Prodiamine vs. Dithiopyr, Barricade vs Dimension, What Is The Better Spring Pre-emergent?
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- Опубликовано: 20 янв 2018
- SUBSCRIBE HERE - / thegrassfactor
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thegrassfactor@gmail.com
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Matt Martin
5312 W Beaver Creek Dr
Powell, TN 37849
Equipment Used:
Permagreen, Lesco, GNC Sprayers, SOLO, Helena Chemical, Quali-Pro, Syngenta, DowAgro, Harrells, Dickens Turf and Landscape Supply, NuFarm, Bayer, FMC, GORDONS, Prime Source, DJI Phantom, Samsung Galaxy s8+, GoPro Hero 3+, Nikon D3200
Never got past the intro. My time is worth more than your ego.
It's like a Napoleon complex but tailored to my ego 😂
What are you talking about?
I like to drop msm with pre m, especially in the spring- it seems to groom all the nonsense out.
Bye Eddie Felicia.
You had time to leave a comment though.
Quite possibly the best Pre Emergent video breakdown on youtube.
The real deal and most educational and complete content about pre ememrgents, I had seen so far. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Great whiteboard video Matt!! We all appreciate what you do for the lawn care community and help guide everyone in the right direction!
+Ryan Quick thanks Ryan!
Thanks for this video, it really helps!
Wow! You just made my day. You just answered all my questions that I had regarding the proper application of these two pre-emergance. Thank you!
+Gene DuClos awesome, thank you!!
Thanks for that information! It’s my first time doing my own lawn and was planning to hedge my bets and do both. So happy to have learned better so I’m not throwing away money.
I like the details you give, thank you.
Thanks for detail. That was exactly what I was hoping to find today.
Excellent overview! Thanks!
Great video. You speak with authority. Well done.
Thank you, that was a education on those products. I subscribed and will be watching.
Watched this last year before I put out pre-emergent. Thanks for the great info! I put down Prodiamine 2 weeks ago and will put down dithiopyr in about 2-3 weeks👍🏼
Good information, I just started using Prodiamine in early spring this year - thank you!
Thank you for this! Your education and experience really shows. I’d hire you in a minute!
Thank-you for posting this helpful and informative video.
Excellent video. Right to the point .
Great video sir! Very educational.
Thanks Matt, watched again.
Thanks for the great info.
Great presentation !
Thanks for the video, very educational.
Xavier Lemos thank you much, brother. I try hard
Very good info! The camera swinging sideways and the look on your face was epic! LMAO at that!
Did enjoy, and learned a lot!
This is the best channel out
Matt, thank you for the video and being very direct. It's was very informative. I have a question, though. I paid attention when you said they do not work synergistically however, can I throw a full app of one in fall and another, full app of the other a few months later in the spring or is that too hard on the turf since they're both root pruners? This is a st. Augustine lawn and I live in an area where the lawn never really goes dormant.
Thanks, Bill
Nothing like a little winter white board video binge-watching to cure the winter Blues. Only going to be 3 degrees in the morning tomorrow Brrrrrrr.
Good stuff, thanks for the info.
Also, I liked the intro......keep doing what U like.
Totally agree. We used prodiamine. Root pruning which caused take all root rot to explode in st augustine lawns.
Nice video. 👍🏼
Thoughts on using Tupersan vs. Tenacity for a little seeding in Spring for cool season grass?
The other two you are talking about seem to be out for seeding...
Very informative!!!
Great video well said
Thank you!
every year I come to to his video. it is really good
Matt, great video. What do you recommend to use in the fall as a post/pre emergent for Bermuda grass. I live in central Alabama. Thanks!
Thank you SO much for this video. As a newer applicator, I'm working on trying to upsell some of this to my lawn care customers this year. I need to put together a plan for Bermuda and St Aug lawns in West Texas. Watched your live episode earlier, and IM really trying to hit this stuff hard doing my homework. Attending a lawn and ornamental seminar next Friday to get my CEU's out of the way too. From what you just said in this video, I think an early full rate Prodiamine app (starting on 1 Feb.) or Dimension app in April and in the fall might be the way for me to go in this area. If new customers crop up in April or later, sounds like I should use a full rate app of Dimension to get crab grass that may have already sprouted.
rbljackson
As usual Matt is right on the money. I would suggest knowing your lawn and what were the problems it had last year to determine what will be best for you. I utilize 5 pre emergence through the season. I start my season out with Spectical, I haven’t found anything bar none that compare... it is not cheap, but the cost of a return trip by far exceeds the additional cost of chemical. Then I use the same products Matt mentions. Lawns that have had know issues with nutsedge I transition to echelon, lawns that have sand burr we utilize surflan... what I learned over the years is not one product is the fix all. Matt mentions root pruning, think it’s root clubbing, and have experienced this only once and it was in my own lawn... it created a problem that the tap root of the Bermuda would not penetrate the soil and created long runners that are at risk in drought and sickness. Learn your soil profiles of your lawns what works great for Matt may not achieve the same results... keep this in mind Soil, moisture,temperature and water effect the performance of our barriers (pre-emergence)haven’t seen a better source of solid advice on UTube as what Matt suggest.
@@kensurratt3045 what about pennant magnum?Can i apply it at a half rate with a half rate of dimension together?
Great info! thank you! How long after applying either product and watering in is it safe for kids to re-enter the lawn?
Damn this was thorough.
Awesome & very informative video Matt! Can we sneak in a seeding after a first application of Prodiamine by breaking up the vapor barrier in bare spots?
Hey matt great video!quick question! Im new to pre emergents, im in south florida we already seen upper 80s here most likely im too late for prodiamine? And at lower rates what are the chances of root pruning with both (separate applications)if im not precise?
Matt, you and Pete from GCI Turf are the 2 most helpful Turf guys on youtube, especially, as far as the "science" behind lawn care, weed control, chemicals, etc... please keep making videos like this! Would love to see one of Grubs! And especially one of the different Fungus problems like (liquid vs. granular and which ones to use when and how often, etc...)But anyway...I'm in NC also and I have TTTF... Does my Lawn Schedule look fine:--- I put down my 1st App of 0-0-7 Dimension 0.10% at "Full Rate" on Feb. 15--- I plan to do a 2nd App of Dimension at "Full Rate" about 3 months later on May 15--- I plan on OVERSEEDING about 4 months later on Sept. 15--- I plan to put down an App of Tenacity at the time of OVERSEEDING--- I plan to do a 3rd App of Dimension about 6 weeks later on Nov. 1Sorry for this list of questions, but I'm just wanting to make sure I have this down correctly:(1.) As far as my timeframe, is my "spacing" between Apps fine?(2.) Is it okay to do Full Rates for all my Apps based on my timeframe?(3.) To get good Seed germination, that 4 month span between Dimension and Seeding should be enough time for the Dimension to get out the soil shouldn't it?(4.) Is it okay to throw the Tenacity App in there to keep the Weed pressure down when Seeding?(5.) I want to prevent as many Winter Weeds as I can... so if I'm Overseeding on Sept. 15, is the span of 6 weeks long enough to get a successful Seeding before I put down my 3rd App of Dimension on Nov. 1?Thanks!
Awesome video. Learned a lot. So, I'm in MA and late at putting down Fall pre emergent. Would Dimension be the better of the two to apply now? Would I still be able to apply Prodiamine in Feb full dose and then again Dimension in April full dose? I'd like to do that at least this one year to get full control. Also, can you clarify aerating and using either of them in the Fall?
In SW FL with a St. Augustine lawn. I've always used Pendimethalin in the form of LESCO Pre-M. Wondering if I should change and if so, to what. The root pruning issue concerns me as I'm always trying to get the St. Aug. to fill in in one area or another.
I am using a backpack sprayer and this is my first time using prodiamine and green county products
Learning a lot from your videos, Thanks!
How does Prodiamine effect putting grass plugs in and/or how does putting grass plugs in effect Prodiamine's effectiveness?Does breaking the barrier by pulling a plug (and replacing it with a plug) only break the barrier of the plug area or does it "disturb" the entire barrier?
Warm season grass going forward march 8th as first round what would you put down. Just picked up one and spraying it Monday.
In Ct this past season, 2018. we were hammered with heavy rainfalls, 3 to 5 inch rainfalls every other week in spring, unbelievable humidity. More heavy rain in summer 80 degrees at night.
Crabgrass was rampant. I used Dimension and had severe breakthough. $$$ alot of Quinclorac was used to combat the crabgrass. I may switch to prodiamine for 2019.
It may not have been perfect, but likely much better
Matt - I’m in central Indiana with cool season turf. If I do a full app of both (Prodiamine in late March then Dithiopyr in late May), what can I use in the fall to stop winter weeds? I’m concerned about annual rates.
Great Video Matt. We have about 80 acres of fescue we maintain. Use to mix prodiamine in permagreen (with 3way) when I did all the apps. Past couple years, I have an RT that runs the triumph so I started mixing in a tank to alleviate chance of spilling. Problem is, even with a line spraying for agitation, we would get settling. After 2 weeks, bottom of tank had a half inch layer of bright yellow. Was a nightmare to clean. The screens on permagreen would even clog after a few hours with a white powder. Planning on only using Diminsion this season, due to clogging, cleanup and problem with keeping suspended. How did you resolve these issues? We use liquid prodiamine 4L, 2 1/2 gal jugs from quali-Pro.
Good explanation
What works better on Virginia Buttonweef seeds left over from the previous summer?
Hey Matt, Good stuff!
I live close to Charlotte, NC and have Bermuda hybrid and Lots of Grab Grass.
I am wondering if you can use Prodiamine in September then Dithiopyr in January, Prodiamine in Feb and Dithiopyr in late April early May? Neither product would exceed the annual max rate - I had a excessive Grab Grass problem this year.
I live in the PA aria and looking to Aerate seed and fertilize on 9/22. So when is the best time to use a herbicide, also which one would you recommend?
Question:
I have a St. Augustine lawn in Dallas-Fort Worth. My biggest weed problem is with grassy weeds that start growing as early as February, and thrive very well through mid-spring. I was thinking Dimension would be my choice, but there are areas of my lawn that need to fill in with grass, and that root pruning concerns me. Which pre-emergent should I use? How long will each of the two remain effective?
Great helping video! We had a big problem with Oxalis (not sure what type-the kind with yellow flowers) last summer. Is Prodiamine as effective as Dimension in preventing Oxalis-if put down in Virginia in late Feb and late April? If not, could I use Prodiamine in February in VA and Dimension in April or May to prevent oxalis?
I have a huge grassy weed problem. Lots of foxtail, tall fescue clumps, poa anua which is all dead in my lawn right now, and a bit of quack grass mixed in there too. I want to stop as much as possible from coming up next spring here in WI. Any suggestions? Apply this fall and spring too?
Hey I’m re doing my yard. Stripping off all weeds and grass (what little there is) and laying Tifway 419 in next couple weeks on whole yard. I’m local here in Knoxville as well. Can you recommend proper fert/pre m/ organic schedule when this new sod is laid
I am in middle Georgia and put out my prodiamine in February. After i aerate in early may could i throw down some dimension?
Does either of these applications work in rock beds? I'm trying to figure out a way to control weeds in those areas but I can't seem to find much info. I'm hoping that some sort of pre-emergent would work for this type of area. In general, I get broadleaf weeds and grassy weeds. I'm not sure how the discussed products would work on the grassy weeds though. Do you have any info that would be helpful for this?
Hey Matt. I live in Minnesota. Putting down an application of prodiamine should protect my yard throughout the entire summer up until seeding time, correct? I realize that I should follow the chart and plan accordingly up until the time of reseeding as far as a mixture goes. After I put down the prodiamine, fertilized four times throughout this season, and spray for weeds using Tenacity and SpeedZone mixture, is there anything else that you would recommend I do? I am pretty new to the DIY lawn care game, and I am trying to put a plan together.
I'm in the Pacific Northwest (WA State) how early can I apply Prodiamine? Temps this week are strugling to hit the 40's.
Can you use prodiamine in fall , say about 6 to 8 weeks after aeration and overseeding. Have already cut new grass 2 times I’m hoping to cut at least 2 more times. . Planning on Winterizing lawn with Carbon X and putting down lime. Can I use prodiamine at time I’m winterizing the lawn?
Suggestions? I live in S Idaho.. Cold winters and hot summers. My lawn has only two weeds.. Crabgrass and spotted spurge.. What might be your recommendations?
If i put seed down say kbg/pr/and ttf mix and applied pre emerg to early will that seed ever germinate?
Should you run high rate in two split apps? What about the fall? I want pre emergent split app then also.
When is a good time to apply prodiamine if the soil temp is always between 70-90 F?
Matt I used Barricade Granular form on Early Nov 2017 and then again late Jan 2018...still have crabgrass growing...I've read that Tenacity is a good option for post emergent...I don't hear you speak about this product much...is this a good option for me? As a spot treatment maybe? Thx
I just put down a full bag of dithiopyr in minnesota, just started raining and snowing. We are getting probobly1/4" to 1/2" of precipitation in the next 4 days with soil temps 40 range, then the next 10 days after that are dry as a bone and warmer soil. hope I didnt mess up. I did exactly opposite of your advice
Good job Brother!! Which one would you use for Centipede?
Very nice! Good to know the differences between the two! My soil temps are ~40 degrees. You say early is a must. I plan on that! “How early”? :)
What drone are you using? nice camera work.
Can you tank mix them together?
What about young KBG? I renovated last fall. Needs to fill in and thicken up this spring. Will prodiamine hinder this? Thanks!
Will one of these prevent nimblewill?
I saw you are a contributor to the LCN pre emergent guide. Do you think the use of both products as he describes is a good option? It seems like going with a max rate prodiamine app in February and then 2 split apps of dithiopyr may be a good option as well. You stated dithiopyr is good for broad leafs that appear over winter. Thanks for any help as I’m a new subscriber 👍🏼.
yep, he definitely proposes a great option. I don't like the idea of doing max rate prodiamine and max rate of dithipyr all in a single spring though. that will likely cause significant root pruning.
I live in Ohio and prodiamine application rates are listed by single grass type, I have a mixture of tall rescue, rye, and kbg what rate would you recommend, I'm my sure which grass type is the dominant
What about Tupersan if you plan on seeding?
I live in southern ct, soil temps historically hit 55 degrees around April 15th. Can I put down Prodiamine first week of April and spot treat for weeds as they come up during season?
Thanks for great content!
Yes
Great video Matt, loving the channel! I'm a homeowner in Charlotte, NC who bought my house last winter, then suffered through a horrible year of crabgrass in my fescue lawn because I didn't get ahead of it with a pre-emergent. I'm wondering when I should time my first app of granular prodiamine to make sure that I get ahead of the crabgrass this year. Feb 1? Feb 15? Mar 1?
Chris Walker pick your poison. Either of those 3 dates will work.
The Grass Factor much appreciated! Keep the good content coming!
Very enlightening thanks! Mid to late April I applied Barricade, I'm aware it consists of protamine so if RI does not get a lot of rain in August and September could it be a waste to plant grass seed? Another question if you do not mind. Will either of these weed killers kill these creeping wild flowers which cover the lawn like rugs?
it breaks down through heat and photodegradation so yes, you will be fine to plant grass. no, pre-emergents don't kill weeds. it will prevent some broadleaf weeds, but not most of them.they will have to be controlled post-emergently.
Wow that was fast. You just broke a response world record I think. Not that is service!
when you say early, you mean spring application?
What is "bahuve you"?
Can excessive rainfall break down Dimension prematurely or even wash it away? I've always used Dimension (I'm in south eastern Pennsylvania) and usually apply at a high rate in early May with great success. Last year we got significantly more rain than we generally get and by late June the crabgrass exploded. I've never seen anything like it - I had to nuke with Quinclorac in late summer to clear it for aerating/seeding season.
And by significantly more rainfall I mean we're just starting to see dry ground for the first time since October of 2017. I went stretches where I couldn't mow for weeks on end because my ExMark would have turned the entire property into a BMX track had I tried to run on it.
Yes excessive rain can leech it too deep to be effective
Fall/winter pre?
So prodiamine seems like the clear favorite vs dithiopyr for an established lawn, but are the root pruning effects that much worse? I'm asking because I have a newly renovated tall fescue lawn from last year and want to encourage root growth. Would using dimension provide a noticeable difference (to help root growth) or is it largely negligible after the plants are 6+ months old? Been watching your channel for a while now, awesome info as always!
+Mikeoz .you won't notice a difference on fescue as you would a grass that spreads by stolon. I think both are good choices, just depends 9n budget and timing
Thx Matt! I used Dimension last year with good results but I might give prodiamine a go this year since it lasts longer and I've got pretty good control of weeds in my yard now. I know your channel is more geared towards the pros but you got a ton of good info for homeowners too. I bet you'll see a big jump in subscribers this year!
When you mention a split app of Prodiamine, do you mean doing 2 apps at full rates before the germinate period (April 10-15 here in MD)? I did my first liquid Prodiamine app on Feb 14th. Didn’t feel good with the app because I used a pump backpack sprayer. May do a granular 2nd app in the areas I’m not sure about if I can’t get a good battery operated backpack sprayer so I have consistent pressure. I’m a DIY homeowner, not a professional. Your thoughts?
I do two half rates. If you're not comfortable, absolutely, touch up with granular.
The Grass Factor thanks for the feedback.
Hello Matt! So even though Prodiamine is root prunner would the Humic acid aid that issue?
malo no directly. Prodiamine can still potentially chemically club the roots. HA will provide a more conducive soil medium for root development. HA won't have a specific impact on preventing the chemical action of prodiamine. The cytokinins in kelp can drive greater root production, but again no guarantees against clubbed roots. Root pruning is an issue to be concerned with when you're apply high rates of prodiamine. If you're at the 1-1.5lbs/AI/A, then not a concern.
What about goosegrass control with these products? Apply later, or use Oxaidazon or some other product?
Oxadiazon is nice but it doesn't have residential label. Goose is mostly resistent to DNIs. Pylex as POST is top choice at the moment
Hey Matt- great content. Question, I live in Massachusetts and have already purchased Lesco 19-0-7. Should I spring rake the lawn fully first?
What's your intention by spring raking?
The Grass Factor basically to help dethatch the lawn, which in turn might help increase the effectiveness of the pre-emergent application. Thoughts?
Dethatching let's all that organic matter go to waste. Opening up the soil surface won't increase pre efficacy. Spraying it with molasses and applying nitrogen will chew up all that dormant grass and recycle it as food quickly. No waste, tons of benefits.
The Grass Factor very interesting. Saves me a lot of raking!
I have an acre and cost becomes an issue. Prodiamine is cost effective Dithiopyr is not. Have you used or what is your opinion on Pendulum 3.3 Ec? How/when would you use it for Tall Fescue?
Travis Morgan pendi works well, just stains really bad. Timing would be like February April or March may.
Is there one u would recommend over the other for poa ..thinking of doing a split app in the fall
Prodiamine has higher efficacy on poa, but they both have very high instances of resistance. They're the same mode of action
The Grass Factor and from what I’ve read I should put out when the soil temp reaches 70° should I also do prior to that if I’m doing a split app ?
Matt, I have Fescue What is the rate per 1000 of prodiamine ? Candy I put RGS with the prodiamine ? How many oz per 1000?
what formulation of prodiamine? RGS can be applied with it at 3oz per thousand
Matt is that 3oz per 1000
Thumbs up everybody!!
Can I still use the RGS if I put down Milorgranite 2 weeks ago ?
Grassology4610 yessir
How many squad feet of lawn does a 2L of Dithiopyr cover? Thanks!
SONG FITSTER LOU depends on rate, the label should tell you
Thought I'd inquire before I invested the money. Needed to know if it would be worth it for me or not.
Should have mentioned that dimension covers poa annua and dallisgrass, neither of these are controlled with prodiamine. The dallisgrass in particular is important since the only effective selective herbicide has been banned for residential use.
Dimension prevents poa annua and dallisgrass - as does prodiamine. In fact, studies show prodiamine is exponentially more effective in preventing poa than dithiopyr. Dallisgrass, though, is a perennial. It must be killed before it can be prevented from returning. Dithiopyr nor prodiamine offer post emergent control of dallisgrass or the spread of dallisgrass through rhizomatic activity. They both inhibit the rooting of dallisgrass seeds though.
Matt, is it safe to mix next microgreen,prodiamine and RGS ?
I would test that in a jar first
Matt - do you sometimes use a batch of water retaining crystals in your fertilizer spreader when treating the yards of customers who don't do much watering?
no, because the best case scenario would be delaying the drought symptoms would be a week or so. It's hard to justify the added expense for such a small return. I'd have better results using porous carbon, so that's my game plan moving forward.
The Grass Factor - which specific porous carbon product do you use ?
I'm in the process of manufacturing a granular biochar to use
The Grass Factor - granular should work well.
Ize O Penn the hard part is granulating it with viable crush strength and nutritive value as well 😭
Appreciate the in depth info. Don't appreciate the intro non technical stuff. Just get right to it. Thanks