Domestic abuse: not a gender issue | Andrew Pain | TEDxLeamingtonSpa
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- Опубликовано: 27 янв 2020
- Society generally assumes that women and children will be the victims in cases of domestic abuse/domestic violence and that men are the perpetrators. In his talk, Andrew describes the wider struggle faced by male survivors of domestic abuse and shares his own experiences of the abuse he suffered during his first marriage: why he stayed, how he rebuilt and how he forgave. Andrew is a speaker, productivity coach, domestic abuse campaigner and happily married dad to 5 children. He serves people at all levels of society, from ex-offenders, and the long term unemployed, to sixth form college students, business leaders and entrepreneurs, helping them to get more done, but without getting busier or burnt out, so they achieve exactly what they want, but without sacrificing their most precious things. Andrew is a blogger and frequent contributor to The Good Men Project and Psych Reg, writing about his experiences of domestic abuse, parental alienation and the family courts, In his spare time, he runs a support group (Menspace) for men experiencing domestic abuse. This talk was given at a TEDx event using the TED conference format but independently organized by a local community. Learn more at www.ted.com/tedx
"domestic abuse is a human issue" - this is such an honest and powerful TED. Thank you Andrew Pain for giving such a clear explanation of how forgiveness can be a decision, practiced over time until it is achieved and embraced, for the simple reason that it makes you see more clearly and feel a whole lot better.
Thanks for your kind comments Marina. Really appreciate it
Of the nine significant others I had in my life between the ages of 20 and 50 three were physically violent and two were psychologically abusive.
That's a very high percentage of abusive women.
if the full scale of female perpetrated abusive behaviour was reported and documented I think the figures would be quite staggering and sobering.
My brother dealt with an abusive partner for 8 years, it took us so long to get him out. He was fortunate enough to have a support network that didn't waiver, so many people don't - and it's especially hard for men to come to terms with the fact they're being abused when they don't have loved ones around them reminding them that they don't have to put up with such behaviour. It's a relief to finally see this conversation being had. A shift is needed.
Thanks Janet - am so glad to read your brother is out of it now. And in terms of that loving family support network you mention, without it, even if you do find you can somehow break free, repairing and moving forward is so much more difficult in every sense (financial & emotional). The conversation is being had at least which is a start, but we have a long way to go! Thanks for sharing.
thanks for sharing Janet, helped me.
My brother did not make it out. After 25 years of it, he was dead.
For having seen it from up close , what do you think is preventing it, specifically ? What are the specific hurdles men face in this situation ? Themselves ? The police ? The society ? The legal system ?
@@swbuza I’m sorry for your loss. 😢
It's about time men started to raises awareness. I've been running men's groups for 10 years now and that's been my biggest issue - no one wants to talk about it. This is really important and I'll be sharing. Thanks Andrew
Thanks for sharing something of your experience working with men Roberta - I really appreciate it. I co-lead a project supporting male survivors of domestic abuse and getting men to open up and talk is an ongoing challenge. Hopefully, with more of us men speaking out and with mental health generally getting a good profile at the moment in the press and on social media, the tide will turn!
Domestic abuse is NOT not a gender issue - ABSOLUTELY!! Andrew, your words are terrifyingly real for too many MEN.
sadly so - it's an issue for men and women. The quicker we can accept that is the case, that domestic abuse has many faces and open our minds to the reality of abuse in the LGBT community, teenager on parent abuse, men as victims and of course, women as victims, the quicker it becomes safe to speak out and seek help whoever you are, safe in the knowledge that you're likely to be taken seriously (whoever you are).
@@andrewpain_speaker Just wondering why so many men (and women) who have been victims of DA get a lot of disrespect. I have seen a lot of unfair criticism of you and others on twitter when you speak about your experiences. I'm astounded that some people thinks it's ok to treat abuse victims this way.
@@thomsonfly645k - there is sadly a lot of gender tension around. Women who hate men and for example, revel in the fact that coronavirus is killing men in greater numbers than women (even though such women will have their own sons) and men who hate women, convinced that women now own the world and are out to get men. When you start talking about domestic abuse within that world of gender tension, it's inevitably going to create a backlash. We have to work to diffuse the tension and create gender unity, calling out the misogynists and extreme feminists, supporting all victims of abuse - and learning to celebrate each others differences and skills.
@@andrewpain_speaker It does sound like that. I'm just surprised that there seem to be so many men and women who will dismiss each others experiences of DV. You would think this is one of the areas where they could find common ground.
If violence is the only relevant feature we wouldn't distinguish based on the relational aspect - domestic/family, stranger, workplace etc. There'd be differing motivating factors but also overlap. News may be unbalanced, in its choosing to report what seems particularly deplorable perhaps yet illustrating the supposedly more serious, if only reflected by the clinical look at the homicide rate: man on woman violence. Comparing 2020's compiled news reports of intimate partner deaths of men and women, the female rate is twice that of the men. I don't know how this is affected when including non publicized cases. Noticed somewhere a figure of one a week of women killed by domestic partners this year I believe. The media plays a pivotal role in this, creating a perception that ranks other types of dv as secondary. I don't mind if they're reported separately, to give each their air time. To have readers think about the nuanced causal factors.
Thank goodness someone has the guts to say it like it is! I know far too many men who put up with emotionally and physically abusive women in fear of not being taken seriously. I wish people knew how predominate this actually is!
Thanks Natascha, really appreciate your encouragement. I do think things are changing slowly and the new focus on mental health in general, is growing and encouraging men to speak out. Hopefully too, we can give our young boys a hug when they've hurt themselves, rather than telling them to be brave: the more that men/boys get used to talking, the more I think you'll see men speaking out, because they'll used to talking about stuff, even the stuff they feel embarrassed about. My heart goes out to all survivors of DA/DV: men, women, kids, teenagers - we need a more rounded discussion about DA/DV in my opinion, so everyone is more aware of the various faces of DA/DV.
"Shame is an effective silencer - abuse is a human issue not a gender issue" such powerful statements. Thank you for speaking out and sharing your story and raising awareness of this important issue, abuse can happen to anyone. Shame and silence will allow it to continue.
very true!
This made me watch twice! Trying to grasp it.
@@eleanorrigbywhatdoesitmean thanks Eleanor - really glad it resonated with you - thanks for watching twice! ::)
I’ve been getting physically abused for the past 4 years by my now ex girlfriend. It’s definitely an issue that needs to be talked about and more men shouldn’t feel ashamed about coming forward to talk about it.
really sorry to hear you're going through it and thanks for sharing: yes, we do need to talk about domestic abuse and it's impact on men ...and how we can better support each other - wishing you a blessed 2022
This takes real courage. We are too familiar with your experience and ours ended badly, despite all efforts to support the kids from his first marriage emotionally and financially. No invitations to the kids’ weddings, and we have never seen the grandchildren. But we still love them.
that is so so tough. Really sorry to hear that - I hope that one day, very soon, that changes.
I'm relieved to see this conversation being had, it is one that has been left in the dark for a very long time. Thank you Andrew, this would have been tough but I know so many men would be grateful!
thanks Jacey - really appreciate it. My hope is that by more men speaking out, we encourage a culture where it's ok as a man to be vulnerable, and we remove any sense of shame or sentiment that only wimpy me get abused.
Domestic violence isn’t just between a romantic relationship either. It also can be grown children to parents, between Siblings, cousins, and other family members as well.
100% Vanessa - we need a broader narrative on domestic abuse, from the media to the way we educate our young people about domestic abuse
Theresa Knoor🚩 Sabrina Kouider & Ouissem Medouni🚩
Thank you for speaking out.
thanks for saying - really appreciate it
it's so refreshing and much needed to see
Yeah brother agree!
Agree, we men can't even say stuff like this without being blamed for all the issues.
well said Andrew!
More people need to hear this . I am a survivor of DV. I am also an advocate. I subscribed to your channel. Thanks for making people aware.
Thanks Shyheda, really sorry to hear you've been through it ... but total respect to you for coming out the other side and helping those struggling with abuse.
Definitely not a gender issue... My son was abused by his wife for 6 years. It's really good to see someone speaking about this.
Thanks for sharing Bev, really hope your son is in a better place now. Since the talk came out, I have been contacted on Twitter & Linkedin by many, many women, saying it happened to their son/uncle/partner/brother/friend, that he didn't report it at the time but was left in a bad way. I'm not sure what I expected when this talk went live, but I didn't expect that particularly.
same with my son.
My wife was a major in the US Army. Used to fly into rages, screaming at me and threatening to kill herself. Eventually got medically discharged from the military for flying into rages at work and threatening to kill herself. She had no intention of ever killing herself. That was just the game she played. She used to pull knives on me.
really hope you're well clear of it now. Your situation is all too common. Thanks for sharing.
The important matter is that you either distanced yourself, or got some help for her, or both. People in a toxic relationship are not able to change things from inside.
WTF!!!! Knives???
ex wife, you mean? :(
man thats cruel!
Thank you so much for speaking out. It got me so releaved that I wasn't mad. I have been in the exact same circumstances with two daugthers. She also brought up the screens in court to claim I was the abuser. Unbelievable.
Thanks for sharing Mathieu - sorry to hear of your experiences - really hope you are in a better place now. One of many issues in our family court system is that there is no penalty for wilfully misleading the courts, so men and women wreak havoc with false allegations.
I'm so sorry Friend, I hope you are okay.
Did you get charged? I think I know a guy who got accused and charged but she seems narcissistic by the way she looks so primp and is very materialistic
My boyfriend survived his abuse and I survived mine.
good for you - really hope you've found happiness together and have a blessed year ahead!
bless you both I understand.
wow, at least it brought you together!
@@rickyohe True
A mate shared this with me, never thought i'd see the day this conversation was finally being had. Funnily enough he shared this on International Men's Day... I gotta say, it was the first time this year I actually saw men being honest about what they've endured. Awesome talk Andrew, thank you.
Thanks Alex - the indicators show that whilst 1/3 of victims of DA/DV are men, its hugely under-reported. Hopefully by starting the conversation, it will encourage more men to speak out so we can truly understand the scale of the problem.
it's a real relief this conversation is finally happening.
I know this is hard for a lot of people to talk about it, but it's talks like this, men like this, who help us better understand and get rid of the stigma. very grateful for this man, keep at it!
Thanks George - really appreciate your encouragement. - I do think more men are speaking out about it and of course, the growing awareness around men's mental health in general and needing to talk is seriously helpful. I'm involved with a few groups and it's great to see them growing at grassroots level.
So glad you found the courage to walk away and THANK YOU for speaking up and reaching those who are still trapped in abusive relationships. This talk is going to help so many people. You're doing vital work :)
thanks so much Richard - really appreciate you saying so.
Thank you for sharing your story! Not only do men find it difficult to speak up, they are more often than not discounted and discredited. In such domestic abuse cases in India, men are often accused of demanding dowry. Hoping the world becomes equal for all - in all aspects.
agreed - thanks so much for sharing!
I will remember this when I leave my toxic environment made by my abusive mother and sister. They will try to use double standards to keep me in.
Mine was not physical violence, mine was all a psychological campaign to destroy me
a good friend of mine was brought to the brink of suicide owing to the sheer campaign of emotional abuse he was subjected to. I think often in society, we forget just how damaging psychological abuse is
@@andrewpain_speaker The relationship was going to kill me. It has taken me more than a year and a half afterwards to come to terms with how bad it was. The process of dealing with the damage is not an easy one
The way society deals with abuse as a whole is outrageous. We need more funding for a plethora of resources so that cycle of abuse can finally end. Raw talk Andrew, thank you.
Thanks Damian, yes 100%. We need a much bigger funding pot given the scale of the problem of DA/DV, but that funding pot needs to be shared across the various faces/segments of DA/DV.
Very frightening how the dynamics between two people can set off a continuous fire of chaos.
I think so - in abusive relationships, there are various dynamics in play, but I might want to alter your comment out of respect to the men, women and children suffering in abusive relationships and say: "it's frightening just how destructive abusive people can be - but there is always light at the end of the tunnel for victims. The fire of chaos is temporary, sometimes long lasting, but it doesn't have to be continuous and it doesn't have to last forever".
I wonder how many men have endured violence at the hands of a woman because they were always told, *“there’s never an excuse for hitting a woman.”* In an effort to curb violence against women (a good cause) our society perpetuated this lie. I’ve seen interviews with men who nearly died from the injuries their wives/girlfriends inflicted upon them & when asked, “Did you try to fight back?” they’d respond, “No, I couldn’t. You can’t hit a woman.” It’s infuriating. My mother (who’s first husband abused her) taught me from a young age to be a gentleman, but that if a girl ever attacked me I was to fight back & defend myself. As a kid I was overweight & therefore bullied often. One day a girl started bullying me. I tried ignoring her & she hit me hard multiple times so I smacked her in the face (in self defense). When my teacher found out, I was the one who was punished & she got off scot-free. Thankfully, my mom called up my teacher and told her I had every right to defend myself. If you’re trying to defend yourself or someone who’s helpless (a child, elder, handicapped person, an animal etc.) against a woman’s violence you have *every right to strike her back.* Your genitals don’t give you a free pass to be violent and there’s nothing wrong with defending yourself.
This is also a major problem in the U.S.. But, Law enforcement in the U.S. still thinks men are perps.
Yes you're right, this is a big issue.
The truth! Abuse is a issue almost everywhere. There is a cycle abuse that exists and these are the sorts of conversations that must be had to help our society heal. Kudos to this man! Amazing!
Thanks Aly - I appreciate your encouragement and yes, abusive relationships are everywhere: at work, in our communities, at home. By getting rid of gender and seeing it as a human issue, we stand a better chance of equipping our boys and girls to develop strategies to spot it early and take appropriate action
That's it Aly!
Your description of the churning stomach brought back all the memories of my abusive ex.
That was a horrible chapter of my life.
Powerful and insightful Andrew. Thank you for having the courage to speak up and share your story. It is one the people need to hear. The only way to deal with issues like this is to bring them to the light! Keep up the good work you are doing!
Thanks - really appreciate your encouragement
This is brilliant! Resonates a lot with me at the moment.
I feel men have a higher resilience for accepting domestic abuse or tend not to seek help so it goes under reported.
I have gone through a lot of the same things even with the barrier in court. No cross examination though as my ex received legal aid for false allegations of domestic abuse when it was actually me who suffered. It’s like a bad dream when you are going through it.
So pleased things worked out for you in the end!
Thanks!
hey thanks for reaching out John and for the compliment. I'm sorry to hear you've been through a similar thing and hope that things have worked out for you too.
John Hodges
What exactly happened?
We don't have more resilience, lets be honest, we are scared to admit a woman pushes us around.
@@shystrshystr - I do think for many that there is a shame factor - a sense of not being a proper man if you're being knocked about by your female partner and in the UK, we joke about who wears the trousers, man-flu, manning up, being a big girl's blouse but this is not helpful overall in helping men step forward and be honest about what is happening in their relationships. I do think that with increasing mental health awareness, things are slowly changing in some countries like the UK.
@@andrewpain_speaker You're spot on there, the conversation is finally being had and awareness.
Hi Andrew, this is one of the most honest ted talks I've seen. Thank you for sharing and helping others with your story.
thanks for the compliment - really appreciate it - glad it resonated with you
amazingly helpful
it's really a relief to see
Man, it requires huge balls to take a stance for men's rights. I feel nothing but respect for this man.
We need to hear this message. Although I know many good women who have been abused, I also know several men who have suffered terribly at the hands of unstable and often ruthless women. Bad behaviour is not restricted to one gender. That's a simplistic approach and guaranteed to perpetuate the pain of men who are suffering just as you did.
100% Leonie - DA/DV is far more complex than the narrative we generally here. There are many different faces to DA/DV - thanks for sharing your insight
Oh, I've seen and heard a lot of this. How is it going to help men if domestic abuse is only seen as a women's issue? If it's only seen as a violence issue? Men, speak out. It's not just physical violence but those constant piranha voices snapping away at self esteem, self worth, your soul. Men, speak out.
Thanks Laurie - you're spot on. For men and women, the gaslighting, coercive control and emotional manipulation is as damaging as the violence. It is indeed, a very human issue.
@@andrewpain_speaker Yeah, I've been there.
Emotional manipulation far worse than when she physical hurt me @@andrewpain_speaker
I can identify with everything you have said my abuser abused me some 20 years ago and continues do so through the internet through pod casts she uses various platforms publicly to character assassinate me without mentioning my name as the abuser...I have stayed silent for 20 years.I am so grateful to watch this ted talk.I am lost as to what to do next.I am open to any advice
So sorry to hear about that Johnathan. When life is tough/unjust, the best tonic I know of, is to consistently help other people, find the things you can feel grateful for and avoid bitterness.
Fantastic video. Survivor's of domestic abuse have loads in common. People who want to divide survivors maybe don't want survivors to actually see what's going on or accept they protect themselves.
This is a very amazing story about family abuse we don't normally hear about. Brave story Andrew.
thanks Paul - I appreciate your encouragement. It's sadly, extremely common, but hopefully with more people speaking out, we can understand it more and truly get to the bottom of how to tackle it, whilst supporting those going through it. How to support survivors (men and women)? how to rehabilitate perpetrators (men and women?) We can only really understand how to address these questions when we hear more of the stories from those who have experienced it.
Had to live through similar things with my ex-girlfriend. Luckily I have very supportive friends who helped me and opened my eyes.
Good one, Andrew, if a little painful to hear sometimes. More and more men are speaking up and it all helps to make the political position (man=bad, woman=good) look even less tenable than it ever did.
thanks Douglas - I really hope it's an encouragement to men and women struggling with abuse, to come forward with their stories, so we can learn from them and build a truly accurate picture of domestic abuse in all its forms.
Thanks for the talk Andrew! I had 3 marriage counsellors before my nightmare started. Then the Ex-partee order came and as I seen 22 Judges I could tell after hearing them that they had it in for me. All the orders were against me and cost awarded against me. I tried to fight for my children but no avail. Not seen them in 15 years and word on the street is they have mental issues and depression and I'm unable to assist them as the Police are threatening me. The Courts are to be thanked as they would put a family under and out on the streets.
Brilliant information Andrew. There is a lot of ignorance with regard to "narcissistic abuse", that is for sure.... and that is what you were dealing with in your home. My concern is that those on the front-line of abuse are not mentioning narcissistic personality disorder as being a big factor of domestic abuse... that is what I am challenging. I believe understanding the behaviours and patterns of narcissistic abuse (Psychopathy) would help the legal system and Judges to fully understand the dynamics of this abuse that you speak about in your TEDx Talk...... because there are recognisable patterns to these relationships, and we all need to know them.
spot on - yes, I've recently learned a lot about narcissistic tendencies/personalities and frankly, we need to be educating our young people as part of our efforts to equip them to spot the signs early. Thanks so much for your insight
Were these people diagnosed? It's just plain abuse
Society needs to get over this mentality of always women being the victim, and men always being the monstrous perpetrators.
Domestic abuse happens in both genders. Happened to my brother!
Thanks for sharing Alanna - really hope your brother is in a good place today
So properly put. Thank you.
thanks - really appreciate your positive feedback!
The abuse that riddles this planet seems to never end. We abuse each other, we abuse animals, we abuse our ecosystem. Where is the respect for one another? Where is the need to understand and find common ground? We as human's have lost the ability to really care for each other. I know for a fact DV has been an issue between different couples, families - regardless of gender, race or socioeconomic background. We have a responsibility moving forward and this man is DOING it. We have to be so real, so honest, and so open.
And Andrew is doing it. I am grateful for him
Thanks Magnus - I totally agree with you. We have to be real, honest, and truly accept that what we might have believed to be true yesterday (eg - men don't really suffer from DA/DV) isn't actually true today (nor was it true yesterday - it's just that we have more data now) and that increasing, the data is highlighting the need for a change of narrative and perspective regarding DA/DV,. The problem, is that the consequences of change for some, will mean loss, acceptance and letting go of stuff and that's seriously tough for many/most people!
@@gizmeaux - thanks Giz, really appreciate your encouragement - I'm grateful for you contributing on this thread! :)
We haven't lost it. We've never had it.
Brilliant talk!
I wish I had seen it seven years ago and hope it helps people who are now enduring what I was then . . .
thanks for saying. Me too. I want to reach out to men who are struggling, so they know they're not alone and so they recognise it for what it is.
@@andrewpain_speaker I haven't seen my son in seven years, she gleefully told me "he doesn't want a relationship with you"
@@patricia-fz8et so sorry to hear that - he does, but is presumably trying to please her and will do what he has to, to keep the peace. Really hope the situation turns around for you. I cut my family completely off for 6 months with zero contact because my ex-wife convinced me that I was a little boy when they were around and we would be a happier couple if I was more of a man. I sort of got back in contact with them whilst keeping them at arms length. It gutted me to do it: I kinda knew it was twisted and wrong but was fighting to save my marriage, believing that real men fight for their marriages and kids!
I think you are brilliant for speaking out! I work for a local constabulary and often remind people that domestic abuse is not just a female issue! Thank you!
Thanks Faye - I salute you for the work you're doing. Really appreciate your encouragement
I would say that we DO see our abusers as broken, mentally ill people we need to stand by, with complete loyalty.
That's why so many of us stay for so long.
We already know that: he already knew that. And that's one of the reasons he stayed for so long.
The anger and bitterness are necessary for self preservation, to keep ourselves safe, to stop us from going back.
Very moving, most definitely a human problem causing suffering to extend to the whole family! Including children and pets! Well done for finding the courage to speak out, here’s hoping you inspire others to do the same!
Hey Wendy, thanks so much for your encouragement and for anyone reading this comment, Wendy herself has delivered a cracking talk on domestic abuse, drawing on the angle of pets, an often overlooked angle!
So true Andrew- and thank you for this. My son has been totally alienated from his family since 2017 and I know he is facing domestic abuse. There are many similarities with your story but I don’t know how to help him. Following his marriage rapidly dropped contact with his friends, cousins as well as us his parents and his sister. He was loving caring and intelligent young man who provides well for his family. They have two beautiful children together, who we weren’t told about. This is a woman who had lied about her parents abusing her, her illnesses etc etc to get him in the first place. She shouted me out of her house when I made my only effort to visit my son to see grandchildren; and he just stood there helplessly telling me to go. I worry about my son and grandchildren but don’t know what to do. It would be great if you or anyone can give any advice
You Sir are a real man. Thank you for your talk which I have shared with my friends today. I identify with the shock of being hit by the woman I love. The disbelief, the shame, the isolation from my friends and family and being manipulated like a puppet to believe I was contributing to her pain by trying to leave. I have recently walked away after she bit me on my ear, the fourth attack. My confidence was hit, I was isolated from my friends. I am sad that I was unable to walk away the first time this happened, I loved her more than I loved myself. Domestic violence is abhorrent and is caused by humans not specific genders. I salute you for bringing this to the forefront. I couldn't believe she bit me when I was hugging her. I still don't understand why and my searches on the Internet bring up stories of men (only) as the abusers. Let's make this representative and help those men who suffer in silence realise that they are not alone. Thank you for your courage.
Hi Micky - total respect to you for having the strength to walk away and also share your experiences. I've been astounded by the sheer number of women contacting me since my TEDx talk went live, saying it happened to their son/brother/husband, that he didn't report it at the time, but was left in a really bad way. You are definitely not alone - and increasingly, men are speaking out. I wish you the best moving forward: you have made a brave yet necessary decision - the journey might not be straight forward as you repair but good times lie ahead my friend!
All violence is abhorrent! Thank you for sharing your experience with us all.
Thanks Arna - you're welcome!
I'm sorry you had to go through that! The way you are dealing with it is admirable, though.
Thanks for the encouragement, I've been helped by some wonderful men and women: it also helps me to be able to speak freely about it!
Well Done Andrew. Such a hidden part of our society. The shame and confusion that allows men to live in these untenable situations is heartbreaking. Thank you for sharing and speaking out - Mikadie Joyce-Bates
you're welcome Mikadie - really honoured it resonated with you - thanks for the encouragement
Fantastic talk Andrew highlighting the issues of Domestic Abuse. All abuse is not acceptable and must not be tolerated.
Thanks Nick - really appreciate your comment - I have so much respect for the work you are doing
Great Ted talk! Thanks for having the courage to speak out and spread awareness! 👏
thanks - really appreciate your encouragement!
and for the men who don't get knocked about, but have to deal with the relentless put downs, being chased around the house while they are yelled at, threatened, told they are worth nothing - THAT IS ALSO ABUSE. Any person who blames you for their temper, threatens you, puts you down is an abuser.
100%! domestic abuse is not just about physical abuse. For men and women who suffer, it includes coercion, intimidation, control, humiliation and gaslighting.
This is such a powerful talk. Thank you Andrew. I am supporting a father and a victim of the most harrowing campaign of domestic abuse by his ex-partner; abuse which included inventing allegations of domestic abuse against him that the family courts willingly indulged without challenge. I was horrified at the limited understanding of domestic abuse done unto men in this setting. I will share your video in the hope it will grow awareness that domestic abuse is not a gender issue.
Thanks for sharing Kate - I'm so sorry to hear about what your partner is experiencing. It's so horribly common. I think in the family courts, it's a lottery. You never know what you will get and so much (in the UK at least) is dependent on the viewpoint of the CAFCASS officer and/or Judge. I think there is a very poor understanding of DA/DV and of parental alienation in the family courts, and when there is no deterrent to stop people willfully misleading the courts, the judgements made are often wrong and arbitrary and do not support the best interests of the child.
@@andrewpain_speaker - you sum up the lottery of the family court system beautifully. Sadly in the case I supported CAFCASS completely understood what was happening and reported it as such. However,. NYAS, to whom the case was escalated, were shockingly negligent in their effort, integrity and insight. I would advise fathers never to engage NYAS based on my experience. All that is left in this case to salvage something positive is to commit to building knowledge in the judicial world of the realities of domestic abuse done unto men and how the family courts are s readily manipulated in a woman's campaign of abuse against the father.
@@katenoakes8929 thanks for sharing and so sorry to hear what you have been through. Interesting though - of the two epic family court battles I was involved with, the second one which had become farcical due to cafcass incompetence was then handed to NYAS and common sense quickly prevailed. I found the NYAS case worker to be balanced and certainly up to speed with DA/DV and the complexities it presents. Frankly, once she was on the case, the pantomime came to an end and sensible decisions were then made in the court room. It goes to show - the courts are a lottery - as are the organisations which serve them ... there has to be a better way.
I can say, from first-hand experience, that male victim domestic abuse is ignored here in the UK.
When I reached out and tried to ask for help, I was ignored and belittled by various public services and institutions, and that included trying to share recorded evidence - authorities turned a blind eye and refused to view/listen to this because they did not want to deal with the difficult situation of holding a female to account. They do not have the skills and professional exprerience to deal with this issue because we are in an infancy stage even identifying this, let alone taking things further.
I'm really sorry to hear what you've been through, and the worrying thing is, that we are so far ahead of other countries in dealing with this! There are reasons for hope with increasing awareness about male victims of DA/DV, but what the larger women's 'charitable' organisations (who also lobby) want to shut down, is a debate about female perpetrated violence because it goes against the narrative they want, and when certain CEOs of certain women's organisations in the UK are earning 200K per annum, you can see why they want to protect the narrative which drives their funding streams. I do think there is a growing army of women who's sons, partners, brothers, friends have been abused and who are speaking out. We need to reach out to them and work with them to make a louder noise - we need more men to share their stories, even if it is just within their own family/friendship circles.
@@andrewpain_speaker Agreed. There needs to be more of a conversation.
I have shared in my circles but this has to be balanced, e.g. from a sharing perspective and not a 'victims' perspective. And I have found some people find this topic uncomfortable and confusing.
Where else would you recommend sharing our stories apart from our social circles? If it is within the public realm, e.g. social media, this brings a lot of issues with this type of platform. Perhaps we need a platform or organisation to voice on behalf? Similar to how you have used the TED platform?
@@GASHPAN - thanks. I do think that social media is one way to address the narrative. When I see posts on Linkedin (my most active social media platform) which are gendered, and simply anti male, I gently call them out: sometimes it provokes a backlash and I have to be mindful to avoid being dragged into a circular debate going nowhere - often it generates helpful construction. I also try to share posts from other link minded individuals who are well researched, balanced and speak from a place of quite dignity rather than raging anger!
Very powerful Andrew. Really glad you are on the other side now and able to help others. Thank you for sharing.
Thanks Sian - really appreciate your encouragement
This was so insightful to learn about. Thank you and I am sorry you went through what you did. No one deserve that kind of pain and no one should make you feel small or insignificant for anything. I love how you promote and speak up about it and definitely would look into ways as a woman, I can help them too.
Thanks so much for your kind comments - so important that we fight for all victims of abuse, women, children and men.
My son is still suffering the effects of domestic abuse even after he ended the relationship because the last attack she turned it around on him and made false felony charges against him. We are now trying to find an attorney who understands this issue well enough to adequately defend him in court. She may ruin the rest of his life if he can't get good representation. His case is more complicated than many, as I am pretty sure her problems are worse than just mental health problems, she is a psychopath and a master manipulator. Everything she's done to him is cold and calculated and so far has gotten her what she wanted. The legal system played right into her hands, and my son is now without money or a means to earn a living because she made sure that he lost his job and she stole all the money out of his bank account, and destroyed his car. If he goes to prison because he can't retain good counsel he likely won't survive, as he is vulnerable due to the fact that he has a benign brain tumor which causes him to have seizures and this has caused some damage to his brain. He gets exploited in every relationship because he's too trusting, but this one is the worst. Most of the other women he's dated have been emotionally abusive, and some verbally abusive but not anywhere near like this woman who is downright sadistic.
Thank you for sharing awareness on this "not so talked about" subject. I love that you were able to reframe your story to enable you to manage what happened.
Not sure why this has appeared as MuzikMixture as I signed into my own account - Annie
Thanks for your encouragement - the reframing really helped me to think clearly, and not being angry/bitter about what happened.
@@MuzikMixchure no problem - I sometimes comment on people's TEDx talks then realise I've commented from my wife's account! I like MuzikMixchure - it feels like the name of a DJ from Ibiza.
Social communities should have reconsidered the way they broadcasted the abusement topic. In their position, I would have listened to the Andrew's point.
There are too many vested interests in keeping the common narrative about domestic abuse (that its something which men do to women) as it is.
thanks again Andrew. I am very happy that I came across your work. As a psychologist the normative expectation of gender is a wily phenomenon in our social worlds. More internally, personality disordered people continue to manifest some power over others in specific ways, specific institutional spheres. When we struggle, I think we learn how this buffers and hurts our social freedom
hey thanks for your kind words - I'm glad the talk resonated with you
Are you aware of the Manchester conference on domestic abuse as a man's issue? May 2020.
@@douglas7000 yes - thanks. I spoke at it on Parental Alienation!
Hurt People... Hurt People...
@Andrew Pain Thanks for doing this. I know it's been a year, but still relevant.
I've been trying to come up with thoughts to add to the discussion, but can't really find anything that fits in this forum.
It's such a complicated thing, especially if it's gone on for decades; a few sentences don't do it justice.
But I applaud you for having the courage to do this talk. And I also applaud all the others who have had the courage to share even a tiny snapshot of their experience.
As least we know that we're not alone. :-)
Thanks Hassit: yes, it's been a full year since the talk went live, but still alot of work to do, to ensure that the discussion about domestic abuse, at all levels of society, includes men and women as victims, as well as parents abused by children, LGBTQ community and to ensure that stereotypes/assumptions about DA/DV (like the 'overwhelming majority of victims are women' and 'women are only violent in self defense') are completely busted. If we're serious about protecting our sons and daughters, we must take a more rounded and balanced approach towards DA/DV. I echo your sentiments - it's been humbling and inspiring to see so many people sharing about their experiences in the comments for this talk.
Thank you! Thank you for speaking your truth and that of so many others. We need a clearer picture of domestic abuse and we need to diminish stigma along with engrained stereotypical views.
I look forward to hearing more from you!
thanks so much for your encouragement - yes, indeed, we need a clearer and fuller picture. I'm working on a pilot project to support male survivors of domestic abuse, in tandem with a project which supports parents abused by their children. We rarely hear about this side of DA/DV, nor do the media report much on the LGBTQ community - yet these are all common faces of DA/DV which need to be addressed, as are male victims. Thanks again
thanks for your kind reply ... you never get over losing a child, especially this way
An excellent and balanced insight. We MUST remove the gender narrative from domestic abuse. We are all humans and once we create different boxes to put people in to (including gender), we start to lose sight of the whole picture.
spot on - once we start looking at the whole picture of Domestic Abuse (female to male, male to female, teenager to parent and the LGBTQ community) then we can start to properly equip the next generation to spot the signs early.
totally agree - once we remove the gender narrative and accept that men and women abuse, we can make space for female and male victims, and the LGBTQ community and parents being abused by teenagers/children. DA/DV is complex - it requires a multi-faceted response and if we're to equip the next generation to spot the signs early and take action early, we need to move away from a view, that DA/DV is just something men do to women. We need to support all victims (women and men, girls and boys). We need to rehabilitate and re-educate all perpetrators (women and men, girls and boys)
@@andrewpain_speaker Parents abused by children? LOL
@@Sarablueunicorn it's no laughing matter. I'm a trustee for a charity, serving parents abused by children. Parents living in fear, feeling like failed parents/failed people, children as young 6, trying to push mummy in front of a train. It's a rapidly growing problem
Thank you for sharing this, sorry you had to go thru it, but it does happen alot and people just dont talk about it so it's a great thing you did by bringing out which will encourage others to do that as well,
Thanks Irfan - really appreciate you saying: yes, that was part of my motivation for doing the talk, to encourage other men to speak out, if not on a TEDx stage, to at least speak out within their circles of influence.
100% Courage!
Thanks Stephen - really appreciate you saying so - it did take alot of courage to get up on stage and deliver that to be fair. My usual public speaking stuff is humourous and light hearted so to do something which affected me so deeply, was a step out of my comfort zone to be sure - thanks again
@@andrewpain_speaker not sure if you're aware, but the reason why I said courage is because of a book I read by Brene Brown. Her talks are also on Ted. I'd highly recommend them!
@@DrStephenT ok thanks - I'll take a look
I am in the similiar situation right now and I really dont know what to do. I have a lovely daughter whom I love the most in this world. I am a domestic violence abuse victim. We were separated for 2 years due to her constant abuse and causing chaos at home then we got back together again on July 2021when I went to Poland to see my child. She told me she was sorry and that she would not repeat anything and she wanted to get back to me because it is good for our child. I shouldn't have trusted her then but I wanted to be with my child and did not want her to grow without her father. She agreed to come to Turkey and live with me here and we moved in on October 2021. During the last 3 months she was living with me she abused me almost everyday mentaly she did not even hesitate to do it near My daughter who is just 4 years old and she attacked me physically 2 times. I still have bruises on my body. I used to leave home most of the time not to let my child to witness the conflicts. Last week she left home and took away with herself my daughter too to Poland. she is a Polish citizen. She also spread false informations around as if I did any harm to her. It seems like she complained to the Polish authorities to ban my entry to Poland to stop me from seeing my daughter. for the moment I only see my daughter on the phone through her grandmother. I love my daughter more than anything in this world and she loves me too. I do not feel that she is safe with her mother.
so sorry to hear this Hadi - your story is sadly not uncommon. All I can say is you are not alone - there are people who will support you, listen to you, connect with you.
@@andrewpain_speaker thank you so much Andrew. I just wish that she would not harm my daughter.
Thanks for sharing Andrew. All abuse needs to be tackled but it also needs to be reported properly. If we ignore any form of abuse the people suffering it will feel that no one cares. If any man out there is suffering abuse remember you are not to blame. Speak out and seek help straight away. There is always light at the end of the tunnel.
Thanks. Yes, I fully agree. We need to be mindful of all forms of abuse if we're serious about tackling it.
Thanks for sharing such an insight Andrew. I can't wait for more of such inspiring messages from you.
Kudos
Thanks for the encouragement - I'm glad it resonated with you!
Domestic abuse is a human issue indeed. Such a vulnerable and powerful talk about a topic so often overlooked which in turn causes men suffering to feel more shame. Chock-a-block full of insight as well as gentle heartfelt encouragement to those who find themselves in a similar situation to not feel alone and to reach out. With gratitude Andrew for finding it in your heart to forgive her and I'm so happy you found what you deserve. Thank you as well for giving back to men who find themselves in your old shoes. Soldier on mate. I shall be sharing this.
thanks so much for your encouragement Kerry - it's hugely appreciated. I'm glad you found value in the talk!
So many things that you have said Andrew, I can really relate to. This video has helped me so much. Thank you for speaking up. It means so much. 👏👏👏👍
Thanks for your encouragement - really glad it resonated with you and if you're stuck in it, I wish you the very very best in moving forward
I went through this with my ex. Physical and psychological abuse… I managed to escape, but just barely.
so sorry to hear you've been through it - glad to hear you're out of it - wishing you well for the year ahead
Andrew reached out to me on LinkedIn and invited me to hear his story. I'm so happy and honored that HE did reach out to me. "Thank You, Andrew!" And now, I invite YOU to hear his story! Donate 12 minutes and 35 seconds from your life today in support of the often unknown and misunderstood struggle faced by male survivors of domestic abuse.
Hey thanks Robert - great to connect on Linkedin - lets keep in touch
well thanks to the last year there is more funding going towards mental health but still not enough. grateful for men like this who are speaking out.
Thanks. Really appreciate your encouragement. Yes, I do think that the spotlight on men's mental health, de-stigmatising mental health issues, more men being vulnerable about their challenge etc is helping men to speak out about domestic abuse. It's not about taking the spotlight away from female survivors, its about helping to create a balanced conversation about DA/DV, so we have a truly accurate picture of what is happening in our homes.
@@andrewpain_speaker the truth bro, then we can start figuring out how end the cycle
ty for your story andrew
You're welcome John - really glad you found value in it
Treating domestic violence as a gendered issue is wrong. Victims are victims, and they all deserve an equal amount of attention.
We need more adverts which portray men as victims. I think one of the reasons why many men don't come forward is because propaganda only portrays men as perpotrators.
spot on Jack - there are a few police forces in the UK now whose domestic abuse awareness campaigns include images of female and male victims - this needs to become the norm. The media are also guilty of perpetuating the myth that the 'overwhelming majority' of victims are women, where in act, according to the latest data available, the reality is that the greater proportion of victims are women, but certainly not the 'overwhelming majority'.
@@andrewpain_speaker I don't think Police Scotland are one of those forces unfortunately. Also depends on what they mean by "overwhelming majority" I don't think it should matter who the majority of victims are. Each case should be taken seriously and investigated.
Thanks for sharing your story
Omg, not 2 minutes in and it was like everything came back to me. The nervous gut wrenching feeling in my stomach.
sorry to hear you've been through it - really hope you're in a better place now.
Thanks Andrew - takes time for police to arrest the right person when they arrive at the 'scene' of domestic abuse incidents
yes - I had a policeman come up to me after I did my talk at the event - he said how hard it was sometimes to know who to believe when arriving at domestic incidents, but that when it wasn't clear, there was an assumption it was the man who was the perpetrator.
@@andrewpain_speaker Yep.. seems to have been other gentlemen's experience ,too; when it's exactly the opposite ?
Simon Rowe can I get an Amen! And say it three more times. Where cops are naïve and literally fooled. By woman lying to dominate and abuse their partner.
@@dr.jackdempsey8712 Blimey. Both you and Andrew have names which have some contribution to how your testimony will reverberate in the history books
@@simonrowe5380 Don't make me blush!
Hugely powerful talk Andrew. An important and I would guess largely ignored issues also.
Thanks Steve - really appreciate the compliment
An amazing talk.
This resonates with me so deeply. You stay because you have children and you always wait for a better day. That day never comes but you still forgive the injuries and hurt. Her affair and false allegations became the catalyst for me to leave and divorce her. The damage done to my children is immeasurable. But something strange happened, a chain of events took place and I am in such a better place. Its like I had to wait 18 years to understand what was wrong. It wasn't me, it was her. Things have turned a corner. I am soon to wed the most amazing woman. She saw me at my very worst and didn't give up on me. My future is brighter because I have an understanding of what is and isn't acceptable. There is no shame in this topic, please get out of the situation. Abuse is abuse regardless of who, where and why.
Thanks so much for sharing - am so glad that regardless of what you went through, you have come through it and are in a good place ... wishing you the best for 2022
Well said about a real tragedy that I've encountered in others several times in my life. The triggers are many and varied in both women and men. But the reality is that DV is about human abuse of one person for another. It's not one sided in happening. Thank you for speaking out about it Andrew and having the courage to share your story.
Thanks so much for sharing Neville - I'm glad the talk resonated with you.
Great talk Andrew.
I had a neighbor once that lived a quiet life and people on the block didn't really know him. I regretted that the day he died. I just remember police swarming the apartment and finding out that the guy that lived five houses down killed himself. In some ways, it's worse for men. They have no outlets. I later found out his wife or ex wife, forget which, verbally abused him to the point where he no longer wanted to live. It was hard to get out of bed for days, and I never knew him. I had a family member commit suicide too. He posted stuff randomly online complaining about his wife here and there. Then, tonight my uncle in another country tried calling with video chat. When , I reached him he was hiding from his girlfriend complaining about how violent she was and to look at what she did to him.
Men need support too.
Thanks for sharing - yes the notion that the 'vast majority' of domestic abuse is male perpetrated on female is simply untrue (and the stats show that), but this myth is peddled by many of the larger women's groups/organisations who fear losing funding if the spotlight is shared between male and female victims. What they also fear is more men speaking out and saying enough is enough, and more women speaking out on behalf of men, saying enough is enough, (mothers of abused sons, sisters of abused brothers, partners of abused men (abused by former partners), female friends of abused men). It's not about taking away the focus from women who are horribly abused by men, it's about a new narrative which takes into account all victims of domestic abuse, men women, children, parents abused by their children.
@@andrewpain_speaker I had a family member in another country call on Christmas and he was hiding in the dark screaming into the phone to look at him and that his girlfriend is violent. I didn't know what to do and hung up but sent him info online about support for domestic abuse and what was closest to the region where he was. Everything in the lower half of the country near him had women in the title. And abuse shelters without "for women" Were hours away at the tip of the country. He said she was moving out. But she works in the area she does. For all I knew he could have been dripping in blood and in need of care. He won't even write in full sentences. I have no clue if he found help or is doing it alone. I am young enough to be his daughter. And did a video call to wish him Merry Christmas, but ended up hanging up after telling him it was abuse and to call police. I think seeing Women in the title detours men from reaching. And that's frightening to think of when people are already short on options. The only good news is that they weren't married yet. They were engaged.
@@onlyallegra thanks for sharing - and yes, I agree. Men suffering from domestic abuse are more likely to make a phone call to an organisation, which from its very title, is set up to help men.
Thank you this video is amazing. I saw the red pill documentary before this and I did not know Men were being hurt this much
thanks Jose - really appreciate the compliment - it's hugely under-reported and extremely common.
Its takes courage to share what you went through.Andrew thanks for sharing this inspirational story.stay blessed!Deborah 😊👍
Hey thanks Deborah, I really appreciate you saying so - glad you liked the talk
Great talk. Stay strong mate.
thanks luke - really appreciate your encouragement. I'm glad you liked the talk
Better take a recording of this it may not be up for long as it goes against the narrative.
love it - I'll take that as a compliment!
still here 7 months later
@@oscarnotreallyawiener phew! :)
@@andrewpain_speaker its important Andrew!!
@@oscarnotreallyawiener 100% ... and it's not going anywhere. Awareness is growing ...
Very brave to share this and a great way to raise awareness for male domestic abuse. We always hear about men who do this to women, but very rare we hear this in reverse. Thank you for your bravery.
Thanks so much for your positive feedback. Yes, we rarely hear the stories of men abused by women, or other faces of domestic abuse like parents abused by children. It's not that it's not common, it's that it goes against the prevailing narrative and in the national media, the press will only report on stories with secured convictions and men rarely secure convictions, neither do parents on their children: so the stories remain silent and the press reporting is very one sided.
The usual issue to leave gets really tricky once there are children in the middle of the abusive relationship. My Mother endured the same while me and my sisters were still in our pre-teen/teenage years, where you can't just decide to move to another town because of school and a dozen of other responsibilities. You persuade yourself that it's just a bad phase, that it'll get better. And it never really does, you're trapped in an unending loop. I wish she would have taken us away from our father sooner, but it made her, my sister and I at least the wiser when it comes to this.
I'm glad to see this discussion finally being had on a TedX talk.
thanks so much for sharing. - yes, with children involved, your decision making becomes extremely complicated..
I have some women I know that are so mean to their husbands and partners, this doesn't surprise me.
Yes - thanks for sharing Martina. Sadly both genders are guilty of incredible cruelty at times.
Sad but true