I just realised that you compared Dream not wanting the Dream SMP being split into sides with L'Manberg gaining independence to Ranboo's speech about choosing people over sides and those two characters are so connected already that this just blew my mind.
Different people go about it differently, if you think about it. Dream did unite them, if he's the common enemy. They have to stay united to go against him.
@@ansarali78 no he didn't? he came on the server to help out tommy and wilbur get rid of schlatt's government, and when he saw everyone wanting a new president and government, he pointed out his viewpoint of what happens with governments. No-one listened and he unleashed the withers.
I have always found it interesting that we do not really get to see Dream's point of view. He seems so villainous because we do not get to see how he feels. I love this analysis for putting us in Dream's shoes. I would love a video from his perspective to make us understand him and feel for him, that goes through all the main events as he saw them, before a tragic death or something.
I definitely agree, I remember him saying that he didn't want to stream it because it would take away viewership from people that worker harder, but considering how much he does in terms of scripting for the Dream SMP and also how much depth and relevance his character has, I feel like he could stream it every once a while. Call me a Dream apologist, but I don't necessarily qualify his as a villain, at least not for the majority of the story. Maybe now that Dream is reviving people and growing mad with power, he is more so an evil character, but back when he was fighting L'Manberg and such, surely he isn't all bad.
I think it is amazing how Dream wants to give the spotlight to smaller creators and such, but he works so hard too that if he wanted to stream then I really think he deserves to. However, without us viewers being able to see things from his perspective we really can not easily empathize with him and that makes him such an amazing antagonist, if not villian. I truly would love to see certain events from his perspective. I was also a Dream apologist (speaking of the character now!) until Tommy's exile. The abuse was a little too real for me to excuse as an opposing side in a war or whatever. But maybe if he had some support previously he never would have snapped. Wilbur also did some horrible things to Tommy, honestly, and people saw him more as a tragic figure that needed help than a villian. This is why I love your videos. They really make me think!
I actually think dream wanted to be seen as a villan. He doesnt want apologists or excuses. He wants c! Dream to be irrational, and thirsty for power and control. I dont think he wanted to be a hero so uhh
@@katrinaleahu9369 I see where you're coming from, but I think I have to disagree a bit. The thing with Dream is I don't think a single one of his actions are irrational. His single downfall was when he didn't expect Punz to turn on him and unite the Dream SMP against him. If irl Dream wanted c!Dream to be purely villainous, he wouldn't have done things like defending George after Tommy burnt his house and again with Eret after the El Rapids gang "griefed" the castle. I think it all comes down to what I mentioned in the video, your perspective tends to correlate with who you watch and since Dream doesn't stream/record Dream SMP, internally we want, and maybe expect, to see him as a villain. This might be my Dream apologist coming out, but I think if we try to look at the Dream SMP as an objective 3rd party without locking certain characters into certain roles, yes, Dream is absolutely an evil character (manipulation, torture, property damage, etc), but just because someone is evil doesn't mean their actions are unjustified or irrational.
@@omelehg well.. Yes, but I never said that hes actions are unjustified, he wants control and power, that is the reason he exiled Tommy, to control him without any obstacles. His actions are very justified and they all have an evil purpose. About defending George after Tommy 'completely' burned George's house... Again... The purpose wans't to defend George.... They repaired it în like 3 minutes, the purpose was to get rid of Tommy and have control again over him. About what happened with Eret and hes castel... I actually dont know what happened... I didnt see
I actually have a theory: I think Dream started developing his God/Evil mindset due of his species. Dream is a Dreamon and there pretty much the SMP's verson of demons (creatures who conjure and control people by possessing them). In the Dreamon Arc, Dream was possessed by a seeming powerful Dreamon, that could have left some scarring that something more powerful controlled him. Also in the wiki it said that Dreamon was DreamXD, and that XD is apart of Dream. My guess is that DreamXD is the manifestation of Dreams control on the server as he has creative mode. Also it could also be that Dream feels an obligation or that he needs to be control or in power. I mean the server has his name on it, a part of him (DreamXD) is the canonical God now (taking his original role) and his brother Foolish is technically a God too (Foolish confirmed on stream that he and Dream are brothers). This could be the stage that he realises that the other players won't play nice as there's always something fought over, so he believes that in order to persevere peace he needs to control what people start wars over (the discs, L'manburg, etc.), but at this point he's deluded himself due to others labelling him a villain early on when he just wanted to preserve the SMP. A Dreamon who wanted to have control of his own fate, only in the end to become the demon himself. (The road to hell is always paved with good intentions). He's like a Naruto Villain.
I personally think that c!dream being shown as a villain for so long and him acting as one to get the server united sorta pushed him over the edge until he became an actual villain
i think there's defnitely a point where that was true, but during present dream smp time, i think it might actually be the opposite, at least in my interpretation
This video opened my eyes to a lot of things about Dream and I am truly grateful that you made such an amazing Video. On one of your last vids (I think it was the Fundy one) I made a comment about my thoughts on Dream has a character and it was liked by a number of people, including you Omelehg who gave it a heart, so I feel that it is right to make another comment on Dream to delve deeper into this character. In my comment on the Fundy video I basically said that Dream was fueled by his ego, and that he wanted to control everything to satiate said ego. This video however makes a amazing point that I didn’t take into account, Dream was once a good person, somewhat. He cared for his friends, and he fought hard for them. Here’s where my first counter to you lies however, because in this video you said that he never really lost until the season two finale, however I would like to disagree with that, because he lost the moment he decided to agree to Tommy’s deal with the disks for L’manbergs independence. Why did he lose in that scenario, well it’s because he made a choice that sent him on the path to chaos, it was the moment he truly began his ark into villainy. Why do I say this, well although his ego was still a big factor in his personality, he still wanted to maintain peace in the world and for everyone to be one big happy family. When he chose the disks, he chose to satiate his ego and continue his meaningless battle with Tommy, one that he could have already won if he just took Tommy’s final life there and then over his obligation to keep peace, in taking those disks he not only continued a battle with Tommy that would lead him into going to prison and would create his worst enemy, he gave up his mission to destroy L’manberg, because of what he did that day many wars were started, lives were lost and friendships were ruined, he let his ego take over and by doing so, created the means to his own end. However it was by all means in character for him to do this, out of everybody in the server Tommy was always his biggest enemy, not because he’s the strongest, because he’s a free spirit who no matter what Dream does, he can’t control and he cannot corrupt, and he doesn’t allow himself to simply kill Tommy (permanently) until he has broken Tommy, because until then Tommy still got the best of him. Dream let his ego drive him into trying to destroy Tommy mentally, and the irony of it all is in the end of the day, doing so drove him into madness has well. Dream has never been my favorite character, he’s kinda one dimensional and it feels like when it comes to roll play, he’s either mysterious and menacing, or angry and menacing. Theres not much else he does in terms of emotion and it leaves him a kind of hollow character, but the story his life tells in this story and the way he bounces off character like Tommy makes him interesting to watch, and his journey fun to analyze. Thank you again for this amazing video and I hope to see more from you soon.
Thanks for giving so much thought to this! Minor correction before I continue this discussion, the comment was on the Tommy video, the Fundy one was actually made by Scrawls! Glad you enjoyed both of them though! In the scope of the video, I define (although implicitly) that winning for Dream is being in control and losing is being out, not whether he's a villain or a hero or whether he's protecting peace or not. His primary motivation is control, anything after that is just a product of that control. From my understanding of Dream, he values control over his relationships as a whole (he gave up his friends and possessions for control). So when looking at trading discs for independence, I'd say that because of his prior conflicts with Tommy (disc war although might not be canonical), he already identifies Tommy as the largest threat on L'Manberg's side. You'll notice that every other founding member of L'Manberg is controlled by Dream later on (I guess with the exception of Fundy, but he went crazy on his own) with Tommy being the last (original) member for Dream to actually have control over, even briefly (exile), not including Niki or Jack (ig they also went a little crazy with the whole nuke thing and Niki doing the "It was never meant to be line" with the L'Mantree, but that's not super relevant lol). So while I agree that making that trade was disadvantageous from the perspective of peace and unity, it was absolutely the right play for control. Look at it this way. If he did not trade this discs and did not give L'Manberg independence, Tommy would have his discs and Dream would not have any leverage over Tommy. As you said, Tommy is a free spirit and not having leverage makes Dream unable to predict how Tommy might act, and thus be in a position out of control. The progression of Dream to chaos also supports your notion of his motivation via ego. At the start, he wants control so he can create order and protect, but afterwards, he wants control for more selfish reasons, things like power and chaos. I really like this part of your analysis: "Dream let his ego drive him into trying to destroy Tommy mentally, and the irony of it all is in the end of the day, doing so drove him into madness has well." This is a clear example of the intersection between control and chaos. The only way to control a free being like Tommy is to drive them to chaos and madness, but to bring someone to chaos, you need to be chaotic yourself. Again, thanks so much for creating this dialogue! The story of the Dream SMP (at least pre-egg) is super interesting and each of the characters are so unique. Admittedly, Dream is not the most in-depth character, but that doesn't mean he's completely flat. He's less round and dynamic than other characters in the SMP, but that doesn't mean he's not round or dynamic. Hopefully, the next video meets (or hopefully exceeds :D) your expectations! I'll try to get it out a little quicker this time :P Side Note: From what it looks like, the egg arc is starting to wind down (check out Quackity's most recent lore stream!). Although I feel like it's ending a little abruptly and without as much depth as it necessarily could have had, it's been drawn out so long without a clear direction that I'm excited to see the direction the Dream SMP goes after.
@@omelehg thank you for the reply and you made some amazing points! I agree with the egg ark stuff, I can’t wait for it to end, not saying that it’s necessarily bad it’s just doesn’t fit in with everything. Love your content and I hope you have a wonderful day.
I LOVED THIS VIDEO!! I'm super late but you've said everything I've been trying to explain to people. We're all heroes in our on pov, mostly at least. I don't condone dream's actions, but he definitely has a pov. The same as everyone else. Tommy may seem like a villain to some, even Tubbo! My theory is that Dream only wanted himself to be in power or just control, as you said. But, as things went on, he started becoming more hungry for control, maybe still right in his mind. Ranboo was right, sides cause problems. It's a matter of perspective. Dream started going overboard, but at the start, he was pretty reasonable. It's the same with real life, everyone has different perspectives on life.
Thanks for coming by and commenting!! Glad you enjoyed it! Definitely agree with the whole "sides cause problems" that Ranboo points out. It's that mentality that "I can't win unless you lose" that creates the most conflict and that vilifies Dream! Great insight!
Dream actually never starts conflict. He isnt a villain but not a hero. Think about it: L'Manberg was built on his land, they couldve built it somewhere else but decided to build it on his land, and started acting all like they were heroes. He simply fought back, brutally, but he did. Schlatt, when he rose to power everyone kinda blamed Dream but Dream had NOTHING to do with it. Quackity rose him to power, Dream didnt exactly like him, but didnt just hate him. In fact, he did help Wilbur. Stepped in front of Wilbur and protected him when Tommy was gonna shoot him, gave Wilbur all this stuff, and helped pogtopia. Before you say "Oh BuT hE jOiNeD sChLaTt", think about it. Schlatt gave him the revive book, and Dream did the smart thing. He pretended to be on schlatts side, but wasnt, and traded on Schlatt. So he had the revive book, but traded on Schlatt. The whole exile thing was really brutal, but Dream had enough of Tommy. Tommy was always stealing and greifing innocents, then greifed George. Dream simply stood up for all these people and exiled Tommy. Should he have thrown the invites in the water so nobody would visit Tommy? No, not exactly. While Tommy somewhat deserved it, he had already had enough punishment so that was one messed up thing but sometimes good people do bad things, he probably regrets it too. He saved Carl and Technoblade, and Doomsday was simply because Tubbo was going to execute him at the green festival. What people dont understand is, we live in a world of law and order. Dream SMP? Thats still a primal age, like medieval times. In that kind of world, if a country is gonna execute them you have the right to destroy the country. Back in the day, something like that was considered legendary and heroic. And I say, it still is. In prison, he was traded on by basically everyone. He griefed the community house, betrayed his friends, his pets, and more because "people could hurt my friends or pets, or grief me as leverage" and he doesnt want that to happen, so he did the selfless thing. Keeping his friends and pets would be selfish because then they would die. Now, hes in prison, and revived Wilbur. Even though Ghostbur didnt want it, Wilbur did, and Wilbur was his friend. It was sad but had to be done.
I get where you're coming from, but I think it's important to realize some of the objectively evil things he did. Certainly things like rescuing Carl and Technoblade and standing up for George, one of his only friends, could be considered heroic, almost anything he did regarding Tommy post Wilbur's death is pretty villainous. Even if we consider that Dream SMP is a world without law and order (a relatively large assumption considering the existence of governments, political leaders, and democracy to some extent, especially under Tubbo's presidency), while exile might be justified, what's not is the continuous emotional torture Dream put on Tommy. I'd argue that a lot of Dream's actions were justified until then, but at this point, it feels like manipulation for the sake of c!Dream's sick personal enjoyment. Dream tried to sever all of Tommy's connections, even going so far as to pretend to set up a party for him and trick him into thinking everyone had turned on him. Even from an unbiased perspective of the situation at that point, it's undeniable that Tommy is the victim and Dream is a villain. Side note: I'd argue that destroying a country because they chose to execute a friend or ally in current times would not be considered "legendary." We might have to agree to disagree here, but I feel like this shouldn't be a point of contention lol. I get your point, just not sure if saying "And I say, it still is" is necessarily going to fly in a more heated discussion XD.
That's definitely a fair turning point. I think I mentioned it in the video, but the point where Dream truly became evil was when he severed all his attachments and losing Spirit is arguably the first, but absolutely the most definitive instance where he began to distance himself from any and all attachments.
@@omelehg oh yeah also I have a theory that while Dream was destroying Tommy’s armor in exile.It was not to control Tommy but make Tommy understand that attachments can be dangerous to the mind and not to have them too be stronger.Dream also kept Punz safe and warned him so I think Dream still has his original plan for people who treat him nice like Techno.
Nah, Dream was trying to frame tommy by destroying and griefing things on the smp with captain puffy. He just wanted to control Tommy. Even if Tommy hadn't destroyed George's house, he would've still been exiled by Dream because the point of exile was to isolate and abuse Tommy until he breaks not to simply teach him a lesson.
when you think about it the reason this all started was because dream wanted a simple server without drama but as soon as tommy joined he started griefing and killing causing him to be teleported away, dream didnt start anything im not saying its okay what dream did but even if tommy and tubbo were children at the time they were 17 and or 16 at the time they could still take responsibility for there mistakes, like I was saying he handed tommy the disks for independence but what did he do. dream just wanted a server for his friends and soon to come friends, just peace.
While I think it's definitely not the direction Dream intended it to go, I think it's fair to acknowledge that a lot of the fame the Dream SMP has in the present is credited to Tommy's affinity for role play. But I see where you're coming from, even if we assume the lore began before Tommy joined, Dream's motives have remained pretty consistent!
but that wasn't scripted, nor tommy really start the wars, the first war was started by Ponk and Sapnap, then Tommy joined and did bad stuff for only 1 Stream, I think we should take in consideration that one
That was well done. I saw Dream’s completely justified at the beginning, but when he started tormenting and obviously manipulating everyone for his own ends all I could do was clap. A fantastic Villain’s Journey.
Oddly I think that Dream is the type of guy who grew up following to many people. Like fundy. It’s odd but they give off the vibe of twisting themselves to be the bad guy for their own delusional minds and other people
Nice video man I have a theory that Dream was actually working to make the server peaceful and tommy knew it so he acted good because he wanted control and forced dream to act bad
"Dream wasn't chaotic until Wilbur showed up" ehhhhhhh, well if we exclude Dream's persistence in fighting Tommy for discs, Dream also following Tommy to the nether to try and dump lava on him, and Dream making underground tunnels that lead from his place to Tommy's (also the fact that the tunnels always led to one of the many juke boxes in Tommy's base, just so he could have access to a playing disc at all times), including Dream always going after Tommy (something quackity later talked about after doomsday). Then sure! Dream had never been chaotic until then. You are missing quiet a bit of details my friend. Dream had enforced rules on Tommy from day one that he and his friends broke countless times before. His road to chaos began with Tommy, to him Wilbur was another pawn to be used. Wilbur got in the way but he used Wilbur when he became useful. Dream was aware Wilbur wasn't in a good mental state, and he used that against him. He used that against Tommy aswell when he was in exile. Dream has been chaotic way before Wilbur came along. Also something about the exile arc was that it had been planned. Dream and Puffy went around destroying and stealing things, then leaving signs blaming it on Tommy. Puffy clearly thought they were messing around, never could she had known his plan to exile Tommy and the trauma it would ensue. But I guess the excuse Dream went with was george's house in the end, something Tommy actually destroyed. Now, was Dream desire to gain control? 100%! Can't argue with that. Loss of control was the main drive to a lot of his actions... Which may also be the reason he always went after Tommy. Tommy defied him, Tommy purposely broke the rules, Dream told Tommy that he was the only person who never listen to him. But that feeling of loss of control soon became an obsession. Because at one point Dream did have a form of control over Tommy in exile. But his obsession didn't begin there, but I believe his reasons to go after Tommy might of change. Like the most fearful we've ever seen Dream was during quackity's prison visits! Because he has no control over the situation and he sounds PETRIFIED. I stick to this argument whole heartedly: It's difficult to make a character analysis on Dream without diving into how he views and treats Tommy. There's a lot of things to view with their relationship (and when I say relationship I mean platonic not romantic) but you can definitely annalise his actions and the way he views people other than Tommy. It's just clear that Tommy was someone he wanted to control, and later turned into someone he wanted to keep to himself. (The main cell literally has things Tommy's afraid of: small space, lava, obsidian. The prison itself is built with Blackstone and obsidian. The prison was planned and so was exile.) Insane how Dream went to the most extreme lengths for one person.
Actually I think they are talking about the time lmanberg pops up at the dsmp. Just like c!dream said “if someone takes your table in your house don't you want it back?” when talking with c!skeppy. He tried to gain control more of the server by trying to take down lmanberg but it have gotten out of hand and not to mention, none of these probably even happened if lmanberg haven't even been build. So yeah they are actually right.
@@enetelight_9308 After reading your comment I can tell you either didn't understand my point, or didn't read it. My point was Dream became this chaotic dictator before Wilbur joined the server. Also I know what you're talking about. I've seen the video of skeppy and Dream's conversation about L'manburg. What you forgot to point out is that Skeppy immediately shut down that argument. Dream was already circling around the truth but Skeppy was able to gather that L'manburg wasn't even a problem. They were pacifists who basically frolicked in the flowers and sang songs. Dream forced them into a war they didn't want. They saw that Dream was acting like a tyrant, and stood up against the bully.
The one thing dream has is that he canonically has creative mode as in the homeless arc but he usually hides it this is just a theory I mean technically he does in the homeless arc
The poem answer is definetly Wilbur Leader of L'Manberg Sally the Salmon he got dirty Drugs van Dream brought him back from the dead The blues cooled Ghostbur Fundy also died
Here for this great video i can already guess im gonna love this one. Edit: Im pretty sure the next character is willbur. Its just kinda obvious with the poem.
I find that l’manburg didn’t really pose a threat. They just wanted freedom. I know no one is willing to talk, but Dream never I guess listened to l’manburg they didn’t truly want to split the server they just wanted freedom. Dream just didn’t like that so he destroyed it.
I can definitely see where you're coming from, but I don't think c!Dream at that point would go to war over just "not liking" L'Manberg. While it may not have been for reasons of unity, I think there was definitely some provocation that led him to act the way he did. At the end of the day, it's not about what L'Manberg wanted, it's more about what Dream and the Greater Dream SMP wanted and from the events that transpired, clearly, L'Manberg was a problem.
Nobody is a villan nobodody is a hero. Tehere is one rule: Voilence make more voilence and frienship make more freidship. DreamSMP need soemone hwo gonna stop voilence and start frienship.
Just absolutely stellar video amazing work!! This is so well edited and your voice is so cool and nice to listen to!! Will sub!! Can’t wait to see more videos :D !!!
Thanks for the encouragement! I'm getting another video ready (hopefully in the next weekish?) but prob not gonna be analysis video for reasons I'll explain when I post it. Hopefully, it'll still be worth your time :D
gonna have to hard disagree, wanting control is something people want sure but is that a good thing? maybe the real culprit isn't "choosing sides" as you posit but choosing to horde power. enforcing the ideology of "might makes right" and inadvertently causing the entire spiral of technoblade and tommy within the Dream SMP, causing the pain that Ramboo feels. really subjugation, might makes right, and hording power are the true villains of the dream smp
So you say Tommy burning down George’s home, the home of the king is minor terrorism. What would happen to someone if they burned down Buckingham palace? Or another place queen Elizabeth thinks of as her home. Dream had every right to enforce removing Tommy from his own country. That’s the only thing I disagree on about this video. Enjoy your day.
I just realised that you compared Dream not wanting the Dream SMP being split into sides with L'Manberg gaining independence to Ranboo's speech about choosing people over sides and those two characters are so connected already that this just blew my mind.
Glad someone noticed :D
How dud I now notice that omg
Different people go about it differently, if you think about it. Dream did unite them, if he's the common enemy. They have to stay united to go against him.
Omg my mind was just blown to bits I never thought about that before
you either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain
ayyyy fax
To be honest that kinda works for techno too
@@ansarali78 I mainly see him as the victim of the heroes
Credits?
@@ansarali78 no he didn't? he came on the server to help out tommy and wilbur get rid of schlatt's government, and when he saw everyone wanting a new president and government, he pointed out his viewpoint of what happens with governments. No-one listened and he unleashed the withers.
I have always found it interesting that we do not really get to see Dream's point of view. He seems so villainous because we do not get to see how he feels. I love this analysis for putting us in Dream's shoes. I would love a video from his perspective to make us understand him and feel for him, that goes through all the main events as he saw them, before a tragic death or something.
I definitely agree, I remember him saying that he didn't want to stream it because it would take away viewership from people that worker harder, but considering how much he does in terms of scripting for the Dream SMP and also how much depth and relevance his character has, I feel like he could stream it every once a while.
Call me a Dream apologist, but I don't necessarily qualify his as a villain, at least not for the majority of the story. Maybe now that Dream is reviving people and growing mad with power, he is more so an evil character, but back when he was fighting L'Manberg and such, surely he isn't all bad.
I think it is amazing how Dream wants to give the spotlight to smaller creators and such, but he works so hard too that if he wanted to stream then I really think he deserves to. However, without us viewers being able to see things from his perspective we really can not easily empathize with him and that makes him such an amazing antagonist, if not villian. I truly would love to see certain events from his perspective. I was also a Dream apologist (speaking of the character now!) until Tommy's exile. The abuse was a little too real for me to excuse as an opposing side in a war or whatever. But maybe if he had some support previously he never would have snapped. Wilbur also did some horrible things to Tommy, honestly, and people saw him more as a tragic figure that needed help than a villian. This is why I love your videos. They really make me think!
I actually think dream wanted to be seen as a villan. He doesnt want apologists or excuses. He wants c! Dream to be irrational, and thirsty for power and control. I dont think he wanted to be a hero so uhh
@@katrinaleahu9369 I see where you're coming from, but I think I have to disagree a bit. The thing with Dream is I don't think a single one of his actions are irrational. His single downfall was when he didn't expect Punz to turn on him and unite the Dream SMP against him.
If irl Dream wanted c!Dream to be purely villainous, he wouldn't have done things like defending George after Tommy burnt his house and again with Eret after the El Rapids gang "griefed" the castle. I think it all comes down to what I mentioned in the video, your perspective tends to correlate with who you watch and since Dream doesn't stream/record Dream SMP, internally we want, and maybe expect, to see him as a villain.
This might be my Dream apologist coming out, but I think if we try to look at the Dream SMP as an objective 3rd party without locking certain characters into certain roles, yes, Dream is absolutely an evil character (manipulation, torture, property damage, etc), but just because someone is evil doesn't mean their actions are unjustified or irrational.
@@omelehg well.. Yes, but I never said that hes actions are unjustified, he wants control and power, that is the reason he exiled Tommy, to control him without any obstacles. His actions are very justified and they all have an evil purpose.
About defending George after Tommy 'completely' burned George's house... Again... The purpose wans't to defend George.... They repaired it în like 3 minutes, the purpose was to get rid of Tommy and have control again over him. About what happened with Eret and hes castel... I actually dont know what happened... I didnt see
I actually have a theory: I think Dream started developing his God/Evil mindset due of his species. Dream is a Dreamon and there pretty much the SMP's verson of demons (creatures who conjure and control people by possessing them). In the Dreamon Arc, Dream was possessed by a seeming powerful Dreamon, that could have left some scarring that something more powerful controlled him. Also in the wiki it said that Dreamon was DreamXD, and that XD is apart of Dream. My guess is that DreamXD is the manifestation of Dreams control on the server as he has creative mode. Also it could also be that Dream feels an obligation or that he needs to be control or in power. I mean the server has his name on it, a part of him (DreamXD) is the canonical God now (taking his original role) and his brother Foolish is technically a God too (Foolish confirmed on stream that he and Dream are brothers). This could be the stage that he realises that the other players won't play nice as there's always something fought over, so he believes that in order to persevere peace he needs to control what people start wars over (the discs, L'manburg, etc.), but at this point he's deluded himself due to others labelling him a villain early on when he just wanted to preserve the SMP. A Dreamon who wanted to have control of his own fate, only in the end to become the demon himself. (The road to hell is always paved with good intentions). He's like a Naruto Villain.
I personally think that c!dream being shown as a villain for so long and him acting as one to get the server united sorta pushed him over the edge until he became an actual villain
Haha at 0:24 I really thought you were going to say 'Dream is more than just a villain, He is... A GOD!!'
I was ready to novela gasp. 😆
lmao *plays dramatic dun dun dun music*
I view dream as doing bad things for a good reason and wilbur is good actions for bad reasons
i think there's defnitely a point where that was true, but during present dream smp time, i think it might actually be the opposite, at least in my interpretation
Wilbur is anti villain
Dream WAS an anti hero
Techno IS an anti hero
Tommy is a heroic villain
Tubbo is the weird villain siding with heroes
Lets be honest, he is my favorite character after techno.
Personally, not sure I'd put him that high, but he's definitely in like the top 4 :D
@@omelehg he is literally the best bro then who is on top
Dream’s 3rd behind Ph1LzA (2nd) & Technoblade (1st)
@@Dj_Gj philza and techno are not better than dream in acting come on guys
Maybe in my top ten. No where close to my top 3.
Everyone said that Dream is heartless. So he became. Be careful what you're saying/wish for. It could come true
😀Dream is my favourite character of the Dream smp. Ps love this video!
Definitely one of the most interesting characters and one that underwent some of the most change on the server! Glad you enjoyed!!
@@omelehg 😀
This video opened my eyes to a lot of things about Dream and I am truly grateful that you made such an amazing Video. On one of your last vids (I think it was the Fundy one) I made a comment about my thoughts on Dream has a character and it was liked by a number of people, including you Omelehg who gave it a heart, so I feel that it is right to make another comment on Dream to delve deeper into this character.
In my comment on the Fundy video I basically said that Dream was fueled by his ego, and that he wanted to control everything to satiate said ego. This video however makes a amazing point that I didn’t take into account, Dream was once a good person, somewhat. He cared for his friends, and he fought hard for them.
Here’s where my first counter to you lies however, because in this video you said that he never really lost until the season two finale, however I would like to disagree with that, because he lost the moment he decided to agree to Tommy’s deal with the disks for L’manbergs independence. Why did he lose in that scenario, well it’s because he made a choice that sent him on the path to chaos, it was the moment he truly began his ark into villainy.
Why do I say this, well although his ego was still a big factor in his personality, he still wanted to maintain peace in the world and for everyone to be one big happy family. When he chose the disks, he chose to satiate his ego and continue his meaningless battle with Tommy, one that he could have already won if he just took Tommy’s final life there and then over his obligation to keep peace, in taking those disks he not only continued a battle with Tommy that would lead him into going to prison and would create his worst enemy, he gave up his mission to destroy L’manberg, because of what he did that day many wars were started, lives were lost and friendships were ruined, he let his ego take over and by doing so, created the means to his own end.
However it was by all means in character for him to do this, out of everybody in the server Tommy was always his biggest enemy, not because he’s the strongest, because he’s a free spirit who no matter what Dream does, he can’t control and he cannot corrupt, and he doesn’t allow himself to simply kill Tommy (permanently) until he has broken Tommy, because until then Tommy still got the best of him. Dream let his ego drive him into trying to destroy Tommy mentally, and the irony of it all is in the end of the day, doing so drove him into madness has well.
Dream has never been my favorite character, he’s kinda one dimensional and it feels like when it comes to roll play, he’s either mysterious and menacing, or angry and menacing. Theres not much else he does in terms of emotion and it leaves him a kind of hollow character, but the story his life tells in this story and the way he bounces off character like Tommy makes him interesting to watch, and his journey fun to analyze. Thank you again for this amazing video and I hope to see more from you soon.
Thanks for giving so much thought to this! Minor correction before I continue this discussion, the comment was on the Tommy video, the Fundy one was actually made by Scrawls! Glad you enjoyed both of them though!
In the scope of the video, I define (although implicitly) that winning for Dream is being in control and losing is being out, not whether he's a villain or a hero or whether he's protecting peace or not. His primary motivation is control, anything after that is just a product of that control.
From my understanding of Dream, he values control over his relationships as a whole (he gave up his friends and possessions for control). So when looking at trading discs for independence, I'd say that because of his prior conflicts with Tommy (disc war although might not be canonical), he already identifies Tommy as the largest threat on L'Manberg's side. You'll notice that every other founding member of L'Manberg is controlled by Dream later on (I guess with the exception of Fundy, but he went crazy on his own) with Tommy being the last (original) member for Dream to actually have control over, even briefly (exile), not including Niki or Jack (ig they also went a little crazy with the whole nuke thing and Niki doing the "It was never meant to be line" with the L'Mantree, but that's not super relevant lol).
So while I agree that making that trade was disadvantageous from the perspective of peace and unity, it was absolutely the right play for control. Look at it this way. If he did not trade this discs and did not give L'Manberg independence, Tommy would have his discs and Dream would not have any leverage over Tommy. As you said, Tommy is a free spirit and not having leverage makes Dream unable to predict how Tommy might act, and thus be in a position out of control.
The progression of Dream to chaos also supports your notion of his motivation via ego. At the start, he wants control so he can create order and protect, but afterwards, he wants control for more selfish reasons, things like power and chaos. I really like this part of your analysis: "Dream let his ego drive him into trying to destroy Tommy mentally, and the irony of it all is in the end of the day, doing so drove him into madness has well." This is a clear example of the intersection between control and chaos. The only way to control a free being like Tommy is to drive them to chaos and madness, but to bring someone to chaos, you need to be chaotic yourself.
Again, thanks so much for creating this dialogue! The story of the Dream SMP (at least pre-egg) is super interesting and each of the characters are so unique. Admittedly, Dream is not the most in-depth character, but that doesn't mean he's completely flat. He's less round and dynamic than other characters in the SMP, but that doesn't mean he's not round or dynamic. Hopefully, the next video meets (or hopefully exceeds :D) your expectations! I'll try to get it out a little quicker this time :P
Side Note: From what it looks like, the egg arc is starting to wind down (check out Quackity's most recent lore stream!). Although I feel like it's ending a little abruptly and without as much depth as it necessarily could have had, it's been drawn out so long without a clear direction that I'm excited to see the direction the Dream SMP goes after.
@@omelehg thank you for the reply and you made some amazing points! I agree with the egg ark stuff, I can’t wait for it to end, not saying that it’s necessarily bad it’s just doesn’t fit in with everything.
Love your content and I hope you have a wonderful day.
I LOVED THIS VIDEO!! I'm super late but you've said everything I've been trying to explain to people. We're all heroes in our on pov, mostly at least. I don't condone dream's actions, but he definitely has a pov. The same as everyone else. Tommy may seem like a villain to some, even Tubbo! My theory is that Dream only wanted himself to be in power or just control, as you said. But, as things went on, he started becoming more hungry for control, maybe still right in his mind. Ranboo was right, sides cause problems. It's a matter of perspective. Dream started going overboard, but at the start, he was pretty reasonable. It's the same with real life, everyone has different perspectives on life.
Thanks for coming by and commenting!! Glad you enjoyed it! Definitely agree with the whole "sides cause problems" that Ranboo points out. It's that mentality that "I can't win unless you lose" that creates the most conflict and that vilifies Dream! Great insight!
@@omelehg YEAAAH! Glad you agree!!
“Some Men, Just Want to watch the Discs Burn”
xD
Ironically enough, the thing that got him to lose was the one connection that still remained, his connection to Tommy.
You explained dreams character so good omg?!?!
Thanks! Glad you liked it :D
Dream actually never starts conflict. He isnt a villain but not a hero.
Think about it:
L'Manberg was built on his land, they couldve built it somewhere else but decided to build it on his land, and started acting all like they were heroes. He simply fought back, brutally, but he did. Schlatt, when he rose to power everyone kinda blamed Dream but Dream had NOTHING to do with it. Quackity rose him to power, Dream didnt exactly like him, but didnt just hate him. In fact, he did help Wilbur. Stepped in front of Wilbur and protected him when Tommy was gonna shoot him, gave Wilbur all this stuff, and helped pogtopia. Before you say "Oh BuT hE jOiNeD sChLaTt", think about it. Schlatt gave him the revive book, and Dream did the smart thing. He pretended to be on schlatts side, but wasnt, and traded on Schlatt. So he had the revive book, but traded on Schlatt. The whole exile thing was really brutal, but Dream had enough of Tommy. Tommy was always stealing and greifing innocents, then greifed George. Dream simply stood up for all these people and exiled Tommy. Should he have thrown the invites in the water so nobody would visit Tommy? No, not exactly. While Tommy somewhat deserved it, he had already had enough punishment so that was one messed up thing but sometimes good people do bad things, he probably regrets it too. He saved Carl and Technoblade, and Doomsday was simply because Tubbo was going to execute him at the green festival. What people dont understand is, we live in a world of law and order. Dream SMP? Thats still a primal age, like medieval times. In that kind of world, if a country is gonna execute them you have the right to destroy the country. Back in the day, something like that was considered legendary and heroic. And I say, it still is. In prison, he was traded on by basically everyone. He griefed the community house, betrayed his friends, his pets, and more because "people could hurt my friends or pets, or grief me as leverage" and he doesnt want that to happen, so he did the selfless thing. Keeping his friends and pets would be selfish because then they would die. Now, hes in prison, and revived Wilbur. Even though Ghostbur didnt want it, Wilbur did, and Wilbur was his friend. It was sad but had to be done.
I get where you're coming from, but I think it's important to realize some of the objectively evil things he did. Certainly things like rescuing Carl and Technoblade and standing up for George, one of his only friends, could be considered heroic, almost anything he did regarding Tommy post Wilbur's death is pretty villainous. Even if we consider that Dream SMP is a world without law and order (a relatively large assumption considering the existence of governments, political leaders, and democracy to some extent, especially under Tubbo's presidency), while exile might be justified, what's not is the continuous emotional torture Dream put on Tommy. I'd argue that a lot of Dream's actions were justified until then, but at this point, it feels like manipulation for the sake of c!Dream's sick personal enjoyment. Dream tried to sever all of Tommy's connections, even going so far as to pretend to set up a party for him and trick him into thinking everyone had turned on him. Even from an unbiased perspective of the situation at that point, it's undeniable that Tommy is the victim and Dream is a villain.
Side note: I'd argue that destroying a country because they chose to execute a friend or ally in current times would not be considered "legendary." We might have to agree to disagree here, but I feel like this shouldn't be a point of contention lol. I get your point, just not sure if saying "And I say, it still is" is necessarily going to fly in a more heated discussion XD.
"all we have is dream as a homeless Teletubby" is making wheeze lmao
Dream was actually good until Tommy threatened him with Spirt
That's definitely a fair turning point. I think I mentioned it in the video, but the point where Dream truly became evil was when he severed all his attachments and losing Spirit is arguably the first, but absolutely the most definitive instance where he began to distance himself from any and all attachments.
@@omelehg yeah true
@@omelehg oh yeah also I have a theory that while Dream was destroying Tommy’s armor in exile.It was not to control Tommy but make Tommy understand that attachments can be dangerous to the mind and not to have them too be stronger.Dream also kept Punz safe and warned him so I think Dream still has his original plan for people who treat him nice like Techno.
Nah, Dream was trying to frame tommy by destroying and griefing things on the smp with captain puffy. He just wanted to control Tommy. Even if Tommy hadn't destroyed George's house, he would've still been exiled by Dream because the point of exile was to isolate and abuse Tommy until he breaks not to simply teach him a lesson.
@@Isabella-qj6hd nah man Tommy did the same day one
FINALLY!!! A video essay about dream!!! I
YOOOOOO Thanks for Watching!! Looks like this vid is getting blessed by the algorithm lol :D Glad you enjoyed!!!
@@omelehg no problem! I cant wait to see more from you!
when you think about it the reason this all started was because dream wanted a simple server without drama but as soon as tommy joined he started griefing and killing causing him to be teleported away, dream didnt start anything im not saying its okay what dream did but even if tommy and tubbo were children at the time they were 17 and or 16 at the time they could still take responsibility for there mistakes, like I was saying he handed tommy the disks for independence but what did he do. dream just wanted a server for his friends and soon to come friends, just peace.
While I think it's definitely not the direction Dream intended it to go, I think it's fair to acknowledge that a lot of the fame the Dream SMP has in the present is credited to Tommy's affinity for role play. But I see where you're coming from, even if we assume the lore began before Tommy joined, Dream's motives have remained pretty consistent!
but that wasn't scripted, nor tommy really start the wars, the first war was started by Ponk and Sapnap, then Tommy joined and did bad stuff for only 1 Stream, I think we should take in consideration that one
Like one quite says "you either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villian"
Underrated as hell
I'm getting there lol, glad you enjoyed!!
That was well done. I saw Dream’s completely justified at the beginning, but when he started tormenting and obviously manipulating everyone for his own ends all I could do was clap.
A fantastic Villain’s Journey.
Let me guess who could it possibly be? oh wait I know, that poem was referencing Wilbur! and his Sally the salmon lore and the start of lmanburg.
Oddly I think that Dream is the type of guy who grew up following to many people. Like fundy. It’s odd but they give off the vibe of twisting themselves to be the bad guy for their own delusional minds and other people
Nice video man
I have a theory that Dream was actually working to make the server peaceful and tommy knew it so he acted good because he wanted control and forced dream to act bad
THIS IS SO GOOD!!!!!!
Holy, EARLY GANG!!!
@@omelehg YESSSSS
I’ve always thought Dream was a homeless teletubby guess it’s true
"Dream wasn't chaotic until Wilbur showed up"
ehhhhhhh, well if we exclude Dream's persistence in fighting Tommy for discs, Dream also following Tommy to the nether to try and dump lava on him, and Dream making underground tunnels that lead from his place to Tommy's (also the fact that the tunnels always led to one of the many juke boxes in Tommy's base, just so he could have access to a playing disc at all times), including Dream always going after Tommy (something quackity later talked about after doomsday). Then sure! Dream had never been chaotic until then.
You are missing quiet a bit of details my friend.
Dream had enforced rules on Tommy from day one that he and his friends broke countless times before. His road to chaos began with Tommy, to him Wilbur was another pawn to be used. Wilbur got in the way but he used Wilbur when he became useful.
Dream was aware Wilbur wasn't in a good mental state, and he used that against him. He used that against Tommy aswell when he was in exile.
Dream has been chaotic way before Wilbur came along.
Also something about the exile arc was that it had been planned. Dream and Puffy went around destroying and stealing things, then leaving signs blaming it on Tommy. Puffy clearly thought they were messing around, never could she had known his plan to exile Tommy and the trauma it would ensue. But I guess the excuse Dream went with was george's house in the end, something Tommy actually destroyed.
Now, was Dream desire to gain control? 100%! Can't argue with that. Loss of control was the main drive to a lot of his actions... Which may also be the reason he always went after Tommy.
Tommy defied him, Tommy purposely broke the rules, Dream told Tommy that he was the only person who never listen to him. But that feeling of loss of control soon became an obsession. Because at one point Dream did have a form of control over Tommy in exile. But his obsession didn't begin there, but I believe his reasons to go after Tommy might of change.
Like the most fearful we've ever seen Dream was during quackity's prison visits! Because he has no control over the situation and he sounds PETRIFIED.
I stick to this argument whole heartedly: It's difficult to make a character analysis on Dream without diving into how he views and treats Tommy.
There's a lot of things to view with their relationship (and when I say relationship I mean platonic not romantic) but you can definitely annalise his actions and the way he views people other than Tommy.
It's just clear that Tommy was someone he wanted to control, and later turned into someone he wanted to keep to himself.
(The main cell literally has things Tommy's afraid of: small space, lava, obsidian. The prison itself is built with Blackstone and obsidian. The prison was planned and so was exile.)
Insane how Dream went to the most extreme lengths for one person.
Lovely video though! Love seeing people talk about their thoughts on characters and analyze them. ^^
Actually I think they are talking about the time lmanberg pops up at the dsmp. Just like c!dream said “if someone takes your table in your house don't you want it back?” when talking with c!skeppy. He tried to gain control more of the server by trying to take down lmanberg but it have gotten out of hand and not to mention, none of these probably even happened if lmanberg haven't even been build. So yeah they are actually right.
/dsmp /rp
@@enetelight_9308 After reading your comment I can tell you either didn't understand my point, or didn't read it. My point was Dream became this chaotic dictator before Wilbur joined the server. Also I know what you're talking about. I've seen the video of skeppy and Dream's conversation about L'manburg. What you forgot to point out is that Skeppy immediately shut down that argument. Dream was already circling around the truth but Skeppy was able to gather that L'manburg wasn't even a problem. They were pacifists who basically frolicked in the flowers and sang songs. Dream forced them into a war they didn't want. They saw that Dream was acting like a tyrant, and stood up against the bully.
If you think about it, the story started with Dream just simping for George and making sex jokes. All until the “protagonists” came along that is.
ngl, that's how it remained for a good portion of the "lore" XD
@@omelehg To me, Dream started as Marth from Fire Emblem, A Hero King who fell to Chaos.
The one thing dream has is that he canonically has creative mode as in the homeless arc but he usually hides it this is just a theory I mean technically he does in the homeless arc
"Nothing goes as planned in this reality"
o.O
The poem answer is definetly
Wilbur
Leader of L'Manberg
Sally the Salmon he got dirty
Drugs van
Dream brought him back from the dead
The blues cooled Ghostbur
Fundy also died
Dont want to jynx it but I think your going to grow extremely fast
I'll do my best :D ty for the support!
I don't know I feel like dream might just have decended into madness over power... just a hunch
say this 3 times fast
homeless teletubbie torments tommy
:O
Here as a Dream apologist, I wonder where this will take me!
Lol, ngl I'm also kinda a Dream apologist, especially lately as Quackity's lore progresses. Hope you enjoyed!
"Dream the unsung hero" lol
Here for this great video i can already guess im gonna love this one.
Edit: Im pretty sure the next character is willbur. Its just kinda obvious with the poem.
Ty for watching all the way through :D Hope you're excited for the next one!
I find that l’manburg didn’t really pose a threat. They just wanted freedom. I know no one is willing to talk, but Dream never I guess listened to l’manburg they didn’t truly want to split the server they just wanted freedom. Dream just didn’t like that so he destroyed it.
I can definitely see where you're coming from, but I don't think c!Dream at that point would go to war over just "not liking" L'Manberg. While it may not have been for reasons of unity, I think there was definitely some provocation that led him to act the way he did. At the end of the day, it's not about what L'Manberg wanted, it's more about what Dream and the Greater Dream SMP wanted and from the events that transpired, clearly, L'Manberg was a problem.
L'manburgs freedom was also an excuse to sell drugs.
THIS WAS SO GOOD DUDE
thanks man!!
oh my, amazing as always! :D
thanks for the support man!
Pogchampion video
Yeaaaaaaa boiiiiiiiiiiii
How did dream smp go from "haha dnf sex jokes and look peaceful world wow" to "the imbodiement of chaos and destruction"?????
Nobody is a villan nobodody is a hero.
Tehere is one rule: Voilence make more voilence and frienship make more freidship. DreamSMP need soemone hwo gonna stop voilence and start frienship.
You'd think Ranboo would be the right man for the job, being against sides and all that, but he's too busy having memory loss *rolls eyes*
@@omelehg and now he's busy getting traumatized by JSchlatt in the after life *rolls eyes*
This is what people should understand.
Just absolutely stellar video amazing work!! This is so well edited and your voice is so cool and nice to listen to!! Will sub!! Can’t wait to see more videos :D !!!
thank you so much! I'll try to get more out soon, mostly working on shorter content rn, but glad you enjoyed this!!
What do you people think of when they think Dream smp lore?
Angst
so dream is literally the mongols now, a nomad for chaos.
The fish! XD. Good video btw
ayy ty fam :D
you deserve more subs my man
Thanks for the encouragement! I'm getting another video ready (hopefully in the next weekish?) but prob not gonna be analysis video for reasons I'll explain when I post it. Hopefully, it'll still be worth your time :D
That leads me to believe its ghostbur
this is so cool
Thanks man!
Wilburr pogg
Ayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy thanks for watching the whole way through!!
gonna have to hard disagree, wanting control is something people want sure but is that a good thing? maybe the real culprit isn't "choosing sides" as you posit but choosing to horde power. enforcing the ideology of "might makes right" and inadvertently causing the entire spiral of technoblade and tommy within the Dream SMP, causing the pain that Ramboo feels. really subjugation, might makes right, and hording power are the true villains of the dream smp
300 subs epic
Lezgo!!
Is the next person Wilbur?
Ooooooh.... maybe? ;) Ty for watching till the end :D
Cool video
ty m8! hope you enjoyed :D
So you say Tommy burning down George’s home, the home of the king is minor terrorism.
What would happen to someone if they burned down Buckingham palace? Or another place queen Elizabeth thinks of as her home.
Dream had every right to enforce removing Tommy from his own country.
That’s the only thing I disagree on about this video. Enjoy your day.
Yup.
Yes dream is homeless teletubby
o.o
Ronboo yes
Yesh
It's wilbur
Eret
hey if you move the letters in eret around you get tree, thought that was kinda swick
@@omelehg what why did I post this ?
Pogchampion video
Pogchamp!