Self-loathing Chav Scum Ideas either correspond to the facts of reality, or they don't. Whether they're reasonable or not depends ultimately upon this correspondence, not anyone's subjective whim.
Dyson, who I know nothing about, struck me in the debates as a man of weak character with a vocabulary. Sounds like he studies a Thesaurus instead of human nature. Came across like a gold plated motorcycle ashtray.
Randall Ball People talk about him studying a thesaurus in part because the words he chooses to use often have the correct denotation but the wrong connotation. That's what people are noticing when they say that someone is TRYING to sound intelligent as opposed to just sounding intelligent.
I compare Michael Dyson to Russell Brand sometimes and Brand makes more sense, more often even with his love for big words and even though he never went to university.
I like how YOU are the gatekeeper to everything intelligent. Dyson has a PhD from Princeton is an accomplished author and is a professor at Georgetown but still has to prove something to you. Pure comedy.
Linwood Taliaferro: Weak trolling of yours. Precisely because Dyson has a PhD degree and is an author and an educator, he has to prove that he is worthy of being a voice of reason for ordinary people. In that debate, he has failed miserably, as an alleged authority and it was clear even from a point of view of common folks, that can have a healthy reason, even if not as sophisticated and eloquent as Dyson's. (although even that claim is dubious when someone is rapping a mental diarrhea.) It seems you are trying to be a gatekeeper for healthy minded individuals on behalf of Dyson. Which is a joke indeed.
Why does he have to prove that he is worthy of being a voice of reason for ordinary people? Says who? How does that further legitimize him? And who are you exactly? I came to the Munk debate as a fan of Peterson. Dyson made intelligent salient points and I wanted J.P. to respond in kind. But what I got was an easily frustrated petulant kinda fellow who got hung up on being called a "white man". I think J. Peterson is brilliant and I've listened to hours of his interviews. But I object to Dyson being dismissed as some uninformed punk. He gave just as good as he got. Sure he is a verbose windbag but the dude is very aware of what he speaks of.
Linwood Taliaferro: lol Who am I? Who among us can be really sure, of who we really are? Who are you to ask me, who am I, exactly? Dyson and that woman, which name I have forgotten happily, were really lowering the level of debate on the subject of political correctness and such. Which was disappointing. That said, I can give you that, Peterson wasn't in his best form either. He kind of sucked, from what I saw. Only Stephen Fry was performing brilliantly, in my view. And, I never said or implied, Dyson was an uninformed punk. On the contrary, I had higher expectation, than what we got from him. At first I thought, oh shit, he is good. He's gonna be a tough opponent for Peterson. But, after a while, I realized, there is not much substance to what he was saying, at bullet speed. Well, the debate was not very good overall, except Stephen Fry's monologues.
Chitty Bang Bang, "weak-minded prick". That's an ironic statement from someone who lacks both originality in their username and the self-control to resist being provocative when replying to a perfectly innocent comment.
JP is incredibly mediocre, watch him get out-logicked by a fucking comedian and JP changes his stance on civil rights in under 40 seconds. ruclips.net/video/KbriPG-cCvY/видео.htmlm40s While you're add it read this article that dissects everything Peterson. I know you will read because you are all so high-minded and in search of truth... www.currentaffairs.org/2018/03/the-intellectual-we-deserve
Cody Davies, I've seen that interview with Jim Jeffferies. Jordan Peterson will probably be the first to admit that his first priority isn't discussing politics and gender issues. You can see it when he does interviews on said topics, he just seems disconnected. He is passionate about helping people, that's all. Look at his recent interview with Joe Rogan where he talks about his current tour. He gets really emotional when discussing how people approach him and tell him that they're getting their lives on track. That's what he is most concerned with. His observations on politics and social issues just happen to tie in in some way or another to his psychological work and they are based on scientific studies. They don't strike me as intentionally provocative. I could understand why Milo Yianiaoosposlosi8ilosuusisljj (spelling issues) would cop the flak he deserves but I find that JP receives far more hate than what is warranted. I'm not trying to debate you, mate. Because in this day and age, of course he is going to piss people off with what he says. Everyone does. The bigger the public platform, the more people you piss off.
I watched the Munk debate and for a very short period I was impressed with Dyson and his use of language but then I realised he didn't actually put that linguistic ability to any sensible, potent use. Fry and Jordan utterly fried (no pun intended) the opposition with thought, intelligence, wit and calmness. I could see Peterson getting more than frustrated with Dyson and kudos to him keeping his cool...
The Peterson/Frye vs. Dyson/Goldberg debate reminded me of an old adage: 'Arguing with an intelligent person is difficult. Arguing with a stupid person is impossible.'
@@gingfreecss3808 Because you know it's true while you have nothing to be angry about. Your momma is better at satire than me. She had you, didn't she?
@@jamberry8026 Lol… You’d benefit immensely by listening to Jordan Peterson’s 12 Rules lectures. You’d quickly learn that he’s not so much angry as he is embarrassed by the horrible state of higher education and intellectual discourse.
In the U.S Eric Dyson is regarded as a race baiter. I thought he was a poor choice for the Monk Debate. He's a singled minded one trick pony who tries to impress people with a vocabulary that feels beyond him. Dyson suggests that you should go with him to a Black Baptists Church. He's apparently spent quite a lot of time in Black churches, yet it hasn't developed his ability to debate or bring anything else to any discussion but the race card. If visiting a Black church hasn't done him much for him,....why should you go??
Anthony Johnson, it's clear that Dayson gets his cadence and incoherent word salad from southern sermons. He wants to come across as a Martin Luther King but ends up a Dr Suse.
I was shocked by his use of personal insults and refusal to apologize for them. Coming from a pastor? He did seem very self conscious about his ability to sound oratorical, which came up flat not because he’s untalented but because he had flimsy arguments. One thing he did say that gave me some insight was his comments about feeling that white people still have more of the power and are just whining about losing a little. He also explained for me that he believes that since the framework of our society was created by whites there is no possibility for an even playing field. The whole thing must be broken down, replaced and countered, white culture muffled. Never mind that it’s the culture that raised him up.
You make some really good point, Cynthia. Dyson talks about about " Systemic Racism," and " Institutional Racism." Meaning, I suppose, that if the system and our institutions are racist by their nature, then the system and the institutions, created by whites, must be brought down, along with the " white mindset " that created them. It's a very flawed hypothesis. It's an attack on an ethnic group. As Dr. Peterson lays out in his arguments...." this has all been done before in other areas and countries in the world,...and always with tragic results.".
As a black man I used to eat the identical politics that was fed to me. 10 years ago I would've been a huge Eric Dyson fan, but now I find myself following great minds like Jordan Peterson, Thomas Sowell, Ben Shapiro. And I feel much more aware of how the real world works.
You should find your own meanings and not let anybody flood your mind. Great thinkers like those you named can be wrong, after all. Always question yourself and others after learning something new or a new idea. You wouldn't want someone to give away all your clothing or belongings would you? Now do that same scenario with your mind. You will find it is necessary to question all things right or wrong.
Cody Davies Excellent point. I'm interested in Mr. Dyson's point of view and his proposed solutions. Mr. Dyson is correct that there are problems ... but he isn't presenting a path to improve things. Is this a tribalism problem?
@@kungfoochicken08 Most of the men who follow Peterson hate women! I wouldn't be surprised if the next serial killer of women has Peterson paraphenilia in their house!
So? Are you going to use that excuse for ANY debate between JP and someone on the left? Who would you rather JP debated, who is "popular" enough in your eyes?
Seriously lol. If there are right wing conservative teachers they most likely are the ones who tell there students they don't talk politics and religion in class. And honestly that's how it should be. These Marxist teachers are indoctrinating these young kids and it's embarrassing
Dorian Whitney as a parent of a son entering his junior year in high school, I’m struggling to understand how any parent would encourage their kids to go to college.
Metolius9 I'm only 28 and finished college a few years ago. I went for a while. I got lucky and didn't really deal with idiocy, but the classes that would get heated with debates were pretty much classes like history of religion and logic. As far as math and chemistry, those classes were just about that. I'd say it depends what degree you go for which you will deal with less sjw crap. Business and accounting is what I did, and I dealt with 0 sjw crap.
I can't figure out if this is your genuine opinion or if you just inserted an unnecessary comma. "Do not debate that fool, Dyson" is an instruction to Michael Dyson and an insult to Jordan Peterson. "Do not debate that fool Dyson" is an instruction to Jordan Peterson and an insult to Michael Dyson. Which one were you going for?
Agree. Dyson would use the opportunity to do one thing: try to create sound bites to edit and make Peterson look bad. That was his only goal in the monk debate. Dyson is a charlatan.
...how manipulative and hateful the ***extreme leftists are. apologies, just trying to distinguish ourselves more clearly these days --a wise man said it would be important to do so :]
Kevin Corso True lol. It's an extreme, but it seems like its getting louder. The walkaway movement just started because of it. I'm not sure I will ever vote democrat for a while after watching the state of the union months ago. They sat for the national anthem and didn't stand for actual good things like low unemployment. I just can't fathom the stupidity on their side. I really hate the two party system. Maybe with trump, the system has already crashed and maybe we will find a more moderate voice someday.
Peterson's name has been drug through the mud, I respect him so much for what he's going through for us. Jordan, whatever happens, do not drink the hemlock
The one time I really agreed with Dyson and was actually impressed by his knowledge on the given topic and eloquence of his speech, I realized he was talking about vacuums. I immediately ordered two and anxiously await their delivery.
In that debate Peterson asked; "When does political correctness go too far?" Michelle Goldberg replied;" when it is censorious". The definition of policial correctness is "the avoidance of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against." In other words, political correctness is censorious by definition. It was an own goal. Like much of what Goldberg said. She was hopelessly hypocritical but since Dyson was outright racist and loves the sound of his own voice most of the attention was placed on his bigotry and not Goldberg's hypocrisy.
Dave XB it’s interesting when you look at the heritage of most of the people calling for political correctness. Including Michelle Goldberg. These people invented victim politics. Don’t forget: “They cry out in pain while they strike you”
Yeah, I was laughing the whole time that chick talked. She was trying so hard to stay relevant with their arguments that she's either vague or contradictory. She could barely make a coherent argument and just kept rambling without getting to the point.
Michelle Goldberg is a joke. She made a fool of herself by criticizing JP over a soundbite without fully investigating the content of his position. She's a knee-jerk hack and displayed her seemingly boundless stupidity for the world to see.
@@goodtalker Does Dyson attract young white men as followers or is it Peterson? Peterson certainly isn't attracting very many young white women the way he talks so badly about them.
I was reminded of a quote from Orwell the first time I heard Mr. Dyson speak. "The great enemy of clear language is insincerity. When there is a gap between one’s real and one’s declared aims, one turns as it were instinctively to long words and exhausted idioms, like a cuttlefish spurting out ink."
Dyson kept throwing strawmans, ad hominems and all sorts of fallacies to compensate for the fact that he couldn't debate with the actual facts. He wasn't there to debate, he was there to crack a few jokes and preach to the audience.
Dyson relies on the impact of his vocabulary and orator skills on audiences of low to average intelligence. It's all about style over substance. His arguments are actually vacuous, rarely if ever address the questions posed to him, and almost make me believe he doesn't really understand the actual issues being debated.
Agree, he was there to squeeze every drop of fame and opportunity out of the event to further himself. I believe him to be actually evil because I believe by looking at his arguments, he never tried to beat jordan with substance. Adhominoms, jokes and buzzwords. He speaks like the typical traveling preacher who runs church to church to put on performances for pay, while hiding behind god.
By his own admission, the debate was a sham. He insisted that due to his skin color, Peterson was disqualified from meaningfully weighing in on the subject matter, therefore the whole thing was DOA.
Dyson was a complete fool and I hope Jordan Peterson does not take him up on his podcast request he's not worth it totally unworthy. Of course he would never follow through with anything that he says. "go to a church" give me a break!
He definitely shouldn't. You could tell Dyson was jealous of him in the monk debates for all the exposure he has gotten in the last 2 years. If he goes on Dyson's podcast it will probably be his most listened podcast, and Dyson doesn't deserve that.
Dyson's main ploy is the race card. It seems like that's all he knows - and most of his conclusions about race seem to cast white people as oppressors who are unable to even know when they are being racist, and black people as victims, and the only people qualified to recognize racism. Talk about being lost in your own narrative! He can't - or won't - give white people any credit for doing good things, or having pure motives. It's perplexing, because there are many black People who don't agree with him, and aren't like that at all. Another debate with Dyson would be more of the same - him bludgeoning Peterson over race, and Peterson trying to conduct an intellectually honest discussion, but constantly having to fend off charges of racism. Completely unproductive.
JP is incredibly mediocre, watch him get out-logicked by a fucking comedian and JP changes his stance on civil rights in under 40 seconds. ruclips.net/video/KbriPG-cCvY/видео.htmlm40s While you're add it read this article that dissects everything Peterson. I know you will read because you are all so high-minded and in search of truth... www.currentaffairs.org/2018/03/the-intellectual-we-deserve
Cody Davies um Peterson admitting that he may be wrong is not a weakness it's a strength. If you expect everyone to be right all the time you're delusional. A lesser person would try in vain to hold a position just to stroke their ego. I don't think anybody is perfect do you?
George Cosestet- Being able to admit you're wrong = good Fancying yourself as great intellectual when you obviously haven't given any thought to one of the most talked about issues of our day, an issue that you yourself have opined deeply held beliefs = bad
I know I’m probably a late subscriber. As this video gave my the inclination. But I have to say: The production quality with “The Delve” is exceptional. Great camera work, fantastic picture quality, with an emphasis on the guests POV rather than an undercurrent bias view. Cheers!
I rather enjoy him debating, they both end up making a strong argument in Petersons favor. Jordan sets it up and Dyson dunks it with his eloquent ignorance.
Dyson uses words like "bruh" during his debates. It immediately makes him sound like an unprofessional frat boy, and that's compounded by the way he always seems to be fishing for laughs from the audience.
@@jamberry8026 he also used the nword during a public debate and the perception is documented as a digital recording. Not that he offended anyone, but it kind of tells you what level of discussion you can achieve with that kind of opponent in a debate
You can do all that and still argue soundly and on point. Dyson descended into rambling instead, but that is not inseparably tied to him adopting the style you describe.
Peterson pulls shit out of his ass and calls it data then gets mad if you question it! That's what Dyson was talking about, but you're too full of your own bullshit that it went right over your head!
@@jamberry8026 Can you provide me with one instance where Peterson pulled "shit out of his ass" and called it data and got mad after being questioned about it?
@@this_rishi He always does. When he said women are out of control. What kind of control? He is also paranoid and thinks that the government is going to make it illegal to call transgenders anything except women. That is just utter nonsense. He also calls civil rights activists and advocates SJW which is a Nazi term for people like MLK and BLM and many others. It's a dysphemism and he well knows it. He also claims that men don't make more money than women and that men do jobs that women don't. I am a woman and am a millwright, welder, carpenter and auto mechanic. I am now retired, but caught much hell from white men who didn't want me to work with them. So Peterson is also a liar.
@@jamberry8026 none of the above things have been said or ever existed in the perceivable realm of public debate reality, as far as i can tell, not even mr. Dyson questioning any evidence referenced by mr. Peterson during the debate. Unless you cite or link materials proving otherwise, your accusations are nothing but verbal harassment
As a Canadian-Haitian now living in the USA, I couldn't help but roll my eyes when Dyson put Peterson in the "Rich old white racist republican" box. At that point, it became obvious he was mischaracterizing his interlocutor. First, anyone who's even so slightly aware of Peterson background knows that's not where he comes from. Secondly, that archetype doesn't even exist in Eastern Canada. You don't have white old people oppressing blacks; that's simply not a reality. When he invited him to a Baptist church, I thought: "Peterson has been accused of many things, but since when is he supposed to be racist?" where the hell did that one from?
Michael Dyson is one of these elite black Americans that looked down in regular blue collar black folks. He has a high level intellect so everything for him is all about the racialism of America. Mr Peterson is an absolute amazing Aurator that speaks with compation and conviction. He speaks very matterfactly on everything.
"they are high in openness but low in conscientiousness especially in orderliness." - JBP. I totally agree. Its very obvious on Dyson's temperament . Big on words, low on thinking. He was painful to watch and listen to.
Dyson sounds exactly like someone who has spent 20 years in a penitentiary. They develop a superfluous use of vocabulary in an attempt to convey intelligence that makes them nearly impossible to listen to.
Having Dr. Peterson as a prof has been life-changing. He rose to fame in a time in which the modern world needs people like him the most. I recently wrote a spoken word on my channel with a lot of his teachings and philosophies. I think we need to spread his message as much as we can in order to redirect our collective mindset. Thank you for all you do Dr. Peterson.
I remember that point in the debate where he asked how we know when the left goes too far and Michelle just goes "when there's violence". She completely missed the point of the question, which was to pinpoint the warning signs that lead to such things. She's perfectly content with waiting for the atrocities to happen, while JP wants to identify the kind of thinking that LEADS to it. And I think he's on the right track with "equality of outcome". I would push it further and say when the left begins demonizing a majority group, like STRAIGHT WHITE MEN.
I don't know how conscious Mr. Peterson was of this point of that debate, but he carried himself with such grace; he showed mercy, which is so needed these days and instructive for anyone. Well done
Don't let Dyson set the Agenda or terms of any debate in a visit to a black church. A genuinely neutral party needs to set it up and the participants should publicly sign-up to the terms, such as no ad hominem attacks.
Debate terms are for scared wussies, if someone uses an ad hominem you should be able to trust the audience to discount it. NO HOLDS BARRED, LIKE REAL MAN
yeah. Well Peterson would no doubt have more respect for the sacred than the Reverend Dyson and would get cowed. But it would make for a great show. And more people would be exposed to the hatred that can be so easily encouraged in a church.
The last part of the video was really eye-opening for me. I think the whole "fear of borders" thing also contributes to the left's view of gender. There are no borders between genders, or binary, but a free-flowing spectrum in which individuals can easily transition.
"Mr Dyson, I am now offering to take you with me to a library and we can read a book together because I think reading is so important and it's an experience I think you should have" - this is the presumptuous and insulting manner in which Dyson invited Peterson to come with him to a Black Baptist Church. Peterson could have invited Dyson to come meet the tribe Peterson is a honorary (?) member of.
Jordan I absolutely love you. I want you to be very careful about getting your sleep and your health in general. I understand all to well the mindset of "Soldiering On", but I can see in your productions when you are not at your best. And when you are at your best you are the best!!
What I found hilarious was how Dyson was interrupting Jordan and acting like a 3rd grader not getting his way. You know when the opposition stoops to that level, its game over.
This is exactly how another debate with Dyson would be: Peterson: "What's your argument?" Tyson: "THE IDENTITARIAN DISMAY OF THE COEVOLUTION OF RACE HATING SPECIFICALLY IN THE POST-MILLENIAL DYNAMIC SUPRESSION OF MINORITIES IMPOSED ON THOSE WHO RESIST LOVE IN ACCORDANCE WITH THEIR NATIONALISM..." Peterson: "So what's your argument?" Tyson: WOW, WHAT AN ANGRY WHITE MAN
Dyson really struggles with racism himself. He always says the same stuff: "Don't just be because of my race. I completely define myself and my arguments based, on my race and the special knowledge I have about racism. I don't like you're opinion as much as mine because you're white." Very easy example of racism.
Dyson seemed to want some of what he saw as Petersen's limelight: "Number one on Twitter" he said during the debate, not without a touch of invidious pique. That, coupled with the "you know I'm irresistible" like attitude that he trotted out in regards to comments he was making to Fry regarding Fry's state of homosexuality totally put me off the man.
The discussion of when you can go too far on the left is an interesting one. I wish Peterson did as good a job of expressing this during that debate as he does here. Peterson often lectures about the Soviet Union and uses Soviet communism as a clear case of what happens with radical leftism. I think if history is any guide, there are certain industries that caused complete catastrophe when they were controlled by the state: food production and agriculture being first and foremost. Calling for collectivized agriculture is a sign of going WAY too far. Equality of outcome is more of a broader ideological matter. I think absolute equality of outcome is as terrifying as Peterson says. Bringing that about would require the suppression of so many other good things in human life, like talent, freedom of choice, and economic and personal freedom, that it just would not be worth it. I think an even more fundamental sign is the belief in the state above the individual. That was the key sin of the Soviet Union. When you believe so much in the mission of the state collective missions that you are willing to ignore individual human rights, that usually leads to catastrophe.
I don' t know much about this stuff, but as a casual observer, it sounds like Mr. Peterson says only when the right makes ethnic and racial claims of superiority have they gone too far. Now let me get this straight, It's Mr. Peterson's assertion that so long as you don't make the claim it's not going too far? DOes he mean verbally, in writing, in action, legislatively, in rule of law? That's way too ambiguous of a statement, especially in light of Mr. Peterson pointing out the lack of clarity of when the left has gone too far. What if the right never verbally make the claim of superiority but legislate their ideology? America has a history of unspoken, implicit, and systemic racial prejudice. The statistics are indisputable. Historically speaking, the genesis of the American society was structured around the concept of race aka the groups that Mr. Peterson despises so much. Race is ingrained into the concept of Americana. African-American pioneers of the civil rights movement in the '60s weren't looking for their six seconds of fame. They were addressing the racial duplicity of a system that created a vacuum whereby identity politics exists. A system created and molded by the icons of right-wing American politics.
@@josephpark18254 When I say created and molded I'm referring to how we got to this point of identity politics. Not too mention, you speak as if there has been a consistent Republican platform. 80's Republicans would be looked on as progressive by today's Republican party general platform. The one universal point of commonality is that right-wing politics have always canonized the founding fathers and seek to conserve their ideals. Is that not the heart of conservatism in politics? You see my original point, don't you? 265 years of chattel slavery followed by the institution of slave codes, followed by Jim Crow laws, followed by systemic racism in the judicial system, banking, real estate, public transportation, professional sports, and on and on. At every turn throughout their early history, America has doubled down on creating an environment conducive to identity politics. I'm lost as to how Mr. Peterson doesn't see this. It could be very well that I don't see or know a crucial piece of the puzzle.
The borders analogy in the end was brilliant, surprised I've never heard it before. Especially when the left's position is moving further towards physical borders.
hey real question here - how did you guys get JP on your channel? I see you have about 8.6k subs, how did you entice him to come on the show? I would LOVE to eventually interview him with company but idk where to start. great video btw, and good interviewer.
“This can’t possibly be 8 1/2 minutes of Peterson talking about Dyson” Haha I actually appreciate the mildly clickbaity titles that lead me to learn something new about an unrelated topic
Not everything is complicated in life, thankfully still there are some things that belong to clear and obvious categories. Here is the one - Dyson is a Real racist promoting racial hatred and intolerance, all the while claiming that he is fighting it himself. What an ultimate irony! There is also no comparison whatsoever between him and Dr. Peterson on intellectual level, as sad as it is, but clearly he was still quite articulate and has some theatrical skills to capture not very sophisticated part of audience. Here is what I think - in order to avoid POSSIBLE future genocides people must take a long and hard look inside themselves, there is no way around it. Dr. Peterson is absolutely right there is evil (to different extent) in all of us and it must be put under control. Not easy at all, to say the least, especially for some people. This is one thing, but there is another one also which is deeply philosophical and troublesome to put it mildly. In our generally accepted moral and ethical universe it's kind of ok to kill animals even highly intelligent ones like pigs, who are smarter then dogs by the way (if by any chance you are not aware). Why so? I guess the one and only answer is this - human species is who we are and in fact on some parameters (NOT ALL by any stretch of imagination) we are DIFFERENT AND SUPERIOR to other species. It helped also that our IQ level and other characteristics are superior to pigs, dolphins and monkeys, well I hope you see where this logic goes - different species...... that's pretty much it, that's fundamental justification for us to kill and eat other creations of nature (or God) who happened to be less smart and evil then we humans So here is the question - is it a really big stretch of logic for some evil people to replace "species" with "race" especially considering that apparently it is the fact (or not?) that there are some average statistical differences between races?
would not draw lines between species when it comes to morality, since other species than human beings lack moral subjectivity. morality is a game of people. an animal won't conspire revenge or genocide. however people will, and without the game which we call morality this is ever likely to happen.
Lets here it Mr. White Supremacy..bring out Hernstein and Murray so we can dismantle it - and/or direct you tok the research lf those who already have.
I watched that debate and found it frustrating. I agree that the debate organizers did not frame the question properly because it seemed that at no point during the debate the four individuals were addressing the same question. They talked around each other. It didn’t help that the pro side members were both from the US. After watching this clip, I now understand what Peterson was attempting to establish during the debate.
Are people in the comments seriously blind to what they're doing to Dyson? It's *literally* what the left does to Peterson, for the exact opposite reasons. Of course those reasons make a difference, but these comments operate on virtually the same realm as the left regardless. "He's not worth the time of day", "He's a fool", "He's a black supremacist", and so on. They operate on the assumption they're right and therefore the other is wrong & should be dismissed. Let people fairly figure shit out for themselves, stop instilling on others what's good and what's evil. Seriously, that's the whole point. Why shouldn't Peterson speak on the opposition's podcast? There is no better way to reach those audiences, as we know (by these comments for example) that they won't go out to search for themselves. I don't think Dyson is usually a good person to debate, but the chance to speak directly to his audience is invaluable. Don't get why people are so against it.
Aspectioner the reason he doesn't join the podcast is JP knows it'll be filled with ad hominem attacks, victimhood, and race-baiting with very little exchange of ideas. Michael Eric Dyson is a crybaby exemplar of victimhood politics. JP has nothing to gain--especially from Dyson's audience. Don't believe me? Go on Dyson's Twitter and see how they interpret JP's content after the muck debate But judge for yourself. Watch the debate--the entire debate--and find any part of it where an undecided listener can say they came out of the debate better off than before. Undecideds like myself felt it was a complete waste of time. The audience had leftist seals clapping for Dyson and Goldberg while JP had to walk on eggshells to explain his position(s). That is not a debate. Edit: I'm a Delve subscriber, not a JP fan. I could care less about JP. But I do care about exchanging ideas absent of victimhood so we can solve real problems.
Well from the Munk debate specifically, the results turned 6% towards the right: www.munkdebates.com/The-Debates/Political-Correctness . I'd argue that's a difference; 6% of the people there realized the left's issues. This isn't about what Peterson has to gain, it's about what impact he can make. His recent moves are becoming more business rather than change oriented, and its a shame. I have watched the debate by the way, and I'm not saying Dyson is in any sense right. It's obvious he's more interested in huckstering than seeking the truth. But his audience are in a bubble where all they'll ever see is victimhood & the left's fallacious presentation of what the right is, white supremacists, or "mean mad white men". The point isn't do discuss ideas or alter Dyson's perspective, that's not gonna happen. But if a few people listening end up thinking to themselves "This Peterson guys isn't so wrong, maybe I should look up some of his stuff", I think that's a perfectly worthy investment. As long as Dyson can assure Peterson there will be a neutral party present to halt ad hominems and keep the discussion on topic, I see this as a great opportunity. It's not often you get to talk directly to people who in their minds aren't allowed to listen to you. It'd be much easier to solve problems if both sides agree on the solution.
Q: Who are you? A: "We are Borg". Q: What are you? A: "We are Borg". Q: What do you do? A: "Empathy with alignment". Q: What do you want? A: "Equality of outcome".
Dyson, for selfish reasons, just wants to be associated with Dr. Peterson a second time. He knows the more he can be in Dr. Peterson‘s presence, and bring about some form of controversy, that he will become more popular, notable, etc.
Dyson couldn't string one sentence together during the Munk debate without mentioning something to do with his colour, and how he was being oppressed by the mean white man, it was truly terrible.
thanks dr. Peterson for calling out that race-baiter! we have to deal with it all the time in the US. We need to stop funding universities and colleges with public Monies! or at least cut it drastically! and get rid of the Marxist professors!
I'm more concerned about Peterson being too much of a coward to debate Douglas Lain(Zero Books) after making statements like "Marxist supporters don't debate me... they don't ask me to do it". He agreed to at first, but then backed out.
Agreed. This whole talking about Marxists and Marxism but never actually attempting to have a discussion with a Marxist is real cowardly. I would love a Peterson and Zizek/Lain Debate/Discussion. It would be so much more interesting than the usual echo chamber that most Peterson videos are.
Yeah, his whole caricature of what Marxism is and what a Marxist believes are way off. He definitely should debate some intelligent academic Marxists such as Richard Wolff.
The only works from a marxist that I ever appreciated and respected, short of Marx himself, are from Zizek, and I would like to see this debate. I think it could be interesting for everyone. All the other ones would just turn into yet another useless, unproductive conversation about exactly the same stuff that has been discussed for the past 5 years without changing anything, and the comment section would be just another shitfest of righties and lefties throwing feces at each others.
Really? You're going to insinuate that Peterson is a coward, based upon what? Because he hasn't had a debate with someone you think he should? From Douglas Lain's own twitter "Unfortunately his schedule is not open to book any interviews at the moment". Having prior engagements to attend is cowardice? I don't think any of the assholes in this thread know the definition of "cowardice". In no way did he agree and then back out you presumptuous, impatient bullshitter. I agree that it would be an interesting debate. Then again I'm not sure I want to agree with a thread where complete unknowns assert that Peterson, a well studied man, has no grasp on the concept of Marxism. How about you assholes busily huffing your own fucking farts enlighten the rest of us with what you seem to think you know that everyone else is too fucking cowardly or stupid to comprehend. Karl Marx had a body count in the millions at the hands of tyrants. I assert that you are the fucking cowards, too busy self-righteously demanding free shit and equality of outcome for the parasites of the world to cope with the fact that you are owed exactly nothing.
I can't go a day without listening to JBP - sets me up because I can think there is one voice out there that is rational and sane and there are millions of us who know this and thank him for his contribution to mankind. I really mean that. Also, for the leftists to keep banging on about racism to me is more insulting for the minorities. Leave us alone and we'll figure it out.
The last half of the video where Peterson explains the problem on the left vs right regarding borders etc etc...that was the most articulate and concise explanation ever. He's absolutely correct.
It doesnt matter what topic or location petterson debates he will be fine hes a genious and if his opposition has valid ideas point of veiws he will admit they are right and thats what makes him awesome openminded and willing to learn
Brian Tyler Cohen on his access to White House officials, Democratic messaging and more ruclips.net/video/aCp3zQLjxfQ/видео.html
It's frustrating that people have vilified Jordan without actually listening to him articulate his ideas, which are very reasonable.
Yep. Liberals.
those will be the future "walk away moment" people
Well that’s the whole anti-intellectual approach to reasonable people. Check out his debate with Greg Salmieri for a breath of fresh air 👍🏼
itscolin81 it's my opinion that it's your opinion that it's her opinion that his ideas are very reasonable.
Self-loathing Chav Scum Ideas either correspond to the facts of reality, or they don't. Whether they're reasonable or not depends ultimately upon this correspondence, not anyone's subjective whim.
Dyson, who I know nothing about, struck me in the debates as a man of weak character with a vocabulary. Sounds like he studies a Thesaurus instead of human nature.
Came across like a gold plated motorcycle ashtray.
This thesaurus complaint is like a mantra now by the Petersonites. He doesn't use a thesaurus--he uses diction. He's also a preacher. Shocking stuff.
Randall Ball You're right. His diction is so good he even makes up words of his own.
Lucky Skunk name one.
Randall Ball
People talk about him studying a thesaurus in part because the words he chooses to use often have the correct denotation but the wrong connotation. That's what people are noticing when they say that someone is TRYING to sound intelligent as opposed to just sounding intelligent.
I compare Michael Dyson to Russell Brand sometimes and Brand makes more sense, more often even with his love for big words and even though he never went to university.
LIke Qui-Gon Jinn said "The ability to speak does NOT make one intelligent." This is the perfect classification for Dyson.
Agreed ! Even parrots & crows can talk. They don't know what they are saying but they can talk.
I like how YOU are the gatekeeper to everything intelligent. Dyson has a PhD from Princeton is an accomplished author and is a professor at Georgetown but still has to prove something to you. Pure comedy.
Linwood Taliaferro: Weak trolling of yours. Precisely because Dyson has a PhD degree and is an author and an educator, he has to prove that he is worthy of being a voice of reason for ordinary people. In that debate, he has failed miserably, as an alleged authority and it was clear even from a point of view of common folks, that can have a healthy reason, even if not as sophisticated and eloquent as Dyson's. (although even that claim is dubious when someone is rapping a mental diarrhea.) It seems you are trying to be a gatekeeper for healthy minded individuals on behalf of Dyson. Which is a joke indeed.
Why does he have to prove that he is worthy of being a voice of reason for ordinary people? Says who? How does that further legitimize him? And who are you exactly?
I came to the Munk debate as a fan of Peterson. Dyson made intelligent salient points and I wanted J.P. to respond in kind. But what I got was an easily frustrated petulant kinda fellow who got hung up on being called a "white man". I think J. Peterson is brilliant and I've listened to hours of his interviews. But I object to Dyson being dismissed as some uninformed punk. He gave just as good as he got. Sure he is a verbose windbag but the dude is very aware of what he speaks of.
Linwood Taliaferro: lol Who am I? Who among us can be really sure, of who we really are? Who are you to ask me, who am I, exactly? Dyson and that woman, which name I have forgotten happily, were really lowering the level of debate on the subject of political correctness and such. Which was disappointing. That said, I can give you that, Peterson wasn't in his best form either. He kind of sucked, from what I saw. Only Stephen Fry was performing brilliantly, in my view. And, I never said or implied, Dyson was an uninformed punk. On the contrary, I had higher expectation, than what we got from him. At first I thought, oh shit, he is good. He's gonna be a tough opponent for Peterson. But, after a while, I realized, there is not much substance to what he was saying, at bullet speed. Well, the debate was not very good overall, except Stephen Fry's monologues.
My daily dose of JBP.
Chitty Bang Bang.....
Go back to your cave.
Chitty Bang Bang, "weak-minded prick". That's an ironic statement from someone who lacks both originality in their username and the self-control to resist being provocative when replying to a perfectly innocent comment.
That's what the doc ordered bro
JP is incredibly mediocre, watch him get out-logicked by a fucking comedian and JP changes his stance on civil rights in under 40 seconds.
ruclips.net/video/KbriPG-cCvY/видео.htmlm40s
While you're add it read this article that dissects everything Peterson. I know you will read because you are all so high-minded and in search of truth...
www.currentaffairs.org/2018/03/the-intellectual-we-deserve
Cody Davies, I've seen that interview with Jim Jeffferies. Jordan Peterson will probably be the first to admit that his first priority isn't discussing politics and gender issues. You can see it when he does interviews on said topics, he just seems disconnected. He is passionate about helping people, that's all. Look at his recent interview with Joe Rogan where he talks about his current tour. He gets really emotional when discussing how people approach him and tell him that they're getting their lives on track. That's what he is most concerned with. His observations on politics and social issues just happen to tie in in some way or another to his psychological work and they are based on scientific studies. They don't strike me as intentionally provocative. I could understand why Milo Yianiaoosposlosi8ilosuusisljj (spelling issues) would cop the flak he deserves but I find that JP receives far more hate than what is warranted.
I'm not trying to debate you, mate. Because in this day and age, of course he is going to piss people off with what he says. Everyone does. The bigger the public platform, the more people you piss off.
Jordan was the anchor in that debate, and Fry smashed it out of the park. Brilliant debate.
Well the debate itself wasn't really brilliant, it just kind of just proved JP and Fry's points.
@@smitchered That's because the political correctness debate is fairly one sided because of how obvious the answer is
I watched the Munk debate and for a very short period I was impressed with Dyson and his use of language but then I realised he didn't actually put that linguistic ability to any sensible, potent use. Fry and Jordan utterly fried (no pun intended) the opposition with thought, intelligence, wit and calmness. I could see Peterson getting more than frustrated with Dyson and kudos to him keeping his cool...
JP feelings are hurt for life!!!
Peterson needs to grow his beard back and look like a old wise Jedi.
Lastly More Dont judge a book by its cover 😎
Destroy Marxists, I shall
Obi-wan asked him to shave because it made him feel inadequate.
agreed, lol
He is a real life Jedi!
The Peterson/Frye vs. Dyson/Goldberg debate reminded me of an old adage:
'Arguing with an intelligent person is difficult. Arguing with a stupid person is impossible.'
Peterson is an angry old white man. People just like him can't see it.
@@jamberry8026 you make the best satire. Keep it up! :))
@@gingfreecss3808 Because you know it's true while you have nothing to be angry about. Your momma is better at satire than me. She had you, didn't she?
@@jamberry8026 Lol… You’d benefit immensely by listening to Jordan Peterson’s 12 Rules lectures. You’d quickly learn that he’s not so much angry as he is embarrassed by the horrible state of higher education and intellectual discourse.
@@jamberry8026 ah, another ad hominem attack!
In the U.S Eric Dyson is regarded as a race baiter. I thought he was a poor choice for the Monk Debate. He's a singled minded one trick pony who tries to impress people with a vocabulary that feels beyond him. Dyson suggests that you should go with him to a Black Baptists Church. He's apparently spent quite a lot of time in Black churches, yet it hasn't developed his ability to debate or bring anything else to any discussion but the race card. If visiting a Black church hasn't done him much for him,....why should you go??
Anthony Johnson, it's clear that Dayson gets his cadence and incoherent word salad from southern sermons. He wants to come across as a Martin Luther King but ends up a Dr Suse.
+Shane Na Dr. Seuss is an incredibly talented poet. I am really not sure why you'd evoke that.
Good point!
I was shocked by his use of personal insults and refusal to apologize for them. Coming from a pastor? He did seem very self conscious about his ability to sound oratorical, which came up flat not because he’s untalented but because he had flimsy arguments. One thing he did say that gave me some insight was his comments about feeling that white people still have more of the power and are just whining about losing a little. He also explained for me that he believes that since the framework of our society was created by whites there is no possibility for an even playing field. The whole thing must be broken down, replaced and countered, white culture muffled. Never mind that it’s the culture that raised him up.
You make some really good point, Cynthia. Dyson talks about about " Systemic Racism," and " Institutional Racism." Meaning, I suppose, that if the system and our institutions are racist by their nature, then the system and the institutions, created by whites, must be brought down, along with the " white mindset " that created them. It's a very flawed hypothesis. It's an attack on an ethnic group. As Dr. Peterson lays out in his arguments...." this has all been done before in other areas and countries in the world,...and always with tragic results.".
As a black man I used to eat the identical politics that was fed to me. 10 years ago I would've been a huge Eric Dyson fan, but now I find myself following great minds like Jordan Peterson, Thomas Sowell, Ben Shapiro. And I feel much more aware of how the real world works.
You should find your own meanings and not let anybody flood your mind. Great thinkers like those you named can be wrong, after all. Always question yourself and others after learning something new or a new idea. You wouldn't want someone to give away all your clothing or belongings would you? Now do that same scenario with your mind. You will find it is necessary to question all things right or wrong.
You just named the devils first team!!!
So you’re black, are you? I’m looking for you in the Constitution!!!
As a black man if you don't think Michael Eric Dyson is not a great mind😳 that just shows your ignorance
As a white man I don't give two shits
Don’t give dyson the time of day. He’s not worth it
Wild MissingNo
Dyson was disappointing in the Munk Debate. I listened ... hoping to hear something worth my time.
WSD 2009 who, dyson? Or one of the two in the video?
Ok, who else on the left would you like JP to debate? He can't just spend ALL his time in the right-wing echo chamber can he?
Cody Davies
Excellent point. I'm interested in Mr. Dyson's point of view and his proposed solutions. Mr. Dyson is correct that there are problems ... but he isn't presenting a path to improve things.
Is this a tribalism problem?
No one said he should spend his time in an echo chamber
She said "Google it" over and over and she was wrong, HAHA!
Jeff Reber Google is just a social construct. You must hate women.
@@kungfoochicken08 LMAO ...
She's an editor at the New York Times. I wasn't surprised at all that she was wrong.
@@kungfoochicken08 Most of the men who follow Peterson hate women! I wouldn't be surprised if the next serial killer of women has Peterson paraphenilia in their house!
@@jamberry8026 You do the best satire.
He's just trying to take advantage of JBP popularity.
who isn't
So? Are you going to use that excuse for ANY debate between JP and someone on the left? Who would you rather JP debated, who is "popular" enough in your eyes?
Because, Cody, some less popular folk are genuinely interested in having a genuine debate.
Dyson, on the other hand, is not a genuine individual.
It pay to watch Peterson disassemble Alexandria Ocasia-Cortez..She IS the new face of the left.
He wants to ride Jordan's coat tails.
‘Its not like there are right wing identity politics professors, there are zero of them’ love me some JP
Seriously lol. If there are right wing conservative teachers they most likely are the ones who tell there students they don't talk politics and religion in class. And honestly that's how it should be. These Marxist teachers are indoctrinating these young kids and it's embarrassing
Dorian Whitney as a parent of a son entering his junior year in high school, I’m struggling to understand how any parent would encourage their kids to go to college.
There are still good ones! The one I attend manages to still produce highly competent people.
DinDinDunDun Absolutely, JP himself is a tenured professor at UofT 😉
Metolius9 I'm only 28 and finished college a few years ago. I went for a while. I got lucky and didn't really deal with idiocy, but the classes that would get heated with debates were pretty much classes like history of religion and logic. As far as math and chemistry, those classes were just about that. I'd say it depends what degree you go for which you will deal with less sjw crap. Business and accounting is what I did, and I dealt with 0 sjw crap.
Dr. Peterson, do NOT debate that fool. You'll only lend him credence. He is an intellectual poseur and should remain a intellectual poseur.
This is laughable.
I can't figure out if this is your genuine opinion or if you just inserted an unnecessary comma. "Do not debate that fool, Dyson" is an instruction to Michael Dyson and an insult to Jordan Peterson. "Do not debate that fool Dyson" is an instruction to Jordan Peterson and an insult to Michael Dyson. Which one were you going for?
veevalaveeda honestly i think he means dyson is the fool.
Agree. Dyson would use the opportunity to do one thing: try to create sound bites to edit and make Peterson look bad. That was his only goal in the monk debate. Dyson is a charlatan.
+MrJamberee Labeling him with a cardinal objective is really dishonest.
Dyson is wretched. Unbearable. He should contact Cornel West for debate/discussion.
He should debate/discuss with Zizek.
I find West to peddle a similar race baiting message... albeit a little less demagogic than the likes of Dyson and Coates
From what I have heard West has cut ties with Dyson because of Dyson’s pandering, sycophantism, and disingenuousness.
He and Cornel West are friends. You have Fred Hampton for and avatar and don't even know that? Impostor!
@@jamesburke9865 Michael Eric Dyson fears none but God!
JP is one amazing man. The monk debate exposed how manipulative and hateful the leftists are, so I'm glad it happened.
and most importantly intolerable, autocratic and racist. Yes, in fact, real racist and racial haters.
...how manipulative and hateful the ***extreme leftists are. apologies, just trying to distinguish ourselves more clearly these days --a wise man said it would be important to do so :]
Kevin Corso True lol. It's an extreme, but it seems like its getting louder. The walkaway movement just started because of it. I'm not sure I will ever vote democrat for a while after watching the state of the union months ago. They sat for the national anthem and didn't stand for actual good things like low unemployment. I just can't fathom the stupidity on their side. I really hate the two party system. Maybe with trump, the system has already crashed and maybe we will find a more moderate voice someday.
my exact hope as well; as dave chappelle said in his one of his recent specials "trump may be the 'lie' that saves us all"
The strozk page texts also revealed how manipulative and evil the leftists are.
Peterson's name has been drug through the mud, I respect him so much for what he's going through for us. Jordan, whatever happens, do not drink the hemlock
Double thumbs up for crystal clear video production
The one time I really agreed with Dyson and was actually impressed by his knowledge on the given topic and eloquence of his speech, I realized he was talking about vacuums. I immediately ordered two and anxiously await their delivery.
In that debate Peterson asked; "When does political correctness go too far?"
Michelle Goldberg replied;" when it is censorious".
The definition of policial correctness is "the avoidance of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against."
In other words, political correctness is censorious by definition. It was an own goal. Like much of what Goldberg said. She was hopelessly hypocritical but since Dyson was outright racist and loves the sound of his own voice most of the attention was placed on his bigotry and not Goldberg's hypocrisy.
Dave XB it’s interesting when you look at the heritage of most of the people calling for political correctness. Including Michelle Goldberg. These people invented victim politics. Don’t forget: “They cry out in pain while they strike you”
Yeah, I was laughing the whole time that chick talked. She was trying so hard to stay relevant with their arguments that she's either vague or contradictory.
She could barely make a coherent argument and just kept rambling without getting to the point.
Michelle Goldberg is a joke. She made a fool of herself by criticizing JP over a soundbite without fully investigating the content of his position. She's a knee-jerk hack and displayed her seemingly boundless stupidity for the world to see.
Dyson spends a great deal of energy and time creating non-arguments. Lesser thinkers love this, and support him for it.
Eh! Is that why he only really attracts young white men who have problems with attracting women and have a problem with their own sexuality?
@@jamberry8026 "He" being Dyson? Probably.
@@goodtalker Does Dyson attract young white men as followers or is it Peterson? Peterson certainly isn't attracting very many young white women the way he talks so badly about them.
@@jamberry8026 My first response to your first comment is asking you who "he" is?
My original post is clear, and the race, sex, sexual orientation, of "lesser thinkers" is not at all relevant.
I was reminded of a quote from Orwell the first time I heard Mr. Dyson speak.
"The great enemy of clear language is insincerity. When there is a gap between one’s real and one’s declared aims, one turns as it were instinctively to long words and exhausted idioms, like a cuttlefish spurting out ink."
Dyson kept throwing strawmans, ad hominems and all sorts of fallacies to compensate for the fact that he couldn't debate with the actual facts.
He wasn't there to debate, he was there to crack a few jokes and preach to the audience.
Dyson relies on the impact of his vocabulary and orator skills on audiences of low to average intelligence. It's all about style over substance. His arguments are actually vacuous, rarely if ever address the questions posed to him, and almost make me believe he doesn't really understand the actual issues being debated.
He did debate, but you are too busy with your nose up Petersons behind that you can't hear or see.
Agree, he was there to squeeze every drop of fame and opportunity out of the event to further himself. I believe him to be actually evil because I believe by looking at his arguments, he never tried to beat jordan with substance. Adhominoms, jokes and buzzwords. He speaks like the typical traveling preacher who runs church to church to put on performances for pay, while hiding behind god.
By his own admission, the debate was a sham. He insisted that due to his skin color, Peterson was disqualified from meaningfully weighing in on the subject matter, therefore the whole thing was DOA.
You don't even know what strawman is.
Dyson was a complete fool and I hope Jordan Peterson does not take him up on his podcast request he's not worth it totally unworthy. Of course he would never follow through with anything that he says. "go to a church" give me a break!
He definitely shouldn't. You could tell Dyson was jealous of him in the monk debates for all the exposure he has gotten in the last 2 years. If he goes on Dyson's podcast it will probably be his most listened podcast, and Dyson doesn't deserve that.
Dyson's main ploy is the race card. It seems like that's all he knows - and most of his conclusions about race seem to cast white people as oppressors who are unable to even know when they are being racist, and black people as victims, and the only people qualified to recognize racism.
Talk about being lost in your own narrative! He can't - or won't - give white people any credit for doing good things, or having pure motives. It's perplexing, because there are many black People who don't agree with him, and aren't like that at all.
Another debate with Dyson would be more of the same - him bludgeoning Peterson over race, and Peterson trying to conduct an intellectually honest discussion, but constantly having to fend off charges of racism. Completely unproductive.
JP is incredibly mediocre, watch him get out-logicked by a fucking comedian and JP changes his stance on civil rights in under 40 seconds.
ruclips.net/video/KbriPG-cCvY/видео.htmlm40s
While you're add it read this article that dissects everything Peterson. I know you will read because you are all so high-minded and in search of truth...
www.currentaffairs.org/2018/03/the-intellectual-we-deserve
Cody Davies um Peterson admitting that he may be wrong is not a weakness it's a strength. If you expect everyone to be right all the time you're delusional. A lesser person would try in vain to hold a position just to stroke their ego. I don't think anybody is perfect do you?
George Cosestet- Being able to admit you're wrong = good
Fancying yourself as great intellectual when you obviously haven't given any thought to one of the most talked about issues of our day, an issue that you yourself have opined deeply held beliefs = bad
Outstanding - ask an excellent question & then listen.
I know I’m probably a late subscriber. As this video gave my the inclination.
But I have to say: The production quality with “The Delve” is exceptional. Great camera work, fantastic picture quality, with an emphasis on the guests POV rather than an undercurrent bias view.
Cheers!
Dyson is nothing but a verbose car salesman and Jordan Peterson shouldn't have nothing else to do with him.
Beat me to it..
I hate to sound negative, I hate to sound negative
Peterson don't ain't hasn't got no nothing to do with no Dyson.
Not even putting Jordo's ass in no 2007 Cadillac.
When I hear Dyson, I just hear Don King with a different vehicle...
I rather enjoy him debating, they both end up making a strong argument in Petersons favor. Jordan sets it up and Dyson dunks it with his eloquent ignorance.
Peterson: I will.
Dyson: GOOD! I welcome you to t-
Peterson: Under one condition...Larry Elder will be our mediator.
Dyson uses words like "bruh" during his debates. It immediately makes him sound like an unprofessional frat boy, and that's compounded by the way he always seems to be fishing for laughs from the audience.
Don't forget he quoted Beyonce.
Eh1 That's your perception!
@@jamberry8026 he also used the nword during a public debate and the perception is documented as a digital recording. Not that he offended anyone, but it kind of tells you what level of discussion you can achieve with that kind of opponent in a debate
You can do all that and still argue soundly and on point. Dyson descended into rambling instead, but that is not inseparably tied to him adopting the style you describe.
Amazing what Jordan puts up with! He’s a good man doing a hard thing.
Dyson is the definition of a pseudo intellectual
Peterson pulls shit out of his ass and calls it data then gets mad if you question it! That's what Dyson was talking about, but you're too full of your own bullshit that it went right over your head!
@@jamberry8026 Can you provide me with one instance where Peterson pulled "shit out of his ass" and called it data and got mad after being questioned about it?
@@this_rishi He always does. When he said women are out of control. What kind of control? He is also paranoid and thinks that the government is going to make it illegal to call transgenders anything except women. That is just utter nonsense. He also calls civil rights activists and advocates SJW which is a Nazi term for people like MLK and BLM and many others. It's a dysphemism and he well knows it. He also claims that men don't make more money than women and that men do jobs that women don't. I am a woman and am a millwright, welder, carpenter and auto mechanic. I am now retired, but caught much hell from white men who didn't want me to work with them. So Peterson is also a liar.
@@jamberry8026 none of the above things have been said or ever existed in the perceivable realm of public debate reality, as far as i can tell, not even mr. Dyson questioning any evidence referenced by mr. Peterson during the debate. Unless you cite or link materials proving otherwise, your accusations are nothing but verbal harassment
@@this_rishi When he claims that men aren't paid more than women. You can even google that and find that it's a lie!
A good interview. A joy when someone gives Peterson time to talk
As a Canadian-Haitian now living in the USA, I couldn't help but roll my eyes when Dyson put Peterson in the "Rich old white racist republican" box. At that point, it became obvious he was mischaracterizing his interlocutor.
First, anyone who's even so slightly aware of Peterson background knows that's not where he comes from.
Secondly, that archetype doesn't even exist in Eastern Canada. You don't have white old people oppressing blacks; that's simply not a reality.
When he invited him to a Baptist church, I thought: "Peterson has been accused of many things, but since when is he supposed to be racist?" where the hell did that one from?
Michael Dyson is one of these elite black Americans that looked down in regular blue collar black folks. He has a high level intellect so everything for him is all about the racialism of America. Mr Peterson is an absolute amazing Aurator that speaks with compation and conviction. He speaks very matterfactly on everything.
Great interview. If you just listen to the audio, it's like Conner McGregor is interviewing Kermit.
Haha!
Kenneth Griffin 😂
Jordan Peterson has yet to master the "muppet flail".
🤣 just had to give that visual. Now I can't un see it.
At least Kermit got Miss Piggee! Peterson has to teach you half wits how to even attract a woman!
"they are high in openness but low in conscientiousness especially in orderliness." - JBP. I totally agree. Its very obvious on Dyson's temperament . Big on words, low on thinking. He was painful to watch and listen to.
Truth is always painful for people like you. That's how white fragility was coined in the first place!
Dyson sounds exactly like someone who has spent 20 years in a penitentiary. They develop a superfluous use of vocabulary in an attempt to convey intelligence that makes them nearly impossible to listen to.
It's a form of lying. Prison is a university for learning corruption.
Dyson is clearly trying to get a slice of that JBP-fame-pie.
Don't give him any.
"Never get in between Michael Eric Dyson and a thesaurus.". Larry Elder
You spelled uncle tom wrong!
@@jamberry8026 And you spelled your name wrong.
Its 'idiot'
Having Dr. Peterson as a prof has been life-changing. He rose to fame in a time in which the modern world needs people like him the most. I recently wrote a spoken word on my channel with a lot of his teachings and philosophies. I think we need to spread his message as much as we can in order to redirect our collective mindset. Thank you for all you do Dr. Peterson.
Man, the camera quality on the Peterson headshot is fantastic. It’s weird that that is what I noticed, but holy cow.
I remember that point in the debate where he asked how we know when the left goes too far and Michelle just goes "when there's violence". She completely missed the point of the question, which was to pinpoint the warning signs that lead to such things. She's perfectly content with waiting for the atrocities to happen, while JP wants to identify the kind of thinking that LEADS to it. And I think he's on the right track with "equality of outcome". I would push it further and say when the left begins demonizing a majority group, like STRAIGHT WHITE MEN.
Michael Dyson disgusted me with how he went at Jordan. If I ever come across Mike, I'll let him know he lost alot of points.
A legend and Canadian historical figure in the making.
People are blind if they think Michael dyson had any solid points against JP
I don't know how conscious Mr. Peterson was of this point of that debate, but he carried himself with such grace; he showed mercy, which is so needed these days and instructive for anyone. Well done
Don't let Dyson set the Agenda or terms of any debate in a visit to a black church. A genuinely neutral party needs to set it up and the participants should publicly sign-up to the terms, such as no ad hominem attacks.
Debate terms are for scared wussies, if someone uses an ad hominem you should be able to trust the audience to discount it.
NO HOLDS BARRED, LIKE REAL MAN
yeah. Well Peterson would no doubt have more respect for the sacred than the Reverend Dyson and would get cowed. But it would make for a great show. And more people would be exposed to the hatred that can be so easily encouraged in a church.
And what is even the point of going to a "black church" anyway..
The lighting is very good in this video
The last part of the video was really eye-opening for me. I think the whole "fear of borders" thing also contributes to the left's view of gender. There are no borders between genders, or binary, but a free-flowing spectrum in which individuals can easily transition.
Superb camera quality.
"Mr Dyson, I am now offering to take you with me to a library and we can read a book together because I think reading is so important and it's an experience I think you should have" - this is the presumptuous and insulting manner in which Dyson invited Peterson to come with him to a Black Baptist Church. Peterson could have invited Dyson to come meet the tribe Peterson is a honorary (?) member of.
I don’t know much about Dyson but as much as he spoke, the one thing I noticed was no resolutions, or solutions.
No reason to debate Dyson, Dr Peterson. Once a man makes racial insults at you.. you can just discard any further discussion.
It only insults if it's true! That's why you all using the n word and calling Black people that doesn't work anymore!
@@jamberry8026 Hahahaha, go back to twitter dyson fanboy
Jordan I absolutely love you. I want you to be very careful about getting your sleep and your health in general. I understand all to well the mindset of "Soldiering On", but I can see in your productions when you are not at your best. And when you are at your best you are the best!!
What I found hilarious was how Dyson was interrupting Jordan and acting like a 3rd grader not getting his way. You know when the opposition stoops to that level, its game over.
RUclips needs a love button just for Jorden Peterson! God I wish more people were as level headed about left and right.
This is exactly how another debate with Dyson would be:
Peterson: "What's your argument?"
Tyson: "THE IDENTITARIAN DISMAY OF THE COEVOLUTION OF RACE HATING SPECIFICALLY IN THE POST-MILLENIAL DYNAMIC SUPRESSION OF MINORITIES IMPOSED ON THOSE WHO RESIST LOVE IN ACCORDANCE WITH THEIR NATIONALISM..."
Peterson: "So what's your argument?"
Tyson: WOW, WHAT AN ANGRY WHITE MAN
Best lighting I've ever seen in a podcast, including Peterson's tie, WOW!
Dyson really struggles with racism himself. He always says the same stuff: "Don't just be because of my race. I completely define myself and my arguments based, on my race and the special knowledge I have about racism. I don't like you're opinion as much as mine because you're white." Very easy example of racism.
I would seriously like to k ow what camera is being used for the JBP close ups. Great interview!
Dyson seemed to want some of what he saw as Petersen's limelight: "Number one on Twitter" he said during the debate, not without a touch of invidious pique. That, coupled with the "you know I'm irresistible" like attitude that he trotted out in regards to comments he was making to Fry regarding Fry's state of homosexuality totally put me off the man.
Dyson also defined jealousy as love for what another has. He is projecting and crying for the success that Steven and Jordan have.
I would so love to have a sit down with professor Peterson... A very sharp man.
The discussion of when you can go too far on the left is an interesting one. I wish Peterson did as good a job of expressing this during that debate as he does here.
Peterson often lectures about the Soviet Union and uses Soviet communism as a clear case of what happens with radical leftism. I think if history is any guide, there are certain industries that caused complete catastrophe when they were controlled by the state: food production and agriculture being first and foremost. Calling for collectivized agriculture is a sign of going WAY too far.
Equality of outcome is more of a broader ideological matter. I think absolute equality of outcome is as terrifying as Peterson says. Bringing that about would require the suppression of so many other good things in human life, like talent, freedom of choice, and economic and personal freedom, that it just would not be worth it.
I think an even more fundamental sign is the belief in the state above the individual. That was the key sin of the Soviet Union. When you believe so much in the mission of the state collective missions that you are willing to ignore individual human rights, that usually leads to catastrophe.
Saw Peterson, Harris and Murray at the 3 Arena in Dublin on Sat, it was awesome- I'm a massive Harris fan but really enjoyed Peterson and Murray also
I don' t know much about this stuff, but as a casual observer, it sounds like Mr. Peterson says only when the right makes ethnic and racial claims of superiority have they gone too far. Now let me get this straight, It's Mr. Peterson's assertion that so long as you don't make the claim it's not going too far? DOes he mean verbally, in writing, in action, legislatively, in rule of law? That's way too ambiguous of a statement, especially in light of Mr. Peterson pointing out the lack of clarity of when the left has gone too far. What if the right never verbally make the claim of superiority but legislate their ideology? America has a history of unspoken, implicit, and systemic racial prejudice. The statistics are indisputable. Historically speaking, the genesis of the American society was structured around the concept of race aka the groups that Mr. Peterson despises so much. Race is ingrained into the concept of Americana. African-American pioneers of the civil rights movement in the '60s weren't looking for their six seconds of fame. They were addressing the racial duplicity of a system that created a vacuum whereby identity politics exists. A system created and molded by the icons of right-wing American politics.
@@josephpark18254 When I say created and molded I'm referring to how we got to this point of identity politics. Not too mention, you speak as if there has been a consistent Republican platform. 80's Republicans would be looked on as progressive by today's Republican party general platform. The one universal point of commonality is that right-wing politics have always canonized the founding fathers and seek to conserve their ideals. Is that not the heart of conservatism in politics? You see my original point, don't you? 265 years of chattel slavery followed by the institution of slave codes, followed by Jim Crow laws, followed by systemic racism in the judicial system, banking, real estate, public transportation, professional sports, and on and on. At every turn throughout their early history, America has doubled down on creating an environment conducive to identity politics. I'm lost as to how Mr. Peterson doesn't see this. It could be very well that I don't see or know a crucial piece of the puzzle.
Awesome production!!!
The borders analogy in the end was brilliant, surprised I've never heard it before. Especially when the left's position is moving further towards physical borders.
hey real question here - how did you guys get JP on your channel? I see you have about 8.6k subs, how did you entice him to come on the show? I would LOVE to eventually interview him with company but idk where to start. great video btw, and good interviewer.
It's not just a RUclips Channel. Interview went on Ireland's biggest entertainment site and national radio
Mike Sheridan so how did u guys coerce him to come on?
Dyson is a clown
This video is insanely High quality good stuff man subed
“This can’t possibly be 8 1/2 minutes of Peterson talking about Dyson”
Haha I actually appreciate the mildly clickbaity titles that lead me to learn something new about an unrelated topic
Where is the full interview?
Not everything is complicated in life, thankfully still there are some things that belong to clear and obvious categories. Here is the one - Dyson is a Real racist promoting racial hatred and intolerance, all the while claiming that he is fighting it himself. What an ultimate irony!
There is also no comparison whatsoever between him and Dr. Peterson on intellectual level, as sad as it is, but clearly he was still quite articulate and has some theatrical skills to capture not very sophisticated part of audience.
Here is what I think - in order to avoid POSSIBLE future genocides people must take a long and hard look inside themselves, there is no way around it. Dr. Peterson is absolutely right there is evil (to different extent) in all of us and it must be put under control. Not easy at all, to say the least, especially for some people.
This is one thing, but there is another one also which is deeply philosophical and troublesome to put it mildly.
In our generally accepted moral and ethical universe it's kind of ok to kill animals even highly intelligent ones like pigs, who are smarter then dogs by the way (if by any chance you are not aware). Why so? I guess the one and only answer is this - human species is who we are and in fact on some parameters (NOT ALL by any stretch of imagination) we are DIFFERENT AND SUPERIOR to other species. It helped also that our IQ level and other characteristics are superior to pigs, dolphins and monkeys, well I hope you see where this logic goes - different species...... that's pretty much it, that's fundamental justification for us to kill and eat other creations of nature (or God) who happened to be less smart and evil then we humans
So here is the question - is it a really big stretch of logic for some evil people to replace "species" with "race" especially considering that apparently it is the fact (or not?) that there are some average statistical differences between races?
would not draw lines between species when it comes to morality, since other species than human beings lack moral subjectivity. morality is a game of people. an animal won't conspire revenge or genocide. however people will, and without the game which we call morality this is ever likely to happen.
First prove race.
Lets here it Mr. White Supremacy..bring out Hernstein and Murray so we can dismantle it - and/or direct you tok the research lf those who already have.
I watched that debate and found it frustrating. I agree that the debate organizers did not frame the question properly because it seemed that at no point during the debate the four individuals were addressing the same question. They talked around each other. It didn’t help that the pro side members were both from the US. After watching this clip, I now understand what Peterson was attempting to establish during the debate.
Boys he looks fantastic
Currently reading Dyson and Peterson's recent releases, both great reads!! They can learn from each other.
Does Dyson write any better than he debates?
@@McCracken216 yes he does actually lmao
Are people in the comments seriously blind to what they're doing to Dyson? It's *literally* what the left does to Peterson, for the exact opposite reasons.
Of course those reasons make a difference, but these comments operate on virtually the same realm as the left regardless. "He's not worth the time of day", "He's a fool", "He's a black supremacist", and so on. They operate on the assumption they're right and therefore the other is wrong & should be dismissed.
Let people fairly figure shit out for themselves, stop instilling on others what's good and what's evil. Seriously, that's the whole point.
Why shouldn't Peterson speak on the opposition's podcast? There is no better way to reach those audiences, as we know (by these comments for example) that they won't go out to search for themselves. I don't think Dyson is usually a good person to debate, but the chance to speak directly to his audience is invaluable. Don't get why people are so against it.
Aspectioner the reason he doesn't join the podcast is JP knows it'll be filled with ad hominem attacks, victimhood, and race-baiting with very little exchange of ideas. Michael Eric Dyson is a crybaby exemplar of victimhood politics. JP has nothing to gain--especially from Dyson's audience. Don't believe me? Go on Dyson's Twitter and see how they interpret JP's content after the muck debate
But judge for yourself. Watch the debate--the entire debate--and find any part of it where an undecided listener can say they came out of the debate better off than before. Undecideds like myself felt it was a complete waste of time. The audience had leftist seals clapping for Dyson and Goldberg while JP had to walk on eggshells to explain his position(s). That is not a debate.
Edit: I'm a Delve subscriber, not a JP fan. I could care less about JP. But I do care about exchanging ideas absent of victimhood so we can solve real problems.
Well from the Munk debate specifically, the results turned 6% towards the right: www.munkdebates.com/The-Debates/Political-Correctness . I'd argue that's a difference; 6% of the people there realized the left's issues. This isn't about what Peterson has to gain, it's about what impact he can make. His recent moves are becoming more business rather than change oriented, and its a shame.
I have watched the debate by the way, and I'm not saying Dyson is in any sense right. It's obvious he's more interested in huckstering than seeking the truth. But his audience are in a bubble where all they'll ever see is victimhood & the left's fallacious presentation of what the right is, white supremacists, or "mean mad white men".
The point isn't do discuss ideas or alter Dyson's perspective, that's not gonna happen. But if a few people listening end up thinking to themselves "This Peterson guys isn't so wrong, maybe I should look up some of his stuff", I think that's a perfectly worthy investment.
As long as Dyson can assure Peterson there will be a neutral party present to halt ad hominems and keep the discussion on topic, I see this as a great opportunity. It's not often you get to talk directly to people who in their minds aren't allowed to listen to you.
It'd be much easier to solve problems if both sides agree on the solution.
Good to have a patient host that allows Peterson to enumerate his ideas thoroughly.
Q: Who are you? A: "We are Borg".
Q: What are you? A: "We are Borg".
Q: What do you do? A: "Empathy with alignment".
Q: What do you want? A: "Equality of outcome".
differous01 Don’t besmirch the good socialist name of star trek.
The delve sign in the background made me question if i was getting dizzy it made me nauseous for bit lol
Dyson, for selfish reasons, just wants to be associated with Dr. Peterson a second time. He knows the more he can be in Dr. Peterson‘s presence, and bring about some form of controversy, that he will become more popular, notable, etc.
What kind of camera set up? Looks great
Peterson destroyed them in that debate from the opening statement onward, anyway. Dyson looked like a buffoon to the entire internet...
Slick set-up for a brand-new channel!
Every now and then I realised I can be called a conservative in some cases. The left has gone so far left that I'm conservative? Geez.
0:53 Having them not precisely define Political Correctness was something I noticed very early on in that "debate".
Dyson couldn't string one sentence together during the Munk debate without mentioning something to do with his colour, and how he was being oppressed by the mean white man, it was truly terrible.
Love me a JP interview like this👍
thanks dr. Peterson for calling out that race-baiter! we have to deal with it all the time in the US.
We need to stop funding universities and colleges with public Monies! or at least cut it drastically! and get rid of the Marxist professors!
The Delve, do you plan on bringing in more of the IDW (folks like JBP and Shapiro and etc) for talks?
I'm more concerned about Peterson being too much of a coward to debate Douglas Lain(Zero Books) after making statements like "Marxist supporters don't debate me... they don't ask me to do it". He agreed to at first, but then backed out.
Agreed. This whole talking about Marxists and Marxism but never actually attempting to have a discussion with a Marxist is real cowardly. I would love a Peterson and Zizek/Lain Debate/Discussion. It would be so much more interesting than the usual echo chamber that most Peterson videos are.
Yeah, his whole caricature of what Marxism is and what a Marxist believes are way off. He definitely should debate some intelligent academic Marxists such as Richard Wolff.
The only works from a marxist that I ever appreciated and respected, short of Marx himself, are from Zizek, and I would like to see this debate. I think it could be interesting for everyone.
All the other ones would just turn into yet another useless, unproductive conversation about exactly the same stuff that has been discussed for the past 5 years without changing anything, and the comment section would be just another shitfest of righties and lefties throwing feces at each others.
Really? You're going to insinuate that Peterson is a coward, based upon what? Because he hasn't had a debate with someone you think he should? From Douglas Lain's own twitter "Unfortunately his schedule is not open to book any interviews at the moment". Having prior engagements to attend is cowardice? I don't think any of the assholes in this thread know the definition of "cowardice". In no way did he agree and then back out you presumptuous, impatient bullshitter.
I agree that it would be an interesting debate. Then again I'm not sure I want to agree with a thread where complete unknowns assert that Peterson, a well studied man, has no grasp on the concept of Marxism.
How about you assholes busily huffing your own fucking farts enlighten the rest of us with what you seem to think you know that everyone else is too fucking cowardly or stupid to comprehend. Karl Marx had a body count in the millions at the hands of tyrants.
I assert that you are the fucking cowards, too busy self-righteously demanding free shit and equality of outcome for the parasites of the world to cope with the fact that you are owed exactly nothing.
Tim Laning "busily huffing your own farts"... Great imagery.
The picture quality is amazing on the video RUclips or otherwise
Fortunately, Disney is a paramount of virtue and archetypes, from which serious scholars can draw the proper boundaries.
Peterson's suits have gotten alot nicer nowadays. Good for him. He deserves many blessings.
I can't go a day without listening to JBP - sets me up because I can think there is one voice out there that is rational and sane and there are millions of us who know this and thank him for his contribution to mankind. I really mean that. Also, for the leftists to keep banging on about racism to me is more insulting for the minorities. Leave us alone and we'll figure it out.
Thats great. You should also grow a pair and learn to stand up for yourself. You dont need to hang onto his every word lol
The last half of the video where Peterson explains the problem on the left vs right regarding borders etc etc...that was the most articulate and concise explanation ever. He's absolutely correct.
Loved the interview!
It doesnt matter what topic or location petterson debates he will be fine hes a genious and if his opposition has valid ideas point of veiws he will admit they are right and thats what makes him awesome openminded and willing to learn