Aussie plumber and plumbing trainer here. How edifying it is to see qualified and knowledgable tradies at work, getting the job done in an orderly and professional manner. Well done boys.
It was an amazing experience to be involved in this installation. Well done to everyone who made it happen and to the homeowners for putting up with us 😃
I noticed that you have removed a sensor pocket on the new heat geek cylinder and replaced it with a expansion release valve. Why do you have an expansion release Valve and a high temp. and pressure release valve on the cylinder??? Why not just the high temp and pressure release valve and leave the top thermostat pocket?
I have to admit, I never warmed to Adam at first, I mistook his passion as aggression, but now I can see his passion as a real asset to the industry. Thank you to all the plumbers, tradesmen, and suppliers who donated their time and equipment to get this system working.
I have no idea why anyone would go anywhere else when wanting a heat pump installed. A heat geek elite installation is leagues above the rest of the crap out there! Pay cheap pay twice! Well done lads keep up the amazing work
cuz people trying novel tech with no knowledge of it arent known for their intilligence, plus heat geek sounds scammy as hell(would bet money it is), guys just seem insincere and far too charismatic.
This was a brilliant watch. Such a positive experience. John getting his system sorted, Roger questioning and being the critical voice and the Heat Geek team smashing it in 1.5 days. Awesome to watch a team of heating engineers at the top of their game. Great work everyone.
It was great fun being there. Thanks for having me. The house is nice and toasty too. Can we rip the boiler out please John 😊 Also thank you both for all the tea n coffee
Great work by all of the lads there. Really good to see fellow heat geeks coming together to show how it should be done. One point I did notice though, you used copper press onto the stainless connections off the unit. You really shouldn't be doing that as they will react, you need to use a brass fitting to transition from stainless to copper
Rip it all out - and install much less! Looking forward to showing what Heat Geek installs can do. Prediction for this install is that it will end the year well in excess of 400% efficiency! - Follow the live link to see how it’s getting on in the description. Thanks for having us over Roger and Dylan! Biggest collaboration in home energy right now.. Looking forward to our fight in Birmingham 😡 🥊
My friend is a pensioner. He has already ditched a heat ing system for this useless heat pump. He had to fit a lot of special radiators etc. He now cannot justify a new pump and system at £10 K
People like my friend will not be installing another heat pump unless what has already paid ~£10000 for is made to work correctly. That's the problem. He tells others about his problem and the result is what you see in the comments
@@stephenrichards5386Given that they've just done a video replacing a crap install and have talked about it at length, that's not exactly news to them. I think Roger's shifted his position on heat pumps over the last few years (in terms of their viability when put in by a capable installer), but his point about the patchy national training quality is still totally on point. Until the government gets certification & training standards sorted, billions will be wasted on poor installs. I live in Scotland and there are very few heat geeks near me, and I wouldn't trust a random engineer to do it -- too many things to go wrong. Heat pumps are definitely the future, but we've got a long way to go!
Great vid guys. I love to see you succeed where others say say can't be done. Took a look at the CoP and it's coming in at just under 3.9 right now. I'm sure it'll improve, but certainly borderline considering what you guarantee.
You are not wrong. I would take any of these guys without hesitation. My neighbour just called out British Gas under their beakdown cover. He spent an hour there and failed to spot the problem. Something was tripping the RCD. He went away saying it was a mystery of science. I went in and it took me less than five minutes to find the fault. Video coming soon.
Amazing! Wonderful collaboration. The volunteers were absolutely awesome and my hat goes off to them. I pray that decision makers in government are watching this channel and reaching out to Roger and Heat Geeks rather than big contractors who also happen to be Tory party donors and will subcontract work to bodge job merchants; this series has been a masterclass in quality workmanship, trade education and customer service. Thanks to everyone involved. Brilliant!
Probably the biggest smile I've had on my face watching a RUclips video, some of the best ASHP installers all knocking it out together, must be a proud moment for Adam, such a great reward for the years spent bringing these guys to such a high level of credibility. So Roger when are you getting one.
Hi Derek I was offered one for nothing but I like the flexibility of a gas boiler than I can turn up and down and don't have to run 24/7. We switched our boiler on at 5 pm today. We didn't need it on during the day. it will go off at 10 p.m and the house will cool down to a comfortable sleeping temperature. John's house stays at the same temperature day and night. If you like that then get a heat pump but I don't.
@@SkillBuilder Hi, surely the individual rooms (like bedrooms) can be kept at different temperatures from the rest of the house? Or do you mean you have your bedroom warm in the day, and cold at night? Great video btw.
@@SkillBuilder So how are you going to decarbonise Roger? You'll have to eventually. Cooler bedrooms is the main reason for bedrooms downstairs and living accomodation upstrairs, which isn't very common in the UK, but you could probably do it in quite a lot of houses if you wanted to. We just don't heat our bedroom at all but it doesn't stop the living room being at a nice temperature. Seems to me that's independent of the heat source.
@@SkillBuilder "John's house stays at the same temperature day and night". There's no real reason for that to happen though, unless it is his preference. A setback temperature at nigh-time allows for different night-time temps.
Brilliant to see experts and suppliers coming together to very publicly prove heat pumps are a good thing. This will soon be one of the most watched systems in the UK. Well done to all! To John's neighbour: sleep well :)
And if you are the victim of a bad install, you will really be left up s*** creek paying to have a team of experts dissect your current system and rebuild it. I think I will wait until the government artificially makes Gas too expensive or my current gas boiler to be against "regulations" until I get my heat pump installed thank you :)
@@chunkymonkey55555 By that time, there will be plenty redundant gas fitters who will happily chuck in the new gas boiler you surreptitiously concealed beneath the stairs.
@@markrainford1219I had a boiler switched out on a house about a year ago, guy was in and out in half a day, since then, no problems, nothing once, :) Apparently according to an advert I saw on the TV the other day, we "all have a great big desire for change" Personally as long as it heats the place, I couldn't give a s***. :)
This has been an amazing series, genuinely pleased for the homeowner and in awe of the HG's who volunteered their time, thanks to all involved for moving the industry forward and providing entertainment along the way
What’s also great is to see Adam and Roger collaborating and the fruits from it. They could easily have taken their early interaction in a much different direction. Just shows how maturely discussing a point of contention trumps the ‘us vs them’ cult approaches so prevalent online today.
Great to see a positive result from this story.. we had a heat pump installed 10 months ago, in a 1970s house which was not perfectly insulated. It's more comfy, we spend less on energy (this winter we have only slightly exceeded our monthly bill allowance once unlike last year where that happened every month (and one month by a significant amount) with our gas boiler at the same allowance rate) and it's quiet! Best thing we ever did.. now onto Solar install later this month.
I’m so pleased for John the home owner. All people want is a system that works as it should. I applaud you heat geeks and so glad to see Skill Builder channel being onboard too now. All good friends here now there’s a proper understanding of a proper heat pump install.
I am not 'on board' I still stand by my original comments. Heat pumps are not the future for the majority of homes which currently have combi boilers. If you can keep your boiler and install a hybrid you have the best of both worlds. The government needs to get real about this rather than trying to force change.
Great stuff ! well done team. We recently had a Vaillant heat pump installed in our house ( 1900 mid terrace Hackney replacing 12 YO Combi). With the new Ovo heat tariff we are spending less and much warmer - can't recommend enough. Needs to be more work done on solutions for smaller flats with combi boilers. We avoided all the pipe re working and disruption by locating a Sun Amp water solution under kitchen counter right beside the existing pipework for water. (plug & play) The heat pump pipe work came in more or less where the combi was so we saved so much hassle. I reckon the future of this tech for existing combi users is an under the counter solution ( akin to existing footprint for white goods) combining a small material exchange water solution and heat pump with just a smaller / lighter fan system outside. 🤘🏼⚡
Smashing video, showing Brits at our best. Top job team! I’m a 58YO electrical engineer who has DIY renovated two homes in my time, I am a firm believer in the old adages…. “Less is more” and “Keep it simple”.
I really enjoyed this presentation and it confirms my worst suspicions that there are a lot of people installing heat pumps who do not understand basics. I cannot understand why a system needs to have the heating curve entered manually, surely in this age of AI the system should be able to self calibrate and even work out the R value.
This video is great and the whole heat pump journey between Skillbuilder and Heat Geek has been very interesting. But this whole saga just illustrates that the vast majority of UK homeowners are not getting this kind of service. It is pretty clear any decent heating engineer is inundated with work. The whole cost aspect with grants, MCS etc is another can of worms that basically creates a lot more problems than it solves. Anyway, good steps in the right direction and I’m sure Adam & Roger will continue to improve things for the general homeowners.
The government needs to take the lack of trained engineers into account by stopping payments to 'unqualified' engineers. Its a 'win win' for the new Labour government, should they have the time to watch the video's and then take a view.
Love how you guys with polar opposite views came together and are putting this heat pump topic to rights. I always knew heat geeks would prevail. Now where are the bloody heat geek uploads I’m getting very impatient 😂 Totally hooked from day 1 with. The best videos out there by a country mile 🔥🔥🔥🔥
I would have never thought hvac could be such an entertaining show. Thumbs up for the expertise and good humour of going about it. Waiting for you in Romania for a roadshow :)
All that equipment leaving has made enough space for John to move in his beloved drum kit and bagpipes, which he now plays day and night without the irritating background noise of the previous heat pump.
I feel like half the comments here that are angry are because they feel like we shouldn’t value a heating engineers expertise, skill and time, they just want a cheap solution someone unskilled can hang on a wall - this feels like a very British phenomenon - one thats’s a problem across the building industry.
Well done Roger for another interesting video. First let me say that I am in your "camp" with regard to ASHP, I spent (far to) many years in the heating industry starting with normal domestic to very large domestic and commercial systems, and I fell in love with the ASHP technology in the 1980's and gave some presentations on the basics of how they work. I started a company to focus on ASHP and became MCS qualified, it has been downhill ever since, mainly due to outrageous claims by some manufacturers, not Vaillant who are my favourite company for domestic and small commercial boilers, and the real life costs of installing a system which will meet the clients expectations. Forgive me if this turns into a rant, but it's not meant to be, it's just that there are a number of points which I think need clarifying. 1. Most comparisons made between gas boilers and ASHP's are not accurate i.e. all the ASHP systems have weather comp. but the gas sytems don't. I've been a big fan of weather comp for years, although it is a struggle to get people to understand them. So an "A" rated gas boiler , with weather comp is much more efficient than the examples used. 2. To get the SCOP quoted then the whole system has to be designed to run at a low temp which is great for UFH, but UFH is very expensive to install on the 1st & 2nd floors, so the radiators often need upgrading. 3. Looking at this eaxample where are you going to be able to install a cylinder of that size in the average UK home. 4. DHW needs a flow temp. >60 Deg.C so the ASHP will not be efficient at that temp. and may even need to use backup immersion heaters. 5. Why have they removed all of the expansion vessels, is it now an open vented installation? 6. The Vaillant units are vey quiet, but this may change overtime, wear and tear, also when every house in the country has one (not going to happen!). 7 If a client has an "A" rated gas boiler, then I would make this a hybrid system. 8. The Energy Saving Trust are saying that the annual savings of ASHP are so little that there is no payback period, so the only reason to, voluntarily, install one is that your deluded into believing that your are helping to "save the palnet", there is no such thing as carbon free energy production and distribution. Certainly not wind and solar. 9. How we going to replace all of the very large boilers in communal systems, flats, hotels, hospitals etc. 10. 60% of electicity is, and will remain for the foreseable future, produced by burning natural gas, BG proved back in the late 1960's that using gas to produce electricity was a crazy waste of a valuable resource, this is due to the generating and distribution losses. Finally two observations, why didn't you use the B.I.G adjacent to the unit, condensate soakaways need to be a minimum distance from concrete foundations, and please tell the plumber that he shouldn't be using glandnut (pump) pliers on brass nuts! I look forward to seeing you at the Installer Live, that's if they'll let in a retired heating engineer!
An excellent Heat Pump rescue! Adam and Roger should rescue some more bodged Heat Pump installations as part of an ongoing series! Real world Heat Geek training!
Loved watching this love affair between you and Adam blossom 😆 but big respect, from saying heatpumps are terrible to being open enough to see that they can work when correctly designed and installed. Well done.
I never said, not once, that heat pumps are terrible. I said the government idea of bribing people to get rid of gas boilers is a terrible idea because heat pumps will not work well enough in our poorly insulated buildings. The fact that we added 300mm of loft insulation to this house proves the point. We get countless emails from people who have had heat pumps installed and their bills have rocketed and their homes are cold. I never doubted that they can work. You will notice this is one of a new breed of heat pumps with better refrigerant which works better at low temperatures. All my life I have had people shooting me down in flames and then gradually doing the very thing I suggested. They did not tweak this heat pump to make it work, the scrapped it along with a lot of other junk. The home owner spent £18,000 on this system and, if it hadn't been for Heat Geeks he would be running his gas boiler. If this system works out cheaper than a gas boiler I will be delighted but it just shows that the government is shelling out tax payers money with no effective controls in place. That is a very familiar tale.
Just watched part one and commented, just found part two, awesome and only a few mins in!! Even more things now in this video that hit a nerve at our end! We still have the gas boiler in as the backup and daren't lose it, think another of our issues is radiator balancing and the outdoor sensor or settings. We need to speak to one of you guys after watching this, thanks again and back to the video!
Fun series of videos. One things it confirms is there is a difference between an installer who fully understands the system and one who just has general knowledge about it. Given how big the need for installers will be, there will likely be more customers experiencing OK installs rather than great installs. A decade or so down the road that might be different. Thank you for the video.
A decade down the road it will be different. We will have abandoned the dogmatic approach and restored consumer choice. Rishi has just announced that we will need new gas fired power stations to give us enough electricity to charge our cars and run our heat pumps.
Just one comment regarding the noise from the previous LG unit, you can replace the fan motors relatively cheaply and this will eradicate the bearing noise. I just replaced both fan motors on our 16kw Samsung unit for £320, it's a very simple DIY job, done in 1 hour. Our unit is 9 years old and the bearings had not failed, I did this as preventative maintenance, just saying that bearing noise is not a reason to dump your heat pump. If the heat pump is not level and that is contributing to bearing wear, just level it! I know this particular system had to be replaced as it was a bad install, but a bearing noise should not be the driver for replacing a heat pump.
How many people are willing to risk wrecking their heating over a "simple DIY job"? You know that price goes up to thousands per motor, _if_ you can get anyone to show up and have a go.
@@robinbennett5994 £2000???? I'm not sure I believe that. Why should motors for the LG be more than they are for a Samsung? Probably made in the same factory
Love this, we have been getting commercial clients to duct extractors from kitchens onto the back of heat pumps to great effect, sometimes it's the simple things that make all the difference!
Just make sure you keep the condenser fins free from the inevitable grease which will attract dirt and debris. This may degrade efficiency if not kept on top of.
It would be interesting to go back next year to see how much the real costs to run is in reality and what it has been like to live with as a retro fit to an older house .
Really informative, I’m at the investigation stage and have had a quote from an experienced installer. Will be asking more informed questions as we go through the design stage
I've got Tommy on board for my install, probably later this year - just waiting for the Heatgeek Design & quote to be finalised. Might have to play fast & loose with Planning requirements as we are a terraced house and the 1m rule + doors and windows is killing the positioning - keeping fingers crossed! Good to see all the experts working as one unit for benefit of the client!
Great vid. To think this came about because Roger assessed heat pumps, wrongly and rightly, and then Heat Geek guys saw it then responded. Then a great team up. *Keep it up fellas.* All of you who were there.
Typical, many of us can't get hold of a trade for love nor money, and John gets a whole houseful turning up 😅 I think Roger might be softening up to the idea of heat pumps... just a teeny bit. Its good to know that they can work when installed properly - will be interesting to see how it works out for John after all his troubles.
Thanks for the video. I quite enjoyed watching all the effort that's going into sorting this installation out. I would still like a heat pump despite all the complications but unfortunately my wife doesn't. So that's that! Mind you I would draw the line at putting my classic car outside under a cover just to make room for all the gubbins in my garage.
Brilliant to see this, I have a pretty good ASHP system, but I think it could have been even better with heat geek expertise, but I had it put in just before heat geeks really kicked off, their installs just have such great attention to detail.
Jeez, I wish I had you all here! A couple of months ago I contacted one of only two Heek Geek-trained/approved engineers here in the far north of Scotland (both of who are about 100 miles away!) and paid him what was a very reasonable amount, considering he had a near two hour drive at each end of his visit, to look at my installation, fitted by McInnes heating engineers as part of the Scottish Warmer Homes/Warm Works/Scottish Gov initiative to get heat pumps fitted, especially where solid fuel had been the previous system. He analysed my installation, indicated one particular 'problem', which we largely sorted during his time here. While this has made little difference to the amount of electricity being consumed, I now have every part of the house toasty as, hmm, very fresh toast! However, it seems my pump is probably over-spec-ed, so I need to have every emitter in the house fully open. I am still experimenting with reducing the heat curve, 0.05 at a time, to try and find the sweet spot. John, the engineer, suggested as a possible longer term fix (to reduce cycling as the volume of my system re-pump is only just sufficient when all rads are open) that a volumiser vessel could be fitted at the return end, just before the pipework returns to the heat pump, but that keeping all rads open all the time my system is just about optimal. BUT - I can already tell, from checking data off the controller, and watching the electricity meter into the house, that my original SCOP of 2.5 is not going to be improved on. 1 kWh in, 2 kWh of heat out at freezing outdoor temp, nearer 2.5 at 10+/-, and 3 when in the teens C. SCOP of 2.5, but with more of the house toasty (I don't need or want to heat the spare room, but it seems the system is more efficient that way). I have the older iteration Arotherm ie pre-Plus, 11 kW unit, which when you check its spec, it shows the lowest COP of all that range. I am still quids in compared to solid fuel - by a factor of at least two, maybe even three, my system was fitted as fuel prices had just started to rocket so it's hard to make a direct comparison - paying about £105 a month averaged through the year at current prices, for a lovely warm house, and no ashes to tip out daily, with all the heft of getting coal and wood in, hard enough for an arthritic fella in his 60s... But a SCOP of over 3? It's not happening here folks. Any suggestions, should you have got this far... Cheers, keep up the good work (-;)~
Is the heat pump running 24/7, if so then that £105 a month isn't quite so bad if that's @ 28p/kWh ? I have a Daikin 6kW been running five weeks 24/7 with me trying to find best weather compensation curve, two bedroom semi, modest insulation. System is 7 new radiators & plumbing, with 27 litre volumiser. Flow typically 32-36C. N.E Scotland where four nights below zero in past five weeks, tonight 3.5C (average for month 6.5C hourly average). I have set schedule temperature on Hive thermostat very low allowing the rooms to sit at the weather compensated 'design' temperatures without any interference from thermostat calling for heat. Certainly the DHW SCOP on my Mixergy cylinder appears to be in the 2.5-3 range as expected when heating DHW cylinder to 50C (too early to tell yet). So if heating a lot of hot water, or keeping steady temperature on DHW using immersion heater would certainly drag overall scop down, perhaps unnecessarily. My overall SCOP for heating since installation shows 4.2, electric meter seems to tally with 'typical' usage of 11-14 kWh per day. living room 21-22C, bathroom similar, other rooms 18-19C, and my bedroom 16C (only one throttled down using TRV). All other TRVs fully open for max' flow rates. This is pretty consistent irrespective of external temperature. I plan at some point to add monitoring to give me a better picture. At present relying on system energy in and heat out figures. Running cost for me is @ £109/month for heat pump.
Excellent job and well engineered using the minimum number of components to achieve both efficiency and reliability. I find on commercial systems its difficult to avoid buffer vessels.
Why do you deduce I am on board? I still don't see them as the answer for the average British home. A system such as this will set you back around £13,000 after the grant, compared to a gas boiler at £3,000. You need to run this 24/7 where a gas boiler can be switched on and off. We will see if this system proves cheaper to run than switching a boiler on and off when you need it. Heat Geeks did a great job and I am sure it will serve John well but he was warm enough with his £2,000 gas boiler.
@@SkillBuilderThis is the key thing. Just had a new boiler installed £3000. Got the flow temps turned down and weather comp. Would never make the difference up.
OK so you were more open about the install so I took it you had been won over. But then if not let us pursue the debate. We need to decide what is the average British home and why they aren't suitable. I think it comes down to suspended floors and air leaky fabric in pre 1960 (?) homes. In reality that needs to be tackled as much as anything. It is now clear that the gas network won't exist by 2040/50. Hydrogen has been ruled out by the govt, the penny dropped that it is too dangerous and leaky for domestic use. The cost of checking for iron pipework in the 'average British House' will outweigh the cost of upgrading them to make them more comfortable with heat pumps. In truth, all those 19303s semis need to be refurbished every time someone moves out. Rip out the chimneys that take up so much room, get the walls insulated, aerogel on 9 inch walls where they exist (as they did in my West Wickham home) and seal up the floors. Either fill them in with insulation or seal them up another way. Then you won't even need a heat pump! And heat pumps don't need to run continuously... my ufh acts like a giant storage heater in my kitchen and for much of the year the heat pump runs only on cheap rate electricity overnight. We will need to get used to switching them off 16:00 to 19:00 to help the Grid out and no one considers a mix of heat pump and storage heater, This might be a good efficient combination in some homes.@@SkillBuilder
@@SkillBuilder You're spot on, this system has been fully optimised by professionals and is still costing considerably more a day a day to run than a modern gas combi. It's not even that cold right now, just wait till we see negative temps and watch that efficiency fall through the floor and the cost to run shoot up. The smartest thing this customer has done is keep the boiler. Thank God. He can strip out that heat pump and hopefully make back something towards the original installation costs by selling it.
@@SkillBuilderexactly Roger. I am out most of the day and the gas boiler heats my flat in 20 min when I come back at 8pm. I don’t live in a big house with tons of unused space and a big basement to fit the warp core or the Enterprise (plus those huge outdoor fans that will be soon affected by the weather). I live in a flat in a 3-story-building that I bought working most of my life. Why do my taxes have to be used to pay these rich men with their new fad? Please, do another updated rant to give us justice. Everyone is brainwashed every day and your free voice is needed to counterbalance it.
Great that the home owner is getting all this help. I wonder how many other home owners will get this kind of support if their heat pump does not work properly. And what is the cost of all this work with no Skill builder around?
More importantly it’s knowing who to trust , you don’t made paying for proper work , but if you don’t know then that is when such as heat geek guarantee comes in , problem is there are not enough of them to go round .
This is a really uplifting video. What I don't get is do many heat pump people saying: "you should just take the boiler out." People don't have faith yet, it is better to encourage people to trust the heat pump with the reassurance that the known quantity of the boiler is still there.
This has answered a lot of questions for me on heat pump installation & how it should be done , i do have a theft concern though & wonder though how secure the actual unit is being outdoors compared to a combi boiler 🤔
Love that they opted for r290, enviromentally friendly and efficient, especially for low temp systems such as underfloor heating. I buffer tank could have been kept as a volume extension tank, but the house is fairly high, de de-icing will probably work well anyway.
Lovely work! Q.E.D. (as already shown by the data). Congratulations to all. One observation => Looks like 50% or more of the energy is consumed overnight. Hmmm...
It tends to be cooler at night. If you could increase the heat input in the daytime and store it with good insulation the night set back could be lowered. Ideally you could turn it off
Great job I agree, but all too complicated like a modern car. Just on, off, timed, that’s all that’s needed. All the people that have this fitted have to go on a compulsory course to be able to work it, but their eyes glaze over within the first 5 mins. We have mains gas, it’s a third of the price or more per KWh than electric. If I was building a new house then maybe that’s the best thing to do. But older existing houses, well? My mother had air to air fitted some years ago, mainly for the aircon in the summer. After 10 years it stopped working. Two different engineers came and both concluded the main outside unit was u/s, no spares available, because of the refrigerant, the whole system was scrap. It never got replaced. I believe this will still be the case, so much to go wrong with these systems. Leading to ‘ oh sorry they don’t make your unit anymore’
@ 24:12 I kinda like Mitsubishi air to air ac’s … My favorite I seen so far is a Hitachi multisplit - just 2 wires from the indor to outdoor, 22 volts + data on the same wires … + nicely made electronic boards… With Daikin is a love/hate relationship 😅 there is no perfect AC
Just looked at the recording so far for the last couple of months. Cop of more than 4.5 that’s super cool (warm). Even without any time of use tariff you would be at around 6.5p/kwh.
I thought that at first but the standing charges for a gas supply are now very expensive. Given this customers history It would be worth it in the short term but long term I would get rid of the gas boiler (and gas supply) even if it means changing from a gas hob to an induction hob. The savings over not paying the gas supply standing charges will be material to the overall efficiency of running costs.
I suspect that many of us who are very green to this ( I admit I am!) will be appalled at the amount of equipment not to mention the spaghetti pipework to heat a house and provide hot water, compared to my condensing boiler, radiators and hot water tank ( in a very useful airing cupboard). No wonder it costs the earth to install! And listening to one of the installers, it looks as if finding a reliable installer will be like finding the end of the rainbow! Who knows who to believe, or what guarantees are worth the paper they are printed on - if they even are...... Like John, getting a cowboy looks easy.
We need more like this. Honest people withthe knowledge to purpose design . None of the fraudulent bullshit same are offering. Just good engineering ,experience and good workmanship with simplified systems. Not over complicated to make more money.
Bravo!! this is British know how being at the forefront of the future..rather than pissing and moaning, people need to start to see the good in these..the future is beginning finally..great to see lads
A great collaboration and I hope it will go someway to help prove that heat pumps can work. Will look forward to future updates from John and I wouldn't mind a breakdown of the graphs on the dashboard and what they are showing. One other point that was raised was the difference between a Heat Geek design/install and that provided by BG/Octopus. I have plugged my details into the Octopus website and it spat out a number but it didn't really have any real detailed information about my property so I can't see how they can commit to a number unless they over quote.
Really helpful video. Please can you produce some more ? A2A and also some of the smaller units from Octopus etc. Smaller house installations would be good to see too. I really liked the fan heater idea Roger mentioned.- sizing the system for 95 % of the year and having some additional cheap resistance heaters - for 5% of the year and I guess backup heating should HP have a problem. Probably wall panel heaters with central wifi control would be better than actual fan heaters though.
I may be two days late but this literally has been the best thing I’ve watched in a long time! Amazing from everyone involved and shows that decent people still exist…. Good luck to John and hopefully he can kick the gas guzzler to the kerb before long.
23:20 is an issue I've been thinking about a lot. For one thing we need systems that come as a complete package with pump/tank/battery/inverter that is well insulated and attaches to your outside wall in a nice, neat, probably modular package, which will solve the houses problem - not only do we have a problem with no space to put a heat store, but we have a problem with nowhere to put inverters and batteries too - you could even recover heat from the batteries and inverter if adventurous enough, there's some prior art for any manufacturer who wants it. For my house I wanted MHVR anyway and I'm very seriously looking at not air to air, but I'm looking at exhaust air heat pumps - they're much lesser known but they sort of combine the benefits of an MHVR with a heat pump and _can_ produce hot water. I'm quite lucky because my house is only 2 years old and super efficient, else a system like that might not work, but I think it might work for me - my house is three stories and whilst efficient has a problem with warm air from the ground floor rising to the top floor and I think a system like that will have the benefit of moving heat back down through the house. Apartment buildings are a more complex problem and I honestly thing that aside from systems more like what are common in the US where the heat pump is attached to a cylinder and probably vented to outside, communal systems might be the only way forward. Also! Somebody really needs to invent a wedge-shaped thermal store of literally any kind that I can put under my stairs, plskthx. Literally wasted space..
22:40 😂 This was the most entertaining part of the video 😂😊 But the whole video is cool You don’t need tv when you can get so much fun on RUclips + you can learn something 😊
![Twenty One Pilots - The Line (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Audio]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XCz7WUotXs8/mqdefault.jpg)
Aussie plumber and plumbing trainer here. How edifying it is to see qualified and knowledgable tradies at work, getting the job done in an orderly and professional manner. Well done boys.
It was an amazing experience to be involved in this installation. Well done to everyone who made it happen and to the homeowners for putting up with us 😃
Happy to be a fly on the wall in this campaign
Good effort Mike and all involved 👏
I noticed that you have removed a sensor pocket on the new heat geek cylinder and replaced it with a expansion release valve. Why do you have an expansion release Valve and a high temp. and pressure release valve on the cylinder??? Why not just the high temp and pressure release valve and leave the top thermostat pocket?
I have to admit, I never warmed to Adam at first, I mistook his passion as aggression, but now I can see his passion as a real asset to the industry. Thank you to all the plumbers, tradesmen, and suppliers who donated their time and equipment to get this system working.
I would call it passionate aggression. He fights his corner for sure.
@@SkillBuilderAggressive passion?!
Adam is a proper legend. The guy single handlely change the industry.
Like him or not he’s written his legacy and it can’t be denied.
it's a common issue for the autistics to mistake passion for aggression
I have no idea why anyone would go anywhere else when wanting a heat pump installed. A heat geek elite installation is leagues above the rest of the crap out there! Pay cheap pay twice!
Well done lads keep up the amazing work
Unless it is a ground source heat pump and DEEP it is worthless in the UK no matter if Zeus himself fitted it
cuz people trying novel tech with no knowledge of it arent known for their intilligence, plus heat geek sounds scammy as hell(would bet money it is), guys just seem insincere and far too charismatic.
This was a brilliant watch. Such a positive experience. John getting his system sorted, Roger questioning and being the critical voice and the Heat Geek team smashing it in 1.5 days. Awesome to watch a team of heating engineers at the top of their game. Great work everyone.
Yep, all he needed to get something sorted was a group of otherwise-hard-to-get youtuber professionals. Seems like an accessible sort of tech....
“Minus 2 , the depths of winter “ @ 14.41
About 12 highly trained people doing a day and half Install is what the average Joe is going to get?
@@Steve-j7z cool username and you've completely missed the point
@@imnothere220 missed the point, it's specifically about making sure you get the right installer
Wow! The all star RUclipsrs fixing this house. Love it! Warm regards from Holland
It was great fun being there. Thanks for having me.
The house is nice and toasty too.
Can we rip the boiler out please John 😊
Also thank you both for all the tea n coffee
Great to meet you Tom, keep in touch.
@@SkillBuilder
Nice to meet you to Roger, happy to help anytime 👍
Really good video series this, top job.
Tom plumb! Love it! 😂
Great work by all of the lads there. Really good to see fellow heat geeks coming together to show how it should be done.
One point I did notice though, you used copper press onto the stainless connections off the unit. You really shouldn't be doing that as they will react, you need to use a brass fitting to transition from stainless to copper
Tom you're a star - it was great having you here -and the start of a longer term relationship given your my closest Heat Geek 🙂
Well done heat geek and all the engineers who helped, a great result.
Rip it all out - and install much less!
Looking forward to showing what Heat Geek installs can do. Prediction for this install is that it will end the year well in excess of 400% efficiency! - Follow the live link to see how it’s getting on in the description.
Thanks for having us over Roger and Dylan! Biggest collaboration in home energy right now.. Looking forward to our fight in Birmingham 😡 🥊
My friend is a pensioner. He has already ditched a heat ing system for this useless heat pump. He had to fit a lot of special radiators etc. He now cannot justify a new pump and system at £10 K
People like my friend will not be installing another heat pump unless what has already paid ~£10000 for is made to work correctly. That's the problem. He tells others about his problem and the result is what you see in the comments
@@stephenrichards5386He may not need a whole new system. Has he had someone reputable actually come and look at it?
@@stephenrichards5386Given that they've just done a video replacing a crap install and have talked about it at length, that's not exactly news to them.
I think Roger's shifted his position on heat pumps over the last few years (in terms of their viability when put in by a capable installer), but his point about the patchy national training quality is still totally on point.
Until the government gets certification & training standards sorted, billions will be wasted on poor installs. I live in Scotland and there are very few heat geeks near me, and I wouldn't trust a random engineer to do it -- too many things to go wrong. Heat pumps are definitely the future, but we've got a long way to go!
Great vid guys. I love to see you succeed where others say say can't be done. Took a look at the CoP and it's coming in at just under 3.9 right now. I'm sure it'll improve, but certainly borderline considering what you guarantee.
That alton and jones guy is the sort of person you want working on your place, what a solid guy.
You are not wrong. I would take any of these guys without hesitation. My neighbour just called out British Gas under their beakdown cover. He spent an hour there and failed to spot the problem. Something was tripping the RCD.
He went away saying it was a mystery of science. I went in and it took me less than five minutes to find the fault.
Video coming soon.
Amazing! Wonderful collaboration. The volunteers were absolutely awesome and my hat goes off to them. I pray that decision makers in government are watching this channel and reaching out to Roger and Heat Geeks rather than big contractors who also happen to be Tory party donors and will subcontract work to bodge job merchants; this series has been a masterclass in quality workmanship, trade education and customer service.
Thanks to everyone involved.
Brilliant!
Probably the biggest smile I've had on my face watching a RUclips video, some of the best ASHP installers all knocking it out together, must be a proud moment for Adam, such a great reward for the years spent bringing these guys to such a high level of credibility.
So Roger when are you getting one.
Hi Derek
I was offered one for nothing but I like the flexibility of a gas boiler than I can turn up and down and don't have to run 24/7. We switched our boiler on at 5 pm today. We didn't need it on during the day. it will go off at 10 p.m and the house will cool down to a comfortable sleeping temperature. John's house stays at the same temperature day and night. If you like that then get a heat pump but I don't.
@@SkillBuilder Hi, surely the individual rooms (like bedrooms) can be kept at different temperatures from the rest of the house? Or do you mean you have your bedroom warm in the day, and cold at night? Great video btw.
@@SkillBuilder So how are you going to decarbonise Roger? You'll have to eventually. Cooler bedrooms is the main reason for bedrooms downstairs and living accomodation upstrairs, which isn't very common in the UK, but you could probably do it in quite a lot of houses if you wanted to. We just don't heat our bedroom at all but it doesn't stop the living room being at a nice temperature. Seems to me that's independent of the heat source.
@@SkillBuilder "John's house stays at the same temperature day and night". There's no real reason for that to happen though, unless it is his preference. A setback temperature at nigh-time allows for different night-time temps.
Smile ?
I was laughing my bollox off 😂
I love the collaboration on this, great to see with everyone working together to learn, educate and help each other. Brilliant and great to watch.
Thank god experienced, skilled, knowledgeable and conscientious men are having a real debate on this matter. The industry needs more of this.
Brilliant to see experts and suppliers coming together to very publicly prove heat pumps are a good thing. This will soon be one of the most watched systems in the UK. Well done to all!
To John's neighbour: sleep well :)
And if you are the victim of a bad install, you will really be left up s*** creek paying to have a team of experts dissect your current system and rebuild it. I think I will wait until the government artificially makes Gas too expensive or my current gas boiler to be against "regulations" until I get my heat pump installed thank you :)
@@chunkymonkey55555 By that time, there will be plenty redundant gas fitters who will happily chuck in the new gas boiler you surreptitiously concealed beneath the stairs.
@@markrainford1219I had a boiler switched out on a house about a year ago, guy was in and out in half a day, since then, no problems, nothing once, :) Apparently according to an advert I saw on the TV the other day, we "all have a great big desire for change" Personally as long as it heats the place, I couldn't give a s***. :)
Great experience and pleasure to work with all involved on the project. 😃
Looking forward our next heat pump install
Thanks again for coming down and giving your valuable time. Hopefully we can do more collaborations and this time visit you on your home turf.
This has been an amazing series, genuinely pleased for the homeowner and in awe of the HG's who volunteered their time, thanks to all involved for moving the industry forward and providing entertainment along the way
Absolutely , comedy gold 😂
What’s also great is to see Adam and Roger collaborating and the fruits from it.
They could easily have taken their early interaction in a much different direction. Just shows how maturely discussing a point of contention trumps the ‘us vs them’ cult approaches so prevalent online today.
Great to see a positive result from this story.. we had a heat pump installed 10 months ago, in a 1970s house which was not perfectly insulated. It's more comfy, we spend less on energy (this winter we have only slightly exceeded our monthly bill allowance once unlike last year where that happened every month (and one month by a significant amount) with our gas boiler at the same allowance rate) and it's quiet! Best thing we ever did.. now onto Solar install later this month.
I’m so pleased for John the home owner. All people want is a system that works as it should. I applaud you heat geeks and so glad to see Skill Builder channel being onboard too now. All good friends here now there’s a proper understanding of a proper heat pump install.
I am not 'on board' I still stand by my original comments. Heat pumps are not the future for the majority of homes which currently have combi boilers. If you can keep your boiler and install a hybrid you have the best of both worlds. The government needs to get real about this rather than trying to force change.
@@SkillBuilderway to ruin a nice moment there😅
Great stuff ! well done team. We recently had a Vaillant heat pump installed in our house ( 1900 mid terrace Hackney replacing 12 YO Combi). With the new Ovo heat tariff we are spending less and much warmer - can't recommend enough. Needs to be more work done on solutions for smaller flats with combi boilers. We avoided all the pipe re working and disruption by locating a Sun Amp water solution under kitchen counter right beside the existing pipework for water. (plug & play) The heat pump pipe work came in more or less where the combi was so we saved so much hassle. I reckon the future of this tech for existing combi users is an under the counter solution ( akin to existing footprint for white goods) combining a small material exchange water solution and heat pump with just a smaller / lighter fan system outside. 🤘🏼⚡
Smashing video, showing Brits at our best. Top job team! I’m a 58YO electrical engineer who has DIY renovated two homes in my time, I am a firm believer in the old adages…. “Less is more” and “Keep it simple”.
Looks like a brilliant job and great to see everyone smiling and getting stuck in
top blokes ... nice to see skilled guys with passion . very rare these days
Great seeing all working together,and the tea flowing.
It's really great how you 2 have collaborated. I thought when you first met there was going to be a punch up. 🤕
Next time! We are going to Installer Live to thrash it out.
Everybody stepping up to the plate... Awesome Job..👊
John has won the jackpot here - win win🥳🥳
John deserves a bit of good luck after suffering huge losses for years
Certainly in the short term and then long term, hopefully.
Only took 7 years 😂
I really enjoyed this presentation and it confirms my worst suspicions that there are a lot of people installing heat pumps who do not understand basics. I cannot understand why a system needs to have the heating curve entered manually, surely in this age of AI the system should be able to self calibrate and even work out the R value.
The curve very much depends on how well insulated the house is and that is something that an experienced person must judge.
This video is great and the whole heat pump journey between Skillbuilder and Heat Geek has been very interesting. But this whole saga just illustrates that the vast majority of UK homeowners are not getting this kind of service. It is pretty clear any decent heating engineer is inundated with work. The whole cost aspect with grants, MCS etc is another can of worms that basically creates a lot more problems than it solves. Anyway, good steps in the right direction and I’m sure Adam & Roger will continue to improve things for the general homeowners.
The government needs to take the lack of trained engineers into account by stopping payments to 'unqualified' engineers. Its a 'win win' for the new Labour government, should they have the time to watch the video's and then take a view.
Love how you guys with polar opposite views came together and are putting this heat pump topic to rights. I always knew heat geeks would prevail.
Now where are the bloody heat geek uploads I’m getting very impatient 😂
Totally hooked from day 1 with. The best videos out there by a country mile 🔥🔥🔥🔥
This is what I love about RUclips in how unscripted documentaries like this emerge from the genius of human social interaction.
Great to watch skilled engineers doing a great, neat job. I wish the home owner well and I hope his house is now warm.
I would have never thought hvac could be such an entertaining show. Thumbs up for the expertise and good humour of going about it. Waiting for you in Romania for a roadshow :)
This is just superb!! Great to see at least one person getting their bodge soeted out.
Great vid seeing a bunch of youtube heat engineers coming together and the live stats are looking impressive! Great job.
All that equipment leaving has made enough space for John to move in his beloved drum kit and bagpipes, which he now plays day and night without the irritating background noise of the previous heat pump.
I feel like half the comments here that are angry are because they feel like we shouldn’t value a heating engineers expertise, skill and time, they just want a cheap solution someone unskilled can hang on a wall - this feels like a very British phenomenon - one thats’s a problem across the building industry.
Heat pumps are cheap everywhere else in the world. Spot on about UK engineering. They are all capable!
Well done Roger for another interesting video. First let me say that I am in your "camp" with regard to ASHP, I spent (far to) many years in the heating industry starting with normal domestic to very large domestic and commercial systems, and I fell in love with the ASHP technology in the 1980's and gave some presentations on the basics of how they work. I started a company to focus on ASHP and became MCS qualified, it has been downhill ever since, mainly due to outrageous claims by some manufacturers, not Vaillant who are my favourite company for domestic and small commercial boilers, and the real life costs of installing a system which will meet the clients expectations. Forgive me if this turns into a rant, but it's not meant to be, it's just that there are a number of points which I think need clarifying.
1. Most comparisons made between gas boilers and ASHP's are not accurate i.e. all the ASHP systems have weather comp. but the gas sytems don't. I've been a big fan of weather comp for years, although it is a struggle to get people to understand them. So an "A" rated gas boiler , with weather comp is much more efficient than the examples used.
2. To get the SCOP quoted then the whole system has to be designed to run at a low temp which is great for UFH, but UFH is very expensive to install on the 1st & 2nd floors, so the radiators often need upgrading.
3. Looking at this eaxample where are you going to be able to install a cylinder of that size in the average UK home.
4. DHW needs a flow temp. >60 Deg.C so the ASHP will not be efficient at that temp. and may even need to use backup immersion heaters.
5. Why have they removed all of the expansion vessels, is it now an open vented installation?
6. The Vaillant units are vey quiet, but this may change overtime, wear and tear, also when every house in the country has one (not going to happen!).
7 If a client has an "A" rated gas boiler, then I would make this a hybrid system.
8. The Energy Saving Trust are saying that the annual savings of ASHP are so little that there is no payback period, so the only reason to, voluntarily, install one is that your deluded into believing that your are helping to "save the palnet", there is no such thing as carbon free energy production and distribution. Certainly not wind and solar.
9. How we going to replace all of the very large boilers in communal systems, flats, hotels, hospitals etc.
10. 60% of electicity is, and will remain for the foreseable future, produced by burning natural gas, BG proved back in the late 1960's that using gas to produce electricity was a crazy waste of a valuable resource, this is due to the generating and distribution losses.
Finally two observations, why didn't you use the B.I.G adjacent to the unit, condensate soakaways need to be a minimum distance from concrete foundations, and please tell the plumber that he shouldn't be using glandnut (pump) pliers on brass nuts!
I look forward to seeing you at the Installer Live, that's if they'll let in a retired heating engineer!
An excellent Heat Pump rescue! Adam and Roger should rescue some more bodged Heat Pump installations as part of an ongoing series! Real world Heat Geek training!
Loved watching this love affair between you and Adam blossom 😆 but big respect, from saying heatpumps are terrible to being open enough to see that they can work when correctly designed and installed. Well done.
I never said, not once, that heat pumps are terrible. I said the government idea of bribing people to get rid of gas boilers is a terrible idea because heat pumps will not work well enough in our poorly insulated buildings.
The fact that we added 300mm of loft insulation to this house proves the point.
We get countless emails from people who have had heat pumps installed and their bills have rocketed and their homes are cold.
I never doubted that they can work. You will notice this is one of a new breed of heat pumps with better refrigerant which works better at low temperatures. All my life I have had people shooting me down in flames and then gradually doing the very thing I suggested. They did not tweak this heat pump to make it work, the scrapped it along with a lot of other junk. The home owner spent £18,000 on this system and, if it hadn't been for Heat Geeks he would be running his gas boiler. If this system works out cheaper than a gas boiler I will be delighted but it just shows that the government is shelling out tax payers money with no effective controls in place. That is a very familiar tale.
This has been a great series, well done all. Interesting watching how many kWh this is getting through since install though.
Heat geek and skill builders wow proper video . Well done guys. OK I will book tickets.
Just watched part one and commented, just found part two, awesome and only a few mins in!! Even more things now in this video that hit a nerve at our end! We still have the gas boiler in as the backup and daren't lose it, think another of our issues is radiator balancing and the outdoor sensor or settings.
We need to speak to one of you guys after watching this, thanks again and back to the video!
Fun series of videos. One things it confirms is there is a difference between an installer who fully understands the system and one who just has general knowledge about it. Given how big the need for installers will be, there will likely be more customers experiencing OK installs rather than great installs. A decade or so down the road that might be different. Thank you for the video.
A decade down the road it will be different. We will have abandoned the dogmatic approach and restored consumer choice. Rishi has just announced that we will need new gas fired power stations to give us enough electricity to charge our cars and run our heat pumps.
A great video, thanks. Also to John the customer to stick with the heat pump. Should be on main tv
You guys are absolutely brilliant - i really enjoyed this vid. Great job
Just one comment regarding the noise from the previous LG unit, you can replace the fan motors relatively cheaply and this will eradicate the bearing noise. I just replaced both fan motors on our 16kw Samsung unit for £320, it's a very simple DIY job, done in 1 hour. Our unit is 9 years old and the bearings had not failed, I did this as preventative maintenance, just saying that bearing noise is not a reason to dump your heat pump. If the heat pump is not level and that is contributing to bearing wear, just level it! I know this particular system had to be replaced as it was a bad install, but a bearing noise should not be the driver for replacing a heat pump.
How many people are willing to risk wrecking their heating over a "simple DIY job"? You know that price goes up to thousands per motor, _if_ you can get anyone to show up and have a go.
This came up in the comments on a previous video, and IIRC replacement motors for that particular unit would have been £2000 !
@@rogerborgHe's giving folk information, and they can decide whether it's right for them in terms of the risk / reward :)
@@robinbennett5994 £2000???? I'm not sure I believe that. Why should motors for the LG be more than they are for a Samsung? Probably made in the same factory
@@rogerborg remove a few screws, unplug a plug, fit a few screws and plug in a new plug. What's hard about that?
Love this, we have been getting commercial clients to duct extractors from kitchens onto the back of heat pumps to great effect, sometimes it's the simple things that make all the difference!
Just make sure you keep the condenser fins free from the inevitable grease which will attract dirt and debris. This may degrade efficiency if not kept on top of.
Well done guys, what a great effort by everyone👍
It would be interesting to go back next year to see how much the real costs to run is in reality and what it has been like to live with as a retro fit to an older house .
Really informative, I’m at the investigation stage and have had a quote from an experienced installer. Will be asking more informed questions as we go through the design stage
I've got Tommy on board for my install, probably later this year - just waiting for the Heatgeek Design & quote to be finalised. Might have to play fast & loose with Planning requirements as we are a terraced house and the 1m rule + doors and windows is killing the positioning - keeping fingers crossed! Good to see all the experts working as one unit for benefit of the client!
Great vid. To think this came about because Roger assessed heat pumps, wrongly and rightly, and then Heat Geek guys saw it then responded. Then a great team up.
*Keep it up fellas.* All of you who were there.
Very informative. I've so far the resisted the government push here ( Nova Scotia) to widely install heat pumps.
Typical, many of us can't get hold of a trade for love nor money, and John gets a whole houseful turning up 😅 I think Roger might be softening up to the idea of heat pumps... just a teeny bit. Its good to know that they can work when installed properly - will be interesting to see how it works out for John after all his troubles.
Thanks for the video. I quite enjoyed watching all the effort that's going into sorting this installation out. I would still like a heat pump despite all the complications but unfortunately my wife doesn't. So that's that! Mind you I would draw the line at putting my classic car outside under a cover just to make room for all the gubbins in my garage.
No cars were harmed during the making of this video and, once the work was done, the MG went back in the warm.
I've loved this series chaps. Great work.
Brilliant to see this, I have a pretty good ASHP system, but I think it could have been even better with heat geek expertise, but I had it put in just before heat geeks really kicked off, their installs just have such great attention to detail.
Top of the game these gents, this was a top job and great to watch
Jeez, I wish I had you all here! A couple of months ago I contacted one of only two Heek Geek-trained/approved engineers here in the far north of Scotland (both of who are about 100 miles away!) and paid him what was a very reasonable amount, considering he had a near two hour drive at each end of his visit, to look at my installation, fitted by McInnes heating engineers as part of the Scottish Warmer Homes/Warm Works/Scottish Gov initiative to get heat pumps fitted, especially where solid fuel had been the previous system. He analysed my installation, indicated one particular 'problem', which we largely sorted during his time here. While this has made little difference to the amount of electricity being consumed, I now have every part of the house toasty as, hmm, very fresh toast! However, it seems my pump is probably over-spec-ed, so I need to have every emitter in the house fully open. I am still experimenting with reducing the heat curve, 0.05 at a time, to try and find the sweet spot. John, the engineer, suggested as a possible longer term fix (to reduce cycling as the volume of my system re-pump is only just sufficient when all rads are open) that a volumiser vessel could be fitted at the return end, just before the pipework returns to the heat pump, but that keeping all rads open all the time my system is just about optimal. BUT - I can already tell, from checking data off the controller, and watching the electricity meter into the house, that my original SCOP of 2.5 is not going to be improved on. 1 kWh in, 2 kWh of heat out at freezing outdoor temp, nearer 2.5 at 10+/-, and 3 when in the teens C. SCOP of 2.5, but with more of the house toasty (I don't need or want to heat the spare room, but it seems the system is more efficient that way). I have the older iteration Arotherm ie pre-Plus, 11 kW unit, which when you check its spec, it shows the lowest COP of all that range. I am still quids in compared to solid fuel - by a factor of at least two, maybe even three, my system was fitted as fuel prices had just started to rocket so it's hard to make a direct comparison - paying about £105 a month averaged through the year at current prices, for a lovely warm house, and no ashes to tip out daily, with all the heft of getting coal and wood in, hard enough for an arthritic fella in his 60s... But a SCOP of over 3? It's not happening here folks. Any suggestions, should you have got this far... Cheers, keep up the good work (-;)~
Is the heat pump running 24/7, if so then that £105 a month isn't quite so bad if that's @ 28p/kWh ?
I have a Daikin 6kW been running five weeks 24/7 with me trying to find best weather compensation curve, two bedroom semi, modest insulation. System is 7 new radiators & plumbing, with 27 litre volumiser. Flow typically 32-36C.
N.E Scotland where four nights below zero in past five weeks, tonight 3.5C (average for month 6.5C hourly average). I have set schedule temperature on Hive thermostat very low allowing the rooms to sit at the weather compensated 'design' temperatures without any interference from thermostat calling for heat.
Certainly the DHW SCOP on my Mixergy cylinder appears to be in the 2.5-3 range as expected when heating DHW cylinder to 50C (too early to tell yet). So if heating a lot of hot water, or keeping steady temperature on DHW using immersion heater would certainly drag overall scop down, perhaps unnecessarily.
My overall SCOP for heating since installation shows 4.2, electric meter seems to tally with 'typical' usage of 11-14 kWh per day. living room 21-22C, bathroom similar, other rooms 18-19C, and my bedroom 16C (only one throttled down using TRV). All other TRVs fully open for max' flow rates. This is pretty consistent irrespective of external temperature.
I plan at some point to add monitoring to give me a better picture. At present relying on system energy in and heat out figures.
Running cost for me is @ £109/month for heat pump.
Excellent job and well engineered using the minimum number of components to achieve both efficiency and reliability. I find on commercial systems its difficult to avoid buffer vessels.
You guys are wonderful well done you all. You should be proud
Who’s this Tommy guy from London? He’s seems like a top bloke indeed. Knows his stuff too. 👏
There are some air to air systems that can run the refrigerant through a small hot water cylinder. Daikin multi plus for example.
Top videos loved it from start to finish 🤔👏😎
Great to see Roger coming on board with heat pumps. This should be required watching on prime TV to overcome the naysayers!
Why do you deduce I am on board? I still don't see them as the answer for the average British home. A system such as this will set you back around £13,000 after the grant, compared to a gas boiler at £3,000. You need to run this 24/7 where a gas boiler can be switched on and off.
We will see if this system proves cheaper to run than switching a boiler on and off when you need it.
Heat Geeks did a great job and I am sure it will serve John well but he was warm enough with his £2,000 gas boiler.
@@SkillBuilderThis is the key thing. Just had a new boiler installed £3000. Got the flow temps turned down and weather comp. Would never make the difference up.
OK so you were more open about the install so I took it you had been won over. But then if not let us pursue the debate. We need to decide what is the average British home and why they aren't suitable. I think it comes down to suspended floors and air leaky fabric in pre 1960 (?) homes. In reality that needs to be tackled as much as anything. It is now clear that the gas network won't exist by 2040/50. Hydrogen has been ruled out by the govt, the penny dropped that it is too dangerous and leaky for domestic use. The cost of checking for iron pipework in the 'average British House' will outweigh the cost of upgrading them to make them more comfortable with heat pumps. In truth, all those 19303s semis need to be refurbished every time someone moves out. Rip out the chimneys that take up so much room, get the walls insulated, aerogel on 9 inch walls where they exist (as they did in my West Wickham home) and seal up the floors. Either fill them in with insulation or seal them up another way. Then you won't even need a heat pump! And heat pumps don't need to run continuously... my ufh acts like a giant storage heater in my kitchen and for much of the year the heat pump runs only on cheap rate electricity overnight. We will need to get used to switching them off 16:00 to 19:00 to help the Grid out and no one considers a mix of heat pump and storage heater, This might be a good efficient combination in some homes.@@SkillBuilder
@@SkillBuilder You're spot on, this system has been fully optimised by professionals and is still costing considerably more a day a day to run than a modern gas combi. It's not even that cold right now, just wait till we see negative temps and watch that efficiency fall through the floor and the cost to run shoot up.
The smartest thing this customer has done is keep the boiler. Thank God. He can strip out that heat pump and hopefully make back something towards the original installation costs by selling it.
@@SkillBuilderexactly Roger. I am out most of the day and the gas boiler heats my flat in 20 min when I come back at 8pm. I don’t live in a big house with tons of unused space and a big basement to fit the warp core or the Enterprise (plus those huge outdoor fans that will be soon affected by the weather). I live in a flat in a 3-story-building that I bought working most of my life. Why do my taxes have to be used to pay these rich men with their new fad? Please, do another updated rant to give us justice. Everyone is brainwashed every day and your free voice is needed to counterbalance it.
Great that the home owner is getting all this help. I wonder how many other home owners will get this kind of support if their heat pump does not work properly. And what is the cost of all this work with no Skill builder around?
More importantly it’s knowing who to trust , you don’t made paying for proper work , but if you don’t know then that is when such as heat geek guarantee comes in , problem is there are not enough of them to go round .
Great Video. Well done fellas. It shows real commitment. Perhaps come and set up in Australia!
This is a really uplifting video.
What I don't get is do many heat pump people saying:
"you should just take the boiler out."
People don't have faith yet, it is better to encourage people to trust the heat pump with the reassurance that the known quantity of the boiler is still there.
This has answered a lot of questions for me on heat pump installation & how it should be done , i do have a theft concern though & wonder though how secure the actual unit is being outdoors compared to a combi boiler 🤔
Love that they opted for r290, enviromentally friendly and efficient, especially for low temp systems such as underfloor heating.
I buffer tank could have been kept as a volume extension tank, but the house is fairly high, de de-icing will probably work well anyway.
Bravo Roger
Lovely work! Q.E.D. (as already shown by the data). Congratulations to all. One observation => Looks like 50% or more of the energy is consumed overnight. Hmmm...
It tends to be cooler at night. If you could increase the heat input in the daytime and store it with good insulation the night set back could be lowered. Ideally you could turn it off
A lot of people with multi rate electricity tariffs will recharge the hot water cylinder over night, might be that?
Need guys like yall here in America
Great job I agree, but all too complicated like a modern car. Just on, off, timed, that’s all that’s needed. All the people that have this fitted have to go on a compulsory course to be able to work it, but their eyes glaze over within the first 5 mins. We have mains gas, it’s a third of the price or more per KWh than electric. If I was building a new house then maybe that’s the best thing to do. But older existing houses, well? My mother had air to air fitted some years ago, mainly for the aircon in the summer. After 10 years it stopped working. Two different engineers came and both concluded the main outside unit was u/s, no spares available, because of the refrigerant, the whole system was scrap. It never got replaced. I believe this will still be the case, so much to go wrong with these systems. Leading to ‘ oh sorry they don’t make your unit anymore’
@ 24:12 I kinda like Mitsubishi air to air ac’s …
My favorite I seen so far is a Hitachi multisplit - just 2 wires from the indor to outdoor, 22 volts + data on the same wires … + nicely made electronic boards…
With Daikin is a love/hate relationship 😅
there is no perfect AC
Just looked at the recording so far for the last couple of months. Cop of more than 4.5 that’s super cool (warm). Even without any time of use tariff you would be at around 6.5p/kwh.
Keeping the gas boiler is sooooo smart. That provides some disaster proofing that really should be standard.
I thought that at first but the standing charges for a gas supply are now very expensive. Given this customers history It would be worth it in the short term but long term I would get rid of the gas boiler (and gas supply) even if it means changing from a gas hob to an induction hob. The savings over not paying the gas supply standing charges will be material to the overall efficiency of running costs.
It's been fantastic following the heat pump debate to this outcome. Well done all
Great video, learned much from it. What is missing is principle of how heatpump work in general.
I suspect that many of us who are very green to this ( I admit I am!) will be appalled at the amount of equipment not to mention the spaghetti pipework to heat a house and provide hot water, compared to my condensing boiler, radiators and hot water tank ( in a very useful airing cupboard). No wonder it costs the earth to install! And listening to one of the installers, it looks as if finding a reliable installer will be like finding the end of the rainbow! Who knows who to believe, or what guarantees are worth the paper they are printed on - if they even are...... Like John, getting a cowboy looks easy.
We need more like this. Honest people withthe knowledge to purpose design . None of the fraudulent bullshit same are offering. Just good engineering ,experience and good workmanship with simplified systems. Not over complicated to make more money.
Waw, what a great video, and installation work. Keep up the good work boys. 💪🤟
“And that’s another one” made me chuckle that Rodger 🤣🤣
Oh this is heating g up!!!!!😂 great team of guys and very knowledgeable
The systems get better every year. Makes the consumer want to wait longer before upgrading.
Bravo!! this is British know how being at the forefront of the future..rather than pissing and moaning, people need to start to see the good in these..the future is beginning finally..great to see lads
A great collaboration and I hope it will go someway to help prove that heat pumps can work. Will look forward to future updates from John and I wouldn't mind a breakdown of the graphs on the dashboard and what they are showing.
One other point that was raised was the difference between a Heat Geek design/install and that provided by BG/Octopus. I have plugged my details into the Octopus website and it spat out a number but it didn't really have any real detailed information about my property so I can't see how they can commit to a number unless they over quote.
Really helpful video. Please can you produce some more ? A2A and also some of the smaller units from Octopus etc. Smaller house installations would be good to see too. I really liked the fan heater idea Roger mentioned.- sizing the system for 95 % of the year and having some additional cheap resistance heaters - for 5% of the year and I guess backup heating should HP have a problem. Probably wall panel heaters with central wifi control would be better than actual fan heaters though.
Cracking episode! Enjoyed that! Think we’ll have to get you both on Fix Radio for an interview and build some hype for installer show!
I may be two days late but this literally has been the best thing I’ve watched in a long time! Amazing from everyone involved and shows that decent people still exist….
Good luck to John and hopefully he can kick the gas guzzler to the kerb before long.
For a HP that costs £350 a month in electricity 😂
As long as electricity is not more than four times as expensive, he will save money. You can literally have a look at the data yourself.
@@Felix-st2ue Are these 💉still safe and effective?
Impressive cop! I recently fitted a 5kw ecodan in a small well insulated property and am struggling to get a cop of 3
What is your heat loss?
Good on ya lads blessed love ❤️
I have a all electric heating system, I would be interested in looking into Air to Air
Great video. Nothing better than seeing a group of expert tradespeople passionate about their work. Great content.
23:20 is an issue I've been thinking about a lot. For one thing we need systems that come as a complete package with pump/tank/battery/inverter that is well insulated and attaches to your outside wall in a nice, neat, probably modular package, which will solve the houses problem - not only do we have a problem with no space to put a heat store, but we have a problem with nowhere to put inverters and batteries too - you could even recover heat from the batteries and inverter if adventurous enough, there's some prior art for any manufacturer who wants it. For my house I wanted MHVR anyway and I'm very seriously looking at not air to air, but I'm looking at exhaust air heat pumps - they're much lesser known but they sort of combine the benefits of an MHVR with a heat pump and _can_ produce hot water. I'm quite lucky because my house is only 2 years old and super efficient, else a system like that might not work, but I think it might work for me - my house is three stories and whilst efficient has a problem with warm air from the ground floor rising to the top floor and I think a system like that will have the benefit of moving heat back down through the house. Apartment buildings are a more complex problem and I honestly thing that aside from systems more like what are common in the US where the heat pump is attached to a cylinder and probably vented to outside, communal systems might be the only way forward.
Also! Somebody really needs to invent a wedge-shaped thermal store of literally any kind that I can put under my stairs, plskthx. Literally wasted space..
The most thrilling episode yet especially when Szymon walks on. You ought to dub the theme from the magnificent 7 on to the video.
We can't pay the copyright on that music.
Well done guys.
22:40 😂
This was the most entertaining part of the video 😂😊
But the whole video is cool
You don’t need tv when you can get so much fun on RUclips + you can learn something 😊