So over a year ago I bought a qbomb for two 10s. The box is huge and tuned to 35hz (I've checked specs and done my tests and yes it's tuned to 35hz). I uploaded a picture of my setup banging on a facebook bass group and holy shit, I was told I was dumb that my box was way too big and that my subs were clipping blah blah blah. I ran those two 10s in this box for over a year with zero issues and it banged! Now I'm using the same box but with more beefy subs and it still sounds incredible! Moral of the story, don't listen to haters on fb or youtube
On a side jag... One of the smartest guys out there, Ol' Albert Einstein, once said he didn't need to know everything, he just needed to know where to go look for it.
This is one the very best in recent times and most interesting audio related RUclips videos I’ve ever seen. The back story on Hofmann and others was excellent! the side stories from other RUclipsrs… so good!
just recently I've been interested in building my own sub enclosure but don't just want prefab quality and performance. very much appreciate how you make your videos educational and fun to watch. thank you so much for your hard work!
I was going to comment about getting around Hofmann’s Law while the video was playing. You did a great job explaining how easy it is today to achieve extreme sound pressure at low frequencies without a huge box.
Passive radiators can actually be more efficient than ports when using high power. Passive radiators don't compress as much if you're using a small enclosure that needs a long skinny port. You can also tweak the frequency response. You can save a bit of space if you build a box that can get low, but has most of the efficiency from 50-90 Hz. Another way you can save space is by using thinner box walls and regular thin bracing. Baltic birch allows you to build thinner than MDF. I have an enclosure that's over 3 cubic feet and the box walls are 3/8" thick, but it doesn't flex due to bracing. The total material use goes down, therefore space, although it is more tedious to build. L section metal braces are the least space consuming and thick chunks of MDF the most.
I like to use efficient drivers so that I can keep the power requirements reasonable. You can actually make a system that sounds good without needing a ton of power if you choose your driver's properly.
Recently found this out when my cheaper but high sensitivity PA sub beat out my DD715 in SQ matching it in SPL well 80% of it and plays just as low but actually higher this lead me to believe that when starting out in car audio a high efficieny driver is a lot better.
@@DIYAudioGuy pro Audio sub 96DB spl and a local brand called P. Audio basically cheaper Beyma woofers i can do hair tricks and play as low as 19hz in car with it on 600watts im gonna do some more testing soon and put more vids on my channel as only my DD715s vids are up at the moment.
@@erikbritz8095 please do you say hair tricks and low lows only 600w? I just blew my jl 10w1v2. (Was very old and tattered. I got 600w to play with out my gmd9605. So which subs are in your car?
as a child in the 90s I got an installers manual.. the pioneer bass book.. like 1993 or so.. i figured out T&S real quick and was making 2.5-5cuft ported boxes right fast.. but also was making custom external ported behind the seat truck enclosures.. running the port under the seat externally along the floor. my first in a 93 b2200 where the OEM jack was mounted
That alternator upgrade is so worth it though i’m able to keep my 3000w taramps smart 3 at full blast (78v at 1.6ohm/about 3800w give or take) any time any frequency forever as long as the car is running with my 240amp alt and xspower battery along with 0 gauge runs for power and additional grounds. Box is also tuned to 29hz so it hits them lows. Also have a built in volt meter in my car and while cruising voltage is always 13.8-14.5 and at idle only drops to 12.7 on the power hungry frequencies. (Box was designed by me courtesy of your awesome videos!)
I have a 325 HO alt running a Orion HCCA SPLX 3000.1D @ 1ohm, cruising I am able to maintain 14.8-15.2. Drawback is the alternator cost more than what my car is. Im serious😂
Keep up the good work.👍👍Very practical. And that's awesome! 5% of the world might be trying to put 12, 18's in a car our house. Your explaining how to be as efficient as possible. That's what the other 95% is trying to do. Thank you!
I’m soooo glad I found this channel. Soon as get caught up I’ll join for the min amount anyway to help support the channel. I need this information so it’s worth a tip to me.
Great video with good information. For me personally the math is fine and not even complicated at all. The video style is very nice as well. I liked the different shots between your talking!
Watching videos like this one makes me realize i'm missing so many knowledge, that i don't even know what the heck do i seek for in terms of audio performance.
I enjoyed watching this video and learning more about something us DIY speaker guys often quote, but don't really know that much about, Hoffmann's Iron Law. I really like your channel -- the content, and how you do your videos. Informative and entertaining... plus you're brave enough to do the car audio thing... that takes GUTS!!!! -- Tom Zarbo (AKA Zarbo Audio Projects)
First off awesome video I love math equations they tend not to lie. As a kid I had a Cerwin Vega 15 free air dual VC that I installed in a huge homemade sealed enclosure just like buds. It hammered so low so hard. No mid all lows sub 200 hz. I've never been able to duplicate that performance because I got lucky and don't remember the exact dimensions.. My dad helped me and allowed me to jam that thing in my room as a kid and this video brought back those memories. Thanks guy. Oh I forgot to mention rigidity of enclosure. Less flexibility of box = way more output... Cool side note about jumbo btw. Awesome stuff!
Glad you enjoyed it! I has a lot of fun digging into Dr. Hofmann's story. His dad was even more impressive. He was literally the worlds best concert pianist during his time.
I remember when I was 14 I bought 2 KLH 15" floor speakers from best buy and I was so proud of them, they were the first brand new speakers I bought myself brand new lol.
This is so interesting. Technically speaking the game has changed so much. I remember house parties with base bottoms and fans on the amp in the winter months with the windows open in the PJs and your were still sweating.
We had an Econoline van that we used to transport the equipment a real POS. He installed (2) 18 in speakers in the rear cargo doors with a 500w Sherwood amp. That thing was booming even though we didn't know what we were doing. Thanks for the hard work you do for this channel.
best system I ever built was four 10 Kicker comps, each in a 1 cubic foot box mounted in rear of my Dodge Dakota RT extended cab. Kenwood 1100 watt amp, really good bass, but slot ports are the next level, and I am so ready for my new system
From my vast experience in home audio, I would add that the different bass driver sizes effects the overall character of the bass, not just the power. I was surprised to learn when I auditioned three systems for a guest some years ago, with each system using a different bass driver size (8", 10" and 12") that the different bass driver sizes (each in a large vented enclosure) produced different bass performance characteristics. And I would add that the smaller bass driver worked better in a smaller room, and as the room size increased, the larger bass driver worked better: 8" in a 100 sq ft room, 10" for up to 200 sq ft, and 12" for rooms above 200 sq ft.
I had 2 12" SE subwoofers in a sealed 5 cubic² inch box. Wired at 2 ohms, and firing 1200 watts from the trunk into the cab of a 2001 Nissan Altima; that provided some clean low bass. Althoughbeit, the bass was made even better after a SoundStream crossover was installed. The complaint is that I had to sacrifice the entire trunk for a loud stereo system. 50×4 watts Pioneer head unit feeding 400 watt amplifier on high pass which powered 4 3-way Pioneer 6×9 and 2 Kenwood tweeters. I tried to run a 2000 watt SoundStream Amp, but I fried it. Alternator did not supply enough power to it. The 1200 watt Amp used to go into protect a lot in the summer time; but it did the job when it worked.
thanks for a good video, lots of information and I am patiently awaiting my new system, two 10's in slot port box..............curently have one 10 in a powered box
For my solo DDX-12 the box it was in was small and high tuned so it was honestly just loud wouldn't hit low what so ever, so I decided to build a 2.5 cubic foot box tuned down to 35hz and now she slaps all the way down to 28hz with a bandwidth of 28-71hz and I don't think I'll ever go back lol
It's funny how you can get down to the nitty gritty of drivers and enclosures for car applications and try to nail it down like a boss......THEN you go and stick it in a vehicle with its own unique acoustic properties and throw a wrench in the whole thing. Recently took my buddy and I five different box configurations/designs to get it right....all because of the dang vehicle.
great video! i always had a feeling that my jl audio 12w6v2-d4 sub sounded okay with the 1.25cu ft recommended sealed but not great. recently, i was trying to build a 2 cu ft port but since i still stuck at building ported boxes, it ended up being a 2.3 cu ft sealed box. in any case, it sounds sooooo much better loud and low. now i know why thx to your explanation and hofmann
I bought a used JL 10W7 and bought a costum box that was made for 12W7 ported specs. The hole was cut to fit a 10s. I’m so excited to get tyem installed and tuned! It will be loud and low as what you have experienced here too
Good video! In my opinion - vented port sounds gives more deeper and natural bass.I have been making an experiment - 2.5`` speaker in small 0.3L box with 1`` plastic pipe - the length of a pipe was 20``. The speaker (unexpectedly for me ) played sounds below 100Hz - but there was resonances on harmonics in the port pipe and sound wasn`t clear in mid-range band.
Well! I have learned a lot from some of the most esteemed audio engineers and received a lot of answers about speakers and amplifiers that I found one way to make speakers sound so incredibly natural and wish such rich and deep bass that you have to listen to it to believe it! I'm sure that you know about the Cerwin Vega speakers and their reputation for their nice and deep (Not saying that they are the best but they have a solid low frequency even though it's a bit too cracky....if you know what I mean!) I personally made some 6½ woofers sounds even lower in bass and so incredibly softer that everyone who heard them could not believe that the bass of a 6½ was way better than a 10 inches woofer from Cerwin Vega! I did use the same reference in order to build some much bigger speakers and the results were also absolutely amazing! I wish I could have my very own company!
My home theater set up uses two 5 and 1/4-in drivers and a transmission line for the right and left speakers. I lost my subwoofer amplifier due to a lightning strike / power surge and I didn't even notice at the sub it stop playing until I had the house to myself and wanted to crank some base heavy tracks.
Knowing this and your ts parimeters and learning how to use winisd properly will allow u to find that sweet spot and build a box better then the other guy. 😁👍👍
I have a question you may be able to help me with. I'm running after the head-unit is a AudioControl DM-810 Processor, AudioControl Epicenter, Three Alpine Amplifier's ( two are bass amps), aftermarket Bass Knob and a Ill Auto Sound RCA Distribution block. I wanted to know in what order should install everything? Example: epicenter before the DM-810 processor or vice verse? And how should I run my aftermarket bass knob? Thank you very much for your advice.
It's hard to do troubleshooting and gear setup in the RUclips comments. But I think you have too many components in your signal chain. I think the DM810 is all that you need, It has AccuBass and a wired remote.
Hello , I love the videos you have put together on boxes . Whats your stand on the so called 6th order boxes and do u feel they are worth the time to build? Thanks for all the time and knowledge you provide .
@@DIYAudioGuy the 6th order is supposed to be a dual tune port so u can play a larger variety of notes with less restriction and role off but just seems kinda impossible to be true when listening to you explain ho the ported system works. Is it true they work as they say so i can tune one at 23hz and another at 40hz ?
true2 there are tons of them, who knows slightly more money on different brand may improve alot the portable isnt available though, not sure it is better than all ive heard and isnt comparable to desktops either, prob best to expect lower on purchases, it makes 10 points upgrade 'rule' remains true lol, shouldve patented it tbh
I need a little guidance over here. So basically, I have an old Pioneer 307-d2 sub and i'm willing to add it to my home theater. What cubic ft should the box needs to be exact in order to get proper low output in a room?
I'm looking to build a triangular box for 2 8s for my trunk. Space saving in mind. I do want it to be functional. It'll sit tight behind my rear seats. Looking for any info that will help me calculate the box design. Thanks
Hey if a manufacturer recommended a 3 cube box, how much larger would you make the box (generally obviously). 3.5? 4? 6? How much larger do you generally go
So here is something I have been doing for a few years that seems to work well. 10 inch sub in a box with volume for a 12. 12 sub in a box with volume for a 15 and so on. Not sure how well my idea works on paper but it usually sound pretty good to me. My current set up is pretty low budget. 7.2 surround sound. With old school sony tower speakers for my bass. internally braced because of half inch fiber board. Boxes are 2.6 cubic ft with 12 inch woofers on a 200watt rms fisher 2 ch amp. Ports are two inch abs pipe about 12 inches long. Seems to do pretty well. Nothing crazy for a set up but over all it seems to work well.
Question: I’ve always bought prefab boxes but I finally saved enough to buy a ported custom box. I listen to various types of music but mostly rap. Hate to be a dummy but I have no clue what I should tune my box to. Thinking about 37hz-41hz.
It really has more to do with your taste and the sub you are using. I would tune it a bit lower, but that is just my preference. I would rather be low than loud so I tend to shoot for the lower 30's. I did have a 10 tuned to 22HZ, I enjoyed those extreme lows, but I sacrificed to much output/SPL. That is the tradeoff with a ported enclosure, you can tune it low, or loud. You have to pick.
agreed. in isolated frequency testing, i found 30-40Hz to provide the most bang for the buck. while i would love to feel the 25Hz magic, it is simply not realistic with my “budget” system and is way inefficient down there. used a deep crossover to tune as much of that signal out as possible.
You really hit the nail on the head when you said the amp is the cheap part. I just got the jp63 after watching your videos and I spent $1700 on the amp. I had to buy $350 on wiring, all 0guage copper. Then the demand for amperage I have three optima batteries which are $400 each and the lto 6.0 it was another $500 once I had it shipped from Vegas. So ya over $2000 just for the equipment to run that amp. Total cost of amp was $3750. Then the sub was $1600(rs team 18) and birch box with 3” baffle and 2.25” walls was $960. Hope people understand this when they think the amp is inexpensive. I haven’t even upgraded my alternator yet either, luckily it’s a 200amp (f250superdutystock) and keeps up fine. So ya, my one sub system was $7000 and shipping that shit from Vegas to Vancouver island wasn’t cheap. $550 in total shipping for the jp63 and a jp100.4 so probably was over 7k.
is there a calculator online to input the parameters and get the result? You left out the part of how to apply the law to get the most out of the enclosure, or did I miss something?
Years ago a CD magazine told how to build a subwoofer from a 12 inch Eminence sub at the time and it was used in an expensive M and K system. Well, I built that but the sub would bottom out with only 25 watts applied to it. A couple years later found out that the sub worked much better in a 1 cubic ft enclosure instead of the gentler Q design at 3.5 cubic feet. Before I could experiment the subwoofer's foam surround fell apart. I let some years pass and in the meantime built some khorns (mid 80s) and 10 years later bought a car sub off of ebay. It happened to be a MA audio MA121XQ and it had the right parameters for the 3.5 box I had made a decade or more earlier. Tuned to 27hz or so and powered by a 300 watt amp (I just replaced it yesterday with a new Dayton 250 amp with dsp) and it doesn't bottom out and just works. Low cost too. It has 10mm xmax which seems plenty.
I was wondering if you could please tell me what type of passive radio that is at the 3 minute mark of your video? It doesn't look like a SLAPS radiator. It's basically the only other one that I've seen built well like the one you pictured.
Great. At 3.05 you spoke about the great passive radiator. At 0.48 you flipped around the MK Boombox. I would like to build the MK Boombox but I find it a bit to big/deep. Can’t you redesign it with two passive radiators instead for the ports? Us the same kit, but only cut and remodel the box, that are included in the kit, so we beginners DIY have something to do during winter. Keep up the great work.
A lot of people seem to build their own (or modify the kit). As far as making the kit smaller/using a PR you can just model in WinISD. You will need to relocate the amp, it takes up the full depth of the kit.
12:00 Mannnn I remember the PA Electrovoice ELM12’s some were using in their vehicles. I had two recently in 2006 in a jeep Cherokee and them EV’s GOT HELLA LOUD when it was around 100-400hz which is unheard of any 12” car subwoofer being able to do. I had a 12” subwoofer as well for the lows so I had nice coverage on the low end from 36hz-400hz.
Interesting video. I've been trying to figure out some of this subwoofer stuff, and not sure size always is the key feature for subwoofers. I consistently see 10" and 12" subs that rarely go below 35 Hz. Yet I have an 8" JBL sub rated at 18 Hz - 800 Hz (which I'm sure to many that 900 Hz is on the high end of a sub). The box came with the sub, and though I have not tested it, I can say yes it does play lower notes than to subs that are in the 35 - 40 Hz range (I do have exceptional hearing, and proof humans can hear below 20 Hz and above 20 Khz. But I have terrible eyesight, and think one sense made up for another. I'm just glad it was my ears instead of sense of smell. lol). But I too always thought a larger subwoofer driver was needed to hit down to the 20 Hz mark, like a 15" or larger. So how are smaller subs able to achieve this ? Please, I seriously would like to know as I am somewhat confused maybe? And I am having a hard time locating anything about a driver's ability to reach to low end Hertz like a subwoofer. It seems to me you would always want a sub to go down to 20 Hertz otherwise you are cheating yourself. And one reason I ended up with the JBL I do as it is hard to find subwoofers that reach that low of Hertz. Which really surprised me.
I like my bass low, but for the enclosure that lives under my desk, I don't need it loud. So I tune for extended response and I have flat response down to about 15Hz. I don't hear that, I feel it. It does result in a port that chuffs, but I don't hear that because the desk is in the way. After that I use Sonarworks for final integration. The result is fine.
I can make a subwoofer speaker box for a 4-inch woofer based on two subwoofer boxes, one 6" and one 4-inch, mixing the sizes, averaging the two sizes, putting in a longer port, and making a "5-inch subwoofer box" but using the 4-inch speaker? I'm looking for lower bass than the two subwoofers I have, merging the box sizes maybe can make that happen? I don't want it to be really loud, I just want to hear better low-end bass, if that's even possible with that little of a driver... (i think between 45 Hz they die, I don't know if this build can play low to 35hz...) I don't have the specs for the woofer...
Unfortunately the formula does not give a full picture of how a subwoofer will perform, only the pass band efficiency. That is why I recommend this: ruclips.net/video/yZNeYBYGRKk/видео.html
@@DIYAudioGuy can you please make a video about how to make and tune an aeroport ? If i'm not mistaking you made one for the L port but not for a "round" one.
Can u make me a video how to optimize my bass performance in my 2005 4Runner? I have 2 ct 8’s - that’s it - I wanna start with a sweet box- u have any ideas?
320amp otternator.... lol. Seriously though - nice video. Power is so cheap and drivers so specialized these days that we are spoiled with tiny enclosures. I remember dropping Rockford SP-412s into 3cuft each and it was a compromise!
Funny, I'm using classic 2" A/R mids in my car audio system. They were new old-stock on P-Express, and no longer available. They screw right into Dayton indoor/outdoor speaker pods I've mounted on my dash, mated to Dayton 1x4" ribbon tweeters. I'd have bought more if I'd know how useful they are.
@@DIYAudioGuy I haven't found a better 2" mid on P-E, at least for RMS & Sensitivity. The sound isn't objectively better than my home system, but using pods eliminates door-resonance altogether, and dash-mounting makes for better stereo imaging than I'd previously though possible. I put a 12" Dayton UM sub box on the passenger floor! Upfront, I can low pass the sub at 200hz w/o imaging problems, so the pods never get any cone-shredding bass.
@@DIYAudioGuy At one time, I stressed over the idea of putting a subwoofer in the passenger foot well of my WORK TRUCK that NOBODY every rides in, then I came to my senses about priorities. Amazingly, Goldwood makes a wedge shaped 1.25ft^3 box that barely just fits almost exactly into the available space, like the built it that way on purpose.
Agreed and second this information but… weirdest thing is going on in my car .. I had 2 12 inch mtx woofers rated at a end of 1000w in a ported box.. playing with different things in my car I hooked up 2 10 inch Rockfords with a rms of 600w.. using the same 500w mtx amp in both .. both are at a 2ohm load .. I heard a huge difference between the 2 setups but not in the way I expected.. my 10 inch rockfords are noticeably louder.. like maybe 4-6db and that confused me to my core and shook everything I thought I knew about car audio.. below 28hz the 12s are louder but from about 30-50hz the 10s thumb like crazy.. they have similar Xmax but the 12s have more cone area and are ported .. so what could explain this occurrence? Cabin gain? It has confused me .. I just thought it was funny you made the comment about “10s bump louder then 12s” and generally it’s true .. the 10s that bump louder have more xmax and wattage etc.. so that’s why they’re louder . Just wondered if anyone could explain what I’m seeing or better yet, hearing in my car..
Does polyfill increase or decrease the internal box volume? I watched some videos on youtube and it's very confusing. Some says that it will just remove some distortion and others said it will make the tuning lower.
This is the best video on the topic. ruclips.net/video/INM0g1JeMLY/видео.html I am not aware of any videos that prove how/if poly fill works in a ported enclosure.
their are many who agree that polyfill (in the correct proportion) has a remarkable benefit. however, it seems none of them will agree why or how. i simply did the best i could with the recommended specs for my driver and it turned out well good enough for me. i must have a life because while i do want to try polyfill, i havent.
I had a smaller box with 12s and I put some pink insulation to see what would happen. It did make a difference but not much, it hit slightly lower and louder.
Yes and no. Smaller subs require less airspace than larger subs, holding everything else constant. So yes a box for a pair of 6.5's will be smaller than a box for a pair of 10's. But, you are still constrained by Hoffman's iron law.
Learn more about subwoofer design here: ruclips.net/p/PL3Aot9dMXzXZ21MXAzvirExu0sfsWWSHT
Well explained. I'm a technical reading and learning geek so this stuff is right up my alley!
Thank you for another great video Brother!
@@BabyCharlotteschannel I always prefer the more technical stuff.
Thanks.
I use pa driver's as subs on class a b amps on a factory alt🤫
@@unbanmy360 Those PA drivers are very efficient.
So over a year ago I bought a qbomb for two 10s. The box is huge and tuned to 35hz (I've checked specs and done my tests and yes it's tuned to 35hz). I uploaded a picture of my setup banging on a facebook bass group and holy shit, I was told I was dumb that my box was way too big and that my subs were clipping blah blah blah. I ran those two 10s in this box for over a year with zero issues and it banged! Now I'm using the same box but with more beefy subs and it still sounds incredible! Moral of the story, don't listen to haters on fb or youtube
Absolutely! I bought this box with the intention of trashing it. I was wrong.
"Why is there so much math?"
Because math is how you understand and predict the behavior of the physical world.
That's a great way to put it!
After all, math is the only pure science followed by chemistry and biology.
@@kevinwheeler5595 What about Physics
On a side jag...
One of the smartest guys out there, Ol' Albert Einstein, once said he didn't need to know everything, he just needed to know where to go look for it.
Absolutely, save your brain power for the important stuff.
This is one the very best in recent times and most interesting audio related RUclips videos I’ve ever seen. The back story on Hofmann and others was excellent! the side stories from other RUclipsrs… so good!
Thanks!
just recently I've been interested in building my own sub enclosure but don't just want prefab quality and performance. very much appreciate how you make your videos educational and fun to watch. thank you so much for your hard work!
Thanks for watching.
Fantastic video! My Acoustic Research 12" powered sub I've had for around 20 years means so much more to me now after learning about Hofmann. Thanks!!
As best I can tell KLH is the only one of the three that still making hi-fi speakers. So you might just have yourself a rare gem right there!
I'm building a full sound system with my buddies, and we just picked up two Eminence NSW6021-6. This video will definitely help us!!
Hofmann was obviously an intellectual GIANT!!!!!!!! Very impressive and informative video!!!
I was going to comment about getting around Hofmann’s Law while the video was playing.
You did a great job explaining how easy it is today to achieve extreme sound pressure at low frequencies without a huge box.
Passive radiators can actually be more efficient than ports when using high power. Passive radiators don't compress as much if you're using a small enclosure that needs a long skinny port. You can also tweak the frequency response. You can save a bit of space if you build a box that can get low, but has most of the efficiency from 50-90 Hz. Another way you can save space is by using thinner box walls and regular thin bracing. Baltic birch allows you to build thinner than MDF. I have an enclosure that's over 3 cubic feet and the box walls are 3/8" thick, but it doesn't flex due to bracing. The total material use goes down, therefore space, although it is more tedious to build. L section metal braces are the least space consuming and thick chunks of MDF the most.
Great video! Keep up the fantastic work, love watching your content.
I'll need to bring you in for a guest spot sometime!
This is an excellent video Justin well worth anyones time kudos.
Thanks man! It was a ton of fun to make!
I like to use efficient drivers so that I can keep the power requirements reasonable. You can actually make a system that sounds good without needing a ton of power if you choose your driver's properly.
That's a smart strategy.
Recently found this out when my cheaper but high sensitivity PA sub beat out my DD715 in SQ matching it in SPL well 80% of it and plays just as low but actually higher this lead me to believe that when starting out in car audio a high efficieny driver is a lot better.
@@erikbritz8095 What is the PA sub?
@@DIYAudioGuy pro Audio sub 96DB spl and a local brand called P. Audio basically cheaper Beyma woofers i can do hair tricks and play as low as 19hz in car with it on 600watts im gonna do some more testing soon and put more vids on my channel as only my DD715s vids are up at the moment.
@@erikbritz8095 please do you say hair tricks and low lows only 600w? I just blew my jl 10w1v2. (Was very old and tattered. I got 600w to play with out my gmd9605. So which subs are in your car?
as a child in the 90s I got an installers manual.. the pioneer bass book.. like 1993 or so.. i figured out T&S real quick and was making 2.5-5cuft ported boxes right fast.. but also was making custom external ported behind the seat truck enclosures.. running the port under the seat externally along the floor. my first in a 93 b2200 where the OEM jack was mounted
Love your passion and enthusiasm for science
There are so many cool things in the world! Look up Hofmann's father. Amazing man.
That alternator upgrade is so worth it though i’m able to keep my 3000w taramps smart 3 at full blast (78v at 1.6ohm/about 3800w give or take) any time any frequency forever as long as the car is running with my 240amp alt and xspower battery along with 0 gauge runs for power and additional grounds. Box is also tuned to 29hz so it hits them lows. Also have a built in volt meter in my car and while cruising voltage is always 13.8-14.5 and at idle only drops to 12.7 on the power hungry frequencies. (Box was designed by me courtesy of your awesome videos!)
For that kind of power you definitely need the alternator.
I have a 325 HO alt running a Orion HCCA SPLX 3000.1D @ 1ohm, cruising I am able to maintain 14.8-15.2. Drawback is the alternator cost more than what my car is. Im serious😂
Great info! I appreciate that you provide the why behind a method so we can apply it to our own ideas. Thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
Keep up the good work.👍👍Very practical. And that's awesome! 5% of the world might be trying to put 12, 18's in a car our house. Your explaining how to be as efficient as possible. That's what the other 95% is trying to do. Thank you!
That is what I'm shooting for!
I’m soooo glad I found this channel. Soon as get caught up I’ll join for the min amount anyway to help support the channel. I need this information so it’s worth a tip to me.
Thanks!
Great video with good information. For me personally the math is fine and not even complicated at all. The video style is very nice as well. I liked the different shots between your talking!
Most people pay to much attention to watts and overlook efficiency.
Very good stuff, i used to work on car audio back in the 90s. Im glad i only build home stuff now.
Great video brotha. Keep dropping the knowledge on us we appreciate it.
Thanks!
Wow! This video is less than 12 mins but helped me a lot, thanks.
Watching videos like this one makes me realize i'm missing so many knowledge, that i don't even know what the heck do i seek for in terms of audio performance.
I enjoyed watching this video and learning more about something us DIY speaker guys often quote, but don't really know that much about, Hoffmann's Iron Law. I really like your channel -- the content, and how you do your videos. Informative and entertaining... plus you're brave enough to do the car audio thing... that takes GUTS!!!! -- Tom Zarbo (AKA Zarbo Audio Projects)
Brave, or stupid? I will let you know when I found out!
Great job on the editing!! Wow! Great content
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it.
First off awesome video I love math equations they tend not to lie. As a kid I had a Cerwin Vega 15 free air dual VC that I installed in a huge homemade sealed enclosure just like buds. It hammered so low so hard. No mid all lows sub 200 hz. I've never been able to duplicate that performance because I got lucky and don't remember the exact dimensions.. My dad helped me and allowed me to jam that thing in my room as a kid and this video brought back those memories. Thanks guy. Oh I forgot to mention rigidity of enclosure. Less flexibility of box = way more output... Cool side note about jumbo btw. Awesome stuff!
That's awesome!
Very well-done video. I have a lot of time explaining this to people. Now I can just point them to your video.
Please share it with them!
@@DIYAudioGuy I'll be discussing speakers in a future video, and I'll link to your video when I do.
Great job bringing the good energy, and great information.🔥💯
Glad you enjoyed it! I has a lot of fun digging into Dr. Hofmann's story. His dad was even more impressive. He was literally the worlds best concert pianist during his time.
I will be looking into him also. Thank you!
This is a wonderful video. Good job!!
Thank you!
I know the law for many years. But I don't know the formula. Thanks for sharing Adudo guy !!!! 😀😀😀👍👍👍
It was a fun video to make, I'm glad you enjoyed it.
Thank you sir. I watched it twice!!
Awesome! Thanks for watching..
I remember when I was 14 I bought 2 KLH 15" floor speakers from best buy and I was so proud of them, they were the first brand new speakers I bought myself brand new lol.
I still have my floor standing speakers from Radio Shack, purchased in 1988.
Gosh I love this video!
This is so interesting. Technically speaking the game has changed so much. I remember house parties with base bottoms and fans on the amp in the winter months with the windows open in the PJs and your were still sweating.
Parties tend to get hot.
We had an Econoline van that we used to transport the equipment a real POS. He installed (2) 18 in speakers in the rear cargo doors with a 500w Sherwood amp. That thing was booming even though we didn't know what we were doing. Thanks for the hard work you do for this channel.
best system I ever built was four 10 Kicker comps, each in a 1 cubic foot box mounted in rear of my Dodge Dakota RT extended cab. Kenwood 1100 watt amp, really good bass, but slot ports are the next level, and I am so ready for my new system
From my vast experience in home audio, I would add that the different bass driver sizes effects the overall character of the bass, not just the power. I was surprised to learn when I auditioned three systems for a guest some years ago, with each system using a different bass driver size (8", 10" and 12") that the different bass driver sizes (each in a large vented enclosure) produced different bass performance characteristics. And I would add that the smaller bass driver worked better in a smaller room, and as the room size increased, the larger bass driver worked better: 8" in a 100 sq ft room, 10" for up to 200 sq ft, and 12" for rooms above 200 sq ft.
Absolutely!
15, 18, 21, up to 33 being biggest home theater sub.
Love your channel keep up the good work
Thanks!
I had 2 12" SE subwoofers in a sealed 5 cubic² inch box. Wired at 2 ohms, and firing 1200 watts from the trunk into the cab of a 2001 Nissan Altima; that provided some clean low bass.
Althoughbeit, the bass was made even better after a SoundStream crossover was installed.
The complaint is that I had to sacrifice the entire trunk for a loud stereo system.
50×4 watts Pioneer head unit feeding 400 watt amplifier on high pass which powered 4 3-way Pioneer 6×9 and 2 Kenwood tweeters.
I tried to run a 2000 watt SoundStream Amp, but I fried it. Alternator did not supply enough power to it.
The 1200 watt Amp used to go into protect a lot in the summer time; but it did the job when it worked.
Living loud with Andy love that dude he's a cool dude
I think he has a great on-screen presence. He will have 20k subs here on YT by this time next year.
Great informative video!
Hofmann was an interesting guy!
Appreciate the shout out to hoffman sr. Titan of the keyboard - one of the greatest of all time
He was a legend!
thanks for a good video, lots of information and I am patiently awaiting my new system, two 10's in slot port box..............curently have one 10 in a powered box
Awesome video and great history! Knew about the law but not about the person nor history. Nicely done
Thanks! I had a lot of fun putting this video together.
Cool video, learned something new.
Awesome, thanks.
Hofmann's life sounds like my upbringing. Frequency means more than EVERYONE ELSE can fathom.
Yea, his dad was more interesting than he was. Apparently he was literately the best concert pianist on the planet during his day.
For my solo DDX-12 the box it was in was small and high tuned so it was honestly just loud wouldn't hit low what so ever, so I decided to build a 2.5 cubic foot box tuned down to 35hz and now she slaps all the way down to 28hz with a bandwidth of 28-71hz and I don't think I'll ever go back lol
Good history lesson. Thanks
Glad you enjoyed it
Good content sir!
Glad you liked it
Good info 👍
Thanks 👍
It's funny how you can get down to the nitty gritty of drivers and enclosures for car applications and try to nail it down like a boss......THEN you go and stick it in a vehicle with its own unique acoustic properties and throw a wrench in the whole thing. Recently took my buddy and I five different box configurations/designs to get it right....all because of the dang vehicle.
Absolutely! All of the formulas and software assume you are playing in an infinity large room.
Your a beast man. What a fantastic video.
Thanks
this is critical information!! thank you!!!
As long as we don't achieve critical mass! The results would be explosive.
@@DIYAudioGuy ⚙️🙂
Man that 15” flat down to 21hz would be sooooo coool and i bet so many people wouldn’t mind the size trade to have one of those in the Ht!
great video! i always had a feeling that my jl audio 12w6v2-d4 sub sounded okay with the 1.25cu ft recommended sealed but not great. recently, i was trying to build a 2 cu ft port but since i still stuck at building ported boxes, it ended up being a 2.3 cu ft sealed box. in any case, it sounds sooooo much better loud and low. now i know why thx to your explanation and hofmann
It takes space to make bass.
I bought a used JL 10W7 and bought a costum box that was made for 12W7 ported specs. The hole was cut to fit a 10s. I’m so excited to get tyem installed and tuned! It will be loud and low as what you have experienced here too
What an amazing video
Thanks!
Good video! In my opinion - vented port sounds gives more deeper and natural bass.I have been making an experiment - 2.5`` speaker in small 0.3L box with 1`` plastic pipe - the length of a pipe was 20``. The speaker (unexpectedly for me ) played sounds below 100Hz - but there was resonances on harmonics in the port pipe and sound wasn`t clear in mid-range band.
The knowledge…right there!…👍💯🖖🙏
Hofmann was a bright fellow.
justin dropin" that tuesday knowledge!!
Partying on a Tuesday!
Well! I have learned a lot from some of the most esteemed audio engineers and received a lot of answers about speakers and amplifiers that I found one way to make speakers sound so incredibly natural and wish such rich and deep bass that you have to listen to it to believe it! I'm sure that you know about the Cerwin Vega speakers and their reputation for their nice and deep (Not saying that they are the best but they have a solid low frequency even though it's a bit too cracky....if you know what I mean!) I personally made some 6½ woofers sounds even lower in bass and so incredibly softer that everyone who heard them could not believe that the bass of a 6½ was way better than a 10 inches woofer from Cerwin Vega! I did use the same reference in order to build some much bigger speakers and the results were also absolutely amazing! I wish I could have my very own company!
My home theater set up uses two 5 and 1/4-in drivers and a transmission line for the right and left speakers. I lost my subwoofer amplifier due to a lightning strike / power surge and I didn't even notice at the sub it stop playing until I had the house to myself and wanted to crank some base heavy tracks.
Knowing this and your ts parimeters and learning how to use winisd properly will allow u to find that sweet spot and build a box better then the other guy. 😁👍👍
That is the goal.
I have a question you may be able to help me with. I'm running after the head-unit is a AudioControl DM-810 Processor, AudioControl Epicenter, Three Alpine Amplifier's ( two are bass amps), aftermarket Bass Knob and a Ill Auto Sound RCA Distribution block. I wanted to know in what order should install everything? Example: epicenter before the DM-810 processor or vice verse? And how should I run my aftermarket bass knob? Thank you very much for your advice.
It's hard to do troubleshooting and gear setup in the RUclips comments. But I think you have too many components in your signal chain.
I think the DM810 is all that you need, It has AccuBass and a wired remote.
Hello , I love the videos you have put together on boxes . Whats your stand on the so called 6th order boxes and do u feel they are worth the time to build? Thanks for all the time and knowledge you provide .
Unless you are doing SPL competitions it is hard to beat a ported enclosure.
@@DIYAudioGuy the 6th order is supposed to be a dual tune port so u can play a larger variety of notes with less restriction and role off but just seems kinda impossible to be true when listening to you explain ho the ported system works. Is it true they work as they say so i can tune one at 23hz and another at 40hz ?
Henry Kloss was actually the driving force behind AR, KLH (KLossHenry), Advent, and Cambridge Audio.
Hofmann was the Man!
BTW, I do the same - always design enclosures bigger than the manufacturer's spec's and get better results.
true2 there are tons of them, who knows slightly more money on different brand may improve alot
the portable isnt available though, not sure it is better than all ive heard and isnt comparable to desktops either, prob best to expect lower on purchases, it makes 10 points upgrade 'rule' remains true lol, shouldve patented it tbh
This guy looks just like my doctor whom I have to see tomorrow morning. Hopefully I get some good news from the visit.
Good luck!
I need a little guidance over here. So basically, I have an old Pioneer 307-d2 sub and i'm willing to add it to my home theater. What cubic ft should the box needs to be exact in order to get proper low output in a room?
diysubwoofer.blogspot.com/2021/05/custom-subwoofer-enclosure-designs.html
I'm looking to build a triangular box for 2 8s for my trunk. Space saving in mind. I do want it to be functional. It'll sit tight behind my rear seats. Looking for any info that will help me calculate the box design. Thanks
ruclips.net/video/yZNeYBYGRKk/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/NjolI-OEHE8/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/-s78YDDwB0I/видео.html
Hey if a manufacturer recommended a 3 cube box, how much larger would you make the box (generally obviously). 3.5? 4? 6? How much larger do you generally go
I plug the TS parameters into Win ISD and let the software figure it out. ruclips.net/video/yZNeYBYGRKk/видео.html
Thank car audio gods for Hofmann!!
He was a giant.
So here is something I have been doing for a few years that seems to work well. 10 inch sub in a box with volume for a 12. 12 sub in a box with volume for a 15 and so on. Not sure how well my idea works on paper but it usually sound pretty good to me. My current set up is pretty low budget. 7.2 surround sound. With old school sony tower speakers for my bass. internally braced because of half inch fiber board. Boxes are 2.6 cubic ft with 12 inch woofers on a 200watt rms fisher 2 ch amp. Ports are two inch abs pipe about 12 inches long. Seems to do pretty well. Nothing crazy for a set up but over all it seems to work well.
That is not a bad rule of thumb.
Question: I’ve always bought prefab boxes but I finally saved enough to buy a ported custom box. I listen to various types of music but mostly rap. Hate to be a dummy but I have no clue what I should tune my box to. Thinking about 37hz-41hz.
It really has more to do with your taste and the sub you are using. I would tune it a bit lower, but that is just my preference. I would rather be low than loud so I tend to shoot for the lower 30's. I did have a 10 tuned to 22HZ, I enjoyed those extreme lows, but I sacrificed to much output/SPL. That is the tradeoff with a ported enclosure, you can tune it low, or loud. You have to pick.
agreed. in isolated frequency testing, i found 30-40Hz to provide the most bang for the buck. while i would love to feel the 25Hz magic, it is simply not realistic with my “budget” system and is way inefficient down there. used a deep crossover to tune as much of that signal out as possible.
You really hit the nail on the head when you said the amp is the cheap part. I just got the jp63 after watching your videos and I spent $1700 on the amp. I had to buy $350 on wiring, all 0guage copper. Then the demand for amperage I have three optima batteries which are $400 each and the lto 6.0 it was another $500 once I had it shipped from Vegas. So ya over $2000 just for the equipment to run that amp. Total cost of amp was $3750. Then the sub was $1600(rs team 18) and birch box with 3” baffle and 2.25” walls was $960. Hope people understand this when they think the amp is inexpensive. I haven’t even upgraded my alternator yet either, luckily it’s a 200amp (f250superdutystock) and keeps up fine. So ya, my one sub system was $7000 and shipping that shit from Vegas to Vancouver island wasn’t cheap. $550 in total shipping for the jp63 and a jp100.4 so probably was over 7k.
Amps are cheap, but power is not.
My car used to hit 146db with two 12's sealed box! So don't be afraid to build a sealed box it'll sound better too over a ported box!
@DIY AUDIO GUY any recommendations for a Sundown audio ZV5 15 enclosure? Looking for SPL mainly
You looking to build your own, or are you looking to buy one?
I wanna have a custom one built but I wanna make the right choice for the sub. Basically only listen to rap.
DIY, you have any plans for 2 12 type R Alpines? I need a new box, please
I do not, but I can draw some up. bit.ly/3IwIJLb
is there a calculator online to input the parameters and get the result? You left out the part of how to apply the law to get the most out of the enclosure, or did I miss something?
Years ago a CD magazine told how to build a subwoofer from a 12 inch Eminence sub at the time and it was used in an expensive M and K system. Well, I built that but the sub would bottom out with only 25 watts applied to it. A couple years later found out that the sub worked much better in a 1 cubic ft enclosure instead of the gentler Q design at 3.5 cubic feet. Before I could experiment the subwoofer's foam surround fell apart. I let some years pass and in the meantime built some khorns (mid 80s) and 10 years later bought a car sub off of ebay. It happened to be a MA audio MA121XQ and it had the right parameters for the 3.5 box I had made a decade or more earlier. Tuned to 27hz or so and powered by a 300 watt amp (I just replaced it yesterday with a new Dayton 250 amp with dsp) and it doesn't bottom out and just works. Low cost too. It has 10mm xmax which seems plenty.
I was wondering if you could please tell me what type of passive radio that is at the 3 minute mark of your video? It doesn't look like a SLAPS radiator. It's basically the only other one that I've seen built well like the one you pictured.
parts-express.sjv.io/0JN2QV
Does polyfill make the box act larger? Or does it just help with standing waves
ruclips.net/video/ZQ0WvSKfDVY/видео.html
Great. At 3.05 you spoke about the great passive radiator. At 0.48 you flipped around the MK Boombox. I would like to build the MK Boombox but I find it a bit to big/deep. Can’t you redesign it with two passive radiators instead for the ports? Us the same kit, but only cut and remodel the box, that are included in the kit, so we beginners DIY have something to do during winter. Keep up the great work.
A lot of people seem to build their own (or modify the kit). As far as making the kit smaller/using a PR you can just model in WinISD. You will need to relocate the amp, it takes up the full depth of the kit.
@@DIYAudioGuy Thanks. I need to learn how to use WinISD. So handy you just recently made a tutorial! Keep up the good work.
@@rikardekvall3433 There is a bit of a learning curve, but it is a great tool and the price is right.
youre going to blow up man im so hyped, you make such quality videos there is no way youll spin tires.
I am just hyped to be here!
@@DIYAudioGuy thats why youre succeeding, in it because you love it not because you want it.
12:00 Mannnn I remember the PA Electrovoice ELM12’s some were using in their vehicles. I had two recently in 2006 in a jeep Cherokee and them EV’s GOT HELLA LOUD when it was around 100-400hz which is unheard of any 12” car subwoofer being able to do. I had a 12” subwoofer as well for the lows so I had nice coverage on the low end from 36hz-400hz.
Yea, a lot of the early car subwoofers were EV's or Eminence PA drivers.
What software do you Use to design and tune your subwoofer enclosures.
ruclips.net/video/yZNeYBYGRKk/видео.html
Interesting video. I've been trying to figure out some of this subwoofer stuff, and not sure size always is the key feature for subwoofers. I consistently see 10" and 12" subs that rarely go below 35 Hz. Yet I have an 8" JBL sub rated at 18 Hz - 800 Hz (which I'm sure to many that 900 Hz is on the high end of a sub). The box came with the sub, and though I have not tested it, I can say yes it does play lower notes than to subs that are in the 35 - 40 Hz range (I do have exceptional hearing, and proof humans can hear below 20 Hz and above 20 Khz. But I have terrible eyesight, and think one sense made up for another. I'm just glad it was my ears instead of sense of smell. lol). But I too always thought a larger subwoofer driver was needed to hit down to the 20 Hz mark, like a 15" or larger. So how are smaller subs able to achieve this ? Please, I seriously would like to know as I am somewhat confused maybe? And I am having a hard time locating anything about a driver's ability to reach to low end Hertz like a subwoofer. It seems to me you would always want a sub to go down to 20 Hertz otherwise you are cheating yourself. And one reason I ended up with the JBL I do as it is hard to find subwoofers that reach that low of Hertz. Which really surprised me.
It is all about the interaction between the enclosure and the drier.
If they go lower they go less loud (hofmann law)
Used to run a professional audio company, designing building and installing sound systems in various live pa venues... I'm learning stuff here, LOL...
You should start posting videos yourself! I bet I can learn a ton from you.
I'd like to get a quad 8 enclosure design from you. Ampere Audio rve-2.5 8s.
diysubwoofer.blogspot.com/2021/05/custom-subwoofer-enclosure-designs.html
I like my bass low, but for the enclosure that lives under my desk, I don't need it loud. So I tune for extended response and I have flat response down to about 15Hz. I don't hear that, I feel it. It does result in a port that chuffs, but I don't hear that because the desk is in the way. After that I use Sonarworks for final integration. The result is fine.
I can make a subwoofer speaker box for a 4-inch woofer based on two subwoofer boxes, one 6" and one 4-inch, mixing the sizes, averaging the two sizes, putting in a longer port, and making a "5-inch subwoofer box" but using the 4-inch speaker?
I'm looking for lower bass than the two subwoofers I have, merging the box sizes maybe can make that happen? I don't want it to be really loud, I just want to hear better low-end bass, if that's even possible with that little of a driver... (i think between 45 Hz they die, I don't know if this build can play low to 35hz...) I don't have the specs for the woofer...
I would just model it in WinISD. ruclips.net/video/yZNeYBYGRKk/видео.html
Hie ...please can you do a video of examples of how to calculate different size boxes using this formula...
Unfortunately the formula does not give a full picture of how a subwoofer will perform, only the pass band efficiency. That is why I recommend this: ruclips.net/video/yZNeYBYGRKk/видео.html
@@DIYAudioGuy ok thank you
Really nice info , can you please tell , when a box it's to big ?
When it's so big that the woofer will exceed its X-Max under heavy power.
@@DIYAudioGuy can you please make a video about how to make and tune an aeroport ? If i'm not mistaking you made one for the L port but not for a "round" one.
What is the length and size of port do I need for this? SKAR ZVX 12-2. 3.0 CU BOX. THANKS
I am not taking on enclosure design clients at the moment.
Can u make me a video how to optimize my bass performance in my 2005 4Runner? I have 2 ct 8’s - that’s it - I wanna start with a sweet box- u have any ideas?
Since you have the room I would start with bigger subwoofers.
320amp otternator.... lol.
Seriously though - nice video. Power is so cheap and drivers so specialized these days that we are spoiled with tiny enclosures. I remember dropping Rockford SP-412s into 3cuft each and it was a compromise!
For sure! We live in interesting times!
Was that a build your own bluetooth speaker kit from parts Express? How does that thing actually sound?
The larger kits with PR's are great. The smaller kit just does not have enough bass.
Funny, I'm using classic 2" A/R mids in my car audio system. They were new old-stock on P-Express, and no longer available. They screw right into Dayton indoor/outdoor speaker pods I've mounted on my dash, mated to Dayton 1x4" ribbon tweeters. I'd have bought more if I'd know how useful they are.
Sweet! I bet those sound great.
@@DIYAudioGuy I haven't found a better 2" mid on P-E, at least for RMS & Sensitivity. The sound isn't objectively better than my home system, but using pods eliminates door-resonance altogether, and dash-mounting makes for better stereo imaging than I'd previously though possible. I put a 12" Dayton UM sub box on the passenger floor! Upfront, I can low pass the sub at 200hz w/o imaging problems, so the pods never get any cone-shredding bass.
@@xxxYYZxxx in a perfect world I would build a system with subwoofers up front in both foot wells.
@@DIYAudioGuy At one time, I stressed over the idea of putting a subwoofer in the passenger foot well of my WORK TRUCK that NOBODY every rides in, then I came to my senses about priorities. Amazingly, Goldwood makes a wedge shaped 1.25ft^3 box that barely just fits almost exactly into the available space, like the built it that way on purpose.
Agreed and second this information but… weirdest thing is going on in my car .. I had 2 12 inch mtx woofers rated at a end of 1000w in a ported box.. playing with different things in my car I hooked up 2 10 inch Rockfords with a rms of 600w.. using the same 500w mtx amp in both .. both are at a 2ohm load .. I heard a huge difference between the 2 setups but not in the way I expected.. my 10 inch rockfords are noticeably louder.. like maybe 4-6db and that confused me to my core and shook everything I thought I knew about car audio.. below 28hz the 12s are louder but from about 30-50hz the 10s thumb like crazy.. they have similar Xmax but the 12s have more cone area and are ported .. so what could explain this occurrence? Cabin gain? It has confused me .. I just thought it was funny you made the comment about “10s bump louder then 12s” and generally it’s true .. the 10s that bump louder have more xmax and wattage etc.. so that’s why they’re louder . Just wondered if anyone could explain what I’m seeing or better yet, hearing in my car..
It could be differences in the enclosure. The Rockford fosgate could be more efficient, it could be lots of things.
Does polyfill increase or decrease the internal box volume? I watched some videos on youtube and it's very confusing. Some says that it will just remove some distortion and others said it will make the tuning lower.
This is the best video on the topic. ruclips.net/video/INM0g1JeMLY/видео.html
I am not aware of any videos that prove how/if poly fill works in a ported enclosure.
their are many who agree that polyfill (in the correct proportion) has a remarkable benefit. however, it seems none of them will agree why or how. i simply did the best i could with the recommended specs for my driver and it turned out well good enough for me. i must have a life because while i do want to try polyfill, i havent.
@@kenso.1 The only thing I notice about them is they tend to lower the box's vibration.
I had a smaller box with 12s and I put some pink insulation to see what would happen. It did make a difference but not much, it hit slightly lower and louder.
Would i still need a big enclosure even if I just want to run 2 8" subs of even 2 6.5"s?
Yes and no.
Smaller subs require less airspace than larger subs, holding everything else constant. So yes a box for a pair of 6.5's will be smaller than a box for a pair of 10's.
But, you are still constrained by Hoffman's iron law.