@@trikstari7687 KOTOR had so many great and sometimes funny quotes from HK-47, Jolee Bindo, Mission Vao etc. Lashowe - Do you know how many Sith there are in Dreshdae? Jolee Bindo - Twelve. No wait. Thirteen?
I was 17 when this game came out. I had been used to being the hero and stopping the villain. Stopping the villain to become the villain was a new concept for me.
@@DamianSzajnowski There were some things that I wondered about, but I brushed them off because I didn't think that a video game would do that to me. Once it was revealed, it all made sense.
what interests me is that Bindo is not provoked by Revan's comments, and is only sarcastic at the most. once you break through his wall, he opens up and shows how much of an intelligent and honesy deep character he is. Bindo seems to make his life purpose helping others understand where he didnt, and helping others succeed where he did not.
@minicle426 idk, it didn’t feel forced for me, actually I always thought it’s one of the best written romance stories in games of that time. Bastila was one of Revan’s fangirls even before she knew him personally, you can learn it from one of the Jedi masters on Dantooine. I think that could be part of the reason she saved him despite his brain was already damaged. And Revan first saw her in a slave outfit and thought “wow, hot girl with hot temper” and starts teasing her and flirting. So the attraction was there from the beginning, and their Force Bond do the rest, letting them feel each other on a whole different level that only few of jedis could even comprehend.
Best part: Revan would have arguably kicked the shit out of Vitiate/The True Sith Emperor had he won. I imagine the Galaxy would have been a more pleasant place, given how Revan's forces consist of slightly more merciful Fallen Jedi, newly anointed Sith eager to follow (and given Revan's style, he wouldn't randomly massacre people like Malak did).
@@StriderBaron pretty sure the overall point of the dark side (at least before Disney as idk anymore) was that you would always eventually fall to your paranoia and lust for more power. Even the best of intentions starting mutate into hate and rage
@@UnholyWrath3277 Not wrong. I can count the number of relatively sane Sith on one hand. Just figured he'd have more of a shot at killing the Emperor and still managing to avoid the Emperor devouring all reality without having been killed the way he was.
@@UnholyWrath3277 thats what they explore in the game and is observed in the movies ofcourse. Anakin goes from “i have to save the woman i love and our unborn child” to “i will bring peace, and stability to my new empire” awfully quickly. Yuthra ban (however you spell it) intended to use her new power she gained to free her fellow slave. Instead she became obsessed with scheming to gain control of the academy etc etc
I think it's because of Bindo's regret and pain, and the understanding he gained from his experience, is the reason he was ready to become a Jedi knight. He wasn't being rewarded. He had earned it through experience.
I prefer The Reapers to Vitiate, as Vitiate just seems like Golbez; whereas The Reapers are like an army of Jenovas! You're a giant nerd if you understand this.
Also, Bioware's original concept for KotOR 2 was Jade Empire! I think Obsidian made a better story on worldbuilding and exploring philosophy, but Bioware's KotOR 2 *100%* was the better scripted story! Seriously! Compare KotOR 2 and Jade Empire, and it becomes obvious that all the hand-wringing complaints about how KotOR was: "too simplistic" has *ALWAYS* been complete bullshit. Bioware wanted to make an evil Yoda be the villain in KotOR 2, but they decided to work on a new IP while keeping the main conceptual design! Then they stole KotOR 3's concept from Obsidian to make _MASS EFFECT._ Long story short, Reapers > Vitiate. #fightme
@@thesurvivorssanctuary6561 Well, it's not because of BIoware vs. Obsidian. As far as I know, they were explicitly banned from making an "evil Yoda" story in Star Wars by Lucasfilm - some say by Lucas himself. They had to move it to China, with... some obvious traces. Also, KotOR 2 was scripted worse because they cut half the script and simplified the rest ;)
@@DarkLOREDash There are a few times that I hear you reading the script, and fund myself wondering why Carth Onasi is the saying the lines. Your readings fit the story so well, that I am always thrilled to listen.
I have long viewed Jolie Bindo as being second only to HK-47 for humor. I was never one to be cruel in conversation, but I rarely had problem being a properly courteous, respectful, and supportive Dark Lord, after all there is never any reason to be nasty, they will find death to be...insult enough if the fail to join my quest. It has however, long been my greatest sorrow that you may not corrupt Dustil Onasi to your cause and kill Carth when you encounter him on Korriban.
There's also the fact that Bindo represents the (supposedly impossible) balance between the light and dark side of the force, signifying that Revan at this moment rejects not only the light, but also the middle ground option.
It's interesting that in game stats, Jolee's pretty much a light side boy scout. I like to think of him that by turning away from the most rigid Jedi dogmas, he unconsciously became the ultimate epitomy of good. A great character in a great game.
I loved every moment of me cutting down Jolee Bindo and Juhani. Then killing Mission through the use of Zalbaar. That was so brutal XD. Pure Dark within a few minutes
I just regret that in the game you lack a "I need to be the dark lord but I don't want just to become a monster" line. An option in which you let a chance for Jolee to flee, even if at the end he decided to attack you.
The game was so much more emotionally engaging because it forces you to make all these cruel decisions for the dark path, I mean it is the dark side… Kotor was about the narrative experience of Revan, not the “player” as in many other games where the in-game protagonist is a representation of you. These were the choices faced by Revan, no cop outs allowed!!
@@MrDMIDOV It would have been pretty compelling to have a Revan that started Light, then Dark, then managed something in-between. But as KotOR II would explore, the Force doesn't let people pick a middle road, not really... Even if it might have been pretty cool.
@@Sticksnstones77 Kotor II only presents Revan in absolute terms because it's how the galaxy views him from what they know of him. They don't know the path he went on to get one of those two endings. Much the same as what we know about historical figures is what history lets us know, but those who were there with them may have completely different perspectives. I typically start a Kotor playthrough being "darkside", but not an absolute monster, more of a greedy jackass that still has some sort of heart. I start to lean to the light on Dantooine without being an overbearing "good guy", but over time gravitate towards neutral due to the sum total of my actions. I still don't understand why people play these games thinking they absolutely need to be light or dark at all times. That's basic af, unrealistic, and not compelling. In KOTOR II, there's many compelling scenarios you can arrive at that wouldn't show up if you were some sort of all or nothing villain/brown nosing hero. I remember going above and beyond in order to obtain a slave girl from some criminal for her lover. Rather than doing what most dark side simpletons would do, and deny the mission or take the criminal's bribe, I actually saved her out of my own pocket, but then I told her lover he had to buy her from me now, he attacked me out of rage, and after killing him I told his slave lover what had happened and let her go free
Nope. Star wars doesnt work like that. When you fell to the darkside is because you have put your selfish desires for powers and dominance over the rest of life. Its in impossible to fall to the darkside without becoming a monster eventually
After playing this game multiple times for different endings, it's a travesty I completed it thinking Jolee was a minor character without knowing about his past. And... I suspect this is true of many of us who did not continue digging after we found the first treasures the game offered.
My first playthrough i left kashyyyk for the last star map and didnt spend enough time with him to know/care about his character, so killing him didnt mean anything to me until i learned his story in another playthrough. The game truly is incredible for its age.
The immersion was strong in that game. When I played light side I was into saving Bastila and stopping Malak. When I played dark side it was exhilarating killing Jolee and Juhani. The journey of playing the two absolutes gets you really into being a hero or being a villain. That was what made it such a great game. You have to truly be evil to play dark side. Best was killing Carth after making him fall in love with you as a female Revan
@@nomadjensen8276 Oh look, toxic people that can't disagree and move on... Jeez, why would they put that in the game on the darkside playthru I wonder? Grow up. If you can't understand that a dark side playthru is suppose to be just as fun as light size playthru that's your damn problem. Either side you play the outcomes were there for immersion.
I think partly because Bastila seems to never have deeply lusted for power but rather acceptance and love. Jolee's flame had different priorities, she was not tortured into giving in to the dark side
@@Crafty_Spirit which makes us wonder what attracted Bastila to Revan to want to become his wife. I think she seen him sometimes during their youngling years and as they got older before his suppose fall to the darkside pre reformed Revan. Wish there was more build up. Like was she drawn to his control of the force? How he carried himself? His leadership? Or his stance as a neutral character that freely accepts that he is neither Full Jedi or Sith. But they but half of who he is. Then again all we got was him seeing her at her lowest point regarding her mother
@Crafty_Spirit True. Even on the dark side, Bastila resents the idea to bow to the Jedi council and call them “masters” but at the same time she practically begged Revan to become her master and lover and rule the sith empire together.
I like to say that I did a chaotic neutral run. I freed people from Czerka, ended slavery and demandes credits for all of that. Told Bastilla to shove it, told Carth to man up, and destroyed the Sith academy in Korriban cuz I despise those assholes. But, yeah, I embraced the name Revan. And in doing so, killed my friends. But hey, I freed Kashyykk ✌
For the longest while i had the wrong idea about his exile, which i guess makes sense cuz i was a kid when i played this game first time But him saying "I am a Jedi." makes him sound like he exiled himself because the council that found him innocent weren't really jedi while in the meantime he considered himself more of a jedi than they ever were.
The worst death in kotor lore belongs to the taris sewer people. No matter who you give the journal too, in swtor the survivors make it to the promise land only to get destroyed by time. Broke my heart the first time I discovered what had happene when I was near the end of my questing on Taris 💔
The Dark Side route in this game was very depressive because all the characters were so likableand you basically wipte them out, and Bastilla just become kind of brain dead as a dark force user.
Kindaof annoying actually. The sith seem convinced that they have to be cartoonishly evil stereotypes. They almost always seem to fail to realize that part of the point of being in the "dark side" is to do whatever you want. It doesn't feel like you are truly doing whatever you want if you are following some old cult's rules on "proper" evil.
The fact that this game is still open to interpretation and is still found interesting by countless people speaks to how much passion went into creating this wonderful game. I firmly believe this is the greatest video game that has ever been created
KOTOR has been my favourite game since it came out. I've played through it dozens of times. I have never heard Jolee's backstory before. What an awesome game.
The thing that I always find funny when I play KOTOR is when I leave the Jedi enclave and come back with red lightsabers and the Jedi council sees nothing wrong with that.
Dude, I love your vids. You point out stuff people (including myself) sometimes forget or over-look. Makes me wanna boot up KOTOR again. Keep up the good work! Curation is needed in any good lore. :)
By the end of the game,Jolie becomes like a loving Grandfather. While Juhani like the extra annoying older sister. I feel relatively not terrible removing her out of the picture,but Jolee is something else entirely.
Different times, different councils... But yes, of course they were wrong with Ashoka, but they recognize it at the end. I believe that Ashoka had a too idealistic view of the council before those events, and that's becaise of this "fall" in her eyes thst she decided to leave the order. Maybe she could have tried change things from the inside, a bit like Qui Gon... But that would have been another story🤷♂️
Jolee is the best companion. I always take him to party as an ultimate healing/buffing/zapping machine and he is also one of my favourite characters in terms of lore (ofc HK-47 is number one) Btw what graphic mods are you using?
This is the one reason I would struggle to do a full dark side playthrough... I truly wish there was some option to convince the old geezer to just walk away, rather than be forced to slaughter him. By comparison, convincing the walking carpet to gun down the annoying blue chick is somewhat hilarious..!
I just killed him and got this dialogue to see what would happen, then killed mission too, never been so sad at the deaths of characters, even trying to do a darkside run, it just hurts man, joleee is a great guy
Am I the only one who was kinda bothered that we never got to learn the ultimate fate of some of the KoTOR-spuad? Sure, Carth became an admiral, Canderous became Mandalore...but I'm just so sad that nothing is known of Jolee Bindo, Zaalbar, Mission Vao. They were not even mentioned once in KoTOR 2, or SWTOR... or have I completely missed something, maybe in a novel or comic book or smthg?
unlocked some story about jole bindo and possibly that a xenomorphic shape shifter might have killed him while attempting to open the map set and his force self then overtook that said xenomorphic shape shifter which would explain why his conversations are so.... what?
when i first played the game, i went to Kashyyk right away - because Wookies - and i met Jolee and I really liked him, having him as my second permanend follower - after Bastilla - and of course having his conversations. ffw to rakata prime i went lightside and theres that. after that i played an evil Revan ffw to Rakata Prime having his Story fresh in my mind, I couldn't kill him, I just couldn't. I made a Hard Save and went Dark Side. I cried after I slew Jolee. He was the only Game character i can think of where I cried - and some times still cry when I play DS - after he died. After finishing this run I went back to the Hard Save and finished the Run LS. Gotta say, that felt good for the Soul, but it was a bit Wacky when I saw a Corrupted Revan at the LS ending cinematic.
I cant hurt an old man or woman even if theyre evil bastards, jolee bindo grunpy as he is is awesome and adorable, his life story is well made, interesting and sad, seeing him die hurts alot especialy because its basicaly history repeating itself, mission being killed is super horrible too, and juhani? To me the jedi see her as a toy, i wonder whos worse the jedi or the sith? Well obv the sith but you the reader knows what i mean, i never have playtroughs in the dark side for reasons like these
@@Scary_Snail129 i asume that was the intention of the developers 🤣atleast you have courage, i flinch at the sight of the very thought of doing evil things in kotor xd
On my dark side playthrough, I had him started out light, but upon realizing and the truth and on Korriban, my oc snapped and regained his role as the true Dark Lord of the Sith.
@@RyanTheDark as much as i dislike the dark side, thats actualy quite a good story, and it makes sence, a jedi withoud proper will power in a dark side nexus (wotch korriban itself is) will be corrupted and turned to the dark side :D
I love how this wasn't a cutscene, you killed them as if they were some trash mobs. Added so much to the scene. They don't need any dramatic last words or a sad 1 minute long death scene, storywise it's already obvious and clear what's happening with Revan and what you have to do now
'funny', my first playthrou was this 'nightmare' scenario for Jolee: Juhani dead in the grove on Dantooine, Jolee dead in the temple of Rakata Prime, Zaalbaar kills Mission and Carth running away like twerp.. :D
On my very first play through which happen to be a dark side playthrough when I got to the point where you had to choose your fate. I just didn’t have the grit to kill joolee I just found it abominable.that stunt sent me all the way from the dark side to neutral I was pissed. But I followed my heart and I strictly play light side
The game mechanics agree. If you played entirely light side up until that point, do all the good things on all the other planets, but kill Jolee, you immediately gain enough bad guy points to count as dark side. So peacefully resolving the family feud on Dagobah, sparing the shark at Manaan, etc., rescuing people an Tatooine, etc. - all of it weighs less than betraying Jolee.
As a massive fan of Jolee Bindo and host of the podcast devoted to his origin story, Holocronicles of a Jedi (shameless plug), I felt sick to my stomach and I hated myself when I did a darkside playthrough of KOTOR. Killing Jolee was horrible. UGH! Never again!
*sigh* it's going to take a while before Lady Bastila stops bowing down to one who is her equal, but that aside we must begin the legacy of the 2 greatest dark lords of the sith under the emperor
I find it irritating you can't go into the temple alone. I'd be more curious if Jolee Bindo would turn on you if he hadn't been there directly seeing he's almost grey to begin with.
Jolee was a fool, the Jedi are cowards, if Revan didn't ignore the council the Manalorians would have rased the Galaxy, Malak was stupid but Darth Raven was a true leader!
Lots of people in this comment section seem convinced that evil Revan would have no problem taking on the Sith Emperor, a guy who is functionally immortal and can turn an entire planet into a dead wasteland that doesn't leave a single blade of grass alive with a single force attack. A guy who killed the most powerful Sith Lord on the Dark Council with his bare hands as an afterthought. Sure.
"The return of the terror of the Sith" and yet, what actually happened? Five years later the Sith is in Tatters and Revan is gone to the far side of the galaxy
So the lesson is this. A padawan can defeat the dark jedi. But the dark jedi can kill many jedi. Statement: Being a padawan is better as being a jedi so the real reason why Jolee was angry was that they tried to make him a jedi.🤣🤣🤣
You forgot to includ the last dialog of Jolee bindo gives you. Revan ask, why do you follow me. Jolee feel it was hard to explain so he tell revan a fairy tale about a kid that saw a snake close to his Village and he start follow it for many kilometers until the snake had enough of it and bits him. The snake tell the dying kid "Why you were so dumb to follow me here" The kid answer: Following you? I thought I was driving you away from my village. Revan felt conflicted to be represented with the snake, but Jolee clarifide that revan had the potential of been the hero or the villan in this story and he wanted to be there when ever that happens. Jolee have alot of hope and faith in you, but he is well aware of the danger he is on.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
"Oh I get it let's play with the man's head is it?! He's half senile! He'll forgot I said anything!" - Jolee Bindo
“Uhhh what were we talking about again”-Jolee Bindo
God he had the best lines.
@@trikstari7687 KOTOR had so many great and sometimes funny quotes from HK-47, Jolee Bindo, Mission Vao etc.
Lashowe - Do you know how many Sith there are in Dreshdae?
Jolee Bindo - Twelve. No wait. Thirteen?
Agreed.
@@imnotcreative2214 ]⁰]I
Okay, yea killing Jolee is wrong... But making Zalbarr kill Mission is 10000000000% times worse imo
2 for 1
@@DarkLOREDash lmao! fair
That be like if Vader used the force to make Chewy strangle Han.
Hehehe that's my favorite thing to do😂😂
The only moment better was murdering Carth.
Jolee- "Judge me for my crimes, Masters."
The council- "We find you innocent."
Jolee- "Seriously? The fck is wrong with you people?"
Innocent?
Hardly.
They just forgave him if I ain't mistaken.
Maybe I am.
LOL...Ya know. I read that in Principal Lewis Voice? Given they are the same voice actor.
@@jtsharp6129 I can't go back to the conclave, I took a deuce in the archives!
The deeper issue was that he could not forgive himself rather than the Jedi forgiving him.
250+ likes and still underrated comment
I was 17 when this game came out. I had been used to being the hero and stopping the villain. Stopping the villain to become the villain was a new concept for me.
Imagine, the Revan reveal was apparently pretty clear coming for most people. I was like 10-12 and it blew my little mind.
@@DamianSzajnowski There were some things that I wondered about, but I brushed them off because I didn't think that a video game would do that to me. Once it was revealed, it all made sense.
what interests me is that Bindo is not provoked by Revan's comments, and is only sarcastic at the most. once you break through his wall, he opens up and shows how much of an intelligent and honesy deep character he is. Bindo seems to make his life purpose helping others understand where he didnt, and helping others succeed where he did not.
He is my favorite party member
The thing I love about the conversations in this game is that they are so natural that they don't feel like they are scripted even if they are
Yep. This game made us feel like we were immersed in that world.
Mmm. The Revan/Bastila romance still felt forced to me.
@@minicle426 true, they didnt rly explore it in thebest way
@@minicle426 yhh that true. Biowares writing wasn't all that great especially for the PC. But it was incredibly immersive
@minicle426 idk, it didn’t feel forced for me, actually I always thought it’s one of the best written romance stories in games of that time. Bastila was one of Revan’s fangirls even before she knew him personally, you can learn it from one of the Jedi masters on Dantooine. I think that could be part of the reason she saved him despite his brain was already damaged. And Revan first saw her in a slave outfit and thought “wow, hot girl with hot temper” and starts teasing her and flirting. So the attraction was there from the beginning, and their Force Bond do the rest, letting them feel each other on a whole different level that only few of jedis could even comprehend.
The dark side in this game was so satisfying. You could be hilariously evil in every interaction, and you got a sweet factory as a reward
Best part: Revan would have arguably kicked the shit out of Vitiate/The True Sith Emperor had he won. I imagine the Galaxy would have been a more pleasant place, given how Revan's forces consist of slightly more merciful Fallen Jedi, newly anointed Sith eager to follow (and given Revan's style, he wouldn't randomly massacre people like Malak did).
@@StriderBaron I’m curious, is there a “canonical” timeline of what would have happened after the DS ending of KOTOR?
@@StriderBaron pretty sure the overall point of the dark side (at least before Disney as idk anymore) was that you would always eventually fall to your paranoia and lust for more power. Even the best of intentions starting mutate into hate and rage
@@UnholyWrath3277 Not wrong. I can count the number of relatively sane Sith on one hand. Just figured he'd have more of a shot at killing the Emperor and still managing to avoid the Emperor devouring all reality without having been killed the way he was.
@@UnholyWrath3277 thats what they explore in the game and is observed in the movies ofcourse. Anakin goes from “i have to save the woman i love and our unborn child” to “i will bring peace, and stability to my new empire” awfully quickly. Yuthra ban (however you spell it) intended to use her new power she gained to free her fellow slave. Instead she became obsessed with scheming to gain control of the academy etc etc
I think it's because of Bindo's regret and pain, and the understanding he gained from his experience, is the reason he was ready to become a Jedi knight. He wasn't being rewarded. He had earned it through experience.
I wish there were options to tell Bastila that you don't stand against Malik for the Jedi Counsel, but because it's the right thing to do.
Revan defeats Malak, replaces him with the loyal Bastila, Revan defeats the Republic, consolidates power, then defeated Vitiates Army. Problem solved.
Except we know from KotOR II that even in the dark version he goes to fight Vitiate alone instead.
I prefer The Reapers to Vitiate, as Vitiate just seems like Golbez; whereas The Reapers are like an army of Jenovas!
You're a giant nerd if you understand this.
Also, Bioware's original concept for KotOR 2 was Jade Empire! I think Obsidian made a better story on worldbuilding and exploring philosophy, but Bioware's KotOR 2 *100%* was the better scripted story!
Seriously! Compare KotOR 2 and Jade Empire, and it becomes obvious that all the hand-wringing complaints about how KotOR was: "too simplistic" has *ALWAYS* been complete bullshit. Bioware wanted to make an evil Yoda be the villain in KotOR 2, but they decided to work on a new IP while keeping the main conceptual design! Then they stole KotOR 3's concept from Obsidian to make _MASS EFFECT._
Long story short, Reapers > Vitiate.
#fightme
@@thesurvivorssanctuary6561 Well, it's not because of BIoware vs. Obsidian. As far as I know, they were explicitly banned from making an "evil Yoda" story in Star Wars by Lucasfilm - some say by Lucas himself. They had to move it to China, with... some obvious traces.
Also, KotOR 2 was scripted worse because they cut half the script and simplified the rest ;)
Reven has a history of making bad choices especially because his plan was to use a army of robots to kill the sith empire
Well researched, well explained, and gotta love your Sith voice when you read the MC's dialogue!
Thank you so much! Voicing the dialogue is my favourite part of making the videos.
@@DarkLOREDash There are a few times that I hear you reading the script, and fund myself wondering why Carth Onasi is the saying the lines. Your readings fit the story so well, that I am always thrilled to listen.
I have long viewed Jolie Bindo as being second only to HK-47 for humor.
I was never one to be cruel in conversation, but I rarely had problem being a properly courteous, respectful, and supportive Dark Lord, after all there is never any reason to be nasty, they will find death to be...insult enough if the fail to join my quest.
It has however, long been my greatest sorrow that you may not corrupt Dustil Onasi to your cause and kill Carth when you encounter him on Korriban.
There's also the fact that Bindo represents the (supposedly impossible) balance between the light and dark side of the force, signifying that Revan at this moment rejects not only the light, but also the middle ground option.
It's interesting that in game stats, Jolee's pretty much a light side boy scout. I like to think of him that by turning away from the most rigid Jedi dogmas, he unconsciously became the ultimate epitomy of good. A great character in a great game.
@@yarpen26 not sure what you're remembering but he was mixed dark/light according to stats. His behavior seemed kinda non-commitally light-ish.
I've been playing this game for years and have never heard this backstory. This was good to learn.
I actually didn't put 2+2 together until recently
So you never bothered to talk to Jolee very much
@@ArvelDreth Hahahahahaha. Not this in depth. I think I got as far as that love triangle side story on Manaan.
@@sprbwlshuffler92 love triangle? He didn't have a love triangle side story. His friend was accused of murdering a Sith woman.
@@ArvelDreth Which was the love triangle. Friend + Friend's wife + SIth woman
I loved every moment of me cutting down Jolee Bindo and Juhani.
Then killing Mission through the use of Zalbaar.
That was so brutal XD.
Pure Dark within a few minutes
I just regret that in the game you lack a "I need to be the dark lord but I don't want just to become a monster" line. An option in which you let a chance for Jolee to flee, even if at the end he decided to attack you.
The game was so much more emotionally engaging because it forces you to make all these cruel decisions for the dark path, I mean it is the dark side…
Kotor was about the narrative experience of Revan, not the “player” as in many other games where the in-game protagonist is a representation of you. These were the choices faced by Revan, no cop outs allowed!!
@@MrDMIDOV It would have been pretty compelling to have a Revan that started Light, then Dark, then managed something in-between. But as KotOR II would explore, the Force doesn't let people pick a middle road, not really... Even if it might have been pretty cool.
@@Sticksnstones77 Kotor II only presents Revan in absolute terms because it's how the galaxy views him from what they know of him. They don't know the path he went on to get one of those two endings. Much the same as what we know about historical figures is what history lets us know, but those who were there with them may have completely different perspectives.
I typically start a Kotor playthrough being "darkside", but not an absolute monster, more of a greedy jackass that still has some sort of heart. I start to lean to the light on Dantooine without being an overbearing "good guy", but over time gravitate towards neutral due to the sum total of my actions. I still don't understand why people play these games thinking they absolutely need to be light or dark at all times. That's basic af, unrealistic, and not compelling.
In KOTOR II, there's many compelling scenarios you can arrive at that wouldn't show up if you were some sort of all or nothing villain/brown nosing hero. I remember going above and beyond in order to obtain a slave girl from some criminal for her lover. Rather than doing what most dark side simpletons would do, and deny the mission or take the criminal's bribe, I actually saved her out of my own pocket, but then I told her lover he had to buy her from me now, he attacked me out of rage, and after killing him I told his slave lover what had happened and let her go free
@Kätzchen Spoken like an absolute tool, my man. Damn shame you'll never see any of the good shit in games.
Nope. Star wars doesnt work like that. When you fell to the darkside is because you have put your selfish desires for powers and dominance over the rest of life.
Its in impossible to fall to the darkside without becoming a monster eventually
After playing this game multiple times for different endings, it's a travesty I completed it thinking Jolee was a minor character without knowing about his past. And... I suspect this is true of many of us who did not continue digging after we found the first treasures the game offered.
It's so cool that Jolee was the inspiration behind Kreia in KotOR 2; and that Obsidian's KotOR 3 concept was the inspiration for Mass Effect!
My first playthrough i left kashyyyk for the last star map and didnt spend enough time with him to know/care about his character, so killing him didnt mean anything to me until i learned his story in another playthrough. The game truly is incredible for its age.
The immersion was strong in that game. When I played light side I was into saving Bastila and stopping Malak. When I played dark side it was exhilarating killing Jolee and Juhani. The journey of playing the two absolutes gets you really into being a hero or being a villain. That was what made it such a great game. You have to truly be evil to play dark side.
Best was killing Carth after making him fall in love with you as a female Revan
jeez who in their right mind gets off on killing someone you manipulated into loving you.
@@nomadjensen8276 psychopaths
@@nomadjensen8276 it’s a video game. Nobody got hurt buddy.
@@nomadjensen8276 Oh look, toxic people that can't disagree and move on...
Jeez, why would they put that in the game on the darkside playthru I wonder?
Grow up. If you can't understand that a dark side playthru is suppose to be just as fun as light size playthru that's your damn problem. Either side you play the outcomes were there for immersion.
@@nomadjensen8276 someone into ROLEPLAYING GAMES
So the question becomes... Was it that Bastila hadn't truly fallen yet, or was it that Jolee's wife didn't truly love him?
I dunno. I think maybe Bindo loved Namaya more than she loved him. Or she loves power more 😔 but that body
I think partly because Bastila seems to never have deeply lusted for power but rather acceptance and love. Jolee's flame had different priorities, she was not tortured into giving in to the dark side
@@DarkLOREDash Sometimes we men foolishly underestimate how lust can turn into semi-reciprocated or unrequited love for either of two
@@Crafty_Spirit which makes us wonder what attracted Bastila to Revan to want to become his wife. I think she seen him sometimes during their youngling years and as they got older before his suppose fall to the darkside pre reformed Revan. Wish there was more build up. Like was she drawn to his control of the force? How he carried himself? His leadership? Or his stance as a neutral character that freely accepts that he is neither Full Jedi or Sith. But they but half of who he is. Then again all we got was him seeing her at her lowest point regarding her mother
@Crafty_Spirit True. Even on the dark side, Bastila resents the idea to bow to the Jedi council and call them “masters” but at the same time she practically begged Revan to become her master and lover and rule the sith empire together.
Betraying Carth was worse. Forced to run away from his best friend and live a life forever on the run, or killed by his lover in cold blood.
I like to say that I did a chaotic neutral run. I freed people from Czerka, ended slavery and demandes credits for all of that. Told Bastilla to shove it, told Carth to man up, and destroyed the Sith academy in Korriban cuz I despise those assholes. But, yeah, I embraced the name Revan. And in doing so, killed my friends. But hey, I freed Kashyykk ✌
For the longest while i had the wrong idea about his exile, which i guess makes sense cuz i was a kid when i played this game first time
But him saying "I am a Jedi." makes him sound like he exiled himself because the council that found him innocent weren't really jedi while in the meantime he considered himself more of a jedi than they ever were.
You are an underrated information generator, good sir. I salute you.
Thank you, my pleasure!
making Zalbarr kill Mission just to see what would happen... i felt so dirty that i needed a shower afterwards.
I'm surprised by how many people didn't know this about Jolee.
I've personally maxed out every conversation tree with every companion 10 times over
The worst death in kotor lore belongs to the taris sewer people. No matter who you give the journal too, in swtor the survivors make it to the promise land only to get destroyed by time. Broke my heart the first time I discovered what had happene when I was near the end of my questing on Taris 💔
Jolee is really the most intriguing and realistic character.
This is deconstruction done right.
I always found the conversations with both Jolee and Kreia thought provoking, not to mention immersive
Murdering Jolee is like killing Paathunaax, both devoid of reason other than cruelty.
"I won her over, you know, after I kidnapped her. 🙂" Um, Jolee? Can you go back a few sentences? I think you skipped a few steps
The Dark Side route in this game was very depressive because all the characters were so likableand you basically wipte them out, and Bastilla just become kind of brain dead as a dark force user.
Sith are supposed to be self serving and calluous. For both of those traits are encouraged by the dark side and the Sith
Kindaof annoying actually. The sith seem convinced that they have to be cartoonishly evil stereotypes. They almost always seem to fail to realize that part of the point of being in the "dark side" is to do whatever you want. It doesn't feel like you are truly doing whatever you want if you are following some old cult's rules on "proper" evil.
@@joshk.4470 a slave to your own power right?
@@jojomuppet1820 Maybe, maybe not. It's up to you and probably depends greatly on self discipline & will power.
Bastila really gets into it, great for roleplay. Revan you lucky man.
The fact that this game is still open to interpretation and is still found interesting by countless people speaks to how much passion went into creating this wonderful game. I firmly believe this is the greatest video game that has ever been created
If Jolee was Principal Lewis then KOTOR would have played out very, very differently.
Well done video man! The time you put in payed off greatly, thank you!
Bastila Dark Side is hot. lol
KOTOR has been my favourite game since it came out. I've played through it dozens of times. I have never heard Jolee's backstory before. What an awesome game.
The thing that I always find funny when I play KOTOR is when I leave the Jedi enclave and come back with red lightsabers and the Jedi council sees nothing wrong with that.
Can’t wait for the remake hope they didn’t change it a lot
Can only pray
Best to keep your expectations low to avoid disappointment.
After hearing certain comments from writers involved.... Keep expectations very, very low
@@erikenn she’s not involved any more she was fired or left the team.
@@luckyraygun1607 if the remake team hired her, what’s to say they haven’t hired others like her
Look on the bright side Jolee didn't end up out the "Windu"
I would love to see a Jolee Bindo series on Disney+. Dude sounds like he had an interesting past.
Trying to escape prison & fiending for Namayas booty? Count me in
i agree but making forcing a wookie to kill his best friend is worse ngl
Dude, I love your vids. You point out stuff people (including myself) sometimes forget or over-look. Makes me wanna boot up KOTOR again. Keep up the good work! Curation is needed in any good lore. :)
A great sith once said
"So be it, Jedi."
And making Z kill mission was deliciously evil.
Killing Jolee is gut wrenching, yes. Zaalbar killing Mission for Revan still brings a lump to my throat!
"Shut up old man!"
Haha dunno why, that just makes me snicker each time.
We really need a Jolee fan movie
Jolee was one of my favorites in this game. Would never kill him.
By the end of the game,Jolie becomes like a loving Grandfather.
While Juhani like the extra annoying older sister.
I feel relatively not terrible removing her out of the picture,but Jolee is something else entirely.
Still no regrets. I let the darkside flow through my character like water.
Jolee is a hard fight after you fight Bastila.
Yet they exiled Ashoka without mercy & without hesitation. They believed the words & "evidence", of strangers, over one of their own... ⚔⛓ my friends.
This just shows that in the end self-righteousness is foolishness which is what the Jedi are accused of all the time
Different times, different councils... But yes, of course they were wrong with Ashoka, but they recognize it at the end. I believe that Ashoka had a too idealistic view of the council before those events, and that's becaise of this "fall" in her eyes thst she decided to leave the order. Maybe she could have tried change things from the inside, a bit like Qui Gon... But that would have been another story🤷♂️
The Jedi lost their way. As Baris said, they were a force working for the Darkside. Even if they didn’t realize it.
The real question is why did he betray me? I did not demand anything of him. He was the one that picked that fight, Not my fault he was dumb
Jolee is the best companion. I always take him to party as an ultimate healing/buffing/zapping machine and he is also one of my favourite characters in terms of lore (ofc HK-47 is number one) Btw what graphic mods are you using?
This is the one reason I would struggle to do a full dark side playthrough... I truly wish there was some option to convince the old geezer to just walk away, rather than be forced to slaughter him.
By comparison, convincing the walking carpet to gun down the annoying blue chick is somewhat hilarious..!
Facts
I just killed him and got this dialogue to see what would happen, then killed mission too, never been so sad at the deaths of characters, even trying to do a darkside run, it just hurts man, joleee is a great guy
Who could murder Jolee? He’s one of the best characters! Yet again all the characters in Kotor are great
Yeah but Dark Side
Having an Empire with Bastila sounds nice
I mean I've done it atleast twice but he's one of my favorites
Am I the only one who was kinda bothered that we never got to learn the ultimate fate of some of the KoTOR-spuad? Sure, Carth became an admiral, Canderous became Mandalore...but I'm just so sad that nothing is known of Jolee Bindo, Zaalbar, Mission Vao. They were not even mentioned once in KoTOR 2, or SWTOR... or have I completely missed something, maybe in a novel or comic book or smthg?
The revan book mentions mission/zaalbar are running their own shop on coruscant and he didn't want to disrupt their new life.
Also including in the Revan novel, I believe it was mentioned Juhani and Jolee were made full fledged Jedi.
@@adventmemory2247 Ah okay, it seems I have some catching up to do on my reading. Thanks!
Also I believe Vette is a descendant of Mission
unlocked some story about jole bindo and possibly that a xenomorphic shape shifter might have killed him while attempting to open the map set and his force self then overtook that said xenomorphic shape shifter which would explain why his conversations are so.... what?
I absolutely loved this game when it came out, the story was so good and the reveal aboard Malaks flagship was awesome.
when i first played the game, i went to Kashyyk right away - because Wookies - and i met Jolee and I really liked him, having him as my second permanend follower - after Bastilla - and of course having his conversations. ffw to rakata prime i went lightside and theres that. after that i played an evil Revan ffw to Rakata Prime having his Story fresh in my mind, I couldn't kill him, I just couldn't. I made a Hard Save and went Dark Side. I cried after I slew Jolee. He was the only Game character i can think of where I cried - and some times still cry when I play DS - after he died. After finishing this run I went back to the Hard Save and finished the Run LS. Gotta say, that felt good for the Soul, but it was a bit Wacky when I saw a Corrupted Revan at the LS ending cinematic.
I cant hurt an old man or woman even if theyre evil bastards, jolee bindo grunpy as he is is awesome and adorable, his life story is well made, interesting and sad, seeing him die hurts alot especialy because its basicaly history repeating itself, mission being killed is super horrible too, and juhani? To me the jedi see her as a toy, i wonder whos worse the jedi or the sith? Well obv the sith but you the reader knows what i mean, i never have playtroughs in the dark side for reasons like these
I’m doing a dark side playthrough right now and I feel like a horrible person
@@Scary_Snail129 i asume that was the intention of the developers 🤣atleast you have courage, i flinch at the sight of the very thought of doing evil things in kotor xd
On my dark side playthrough, I had him started out light, but upon realizing and the truth and on Korriban, my oc snapped and regained his role as the true Dark Lord of the Sith.
@@RyanTheDark as much as i dislike the dark side, thats actualy quite a good story, and it makes sence, a jedi withoud proper will power in a dark side nexus (wotch korriban itself is) will be corrupted and turned to the dark side :D
Wait, so is the dark side of killing Jolee just becoming sith? Is that it. I replayed the end a couple of times but I'm confused.
I love how this wasn't a cutscene, you killed them as if they were some trash mobs. Added so much to the scene. They don't need any dramatic last words or a sad 1 minute long death scene, storywise it's already obvious and clear what's happening with Revan and what you have to do now
One of the few games that has stood the test of time. When are we gonna see Exar Kuns war?! Thats the new KOTOR game we need.
'funny', my first playthrou was this 'nightmare' scenario for Jolee: Juhani dead in the grove on Dantooine, Jolee dead in the temple of Rakata Prime, Zaalbaar kills Mission and Carth running away like twerp.. :D
I disagree. While killing Jolee is heart breaking, Mission’s death and Big Z’s life debt has much more impact to me.
On my very first play through which happen to be a dark side playthrough when I got to the point where you had to choose your fate. I just didn’t have the grit to kill joolee I just found it abominable.that stunt sent me all the way from the dark side to neutral I was pissed. But I followed my heart and I strictly play light side
Can you post these as podcasts? Especially the deep delves into diablo lore? I'd love to listen to these while working out or driving
Jolee is the best star wars character... and I quote "Does a story have to have a point!" Best line in the game!
The game mechanics agree. If you played entirely light side up until that point, do all the good things on all the other planets, but kill Jolee, you immediately gain enough bad guy points to count as dark side. So peacefully resolving the family feud on Dagobah, sparing the shark at Manaan, etc., rescuing people an Tatooine, etc. - all of it weighs less than betraying Jolee.
Wow. That must be Vampira Bastila. She's blue! All the blood is drained from her. She didn't look that way here.
As a massive fan of Jolee Bindo and host of the podcast devoted to his origin story, Holocronicles of a Jedi (shameless plug), I felt sick to my stomach and I hated myself when I did a darkside playthrough of KOTOR. Killing Jolee was horrible. UGH! Never again!
0:16 Mod right? Cause I don't remember Bastila looking so, so... Well, he he big?!
Yeah all toons are using fens mods
Yeah all toons are using fens mods
@@DarkLOREDash
Aha.
So is it possible to download an image making Revan look more like Keanu Reaves for exampl,e?
*sigh* it's going to take a while before Lady Bastila stops bowing down to one who is her equal, but that aside we must begin the legacy of the 2 greatest dark lords of the sith under the emperor
That 50 xp is really humiliating. This old creep deserved that. He knew that you are Revan all the time.
What makes Jollie a creep? he was like one of the best characters in the game.
man, I've never gotten far with Bindo as I tend to do Kashyyyk towards the end. 😢
Anyone disarm and undress your companions before reaching the top level of the temple and joining Bastilla? It’s the evil thing to do.
Ironically, in Jolee's day, adult training of Jedi was common.
I find it irritating you can't go into the temple alone. I'd be more curious if Jolee Bindo would turn on you if he hadn't been there directly seeing he's almost grey to begin with.
Jolee was a fool, the Jedi are cowards, if Revan didn't ignore the council the Manalorians would have rased the Galaxy, Malak was stupid but Darth Raven was a true leader!
In the remake, KotOR needs a Grey Jedi storyline
I never made it past killing jolee and juhani. I always felt bad and reloaded my previous save
Well done! 💯👍🏽
one of my favorite characters was Jolee Bindo HE WAS HILARIOUS
Reven should have turned dark side Canon wise and taken all sith forces from star forge to fight valkorion ...I spelt that wrong probably
Jolee Bindo is the only person I consider to have been Revan Reborn's master and it will never be those Jedi on Dantooine!
Bastila: kill him!
Revan: >:)
Jolee: man what the hell
I know it's not the same voice actor, but I feel like I'm talking to Madara Uchiha when I talk to Jolee
Me watching this: there was people who killed jolee
Lots of people in this comment section seem convinced that evil Revan would have no problem taking on the Sith Emperor, a guy who is functionally immortal and can turn an entire planet into a dead wasteland that doesn't leave a single blade of grass alive with a single force attack. A guy who killed the most powerful Sith Lord on the Dark Council with his bare hands as an afterthought.
Sure.
I feel kinda bad bc my first play through I made the wookie kill mission, I was a terrible man back then
"The return of the terror of the Sith" and yet, what actually happened? Five years later the Sith is in Tatters and Revan is gone to the far side of the galaxy
I always unequipped all the equipment I had on Jolee and Juhani right before that fight if I was doing a Dark Side run lol
thats a good malgus impression
So the lesson is this. A padawan can defeat the dark jedi. But the dark jedi can kill many jedi. Statement: Being a padawan is better as being a jedi so the real reason why Jolee was angry was that they tried to make him a jedi.🤣🤣🤣
I love hearing Baldur's Gate voice actors on this
You forgot to includ the last dialog of Jolee bindo gives you.
Revan ask, why do you follow me.
Jolee feel it was hard to explain so he tell revan a fairy tale about a kid that saw a snake close to his Village and he start follow it for many kilometers until the snake had enough of it and bits him.
The snake tell the dying kid "Why you were so dumb to follow me here"
The kid answer: Following you? I thought I was driving you away from my village.
Revan felt conflicted to be represented with the snake, but Jolee clarifide that revan had the potential of been the hero or the villan in this story and he wanted to be there when ever that happens.
Jolee have alot of hope and faith in you, but he is well aware of the danger he is on.
Wow, that is profound. Sad I forgot it
@@DarkLOREDash Don't worry man you can do a part 2 of this subject and include it.
How did you get Revan's robes before the star forge?