Online Media Discourse Broke Me
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- Online Media Discourse Broke Me
From Steven Universe, to Sonic The Hedgehog, to Pokémon, a bunch of my favorite media has... remarkably turbulent-- so to speak-- fanbases, with tons of infighting and discourse. Earlier this month, I grew REALLY tired of it all. In this video, I share that experience, while explaining how I managed to get through it.
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#videoessay #sonicthehedgehog #pokemon #gaming #animation #stevenuniverse #review #opinion
i think what made me mad about the pokemon thing was that my enjoyment of pokemon was trying to catch all of them, but since they got rid of like 80% of the pokemon and said "hey, if you want to trade up your pokemon, 20 bucks a month or we delete your pokemon."
And that's-- completely fair!
As I said in the video, the last thing I wanna do is devalue people based on opinions.
Personally, while having the ability to transfer my faves is nice, I've always built a new team with the regional dex for each new game playthrough, so this doesn't affect my enjoyment that much, beyond mild post game stuff. While this does affect competitive play-- which I now partake in-- I'd honestly argue it's a net positive in that, since it means the meta is mote varied between each game and DLC. I've never personally been one to catch 'em all. I'm a battler through and through. So again, it doesn't really affect me that much. If anything, it makes the idea of completing the dex a while lot less daunting to me.
I'm not saying this to defend the games, but to share a different point of view. You absolutely have the right to be frustrated over the change. Just remember to be chill and respect about it! 👍
@@ashster_sunshine yeah, if i were a battler i dont think i would have cared.
also sorry if it seems like i was seeming angry, you should enjoy the games! just because the devs just changed their direction of the games doesnt mean no one should enjoy it because i dont like it! please enjoy pokemon even though i cant really do it with the new ones anymore.
Oh, nah! You didn't come off as angry at all! I got the picture. You're good, my dude! :D
Sane bro
Isn't it 16 bucks a year? Not $20 a month. I get that. It's a bit of a dick thing but bit of an exaggeration don't you think?
The reason all this discourse exists, is because we can't all get what we want. And we see people enjoying this other "wrong" version of the thing we like, and we realize companies see this, and it's encouraging them NOT to make what we like because look at all these people eating up what they just put out... OR you're on the other side and you want to defend the thing you like from those who are trying to make the company switch to what THEY like. It's a neverending battle...
Just look at Sonic as a perfect example, Sega has put out so many different takes on the world, characters and gameplay, we're at a point where really nobody in the fanbase even CAN be truly happy with what we get. Some piece of the puzzle is always going to feel off no matter what. Frontiers is quite emblematic of this, there's so much that game gets "right" and "wrong" and everyone's going to have different opinions on what those parts are. And it's frustrating as hell, which is why the discourse can get frankly MEAN. The only solution to this, unfortunately, is to simply distance oneself from the discourse... I mean, if it's going to bother you, anyway. Some people enjoy watching the world burn or whatever.
It's always what I like that gets shit on the most, though, so I'm just gonna try to ignore it and enjoy Sonic Superstars in peace...
You made a ton of good points here! I do think that when criticizing a lot of people should also take into account why people like it. (And also there’s a B point of identifying criticism of media doesn’t equal critiques of enjoyers of said media. Moreover critiques should just be about the media and not people who enjoy said media).
Heck yeah! Thanks! You worded it super well! Especially that B point. That idea has been hovering in my head, but your explanation managed to be more succinct than anything I could come up with xD
"This game is really important to me personally"
"I'm exhausted of people complaining about things that don't matter"
lmao
Yes, seeing people complain about a thing that's meaningful to you for reasons you can't relate to can indeed be very taxing. Especially when those complaints turn into arguments trying to prove your opinion's completely invalid.
This is ALL subjective. Idk if you watched the whole video, but I talked about it for like-- most of the second half
something related is that a lot of people on the internet keep trying to mask mockery as "criticism" so they look like they're in the right, and that anyone who disagrees with their opinion is toxic positive (another word people misuse)
it makes me afraid to talk about anything i like on the internet.
In today’s world, people often expect certain forms of media to be art. However, they often overlook the fundamental purpose of media, and that is to provide an enjoyable experience. Whether it’s video games, movies, comics, or TV shows, these creations aren’t universally appealing, and they’re not meant to be. That’s just the way society operates. If you don't share the same opinion as everyone else, you either hate it or are simply "different."
They also forget that most of this stuff is created by industries, and most industries don't care about personal opinions, they care about how profitable the object turns out to be
It’s become a problem of people take criticism as a final say so of not being able to enjoy it
The truth is Jimbo. X is full of people that just don’t want to have a conversation or discuss opinions. They want an echo chamber, they want to be surrounded by people that share the same opinion as them and will reinforce their way of thinking.
Talking to people about media on X is just a waste of time.
As a huge Mario fan, I completely understand how you feel. I got so tired of the negative online discourse surrounding many new Mario things like Joseph Anderson’s Mario Odyssey review and the god knows how many negative reviews on the Mario movie there are. I’m so tired of it too.
Orchard is a groomer btw
Yeah, I found out during editing. Made an intermission about it, even.
Yeah if I had known that ahead of time, I probably would've avoided giving her the attention. Either way, she still is a good example of how to not to make a review
@@ashster_sunshine She also wrote an MLP fanfic about Stockholm and Pro Child Predatory Behaviour. Not kidding...
@@thekeybladeninjaturtle7380she also sexually abused her sister when they were children
I could not have found a better video that summarises my problems with Discourse about popular things. It's not that criticism is invalid, because let's be honest, nothing is perfect. It's that people who criticise them either miss the point of what they're criticising or that they're being too harsh on them with little to no positivity. It doesn't help that most of them run over one to three hours long, which can get pretty boring. And man, is the Sonic community rife with this.
Aside from the two JebZone videos you brought up, there's also KotyTang. He made like 100 videos criticising the Sonic series, especially the IDW comics. I haven't watched any of his videos but they keep popping up on my recommended from time to time and I can't imagine how harsh they must be.
Also, despite what I assumed about him, I do not condone harassment of any kind towards him. I was just giving an example.
Cool video dude! I think you did a good job guiding the audience through your thought process! Thanks for the kind words and the shout out as well! Keep up the good work!
The YOU for the guidance, dude! Ur da GOAT! 👍
Are you the guy with that awesome archie Sonic video?
@Dark_KK he is
Dude it’s so true, I have a similar problem as well especially in the Spider-Man fandom
My favorite live action Spider-Man movie series is the MCU trilogy, yet, all I see r videos complaining about the movies talking about all the negatives and NEVER the positives,
“Tom is the weakest Spider-Man”
“Why Tom Holland is the worst Spider-Man”
“The MCU Spider-Man trilogy is the worst out of the 3, here’s why”
“Iron Boy. Jr”
“This is isn’t Spider-Man”
“Marvel doesn’t understand Spider-Man”
Like for the love of God, I GET IT, yall hate MCU Spider-Man, but even MORE people enjoy this Interpretation of the character, sometimes hardcore Spider-Man fans too, some people on twitter are literally using any kind of excuse to talk shit about MCU Spider-Man, even going as far as saying “cancel MCU Spider-Man” like wtf, and that was recently with the whole Sony rereleasing all the Spider-Man movies on theaters every Monday, I barely see any video essay being positive about the trilogy all I see is a bunch of slander, and what’s worse is that those videos and discourse are being listened to by Marvel like wtf
Oh my gosh, I so get where you’re coming from because I feel the exact same way.
Young people are so confusing. You didn't know you could like something despite other people saying it's bad? Lol. What a horrifying world to inhabit. Meant as light teasing, not being rude. You mentioned not knowing if you should like something a few times and I am genuinely confused. Maybe it's my autism though. I grew up proudly watching Powerpuff Girls and Totally Spies despite getting a lot of shit for watching them and being a boy, I didn't really get it then either though. It's really funny watching a bully fizzle out because you just literally don't understand the insult they're making. Like yeah, I like well made TV? You should watch them bro. I hope you've come to terms with liking what you like, and disliking what you dislike.
I did appreciate the thoughtful approach to looking at "how" someone is criticizing something, I think a lot of people could learn from that. It's completely valid to dislike something, it's fucked up to chase down every conversation and scream about how much you hate the thing and how bad they are for enjoying it.
In theory, I know that it shouldn't matter. Growing up online, it's hard to not to gain a skewed perspective on that kinda stuff. When reviews making fun of a piece of media for being "bad" are some of my most formative memories-- even if I understand that conceptually, you can enjoy about anything without worrying-- a part of me still feels insecure about liking "bad media". As a reviewer, I also wanna be fair to the media I talk about, so I don't wanna be a hypocrite about this stuff either.
Even as you pointed out-- both of your examples-- especially Powerpuff Girls-- for as kiddy and girly as they are, are widely considered good television.
Might be my insecurity showing, but having someone tear down thing you like a lot, not by calling it cringe, but with "facts and logic" that "prove" the thing you like os "objectively" bad hurts, man.
This is a feeling (though not as complex as your explanation) I sort of feel every now and then. Used to a lot a couple years ago. And this is the first video I found to describe properly.
At the end of day I try to keep an open mind about anything, but at same not stress myself out if my opinion on something, even with repeat exposure and reevaluation, doesn’t line up with the majority or a certain group’s viewpoints. I’m far from any type of contrarian, but there have been plenty of times where I find things ‘just okay’ or I have the opposite opinion of what’s considered ‘acceptable’.
Also I wouldn’t stress myself that much about what you should or shouldn’t think at this point. Fandom has evolved to where people will grill you or beat with sticks relentlessy if you don’t go along with whatever they say or feel like shit for feeling opposite. And opinions on stuff seem to never change or swap on a dime nowadays.
Going back to Sonic since you mentioned it, if someone told past me that fifteen-ish years later that Colors and Unleashed would have the exact opposite reception online I would probably slap them.
Yahh the sonic community acts like that 80% of times
The pokemon sword and shield/Bdsp stuff has quite literally taken my ability to enjoy things, or more accurately put a cap on it
If you enjoy catching them all, that's totally fair! In an ideal world, we could've kept getting all the mons indefinitely.
U got my sympathy, homie!
Though catching them all has never personally been why I like playing the games. So it isn't as big of a deal to me.
It's a compromise. It's sad that it's gonna affect some people more than others. But that's life, I suppose :/
@@ashster_sunshine it was more transferring but yeah
I think it's pretty cool that you were able to admit here what parts of this bother you and that it's best to just understand that different people have different perspectives.
Criticism of things you like is sometimes hard to swallow. Sometimes, for a critic, it's hard to understand why so many people like something so much. There's a lack of relatability from every side of this.
I have problems with a lot of individual statements you make in this video, but I appreciate that after most of those moments, you come back around and remind yourself that maybe you're just letting your feelings get the better of you.
I believe it's incredibly important that we not only have critics, but we have tough ones. That doesn't mean we shouldn't have people just recommending games they like too. It's not that one is better than another. I think the truth of a matter is more "important" on some level than just what people think of things, BUT the fact some people enjoy media that isn't objectively amazing is also part of that "truth". There will be positive and negative reviews of every extreme for a game as high-profile as Sonic or Pokemon, and all of that is useful. The only really harmful thing is when people are just lying, which I think is the real problem here.
Sometimes people do just want to make people mad. Sometimes it is just about the views or engagement. I just don't think that's very prevalent, to be honest. Even that Stephen Universe video, ignoring how horrible the creator of it may be (I don't know enough to comment on that), definitely had a purpose beyond just tearing down something people like. It's a perspective that someone felt like sharing. Tearing the people who enjoy the show down is a bad thing, but tearing the show down, if you honestly believe it's not as good as people think it is, is totally fair. Just be willing to accept that others will argue back against you. The same applies to positive coverage of something. I don't mind if you like Pokemon Scarlet and Violet, but if you assert that as the correct opinion to have or as an objective fact, people will challenge you on that. How you respond to this depends on you. If it's not healthy for you to engage with that type of criticism, that's fine. Just do your best.
I don't really know what my point is here.
I just liked the video even though it kept making me mad lol.
Thanks! Yeah-- a lot of what I discuss here is really subjective. Tbh, as I was editing and even after releasing it, I kept wanting to roll back and reword things I said, cuz my perspective on this is still kinda shifting.
This video's kinda just me expressing what I was feeling at the time of recording. Independently of how wrong or right the critics are, I got exhausted. I was letting it out.
I never really wanted to tear down any particular opinion. I was just tryinnna make sense of it all, and having a hard time with it. So please don't take this as an attack or even necessarily an active disagreement with anyone in particular.
You mentioned the importance of both harsh critics and fans recommending stuff they like, but I think part of the problem is how blurred the line between these two is nowadays. Thanks to how the internet works, and the culture around it. There's barely a difference between criticism and appreciation. It's all sorta in the same fandom space. I think I've been having trouble dealing with the critics at times I just wanna share appreciation alongside fans. There's a time and a place, basically. At least, I think there should be lol
I think anything resembling that supposed "truth" about any work will never come from one single review or opinion, but from a mixture of authorial intent and-- most importantly-- consensus. Most people can agree Superman 64 is a bad game, so in most situations it's safe and "correct" to call it a bad game. The more people are divided on something the harder it is to pin that down.
With the Steven Universe video specifically, I honestly think could've made my point better, cuz that actively makes some serious accusations on its fans as a whole and, especially, its creators. Aside from the controversial "thesis" it has and the fact it's just poorly written, that's just a step too far for me. And I think I kinda brushed it off a bit in the actual vid.
It's funny that, even though you liked the vid, it made you mad at points. It's exactly the conclusion the video itself came to XD
Just like me watching Jeb's Sonic Frontiers video, it was uncomfortable to watch, thanks to all the disagreements, but it still was worth it in the end. I think it's best that we just accept that's part of the ride. Be ready to see different opinions who you disagree with, while being aware that they'll make you uncomfortable. And of course, go into that with the right mindset. If you're not in the mood for going through that discomfort, go use your free entertainment time for actual entertainment instead. Again, time and place.
i hate twitter
Im tired of the landscape too…
BREAKING NEWS: People have different opinion on subjective things. Critique is a good thing, its not because you like something that others can't find it bad. Pokemon for example is the most mid franchise ever in my opinion (always the same rushed mess). You can like the games, but people can critique the MANY flaws that the games have. By the way, the """negativity""" of Pokemon games didn't start at Pokemon Sword and shield, its been a while since people started to complain (Sun and Moon is a good example). Maybe in the end, the real problem is that you use Twitter lmao.
Hey dude, chill out.
Of course people have different opinions on this. It's how they communicate them online that's the problem. Yeah, exactly-- the problem is that I'm on Twitter-- and RUclips, really. I have my own reasons to use them, and have gained a lot of good memories from that. It's just annoyig to be a round a fandom space where people will judge you based on your-- as you said-- different opinion on a subjective thing.
Also, yeah-- "current Pokémon is bad" is an argument that has existed since the dawn of time. You can't deny the it didn't get SO much worse since the Switch games
@@ashster_sunshine People will always judge, that's part of what humanity is. Why do you care so much ? Expressing opinions is one of the main thing we got on the internet lmao
There will always be people who disagree with your opinion and that's not a problem.
For the pokemon case, yeah its not much worst but its still mid.
Its like recent sonic games (before frontier), its bad game after bad game but that doesn't escuse it and people have the right to complain as much as other have the right to like the game.
If you can't live with that, internet is maybe not the place for you.
@Wapako Criticism isn't bad. Heck, I was one of the people complaining about Sonic pre-Frontiers.
Shit's draining tho. The whole point of the video is figuring out how to deal with that. Dija even watch it to the end? What you're saying is literally what I said at the end of the video. Learning to deal with different opinions. Understanding people will disagree with you is different from being at peace with it; especially in the internet where people can be such jerks about it with no repercussion
@@ashster_sunshine Ngl, I watched 10 minutes but it was not very interesting imo
Its kinda easy to deal with it cuz that's just opinions, let them be or debate with them.
Its cool to hear we have common ground tho
Lmao different strokes got different folks I guess 🤣
It comes to bias as well people like to overanalyze Sonic and Pokemon games but It'll be Mario and Zelda.and they wouldn't overanalyze those games like that would with Sonic and Pokemon.
“I-it’s not that criticism is invalid, I just don’t ever want to hear it about the things I like because it doesn’t personally affect me… yet!” *licks the boot harder*
Eh? If you wanna take it that way, sure.
I spend the whole video tryinna understand all perspectives and not trying to be an ignorant bootlicker.
It's a feelings thing. The repetitive discourse is exhausting. Good or not. It's not about whether I agree or disagree with it. It's about being tired of the current landscape of things.
You have a Fire Emblem profile pic. I'm sure you're aware of people arguing over Three Houses lords, or over the visual novel elements in the newer games. No one hates FE more than FE fans, as they say. Don't you ever get tired of that? Don't you ever just wanna ENJOY a videogame? If not, can you at least understand the people who do?
Better yet, okay; you don't like a game. Wouldn't you want to be able to say that you don't without causing a flame war or getting called names? This goes both ways
@@ashster_sunshine ok, maybe I prejudged you. I’ve seen many like you who claim to be “tired of discourse” when it turns out they just don’t like a franchise they’ve been loyal to getting criticized. The debate is always “stupid” or “meaningless” but will then flip when the corpos suddenly come for an aspect they enjoy., then they’ll act like they were always critical. I’ve seen it with Star Wars, I’ve seen it with Pokémon, I’ve seen it with Fire Emblem, and I’ll inevitably see it with other franchises I love. Probably Sonic is next.
I do apologize for prejudging you, because I kinda have proven your point. I am tired of the constant discourse.
As for the 3H lord thing, I’m actually fine with it. I’m glad a game was well-written enough, especially by this franchise’s current standards, that it’s incited a debate about the setting. Sure, people need to really research what a “systemic issue” is, but overall, I’m glad people are discussing the internal politics of a game, rather than whether it had a good plot.
@@ashster_sunshineYknow, that type of situation can pretty much apply to the Persona community when it comes to fighting each other. Or atleast the worst side of it. And that's not even getting into the smt vs persona debates it's died down significantly after smt v released but it still exists.
10:00 Lilly Orchard is just a mouth piece strapped to a microphone.
That aside why should our judgment be based on whether or not others think the game is objectively bad, video games are a form of art, and no I'm not saying you shouldn't have an opinion, but don't ruin fun for others, we also shouldn't let society form our own opinions for us, we should self willingly form our own opinions without society having to think for us, because they think they're hot shots.
I'm going to say the same thing another user mentioned. You say that the game (Sonic Frontiers) is very important to you personally, but after a while you say that these people complain about stuff that doesn't matter. You just contradicted yourself. The stuff you think doesn't matter is actually important for them in a personal way, just like your feelings on the game.
Eh? I suppose?
I agree it's very subjective. This video's not at all meant to be an objective analysis of the whole thing. It's me expressing what I felt.
Also, I literally talk about what you're saying IN the video. I was worried I'd be a hypocritite for assuming some issues don't affect different people differently.
The whole conclusion is basically accepting that some things work for some people and don't work for others. That doesn't mean anyone is wrong for enjoying it or not enjoying it. People are wrong to be a-holes about it, though. But that's life. That doesn't invalidate anyone else's opinions.
Now if you ask me-- as in-- how I feel about Sonic Frontiers. I would indeed say that, to me, a lotta the things folks complain about are easy enough to ignore. Making it so the feel like nitpicks to me. While I do have white a few issues with Frontiers, I REALLY loved the good things that were there regardless.
unrelated and i don’t wanna be creepy but i think you look pretty good. i clicked on the video and i was surprised.
Ayo, Thanks! Appreciated! :D
twitter sonic fandom try not to YAP challenge
In my opinion, the best Pokémon games are never official games. They're all fan-made.
Os melhores games vêm dos fãs.
I like Uranium, but haven't played that many Pokémon fangames besides it. Been playing tons of difficulty hacks, though. Those are great!
....🇧🇷👀?
@@ashster_sunshine
Difficulty hacks are indeed awesome.
...não sou. Sou colombiano.
@AristizabalixGrimm lezgooo fellow Latin American 🤝
Let things in from one ear and out of the other ear
Bro your room looks ai generated
I assure you it's not LMAO 🤣
Shave your head
no matter what you say or do he will not become micheal from Vsauce it is not his destiny.
I'd need a pair of glasses and a beard, too lmao