I love President T'Rina so much. She's a much more openly emotional Vulcan than we're used to, and she emphasizes the importance of emotion, and it makes sense that a Vulcan who makes compassion the foundation of her logic would be a logical choice for leading a planet shared by the Vulcans and Romulans.
Surprised you didn’t mention Kovich’s cryptic exit to address another threat potentially on par with the DMA. And I think it’s unlikely that the 3 hour tour line was a throwaway joke. With Kovich’s focus on time travel and other universes, I think this is a man that has been in the 20th century.
The Great Barrier in Star Trek V is an energy field surrounding the center of the galaxy. The Galactic Barrier in Discovery is the one that surrounds the entire galaxy as seen in Where No Man Has Gone Before, By Any Other Name, and Is There In Truth No Beauty. Two different phenomena. Not sure why the galaxy has two energy barriers though?
Better question: why does the galaxy have any energy barriers (hint: it doesn't, so I guess I mean "why does it have them in Star Trek?"), and why does the edge-of-the-galaxy barrier still appear to be pretty flat rather than a bubble around the galaxy (and why don't they just go over or under it if they are still going to display it as flat?) I figured we would not see the Great Barrier again because what it really seems to be composed of is not negative energy but rather Big TOS Energy -- if they are using it now, they ought to provide a bit more explanation (and/or at least keep closer to the original presentation) imo.
If I’m not mistaken the Galactic barrier ,which is not the Great barrier at the core of the galaxy from ST5, was erected by the Q. If memory serves this was done to protect the galaxy from some existential extra-galactic threat. Curious firstly if this is in fact the threat from which the Q felt it was necessary to protect us from, secondly if the Q will have detected Disco’s crossing and likewise if the Q will react and thirdly what kind of civilization could not only create the tech we have seen in the DMA but also overpower the will of the Q via technological brute force of some kind. I’m not expecting John Delancy to show up or anything, but the Q doesn’t have to be that Q in order to appear.
Me too Jessie, I read Tarka's and Oros' relationship as romantic rather than purely platonic, especially after this episode. Even beside all the soft talking and gentle touches, the recap literally opens with Saru and T'Rina who are very obviously meant to be read as romantic as this point, followed by Tarka talking abt his "friend"..... OKAY I am also entertaining the idea of Tarka being asexual, that would be a neat bit of representation for a Risian character imo! Just the way he looked after realising he had comforted Oros in his arms.... I literally was not prepared for the sweetness of it all 😭
I didn't get the impression that the relationship between Tarka and Oros was romantic at all. It felt to me they wound up being very close friends. I agree that the scene where they're reminiscing about Earth was forced. I liked the episode a lot! I also loved Kovitch's "Gilligan's Island" reference. He must be a classic TV fan lol!
I'm so glad that it didn't wind up being some version of Lorca. I loved the character, and actor, but didn't want him to turn into the Disco version of Harrison Wells.
Honestly, I feel like the whole "heaven is in an alternate universe" thing is kinda neat. I mean, as technology and science advance, and you start to shine a light on the unknown, there are very little logical spaces left where faith can hide in. So it makes sense that one of those spaces would be an alternate universe.
I can DEFINITELY agree with not telling the crew till they were out of the barrier. My grandma died 3 days before Thanksgiving of my senior year of college, & I took the rest of the fall semester off. Even though I didn't take a class during Interim in January, I still didn't finish my incompletes before the spring semester started; so, I had to work on those in addition to my spring classes, all while still dealing with my grief of losing my grandma. When I went home for Spring Break, I intended to finish my incompletes that week. Unfortunately, when I got home, my mom told me that my high school boyfriend had died a month earlier 😭. She waited to tell me because of everything I was already dealing with at that time, & I'm SO THANKFUL that she waited. P.S. I FINALLY finished my incompletes less than a month before I graduated.
Incompletes are truly the worst, I had one due to my prof dying just before the term ended (he was also a friend) & finished the night before the deadline a year later. Ugh. No idea what I wrote, it was awful. Congratulations on finishing, that is so hard!! And so sorry about your losses, that’s really rough.
Jesse, as a correction the barrier seen in Star Trek V was the Great Barrier, which was an unknown energy field surrounding the core of the galaxy. That is different than the Galactic Barrier which is at the edge of the galaxy, and that hasn't been seen since the first episode of TOS ever, "Where no man has gone before".
I am glad that you are doing this still on the main channel. I enjoyed this episode more than episode before too. For me, the moment when Burnham said to Rillak "You are my president" stands most and this is moment when Rillac sees what Burnham has grown into. Tarka's backstory was good addition, after everything he has done. And Shawn Doyle is again brilliant. I like how they are trying to approach to those "outgalactic" aliens. Kovich, especially. And I am eager to see what they are setting up with him (he has something in mind, I am sure - that's why he needs Bryce for something). However, more Cronenberg could not harm. For sure, not my favorite episode, but good one. Seeing Adira again putted big smile on my face. And I like how they gained some confidence. And seeing them made me think about Tilly. Maybe Tilly comes back as Kovich's joker. Btw, I think we are all cheering for Saru and T'Rina. 😀
Saru never struck me as shy...he's the picture of cool self assuredness and poise in all situations. But with President T'Rina?? He is self assuredly freaking out and I'm here for it...he reminds me of Mister Darcy. I'm looking forward to a Promenade around the decks and looking at the stars.
My husband and I do enjoy Discovery, but we do get a bit snarky when it falls into its familiar patterns a bit too often. "Earth and Ni'var are under threat! In DAYS!" Well, of course, gotta raise the stakes to the highest level! "I can't wait to go on my vacation to EARTH!" Oh, the dramatic irony. I still wish I could figure out what they really want to do with the bridge crew. They keep including these scenes with them, but they also still feel like they exist in service of the main cast. The focus on the captain saying everything they were doing felt different when everyone on the bridge was a character that got their due, and not the cast that's been there since day one but still gets shuffled to the "Co-starring" credits page. And on the subject of Tarka, a big theme of Discovery is second chances, so I'm on the fence whether he will be the big bad, or find a way to redeem himself at the end. But they're still building him up enough so that what he does either way will be pivotal. And Disco continues to be the queerest Trek ever! The crew is gay! The villains are gay! Everyone's gay! It's great.
as a rare pair shipper of linus/saru it was awesome seeing them in the same room! i was pretty intrigued by what cronenburg needed to see to. can't wait to see how the rest of the season plays out
Jessie, I always enjoy your perceptive reviews. I love your enthusiasm and honesty. I found this episode very necessary and very touching in spite of it feeling a bit like the main plot was being stretched out. It raised the stakes on the need to succeed in communicating with 10C. All the character moments served to make us the audience much more invested in the story. And, I believe that is what good storytelling is about. Even the crew talking about what they would do after the mission was over felt real to me. I have never served in any defense situation, but I have family members who have served. People tend to manage extreme stress and fear with hope by focusing on what good things will come after all the bad stuff is over. They used to do it all the time in old World War II movies until it became cinema cliche. I found it very touching, especially as we had just learned how difficult passing through the barrier had become. Tarka was shown to be suddenly vulnerable and this flipped our perceptions of him. And this is such a Star Trek thing to do. I wouldn't be surprised if he and Book become the ultimate saviors of the Milky Way.
Stamets’ overcompensation chat with Adira was SO sweet, I thoroughly loved that. My husband (68, and had a distant harsh kind of dad, like Stamets apparently had) really got that and agreed. My own dad was almost sweet to a fault in response to his own pretty harsh dad, though I wouldn’t have had him any other way. Anyway, the awkwardness of the father “way to be” is so ingrained/inherited in one way or another, and I hope we’re all moving past a lot of that in younger generations. (Should add whatever gender our fathers happen to be.) Gotta add the relationship growth between Burnham & the President was so gorgeous. Two exceedingly strong women coming together. Love love love modern Trek.
Lord, I feel in love with Tarca this episode! He turned into a stud overnight! …or maybe I’d been watching without my glasses again and didn’t notice. 😍 I would fall for the narcissist.
Gilligan’s Island, I’m impressed. I can still hear the song. I’m a true skeptic when it comes to Tarka, Book is an empath, so Tarka could be telling a story to play on Books heart, but then again Book is great at poker, so we’ll see. Tarka having a lover in the other universe is possible, but I can’t help but think Tarka has his own agenda. I guess I’m angered by Tarka’s selfish behavior, and the heck with this universe. He reminds me so much of Anorax it’s not funny.
Anyone else think Kovich is VP of the federation? And yes that was a 1000 year old Gillian’s Island joke. I like the developing mutual respect between the president and Burnham.
Disco the Trek that loves traumatic subjects, like the lose of a love one, the lose of a planet, awkward found family dads, and adorable love confessions. ;) but yeah enjoy this one a bit more then last week, the show's strong suit is it's characters so even with a "downtime" plots can be enjoyable when letting it take the back sit to them.
Love the review Jessie as always! The last few episodes of Discovery have been emotional charged between a lot of the characters and it has really increased my enjoyment. Tarka's motivation is much better understood even though it still does not justify his actions. Saru is behaving as if he has never been involved romantically with another and it is attractive. Kovich is just fun on screen and his work with Bryce, I hope, will give Bryce more screen time the future.
The Taka backstory part of these episodes feels to me like one of "the things we learnt from Anime" moments. Quite often just before a confrontation an anime will devote an episode to the antagonist's backstory, humanising them and raising the stakes since the audience now knows they have a deep need to be fulfilled so will go in no holds barred.
And it was good that President Riliak delivered the news because not only it did humanize her cause the crew could see her being rattled but she was still focused on the mission. It's the nice mix between being a leader and being a human.
It's amazing how much I was hoping Tarka was just another "Loki" maneuver of narcissism, and then we got just the most amazing rug pull of like actual feels. It was great.
That wasn't the galactic barrier in ST5. It was the barrier around the CENTER of the galaxy. It was said to be like the galactic barrier, but Sybok believed (and was proven right) that it was just made to look that way and when they went up to it it just let them through. The actual galactic barrier was never actually breached (TNG jumped past it a few times but without actually going through).
The last time the Galactic Barrier was shown was 'Where No Man Has Gone Before'. Encountering the Barrier had a major side effect on those with 'Extrasensory Perception' (ESP), such as Lt. Gary Michell. At the time, Vulcans have yet to be given psychic abilities (which since TOS TV/Movie era have been demoted to 'techniques'), so there wasn't any affect on them in the second Star Trek pilot. It's too bad that psychic powers in humans weren't further developed in the Star Trek universe, since it was mostly relegated to extraterrestrial aliens after 'Where No Man Has Gone Before'.
Came here to say this as well. Also caught the reference with it being the USS Mitchell being the ship name called as monitoring the DMA (as in Gary Mitchell from that TOS episode)
I can't watch these yet bc I haven't been able to catch DISCO yet but Jessie rocks a vest so hard, I can't help stopping in to thumbs-up in support of her when she pops up under my bell.
I feel the need to correct you right now. The Barrier at the center of the Galaxy is called the Great Barrier. The Galactic Barrier surrounds the Galaxy. The Great Barrier keeps God imprisoned, the Galactic Barrier gives certain people godlike powers and weird eyes.
I'll give you Rhys and Bryce feeling forced, but I don't think this exchange with the bridge crew was at all. When Commander Nielssen was rallying Lt. Christopher and getting that exchange going; the crew was in a high pressure situation with the world quite literally exploding around them. I saw that as more of a call to action..hey let's do our jobs but this is gonna be one hell of a story to tell when we get back. And if it underscored anything between Burnham and Riliak I saw it highlighting "We are all we've got here and to rely on each other we need to be honest with each other." While I would love an episode each devoted to the bridge crew, it's little moments like this that speak so much of their character.and to the commenter who said that Detmer/Owo exchange made that scene worthwhile....I agree 👍😀
Finished it moments ago and I'm uncharacteristically underwhelmed 3 weeks in a row. It's like... I am enjoying the episode while watching, but when we reach the end and it feels like so little has happened, I am rendered a bit meh. I was really hoping even a scintilla of a reveal, but it just seems like mysteries deepen at a snails pace despite excellent character stuff. I think it's time to pick up the pace. Excellent review as always.
@@beaver6d9 Yeah sadly no. I think S3 had 13 episodes, so it isn't that bad compared back to back. But S1 had 16 if I remember correctly. I feel like they need more episodes this season as it is, since so many have been character building and more story based on other things than the DMA/main story etc. I just hope the 10C reveal etc isn't a let down. And I really, really hope they aren't some mega super evil species or they literally destroy Earth and Nevar.
I really enjoyed this episode. If you're gonna do a moving-pieces-forward episode, I think this is the way to do it; Great visuals, weird space stuff(!), some excellent lighter moments with Saru and Stamets and a deeper emotional core from episode MVP Shawn Doyle's Tarka all make it FEEL more consequential without the writers having to burn through too much plot. Also the conversation about confirmation bias and the universal translator instantly made me think of Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra, and Jalad on the ocean, and Temba, his arms wide.
This is why TOS went to the Galactic barrier: KIRK: What will Mitchell learn in getting there? Will he know what to do with his power? Will he acquire the wisdom? DEHNER: Please go back while you still can. KIRK: Did you hear him joke about compassion? Above all else, a god needs compassion. Mitchell! Elizabeth. DEHNER: What do you know about gods? KIRK: Then let's talk about humans, about our frailties. As powerful as he gets, he'll have all that inside him. DEHNER: Go back. KIRK: You were a psychiatrist once. You know the ugly, savage things we all keep buried, that none of us dare expose. But he'll dare. Who's to stop him? He doesn't need to care. Be a psychiatrist for one minute longer. What do you see happening to him? What's your prognosis, Doctor? Why did Discovery? Exposition, flashback and melodrama.
Yeah I agree that Tarka and Oros were trauma bonded/meeting of the minds. There’s a moment where they are definitely cuddling/afterglow. Nobody is motivated like Tarka is unless they were doing it for a great love. You don’t commit possible genocide just out of obligation. This isn’t vague bromance, it’s just romance and I hope it is resolved well in the show’s plot but I know that’s asking a lot. Looking back I surmised that maybe Oros was a member of species 10-C but oh well. He could still suddenly show up somehow.
To be fair to the 32nd Century Federation, Sybok had the assistance of a nearly Q level being (especially if you count Greg Cox's Q Continuum trilogy as part of your head cannon)...
Talk of the alternate universe transporter has me wondering how that will interact with the big aliens outside the galaxy. I can’t help but wonder if Discovery is headed for another reboot or something truly strange
I like the 'Gilligan's Island' 3 hour tour reference. Great content as usual !!!! Do you think the loved they shared was Platonic (Brotherly/Deep Friends) or more than that ?
The Galactic Barrier and the Great Barrier are two very different energy fields. The Great Barrier in Star Trek V is at the center of the galaxy. The Galactic Barrier surrounds the outside of the Milky Way, as seen in the TOS episodes "Where No Man Has Gone Before" (the second TOS pilot, introducing Kirk) and "Is There in Truth No Beauty?" (The Medusan episode), and "By Any Other Name" (the Kelvan episode). The origins neither barrier are known in canon, but novels have suggested a Q origin for them.
Electromagnetic fields tend to be torus-shaped though, so it could be the same thing wrapped around both the inside and outside. Just guessing, of course.
Something that kinda drives me nuts about how they visually portray the Galactic Barrier is how it's just a narrow band. Like, space is three-dimensional! Just fly over it, or under it! (Unless there's some explanation from TOS that I don't remember?)
Given the timeline Sybok could turn up in _Strange New Worlds,_ pre _Star Trek V._ Having not seen the film in at least 30 years no idea about the feasibility of Sybok appearing after it, TBH the only thing I can recall about the movie is the 'The gravity of the situation' mountain climbing sequence...
I think I had a harder time with the backstory for Tarka because I don't think it really told us anything we didn't already know about Tarka at this point. We already knew he had a friend/lover that he believes is in another universe and he wants the DMA's power source in order to try to get to them. Seeing it happen doesn't really give us any new info on Tarka, we just... get to see it happen, I guess? Like as wonderfully acted as it is, Tarka's warmth feels so immensely out of character because he's been portrayed as near sociopathic up to this point, so it feels REALLY hard to believe that Tarka would, at any point, try to comfort someone in a panic attack, when we've seen him brush aside other people's fears more than once. He doesn't CARE that Saru was worried about the lives of the people on the Discovery during his first introductory episode. He doesn't CARE about Book or his motivations beyond being able to use them in order to manipulate the Federation to give him what he wants. He's couching his plan in terms of "I can solve the DMA problem" but I don't believe for a MOMENT that he actually cares about the lives the DMA is destroying so much as he just knows that he can use the fear and pain it's causing to gain access to the DMA's power source which is all he cares about. I don't know that this backstory they gave him, the scenes we were shown, truly explained why THIS PERSON was able to get through Tarka's self-obsessed tendencies to become someone Tarka genuinely cared about. They were fellow prisoners and both really smart scientists? I guess? I don't know, I don't think it was enough for me, not with everything else they've shown us about him being so cold and selfish and uncaring about literally everyone around him. He USES everyone around him to get what he wants, so suddenly having him shown as someone who is immediately friendly and is only slightly pushy because he is out of practice with human interaction feels massively out of character. He's not enough of a jerk in these backstory scenes to feel like it's even the same character being shown. And it's hard to feel bad for his loss when in the other half of this episode we find out that his actions have directly caused Earth and Ni'Var to be put in the line of fire. He's a screw-up and his selfish desire to get that power source could very easily ensure the loss of billions of lives at worst and the destruction of those billions of people's PLANETS at best. So I don't care that he liked this one dude, that they fell in love over being nerdy prisoners together. I want him to get to the other universe, but only because it should theoretically stop him from causing harm to THIS one and he can take his screw-ups elsewhere. It also honestly made me a little annoyed with Book and kind-of think less of him because he fell for this story of woe. I get that Book's going through it here, but Tarka's actions nearly cost the lives of four people he cared about with the shuttle incident, the ENTIRE Discovery crew when he shot those torpedoes, and now the literal rest of the galaxy with his decision to destroy the DMA anyway despite the deal with Michael. This backstory really should not change Book's opinion of Tarka, especially since he already knew like 90% of it anyway and the only new bit is that he feels guilty for having caused Oros's injuries that meant they couldn't escape together and then leaving to save himself anyway. Book should be better and smarter than to fall for this and REALLY should still not trust Tarka as far as he can throw the bastard since he's proven he can and will deceive Book and go behind his back to do exactly whatever he wants, regardless of what it will mean for Book and the people Book cares about. He would destroy Kwejian all over again if it means he got what he wanted, he doesn't care. Book doesn't seem to get that anymore and I'm disappointed in him for that.
FYI - There is a difference - In Star Trek V - The galactic core or galactic center was the central region of the Milky Way Galaxy. The core was surrounded by an immense energy field called the Great Barrier. ( Star Trek V: The Final Frontier) - In TOS and In Discovery - The barrier is on the edge of the Milky Way galaxy surrounding it like a bubble.
Great video as always - you are the highlight of my Thursday mornings (after I watch the episode at 1am... LOL) A couple thoughts on the episode: 1) It also seemed like we were saying goodbye to Bryce..! If true, it would make me sad. 2) It also made me nuts that they didn't acknowledge the time that the Enterprise breached the Galactic Barrier. I know that this is Discovery, not Enterprise, but it seems like some basic history has been lost to time. 3) Am I the only one that thinks that Oros is the source of the DMA, having created it in order for his guy to utilize the power source to bridge universes? Maybe he got captured by these ExGals and this is his only way of doing it - by creating a device that his lover would recognize (he did mention that he knew what the DMA was without even seeing it)... 4) Sybok breached the Great Barrier at the center of the galaxy, not the external galactic barrier - that was in "Where No Man Has Gone Before", when Gary Mitchell got his powers... UH OH.
Could the place they want to go be the nexus? I've never seen the shows or movies that directly deals with it so I might get some stuff wrong, but doesn't the nexus have this heaven type vibe? Along witha planet being destroyed and that orange ribbon type thing that sorta looks like the DMA
Hey Jesse I love the fact that you pointed out the Gilligan's Island reference because I caught that too and none of the other Star Trek reviewers pointed that out, you're the only one and I give you high praise for doing so. But, do you think it's possible that the reference to Galaxy quest where they also made a Gilligan's Island reference? I don't know about you but my strong feeling it is and if it is would be one of the deepest Easter eggs yet.
I don’t think the heaven universe is weirdly specific and out of place. I think it’s essential to understanding the deep desire of the characters to go to a place that’s safe from all the traumas they’ve experienced in this universe. Not unlike a longing by many a Trek fan to live in a world like Star Trek itself which, though not perfect, is certainly a more compassionate and accepting world than the one we find ourselves in.
I did enjoy seeing Tarka's backstory, I just wish we had seen it earlier. I didn't actually believe Tarka when he first told Book his story because he seemed to be trying to manipulate Book into doing what he wants and I assumed he was lying, so when they made it clear he was telling the truth I was surprised and had a hard time really caring about it because it didn't really feel real to me. Seeing it now is great and it helped me to understand him better but it felt a little bit late in the story to finally get me on board with this guy's motivations. The stuff on Discovery worked better for me. I liked the conflict between Burnham and the President, I wasn't sure what the right answer was. Seeing the crew reassuring each other by talking about the places on Earth they'd like to go almost made me side with the President even though I was more inclined to Burnham's side initially. Burnham talking about how she was angry also kind of made me think maybe making the crew angry when going into first contact isn't the greatest plan. But honesty probably should win out so I'm glad they went with that in the end. I do wish that instead of having Saru say goodbye to Bryce it would have instead been Saru or Burnham saying goodbye to Tilly. No offense to Bryce, I like him, but I care a lot more about Tilly.
Per usual, splendid review. I especially like the point about the “forced” earth love conversations. However, I’m not sure about there being a romantic aspect in the Tarka relationship with Oros.
Yeah, the sudden "earth talk" was pretty cringe and obvious. The science discussions around this season are going to be pretty intense at the next con. A lot of deep cut astrophysics this season.
I'm really liking the relationship between Rillak and Burnham. The stated theme of the season is uncertainty. That's what the producers have told us. That's abundantly clear in the text and subtext of the episodes so far, but I'd say that complementary themes to that one, as seen in the season so far, are themes of transparency and good faith. It's something that goes back at least as far back as the first season finale, something that Pike certainly demonstrated as captain in season two, and something Burnham finally fully integrated after "Unification III," having to relearn that lesson several times before that. The two had a discussion in which they clearly, but respectfully, delineated boundaries. Burnham is in command of the ship, and will not be questioned on the bridge. Rillak must navigate the delicate political situation as she sees fit. By granting Rillak the shipwide address, she allowed Rillak to make the choice to divulge the contents of the update regarding the DMA. I liked how the Tarka/Oros story was kind of like DSC's riff on the classic DS9 episode "Hard Time." Tarka and his friend, Oros were prisoners at a work camp run by the Emerald Chain. As in "Hard Time," Oros was already there when Tarka was detained. The two gradually bond over science, particularly over the digits of the Golden Ratio. They use their engineering powers to develop an interdimensional transporter. It fails and alerts the guards. As in "Hard Time," Tarka betrays Oros, this time by having previously told the guards and Osyraa that he would tell them what Oros was working on, in exchange for freedom. As in "Hard Time," Oros forgives his friend. Though Tarka defeats the guards, Oros is severely injured so he begs Tarka to make a break for it. That was the last Tarka saw of him. He's returned every year since, hoping for any sign that Oros is even alive, or if he managed to make any progress traveling to an alternate universe. One major difference from "Hard Time," is that Tarka is the calming influence, rather than the veteran prisoner. It certainly doesn't excuse anything that he's done. It would be fruitful to contrast this with J'Vini from "Choose to Live," who was intent on saving a species, leading her to kill Starfleet officers to get dilithium. Burnham wanted justice served, despite her and Tilly helping J'Vini save that species. She had to settle for turning her over to Ni'Var. At this point, Burnham only knows that Book and Tarka did not comply with the conditions Book agreed to. Before "All In," she thought Tarka coerced him. Now, she probably has to assume that Book lied to her. It's kind of the opposite side of the coin.
Why are people reading the Tarka relationship as purely platonic? Don't they go from separate beds to sharing a single bed? And then there's all that homoerotic subtext... come on.
To me, the tell/ not tell question is a slam dunk to me: the crew has the right to have a homeworld to come back to. As long as you feel you can get away with it, in these circunstances you lie if you need to.Apologise later if you feel you need to, but do whatever you need to do to save the people on these two planets. And the shore leave banter felt like the kind of thing this crew does on a regular basis during crunch time. Also, the barrier in ST V is, IIRC correctly, in the center o the galaxy. Discovery went through the barrier around the edge. The one from the second TOS pilot, and later in the "By any other name". I don't know wether any other hero ship in the franchise ever went there. I wonder if they know of these events Kirk and Spock went through after they left?
The only way I see this mystery pay off is if they introduce to us an alien species that becomes important and iconic in the long term: Borg, dominion, Q, etc. I don’t want anything resolved in a neat little bow. Like sure, resolve the Earth/Ni’Var/Titan threat. But I would love a new established recurring presence in the universe that isn’t fixed in one episode by some cheap easy answers trick, which seems to be the trouble with this mystery box format.
Was that the galactic barrier in ST:V? I mean, I know there's a barrier around the edge of the galaxy (the galactic barrier) and there is a barrier around the center of the galaxy (the barrier from ST:V) but are they the same barrier? I dunno. ST:V was a weird one.
It's not just a reason for Tarka to get the power source. I'm willing to bet it's also a reason to bring back The Guardian of Forever. The Guardian removing semi-villains or anti-heroes from this here universe and putting them in another has established precedent in Discovery, after all. Hypothesis: however the 10C situation may be resolved, someone may find that Tarka still being around is politically/diplomatically inconvenient/unacceptable/casus belli. Multiple parties claiming the right to put him on trial after executing him. So the president and/or the admiral, or perhaps even just the captain on her own, find a way to smuggle Tarka to the Guardian's planet and off he goes. In my brain, they beam down, Carl does his whole suddenlty-appearing-behind-them trick, perhaps with Burnham already giving a subtle hint that she is expecting that (I bet she'd totally get off on really surprising Tarka). And after Carl's game of being cryptic and in a coat, she prompts him "Do the thing". Carl: "What thing?" Burnham: "Oh, you know what I mean. The thing." Tarka: "Who the heck is this?!" And he does the thing. Maybe without an exploding doorway. Or something else that shouldn't be out there in the snow exploding. LIke a table. Or mirth.
The Great Barrier from Star Trek V is not the same as the Galactic Barrier from Where No Man Has Gone Before, By Any Other Name, and this season of Discovery. Sybok was trying to get to the center of the galaxy (which we now know is a very bad idea because there ain’t gonna be no Sha Ka Ree there, just a big honkin’ black hole), while the Galactic Barrier is at the edge of the Milky Way. Apparently there are just a lot of barriers in the galaxy.
I loved this episode, but... did anyone else notice that moment in one of the flashbacks where Oros was crunching numbers on his holo tricorder and the VFX team seemingly forgot to add the tricorder screen? Took me out of the story for a bit.
it feels to me like every time they attempt to flesh out the discovery bridge crew and build the kind of relationship that we're used to with previous star trek shows, it feels really forced like the scene you discussed in this episode. its very frustrating that they cant seem to get it right when it came so naturally in other star trek shows!!
Good morning Jessie, I agree it was better then last week in some ways BUT SHIPS FIRING AT EACH OTHER that is cool. As for the Tarka story It was ok But I didn't feel for him he is a man not to be trusted. I hope Book restrains him and takes him into the Federation for trial. Book said he would face the music for his part in what they did. I am interested in seeing what is on the planet next week. IT IS A PENAL COLONY full of bad aliens FROM species 10 - C point of view BUT COULD be allies to the Federation. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this episode.
Disco first season follows that time honored Trek pattern (lower decks is the exception to the rule) The first season will be rough. It took till mid season 2 to get me well and truly hooked
I'm anxious to meet Species 10-C so this episode I was hoping to see them or at least learn something more about them. However, I do think this episode was necessary for character development. It was good that Tarka's character got flushed out more. He's not a dastardly evil scientist, but I still don't trust him. It was good to see the President and Burnham find common ground. It showed growth on Burnham's side. I can't help but wonder if this is going to end with Book going to this other dimension with Tarka. I still have my fingers crossed that they (Book and Burnham) can reconcile.
How many seasons do you need for character development? We should know more about these people by now, the fact that we don't is down to poor writing and story telling
@@AndrewWilliams-eh1nh The character development I was referring to was Tarka. He's a new character this season, so yes, there is going to be character development of his character. We got more on his backstory. That's not bad writing - that's good. We also got to see growth in the relationship of Burham and the President. That's also good. And we already know plenty about the main characters, so I'm not sure what more from them you want to know.
I agree that the Tarka story was the strongest part of this. What I don't get is why they haven't just dribbled it out to us over the whole season, or dedicated an entire episode to it earlier in the season. If they were going to _show_ us his backstory, why did they even bother just telling us about it before? Why make him mysterious and shadowy if you're only going to try to humanize him later? Oh, and Sybok found a way through the Great Barrier at the centre of the galaxy, not the Galactic Barrier at the edge of the galaxy.
I actually think the Tarka plot might get flipped on its head, or I hope, at least. I'm expecting that they have built him up to be the one who ultimately gets betrayed in the end, or has somehow misunderstood what's happening. Perhaps someone else got through the portal, perhaps the universe on the other side isn't what was expected, perhaps theres more to his friend than it appears, or maybe some combination of these. It would be too simple to just turn him badder after this, he makes more sense morally grey-ish. Perhaps we get sort of a twilight zone type scenario where he gets to the other side and either realizes that homeboy had a different idea of paradise than him, or that paradise has changed him, or that the universe had a different idea of paradise than they assumed when they made N = Paradise in their Holo-calc.
I hope they will get to the point sometime soon. Dragging out this “mystery” from episode 1 till the very end is tiresome and frustrating. At this point I couldn’t care less about Tarka’s backstory or Saru’s romantic adventures, this can all be dealt with later. 🙄 This puts such a downer on the story, Tarka’s backstory was wonderful really, but it’s overshadowed by the need to know what’s really going on and the writers shoot themselves in the foot. Next season I’ll just watch it all backwards 😎 It feels like they’re stalling and stalling and stalling. 😡
I loved cybog too, the movie is a bit wacky, but he isso well played, and its an interesting way how he is very uderstandabl and not evil but unifies with, a cult , but well intended if ultimately bad. And especially it u used explore tthe main trio and pain, which i very real. Also yes tng was te best, klingons and cardasian politics aside, with charactersmeeting weird things. I was diapointed season 2 wasnt that wholly.
Theories of Tarka engaged in some narcissistic selfcest have been amusing. I would have laughed if they went there, but I'm glad that they didn't. As a science quibble - if the combined energy of geothermal + a warp core was enough to power the interdimensional transporter, there's no reason why it would have taken him so long, or need something so massiive as the DMA source. Surely a star would yield more than even a powerful planet. He's got access to antimatter, and isolineum that can blow holes in spacetime. But yes, I am here for the weird Trek tech
It was a nice wish-fulfillment fantasy to see so many conflicts resolved and people affirming each other. I still think Earth President is styled to call-to-mind President Coin from hunger games and other stern redheads in order for it to be subversive when she turns out to be a worthy leader and not evil. Oh, I would be so mad if she's evil. I'm ok with Tarka and Oros going away and taking all other Iron-Man "Me traumatized smart boy allowed to be rude to all you inferiors"-type guys away from the rest of us who also have trauma and awkwardness but also don't feel entitled to impatiently use other people.
For me this episode kinda lifted Disco S4 out of of the miry clay. They went back to the character building back story / flashbacks that, imo, adds a bit of weight to the 'experience'.
Wait up, not enough time to rewatch Picard S1! Too much Trek, what the heck?! How’s that possible. A very very few things in life seem to be going well anyway.
I always wondered who the diehard fans of Star Trek Discovery are, that it kept going into its forth season. Because people were paying to see this, right? I still don't like it, at all, because every time Burnham begins to whisper dramatically, I have to roll my eyes or laugh, as another rushed, emotional non-payoff is coming. And in fact, I keep watching specifically to mock with my friends how silly it is in its writing, but I guess I can now at least kind of understand what people get from it. I don't agree at all, I find the tugging at heartstrings really inefficient, but perhaps we are just a too jaded lot.
That crew remembrance scene was cringey, totally agree with you as it pulled me out of the story too. It seemed to give the (mostly silent largely unknown bridge) crew some extra backstory but that’s just lazy storytelling or tightass contracting of the actors. Overall it’s good but I feel like the writers are in too much of a bubble, their ideas and character development are solid but they don’t have enough good editors. Cut baby, cut.
i thought this was an ok episode. While I appreciate finding ot more about Tarka and his backstory/motivations, I felt like this was an attempt at making him a more likable character in the show...but it didnt work for me
Detmer: I'll be in Hawaii drinking Mai Tais.
Owosekun: I'll be there with you.
That exchange alone made that scene worthwhile.
I love President T'Rina so much. She's a much more openly emotional Vulcan than we're used to, and she emphasizes the importance of emotion, and it makes sense that a Vulcan who makes compassion the foundation of her logic would be a logical choice for leading a planet shared by the Vulcans and Romulans.
Vulcans are repressed not unemotional.
@@gingergrant1057 - It would be more proactive and accurate to say that we live with discipline. ;)
The incorporation of the Romulans also seems to have made the Vulcans kinder.
Surprised you didn’t mention Kovich’s cryptic exit to address another threat potentially on par with the DMA. And I think it’s unlikely that the 3 hour tour line was a throwaway joke. With Kovich’s focus on time travel and other universes, I think this is a man that has been in the 20th century.
"Fair warning. I'm always gonna reach for you when it looks like you're hurting.' My. Damn. Heart.
The Great Barrier in Star Trek V is an energy field surrounding the center of the galaxy. The Galactic Barrier in Discovery is the one that surrounds the entire galaxy as seen in Where No Man Has Gone Before, By Any Other Name, and Is There In Truth No Beauty. Two different phenomena. Not sure why the galaxy has two energy barriers though?
Better question: why does the galaxy have any energy barriers (hint: it doesn't, so I guess I mean "why does it have them in Star Trek?"), and why does the edge-of-the-galaxy barrier still appear to be pretty flat rather than a bubble around the galaxy (and why don't they just go over or under it if they are still going to display it as flat?)
I figured we would not see the Great Barrier again because what it really seems to be composed of is not negative energy but rather Big TOS Energy -- if they are using it now, they ought to provide a bit more explanation (and/or at least keep closer to the original presentation) imo.
@@oneoftheorder it’s a plot device so they don’t have to explain why there are no intergalactic and center of the galaxy beings.
It's because the writing is being done by 5 year olds
@@carschmn Barclay brought the Enterprise to the galactic center to meet an advanced species we never talked about again.
Think of one as a diaphragm and the other as a condom. But with ion storms.
If I’m not mistaken the Galactic barrier ,which is not the Great barrier at the core of the galaxy from ST5, was erected by the Q. If memory serves this was done to protect the galaxy from some existential extra-galactic threat. Curious firstly if this is in fact the threat from which the Q felt it was necessary to protect us from, secondly if the Q will have detected Disco’s crossing and likewise if the Q will react and thirdly what kind of civilization could not only create the tech we have seen in the DMA but also overpower the will of the Q via technological brute force of some kind. I’m not expecting John Delancy to show up or anything, but the Q doesn’t have to be that Q in order to appear.
Technically that was from the Q-Continuum novels. Not exactly canon but it was an interesting read
Me too Jessie, I read Tarka's and Oros' relationship as romantic rather than purely platonic, especially after this episode. Even beside all the soft talking and gentle touches, the recap literally opens with Saru and T'Rina who are very obviously meant to be read as romantic as this point, followed by Tarka talking abt his "friend"..... OKAY
I am also entertaining the idea of Tarka being asexual, that would be a neat bit of representation for a Risian character imo! Just the way he looked after realising he had comforted Oros in his arms.... I literally was not prepared for the sweetness of it all 😭
I didn't get the impression that the relationship between Tarka and Oros was romantic at all.
It felt to me they wound up being very close friends. I agree that the scene where they're reminiscing about Earth was forced.
I liked the episode a lot! I also loved Kovitch's "Gilligan's Island" reference. He must be a classic TV fan lol!
I'm so glad that it didn't wind up being some version of Lorca. I loved the character, and actor, but didn't want him to turn into the Disco version of Harrison Wells.
Honestly, I feel like the whole "heaven is in an alternate universe" thing is kinda neat. I mean, as technology and science advance, and you start to shine a light on the unknown, there are very little logical spaces left where faith can hide in. So it makes sense that one of those spaces would be an alternate universe.
I can DEFINITELY agree with not telling the crew till they were out of the barrier. My grandma died 3 days before Thanksgiving of my senior year of college, & I took the rest of the fall semester off. Even though I didn't take a class during Interim in January, I still didn't finish my incompletes before the spring semester started; so, I had to work on those in addition to my spring classes, all while still dealing with my grief of losing my grandma. When I went home for Spring Break, I intended to finish my incompletes that week. Unfortunately, when I got home, my mom told me that my high school boyfriend had died a month earlier 😭. She waited to tell me because of everything I was already dealing with at that time, & I'm SO THANKFUL that she waited. P.S. I FINALLY finished my incompletes less than a month before I graduated.
Incompletes are truly the worst, I had one due to my prof dying just before the term ended (he was also a friend) & finished the night before the deadline a year later. Ugh. No idea what I wrote, it was awful. Congratulations on finishing, that is so hard!! And so sorry about your losses, that’s really rough.
10:58 Weirdest thing for me about the space orchids is that they're still in the Discovery title sequence despite having been reassigned to Picard.
Jesse,
as a correction the barrier seen in Star Trek V was the Great Barrier, which was an unknown energy field surrounding the core of the galaxy. That is different than the Galactic Barrier which is at the edge of the galaxy, and that hasn't been seen since the first episode of TOS ever, "Where no man has gone before".
@@kc0itf You're absolutely right, I stand corrected. Forgot about those two episodes.
I am glad that you are doing this still on the main channel.
I enjoyed this episode more than episode before too.
For me, the moment when Burnham said to Rillak "You are my president" stands most and this is moment when Rillac sees what Burnham has grown into.
Tarka's backstory was good addition, after everything he has done. And Shawn Doyle is again brilliant.
I like how they are trying to approach to those "outgalactic" aliens. Kovich, especially. And I am eager to see what they are setting up with him (he has something in mind, I am sure - that's why he needs Bryce for something). However, more Cronenberg could not harm.
For sure, not my favorite episode, but good one.
Seeing Adira again putted big smile on my face. And I like how they gained some confidence. And seeing them made me think about Tilly. Maybe Tilly comes back as Kovich's joker.
Btw, I think we are all cheering for Saru and T'Rina. 😀
Saru never struck me as shy...he's the picture of cool self assuredness and poise in all situations. But with President T'Rina?? He is self assuredly freaking out and I'm here for it...he reminds me of Mister Darcy. I'm looking forward to a Promenade around the decks and looking at the stars.
Good thing Saru is way more polite than first-half-of-the-book Mr. Darcy!
@@fairycat23 Yeah, you're 100 percent right on that!
My husband and I do enjoy Discovery, but we do get a bit snarky when it falls into its familiar patterns a bit too often.
"Earth and Ni'var are under threat! In DAYS!" Well, of course, gotta raise the stakes to the highest level!
"I can't wait to go on my vacation to EARTH!" Oh, the dramatic irony.
I still wish I could figure out what they really want to do with the bridge crew. They keep including these scenes with them, but they also still feel like they exist in service of the main cast. The focus on the captain saying everything they were doing felt different when everyone on the bridge was a character that got their due, and not the cast that's been there since day one but still gets shuffled to the "Co-starring" credits page.
And on the subject of Tarka, a big theme of Discovery is second chances, so I'm on the fence whether he will be the big bad, or find a way to redeem himself at the end. But they're still building him up enough so that what he does either way will be pivotal.
And Disco continues to be the queerest Trek ever! The crew is gay! The villains are gay! Everyone's gay! It's great.
as a rare pair shipper of linus/saru it was awesome seeing them in the same room! i was pretty intrigued by what cronenburg needed to see to. can't wait to see how the rest of the season plays out
Jessie, I always enjoy your perceptive reviews. I love your enthusiasm and honesty.
I found this episode very necessary and very touching in spite of it feeling a bit like the main plot was being stretched out. It raised the stakes on the need to succeed in communicating with 10C. All the character moments served to make us the audience much more invested in the story. And, I believe that is what good storytelling is about. Even the crew talking about what they would do after the mission was over felt real to me. I have never served in any defense situation, but I have family members who have served. People tend to manage extreme stress and fear with hope by focusing on what good things will come after all the bad stuff is over. They used to do it all the time in old World War II movies until it became cinema cliche. I found it very touching, especially as we had just learned how difficult passing through the barrier had become.
Tarka was shown to be suddenly vulnerable and this flipped our perceptions of him. And this is such a Star Trek thing to do. I wouldn't be surprised if he and Book become the ultimate saviors of the Milky Way.
Stamets’ overcompensation chat with Adira was SO sweet, I thoroughly loved that. My husband (68, and had a distant harsh kind of dad, like Stamets apparently had) really got that and agreed. My own dad was almost sweet to a fault in response to his own pretty harsh dad, though I wouldn’t have had him any other way. Anyway, the awkwardness of the father “way to be” is so ingrained/inherited in one way or another, and I hope we’re all moving past a lot of that in younger generations. (Should add whatever gender our fathers happen to be.) Gotta add the relationship growth between Burnham & the President was so gorgeous. Two exceedingly strong women coming together. Love love love modern Trek.
Lord, I feel in love with Tarca this episode! He turned into a stud overnight! …or maybe I’d been watching without my glasses again and didn’t notice. 😍 I would fall for the narcissist.
Gilligan’s Island, I’m impressed. I can still hear the song. I’m a true skeptic when it comes to Tarka, Book is an empath, so Tarka could be telling a story to play on Books heart, but then again Book is great at poker, so we’ll see. Tarka having a lover in the other universe is possible, but I can’t help but think Tarka has his own agenda. I guess I’m angered by Tarka’s selfish behavior, and the heck with this universe. He reminds me so much of Anorax it’s not funny.
Anyone else think Kovich is VP of the federation?
And yes that was a 1000 year old Gillian’s Island joke.
I like the developing mutual respect between the president and Burnham.
I think the 'three hour tour' is an in universe trope/reference to Voyager.
I love your reviews, I'm so pumped you're gonna review both new Trek episodes next week!
Disco the Trek that loves traumatic subjects, like the lose of a love one, the lose of a planet, awkward found family dads, and adorable love confessions. ;)
but yeah enjoy this one a bit more then last week, the show's strong suit is it's characters so even with a "downtime" plots can be enjoyable when letting it take the back sit to them.
Love the review Jessie as always! The last few episodes of Discovery have been emotional charged between a lot of the characters and it has really increased my enjoyment. Tarka's motivation is much better understood even though it still does not justify his actions. Saru is behaving as if he has never been involved romantically with another and it is attractive. Kovich is just fun on screen and his work with Bryce, I hope, will give Bryce more screen time the future.
The Taka backstory part of these episodes feels to me like one of "the things we learnt from Anime" moments. Quite often just before a confrontation an anime will devote an episode to the antagonist's backstory, humanising them and raising the stakes since the audience now knows they have a deep need to be fulfilled so will go in no holds barred.
And it was good that President Riliak delivered the news because not only it did humanize her cause the crew could see her being rattled but she was still focused on the mission. It's the nice mix between being a leader and being a human.
It's amazing how much I was hoping Tarka was just another "Loki" maneuver of narcissism, and then we got just the most amazing rug pull of like actual feels. It was great.
That wasn't the galactic barrier in ST5. It was the barrier around the CENTER of the galaxy. It was said to be like the galactic barrier, but Sybok believed (and was proven right) that it was just made to look that way and when they went up to it it just let them through. The actual galactic barrier was never actually breached (TNG jumped past it a few times but without actually going through).
The Enterprise went through the barrier on it's way to the Andromeda Galaxy, when the Kelvans highjacked it.
The last time the Galactic Barrier was shown was 'Where No Man Has Gone Before'. Encountering the Barrier had a major side effect on those with 'Extrasensory Perception' (ESP), such as Lt. Gary Michell. At the time, Vulcans have yet to be given psychic abilities (which since TOS TV/Movie era have been demoted to 'techniques'), so there wasn't any affect on them in the second Star Trek pilot.
It's too bad that psychic powers in humans weren't further developed in the Star Trek universe, since it was mostly relegated to extraterrestrial aliens after 'Where No Man Has Gone Before'.
Came here to say this as well. Also caught the reference with it being the USS Mitchell being the ship name called as monitoring the DMA (as in Gary Mitchell from that TOS episode)
I can't watch these yet bc I haven't been able to catch DISCO yet but Jessie rocks a vest so hard, I can't help stopping in to thumbs-up in support of her when she pops up under my bell.
Trapped outside the galactic barrier ... with your crush! The horror!
So many great points here, made me appreciate the episode even more
We've finally get to see the Saru and T'Rina dinner date, I just wish it wasn't so... I don't know... depressing for T'Rina.
I feel like a Kelvan refugee should be a delegate, but that's an overly deep lore complaint.
I like your Bajoran earring that's in the shape of a Starfleet Delta.
3 hour tour is a voyager reference. voyager was sent on a 3 day mission and got stranded and people compare the characters to gilligans island.
its a bit of a boomer joke.
Great review Jessie 👏
Never apologise for horny star trek jokes, lol
I feel the need to correct you right now. The Barrier at the center of the Galaxy is called the Great Barrier. The Galactic Barrier surrounds the Galaxy.
The Great Barrier keeps God imprisoned, the Galactic Barrier gives certain people godlike powers and weird eyes.
And by God we mean a dangerous and capricious threat which calls itself a god, but obviously isn’t.
I'll give you Rhys and Bryce feeling forced, but I don't think this exchange with the bridge crew was at all. When Commander Nielssen was rallying Lt. Christopher and getting that exchange going; the crew was in a high pressure situation with the world quite literally exploding around them. I saw that as more of a call to action..hey let's do our jobs but this is gonna be one hell of a story to tell when we get back. And if it underscored anything between Burnham and Riliak I saw it highlighting "We are all we've got here and to rely on each other we need to be honest with each other." While I would love an episode each devoted to the bridge crew, it's little moments like this that speak so much of their character.and to the commenter who said that Detmer/Owo exchange made that scene worthwhile....I agree 👍😀
Finished it moments ago and I'm uncharacteristically underwhelmed 3 weeks in a row. It's like... I am enjoying the episode while watching, but when we reach the end and it feels like so little has happened, I am rendered a bit meh. I was really hoping even a scintilla of a reveal, but it just seems like mysteries deepen at a snails pace despite excellent character stuff. I think it's time to pick up the pace. Excellent review as always.
I mean there's just two episodes left, so I would hope they pick up the pace now lol
@@LordLOC I seriously thought there would be like 5 episodes left for the season for some reason.
Hard agree
@@beaver6d9 Yeah sadly no. I think S3 had 13 episodes, so it isn't that bad compared back to back. But S1 had 16 if I remember correctly. I feel like they need more episodes this season as it is, since so many have been character building and more story based on other things than the DMA/main story etc. I just hope the 10C reveal etc isn't a let down. And I really, really hope they aren't some mega super evil species or they literally destroy Earth and Nevar.
Great review as always 👍 thank you
Oros builds a rainbow bridge and finds Daddy Kirk.
I really enjoyed this episode. If you're gonna do a moving-pieces-forward episode, I think this is the way to do it; Great visuals, weird space stuff(!), some excellent lighter moments with Saru and Stamets and a deeper emotional core from episode MVP Shawn Doyle's Tarka all make it FEEL more consequential without the writers having to burn through too much plot. Also the conversation about confirmation bias and the universal translator instantly made me think of Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra, and Jalad on the ocean, and Temba, his arms wide.
This is why TOS went to the Galactic barrier:
KIRK: What will Mitchell learn in getting there? Will he know what to do with his power? Will he acquire the wisdom?
DEHNER: Please go back while you still can.
KIRK: Did you hear him joke about compassion? Above all else, a god needs compassion. Mitchell! Elizabeth.
DEHNER: What do you know about gods?
KIRK: Then let's talk about humans, about our frailties. As powerful as he gets, he'll have all that inside him.
DEHNER: Go back.
KIRK: You were a psychiatrist once. You know the ugly, savage things we all keep buried, that none of us dare expose. But he'll dare. Who's to stop him? He doesn't need to care. Be a psychiatrist for one minute longer. What do you see happening to him? What's your prognosis, Doctor?
Why did Discovery? Exposition, flashback and melodrama.
How long before you write for star trek
Yeah I agree that Tarka and Oros were trauma bonded/meeting of the minds. There’s a moment where they are definitely cuddling/afterglow. Nobody is motivated like Tarka is unless they were doing it for a great love. You don’t commit possible genocide just out of obligation. This isn’t vague bromance, it’s just romance and I hope it is resolved well in the show’s plot but I know that’s asking a lot. Looking back I surmised that maybe Oros was a member of species 10-C but oh well. He could still suddenly show up somehow.
To be fair to the 32nd Century Federation, Sybok had the assistance of a nearly Q level being (especially if you count Greg Cox's Q Continuum trilogy as part of your head cannon)...
Talk of the alternate universe transporter has me wondering how that will interact with the big aliens outside the galaxy. I can’t help but wonder if Discovery is headed for another reboot or something truly strange
I like the 'Gilligan's Island' 3 hour tour reference. Great content as usual !!!! Do you think the loved they shared was Platonic (Brotherly/Deep Friends) or more than that ?
The Galactic Barrier and the Great Barrier are two very different energy fields. The Great Barrier in Star Trek V is at the center of the galaxy. The Galactic Barrier surrounds the outside of the Milky Way, as seen in the TOS episodes "Where No Man Has Gone Before" (the second TOS pilot, introducing Kirk) and "Is There in Truth No Beauty?" (The Medusan episode), and "By Any Other Name" (the Kelvan episode).
The origins neither barrier are known in canon, but novels have suggested a Q origin for them.
Electromagnetic fields tend to be torus-shaped though, so it could be the same thing wrapped around both the inside and outside. Just guessing, of course.
Something that kinda drives me nuts about how they visually portray the Galactic Barrier is how it's just a narrow band. Like, space is three-dimensional! Just fly over it, or under it! (Unless there's some explanation from TOS that I don't remember?)
Given the timeline Sybok could turn up in _Strange New Worlds,_ pre _Star Trek V._ Having not seen the film in at least 30 years no idea about the feasibility of Sybok appearing after it, TBH the only thing I can recall about the movie is the 'The gravity of the situation' mountain climbing sequence...
I think I had a harder time with the backstory for Tarka because I don't think it really told us anything we didn't already know about Tarka at this point. We already knew he had a friend/lover that he believes is in another universe and he wants the DMA's power source in order to try to get to them. Seeing it happen doesn't really give us any new info on Tarka, we just... get to see it happen, I guess? Like as wonderfully acted as it is, Tarka's warmth feels so immensely out of character because he's been portrayed as near sociopathic up to this point, so it feels REALLY hard to believe that Tarka would, at any point, try to comfort someone in a panic attack, when we've seen him brush aside other people's fears more than once. He doesn't CARE that Saru was worried about the lives of the people on the Discovery during his first introductory episode. He doesn't CARE about Book or his motivations beyond being able to use them in order to manipulate the Federation to give him what he wants. He's couching his plan in terms of "I can solve the DMA problem" but I don't believe for a MOMENT that he actually cares about the lives the DMA is destroying so much as he just knows that he can use the fear and pain it's causing to gain access to the DMA's power source which is all he cares about. I don't know that this backstory they gave him, the scenes we were shown, truly explained why THIS PERSON was able to get through Tarka's self-obsessed tendencies to become someone Tarka genuinely cared about. They were fellow prisoners and both really smart scientists? I guess? I don't know, I don't think it was enough for me, not with everything else they've shown us about him being so cold and selfish and uncaring about literally everyone around him. He USES everyone around him to get what he wants, so suddenly having him shown as someone who is immediately friendly and is only slightly pushy because he is out of practice with human interaction feels massively out of character. He's not enough of a jerk in these backstory scenes to feel like it's even the same character being shown. And it's hard to feel bad for his loss when in the other half of this episode we find out that his actions have directly caused Earth and Ni'Var to be put in the line of fire. He's a screw-up and his selfish desire to get that power source could very easily ensure the loss of billions of lives at worst and the destruction of those billions of people's PLANETS at best. So I don't care that he liked this one dude, that they fell in love over being nerdy prisoners together. I want him to get to the other universe, but only because it should theoretically stop him from causing harm to THIS one and he can take his screw-ups elsewhere.
It also honestly made me a little annoyed with Book and kind-of think less of him because he fell for this story of woe. I get that Book's going through it here, but Tarka's actions nearly cost the lives of four people he cared about with the shuttle incident, the ENTIRE Discovery crew when he shot those torpedoes, and now the literal rest of the galaxy with his decision to destroy the DMA anyway despite the deal with Michael. This backstory really should not change Book's opinion of Tarka, especially since he already knew like 90% of it anyway and the only new bit is that he feels guilty for having caused Oros's injuries that meant they couldn't escape together and then leaving to save himself anyway. Book should be better and smarter than to fall for this and REALLY should still not trust Tarka as far as he can throw the bastard since he's proven he can and will deceive Book and go behind his back to do exactly whatever he wants, regardless of what it will mean for Book and the people Book cares about. He would destroy Kwejian all over again if it means he got what he wanted, he doesn't care. Book doesn't seem to get that anymore and I'm disappointed in him for that.
FYI - There is a difference - In Star Trek V - The galactic core or galactic center was the central region of the Milky Way Galaxy. The core was surrounded by an immense energy field called the Great Barrier. ( Star Trek V: The Final Frontier) - In TOS and In Discovery - The barrier is on the edge of the Milky Way galaxy surrounding it like a bubble.
the weirder the better. its star trek, its super fun!!
Jessie begins with measured flirtation. Yet...still silly. Rock on, JG!
Great video as always - you are the highlight of my Thursday mornings (after I watch the episode at 1am... LOL)
A couple thoughts on the episode:
1) It also seemed like we were saying goodbye to Bryce..! If true, it would make me sad.
2) It also made me nuts that they didn't acknowledge the time that the Enterprise breached the Galactic Barrier. I know that this is Discovery, not Enterprise, but it seems like some basic history has been lost to time.
3) Am I the only one that thinks that Oros is the source of the DMA, having created it in order for his guy to utilize the power source to bridge universes? Maybe he got captured by these ExGals and this is his only way of doing it - by creating a device that his lover would recognize (he did mention that he knew what the DMA was without even seeing it)...
4) Sybok breached the Great Barrier at the center of the galaxy, not the external galactic barrier - that was in "Where No Man Has Gone Before", when Gary Mitchell got his powers... UH OH.
Could the place they want to go be the nexus? I've never seen the shows or movies that directly deals with it so I might get some stuff wrong, but doesn't the nexus have this heaven type vibe? Along witha planet being destroyed and that orange ribbon type thing that sorta looks like the DMA
Yeah, the Galactic Barrier is a giant lava lamp.
Poor Romulans. They can’t get a break.
Hey Jesse I love the fact that you pointed out the Gilligan's Island reference because I caught that too and none of the other Star Trek reviewers pointed that out, you're the only one and I give you high praise for doing so. But, do you think it's possible that the reference to Galaxy quest where they also made a Gilligan's Island reference? I don't know about you but my strong feeling it is and if it is would be one of the deepest Easter eggs yet.
The writers considered Voyager as Gilligan's Island in space
I don’t think the heaven universe is weirdly specific and out of place. I think it’s essential to understanding the deep desire of the characters to go to a place that’s safe from all the traumas they’ve experienced in this universe. Not unlike a longing by many a Trek fan to live in a world like Star Trek itself which, though not perfect, is certainly a more compassionate and accepting world than the one we find ourselves in.
I did enjoy seeing Tarka's backstory, I just wish we had seen it earlier. I didn't actually believe Tarka when he first told Book his story because he seemed to be trying to manipulate Book into doing what he wants and I assumed he was lying, so when they made it clear he was telling the truth I was surprised and had a hard time really caring about it because it didn't really feel real to me. Seeing it now is great and it helped me to understand him better but it felt a little bit late in the story to finally get me on board with this guy's motivations.
The stuff on Discovery worked better for me. I liked the conflict between Burnham and the President, I wasn't sure what the right answer was. Seeing the crew reassuring each other by talking about the places on Earth they'd like to go almost made me side with the President even though I was more inclined to Burnham's side initially. Burnham talking about how she was angry also kind of made me think maybe making the crew angry when going into first contact isn't the greatest plan. But honesty probably should win out so I'm glad they went with that in the end.
I do wish that instead of having Saru say goodbye to Bryce it would have instead been Saru or Burnham saying goodbye to Tilly. No offense to Bryce, I like him, but I care a lot more about Tilly.
Per usual, splendid review. I especially like the point about the “forced” earth love conversations. However, I’m not sure about there being a romantic aspect in the Tarka relationship with Oros.
I enjoyed the episode especially the budding romance.
I feel bad not adding anything to the conversation but what is your tall lamp it's great.
Yeah, the sudden "earth talk" was pretty cringe and obvious. The science discussions around this season are going to be pretty intense at the next con. A lot of deep cut astrophysics this season.
I'm really liking the relationship between Rillak and Burnham. The stated theme of the season is uncertainty. That's what the producers have told us. That's abundantly clear in the text and subtext of the episodes so far, but I'd say that complementary themes to that one, as seen in the season so far, are themes of transparency and good faith. It's something that goes back at least as far back as the first season finale, something that Pike certainly demonstrated as captain in season two, and something Burnham finally fully integrated after "Unification III," having to relearn that lesson several times before that.
The two had a discussion in which they clearly, but respectfully, delineated boundaries. Burnham is in command of the ship, and will not be questioned on the bridge. Rillak must navigate the delicate political situation as she sees fit. By granting Rillak the shipwide address, she allowed Rillak to make the choice to divulge the contents of the update regarding the DMA.
I liked how the Tarka/Oros story was kind of like DSC's riff on the classic DS9 episode "Hard Time." Tarka and his friend, Oros were prisoners at a work camp run by the Emerald Chain. As in "Hard Time," Oros was already there when Tarka was detained. The two gradually bond over science, particularly over the digits of the Golden Ratio. They use their engineering powers to develop an interdimensional transporter. It fails and alerts the guards. As in "Hard Time," Tarka betrays Oros, this time by having previously told the guards and Osyraa that he would tell them what Oros was working on, in exchange for freedom. As in "Hard Time," Oros forgives his friend. Though Tarka defeats the guards, Oros is severely injured so he begs Tarka to make a break for it. That was the last Tarka saw of him. He's returned every year since, hoping for any sign that Oros is even alive, or if he managed to make any progress traveling to an alternate universe. One major difference from "Hard Time," is that Tarka is the calming influence, rather than the veteran prisoner.
It certainly doesn't excuse anything that he's done. It would be fruitful to contrast this with J'Vini from "Choose to Live," who was intent on saving a species, leading her to kill Starfleet officers to get dilithium. Burnham wanted justice served, despite her and Tilly helping J'Vini save that species. She had to settle for turning her over to Ni'Var. At this point, Burnham only knows that Book and Tarka did not comply with the conditions Book agreed to. Before "All In," she thought Tarka coerced him. Now, she probably has to assume that Book lied to her. It's kind of the opposite side of the coin.
Why are people reading the Tarka relationship as purely platonic? Don't they go from separate beds to sharing a single bed? And then there's all that homoerotic subtext... come on.
To me, the tell/ not tell question is a slam dunk to me: the crew has the right to have a homeworld to come back to. As long as you feel you can get away with it, in these circunstances you lie if you need to.Apologise later if you feel you need to, but do whatever you need to do to save the people on these two planets.
And the shore leave banter felt like the kind of thing this crew does on a regular basis during crunch time.
Also, the barrier in ST V is, IIRC correctly, in the center o the galaxy. Discovery went through the barrier around the edge. The one from the second TOS pilot, and later in the "By any other name". I don't know wether any other hero ship in the franchise ever went there.
I wonder if they know of these events Kirk and Spock went through after they left?
The only way I see this mystery pay off is if they introduce to us an alien species that becomes important and iconic in the long term: Borg, dominion, Q, etc. I don’t want anything resolved in a neat little bow. Like sure, resolve the Earth/Ni’Var/Titan threat. But I would love a new established recurring presence in the universe that isn’t fixed in one episode by some cheap easy answers trick, which seems to be the trouble with this mystery box format.
Was that the galactic barrier in ST:V? I mean, I know there's a barrier around the edge of the galaxy (the galactic barrier) and there is a barrier around the center of the galaxy (the barrier from ST:V) but are they the same barrier? I dunno. ST:V was a weird one.
Ahhh yes Discovery boldly going where TOS and TNG already went and trying to pretend they were first.
It's not just a reason for Tarka to get the power source.
I'm willing to bet it's also a reason to bring back The Guardian of Forever.
The Guardian removing semi-villains or anti-heroes from this here universe and putting them in another has established precedent in Discovery, after all.
Hypothesis: however the 10C situation may be resolved, someone may find that Tarka still being around is politically/diplomatically inconvenient/unacceptable/casus belli. Multiple parties claiming the right to put him on trial after executing him. So the president and/or the admiral, or perhaps even just the captain on her own, find a way to smuggle Tarka to the Guardian's planet and off he goes.
In my brain, they beam down, Carl does his whole suddenlty-appearing-behind-them trick, perhaps with Burnham already giving a subtle hint that she is expecting that (I bet she'd totally get off on really surprising Tarka). And after Carl's game of being cryptic and in a coat, she prompts him "Do the thing". Carl: "What thing?" Burnham: "Oh, you know what I mean. The thing." Tarka: "Who the heck is this?!"
And he does the thing. Maybe without an exploding doorway. Or something else that shouldn't be out there in the snow exploding. LIke a table. Or mirth.
The Great Barrier from Star Trek V is not the same as the Galactic Barrier from Where No Man Has Gone Before, By Any Other Name, and this season of Discovery.
Sybok was trying to get to the center of the galaxy (which we now know is a very bad idea because there ain’t gonna be no Sha Ka Ree there, just a big honkin’ black hole), while the Galactic Barrier is at the edge of the Milky Way.
Apparently there are just a lot of barriers in the galaxy.
I loved this episode, but... did anyone else notice that moment in one of the flashbacks where Oros was crunching numbers on his holo tricorder and the VFX team seemingly forgot to add the tricorder screen? Took me out of the story for a bit.
it feels to me like every time they attempt to flesh out the discovery bridge crew and build the kind of relationship that we're used to with previous star trek shows, it feels really forced like the scene you discussed in this episode. its very frustrating that they cant seem to get it right when it came so naturally in other star trek shows!!
Good morning Jessie, I agree it was better then last week in some ways BUT SHIPS FIRING AT EACH OTHER that is cool. As for the Tarka story It was ok But I didn't feel for him he is a man not to be trusted. I hope Book restrains him and takes him into the Federation for trial. Book said he would face the music for his part in what they did. I am interested in seeing what is on the planet next week. IT IS A PENAL COLONY full of bad aliens FROM species 10 - C point of view BUT COULD be allies to the Federation. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this episode.
I just got the first 2 seasons from the library and it’s a slog to get through the first season does it get better or am I wasting my time?
Keep watching. It gets better.
@@plewis6787 any episodes I can skip?
Disco first season follows that time honored Trek pattern (lower decks is the exception to the rule) The first season will be rough. It took till mid season 2 to get me well and truly hooked
@@capturedsoulsphotos my executive disfunction is kicking my ass
so, are michael burnham and laira rillak hooking up now or what?
The barrier in star trek 5 is at the CENTER of the galaxy, this one is at the OUTSIDE 😊
Star Trek V was the Galactic Core, so not sure if it has the same hazards as the barrier
I'm anxious to meet Species 10-C so this episode I was hoping to see them or at least learn something more about them. However, I do think this episode was necessary for character development. It was good that Tarka's character got flushed out more. He's not a dastardly evil scientist, but I still don't trust him.
It was good to see the President and Burnham find common ground. It showed growth on Burnham's side.
I can't help but wonder if this is going to end with Book going to this other dimension with Tarka. I still have my fingers crossed that they (Book and Burnham) can reconcile.
How many seasons do you need for character development? We should know more about these people by now, the fact that we don't is down to poor writing and story telling
@@AndrewWilliams-eh1nh The character development I was referring to was Tarka. He's a new character this season, so yes, there is going to be character development of his character. We got more on his backstory. That's not bad writing - that's good. We also got to see growth in the relationship of Burham and the President. That's also good. And we already know plenty about the main characters, so I'm not sure what more from them you want to know.
We saw the ferengi again. I want to hear them speak! It would also be intersting if it was female so we can see how ferengi culture developed.
I agree that the Tarka story was the strongest part of this. What I don't get is why they haven't just dribbled it out to us over the whole season, or dedicated an entire episode to it earlier in the season. If they were going to _show_ us his backstory, why did they even bother just telling us about it before? Why make him mysterious and shadowy if you're only going to try to humanize him later?
Oh, and Sybok found a way through the Great Barrier at the centre of the galaxy, not the Galactic Barrier at the edge of the galaxy.
I actually think the Tarka plot might get flipped on its head, or I hope, at least. I'm expecting that they have built him up to be the one who ultimately gets betrayed in the end, or has somehow misunderstood what's happening. Perhaps someone else got through the portal, perhaps the universe on the other side isn't what was expected, perhaps theres more to his friend than it appears, or maybe some combination of these. It would be too simple to just turn him badder after this, he makes more sense morally grey-ish. Perhaps we get sort of a twilight zone type scenario where he gets to the other side and either realizes that homeboy had a different idea of paradise than him, or that paradise has changed him, or that the universe had a different idea of paradise than they assumed when they made N = Paradise in their Holo-calc.
Loved to see Osric Chau from Supernatural as Oros! I didn't see anything romantic in this relationship though.
remember Babylon 5? ... Now they are going beyond the rim.
I hope they will get to the point sometime soon. Dragging out this “mystery” from episode 1 till the very end is tiresome and frustrating. At this point I couldn’t care less about Tarka’s backstory or Saru’s romantic adventures, this can all be dealt with later. 🙄 This puts such a downer on the story, Tarka’s backstory was wonderful really, but it’s overshadowed by the need to know what’s really going on and the writers shoot themselves in the foot. Next season I’ll just watch it all backwards 😎
It feels like they’re stalling and stalling and stalling. 😡
I loved cybog too, the movie is a bit wacky, but he isso well played, and its an interesting way how he is very uderstandabl and not evil but unifies with, a cult , but well intended if ultimately bad. And especially it u used explore tthe main trio and pain, which i very real.
Also yes tng was te best, klingons and cardasian politics aside, with charactersmeeting weird things. I was diapointed season 2 wasnt that wholly.
can't watch this yet, I'm still behind on episodes. Just want to leave a comment for the engagement / algorithm thing
Theories of Tarka engaged in some narcissistic selfcest have been amusing. I would have laughed if they went there, but I'm glad that they didn't.
As a science quibble - if the combined energy of geothermal + a warp core was enough to power the interdimensional transporter, there's no reason why it would have taken him so long, or need something so massiive as the DMA source. Surely a star would yield more than even a powerful planet. He's got access to antimatter, and isolineum that can blow holes in spacetime.
But yes, I am here for the weird Trek tech
It was a nice wish-fulfillment fantasy to see so many conflicts resolved and people affirming each other. I still think Earth President is styled to call-to-mind President Coin from hunger games and other stern redheads in order for it to be subversive when she turns out to be a worthy leader and not evil. Oh, I would be so mad if she's evil. I'm ok with Tarka and Oros going away and taking all other Iron-Man "Me traumatized smart boy allowed to be rude to all you inferiors"-type guys away from the rest of us who also have trauma and awkwardness but also don't feel entitled to impatiently use other people.
For me this episode kinda lifted Disco S4 out of of the miry clay. They went back to the character building back story / flashbacks that, imo, adds a bit of weight to the 'experience'.
Wait up, not enough time to rewatch Picard S1! Too much Trek, what the heck?! How’s that possible. A very very few things in life seem to be going well anyway.
I always wondered who the diehard fans of Star Trek Discovery are, that it kept going into its forth season. Because people were paying to see this, right?
I still don't like it, at all, because every time Burnham begins to whisper dramatically, I have to roll my eyes or laugh, as another rushed, emotional non-payoff is coming. And in fact, I keep watching specifically to mock with my friends how silly it is in its writing, but I guess I can now at least kind of understand what people get from it. I don't agree at all, I find the tugging at heartstrings really inefficient, but perhaps we are just a too jaded lot.
That crew remembrance scene was cringey, totally agree with you as it pulled me out of the story too. It seemed to give the (mostly silent largely unknown bridge) crew some extra backstory but that’s just lazy storytelling or tightass contracting of the actors. Overall it’s good but I feel like the writers are in too much of a bubble, their ideas and character development are solid but they don’t have enough good editors. Cut baby, cut.
i thought this was an ok episode. While I appreciate finding ot more about Tarka and his backstory/motivations, I felt like this was an attempt at making him a more likable character in the show...but it didnt work for me
Decent episode. I didn't read the relationship as amorous. A deep friendship under horrible circumstances!
Btw *where are the Klingons* ?
Shhhhhh🤫 don’t say the K word at least when it comes to Discovery.
(Whispering and tiptoeing away from this comment)