Are the SIX ZERO Diamonds TOO GOOD? (Paddle Review)
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- Опубликовано: 22 авг 2024
- #pickleball #paddle #review
A little look into the gems that are the the Black Diamond and Double Black Diamond paddles from 6zero Pickleball. So good Ben Johns had to tweet about it 😂
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Some of you guys may be wondering about these thermoformed paddles and the delaminating issues. I was going to originally talk about delamination as a whole in this review but out of fairness decided against it because I have witnessed and heard it happening to different paddles across different brands and I can't retcon any videos i've already posted previously. I personally don't believe this issue is as huge an issue as people tend to make it out to be but only time will tell how these companies handle these issues and if you have had experiences with delamination feel free to share your experiences in the comment section, be nice y'all 🙏
Great review. Do you know if the DBD has had extra glue added like some of the others by now?
@@neilmm I have a DBD on order and contacted them to ask if my paddle will have extra glue. He said “it’s more complex than that” but didn’t indicate what they have actually done to remedy the issue.
@@neilmm Yes six zero told me by email 2gm was added. Also I think I heard they are using machines to apply the glue instead of people.
Hey Will, fantastic review! We must be on the same wavelength, because I'm writing the script for my review of these paddles, and it pretty much hits the same points as you. Good confirmation. Also, I always enjoy the production quality of your videos. Thanks for all the good work!
Thanks John love having you in the community and sharing your work 🙏
I tried it for dbd 16mm for doubles game. I like the power, spin, control for drives. I find response little bit slow on volley and dinks may due to stiffness or i didnt warm up enough. I would probably prefer 14mm dbd
All I have to say is, all your reviews are so good really appreciate the time you put into these videos and you deserve way more subs keep it up! 👌🏼
I appreciate that!
Hi Will, I just got forwarded an email for the triple black diamond? Not too much detail on it so far but it states elongated shape with longer handle? Any insight you can give since it’s called the ‘’Willanator” ? I was just going to purchase a ruby but will be waiting now i think.
Love my Black Diamond. It takes a good amount of touch to tame but hits so crisp coming off the face, 8:21 which I like. I’d equate it to playing ping pong with the thin paddles with barely any cushion.
Agree with that analogy
I just have one question - how long do you and Chris recommend microwaving them before hitting them with a mallet to get the face to delaminate? 🤣
Boil in a 1 to 1 mixture of extra virgin olive oil and Dr. Pepper. Then strike 5 times with Thor’s hammer.
I personally use an airfryer and ask my mom to hit it with her chanclas 🩴 before adding a pinch of old bay. Might just give USAPA and PPA a heart attack 😅
it's funny you say this because in softball, there are many different techniques to get the carbon fiber to "break in"...there's rolling your bat which is putting it into a vice-like machine with rollers and cranking down on the barrel while turning it.... there's hitting with a rubber mallet.... there's shaving which you remove the end cap and thin out the insides of the barrel with a hone and then there's sanding, which takes a few layers off of the clear coat on the outside of the bat to make it thinner and more bounce to it.....i wouldn't be surprised if pickleball paddle altering is far behind...BTW all of this is cheating in softball and subject to 5 year suspensions and lifetime bans possible, even the coach gets the penalty...UGH
@@PickleballWill Ahhh - I was using my wife's crocs
Two words: Ninja Foodie
DBD is my favorite paddle (I also own a legacy pro). I’d like for them to make one with a bit longer handle but I don’t mind the handle as is. I also added weight to 9/3 and it helped with stability
What do you like about it more than the legacy pro
@@scooby7877 I need a bit more time with the legacy to really give a good answer
how much did you add to the 3 and 9 spots? i bought some tape and i think i added too much lol.
@@yNotFPS I think i added .4 oz to each side. So it’s just shy of 9oz if I remember right.
Which one has more control?
One category I'd like to see reviewers start to use (or maybe include in the control category) is consistency in power. And what I mean by that is how intuitive the power is. Does the power feel linear -- if I swing twice as fast, does the ball feel like it comes off twice as fast. Or does the power feel more exponential - as I swing faster, the factor of speed off the paddle also increases. This is how I feel about the Black Diamond vs. the Legacy Pro, for example. The BD doesn't feel nearly as soft or plush, so one might call it a power paddle. But, it's power is very consistent and intuitive. Once you use it for a minute, you know how it will respond. The Legacy Pro, while much softer, feels harder to tame, because you don't quite know how the ball will come off it. So, while softer and plusher, it is not nearly as consistent as the BD -- and that factors heavily into control.
I see what you are saying, interesting thought and I'll consider it for future reviews. Intuitiveness for power would probably be just as subjective as the other traits in a paddle since what is intuitive to one person may not be to others. I have played tennis extensively and I would say the EVA foam paddles feel quite intuitive to me where to other people it just is incredibly jarring. I typically consider power from the current performance of what I feel the average market provides as a whole. As the market shifts and technology improves the standard/norm continues to change. Thats why I think the Legacy is just in a different league and also why i'm kind of glad to see experimental paddles like the Diadem Vice and Ronbus EV1. Appreciate the input and ideas and will try and find a more "intuitive" way to explain power 🙏
@@PickleballWill Thanks for the thoughtful response. Yeah, everything to some degree does feel subjective. I'm really excited to see where EVA goes. Haven't played it yet but waiting for a legal implementation - like planned Ronbus Ripple.
Great point! I know with my Head Radical Tour CO the power is intuitive and I know where the ball is going to land. When I miss it's not by much and I probably hit it too hard or not with enough topspin. With my Legacy Pro the power sometimes surprises me. Balls will fly out at times when they are not hit that hard. I wonder if there is a difference between straight power and power from "pop", which seems less intuitive and less controllable. At least to me.
Interesting. I own a BD as well as a Legacy Pro and have the exact opposite opinion on feel. The Legacy feels MUCH firmer than the Six Zero BD with power/pop to boot. The same serves I put a foot in front of baseline will fly OB with the Legacy. Having a tough time with the soft game when playing the Legacy Pro, but giving it a chance. When $$$ or bragging rights are on the line, I'm reaching for the BD.
Their website said they will ship at the end of April. I used your discount code 😉. But they actually shipped the same day from within the US.
Thanks for the great video! If I'm finding the DBD 14mm a little tough to control on touch shots, would adding lead tape help?
Love your reviews. Can I give one recommendation please? It’s “oriented” not “orientated”. Thank you-I feel better now😉.
Great review! Which Carbon thermoformed paddle for power and balance is the best? Crbn 1x 16, Legacy Pro or the Black Diamond power?
Did you mean a balance for "power" and "control"? If thats what you are asking i would probably say CRBN1x 16, Double Black Diamond 16, Vatic Pro 16, Vatic Flash 16
@@PickleballWill Yea that’s what I meant.. so legacy pro is not in that category?
Thanks
It’s just different you are going to have to play with it to see but it honestly depends on what level you play at and what paddle you are coming from but I wouldn’t put it in the “balanced” category
👌👏👏 4 stars out of 5 - Did not work for me. I tried the 14mm 6.0 double black but it did not work for me. Started getting heavy shoulder pain and elbow pain.
My background is from league tennis 3.5 level in PB too. Having tennis elbow is usually expected for me but getting shoulder pain was horrible with this 6.0 paddle.
I am taking a temporary 2 week break. I use Joola Hyperion and Ronbus paddles primarily. Loved this 6.0 paddle and it was a tough decision to return my 6.0 paddle.I did finally.
Love the feel of the paddle otherwise.
Please share any alternative paddle options within th 60 paddle family. I love the PB game and hope to play the game very soon.
Thanks.
I just order the Black Diamond. My main paddle is the Forza but I just wanted to try this paddle out. Don’t know if I’ll switch from the Forza but it’ll be a good paddle to have in my bag.
We are in Queensland Australia. Where these paddles are made. All be it roughly 1000miles from the Caloundra base. We have a high exposure to these paddles. Most in the club have tried them. With a handfull purchasing them. I have ordered one of the new 14mm versions. As my thoughts were that while the spin felt above my Selkirk Labs Project 003, the power wasnt as mindblowing as I had hoped. Remebering this is a feel from a short period of use. I did feel the sweetpot is enormous. If you already use heavy topspin and use corners of the paddle a lot, it was undeniably like nothing else available in Australia. This most definitely has a place in the next generation of paddles. Those that have swapped from Gearbox, Selkirk and Pro Kennex (all older gen paddles) have noticebly improved in power, accuracy and consistency of shots. Occassionally they can't control the power. ( that I couldn't "FEEL") These players noticeably hit harder now. (So I'm hoping when mine arrives it has a similar effect) My question is, like golf clubs, is there a diminishing level of return with respect to power? The stronger the payer you are do you recieve the same benefit as those that are, let's say, "3.5 at best".
And yes. To the question,"Do we have a player that that has a paddle that has delaminated." It started with one side. But within a day it was both sides. It is unbelievably loud and noticeable. No need to do the Olsen twin test of flexing the face with super strength thumbs. (although I did and he's correct. It crackles when it's broken)
The hilarious part is, he is in complete denial that its broken. Refuses to send it back. Is completely convinced it was always like that. On the side. He has admitted it has way more power now and bucket loads more spin.
In summary. Really greatful for this review Mr Chang. Can't wait for more inovation in pickleball and the contraversy that ensues.
Yes there is def diminishing returns for power as you play better and better players. You want as much power as you can without losing control and the ability to effectively reset the ball
@@PickleballWill After playing with the 14mm 2xblack diamond for about a month now, I think it has a lot of positives. I feel like there is better power and spin than all the other paddles I’ve used to date. You definitely use a different technique with ground strokes. Due to the increase in ball velocity, the ball tends loop less. Holding trajectory for longer before dipping. So, basically you re-calibrate for more spin , less drive in your stroke. The shape is not ideal. I would prefer more elongated. But it is what it is. The paddle works less well indoors with an indoor ball.
Thanks for the insight 🙏
I've used the 14mm BD couple of times and I'm liking it. Less pop than BD for sure, but more than the 16mm BD. Better Control than BD.
Can you share more about the difference between 14mm vs 16mm? Control, hand speed, feel?
These are dope paddles. Nice review Will! Unique stuff on the BD. I love that it’s different. Dale, the founder, equates it to a race car. It can really go but you need an excellent touch. DBD allows me to do everything with a little more forgiveness.
Just ordered the double black diamond primarily for doubles and interested to see how this compares to my current paddle (Vulcan v740). Been waiting to try the thermo formed and carbon paddles and this seems to be in line with my playing style. Thanks for the code, and the review!
Have you been able to try it out yet?
@@LegacyLoot unfortunately demand is high and will be getting one it seems in May. Six Zero however was good in letting me know where I stand in the queue.
@@themaddscot Okay, I see. I ordered mine not too long ago, so I imagine I have quite a wait!
@@LegacyLoot Finally got the paddle and played with it this past weekend and clinics. I will say I like the paddle a lot, and Will and others are spot on with the feel of this paddle. Spin (not my forte) is definitely more noticeable with top spin with standard serve and dinks with a bit of back spin/slice can catch some. Power is much better than my previous paddle though the dwell time on the face is longer with this paddle, perhaps the thermoforming as it is the first paddle I have tried with this tech. Overall very happy with it, will be keeping it and using it as my main paddle. Will be trying the Ronbus R1 Pulsar as well to make the final choice as I always have two in the bag.
@themaddscot Hey, thanks for taking the time to come back and tell me about it. I went ahead and ordered it a while ago. However, I got very lucky with lead times, and it should arrive tomorrow. I'm very excited to try it out!
I have a Vatic Pro V7. Very poppy. I get a couple aces per game, if I am on. I got a Legacy Pro delivered yesterday. Here is the issue....the Legacy feels very soft. It feels like one of the OG CRBN 16mm to me. I know that Will and Chris talk about the Legacy having so much power and you mention it in this vid too. In my experience, no way. It is an absolute control paddle. So I am pretty confused. I expected more power than my Vatic, but it is the other way around. In general, what I feel when i play with a paddle you've reviewed is pretty close to the way you describe (Will), but not this time. You do a great job describing. Now, I am wondering if Legacy changed something. They sent e-mails about changes they made to mitigate de-lamination, so perhaps they did in fact make a change that affects how the paddle plays. You would have an earlier version, I presume. Also, after one use, the Legacy is rattling like a moracca. That's what happens when you have too much glue - it becomes dislodged and bits are floating around in the honeycomb. My Vatic is not de-laminated. Compared to others that friends have. Same sound. Same power. Oh and one more thing. People have said that the Legacy is so different, so poppy, it takes a long time to get used to and hard to switch back. That is also not my experience. I can switch between a CRBN1 16mm and the Legacy and they are very close. Switching to the Vatic requires some re-calibration, but not the Legacy. So confused.
Haven’t hit a new one yet so when I get an updated one maybe I’ll do an update! Thanks for the comment. The Legacy feels soft like an EVA foam paddle in my experience. The EVA foam paddles like the VICE and Ronbus EV1 are very soft feeling but they rocket off the face so that’s the type of power I’m referring to when mentioning the Legacy. Kind of like how a tennis racket can send tennis balls flying. Hopefully that helps clear up your confusion possibly? I’ve heard some people hit with the new ones and say it’s a little different but they all tell me it’s still a powerful paddle
@@PickleballWill
Thank you for your response Will. I really appreciate it. Canadians are so nice! I have a buddy with a diadem vice so I understand how powerful that is. Trampoline-like. My legacy is nothing like that. I guess if you get a new Legacy and notice that it's a little bit different or a lot different that would be good to pass along. At the beginning of his latest podcast, Chris Olson said he noticed a difference in his new legacy although he still says it's powerful, like you said you heard the same. Maybe it's me. Thank you.
Just got my 6.0 double black diamond and liking it very much. However, having played with another paddle with shorter grip and more elongated face, I would prefer an option to have the same with 6.0…or maybe I can start working on my two handed backhand instead.
Nice let 6.zero know
Great video! Ordered the DBD! End of May or early June for delivery!
Will post after playing it!😯
DBD is a top notch paddle for the tech, price, quality, performance and durability. Good review!
I wanted to see how much this paddle would cost to ship to me and I used your code to get the best price. I was really just trying to see the total cost and I accidentally ordered it because their website redirected to the shop app which had all my information. I have been trying to explain to my wife that it was an accident but not gonna pretend that I'm not exited for a new paddle
How would you compare the dbd to the crbn 1x 16mm? And the BD to the crbn 1x 14mm?. This is like the main tiebreaker I need
Love my pink dbd, I call it Barbie, I have the legacy and prism, both great, Barbie does everything well, very balanced paddle!
Been playing the Legacy Pro for about 3 months 4 days a week. Have you heard of any of these paddles losing pop? Mine seems to have a mushy spot in middle. Thanks
Great reviews Will. Any update on these paddles now after using for another month? It sounded like you were leaning towards BD as your go to, or do you now favor the DBD?
If I had to choose between them it would be the DBD 16 just from a utility standpoint
Man I love my Double Black Diamond. Thinking about grabbing the black diamond just for some extra power but my double is pretty powerful
If you had BD you would pretty much have your basis covered for whatever you need in terms of playing performance haha I was thinking about using a DBD for doubles and the BD for singles
I was debating if I should buy the DBD 16mm or the Vatic Pro Flash 16mm. Do you know what the differences are? Online reviews are saying that they come from the same factory and virtually identical...do you agree? If so, should I just save money and go with the flash?
Vatics are very good and def better value. They play almost the same and I think for 90% of people you couldn't tell the difference. That being said I still think the feel of the DBD are better when they make contact with the ball but thats not to say the Vatics feel bad. The DBD just feels more solid and i really couldn't tell you why. If I had to pay money for one of them I think I would pay that extra for the DBD. That being said i'm probably slightly biased towards the DBD because i make a little bit better commission on them haha just being honest. Seriously though you can't go wrong with either of them
@@PickleballWill I appreciate your honest reviews and response. YOU ARE MY FAVORITE PICKLEBALL REVIEWER (I already made my order today and used your code)
Will !!!
You two hand backhand is absolutely beautiful.
I started pickling 2month ago and the backhands is my weakness, Im ambidextrous and need some work on the power from backline with the backhand.
I bought the Solarie 14mm because of your review. I demo it with other 7 paddles and Love the paddle!! Keep up the great review 🎉🎉😂❤🎉😂❤🎉
Cheers from Tampa.
Best of luck with the backhands! I'll be in Naples for US Open in April if you happen to visit
@@PickleballWill i will definitely try, becoming a dad in two weeks!
Best of luck 🤞🏽
does the double black diamond have more or less control than the legacy pro? Which would be better for 3rd shot drops? Which would be better for dinking?
DBD has more control and better for 3rd shots. Dinking is also a bit better. Honestly the only tough thing with the legacy is the 3rd shot drops
crbn 2x 16mm vs double black diamond 16mm. power and control. I am more curious of the control part.
They are pretty equal to me. I would say I have better control with the CRBNx16 but thats probably because I'm more use to that that fully elongated shape
It's official boys and gals. Truck-kun has become a Pickleball Paddle!
Watch out for the biggest Menace in Anime & Real Life history!
That would be the most OP paddle of all time
@Pickleball Will I saw the meme in the video ;) Black Diamond Truck-kun is live!
Nice review! You and Chris are the 2 of the best and I appreciate all the info you guys provide. I'm strongly considering the 6.0 DBD as my next paddle (replacing a Babolat RBEL Touch due to edge guard cracking). I feel the control I have with the Babolat has been excellent but getting to the point where I think I want a little more power but want to maintain quick reactions at the NVZ and not compromise control too much. I'm a intermediate 3.5 player. Any thoughts about whether the DBD would be a good choice? Also, is the colored edge tape you have on the paddle just colored electrical tape? Love the look with the bright green. Is there a brand you use?
I think the DBD is just a good paddle but I haven’t had much experience with the Babolat. As for colored edge tape it’s colored gaffers tape and there should be a link in the description for it to amazon
@@PickleballWill Thanks!
Very nice job on the video. I am considering a new thermoformed paddle but would like one with good touch for drops/dinks. I am using CRBN2 now so I am looking for a thermoformed with touch. Out of all the thermoformed you have tried (including Scorpeus), which do you think has the best touch? I've been looking at DBD but unsure of the feel, but now Scorpeus is out so I am unsure. Definltely like the DBD price better though.
Best Thermo for touch imho is Scorpeus, Ronbus Pulsar R1, Vatic PlV7 Prism (iffy if this is fully thermo)
How would you describe the control of the dbd 14mm? I know that thinker paddles have better control, but was wondering if the control of the dbd 14mm was worth the purchase.
It has good control as long as you are good with your resets and pickup volleys and confident with your drop volleys. It doesn’t feel uncontrollable
@@PickleballWill
Would you recommend the dbd 14mm or 16mm for average players?
Hi Will, which paddle do you think has an edge for singles? And how do you compare the PowerAir to DBD? Thanks
Depends on your style of play in singles but I would say it’s the BD. Power air and dbd are very different paddles dbd way easier to control
Will, did your test cover the 14mm double black diamonds AND how does it compare to the Hyperion 14mm… Thanks.
recently been playing with the 14mm DBD as I got it after the filming of my initial review, probably need to do an update vid. 14mm DBD is pretty much a better Hyperion 14mm in almost every way albeit not by much. Feels like its better built, it feels faster in the hands, handle shape is better, better spin, better price point, better touch/feedback. Like i said these improvements are marginal and my opinion but even in my original hyperion 14mm review I thought it was a great paddle that you really shouldn't buy. I would choose so many other paddles over the Hyperion 14mm and the DBD 14mm is top of that list.
can you test out the vulcan 940, it has some type of 4x carbon face if possible. I currently use joola hyperion 16 mm ben johns. I added a leather grip and 6 strips of lead at 4 and 8, and I love it. Trying to fine similar paddles that have a higher quality carbon face that doesn't ware down as fast.
Yea man i'll see if I can get my hands on them. I think its going to be tough trying to find something that doesn't wear down eventually
hey will, how much weight did you add to the 3 and 9 o clock positions in grams? i have the same paddle and im looking to add some stability aswell.
I usually start with a 2inch strip on both sides and for me thats about 0.15oz per side. I basically try to get the paddle close to 8.4 to 8.6oz
have you had a chance to compare the DBD 14mm vs 16mm. If so does the 14 mm result in much less control with 3rd shot drops and dinks?
To be honest no. Not in my experience with them. They perform similarly but the 14mm just has a bit of a different “feel”
@@PickleballWill a little less head heavy maybe?? Tough deciding when there aren't too many of them around to try. Appreciate the reply
Will, I just used your promo code to purchase a DBD 14mm with the cherry blossom coloring. I saved $18 by using your code. I'm a pickleball enthusiast and have been playing 6 months. I'm upgrading from an Onix Z5 paddle which I really like but it just doesn't generate a lot of spin. I was looking for a paddle that emphasizes control and spin and had some of the latest technologies. I'm not really worried about power as I could get plenty out of the Z5. Thanks for your review on these paddles.
You will get plenty of power with the DBD. Jane fun out there on the courts!
@PickleballWill - Great video as always. I was hoping you could give me some advice, I currently play with the Selkirk Power Air and I was looking for a little more control. Would you say the Double Black Diamond would be a good choice?
Yes for sure. You are going to lose some power though. Black Diamond could work as a middle ground. Your best option might be the 14mm DBD though which i recently got a chance to play with. But yea DBD is a very good paddle imho
@@PickleballWill Mind to tell how’s the DBD 16mm compare to the 14mm? Thanks!
I'm sure the difference is very subtle, but Six Zero claims the BD generates more spin than the DBD...do you agree?
Thanks for the reviews @PickleballWill I’ve come back to this video multiple times to read new comments. Sounds like you enjoy both the 14 DBD and the 16 DBD. Initially you said you preferred the 14 and in more recent comments you’ve said you like the 16. Could you clear this up for us please? I have both and have been using the 14 (Lead tape 3-9). I really like it but I just got my DBD 16 which I initially wanted but couldn’t get due to back order.
I tend to gravitate towards the 16mm between the DBDs now. They are just so similar and it’s most likely in my head but the 16mm to me feels a bit better for resetting
@@PickleballWill Thank you for response. I also agree with the discussion you guys had on recent pod about the 14 vs 16 differences, thinner paddles not feeling as powerful as expected.
I currently play with a gamma 405 paddle and I'm really leading towards this double diamond paddle because the reviews are consistent on this particular paddle and really good. My paddle is 13 mm and I'm trying to decide if I want a 14 mm or 16 mm paddle. I like power but I also like my control since I play with a lot of topspin on my shots but I also use a lot of slice when I'm being defensive in my singles games. I have a tennis background so I've always prefer my string tension in the middle to give me a balance with power and control but I feel like I need more pop on my paddle because I'm having to swing harder to achieve the power that I want with my current paddle. I know the thicker the paddle the less power I'll have but is there really that much of a difference between the 14 mm and a 16 mm for this pedal?
i have the same question @PickleballWill
Just curious what are you using to wrap the edge guard on your paddles? ie… at 6:00 in the video. I like how it breaks up the monotony of black as seen on most paddles. Also ordered the Black Diamond based on your and JohnKew’s reviews. Thanks Will!
Hey glad you enjoyed! So i use colored gaffers tape (doesn't leave residue) you can find an amazon link in the description of this video
@@PickleballWill Thanks for the info Will. I really enjoy the content you and Chris put out. I also ordered and used your code for the Legacy Pro back in early February. Still waiting on that paddle to get delivered similar to so many others likely based on your guys reviews. Keep it coming man and tell those guys to authorize your code again for the hats., it’s costing them orders lol.
Hahaha thanks man yea we trying to get a better working relationship with them
Love the video, Will! I’ve been playing with the power air and looking to switch. 4.0 and can use some more touch for doubles but don’t want to lose too much power. Any thoughts? Thanks again!
Probably go for the DBD 14. If you want more touch than the 16 could be a good option and if you don’t want to lose any power at all go for the Black Diamond, which will perform closer to the power air but with a bit better feel in my opinion.
So I think the DBD 14 is a pretty good choice between them all but the DBD 14 and 16 are so close in performance and I’ve heard from many people they enjoy the DBD 16 more because it feels better
@@PickleballWillback with an update for you. Got my DBD 14 two weeks ago. Absolutely love it. I notice a lot of touch with my soft game compared to the power air. Drops have been so enjoyable. Lost power on my serves, but I want to say (maybe too soon to…) the spin has been a nice addition to the serves where I lost power. All in all this is my new daily driver, for doubles. So fun for me. And thanks for the recommendation, I used your code too!
@@Jelly_009 that’s awesome! Glad you are enjoying it
Awesome review Will!
Based on the color of the logo at the throat, it looks like you have their old batch of paddles. Have you been able to try the new batch with updated glue? I heard the stiffness is different and it's slightly heavier with the added glue.
Also have you been able to try the Vatic Flash 16mm? Curious to hear your thoughts on how it compares to the DBD and where you would rank it in your comparison at the end of the video. I was hoping to be able to do a comparison between the DBD and the Flash 16mm but my DBD was an old batch and delaminated on me after a few days 😢 so recently have been playing with the BD
I recently got newer versions of Vatics and Diamonds and plan to hit with them this weekend so can't really give you any thoughts about em right now
Looking forward to your thoughts on the newer versions of the paddles.
I’m looking to upgrade from my Joola Hyperion 16 MM CFS. It’s come down to DBD 16 MM or CRBN 1X what are your thought?! Thanks a bunch.
You really couldn't go wrong with either. I personally would go with the CRBN1x 16 because I do like the longer handle and it will feel closer to the hyperion 16mm. DBD is cheaper though and probably faster in hand battles
DBD 14mm please my dude. Love your videos. Best is the biz. Play better!
Hey Will, Thanks for another great review. I was wondering how either of these compare to the Head Radial Tour CO, which I currently play with. Love the Head for spin and power on serves and returns, but looking to add more control (I need better resets and 3rd shot drops) to my game. Tried the original CRBN 1, but lacked power and with the Legacy I had better resets, control at the net and third shot drops) than the Head, but my return of serve really suffers (doesn't drive as far as the Head and sometimes pops out).
I feel like the 6.zero 14 DBD would be a good in between. Similar shape more spin. A bit more plush. I would say it still doesn’t hit as hard as the Radical Tour
@@PickleballWill Thanks Will!!! 2nd time out with DBD 14 and love it. Very plush, great control and with lead weight enough put away power!
Will do you know if the foam used in the Thermoform process is EVA? Hope either you or Chris does a review on the Icon V2.
No i don't believe the foam injected in the edges are EVA but dont quote me. Chris will probably get the icon2 before me. I probably won't be looking at that until the Warrior V2 is out
I played with a friends Filth, the Sixzero Black Diamond and the Double. My favorite was the Double, but as of writing this they are still out of stock. Is there another paddle similar to the double diamond that I can seek out to test and maybe buy?
Probably the Volair Forza, Vatic Flash 16, Vatic Prism Flash
They come out with them today!!! 5PM CST (6PM EST)
Will how does the double black diamond compare to the new Vatic Flash 16mm which seem to have identical specs.
They’re pretty similar. I’d say the surface of the Diamonds feel much finer to the touch, the piece they use to give the handle an octagonal shape runs up higher on the Vatics. The Diamonds for whatever reason feel ever so slightly more solid and crisp on contact with the ball and in my opinion feel just a bit better made
Unfortunately I have had three of these delam within 2 months so needless to say I’m bowing out of these thermo paddles until the dust settles. To be fair sixzero has been amazing with costumer service and replaced them
That’s great to hear. What are you going to be playing with in the meantime?
@@PickleballWill the cx14E ultimate. I’ve been playing with the gearbox paddles since the original carbon gate. Took me a month to fall in love with them and I hated them at first, I love paddle technology and trying new things but always find myself going back
Still waiting on my cx14 ultimates
Hey Will! I love your videos.
On a 1-10 scale, I am looking for a paddle with 9-10 spin, 8-10 control, and 5-6 power (I can generate my own power when necessary.)
Out of all the paddles you've played with, do any fit that description? Thank you!
Sounds like a Selkirk 003 haha
@@PickleballWill Sweet! Thank you for the feedback. Yes, I have looked and looked and looked at the 003. But the $333 keeps me away. I hope Selkirk comes out with a mass market version of the 003 (that includes all the enhancements from all the project feedback). And for cheaper than $333...
have you used the 14mm version? im thinking if i wanna get the 14 or 16
14mm DBD is my go to just right after black diamond
im thinking if i should get vatic14mm cause the price for the dbd seems higher too.. but also i dont know how to differentiate the 14mms. like the vatic flash
vs the vatic prism flash vs DBD@@PickleballWill
Pls Sixzero for the 2nd gen make a 5.5 handle. Ie Ronbus r1 pulsar which offers 5.25 and 5.5
Hey Will for a INT player (3.5+) would you go 14 or 16mm for the DBD?
I'd go for the 16mm just to be safe
Just bought 14mm DBD - used Will's code.
What are you thoughts on the DBD 14mm?
Haven't tried it yet and got it in the mail today. Gonna give it a go this weekend. Maybe will do a little follow up vid
So you need to use an eraser after every session? How often should you be cleaning the face? And which eraser do you recommend?
I don't eraser after every session but probably could. I just use a block of sandbelt/sandpaper cleaner off amazon haha
@@PickleballWill the sandpaper will scratch the crap out of the face unless it is 2000 grit or more...the rubber block is best to remove ball marks
I just got crbn 1x 16 mm and its not as powerful as I hoped.. is it worth returning and getting a BD if I already have a Legacy pro on the way
Yes if you can’t wait
I just receive one of the new legacy pro paddle and I also find that it is not particularly powerful. Has plenty of power but the way people were talking I was expecting lots of power and pop ups. No pop ups either and can easily change back and forth playing with the legacy and the original crbn 1 16 mm. Wondering if maybe the new legacies don't have as much power as before since the extra glue addition? Legacy plays very nice anyway but I'd take extra power any day. Spin is quite good also but again I'd love more. Being a tennis player for 43 years, I'd love my paddle to feel more like my tennis racket. I feel like these pickleball paddles just handicap up. I need more power and spin!
Thanks Will, super intuitive video as always! Hey, I know you like the Hyperion 14mm, so can you speak to the difference between the Double Black Diamond 14mm vs the 16mm? Any preference?
So i literally got the 14mm DBD today and I plan on taking it out tomorrow for a spin. Looking forward to hitting with it since I think the DBD and CRBNx are the only thermoformed models that come in 14mm
Vatic Pro Flash, too
Dope. Would love if you could let me what you think! I’ve been liking 14mm more lately. I can’t get on board with the Hyperion 14mm because of the funky handle shape, so hopefully the thermoformed paddles have a symmetrical octagon/ bevel instead of a flat one for the 14mm versions
@Pickleball Will imma need that review asap! Lemme know if you can hit that 10 ft Top Spin Arc on serve WITH Pace & keep it in!
Cause I'm looking at that Cherry Blossom 🌸 14mm DBD right now(;
@Pickleball Will Any first impressions on the 14mm yet?
I've been playing the 14mm Hyperion for a long time now. Getting into the 4.5 range I am wondering if I should opt for a 16mm again to gain more control and reset ability (especially playing right side in tournaments as a right hander, where my job is to keep the ball in play) while maybe losing a tiny bit of that maneuverability that I love so much about the 14mm Hyperion. Thanks man
Like that light blue MLP shirt... wish they sold it on the website.
yea i think some of these teams are missing out on some sales. That was the Florida Smash Team shirt they gave me when I played in Minor League for them
hi will w/c one you refer to me I if will use for doubles game? Thanks for your advise :)
Double Black Diamond
@@PickleballWill Thanks how about comparing this DBD to Legacy Pro (still waiting to deliver) & Vatic Pro 7? always watching your review :)
For the double black, what's your thoughts on 14 mm vs the 16 mm? Thanks.
It’s almost the same. You trade a little touch for a little bit more power and vice versa. But they perform very similarly but the feel in the 14 is a little more responsive while the 16mm feels more plush
@@PickleballWill Thank you!
Hey Will - What type of lead tape did you use, and how much per side?
Honestly i couldn't tell you. I find them on Amazon and i typically weigh out lengths to put on my paddle to try and get the paddle closer to 8.5-8.7oz
Can you add a link to the neon green electrical tape you have on the sides?
Should be in the description
Hey been a long time watcher! But between black diamond and legacy pro, which would you recommend for singles?
Probably the Black Diamond
@PickleballWill thank you! Also what would you say is the best for doubles? It can be any paddle. Just purchased black diamond with your code too
Vatic Prism Flash 16 or 14. Either Scorpeus from Joola. Hudef Apex. Gruvn Muvn 13S are the first ones that come to mind
Thank you! Also any paddles for singles that stand out? I ordered the black diamond but my cousin is interested too
Bread n Butter Filth, Vatic v7 pro (any model), CRBNx, power air, Zane ProXR
Thanks for the video. For Black Diamond face being made of fibreglass, would you say this paddle will last much longer than any carbon fibre face paddles?
If you are talking about the grit levels then I’d say it will last in the realm of maybe a bit longer to about the same as the raw Carbon fiber faces. It because what is actually making contact with the ball isn’t the fiberglass or carbon fiber material itself but the epoxy resin coating on top of it so it will probably get similar amounts of wear and tear when compared to it’s raw carbon fiber counterpart
I have the “Power”
Enjoyed the review but the Black Diamond is simply not fibreglass faced. The Website says:
“Composite Textured Surface
The Six Zero Team worked closely with material engineers to develop a proprietary Premium Japanese composite textured surface that provides amazing spin, grip and feel on the ball. Multiple interwoven layers add strength, power and controlled pop.”
It is the cheaper Saphire paddle that has the Epoxy (fibreglass) face. You can feel the difference straight away.
Appreciate the comment 🙏I don't think i ever said its fully fiberglass and said its composite Fiberglass? I've spoken with the owner and he told me the Black Diamond is a composite made primarily of fiberglass he even called it raw fiberglass a few times
Thanks for your reply, I never claimed you said full fibreglass. It’s simple… if you lightly scratch your fingernails on the control and power versions, the effect is identical.
The control version is the Japanese raw carbon face, and as stated on their website. The power version is a Japanese composite. proprietary material, specially developed for this paddle.
By contrast, I did a side-by-side, scratch comparison of my paddle with the cheaper Sapphire version that IS fibreglass faced and it was completely different.
I have seen a few reviewers refer to this as fibreglass faced and it’s simply not. I’m in Australia and I will confirm this with manufacturer myself on Monday as I believe you had a miscommunication with them, as an old surfer raw fibreglass is a material I’m very familiar with. This is not that.
If I’m wrong, I’ll gladly post a correction here
No worries totally understandable and thanks for sharing your knowledge. I was just going off what Dale, the engineer and owner had explained to me. He told me that it is Raw Toray Fiberglass and that it is basically all fiberglass, i'm sure he developed some sort of process to get the paddle face to behave and feel the way that it does but maybe you can confirm with him. I am not an engineer nor do i understand material science so maybe you could shed light on it if you get more info thanks! 🙏
Thanks!
Have you had a chance to look at the new ICON V2? I’d love to hear your thoughts.
Have not yet i'll probably get around to that once Diadem releases their Warrior V2 as well
Will love your content… for selfish reasons would love maybe an ig story if you like this paddles and want to upgrade this is might be for you.. I play a benjohns Franklin 13 bought a CRBN 1x 14 thought it was a good upgrade 🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️and caint use it.. I miss the feel of my Ben John’s I just caint spin the CRBN Help!!!
hahaha time to go back to the franklin 13mm, try something else, or hit courts to drill
How do you think the dbd 16 conpares to vatic flash 16?
Simon! hope all is well in Hong Kong (if you are there) tbh they are very similar and you would probably have a tough time telling them apart. With that being said If i had a choice I would still go with the DBD. They just feel a little bit more solid when striking the ball and just better built but that is not to say the Vatics feel bad
Review is very accurate.
Great video
Did already played with DBD 14mm?, how does it compare with 16mm, what do you prefer?
Yes and I prefer the 14mm just for its maneuverability and a little bit of extra power. They honestly play quite similar its mainly just a feel in the hand. You get a bit more power and responsive feedback from the 14mm DBD paddle where as the 16mm feels a bit more muted when hitting the ball
@@PickleballWill thanks for the feedback
@@PickleballWill is there any noticeable difference in term of control, forgiveness and stability? Thank you!
I’d say the difference is negligible
@@PickleballWill sorry one more question to ask😂! What about the power and pop if compare DBD 14mm or 16mm to Vatic Pro v7 16mm? Thanks
Hey Will, is that led tape on the outer edge of the paddle or just colored tape for aesthetics?
It’s just colored for aesthetics. Link in the description if you interested. Typically put this tape over lead tape to cover it up if I do weight them up
@@PickleballWill Got it, I’ll take a look. Thank you!
So you think the DBD has good control like the legacy?
In short yes, probably better control for the majority of people
What thickness do you recommend
What's the advantages of each
16mm is what I would recommend. 14mm typically have bit more "pop" off the face with less effort and has more responsive feedback in the hand. 16mm typically feels more "plush" and allows you to shape the ball better
Do a Forza Mach 1 review. That paddle is 🔥
Will, what is your favorite paddle right now for doubles in the $200 or less range?
Hey Jeremy, at MSRP of $200 or less my fav paddle for doubles would probably be the 6.zero DBD 14mm, Vatic V7, a11n Zenith Series
@@PickleballWill So you prefer the 14mm over the 16mm?
Yes 14 over the 16
@@PickleballWill thanks for the quick reply. Trying to decide between the two. Can you elaborate why in a quick sentence? Thanks again!
I like the the more responsive feedback and speed
Good Review, I think it might help if you slow your speech just slightly when you explain things. You talk pretty fast and sometimes its hard to understand all the info you are dropping. You and Chris are some of my favorite pickleball youtubers :)
Noted! Thanks for the feedback and support 🙏
@@PickleballWill I didn't think so WIll, I think you are super clear as you are, just my 2 cents.
You're awesome btw!
Most of reviews on you tube are for advanced players, can you do some reviews for newbies to pickle ball pls. Just rec play.
You looking for specifically paddle reviews? i have some ideas in the works for you guys
The double black diamond and vatic flash 16mm seem almost identical - how equivalent are these in real life?
I personally would have a tough time distinguishing between the both of them. Its pretty negligible but I do feel like the the 6.zeros just feel better but this could also just be because my 6.zero paddles come in a few more ounces more than the Vatics Flashs I own and that is probably just manufacture variance
Hey man what hat are you wearing in this video?
My black diamond delaminated after 2 weeks. It now plays terrible. This is a real problem for all the thermofformed paddles. If it deliminstes it is unfair and unsafe. Other than PPA/mlp it can’t be tested in other tournaments. I suspect most will eventually delaminate
hope you get a replacement
The discount code?
PICKLEBALLWILL
Bobby Beams, you handsome son-of-a-b****
It sounds like you're not loving the Legacy any more - is the honeymoon over?
Nah I still love that thing but playing with everything is part of the job haha
Out of stock everywhere still
Looks like a ronbus…..
Andiamo
Made in China :(
Had my Double Black Diamond for about a month or two, and really loving it. Came from Prince Response Pro (Thanks Barrett! ruclips.net/video/PO8mYV2qX1c/видео.html) to the Gearbox CX14 to the PURSUIT EX 6.0... Feels like a good step up from these and really liking the feel and control and honestly power it gives.
(hope that link isn't annoying 😅)
nah you good, Barrett a good dude haha. Glad you been enjoying your paddles
What is the best power paddle in your opinion for playing singles?
6.zero Black Diamond (not to be confused with other double black Diamond). CRBN1x 14. Other honorable mentions: Selkirk Power Air and Ronbus Pulsar R3
@@PickleballWill thanks for replying...I got a Legacy PRO instead of a PROs by accident. It's ok but it has a vibrating kinda feeling. Too narrow for me as I am not a lover of elongated paddles. The Paoer AIR has to much of a wooden feeling to it. I am afraid the Black diamond will do the same. I prefer heavier paddles. Have you put lead tape on the Black Diamond .....Thank you in advance.
P.S Is there a place to demo the racquet? >
@@PickleballWill Sorry my bad. I thought you were talking about the PROKENNEX BLACK when I mentioned wooden feel in my previous comment.
If you want that softer feel for singles and not elongated then CRBN2x 16mm. R1 Pulsar. Legacy Pro S could also be a good option
@@PickleballWill I bought the legacy PRO by mistake....and not the S version. How different is it ?