Moorcock's influence is all over fantasy just like Tolkein's. Warhammer and D&D takes ideas from his work, and Elric could also be said to have served as the inspiration for characters like Daenerys Targaryen from GoT/ASOIAF, Griffith from Berserk, and Drizzt Do'Urden from Forgotten Realms.
@Ring-a-ding-ding baby "Conjunction of spheres" is an ancient astrological term. It was introduced in neither of these book series. It is derived from ancient model of the Universe, composed of concentric crystalline spheres. Saying that Sapkowski stole that idea from Moorcock is just as silly as thinking that he stole elves from Tolkien. No. They both were using much, much older sources. So old that no copyright applies to them.
@Caleb Imrie you're saying this Eric eternal champion guy's story is about a depressed dad trying to find his adopted daughter and build a family with his on again off again gf? I think the problem with people who say Witcher plagiarized some superhero is that they can't read very well, they can only comprehend small details and are not even aware of the bigger picture.
Elric might be some kind of inspiration, after all novels about him are included into "Canon of Fantasy Literature According to Andrzej Sapkowski" although more in terms of looks. I remember author's meeting with mr Sapkowski, during which he told that his greatest inspiration in writing fantasy (except obivious influences like works of J.R.R Tolkien etc ) was hardoiled fiction, especially Raymond Chandler (Geralt is basically private investigator) and his essay "the Simple Art of Murder", on how to create a hero of hardboiled fiction: ...But down these mean streets a man must go who is not himself mean, who is neither tarnished nor afraid. The detective in this kind of story must be such a man. He is the hero, he is everything. He must be a complete man and a common man and yet an unusual man. He must be, to use a rather weathered phrase, a man of honor, by instinct, by inevitability, without thought of it, and certainly without saying it. He must be the best man in his world and a good enough man for any world...
I don't see any Elric or Aragorn in Geralt. But I do see a harder, stronger character. He is a detective if not a crime-solver and hunter who employs deduction often. He's so badly represented sometimes I am shocked. He isn't some sword-whacking fighter or some stupid version of Elric, he ain't a Marvel trope either. He is just a simple man, a very good man, and his world does not earned-ly deserve him.
@@nickolausafon5458 He is based on Raymond Chandler's Philip Marlowe, more exactly on Chandler "Simple Art of Murder" essay on how to write hard boiled prose and how to create protagonist: In everything that can be called art there is a quality of redemption. It may be pure tragedy, if it is high tragedy, and it may be pity and irony, and it may be the raucous laughter of the strong man. But down these mean streets a man must go who is not himself mean, who is neither tarnished nor afraid. The detective in this kind of story must be such a man. He is the hero, he is everything. He must be a complete man and a common man and yet an unusual man. He must be, to use a rather weathered phrase, a man of honor, by instinct, by inevitability, without thought of it, and certainly without saying it. He must be the best man in his world and a good enough man for any world. I do not care much about his private life; he is neither a eunuch nor a satyr; I think he might seduce a duchess and I am quite sure he would not spoil a virgin; if he is a man of honor in one thing, he is that in all things. He is a relatively poor man, or he would not be a detective at all. He is a common man or he could not go among common people. He has a sense of character, or he would not know his job. He will take no man’s money dishonestly and no man’s insolence without a due and dispassionate revenge. He is a lonely man and his pride is that you will treat him as a proud man or be very sorry you ever saw him. He talks as the man of his age talks, that is, with rude wit, a lively sense of the grotesque, a disgust for sham, and a contempt for pettiness. The story is his adventure in search of a hidden truth, and it would be no adventure if it did not happen to a man fit for adventure. He has a range of awareness that startles you, but it belongs to him by right, because it belongs to the world he lives in. This is the orgin of Geralt character.
It's qiute possible that Sapko was inspired by his looks, but Geralt was inspired by Szewczyk Dratewka (from polish legend) and Sapkowski said it many times before.
@@jakkubus there you go: ""What to do?" A fairytale, he decided. Reimagine a Polish fairytale, make it real. Take the Polish story of the poor cobbler who kills a dragon, for example. The cobbler achieves what warriors could not by tricking the dragon into eating a lamb stuffed with sulphur. The dragon drinks so much water from the nearby river in an effort to calm the raging fire in its belly, he pops." www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-03-24-meeting-andrzej-sapkowski-the-writer-who-created-the-witcher
@@Kolaano It doesn't state that Geralt is said poor cobbler though. And well, in the short story in question there already is a cobbler that nearly kills a dragon - Kozojed.
@@jakkubus Context matters. The fact that this statment is about first short story via context you can guess who is who, the cobbler - witcher, dragon - monster, it is clear for me, if it's not for you it's ok. I do not say that Kozojed is not inspired by legend, who said Sapko had to use it just ones.
I think it's very obvious that Sapkowski took things from Moorcock to make the universe of The Witcher. However, I dont think it's bad. All fantasy is derivative and all fantasy takes from others. What pisses me off the most are either people on the Witcher side who downplay it, but even more so... more than ANYTHING, are Elric fans who flame and shit all over anyone who likes the Witcher. I love both series. Ive read both series. They're different, they're distinct. Despite the obvious influences and some things being straight up taken (The Conjunction of the Spheres), when I read Witcher I dont think "wow Im reading Elric" and when I read Elric I dont think "Wow this is so much better, Witcher ripped this off." I just love fantasy, elitists and screw off.
There are obviously similarities between them but they are different at the same time. I started reading Elric books because of this video and I ended loving them but I did not affect my love for the witcher saga. They are different sagas from the same genre I do not see any copy of plagiarism
Okay. Geralt was inspired by Elric. But that does not mean that you should hate the Witcher and Sapkowski as a whole. That's stupid. It feels like a lot of The Witcher haters who thinks that the book and game were way too overrated wants to find any excuse possible to defamed the franchise
I've found that even mentioning Elric gets flack, one Witcher fan called it "A drug addict who tries to bang his sister" I've began to read the Witcher but those who have read The Witcher hold reluctance towards Elric for a reason beyond my knowledge. I think the main issue is that because the Elric books are so old(Although a 2022 reversion was published), those who see the previews for the show will immediately assume its a Witcher copy. When, in fact, it's the other way around. There's too may similarities between the two characters, beit the skin tone, nickname, powers/abilities, plot, and station. I'll admit the Elric stories are a lot more pulpy but that's due to its debut in the 60s.
*Razorfist screeching in the background* Anyways, Elric likely inspired Geralt visually to a certain degree, but Geralt is way more influenced in his character traits by old detective book and film noir protagonists such as Philip Marlowe.
Elric did inspire this character. The guy has white hair, a sword with runes and goes by the monicker of the White Wolf, even his girlfriend looks just like Cymoril. That’s too much for coincidence
“Possible” ? Lol the Witcher is plagiarism. Do I like the Witcher? Yes. Is it plagiarism? Yes. Just accept it guys. It’s ok. If you are gonna steal, steal from the best.
The Necrolibriatas it’s nowhere near plagiarism and every literary scholar is in unanimous agreement. Michael Moorcock didn’t even think consider it plagiarism until a handful of fans convinced him it was plagiarism, and he had been aware of the Witcher series for some time because he had been to Poland multiple times in the 90’s for conventions and meet & greets.
Schmidtallica this is all kinds of bs. For one thing Moorcock knows it’s plagiarism he just has better things to worry about. Secondly Witcher is blatantly plagiarism. Not only the name and appearance of the main characters. They also get their nicknames in the same way, end in the exact same way and even the Conjunction of the Spheres was taken while cloth name and al from Elric
SeanHiruki Geralt isn’t called the White Wolf after killing Renfri, despite what Razorfist wants you to believe. While there are some similarities a lot of the argument of the Witcher being plagiarism is ridiculous. Everything brought up except for the appearance and nickname in these arguments are super reductive and quite frankly BS as using the logic in those arguments, every fantasy book would be plagiarism
I was on the fence with the whole Elric and Geralt debate. But after reading Elric, I'm becoming more inclined to believe the plagiarism accusations. But on that note, I think Drizzit is even more of a rip off of Elric than Geralt.
At one time I was working at orchard/farm for about half year, because of herbicides my long dark hairs started getting grey, also I've been hallucinating that monsters are lurking in the bushes to get me. If I wrote book about it could be also considered as plagiarism?
I love your accent dude! I recommend the current French bandes dessinées of Elric to learn more about Elric. The original author has given them his blessing!
@@LastKnownMeal you're welcome! I'm in the process of acquiring Tome 5 of Elric, but I went for *Radisson* instead (Nouvelle-France wood runner). Another good French bande-dessinée is *Servitude* if you like Game of Thrones-like fantasy!
sapkowski is a grump who never expressed what literature inspired him which rubs alot of people like me the wrong way micheal moorcock constantly talks about what inspired elric and praises those who also expressed their love and inspiration they have gotten from moorcocks work( like George RR martin) i think that best describes the divide from both fandom its a shame elric doesnt have an amazing AAA video game because i do love them both lol
they have in common the hair color/the albino condition and the use of potions (but for very different reasons) and people here talk about a case of blantant ripoff. seriously, did anyone ever read a Geralt's short story or just one Moorcock's novel?
Elric is a weakling who depends on his potion and his sentient sword to win a battle..without elric potion he will die.. while geralt is master swordsman without his elixers he is still incredibly fast.
Elric is strong, but he's an albino and was born with an illness. His potions don't make him stronger, they simply allow him to move and his sword just has a soul stealing enchant. Dumbass.
Sapkowski was a translator for the polish publishers of the Elric books but has denied ever reading them. There’s a longer video out there on the Rageaholic RUclips channel that gets deep into the similarities.
his looks and called the White Wolf is similar, but that is about it. Elric is passionate, and emperor, weak, and needs drugs and/or Stormbringer to function.
I think it would be a great idea to order some books of Witcher's predecessor. Not because I want to see if Witcher is really a work of plagiarism, but because I want to expand my horizons. I want to get hooked up on this.
I read Elric after the controversy and while I can see the accusations of plagiarism having some merit to them, I still find myself liking the witcher more
Canon the Cimmerican morality: neutral to neutral good attitude: difficult, emotional, deep-feeling religion: Cimmerian Gods (lonely) mentality: willful, basal, unyielding appearance: tall, over-muscled, dark tanned, black hair, volcanic blue eyes best strength: epic strength and war-tact weakness: emotional issues, antisocial complex Elric of Melnibone morality: lawful neutral attitude: empathetic, serious and focused religion: sorcery? mentality: epicurean, periodically stoic appearance: tall, thin, pretty, albino and effeminate, weak best strength: overcoming and justice weakness: weak constitution, drug dependency Geralt of Rivia morality: justice-drive, a bit personal attitude: resentful, determined, at odds with the world religion: unknown or none mentality: work for pay, professional, serious, responsible malodorousbest strength: honor, valor, wisdom, reason and 'humble-pride' (zero hypocrisy) weakness: women, Ciri, roach, Roche, tangled alliances, conflicts, being sucked into problems and debts, Dandelion, and Destiny itself Vilarius (my heroic character) morality: very honorable and noble, righteous good attitude: serious, ethical, emotional, empathetic with others religion: the Pantheon mentality: strong, good-seeking, just, aggressive against evil appearance: tall and strong, dark-haired with light eyes and very copper-tone skin best strength: discipline, heroic honor weakness: trusting too much, naive assumptions, misplaced hope or loyalty
I’ve ready most everything in moorcock’s eternal champion sagas and wow, they do not stand the test of time. I always felt moorcock was terrible at naming characters and Moonglum is just awful.
It's like saying Harry Potter is just a King Arthur for millennials. The kings of the past inspire the common heroes of the present, just as their influence will inspire the protagonists of The Future..!
do you have a source for that information? As far as I know Elric sagas were translated to polish by Radosław Kot, Justyna Zandberg, Andrzej Rosanoff and Sławomir Janicki in 1994. I think Sapkowski studied something like foreign trade, I was not aware that he was a translator.
He definitely is inspired by elric it's not a "possibility" its true. There's far too many similarities, I mean elric is extremely influential in general.
Apart from the looks, there is nothing that connects or similar beyond the usual swords & sorcery tropes. The is nothing original I. The Elric books, it’s standard fare. Witcher is more about Slavic folklore, monsters etc.
Trash Person the reason why Elric hasn’t made it, And Witcher has is because Witcher is based on real folklore. Folklore is myth based on truth, and thus the Witcher stories resonates with people. In comparison Elric is indeed very very standard fare. These days more certainly not relevant. Same reason why Star Wars worked there is a mythic core, which resonates with everyone, the hero’s journey. There are far deeper things going on here your tiny singular brain cell could ever comprehend!
Trash Person dumbass you aren’t paying attention, Witcher is all based on Slavic folklore. These creatures and stories have been shared for hundreds of years, they are in the human psyche. There is truth behind them. It’s not fantasy. Whereas Elric is literally fantasy. Same again, Star Wars hit, because it’s based on deep psychological truths, like the hero’s journey. There’s plenty of Sci fi that’s didn’t get big. In the end Elric is Just a riff of lord of the rings and others. It’s literally the definition of standard fantasy. That’s why it’ll never be a TV show or video game....unlike Conan the barbarian. Every other Japanese fantasy anime has a cursed sword, that’s where that trope originated from. There nothing new being done on Elric. You clearly don’t know jack shit. You don’t even know where the original cursed sword stories come from in real life.
Trash Person and yet you still don’t understand why it didn’t hit, and why it’s standard fare. So I’ll leave you talking to yourself, since you feel you know everything. Meanwhile everyone is playing and watching Witcher and not giving a flying toss about Elric. They never have or ever will. You are better just talking to yourself. Spastic.
@@hanniffydinn6019 Elric was pretty big back in the day though, you can see that in how many characters cribbed his style like Drizzt, Geralt and all the music he inspired like Deep Purple's 'Stormbringer' or Diamond Head's 'Borrowed Time'. Witcher never hit it big outside of Poland until the Witcher 3 gained the books and the property a lot of attention.
Well yes, but actually no. Bloodraven has a similar inspiration - very Elric like. -- Also I have the suspicion LKM might be reading Melnibonean Chronicles right not
Virgin Elric and Chad Geralt. 😉 On a more serious note the similarities are very superficial and skin-deep, so if you expect Moorcock's works to be similar to The Witcher franchise, you'll be severely disappointed.
@Venraef Then pray tell me how is the Conjunction of Spheres an aspect of Geralt's character and how does it relate to him being a rip-off? Because it's just a piece of inconsequential fluff in the background of worldbuilding. If there was a grain of truth to wails of butthurt Elric fanboys, then Moorcock wouldn't return with nothing after trying to sue Sapkowski few years ago.
@Venraef First off he didn't shift the goal post: you did. Secondly: That is what superficial means Thirdly what the Conjunction is in both universes is completely different. In Elric it is how the Eternal Champion is chosen and is where a time and space paradox occurs. In the Witcher it simply is where two or more world come into alignment and people/monsters get pulled from one onto the other and vice versa then everything goes on there is no cosmic rescaling or paradoxes occurring
well andrew (howeverthefuckyouspellhislastname) was very clear that his perfect original character is not inspired by elric, and a white haired albino mercenary spellsword colloquially known as the white wolf who is a known successful womanizer that frequents the beds of powerful sorceresses and relies on mutagens/alchemical formulas just doesn't sound very "witchery" to me, i'm gonna need more proof to this claim
Complete and utter plagiarism - no doubt about it. The fact he never mentioned Moorcock as an "inspiration" is entirely the point. You give credit to the people that inspire you (as Moorcock himself has done). Sapwkowski was translating Elric stories into Polish in 1985, and in 1986 he wrote the first Witcher novel. Hmmm.
Sapkowski translated Elric into Polish from English. He “borrowed” a lot from it. There is nothing wrong with being inspired. The problem is that Sapkowski doesn’t acknowledge Elric, and his own close links to the books, unlike Moorcock who is first to acknowledge his influences from other writers. That is why Razorfist is angered.
It's not just similarities. One step away from a new coat of paint is more like it... And the new coat is the same color with a slightly lighter shade.
inspiration is taking ideas and then turning it into it's own thing, you can't be inspired by names like "the white wolf" because that's either paying homage or just plagiarism, we know it's the latter because Sapkowski denies all of it, he's a greedy and truly toxic author. It goes deeper than that as well, you can't really say it's a shallow comparison either when people are still talking about it, and recognise like at least more than 10 "similarities". not to mention that most people who know it's plagiarism are still witcher fans, like myself, only diehard insecure little bitch fanboys don't want to accept it.
Sapkowski literally has no way to deny how The Witcher is a blatant Elric ripoff. What's next on his list? A novel about a white haired queen that rides dragons and leads an army of slaves?
The creators of Knull admitted he(Knull) was based on Elric. That's what brought me here, thought to myself that Geralt also reminded me of Elric/Knull.
I love the Witcher 3 games , but Gerald is a full on rip of a legendary hero’s lol, but the funny joke , is many dnd ideas were ripoff too so it does really bother me that much.
[razorfist screaming in the background]
pretty much he has been bitching about the witcher for years haha
You can't have two works of fictions have more than 2 things in common without him calling it plagiarism.
Even if there is direct inspiration for the character, I think the world and characters presented in "The Witcher" more interesting.
I'm still waiting for his video that the Witcher is a work of plagiarism
@@MN-ss9xc after reading both, I like Elric more, even though I've read the with her saga before finding out about elric.
Moorcock's influence is all over fantasy just like Tolkein's. Warhammer and D&D takes ideas from his work, and Elric could also be said to have served as the inspiration for characters like Daenerys Targaryen from GoT/ASOIAF, Griffith from Berserk, and Drizzt Do'Urden from Forgotten Realms.
and prince Arthas in Warcraft 3 storyline
"Possible" is a veeeery light way of putting it.
Actually thank the game's studio and developers for making Geralt more of his own character
@Ring-a-ding-ding baby yeah I completely agree
@Ring-a-ding-ding baby "Conjunction of spheres" is an ancient astrological term. It was introduced in neither of these book series. It is derived from ancient model of the Universe, composed of concentric crystalline spheres. Saying that Sapkowski stole that idea from Moorcock is just as silly as thinking that he stole elves from Tolkien. No. They both were using much, much older sources. So old that no copyright applies to them.
@Caleb Imrie you're saying this Eric eternal champion guy's story is about a depressed dad trying to find his adopted daughter and build a family with his on again off again gf?
I think the problem with people who say Witcher plagiarized some superhero is that they can't read very well, they can only comprehend small details and are not even aware of the bigger picture.
@@melonusk8218 you only played the witcher 3 and its obvious
"Inspiration" is a very generous way to phrase that.
also "possible". more like "blatant plagiarism", then "possible inspiration". lol
I like how YOU can start a discussion without everyone immediately trying to rip each other's guts out. Well done sir
Elric might be some kind of inspiration, after all novels about him are included into "Canon of Fantasy Literature According to Andrzej Sapkowski" although more in terms of looks. I remember author's meeting with mr Sapkowski, during which he told that his greatest inspiration in writing fantasy (except obivious influences like works of J.R.R Tolkien etc ) was hardoiled fiction, especially Raymond Chandler (Geralt is basically private investigator) and his essay "the Simple Art of Murder", on how to create a hero of hardboiled fiction:
...But down these mean streets a man must go who is not himself mean, who is neither tarnished nor afraid. The detective in this kind of story must be such a man. He is the hero, he is everything. He must be a complete man and a common man and yet an unusual man. He must be, to use a rather weathered phrase, a man of honor, by instinct, by inevitability, without thought of it, and certainly without saying it. He must be the best man in his world and a good enough man for any world...
I don't see any Elric or Aragorn in Geralt. But I do see a harder, stronger character. He is a detective if not a crime-solver and hunter who employs deduction often. He's so badly represented sometimes I am shocked. He isn't some sword-whacking fighter or some stupid version of Elric, he ain't a Marvel trope either. He is just a simple man, a very good man, and his world does not earned-ly deserve him.
@@nickolausafon5458 He is based on Raymond Chandler's Philip Marlowe, more exactly on Chandler "Simple Art of Murder" essay on how to write hard boiled prose and how to create protagonist:
In everything that can be called art there is a quality of redemption. It may be pure tragedy, if it is high tragedy, and it may be pity and irony, and it may be the raucous laughter of the strong man. But down these mean streets a man must go who is not himself mean, who is neither tarnished nor afraid.
The detective in this kind of story must be such a man. He is the hero, he is everything. He must be a complete man and a common man and yet an unusual man. He must be, to use a rather weathered phrase, a man of honor, by instinct, by inevitability, without thought of it, and certainly without saying it. He must be the best man in his world and a good enough man for any world. I do not care much about his private life; he is neither a eunuch nor a satyr; I think he might seduce a duchess and I am quite sure he would not spoil a virgin; if he is a man of honor in one thing, he is that in all things. He is a relatively poor man, or he would not be a detective at all. He is a common man or he could not go among common people. He has a sense of character, or he would not know his job. He will take no man’s money dishonestly and no man’s insolence without a due and dispassionate revenge. He is a lonely man and his pride is that you will treat him as a proud man or be very sorry you ever saw him. He talks as the man of his age talks, that is, with rude wit, a lively sense of the grotesque, a disgust for sham, and a contempt for pettiness. The story is his adventure in search of a hidden truth, and it would be no adventure if it did not happen to a man fit for adventure. He has a range of awareness that startles you, but it belongs to him by right, because it belongs to the world he lives in.
This is the orgin of Geralt character.
It's qiute possible that Sapko was inspired by his looks, but Geralt was inspired by Szewczyk Dratewka (from polish legend) and Sapkowski said it many times before.
AFAIK it was Kozojed that was inspired by Dratewka, not Geralt.
@@jakkubus If you wait a little, I can give you a source.
@@jakkubus there you go: ""What to do?" A fairytale, he decided. Reimagine a Polish fairytale, make it real. Take the Polish story of the poor cobbler who kills a dragon, for example. The cobbler achieves what warriors could not by tricking the dragon into eating a lamb stuffed with sulphur. The dragon drinks so much water from the nearby river in an effort to calm the raging fire in its belly, he pops."
www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-03-24-meeting-andrzej-sapkowski-the-writer-who-created-the-witcher
@@Kolaano It doesn't state that Geralt is said poor cobbler though. And well, in the short story in question there already is a cobbler that nearly kills a dragon - Kozojed.
@@jakkubus Context matters. The fact that this statment is about first short story via context you can guess who is who, the cobbler - witcher, dragon - monster, it is clear for me, if it's not for you it's ok. I do not say that Kozojed is not inspired by legend, who said Sapko had to use it just ones.
I think it's very obvious that Sapkowski took things from Moorcock to make the universe of The Witcher.
However, I dont think it's bad. All fantasy is derivative and all fantasy takes from others. What pisses me off the most are either people on the Witcher side who downplay it, but even more so... more than ANYTHING, are Elric fans who flame and shit all over anyone who likes the Witcher. I love both series. Ive read both series. They're different, they're distinct. Despite the obvious influences and some things being straight up taken (The Conjunction of the Spheres), when I read Witcher I dont think "wow Im reading Elric" and when I read Elric I dont think "Wow this is so much better, Witcher ripped this off." I just love fantasy, elitists and screw off.
There are obviously similarities between them but they are different at the same time. I started reading Elric books because of this video and I ended loving them but I did not affect my love for the witcher saga. They are different sagas from the same genre I do not see any copy of plagiarism
Okay. Geralt was inspired by Elric. But that does not mean that you should hate the Witcher and Sapkowski as a whole. That's stupid. It feels like a lot of The Witcher haters who thinks that the book and game were way too overrated wants to find any excuse possible to defamed the franchise
Exactly. I actually prefer the Witcher, even though some elric passages are brilliant
I've found that even mentioning Elric gets flack, one Witcher fan called it "A drug addict who tries to bang his sister" I've began to read the Witcher but those who have read The Witcher hold reluctance towards Elric for a reason beyond my knowledge. I think the main issue is that because the Elric books are so old(Although a 2022 reversion was published), those who see the previews for the show will immediately assume its a Witcher copy. When, in fact, it's the other way around. There's too may similarities between the two characters, beit the skin tone, nickname, powers/abilities, plot, and station. I'll admit the Elric stories are a lot more pulpy but that's due to its debut in the 60s.
*Razorfist screeching in the background*
Anyways, Elric likely inspired Geralt visually to a certain degree, but Geralt is way more influenced in his character traits by old detective book and film noir protagonists such as Philip Marlowe.
Elric did inspire this character. The guy has white hair, a sword with runes and goes by the monicker of the White Wolf, even his girlfriend looks just like Cymoril. That’s too much for coincidence
@@hexkwondo and a daughter that travels the worlds/dimensions whatever
@@hexkwondo The entire alchemical table was also taken straight out of Elric. It's heinous
“Possible” ? Lol the Witcher is plagiarism. Do I like the Witcher? Yes. Is it plagiarism? Yes. Just accept it guys. It’s ok. If you are gonna steal, steal from the best.
The Necrolibriatas it’s nowhere near plagiarism and every literary scholar is in unanimous agreement. Michael Moorcock didn’t even think consider it plagiarism until a handful of fans convinced him it was plagiarism, and he had been aware of the Witcher series for some time because he had been to Poland multiple times in the 90’s for conventions and meet & greets.
Schmidtallica this is all kinds of bs. For one thing Moorcock knows it’s plagiarism he just has better things to worry about. Secondly Witcher is blatantly plagiarism. Not only the name and appearance of the main characters. They also get their nicknames in the same way, end in the exact same way and even the Conjunction of the Spheres was taken while cloth name and al from Elric
SeanHiruki Geralt isn’t called the White Wolf after killing Renfri, despite what Razorfist wants you to believe. While there are some similarities a lot of the argument of the Witcher being plagiarism is ridiculous. Everything brought up except for the appearance and nickname in these arguments are super reductive and quite frankly BS as using the logic in those arguments, every fantasy book would be plagiarism
Mr Klassic when the majority of your work is someone else’s no matter how you spin it, that’s still plagiarism.
I wonder why you named this channel "last known meal" 🤔. did something was happened with your meal? lol
@@TheCivildecay before the Witcher 3 most of his content was Bethesda related
@@IvKE94 no, he eats blindfolded
I was on the fence with the whole Elric and Geralt debate. But after reading Elric, I'm becoming more inclined to believe the plagiarism accusations. But on that note, I think Drizzit is even more of a rip off of Elric than Geralt.
I'm glad some else noticed that.
Holy shit yes. I love Drizzt but he is definitely an Elric rip-off.
The targaryns very much feel like melnibonians
Very interesting! Thanks for the info, LKM. Elric sounds intriguing. I'll definitely check him out, maybe get the book on my Kindle.
Ehh just the looks. There are to many diferences in the end.
To many people jump on plagiarism bandwagon and can't admit they are wrong.
At one time I was working at orchard/farm for about half year, because of herbicides my long dark hairs started getting grey, also I've been hallucinating that monsters are lurking in the bushes to get me. If I wrote book about it could be also considered as plagiarism?
I love your accent dude! I recommend the current French bandes dessinées of Elric to learn more about Elric. The original author has given them his blessing!
Thanks for the recommendation, will go through it!
@@LastKnownMeal you're welcome! I'm in the process of acquiring Tome 5 of Elric, but I went for *Radisson* instead (Nouvelle-France wood runner). Another good French bande-dessinée is *Servitude* if you like Game of Thrones-like fantasy!
sapkowski is a grump who never expressed what literature inspired him which rubs alot of people like me the wrong way micheal moorcock constantly talks about what inspired elric and praises those who also expressed their love and inspiration they have gotten from moorcocks work( like George RR martin) i think that best describes the divide from both fandom its a shame elric doesnt have an amazing AAA video game because i do love them both lol
they have in common the hair color/the albino condition and the use of potions (but for very different reasons) and people here talk about a case of blantant ripoff.
seriously, did anyone ever read a Geralt's short story or just one Moorcock's novel?
Elric is a weakling who depends on his potion and his sentient sword to win a battle..without elric potion he will die.. while geralt is master swordsman without his elixers he is still incredibly fast.
Elric is strong, but he's an albino and was born with an illness. His potions don't make him stronger, they simply allow him to move and his sword just has a soul stealing enchant.
Dumbass.
@@AUTOBOTGJB1997 Strombringer devours souls, and strengthens Elric. Also it's not a mere enchanted sword, it's a god.
@@malcomalexander9437 I realize this, I was just simplifying it. I simply think the notion that Elric is a weakling is misinformed at best.
legolas tan You forgot to mention that Elric is the most powerful sorcerer in Melnibone, as well as a summoner who is the gods’ favorite.
>possible inspiration
More like plaigiarism.
Sapkowski was a translator for the polish publishers of the Elric books but has denied ever reading them. There’s a longer video out there on the Rageaholic RUclips channel that gets deep into the similarities.
This is really good work sir
his looks and called the White Wolf is similar, but that is about it. Elric is passionate, and emperor, weak, and needs drugs and/or Stormbringer to function.
I loved the elric story when i was a kid. 1st job for me sorting comics at age 14 whahoo!
0:55 who's art is this
I think it would be a great idea to order some books of Witcher's predecessor. Not because I want to see if Witcher is really a work of plagiarism, but because I want to expand my horizons. I want to get hooked up on this.
I read Elric after the controversy and while I can see the accusations of plagiarism having some merit to them, I still find myself liking the witcher more
“Possible inspiration” means Shameless ripoff.
Canon the Cimmerican
morality: neutral to neutral good attitude: difficult, emotional, deep-feeling religion: Cimmerian Gods (lonely)
mentality: willful, basal, unyielding appearance: tall, over-muscled, dark tanned, black hair, volcanic blue eyes
best strength: epic strength and war-tact weakness: emotional issues, antisocial complex
Elric of Melnibone
morality: lawful neutral attitude: empathetic, serious and focused religion: sorcery? mentality: epicurean, periodically stoic
appearance: tall, thin, pretty, albino and effeminate, weak best strength: overcoming and justice weakness: weak constitution, drug dependency
Geralt of Rivia
morality: justice-drive, a bit personal attitude: resentful, determined, at odds with the world religion: unknown or none
mentality: work for pay, professional, serious, responsible malodorousbest strength: honor, valor, wisdom, reason and 'humble-pride' (zero hypocrisy) weakness: women, Ciri, roach, Roche, tangled alliances, conflicts, being sucked into problems and debts, Dandelion, and Destiny itself
Vilarius (my heroic character)
morality: very honorable and noble, righteous good attitude: serious, ethical, emotional, empathetic with others
religion: the Pantheon mentality: strong, good-seeking, just, aggressive against evil
appearance: tall and strong, dark-haired with light eyes and very copper-tone skin best strength: discipline, heroic honor
weakness: trusting too much, naive assumptions, misplaced hope or loyalty
I’ve ready most everything in moorcock’s eternal champion sagas and wow, they do not stand the test of time. I always felt moorcock was terrible at naming characters and Moonglum is just awful.
"possible inspiration"
Blatant rip off.
It's like saying Harry Potter is just a King Arthur for millennials. The kings of the past inspire the common heroes of the present, just as their influence will inspire the protagonists of The Future..!
He wrote his short stories after being Paid to translate Elrik stories.
do you have a source for that information? As far as I know Elric sagas were translated to polish by Radosław Kot, Justyna Zandberg, Andrzej Rosanoff and Sławomir Janicki in 1994. I think Sapkowski studied something like foreign trade, I was not aware that he was a translator.
Tower of the swallow=the vanishing tower?
Posible ?
I've thought this for years.
The possible? Actually lmao.
"Inspiration"
Lets say Elric is the Father of Geralt. I am reading the Witcher right now and i camnot wait to read the Elric saga after this
He definitely is inspired by elric it's not a "possibility" its true. There's far too many similarities, I mean elric is extremely influential in general.
The similarity was striking. Moorcock was awesome. Stormbringer/Elric/Hawkmoon series were serious 'Metal Heulent' high fantasy.
Apart from the looks, there is nothing that connects or similar beyond the usual swords & sorcery tropes. The is nothing original I. The Elric books, it’s standard fare. Witcher is more about Slavic folklore, monsters etc.
The conjunction of spheres is a straight tipoff. Sapkowski didnt even bother to call it something different
Trash Person the reason why Elric hasn’t made it, And Witcher has is because Witcher is based on real folklore. Folklore is myth based on truth, and thus the Witcher stories resonates with people. In comparison Elric is indeed very very standard fare. These days more certainly not relevant.
Same reason why Star Wars worked there is a mythic core, which resonates with everyone, the hero’s journey. There are far deeper things going on here your tiny singular brain cell could ever comprehend!
Trash Person dumbass you aren’t paying attention, Witcher is all based on Slavic folklore. These creatures and stories have been shared for hundreds of years, they are in the human psyche. There is truth behind them. It’s not fantasy. Whereas Elric is literally fantasy. Same again, Star Wars hit, because it’s based on deep psychological truths, like the hero’s journey. There’s plenty of Sci fi that’s didn’t get big. In the end Elric is Just a riff of lord of the rings and others. It’s literally the definition of standard fantasy. That’s why it’ll never be a TV show or video game....unlike Conan the barbarian. Every other Japanese fantasy anime has a cursed sword, that’s where that trope originated from. There nothing new being done on Elric. You clearly don’t know jack shit. You don’t even know where the original cursed sword stories come from in real life.
Trash Person and yet you still don’t understand why it didn’t hit, and why it’s standard fare. So I’ll leave you talking to yourself, since you feel you know everything. Meanwhile everyone is playing and watching Witcher and not giving a flying toss about Elric. They never have or ever will. You are better just talking to yourself. Spastic.
@@hanniffydinn6019 Elric was pretty big back in the day though, you can see that in how many characters cribbed his style like Drizzt, Geralt and all the music he inspired like Deep Purple's 'Stormbringer' or Diamond Head's 'Borrowed Time'. Witcher never hit it big outside of Poland until the Witcher 3 gained the books and the property a lot of attention.
Well yes, but actually no.
Bloodraven has a similar inspiration - very Elric like. -- Also I have the suspicion LKM might be reading Melnibonean Chronicles right not
Virgin Elric and Chad Geralt. 😉
On a more serious note the similarities are very superficial and skin-deep, so if you expect Moorcock's works to be similar to The Witcher franchise, you'll be severely disappointed.
@Venraef Then pray tell me how is the Conjunction of Spheres an aspect of Geralt's character and how does it relate to him being a rip-off? Because it's just a piece of inconsequential fluff in the background of worldbuilding.
If there was a grain of truth to wails of butthurt Elric fanboys, then Moorcock wouldn't return with nothing after trying to sue Sapkowski few years ago.
@Venraef
That is the definition of superficial.
@Venraef First off he didn't shift the goal post: you did.
Secondly: That is what superficial means
Thirdly what the Conjunction is in both universes is completely different. In Elric it is how the Eternal Champion is chosen and is where a time and space paradox occurs. In the Witcher it simply is where two or more world come into alignment and people/monsters get pulled from one onto the other and vice versa then everything goes on there is no cosmic rescaling or paradoxes occurring
All these coping Witcher fans.
"It's just superficial I swear"
@@unpleasanttruth238 Well, if you think that white hair and his moniker are basically Elric's entire character...
Elric's story also shares similarities with Turin Turambar's (maybe it's the other way around...)
Moorecock was inspired by Turin Turambar, so that only makes sense.
Possible inspiration? Let's be real, here. Geralt is practically a xeroxed copy
well andrew (howeverthefuckyouspellhislastname) was very clear that his perfect original character is not inspired by elric, and a white haired albino mercenary spellsword colloquially known as the white wolf who is a known successful womanizer that frequents the beds of powerful sorceresses and relies on mutagens/alchemical formulas just doesn't sound very "witchery" to me, i'm gonna need more proof to this claim
Complete and utter plagiarism - no doubt about it. The fact he never mentioned Moorcock as an "inspiration" is entirely the point. You give credit to the people that inspire you (as Moorcock himself has done). Sapwkowski was translating Elric stories into Polish in 1985, and in 1986 he wrote the first Witcher novel. Hmmm.
Possible?
Tv series got cancelled because of too many similarities
That the shit why elric fans will have to deal with always have to be compare to the witcher
And people wonder why elric fans have beef with the Witcher
Sapkowski translated Elric into Polish from English. He “borrowed” a lot from it.
There is nothing wrong with being inspired.
The problem is that Sapkowski doesn’t acknowledge Elric, and his own close links to the books, unlike Moorcock who is first to acknowledge his influences from other writers. That is why Razorfist is angered.
I really gotta read both series of books, especially Elric
Read Elric first. You won’t regret it.
Possible? Lmao if Moorcock ever decided to sue, Sapkowski along with half the entertainment industry would go bankrupt.
Moorcock doesnt care enough to sue apparently. Not for a lack of a case, he just doesnt care it seems.
Plagiariasm is the perfect word!!
For people that didn't read the books and only watch a video from a guy that also didn't read anything, it is
The Witcher is a ripoff of Elric.
No it isnt you utter fool.
It's not just similarities. One step away from a new coat of paint is more like it... And the new coat is the same color with a slightly lighter shade.
the possible? ahahahahahahahahahahhaahha
There's nothing possible about it, Sapkowski blatantly stole from Moorcock as well as Tolkien.
Nnnno he didnt , just another witcher hater.
I have often pondered the similarities.
inspiration is taking ideas and then turning it into it's own thing, you can't be inspired by names like "the white wolf" because that's either paying homage or just plagiarism, we know it's the latter because Sapkowski denies all of it, he's a greedy and truly toxic author. It goes deeper than that as well, you can't really say it's a shallow comparison either when people are still talking about it, and recognise like at least more than 10 "similarities". not to mention that most people who know it's plagiarism are still witcher fans, like myself, only diehard insecure little bitch fanboys don't want to accept it.
Elric would be empowered from the Witchers soul
Sapkowski literally has no way to deny how The Witcher is a blatant Elric ripoff. What's next on his list? A novel about a white haired queen that rides dragons and leads an army of slaves?
It is a rip-off, sorta
The creators of Knull admitted he(Knull) was based on Elric. That's what brought me here, thought to myself that Geralt also reminded me of Elric/Knull.
No not inspiration Its PLAGIARISM
Witcher is total plagiarism lol.
I love the Witcher 3 games , but Gerald is a full on rip of a legendary hero’s lol, but the funny joke , is many dnd ideas were ripoff too so it does really bother me that much.