Nice to see how it’s done properly. I have an 8.5x16’ tandem axle Agassiz trailer (6k axles). My tires have been wearing unevenly since it was new (wearing on inside of front tires). It’s now been 4 years of troubleshooting and the manufacturer has steered me toward bearing issues, bent axle, bent spindle, etc. (In fairness, those seem to be the most common things anyone in the industry or internet want to discuss, along with springs etc.) However, after much troubleshooting by my neighbor, we found that the spacing between my hangers are all different and varying as much as 1/4” from one side to the other - additionally we found that the axles are 5/16” further apart on passenger side than drivers side (when measuring the Hub-to-Hub distance). Further careful measurements showed that the front hanger to ball is 3/16” shorter on passenger side, and this is echoed by the front axle hub to ball measurement also being 3/16” shorter on passenger side. The rear axle hub to ball is 2/16” longer on passenger side, which I am to assume accounts for the 5/16” total difference in axle spacing that I mentioned. I’ve provided all of these measurements and detailed drawings to the manufacturer and he will not even acknowledge it. He laughed at me for even trying to troubleshoot on my own, and says it’s definitely just a bent spindle that is the issue. I’d like to hear him or someone else tell me that the variations in hanger measurements we have discovered are within acceptable tolerances so that I can have peace of mind in considering an axle or spindle fix. But he will not acknowledge or discuss the measurements - and the whole Internet seems to just take for granted that the hangers are never the concern, and that the issue will be in the other replaceable components. I’ve spent thousands of dollars now on replaced tires, bearings, and many days of frustration for myself, father, and neighbor while troubleshooting. This was a brand new $25,000 trailer and after all this, the owner of the company will not return my phone calls and will only give me a 2 sentence email response. I am not looking for sympathy for my hardships or vengeance for poor customer service and seemingly poor workmanship - I just want it done properly now - and replacing/repairing the axle/spindle doesn’t address the haphazard hanger placement. Do you think the hanger variations I listed are within tolerance? The meticulous efforts with your jig made it seem critical to be precise (I mean, obviously!), but I also noticed you seemed more concerned with duplicating initial hanger placement relative to the trailer, rather than confirming equal measurements to the ball, which also seems to take for granted that they were installed properly by the manufacturer to begin with. Thank you dearly if there’s any insight you can provide.
Great work ! The “ALIGNMENT/ FRAMEWORK / SUSPENSION ” Technician ALWAYS HAS THE GEARS WHIRRING TO FIND A MORE ACCURATE AND EASIER WAY. CONGRATULATIONS !
I use tram gauges. Some are the old school variety from my body shop days. I also made one long one. I use it to swing an arc from the front dead center back to where the first hanger needs to attach. That ensures the axle will be in alignment regardless of any shenanigans with the trailer (two guys welding stringers, one mounts them on the opposite side of the mark from the other guy). I have trust issues. LOL.
we used to use trams as well from our alignment machine. problem I had was sometimes the frame rails are ........snakey...... so this was my solution for if the frame rails just don't go straight down the trailer. seems to work fast and effective.
@@simcoespring wouldn’t angle iron work better in case the flat metal is slightly bent or bows out some ? I like the idea . I am adding a third axle to my trailer and was going to use that as a way to put them in, and replace my first equalizer bracket as it needs to be moved and replaced .
@@simcoespring What's the best advice you can give me, I have 20' enclosed and the frame is bent on both rails, pushing to the drivers side 1 1/2", putting a 4x6 by 1/4 angle 6ft long, ran a string line from front to back of trailer frame and waiting for parts now, thinking about the best method for correct measurements...
This helpful. I have a Bigfoot travel trailer and would like to install a taller hangar for the equalizer as this trailer uses an unusual six inch tall, six across equalizer and I want to install Lippert Road Armor shock type equalizers which are shorter. My alternative is to mount all new equalizers to a 2x3 square tubing and do a lift on the trailer by removing the old hangars and welding the pre fab tube/hangers to it. Anyhow, I subscribed. I'm not a decent welder so I would end up with a mobile welder but otherwise I have all the tools and capability to do this in my shop. Thanks for the vid.
Flat bar has virtually no strength or ability to stay straight in the plane you were going for. Your heads in the right place though. Use some square tubing that fits snug on the inside, or use some angle iron so it doesn’t bow like a banana like it can using flat stock.
Just came up with the idea a few days before the video and it works so well. Now if we replace a single hanger we just bolt the jig to the middle hanger and bolt one to the front or rear. Instantly lined up.
@@simcoespring The big question is. Are you going to keep your jig? Or don't you do alot of hangers? I probably have 5 or 6 of them. For different placements of hangers.
@@ifitsnotbrokenfixit1193. Same question I had. With that 1/2” thick strap he could drill and mark multiple different hanger spacing. Having one Jig able to be used for many different spacing options.
Nice. I bet you could temporarily leave the best old hanger up, attach your jig and tack two new ones, then remove the last one and put your 3rd new one on the jig and tack.
The ones I just bought has bolt holes to bolt these on, I presume that will be okay instead of welding. What do you think? BTW, Clever n simple jig. Well done.
depends on how much you use the trailer or how much mileage you put on the trailer. The more mileage you do, the more you want the grease able bushings.
Smooth with that torch! I've got to install some new hangers on an old camper trailer I tore down. probably use this method. would you recommend putting axels dead center of the frame? 20’. right now, there to far back, making it really Toung heavy.
The idea is to have 10% tongue weight, so if the trailer weights 5000lbs, then you should have 500lbs tongue weight. you want a minimum of about 50-75lbs tongue weight on a trailer that is empty. You can use this technique, or you can also weld all the hangers to a 2" x 1/4" flat bar (around 62" long or however long you need to mount all 3 hangers to it) that way you can F-clamp the flat bar to the frame rail, bolt your suspension and axles and tires and everything together...and put the weight down on the trailer and move it back and forth till the tongue weight is all set to the correct weights you want. The final option is to use the 60% rule. figure out the length of the trailer and put the center hanger back 60% of the way down the trailer. so if it is 140" long, then mount the hanger 84" back from the front. that calculation is... trailer length x 0.60 = x or 140 x 0.60 = 84" So there is a lot of different options, however I would not put the hanger in the middle of the trailer unless you have a 50-75 lbs box, toolbox or something mounted to the front of the trailer, because you WANT and NEED tongue weight. 50-75ish lbs is perfect for towing an empty flat bed utility trailer. Camper trailers have 500-700lbs tongue weight float trailer can have over 400 lbs tongue weight depending on the dry weight of the trailer. 4000lbs empty trailer, 400lbs tongue weight.
@@simcoespring I really appreciate the detailed response! I'll probably do the 60/40 rule. the trailer turned out to be a 6' by 20'. the tongue is probably another 3/4'. so, I was thinking about placing my first axel at about 12 feet from the front, hoping to get about the 60/40 I mentioned. I'm going to take everything you've said into consideration. not real equipped to do this kind of job but I'll make it work somehow. but Ya man I greatly appreciate the response!!!
@@simcoespring ok because mine came with castle nut but if I tighten it up to that amount of play the hole is to far out for the cotter pin to hold it . So I put a lock nut on it
I bought a 2014 Mirage 6x10. There isn’t a square piece on it! I needed to weld new spring hangers on it and couldn’t get a matching measurement from side to side or front to back, no matter where I pulled from. I would not buy a Mirage trailer ever again.
that sounds horrible. There is a chart www.cerka.ca/suspension/double-eye-springs It will show you which measurements to set your hangers at. I find it super helpful. (that is if you decide to put new hangers on your trailer)
Nice work, I bought some hangers but they are 2" wide on the inside which leaves a 1/4" of play. Is this too much play? My old hangers are 1.875" wide on the inside.
Some times when they manufacture bends them, they are a little oversized, however usually not that much. You can get 1 3/4" wide and 2" wide, so maybe you just ended up with the wrong bracket. measure closer to the top to make sure that it isn't just a little bit opened up a the bottom...if not, looks like you got the wrong ones.
how do you get them parallel to each other so everything bolts in perfectly. what magnets do you use that holds a hanger like this up. how do you set the alignment on all 6 hangers at the same time with just a magnet.
This almost requires its own video Basically what we do is we run a tape measure from a 3 ball hitch and run it down the length of the trailer to each hanger. that will give you a reference point. Most of the time we normally just reference the old hangers, or at least find a common reference place on the trailer. It can be challenging. Where is the placement of a single axle? same place you mount a tandem axle. We always find a center point where the axle(s) are going to mount. Where do you find the mounting point? we normally go with the 60% rule. measure your box and put the axles 60% back. if you have a tail gate that is heavy, go 70% back. If your trailer is mostly complete, then you can mount the hangers and the suspension and the tries and everything to a bar like in this video: ruclips.net/video/LG0VeiKBakM/видео.html and you can roll the suspension forwards and backwards and get the tongue weight to about 50-400 lbs depending on the trailer size. Tongue weights should be around: 50lbs for a small single axle utility trailer 100lbs for a small tandem utility trailer 250lbs for an enclosed tandem axle utility trailer 400lbs or more for a massive dump trailer or flat deck trailer you would pull behind a F350 or F550 or something big like that. loaded trailers should have around 10% of the weight of the trailer in tongue weight, so if your trailer weighs 4000lbs empty, it should have 400LBs tongue weight when it is empty. If it is 9000lbs then it should have 900lbs tongue weight. 5th wheel trailers can have as much as 20% tongue weight. So a trailer that is 9000lbs can have as much as 1800 lbs tongue weight. Trailers with no tongue weight, negative tongue weight or too much tongue weight can cause you to lose control of your vehicle. This is a very complex and Nuanced topic and I would highly recommend doing some more research...these are rough measurements and just to give you some idea of what to do. do more research yourself before you commit to welding your hangers on.
Thanks man. The 60% rule was what I wanted to hear. And exactly the same length from the first spring hanger to center of the tow Ball. And exactly the same length for the other side .
![HOW TO ACCURATELY PLACE AND SQUARE TRAILER AXLES ] Step by Step instructions](/img/1.gif)
Nice to see how it’s done properly. I have an 8.5x16’ tandem axle Agassiz trailer (6k axles). My tires have been wearing unevenly since it was new (wearing on inside of front tires). It’s now been 4 years of troubleshooting and the manufacturer has steered me toward bearing issues, bent axle, bent spindle, etc. (In fairness, those seem to be the most common things anyone in the industry or internet want to discuss, along with springs etc.) However, after much troubleshooting by my neighbor, we found that the spacing between my hangers are all different and varying as much as 1/4” from one side to the other - additionally we found that the axles are 5/16” further apart on passenger side than drivers side (when measuring the Hub-to-Hub distance).
Further careful measurements showed that the front hanger to ball is 3/16” shorter on passenger side, and this is echoed by the front axle hub to ball measurement also being 3/16” shorter on passenger side. The rear axle hub to ball is 2/16” longer on passenger side, which I am to assume accounts for the 5/16” total difference in axle spacing that I mentioned.
I’ve provided all of these measurements and detailed drawings to the manufacturer and he will not even acknowledge it. He laughed at me for even trying to troubleshoot on my own, and says it’s definitely just a bent spindle that is the issue. I’d like to hear him or someone else tell me that the variations in hanger measurements we have discovered are within acceptable tolerances so that I can have peace of mind in considering an axle or spindle fix. But he will not acknowledge or discuss the measurements - and the whole Internet seems to just take for granted that the hangers are never the concern, and that the issue will be in the other replaceable components.
I’ve spent thousands of dollars now on replaced tires, bearings, and many days of frustration for myself, father, and neighbor while troubleshooting. This was a brand new $25,000 trailer and after all this, the owner of the company will not return my phone calls and will only give me a 2 sentence email response. I am not looking for sympathy for my hardships or vengeance for poor customer service and seemingly poor workmanship - I just want it done properly now - and replacing/repairing the axle/spindle doesn’t address the haphazard hanger placement.
Do you think the hanger variations I listed are within tolerance? The meticulous efforts with your jig made it seem critical to be precise (I mean, obviously!), but I also noticed you seemed more concerned with duplicating initial hanger placement relative to the trailer, rather than confirming equal measurements to the ball, which also seems to take for granted that they were installed properly by the manufacturer to begin with.
Thank you dearly if there’s any insight you can provide.
Great work ! The “ALIGNMENT/ FRAMEWORK / SUSPENSION ” Technician ALWAYS HAS THE GEARS WHIRRING TO FIND A MORE ACCURATE AND EASIER WAY. CONGRATULATIONS !
I use tram gauges. Some are the old school variety from my body shop days. I also made one long one. I use it to swing an arc from the front dead center back to where the first hanger needs to attach. That ensures the axle will be in alignment regardless of any shenanigans with the trailer (two guys welding stringers, one mounts them on the opposite side of the mark from the other guy). I have trust issues. LOL.
we used to use trams as well from our alignment machine. problem I had was sometimes the frame rails are ........snakey...... so this was my solution for if the frame rails just don't go straight down the trailer. seems to work fast and effective.
@@simcoespring wouldn’t angle iron work better in case the flat metal is slightly bent or bows out some ? I like the idea . I am adding a third axle to my trailer and was going to use that as a way to put them in, and replace my first equalizer bracket as it needs to be moved and replaced .
@@simcoespring
What's the best advice you can give me, I have 20' enclosed and the frame is bent on both rails, pushing to the drivers side 1 1/2", putting a 4x6 by 1/4 angle 6ft long, ran a string line from front to back of trailer frame and waiting for parts now, thinking about the best method for correct measurements...
I have found that a 6 inch grinder with cut off wheels works really good for cutting small welds like that and it is nice and clean
The man with a chocker has good pride advice with fixing trailers
As in every video I have seen, you do great work and always have an attention to detail and doing things right! Never a get by attitude!! Thanks !!
As always, a job well done and thawed out. Excellent description and presentation.
We have welded 1/2” plates on the outside of the brackets with new holes, your method would give a more accurate position of the new holes, nice work!
"You don't want it really sloppy and loose" Ain't that the truth !
Have to replace one hanger first thing in the morning, this video is perfect thank you!
Hope it helps. you can also make a smaller one to just attach one hanger
@@simcoespring my plan exactly!
I pretty fond of perfect hangers. 😉
Must be nice to have a pit for this kind of work. Ive done this job several times on the floor.
Fantastic lookin welds
Awsome tips. Thank you
To maintain the strength of the spring hanger.. The heat from the weld interrupts the grain structure of the hanger.
Is that from gravitational pull or centrifugal circumference of nomenclature?
This helpful. I have a Bigfoot travel trailer and would like to install a taller hangar for the equalizer as this trailer uses an unusual six inch tall, six across equalizer and I want to install Lippert Road Armor shock type equalizers which are shorter. My alternative is to mount all new equalizers to a 2x3 square tubing and do a lift on the trailer by removing the old hangars and welding the pre fab tube/hangers to it. Anyhow, I subscribed. I'm not a decent welder so I would end up with a mobile welder but otherwise I have all the tools and capability to do this in my shop. Thanks for the vid.
Flat bar has virtually no strength or ability to stay straight in the plane you were going for. Your heads in the right place though. Use some square tubing that fits snug on the inside, or use some angle iron so it doesn’t bow like a banana like it can using flat stock.
interesting idea. if i could find some 1 3/4" x 1 3/4" HSS steel about 1/8-1/16 thick that would be perfect.
Thinking the same thing. I like the concept, but angle or square would be better
And I thought I had a secret. To putting on hangers. 🤣
So much faster than tapping each one.
Just came up with the idea a few days before the video and it works so well.
Now if we replace a single hanger we just bolt the jig to the middle hanger and bolt one to the front or rear. Instantly lined up.
@@simcoespring The big question is. Are you going to keep your jig? Or don't you do alot of hangers? I probably have 5 or 6 of them. For different placements of hangers.
@@ifitsnotbrokenfixit1193. Same question I had. With that 1/2” thick strap he could drill and mark multiple different hanger spacing. Having one Jig able to be used for many different spacing options.
Nice job
Nice. I bet you could temporarily leave the best old hanger up, attach your jig and tack two new ones, then remove the last one and put your 3rd new one on the jig and tack.
yup, or if you need to replace only 1 or 2 hangers it works too.
Hose's last longer and leak less when slag is not blown on them
yup, I always buy the Fire Resistant hoses for this reason. We rarely have blow out but thanks for the concern.
The ones I just bought has bolt holes to bolt these on, I presume that will be okay instead of welding. What do you think? BTW, Clever n simple jig. Well done.
those hole are for puddle welding, not for bolts. definitely weld them on.
@@simcoespring I see them bolted up on trucks and cars, I thought it would be okay. Is it because drilling the holes would weaken the frame too much?
Would you replace the slipper spring plastic bushing with a bronze one or just use the plastic ones
depends on how much you use the trailer or how much mileage you put on the trailer. The more mileage you do, the more you want the grease able bushings.
i would use C channel instead of flat bar, flat bar is not stiff enough so you might be off it it has any sort of arch in a belly of ur flat bar
We're do I find a shop like this? San Antonio Tx here
Install hangers level, plumb, flat, and square. Lesson over. Skills and ability is up to you.
I was taught not to weld the spring hangers all the way around. Across the frame rail and about 1/4" around the corner.
Why?
@@simperous4308 heat stress could weaken hanger but i weld around them myself, cheaper metal now than old days
That was an excellent job, can you tell me the specs of that welder, the spark sounds so crispy and nice!!!
Miller Multimatic 255 run off 220 single phase electricity.
Smooth with that torch! I've got to install some new hangers on an old camper trailer I tore down. probably use this method. would you recommend putting axels dead center of the frame? 20’. right now, there to far back, making it really Toung heavy.
The idea is to have 10% tongue weight, so if the trailer weights 5000lbs, then you should have 500lbs tongue weight.
you want a minimum of about 50-75lbs tongue weight on a trailer that is empty.
You can use this technique, or you can also weld all the hangers to a 2" x 1/4" flat bar (around 62" long or however long you need to mount all 3 hangers to it) that way you can F-clamp the flat bar to the frame rail, bolt your suspension and axles and tires and everything together...and put the weight down on the trailer and move it back and forth till the tongue weight is all set to the correct weights you want.
The final option is to use the 60% rule.
figure out the length of the trailer and put the center hanger back 60% of the way down the trailer. so if it is 140" long, then mount the hanger 84" back from the front.
that calculation is...
trailer length x 0.60 = x
or
140 x 0.60 = 84"
So there is a lot of different options, however I would not put the hanger in the middle of the trailer unless you have a 50-75 lbs box, toolbox or something mounted to the front of the trailer, because you WANT and NEED tongue weight. 50-75ish lbs is perfect for towing an empty flat bed utility trailer.
Camper trailers have 500-700lbs tongue weight
float trailer can have over 400 lbs tongue weight depending on the dry weight of the trailer. 4000lbs empty trailer, 400lbs tongue weight.
@@simcoespring I really appreciate the detailed response! I'll probably do the 60/40 rule. the trailer turned out to be a 6' by 20'. the tongue is probably another 3/4'. so, I was thinking about placing my first axel at about 12 feet from the front, hoping to get about the 60/40 I mentioned. I'm going to take everything you've said into consideration. not real equipped to do this kind of job but I'll make it work somehow. but Ya man I greatly appreciate the response!!!
@@simcoespring when you say the 60% rule, you mean the total length of the trailer or just the bed? As in, the bed is 6x20. Total trailer 23/24’.
Why not weld the flat bar to the top of hanger then weld flat bar to chassis,I found that hanger rip the main steel tube at the weld in old chassis.
How tight should the equalizer be ? How much side to side play ? I just put new ones on but I have some side to side play
Most have 1/16 to 1/8" if it is too tight then it cant move
@@simcoespring ok because mine came with castle nut but if I tighten it up to that amount of play the hole is to far out for the cotter pin to hold it . So I put a lock nut on it
We're do I find a place like this in San Antonio Rx?
Honest Question
How come, they aren’t stick welded (7018) instead of mig?
considering there’s no solid wire that’s designed for seismic activity.
all my welds are earthquake proof.
I bought a 2014 Mirage 6x10. There isn’t a square piece on it! I needed to weld new spring hangers on it and couldn’t get a matching measurement from side to side or front to back, no matter where I pulled from. I would not buy a Mirage trailer ever again.
that sounds horrible. There is a chart www.cerka.ca/suspension/double-eye-springs
It will show you which measurements to set your hangers at. I find it super helpful.
(that is if you decide to put new hangers on your trailer)
Nice work, I bought some hangers but they are 2" wide on the inside which leaves a 1/4" of play. Is this too much play? My old hangers are 1.875" wide on the inside.
Some times when they manufacture bends them, they are a little oversized, however usually not that much. You can get 1 3/4" wide and 2" wide, so maybe you just ended up with the wrong bracket. measure closer to the top to make sure that it isn't just a little bit opened up a the bottom...if not, looks like you got the wrong ones.
Nice tip!
Glad you liked it!
just bolt spring hangers and equalizer together. then measure diagnol to get it square..
I just mark em cut em off magnet the new ones to the frame adjust as needed tack then weld em up. It's faster. Time is money. 😉
how do you get them parallel to each other so everything bolts in perfectly. what magnets do you use that holds a hanger like this up. how do you set the alignment on all 6 hangers at the same time with just a magnet.
Thankyou
awesome
How do you true the axle to the ball hitch?
Where is the placement of a single axle?
How many inches behind trailer center is the axle placement??
This almost requires its own video
Basically what we do is we run a tape measure from a 3 ball hitch and run it down the length of the trailer to each hanger. that will give you a reference point. Most of the time we normally just reference the old hangers, or at least find a common reference place on the trailer. It can be challenging.
Where is the placement of a single axle? same place you mount a tandem axle. We always find a center point where the axle(s) are going to mount.
Where do you find the mounting point? we normally go with the 60% rule. measure your box and put the axles 60% back. if you have a tail gate that is heavy, go 70% back. If your trailer is mostly complete, then you can mount the hangers and the suspension and the tries and everything to a bar like in this video: ruclips.net/video/LG0VeiKBakM/видео.html
and you can roll the suspension forwards and backwards and get the tongue weight to about 50-400 lbs depending on the trailer size.
Tongue weights should be around:
50lbs for a small single axle utility trailer
100lbs for a small tandem utility trailer
250lbs for an enclosed tandem axle utility trailer
400lbs or more for a massive dump trailer or flat deck trailer you would pull behind a F350 or F550 or something big like that.
loaded trailers should have around 10% of the weight of the trailer in tongue weight, so if your trailer weighs 4000lbs empty, it should have 400LBs tongue weight when it is empty.
If it is 9000lbs then it should have 900lbs tongue weight.
5th wheel trailers can have as much as 20% tongue weight. So a trailer that is 9000lbs can have as much as 1800 lbs tongue weight.
Trailers with no tongue weight, negative tongue weight or too much tongue weight can cause you to lose control of your vehicle.
This is a very complex and Nuanced topic and I would highly recommend doing some more research...these are rough measurements and just to give you some idea of what to do. do more research yourself before you commit to welding your hangers on.
Thanks man.
The 60% rule was what I wanted to hear.
And exactly the same length from the first spring hanger to center of the tow Ball. And exactly the same length for the other side .
How much do u charge for a job like that??
I charge a minimum for 4 hours labor, 1 hour each side to cut and grind, 1 hour each side to prep and weld. + parts + whatever else we are fixing.