angel dust or sometimes mostly Vaggie and the other characters.
Charlie is present with a selfish desire to pursue her dream at any cost without truly understanding the needs of others.
Charlie is also selfish
It was selfish of her how in the song Ready for this cannibals they sang about killing and how they will eat angels and Charlie just with a judgmental expression:
ehh Well that's a little violent can we tone it down?
Like what? Yes Charlie is a princess but that doesn't mean she can control their thinking as she wants.
She was so judging than understanding.
they like to be what they want and Charlie sounds so stupid she sounded like she didn't know they were cannibals.
- The demons only sang about their natural nature as cannibals, which is their everyday reality.
- But Charlie wanted to dictate to them how to limit their speech according to her taste.
- At the same time, she clearly did not understand that for them, being a cannibal is their identity, which they are proud of.
- Her rebuke seemed arrogant and she didn't understand their situation
she is selfish some said she gives chances like she maybe gives a second chances but still make others feel not important did others how Angel felt?! Or Vaggie or Lucifer!?
She doesn't listen what others want or their needs they have some they just wanna be the way they are
- The fact that Charlie gives a second chance does not include her further actions and behavior and does not excuse her for the way she behaves.
- As I said, she still does not listen to the needs of others and makes them less important.
- She judges their true nature without understanding their situation, like as I said I'm Cannibal Town when Charlie started a war because Adam wanted to attack and the cannibals sang about how they would eat and kill angels. They were just happy and happy to be the way they are, but Charlie judged them:
Ehh that's a little violent can we tone it down? Ughh they are little murder right now. It sounded like she didn't even know they were cannibals like hello Charlie didn't she realize clearly that cannibals
would be murderous like this? (sorry but that was judgmental and toxic and selfish of her) she just wanted to direct them to suit her taste even though she is the princess she cannot control their behaviors or minds.
-Moreover, some said that Charlie is giving a second chance, but she didn't give a chance to Adam before Nifty stabbed him and why didn't she give Lucifer a chance from the beginning? She called him for help just because she needed something and she didn't even want to call him because she thought he didn't want to see her while he was struggling with his depression.
And then she judged him and said nonsense that: Why is Alastor here for me when my own father is not?) Like this was toxic selfish judgmental from her and she didn't give him a chance from the beginning.
Charlie's words about Alastor in contrast to her father Lucifer were unempathetic and over the top.
Even if she didn't know his true motives, she had no right to judge and compare him like that.
- Lucifer wanted to protect her from danger, even if Charlie didn't know it.
- He was struggling with his own problems and depression and it might have been too psychologically taxing to help her.
- Alastor is a manipulator, his help was with a selfish intention, which she didn't notice, but she still knows Alastor's personality a little
- She didn't take into account her father's emotional state and problems, she only focused on her own goals. (only then did she gave a chance to him, but she still judged him and didn't give him a chance at the beggining).
Her words were inappropriate and showed her lack of empathy towards her own family. It was really over the line and out of line.
Not to mention Charlie admitted by herself that she cannot call him mainly cause Lucifer let the extermination happen.
She is so judging and selfish
she almost never apologized only some times but that's all.
And she is really hypocrite
Alastor at the episodes 8 when was war between demons and angels exorcists and he protected hotel and main cast Adam hurted Al and Al disappeared but others didn't know it and thought he died
Charlie didn't cry or anything she was like in the mind: Wow sad
But when Sir Pentious protected them and died for them Charlie cried as a baby!! And even made portrait of him!
But what about Alastor?!!
Even if Alastor didn't protect them genuinely Charlie doesn't know it lol.
Some people say she is really so empathic HA! She even didn't cry about Alastor
Charlie and empathic?? It's rather superficial empathic!
Charlie is hypocrite toxic judging and selfish.
@@jazzandghost I agree and it's so worse! How insane protectors of Charlie cannot see that??
She doesn't wanna help others cause of joy or something like that
She wanna help others cause she needs to or has to in order she would feel better about herself
that's why started the hotel but the show shows like Charlie started the hotel cause
cannot handle to see demons being killed ahem but it doesn't matter cause in the show
it's even said that Charlie tries to work through her daddy issues by fixing people.
So nope she wanna only feel better about herself it's not cause of altruist intentions
Charlie is judging selfish hypocrite character.
Charlie also never ever listened to Vaggie only twice but that's all she is bad girlfriend to Vaggie and bad supporter
Vaggie has only Charlie and had a past she wasn't proud of and was worried about losing her
but instead of understanding Vaggie Charlie talked about herself to Alastor like it's her being betrayed by her girlfriend!
She even didn't give at least Vaggie space to let her explain it! Yes if she would be only hurted alright but how acted was totally out of her character
She even treated Vaggie as some kind of monster like she would be worse than all sinners Charlie was so cold at Vaggie
When said coldly about angelic weapons: If you would know that would you tell me? She acted like Vaggie would be her enemy and a monster
Yes they made it then but only cause of Rosie help and it doesn't change a fact how acted with Vaggie
She never ever protected Vaggie when others disrespected Vaggie only once she tried to protect at the end but that's all
she forces Vaggie in doing something she doesn't wanna do and if Vaggie does it it's only cause of Charlie but we can clearly see Vaggie sounded felt like she would be forced
It most of the time seems like Charlie takes an advantage of Vaggie to do something what Charlie wanna
Vaggie deserves better in my opinion
Charlie is worst person character the facts I said I'll not repeat it it's already in answers In why Chaggie is toxic
She made feel Angel dust like he wouldn't matter when was proud of Sir Pentious but seriously!?
Angel dust stayed for free room yes but he wanna redeem himself he just hides it or something like that but
Sir Pentious didn't wanna redemption at the first place before he wanted to betray them only!
Not to mention she made Angel dust play characters game and was shown he feels uncomfortable by it but Charlie just thinks she knows the best.
And worse is that when Angel went after characters game up the stairs saddly Charlie
saw she SAW ANGEL HOW WAS SAD!! And Charlie just in her mind: wow sad but as long as Sir Pentious wanna redeem himself I don't care.
She didn't understand and respect Angels discomfort when Charlie came to his job cause of idiotic hotel! She was arrogant
and even if ok she stayed but she wasn't quiet and was stupid enough to talk loudly to Travis about Hazbin
Yes she said sorry but only cause how Angel dust screamed to Charlie it's with kids too when you scream at them and they cry and say sorry but don't know why but say sorry cause are screamed on
And I know I'll repeat it again I'm sorry XD but she is toxic character
she has trouble emotionally understanding the motivations and problems of other characters.
- Self-reflection is missing, she only perceives her own one-sided view.
- Empathy is rather superficial, she does not understand deeper human emotions.
- Social interactions are difficult for her, she can't take a regard .
- The world is divided into black and white, there is no complexity.
even though she appears in the show as if she feels empathy like the pain of others but it's more superficial and it looks like she's focused on herself on her goal to change the demons end the extermination etc. Or about how others feel, for example sometimes Angel dust or sometimes mostly Vaggie and the other characters.
Charlie is present with a selfish desire to pursue her dream at any cost without truly understanding the needs of others.
Charlie is also selfish
It was selfish of her how in the song Ready for this cannibals they sang about killing and how they will eat angels and Charlie just with a judgmental expression:
ehh Well that's a little violent can we tone it down?
Like what? Yes Charlie is a princess but that doesn't mean she can control their thinking as she wants.
She was so judging than understanding.
they like to be what they want and Charlie sounds so stupid she sounded like she didn't know they were cannibals.
- The demons only sang about their natural nature as cannibals, which is their everyday reality.
- But Charlie wanted to dictate to them how to limit their speech according to her taste.
- At the same time, she clearly did not understand that for them, being a cannibal is their identity, which they are proud of.
- Her rebuke seemed arrogant and she didn't understand their situation
she is selfish some said she gives chances like she maybe gives a second chances but still make others feel not important did others how Angel felt?! Or Vaggie or Lucifer!?
She doesn't listen what others want or their needs they have some they just wanna be the way they are
- The fact that Charlie gives a second chance does not include her further actions and behavior and does not excuse her for the way she behaves.
- As I said, she still does not listen to the needs of others and makes them less important.
- She judges their true nature without understanding their situation, like as I said I'm Cannibal Town when Charlie started a war because Adam wanted to attack and the cannibals sang about how they would eat and kill angels. They were just happy and happy to be the way they are, but Charlie judged them:
Ehh that's a little violent can we tone it down? Ughh they are little murder right now. It sounded like she didn't even know they were cannibals like hello Charlie didn't she realize clearly that cannibals
would be murderous like this? (sorry but that was judgmental and toxic and selfish of her) she just wanted to direct them to suit her taste even though she is the princess she cannot control their behaviors or minds.
-Moreover, some said that Charlie is giving a second chance, but she didn't give a chance to Adam before Nifty stabbed him and why didn't she give Lucifer a chance from the beginning? She called him for help just because she needed something and she didn't even want to call him because she thought he didn't want to see her while he was struggling with his depression.
And then she judged him and said nonsense that: Why is Alastor here for me when my own father is not?) Like this was toxic selfish judgmental from her and she didn't give him a chance from the beginning.
Charlie's words about Alastor in contrast to her father Lucifer were unempathetic and over the top.
Even if she didn't know his true motives, she had no right to judge and compare him like that.
- Lucifer wanted to protect her from danger, even if Charlie didn't know it.
- He was struggling with his own problems and depression and it might have been too psychologically taxing to help her.
- Alastor is a manipulator, his help was with a selfish intention, which she didn't notice, but she still knows Alastor's personality a little
- She didn't take into account her father's emotional state and problems, she only focused on her own goals. (only then did she gave a chance to him, but she still judged him and didn't give him a chance at the beggining).
Her words were inappropriate and showed her lack of empathy towards her own family. It was really over the line and out of line.
Not to mention Charlie admitted by herself that she cannot call him mainly cause Lucifer let the extermination happen.
She is so judging and selfish
she almost never apologized only some times but that's all.
And she is really hypocrite
Alastor at the episodes 8 when was war between demons and angels exorcists and he protected hotel and main cast Adam hurted Al and Al disappeared but others didn't know it and thought he died
Charlie didn't cry or anything she was like in the mind: Wow sad
But when Sir Pentious protected them and died for them Charlie cried as a baby!! And even made portrait of him!
But what about Alastor?!!
Even if Alastor didn't protect them genuinely Charlie doesn't know it lol.
Some people say she is really so empathic HA! She even didn't cry about Alastor
Charlie and empathic?? It's rather superficial empathic!
Charlie is hypocrite toxic judging and selfish.
@@rachelgardnerorray
Loved reading your rants 😄!
Anyway, Facts, I mean main characters can make mistakes.... But they have to be called out AND endure the consequences of their actions (I say 'AND' because Calling them out isn't really a consequence.).... That's what makes a good character.... Good.
Naruto wasn't perfect, his actions affected other people... And in the beginning he wasn't the most likable child, but you understood why he acted as such, but he still got consequences.
I've heard some critics blame the amount of writers for the story of this show being so bad.... But that sounds like a cop-out excuse to me, a large amount of writers can still produce a good story! They communicate and work together as a team for efficiency, not saying the writers of Hazbin Hotel didn't do that... But- there's a slight possibility given the final product.
I remember pilot Charlie. She had so many layers
It often felt she was fighting against herself to be a good person.
Is a shame Vivzie fired the only good writes of the team, after stealling his ideal and not giving him any credit
And it annoys me... so much how the hotel has no reason to actually exist. They could have paced this show well, but Nooooooo
Literally no proof that she did that
And I like how in the pilot it appeared that Lucifer was actually kinda mean.
Every SINGLE character got bodied or uwu'd. Alastor was turned into a Twitter yassqueen, Angel turned into a stereotype of his pilot self, Vaggie was made into an exorcist because of a dumb fan headcannon, and Lucifer should have been made more sinister.
@roxycauldwell544 Some said that Vivzie mind cannot change and said that Vaggie was an exorcist since the pilot that my facts make no sense when I said that the comic of Al doesn't have to be cannon anymore
like wtf what?? Everyone's mind can change 😂😂😂
They completely changed Vaggie from being killed in earth being a prostitute to an exorcist. Everyone especially Charlie would hate this version of themselves. Also, why the hell isnt the show like the pilots fun and fluid animation?
Viziepop is a designer, she is an artist, a song-maker, a conceptualizer, but above all else, she is not a writer.
She just isn't, and she weighs down the show by forcing herself to be it's writer.
@@Saltboi1823 She really could just let the writing be done by pros... Or have them give her tips or guides or... something!!! From hearing the summary, The series feels like they had too many ideas and couldn't save some ideas for later and just used all of them in one season, which is NEVER a good idea (Well, if you know what you're doing, it's a good idea... But it felt like V didn't know how to balance it all.)
@@OneClassicalLass couldn't have said it better myself. I feel like Vizie was afraid she would lose control of the story if she relinquished status as a writer; which is an understandable fear, but she must overcome it or she'll ruin her golden goose for good.
THIS. IS. WHAT. I'M. SAYING!
Like, it's obvious she prefers designing characters than writing her own show.
@@OneClassicalLass , This! Yes, but she wishes were a legit writer, and she has a very fragile ego. She frankly just sucks. Stick to the character designing ONLY, Vivzie. But I know you ain’t gonna listen. And by you I mean Viv.
@@Saltboi1823 , She already is ruined, Hazbin isn’t even hype anymore, people just upload Hazbin content for views. Her other show has been shrinking with the views for quite some time.
Ive said this before to people but hazbin hotel is anti everything and is pro nothing.
Its the idea of wanting to be the hero fighting the ultmite bad guys who have all the power. The problum is the wrighters dont have any values beside rebeling for rebeling sake. so the wrighters have to make the bad guys as evil as humanly possabel. That way our heros have a ression to rebel. Its why charlie is cool with canabels but isnt with having them be killed. Its so they can have there rebelion or underdog heros have a ression to fight the ones in power.
Heres an exampel adem is a straw man in the show right. But what is he a strawman of? Rich people? The church? Christan values? The awser is none hes just evil so our heros are good when they fight and kill him.
Yeah, I think you're right about the writers. Your values will always show through in your writing, even if it's not on purpose. And I think that's what happened here
Side note I might be wrong about the wrighters having no values cuz its also possable they all have diffrent values and they all got mashed togther turning into a unfocus mush.
@@vassago1223
No wonder the story is a mess.
It's pro reformation and anti genocide...how is what you are claiming true?
They do have values but not every ally of Charlie is a good person which is the point. I mean...no even the main characters are evil at times too. Eh no Charlie has issues with cannibals and finds them disgusting.
He isn't a straw man, how is he? If it's none then he isn't a straw man, except killing him doesn't solve everything especially when there are evil people in Hell clearly.
@@Jdudec367 what I mean by the wrighters have no values is that there choices are based not on what things are more importan then other things but rather based on what they feel at that moment.
If adam came to the hotel to be reformed would charlie take him in? I belive no. Why? Cuz he made her feel bad.
Charlie/the show/the wrighhter only belive what they feel in that moment. So when moraly gray question happen they dont have an awser besides "idk".
This is why I belive charlie was not acting out of chartar when she got mad at vagie for lying to her and didnt act this way when sir penchius lyed about wanting to be redemed. She felt hurt by vagie but she didnt give a shit that sir Penchius was puting up camras cuz it didnt make her feel bad.
What confuses me about making the figure of Adam a villain is if we go by biblical canon Adam was in Hell until Christ pulled him out. Adam was just a man who gave up paradise to be with Eve, if anyone represents getting sent to Hell for no "good" reason it would be Adam. Usually Micheal is the go-to heavenly warmonger.
But that would require Vivzie to do actual research and put effort in, and that's too hard
@@guerreiroazul3230 I blame Lilith, she's basically the Medusa of Christian Lore. A minor creature that got turned into a major demon and got a feminist rebrand.
@@wingedyaga2914 but also these 2 women have fanbases that treat Tumblr headcanon as canon...
@@wingedyaga2914 that's a good point, Vivzie could've used that!!
@@guerreiroazul3230 Now now let's be nice....
I mean it's true but you didn't have to SAY it!!
How does Lucifer give her free will by giving Eve the fruit? If he gives her free will through the fruit, then that means she doesn't have the free will to eat the fruit to begin with, so how does she even eat it? Was she force-fed? Doesn't sound like he's giving her much free will in making that decision.
That's what I'm saying!
@@AquaMidget If heaven can just make replacement women when they get rebellious why didn't they make a new one. It sounds like Eve ate the apple alone, she didn't offer it to Adam.
I was wondering that too. In the Bible and old testament as a whole, humans had free will but was free of sin. Humans were the caretakers of the earth to use it to live and care for it. The only rule was to not eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good & evil. The devil as a serpent makes Eve believe that if she eats it, she and Adam will be like God, and that God fears them eating from it. Eve, not knowing the consequences besides that they will die, and not understanding what death is, eats of the fruit. Adam in turn follows his wife, and realizes they’re naked, and now sin, death, and all aspects which humans once did not face are brought upon them.
Humans are born with free will. Adam and Eve chose to eat the fruit, as they were told not to and told the consequences (even if they didn’t exactly know what that meant). If in the Hazbin universe there’s no free will, then there’s no consequences. Honestly the only way to salvage the opening narrative is for Vivzie to make Lucifer a liar about what happened.
It’s one of the interpretations of what Adam and Eve got from the fruit of knowledge. The most traditional interpretation is it granted the ability to tell the difference between good and evil, making humans moral arbiters on the same level as god. A slightly different interpretation is that it gave them free will, and yeah there’s a problem with God punishing people who had the intellectual range of children for taking something yummy that was offered to them and eating it.
@@cathygrandstaff1957the fruit only made them slaves to sin, if anything it's the farthest to free will that it could had been
You know, I feel like they should've kept Lucifer as an openly judgemental, and distant character. (At least how I interpret the way he shows up in "I'm Always Chasing Rainbows.)
It'd give credence to Charlie's daddy issues, explain why she's This desperate for validation/attention from other people, and would give her a mirror to look into about the way she behaves towards other people.
Does she really want to end up like her father? What would getting his attention (in a positive manner) actually do for her?
Not to mention, if Alastor legitimately acted like a trustworthy and present mentor/father figure the whole time, there would be real tension between the two (Lucifer and Alastor) should a Dead Beat Dad like situation arise.
Alastor would also justifiably despise Lucifer for a whole slew of reasons. For being an absent, neglectful, verbally abusive father (Likely akin to the one Alastor had growing up.), for being far too strong to fight/injure/kill, and for attempting to reestablish himself as somebody Charlie can rely on when she needs help. (Which is part of Alastor's long term manipulation, and is also, ever so slightly genuine.)
So, a decent-ish dad-figure who's manipulating Charlie to further his own goals, vs an awful dad who's only here bc Charlie is succeeding at something for once. (You know, instead of the hotel being another one of Charlie's Many failed projects.)
I feel like Lucifer's too nice, and quick to give up in opposing Charlie's dreams in canon. There's zero stakes there.
Good ideas!
I swear, you’re the first person who’s made these critical videos that acknowledged that Lucifer straight up damned all of humanity and still plays the victim over it.
And NOBODY acknowledges it, whether in the show or in the fandom.
Also Charlie’s inconsistent morality, another missed thing I swear people don’t discuss enough. People point out her hypocrisy with Vaggie, but what about Valentino and Adam. How about that old woman she called a bitch. Or when she cut her dad out of her life because he… doesn’t call her sometimes? You’d think this show would be about challenging Charlie’s belief that everyone can be reformed by having them confront her own puritanical thoughts but instead she’s… always right?
And to be clear, I’m not saying Charlie can’t hate Valentino and Adam, it’s completely justified to find them irredeemable people, but it would have been a great moment for Charlie if SHE was forced to confront that feeling of hypocrisy, that maybe the angels are right some people don’t deserve to be redeemed, but rules shouldn’t be so rigid.
Omg I totally agree!! And no you're not alone I thought about it too how Charlie acts selfishly judgmental and acts like hypocrite with others even if she seems nice she isn't.
Poor others I feel bad mainly for Luci and Vaggie they deserve better love and daughter.
And it's worse and she has for sure narcissistic disorder why? I can tell you everything if you wanna but I agree with everything you said!
@@Pomeranian690it’s like, actually fascinating how Viv is really bad at writing kind characters. Charlie is “nice” but she has done nothing to help Angel dust and can’t handle criticism without crying about it (huh. Sounds familiar). Emily is “nice” but is more willing to sympathize with rapists and murderers and not the people heaven is trying to protect. Millie is “nice” but doesn’t react when Moxxie is knocked around or bullied. Stolas is “nice” but the man is an actual sexual predator. Fizzarolli is “nice” but flexes his wealth and straight up murdered some demons with his car in the same episode where he lectures Blitzo about how he has no reason to judge the wealthy. Verosika is “nice” but she’s also a sexual predator!
What is with this writing.
@Birdyboys I totally agree omg! Even me I can write better characters.
And and even Rachel Gardner from angels of death anime which has trauma and problems she is more kind than Charlie.
BTW Millie is quite bad too but she is little better than Charlie cause Charlie almost never protected or listened Vaggie or appreciates her.
Unlike her Millie many times listened appreciated Mooxie and protected him.
Even if some times yes Millie didn't protect Mooxie too but still quite better than Charlie.
But I agree with you with this 💫
If you are more wondering about my facts about Charlie why is judging selfish hypocrite I can tell you 🍀
Emily is selfish judging hypocrite too after all Emily and Charlie have the same personality
He suffers from the same problem Maleficent had In the Live Action Disney remake has. We love the Devil and Maleficent because they are evil. Not because they're "Misunderstood".
@@Birdyboys
Oh my goodness, I agree with you, what IS this writing????? That's too many similarities!
Hmm.... Is Vivzie trying to tell us something?.... 🤔
It's not hard to write a nice person... I'll do it right now!
Groger is a very big burly man, very strong man- But people are scared of him because he is big (muscular) so he's nice so people won't fear him- he bakes for the little children around his neighborhood, he helps his fellow neighbors with errands, he's an all around nice guy....
That wasn't hard at all!!! And he still has room for seasoning!!
But seriously though, that's crazy....
“She questioned the story of Adam, Eve and Lucifer” gonna take a wild assumption and assume Viv didn’t mean the Bible and actually meant Paradise Lost where Lucifer is humanized more (but is still portrayed as pathetic and selfish).
I think she sympathized with Lucifer, hated Adam and viewed Eve as either a self insert or plot device. Because anyone who has read the Bible, including the person who has made this video can immediately say that Lucifer hasn’t done a single good thing and only acts in his own self interests.
Yeah well same could be said of God himself but yeah it’s a bad show
@@randomguy56789considering how God still hasn't killed us all after all the bullshit we had made, we can safely say that the old man ain't really selfish
@@elmascapo6588 He technically DID kill people during the flood of Noah.
Because of all the terrible things they have done.
@@randomguy56789well he did let Lucy did things to someone named Job
Lucifer, Satan, Devil and Snake are all different beings in bible
I don't think a character for being immortal should be mature.
Look at the greek pantheon. They were a bunch of idiots that did whatever they wanted because "hell yeah we're gods".
The problem of Hazbin and the whole "Hellaverse" is how everyone every character is written as an edgy teenager OC. Foul-mouthed depraved and criminal for the sake of it. There's no contrast. No one is good but all are the same kind of bad.
The most different was Alastor not mentioning sexual things or swearing, then they made him swear. Great.
@maravreloaded Swearing is okay almost everyone swear. I mean you know it's bad but in the show it's fine it's adult show after all.
But I'm happy they didn't make him as Valentino I mean Val is into sexual things and sexual abuse others.
For this I'm happy that Alastor is not sexual predator
Totally fair point. Their immaturity stood out because every single character is a, like you said, edgy teenage OC, and there was nothing to differentiate them from each other. Old, yet still immature characters can be really interesting, because they have so much more experience.
@@jazzandghost
An immature character isn't the problem, it's immature WRITTING.
no the problem is you cant use the greeks as a frame of reference due to how the two religions view their figures of myth. The Greeks saw the gods as both representations of man and as wild forces of nature its why every god is wild and impulsive making decisions just because or without any real motivation at all because thats how we see nature sometimes. In the bible and its other texts the two groups are paragons of the alignments the angels are an ultimate force of good and are specifically gods servants and any angel that doesn't meet that is removed via "Falling" meanwhile devils/demons are the ultimate force of evil they are hedonistic tricksters and murderers which means that if someone is an angel they need to match that mood or they shouldnt be an angel and thats actually why your second point stands out as a complaint if this was based in greek myth it would make sense for gods to be petty but in biblical myth Angels arent supposed to be evil they can be detached from humanity but overall but there shouldnt be a point where an angel in a functioning heaven would provoke the question how did they get there. She didnt write angels to be angels she wrote them as villains Charlie might have actually worked better as an angel since that would allow her to have her innate sense of goodness that seems alien for hell and could have brought up interesting elements but Viv wanted to write about a demon girl in a plot that doesnt really work for a demon girl and thats ignoring all the nonsense regarding lucifer
Little late but I need to say my piece. The demon child Vaggie spared wasn't a child. It was a plot device to poorly justify why she fell from Heaven. Even though Adam explicitly stated she had killed 'thousands' of sinners before. So either Vaggie just never killed the children of Hell and nobody noticed, but that raises the question of Adam's assessment of her; she was his number one killing machine or she had a sudden spontaneous change of heart. This series is just flashy eye candy, like Avatar, just throw a bunch of tumblr OC's in front of an edgy backdrop, watch them fight and later realise nothing of significance happened. This show is the epitome of a dancing bear. You're not supposed to care if the bear dances well only that it dances at all.
(WARNING: This is gonna be a pretty long comment.)
Here’s a character I don’t think anyone’s brought up that does what Charlie tried to do about a zillion times better: Leslie Knope from Parks and Recreation.
She and Charlie are actually very similar. They’re both super-positive, happy-go-lucky girls, who have a dream/goal they want to accomplish with a ragtag group of misfits behind them. What makes Leslie the better character? Well, a few things actually:
-She’s not only great at her job as a public service bureaucrat, she LOVES it. It’s her passion. Ever since she was a little kid, she’s wanted to make Pawnee a better place, and she manages to do that in every endeavor she takes. Sure, she makes a few mistakes or runs into a few road bumps along the way, but she always manages to persevere on her own merits and her passion for the work she does.
-While Charlie “attempts” to be everyone’s best friend, Leslie is THE BEST friend. Leslie has so much love to give to the people she cares about, and it only takes one episode to notice that. One of her defining traits is that she’s a master at gift-giving because she knows her friends so well. She sticks up for her friends, inspires them to be better people, and is always planning grand gestures of affection whenever she can. If you’re Leslie Knope’s friend, she will be your biggest and loudest cheerleader.
-Unlike Charlie, Leslie has close and defined relationships with all of the main cast, and what makes that even more apparent is that, while Leslie’s friends love and respect her, they’re not afraid to disagree with her or call her out when she’s wrong about something. While Vaggie exists purely to be Charlie’s yes-woman, Ann is usually the one who keeps Leslie grounded and brings her back to reality. They may be best friends, but that doesn’t mean they have to be on the same page about everything.
-Leslie has flaws, but the show acknowledges them as such and frames Leslie as being in the wrong for acting on them. One of the greatest examples of this is the episode Farmer’s Market. The Pawnee Famrer’s Market gets a new vendor who uses skimpily dressed people to sell his chard, while kids and families are around. Obviously, Leslie wants to do something about this, but because she’s the dangerous combination of being passionate, stubborn, and driven all at the same time, she does NOT handle the situation well at all. She immediately jumps to wanting to kick him out instead of coming up with some kind of compromise, she comes up with a bunch of rules that are clearly targeting the chard vendor in particular, even though he’s not really breaking any real health or code violations, and she even goes as far as to revoke his license without consulting Ben first. While Leslie was right to be concerned that kids and families would see stuff they shouldn’t be seeing, she’s only thinking about herself and what SHE thinks is best. She’s not taking anyone else into consideration, not Ben, not Nolan, the chard vendor in question, not even the other farmers, who say that Nolan is helping their businesses flourish, and as Ben so eloquently put it: When you’re arguing with Leslie Knope, you might as well be arguing with the sun. But unlike the sun, Leslie actually can be reasoned with, and after realizing how her actions and stubbornness have caused the people around her to feel, she realizes her mistake, apologizes to the parties she hurt, and eventually, they do come up with that compromise I mentioned earlier. Meanwhile, from what’s been shown in this video, Charlie never has a moment or episode like this. She’s always right and the people who disagree with her are always wrong.
-Speaking of which, that’s another thing that makes Leslie the better protagonist, how the people who strongly disagree with her are portrayed. Adam is just a one-dimensional jerk who’s only there to give Charlie a villain to fight against and to make her look good by comparison. Ron Swanson, on the other hand, is Leslie’s polar opposite in many ways, but the show doesn’t make him the evil bad guy who’s always there to tear her down, he’s a trusted friend, and source of guidance for Leslie whenever she needs it. Their different personal and political beliefs challenge and strengthen their bond. They learn from each other and make each other better. And if we want to talk about specifically antagonists, just look at Bobby Newport. Bobby essentially fills the same role as Adam, in that he is the person going up against the main character and her big ideas, but what makes him work is the fact that he’s not an irredeemable jerk. Quite the opposite. Bobby Newport was a kid whose dad bought him a political position to make him look good. It’s made pretty clear from the jump that Bobby has no idea what he’s doing or what he’s in for. Which is showcased perfectly with how interacts with Leslie. As Leslie and Bobby spend more time together as opposing candidates for city council, they get to know each other more. Bobby realizes that Leslie is MUCH more suited for the city council than he is, and the two of them even start to form a small friendship. Not to mention, Bobby was created to showcase/satirize the weird world of politics and how people don’t always get to where they are through talent and passion.
I would add more, but I think I’ve covered all of the main things. Leslie Knope is better than Charlie, because she has tons of good qualities to go along with her bad ones, her supporting cast aren’t just yes-man, she’s treated as being in the wrong when she needs to be, and the people who she comes into conflict with aren’t just flat strawmen. Parks and Rec is a really great show, with great overall themes and messages.
I totally agree!! Nto mention also Charlie should give redeeming plan and princess title to someone
else for example even Rachel gardner from angels of death anime
she is so more better than Charlie too
she has trauma and little issues yes but
is kind forgives and is understanding she would know they aren't innocent unlike Charlie which has weird view.
She shouldn't exist since also she has narcisstic disorder and I can say why if you're wondering of course
good analysis btw Xd
I honestly believe that Charlie is the way she is because vivzy thinks this is how good people are. She doesn't understand that genuinely good people are not just virtue signaling and trying to keep their own image up
Oh my god that is so true. A lot of people are like that.
“There’s a lot of feminist and not-straight people in hell, what are you trying to say with that?”
Got em 😂
This was a really well put together video essay! I can’t wait to see what else you make in the future! ❤🙏
Thank you!
@@jessdanae138 "Ladies and Gentlemen.... We got them."
Qué? Dónde están las feministas en el infierno? Literal la autoridad divina del cielo es una mujer. O qué carajos se piensan que Sera es?
to be fair, we don´t see that much of heaven and have no idea about their sexualities, plus anyone can be a bad person so it´s not surprising that there would be minorities in hell at all. but of course that´s assuming they´re bad people at all, since evidently no one has any idea who can get into heaven and hell is also full of people who eg, value consent (including the literal embodiment of lust for some reason), protect their loved ones (Carmilla and her daughters and maybe even Zestiel??), are genuinely good leaders and give good relationship advice (Rosie) and so on. Heck, we even see a literal CHILD in hell who looks like they´re 10 at most... and Vaggie ofc gets expelled for not killing said child
@@jazzandghostwell tbf
Adam does command an army of only women.
So, he's practically the first true feminist
I think Hazbin Hotel could've been better in the hands of a better writer.
I love that everybody forget Vaggie
Who?
Hazbin (and Helluva) is what happens when you fall in love with your characters, you turn it into Dora the explorer, which few adults enjoy. We all see Swiper, know the answers and realise the ending, boring, in other words. You don't have to involve, suffering or gore to speak to an adult audience but you DO need some intelligence behind it and be ready to twist a good person into evil or kill a child/puppy/or whatever is needed to carry the story. This is not easy but absolutely necessary or you'll get a bland story, like Hazbin.
That's a good way to describe it! And why I said it's childish not childlike.
@@jazzandghost Thank you 🤍 and yes, you put it well in your video, it's infantile indeed.
So...what? How do you know the ending will be boring? And you're saying we need to see a godo person become evil or see a child pr puppy be killed for it to be adult? What happened to not needing to involve suffering or gore to speak to an adult audience? So is it necessary or not? Make up your mind. And how can you call the story bland when it's nowhere near finished really?
@@Jdudec367 I see you've missed my point. I shall be more clear. When you "fall in love" or "bond" with the characters you're creating, it makes it a lot harder to write an interesting story because you can't bear the thought of them dying or doing something bad with intent. This makes the characters very flat and your story one-dimensional, like stories for children, they are easy to predict and not engaging.
"We all see Swiper, know the answers, and realise the ending, in other words, boring." I swept the last phrases to make it clearer. As you can see, I don't have an opinion on the ending in itself; the statement refers to the story as a whole.
"[...] you DO need some intelligence behind it and be ready to twist a good person into evil or kill a child/puppy/or whatever is needed to carry the story." You need to do what's necessary to carry the story, killing in itself is irrelevant if the character isn't dear to the reader, death and horror do not equal a good story for adults, it's nothing but faint ambience if you feel nothing for those involved and that's exactly the point.
For example: Stolas (Helluva) started as a powerful badass and entitled jerk with a deep love for his daughter. A very good and interesting start. Further on something changed, he can no longer have flaws so the reason for his cheating is mental abuse for 18 years in an arranged, loveless marriage. He got flipped 180 and is now a powerless victim with no self-esteem and nowhere to turn but Blitz, whom he somehow always loved yet treats other imps as furniture. Nothing in the story changed Stolas or revealed his true self, the *writer* changed and _that_ is bad writing.
This is just a snippet of ONE example, I'm happy to talk about it more but since it's already an essay I'm ending it here. I hope that answered your questions.
@@TheLodjur
So kill your darlings? Got it, not sure how that's relevant, it's only been one season and characters have already died.
1. Ok I see then.
No nothing changed he still has flaws, and I mean...tbf that abuse was implied since episode 2 really....nothing changed with that, even then him cheating is portrayed as still hurting his daughter therefore he still messed up really. Eh no he still has flaws like with how he treats people he cares about like Blitz and Octavia for example, and we only see him treat one imp badly one time...not all of them. Wrong, the writer didn't change they just elaborated on his and Stella's past that isn't bad writing just because it didn't go how you personally wanted it to go.
I mean I got answers but still that isn't bad writing.
I just wanted to say thank you for this channel,as a wannabe storyteller and screenwriter,this helped me (while cringing at the thought of the show)figure out what to do and what not to do when it comes to writing characters and stories
Hey, thanks for the encouragement! I'm always excited to see other storytellers and I hope that goes well for you!
@@jazzandghost You're videos helped me when writing my mythology, and now I have a decent sized story with characters! Thanks for the brain juice 🤣
1:24:11 For Thor, it’s intentionally made that way because his friends are enablers and are just as arrogant as he is. Thor is a spoiled person, never held accountable for his actions, and no one has given him no as an answer. Him being banished was the only time he was actually facing consequences for something he did. The only person who sees Thor in the wrong for acting this way is the antagonist of this story, Loki. He sees Thor as an unworthy heir of the throne and thinks that he can be a much better King than Thor ever will be. Which is the reason why he schemes and betrays Asgard. He did manage to succeed but only for short time; since Thor had gone through a whole character arc and defeated him.
The main problem is that people who are trying to say everyone should be their own arbiter of their own morality and there is no objective truth but Christianity is bad because it's judgemental - still believe in objective and universal truths, use the moral categories of good and bad, and ultimately "their own" ideas are actually Christian ideas that have been part of culture and civilization they've inherited for so long they don't even realise are Christian.
One of these people once told me that they don’t believe in objective morality, but they will say things are right or wrong to them. Therefore, if someone did something evil to their subjective opinion, they will call them out or fight them if necessary.
No Christian took all ready common good and bad beliefs
@@tfordham13 there certainly was philosophy and morality before Christians and parallel to Israelite culture. But it really didn't look much like our modern ideas.
@@Cationna it kinda does
@@tfordham13You dont know your history well enough if you think that. Not Christian history mind you, world history.
From analyzing Hazbin and seeing all the different takes of critics + fans alike, I've come to discover that many joke about the show's writing flaws chalking up to being "MLP in hell" or [insert kids cartoon here].
But the easiest way to describe this show's writing flaws are the "MLP" joke. It is a children's show geared towards adults, but appears more as something like MLP.
MLP, but without any themes, goals, direction, character arcs, and without establishing any of the world's rules/logic. A... pointless, colorful fun fest is what you get when you take that away from MLP.
I don't exactly get *why* an "adult" tv show is presented so childishly, but can't help but demand to be taken seriously. The fans might be able to, but I certainly can't. Though it has been helpful in learning what not to do when it comes to writing professionally! Lmao!
@@SodaFrizz666
🤣🤣🤣
"MLP in Hell" is crazy
Good point! It does feel like a kids show... Take out the drugs, s*x, and swearing... That's kind of what you're left with....
An adult show written by someone who's only ever watched children media, basically
They're way too obvious and open with this being an adult show. Like people are so quick to say "THiS iS nOT FoR KiDs!!" But the show's humor is, what some critics would say, "edgy kids finding out what slurs are". Like old cartoons literally had adult jokes in them that were easy to miss and clever at times, if not shocking to notice.
"MLP in hell"
I like that.
@@T_E_G
The "This is not for kids" excuse is a cop out.
I've seen kids shows that portrayed a lot more maturity.... Shoot even SpongeBob has clever adult jokes that I didn't catch until I was older!!!
Hazbin and Helluva Boss both have Viv in control and her awful writing tarnished Hazbin Hotel, she said she valued good faith criticism but she wrote early episodes of Hazbin, Adam is how he is, the terrible logic and so on because of her and skip to Full Moon and it still is awful, she then says Stolas is in wrong too but we get Apology Tour and no Merch that Blitz has that truly shows they're equally in wrong & Blitz gets turned into a villainous individual that "proves" Stolas is better, you can say that Viv didnt write all of it but that doesnt change the fact she greenlit this stuff, she willingly chose to keep everything as is and there's more than just what I mentioned that shows Viv is the problem, the more she gets to stay, write and have control, the more this stuff is going to stay.
@@artistanthony1007 Maybe she needs writing classes or actual writing professionals to guide her way??
Seems like she's trying to wing it and can't refuse any ideas in my eyes... Just listening to the summary made me feel like the writers all had different ideas for the series and Vivzie couldn't dwindle these ideas down and kept all of them...
That's the vibe I'm getting for sure!
As a Christian myself I was always taught that everyone has an opportunity to get right with god when they are still on earth but they decide to keep going into sin. It feels weird that Charlie is trying to redeem these sinners that have no redeeming qualities
@@IronBat-505 Yes, Hazbin Hotel never bothers to explain how redeeming a already judged sinner is unfair to the people who RIGHTFULLY turned from sin in life and earned their way into heaven fairly.
Heaven and Hell aren't pitstops, they're final destinations, your decisions in life determine how you get to these places in death, but if you can just get plucked out of hell for making better decisions (?) and just go to heaven anyway, why even bother at that point? No one would have any reason to live a good honorable right with God (or the divine judgement as they call it in HH, I'm calling that God I don't care.)
It would've been cool if one of the "bad guys" Adam or Sera even made that point... Alas, potential for an intriguing and mature story.... Wasted.
This story is in dire need of a rewrite... Seriously.
Facts. I get that vivzipop doesn’t actually care about Christianity but it’s still dumb that they never acknowledge this point. Alastor pretty much said it himself in the pilot. The sinners in hell already had a chance when they were on earth and they didn’t take it. It’s not like God is like if you do something once you can never get another chance again. No. You have as much time as you do on earth to turn around your life and turn to God. Everyone that’s in hell decided not to do so. Charlie constantly goes on and on about giving sinners a second chance but they already had thousands when they were on earth. Like Alastor said, hell is the final resting point once you die. You can’t get mad at heaven or God and act like they’re the bad guys when you yourself didn’t take the abundance of chances you had when you were still on earth. It’s also worth noting that not everyone in hell deserves a second chance. Valentino for example. It’s such a crime that this show NEVER acknowledges either of these points. But, then again if they did then there would be no show lol.
I feel like it would make more since if we actually had reasons to sympathize with why the characters sinned or even if the show have characters with sins like sex before marriage, being gay, etc. You can't show me someone that clearly likes commiting acts of violence and expect me to believe they deserve to get into heaven. Not to mention, they never mention if they have limits as to who they'll accept into the hotel.
Will they be willing to redeem a rapist? Murderer? Abusive parent/spouse? Did any of these people try to fix these behaviors or get on the right path while they were alive? If not, why? Did they have to act on sinful behaviors to survive? (Stealing, prostitution, etc) Did they just not believe in god? Why should I care that this person is in hell. From what I see, they earned their slot there just like a person who'd end up in heaven.
It is and thats why most fans and characters dont support her ideas.
@@briangriffin5372 if she didn’t care about Christianity, she wouldn’t add those elements to her show
1:50 -2:00 That description of Charlie sounds very familiar for some reason. Almost like she's an author's surrogate without a single bit of self-awareness or irony.
👀
WHHaaaT??
😐😐😐
Whatever are you talking about??🤨
@@OneClassicalLass i have no clue either but "authors surrogate" maybe means... carrying whatever the writer wishes??? Idk, all I know is Charlie got impregnated by Vivziepop apparently
@@SodaFrizz666 What MBThomas is trying to say is that Charlie is Vivienne Medrano's author avatar. Like a self insert except Vivienne Medrano's is horribly written.
@@peachybunny1875
That self insert thing seemed quite obvious from the start...
Not that there's anything wrong with self inserts if done correctly...
Charlie giving sinners redemption... Essentially making Heavens victims from people that abused them r*pe them, murdur them. And their kids families.... A chance to live together.... Who would ever want that.. And that's f*cked up
That's why I say she is selfish judging hypocrite manipulating toxic with narcissistic disorder she thinks she is good and does it for people but doesn't XD its the same for Emily cause they are totally same at least when it comes to voice and personality and its more worse for Charlie I can say why 🙏
😂😂
This might be a really weird and uncommon take. But I dont think Vivziepop is necessarily unaware that her writing is bad. I think she really enjoys her own bad writing.
With what I know about vivzie, idk she doesn't seem like the most self aware person lol. But I do agree that she probably loves her own writing
Vivzie pop's writing is literally no different from the corrupted hollywood writing
She changes original voice actors for the more popular and more well known cast's,even if said cast wouldn't entirely have that smae vibe or tone that the original voice actors portrayed much better with,one of which was badly voiced acted was "Katie Killjoy" she barely has much screen time in the show but her voice was so out of focus from her personality and charcter it just sucks that people tolerate it just because they "like the show"
What's eveb funny is viv said in her interview that she is willing to "kill her darling's" when that feels very shadily bias,this could really imply she heard the criticism of her own show but knstead of learning from it while making the show she simply shoced it for the second season to excuse her complete lack of skill in writing hee one characters ( and i doubt shes gonna kill her *favorite* darling, especially when Serpentious the least favorite of Her OC's was blasted like a walking joke and only revived to keep the fans of the show drooling and praising her undercooked of a show)
The main character *Charlie* is basic at best and looks like the typical y/n at worst with all the,blonde hair,blue eyes,*rich* brat with a sad (not so sad) typical backstory and the only excuse they gave her for her failings was "she's quirky, she's naive" Bias,that doesn't excuse that shes a terrible MC since the first show...she sounds like those typical preaching with doing no real effort or development to the story (they just shoved all of the information in our throat's without giving us a time to breathe)
(which was over used in the show *literally*) was everyone having daddy issues in the show Instead of issues regarding the present of their story and it's extremely causing the whole series on HH and HB to look mundane and dull and down right annoying and frustrating (sometimes it might as well pisse off some people who understands the bad writing and terrible characters of the show)
And let's not forget people will excuse the main characters flaws because she's "empowering" or " she's making change's" and whatever nonsense
it's really giving off pretty white privilege excuse and bias (something similar that is happening in Helluva boss where blitzo is being treated like a villain and Stoliz as some uwu gay boy when *both* parties are equally bad,it jsut strains and makes the fan hate the ship with how Toxic it is)
even if the show has good potential,the amount of total denial and excuse from both fan's and down right people who barely acknowledge or cares to understand the show in general would annoy the hell out of everyone elses opinions and criticism (at this point the show is failing itself and the only one's praising this show are the Fan's or artists who has better writing for the damn story)
The recasting is weird because the show had a HUGE fanbase already and you're more likely to piss those people off by replacing the current actors rather than draw new people in with a star studded cast.
And, while vivzie might know the phrase "kill your darlings," she certainly doesn't know how to apply it. I actually think that's why pentious wasn't as poorly written as everyone else. He wasn't her darling.
@@jazzandghost Vivienne Medrano recasts the pilot cast because she wanted to become more popular by hiring the more popular and well known cast. You may not know this, but Sir Pentious is based on her old ex-friend and victim, DollCreep. 9 years ago, Vivienne Medrano encouraged her fans to cyberbully DollCreep on DevianrtArt to the point DollCreep had to be hospitalized. She then made a tweet saying "Karma is so awesome, aw man.
@@peachybunny1875Holy crap. That’s awful. I had no idea something like that happened.
@@peachybunny1875
Sheesh,that might explain why her show is messed up,it might just be a reflection of her own self (not to be disrespectful or start a hate base,just my thoughts on her show and writing since it really can happen,some and a lot of small and we'll known authors often ended up portraying their personalities in thier stories which is fine but can be risky if not done right)..which Viv may have shown unintentionally or not in her own show
@@peachybunny1875 Holy crap.... That's messed up.... Did anyone call her out on this publicly? That has to have already come to light publicly yes?
i really wish that hazbin hotel was a good show 😭😭 the concept is kickass and the animation is gorgeous but.. the writing.... dear god the writing (ba bum tss!)
also voxes and alastors dynamic is funny imo
Honestly Hazbin hotel feels like an abridged watt pad AU version of the pilot.
There probably was a draft somewhere on the writing floor that could've make for a good show but budget, an oppressive network, bad working conditions, and weird marketing decisions probably made directing the show a living nightmare, and in the end we got this unrecognizable mess.
Like I'm sorry but you can't change a shows, art style, Voice actors, designs, and animation and not expect it to come of as jarring.
I find it funny that the most popular character in this show is adam ironically. Love him or hate him people talk about him alot. More then any other character i have seen. People were pissed that adam died out of nowhere and hope he comes back as a sinner. But vizie says hes not coming back which i feel like shes lying. Maybe adam wont be in season 2 but will appear again in season 3 or 4. If he doesnt appear at all then yea he was wasted character
@@NicholasSanchez-df7ls
I feel like he should've been written differently, it felt like Vivzie just put stuff she hated into Adam's character and boom- Bad Guy.
@OneClassicalLass well adam is based of vizie ex boyfriend so
@@NicholasSanchez-df7ls I didn't know that... It all makes sense now...
I wonder what that relationship was like 🤔
@@NicholasSanchez-df7lsthat makes way too much sense
The most popular is actually Alastor
To be honest... The first time I watched the Pilot episode(the old one), I thought it's going to be an apocalyptic setting, MC actually maturing, angels are actually scary and mysterious... But no, we got a boring(kinda cringe) MC, useless jokes everywhere, pointless, angels are just... there, i guess.
Honestly, after I watched all of that... yeah, disappointed.
It amazes me that shows like Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss have such massive fandoms.
Both shows are unsuffarable
You when people have different interests than you:
@MatthewMurdock-cq8xu But the person is right actually..
@@Pomeranian690 Thanks for proving his point you idiot 👍
@@pjdixon6199 Slow that language alright?? You sound like a child 😂
The thing that kills me the most about this show is how there are just *so many seeds* of good ideas and concepts just absolutely jam packed into this show, but none of them are handled by the writers with any degree of finesse to make them compelling, as well as not taking what they had and actually making something coherent with the limited time they knew they had. Watching the show was an exercise in frustration because I could _see_ how some parts of the show could've been actually intriguing if they'd been handled with more care and more time, but as it is it just all feels like a waste.
Everything worth a damn in this show is either underdeveloped, underutilized, or both at once.
I can name a lot of the problems I have, as a fan of Hazbin Pilot (and I mean it, I have been a fan for as long as I remember) and a Roman Catholic
Watching Hazbin Hotel Pilot has some interesting worldbuildings and plots, that can be changed or could be maintained for another upcoming episode. The beginning shows us Charlie’s perspective as a witness of an endless purge caused by the extermination, and we get to see that she was saddened by it and she needed to do something to solve the issue (In Pilot, the issue is that the extermination happened to quell the overpopulation issue in hell, which I would count as some necessary evil in their part), then we have established characters; Angel Dust, Alastor, Husk, Nifty, Vaggie, Cherri, Sir Pentious, you can name a few, although only a little characters were the first spotlight in the Pilot. I can see Charlie succeeding in redeeming and helping Angel Dust to overcome his own mistakes in life, as it is one of the solution countering the overpopulation, and I really do care if she will succeed or not. I wanted her to acknowledge some errors and mistakes she did and should not be afraid to learn from it, and also, learn from Vaggie’s advice and others. I know Vaggie is sidelined because Alastor does somethimg to help the hotel, but she deserves the spotlight, too.
But then, the show happened, it made a complete turn on the whole plot, and disregards the theme of Redemption and made it into Heaven vs Hell. This theme upsets me because it is redundant. Charlie wasn’t mature in this show anymore, but was more of childish Mary Sue whose sinners and all other characters should be in her favor, no disagreements, no wrongs, and anyone who is opposite to her is considered the enemy. This is not the correct way to write a main character of the story, there should be arcs, meet the challenges and obstacles and overcome them to achieve their goals, not this type. I started disliking Charlie for what she did to Angel Dust, and it’s sad that she is nit helping Angel Dust overcome his own past mistakes; the worst thing is Vaggie blames it and pins it on Husk to apologize to Angel Dust, instead of Charlie becoming the mediator of these two.
I want to like Hazbin Hotel, but the writing and worldbuilding problems and how the whole Critiquing of the Christianity felt butchered from the way the Heaven and Hell is presented. I am fine with the moral ambiguity of Heaven and Hell, but not the Heaven is evil trope (the reason is what’s the point if both of them are evil, where can I go then?) ‘Those sinners are innocent!’ - Excuse me, does that mean you are condoning evil people to go to Heaven and make the victims suffer all the time? Bad choice of words, Emily! The victims will hate you for that.
It sucks that I have rooted for her to succeed from the Pilot, but she became wasted for much more of deflecting much advices and criticisms.
Well... Charlie was already horribly agnorant from the pilot. Why? I'll tell you
(btw it will be long so be careful)
The two (Charlie and Vaggie) have obviously known each other for a long time, with Vaggie even saying she’ll help her out when she makes her speech. Charlie is instead, annoyed rather, not really wanting to stick to their supposed plan and spice things up a bit with a song. It is understandable that
Charlie would want to do something like this, of course it fits her personality and her character flaws, but this particular scene is our introduction to how Charlie doesn’t necessarily LISTEN to Vaggie. While we see that the two clearly care for one another, Charlie is clearly more interested in doing things her way, even after she said she wouldn’t sing when Vaggie begged her not to and to just go over their script. Now the immediate thing I want to say is no, I’m not saying Charlie should listen to Vaggie 24/7.
Charlie is obviously her OWN person and can do whatever she wants, but we all know how air-headed and blind she is, she’s not necessarily SMART like Vaggie is. If she was, she would have did what her and Vaggie went over instead of going off script, wether wanting to spice things up or not. Speaking of that, we all knew this was coming, Charlie ends up singing indeed, with Vaggie facepalming all the way through. You can tell that stuff like this has happened before, it’s why Vaggie is somewhat controlling because Charlie doesn’t always make the best decisions. There’s nothing I can say that anyone else hasn’t already said here. Charlie should have just listened to Vaggie, and by not doing so, she made herself look like a fool on front of all of Hell, so moving on.
Before we get to the limo scene, I want to say what happened after the crowd laughed at Charlie. I disliked how Charlie didn’t even MENTION how Vaggie was helping her. She’s quick to brag about Angel, a famous porn star who doesn’t even believe in her cause nor give a shit about her, but not the person she’s known for so long, has her back 24/7, helps her out, and genuinely cares about her??? And if she didn’t want to mention Vaggie directly, fine, but at least say “I have someone amazing helping me” or “there’s already a person who believes in me” SOMETHING like that to at least show that she freaking APPRECIATES her. I don’t care if it had to do with Angel as a patron or had to do with clients at the hotel, all I wish she would have done was acknowledge Vaggie’s existence. But no, much like Viv herself, she doesn’t acknowledge Vaggie.
With that said, let’s get to the limo scene.
Of course, this scene is just infuriating to watch for me because not ONCE does Charlie stick up for Vaggie, or even HERSELF for that matter. After they pick up Angel, Vaggie gets on his case about what he did, and Angel clearly doesn’t care, laughing and joking about all of this, and jabbing at them both and the project. Since
Charlie is uwu sad from the fiasco at the news station, she sulks like a child the entire time while this ugly candy cane constantly insults and ridicules her girlfriend.
Now before people come at me, yes, I KNOW Vaggie is a full grown adult and isn’t some damsel in distress, she’s perfectly capable of standing up for herself. However, it just bothers me that
Charlie doesn’t do or say shit, Angel even flat out calls her a bitch and Charlie just sits there, hell, there’s literally
a shot of Charlie SMILING for some reason while Vaggie is pissed. These two are supposed to be GIRLFRIENDS, yet not only does Charlie just sit there and take the bullshit Angel gives her, but she doesn’t even correct or discipline Angel for his shitty actions towards her partner. Once again, it’s so funny that Viv tries to showcase how Charlie “knows she’s in hell” and can take care of herself, yet here she just lets Angel ridicule her and Vaggie, someone who THEIR housing with THIER money. Charlie only gets one line to react to this whole thing, which is “That was really uncool you know Angel”- and that’s it. No “you’re not going to talk to us that way”, no “you’re going to timeout”, no “don’t speak to vaggie that way” none of that. I mention the whole “time out” thing because Viv has stated that that’s how she would discipline misbehaved demons, yet here she doesn’t do anything for Angel. She’s just proving to him that he can do whatever the hell he wants with no consequences, and that he can continue to fuck with Vaggie without her saying anything. Some girlfriend she is.
So, I want to mention one more thing before we get to the clusterfuck that is Alastor, but I think some people might see this and say “Well maybe Charlie was too vulnerable in this scene to do anything”- and to that I say, yeah, she was in the beginning, but literally after Angel asks for the liquor, she’s sitting up and listening instead of curling up in a ball and pouting like she was in the beginning of the scene. Even her lame line she said about Angel shows that she was capable of putting her foot down, yet since she’s too childish, she didn’t. I also understand that you could say she probably didn’t want to jab at Angel because she’s trying to be kind to all demons to help them better, but telling Angel to knock it off isn’t that hard. It’s so funny because this scene kinda showcases how Vaggie is more of the one who’s actually
putting in the work for this hotel and cares, while Charlie just sits back and acts dimwitted. She’s the one in charge of this whole thing, it should have been HER talking to Angel, not Vaggie.
So finally, let’s get to when ALASTOR arrives. Whoo boy.
Once Alastor enters the picture, everyone kinda just ignores Vaggie. She’s pushed to the side, and when she TRIES to speak and voice her concerns, nobody listens to her. Let’s start at the beginning though. When Al knocks on the door, Vaggie says to not let Alastor in because they both know he’s dangerous (even though Charlie’s more powerful than him so I don’t know why she’s so afraid) but she doesn’t listen and let’s him in. I obviously don’t have a problem with that, what
I DO have a problem with is Alastor constantly harassing Vaggie RIGHT IN FRONT of Charlie, while she just stares there blankly. Throughout the rest of the pilot, Alastor is constantly pushing Vaggie to the side, shoving her away, or even outright assaulting her, and the ENTIRE time, Charlie is either blind and doesn’t notice, or is watching this unfold with her OWN eyes and doesn’t do shit. She’s either too distracted by Al, or blatantly watches this asshat push her friend around, just letting it happen. Oh I’m sorry, not just Alastor, but ANGEL as well.
If the limo scene wasn’t enough, once Al brings the bar in for Husk,
Vaggie protests but Angel literally TACKLES HER TO THE DAMN GROUND, putting his hands on her and telling her to shut up RIGHT IN FRONT OF CHARLIE.
And what does Charlie do? Nothing. It’s not even Angel’s fucking CALL to have a bar in a hotel, he’s not the one in charge, Charlie is, and yet she just goes with it and doesn’t say shit to him about pushing Vaggie to the side. It’s fucking ridiculous how all of this shit is happening right in front of her face, yet she doesn’t do or say anything.
So of course, let’s talk about the scene where Vaggie pulls Charlie to the side and talks to her. Charlie does bring up a valid reason to let him help because if she didn’t it would be going against what she believes in, but she says she can take care of herself when.....well she’s literally done nothing BUT prove to everyone that they can walk all over her but whatever. The part that’s important is that Charlie for fucking ONCE actually listens to Vaggie and doesn’t make a deal with Al. I’m actually AMAZED, but still....that doesn’t let Charlie off the hook at all. Not only does she not do shit when the other characters push her friend around and treat her like garbage, but once Al wins her over, she’s so blind to
notice how WORRIED and upset Vaggie is. Vaggie throughout Alastor’s song is constantly trying to get to Charlie but Al purposely pulls her away, and you feel so fucking bad for her because Charlie doesn’t even NOTICE!
It’s disgusting how much of a PUNCHING bag character Vaggie is, just like Moxxie from Helluva Boss.
It also hurts that even BEFORE Al came, Charlie never listened to Vaggie anyway, but now that this big powerful helping demon has entered the picture, she sure as hell won’t now. I SWEAR, Charlie is one of those characters where if you were Vaggie and said Alastor did something out of pocket, she would just go “Oh just go with it” or “oh it’s not THAT bad”. And here’s the thing. To wrap this all up, I KNOW that Charlie is naive, I KNOW that she can make her own decisions when you get to it without Vaggie, but the reason why I truly think she’s a bad girlfriend even in the pilot is just that she simply doesn’t support
Vaggie in the same way Vaggie supports HER. Vaggie will always be by Charlie’s side, but Charlie is just too blind and stupid to care about what Vaggie says, or even take into CONSIDERATION what she says. She didn’t listen to her about the singing, she didn’t stick by her side when Angel ridiculed her, and she didn’t do anything when Al pushed her around. She may be caring, but she doesn’t support her, stand by her side, stick up for her, or do ANYTHING to help her the way vaggie helps her. From Charlie’s perspective, I GUESS you could say she’s just so happy that Al is making her dream a reality, but I’m sorry, I just feel so bad for Vaggie. VAGGIE..👏....DESERVES...👏.....BETTER. 👏
But I agree Charlie wasn't so bad as she is in the series well she was but in the series it's so worse
"If angels can do whatever and stay in the sky, then heaven is a lie"
Bro, the existence of vaggie and LUCIFER literally destroys that point. They really thought they cooked with that line XD
Speaking as someone who was following the original pilot back when we all thought she'd be doing a "Dante's Inferno meets Black Butler" kind of story about the meaning of morality, the writing changes from pilot to tv show were expected, but man did it sting that she didn't go with her original story concepts...
She doesn’t understand morality. She wants to tell a story of how hypocritical heaven is without understanding the concept of good and evil. From the looks of it she has the pre school thinking. There is a difference between being “nice” and being good/holy.
Yeah, I also wished it was kept simple like in the pilot:
Charlie and friends helped bad but not utterly irredeemable people and people who are misguided yet not unfixable and/or couldn’t redeem themselves when they wanted to in life, genuinely trying to help them in not only wanting to become better for the sake of it but also so that they don’t suffer for all of eternity in Hell.
Also, Purgatory should’ve been introduced properly.
@@DanialTarkithat's the thing, I asked about it and apparently everyone and Viz said it doesn't exist because then hazbin would be redundant from my understanding. Which is funny as freak.
@@MrSophireI agree.
Charlie is judging selfish hypocrite character too
Charlie never ever listened to Vaggie only twice but that's all she is bad girlfriend to Vaggie and bad supporter
Vaggie has only Charlie and had a past she wasn't proud of and was worried about losing her
but instead of understanding Vaggie Charlie talked about herself to Alastor like it's her being betrayed by her girlfriend!
She even didn't give at least Vaggie space to let her explain it! Yes if she would be only hurted alright but how acted was totally out of her character
She even treated Vaggie as some kind of monster like she would be worse than all sinners Charlie was so cold at Vaggie
When said clodly about angelic weapons: If you would know that would you tell me? She acted like Vaggie would be her enemy and a monster
Yes they made it then but only cause of Rosie help and it doesn't change a fact how acted with Vaggie
She never ever protected Vaggie when others disrespected Vaggie only once she tried to protect at the end but that's all
she forces Vaggie in doing something she doesn't wanna do and if Vaggie does it it's only cause of Charlie but we can clearly see Vaggie sounded felt like she would be forced
It most of the time seems like Charlie takes an advantage of Vaggie to do something what Charlie wanna
Vaggie deserves better in my opinion
Charlie is worst person character the facts I said I'll not repeat it it's already in answers In why Chaggie is toxic
She made feel Angel dust like he wouldn't matter when was proud of Sir Pentious but seriously!?
Angel dust stayed for free room yes but he wanna redeem himself he just hides it or something like that but
Sir Pentious didn't wanna redemption at the first place before he wanted to betray them only!
She didn't understand and respect Angels discomfort when Charlie came to his job cause of idiotic hotel! She was arrogant
and even if ok she stayed but she wasn't quiet and was stupid enough to talk loudly to Travis about Hazbin
Yes she said sorry but only cause how Angel dust screamed to Charlie it's with kids too when you scream at them and they cry and say sorry but don't know why but say sorry cause are screamed on
And I know I'll repeat it again I'm sorry XD but she is toxic character
she has trouble emotionally understanding the motivations and problems of other characters.
- Self-reflection is missing, she only perceives her own one-sided view.
- Empathy is rather superficial, she does not understand deeper human emotions.
- Social interactions are difficult for her, she can't take a regard .
- The world is divided into black and white, there is no complexity.
even though she appears in the show as if she feels empathy like the pain of others but it's more superficial and it looks like she's focused on herself on her goal to change the demons end the extermination etc. Or about how others feel, for example sometimes Angel dust or sometimes mostly Vaggie and the other characters.
Charlie is present with a selfish desire to pursue her dream at any cost without truly understanding the needs of others.
Charlie is also selfish
It was selfish of her how in the song Ready for this cannibals they sang about killing and how they will eat angels and Charlie just with a judgmental expression:
ehh Well that's a little violent can we tone it down?
Like what? Yes Charlie is a princess but that doesn't mean she can control their thinking as she wants.
She was so judging than understanding.
they like to be what they want and Charlie sounds so stupid she sounded like she didn't know they were cannibals.
- The demons only sang about their natural nature as cannibals, which is their everyday reality.
- But Charlie wanted to dictate to them how to limit their speech according to her taste.
- At the same time, she clearly did not understand that for them, being a cannibal is their identity, which they are proud of.
- Her rebuke seemed arrogant and she didn't understand their situation
she is selfish some said she gives chances like she maybe gives a second chances but still make others feel not important did others how Angel felt?! Or Vaggie or Lucifer!?
She doesn't listen what others want or their needs they have some they just wanna be the way they are
- The fact that Charlie gives a second chance does not include her further actions and behavior and does not excuse her for the way she behaves.
- As I said, she still does not listen to the needs of others and makes them less important.
- She judges their true nature without understanding their situation, like as I said I'm Cannibal Town when Charlie started a war because Adam wanted to attack and the cannibals sang about how they would eat and kill angels. They were just happy and happy to be the way they are, but Charlie judged them:
Ehh that's a little violent can we tone it down? Ughh they are little murder right now. It sounded like she didn't even know they were cannibals like hello Charlie didn't she realize clearly that cannibals
would be murderous like this? (sorry but that was judgmental and toxic and selfish of her) she just wanted to direct them to suit her taste even though she is the princess she cannot control their behaviors or minds.
-Moreover, some said that Charlie is giving a second chance, but she didn't give a chance to Adam before Nifty stabbed him and why didn't she give Lucifer a chance from the beginning? She called him for help just because she needed something and she didn't even want to call him because she thought he didn't want to see her while he was struggling with his depression.
And then she judged him and said nonsense that: Why is Alastor here for me when my own father is not?) Like this was toxic selfish judgmental from her and she didn't give him a chance from the beginning.
Charlia's words about Alastor in contrast to her father Lucifer were unempathetic and over the top.
Even if she didn't know his true motives, she had no right to judge and compare him like that.
- Lucifer wanted to protect her from danger, even if Charlie didn't know it.
- He was struggling with his own problems and depression and it might have been too psychologically taxing to help her.
- Alastor is a manipulator, his help was with a selfish intention, which she didn't notice, but she still knows Alastor's personality a little
- She didn't take into account her father's emotional state and problems, she only focused on her own goals. (only then did she gave a chance to him, but she still judged him and didn't give him a chance at the beggining).
Her words were inappropriate and showed her lack of empathy towards her own family. It was really over the line and out of line.
She almost never apologized only some times but that's all
And she is really hypocrite
Alastor at the episodes 8 when was war between demons and angels exorcists and he protected hotel and main cast Adam hurted Al and Al disappeared but others didn't know it and thought he died
Charlie didn't cry or anything she was like in the mind: Wow sad
But when Sir Pentious protected them and died for them Charlie cried as a baby!! And even made portrait of him!
But what about Alastor?!!
Even if Alastor didn't protect them genuinely Charlie doesn't know it lol.
Some people say she is really so empathic HA! She even didn't cry about Alastor
Charlie and empathic?? It's rather superficial empathic!
She doesn't wanna help others cause of joy or something like that
She wanna help others cause she needs to or has to in order she would feel better about herself
Charlie is hypocrite toxic judging and selfish
@@rachelgardnerorray lo de Alastor me pegó profundo, más sabiendo la parte en la que canta solo en su torre dd radio destruida y teniendo un colapso mental mientras el resto canta feliz y ni se preocupan de que haya pasado con él
i don't hate the idea of heaven not exactly being perfect sounds compelling, but the point is that Heaven is better. It has a better structure and treats its own people with decency. Problem is, the show isn't really telling us that. Its more leaning onto "both are just as bad" and i feel like just breaks the whole premise. I do love this show, but i do wish they did things more differently. I feel like if they were given more episodes, things could've gone smoother. Or took the risk and tried to be slower with plot, not telling us more about heaven and focusing on the main characters.
@@XppleCutiie I feel like the whole "both sides are just as bad" thing would never work because one side is full of rapists and murderers while the other... Isn't.
@@guerreiroazul3230
Like I said before...
This story could've benefitted from the 'bad guys' being correct. Have the angels have the moral high ground and when Charlie tries to challenge them, they clap back HARD with very good and even agreeable points....
But Vivzie wanted the angels to be evil so... No nuance for Hazbin Hotel.
@@OneClassicalLass Exactly, but unfortunately a character is only as smart as the writer, so because Vivzie couldn't think of an argument for Charlie to be wrong then the angels couldn't think of one either.
For me, part of the problem is that even when she learns that Heaven is bad and won't accept her idea, she still wants to redeem sinner to go to Heaven. Like, shouldn't you rethink your big idea there for a second?
@Pepperfizz That's cause she is narcisstic she has narcisstic disorder I can say why I think that of course if you're wondering of course🧸
I wouldn’t call Star inspiring….
At least not season four star when it ended with her causing a magic genocide and no one batted an eye.
Yeah, Season 4 Star, sadly, was a victim of very bad writing. She was completely different from how she'd been written in the rest of the show. And the finale was disastrous!
Why are you so smart???? Like you have such a deep understanding of religion and good/bad writing. I agree with almost everything you say! I love your point that you can’t judge something you don’t understand based on seeing someone do it poorly.
From that summary, I feel like this show would've been a lot better if the creator wasn't so obsessed with dunking on Christianity that she forgot to give the characters any reason to exist or any sort of deeper meaning.
Even as a Christian, it had the potential for me to enjoy it. Redemption and found family are probably my two favorite tropes ever. If that had been the central theme of Hazbin Hotel with the moral heart being about selflessness or compassion, then I think I could enjoy it. But there is no redemption (there is no CHANGE), they are not found family (they don't even seem to care about each other much aside from the one guy), every character (again, except the one guy) is selfish, and no one calls them out on it.
Problem with the show is that Charlie is a Mary sue.she needs to be aware that not everyone can be redeemed.What I hate about the show is that it has a lot of plot holes.i heard that the show was forced into 8 episodes which I get kinda is a excuse.i feel like bring back adam and giving him a redemption arc would be good cause adam would be a challenge for Charlie and challenges her beliefs While we get to see why Adam is the way he is and maybe get a clue of where is eve or Cain and Abel.i love hazbin hotel and all the characters and show but I’m not like the fan base I can admit when my favorite show has a lot of problems.hazbin hotel is the type of the show where you’ll need to turn off your brain to enjoy….my fav is Adam.
your observations are spot on, my first thought after seeing Charlie and her attitude was: WTF WHAT A MARY SUE!!! (Btw my fav is Adam too)
@@ikebanayukari448 thx.I don’t see how people can hate Adam.Cool design? Check! Cool powers?check! Dad bod with a belly? Check!Good songs? Check!
In fact he’s one of the few characters that have the potential of being good if Vizi brings him back I think one of two things should happen.He becomes a overlord or two he seems out redemption but she better not make Adam weak like I sure to god he better not drop from a Lilith threat level to a regular sinner.
This shows plotholes are almost infinite. Even the music and character designs have been critizied
Does Mary Sue have flaws?
@ kinda
Remember how cool Lucifer was in Milton's Paradise Lost? And then you have this........
Vivzie made Hazbin Hotel because she's still mad at her parents for dragging her to church, something she should have gotten over in her early 20s.
Not to mention she has been encouraging atrocious behavior to her fans for years to the point they pushed Shay and two more fans to suicide over ships.
@@peachybunny1875 Wait, what?
@@Stratoblast The HuskerDust shippers harassed Shay for liking RadioDust on December 2023 to the point Shay committed suicide. After that, Chaggie and RadioApple shippers harassed Charlastor fans this past October that they took their own life as well. One Charlastor fan was 18 while the other Charlastor fan was 20.
@@peachybunny1875
Holy shit that's awful. May their souls rest in peace.
@@peachybunny1875 You have any proof of this?
Another problem I have is how Charlie does a terrible job at redeeming sinners. She could easily stop Angel dust from doing adult film since her father is the ruler of hell and she’s more powerful than Valentino.
It's cause she helps people or tries to help people to feed her ego she is narcisstic that's why she does terrible job at redeeming demons. 😂
But I agree with you! But people justify Charlie bruh
unless the soul contracts are absolute and the problem is more than just using force to remove the opposition. We don't know the intricacies of how far the contracts go. Just that signing your soul away means you lose your autonomy
Have you forgotten the soul contract thing? It’s not that easy to have a contracted soul be freed like that
@@Pomeranian690 Maybe study narcissism before you start to accuse someone of it
@@sailorstar3148 Bro it says the right one which doesn't know what is narcissistic disorder XD
rather
you study that before youll retalk my argument by your weak arguments alright? Cause I know anything about narcissistic I can even tell you and then we can analyse Charlie and narcisstic disorder mmm? Alright? I'm wondering if you'll shout after XD
Just found your channel, and I love your style! So many videos about media are just pointing out the flaws. Which is fine I guess.
But I appreciate creators who actually give insightful critiques on how to fix said problems or show examples of good writing in comparison to the bad. It’s refreshing!
Hey, thanks so much! Yeah, even though I didn't like the show, I still wanted to show ways it could've been better, and at least learn from its mistakes :)
gotta say I don't get the people who complain about the fact that your vid is lengthy. its incredibly well made and well researched and really highlights a lot of problems with this show.
Exactly!! Even me I think as her and I can say people complain cause try to justify the show or Charlie 😂 insane protectors that's all I can say.
Show would have been more appealing if they made the angels less the obvious bad guys. Like either Adam instead of the generic frat guy evil dude he’s a grizzled war vet seeing the worst hell has to offer over the years being the first human angel. But no he’s just generic evil frat guy this show had so much potential and now I just don’t care about it.
ehh I think the frat boy is fine but just let him explain his rationale more often. He's not killing innocent civilians he's killing objectively evil people.
WHY DOESN'T HE CALL HER OUT ON THAT?
Charlie is exceedingly ignorant throughout the entire show she literally brought crayon drawings to a meeting deciding the fate of millions which should be a uwu shes so cute i like her thing but instead makes her look idiotic the show also makes her seem incredibly sheltered not knowing about the majority of how hell works her "trauma" isnt anything at all she thinks rehabilitating sinners is as simple as boy scout trust excercises she literally gave money to cherri and told her to go to a club with an addict who shes "trying" to rehabilitate
This ignorance also extends to emily whos probably the equivalent to charlie she literally calls sinners innocent souls somehow she cant gasp the simple concept that hell exists for a reason
They have a horrid problem with double standards for example angel getting sa'd should be sad and we feel bad for him but with pentious its a shitty joke
The pacing , many would argue its due to only 8 episodes being available for a full 1st season which i think is stupid either demand more episodes or just put less into the 1st season issues arise because of the 8 episodes given and vivzies ass writing like emily just immediately siding with hell instead of the place she was literally born and raised in
It also struggles with giving any consequences to people and make bad people seem good for example lucifer caused pretty much the creation of evil but its ok because uwu hes just a depressed twink angel too were supposed to feel sympathetic for and like him which is impossible when hes annoying as shit and his trauma doesnt justify it
Absoloutely nobody in the entire main cast is written well but at the very least they could have made them enjoyable but they couldnt even accomplish that for anybody except for alastor
It would have been interesting if Charlie brought the crayon drawings BECAUSE she din't have any other writing utensils on hand. Because someone at the hotel destroyed all the other writing stuff.
That might have made her choice to show such drawings more understandable/reasonable.
@@DrawciaGleam02 For real shed look a lot less stupid that way
@@DrawciaGleam02 o simplemente hubiera presentado el proyecto de una forma seria. Quizás una carpeta con los antecedentes y mejoras que van teniendo los residentes de su hotel (quizás, dada la personalidad de Charlie, decorada con varios stickers y dibujos). Digo, en un centro de Rehabilitación o en una sesión de terapia debe haber algo que registrado lo que tenga el paciente y el cómo va mejorando. Esto, la redención es un sistema complejo, no es un jardín de niños con actividades como los juegos, canciones y ejercicios de confianza como propone Charlie
I've said before that I think Adam's characterization would work a lot better if it were applied to Samson-and if anyone is curious, I'd be more than willing to explain why-but I can think of another individual who would be *much* more effective antagonistic force towards anyone proclaiming the possibility of Hellions redeeming themselves.
In fact, I can think of *seven* such individuals.
While they aren't canon by any means, sources describe a group of Seven "Angels of Punishment" who, as their title implies, exist to deliver God's judgement upon those who violate His laws.
Of these Angels, two in particular would make for an almost PERFECT antithesis to Charlie.
The first of these is Kushiel. For one, his name literally means RIGID ONE OF GOD. His personality practically writes itself. Not to mention the fact that his sole purpose is *punishing sinners in Hell.* Imagine if Charlie burst into the meeting room with her crayon drawings, ready to explain her genius plan for redeeming Sinners, only to come face-to-face with a massive Archangel holding a literal whip of flames who is also personally responsible for introducing scores of condemned to a very literal world of pain.
That being said, the second one might be even better- Raguel, described as the Archangel of Justice, Fairness, and Harmony. His specific purpose is to keep Demons from "overstepping their boundaries", and has even been equated with a sheriff or police officer in the way he carries out his duties. Not to mention, his name-which means "Friend of God"-would imply that he is VERY devoted to his Creator, and view the very *idea* of Sinners being redeemed after being consigned to Hell as an insult due to the implication that God was in the wrong for sending Sinners to Hell in the first place.
Either one of these guys could work as being in charge of the Exterminations-Heck I think it'd be interesting if it was a team effort from all seven Angels of Punishment-and the fact that any one of them is capable of going toe-to-toe with Satan's top minions and possibly even coming out victorious would put pressure on Charlie to find a way to win against them on the *ideological* battleground rather than the *literal* one.
I wish they'd showed Eve. Could've done something interesting regarding hypocrisy and rigidness in the rules if Eve is in Hell and Adam is in Heaven.
Ah yes, my favorite Bible verse: “to live is canabalism”
Hope you get more subs soon. I agree that the show, for all its good animation and music, has huge writing problems.
Listen... I think the phrase "She cooked" should be for videos like yours! Because you didn't just cook, you sauteed, you grilled, you fried, you just ... You did it!! Great video! I love long form content, so I spent two hours writing notes on the original mythology I'm working on whilst listening to your video, and it really helped me focus!!
Keep it up! I love your videos and your personality, and the way you deliver your views!! Very well done!!
All that cooking talk has me really hungry now 😆 have fun with your mythology!
@@jazzandghostOh and I also agree with your point on villains!
Villains doing partially the right thing OR having a good/understandable motive makes a good villain.
My FAVORITE example of a good villain with understandable and maybe even the right motives is Magneto!!!
What he does is terrible for sure, BUT his motives for doing so isn't!
Magneto was a victim of the Holocaust, Lost his parents and sister to Nazis, lost his daughter to cruel men and his wife to fear.... in his eye he's seen the worst humanity has to offer, they can and sometimes do, eradicate what they don't like or what they fear.... Ok short: HUMANS ARE CRUEL. And he kept this view as he grew up- he thought that humans would destroy mutants, kill them... "Take the to the gas chambers" so to speak, and to protect mutants and ensure they don't get wiped out by 'inferior' humans, he thinks they should rise above humans and rule over them... and view humans as inferior... Or kill them all first.
Magneto has done some horrid crap, but you can see why!!!
Magneto wants liberation through violence..... He has an ANY MEANS necessary approach!
That's why Xavier and the X-Men are perfect adversaries, Xavier strives for equality between the humans and mutants alike and strives for PEACE not violence!
That's why Magneto is a good villain! He's so complex, seriously!
A less complex version of this would be MCU's Ultron. He saw a glimpse of the world wide web and thought
"All humans must die!!!"
To be fair, if my first interaction with humanity was the Internet... I'd want them all dead too!!
So yeah, villains shouldn't be just simplistic, EVER!! Even seemingly simple villains are complex and much deeper- that's why we love them!!
People can like simple villains sure, but the complex ones with story and crap- they get ALL the love!!!
Sorry I went on a tangent there.... Sorry I made you hungry, thanks for wishing me luck on my mythology, I'll need it... And prayer 😊!!!
As a cook, she did in fact sauté 👌
For me, the moral grey area in the concept of hell has never been whether or not people who've done horrific crimes deserve to be punished for it. It's the unilateral application of eternal damnation as a punishment for everyone regardless of the severity of the crime. Everybody knows sex traffickers are bad people who probably should go to hell, but is the lesbian couple next door _really_ equally guilty? If the story was meant to explore the concept of moral gray areas it shouldn't have focused on extreme cases and instead focused on the everyday people who get marginalized by Christianity and it's effects on social politics. That would certainly justify the idea that heaven is too judgemental. By focusing on Charlie trying to "redeem sinners" it's only further reinforcing the social constructs it's aiming to deconstruct. She's also unilaterally applying her morals to all sinners which paints them all in the same light despite the fact that there is a difference.
Unless the idea is that Charlie's ambitions are meant to be a parody of Christ, but given the show seems to be unwilling to challenge her mindset, I'm not too sure that was the intent.
Aside from the dilemma that the Christian community has had for ages over deciding which parts of the language around hell are literal and which are metaphorical, one interesting thing I can note is that Jesus directly addressed this grey area of punishment versus crime. In the book of Luke, chapter 12, Jesus uses a parable (stories often using similes to parallel real truths) about a man’s household of servants. A servant who abuses his fellow workers is given capital punishment; another servant who abuses no one but knowingly defies instructions receives many lashings; and a servant who did not know precisely what he was assigned to do, but did inappropriate things regardless, receives very few lashings. This is presumably where many Christians derive the idea of “circles” or “layers” of hell. So whatever a sexually promiscuous but otherwise decent person faces in hell (which, in fact, is NOT because of their sexual immorality, but rather for not seeking relationship with the Messiah, their Creator), is never going to reach the levels of absolute punishment for those who do evil deeds toward others.
p.s. Edgeworth pfp is a chad move, much respect
@@marche800 That is a completely fair question to ask about hell. And, in short, my answer would be that the idea of everyone receiving equal punishment simply is a false assumption and not what the Bible teaches.
Let me back up that claim. For example, in Matthew 10:15, Jesus says “Truly I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment, than for that city.” In John 19:11 he says “…the one who handed Me over to you has the greater sin.” We can also look at the old Testament. Proverbs 6:16 says “There are six things the Lord hates, seven that are detestable to him….” And we can go back further to the Torah like Numbers 15:22-30 which lays out what to do in cases of unintentional sins vs. intentional ones.
Throughout the Bible, there are distinctions made between different sins. They are not all treated equally. They do not all receive equal judgment, as Jesus explains himself.
The word “sin” really just means a crime as defined by God rather than by a government authority. The fact that a number of actions are legally put under the category of “crime”, does not mean they are all equal. Many people might “go to jail”, but they will not have the same experience even if in the same place. Some might go to solitary confinement, for example, and not everyone will have to serve the same sentence. In a similar way, all sins are worthy of “going to hell”, but there’s no reason to assume that everyone has the same experience there or even that it’s static (unchanging).
Hope this explanation makes sense. Feel free to ask follow-up questions! Have a good one
@@marche800 The problem that i with hell is the Hazbin universe is that hell isn't a punishment, there's no flame, lashings or anything of the sort, it's just a place where bad people go to and that's it, nothing about the place in itself is really bad
@@guerreiroazul3230 seems the only punishment, is having a likelyhood of terrible neighbors, and anything those neighbors might do to harm you.
@@kylethomas9130 That's just a description of NY
"Everything is sh*t and we all suck."
-St. Paul (paraphrased, of course)
Hazbin Hotel (and Helluva Boss) takes me back to Panty and Stocking. A series with a unique art style but hypocritical views and religious taboos and blasphemy. Presbyterians are a subset of Protestants (if it's not Catholic or Orthodox it's Protestant). The only reason the Protestant church exists is because the Catholic Church was corrupt during Martin Luther's time. There's a line from Stephen King's Children of the Corn that states very clearly what offbrand Christianity is. The main character, Bert, holds up a bible and asks "are you changing all of it or only the parts that suit your needs?" Later he says, "any religion without love and compassion is false."
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
As a bible thumper myself that paraphrase there is hilarious!!!
The victim blaming for Angel Dust was unnecessary though. He’s a frustrating character but he shouldn’t be blamed for being in an abusive relationship
1:44:31… super weird comment girl
The story should've just left the whole "free will" thing out. It wasn't necessary, and would've at least somewhat vindicated Lucifer and made it easier to deal with potentially more complicated and interesting characters like Angel.
Angel is responsible for the decisions he makes AND he is also a victim of the decisions that Val makes. Both things can be true.
@@jazzandghostI actually do agree with that first part and I think Vivziepop straight up misunderstood the “free will” aspect in Paradise Lost which she’s clearly taking inspiration from. But your wording frames it like it’s his fault.
Angel Dust blaming himself doesn’t mean we as the audience are meant to blame him. The entire song (which I do despise for several reasons) is about him coping with that trauma, with self blame and degradation.
@@jazzandghostI agree with you on that take. I'm a former "adult movie" actor, think cheap European movies from the 90s. That was many years ago, 30 years in fact, and I was the one responsible for the situation I was in. I was asked what I thought about the character, that's why I know about this show. It wasn't a fun situation, and knew and lost many people because of this. I certainly don't want that lifestyle to appear attractive and fun for younger people. And it's deeper than that, as you can't never fix your life and yourself if you have a victim mindset, how can you fix something if you think you did nothing wrong ? It's not a good way to portray this situation.
Hate the show so glad this got in my recommendations
Then don't.
Love the show so pissed this got in my recommendations
@@TheUniqueen999 I like the show it's just wasted potential so it sucks
@@MeepMacArthurlll really shoulda specify
@@Memberinq I still hate it just I want it to be well though I have a very mixed feelings about this
I agree! They make Adam look like he is only bad one but not others like Alastor yes he is evil psychopath
but Vivzie makes him to look like he is like Dexter and also that he is mama's boy and anti hero
like the hell no way he is like Dexter anti hero and mama's boy maybe he is little mama's boy but not totally.
Cause in the show he doesn't act like mama's boy nor as anti hero nor as Dexter.
because adam is written from vivz ex and alastor is clearly man of her dreams lol
@@bbgrl-l1s
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
It'd be funnier if it wasn't so sad...
@@bbgrl-l1sI see self-inserts OC of Tumblr
@@sofiadominguezleon4106 i mean i LOVE alastor but like come on man he is so much Tumblr sexy man wannabe that it just can't be coincidence
if anything, I'd say Adam did a way better job at becoming a Dexter person than Alastor could ever be
Look, my problem with Charlie is that I don't understand her or Vaggie, there are people who say that "you didn't understand the character" but for me it's literal, I don't understand Charlie, to begin with what I understood is that Charlie wanted make his parents proud by proving that his father was wrong and that there was goodness in these beings and thus continue his mother's legacy of bringing prosperity, ok very good, but my problem is why do you create an establishment dedicated to a service that you do not Do you know if it is possible? No It's the same as you telling me that she had the hypothesis that it was possible and that she wanted to try it with Ángel Dust and Sir Pentius, and upon verifying that they did come up, then she would create the Hazbin hotel, we don't know how she came up with the idea either. That is to say, she read it in a story, she saw it in a movie, what was her thought process to arrive at the idea that redemption in hell is possible? Also, what parameters is she using to define who a person is a good person from a bad person?, just be nice to them?
Charlie is a she
@@justhereforfun5725 They might be using a translator tbh
This show feels like a Villainous ripoff
Whatever helps you cope pal
@@pjdixon6199 No, seriously. Think about it for a minute. Both shows have their role as good and bad switched (kinda). Sounds familiar, doesn't it? Plus, Vivzie has had a small history with Villainous.
it really does
I've heard that they share some animators
@Stratoblast Dont bother with them, they're not going to see from your side.
I have been to old for this cartoon even back when it was first on RUclips. So I had literally only watched the pilot once. But it didn't hit me back then that the Lesbian couples names are Charlie and Vaggie. A gender neutral but masculine leaning name. And one that sounds like female genitalia. This would have been clever. In the late 80s. Now it is like a brick to the face.
Also I judge "to old" not by age specifically. But instead by if the thing I am experiencing is new enough to me to be interesting. This show would have being interesting to me in 2012 and down right original to me in 2008. But I had seen or thought of things like this long before 2019.
I would say that doesn't mean you are too old, just you are very aware and the thing doesn't bring something new. When it comes to shows, you are almost never too old for it. I think it is more wisdom and possibly change of taste.
But yeah there is no subtly here for the imagination.
The reason she’s named vaggie is actually bc she was an angel (suprised) named by THE Adam himself. In the show he’s a womanizing POS. Hope that clears it up
Names are just names. They went with them because they sounded cool. They're not necessarily trying to make a statement but maybe Vaggie they are. Guys are named Dick
Charlie is bisexual so they will be called a sapphic couple and her actual name is Charlotte, but she prefers to be called Charlie.
Yes I’ve said it before Charlie is a bad mc
1:48:32 THANK YOU! SOMEBODY FINALLY GETS IT!
Hot take (based on general opinions): I dislikes Charlie the most. Vaggie annoys me the most. Sera, Lucifer and angels in high position are pathetic. Alastor doesn't impress nor intimidate me like the pilot and that let me down so much. Husk, Lute and Adam are tolerable and likable to me because one is level-headed, acts reasonable like an adult while I really enjoy the others' song and bashing on MC. The hell and heaven system is shit.
I agree with you. But about Alastor
they are totally the same I mean personalities.
Just in the show his intentions and act are more extended than in the pilot that's why.
I prefer so much more Al than Charlie 😂
@@Pomeranian690 Same about prefering Alastor. I just feel like the way he showcases himself in the show is more on "all bark no bite" side. Like I don't see the process of his evil doing that much nor threatening when every of his reputation is only tell not show.
@Bluegleam It's shown he is evil psychopath without redeeming qualities
but I agree it wasn't too much shown at the show
it's cause if Vivzie would do that all people would probably find out that and realize Alastor is evil psychopath with no redeeming qualities.
And Vivzie probably doesn't want that or I don't know
@@Pomeranian690 ok how about we don't use that word, let me be clear i'm not psychologist but psychopath sociopath is disorder and linked them to being evil is ableist. There are people who have this disorder they don't feel other human emotion like guilt sympathy empathy etc it didn't make them a monster. Their brain just have different way to work let me tell you something people who can feel sympathy empathy guilt remorse they are capable of being horrible person. I do agree he doesn't have any redeeming quality but please don't be ableist
@evanderzufarsetiawan2511 I'm not saying all psychopaths or sociopaths are evil and that are monsters I never saw them as monsters I only say Alastor is evil psychopath. And still I love this character.
Not to mention my boyfriend is evil and psychopath and I love him the way he is and I dont say he is a monster. So I don't judge people with psychopathy or sociopathy.
But still thanks to point it out but I know not all people with these conditions are evil and that aren't monsters ❤
In my personal opinion, Introducing Lucifer(at least in S1) Was the worst decision they could’ve made for Charlie’s character. Like all of the character moments Charlie could’ve had(like defeating or more like fighting with him head to head Adam)were all given to him. And that could’ve been the biggest sign of growth for her. And I also wish they kept Lucifer and Charlie making up saved for season 2. Especially since apparently Lilith won’t even be introduced yet. Another thing, for season 1 I wish they kept Lucifer be portrayed the same way he was in the pilot. At least for that season. Don’t think either are terrible characters, but there definitely could’ve been things handled better with writing and pacing.
Well. . . actually, Lucifer was never really in the pilot. Just some background portraits and a split second silhouetted background shot of him with no speaking lines whatsoever. Saying things like "how he was in the pilot" honestly doesn't make any sense. Because the audience knew next to nothing about what kind of character he was, people were just making assumptions about what he's like, and weren't happy when he didn't fit that long ingrained headcannon.
I also have to disagree with leaving Lucifer for season 2, because I feel the first two seasons would have been an appropriate amount of time for him and Charlie to work out their disagreements on sinners and redemption, and eventually come to an understanding at the end of a second season and become closer. Besides, in the show proper, Lucifer only shows up for a measly two episodes, so how is him being there in any way bad for Charlie's character? That really doesn't make any sense. If anything, the problem was the exact opposite, as he didn't show up nearly enough for us to see more of their differing ideas on redemption, see how they could have challenged each others viewpoints, and how they could have both been correct and incorrect about sinners in general, and both gain good character development from that. Then their reconciliation would have felt more rewarding and earned. I do feel they made Charlie too much in the right between her and Lucifer, especially since Lucifer would obviously know way more about sinners, Heaven and Hell than her. Being wrong about certain things and learning valuable lessons about people from her dad would have actually been good for her character development. And he could learn valuable lessons about people from her too, and also gain good development from that. Just some huge missed opportunities. (More Than Anything is still a gorgeous song though)
I also have to heavily disagree on the "Charlie should've been the one to fight Adam" thing, because keep in mind, while Charlie does have the potential to be very powerful, she has next to no fighting experience whatsoever, as she'd rather help and become friends with people, and only starts to get physical when sufficiently pushed, and even then she doesn't know how to actually fight. And she's clearly lived a sheltered and pampered life for living in Hell. If you actually pay attention to Charlie in the final fight, you can see she was mostly fighting defensively, not offensively. At least until Sir Pentious was "killed", and we all know how well that turned out for her. Especially since Adam has way more combat experience than her, she never would have stood a chance. Now compare that to Lucifer, who is way more powerful than Charlie, and has thousands of years of experience ahead of her, and the grudge he and Adam would have with each other for obvious reasons.(albeit, they didn't highlight that very well, which was a huge missed opportunity, as an Adam and Lucifer rivalry would have made so much more sense and been more plot relevant than the stupid, unfunny thing with him and Alastor that came out of nowhere and made no sense) And since Adam broke his end of the deal about Hellborns not getting hurt during the extermination (which again, I wish they had made that more clear when Lucifer showed up at the battle) It HAD to be Lucifer vs. Adam.
I also really hate how viewers seriously think an obviously inexperienced female character needing to be saved by someone stronger and more experienced than her, especially when that someone is a parental figure, is "detrimental" to her, or somehow makes her "weak". Especially so early in the show since all we have is a short 8 episode first season. It shouldn't even matter that it was a man who saved her. I just never liked that sentiment. Suddenly being able to fight and defeat someone who is obviously stronger is NOT what makes a female character "strong". Especially since this is a toxic sentiment I've been seeing more and more these days. And this doesn't just apply to Hazbin by the way. She should at least be given some time to gain more experience and learn to hold her own in a fight. If she still needs saving from bad situations on and on again as the show goes on, or Lucifer is continuously used as an easy fix for her problems, then I feel that criticism will become valid.
I'm really sorry that this was pretty long by the way.
@@priscillapineda3204 Thanks for the response, but I never said Charlie was “weak” I just said HER defeating Adam would’ve been a good sign of character growth since the two of them were often shown on opposing sides. On top of that, we’ve seen more of Charlie and Adam then of Lucifer and Adam. So it just would’ve been more rewarding to see. And I’m very much aware Lucifer had no speaking lines. I was referring to how he was portrayed. In a lot of the shots they show his shadow as this powerful figure(which is why a lot of fans thought he would be evil at first). And I don’t think it was a terrible Idea for him to be introduced story wise. I said it was BAD FOR CHARLIE’S CHARACTER. More so her development. Charlie is a very confusing character because they never clearly explain why she wants to do this. You could say it’s because of her father but he was directly opposed to the idea and was kept away from Charlie. She could’ve definitely been inspired by her mother, but who knows how keen Lilith was of the idea.
@@priscillapineda3204 Also a lot of the depth she was implied to have especially regarding her childhood, was kind thrown out the window when her and her dad made up in one episode. If you’re wondering what I’m referring to, I’m talking about the phone call Charlie had with her mom in the pilot and she says “Maybe dad was right about me” which maybe says Lucifer wasn’t entirely keen on Charlie’s ideas and was hard on her, which is why I said “he was different from the pilot” or at least how people thought he was. The revealed him to be a nurturing parent who’s just worried for his daughter’s safety. Which there is nothing wrong with. But I feel like it robs Charlie and Lucifer from having way more interesting characters and dynamics. I actually am EXTREMELY similar to Charlie. So it would’ve been nice if they didn’t make up in one episode, because seeing Charlie’s “daddy issues” or knowing she had them was really healing for me. And I am by no means calling the show bad, or calling the characters bad, or saying it should’ve changed or went another way. This is just my opinion and my projections and observations. Basically what I’m saying is that people thought Lucifer wouldn’t have agreed with Charlie’s plans because he was evil, not because he was concerned for her. And I’m not saying the characterization they gave him in the show as wrong, but I wish they handled it in a more fulfilling way and giving their dynamic more depth. Some of the depth they were implied to have in the pilot.
I disagree that wasn't that bad really. I mean...she did help fight Adam though. I mean he is the same from the pilot, he didn't believe in her at first.
@@Jdudec367 Can you elaborate? And if you’re referring to Lucifer when you said “he is the same from the pilot” note that I am talking about HOW PEOPLE(IN THE FANDOM)PERCEIVED LUCIFER. They thought Lucifer would be evil and more hard on Charlie based on some of Charlie’s dialogue and how they would always show him during the pilot as this mysterious power shadow(hence when he was towering over Charlie in the “Always Chasing Rainbows” song when Charlie says “Why have I always been a failure?” Also alluding to the fact that she has been told that from her father. And during the pilot it seemed to be a common theme with Charlie’s character about her “being a failure” and that honestly would’ve been a really good character detail if they had kept that up with Charlie in the show. Since a lot of people believe her character to be boring.
Star isn't inspiring, she's basically Hitler. She committed a genocide against magical creatures and most likely lead to massive human death when she violated earth so she could date her high school crush. She's the most selfish animated character of all time.
Yeah, hard to process any justification for that. Star sure didn't think it through
Exactly
@@kylethomas9130Well Charlie from hazbin isn't better.
Charlie is judging selfish hypocrite character too.
Charlie never ever listened to Vaggie only twice but that's all she is bad girlfriend to Vaggie and bad supporter
Vaggie has only Charlie and had a past she wasn't proud of and was worried about losing her
but instead of understanding Vaggie Charlie talked about herself to Alastor like it's her being betrayed by her girlfriend!
She even didn't give at least Vaggie space to let her explain it! Yes if she would be only hurted alright but how acted was totally out of her character
She even treated Vaggie as some kind of monster like she would be worse than all sinners Charlie was so cold at Vaggie
When said clodly about angelic weapons: If you would know that would you tell me? She acted like Vaggie would be her enemy and a monster
Yes they made it then but only cause of Rosie help and it doesn't change a fact how acted with Vaggie
She never ever protected Vaggie when others disrespected Vaggie only once she tried to protect at the end but that's all
she forces Vaggie in doing something she doesn't wanna do and if Vaggie does it it's only cause of Charlie but we can clearly see Vaggie sounded felt like she would be forced
It most of the time seems like Charlie takes an advantage of Vaggie to do something what Charlie wanna
Vaggie deserves better in my opinion
Charlie is worst person character the facts I said I'll not repeat it it's already in answers In why Chaggie is toxic
She made feel Angel dust like he wouldn't matter when was proud of Sir Pentious but seriously!?
Angel dust stayed for free room yes but he wanna redeem himself he just hides it or something like that but
Sir Pentious didn't wanna redemption at the first place before he wanted to betray them only!
She didn't understand and respect Angels discomfort when Charlie came to his job cause of idiotic hotel! She was arrogant
and even if ok she stayed but she wasn't quiet and was stupid enough to talk loudly to Travis about Hazbin
Yes she said sorry but only cause how Angel dust screamed to Charlie it's with kids too when you scream at them and they cry and say sorry but don't know why but say sorry cause are screamed on
And I know I'll repeat it again I'm sorry XD but she is toxic character
she has trouble emotionally understanding the motivations and problems of other characters.
- Self-reflection is missing, she only perceives her own one-sided view.
- Empathy is rather superficial, she does not understand deeper human emotions.
- Social interactions are difficult for her, she can't take a regard .
- The world is divided into black and white, there is no complexity.
even though she appears in the show as if she feels empathy like the pain of others but it's more superficial and it looks like she's focused on herself on her goal to change the demons end the extermination etc. Or about how others feel, for example sometimes Angel dust or sometimes mostly Vaggie and the other characters.
Charlie is present with a selfish desire to pursue her dream at any cost without truly understanding the needs of others.
Charlie is also selfish
It was selfish of her how in the song Ready for this cannibals they sang about killing and how they will eat angels and Charlie just with a judgmental expression:
ehh Well that's a little violent can we tone it down?
Like what? Yes Charlie is a princess but that doesn't mean she can control their thinking as she wants.
She was so judging than understanding.
they like to be what they want and Charlie sounds so stupid she sounded like she didn't know they were cannibals.
- The demons only sang about their natural nature as cannibals, which is their everyday reality.
- But Charlie wanted to dictate to them how to limit their speech according to her taste.
- At the same time, she clearly did not understand that for them, being a cannibal is their identity, which they are proud of.
- Her rebuke seemed arrogant and she didn't understand their situation
she is selfish some said she gives chances like she maybe gives a second chances but still make others feel not important did others how Angel felt?! Or Vaggie or Lucifer!?
She doesn't listen what others want or their needs they have some they just wanna be the way they are
- The fact that Charlie gives a second chance does not include her further actions and behavior and does not excuse her for the way she behaves.
- As I said, she still does not listen to the needs of others and makes them less important.
- She judges their true nature without understanding their situation, like as I said I'm Cannibal Town when Charlie started a war because Adam wanted to attack and the cannibals sang about how they would eat and kill angels. They were just happy and happy to be the way they are, but Charlie judged them:
Ehh that's a little violent can we tone it down? Ughh they are little murder right now. It sounded like she didn't even know they were cannibals like hello Charlie didn't she realize clearly that cannibals
would be murderous like this? (sorry but that was judgmental and toxic and selfish of her) she just wanted to direct them to suit her taste even though she is the princess she cannot control their behaviors or minds.
-Moreover, some said that Charlie is giving a second chance, but she didn't give a chance to Adam before Nifty stabbed him and why didn't she give Lucifer a chance from the beginning? She called him for help just because she needed something and she didn't even want to call him because she thought he didn't want to see her while he was struggling with his depression.
And then she judged him and said nonsense that: Why is Alastor here for me when my own father is not?) Like this was toxic selfish judgmental from her and she didn't give him a chance from the beginning.
Charlia's words about Alastor in contrast to her father Lucifer were unempathetic and over the top.
Even if she didn't know his true motives, she had no right to judge and compare him like that.
- Lucifer wanted to protect her from danger, even if Charlie didn't know it.
- He was struggling with his own problems and depression and it might have been too psychologically taxing to help her.
- Alastor is a manipulator, his help was with a selfish intention, which she didn't notice, but she still knows Alastor's personality a little
- She didn't take into account her father's emotional state and problems, she only focused on her own goals. (only then did she gave a chance to him, but she still judged him and didn't give him a chance at the beggining).
Her words were inappropriate and showed her lack of empathy towards her own family. It was really over the line and out of line.
She almost never apologized only some times but that's all
And she is really hypocrite
Alastor at the episodes 8 when was war between demons and angels exorcists and he protected hotel and main cast Adam hurted Al and Al disappeared but others didn't know it and thought he died
Charlie didn't cry or anything she was like in the mind: Wow sad
But when Sir Pentious protected them and died for them Charlie cried as a baby!! And even made portrait of him!
But what about Alastor?!!
Even if Alastor didn't protect them genuinely Charlie doesn't know it lol.
Some people say she is really so empathic HA! She even didn't cry about Alastor
Charlie and empathic?? It's rather superficial empathic!
She doesn't wanna help others cause of joy or something like that
She wanna help others cause she needs to or has to in order she would feel better about herself
Charlie is hypocrite toxic judging and selfish.
What do you mean genocide isn't inspirational?
@@rachelgardnerorray nobody cares you don't know anything about Charlie's character you are just a meat rider for the RUclipsr
Loser is not about being terrible.It's about suffering, Angel was abused by Valentino, his soul owned by him. When he returned back to the hotel, he puts on a mask, covering who he really is. Husk was saying, don't think your the ownly one, there are others like you and they completely understand.
@@MsHood1986 yeah another RUclips covered the song by itself and the true meaning of the song is like “boohoo you’re life is so hard, well tough love sweetheart, you’re not special in that regard . Everyone’s life is hard.”
For me, the whole song feels like it’s saying “Your life is shit, and nothing will change that, so just accept it. But hey, at least you have people to trauma-bond with!” I get that wasn’t the intention, but I don’t know how to interpret it any other way.
@@toastysweaters5692 and to be fair isn’t that the point of art that it can be interpreted in different ways. A certain work could mean something else to someone. For example Disney’s original Pete’s Dragon most people who watch see it as a corny film, for me I think Elliot the dragon is a supernatural element to aid kids in trauma kind of like Matilda’s telekinesis abilities in Matilda. To explain my point on Elliot we know that Pete was horribly abused by the Gogins and Elliot came and rescue him. He shadows him to both protect him from those who would harm him (like pushing the egg seller who kicked Pete) as well as trying to put a smile on his face (the tic tac toe in the cave, him copying Pete in town, messing around before completely disappearing, etc) he is only comfortable leaving Pete once he knew he was safe and in loving environment in order to save the next kid that was in trouble.
I could be reading the film too deep but that was my interpretation of it. So your interpretation of Loser could be as equally valid
This is a channel that deserves to blow up. I mean, two videos with such high (deserved) engagement, such top-tier editing, the lore of your personas, and the interactivity? RUclips partner material, right here.
If it's okay, can I share the channel? I have a Fandom account, and think you guys deserve more attention
Wow, thanks! To break character for a moment, yeah sure, I'd appreciate you sharing the channel!
Humans: *Eat the Fruit of Knowledge, thus creating Hell and damning all of creation to be eternally corrupted by Sin*
Lucifer: What can I say except "You're welcome", for the wonderful world that you know!
Lucifer morningstar, the first spoiled brat in history
@@elmascapo6588 My thoughts exactly.
@@christopherbravo1813 and he still has the gall to lie to his dauther and HIMSELF, that he gave humanity "free will".
I hust can't with this shit. No wonder adam wanted to kill himself in episode 8 if the angel's were this deep into nepotism.
I mean, ffs, they gave him a kingdom to rule and his "wife"billions of souls and creatures to enslave
@@elmascapo6588
"You were the perfection of wisdom and beauty. You were in Eden, the garden of God. Your clothing was adorned with every precious stone - red carnelian, chrysolite, white moonstone, beryl, onyx, jasper, sapphire, turquoise, and emerald - all beautifully crafted for you and set in the finest gold. They were given to you on the day you were created. I ordained and anointed you as the mighty angelic guardian. You had access to the holy mountain of God and walked among the stones of fire. You were blameless in all you did from the day you were created until the day evil was found in you. Your great wealth filled you with violence, and you sinned. So I banished you from the mountain of God. I expelled you, O mighty guardian, from your place among the stones of fire. Your heart was filled with pride because of all your beauty. You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor. So I threw you to the earth and exposed you to the curious gaze of kings. You defiled your sanctuaries with your many sins and your dishonest trade. So I brought fire from within you, and it consumed you. I let it burn you to ashes on the ground in the sight of all who were watching. All who knew you are appalled at your fate. You have come to a terrible end, and you are no more"
Heartbreak Hotel was indeed underwhelming. And I didn't even watch Episodes 7 and 8! It was sheer torture trying to get through each episode, I was checking the time every 5 minutes. Charlie's childish, schizo behaviour and inability to understand that others aren't exactly of a similar frame of mind to her get her all caught up in herself, and it drove me up the wall. Vaggie has no personality whatsoever and merely echoes her thoughts. Lucifer, originally the greatest of all angels - a deadbeat doomer dad, with a fetish for ducks and unwilling to assert his authority. And Lilith is calling the shots and left him to do goodness knows what. Alastor is a paper tiger, The 3 V's are forgettable, as is Nifty. Angel's potential was never fulfilled, Husk was there, and only Ser Pentious truly delivered. Adam was the greatest character. A ton of filler, the entire series was incredibly fast-paced, rushing back and forth like it had ADHD. And similar to what Reaper said in his critique of the show - Heartbreak Hotel is "safe edgy," it's using vulgar language, innuendo, gore and mockery of Christianity (which has been commonplace in cartoons for 20 years) to seem cool and out there, but is instead very sterile in its delivery and is more of a hindrance than a help.
I was NOT expecting the 50% off refrences but I am LIVING FOR IT
I’m a Christian and critiques like Hazbin hotel always baffles me. Like seriously she’s going to say all of hell is innocent like seriously you do know what kind of peoples of people end up to be here. Also as much as people like Angel as a character he was apparently in the mafia dude was not innocent at all. Charlie shouldn’t have been the main character because it takes away from the whole point of the show, you know redemption of a sinner!!!!!
Not to mention also Charlie should give redeeming plan and princess title to someone
else for example Rachel gardner from angels of death anime
she has trauma and little issues yes but is kind forgives and is understanding she would know they aren't innocent unlike Charlie which has weird view.
She shouldn't exist since also she has narcisstic disorder and I can say why if you're wondering of course
Anyone who isn't christian ends up in hell, so no there are innocents here and even those that aren't don't deserve an infinite punishment for finites crimes no matter how big these crimes are
@@grenouillesupreme eso es mentira. No por ser no ser cristiano terminas en el infierno
@@________4993 yes, non christians go to hell, that's the WHOLE POINT of christianity, that you need to be perfect to enter heaven but since everyone is a sinner no one can and we need jesus to pay for our sins so as soon as you're not christian you automatically go to hell, no you could try to make the argument that hell might not even exist in christianity since they make a big deal out of jesus's resurrection and that he said if you dom't follow him you die but if we assume hell exists then every non christian go to it
Those were actually metaphors of what they were trying to actually convey that people that sin aren’t what they seem to be, and sometimes winners cheat.
I’ve been looking forward to your next upload!! So hyped to watch this!
It’s annoying that the writers just kinda expected the audience to all have been following the non-show content (like the 2 comics and the instagram stuff) to know a bunch of stuff in the background that is supposed to make the story feel more fleshed out. Just makes everything feel even more half baked
It amazes me that people do not realize you cant believe in a biblical hell but not believe in a biblical God/heaven and how it works. One would not be there without the other. It seems like the creator doesnt believe in God, thinks its fake, but is a 12 y.o that loves the idea of hell. i want to add im not religious. I think shes afraid to talk about morality and bring up what people are doing is wrong because she doesnt want to offend anyone in her audience 😂
Love the ending of the video. Thank you. That’s what really annoyed me about the show.
Another problem with Hazbin Hotel I have is we never know if Adam ate the fruit or not if yes, Why is he in heaven cause last I read the story, Adam and Eve was banished out of Eden and why does he hates sinners when he and his new gal brought sin to the world? If no, how did sin enter their world cause if Adam didn't eat fruit, did he just off himself and Eve just magically spawn babies? Also I didn't hate Charlie, but I would have preferred if Charlie had some negative experiences to redeem sinners or suffered from extermination instead of having a princess who just pities her people cause she thinks her peeps are innocent as if Charlie doesn't know some people who oofed and went to hell are irredeemable. Speaking of redeemable, how do angels judge demons? For example Adam and Lute swear 24/7 in the show but in helluva boss, Keenie tells Collin not to use the Lord's name in vain and Collin himself gave Cletus the stare when he calls Lyle a shitty old man. So, how does heaven judge someone. Do they just stare at one good thing you do and ignore all your faults? In the show, Charlie felt like Linda Belcher, Star Butterfly, Marinette Dupain-Chang and Queen Poppy but more childish. True these characters can be stubborn and immature but at least they don't claim to know better than their obstacles e.g Poppy and her fellow trolls convince the bergens to accept their differences and tell them they can be happy unlike Charlie who would have forced it down their throats. And these characters I've listed have moments where they listen to their voice of reasoning partners but Charlie, everytime Vaggie says "Charlie, just don't", Charlie does the opposite, I think the worst of it, was in episode 6, Vaggie clearly doesn't want to go to heaven but Charlie forces her and this is a very negative trait in relationship that's regarded as cute. But I think my comment is too long so I'll end it here. Hope I'm not offending anyone.
I feel like instead of trying to rehabilitate people in hell they could have used purgatory as a sort of middle ground. it could have easily been written so that those who don't get sent right to heaven or hell are in a waiting room situation where depending on their actions they would be sent up or down. heck maybe write where Charlie dose try to rehabilitate sinners but see just how bad it is then sets her sights on purgatory so she can help them avoid the terrible fate she knows is waiting for them. Have the angels be a bit reluctant to receive help from her a demon but once she proves she wants to help they allow her to build a hotel to help people in purgatory. and make the villain her father so vivz' can get the daddy issues she seems to always crave in main characters where Lucifer doesn't like what Charlie is doing as he wants more people to come down and suffer. This can allow Charlie to see how sheltered her views are as she fights against her father to do what is right, his pride vs her morals. Make it where while Lucifer dose love and care for her his pride simply can't handle it how can his daughter the one he raised and spoiled and gave everything to betray him like this , oh the irony. over time tensions grow between them and in the end Charlie leaves her father in hell and is made into an angel and continues to help the people in purgatory.
everything about the show is bad, and that compounds upon itself very badly.
This is completely unrelated, but I love how people paint Lilith as a "girlboss" or "feminist" despite the evidence of her being Adam's wife is non-existent, but conveniently ignore the other part of her mythology where she's a serial grapist and an infant killer.
Ooof, i would fucking love it if we're introduced to her and she starts out as seemingly heroic, but later on she becomes more evil, it turns out shes basically like Mahito where she believes humans are inferior or morality is relative, something cool like that.
I would LOVE to see how people react to that.
good review but dear GOD use less clips from other media. It got tedious after 5 minutes
yeah i was gonna mention that too, it's very distracting honestly
Infinity Train > Hazbin Hotel.
We honestly could’ve had the other 4 seasons of Infinity Train released instead of Vivziepop’s terrible and asinine writing.
#finishInfinityTrain
Your mid show is never coming back, not even HBO Max liked it, that's why they kicked it off their platform
Charlie had a lot of potential but it seems to have been blown off... like every female character in the show (wtf is going on).
Her mum is trying to push her to perfection but i dont see her struggling that much with it. Her dad has been absent and she let it go so quickly. She gets pushed around a lot but somehow seems to be the master of her own emotions.
You can make interesting naive characters so im not sure how this happened
My main problem with Charlie is how naive she is like how she said you're wrong sinners make mistakes sure that's like saying Hitler did not commit mass genocide on countless of innocent people or that serial killers do not mean kill people they are just confused 😕like bruh.
That was whole point that Charlie is naïve. but if you ask me, Hitler probably died in a extermination many years ago
Tbf I'm fairly certain the Story of hell in the intro was actually just propaganda cause if you look carefully the book has the name "L. Morningstar" so either Lucifer or Lilith could've fabricated the story to make themselves look good or at the very least exaggerated some parts.
My beef with Hazbin Hotel is that it takes religious script and make it a joke. How more disrespectful can you get? And she clearly does not know the 'lore' that she build this world on. Hell is forever? No. People are there to be punished and purified of sin. And once they are punished for their wrong doing, they will go to Heaven. But the punishment is obviously severe and since the soul cannot be sick, there are no mental illness to fall back on. The dead are fully aware why they are in Hell.
Religious annoyances aside, I do enjoy good writing of hell and heaven. But modern writer are too stuck on heaven being secretly evil just because some monsters wear the cloth and claimed to represent God. Viv should really put those type of self righteous people in the show to show just how corrupt Pride can be. After all, the background IS the Pride Ring. But I don't see people whose greatest Sin is Pride there. I see people who made stupid decisions in life and paying for it in hell. I see people who had to make the hard call in life and STILL paying it in hell. If you want to write religion, at least make the Sinner truly sinful. Instead we have a mother who had to kill to keep her children safe. That is not sinful. At least not bad enough for her to be in Hell long enough to be the Overlord. There is no balance here. Like you have to be REALLY good to be in Heaven when we all know that even the best people did things they regret. But they pay it in life instead of in death.
And Heavenly characters are written like mindless sheep that only know how to follow and not question. Sure, Angels are made that way but even they sometimes wonder why God do things in a certain way but they have faith that it is for a reason beyond their understanding. Viv seems stuck on making anything heavenly as controlling and cold and corrupt. Especially with her representation of Adam. Why Adam? Why can't it be Cain? The obsession to flip the script is just plain disgusting. Why? Because this show is not for kids but kids will see cartoon characters and catchy songs and will latch onto that. The damages such story can have on the ignorant audience can be long reaching but no one is questioning that. It is insidious is what it is.
Ignoring star, many other characters were imperfect and not marry-sue like. Also Adam from hazbin hotel i wouldn't call a "villain", as he was more of just a blood thirsty jerk somewhat? Got cheated on by BOTH wives in this universe (irl lore just one, because he didn't want to be dominated in the bedroom activities, but the other one (eve) did betray him so...), lived good in life, so of course he should go to heaven.
I don't agree with the portrayal of him being a jerk, plus if anyone can just go to heaven regardless of what sin the comment, then what's the point of life or living "virtuously" when it is basically meaningless?
I’m gonna offer my take on sone legit criticism too. Charlie is supposed to be based on a Marionette doll but she doesn’t look much like one.
Oh, interesting! Do you know if that was supposed to represent something, like she was being controlled by someone else? Or just a random design choice?
@@jazzandghost , I’m not sure, I would guess design choice though. I never read anything about that Charlie was controlled but your question makes sense.
A doll??? I thought she was supposed to be a goat???? I don't see either in her design!
@@OneClassicalLass , Exactly, Charlie doesn’t look much like a doll, period. As far as goat, I don’t think that’s true, but Viv did mention goat hooves once, I personally thought that idea made no sense.
@@blaria95 I personally thought Sheep was hers.
1:52:34 - 1:53:05 - Replace "Charlie" with "Vivienne" and the whole thing starts to make sense.