"Ruined By Lazy Policies" - Harvard Professor Roland Fryer Explains The Downfall of DEI
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- Опубликовано: 31 мар 2024
- Patrick Bet-David, Tom Ellsworth, and Vincent Oshana are joined by economic and Harvard University professor Roland Fryer as they discuss how lazy policies have ruined DEI.
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Patrick Bet-David is the founder and CEO of Valuetainment Media. He is the author of the #1 Wall Street Journal Bestseller “Your Next Five Moves” (Simon & Schuster) and a father of 2 boys and 2 girls. He currently resides in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida. 
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Wonderful example of 2 people agreeing and disagreeing respectfully. No shouting, no name calling, no funny business. Felt soooo good to just listen without holding my breath about who's going to start shouting or being offended next.
Seriously people, just have normal conversations (disagreements) and have patience to listen to one another out.
DEI is not focused on talent, it's focused on fulfilling a racial quota. I learned this the hard way. 15 years ago, when I got into a Ph.D. program in Cali, the small cohort of 8-10 students only had 1 spot for a white man. The other spots had to be filled by-- a white woman, a black woman, a Hispanic guy, a lesbian woman, a disabled woman, and so on. Those are not examples, that's how it was.
DEI disadvantages everyone when your eligibility is determined by race/gender/etc. You also end up competing against and taking the spot of the other minorities in your "category." There's fewer opportunities available to you because positions are filled by the diversity quota.
That's CRAZY. that sort of Hiring Process needs to end
He's applying the labor theory of value to education. Dishing out grades based on effort instead of ability. Nobody wants the surgeon who struggled the most, they want whoever is better at surgery.
Effort doesn't matter in the real world...results do
Would you feel better if your child was left paralyzed because the doctor "gave his best effort" instead of just being competent.
Some people have to work harder to get the same results.... but getting the same results are what counts.
I think effort does matter. I agree with your conclusion but not analysis. Johnny and bobby example is perfect here. They are not that far apart or should I say very close. What if Johnny is sitting comfortable with home tutors all over him vs Bobby got that close with a part time job to help his family. Would you still not appreciate efforts?
Off course if Johnny is at GPA 4.5 vs Bobby at 3.2, there is no comparison.
No, you're ASSUMING that is what he meant.
@@julianfrost4827 NO its pretty obvious what he meant.
@@Curious_Hemant
Actually. no . I still take Johnny first because he is the best candidate and deserves to win.
You don't give the Superbowl ring to the team that tries the hardest. You don't try to second guess results and you don't try to play god.
DEI is racist
4:55 4:55 4:55 4:55 WELCOME TO RACISM 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
I think the fact that the world had to give birth to it is sad. The denial that there was never a strange dynamic to create a dei situation is delusional!
DEI is another word for the N word.
I have noticed DEI is supported by black people because it helps them considering the many disadvantages they face. And white Republicans hate it because they feel it unfairly helps black people. Black people care about lifting up their communities finding different solutions and DEI is one solution. Republicans care about complaining about black crime and talking down on black people especially on fox without giving any solutions. If Republicans cared about fairness they would start with Legacies which helps majority of white people but having black people having upward mobility infuriates them. Now l get why black people support Democrats
How is it racism when white women benefit from it
So the black professor in a tortured way is arguing for socioeconomic factors not race.
He also argues for merit.
DEI is morally opposed to merit.
How so
The guy is not being honest. He thinks you are too stupid to see he is a DEI supporter and sad they cannot brainwash the masses to support it.
DEI is all about quotas snd getting enough of this'n and that'n and making sure you leave ol jimbo at the lake.
@hmmm2357
Despite how they align the words, Diversity + equity ≠ inclusion. What they're after is equity or equality of outcome.
So putting things in order without the veneer of "this is good overall" it's skin color (with heavy application of black followed by non-white) + forced integration of ideas or ideology = equal outcomes for all because everyone thinks the same despite their skin color variation.
It's not a good thing. It engineers the common denominator and that common denominator is wherever all meet the lowest point relatively easily and then they somehow/some way Harrison Bergeron it up hoping for outstanding results.
I hope that makes sense.
Well if the applicant is black with slightly higher margins of score, they would never even consider the white candidates “work ethic” or “obstacles” it took to get there.
I disagree. DEI should have no place in admissions.
Kentanji, Karine, and Kamala is proof of that. LOL KKK.
Isn't the best part of America that poor people can get educated and climb up the social ladder?
@@grod805 and not blame someone else??? bu-but... you can't do that!
Personally, I don't have anything against giving the kid who came up from nothing a chance if he is otherwise equal to the kid who came from money and you only have one spot. I don't think it should have anything to do with color or creed though, ever. Come up with all the metrics you want to judge one candidate or one prospective student against the other, but keep biology, religion, sexual preference and political opinion clear out of it. If you take two candidates with equal scores on objective metrics, you shouldn't pick one over the other for being black, or gay, or Muslim. Certain things should not be used to discriminate, whether it's in your favor or against it.
Also legacies should have no place in admissions.
Being in distress from not having enough or being born in the wrong setting, doesn’t grant a free pass to the right amount of resources. It’s like being stranded in the dessert and expecting water to appear…what are you going to do if it doesn’t!
I think you have taken his point wrong. In business terms, if you have two companies in the same industry. One is doing 15mil in revenue from a 1mil seed round investment and another thats doing 8mil off a 50k seed round. Which company has the most potential?
@@L9r5c To be honest, if the current DEI practices appeared to even be giving a fraction of the amount of thought to them that you're giving right now, I wouldn't have nearly as big of a problem with them, even if I still was in disagreement. Where it currently sits is "Company, industry, more black people, you're racist".
@@realitycheck6333 agreed, Im black and I’m against what DEI is today. Basically, diversity for the sake of diversity…make matters worse they have morphed it to “you must participate in my abnormal, none work related lifestyle”
@@realitycheck6333 And along with most of us in the comments, Roland disagrees with current DEI practices. The point is to be able to identify higher potential in performance measurements. If two people ran a race and the times were 9.9 vs 9.89, but the 9.89 had a weighted vest on, If you were picking a team of competitors, you'd want the 9.89 runner because they have a higher potential to run faster than 9.9. We aren't saying that the 9.9 loses the current race. What we're saying is, down the line, the 9.89 runner is better
Again, this is all under the assumption that the difference in current performance is mimiscule.
@@adamjames642 The solution to this is not to ignore the better runner because the other has more potential, the first one is faster and deserves to win. We need to focus on removing the vest from the other runner first and to see if there is an improvement.
This hypothetical vest is not guaranteed to limit their best in reality which is why the best should be focused at least till the other can show a better upper limit with any reasonable possible limitations removed.
I see what he’s saying. It feels like he says in some cases someone has huge obstacles they overcome to succeed and if they are slightly lower than someone with less obstacles, then maybe they have a higher chance for success. But he didn’t say skin color was the factor, which I appreciate. He mentioned economical status, etc… the issue is that colleges take the lazy approach.
Many people in society have many obstacles to overcome in the real world. More people have obstacles to overcome than not.
He did actually say that race should be taken into account.
@@annmhmoore0771 - obviously most people have some, but we are talking about more wide spread life issues for children. If you go to a well funded school, you're more likely to have good teachers and a better opportunity to have a more well rounded learning experience.
No, skin color should NOT matter in admission to anything, for a multitude of reasons across the board. People who think it's a good idea are being shortsighted & not considering the repercussions of implementing such biased & unjust policies.
What are the repercussions for making it easier for a QUALIFIED poor hispanic kid tryna get into harvard ?
@@ra-neter6662 - You hurt the feelings of wealthy wy.ts and they feel like the world is unfair and vote for Trump hoping he’ll target your community and be their retribution.
@@ra-neter6662 You're making it about race instead of class. If someone who is lower class shows the ability, talent, and effort, universities and colleges have grants and other programs to help these people. The race of individuals have no merit in the conversation as it has non influence over the ability to gain a skill.
@LimpMind i didnt make it about race. U clearly misread where i wrote poor.
Words mean specific things. DEI and affirmative action mean certain things, meritocracy means something specific. You can't have both.
Merit also mean certain thing.
It is practically impossible to find the best 100 of anything, not to mention finding the best 2,000 students yearly.
Harvard admits 2000 students yearly.
Schools like Harvard have enough, and this country as a whole has enough to include as many people as possible seeking high-quality education up to the standards of Harvard.
I worked in the scouting department of an NFL team with millions of dollars in yearly budget. It was still almost impossible to find the best players consistently, even with access to large amounts of data on each player.
@moneymaker7307 that's why there are tests. I'm sure, however, that you just let anyone on your roster if they said they were really good, right?
Why can’t you have both? Affirmative action does not mean every veteran will get a government job. It means the qualified veterans get extra points in the application process. DEI does not mean that every disabled person will get the job it means they’re going to get an opportunity to apply and not be excluded from the process.
Cooperation and the people who own this country have pulled the wool over most people's eyes, so that many cannot see what is going on.
Conservative racists believe that if everything were fair and equal, they would be the ones attending these highfalutin institutions because, by default, they consider themselves more intelligent and more deserving than a so-called "DEI candidate."
Many liberals who work in these institutions believe that the so-called cooperation they work for supports diversity and inclusion, because of how it pays lip service to the topic and how quickly it fires someone.
The same thing applies to immigration. Tell people that illegal immigrants are a threat to their way of life, but the truth is that legal migration has a much greater impact on people than illegal immigrants ever could.
While you are correct, he is saying to add points into the meritocracy bucket for difficulty of challenge. If you and I played a video game, you beat it on lvl 1 while I beat it on lvl 10, while we both completed the game, I get extra points for beating a harder level. The same goes for education.
If you have a 3.9 while having access to private tutoring and I have a 3.8 without any additional assistance, talent scouts should be able to recognize that I'm playing on a harder level.
Just to be clear, RACE is not a harder level. It is just an observable fact of your identity. Being poor, however, is definitely going through life on hard mode. This is something children have no control over.
So great to see PBD and the prof connect over sports and particularly to focus on where they agree while still articulating how they differ. THIS IS EVERYTHING. 🙏💥🎯
Fools gold-
DEI will never lead to a better outcome for humanity
Agreed
It won't lead to less racial resentment. It will only lead to more.
That is what DEI was designed to really accomplish
Wouldn’t exist if YT people didn’t cheat the system for 400 years.
DEI really isn't the problem, it's the people behind it. Any policy being pushed by such disingenuous activists with so much internalized hate is going to have terrible results.
@@jeffreyrichard2575DEI is not only about RACE. What about disabled people who’ve been excluded from application process? What about the number one beneficiaries of affirmative action, white women? I’m all for meritocracy but there is no such thing as fairness in a system run by people who have biases.
@@calikeisha365aw so sad. If you don’t like our country go to a 3rd world country and were most people have no voice at all.
His argument crumbles pretty fast when challenged. It’s “all about talent” until perceived privilege enters the equation.
💯
Based!
You actually missed it. It is about talent. I'll present what he said in a different way. Lets assume steroids were openly legal and accessible.
If there were 2 athletes, 1 on the juice and 1 natural, and the natural athlete was less that 5% behind in performance. Then the ceiling is much higher than the one on the juice. The talent is is present but not being utilized yet.
Back to the example of GPA. If the economically advantaged student has a gpa of 4.4 and the poor kid has 4.2. If you dig enough and find that the adv. student has a tutor, has a stable home, gets 8hrs of sleep each night and 3 meals a day, while the poor kid only gets to eat once at home, lot of comotion in the house so they don't get a full night worth of sleep and bounces place to place, then by simple logic, the poor kid has a higher potential for improvement.
Again, I'm only saying this for very small differences in performance. Of course, if a kid has a 4.9 and the poor kid has a 3.0, the 3.0 shouldn't get any consideration.
Look up Roland Fryer please. He is not actually for DEI at all.
"So is race a factor?" "Nn Nooooooo...."
In a perfect world what this man is saying is absolutely logical. But the world isn’t perfect and the simplest best way to cut through all the noise is strictly merit based.
AGREED !! And If BLACK and BROWN people KNOW THAT from GRADE 1 they will WORK harder Because they WONT be able to rely on SKIN COLOR !!
For the most part but “merit-based metrics” like standardized tests aren’t perfect either. But I can see your point in that what he is saying is unfortunately not something that is attainable because of politics in academia and a misunderstanding of what things like diversity and inclusion should entail. I feel like what a lot of people in the comments don’t get is that it’s equally as bad to say that race never matters just as much as saying that it has to always matter.
Start by dealing with legacies first, but you wont as it helps the desired race gtfoh
@@tonderaitchikodzore8052 what did I do to offend you? I’m of the poor class just like you what power do you think I or we hold over some legacy? I or we are not your enemy here.
@@briandstephmoore4910 l apologize brother, not my intention to offend you. Its just that anything that seems to advance black people in general is usually shut down by Republicans, yet they are the one who profit over talking talking down on them eg. Fox news. without any solutions to uplift black communities
He pushes skin color, period. He dances around it slightly, but obviously pushes it.
Victim answer. He's proposing an utopian solution that will never exist without building levers that allow for extreme corruption and misuse..
"All Negroes are equal, but some negroes are more equal than others."
Pretty much. It pretends to be a bean-counting method to optimize and quantify the quality of someone's character and potential at a distance. Meeting and interacting with someone in real life, looking at the actual work of their hands or mind, seeing how they are on the regular and how they develop - these all seem like methods from another time. And apparently another victim of our over-dependence on tech (which is another utopian solution with heavily weighted levers).
Yeah sorry, I don't think academic bureaucracies and Skynet making pyramid hierarchies are going to find or nurture the next da Vinci or Solzhenitsyn.
@@kyleshockley1573 there is legitimate evidence that America’s diversity does have a lot to do with our success. We have no shared culture amongst ourselves other than our hustle culture. There are large benefits to getting a more diverse people into your business. Everything this man was saying, makes perfect sense to me. There’s a difference between force-feeding diversity and thoughtful and effective merit based diversity. I see it all the time man. I take guys off the scrap pile and build their career up and help them get real money and it’s crazy how fast people grow.
@@brasshouse9822 false. This is being conflated back when america had hegemony of ideals. Today half the nation thinks it’s ok to be communist. It’s not for the record. You’re falsely correlating diversity with aligned ideals..
It's human nature. That's why our common laws, common morals... are designed to make you humain. Not human. Just like religion or socialism. Looks good on paper. it sounds decent. But we just don't work like that.
College athletics and professional sports teams seem to find talent by letting the best compete without trying to find a quota candidate. If you want the best then you shouldn’t shift the expectations to meet the requirements.
Exactly!!! Sports is amazing because they are competing in front of our eyes, and you either got it, or you don’t. Strange how they want to lower standards but expect better outcomes.
@@azaleagirl6275- Lower standard?
That's absolutely false, because professional sports teams are setting scouts all over the world to seek for potentials.
The reigning MVP of the NBA, Joel Embiid was scouted in Africa, and he was not as good as other candidates at that time. But he has gigantic potential.
As if you're intentionally not understanding this, buddy. DEI is not about lowering merits, it's about looking at better qualities that will eventually bring back higher returns.
@@markarmage3776 Keep believing that Buddy! You got picked last a lot didn’t you?
DEI is about lowering metrics. To me the real problem with DEI is that are pushing in upper positions. What Roland try to say, sound like a open trainee style. For example: we wanted give jobs for some black actors, so we could go to some black community and there find some talents, but the skin color here stop in "we need some black actor", after that is just talent hunter. The current DEI don't do that even around the world, usually DEI sector just need some quota and goes to some diversity agency and pay some of that are offered.
And another problem with DEI is the mixed race factor. In my country that is largely mixed, the government and college bring back skull measures ( I'm not kidding there're actually racial tribunals ) to defines who is really black, brown and white.
These are the best kinds of conversations. No matter what side you fall on it's great to have your position challenged once in a while. Thanks PBD for putting this thoughtful and compassionate human being on the podcast. More of this please.
You don’t need a name to apply to university. It should be a social number. No gender, no race, no nationality, no district. You look at the exam results, a list of accomplishments and choose.
assuming everyone is receiving the same quality of education from K to 12 then I would agree
@@thelovelymrsbarberNobody is ever going to receive the same quality of education
@@hanklesacks exactly and this is why various programs are put in place for certain people who start at a disadvantage
When Alabama and LSU’s freshman classes are all As1an kids and a couple football payers, those “southerners” are going to make sure nationally is on the application.
@@thelovelymrsbarber Which is only going to disadvantage others. There's no absolutes, only trade offs.
I found this conversation very interesting. No matter how simple I want this subject to be, in actuality there is a lot more nuance. Great podcast.
An Alternative framework called Merit, Fairness, and Equality (MFE) whereby university applicants are treated as individuals and evaluated through a rigorous and unbiased process based on their merit and qualifications alone.”
What MFE would mean is that students would be admitted only because of their academic and personal achievements, not because of their ancestry or family connections. It would also mean that school personnel would be similarly chosen on merit, with no favoritism for applicants because of their race or other immutable characteristics, and no favoritism for those who espouse certain political beliefs.
It isn’t skin! Poor people in General regardless of color! Because poor who’re kids and poor black kids are the same in needing help. Geez
DEI is how you build the losing team. MERIT is how you build the winning team. It's that simple.
Some people don’t even get the opportunity to have merit
@@BillzWhite opportunity doesn't just happen it's created
@@suecolmerhor yea for some more than others
@@BillzWhiteWho are these ppl?
@@BillzWhite DEI makes it look like we are competing with each other in the US with the DEI vs non-DEI candidates for any position. But in actuality we are not competing with each other, not in the long run. The competition is actually between citizens of the United States and the vast majority of other people in the world who desperately want to "eat our lunch." While DEI failures only accelerate US decline, other nations are demanding MERIT and excellence from their people. Just look at so many of our national brands being bought up by companies from other nations. We should be expanding & investing around the world, but instead we are barely hanging on. We need to be focusing on productivity, achievement, excellence, merit, etc.
As a Latino, I dont want special treatment or special sympathy. Its about earning merit, not communism
The mental gymnastics these intelligent people go through to try to justify this is truly mind boggling. Why is it SO hard for people to say race should have nothing to do with hiring, and our culture should embrace merit over all else?
It’s a nuanced argument that clearly is beyond your understanding
Because, they can't let go of their tribal beliefs. Dei hurts everyone. It hurt me as a minority. Because I knew colleges needed diversity, I didn't even try. I didn't complete applications, I just took my sat score, plopped it down, and said, "I know the data, my score is top 1% of my minority, so I'm accepted".
I'm glad this is getting traction of the younger more hip professor. But seriously, Thomas sowell practice discussion years ago
Roland Fryer is such a brilliant man who focuses on prioritzing the elevation of individuals who face socioeconomic challenges within our communuties. 🙏🏾❤️🙏🏼
The more I watch and listen to Roland the better it gets. Love it!
Awesome and important convo. Thanks guys.
Holy shit. Race should never be a factor.
in america race is always a factor
As a marine when you’re standing on the yellow line, you’re all the same regardless of your race, it’s about motivation and performance.
Great interview!
Honestly, he's made the best argument for DEI I've ever heard. Life obstacles can restrict one's abilities, and triumphant stories are appealing. Sadly, we all can see that the intent and the application are worlds apart.
This is a good conversation.
excellent interview... informative.
Interesting how the desire for DEI disappeared when basketball was the example :D
its about racial promotion and nothing else. Getting what other groups have or earned.
And this is why i will never trust a dei hire
How do you know someone is a DEI hire?
@@Sck519 they will hide behind identity politics to disguise poor work
@@Sck519Non white mean automatic dei hire
@frederickgivens1569 Proving yourself a ignorant racist
According to this professor, Junior and Buford that had the misfortune of being born and raised in Appalachia should be covered by DEI and affirmative action since it shouldn't be race centered.
“Because if the obstacles he had to overcome, if we take those into account, he would have a perfect 1600”
So an unfalsifiable situation and impossible to quantify factor of “what if he was white” as it relates to SAT?
ENGINEERS HAVE GOT TO KNOW MATH ……PERIOD
5:09 this dude completely ignores that most school districts that these "affirmative action" picks come from already have watered down curriculum that allow for them to be raised up already. a 4.0 at an inner city school in 12th grade is like what we learned in 8th..
& you have access to many more tools than the inner city kid.
Growing up in the inner city (now making 6 figures comfortably) I can tell you that it’s appalling how terrible the education system is in public schools. Teachers hardly qualified to teach honors & AP level classes. Less than 10% of students end up actually succeeding & getting in a 4 year in most of these inner city schools.
@@Adrian-lx9uk cultural issue. And it shouldn’t be subsidized. You clearly were able to succeed eventually. Inner city schools were drastically better funded per student and it’s a bad investment.
that is why they use standardized testing .....Because you cannot trust the schools to produce the same level of education in all situations.
School districts artificially inflate their graduation rates and have grade inflation to "produce " the results parents and politicians want.
THAT is why they have SAT scores. My cross-the-hall neighbor is Wigglesworth, Harvard Yard was a very bright "Double 800". But he was also a Doofus. It isn't the only thing that matters
@@friarnewborg9213 the SAT predicts academic success . Academics is what Harvard provides so your Doofus should go there not someone with a lower score and a more pleasing personality.
Correlation is not causation.
"We need to focus on all the other stuff." AMEN!
I grew up in a low income rural area, it’s not about race it’s about income.
Roland is brilliant thank you for having him on!!
“I’ll give you a break by letting you watch” 🤣
This man gets it! This professor has what a serious amount of honor, and dignity. Trying to maintain the balance is not easy.
You really had them stomped 😂
I really like Roland, very well spoken and also very open minded
I appreciate your contributions to Freakonomics, Professor. I'm an economic freak.
"...not just the people who work hardest..." wow, just wow
Talent optimization 😊
With the sports analogy that he could use as well as a good gauging to use is the players markability because we all know that product endorsements and the sales that come from it bring in a lot of extra money for the NBA
Mr Fryer shows great naïveté in his imagined system of selection. There is no way it could be implemented well and would end up being used just as all the other methods have been used. DEI = Didn’t Earn It
I get what he is saying because I can relate. When you grow up with parents who don’t have diplomas, don’t have money and don’t even understand how to get you into college. However, despite all that they have managed to get a 3.5 GPA. I will take that guy over the 4.0 who grew up in suburbia, went to private school and had private tutors his whole life.
Is this so hard to comprehend!?!
All day long, every day, every year.
My parents didn’t have diplomas and still made the sacrifices to pay for private school. Many white kids are dirt poor and assumed to be privileged by DEI standards
That's cherry picking.
It's something to be considered atleast, I think that's reasonable.
However, being able to identify that someone has triumphed over adversity doesn't necessarily make them the best candidate for a job, or necessarily better than someone who hasn't gone through as much perceived adversity. Again, a probably good thing to look at on a case by case basis, but not to just generalize that everyone who came from 'less' is automatically better than those who came from 'more', as it depends on what values and experiences are being looked for.
I like his thinking. It’s out of the ordinary
This is a good conversation
Roland fryer is one of the best on the internet. You can tell he truly cares about the country deeply rather than personal attacks on people
No DEI, no Affirmative Action
What happened to the VT Rumble channel? It disappeared and all links in a search engine go 404 not found?
Pat literally laid himself up for the perfect point to counter his affirmative action rebuttal, he was laying it up perfectly, but when the guest (sorry forgot his name, memory issues) said no, Pat, instead went off into an unrelatable sports analogy like usual lol .... all he needed to say was "what makes you think a black kid from the city somehow had a harder time getting there than a white or any other race kid from the suburbs? The kid from the city could've had a great life, 2 parents, great upbringing, tutoring, all the access to knowledge and technology, while the other kid in the suburb could've been in an abusive household with one parent struggling to keep that house, getting beat, no Internet, no tutoring, no access....race means absolutely nothing sir, you're judging a book by it's cover, are you trying to say just because he was black he was less fortunate and less off just because of his skin color good Harvard going sir?" Boom.... point made.... nothing about vertical leaps or 40yrd dashes necessary 😅
No he keeps saying it’s not about race and the kid being black. He said he doesn’t think Black kids from the suburbs with middle class educated parents should be the recipients of AA. He’s talking about POOR inner city kids. They just happen to be disproportionately not white. And yes, a kid growing up poor in the inner city probably does lack various resources a kid growing up in a middle class suburb has. There may be exceptions but that’s a safe generalization to make
The professor already addressed that by saying Obama’s or his kid shouldn’t get DEI. Basically meaning you shouldn’t automatically conclude a black candidate went through more adversity than their white counterpart
I kinda like em. Made sounds points. Enjoyed the interview
I didnt. He is the DEI hire at Harvard, so I can't take what he says seriously.
Hey PBD don't worry bro, the benches are actually kinda warm 🙃
From a simple man. I was in the Marine Corps and I served with people from other countries such as Jamaica and China. None of us cared about color or where we grew up. We only cared about you have the same uniform and we look out for each other.
I agree with give the most qualified person the job vise the most senior with the caveat of do they want that job or would they rather do something else. I know many people that have computer skills but they have zero interest doing that work, so they pretend to know nothing because if you speak up once that will be your job. I’ve found as a leader to put people where they are good at the task and they like doing that job and you will have good quality work and a happy employee. 😊
Why is the comment section so negative on this guy? Hes pretty spot on. Race is a factor, one of many. Test scores dont measure intangibles and intangibles need to be thought of. A kid could have amazing stats on paper but faced no challenge, no failure in life. And then when he gets to the next level, he buckles real quick.
People on this comments section can't think for themselves, whatever PBD says they'll agree with, which is ironic because PBD seems like a pretty open minded guy in some regards.
Maybe people is tired with the propaganda and buzzwords...20 years ago there was no such thing...once we start pandering to certain people because we don't wanna hurt their feelings the country got deeper into the rabbit hole and we become more of a circus....we lost all common sense...our Goal now is fake jobs fake tittles lot of stupidity in the work force,pop culture even video games..... enough is enough....
Why is the comment section negative on this guy?
Because he’s Black! 😒
This
Why should race be a factor? That's insane.
Merit, merit and more merit ....
Love Roland.
I agree with Patrick but life isn’t based only on merit. There’s a lot of bias in decisions
Skin color should not matter at all. Get the best candidate
Even the “equality of opportunity” people are deluded. Liberty is the best option. No arbitrary, government enforced limitations on opportunity. That’s all.
What are the obstacles they had to overcome? That’s not quantifiable, who’s gonna be in charge of judging that
I agree with Roland that the institutions take the lazy route by taking only (or mostly) race into consideration and he differs a bit from most of the DEI advocates and activists. However, what is frustrating is that the activists flatten the socioeconomic status entirely by race, and not by their actual background and "hidden score card points", which vary wildly from either Orange County or from South Chicago, Appalachia, etc. By doing this they lose a lot of support and fail to gain grounds to the most disadvantaged.
Its crazy, I am with PBD on the idea of DEI and how to define the best for the postion, and I am also with RF on the idea that some of the standard ways of defining a candidate are not exactly the best predictor. It is the balance in between......the problem as RF says.....the system is not exactly optimized for truth and reality......that is where both sides are aggravated.
Very eloquent man ..very well-stated.
Love this guy.
I agree with PBD, 💯,all day long !!!
You can’t compare athletic ability and work ethic to opportunities in education and exposure
I hate that he likes the fact that 50% of first year students in Chicago University fail out. Thats horrendous. Who is going to pay back the study loans to the students who failed? Do you know how demotivating it can be to tell someone who isnt ready that they can do something, they try and fail? They wont want to try again because they were lied to. Its inhuman.
Just wondering out loud, has he ever collaborated with Sowell? Both guys are very practical.
But I guess appreciate ones oblivious unintentional views at hope you that we are different but all beautiful humans
I wish we all had the same opportunity, and I would hate to be admitted solely on his metrics. HOW WAS HE ADMITTED TO HARVARD ?
8:35 guest said that he said they were wrong (about DEI) while speaking PRO-DEI the first 8 minutes. I'm not so sure about this guy.
Preach 🙏
For example the movie "the green book"
figure out what it means to be the best person? what if i told you we already know what it means, Merit and having more skill, experience, or work ethic than the others trying to get the same position. why is harvard trying to rethink what best means.
Touche!
😂 it sounds like you're saying schools should evaluate more than just test scores which is what he was saying. Did you even watch the video?
Lol that's what he's saying. Not just test scores but challenged they had to come through; work ethic isn't something grades would show if the kids had to work and take care of his siblings and go to school
where did i mention school anywhere? this guy is trash. Meritocracy is better than the crap he was trying to add.@@Santanna536
😂 😂
Mann Talk HEAVY💪🏿Roland
I’ve never seen someone so afraid to say the truth. He’s trying to dodge it as best he can
genetic ability does exist
Do you think that its a coincidence that 80-90% of all NBA players are black?
Intelligence and scholastic ability is partially genetic as well
Not a coincidence but not genetics either, @@jeffreyrichard2575.
Basketball is inexpensive to play and sports is a gateway out of poverty.
Conversations about college admissions feel like homework.
Discrepancies really need to be addressed _before_ college age. I don't know how, but better education & setting is needed in developmental years. Safe & effective schools...perhaps via school choice.
Dude is amazing.
Everything should be skill and results based, not based in any way on immutable characteristics period.
The bottom line with this discussion is that life isn’t fair. There are many variables that go into a persons success. When you try to implement a system that attempts to balance an unfairness for one variable, that automatically makes it unfair for someone else due to another variable.
Yeah it sucks that life isn’t fair but skin color should never be taken into account when it comes to education because that is straight up racist. Programs that aid kids in poor areas are great, because that is strictly providing equal OPPORTUNITY for more people.
Yes he talked about low standards without saying it verbatim.
He did actually! Lower SAT scores that COULD have been higher if he had dinner everyday at 7 PM. 🙄
The delusion is thinking that anyone can ever know all the obstacles that anyone else had to overcome, let alone even knowing what your own obstacles have been. It is an unbelievable amount of hubris that leads a person to believe they can amalgamate someone’s race and economic situation and family situation and a million other factors in their lives that led to them being the person that they are, and you can arbitrarily decide that this person had it worse than that person, and therefore the person who came out with a worse outcome should benefit more than the person that came out with a better outcome. Let the results speak for themselves, and nothing else should matter one bit.
The PBD analogy with the BB players is just ridiculous.
Where do you stop with "what someone had to go through" as an outside factor?....you can't define it.
Thus the race to the bottom
"All DEI hires are equal, but some DEI hires are more equal than others."
Didn't Earn It
I was a swimmer and I was an "or" I was short (5'7) and had a decent feel for the water, but I shined in my ability to out work everyone including those who had a great feel for the water and that were built like frogmen. At the beginning in age group swimming they would crush me, but over time and prior to college I became faster than them due to my sheer determination to outwork them and get better by any means. I ended up going and swimming in college, and most of them didn't continue with the sport after high school. I always looked at them as wasted talent, and wondered what it would have been like if I had the genetic gifts they did.
Point is Roland is right, what separates the good from great is that you need BOTH. The natural abilities/tendencies (uncontrollable variables) and the grit/determination/willpower (controllable variables). If you are born with natural gifts, and never work hard or develop the "grit", you will always be good. If you don't have the natural gifts, but you have the "grit" you can potentially work yourself up to good, but your ceiling will be limited.
what matters is if you won the race not who spent more time in the pool.
They didn't give you a gold metal for effort.
You can’t quantitatively measure struggles, potential and talent, they’re subjective things. These are factors that exist and we should take all them into account when evaluating admissions and scholarships though. However, there’s no perfect or systemic way to compare two different people with two different upbringings, environments and resources. Privileges exist and we should be aware of them, and we should give opportunities to people who did a lot with a few things, or who did a lot with a lot of struggles versus someone who didn’t
Class would cover all kinds if it was considered with merit.
16:10 agreed
If merit was equal between all applicants in one specific placement, I’m all for diversity. But lowering standards for one race over another to allow them a chance they didn’t earn while pushing aside the person who did earn that opportunity.
The natural outcome will be to lower standards. Eventually you will run out of “Diamonds in the rough.” It’s a terrible system. The goal should be higher standards in kindergarten and primarily education to bring out the high performance in socially disadvantaged students.
I think the main conversation we need to be having is if we believe our institutions should be in the business of promoting upward mobility. Patrick clearly doesn't believe that even though he himself benefited by that. Why did his family move to the US if not fot a shot at a better life.
Pat wants to close the door once he's in.
I don't think that's what he's saying at all. I'm sure PBD would happily speak against economically-worthless college degrees which do anything but give you upward mobility; seeing as they barely contribute to your ability to get into a solid career, oftentimes at the price of serious debt.
If higher education and hiring are supposed to be strictly about providing you with upward mobility then you're indirectly arguing that rich kids with a lot to inherit should not be allowed to get good jobs or obtain degrees, or should have a higher bar to jump over. That gets into the notion of being punished for your parents' success, or implying that nothing about college has to do with enlightenment and research.
I think PBD's counterpoints are trying to say that if we are actually looking at a broad set of metrics to judge candidates against each other, then race has no purpose in being considered. The professor thinks race SHOULD be considered, but should not be the primary weight on the scales. He's looking in the right direction, but he's still a little ways off, in my opinion. I think the spirit of the country after the 14th Amendment was ratified and post-Civil Rights Movement implies that you are allowed discriminate however you want, so long as it's colorblind. And frankly, I don't think race is enough of a determinant on your upbringing and opportunities to succeed that it should be considered. West Virginia is full of destitute white people who've never had an opportunity they didn't fight for tooth and nail. And the professor himself elaborates that he doesn't think black kids like his or Obama's should have a leg up. It's just flimsy logic to try and point to race as some kind of productive factor in discriminating candidates.
@@drone1028Exactly