Air Source Heat Pump Installation & Set-up UK Case Study
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- Опубликовано: 16 фев 2023
- An in-depth review on an Air Source Heat Pump installation, looking at the benefits, disadvantages, and potential savings to be made.
Head to our website for the latest developments and updates on Heat Pumps: bit.ly/3Iu5yiO
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Ditch the music....
Cannot do that now, Sorry.
Thanks you've made my mind up. Another gas boiler is the way forward 😮
Thanks for watching.
Great video guys. Really made me laugh when you lost your train of thought and said we can cut that bit out 😂 and the cameraman agrees. Very informative video and you obviously have a sense of humour. Love it 👍
OoOOps did we leave that bit in... Cheers for the feedback Sam, we're glad you enjoyed it!
😂 @Heatable
Great video guys. I've got a Mixergy tank. Will the Daikin Integrate with the Mixergy?
Costs a fortune to install to possibly save a little bit on your bills? 🤔
So, what do you get out of it in the winter?
What does it cost to run in the winter?
Mine has cost about £80 in January on cheap rate, without the cheaper rates and battery storage it would be around £400
@@AllenHart999 Phew! Just signed up to have one installed via a government grant scheme....I currently use 500 litres of oil per month cost approx £350 plus £140 electric with Octopus ....help it will save a few pennies?
Cost is the blocker in most cases at the moment. As the gas reserves become depleted prices will rise and ASHP etc will become more viable. However, its interesting you mention the requirement for DNO connection approval and possibly pay for substation upgrades. Where I live, I believe the problem is conductor size in the underground supply cables. The cables were laid in the 1920s when the load per property was a fraction of what it is today AND almost entirely resistive. Today not only do we run many more appliances, but much of the load is at poor power factor (0.5 or lower) due to low voltage electronic power modules in appliances. Which means the supply network actually sees a far greater load. As you say if everyone suddenly changed to ASHP and EV charging most supplies to residential areas will need massive, very expensive and disruptive upgrades. Imagine having to excavate and lay new cables to every property in a town. That is the challenge, not getting people to accept the new technology.
I guess if you have solar panels with battery storage it makes an Heat Pump far more palatable. Charge the battery over night electric rates, use that to drive the heat pump.... does that make sense.
You can't produce electricity from a solar cell over night so wont be able to charge a battery overnight. Solar power only works in daylight, and if you dont use electicity from it in the daytime, then you can save it to a battery in the day time only.
@Kababalax you charge it on a low rate tariff if you have none to use in your battery
@@Kababalax you can charge the battery on a cheaper overnight rate.
Hi All very informative stuff. Any thing the manufacturer can do. IE Change the way COP works with temperature? Or use different coolant?
Awkward one really. The only refrigerant really worth switching to is Ammonia (in my opinion in 20 years everything will be on hybrid Ammonia). But with Ammonia comes extra training needed which the average hvac guy in the UK doesn't have and probably won't want to work with as its more dangerous to the engineer. As far as efficiency of refrigerants manufacturers are increasingly more limited by refrigerant bans due to environmental policy demands.
Sounds to me like heat pumps are not there yet, they take up a lot more room, more clutter and are not cheaper than gas.
Thank you, fully understand the back end of the air source pump, wanted to see the front end - radiators and thermostats. This solution is the only solution I have as no gas in my area (Scotland)
Hopefully this will be an okay solution for your home!
As a plumber/gas engerneer I was going to look at getting some training to fit these pumps, after watching this video I think I'll stick with has
Why wouldn't you want to train to fit these?
@@Heatable because the customer will have to get a 2nd morgage out to pay for the fucker we are all to busy paying for asylum seekers in hotels
with that attitude I wouldn't employ you@@Duckfit
A really fair evaluation. Nice to hear both sides.
Thank you, glad you feel that way! We always try to give a fair evaluation
Thank You.
I'm about to have internal insulation fitted to every external wall, an airsource heat pump with rads and solar. All via an ECO4 grant. We're increasing the number of panels and adding a battery at our ecpense
The battery will be one of the best investments you make with a system like this!
He’s so right when he said it’s turned into an addiction. I got 20 panels in, changed to induction cooker and I’m already bent on getting the octopus heat pump in
Great video. What is the size (in kwh) of that heat pump
Hi Mohammed, it's actually an 8kw pump and has the capacity to heat all of Allen's house. However, Allen will use an Alpha E Tec combi boiler occasionally as an additional heat source.
@@Heatable Many thanks for taking the time to answer my question. Good stuff
I have a beautiful but small 250yr old welsh cottage, and a ‘grant’ surveyor coming to ‘sell’ me one of these. My ceilings aren’t high enough for a cylinder like that - or the fact the outside unit will totally spoil the look of the place. Insulating the walls externally will take away the stone character, and internally will reduce a 9’ room to an impractical space. I’ll be stopping with my oil boiler and log burner me thinks! 😊. Thanks very much for the informative video!
Yes it sounds like your property might not be the most suitable without a lot of extra work. It's always good to do some research before changing your whole system over to an air source heat pump. Happy we could help! :)
Fantastic video guys, my parents are getting air source and solar with no batteries though, my concern is they have a multi fuel fire and rads at the moment and it’s like 90 degrees in there when you go in, i am concerned that the air source pump will not be warm enough for them, plus the house is all on suspended wooden floors that are as draughty as, Is this going to be a good move for them, they are getting it done for free as there income is lower than 31k ( they have both worked all their lives and never claimed for nothing so I pushed them into getting something for nothing so feel I will be responsible for the outcome. But the more i look into it i am not sure! I know the cost of the smokeless fuel is to be offset against the electricity but the house will be cold if the heating is turned off inside 2hrs where with a coal fire it’s warm for hrs and hrs after fire has gone out. What would your answer be. Cheers john
Hi John, the suitability of the property is the most important factor. Air source heat pumps do work but only when the property has been upgraded / insulated. Could you give us any information about the property or if there's plans to upgrade insulation etc? In terms of the solar that's a no brainer though!
@@Heatable Hi it’s ground floor is on suspended wood floors that let draught through, which is don’t think they are planning on insulating, they have cavities insulated and loft already, house is a small three bed semi X council house. My main concern is the draughty floors, they only use 6kw average a day so could double this to 12-15 kw per day and be no worse off, but will it be warm enough as they are in there 80’s👍
I've researched so much on retro fitting old houses and heat pump. My advice please don't do it. Why? You've got very poor insulation already. Heat pumps are very great on purpose built new builds with solar and battery and a garage.
So you need new pipes, new radiators, new equipment, more space for basically a plant room adds a bill of about £20k for a typical house!! Savings are a lot less than the 4-1 as gas is far cheaper than electrical! Not affordable or practical for most UK households i suggest!!!
Can get air to air for +-2k but yeah, gas might be cheaper anyway. Air-air get COP of 2.5 at -7c and even at -15c.
You don't appear to be bright. What's the output you're comparing. If you compare gas abstractly without a measure then it appears cheaper. This gadget is more efficient than a gas boiler.
What about the noise level of the heat pump and how much vibration that it generates
We were actually surprised at how quiet the heat pump was. This one is on the side of a garage, but even on the side of a house, the vibration is noticeable but still rather minimal.
The radiators from a boiler installation can be used with a heat pump ?
You would need to increase the size of your radiators or change to underfloor heating as the heat pumps have lower flow and return temperatures
You only need to change your radiators if you don’t have an alternative source of heat. Insulation is obviously the first and most important item to reduce the heat requirement. For example a couple of small electric rads in the centre of the property to provide background heat, linked to a solar system with batteries that covers the hot water as well via the immersion heater in an existing hot water tank. As stated in the video the batteries can be charged overnight at cheap rates if the solar doesn’t provide enough electricity in the winter. Solar is also aimed at charging an EV which helps with the cost in use savings obviously provided you have a drive. Hybrid systems are one way forward that reduces the need to change the existing rads.
@@kubakorczak4695That’s assuming your original rads were sized appropriately by the original engineer. They are frequently oversized in older properties because they were put in by guesswork, rule of thumb or to cope with less insulation than you might have in the house now. Your MCS qualified installer will measure all your rads and calculate their output at the new lower flow temp. This is then matched to the heat loss calculation for each room, which they are also required to do. I was actually able to downsize some older inefficient ones in the bedrooms 😊.
You would normally need bigger rads to get low flow temps.
Please ask as many questions as possible. Thanks.
Im having the same system installed by octopus! I would like some videos on the user controls heat curve etc! I don’t think the hand over will be long enough for it to sink into my head 😂 be handy to be able to refer to the Daikin controllers
@@rymoe6299 We'll add this to the list for our next video! Don't forget to subscribe so that you get a notification for it.
@@rymoe6299 How did you get on with it? Thanks.
@@AllenHart999 not very well. Deposits all laid etc with verbal 6 weeks lead time. Turned into 6 months lead time still with no guaranteed date. So I’ve gone with a local company and having a 6kW Ecodan installed. It’s been ordered and the installers will drop on it as soon as it comes in. Your welcome to come and look
Installers been MCS this RHI inception biomass Etc. They normally do commercial work. More expensive than octopus but I’m pretty confident of a good install
Come and check it out? I can leave ya the key.
1948 solid wall council house. EWI, triple Glazed, pv and battery’s, EPC from F to B with only 2pts from an A
Best if you've got underfloor heating as a body of heat by the looks
Am I right to get a grant for ASHP, you would need to remove your gas boiler and other appliances?
Yes you can't currently get a grant for a hybrid heat pump, you would need to remove your current gas boiler.
How long does it take to install? How much is an annual service? Why do you have more than one battery? What is the cost of a battery? What is the life span of a battery? What is the life span of an 'air source heat pump? How many solar panels do you have? What was the total cost of the whole system including batteries, solar panels etc please? What was your gas bill for the same month as an air source pump as a simpler comparison as this is a big factor. NB Government grants may be available.
Heat pumps are not ideal for everyone, the unit and installations costs are very high, plus added space for indoor units. the savings do not really justify the expense. if a majority of customers who have a "hot" rad at the moment, suddenly get told "oh you need a heat pump, buffer tank, oh and these radiators need to be replaced too" most will just say "replace the current gas boiler". some advisors are not giving customers the full information of these to the customer regarding the running costs over the year.so some customers have a zero or very low gas bill, but the electric bill has doubled, and in 3 cases I have seen the electric bill at 3 times what it used to be.
But the gas bill has disappeared 👍
Yes, the electricity bill will typically increase unless you have solar panels to power that side of things, but don't forget that there won't be any gas bill anymore.
@@Heatable You also need to actually fully insulate your house. ideally from external outside layer. Most houses built older than the 1960's need massive upgrades externally
They're not remotely feasible for the UK, at all.
I see the potential with this solution but they do seem to take up a lot of space. Most houses might not have this available.
You do need the space to install it all.
Good video, proper discussion. Could do without tunes.
Thanks for the feedback!
Most heat pumps are rated on their nominal heat output, they require a much lower electrical connection.
class from allen as always!
Thank You
Does it need electricity to turn it on and make the heat pump work?.
Yes the heat pump runs off of electricity. For every one kilowatt of electricity used they can create up to four kilowatts of heat to warm your radiators and hot water.
Yes.
The red switch? Doesnt that mean someone walking past your house could just turn it off 😂
My house is a perfect candidate for a heat pump Octopus Energy have surveyed it and say that my house requires 4.8kw unit and where happy to install. BUT. Won’t install the Daikin heatpump on our house wall 7 ft above the ground and that’s the only place it can be fitted, so they refunded my deposit. How daft is that when Daikin make the bracket and condense tray for just that purpose.
Did they explain the service costs by having it on a wall instead of ground
That's probably why
How does the water reach higher than the 60 degrees which yòu said was the maximum,
I'm hearing you still need a emersion heater which is still better than having a gas bill,
I honestly think these are the future,
After 18 years in the heating business as a gas engineer I do believe this is the future,
I have my courses in air source in march and would appreciate any contacts with the same interest and is looking to make a difference within this new exiting opportunity,
Good explanations.
Very informative, thank you guys. I live in a brand new bungalow, with limited outside space potential.
Question, can an ASHP be installed at height, say 2 metres?
With a combi boiler can I reduce the size of the tank?
and could the installation be installed in the pitched roof of the garage, if weight bearing calculated?
Thanks again for you expertise.
Kevin.
Hi Kevin, sorry these ASHP's can only be installed on flat roofs not pitched ones!
Can't you run this ASHP off your solar panels?
Hi Richard, yes the air source heat pump is linked up with the solar panels!
You can in the summer when we have sun.
Is valliant any good?
We haven't got any direct experience with Vaillant heat pumps, but if the boilers are anything to go off then yes - they're a good company!
I have my heating on for 2 hours in the morning and 3 in the evening from Nov to March. If it;s very cold I boost it for an hour or two, So it's not running all the time. With the heat pumps you have to run them for a long time to keep the place heated. How can that be more efficient than the gas combi. Why would you also need a combi (as Italy) to go with it, I want engineers to work on making electric combi heaters more efficient so small homes and flats can install them and leave the heat pumps for the homes with garages and gardens.
The only advantage for me is no longer needing heating oil deliveries and perhaps no longer a faint odour of kerosene outside. Disadvantages - 1 Noise and vibration, often intrusive, that even spreads indoors - 2 More expensive than the oil heating -3 can't cope in winter - 4 slow to respond to changes in ambient temperature or even temp setting - 5 expensive to service as it doesn't use standatd parts such as thermostats, programmers etc. that you can pick up almost anywhere. Combined dedicated controller for temperature and programs is listed at well over £300. 6 - Takes up significant space indoors as well as being unsightly.
Presumably, it's better for the planet depending on how the electricity is generated.
Very well summerised, thank you👍🏻
June 2023 46 percent of electricity was generated from zero carbon sources. 36.9 percent from gas. What needs to happen is equipment costs need to come down to make this more financially viable. Hopefully as time moves on and the demand for heat pumps increases, the cost of the units will come down.
Is now
I would have liked to see all the disruption in the house involved in fitting one of these things. I'd also like to know how long on average it takes. My partner has arranged to get one fitted without telling me first. He'll be lucky if he sees his next birthday.
It can cause a lot of disruption in the property if you need to update your pipe sizing and any radiators, but the level of disruption is individual to each property. It can take up to a week to do... Considering your partner didn't ask you first, maybe you should go and book yourself a nice week somewhere 😂
@@Heatable Thanks for your quick reply. 😊 Could you tell me if radiators are necessary in order to have a heat pump installed? We don't have any. I've searched on the Net but can't find any answer to the question.
Yes they're needed and will be bigger.
Wondering if the hybrid system would get you any government grant?
The government grant doesn't cover hybrid systems currently, but would be great to see this happen!
Is it any good
That all depends on if it's done for the correct property. Air source heat pumps aren't great in a lot of properties but do work well in some!
Great video. Above comment baffling.My contribution to say that I have a single phase electric ity dupply and with an EV charger suspect I would have to upgrade to 3 phase
Why do we have these yellow/red isolators on residential installs - seems inappropriate.
Thanks for that, honest and informative. Not sure if you have it right about the hybrid car though, its the worst of both worlds! Just get the best made EV with its own charging network - Tesla.
Totally interesting and showing how useless these things are for most houses the Uk at this time.
Hopefully it is a very balanced and honest video so people can make the right choices.
what if its -10 outside?
Works minus 30
it still works it just costs more to run.
So it heats in summer better 😂😆
Can it cool too like most of hvac in the USA
Why do you have a gas boiler hanging in the background??
All of these boilers have previously been used on test as and when.
We do videos with @heatable on gas boilers.
What size if the buffer please?
Hey Roman, it's 20 litres.
Very informative video.
They have more than scop = 5
Not many systems as a % run at better than 3.5
A green party's CHRISTMAS toy gift for the scientists!
My current dilemma is to install underfloor heating with air source heat pump and make sure they stay warm,
Guys, there's a new air source, ground source company that's just stepping into the game, built from gas engineers we know what the price comparisons are,
We believe the energy market is changing and only going to go up!,
Like British gas was for boilers I'm trying g to start the same for low energy high efficiency,
Air source, pay know, save later😊
And
You guys started so well,
Why are doing a video on air source when you do not believe in it?,
Hopefully we can meet up some time to chat,
You should be installing these for greener living, (eco),
Government grants at the moment,
All installations are warranty for 10 years,
It’s a lot of equipment just for hot water and heating and expense
Takes up quite a lot of space.
Did you do this entire video without actually showing a picture of a heat pump?
Shame you can see the pipes that he’s talking about but great view if his head
i have a big head lol. sorry about that.
Bloody hell.
Talk about complex.
I and most people will have no idea if it’s more economical or not.
Stick with the gas boiler, and who has space for a monster like that tank and space outside with 300mm gap at rear.
Glad I decided to look into these setups. What an absolute joke. Try putting these in a two up two down or a flat. And bigger radiators! Oh, give me a break! And what about when more and more people do have these. Installed. So what happens with the power grid permissions then?! OK. No polluting, which is great. And I am wholeheartedly all for that. But, come on. It is insanely impractical for the vast majority.
EU wants to get rid of boilers after 2029. There is a new draft regulation for space heaters, ecodesign.
We will see what happens.
Great video. but not the heat pump
Thanks.
Good vid...but didnt need the bastard music🤣
Thanks for the feedback Andrew 👊
15 mins into this video, such a complicated conversation, trying to explain one against the another, how can you compare based on gas vs elec pricing which constantly change. watching this while they are fitting an air source heat pump at my home. my goodness i hope i made the correct choice, having sad that i think i may have not...
@@zlmdragon. that's not a nice comment viki 🤦♂️
insist they setup weather compensation properly, its critically important with a heat pump, get them to show you how to nudge the compensation curve up or down.
@@edc1569 thank you!
Music bro......going back to electric boiler due the music alone. Total pinky and brain energy.....lol.
Gas combi much better at the moment
I agree for a lot of people gas boiler is better at the moment.
You plant room must be huge
The cylinder for this heat pump was installed in a garage.
its in the garage.
The point seems to be that the system will be less efficient during the winter, exactly the time when you need it. How many people want radiators in the summer yet it seems, if I'm understanding what you are saying the efficacy is established over the entire year. Which seems like cheating.
Yes you're not wrong 😂 These air source heat pumps only remain efficient in the right properties with the right insulation etc.
Well that was painful to watch got to 8 mins ish when you got two blokes taking about 2to1 and 4to1 12p a unit for gas 10 p a unit for electricity it reminded me of being in a pup after work listening to a lot of crap not understanding it but enjoying it because I was having a beer😂 so I’m going to have a beer , not in a pup because they are all shutting around here and that’s because beer to bloody expensive 😂
It must have been some awful pub talk.... 😂
@@Heatable yep 👍 but then pub talk is ,we had a bullshit corner and that’s where these two belong😂 have a great day
Thanks for the feedback
You would have to be rich to install all equipment
not now i spent all my money
I'll stick with gas and wait for a hydrogen combi
Hydrogen is very explosive to have in the house.
Surely it would be better to do solar panels and have an electric Boiler to do the hotwater and heating! The Solar panels will offset the costs and help when everyone goes electric cars! Everyone I know that has Heat pumps moans about the size and plumbing and the noise of the device!
Im far from convinced
This video is here to give an honest view to people.
😮 So when the weather is cold, they don't work as well....so just like electric cars. 😂
Great info...BUT totally split with the stupid music
We'll take note, thanks Stephen.
Heck - think I'd rather just pay the extra electricity costs of simple panel heaters.....than have to put up with all that ugly complicated set up.
What is NET ZERO? Cut Emissions of Co2. What do plants feed off? Co2.
WAKEY WAKEY !!!
RUclips content hahaha
This information just shows Heat Pumps are not the answer to heating in the UK far too many negatives and costs involved.
Hybrid heat pumps
Try putting these in 100-150 year old terrace houses. Your company's name will be mud after a couple of years.
Hey Martin, we don't currently sell air source heat pumps, this is just a study to see what benefits / drawbacks the product has.
Looks awful, definitely the inside, just had a home survey energy efficient and there trying to force a heat pump and solar panels, which I'm rejecting, rather have a new combi boiler.
And in winter when we need it the most..it's crap!
This technology is worse than oil fired central heating and the old fashioned storage heaters. I'm going to hang on to my small gas combi boilers for as long as possible, I don't have a garage or a garden or a plant room so can not accommodate a system like this. One that needs a combi boiler to work with it!!!
It sounds like a gas boiler would suit your property better then, these aren't suitable for every home.
@@Heatable My gas Combi boiler is 14 years old & will need replacing soon. I hoped to install a Heat Pump until I saw your video and a couple of others and realised how much space they take up, What will be the climate friendly heating for flats after new gas boilers are banned?
@@sniperpd9505 Gas boilers are only being banned on new build properties so as long as the flat isn't a new build then it won't be a problem.
@@Heatable I thought they would not be available for any house after 2035. What will be the alternative for flats then. All eggs appear to be in the heat pump basket.
@@sniperpd9505 Boilers currently accept 20% hydrogen, so if the government decide, we could eventually move to hydrogen gas. It's uncertain what's in the plan after 2035. Heat pumps could be an option they choose, but there's going to have to be big changes if they're ever going to work for properties with no space for the cylinder.
Not a good option for those people who live within a budget . These things are for the wealthy .
So Biased!!!!!!
Biased in what way?
Ugly, and does not work so well in winter. Gas boiler all the way. World has gone mad
Ugly, maybe, but they do work in winter.
I'll stick with my combi, I'll make sure I get a new gas boiler put in, in 2029, hopefully that can see me through to 2041 or so. Don't like these heat pumps at all.
For existing homes they are being phased out from 2035.
@@sniperpd9505for new homes
Yes, definitely ditch the music. Otherwise, what a load of gobble decoupled nonsense! I feel better informed, but none the wiser!
at least you feel better informed, we'll take that.
These things are an absolute con. Total downgrade from gas combi boilers.
We actually install a hybrid heat pump that comes with a combi boiler - a good middle ground of stepping into the renewable space but getting all the reliability of a combi boiler.
Too many mistakes made and inaccuracies today!! Also NOT finishing subjects and not made easily understandable to those ill-informed! Poor video - you need to redo this and correct all your errors and inaccuracies!
let us know which bits you feel are incorrect
Did you do this entire video without actually showing a picture of a heat pump?