I think blizzard just add every class their tier set without thinking, we need loudly tell that casting arcane explosion between every pack is super bad
low key feels like theres not much thought in a lot of the class changes they make because there isnt anyone at blizz thats passionate/knowledgeable about the class or specs, its happening with warrior they are basically just guessing what to do
They've mentioned both hero talents will give arcane more access to clear casting in the mage feedback forums. I wouldn't rate these changes based on your current understanding of the class without having access to all the changes and each hero spec
I think that to make a deathborne build viable, we would need that every frostbolt during icy veins gives 1 icicle and that every glacial spike increases spell damage as well, so the rotation in icy veins could be frostbolt twice into a glacial spike, which would make more sense in a talent tree where frostbolt is a filler ability, which would compensate for the short icy veins/death's chill uptime. But fundamentally, I fear that it is just an overforced build that will create anti-synergy and make a dissonant frost tree again. Since frost mage has changed significantly since Shadowlands, it really feels weird they are trying to bring Deathborne like that as glacial spike as a much more interactive and consistent gameplay.
The biggest problem I see in the arcane tree is that it is just too much clutter of talents and you practically need almost every talent and that limits your choices for the keynodes. However, removing nether tempest will most likely make arcane echo useless so that does safe one point. But I would really like if they limit the amount of talents required to go to the keynodes.
For deathborne, we do have frostfire bolt hitting harder than frostbolt and adding a dot component. There's also a talent that makes it 1.8s seconds cast before haste. Frostfire empowerment will also make it hit harder and cleave further. I guess you would go into a loop of casting frostfire bolt until you're about to trigger both excess, flurry the last frostfire bolt to spend excess frost, ice lance once to spend the excess fire, and repeat. You also get more AoE damage from the free living bomb, especially if they tune it properly for fire.
As a new mage player (mained warrior for like 15 years), i love frost, plays amazing, i love the theme of arcane and the spells look amazing, but theres so much to the spec i don't even know where to start with it.
I don’t have a lot of opinions on arcane but on frost I would love it if they had a choice node with glacial spike - it’s beloved by many but certainly not by me and it being mandatory for frost is the main reason my sub is inactive till war within. I don’t love the death borne frost bolt spam so I agree that they need to keep developing frost to truly build out a couple of alternative play styles to the current glacial-spike-is-everything model.
As someone that has only played Arcane since shadowlands up until this current season, I do miss having arcane barrage mean something other than just a rotational piece for aoe and pretty non existent for single target. They seem to want to have pieces of our rotation buff other pieces but they essentially let barrage fall to the way side, especially with harmony being removed completely from the possibility to even being used at this point and nothing to give a similar effect within the system. At this point arcane missiles shouldn't even be a button but just a proc based on arcane blast and arcane explosion since you cant even cast it without clear casting. I would love them to make barrage something more single target based for damage to give us the ability to make builds around it for single target instead of just two button spam. One thing about Arcane as someone that has played not super high keys, only averaged around 20-22 at most on key level, is that amount of time it takes to get into the rotation in AOE and or single target when you include evocation, spark, surge, and touch+barrage (didnt include nether tempest since its being removed) in moderate key levels, most of the targets are nearly dead by the time you are doing damage with semi conscious dps players in the group. Then, of all things, you have to consider what target has touch, because if it dies early then a huge portion of your damage vanishes into smoke, which really should just jump to the next closest target until it explodes. I hope they've fixed the issue with arcane battery clear casting consumption with arcane explosion too since if you ate the last one with explosion you would just sputter out missiles with the next clearcasting. Max stacks of arcane battery ( now aether attunement ), once hit, should just be there to be used when ever you decide to use instead of putting it on a timer but instead of missiles doing more damage give us a harmony esque damage buff to the next arcane barrage, so that, you actually rotate using abilities at some point in aoe.
having the s3 2 piece is big stinky, hopefully they remove it or change the timer to 60 seconds at least also happy to see reverberate go, the rng was annoying to try to react to mid pull, i think a talent thats more along the lines of "if arcane explosion damages x enemies, it generates one additional arcane charge" would fit nicely and flow with the rotation. (consistency is much nicer for me) i wonder if you'd cast a clearcasting arcane explosion even if you have max charges to get the nether precision bonus to barrage theres another frostbolt talent in deep shatter but omegalul taking deep shatter (wintertide too but thats more for the ice lance damage and the fb damage is inconsequential) great vid, hope they keep cooking with the specs and make mage a little different to keep it interesting to play
I remember the first pull on that Ravendreth dungo using Deathboner Mage on a 24, I lusted and died... I couldn't make up the damage. Got kicked after the 2nd pull because my damage was trash... canon event. I've never been kicked like that ever. The 3min CD was rough in comparison to like Boomy with Ravenous Frenzy 3min CD.
Far less buttons? I like the sound of that. I like complexity and talent options, but the number of buttons for most specs have been out of control for a long time imo.
For Frost: I worry that they're not cooking hard enough with the talent tree. The gameplay / rotation of Frost both in AoE and ST are insanely fun atm (god please add in the S3 tier set to the talent tree...), but the fact that we only change 3 spec talents between AoE and ST is a huge red flag, and I don't think any of these current changes affect that much (like you said, FB does almost no damage). I definitely don't want Frost to go so far as to be a "only does ST / only does AoE" spec, but the class tree itself is so set in stone that it's nearly dead
Its great for us to only change 3 talents (really 1 with coldest snap on most raid fights) since we are very strong in aoe and st with just that change, but yeah sucks for variety
@@cuddleslol Hmm I really like it, but I could see why someone would say that! The opening rotation is 8 globals, and if the pack is large enough / lasts a really long time, you do eventually overcap on Fingers of Frost, but since that's a sign you're pulling huge (thus getting Frozen Orb off CD super fast) then I'd argue it's a good problem to have!
@@cuddleslol flurry isnt very useful in aoe and due to the long cast times of GS/Shifting Power and the fact freezing winds is always up you do overcap fof, idk how they could remove that without making you lose a lot of ice lances when you need them though.
Maybe they over did it but I'm not gonna cry over mana gem and tempest being gone, a lot of nice changes overall but i wish they'd make missiles do more damage the longer you channel or something so we don't end up cancelling in favour of precision buff, especially since you can now only access missiles through clearcast, i feel like it should be a bigger ability
the whole point of the missiles change is so that you don't ever want to cancel it, they said they will tune it appropriately now that it's clearcasting only And thank god mana gem is gone, it was an awful unfun playstyle
@@Vindicator1998 yeah im pretty happy gem was gone since i just macroed it in and never really cared about it unless when i forgot to renew them and ran out in mid fight.
Bro I have a question for you I'm rocking frost atm and I do high st even with mythic+ build but the problem is I do literally zero aoe even though I use the frostorb+blizzard+comets+coc+frostorb+comets combo... I don't know why, it feels like my aoe spells are just doing 0 damage, why is that?
Nether tempest removed from the game…. YESSSS!! I take it but never use it unless I have all my CDs.. so dumb to delay my dmg by a GCD just so I can apply this wonky aoe modifier.
frost is already simple enough, it will be a lot more boring using the frost bolt build. but it's unlikely to be strong in m+ anyway and will only be viable on like counsel fights with 3-4 bosses
Speak for yourself. I like the frost changes so far. I didn't particularly like no ice lance, but I do like Frost bolt actually doing damage and generating more damage with procs. GS can have another 3 year break. I will not miss it.
The frost updates are super sad...they must get rid of boring glacial gameplay! And pls..that spellslinger tree...is super lazy and meh! Get rid of it and make something INNOVATIVE and fun! Like a hero tree around the perma frost pet and the arcane pet (new golem maybe?)! That would be fun! Also fractured frost is super meh. Nobody wants to play the boring Deathborn style again :( ! I rly hope they bring MORE good ideas and not that garbage for the frost spec in the addon.
I think blizzard just add every class their tier set without thinking, we need loudly tell that casting arcane explosion between every pack is super bad
If we’re gonna consume battery i feel like there’s no need for a duration
low key feels like theres not much thought in a lot of the class changes they make because there isnt anyone at blizz thats passionate/knowledgeable about the class or specs, its happening with warrior they are basically just guessing what to do
They've mentioned both hero talents will give arcane more access to clear casting in the mage feedback forums. I wouldn't rate these changes based on your current understanding of the class without having access to all the changes and each hero spec
Sunfury only provides clearcasting right after surge in about a 6s window, spellslinger def has very good access to consistent cc generation though.
@@Manather I'm sure they aren't done with that tree yet it's obviously designed first with fire in mind, arcane will get it's pass
That new arcane talent tree is horrible, you're going to feel so much weaker with how bad the points and nodes are laid out, hope they fix that
I think that to make a deathborne build viable, we would need that every frostbolt during icy veins gives 1 icicle and that every glacial spike increases spell damage as well, so the rotation in icy veins could be frostbolt twice into a glacial spike, which would make more sense in a talent tree where frostbolt is a filler ability, which would compensate for the short icy veins/death's chill uptime. But fundamentally, I fear that it is just an overforced build that will create anti-synergy and make a dissonant frost tree again. Since frost mage has changed significantly since Shadowlands, it really feels weird they are trying to bring Deathborne like that as glacial spike as a much more interactive and consistent gameplay.
The biggest problem I see in the arcane tree is that it is just too much clutter of talents and you practically need almost every talent and that limits your choices for the keynodes. However, removing nether tempest will most likely make arcane echo useless so that does safe one point. But I would really like if they limit the amount of talents required to go to the keynodes.
For deathborne, we do have frostfire bolt hitting harder than frostbolt and adding a dot component. There's also a talent that makes it 1.8s seconds cast before haste. Frostfire empowerment will also make it hit harder and cleave further.
I guess you would go into a loop of casting frostfire bolt until you're about to trigger both excess, flurry the last frostfire bolt to spend excess frost, ice lance once to spend the excess fire, and repeat. You also get more AoE damage from the free living bomb, especially if they tune it properly for fire.
I kinda wanna try out arcane on TWW since right now, arcane is just too insane to play tbh , as a more casual gamer, these changes are good imo
Despise radiant spark and nether tempest they make arcane feel bad. So happy they are finally seeing reason.
As a new mage player (mained warrior for like 15 years), i love frost, plays amazing, i love the theme of arcane and the spells look amazing, but theres so much to the spec i don't even know where to start with it.
I don’t have a lot of opinions on arcane but on frost I would love it if they had a choice node with glacial spike - it’s beloved by many but certainly not by me and it being mandatory for frost is the main reason my sub is inactive till war within. I don’t love the death borne frost bolt spam so I agree that they need to keep developing frost to truly build out a couple of alternative play styles to the current glacial-spike-is-everything model.
At least if frost becomes too bad, I'll have the courage to try out arcane
Spellslinger arcane is going to be so amazing. I can’t wait for next expac
As someone that has only played Arcane since shadowlands up until this current season, I do miss having arcane barrage mean something other than just a rotational piece for aoe and pretty non existent for single target. They seem to want to have pieces of our rotation buff other pieces but they essentially let barrage fall to the way side, especially with harmony being removed completely from the possibility to even being used at this point and nothing to give a similar effect within the system. At this point arcane missiles shouldn't even be a button but just a proc based on arcane blast and arcane explosion since you cant even cast it without clear casting. I would love them to make barrage something more single target based for damage to give us the ability to make builds around it for single target instead of just two button spam.
One thing about Arcane as someone that has played not super high keys, only averaged around 20-22 at most on key level, is that amount of time it takes to get into the rotation in AOE and or single target when you include evocation, spark, surge, and touch+barrage (didnt include nether tempest since its being removed) in moderate key levels, most of the targets are nearly dead by the time you are doing damage with semi conscious dps players in the group. Then, of all things, you have to consider what target has touch, because if it dies early then a huge portion of your damage vanishes into smoke, which really should just jump to the next closest target until it explodes.
I hope they've fixed the issue with arcane battery clear casting consumption with arcane explosion too since if you ate the last one with explosion you would just sputter out missiles with the next clearcasting. Max stacks of arcane battery ( now aether attunement ), once hit, should just be there to be used when ever you decide to use instead of putting it on a timer but instead of missiles doing more damage give us a harmony esque damage buff to the next arcane barrage, so that, you actually rotate using abilities at some point in aoe.
Harmony still exists, does seem with arcane soul barrage will be more present in the st rotation
having the s3 2 piece is big stinky, hopefully they remove it or change the timer to 60 seconds at least
also happy to see reverberate go, the rng was annoying to try to react to mid pull, i think a talent thats more along the lines of "if arcane explosion damages x enemies, it generates one additional arcane charge" would fit nicely and flow with the rotation. (consistency is much nicer for me)
i wonder if you'd cast a clearcasting arcane explosion even if you have max charges to get the nether precision bonus to barrage
theres another frostbolt talent in deep shatter but omegalul taking deep shatter (wintertide too but thats more for the ice lance damage and the fb damage is inconsequential)
great vid, hope they keep cooking with the specs and make mage a little different to keep it interesting to play
You’d just barrage then use your clearcasting on arcane explosion
I remember the first pull on that Ravendreth dungo using Deathboner Mage on a 24, I lusted and died... I couldn't make up the damage. Got kicked after the 2nd pull because my damage was trash... canon event. I've never been kicked like that ever. The 3min CD was rough in comparison to like Boomy with Ravenous Frenzy 3min CD.
skill issue
skill issue + stupid group
@@iceerush1549 lolz
My guess is that instead of using nether tempest to conserve mana before evo we'll be using orb and burden of power
Far less buttons? I like the sound of that. I like complexity and talent options, but the number of buttons for most specs have been out of control for a long time imo.
For Frost: I worry that they're not cooking hard enough with the talent tree. The gameplay / rotation of Frost both in AoE and ST are insanely fun atm (god please add in the S3 tier set to the talent tree...), but the fact that we only change 3 spec talents between AoE and ST is a huge red flag, and I don't think any of these current changes affect that much (like you said, FB does almost no damage). I definitely don't want Frost to go so far as to be a "only does ST / only does AoE" spec, but the class tree itself is so set in stone that it's nearly dead
Its great for us to only change 3 talents (really 1 with coldest snap on most raid fights) since we are very strong in aoe and st with just that change, but yeah sucks for variety
Actually we have probably the Best class tree out of all classes. Try warlock for example
Isn't aoe kinda bloated and overcaps procs though?
@@cuddleslol Hmm I really like it, but I could see why someone would say that!
The opening rotation is 8 globals, and if the pack is large enough / lasts a really long time, you do eventually overcap on Fingers of Frost, but since that's a sign you're pulling huge (thus getting Frozen Orb off CD super fast) then I'd argue it's a good problem to have!
@@cuddleslol flurry isnt very useful in aoe and due to the long cast times of GS/Shifting Power and the fact freezing winds is always up you do overcap fof, idk how they could remove that without making you lose a lot of ice lances when you need them though.
Maybe they over did it but I'm not gonna cry over mana gem and tempest being gone, a lot of nice changes overall but i wish they'd make missiles do more damage the longer you channel or something so we don't end up cancelling in favour of precision buff, especially since you can now only access missiles through clearcast, i feel like it should be a bigger ability
I think they could merge nether tempest with touch of magi instead of spark, we just got new animation for spark
the whole point of the missiles change is so that you don't ever want to cancel it, they said they will tune it appropriately now that it's clearcasting only
And thank god mana gem is gone, it was an awful unfun playstyle
@@Vindicator1998 yeah im pretty happy gem was gone since i just macroed it in and never really cared about it unless when i forgot to renew them and ran out in mid fight.
Reverberate removed? grrrrrrrrr......
Bro I have a question for you
I'm rocking frost atm and I do high st even with mythic+ build but the problem is I do literally zero aoe even though I use the frostorb+blizzard+comets+coc+frostorb+comets combo... I don't know why, it feels like my aoe spells are just doing 0 damage, why is that?
Nether tempest removed from the game…. YESSSS!! I take it but never use it unless I have all my CDs.. so dumb to delay my dmg by a GCD just so I can apply this wonky aoe modifier.
Frost - some of their intentions are to make easy options right? Maybe the deathborne playstyle is for that purpose - make it simple
frost is already simple enough, it will be a lot more boring using the frost bolt build. but it's unlikely to be strong in m+ anyway and will only be viable on like counsel fights with 3-4 bosses
Speak for yourself. I like the frost changes so far. I didn't particularly like no ice lance, but I do like Frost bolt actually doing damage and generating more damage with procs. GS can have another 3 year break. I will not miss it.
The frost updates are super sad...they must get rid of boring glacial gameplay!
And pls..that spellslinger tree...is super lazy and meh!
Get rid of it and make something INNOVATIVE and fun! Like a hero tree around the perma frost pet and the arcane pet (new golem maybe?)!
That would be fun!
Also fractured frost is super meh. Nobody wants to play the boring Deathborn style again :( !
I rly hope they bring MORE good ideas and not that garbage for the frost spec in the addon.