Well, 2 drops of sulphuric acid is a very small amount, and it's optional. Heck, you can spill 98% sulphuric acid on your hand and little will happen if you wash it off quickly. Chlorine gas, on the other hand...
Yeah and for me It will be the tub instead of the dish . I buy h-proxide in bulk as I use it for all my cleaning needs never thou thought of trying it for yellow plastic parts !!
Is there anyone doing this that I can send a box of plastic parts in the mail, have them do this procedure, then ship them back to me? I could probably fill a good sized box with plastic panels from old Commodore 64's, Amigas, Macs, and such that I have in storage that i'd like to make look new again. But I don't want to brew this concoction at home, especially considering the amount I'd need to make in order to dip some of the larger pieces in.
To answer people who ask why plastic turns yellow, it's because of degradation. PVC is the usual cheap plastic, filled with white but UV absorbant TiO2 (if it only has CaCO3/clay for indoor use, it yellows much faster in sunlight.) The PVC is an unstable molecule, and slowly releases HCl under thermal exposure or light exposure, maybe even ozone attack, and leaves behind an usaturated double bond. A single double bond is still colorless, only has strong UV absorbance color, it takes about 4-5 conjugated double bonds to bring the electron orbital quantum transition energies down into the visible range, where it absorbs blue, and leaves behind a a yellow color. Then, as the conjugated polyacetylene linear backbone, or even cyclized aromatic backbone grows, it starts absorbing throughout the visible region, and becomes graphitic black, or charred, usually only seen under thermal degradation, it would take an immense UV beating for it to happen.. There are stabilizers used for PVC, in old times you have basic lead carbonate (still used in every high voltage or cheap wire and cable (PVC has both high voltage breakdown and low cost, so it's used, except inner bundles of 100Mhz+ Cat5 wires because of dielectric loss tan delta is high, being a polar molecule, like water, it gets cooked and wobbled in microwaves, unlike polyethylene, or teflon used for fire retardant plenum wire, the fluorine-carbon bond being very tight and nonpolarizable. Old telephone and 10MHz Cat3 wire used PVC both for the jacket that holds the wires together, and for the twisted pair insulations, while 100Mhz Cat5/ 200 Mhz Cat5e/ 1GHz Cat6 only uses PVC as the outer jacket) because lead chloride is nonsoluble in water and maintains electrical volume resistivity against voltage, and some elecronics people got lead poisoning from their habit of chewing on bits and pieces of wire insulation), then Ca/Cd a bit less toxic, but also lower performance than lead, which is abandoned, then Ca/Zn which is still the only one approved for food contact, but not a very effective stabilizer at all, then organotin, the most effective stabilizer, slightly beating lead, and very mildly toxic, nowhere near as bad as Pb or Cd, but it's also expensive. I think Cd should only come up with stuff from the 70's or earlier, other than yellow pigment CdS, often used even today in McDonalds kids toys, and you read about it in the paper, but that's also nowhere near as soluble as the carboxylates used for stabilizers, so it may be unwarranted and overzealous journalism. Nobody really understands how stabilizers really work, they just do, and that's that. The future is trying to move away from PVC, to polyethyelenes and polypropylenes, over recycling and pollution issues, such as the fate of extremely slowly degrading PVC releasing organochlorine compounds into the environment. It is also difficult to incinerate without generating organochlorine pollutants, unlike most other plastic. However PVC is THE cheapest plastic, with excellent properties of strength, chemical resistance, corrosion resistance, and simply cannot be easily replaced in simple applications like plumbing or pressurized process pipes even with the polyethylenes, often because of cost. Cost and economics is often almost everything in whether something is viable or not, whether it's done or not. When you remove the color in the yellowed plastic you're basically removing the double bonds. If you can find a way where you leave the polymer backbone chain intact, and just hang other groups to shorten the lengths out of the visible range, that would be OK, but usually there is chain scission, and shortening of the polymer molecular weight, which causes loss of strength, brittleness, the whole thing falls to dust. So that's why the moderation is needed in the attack, break up the extensively conjugated double bonds to under 4 units, without backbone scission. By the way UHMWHDPE (ultra high molecular weight high density polyethylene) used in bullet proof vests owes its strength to the ultra high molecular weight, and viscous rubbing of very long spaghetting polymer molecules against each other, and if the molecular weight drops from backbone scissions, if you end up with shorter spaghetting, it pulls apart easier and it's no stronger than a regular shopping bag, which is made from HDPE, sometimes LDPE. By the way bleaching does not eliminated the problem, as it still leaves behind local double bonds, which are initiation sites for HCl unzippering during heat or UV attack. A possible aid could be, after bleaching the plastic like he did, soaking it in an organo tin sabilizer for a long time, possibly even using a bit of THF (tetrahydrofuran, the only true solvent for PVC), which can be distilled out from plumbers cement, (alongside with a lot of acetone and MEK, and a bit of cyclohexanone (which, if the heat is low enough, may not distill at all, but it's the one regulating the rate of complete drying, else it would be too fast with the other ones alone, and stress might build up from sudden hardening without enough time for semisolid-semifluid reflow), leaving behind regular PVC+silica gel residue) to let the stabilizer penetrate in better, and kind of build up a future reserve that can migrate to the surface and keep healing the backbone from double bonds during future attacks. Possibly loading it up with TiO2 somehow extracted from toothpaste can help make it both whiter, and protect it from UV. There are also organic UV protectants, usually used in transparent plastic, that could be soaked into the bulk, but they may not be as effective as a high surface concentration TiO2. Also some sunscreens might work, but beware the ZnO used in many of them is a Lewis acid PVC destabilizer once it turns into ZnCl2. And there is always spray paint. Black plastic is usually more degradation resistant because of strong light absorption, and with rubbery fillers, like impact modifiers present in almost all rigid PVC, it also much much increases their tensile strength. Carbon black is a huge miracle in rubber, it increases tire performance and resistance to abrasion or even simple tensile strength often 2-10 times from the pure white filled rubbers, like the elegant looking white tire sidewalls you used to see in old gangster movie car bombings depicting the 1920's. In PVC alone carbon black does not do much, other than absorb all light. It works in all unsaturated rubbers, and even in fully saturated ozone scission resistant EPDM-like rubbers too, which are similar to polyethylenes and propylenes, except for lack of crystal structure. It also does not do much in regular polyethylene, because that lacks the flexible structure which overstresses individual polymer chains and ruptures them chemically from mechanical stress into free radicals, free radicals which then can wobble about and get attacked to carbon black surface double bonds, and regain their extended strength. Polyethylenes are not fluid enough, they are too rigid for the free radical broken polymer chain end to be able to migrate to the carbon black surface.
Sillybillydilly Well most of this information went over my head I get the basic idea. Is there a way to keep solar panel collectors on my Pathway lights from oxidizing. I've heard silicone, waxing with car wax and a number of ideas what do you think?
Great Video! An easy made solution with great results. I can see why you were advised not to market this product. Chlorine in the home is not the best of chemical to have around. Thanks for the Info.....
The best thing about this method is that you're using a solution not a creme. Using a liquid will most likely get you an even result. All videos I see on youtube of people using Retr0bright, they say that a few spots remained so they would have to repeat the process. I'm definitely going to try this new solution.
Hey, thanks for the reply. I think with the solvent you get a small amount of what's called 'denaturing' at the surface and it kind of welds the plastic together a pit like the PVC pipe cements for waste pipe. Yes, we found that it's not a cure-all for all plastics, but it does work on styrene-based ones that use flame retardants.
sadly he stated it only has a shelf life of about 2-3 days .. which means by time it could ship to you it would be useless. so there is no product of this soultion
P.S. I have Skyfire his one arm is disconnected on mine but he is in mint shape still has the box it came with all the armor, gun and the little red colored film that you put on the back panel to see the graph of his strengths. It was my Dad's as a kid. It is a kick ass transformer for sure!
I don't know why... but I laughed and laughed when I watched this. I work with chemicals, I etch my own circuit boards, I anodize aluminum and also develop blueprints etc. Do you really think any normal person would do this to make plastic a shade lighter?
Of all chemical users, you are one of the best! I dislike how often plastic gets discolored, which makes mint polar white items more difficult to find every nanosecond and/or year.
This what happened when "Made in China" when chemical components is substitute w/ cheaper matrls (rubber, plastic, stainless, cotton- China will always mix any cheaper raw matrls to cut corners ALL the time).
Seems a too long and complocated if noot dangeerous solution.Why not ise T Cut, Brasso, or toothpaste, and bic card to make a slightly abrassive solution.applied with a toothbrush and a bit of effort.
Being a vintage toy collector and restorer I own both the Flagg and jetfire this video caught my attention unfortunately I’m not a chemist and don’t know any I wish I could use this product for one day lol
That was my point - it might take a few more steps (reactions) to release the or convert the chlorite into the required chlorine, after all, this is really just a highly reactive oxidation bleach it seems. But the idea is rather than peculating the chlorine gas through the methanol you might just as easily react a small amount of the hypochlorite. Again, just a thought.
myst32YT, Wow, you have no idea how perfectly taylored this video is to me (except for me lacking in chemistry skills)! The whole reason i looked into this information is because I JUST bought a Jetfire/Skyfire off eBay. I got him the Christmas of 1984 and it was the ONLY thing I wanted in the world that year and I got him. It's one of those special memories. Well, about 8 years back, my car for towed and for some STUPID reason, I had ALL my transformers, G.I. Joe's and HE-MAN toys in the car in a box. I never saw them again and to this day it hurts. But I was like what the Heck, and looked and found one on eBay. It's just him, no box but all the parts. But he's a little yellow in places (just like mine was). So I thought I would check RUclips out and you literally whitening a Jetfire. That is a crazy coincidence! But unfortunately, what you said about staying away from this method if I'm not familiar with chemistry is gonna pretty much be a road block for me. But, fortunately I see singer other hong's that could work. I just thought it was a very cool coincidence you were cleaning the exact object I am. Ok, that was long-winded😬 But thanks for the info!
no no, the chlorine reacts with the alcohol to make Chloral (or trichloroacetaldehyde) this means that the chlorine doesn't actually dissolve into the alcohol, but reacts with it
Hypochlorite is an aqueous ion so it wouldn't be compatible with pure alcohol (in fact liquid bleach + an alcohol forms undesirable side products); the plastic is non-polar so it needs a solvent like alcohol to transfer the chlorine atom more quickly into the surface of the plastic.
i guess why it cant be commercialized is because since it lasts only for a few days it means that have to make it from raw ingredients and the chlorine gas generator if misused would cause serious injury!! just find a way to make the solution last longer
You cannot sell to consumer because they are too STUPID to follow instructions. Not ALL, but MOST! Warning labels help, but simply knowing that it is possible to be misused is enough to open yourself up for law suits civil or otherwise. So although you may be able to save the world brain, pinky simply will never survive. Thank you for sharing.
You could soak a rag with the solution (while wearing gloves) and leave it sitting on the part you want to clean. That way you don't have to cut the game apart. I'm also sure there are other things that would do just as good as this and is easier and less dangerous for people. I have always wanted to try this with a little water and some oxyclean but never got around to it.
Things re-yellow because they undergo the same process that yellowed them in the first place. I can't give a proper answer, but I can't imagine them being much different.
@@seigeengine I'm gonna go with, this one the yellow will return much slower, because hydrochloric acid and chlorine gas baths are much more painful for the plastic, and hydrogen peroxide is something you can put in your hair, so the plastic will think twice before yellowing with this method
Wow, you went through a lot of trouble to discover this technique! Very impressive, thank you! I would love some advice on how to whiten a yellow plastic shower stall in my RV. Also a toilet lid in plastic. Shower stall is a vertical surface mostly, with a horizontal pan so I need an effective gel type of 'yellow remover'. This version is too risky to apply to a large vertical surface. Many thanks!
Have you tried Soft Scrub with bleach cream or gel? Found in most stores and really effective if you let it work for a few minutes & don't mind using a lot of elbow grease.
I figured out a way to restore dingy faded plastic with Strontium 9 and dynamite but decided it would be more prudent to stick with the retrObright method.
Using a peroxide hair treatment is much safer than this method. You can paint on the peroxide treatment,wrap in plastic wrap and place in sunlight for a few hours and it does the same thing only much cheaper.
While I'm not a chemist, this almost certainly does basically the same thing as retr0brite, just faster. Everything involved can also kill you, and you need to do this outside or in a fume hood because the chlorine gas can form acid when it comes into contact with water, like in your eyes, and lungs.
I'm your mediocre Electronic engineering student who happens to be good in inorganic chemistry and periodic table That's enough for me :D Crappy or not, it produces enough Cl and it is very easy to produce :D
I've heard toothpaste has enough grit to wear away the discolored surface. Then work it down with finer sandpapers. That's what a $15 headlight restoration kit will do anyway.
I'm a 11 year old kid I don't know much of chemistry and I love it. Could you post a video teaching chemistry and cool chemical reaction experiments I could try?
Can't argue with that. I love the old books that actually show you how to do stuff instead of the junky "chemistry" sets for kids today. What a sick joke. Thanks for watching.
Nice video. I bet, this could also work with sodium hypochlorite solution (or ethanol-sulfuric acid-sodium hypochlorate solution), wouldn't it? And ... what exactly happens to the yellow part of the plastic? What kind of ethanol exactly do you use for this? 96% ethanol? Thanks for your answers.
The kind you use for pools - I'm not sure of the actual composition, they are listed as 'stabilized' Chlorine tablets you can find them just about anywhere. I was thinking possibly you could just crush part of one up and dissolve it in methanol - though I don't know how miscible they are in an alcohol. Just a thought.
Hans Brandt It's faster and the use is more convenient than stroking a component with a paste (plus toothbrush) and letting it sit on the sun for hours. Provided you don't attempt to make chlorine in an indoor setting that is....
sulfuric acid chlorine and methanol( a form of alcohol, the only one that's drinkable(without dying) being ethanol, even then it's still poisonous) And you wanted this to be on store shelves?
He is VERY serious about chlorine gas killing you. Many large, community type swimming pools use, (in the past, anyway), chlorine gas to treat the water, because dry chlorine is unstable, and had a very short shelf life. In the late '70's, I was teaching PE at a Junior High. We had access to an outdoor parks & rec pool for a swimming section in our curriculum. One morning, I was in the bus with my class for the 5 minute ride to the pool. As the bus pulled into it's unloading spot, I saw the pool maintenance guy come running out of the mechanical building yelling, and waving his arms. I told everyone to sit down, and I got out to see what he was so excited about. When I got out, I then heard, "Chlorine leak, chlorine gas leak, get out of here!" I was back on the bus in half a second and told the kids to quiet down and you'll see something you may never see. About then, this bright green cloud starts raising up out of the mechanical room about 100 ft away. I started narrating and explaining to the kids as we watched this cloud slowly move from left to right across pool's lawn, rising slowly. When it got about 30-40 ft from the building, it hit a cedar tree. The dark green needles of the cedar INSTANTLY turned yellow/brown when the gas touched it. As it then got to a oak or maple tree, the green spring leaves instantly turned brown when the gas hit. During the minute or so it took for this to happen, I was explaining what the gas was, it's use, and why it was so dangerous. I never had to raise my voice above normal speech; the bus load of 7th graders were silent. Then, I raised my voice, and said to the bus driver, "Suppose we should get out of here, before the wind shifts?" THEN it got noisy... That was one of the most impressive, instant destruction I've ever seen. It had such an impact on me, it feels like it happened last week. Never did find out the back story about why the gas was leaking. Never saw the maintenance guy again. Maybe he got fired...
I worked lifeguard/pool maintenance in college. This happened at the water treatment plant next to the pool. I cleared everyone out of the pool, caught the maintenance guy at the sewage treatment plant down the street, and he went back to check - when he opened the gate, it was green/yellow inside the courtyard of the treatment building. The end result? The previous tank of chlorine had managed to eat the regulator, and the new tank just flooded straight out. New regulator, and the problem disappeared.
"yellow-green inside the courtyard" do you mean everything was stained that color, or was there a yellow-green cloud in the courtyard? You would think the regulator would be chlorine resistant... though the only chlorine material I know of, is plastic, and you can't make a regulator out of plastic cause of the tank pressures involved. Never thought of that before, quite the conundrum. I also was just wondering if they add the color to the chlorine gas to make it visible? The stuff is instant death, anyway, if it was invisible, that would be even worse.
At high concentrations, chlorine gas is yellowish. That's where 'Mustard' gas came from. The air had been completely still that day, and the fencing had woven plastic to make it almost sealed. Big cloud sitting there, that started to flood out when the gates were opened. Oh, yes - and his boss had not replaced the respirator/air tank that was supposed to be on his truck in case of gas leaks. Brass regulator with integrated pressure valve. He said the innards were almost completely gone.
Yikes!! Incompetance, gotta love it. I was just writing a reply at another site about a rental in NY I spend part of the year at. The hot water comes from the heating boiler, and I was tired of scalding my hands washing dishes. I checked the temp: 185° in 30 seconds. Third degree burns happen at 158°. Turns out the problem was an UNLABELED ball valve in a morass of pipes, incorrectly adjusted, which mixed cold water into the hot. A damn label was all that was really needed. YOU, though, are lucky. Lucky that you, or no one else got hurt or killed.
Well, when I started smelling the chlorine, I cleared everyone out fast - that was just common sense. As for the rest, I realized I hadn't started smelling it until shortly after the maintenance guy had left the treatment plant and was headed to the sewage plant. So I made an assumption that it was related, and got him. The rest of it was me just staying away until the smoke cleared, as it were. So not so much lucky as not being an idiot. Yeesh. Unlabeled valves aren't a big deal if they're easily differentiated, but having a huge mess of valves together without having labels wired into them? THAT'S crazy. And unfortunately common - seems like every warehouse I walk into has cages with enormous numbers of wheels and valves with no markings. (for the fire suppression systems as well as the normal water systems)
I wanted to try this out because I have access to a fume hood and a supplier that I could buy chlorine gas from. Unfortunately, the cost of a 34 L cylinder of chlorine gas was nearly $200, and was only 200 ppm chlorine. Wasn't gonna spend that kind of money to try this.
from the looks of it you were'nt generating chlorine gas (was already in flask) but rather adding heated aluminum to it to make aluminum-tetrachloride gas
Still on RUclips? A friend used the peroxide method and overdid the peroxide, causing the console to lose its' original coloring and look whiter than normal. It's a pricy item, I'm wondering if using this method would reverse the damages and restore its' original color? Would you be interested in doing this anymore? I'm sure he'd be happy to pay you fairly.
@@NerdyNEET Well I haven't been in touch with the person but, if you're up to help out I could send you info. It's a very rare PC Engine LT that he has 'ghosted', give it a Google search if interested.
Is this supposed to work on clear plastic as well? I have some small transparent figures that got yellow and I'd like to know if there is a way to turn them back to their original non-color :(
Hey Julian, did you try this method on your sneakers? Mine have netting too but I haven't tried this method and I'd like to know what your experience was.
Impressing! Especially the newspaper part... Would 30% hydrogen peroxide do the trick on yellowed plastics? Maybe with a little potassium iodide... I'd try it out myself, but I don't have any old toys.
This is a nerd fix: something someone with esoteric knowledge in a limited field will know how to do. This is not for the average SNES or other console restorer. It could be extremely dangerous if mishandled. Chlorine gas? Sulfuric acid? Someone is showing off.
Ok great video; yes a good knowledge of chemistry is required; a couple of things how environmentally friendly is this process? And how do you safely dispose of this mixture of chemicals?
+ILordSpawnI How plastic is yellowed works is the bromine that is used as a flame retardant starts to oxidize and turn plastic brown. This is often the case near a heat source or a source of UV light. The Oxyclean/ hydrogen peroxide method aims to reverse that chemical reaction. it works by trying to strip the oxygen from the oxygenated bromine, that oxygen reacts with the Hydrogen peroxide becoming O2 Oxygen and water (H20). It doesn't offer any sort of "magical" protection so the yellowing may still occur depending on where you store your retro plastics. The danger of using a method with chlorine is you can actually damage the plastic further because rather than reversing the oxidized bromine you can risk replacing the bromine with chlorine, weakling the plastic and making it brittle and risking turning your plastics green.
Doesn't any approach like this risk further oxidizing (or chlorinating) the plasticizers added to the plastic during manufacturing, causing it to yellow even faster in the future?
Hi, how would this do against cloth? I have some sneakers that have a plastic grid-like pattern over the cloth part, the grid is a bit yellow and I'd like to get rid of that but don't want to mess up the cloth which is a light grey color.
Please, could you write in the video description all the chemicals, concentration, proportions and glassware that you use to make the solution? Thanks.
I just drank the methanol and skipped steps 2, 3 and 4. I don't care about my yellowing plastic anymore... Or any of the other colors for that matter.
The Dollar Guy Hilarious!
The Dollar Guy lol!
Methanol blinds you! Weird.
@@EdwardTriesToScience And that is why he no longer cares about yellowing plastic. Its quite a quickfix!
@@Magisktification yes i know its a joke
(75 Alchemy skill required to perform this task)
Sulphuric acid... chlorine gas... yeahhhh, I think I'll just fill my mom's casserole dish with hydrogen peroxide and call it a day.
To be fair, hydrogen peroxide can be pretty dangerous if mishandled too.
Yeah though, this is substantially more dangerous.
Well, 2 drops of sulphuric acid is a very small amount, and it's optional. Heck, you can spill 98% sulphuric acid on your hand and little will happen if you wash it off quickly. Chlorine gas, on the other hand...
Yeah and for me It will be the tub instead of the dish . I buy h-proxide in bulk as I use it for all my cleaning needs never thou thought of trying it for yellow plastic parts !!
@@GRBtutorials Yup, 35% peroxide is sketchier than 98% H2SO4 IMO.
@@chertaylor3602 Yeah, a little H2O2 mixed with some pectin makes a brilliant gel for restoring the whiteness in light switches and plug sockets, etc.
Was thinking this would be simple! 'bubble chlorine gas...' That's when I said fuck it and stopped.
and he said retrobrite was cumbersome :)
''It's cheaper but it can blind you or kill you'' ....Well that's not good...
I'd call that a minor side effect :)
@Robert scuba My advice is to stop when you need glasses..
@@flatfac With only one child, it does make the decision that much easier...
@@SyntheticFuture 🤣
Is there anyone doing this that I can send a box of plastic parts in the mail, have them do this procedure, then ship them back to me? I could probably fill a good sized box with plastic panels from old Commodore 64's, Amigas, Macs, and such that I have in storage that i'd like to make look new again. But I don't want to brew this concoction at home, especially considering the amount I'd need to make in order to dip some of the larger pieces in.
You got it all sorted out I got here from your video you're the man
@sam onella are you high??
I know this is a old video. And and old comment. But I'm a chemistry student in uni with a lab willing to do this to some plastic parts.
To answer people who ask why plastic turns yellow, it's because of degradation. PVC is the usual cheap plastic, filled with white but UV absorbant TiO2 (if it only has CaCO3/clay for indoor use, it yellows much faster in sunlight.) The PVC is an unstable molecule, and slowly releases HCl under thermal exposure or light exposure, maybe even ozone attack, and leaves behind an usaturated double bond. A single double bond is still colorless, only has strong UV absorbance color, it takes about 4-5 conjugated double bonds to bring the electron orbital quantum transition energies down into the visible range, where it absorbs blue, and leaves behind a a yellow color. Then, as the conjugated polyacetylene linear backbone, or even cyclized aromatic backbone grows, it starts absorbing throughout the visible region, and becomes graphitic black, or charred, usually only seen under thermal degradation, it would take an immense UV beating for it to happen..
There are stabilizers used for PVC, in old times you have basic lead carbonate (still used in every high voltage or cheap wire and cable (PVC has both high voltage breakdown and low cost, so it's used, except inner bundles of 100Mhz+ Cat5 wires because of dielectric loss tan delta is high, being a polar molecule, like water, it gets cooked and wobbled in microwaves, unlike polyethylene, or teflon used for fire retardant plenum wire, the fluorine-carbon bond being very tight and nonpolarizable. Old telephone and 10MHz Cat3 wire used PVC both for the jacket that holds the wires together, and for the twisted pair insulations, while 100Mhz Cat5/ 200 Mhz Cat5e/ 1GHz Cat6 only uses PVC as the outer jacket) because lead chloride is nonsoluble in water and maintains electrical volume resistivity against voltage, and some elecronics people got lead poisoning from their habit of chewing on bits and pieces of wire insulation), then Ca/Cd a bit less toxic, but also lower performance than lead, which is abandoned, then Ca/Zn which is still the only one approved for food contact, but not a very effective stabilizer at all, then organotin, the most effective stabilizer, slightly beating lead, and very mildly toxic, nowhere near as bad as Pb or Cd, but it's also expensive. I think Cd should only come up with stuff from the 70's or earlier, other than yellow pigment CdS, often used even today in McDonalds kids toys, and you read about it in the paper, but that's also nowhere near as soluble as the carboxylates used for stabilizers, so it may be unwarranted and overzealous journalism. Nobody really understands how stabilizers really work, they just do, and that's that. The future is trying to move away from PVC, to polyethyelenes and polypropylenes, over recycling and pollution issues, such as the fate of extremely slowly degrading PVC releasing organochlorine compounds into the environment. It is also difficult to incinerate without generating organochlorine pollutants, unlike most other plastic. However PVC is THE cheapest plastic, with excellent properties of strength, chemical resistance, corrosion resistance, and simply cannot be easily replaced in simple applications like plumbing or pressurized process pipes even with the polyethylenes, often because of cost. Cost and economics is often almost everything in whether something is viable or not, whether it's done or not.
When you remove the color in the yellowed plastic you're basically removing the double bonds. If you can find a way where you leave the polymer backbone chain intact, and just hang other groups to shorten the lengths out of the visible range, that would be OK, but usually there is chain scission, and shortening of the polymer molecular weight, which causes loss of strength, brittleness, the whole thing falls to dust. So that's why the moderation is needed in the attack, break up the extensively conjugated double bonds to under 4 units, without backbone scission. By the way UHMWHDPE (ultra high molecular weight high density polyethylene) used in bullet proof vests owes its strength to the ultra high molecular weight, and viscous rubbing of very long spaghetting polymer molecules against each other, and if the molecular weight drops from backbone scissions, if you end up with shorter spaghetting, it pulls apart easier and it's no stronger than a regular shopping bag, which is made from HDPE, sometimes LDPE. By the way bleaching does not eliminated the problem, as it still leaves behind local double bonds, which are initiation sites for HCl unzippering during heat or UV attack. A possible aid could be, after bleaching the plastic like he did, soaking it in an organo tin sabilizer for a long time, possibly even using a bit of THF (tetrahydrofuran, the only true solvent for PVC), which can be distilled out from plumbers cement, (alongside with a lot of acetone and MEK, and a bit of cyclohexanone (which, if the heat is low enough, may not distill at all, but it's the one regulating the rate of complete drying, else it would be too fast with the other ones alone, and stress might build up from sudden hardening without enough time for semisolid-semifluid reflow), leaving behind regular PVC+silica gel residue) to let the stabilizer penetrate in better, and kind of build up a future reserve that can migrate to the surface and keep healing the backbone from double bonds during future attacks. Possibly loading it up with TiO2 somehow extracted from toothpaste can help make it both whiter, and protect it from UV. There are also organic UV protectants, usually used in transparent plastic, that could be soaked into the bulk, but they may not be as effective as a high surface concentration TiO2. Also some sunscreens might work, but beware the ZnO used in many of them is a Lewis acid PVC destabilizer once it turns into ZnCl2. And there is always spray paint.
Black plastic is usually more degradation resistant because of strong light absorption, and with rubbery fillers, like impact modifiers present in almost all rigid PVC, it also much much increases their tensile strength. Carbon black is a huge miracle in rubber, it increases tire performance and resistance to abrasion or even simple tensile strength often 2-10 times from the pure white filled rubbers, like the elegant looking white tire sidewalls you used to see in old gangster movie car bombings depicting the 1920's. In PVC alone carbon black does not do much, other than absorb all light. It works in all unsaturated rubbers, and even in fully saturated ozone scission resistant EPDM-like rubbers too, which are similar to polyethylenes and propylenes, except for lack of crystal structure. It also does not do much in regular polyethylene, because that lacks the flexible structure which overstresses individual polymer chains and ruptures them chemically from mechanical stress into free radicals, free radicals which then can wobble about and get attacked to carbon black surface double bonds, and regain their extended strength. Polyethylenes are not fluid enough, they are too rigid for the free radical broken polymer chain end to be able to migrate to the carbon black surface.
TLDR
Indigo Sunset the plastic breaks down
Sillybillydilly
Well most of this information went over my head I get the basic idea. Is there a way to keep solar panel collectors on my Pathway lights from oxidizing. I've heard silicone, waxing with car wax and a number of ideas what do you think?
Exactly
WHAT????
Great Video! An easy made solution with great results. I can see why you were advised not to market this product. Chlorine in the home is not the best of chemical to have around. Thanks for the Info.....
The best thing about this method is that you're using a solution not a creme. Using a liquid will most likely get you an even result. All videos I see on youtube of people using Retr0bright, they say that a few spots remained so they would have to repeat the process. I'm definitely going to try this new solution.
Hey, thanks for the reply. I think with the solvent you get a small amount of what's called 'denaturing' at the surface and it kind of welds the plastic together a pit like the PVC pipe cements for waste pipe. Yes, we found that it's not a cure-all for all plastics, but it does work on styrene-based ones that use flame retardants.
sadly he stated it only has a shelf life of about 2-3 days .. which means by time it could ship to you it would be useless. so there is no product of this soultion
P.S. I have Skyfire his one arm is disconnected on mine but he is in mint shape still has the box it came with all the armor, gun and the little red colored film that you put on the back panel to see the graph of his strengths. It was my Dad's as a kid. It is a kick ass transformer for sure!
simple enough.. just charge for the service of cleaning ppls yellow plastic
I don't know why... but I laughed and laughed when I watched this. I work with chemicals, I etch my own circuit boards, I anodize aluminum and also develop blueprints etc. Do you really think any normal person would do this to make plastic a shade lighter?
Of all chemical users, you are one of the best! I dislike how often plastic gets discolored, which makes mint polar white items more difficult to find every nanosecond and/or year.
Great idea! You need to find a way to stabilize the Cl2 in the MeOh and you got yourself a consumer product brother.
You sir are brilliant,and far too modest.very good video I watched the full thing,and have no knowledge of chemistry.thanks for the information!
Do you still have any samples from when you did these experiments? Have they yellowed as bad as typical post-retr0brite pieces?
You know you're old when something that came out in your mid teens is referred to as "vintage".
Sad but true
Please make new videos. You can now setup a patreon and patreons can pay you back for your money that you
spent making a video
This what happened when "Made in China" when chemical components is substitute w/ cheaper matrls (rubber, plastic, stainless, cotton- China will always mix any cheaper raw matrls to cut corners ALL the time).
you really must be good at chemistry if you came up with that solution your self. thats amazing and i love all your videos
Very good. It would be hard to make a commercial version of this product, but I hope you get a financial reward from future projects. Keep tinkering!
Seems a too long and complocated if noot dangeerous solution.Why not ise T Cut, Brasso, or toothpaste, and bic card to make a slightly abrassive solution.applied with a toothbrush and a bit of effort.
Being a vintage toy collector and restorer I own both the Flagg and jetfire this video caught my attention unfortunately I’m not a chemist and don’t know any I wish I could use this product for one day lol
That was my point - it might take a few more steps (reactions) to release the or convert the chlorite into the required chlorine, after all, this is really just a highly reactive oxidation bleach it seems. But the idea is rather than peculating the chlorine gas through the methanol you might just as easily react a small amount of the hypochlorite. Again, just a thought.
myst32YT, Wow, you have no idea how perfectly taylored this video is to me (except for me lacking in chemistry skills)! The whole reason i looked into this information is because I JUST bought a Jetfire/Skyfire off eBay. I got him the Christmas of 1984 and it was the ONLY thing I wanted in the world that year and I got him. It's one of those special memories. Well, about 8 years back, my car for towed and for some STUPID reason, I had ALL my transformers, G.I. Joe's and HE-MAN toys in the car in a box. I never saw them again and to this day it hurts. But I was like what the Heck, and looked and found one on eBay. It's just him, no box but all the parts. But he's a little yellow in places (just like mine was). So I thought I would check RUclips out and you literally whitening a Jetfire. That is a crazy coincidence! But unfortunately, what you said about staying away from this method if I'm not familiar with chemistry is gonna pretty much be a road block for me. But, fortunately I see singer other hong's that could work. I just thought it was a very cool coincidence you were cleaning the exact object I am. Ok, that was long-winded😬 But thanks for the info!
no no, the chlorine reacts with the alcohol to make Chloral (or trichloroacetaldehyde)
this means that the chlorine doesn't actually dissolve into the alcohol, but reacts with it
Hypochlorite is an aqueous ion so it wouldn't be compatible with pure alcohol (in fact liquid bleach + an alcohol forms undesirable side products); the plastic is non-polar so it needs a solvent like alcohol to transfer the chlorine atom more quickly into the surface of the plastic.
i guess why it cant be commercialized is because since it lasts only for a few days
it means that have to make it from raw ingredients
and the chlorine gas generator if misused would cause serious injury!!
just find a way to make the solution last longer
You cannot sell to consumer because they are too STUPID to follow instructions. Not ALL, but MOST! Warning labels help, but simply knowing that it is possible to be misused is enough to open yourself up for law suits civil or otherwise. So although you may be able to save the world brain, pinky simply will never survive. Thank you for sharing.
Nice optimization of the cumbersome retrobright method!
You could soak a rag with the solution (while wearing gloves) and leave it sitting on the part you want to clean. That way you don't have to cut the game apart. I'm also sure there are other things that would do just as good as this and is easier and less dangerous for people. I have always wanted to try this with a little water and some oxyclean but never got around to it.
So, it's been over four years now, how is the re-yellowing with this method in comparison to Retr0bright?
Things re-yellow because they undergo the same process that yellowed them in the first place. I can't give a proper answer, but I can't imagine them being much different.
@@seigeengine I'm gonna go with, this one the yellow will return much slower, because hydrochloric acid and chlorine gas baths are much more painful for the plastic, and hydrogen peroxide is something you can put in your hair, so the plastic will think twice before yellowing with this method
Elixer lmao 😂
Wow, you went through a lot of trouble to discover this technique! Very impressive, thank you!
I would love some advice on how to whiten a yellow plastic shower stall in my RV. Also a toilet lid in plastic. Shower stall is a vertical surface mostly, with a horizontal pan so I need an effective gel type of 'yellow remover'. This version is too risky to apply to a large vertical surface. Many thanks!
Have you tried Soft Scrub with bleach cream or gel? Found in most stores and really effective if you let it work for a few minutes & don't mind using a lot of elbow grease.
I figured out a way to restore dingy faded plastic with Strontium 9 and dynamite but decided it would be more prudent to stick with the retrObright method.
Using a peroxide hair treatment is much safer than this method. You can paint on the peroxide treatment,wrap in plastic wrap and place in sunlight for a few hours and it does the same thing only much cheaper.
Fantastic. So much better than retrobrite. Does this method do anything to help the brittleness of old plastic?
While I'm not a chemist, this almost certainly does basically the same thing as retr0brite, just faster. Everything involved can also kill you, and you need to do this outside or in a fume hood because the chlorine gas can form acid when it comes into contact with water, like in your eyes, and lungs.
I'm your mediocre Electronic engineering student who happens to be good in inorganic chemistry and periodic table
That's enough for me :D Crappy or not, it produces enough Cl
and it is very easy to produce :D
Finally, someone has investigated reversing the chemical change, rather than just bleaching plastic. Congrats!
I've heard toothpaste has enough grit to wear away the discolored surface. Then work it down with finer sandpapers. That's what a $15 headlight restoration kit will do anyway.
Quite nice. I'm not sure I'll ever use it, but it's fascinating to know that this can be done. maybe someday.
Why stopped making awesome stuff of chemistry
Plz start again after 8 years no new video posted
Also wondering same
@@user-oz5iy4bl1u yeah
I'm a 11 year old kid I don't know much of chemistry and I love it. Could you post a video teaching chemistry and cool chemical reaction experiments I could try?
Can't argue with that. I love the old books that actually show you how to do stuff instead of the junky "chemistry" sets for kids today. What a sick joke.
Thanks for watching.
This was very interesting and informative. Thanks!
Nice video.
I bet, this could also work with sodium hypochlorite solution (or ethanol-sulfuric acid-sodium hypochlorate solution), wouldn't it? And ... what exactly happens to the yellow part of the plastic? What kind of ethanol exactly do you use for this? 96% ethanol?
Thanks for your answers.
The kind you use for pools - I'm not sure of the actual composition, they are listed as 'stabilized' Chlorine tablets you can find them just about anywhere. I was thinking possibly you could just crush part of one up and dissolve it in methanol - though I don't know how miscible they are in an alcohol. Just a thought.
Myst, I miss your videos. Will you be coming back to RUclips anytime soon?
He has been on RUclips this whole time! BaremetalHW... he uses his chemistry to restore vintage Hot Wheels on RUclips now lol.
How is this easier than retrolight? :[
Hans Brandt It's faster and the use is more convenient than stroking a component with a paste (plus toothbrush) and letting it sit on the sun for hours. Provided you don't attempt to make chlorine in an indoor setting that is....
sulfuric acid
chlorine
and methanol( a form of alcohol, the only one that's drinkable(without dying) being ethanol, even then it's still poisonous)
And you wanted this to be on store shelves?
So basically you have to be a chemist with a lab and a LOT of experience and equipment to do this....
tygrr94 Not really. He's just saying that because he doesn't want people who have no idea of the dangers of these chemicals to hurt themselves.
He is VERY serious about chlorine gas killing you.
Many large, community type swimming pools use, (in the past, anyway), chlorine gas to treat the water, because dry chlorine is unstable, and had a very short shelf life.
In the late '70's, I was teaching PE at a Junior High. We had access to an outdoor parks & rec pool for a swimming section in our curriculum.
One morning, I was in the bus with my class for the 5 minute ride to the pool.
As the bus pulled into it's unloading spot, I saw the pool maintenance guy come running out of the mechanical building yelling, and waving his arms.
I told everyone to sit down, and I got out to see what he was so excited about. When I got out, I then heard, "Chlorine leak, chlorine gas leak, get out of here!"
I was back on the bus in half a second and told the kids to quiet down and you'll see something you may never see.
About then, this bright green cloud starts raising up out of the mechanical room about 100 ft away. I started narrating and explaining to the kids as we watched this cloud slowly move from left to right across pool's lawn, rising slowly.
When it got about 30-40 ft from the building, it hit a cedar tree. The dark green needles of the cedar INSTANTLY turned yellow/brown when the gas touched it.
As it then got to a oak or maple tree, the green spring leaves instantly turned brown when the gas hit.
During the minute or so it took for this to happen, I was explaining what the gas was, it's use, and why it was so dangerous. I never had to raise my voice above normal speech; the bus load of 7th graders were silent.
Then, I raised my voice, and said to the bus driver, "Suppose we should get out of here, before the wind shifts?"
THEN it got noisy...
That was one of the most impressive, instant destruction I've ever seen. It had such an impact on me, it feels like it happened last week.
Never did find out the back story about why the gas was leaking. Never saw the maintenance guy again. Maybe he got fired...
I worked lifeguard/pool maintenance in college. This happened at the water treatment plant next to the pool. I cleared everyone out of the pool, caught the maintenance guy at the sewage treatment plant down the street, and he went back to check - when he opened the gate, it was green/yellow inside the courtyard of the treatment building. The end result? The previous tank of chlorine had managed to eat the regulator, and the new tank just flooded straight out. New regulator, and the problem disappeared.
"yellow-green inside the courtyard"
do you mean everything was stained that color, or was there a yellow-green cloud in the courtyard?
You would think the regulator would be chlorine resistant... though the only chlorine material I know of, is plastic, and you can't make a regulator out of plastic cause of the tank pressures involved.
Never thought of that before, quite the conundrum.
I also was just wondering if they add the color to the chlorine gas to make it visible?
The stuff is instant death, anyway, if it was invisible, that would be even worse.
At high concentrations, chlorine gas is yellowish. That's where 'Mustard' gas came from. The air had been completely still that day, and the fencing had woven plastic to make it almost sealed. Big cloud sitting there, that started to flood out when the gates were opened. Oh, yes - and his boss had not replaced the respirator/air tank that was supposed to be on his truck in case of gas leaks. Brass regulator with integrated pressure valve. He said the innards were almost completely gone.
Yikes!!
Incompetance, gotta love it. I was just writing a reply at another site about a rental in NY I spend part of the year at. The hot water comes from the heating boiler, and I was tired of scalding my hands washing dishes.
I checked the temp: 185° in 30 seconds. Third degree burns happen at 158°. Turns out the problem was an UNLABELED ball valve in a morass of pipes, incorrectly adjusted, which mixed cold water into the hot. A damn label was all that was really needed.
YOU, though, are lucky. Lucky that you, or no one else got hurt or killed.
Well, when I started smelling the chlorine, I cleared everyone out fast - that was just common sense. As for the rest, I realized I hadn't started smelling it until shortly after the maintenance guy had left the treatment plant and was headed to the sewage plant. So I made an assumption that it was related, and got him. The rest of it was me just staying away until the smoke cleared, as it were. So not so much lucky as not being an idiot. Yeesh. Unlabeled valves aren't a big deal if they're easily differentiated, but having a huge mess of valves together without having labels wired into them? THAT'S crazy. And unfortunately common - seems like every warehouse I walk into has cages with enormous numbers of wheels and valves with no markings. (for the fire suppression systems as well as the normal water systems)
I wanted to try this out because I have access to a fume hood and a supplier that I could buy chlorine gas from. Unfortunately, the cost of a 34 L cylinder of chlorine gas was nearly $200, and was only 200 ppm chlorine. Wasn't gonna spend that kind of money to try this.
Damn..this video looks older than the plastic
from the looks of it you were'nt generating chlorine gas (was already in flask) but rather adding heated aluminum to it to make aluminum-tetrachloride gas
Thinking I can do this since it isn't dangerous like retrobriting. Oh I might die.
Just use Salon care developer , brush it on put in airtight bag and put in sun.... Presto like new!
Still on RUclips? A friend used the peroxide method and overdid the peroxide, causing the console to lose its' original coloring and look whiter than normal. It's a pricy item, I'm wondering if using this method would reverse the damages and restore its' original color? Would you be interested in doing this anymore? I'm sure he'd be happy to pay you fairly.
@@NerdyNEET Well I haven't been in touch with the person but, if you're up to help out I could send you info. It's a very rare PC Engine LT that he has 'ghosted', give it a Google search if interested.
How are solutions like this disposed of after use? I can't imagine just pouring this down a drain.
It would be illegal to do that, there are clear procedures on disposal of toxic organic compounds.
Pretty sure making Chloral hydrate is illegal in the US without proper permits
This doesnt seem as safe for plastic as it is with UV light and peroxyde
Guy must be pretty genius to figure this out! Way beyond me!
1 Where have you been I've missed you?!
2 Would a bulky aliphatic solvent like cyclohexane or decane be appropriate?
How can this go wrong, I say FULL STEAM AHEAD!!!
Dangerous chemicals, fire and poisonous gases to fix a 5 dollar toy.
So this is essentially bleach made with an alcohol base instead of water base?
I was hoping this was something you can just wipe on and it removes it ...wow
Interesting but first step you don't have to do there product containing bot ethylene and methanol and that is Anti Freeze
Is this supposed to work on clear plastic as well? I have some small transparent figures that got yellow and I'd like to know if there is a way to turn them back to their original non-color :(
Hey Julian, did you try this method on your sneakers? Mine have netting too but I haven't tried this method and I'd like to know what your experience was.
This would be great if it were already made, but for someone like me, there is no way I will mess around with this!
the chlorine gas killed this guy
+myst32YT so you're active technically, but you haven't uploaded in 3 years?
+Bladez Andrew right...
+myst32YT Yeap, E.R. just reported that he's alive, but his cat now turned all-white... The guy said next time he is going to try it with phosgene...
+myst32YT Then, where are you?
+myst32YT I need some stuff whitened
Impressing! Especially the newspaper part...
Would 30% hydrogen peroxide do the trick on yellowed plastics?
Maybe with a little potassium iodide...
I'd try it out myself, but I don't have any old toys.
Thanks for the video. I think I'll pass on these chemicals. LOL.
thanks for info.....shame you cant make money out of it
That yellowing is just old decomposed flame-retardant. So if your uhh, house catches or your NES sparks uhh... shit.
This is a nerd fix: something someone with esoteric knowledge in a limited field will know how to do. This is not for the average SNES or other console restorer. It could be extremely dangerous if mishandled. Chlorine gas? Sulfuric acid? Someone is showing off.
I am wondering how this method negatively affects plastics overall compared to common retrobriting...a decent experiment though.
This was really useful!!! thanks a lot from Mexico man!
Ok great video; yes a good knowledge of chemistry is required; a couple of things how environmentally friendly is this process? And how do you safely dispose of this mixture of chemicals?
Chlorine and methanol, very good! Somehow I'll try it with bleach and ethanol and call it a day.
What is a reasonable responsible way to dispose of your left over product?
feed it to someone you dislike
Good video, does it stay bright after a year as ive heard it just goes brown again very quickly?
Ugh. Everything to de-yellow plastics is too complex. x.x. I wish there was a shop somewhere I could simply send my Famicom to for de-yellowing.
its been 7 years
I'm still surprised that he actually needed to pay a lawyer to help him figure it out that this was not exactly a marketable over the counter product.
I heard that Retr0bright only works for a while and in a few years the yellowing comes back. Do you still have the parts? how did they hold up?
+ILordSpawnI How plastic is yellowed works is the bromine that is used as a flame retardant starts to oxidize and turn plastic brown. This is often the case near a heat source or a source of UV light. The Oxyclean/ hydrogen peroxide method aims to reverse that chemical reaction. it works by trying to strip the oxygen from the oxygenated bromine, that oxygen reacts with the Hydrogen peroxide becoming O2 Oxygen and water (H20). It doesn't offer any sort of "magical" protection so the yellowing may still occur depending on where you store your retro plastics. The danger of using a method with chlorine is you can actually damage the plastic further because rather than reversing the oxidized bromine you can risk replacing the bromine with chlorine, weakling the plastic and making it brittle and risking turning your plastics green.
That's one hell of an answer. Thanks for taking the time to answer it.
Doesn't any approach like this risk further oxidizing (or chlorinating) the plasticizers added to the plastic during manufacturing, causing it to yellow even faster in the future?
Is it to late for you to market your product? This is a really sweet idea!
It's interesting, but until Wal-Mart starts selling the ingredients, I'll stick with making Retr0bright.
Hi, how would this do against cloth? I have some sneakers that have a plastic grid-like pattern over the cloth part, the grid is a bit yellow and I'd like to get rid of that but don't want to mess up the cloth which is a light grey color.
Make a company or something where people can send you plastic parts for you to treat with this method.
Please, could you write in the video description all the chemicals, concentration, proportions and glassware that you use to make the solution? Thanks.
very nice and informative
I miss your videos :( You and nurdrage are my favourite channels.
This demonstration makes me wonder what kind of material has been created by the chlorination. Was it methyl chloride by any chance?
So, by adding Sulfuric acid. Are you dehydrating the alcohol? If so, what does it do to methanol... Does it just make a carbocation?
Trying to refurb a old keyboard...lemme just grab my gas generator and chlorine gas :D
I used a normal bath soap,it somehow works,ijust applied it ,to the plastic leave for awhile or two.