Brings back nightmares of running emergency no heat service calls in the middle of the night in a snow storm. Then I wake up and realize I'm retired and in south Florida for the winter. These are great videos !
@@PipeDoctor yeppers definitely brings back memories.. ha! i did it in the 90s.. here in ohio not too many boilers.. mostly gas forced air in basements, crawl spaces, or attics.. I knew if the wind started howling I was gonna get a lot of no heat calls.. most of them were re-lighting pilots cleaning and adjusting valves / replacing thermocouples.. gosh if only I had a Testo 320 back in those days!!! then I got into commercial.. so instead of being in a cold dry basement id end up on a roof of a restarunt servicing a package unit.. ha! company figured out i was good at computers so I got a cushy job getting certified on all things DDC (mid 90s).. now im in telecom..people call me that their phones dont work.. I sit in my warm house and log in with a laptop LOL.. keep doin it man.. you got the goods there! KUDOS
Ha ha , I’ve been retired 7 years as a gas utility co.service tech. I still get calls at all hours in winter. People just don’t get it that I’m not interested in working any more on the crap out there after their neighbor really screwed it up.
@@natgasf4097 ha! or they *say* its the "friend" or neighbor when come-on its usually been some DIY they didnt want to admit to you know when homeowner picks up a tool bag and hides it right as you walk in that he has been screwin it up
Customers that attempt to fix things themselves, usually do so after a dozen of their phone calls to professionals go unanswered or ignored. It is nice to see that there are places where a service company will actually show up.
@@walterbordett2023 - no a “free courtesy visit” is the way to handle that, it was Mike who forgot not the customer. But Mike is the one who will properly tag, can’t expect a customer to know what’s what.
Mikey Pipes! Another great video! A little on thermocouples: Thermocouples work due to a thermoelectric effect that occurs when two dissimilar metals are connected and the connection joint is heated. Most likely the thermocouple in this gas appliances is a copper - constantan type T thermocouple but I am not really sure right now. The outer wire is in the form of a copper tube and inside the tube is an insulation layer covering a solid wire (most likely constantan material in this case). The end of the thermocouple in the fire is where the wires are welded together. This wire arrangement is like a coaxial cable TV cable. When the pilot is lit it heats the welded end of the thermocouple and a small voltage is produced. (around 10-30 mV depending upon the flame temperature). This voltage is enough to energize the solenoid coil in the gas valve just enough to keep it open and maintain the pilot light gas flow when the gas appliance main valve is off. This is why you need to hold the valve pilot button down long enough so you can give the thermocouple enough time to heat up and increase its voltage output to produce just enough voltage to keep the pilot solenoid open. Now imagine you were in a spaceship travelling to Mars or some other distant planet. You need power on the trip to call home once a day to check in with the Mrs. And see how the kids are doing. On a long trip your batteries won’t last very long…and you are too far from the sun for those solar panels to work….so what to do? Use a nuclear reactor! Believe it or not, you can make power by using arrays of thermocouples surrounding a long lasting radioactive Plutonium 238 source. The Plutonium decays naturally causing a heat-up of the thermocouples and a voltage is produced - now you can call home! Yes the very same principle used to open your gas valve on your gas appliance at home is used to power spacecraft in distant places where batteries and solar cells no longer can function.
Michael nailed it. The thermocouple has no liquid in it. It's just 2 dis-similar metals joined at the 'bulb' that gets heated by the pilot flame that creates voltage to energize the electro-magnet that holds the pilot valve open. I pulled the magnet assembly out of a hot water tank gas valve to test thermocouples under a 'load'. Sometimes they will read OK on a meter when not connected to anything, but under a load they wont produce enough voltage to power the magnet to keep the pilot on.Generally 15mv is minimum to keep the pilot on. Keep doing what you do Mikey Pipes!
@@PipeDoctor I have bought cheap thermocouples - from Walmart of all places - and they are still in service going on ten years or so. The tips on the thermocouple can corrode from the constant high temperature they experience in normal operation. Then the weld between the dissimilar metals weakens or breaks, and no or too little voltage is produced. At least that appears to be how the thermocouples (only a handful, I am not a plumber or HVAC tech) failed that I’ve replaced.
I used to be an auto mechanic for dealerships, one thing I can say a lot of people try to fixit themselves, only to screw things up. So when it is towed in and you magically get it fixed, it makes you look like a genius, cut the people some slack, you never learn anything if you don't try, and most people are ashamed to admit that they messed it up because they will be ridiculed.
Very true. Sometimes you gotta try something and mess up so you can learn something and do it right. Thomas Edison once said about making the lightbulb “I have not failed. I’ve just found 10,000 ways that won’t work.” The biggest thing is learning something and not repeating the same mistakes. Eventually you get to the point where you know when you are in over your head and ask for help.
Ive been plumber for about half my life now, i enjoy watching these things. Im from europe, the netherlands myself. the technique is so antique. but still very similar to the most modern of boilers. the information you get out of this valuable for all plumbers! nice work
I was thinking the same thing haha. My suspicion was confirmed when the customer quoted the 25 millivolt spec. Mikey pipes was a true professional, though and didn't let it phase him.
I appreciate how respectful you are to customers,even in situations like this.i do the the same,good job. You are have have more knowledge than most techs.
Thermocouples are two dissimilar metals that when heated produce an electrical current. I start at R & C, leave one Probe on C and work my way towards the thermostat and then back to the gas valve. That will help you find where you are losing the call for heat. Just a tip that helped me in the past maybe it'll help you as well.
You can steal a pilotstat (magnetic plunger the thermocouple hold in) out of a gas valve your trashing and throw it in your tool bag as a tester. Thread the thermocouple into it and squeeze the pilotstat. You have visible proof if the thermocouple is good or not.. quick easy tester
I ran a no cooling new refrigerator call back 25 years ago. The cust wanted to save the cost of having a tech install a water supply kit for an icemaker so she had a handy neighbor hook one up. When I took the back off I saw why the refrigerator wasn't cooling. The handy neighbor had hooked a self piercing saddle valve on the suction side of the refrigerant line. Yeah, and voided warranty to boot. She saved 30 bucks and trashed a brand new unit.
That's funny,I did furnace for a guy that just had a pool heater installed.They tied the new gas line into the old galvanized water pipe,guess what happened when the turned it alk back on! New water heater,new furnace ( the other one was,2 weeks old) new has stove, new gas fireplace and they replaced the brand new pool heater.Unbelievable!
@@tycobb8621 because they were all brand new,and had water run through them,if you had water coming out of the burners of your brand new stove,or your water heater,would you not want it replaced do to their incomplete!
The old, "I had my friend here"...sure buddy! When the homeowner draws attention to a loose wire and says that it was like that when it was working. Sure buddy! If the guy was just honest from the beginning, this issue could have been solved in 2 minutes. Simple as, "Gee, I was desparate to get this thing running, I took off this wire but don't remember where from.
This is not just only in plumbing, 20 years im electrician and TV serviceman in central europe and it is the same thing. So first rule of well done job is: Never trust your customer. They always lie to you.
Neighbor did something but we didn't talk about it - you know, he just does DIY stuff around my house. .....I think thermocouple minimum voltage is 25mv - don't remember where I heard that...just a guess.
Good work, figured that one out in about 5 seconds, see it often especially when people don’t know what they’re doing mess with the commons. It won’t provide a signal back for that gas valve.
Whenever my co-workers "check" an expansion tank by tapping I ask them to back it up by $5. I will then pull out a pocket pressure gauge and check it (after dumping the pressure in the system). I win more than I lose. A full tank will still give a hollow tapping sound, other times the tank will have low pressure. If it is low just change it out, you can pump it back up but chances are you will be back in a few weeks. Great job on the troubleshoot and video.
I enjoy watching your videos. If I ever needed a plumber I would be definitely be calling you. I no longer live on the South Shore of Nassau. Just recently moved Upstate. It’s good to have this connection back to my Hometown roots. Keep making tour videos.
Nice video like always. A few years ago I had the same problem with the thermo coupling.friend suggested to replace it.i took coupling to Loews,I bumped into a plumber there.he suggested to clean the coupling lightly with fine sandpaper to remove the soot that was on.i did exactly what he said.its been about 3 years & no more thermo coupling issues again.
Superb job! The millivolts was in range when you measured if I remember correctly but still was malfunctioning! Well done. I don't work on hydronics but still very interesting.
24V AC is sent through the flame rod into the flame, AC current is rectified to a DC current through the process of flame rectification. The DC microamps flows back to the gas valve through the pilot tube (ground)
I used to work with these guys who would do almost everything themselves. When I told someone I was getting a new furnace, he asked me why not install it myself. Why? Ka-boom!! That's why!
Watching some older videos beings you are on vacation. And also, thanks so much for the "Mikey Pipes" stickers. If I lived near SL, I would put one on his back bumper! 🤣
First of all welcome back hope you enjoyed your vacation. I have been forwarding your videos to some of our young tech’s. Good troubleshooting techniques. Will definitely help out. Keep up the quality work.
Thermocouples generate current by friction of dissimilar metals, and have no fluid or refrigerant in them. He looks to be a victim of silly sabotage. Sometimes when it comes to friends, who needs enemies. LOL
I found it interesting also how he refered to the thermocouple as having fluid in it. However first thermocouples genterate a current frm disimmiler metals being fused together and heated to produce higher outputs. Next the test performed will not give an acurate diagnosis as only OCV ( open circuit voltage will be measured, the proper way to test thermocouple output is with a test connector installed in the circuit so the thermocouple can be checked under load. In regards to "fluid" the poster appears to be confusing a mercury flame sensor switch that was used in intermittent pilot applications before the electronic flame sensing circuits became the standard control.
@@jamz4351 well he didn’t simplify, just gave wrong info. But . . . . . I though the same thing. Besides, having to explains things while diagnosis can be a hassle.
I have used the Watts hot water recirculating system to stop freezing pipes. Because the “not so hot” hot water gets sent back through the cold water pipe, the water is kept moving as temperature of the hot water drops - and the cold pipe gets some warmth from that not so hot water flowing in it back to the cold supply.
I would have pulled out the entire pilot assembly and cleaned it to ensure that the orifice was not partially obstructed or that there was no carbine build up on the pilot assembly. Adjusted the pilot flame if necessary to ensure the top of the thermocouple is being submersed in the flame. then you can test the thermocoupling miilivoltage. Good job on noticing the common was off.
Love the content. I am a new sub. I am also from LI, although I am from central Suffolk. I was thinking of getting into the trade, but my blindness/visual impairment would obviously prevent that. I have a career path I am going down though. what got me interested in the plumbing and HVAC field in the first place was that I have some family members in it and I started searching youtube when I was younger to see what everything was all about. Thanks for the great content Mike, keep it up!
Thermocouple is two dissimilar metals welded together which is what creates the 15-30mV its not a fluid, That would be in some thing like an oven FSD or mechanical thermostat
Used to go on rural power out calls during blizzards. We would meet up with a County V Plow who would bust the way to the farm building site. It was fun when i was young.
Fluid in the thermocouple?I think you are thinking of a hydraulic pilot or mercury type pilot safety with the 3 prong plug into the gas valve.You have to be careful with those because if that thin tube breaks,you will have a mercury spill.
7:49 I thought the thermocouple produced a voltage when two different metals (typically Chromel and Alumel) were heated. That's how jet engines measure EGT (exhaust gas temperature)
There was a problem first then the homeowner decide to try and change the thermocouple causing a second problem Then called for help. your job mr Phelps is to find all the problems I liked watching from my living room. They all give up and call for help at 5 pm.
The pipe doctor is the master but what the hell are you talking about, a fluid in the thermocouple? I've never heard of that. It's just 2 dissimilar metals heating up and creating a current between them
@@airmech5083 maybe he knows a guy, but he messed that one up himself, notice there was only one set of foot prints in the snow when the repairman left. I do all of my own house work, but when it comes to friends, I rarely help, I don't want to open myself up to liability.
Coming from the other side of the blue ball, is there no pre or post purge on these burners? Where I’m from it’s mandatory. We also don’t run pilot flames, it’s electronic ignition.
Hello pipe doctor I’m from Huntington Sta, I love to watch your videos I’ve learned a lot from you, I’m an hvac tech having an issue with a Navien ncb 240 error code eo12 I cleaned intake filter, checked manifold gas pressure on high fire was 4.8wc, checked for ground, blockage intake and exhaust, combustion analysis , everything looks good but still pulling the same error every other day do you know what I’m missing from your experience before I call Navien support? Thanks for sharing your experience great jobs
I wish my furnace had been something easy like that, I spent 2 hours to diagnose that the secondary heat exchanger was corroded through, as well as blocked. I was hoping for a igniter or a roll out sensor or something. I ended up installing a new furnace, as the price for a new secondary was more than a new furnace.
Very cool how you took the time to explain, some homeowners are genuinely interested in your craft. I'm in Seaford NY, perhaps I can call on you for service in the future.
There is no fluid in that line it's a bare wire. The type of copper wire is called pyrotechnics look it up. There is two dissimilar metals being heated which produces a voltage. They have unloaded and loaded volts. Loaded is best but you need adapter for the valve . Your fluck meter temp prob that little silver spec on the end .
Unfortunately my neighbor knows I'm a retired HVAC mechanic. If I remember correctly, the last thermocoupler I tested on a Rite boiler put out about 80 mv.
There is no fluid in the coupler it should 30 mill it works with a different medal reaction when heated the 3/8 should be in the flame production of the voltage holds down a magnetic contact in the gas valve
Hay don't get that way u know we have boilers in michigan infact at one time more boilers were produced in Michigan Than any other state All I was saying your dissertation on how a thermo couple work was wrong and its no big deal but it was infact incorrect there is no fluid there is no cap tube and it does produce between 30 and 70 mill volts that hold a magnetic contact down I loved your videos and Steve is one hard working guy .I dont know if you ever work a oil burner but it does separate the men from boys .Oil burner work can go sideways in a New York min . Sorry things got to tough start . In these videos I find its best not to say any thing unless you know for a fact its right .Thanks again Paul
The delay you mentioned on that gas valve is by design. Both Honeywell and White Rogers had gas valves that were slow open valves. These were generally on large btu gravity vent systems. The “ slow opening” valves help reduce roll out and tripping roll out switches. I’ve been a gas fitter and in the trade for 46 years. Too old and stubborn to retire, maybe I’ll join your 26% club. 🇨🇦
@@PipeDoctor Glad you know. Not everyone does. Glad to see your a fan of Navien. I’ve been putting them in for about seven or eight years . Have you tried IBC wall boilers. Another good product and a good price point. I enjoy you videos and I did subscribe👍🇨🇦
I'm finding a lot of spill switches on flue collectors of steam boilers tripping. Why is that? Chimneys are not back drafting after the switch is reset and the boiler is run.
@@kenc.9067 not really sure about that could be down drafting after prolonged run time. I have seen were the draft spill switch is tripped and have reset it and checked operation. Everything appears ok and have left the job. Get called back the next day and find it tripped again. Turns out the boiler room door is open both times I arrive but that it is closed any other time. Unit on a long run is lacking oxygen to burn and down drafts and trips the switch. Installed transfer grilles in the door. Problem solved.
that burnham furnace wasn't too grossly dusty.... i looked up the miliamps for my own knowledge for a thermocouple and you were right it was low at 20. it's supposed to be 25-35 according to google... nice job.. lol.. my buddy has a few manuals...lol
Gotta love when people call you and say the furnace won't run and you get there it's a boiler! F--king drives me crazy,when you brainstorming on the way,you think you have mentally prepared and wham!
you should have a gas valve tester for testing you gas valve and millivolts draw on you gas valve to make sure it is working right, but everything other then that looks good, because at that point you are guess at that point, just like what you say "if you dont test you are guessing"
Open read of 27mv is good. Less then 12mv under load with a thermocouple adapter gas valve under load bad thermocouple Drop out pilot safety bleeds more then 180 seconds and doesn’t shut off change valve
what kind of thermocouple on a furnace has fluids in it? ive only ever heard of or seen TXV sensing bulbs with fluids in them. from what i understand thermocouples generate electrical current by utilizing two dissimilar metals to initiate a thermoelectric effect. this is new information to me and i haven't been able to find anything more with the internet, if you could tell me more about this or where i can read about it i would appreciate it EDIT: just read about mercury and hydraulic pilot safeties, never heard about them when i was in school. was this what you were referring to?
What brand thermocouples do you use? It’s been about 8 years since I had one replaced on my Burnham boiler. Want to buy one for a spare and don’t want to buy a cheap one. Always amusing to watch your shows, keep up the good work!!!
Funny how customers try to not tell you some one else (tried) to fix something and really did not fix anything and you have to figure it out...... on your own..... and of course the customer will pay for the free service the friend added to the bill..... good job....
Aye sometimes you already know what the problem is but you have to do the steps so the home owner doesn’t fell like he got over charged lol for a two min job lol great video
Brings back nightmares of running emergency no heat service calls in the middle of the night in a snow storm.
Then I wake up and realize I'm retired and in south Florida for the winter.
These are great videos !
@@PipeDoctor yeppers definitely brings back memories.. ha! i did it in the 90s.. here in ohio not too many boilers.. mostly gas forced air in basements, crawl spaces, or attics.. I knew if the wind started howling I was gonna get a lot of no heat calls.. most of them were re-lighting pilots cleaning and adjusting valves / replacing thermocouples.. gosh if only I had a Testo 320 back in those days!!! then I got into commercial.. so instead of being in a cold dry basement id end up on a roof of a restarunt servicing a package unit.. ha! company figured out i was good at computers so I got a cushy job getting certified on all things DDC (mid 90s).. now im in telecom..people call me that their phones dont work.. I sit in my warm house and log in with a laptop LOL.. keep doin it man.. you got the goods there! KUDOS
Ha ha , I’ve been retired 7 years as a gas utility co.service tech. I still get calls at all hours in winter. People just don’t get it that I’m not interested in working any more on the crap out there after their neighbor really screwed it up.
@@natgasf4097 ha! or they *say* its the "friend" or neighbor when come-on its usually been some DIY they didnt want to admit to
you know when homeowner picks up a tool bag and hides it right as you walk in that he has been screwin it up
But was the money good?
@@buk6708 the money was always good on calls where the DIY jacked it up.. took twice as long to fix so twice the $
Customers that attempt to fix things themselves, usually do so after a dozen of their phone calls to professionals go unanswered or ignored.
It is nice to see that there are places where a service company will actually show up.
People remember the guy that saves their ass in a snowstorm. That is how loyal customers are made.
@@PipeDoctor That is what Snail Mail is for...
@@walterbordett2023 - no a “free courtesy visit” is the way to handle that, it was Mike who forgot not the customer. But Mike is the one who will properly tag, can’t expect a customer to know what’s what.
Mikey Pipes! Another great video!
A little on thermocouples:
Thermocouples work due to a thermoelectric effect that occurs when two dissimilar metals are connected and the connection joint is heated. Most likely the thermocouple in this gas appliances is a copper - constantan type T thermocouple but I am not really sure right now.
The outer wire is in the form of a copper tube and inside the tube is an insulation layer covering a solid wire (most likely constantan material in this case). The end of the thermocouple in the fire is where the wires are welded together. This wire arrangement is like a coaxial cable TV cable.
When the pilot is lit it heats the welded end of the thermocouple and a small voltage is produced. (around 10-30 mV depending upon the flame temperature). This voltage is enough to energize the solenoid coil in the gas valve just enough to keep it open and maintain the pilot light gas flow when the gas appliance main valve is off. This is why you need to hold the valve pilot button down long enough so you can give the thermocouple enough time to heat up and increase its voltage output to produce just enough voltage to keep the pilot solenoid open.
Now imagine you were in a spaceship travelling to Mars or some other distant planet. You need power on the trip to call home once a day to check in with the Mrs. And see how the kids are doing. On a long trip your batteries won’t last very long…and you are too far from the sun for those solar panels to work….so what to do? Use a nuclear reactor! Believe it or not, you can make power by using arrays of thermocouples surrounding a long lasting radioactive Plutonium 238 source. The Plutonium decays naturally causing a heat-up of the thermocouples and a voltage is produced - now you can call home!
Yes the very same principle used to open your gas valve on your gas appliance at home is used to power spacecraft in distant places where batteries and solar cells no longer can function.
Michael nailed it. The thermocouple has no liquid in it. It's just 2 dis-similar metals joined at the 'bulb' that gets heated by the pilot flame that creates voltage to energize the electro-magnet that holds the pilot valve open. I pulled the magnet assembly out of a hot water tank gas valve to test thermocouples under a 'load'. Sometimes they will read OK on a meter when not connected to anything, but under a load they wont produce enough voltage to power the magnet to keep the pilot on.Generally 15mv is minimum to keep the pilot on. Keep doing what you do Mikey Pipes!
@@PipeDoctor
I have bought cheap thermocouples - from Walmart of all places - and they are still in service going on ten years or so.
The tips on the thermocouple can corrode from the constant high temperature they experience in normal operation. Then the weld between the dissimilar metals weakens or breaks, and no or too little voltage is produced.
At least that appears to be how the thermocouples (only a handful, I am not a plumber or HVAC tech) failed that I’ve replaced.
Thanks. When Mikey said there was fluid in the bulb, I was going to have to Google it.
@@blitzblutz Well, voltage produced is just like pressure produced in a saturated fluid bulb so the intention and concept was correct.
Now that's what I'm saying, thermocouples don't have fluid in them. They are dissimilar metals, generating current by friction.
I used to be an auto mechanic for dealerships, one thing I can say a lot of people try to fixit themselves, only to screw things up. So when it is towed in and you magically get it fixed, it makes you look like a genius, cut the people some slack, you never learn anything if you don't try, and most people are ashamed to admit that they messed it up because they will be ridiculed.
Very true. Sometimes you gotta try something and mess up so you can learn something and do it right.
Thomas Edison once said about making the lightbulb “I have not failed. I’ve just found 10,000 ways that won’t work.”
The biggest thing is learning something and not repeating the same mistakes. Eventually you get to the point where you know when you are in over your head and ask for help.
people hate to admit they fucked up, in hopes there will not be an extra charge for their mess up...
Ive been plumber for about half my life now, i enjoy watching these things. Im from europe, the netherlands myself. the technique is so antique. but still very similar to the most modern of boilers. the information you get out of this valuable for all plumbers! nice work
Honest workers should be flooded with views, you did good my friend.
Excellent diagnostic skills...oh yeah, the best was the infamous “invisible friend”...sure...
I was thinking the same thing haha. My suspicion was confirmed when the customer quoted the 25 millivolt spec. Mikey pipes was a true professional, though and didn't let it phase him.
I appreciate how respectful you are to customers,even in situations like this.i do the the same,good job. You are have have more knowledge than most techs.
Thermocouples are two dissimilar metals that when heated produce an electrical current. I start at R & C, leave one Probe on C and work my way towards the thermostat and then back to the gas valve. That will help you find where you are losing the call for heat. Just a tip that helped me in the past maybe it'll help you as well.
Good looking out.
Sweet folks passing it forward
Nice job
Don’t you just love when someone has a friend that thinks he came fix it.
Stay Safe
You can steal a pilotstat (magnetic plunger the thermocouple hold in) out of a gas valve your trashing and throw it in your tool bag as a tester. Thread the thermocouple into it and squeeze the pilotstat. You have visible proof if the thermocouple is good or not.. quick easy tester
That's old school
New school...buy a thermocouple tester!
Why
Why not just measure the mv?
@@SuperVstech much easier his way!
30 milivolt thermocouple has been the standard since the technology was invented decades ago.
I ran a no cooling new refrigerator call back 25 years ago.
The cust wanted to save the cost of having a tech install a water supply kit for an icemaker so she had a handy neighbor hook one up.
When I took the back off I saw why the refrigerator wasn't cooling. The handy neighbor had hooked a self piercing saddle valve on the suction side of the refrigerant line.
Yeah, and voided warranty to boot.
She saved 30 bucks and trashed a brand new unit.
Saddle valves don’t care what kind of pipe they are piercing, as long as the pipe is soft enough.
That's funny,I did furnace for a guy that just had a pool heater installed.They tied the new gas line into the old galvanized water pipe,guess what happened when the turned it alk back on! New water heater,new furnace ( the other one was,2 weeks old) new has stove, new gas fireplace and they replaced the brand new pool heater.Unbelievable!
25 to 30 mv
@@petersmart1999 why did the existing gas appliances need replaced? Just curious. I understand the pool heater getting flooded.
@@tycobb8621 because they were all brand new,and had water run through them,if you had water coming out of the burners of your brand new stove,or your water heater,would you not want it replaced do to their incomplete!
The old, "I had my friend here"...sure buddy! When the homeowner draws attention to a loose wire and says that it was like that when it was working. Sure buddy! If the guy was just honest from the beginning, this issue could have been solved in 2 minutes. Simple as, "Gee, I was desparate to get this thing running, I took off this wire but don't remember where from.
This is not just only in plumbing, 20 years im electrician and TV serviceman in central europe and it is the same thing. So first rule of well done job is: Never trust your customer. They always lie to you.
Neighbor did something but we didn't talk about it - you know, he just does DIY stuff around my house. .....I think thermocouple minimum voltage is 25mv - don't remember where I heard that...just a guess.
Charge double time=$1,200
Good work, figured that one out in about 5 seconds, see it often especially when people don’t know what they’re doing mess with the commons. It won’t provide a signal back for that gas valve.
When a homeowner says (my friend) it usually means I messed up and dont want to take the blame
Whenever my co-workers "check" an expansion tank by tapping I ask them to back it up by $5. I will then pull out a pocket pressure gauge and check it (after dumping the pressure in the system). I win more than I lose. A full tank will still give a hollow tapping sound, other times the tank will have low pressure. If it is low just change it out, you can pump it back up but chances are you will be back in a few weeks.
Great job on the troubleshoot and video.
If only the guys I work with would listen to this advice.
Yuppp, if your not testing " your guessing ".
Quote; MIKY PIPES
I enjoy watching your videos. If I ever needed a plumber I would be definitely be calling you. I no longer live on the South Shore of Nassau. Just recently moved Upstate. It’s good to have this connection back to my Hometown roots. Keep making tour videos.
Nice video like always.
A few years ago I had the same problem with the thermo coupling.friend suggested to replace it.i took coupling to Loews,I bumped into a plumber there.he suggested to clean the coupling lightly with fine sandpaper to remove the soot that was on.i did exactly what he said.its been about 3 years & no more thermo coupling issues again.
A very simple system easily diagnosed and No damm computer boards! Glad you educated the home owner.
man im happy for him ,im happy you have help him even if this is your job is nice to see a bit of human empathy
Superb job! The millivolts was in range when you measured if I remember correctly but still was malfunctioning! Well done.
I don't work on hydronics but still very interesting.
Mike I watch both you and Steve Lav. Both are hard working, but even better you appear to be honest. That says alot in today's world. Thank you.
24V AC is sent through the flame rod into the flame, AC current is rectified to a DC current through the process of flame rectification. The DC microamps flows back to the gas valve through the pilot tube (ground)
I used to work with these guys who would do almost everything themselves. When I told someone I was getting a new furnace, he asked me why not install it myself. Why? Ka-boom!! That's why!
Watching some older videos beings you are on vacation. And also, thanks so much for the "Mikey Pipes" stickers. If I lived near SL, I would put one on his back bumper! 🤣
Always a pleasure and informative to watch
I like people who proud at their work
Man coming back from the beach to a foot of snow. Stay safe out there
I was setting here screaming.... hook up the control voltage on yellow. Why was the yellow unhooked.. lol. Great job as always buddy.
First of all welcome back hope you enjoyed your vacation. I have been forwarding your videos to some of our young tech’s. Good troubleshooting techniques. Will definitely help out. Keep up the quality work.
Good man going out for a new customer. Thats why you're successful....
Thermocouples generate current by friction of dissimilar metals, and have no fluid or refrigerant in them. He looks to be a victim of silly sabotage. Sometimes when it comes to friends, who needs enemies. LOL
I almost died laughing when he said "fluid". 30 years in HVAC, first time I heard about that "fluid". Refill it and your good to go. LMAO
I found it interesting also how he refered to the thermocouple as having fluid in it. However first thermocouples genterate a current frm disimmiler metals being fused together and heated to produce higher outputs. Next the test performed will not give an acurate diagnosis as only OCV ( open circuit voltage will be measured, the proper way to test thermocouple output is with a test connector installed in the circuit so the thermocouple can be checked under load. In regards to "fluid" the poster appears to be confusing a mercury flame sensor switch that was used in intermittent pilot applications before the electronic flame sensing circuits became the standard control.
@@lanesmith4422 Maybe he said that just to simplify it for the customer, sometimes it's easier. Haha. Who knows.
@@jamz4351 well he didn’t simplify, just gave wrong info.
But . . . . . I though the same thing. Besides, having to explains things while diagnosis can be a hassle.
I know this thread is 5 months old. I was going to say the same thing. Lol, liquid in the thermocouple.
I have used the Watts hot water recirculating system to stop freezing pipes. Because the “not so hot” hot water gets sent back through the cold water pipe, the water is kept moving as temperature of the hot water drops - and the cold pipe gets some warmth from that not so hot water flowing in it back to the cold supply.
I would have pulled out the entire pilot assembly and cleaned it to ensure that the orifice was not partially obstructed or that there was no carbine build up on the pilot assembly. Adjusted the pilot flame if necessary to ensure the top of the thermocouple is being submersed in the flame. then you can test the thermocoupling miilivoltage. Good job on noticing the common was off.
Love the content. I am a new sub. I am also from LI, although I am from central Suffolk. I was thinking of getting into the trade, but my blindness/visual impairment would obviously prevent that. I have a career path I am going down though. what got me interested in the plumbing and HVAC field in the first place was that I have some family members in it and I started searching youtube when I was younger to see what everything was all about. Thanks for the great content Mike, keep it up!
Thermocouple is two dissimilar metals welded together which is what creates the 15-30mV its not a fluid, That would be in some thing like an oven FSD or mechanical thermostat
lovely an other family being happy and heated
great video, you made the trip out during those ny winter conditions and the troubleshooting skills were so good!!!
@@PipeDoctor that is dedication to the job and work, respect!!
Nothing like winter in the north country. That's why I went south.
We always come when called, the unsung hero's. Thank you for saving them, they are saying yall are in for it. Stay dry and hopefully warm.
Used to go on rural power out calls during blizzards. We would meet up with a County V Plow who would bust the way to the farm building site. It was fun when i was young.
Fluid in the thermocouple?I think you are thinking of a hydraulic pilot or mercury type pilot safety with the 3 prong plug into the gas valve.You have to be careful with those because if that thin tube breaks,you will have a mercury spill.
its a bi metal that reacts when heated
7:49 I thought the thermocouple produced a voltage when two different metals (typically Chromel and Alumel) were heated. That's how jet engines measure EGT (exhaust gas temperature)
There was a problem first then the homeowner decide to try and change the thermocouple causing a second problem
Then called for help. your job mr Phelps is to find all the problems I liked watching from my living room.
They all give up and call for help at 5 pm.
Also, thermocouples do not work on friction.
The pipe doctor is the master but what the hell are you talking about, a fluid in the thermocouple? I've never heard of that. It's just 2 dissimilar metals heating up and creating a current between them
After watching this,,, i'm going to practice on my neighbors heat first... lol Great work.. thumbs up!
@@PipeDoctor its taken me 30 yrs to figure out my oil burner... i'll leave the gas for the pros. cheers!
“He’s mechanically inclined” - anything he does goes downhill fast ;)
Good one
It's always "I got a friend who knows these stuff" that makes you spend more time on the job.
@@airmech5083 maybe he knows a guy, but he messed that one up himself, notice there was only one set of foot prints in the snow when the repairman left. I do all of my own house work, but when it comes to friends, I rarely help, I don't want to open myself up to liability.
30 Millivolts produced at the dissimilar metal wire junction over the flame . Thermopile is many wire junctions producing up to 900 mv
Nice video! Great job of going out in that snow to help someone out. Stay safe.
I’m thinking your client and his friend might have the same name. Lol
Coming from the other side of the blue ball, is there no pre or post purge on these burners? Where I’m from it’s mandatory. We also don’t run pilot flames, it’s electronic ignition.
I’m a hvac tech and I’ve heard that clients story before. He tried to fix it himself and couldn’t
not tellin: I think the best one is “I just changed my filter a week ago I don’t know how it got that dirty already” with their iced up coil
Hello pipe doctor I’m from Huntington Sta, I love to watch your videos I’ve learned a lot from you, I’m an hvac tech having an issue with a Navien ncb 240 error code eo12 I cleaned intake filter, checked manifold gas pressure on high fire was 4.8wc, checked for ground, blockage intake and exhaust, combustion analysis , everything looks good but still pulling the same error every other day do you know what I’m missing from your experience before I call Navien support? Thanks for sharing your experience great jobs
I just installed brand new and a new transformer
Venting issue or blocked condensate
I found one homeowner disconnected the ground From the electronic box His so-called neighbor Was engineer She said
When someone says "I'm an engineer " a great response is "oh, I love trains".
@@thatotherguy1 lol
great professional work with good customer interaction 10 out of 10
I wish my furnace had been something easy like that, I spent 2 hours to diagnose that the secondary heat exchanger was corroded through, as well as blocked. I was hoping for a igniter or a roll out sensor or something. I ended up installing a new furnace, as the price for a new secondary was more than a new furnace.
its good to have you back, saint mike to the rescued
!!!!
Fuuucckkk that! We had a snow storm a few weeks back here in Texas. I had about two inches in my yard. I stayed home. No worky worky that day!
Tell me more about this fluid in that copper thing? And it makes 25 volts?
Nice chip shot call! 25 to 30 mv is thermocouple reading.Great video
Great job! You didn't give him to hard a time about his friend f ing up the furnace! LoL!
Kick ass you ran that call exactly like I would. “Great mind”
Your a good man for traveling out in that shit to save his butt! That's why I moved to SC!
It’s two dissimilar metals that when heated produce milli volts. Not fluid
Very cool how you took the time to explain, some homeowners are genuinely interested in your craft. I'm in Seaford NY, perhaps I can call on you for service in the future.
There is no fluid in that line it's a bare wire. The type of copper wire is called pyrotechnics look it up. There is two dissimilar metals being heated which produces a voltage. They have unloaded and loaded volts. Loaded is best but you need adapter for the valve . Your fluck meter temp prob that little silver spec on the end .
Home owner poking around without a clue. I’m sure a “buddy” was in there. Lol
"Had a friend come."
He's my right hand ____
Unfortunately my neighbor knows I'm a retired HVAC mechanic. If I remember correctly, the last thermocoupler I tested on a Rite boiler put out about 80 mv.
There is no fluid in the coupler it should 30 mill it works with a different medal reaction when heated the 3/8 should be in the flame production of the voltage holds down a magnetic contact in the gas valve
Hay don't get that way u know we have boilers in michigan infact at one time more boilers were produced in Michigan Than any other state
All I was saying your dissertation on how a thermo couple work was wrong and its no big deal but it was infact incorrect there is no fluid there is no cap tube and it does produce between 30 and 70 mill volts that hold a magnetic contact down I loved your videos and Steve is one hard working guy .I dont know if you ever work a oil burner but it does separate the men from boys .Oil burner work can go sideways in a New York min .
Sorry things got to tough start .
In these videos I find its best not to say any thing unless you know for a fact its right .Thanks again
Paul
Good little vid ...1st time watcher and I subscribed ...
The delay you mentioned on that gas valve is by design. Both Honeywell and White Rogers had gas valves that were slow open valves. These were generally on large btu gravity vent systems. The “ slow opening” valves help reduce roll out and tripping roll out switches. I’ve been a gas fitter and in the trade for 46 years. Too old and stubborn to retire, maybe I’ll join your 26% club. 🇨🇦
@@PipeDoctor Glad you know. Not everyone does. Glad to see your a fan of Navien. I’ve been putting them in for about seven or eight years . Have you tried IBC wall boilers. Another good product and a good price point. I enjoy you videos and I did subscribe👍🇨🇦
@@PipeDoctor Great tech support from IBC as good as Navien. Keep up the good work, your apprentices appear in Good Hands. Be well and stay safe.
I'm finding a lot of spill switches on flue collectors of steam boilers tripping. Why is that? Chimneys are not back drafting after the switch is reset and the boiler is run.
@@kenc.9067 not really sure about that could be down drafting after prolonged run time. I have seen were the draft spill switch is tripped and have reset it and checked operation. Everything appears ok and have left the job. Get called back the next day and find it tripped again. Turns out the boiler room door is open both times I arrive but that it is closed any other time. Unit on a long run is lacking oxygen to burn and down drafts and trips the switch. Installed transfer grilles in the door. Problem solved.
I always heat up a new t couple installed in gas valve heat up with hand torch outside of burner for test old tan color valve good for not lighting
that burnham furnace wasn't too grossly dusty.... i looked up the miliamps for my own knowledge for a thermocouple and you were right it was low at 20. it's supposed to be 25-35 according to google... nice job.. lol.. my buddy has a few manuals...lol
Gotta love when people call you and say the furnace won't run and you get there it's a boiler! F--king drives me crazy,when you brainstorming on the way,you think you have mentally prepared and wham!
you should have a gas valve tester for testing you gas valve and millivolts draw on you gas valve to make sure it is working right, but everything other then that looks good, because at that point you are guess at that point, just like what you say "if you dont test you are guessing"
New York strong. Appreciate your videos one NY hvac tech to another
Open read of 27mv is good.
Less then 12mv under load with a thermocouple adapter gas valve under load bad thermocouple
Drop out pilot safety bleeds more then 180 seconds and doesn’t shut off change valve
How often do you run into oil
Burners in your area?
Heavy on oil down in my area. Just curious!
@@PipeDoctor better questions is oil common in the area but just something you don’t work on?
How did you get all green lights?
you need an inline thermocouple tester to be able to measure millivolts under load
what kind of thermocouple on a furnace has fluids in it? ive only ever heard of or seen TXV sensing bulbs with fluids in them. from what i understand thermocouples generate electrical current by utilizing two dissimilar metals to initiate a thermoelectric effect. this is new information to me and i haven't been able to find anything more with the internet, if you could tell me more about this or where i can read about it i would appreciate it
EDIT: just read about mercury and hydraulic pilot safeties, never heard about them when i was in school. was this what you were referring to?
What brand thermocouples do you use? It’s been about 8 years since I had one replaced on my Burnham boiler. Want to buy one for a spare and don’t want to buy a cheap one. Always amusing to watch your shows, keep up the good work!!!
Funny how customers try to not tell you some one else (tried) to fix something and really did not fix anything and you have to figure it out...... on your own..... and of course the customer will pay for the free service the friend added to the bill..... good job....
Did you check the breakers?
Do you have snow tires? How does the Sprinter handle in the snow?
You need at least 15mv but it is reading at 28 why is that still low?
Use to be a tech on long island. I hated driving to calls in a blizzard lol.
Only joking. Seen video of you saying Steve blocked you. Figured I make a joke. Only love and respect. Keep up videos
Love it. Your videos are like OTJ training for me.
Good job finding the bad fluid lol😂😂😂
Saint Mike?
You are a bit of a lunatic, ain’t ya? This is why I subscribed.
RUclips University !! Amazing !! Customer know EVERYTHING...
Won’t stay lit.. change the thermocouple..cheap and easy to change..
100-1 thermocouple to gas valves.
Just great when someone else has a go at trying to fix it . Causes even more problems. 👍👍
The best is when everything's disassembled when you get there.
Aye sometimes you already know what the problem is but you have to do the steps so the home owner doesn’t fell like he got over charged lol for a two min job lol great video
Hey I never noticed the wrench in that star of life....LMAO
Thank you, super job
Should test it under load of the gas valve pilot valve.