When I read about how Roland was treated by Gay that alone told me that her leadership was questionable. I came to the conclusion that she was probably envious of his intelligence and his accomplishments. She was not qualified for that position.
she sought instant gratification, but finally she received the retribution of consequences of her own actions,, and will ultimately be remembered as her permanent shame. Professor Fryer, on the other hand, has remained constant in his integrity, which only confirms and adds to his credibility.
@@jyfy7926what she is is Samuel L Jackson in Jango Unchained. A black face enforcing the white liberal ideology on other blacks people who don’t stay in line. And in return she has been given privilege and status. That’s who Claudine Gay is.
I totally see people who are interpreting signals as a “function of their prior beliefs “ when dealing with the indigenous population. It is something that all parties need to be more aware of. It lends a degree of understanding.
I am realizing that i'm growing increasingly in-love with Roland Fryer!! He makes so much damn sense. He's doesn't deny where he came from and all the help that he probably got along the way but he's also a die-hard economist and wants to deal with data and incentive structures. I'm not an economist but I can totally appreciate and respect that. What this interview (and the previous EconTalk interview he did) proves is that actualizing academic data and facts into policy is really, really hard. Policy makers or institutions with money (i.e. his employer Harvard) rarely want to follow what academics suggest or what actual data tells them. We don't want to do stuff that's really hard, or expensive. We would rather do simple things that make some people feel better, while we just kick the proverbial can down the road.
Roland is always a pleasure to listen to. It's a shame that voices like his are drowned out and suppressed by voices like Claudine Gay (who tried to end his career).
@michaelfortunato1860 while I completely agree with your assessment as the current fact of the matter, my guess is that a man like Dr. Fryer would immediately change that way of life!
He (Roland) has already been character assassinated back at Haaahvard by a student and C.G. it would be an institutional disaster a lot like how the education dept didn't get anything done except "resistance/friction"in the previous Administration Orange Man Evil
It's amazing how the Dr. Gay fiasco has helped uncover this gem of a man! Roland Fryer is a true and insightful academic who utilizes his research and happenstance to improve society at large.
I so appreciate Roland Fryer's brilliance, his ability to see through the BS, and immediately call it! As Glen Loury said in an interview. "He does not tolerate fools gladly". Also I would say, that all he suggests here could be quite simple to implement, but I think most people and companies feel comfortable with the familiar, even if in some way its been uncomfortable and a source of complaining. Many would rather keep things as is... I'd say this is true in so many institutions, including government.
An academic investigation into racism and discrimination worthy of what an institution like the Harvard of old would be expected to study - Hope Roland continues on his trajectory of research and practical solutions for societal benefit.
My respect only continues to grow for Roland. I had no idea he was that far down the 'everything is racist' road. But, he looked at the data, questioned all his preconceived notions, and changed his mindset. This is a rarity among people today.
He was never fired. He’s still a professor at Harvard his research lab program was completely gutted though. Furthermore, Claudine Gay didn’t have him me too’d. She voted on harse punishments after his me too light incident.
@@calikeisha365 Claudine Gay (who shockingly has only 11 peer reviewed articles) and Prof. Lawrence Bobo (a Black professor whose parents were doctors in Nashville) went outside the Harvard recommended guidelines!! The guidelines recommended sensitivity training!! Closing the lab is an attack on Fryer's research!! Gay and Bobo research agenda is systemic discrimination-just like she blamed race for the cause of her dismissal even though the White female president of University of Pennsylvania was also forced to resign for her testimony before Congress. Fryer has since started a private venture capital firm with many of the students who worked at the lab and the firm is doing well. You can't keep a good man down!! Now they may be looking at Bobo to see if there any chinks in his amour.
He should be secretary of education or president. He is a genius and a seeker of truth. He'll follow the data wherever it leads. The epitome of intellectual rigor and honesty.
I think it was Malcom X who said there is nothing more dangerous than a white liberal. Lyndon Johnson proved that and certain people have been paying a huge price for that for 50 plus years. Just found Roland and love hearing him speak!
What Prof. Fryer is suggesting Ivy League schools should do about going and finding, then developing their talent base is what "affirmative action" TRULY means - not quotas and mandates. The same is true for any organization looking for its future leaders.
Right! Provide kids with opportunities from the start. Also, figure out why kids are not doing well from the moment you notice that they are not doing well.
@@dinkster1729 So fix black people and less educated white people will not be upset when blacks join Asians in getting jobs that whites cannot get through merit? The last time whites found themselves less skilled than blacks, they created something called the KKK. Roland's grandmother would say "Avergage" whites get very angry and hostile when "Above Average" blacks have a bigger houses than they have. Last, and how do we account for the "parents in 1980 who didn't want blacks in their livingroom"? Do we think those parents miraculously become fair when they are leading a job interview? The solution cannot be onesided, because people who have the control can always move the goal line if their "beliefs" are challenged.
How do you deal with discipline or lack of discipline of students that are hell bent on disrupting the learning environment in the inner city school system?
This is a good question. You should write to the psychology department at your local university and ask them, what their latest breakthrough discoveries on this topic are.
@@michaelfortunato1860 I keep putting links in this reply to all kinds of evidence including statistics, video, reports but youtube removed them. If you want evidence all you have to do is a little research and you will find mounds of data and info.
largely by looking into the student's family. Children causing disruptions or acting out is due to their environment and the lack of having "something" whether familial wealth or necessities.
Roland Fryer and his colleagues proved you could raise the grades of inner city kids to equal or better the national average . My question is , with a back drop of unbeleivable poor grades for American kids , why arnt we throwing gobs of money and recources into the techniques they used to bring inner city grades up ?
Sadly, there is a lot of institutional inertia that makes innovation difficult in the education space! But we love to see innovative and creative ways to teach kids better. Have you seen the previous Fryer episode, the Lemov episodes, and the Green episode? All amazing.
@@econtalkwithruss Thanks for answering . I beleive i caught the first interview , i try to catch Fryer if he has a youtube , there isnt much of Roland as id like . And i must have heard his solution in that interview , which is why i am a big supporter of his work . I cant understand if grades are so poor for American students , why they arnt en mass charging to give huge money and support to pushing these techniques he and his colleagues proved worked. Something is very wrong in the system
No only that! But with Gay being exposed it now puts a more sympathetic light on how he was railroaded. As you may know, he started a venture capital firm with several of the students who worked at his lab and the firm is doing quite well
This interview was insightful and refreshing! Absolute banger. Russ you gotta bring on Tim Roughgarden sometime. He would also be very cool to listen to.
I just started watching many videos on Roland Fryer, and I have decided one, I wish his grandmother was still alive, And two, I wish she had her own RUclips channel.
I like how he's a social scientist who has rigor in methodology and math, he loves the truth and seeks it, and cares enough to do rigorous relevant work outside of academia.
I don’t know about the academic world but in eg private companies or sports you either produce or you don’t irrespective of any other factors. I’m not saying discrimination doesn’t exist in those fields but it’s less so because you can’t argue with the numbers.
They are basically talking about unlocking a child’s potential. And, setting up opportunities for adult success without automatically blaming racism. People can overcome racism and or poverty!
How did black people overcome racism from 1776-1965? What did they do? What you're suggesting is that if black Americans run into a racist door, then they should just keep going to other doors until they find a door willing to provide them with an opportunity. Then onece inside, if they run into Sean Hannity, then they should leave and find a job where no Sean Hannity is employeed? If they cannot find that prestine, no Sean Hannity, situation, then just suck it up. When whites look at "the hood" they dont quite understand what they see. 80% of the people get up and go into the world and knock on doors until one opens, even if it's a horribble environment once inside. The other 20% says I'm going to create a black market economy right here where I'm accepted. I'm not kissing these people's asses if they hate me. The black male from the hood, like 50 Cent, doesnt even have a victim mentality. They are singularly fouced on material gain. They are willing to hustle, lose their lives or go to prison rather than deal with a bunch of foolishness they cannot control. Why go into a workplace and deal with Sean Hannity? They would say: Who needs that aggrivation? They'd rather get shot at and play dodge the cops. Roland's grandmother said: "I'd rather live with bullets flying by my house than go live next to Sean Hannity". It's so much deeper than what white Americans understand.
Just wanna say, as I “white” person, it never occurred to me to send my eating preferences to someone who invited me for a meal. I do t know who does that but it isn’t a race thing.
What Professor Fryer says about employment in the early 60s comports with my own recollection from being in the workforce in that era. Pre- the major civil rights legislation of the mid-60s, It was not hard to recognize then that Black employees at every level were superior to their colleagues. They had to be; otherwise, they wouldn't have been hired or promoted into that position.
Just wow! It's such a pity that corporations are more likely to listen to Ibram X. Kendi 🤦♂Don't think I would have found out about Roland Fryer if Claudine Gay hadn't shat the bed.
I’ve never heard about you before until the Gay debacle but I believe you would be a more capable president than her, and now learning that she was instrumental on your firing….. I hope your honor will be restore. Stay honorable and faithful.
At about 1 hr into the interview, Fryer said if they intervene at Grade 9 or 6 to give opportunities to the bright children who are black, there will be a bigger supply of black high achievers who will be qualified to teach at Ivy League unis. This sounds like the grammar school system in the UK. And I think grammar schools should be established in all the UK cities to give opportunities to the bright children in the UK, regardless of race, to excel. At the moment, there's only London and Kent that have grammar schools for the bright children.
In the US there’s a program like this called Prep for Prep, which intervenes at the 5th, 6th, and 7th grade (middle school) level; they spend those years supplementing the education of high-potential minority kids with the goal of getting them placed at top prep schools (private 9th-12th grades). It’s an extremely successful program and the kids who come out of it tend to do very well, but it’s not open to every minority kid; there’s a whole application and recommendation process to screen out kids who are unlikely to do well.
But why only minority kids? Such programs should be available to all disadvantaged kids, regardless of race. Proportionately, we can expect a higher ratio of minority children to benefit, but we should never use race as the criteria for providing children with a better opportunity within our society. The UK grammar school system was excellent from this point of view. The only valid criticism of it was that it did not really make space for "late starters" but this could have been readily addressed through voluntary testing at age 12 and 13.
Dr. Freyer is an important contributor to the issues on the table here. 3 problems: 1. almost no one is as knowledgeable OR willing/able to apply the knowledge Dr. Freyer has. Just like all physicians or any other profession are not equal. I.E. the validity of stat heavy ideals depends entirely on who's driving! (He isn't consulting with every organization looking to deal with these challenges). 2. Suppose his socio/economic knowledge = the atomic theory... Yes he's brilliant - but now we know there is this this thing called sub-atomic particle/theory. I. E. Even Dr Freyer doesn't know what he doesn't know. Ergo, it is dangerous to be as rapurously in love with anyone's mind as so many here seem to be. I. E. Never eject critical doubt. 3. Take 1 column off of ANY spread sheet & see how it changes... I've seen that very thing completely change the trajectory of a document. Not suggesting Dr. Freyer would purposefully omit anything, although I've seen this happen. I'm saying re-read the end of #1& #2. These are just my off the top thoughts. Nevermind the history he carefully cherry picks to support his pov.
Professor Fryer, I suspect the applicant population at Ivy League schools is strongly defined by family income level. Has there been any data analysis on this? I'm theorizing these universities have few white applicants from very low income families. Poorer children are blocked from opportunities... regardless of race.
Roland Fryer is a human gem because he is a truth seeker. I think our politics are very different because I am very conservatives, but I believe that kids in flyover country, both black and white deserve a better opportunity to gain access to these ivy league schools that have become echo chambers for left-wing ideology. They are all being discriminated against because of their geography and culture. After all, it's flyover country, right?
Wow to see Russ's face when Roland tells his personal experience of white racism and when Roland tells you his personal experience with overt discrimination growing up. Things have changed since the 1980's, 1990's and it has improved but there was impacts of "racism" -- those who could not get jobs I know due to RACE, are able to make living now. There is still actions of discrimination I live it - view it.
How do you find the diamonds in the rough exactly? I agree schooling is absolutely where the change needs to happen and starting at a young level. At the same time, what are Roland Fryer's thoughts on how "culture" affects all this because I believe it is a major factor and I'm not sure you can get anywhere before you get a grasp on that. I mean the type of culture where it's seen as unblack or too white to succeed in school or it's cool to be a criminal.
If the goal of hiring a person into your company, or just bringing anyone new to your life, is to maximize the health and success of such endeavor, and the value for the lives of the parties involved; then perhaps trust is a much more important variable to optimize than diversity. Trust being a subjective value and perhaps supported by other subjective underlying moral values, may well be assessed and chosen for in very biased ways to be reflected the applicant screening methods used.
I wish the discussion pounted out rhe many nuances of life in black America. By no means is it monolithic. A one parent family has different experiences depending on location. In this Federal system, place matters. Funding is arbitrary. We should take a lesson from the NFL which distributes revenues so that all teams can compete against each other satisfactorily. At the minimum they all wear the same quality uniforms. Education should be like that as well. It is not complicated, after all , formal education is as old as ancient Greece. If theres one thing above all that should change , it is the student to faculty ratio. The ratio should be no more than 15 to 1.
That example is exactly what the system is designed to never create , meritocracy, real competition, and better outcomes without any fingers on the scale
@@jarvisaddison8560So is it not possible to have both competition and meritocracy but to also say as a society we won’t allow children to live below a certain level? How is that not ethical?
@@calikeisha365 We cannot have both if as a society we predetermine the outcomes of competition and meritocracy. Unless I did not understand your point
Interesting, Dr. Fryer attributes a theory of discrimination to Kenneth Arrow, which describes almost exactly the same theory from Thomas Sowell - who labeled this type of Discrimination as type A1, in his book “Discrimination and Disparities”. I have to believe that Dr. Sowell’s book preceded Kenneth Arrow. Am i wrong?
Kenneth Arrow died in 2017, Thomas Sowell’s Discrimination and Disparities was published in 2018. Great book, but I’m thinking Sowell’s classifications of the types of discrimination was informed by Kenneth Arrow, not the other way around.
Roland is too simplistic in his solution to an alternative to affirmative action. It's not just school, it's culture. Listen to his description of his grandmother. He saw her work three jobs and he himself would be studying till 2 am in the morning. She taught him what was right and wrong, so he didn't end up shooting anyone like his best friend did. She may have wasted gas trying to get the cheapest gas price, but she was teaching him frugality. Sounds like she was loving but stern and didn't take any crap. And the stories that I read about how Roland got in trouble at Harvard, sounds like Roland expected excellence and hard work from those working under him and would be just as stern and demanding as his grandmother. She helped mold him into the person that could transform his innate curiosity and intelligence into success. And no simple feeder school system starting with 9th graders can mimic that molding. What might be able to partially change things is an earlier exposure to a better school system, such as the successful charter schools described in Thomas Sowell's book. So I was very disappointed that Roland didn't say anything about school choice. We have a public school system controlled by teacher's unions that push a knee onto the educational neck of poor minority students. That, in addition to the fatherlessness incentivized by the government, is the primary source of structural racism.
We have a growing epidemic of fatherlessness in America. Approximately one in four American children are without a father. Is this too the fault of the government?
The fact that Ivy leagues would be involved in education implies charter schools so he did not need to mention it explicitly. I am not a fan of Ivy League schools building K-12 schools. This should be a black issue that is black funded, owned, and operated. The white guys can help but not own. Blacks need to be self-reliant. When good kids are produced, the Ivy League schools and others will show up. I do agree with the culture component but I am not as harsh. Wasted talent happens everywhere but too often among blacks. For example public schools have to teach everyone. They cant turn away bad kids who disrupt class, so everyone suffer, no one learns, and no one is accountable. Culture is to be blamed because there is a lack of discipline in these kids and that was nonexistent decades ago.
@@AdamGeest why yes for some aspect and you can divide it by race. Starting with drafting men into the world war, collecting the gold/wealth and forcing women out of the women’s away from raising the children and labeling as herionism aka Rosie the Riviter. All of a sudden women pushed into the work force and now today is there really a choice for the women/family to raise the children or is the state by forced economics. People struggling thought okay some have had a harder time okaying welfare for mothers but many mothers made it a generational culture off living off the system the gov helped along the poor habits by encouraging poor music/rap choice or they chose created themselves? Probably a little of both. Then you have a destroyed cultural values. Now they are doing the same with country music.
Here's a suggestion: Congress should pass a law that all academic institutions that are ranked in the national top 30 establish high schools using 5% of their revenue, to be cost shared 50% by their state government, to establish high schools in underserved neighborhoods within 30 miles of their campus. Graduate students in those institutions' School of Ed must teach two courses (or two classes of one course) as a prerequisite for their graduate Education degree. Students graduating in the top 10% of those high schools will be shortlisted for acceptance by those universities.
I understand and do not disputed your empirical thesis on the items mentioned. I do however doubt the sincerity of these institutions to truly impact "supply" in a positive way.
I think it strange to have a discussion about admission to university in America and not touch "legacy" admissions and all the elite sports places that go to sailing and fencing, etc. I imagine there are a whole load of kids of every ethnicity with merit that never get a chance because of these policies.
The fact is that discrimination is an inherent feature of human nature. The thing is that when the individual discerns its existence in the relationships of their endeavors, the result of the effect of the perceived discrimination would depend largely on the reaction of the person. In other words, the old adage that the answer brings the conflict closer would apply in probably eighty percent of the time..
12.25 Could you look at randomly selected other groupings ie not by race, and check what disparities there are. Thereby coming up with a rough idea how accurate it usually is or what about residual disparity. You could use single race groups, randomly split multiple times to test & calulate this disparity benchmark for an average and maximum value. Then you could take these values out and know how much was on average due to racism and the minimum amount due to racism.
I think Roland's views of racism in the 1980s are a bit exaggerated, based on my 75 years of living in America; his example may even be evidence that anti-racism underlies the interracial social character in his neighborhood--of course many black Americans may have also disliked whites in their house, etc.
at what point or how much importance do we put on the family structure related to the level of success people have in life? isn't it true that children with two parents are more successful, how much more successful are they when at least one of the parents work, both attend church, both are involved in their community what other factors could we look at such as how does having a former antifa member as a parent impact a childs success and outlook on life; it seems we are still missing the forest for the trees; strong families = successful children and nothing is going to change that including perceived and/or real systemic racism; families are key then books or the internet is next; you could take any child to the middle of nowhere with just a good family and internet access and that child could easily be trained to know as much as roland, russ or myself; but of course taking the easy way as Roland points out is not only the path most tacken by intellectuals it is also the one that benefits the elites the greatest; we couldn't have an educated public could we; one that might actually question how is it that every politician goes in with little money and in 30 years they are multi millionaires; what if we asked how is it that universities and college in general is so outlandishly expensive to the point of being obscene; what if they asked that and much more . . .
I wonder why his grandmother didn’t take him into her home when his father went to prison? And, if he felt like he could do anything, thanks to the grandmother, then why would he even consider a life of selling drugs or stealing? I am sure he would have known he would be letting himself and letting his grandmother down. It emphasizes factors outside family and community as a reason he became successful. His ideas or solutions also lie with these outside factors.
55:00 Sad. Change standards or applicants? They’d rather keep their endowments, complain about “societal ills”, tsk,tsk away…and look out the ivory tower window and remain elite and privileged, GRATITUDE be damned.
His comment abt the grandmother interpreting the change being set on the counter instead of in her hand as racism was so familiar to me. As a white kid who was raised around and a lot BY black persons I experienced this time and time again. They call some act as racist but I know that white ppl have done the exact same thing to me. So I learned at an early age that many black ppl have been raised with a predisposition to see racism in even the most innocent of actions. That's a fact. And not saying that their parents & grandparents didn't have cause to think that way in their day but it's sad that that has been passed down to these younger generations who have very likely never REALLY experienced racism at all. And nobody can tell me otherwise because I've seen it, lived it first hand. I'm in my 60's. I've seen both ends of the spectrum going from the 60's to today. I always ask them, "If it's racism when they do it to you then what is it when they do it to me?" I have yet to have anyone able to answer that.
People discriminate against people on other grounds besides race, you know. Disabiliity? Income level? Age? Weight? Height? Accent? Ethnic group? The list goes on and on.
Public education created its program for the kids who has a lot of prime education from parents. Many low income kids are not from this category. Is this an informative discrimination?
Pretty soon we can bring AI online to do true blind discrimination checks if humans do it honestly and don't interfere. Feed ALL of the information to the AI on the loan or school applications but leave the names and race identifying information OUT.
Absolutely fascinating but misses 3 elephants in the room; 1. If I went to a failed public grade school and high school, it's too late to give me a chance to compete. The original sin of American education is its system of monopoly government schools. 2. All voluntary human relationships form around myriad subjective and objective values. If that pretty girl says no to my proposal, I might imagine that she unfairly discriminated against me. She has something I want, and I wrongly feel that somehow I have a right to it. WRONG. I need to find someone else. Hiring is no different. More detailed measurement is an illusion. 3. Most attempts at diversity training will fail for reasons that Roland states. The only solution that works in the long run is that organizations who misprice talent will be outcompeted by those who do a better job at pricing. That's why the Fortune 500 turns over every 25 years. The first mistake of any racist is to believe that race is important. Humans have evolved (in many cultures) from a situation where tribal identity was crucial to survival, to one where, unlike all other species, individual identity (choices made after birth, NOT birth characteristics) is paramount. It's the diversity of individuals that matters.
@@econtalkwithruss Yet he thinks that children who have spent 12 years learning little should have a chance to enter the ivy league. A recipe for failure.
Fryer would agree that individuals (regardless of race) can have a lot to contribute to the world. He emphasizes that everyone is better off if very bright individuals can reach their potential, rather than encountering arbitrary barriers.
Once you allow/require organizations to discriminate on race, you have opened Pandora's Box, and now are driving intellectual society into a frenzy trying to analyze it that will have no end until society returns to merit as the basis for selection. This is not trivial, because discrimination occurs at the top positions in organizations just as well as it can at the lower levels. Academics/Intellectuals don't understand this, because they presume (wrongly) that because they are the intellectuals, it obviously could never happen to themselves (an attitude of having tenure, say) Discriminating on race even once can turn an organization completely upside down! That is because the person getting selected is not just marginally unqualified, they are just as often completely unqualified. For example, this would be like promoting a good accountant to now becoming a co-pilot on a commercial airliner! Believe me, sh!t like this really happens to fill quotas, and HR departments don't give a damn, they are not going to allow themselves to get red-flagged by government enforcement agencies.
I'm a Mathematician Statistician and academic .Every thing Fryer says is technically correct. However he tries to catch the fly and he misses the elephant. Most corporations and universities do not understand how to measure discrimination and are ran by activists therefore they will never rest until all positions are filled with quotas proportional to demographics in popoluation. For example airlines want to have 50% female pilots. This nevel will happen because biological differences unless we live in a totitarian society. Tomas Sowell explain race disparities in outcome are cultural and normal. I dont know if Fryer is naive or playing dumb because he has been himself indoctrinated been in Harvard for decades to believe discrimination is the most important problem to solve in the World. It is not. And the ways uneducated or ill educated people are trying to solve this alledged problem .is dangerous. Defunding police based in false assumptions like systemic racism resulted in thousand of more black people murdered in the country because increase in crime . And affirmative action is real systemic discrimination as ruled by the Supreme Court. Today academia has been taken by activist that build their careers with this victimhood and reversse racism mentality like Claudine Gay that cancelled Fryer himself. And they censor research that does not fall into their narrative. Academia in the US is in decline and this is real and serious problem. Fryer has talemt he should grow a pair and quit Harvard he would be able to thrive and shine.
Discrimination v. disparity: I won't hire people who didn't go to Ivy league school. That isn't racist or sexist. But is the racial disparity caused by racial discrimination?
He acts as if there aren't twice as many whites than blacks in poverty in the US. If you found a way to go into poor neighborhoods and get the diamonds in the rough, you would have 2 additional white applicants for every black applicant added to the pool. What he really wants is discrimination on who gets help in the poor communities.
@RD-mj6to It's not that, he wants an actual model developed, and he does model rigorously. With your stats you also forget how neighborhoods vary in composition. The model needs to work and account for varying cases rigorously. If race isn't even a factor when other factors are considered, it's eliminated as a factor from the model.
Mr Fryer we are very sorry for what Harvard did to you ! I personally believe if we do harm to anybody it will come right back to our self and hate to think or to our love ones 🤷🏼♀️I %100 believe this and look what happened to mis Gay 🤷🏼♀️this is what nature or great power or god ! What ever it is ? It Does 😏
She stayed at Harvard and is keeping her $ 900,000 a year salary. God won't do human's job. She needs to be removed from academia and return all her Harvard money due to fraud and conspiracy to comit fraud. And then go to jail.
@@adamb.9968 didn’t he get fired? As far as I read and heard about him , he was a great teacher and not very much in to universities rules and regulation more in to teaching then politics of universities ! Am I wrong ?and we all know what kind of president, Gay was ! All politic no great education! You know how much money they were getting from rich Muslim Arab countries? No wonder they produced NAZIS 🤷🏼♀️
Kudos to Prof Roland Fryer. He is a national treasure who was unfairly cancelled by Harvard's Claudine Gay and others to their permanent shame.
When I read about how Roland was treated by Gay that alone told me that her leadership was questionable. I came to the conclusion that she was probably envious of his intelligence and his accomplishments. She was not qualified for that position.
she sought instant gratification, but finally she received the retribution of consequences of her own actions,, and will ultimately be remembered as her permanent shame.
Professor Fryer, on the other hand, has remained constant in his integrity, which only confirms and adds to his credibility.
@@jyfy7926what she is is Samuel L Jackson in Jango Unchained. A black face enforcing the white liberal ideology on other blacks people who don’t stay in line. And in return she has been given privilege and status. That’s who Claudine Gay is.
I totally see people who are interpreting signals as a “function of their prior beliefs “ when dealing with the indigenous population. It is something that all parties need to be more aware of.
It lends a degree of understanding.
@happy2759 Has she? She's still working at Harvard making the same salary. $900,000 per year.
I am realizing that i'm growing increasingly in-love with Roland Fryer!! He makes so much damn sense. He's doesn't deny where he came from and all the help that he probably got along the way but he's also a die-hard economist and wants to deal with data and incentive structures. I'm not an economist but I can totally appreciate and respect that. What this interview (and the previous EconTalk interview he did) proves is that actualizing academic data and facts into policy is really, really hard. Policy makers or institutions with money (i.e. his employer Harvard) rarely want to follow what academics suggest or what actual data tells them. We don't want to do stuff that's really hard, or expensive. We would rather do simple things that make some people feel better, while we just kick the proverbial can down the road.
Roland is always a pleasure to listen to. It's a shame that voices like his are drowned out and suppressed by voices like Claudine Gay (who tried to end his career).
Exactly. Her resignation letter was disgusting considering what she did to him
Dr. Fryer should be Harvard’s president. Hands down.
University presidents are glad-handing fund-raisers. We do not waste our good minds on administrative jobs.
Wouldn't that be the beginning of a genuinely wonderful world!
@michaelfortunato1860 while I completely agree with your assessment as the current fact of the matter, my guess is that a man like Dr. Fryer would immediately change that way of life!
The most lucid and inspiring conversation about this topic that I’ve heard in this country. God bless Prof Fryer!
Lucid is the word I was looking for as well!
Would love to watch this fellow discuss these issues with Dr Thomas Sowell
He is the next Thomas Sowell! Thank God for him!
Absolutely..
I love when logic is used instead of emotion. Awesome points, Roland Fryer! :)
Why can't I live in a universe where Roland Fryer is secretary of education? It would be SO much better.
It would be better if there was no Department of Education at all.
He (Roland) has already been character assassinated back at Haaahvard by a student and C.G. it would be an institutional disaster a lot like how the education dept didn't get anything done except "resistance/friction"in the previous Administration Orange Man Evil
💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯
It's amazing how the Dr. Gay fiasco has helped uncover this gem of a man! Roland Fryer is a true and insightful academic who utilizes his research and happenstance to improve society at large.
If the board of Trustees were smart they would appoint Roland Fryer President of Harvard.
I also became interested in Dr. Fryer after Gay’s descent to self inflicted failure.
Karma
"I heard it's a motherfucker"
~ Roland G. Fryer Jr.
Sowell, Woodson, Steele, Elder, Riley, Fryer have solutions to problems many ppl don’t want solved b/c their jobs depend on the status quo.
What is their solution? I cannot wait to hear this?
💯💯💯💯💯💯
I so appreciate Roland Fryer's brilliance, his ability to see through the BS, and immediately call it! As Glen Loury said in an interview. "He does not tolerate fools gladly". Also I would say, that all he suggests here could be quite simple to implement, but I think most people and companies feel comfortable with the familiar, even if in some way its been uncomfortable and a source of complaining. Many would rather keep things as is... I'd say this is true in so many institutions, including government.
He reminds me of Richard Feynman. Same self-deprecating sense of humor. Same razor-like spirit. A mensch, not a skin
I have a newly found respect for economics after listening to this conversation.
An academic investigation into racism and discrimination worthy of what an institution like the Harvard of old would be expected to study - Hope Roland continues on his trajectory of research and practical solutions for societal benefit.
Thanks Roland for finally getting a better mic
My respect only continues to grow for Roland. I had no idea he was that far down the 'everything is racist' road. But, he looked at the data, questioned all his preconceived notions, and changed his mindset. This is a rarity among people today.
Great explanation of how “Low Resolution” understanding of issues combined with biased “intuition” is how we normally approach issues.
Loved the convo! Shoutout to Russ for letting Dr. Fryer speak freely without interrupting.
This is a real 200 iq conversation. Inspiring work
Claudine “depends on the context” Gay had him “me too’d” and fired from Harvard !
He was never fired. He’s still a professor at Harvard his research lab program was completely gutted though. Furthermore, Claudine Gay didn’t have him me too’d. She voted on harse punishments after his me too light incident.
@@calikeisha365 Claudine Gay (who shockingly has only 11 peer reviewed articles) and Prof. Lawrence Bobo (a Black professor whose parents were doctors in Nashville) went outside the Harvard recommended guidelines!! The guidelines recommended sensitivity training!! Closing the lab is an attack on Fryer's research!! Gay and Bobo research agenda is systemic discrimination-just like she blamed race for the cause of her dismissal even though the White female president of University of Pennsylvania was also forced to resign for her testimony before Congress. Fryer has since started a private venture capital firm with many of the students who worked at the lab and the firm is doing well. You can't keep a good man down!! Now they may be looking at Bobo to see if there any chinks in his amour.
"suspended" for two years.
@@airborneranger-ret With pay? That would just give an intellectual more time to think and dream up more research efforts, right?
@@calikeisha365after years a women comes out-others said it never happened , it was a witch hunt by gay! Typical lib playbook
Outright one of the best exon talk ever.
Roland Fryer is amazing. period
Claudine “depends on the context” Gay had him “me too’d” and fired from Harvard !
Suspended for two years hes back now actually.@@hauntedhose
@@philmaro84 ok thanks
He should be secretary of education or president. He is a genius and a seeker of truth. He'll follow the data wherever it leads. The epitome of intellectual rigor and honesty.
I think it was Malcom X who said there is nothing more dangerous than a white liberal. Lyndon Johnson proved that and certain people have been paying a huge price for that for 50 plus years. Just found Roland and love hearing him speak!
He called them a wolf in sheep’s clothing -
What Prof. Fryer is suggesting Ivy League schools should do about going and finding, then developing their talent base is what "affirmative action" TRULY means - not quotas and mandates. The same is true for any organization looking for its future leaders.
Right! Provide kids with opportunities from the start. Also, figure out why kids are not doing well from the moment you notice that they are not doing well.
@@dinkster1729 So fix black people and less educated white people will not be upset when blacks join Asians in getting jobs that whites cannot get through merit? The last time whites found themselves less skilled than blacks, they created something called the KKK. Roland's grandmother would say "Avergage" whites get very angry and hostile when "Above Average" blacks have a bigger houses than they have. Last, and how do we account for the "parents in 1980 who didn't want blacks in their livingroom"? Do we think those parents miraculously become fair when they are leading a job interview? The solution cannot be onesided, because people who have the control can always move the goal line if their "beliefs" are challenged.
Great conversation!
How do you deal with discipline or lack of discipline of students that are hell bent on disrupting the learning environment in the inner city school system?
This is a good question. You should write to the psychology department at your local university and ask them, what their latest breakthrough discoveries on this topic are.
You have evidence of this?
@@michaelfortunato1860 I keep putting links in this reply to all kinds of evidence including statistics, video, reports but youtube removed them. If you want evidence all you have to do is a little research and you will find mounds of data and info.
largely by looking into the student's family. Children causing disruptions or acting out is due to their environment and the lack of having "something" whether familial wealth or necessities.
@@michaelfortunato1860 ruclips.net/video/na4V7RjbW48/видео.htmlsi=qN7Kdq8S_TkvHu9o
I love Prof Fryer’s Grandmother who (@30 min) is said to have had “two responses” to his observations: It was either obvious or wrong!! 😂
Roland Fryer and his colleagues proved you could raise the grades of inner city kids to equal or better the national average .
My question is , with a back drop of unbeleivable poor grades for American kids , why arnt we throwing gobs of money and recources into the techniques they used to bring inner city grades up ?
Sadly, there is a lot of institutional inertia that makes innovation difficult in the education space! But we love to see innovative and creative ways to teach kids better. Have you seen the previous Fryer episode, the Lemov episodes, and the Green episode? All amazing.
@@econtalkwithruss
Thanks for answering . I beleive i caught the first interview , i try to catch Fryer if he has a youtube , there isnt much of Roland as id like .
And i must have heard his solution in that interview , which is why i am a big supporter of his work .
I cant understand if grades are so poor for American students , why they arnt en mass charging to give huge money and support to pushing these techniques he and his colleagues proved worked.
Something is very wrong in the system
@@econtalkwithrusssorry kinda new here what are the 0:00 Lemov and Green episodes?
Would like to listen
Feeder schools are a great idea. Don't forget rural folks of all ethnicities.
Glad he survived the knife in the back from Bobo and Gay
No only that! But with Gay being exposed it now puts a more sympathetic light on how he was railroaded. As you may know, he started a venture capital firm with several of the students who worked at his lab and the firm is doing quite well
@@jabaltariq4606 glad to hear that
This interview was insightful and refreshing! Absolute banger. Russ you gotta bring on Tim Roughgarden sometime. He would also be very cool to listen to.
Glad you liked the conversation! Russ loves to hear suggestions - email him at russroberts at gmail.com.
I just started watching many videos on Roland Fryer, and I have decided one, I wish his grandmother was still alive, And two, I wish she had her own RUclips channel.
I like how he's a social scientist who has rigor in methodology and math, he loves the truth and seeks it, and cares enough to do rigorous relevant work outside of academia.
I don’t know about the academic world but in eg private companies or sports you either produce or you don’t irrespective of any other factors. I’m not saying discrimination doesn’t exist in those fields but it’s less so because you can’t argue with the numbers.
They are basically talking about unlocking a child’s potential. And, setting up opportunities for adult success without automatically blaming racism. People can overcome racism and or poverty!
How did black people overcome racism from 1776-1965? What did they do? What you're suggesting is that if black Americans run into a racist door, then they should just keep going to other doors until they find a door willing to provide them with an opportunity. Then onece inside, if they run into Sean Hannity, then they should leave and find a job where no Sean Hannity is employeed? If they cannot find that prestine, no Sean Hannity, situation, then just suck it up. When whites look at "the hood" they dont quite understand what they see. 80% of the people get up and go into the world and knock on doors until one opens, even if it's a horribble environment once inside. The other 20% says I'm going to create a black market economy right here where I'm accepted. I'm not kissing these people's asses if they hate me. The black male from the hood, like 50 Cent, doesnt even have a victim mentality. They are singularly fouced on material gain. They are willing to hustle, lose their lives or go to prison rather than deal with a bunch of foolishness they cannot control. Why go into a workplace and deal with Sean Hannity? They would say: Who needs that aggrivation? They'd rather get shot at and play dodge the cops. Roland's grandmother said: "I'd rather live with bullets flying by my house than go live next to Sean Hannity". It's so much deeper than what white Americans understand.
The time for ACTUAL WORK ETHIC, KNOWLEDGE & EXPERIENCE be the guiding force in HIRING, ADVANCEMENT & Respect.
Wow. Amazing conversatioin. Thank you
Just wanna say, as I “white” person, it never occurred to me to send my eating preferences to someone who invited me for a meal. I do t know who does that but it isn’t a race thing.
He never implied that those were white folks. In fact I expect Claudine Gay to be like that.
What Professor Fryer says about employment in the early 60s comports with my own recollection from being in the workforce in that era. Pre- the major civil rights legislation of the mid-60s, It was not hard to recognize then that Black employees at every level were superior to their colleagues. They had to be; otherwise, they wouldn't have been hired or promoted into that position.
Just wow! It's such a pity that corporations are more likely to listen to Ibram X. Kendi 🤦♂Don't think I would have found out about Roland Fryer if Claudine Gay hadn't shat the bed.
I’ve never heard about you before until the Gay debacle but I believe you would be a more capable president than her, and now learning that she was instrumental on your firing….. I hope your honor will be restore. Stay honorable and faithful.
Fryer & Sowell… would be AWESOME !
At about 1 hr into the interview, Fryer said if they intervene at Grade 9 or 6 to give opportunities to the bright children who are black, there will be a bigger supply of black high achievers who will be qualified to teach at Ivy League unis. This sounds like the grammar school system in the UK. And I think grammar schools should be established in all the UK cities to give opportunities to the bright children in the UK, regardless of race, to excel. At the moment, there's only London and Kent that have grammar schools for the bright children.
In the US there’s a program like this called Prep for Prep, which intervenes at the 5th, 6th, and 7th grade (middle school) level; they spend those years supplementing the education of high-potential minority kids with the goal of getting them placed at top prep schools (private 9th-12th grades). It’s an extremely successful program and the kids who come out of it tend to do very well, but it’s not open to every minority kid; there’s a whole application and recommendation process to screen out kids who are unlikely to do well.
But why only minority kids? Such programs should be available to all disadvantaged kids, regardless of race. Proportionately, we can expect a higher ratio of minority children to benefit, but we should never use race as the criteria for providing children with a better opportunity within our society. The UK grammar school system was excellent from this point of view. The only valid criticism of it was that it did not really make space for "late starters" but this could have been readily addressed through voluntary testing at age 12 and 13.
Your guest is a young Thomas Sowell
That comparison is an insult to Fryer.
@@synchronium24 I am interested to hear why
Interesting conversation.
Dr. Freyer is an important contributor to the issues on the table here.
3 problems: 1. almost no one is as knowledgeable OR willing/able to apply the knowledge Dr. Freyer has. Just like all physicians or any other profession are not equal. I.E. the validity of stat heavy ideals depends entirely on who's driving! (He isn't consulting with every organization looking to deal with these challenges).
2. Suppose his socio/economic knowledge = the atomic theory... Yes he's brilliant - but now we know there is this this thing called sub-atomic particle/theory. I. E. Even Dr Freyer doesn't know what he doesn't know. Ergo, it is dangerous to be as rapurously in love with anyone's mind as so many here seem to be. I. E. Never eject critical doubt. 3. Take 1 column off of ANY spread sheet & see how it changes... I've seen that very thing completely change the trajectory of a document. Not suggesting Dr. Freyer would purposefully omit anything, although I've seen this happen. I'm saying re-read the end of #1& #2. These are just my off the top thoughts. Nevermind the history he carefully cherry picks to support his pov.
Professor Fryer, I suspect the applicant population at Ivy League schools is strongly defined by family income level. Has there been any data analysis on this? I'm theorizing these universities have few white applicants from very low income families. Poorer children are blocked from opportunities... regardless of race.
Of course, Ivy League applicants come from richer families who send their kids to better schools. There is lots of data.
They have test requirements to get into those schools.
You need to pass those first.
@@michaelfortunato1860 like the tuition fees.
the documentary brought me here.
Roland Fryer is a human gem because he is a truth seeker. I think our politics are very different because I am very conservatives, but I believe that kids in flyover country, both black and white deserve a better opportunity to gain access to these ivy league schools that have become echo chambers for left-wing ideology. They are all being discriminated against because of their geography and culture. After all, it's flyover country, right?
Harvard senate fiasco got me here 🤣
Wow to see Russ's face when Roland tells his personal experience of white racism and when Roland tells you his personal experience with overt discrimination growing up. Things have changed since the 1980's, 1990's and it has improved but there was impacts of "racism" -- those who could not get jobs I know due to RACE, are able to make living now. There is still actions of discrimination I live it - view it.
Right around 7:20 it came together. He's talking about Harrison Bergeron. I've been saying for years we're heading to the world of Harrison Bergeron.
He seems to be the next Thomas Sowell
Wish i could buy this man a beer
He should be the president of Harvard.
I just learned about Roland and his life story. Man destined for greatness! He needs to sue Claudine Gay for defamation
How do you find the diamonds in the rough exactly? I agree schooling is absolutely where the change needs to happen and starting at a young level. At the same time, what are Roland Fryer's thoughts on how "culture" affects all this because I believe it is a major factor and I'm not sure you can get anywhere before you get a grasp on that. I mean the type of culture where it's seen as unblack or too white to succeed in school or it's cool to be a criminal.
If the goal of hiring a person into your company, or just bringing anyone new to your life, is to maximize the health and success of such endeavor, and the value for the lives of the parties involved; then perhaps trust is a much more important variable to optimize than diversity. Trust being a subjective value and perhaps supported by other subjective underlying moral values, may well be assessed and chosen for in very biased ways to be reflected the applicant screening methods used.
I wish the discussion pounted out rhe many nuances of life in black America. By no means is it monolithic. A one parent family has different experiences depending on location. In this Federal system, place matters. Funding is arbitrary. We should take a lesson from the NFL which distributes revenues so that all teams can compete against each other satisfactorily. At the minimum they all wear the same quality uniforms. Education should be like
that as well.
It is not complicated, after all , formal education is as old as ancient Greece.
If theres one thing above all that should change , it is the student to faculty ratio. The ratio should be no more than 15 to 1.
That example is exactly what the system is designed to never create
, meritocracy, real competition, and better outcomes without any fingers on the scale
@@jarvisaddison8560So is it not possible to have both competition and meritocracy but to also say as a society we won’t allow children to live below a certain level? How is that not ethical?
@@calikeisha365 We cannot have both if as a society we predetermine the outcomes of competition and meritocracy. Unless I did not understand your point
Interesting, Dr. Fryer attributes a theory of discrimination to Kenneth Arrow, which describes almost exactly the same theory from Thomas Sowell - who labeled this type of Discrimination as type A1, in his book “Discrimination and Disparities”. I have to believe that Dr. Sowell’s book preceded Kenneth Arrow.
Am i wrong?
Kenneth Arrow died in 2017, Thomas Sowell’s Discrimination and Disparities was published in 2018. Great book, but I’m thinking Sowell’s classifications of the types of discrimination was informed by Kenneth Arrow, not the other way around.
Roland is too simplistic in his solution to an alternative to affirmative action. It's not just school, it's culture. Listen to his description of his grandmother. He saw her work three jobs and he himself would be studying till 2 am in the morning. She taught him what was right and wrong, so he didn't end up shooting anyone like his best friend did. She may have wasted gas trying to get the cheapest gas price, but she was teaching him frugality. Sounds like she was loving but stern and didn't take any crap. And the stories that I read about how Roland got in trouble at Harvard, sounds like Roland expected excellence and hard work from those working under him and would be just as stern and demanding as his grandmother. She helped mold him into the person that could transform his innate curiosity and intelligence into success. And no simple feeder school system starting with 9th graders can mimic that molding. What might be able to partially change things is an earlier exposure to a better school system, such as the successful charter schools described in Thomas Sowell's book. So I was very disappointed that Roland didn't say anything about school choice. We have a public school system controlled by teacher's unions that push a knee onto the educational neck of poor minority students. That, in addition to the fatherlessness incentivized by the government, is the primary source of structural racism.
We have a growing epidemic of fatherlessness in America. Approximately one in four American children are without a father. Is this too the fault of the government?
Yes, government welfare and idiotic rules for divorce and adoption.....
The fact that Ivy leagues would be involved in education implies charter schools so he did not need to mention it explicitly. I am not a fan of Ivy League schools building K-12 schools. This should be a black issue that is black funded, owned, and operated. The white guys can help but not own. Blacks need to be self-reliant. When good kids are produced, the Ivy League schools and others will show up. I do agree with the culture component but I am not as harsh. Wasted talent happens everywhere but too often among blacks. For example public schools have to teach everyone. They cant turn away bad kids who disrupt class, so everyone suffer, no one learns, and no one is accountable. Culture is to be blamed because there is a lack of discipline in these kids and that was nonexistent decades ago.
@@AdamGeest why yes for some aspect and you can divide it by race. Starting with drafting men into the world war, collecting the gold/wealth and forcing women out of the women’s away from raising the children and labeling as herionism aka Rosie the Riviter. All of a sudden women pushed into the work force and now today is there really a choice for the women/family to raise the children or is the state by forced economics. People struggling thought okay some have had a harder time okaying welfare for mothers but many mothers made it a generational culture off living off the system the gov helped along the poor habits by encouraging poor music/rap choice or they chose created themselves? Probably a little of both. Then you have a destroyed cultural values. Now they are doing the same with country music.
Very well stated...
Brilliant , Master Class!
Here's a suggestion: Congress should pass a law that all academic institutions that are ranked in the national top 30 establish high schools using 5% of their revenue, to be cost shared 50% by their state government, to establish high schools in underserved neighborhoods within 30 miles of their campus. Graduate students in those institutions' School of Ed must teach two courses (or two classes of one course) as a prerequisite for their graduate Education degree. Students graduating in the top 10% of those high schools will be shortlisted for acceptance by those universities.
I understand and do not disputed your empirical thesis on the items mentioned. I do however doubt the sincerity of these institutions to truly impact "supply" in a positive way.
Stereotypes are natural. They are good initial estimates. Information reduces them.
They are also strategies to maintain practices of exclusion, part of ideology that naturalizes/normalizes inferiority.
Willingness to admit the truth.
I think it strange to have a discussion about admission to university in America and not touch "legacy" admissions and all the elite sports places that go to sailing and fencing, etc. I imagine there are a whole load of kids of every ethnicity with merit that never get a chance because of these policies.
Liked and subbed
The fact is that discrimination is an inherent feature of human nature. The thing is that when the individual discerns its existence in the relationships of their endeavors, the result of the effect of the perceived discrimination would depend largely on the reaction of the person. In other words, the old adage that the answer brings the conflict closer would apply in probably eighty percent of the time..
The value of a guy like Fryer is that these sorts of speculations do not grow legs until they are confirmed by substantial testing.
12.25 Could you look at randomly selected other groupings ie not by race, and check what disparities there are. Thereby coming up with a rough idea how accurate it usually is or what about residual disparity. You could use single race groups, randomly split multiple times to test & calulate this disparity benchmark for an average and maximum value. Then you could take these values out and know how much was on average due to racism and the minimum amount due to racism.
God bless Thomas Sowell with longevity! If only we could have had him as President. But politics is too dishonest for him.
This guy is a great thinker, no wonder he was targeted for extinction by plagiarist mediocrity, and former Harvard President (!!) Claudine Gay!
I think Roland's views of racism in the 1980s are a bit exaggerated, based on my 75 years of living in America; his example may even be evidence that anti-racism underlies the interracial social character in his neighborhood--of course many black Americans may have also disliked whites in their house, etc.
Roland s Martin covers this too.
Amazing interview; how can I contact him?
at what point or how much importance do we put on the family structure related to the level of success people have in life? isn't it true that children with two parents are more successful, how much more successful are they when at least one of the parents work, both attend church, both are involved in their community what other factors could we look at such as how does having a former antifa member as a parent impact a childs success and outlook on life; it seems we are still missing the forest for the trees; strong families = successful children and nothing is going to change that including perceived and/or real systemic racism; families are key then books or the internet is next; you could take any child to the middle of nowhere with just a good family and internet access and that child could easily be trained to know as much as roland, russ or myself; but of course taking the easy way as Roland points out is not only the path most tacken by intellectuals it is also the one that benefits the elites the greatest; we couldn't have an educated public could we; one that might actually question how is it that every politician goes in with little money and in 30 years they are multi millionaires; what if we asked how is it that universities and college in general is so outlandishly expensive to the point of being obscene; what if they asked that and much more . . .
I wonder why his grandmother didn’t take him into her home when his father went to prison? And, if he felt like he could do anything, thanks to the grandmother, then why would he even consider a life of selling drugs or stealing? I am sure he would have known he would be letting himself and letting his grandmother down. It emphasizes factors outside family and community as a reason he became successful. His ideas or solutions also lie with these outside factors.
"She bit him back!" Omg, that sounds just like my mother-in-law. She doesn't take shit and she's my heroine.
55:00 Sad. Change standards or applicants? They’d rather keep their endowments, complain about “societal ills”, tsk,tsk away…and look out the ivory tower window and remain elite and privileged, GRATITUDE be damned.
His comment abt the grandmother interpreting the change being set on the counter instead of in her hand as racism was so familiar to me.
As a white kid who was raised around and a lot BY black persons I experienced this time and time again.
They call some act as racist but I know that white ppl have done the exact same thing to me.
So I learned at an early age that many black ppl have been raised with a predisposition to see racism in even the most innocent of actions. That's a fact.
And not saying that their parents & grandparents didn't have cause to think that way in their day but it's sad that that has been passed down to these younger generations who have very likely never REALLY experienced racism at all. And nobody can tell me otherwise because I've seen it, lived it first hand.
I'm in my 60's. I've seen both ends of the spectrum going from the 60's to today.
I always ask them, "If it's racism when they do it to you then what is it when they do it to me?"
I have yet to have anyone able to answer that.
People discriminate against people on other grounds besides race, you know. Disabiliity? Income level? Age? Weight? Height? Accent? Ethnic group? The list goes on and on.
We need more Roland Fryers and less Claudine Gays
You seem to have forgotten James Conant?
Public education created its program for the kids who has a lot of prime education from parents. Many low income kids are not from this category. Is this an informative discrimination?
I could be wrong, but I believe diversity is an old, old wooden ship that was used during the civil war era.
yep the initial part of your sentence is correct
Claudine Gay «he need to go he is competent; he will not push our agenda»
Game Theory!
🎉
Pretty soon we can bring AI online to do true blind discrimination checks if humans do it honestly and don't interfere.
Feed ALL of the information to the AI on the loan or school applications but leave the names and race identifying information OUT.
Absolutely fascinating but misses 3 elephants in the room;
1. If I went to a failed public grade school and high school, it's too late to give me a chance to compete. The original sin of American education is its system of monopoly government schools.
2. All voluntary human relationships form around myriad subjective and objective values. If that pretty girl says no to my proposal, I might imagine that she unfairly discriminated against me. She has something I want, and I wrongly feel that somehow I have a right to it. WRONG. I need to find someone else. Hiring is no different. More detailed measurement is an illusion.
3. Most attempts at diversity training will fail for reasons that Roland states. The only solution that works in the long run is that organizations who misprice talent will be outcompeted by those who do a better job at pricing. That's why the Fortune 500 turns over every 25 years.
The first mistake of any racist is to believe that race is important. Humans have evolved (in many cultures) from a situation where tribal identity was crucial to survival, to one where, unlike all other species, individual identity (choices made after birth, NOT birth characteristics) is paramount. It's the diversity of individuals that matters.
Fryer explains his extensive thoughts about the impact of failing government schools at 54 minutes into the video.
@@econtalkwithruss Yet he thinks that children who have spent 12 years learning little should have a chance to enter the ivy league. A recipe for failure.
Fryer would agree that individuals (regardless of race) can have a lot to contribute to the world. He emphasizes that everyone is better off if very bright individuals can reach their potential, rather than encountering arbitrary barriers.
@@econtalkwithruss Everybody should have the chance to reach their full potential, not just bright people. You're guilty of elitism.
Once you allow/require organizations to discriminate on race, you have opened Pandora's Box, and now are driving intellectual society into a frenzy trying to analyze it that will have no end until society returns to merit as the basis for selection. This is not trivial, because discrimination occurs at the top positions in organizations just as well as it can at the lower levels. Academics/Intellectuals don't understand this, because they presume (wrongly) that because they are the intellectuals, it obviously could never happen to themselves (an attitude of having tenure, say) Discriminating on race even once can turn an organization completely upside down! That is because the person getting selected is not just marginally unqualified, they are just as often completely unqualified. For example, this would be like promoting a good accountant to now becoming a co-pilot on a commercial airliner! Believe me, sh!t like this really happens to fill quotas, and HR departments don't give a damn, they are not going to allow themselves to get red-flagged by government enforcement agencies.
24y
"You could spot a racist on sight"--that's like gaydar for racists... You could call it "radar".
This episode is basically a part two lads. Episode 862 also discussed affirmative action in the education system.
I'm a Mathematician Statistician and academic .Every thing Fryer says is technically correct. However he tries to catch the fly and he misses the elephant. Most corporations and universities do not understand how to measure discrimination and are ran by activists therefore they will never rest until all positions are filled with quotas proportional to demographics in popoluation. For example airlines want to have 50% female pilots. This nevel will happen because biological differences unless we live in a totitarian society. Tomas Sowell explain race disparities in outcome are cultural and normal. I dont know if Fryer is naive or playing dumb because he has been himself indoctrinated been in Harvard for decades to believe discrimination is the most important problem to solve in the World. It is not. And the ways uneducated or ill educated people are trying to solve this alledged problem .is dangerous. Defunding police based in false assumptions like systemic racism resulted in thousand of more black people murdered in the country because increase in crime . And affirmative action is real systemic discrimination as ruled by the Supreme Court. Today academia has been taken by activist that build their careers with this victimhood and reversse racism mentality like Claudine Gay that cancelled Fryer himself. And they censor research that does not fall into their narrative. Academia in the US is in decline and this is real and serious problem. Fryer has talemt he should grow a pair and quit Harvard he would be able to thrive and shine.
Roland Fryer should be happy knowing Claudine Gay is TOAST!
Wow, listen to this guy talk and then you listen to Claudine Gay, that tells you who’s the diversity hire.
Discrimination v. disparity: I won't hire people who didn't go to Ivy league school. That isn't racist or sexist. But is the racial disparity caused by racial discrimination?
He acts as if there aren't twice as many whites than blacks in poverty in the US. If you found a way to go into poor neighborhoods and get the diamonds in the rough, you would have 2 additional white applicants for every black applicant added to the pool. What he really wants is discrimination on who gets help in the poor communities.
@RD-mj6to It's not that, he wants an actual model developed, and he does model rigorously. With your stats you also forget how neighborhoods vary in composition. The model needs to work and account for varying cases rigorously. If race isn't even a factor when other factors are considered, it's eliminated as a factor from the model.
Mr Fryer we are very sorry for what Harvard did to you ! I personally believe if we do harm to anybody it will come right back to our self and hate to think or to our love ones 🤷🏼♀️I %100 believe this and look what happened to mis Gay 🤷🏼♀️this is what nature or great power or god ! What ever it is ? It Does 😏
She stayed at Harvard and is keeping her $ 900,000 a year salary.
God won't do human's job.
She needs to be removed from academia and return all her Harvard money due to fraud and conspiracy to comit fraud.
And then go to jail.
If you admire Dr. Fryer, I don’t think you’ll mind my asking for rigorous data to support this hypothesis.
@@adamb.9968 didn’t he get fired? As far as I read and heard about him , he was a great teacher and not very much in to universities rules and regulation more in to teaching then politics of universities ! Am I wrong ?and we all know what kind of president, Gay was ! All politic no great education! You know how much money they were getting from rich Muslim Arab countries? No wonder they produced NAZIS 🤷🏼♀️
Food preference note to the host is an income / classism thing. You know what is crazy, that ADOS use the N word with each other.