Bedrock and Betrayal: The Tommyinnit - Technoblade Parallel | A Dream SMP Video Essay
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- Опубликовано: 23 июл 2024
- Technoblade and Tommyinnit: Two of the most beloved (and controversial) characters to ever grace the glorious Minecraft-hamilton-block-roleplay stage that is the Dream SMP. Often at odds, they're considered by many to be complete opposites. But are they really all that different?
Let's find out.
Back around January or February, directly after the events of the Doomsday war on the Dream SMP, I wrote a short (or so I thought) video essay script comparing the characters of Tommyinnit and Technoblade. Actually making it was a lot easier said then done considering I have next to zero video editing experience, but here I am, four months too late and six steps behind, with my take on the characters.
00:00 Intro
2:35 I Love Summaries
5:55 History Rhymes
8:56 Anagnorisis
12:11 Coping With Reality
14:00 An Act Of Rebellion
16:05 The Jack Manifold Grind Never Stops
CREDITS BELOW
MC Clips used come from these creators! (special thanks to Eret for doing that post- L'manburg - destruction flyover, it saved my life.)
Tommyinnit: / @tommyinnit
Technoblade: / technothepig
Tubbo: / tommyinnit
Wilbur Soot: / wilburplays
Eret: / eretvr
Undertale Soundtrack: tobyfox.bandcamp.com/album/un...
Minecraft Soundtrack: c418.org/albums/minecraft-vol...
Sad-ist: / sadistkar
-----------------
I hope you enjoyed the video or at least found this interpretation of the characters and their dynamic to be interesting. This has been consuming all of my time and mental energy and finally getting it done is so rewarding, regardless of if anyone watches it. :)
#Tommyinnit #Technoblade #DreamSMP #Minecraft #SMP #DreamTeam #MinecraftTheory #MinecraftLore #dreamsmpvideoessay #videoessay #Dream 
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I feel like the main problem was that they never had a real conversation about their goals and how they collided. Tommy always brushed off Techno’s talks about anarchy and Techno practically didn’t hear when Tommy would talk about taking L’Manburg back. They both ignored each other in order to get what they wanted. Techno wanted camaraderie out of Tommy (which, while nice and all, was ignorant given he avoided the main thing that divided them,) and Tommy wanted Techno’s power to take back what he saw as rightfully his.
Both of them were so blinded by their goals that they found the full potential of their relationship was blocked from their lack of communication, much less understanding.
Even during the Pogtopia arc, it seems Wilbur, Tommy, and Techno, while acknowledging, still ignore each other’s end goals, practically seeing it as something that’ll work itself out in the end. But it’s what caused everything to go wrong.
Techno felt betrayed by Tommy because he ignored him, creating another government, and Tommy felt betrayed by Techno because he destroyed everything he worked for, only for his own benefit and emotional satisfaction. Similarly, Tommy felt betrayed by Wilbur pressing the button, despite knowing what he was going to do. He chose to ignore it because he didn’t want it to cause any problems before the war against Manburg. In the end, it’s what caused him that feeling of betrayal.
It was their own ignorance that caused their grief, yet they ignore even that. They continue to antagonize each other, blaming anyone but themselves to justify their own actions. They never take responsibility, because it was, “All for the cause.”
Small inconsistency, Tommy knew Wilbur *wanted* to press the button but not that he knew what he was going to do it. Wilbur told everyone that if the final siege on Manberg did not succeed he would blow it up. Which he lied and blew it up anyways after it was reclaimed.
Wilber also said on the podium "he learned a thing or two from techno" paraphrasing so Tommy should have known something was up
Well said
@@austinmodeen7108
it was a scripted plot twist, neither the audience or the characters expected it to happen
seconds after Wilbur made Tubbo president, besides since when is Wilbur, Tommy's responsibility
@@lemsavage9473 Your right it was scripted I forgot that but while watching it for the first time something seemed off then Wilber also walked away (I didn't know the button was were he was walking to though because techno pov)
The real villain here is miscommunication.
truuuuuue
miscommunication stopped talking after you said that.. kinda sus
And perhaps, the voices
Isnt always been for our world/reality, too?
more like lots of people purposefully ignoring the same guy over and over lol
and a very selfish child, lmao
this video changed my perspective on the entire situation.
tommy didnt just betray techno, he simply chose forgiveness over his revenge.
techno didnt just betray pogtopia, he simply chose his beliefs over allies
I am so happy that somebody understands that Tommy's betrayal was never about Technoblade personally
It's interesting that their own ways of coping with their own betrayals feed each other's reason. Techno's victim complex is validated by Tommy's characterization of him as cruel and unfeeling. And Tommy's characterization of Techno is fueled by Techno's refusal for emotional vulnerability because of his victim complex.
Another thing I wanted to mention is that Tommy in the stream where he visited Las Navadas is able to at the very least admit to himself that he betrayed Technoblade. I wonder if Techno is gonna start having a similar character arc and if they will actually reconcile. I wonder if Wilbur or Dream coming back is gonna be the catalyst for something like that. Since Wilbur's return seemed to be the catalyst for Tommy's realization and assumed planned character arc.
* i wanna note that i use the term "victim complex" in a very verbatim sense, not like a medically defined victim complex (something i would apply instead to characters like jack manifold), i hesitate to throw the term around because it *is* a real thing and people can get kind of pissy if you use it the wrong way lmao
@@promsofa3984 oh yeah definitely I was using it in the way that you used it in the video and assumed that that would be the context it would be read in. My bad if I used it wrong but yeah victim complex in the verbatim sense
@@alexishavingfun6831 probably not technoblade was happy and laughed upon hearing of Tommy's last cannon death
@@austinmodeen7108 I don't quite remember that can you provide.an example of that since he didn't seem happy as much as he seemed indifferent.
Tommy and Technoblade are my favorite people to watch(especially techno) and I thought the same thing. They are so similar but, north doesn’t attract another north.
That’s deep I love the metaphor
I was a techno apologist, but this video has given me so much clarity that just makes their whole story so much more sad because they have both been betrayed and are sad but can't see that theyve hurt each other. I literally got chills from this it deserves do much more recognition
The real deal is being both a c!tommy apologist *AND* a c!techno apologist, the struggle is real
@@alineSann bro same.. :(
I think this is well put together despite my disagreements about Techno and Pogtopia's relationship during the revolution arc!
i figured a lot of people would disagree with me in that respect. one of the reasons i love techno's character so much is that he's simultaneously very self aware and an incredibly unreliable narrator, meaning interpretations of his motivations and character can go in any direction!
I like to also point out, not for either side that that revolution was not to instate democracy, after the elections it was revolt, then a appointed dictatorship, similar how Wilbur was a dictator before making it look democratic. Also Techno always refers to Tommy from the revolution end phase as Theseus
@@enderarcturus8420 Literally all of the L'manberg citizens wanted Wilbur as president, just because he made a joke about "not being democratic" and critics from OUTSIDE OF L'MANBERG at the time doesn't undermine Tommy's Belief in Liberty any less.
@@Emma-eq8pm thank you, someone agrees with me
Technoblade: so this guy just hides in my house, doesn't tell me why, steals from me and after I finally start to trust him he betrays me for Mr. Government
Tommy: so I was Very traumatized and hid in this guy's house to avoid Dream, he found out and we kinda had to get along but I chose my friend over him
*cue yelling over falling tnt*
(your take is honestly the best one I've heard about them, feels great to see character analysis instead of Who Is The Bad Block Man Here, also your jokes are hilarious, keep it up)
i am at a loss for words. this was so well put together, serious, humorous, insightful and it made perfect sense! this was SOOOOO GOOD PROM!!!
"because im a world where violence has been established as the universal language , embracing forgiveness and empathy is an act of rebellion" - which coincides with both there morals/goals , rebellion against tyranny , to have freedom , favorite quote of the video and awesome video! I thought it was really well put together , I bet if you keep at it you could make it on here
That last part about the universal language is violence and that forgiveness is a rebellion gave me chills! This was so good!!
SAME
>forgiveness is the true act of rebellion
>rebellion=fighting the establishment
>que technoblade trying to speed run his and Tommy's redemption/forgiveness arcs
Tommy apologist and dedicated enjoyer here
(I use the term apologist loosely here to mean this characters actions are forgivable due to their circumstances and/or intentions then this character did nothing wrong/this character was right)
I am less frustrated with Technoblade's character himself but how the fandom reacts the Techno. I was frustrated when people were saying that doomsday was a good thing, without taking into account Niki, Jack Manifold, Tubbo, Karl, Eret, Puffy, Ghostbur and many other innocents who were heavily negatively affected by the event. I was frustrated artwork and animatics' comments were flooded with arguments about Techno. I was frustrated that the people took Techno's interpretation of past events as objective. It infuriates me that there were Techno apologists that flooded the TommyVODS comments calling him a bad character, no development, bad writing (with many of the arguments that were made by C!Techno ) to the point where there were dedicated positive comments to drown it out. The worst of it was the underhanded apologism that trauma made Tommy incapable of logical thought, which was really shitty towards people with actual trauma. It's the part of the fandom I considered the most toxic and it soured my opinion of Techno fans and Technoblade as a whole.
I've learned to be less negative towards those people for a while and this video helped me see the other point of view.
It's refreshing that this Essay focuses on how each character's relationship the other rather then morality.
The only thing I really want everyone to understand is it isn't about what they said to each other or how they treated each other, they genuinely loved each other's company.
*Tommy's betrayal wasn't a personal attack against Techno.*
That weather Tommy chose Tubbo or Techno, he was going to be screamed at by the fandom, taken as negative character development as betraying the other side being called a bad friend and a selfish prick.
I am so glad I clicked on this video. I've always been a c!techno apologist, and this really helped me see both sides of the story although I still think techno is mostly in the right (or, I should say, I sympathize with him more and think he's less in the wrong)... AHEM ANYWAYS this video is incredible and possibly my favorite video essay. The way you told the story is immaculate and actually made me tear up, but maybe that's just me and my godawful mood swings.
It's not just you.
Yeah even though I think Techno is in the wrong for choosing violence and being unconfrontational to Pogtopia about his beliefs (though he mentions them a lot he never actually talks to Pogtopia about how his ideals collide with theirs, though it works vise versa with them as well), he's my go-to streamer and I'm biased sooo sorry Tommy
Honestly I'm usually more on tommy's side, (likely due to having more similar viewpoint and watching his streams more often, get on that techno) but honestly this whole arc was heart wrenching with how difficult it is to see either side as right, it's morally grey and there's no hero or villain present anywhere
I mastered the ability of being a c!Techno and c!Tommy apologist at the same time, most because i watched both perspectives (Along side Will's) this video felt like it was mde for me honestly, i hope people can see this video and what it means.
( *scared tommyinnit fan noises* )
This has big underrated energy.
Seriously, super high quality analysis and video here! Needs more views
I’m in love with how you never painted either as ‘right’ or ‘wrong’, as that doesn’t justify their actions
This definitely has been enhanced considering that c!Tommt admitted (on his own volition at that) that he betrayed Techno
They’ve both done wrong things no matter whose streams you watch from, and nothing will change that
I am in awe of this video. This deserves so much more love. I'd love to see more.
“Because in a world where violence has been established as the universal language, embracing forgiveness and empathy is an act of rebellion.”
That. That’s a quote for the ages. That there is a quote I’m not going to forget anytime soon. Damn.
On a less awestruck note, this is one of the first times I’ve heard Techno’s betrayal of Pogtopia explained so clearly. It’s crystalline here, that he was the betrayer back then. I knew that, of course, but I had only just started watching the smp at the time. I was a newer viewer who didn’t have the full picture. I knew he’d betrayed them, but I’d never noticed how closely it mirrors Tommy’s betrayal before Doomsday. I’ve never seen anyone bring up that parallel before, and I applaud you for bringing it up so eloquently.
Also hot damn that last line is a banger quote.
I love that last line "in a world where violence is the universal language forgiveness is rebellious" that line literally gave me chills
this reminds of the time when techno started blaming Tommy for putting Tubbo as president, even though it was Wilbur that did that and saying that he just wants power even though he like 5 minutes just didn't want to be president.
Sorry let me send this to all the people who yell “C!TOMMY WAS RIGHT” and “C!TECHNO WAS RIGHT” so they can just shush for a bit.
Excellent!! I never watch video essays, seriously never--this is probably the first dsmp video essay I've seen and I've been in the fandom since October. I thought you made a very good analysis and your video was edited and voiced brilliantly. I've seen possibly every iteration of c!Techno and c!Tommy discourse in the book, but your take felt fresh and kept my attention well. I think you've put together an extremely good analysis that does a lot of justice for both their characters, seeing both their sides on the matter.
I kind of remain a tommy apologist because he fell in with Techno when he was at his most vulnerable, while Techno apologists refuse to accept that the voices are a weakness that make him both destructive and vulnerable. I'm curious how techno himself intends the voices to be seen, and if maybe it's all just a big meta reference
This got me cry, and I lobe the analysis you've done here! Their relationship is complicated, they act like brothers even without blood relation (I'M HERE FROM SBI FANCLUB OK)
I'd love to see their conversation after all that had happened lately! Thank you for that, you've done great
The final speech at the end was well put together and very though provoking
I deny it all I want but deep down I do want them to go through massive character development and make up
People describe their betrayals as insurmountable and that they’ll never see eye to eye but I really see it as a possibility in the future
I feel the exact same way about jack. Honestly just a tragic character who’s always being pushed to the side despite his desire for simple recognition.
You have gain a sub, and I’m waiting for the jack vid. :)
Anyone gonna call out the Dream has literally be part of the events that cause these betrayals and in the first place whispering in people’s ears like the devil on your shoulder or is that just me?
If you mentioned the part where Technoblade continued talking about his ideals which is anarchy in the time line of pogtopia while being ignored by his fellow revolutionaries, you would mention this as Pogtopia betraying Technoblade but since no one ever heard Technoblade other than the viewers themselfs, this can be considered a semi-betrayal as Techno somewhat knew that they would make another government as he helped them when he could've destroyed the government itself with Wilbur.
As someone who’s been on Techno’s side most of the time, this video definitely helped me understand the disc betrayal from Tommy’s perspective better. Though I’m still more empathetic with Techno’s reaction than Tommy’s I’ve definitely gained more sympathy
"Because in a world where violence has been established as the universal language, embracing forgiveness and empathy... is an act of rebellion."
- Promsofa
I can't think of words to describe this quote right now, but just know that it's up there with Techno's in my mind for eternity.
Wilbur himself resigned as president and declared Schlatt the victor in the election, so there's really no case that he was the rightful leader of Manberg. If pooling votes was against the law, then Wilbur wouldn't have consented to it. Even if Wilbur was the rightful leader, he doesn't have the right to hand off the title to Tommy or Tubbo after reinstating himself. Normally after a democratic revolution you have new elections, but they never did that, so when Techno says their war amounted to a hostile coup, he is literally correct. Techno also never hid his agenda during the war, he was always an anarchist and worked with them in order to take down Schlatt. He even went so far as to influence Wilbur, who stated when he refused the presidency at the end of the war that he didn't believe in government anymore. So in the end two out of three founders of Pogtopia were opposed to reestablishing a government.
The Pogtopia arrangement was clearly a matter of interests aligning in opposition to Schlatt. It wasn't a matter of personal loyalty and friendship really, just necessity. So betrayal there was really a matter of "betraying" Pogtopia's goals in the war - which were what? This is stated in different ways throughout the arc, and as I mentioned, 2/3 of the founders ended the war as anarchists, making Tommy the odd one out, not Techno. So the break down in the alliance there is just a matter interests diverging after they brought down Schlatt. While there may be bad blood, neither side "betrayed" the other because the immediate goal was attained.
Compare this to Tommy and Techno's alliance later on. Both are exiled from L'manberg, but you can't really say their interests align. Techno's immediate goal is to commit terrorism on L'.manberg. Tommy's immediate problem is that Dream is torturing him, and he needs to hide with Techno to escape Dream. It's not like Techno needs Tommy to blow up L'manberg. Indeed, he runs a great risk of making Dream an enemy by siding with Tommy. And Tommy's secondary goal, retrieving his disk, doesn't matter to Techno either. So really their interests don't align at all. Tommy is way more trouble than he's worth, but Techno accepts him in his home anyways. By the end of their alliance, Techno demonstrated intense loyalty to Tommy, ultimately standing up to Dream and the entire server in order to protect him. Tommy on the other hand, turned his back on Techno at that very moment. For him, his alliance to Techno was just a matter of necessity, the same way the original alliance was, and once interests divurged, once he gave up on the disks and rejoined L'manberg, he no longer felt any obligation towards Techno.
This is the reasons why it's not accurate to say that Tommy is an idealistic or stubborn person because he is actually quite wishy washy about his priorities. Does he want to disks or not? Does he care about L'manberg or not? One moment he is taking hostages and spawning withers in the center of town, the next he joins their side against Techno. One moment he is fighting Tubbo in the community house, the next they are back to being friends. One moment, he is desperately trying to get his disks back, then he lets them fall into Dream's hands. This is his main difference from Techno. Techno surrendered himself to save a horse. He would fight 10 to 1, 20 to 1, or 30 to 1 odds to uphold a promise he has made.
The other fundamental difference is that Tommy is not nearly as vengeful as Techno. Techno's intitial attack on L'manberg wasn't so much because it was undemocratic, but because it used him to establish a government, which is the last thing he wanted. Like I said, it's not really a betrayal, because no one ever promise Techno they wouldn't establish a government. More than anything, it was just offensive to him, and he lashed out. Tommy has never done anything quite like that, and after participating in Techno's 'minor' attacks on L'manberg it's clear that he felt bad about it, and that's what motivated his return to L'manberg even though they were the ones who threw him out. Once Techno believes he has been mistreated he has no sense of proportionality in dealing out punishment. Tommy on the other had rarely goes in for revenge. He is not among the various characters who seek out retirbution all the time such as Quackity. We should remember that even after Techno blew up L'manberg, Tommy was the one who wanted to try and team up with him against Dream just prior to being exiled. He also forgives Tubbo for exiling him and has shown remarkably little hatred toward Techno too, despite the fact that L'manburg is only a crater now.
I think you’re making Techno the villain for the Manberg-Pogtopia part but that’s because I am a Techno-supporter. So really, I think You did a good job by showing the betrayed’s perspective each time.
This was sooooo good! I really love Techno's character, and bc c!Tommy's action never fail to annoy me (i acknowleadge that he has his own point of view, it's just a personal preference for characters) I found it very hard to look at the betrayal situations from c!Tommy's perspective. The mention of c!Technoblade's coping mechanism reminded me of when in first syndicate meeting, he learned about c!Tommy's death. It always felt weird to me, that he laughed it off, but now i realized, that his stubborness and this 'victim complex', prevented him from empthatizing with the situation. Anyway, i loved this video!
One very small thing I'd like to note which I disagree with the video is about Technoblade's core belief.
I would say Techno's core belief is "freedom through individuality", which in order makes him an anarchist, but that's just a byproduct of his core belief.
when they said “for lack of a better term” this is probably the term they wished they had lmao, you described it perfectly
I think Techno is willing to be the bad guy to help his friends. He sees government as the main reason for destroyed friendships and wars, so he will die a villain to help others.
I've always sympathized with the 2. But I didn't really know how to feel about their... relationship(???). But this definitely helps me understand it.
"Embracing forgiveness and empathy, is an act of rebellion" I got goosebumps
i love that you were a meme channel for a while and now suddenly you're making these masterpieces
holy crap this was so professionally made my jaw literally dropped when i found out you only had 100 subs
this was so goood! the quote at the end was probably my favorite part
Hello! This is great! I personally think that during the revolution, Technoblade started the day trying take down the government, and ended the day trying to take down the government. So rather, he was betrayed by everyone else because he never switched sides. But he can't be considered the good guy, I think his character has reason to be upset at the world. I really like your style, I think its really funny and I admire you very much! :DD
Pogtopia never switched sides either though. The primary goal of them was to always reinstate a goverment and throw out the schlatt administration. While Techno said that he was in it to destroy government, he was still actively aiding in taking over a government
This video is really good and it’s quite interesting to watch how their relationship progressed and still progressing despite to the fact that there were no interactions between c!tommy and c!techno for months. Especially with c!Tommy’s acknowledgement that he betrayed Techno (he mentioned it on his Las Nevadas streams) and ‘Techno is in prison? No, I am not going there….. But it’s Techno though, he is sorta like family, you know”. Wonder how it will play out in the future.
YOOOOOOOO LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOO i love how this is broken down :'D
P.S i was waiting for u to mention JackManifold somewhere LOLL
Took so long for someone to realize that both sides, the anarchist porkchop and child both made their motivations clear in the revolution
This video hits particularly hard after Tommy basically admitted he thinks he betrayed Techno during his trip to Las Nevadas with Wilbur. Very well put-together video; I would encourage you to keep up the great work :D
Wow. Just. Wow.
This here. This is so gratifying. The bedrock bois dinamyc are one of my favorites in the smp (yes I am in denial of the sbi not being canon) and I never quite actually got why exactly. The story doesn't favor them. Your point of view, this video itself was so perfectly put and made me realize what answer I was looking for. The cycle of betrayal and history repeating may be only serve as an excuse from both parts, but it's real. It's there. And we keep defending, trying to look at the right side, but the truth is there is no right side. At least until now, where we barely grasped at the growth of these characters as a whole. I think what shocked me was that ending - wow, again. I really liked how you made your point and gave realization about the meaning of what would be if the lore went that way - a rebellion of the "moral" sense of the smp, as you said. Maybe I'm just using too many fancy words so what I want to say is I really hope they explore what you've said. It would be truly appreciated by us, as a fandom, getting to hold on to the self growth and stop this cycle of history repeating itself. Great video, it was really funny too!
Speaking of the characters, Tommy looked up to Wilbur and Technoblade for a long time. He eventually became his own person, but obviously a lot of his decisions and passions started based on theirs. For example, Wilbur cared about L'Manburg so Tommy did too. That is why the recent livestream where Wilbur tells Tommy he never truly cared about L'Manburg shocked both Tommy and the viewers. Tommy died for L'Manburg multiple times. He betrayed Technoblade to stand by Tubbo and L'Manburg. He cared about it because he cared about Wilbur's dream...and it was all for nothing? Tommy has something Wilbur and Technoblade lack, though, and that is growth. He recently finally confessed to betraying Technoblade and expressed his regrets. Technoblade has never done that. He has always put his beliefs before people. Long ago Ranboo said he chooses people, not sides, and I think Tommy feels that way too now after everything he has gone through. He chose Wilbur over Quackity and Las Nevadas even though Quackity could offer riches, security, and basically a paradise because he didn't want to lose any more family. I love all the characters in the Dream SMP because of how much depth there is and I love videos like this for making me think about it.
I just rewatched this video after the recent lore livestreams and came across this comment I left. I realised that Wilbur is now trying to convince Tubbo that he is creating a paradise which is very interesting to me. He wants to have a perfect land where everyone wants to be. He wants a paradise. He can't stand that Quackity has one and that so many people are standing by him.
He also told Tubbo he lied when he told Tommy he never cared about L'Manburg.
@@LaurenTheorist
Tommy’s ideal is to protect and care for his friends and anything that connects into his friends.
That’s why he isn’t the best friend, Because if they drift away too much he starts idolizing memories Instead of the person.
Tommy never really cared about the discs until tuboo became President then started to drift away from him. He did don’t get me wrong but never to the point of fighting his friends over it, for example at one point he was going to get them both back but Wilbur told him it was going to make problems So he gave up his only chance to get back both discs.
He said it on multiple times before that the disc remind him of his times with tuboo and If he gets them both of them back all the conflicts will end.
The reason I brought this up it’s because it’s the same thing he did with L’manberg The memories of Wilbur made it worth protecting. You cannot say he Betrayed his ideals When he is single mind in the chasing his ideal The only difference he learns not to put memories over the real thing.
@@asura3229, I completely agree with you. I just said he betrayed Technoblade - which he did from Technoblade's perspective. I never said he betrayed his ideals.
@@LaurenTheorist This comment was not made for you I’m sorry
Oh, it's okay! I enjoyed reading your insights, anyways.
ive always been a huge c!techno apologist, mostly cuz i deeply relate to his character, but this really helped me see the other side of the story. also: literal chills. you recapped everything so well
YOOOO LOVED THIS!!!! genuinely my favorite video essay of the dream smp
I think Techno's ideals can still be considered freedom through community, it's just that he doesn't believe that a form of centralized hierarchy is necessary to have a thriving community.
The moment of clarity is called the anagorisis and I'm so glad you commented on it because it is one of, if not the, most important moments in a characters development.
here like months later but this was honestly a great video. in editing, script (your voice is very nice listen to), analysis, and humor, this was legitimately an amazing video.
In the end when you talked about how they don’t admit they were wrong and they want to believe there right is actually false. Techno almost immediately after decides that what he did is wrong and he doesn’t want to do it to anyone else again so he heads into exile to ignore wanting more revenge. Also tommy said it in his most recent lore stream. I know this came out after the vid but I felt like I should bring it up. Tommy said he admits he betrayed techno and he shouldn’t have done that. These show that they both were afraid of doing something like this again. Techno went into exile and tommy tried to prevent all communication with technoblade.
i actually do think the two can reconcile, their core beliefs are fundamentally very very similar and highly compatible. tommy believes that people make a community and freedom, and techno believes that the lack of authority allows for true freedom.
both can coexist quite peacefully, the syndicate is almost the embodiment of that. a group of people whom all share this sense of community and belonging, who coexist peacefully without an authoritative figure or group.
(here's my personal justification for why i interpreted the situation the way i did) he goes into exile but showed over and over again through both words and actions that he felt the destruction of l'manburg and it's fallout was deserved. i could also argue that the reveal of the wither (theseus?) room proves the retirement thing wasn't really true, as it had clearly been planned far in advance (and he says in the scene "let me show you something i haven't shown anyone, not even philza... as much as i talked about retirement (i have been working on a little hobby) ...
@@promsofa3984 To be fair the wither room could be seen as a self defense method in case the people of l'manberg tried to attack him, which is what happened.
@@linukahewagama4883 aren't wither's more of an offensive weapon then a defense?
@@lemsavage9473 When I say self defense I mean like Tubbo's nukes
Freedom through community vs freedom through independence is definitely an interesting way to look at it
I am a Techno apologist. He never did anything wrong. L'manberg? Never heard of her. Tommy is the only one who ever did anything wrong. Techno is pure and honest and perfect...
"Pussy Bitch Syndrome" Dear lord you have me in stitches, and I'd gladly cosplay with you at Geneva's Convention.
Jokes aside, this is probably one of the best DSMP Video Essays i have seen. Your character analysis was amazing. You were able to keep your head clear and look at the chaotic situations without siding with either of the characters and thus shed light on a parallel i had never even considered. I would love to watch you analyse the tragedy og Jack Manifold in the same way!
YOUR SCRIPT WAS FUXKING INSANE DUDE MASSIVE PROPS TO ALL THE EFFORT DONE YOU TOTALLY SMASHED IT
Wooo! Best take I've heard!! :) Really good video and well done! Especially like the "Resolution archs aren't required" because Some people overlook the fact that people don't need to connect with old friends turned enemies again in order to become better people. :) What I like about the plot at the moment is that Both characters have kinda sorts been distancing themselves from each other and no one's forcing an apology for the two, but their characters have still been undergoing character archs of their own and like- my personal preference is that the two of them will kinda end up like "hey I know you but you don't have to like me because I don't like you but we can be okay with that." but dfasfsdf I still love them bedrock boiisss. .holds onto their past positive interactions when they aren't screaming eachother.
When she said that embracing forgiveness and empathy is an act of rebellion, I audibly said OH SNAP.
AYYYYY great job making this video!
Honestly to me, from start to finish, both of them had done so much damage, that none of em can even count as right... Techno was the one who started it, but Tommy had his turn betraying Techno so....
It’s a mess, and an entertaining mess at that, so I’d rather just plop my popcorn and watch chaos ensue whenever they interact.
Also there’s the fact that they’re equally intense characters which means that whatever conflict they got is equally as fierce, but here’s the thing-
Tommy had recently acknowledged that he had betrayed Techno, and Techno had also acknowledged the damage that he’d done as he walked over the crater that he had made... But ironically, they both did it away from one another.
They’re starting to empathize but.. There are so many layers to this rocky relationship, that talking it out right now might not be an option, at least not yet.
Honestly, it’s so impressive how each one of those guys has a strong standing character that they’ve built, while the relationships are a whole new beast- You don’t just stop at interactions, you have to look into fundamentals and morals, and even then, there seems to be always more to the story than told, and I honestly live for that
can you link a clip or the stream timestamp of " Techno had also acknowledged the damage that he’d done as he walked over the crater that he had made... " Thanks alot if you do!
@@lemsavage9473 I can’t really remember but it was at the stream when he recruited Ranboo and took the Syndicate for their first mission
Had to walk through the crater to get to Snowchester’s entrance and he said it ironically, so I’m not certain either tbh
@@GoingSwimmingly thank you friend, that's all I need❤️❤️❤️🤝
I’m gonna be honest, good job. Good fucking job. Not for convincing me to change sides or even see it on a neutral basis, but for managing to give such strong and unbiased arguments for both sides and thus creating a video interesting to everyone.
(I am still strongly believing that Techno was 100% in the right, probably cause I only watch his POV)
This is the most unbias analysis I have seen. Bravo on the work!
Wow this is really well edited, very well written and very interesting to me, who is not even a dream smp fan
So... it only took going to hell and coming back for it to happen, but we're now seeing that massive character growth in tommy. Pogchamp?
Tommy’s character has begun to develop as he admits to betraying technoblade in his las navadas stream
bro, this analysis is so good. at some point i kept jumping back and forth between being a techno and tommy "apologist" if you can call it that and this video pretty much summarized what i was thinking. so good. also, I'd love to see a jack manifold analysis lol i don't know too much about his lore but didn't he drag himself out of the depths of hell??? I'd love to see what other people think about his character
as someone who hasnt watched the dream smp from the beginning, this was very helpful in understanding the nuances of the "bedrock duo" and im glad that i now have an amazing video essay i can link to ppl when someone tries to make it black and white. thank u for taking the time to make this and sharing us ur neutrality and good humor, ill stick around to see that kack manifold vid :)
I don't remember when pogtopia told Techno that they would make a new government...
I don't think they did
@@kellet-5746 so I feel like the point that techno knew is kind of null. One side can argue he did, one side can argue he didn't, we just don't know. Yet, I feel like a lot of the rhetoric of the video is based on this assumption that stayed unproven.
Same thing with Tommy. He didn't learn techno's plan until later in their collaboration. He didn't choose to side with techno even though techno would destroy l'manburg, he chose to side with techno before and froze in silence when techno told him.
This seems like an important thing to say, yet the video almost glosses on it
@@alexp6013 It really doesn't cover over that clearly important point, techno didn't know they were going to form a government and tommy just agreed to "minor" terrorism and nothing more
YOU BROKE THE COMPROMISE
TECHNO Tommy after leaving him
Good job, these two are a great example of a foil. Amazing video, you had great editing, great story, great mic quality, just an overall great job. (edit, just checked, no clue how you aren't in the hundred thousands yet)
9:15 OK THIS PART BLEW MY FRIKIN MIND HOW COULD I HAVE MISSED THAT HOLY CRAP
A small argument of technoblade and pogtopicia. Was he ever given a choice to be truly a person. Right as he joined the server he was hunted by every one but pog. In that way techno never had the option of leaving pog. It is true he made friends in pog but others in pog often treated him as an object of power instead of a person. One of the first thing he was given to do was farm potatoes and feed pog. He was just givin this position. After the first talks where arguably it was one sided because techno could leave their protection in that moment. He was ignored, he made railing to stop people from falling witch was short lived. He was transparent about his ideas of government in pog but no one listened. The times he was listened to was when he agreed with pog every thing else was forgotten. That's the difference in between techno's first betrayal and Tommy’s betrayal. Idk that's my interpretation of the pogtopicia arch for techno.
The same thing Tommy could not go anywhere else except to technoblade or he would have died.
they did not treat as an object of power “He” said they needed food nobody Asked him, nobody asked him for weapons ether. Tommy said the same thing, he looked Techno in the eyes and said “we will not destroy L’manberg and we will not hurt Tuboo” this is the quote verbatim then he was ignored.
They did the same thing. Reason I’m on Tommy’s side is because I agree with his motivation
prom my beloved... this is incredible
Thank you! I knew I couldn't be the only one who thought their actions were so similar. Also, on a meta level, both of them are kinda stuck with the blood lust and the troll bit because it's one of the most popular parts of their personas. So it's hard for the characters to be given growth while keeping the jokes going for the people watching. Especially since the Dream SMP isn't there only focus.
I don't know if they'll reconcile but it would be really enjoyable to watch. Tommy has admitted in one of the recent lore streams that he betrayed Technoblade and was in denial about it and he said he felt guilty using the Axe of Peace. Maybe him returning that to Techno would be the start of fixing things if they ever went down that road but I don't see any reason they would and Tommy didn't seem to want to do that even though he's acknowledged the part he played.
Personally, i think Technoblade is in the right. He tried everything before blowing up L'manburg. "What about when he shot tubbo?" Well, where was Tommy and Wilbur? Close enough to do something. He was pushed and pressured into the bombing.
Tommy on the other hand has literally been a pain and super self centered, even in SMP Earth! Tommy believes he is always right even when he has every sign pointing against it. Thats his Character Flaw. Technos flaw was developed over time, a trust issue.
Edit:Also, despite societal Norms, Anarchy does not equal Chaos, not in the context of Lmanburg. They could easily govern each other, what with their few numbers and overall good people.
i think part of that (the last part) was sort of my point. anarchy ≠ chaos, and so techno's choices to temporarily put anarchy on the backburner in favour of general destruction are a betrayal of self.
What are you talking about Tell me what did he do to convince any of them did he ever talk to them And he could’ve left it there was nothing stopping him I also believe Tommy is also wrong but why are you trying to make technoblade look good
About him being pressured that’s bullshit plain and simple he had a trident that he use right after they were about to attack him so he could’ve left with that or kill them Like what he did
this was SO good I just had to go to your channel to see what else you had and OH BOI what a suprise it was to see this is you first long video, keep on this, I love how you put all the things in order and explain what you have to say and give all the point you want to give and oh god keep on doing these things. Even if you do things that are not related to DSMP, I just want to see more of what you have
thank you! i do have some other DSMP stuff i want to do if i get the chance! although at this point it's very out of date (an analysis of c!jack's musical themes and how they connect to his character, and a quick video on why ponk's devolvment into a disciple of the egg following sam's torture of him exemplifies how the egg works) but still. i do want to make them at some point haha.
Techno was very transparent about his goal to destroy the government and that he was very against the idea of a government in general from the very beginning. His « revenge » may be a bit too much yea, but I wouldn’t call it unfounded or immature.
Even though I don't quite agree with every point in the video, I do with many, and I thank you for taking both sides into account. I've seen too many people look at things in a very one-sided way, never taking into account why the other party may feel hurt or betrayed. It's sad that despite how close they may have grown together, their relationship was always doomed to fail, because their core beliefs just don't align.
I reaaally hope at some point in the story they can get to talk to each other for real. A conversation where they both admit to their faults and shortcomings and say sorry for ehat they did to each other. After Doomsday they didn't seem to hate each other. Techno let Tommy take thing from him and didn't try to stop him, and Tommy invited Techno to his hotel inauguration that sadly never came to be. I have hope that, even if their relation never goes back to what it once was (because that would be extremely hard) they can be on good terms and have peace of mind.
Although i'm not sure of this, because as long as Techno is fine woth Dream, Tommy won't want to be near Techno... But one can hope
Yeah, Techno even said he respected Tommy's decision and I think Techno will betray Dream or just stop helping him for the very same reason he did with Pogtopia since he told Sam that he doesn't know why Dream is in the prison (though he might have been lying but no one has canonically told him what happened during the final disc war so I assume he was telling the truth) so he doesn't know Dream tried to take advantage of emotional attachments and take sway personal freedom on the server which would make him an enemy of the syndicate since even though Techno has teamed up with Dream and Wilbur in the past, they are both the people who are the biggest threat to anarchy on the server since they have both been shown to place a lot of value on power that they even hurt the people around they care for cuz of it (especially how Wilbur is with Tommy ). Once he learns about the reason of Dream's imprisonment and how he almost stole Steve then he would most likely choose not to help him or choose to not help him anymore than he already has.
@@justalula7151 if Dream is smart (which he certainly is) he should know that the best way to effectively have control over Techno would be by threatening or keeping Philza captive. He is the thing Techno cares most about, and if Techno is also smart (which he is), he should realize upon learning of Dream's plan before going to prison, that Phil is in danger and that he should cut ties with Dream to prevent something from happening to his best friend. He was already in a similar situation when Carl was the one in peril, but if it was Phil? It would be so much worse.
It would be interesting to see something like this unravel, with Techno eventually realizing that after helping Dream potentially escape prison and much more, that he was just putting the people he cares about in danger (poor Ranboo would also be included ln that list)
I always come back to this video every few months to just to lament over c!bedrock bros. Even though I’m not in the mcyt fandom anymore they still hold such a dear spot in my heart. (Anyways it’s a shame you never posted any other video essays, I remember back when this video came out I was really looking forward to more videos from you, since I really liked your voice, style of editing and humor)
Yooo amazing work for the editing and the essay like wow,,, you gain a new subscriber!
After seeing this I thought that the Egg arc could have done this fixing of friendship because they both where the only ones not effect by it
idk personally, egg arc had nothing to do with either character. egg arc focused on the fantastically complex friendships and falling outs of like six different characters against the backdrop of a creeping cult. i don’t think tommy and techno need to be inserted into every single arc available
okay that last quote was SMOOOTH OML-
HOW DID I MISS THIS WHEN IT CAME OUT THIS IS SO GOOD
I think that a fundamental difference between the two is that techno flat out told Tommy that he was going to destroy lmanberg, allowing Tommy to realize that he was going against his beliefs, while pogtopia kind of had this maybe/maybe not thing going, meaning it took dream’s goading for technoblade to fully understand just what was happening. Also if you look in the clip, techno sees Wilbur going to the button, so he knows that (in his views, maybe influenced by the victim thing) Wilbur is “on his side”
POG told him, tuboo told him Did you not watch the vods
I’ve been telling everyone for ages about why Tommy betrayed Technoblade and why neither was really the bad guy, but I never saw the parallel to Pogtopia Technoblade! This video is amazing!
it's just as techno said "Your using words but the thing about this world Tommy is that the only universal language is violence"
I dunno; yeah they're alike but Tommy's end usually is much worse because he's awful at being clear on his intent. During his thingio with Techno he said he'd help Techno, and didn't follow through, where Techno followed through with what he promised; overthrowing l'manburg's president. I dunno, L'manburg itself is a bit shady what with being created for a drug monopoly and a self appointed dictator wanting to run a sham election. Also, every time Techno is involved he supplies the stuff and it gets stolen so, :L
Ok one, THIS VIDEO IS VERY GOOD AND SO FUCKING UNDERRATED!!!!!
Ok two
I reallyyyy agree with the part about them getting some sort of resolution. Them coming together in some way. A pattern i noticed (and something you touched on) is that whenever techno and tommy DO team up, it is always for their own personal gain or motive. It would be really interesting to see a conflict occur where techno and tommy group together to complete a common goal. Where what the two characters want follow the same path. Some things that would likely have to happen for this to occur would be their current relationships either break or become less valuable. For tommy, I believe he’d have to have some kind of conflict with tubbo. My idea is more so just tubbo connects and hangs more with ranboo, and(as they have as of recently )they both agree to stay on neutral terms, but arent glued to one another like they used to be. This would be a struggle for tommy, since tubbo is one of his biggest motivations of his character. This then helps him connect with techno, allowing him to connect with a person again, especially someone who has similar destructive, stubborn tendencies as he does. And if they had a common goal, this would help them bond since there is no longer the conflict of their own ideals.
Now techno is the more interesting character here, imo. Philza. Philza. Philza. Ok so. Philza and techno are deeply bonded in the dsmp, and have been working together almost the entire time since phil was on the dsmp. Because of this, a lot of phils actions and beliefs are rooted from and encouraged by techno. I think that the conflict happening with wilbur gets to philza(or smth im kinda making this up as i go) But philza grows upset and angry at techno. say techno gets out of jail with philzas help, and techno wants philza to help him free dream. And philza, already conflicted with his allyship with techno, refuses to help him.
Techno would now lose one of his best friends and most worthy allyship on the server. Now say he does end up freeing dream, and dream being dream, begins manipulating techno for his abilities. Say they are secretly working together, and news of techno releasing dream gets across the smp, and now everyone is after techno and dream. I think at some point dream would do something once he’d get enough recources from techno that would give techno a feeling of clarity. He would get a moment of realization that dream is, you guessed it! A baad guy. He goes back to his home, and realizes that philza has left, along with taking most of his belongings. He now no longer has any allyships left. Dream doesn’t care much about him, taking as much as he could from techno, and knowing techno has lost his stuff. Philza has broken ties with techno and doesn’t care about him. Ranboo probably cares more about michael and tubbo than helping techno.
He doesn’t know what to do. He takes time to realise that he’s done many wrong things in the past, and wants to make things right, in some way.
And que in these two making up. Techno finds tommy, tommy not wanting anything to do with techno. He gives some kind of apology, and asks for tommys help, possibly about the revive book, since tommy is the only person on the smp whos been revived. (excluding like wilbur, since wilbur is like, crazy)
Tommy begins helping techno, cautiously, also wanting to fix all the wrong he’s done. I think he might have built up guilt that shows itself through other characters. Possibly that tubbo wouldn’t have gotten close to ranboo if tommy had been better to him. Maybe wilbur might not be as insane if tommy had been more of a leader and been there for wilbur. Even techno. He thinks that if he’d been a better friend to techno, that maybe dream would still be in prison, since techno wouldn’t have a motive to “betray” tommy in that way.
yadayadayada techno and tommy for the FIRST TIME apologize, get character development for remorse, and team up to complete a common goal
ive basically created an entire fanfiction here, but idrc since i really like this idea and would love to see this
Also I want to add smth that kind of annoys me: Which is techno doesn’t really change? I mean he hasn’t really developed as a character a whole lot. Like, after hearing about tommy losing his last life, he’s essentially just like “cool 😃 moving on” Like no.. they were good friends at certain times, I would hope for SOME kind of conflict of emotion?! Like YES techno’s character is very much a lack of emotion and un empathetic person, but I really hope for that characterization of techno opening up a little at some point
In fairness to Techno with this, While his primary goal during the Revolution arc was to overthrow JSchlatt, he did also state multiple times during it that his secondary goal was to get them to adopt his line of thinking. It wasn't him putting blinders on, it was him trying to change their opinions whether it worked or not.
I, Sadly, Cannot afford Tommy the same reasoning as during his time with Techno to get his disc back, While he did make it clear what his main goal was, he also did not really provide a secondary goal beyond that. It was all about the Disc to get one over on Dream.
And while Techno actively and stubbornly kept to his principles even while assisting Pogtopia (Even helping Wilbur to destroy L'Manburg after Wilbur figured it wouldn't work anymore), Tommy instead relented many of his principles by helping Techno spawn withers and cause anarchy in L'Manburg after he was exiled.
If anything, Techno was firmly rooted in what he eventually wanted done while Tommy flopped to one opposing side and the other.
Tommy’s ideal is to protect and care for his friends and anything that connects into his friends.
That’s why he isn’t the best friend, Because if they drift away too much he starts idolizing memories Instead of the person.
Tommy never really cared about the discs until tuboo became President then started to drift away from him. He did don’t get me wrong but never to the point of fighting his friends over it, for example at one point he was going to get them both back but Wilbur told him it was going to make problems So he gave up his only chance to get back both discs.
He said it on multiple times before that the disc remind him of his times with tuboo and If he gets them both of them back all the conflicts will end.
The reason I brought this up it’s because it’s the same thing he did with L’manberg The memories of Wilbur made it worth protecting. You cannot say he Betrayed his ideals When he is single mind in the chasing his ideal The only difference he learns not to put memories over the real thing
Can someone Canonically send this to Tommy and techno
I just realize that both techno and tommy have red and white color schemes and i know thats unintentional but their parallel is foreshadowed all along.
Edit: they both also have green best friends too
Technoblade killed Tubbo and Tommy never could really get over that. When it came to choosing between them the choice was easy. And when it came to choosing an insult to call Technoblade, that was easy too. He called him the most hurtful thing he ever heard from Tubbo...selfish.
The enemy all along was miscommunication, like a Shakespeare play, so I think Wilbur did a good job with the writing there
Oh my freakin gosh!!! I am so glad I watched this video of yours! I've only watched through Techno's eyes of his own journey on the dsmp and only ever knew what was going on about Tommy through clips and stuff, even if only bc it crosses my dashboard. This video was so very eye-opening to me and allowed me to at least further understand their relationship. This video is beautifully created, and listening to your voice was very relaxing to me hahaha
I really like this video and the points u made :) I am also hoping we get that Techno Tommy convo u mentioned soon. Considering Tommy seemed to be sympathetic towards Techno’s execution during his stream at Las Nevadas. He mentioned Techno a few other times and the guilt he felt so I’m keeping my fingers crossed. And Tommy called Techno his brother so even if they don’t have a convo I got all the bedrock bros content I needed 😌
I feel as though it is important to note that after the manburg betrayal by techno he makes an Ernest attempt at reforming his violent ways, whereas Tommy continues to be and act the same no matter what happens and even continues his quest for the discs after lmanburg is finally destroyed by Techno and Dream. In addition to this Tommy has the Gaul to continue to steal from techno even after his betrayal and he was the one who sawt out Techno in the first place even after techno blew up lmanburg for the first time.
Techno on the other hand purposely isolated himself and only returned because of the butcher army.
I’d argue that his “retirement” was more a mental fabrication then a reality (as i said in the video), because the reveal of the wither room and the dialogue going along with it makes it clear he was making it and planning to use it long before Tommy came along. To me, while watching season 2, it never really seemed like techno’s “changes” were authentic. if anything his character arc was (imo) about staying the same through everything that went down.
what the hell this is so underrated- i've always been on techno's side but i now see the similarities in the characters and how neither of them are necessarily "In the right"
Although this is a very well put together video, I do feel like Techno got the short end of the stick, being hunted and all. Even was threatened that if he didn't go, Carl would die. He wasn't given a fair trial, so he immediately sentenced for execution. Tommy, he was only sentenced to exile.
Just saiyan, Techno was kind of justified in his beliefs here.
Techno regular instills a victim complex into himself and by extension his viewers.
He has valid justification for many of his points but there are some glaring issues.
Techno claims that he was peer-pressured into kill tubbo, sure this makes sense, but it doesn't excuse his bloodlust rage he went on afterwards, nearly killing all of the attendees of the Manburg festival.
Idk just something to think about.
@@aguy6771 Only reason why I think he did do that, was because of the voices he hears. But other than that, there wasn't a justified reason for that massacre.
@@cjteriyaga.v2 yeah, also this video is probably one of my favourites ever.
After watching this, I'm not so sure on if Techno really was firm in his anarchist beliefs the entire time. He'd kept silent up until the moment Dream had messaged him....like he was debating with himself. What if he was reconsidering his beliefs after the defeat of Schlatt? Or, what if he was considering closely aiding Tubbo as the new president, if only to make sure Tubbo didn't become corrupted by the power? But before he could come to a decision, Dream interrupted his internal debate, and pushed him back towards his old beliefs?
This is so well edited, you're awesome!
I agree but i feel like techno lost more in both betrayals than Tommy did. Techno worked for hours to get resources for Tommy and Pogtopia while nobody else contributed anything(not their fault technically) and still betrayed them. Techno still supplied Tommy with weapons and armor after his betrayal and got betrayed again this time losing his axe of peace while Tommy loses his discs that he hasn't had control of in months