Great video. We have had an ASHP for nearly 3 years, and the thing a lot of people miss is how much warmer your home is compared to gas that most people run only for 6 or so hours per day. Accidentally I realised my Gen1 Nest thermostat had been harvesting my home temperature data for both the old gas boiler and the new ASHP so i have been able to compare the heat outcome before and after and the results are striking! I did a presentation to OVO smart tree house on this - I would be happy to share my extensive data with your channel should you wish.
Yes, sharing your data to this, or any other channel will be extremely informative and educational to others who may be considering a heat pump....or sceptical.
As a 15 year installer of heat pumps, you have already addressed 90% of the FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt), before we have even hit half way through this video.👍
Here in Denmark, where gas is counted in m3, which contains the same amount of energy as 1L of oil (about 10.3 kWh), we replaced our 15 year old Vaillant gas boiler with a Vaillant 7 kW heat pump (same UniTower system as you). We spent 4482 kWh on heating from march to march, priced at 0,15 GBP/kWh, to total price for a year was around 672 GBP. In previous years with gas we used between 1300 and 1600 m3 of gas, which cost between 1 and 2 GBP / m3, so lets say 1,5. 1450 m3 of gas times 1,5 is 2100 GBP per year for heating with gas. So even without solar panels, we’re still only paying around 1/4 of our old gas bill. The same also goes for the EV, which so far has cost around 1/3 of what we paid to drive the “old” diesel car. Doing the reverse math, 1450 m3 of gas is 14935 kWh. Divide that by 4482 and we get a COP value of 3.3. That’s the efficiency our heat pump has been running at during full a year.
Wow! As a person who is number blind I'm so impressed that you were not only able to make all these calculations but translated them into GBP. Thank you so much that's very encouraging.
In the UK, the gas price per kWh is around 4 times less than electricity, which is why many people will avoid changing their heating system to a heat pump. It would cost them more money for heating based on your numbers.
@@sdgelectronicsnatural gas in Denmark is heavily taxed as well as oil/gasoline/diesel, and to some extent electricity. The loophole is that IF you have electrical heating (heat pump or resistive), then you don’t pay taxes of any consumption above 4000 kWh / year. That also makes the heat pump your EVs best friend. Subsidies exist for people with EVs and no heat pumps, usually in the form of a payback scheme for kWh used by the car, which requires a separate meter in the charger.
@@rabhaw2327 I have no idea how it works in the UK, but here in Denmark we have no nuclear power, and everything that isn’t generated by renewable sources is from gas turbines. On top of that, the electricity price is dictated by the most expensive source, which is usually gas. On a windy, sunny day we will have negative electricity rates, and on a dark, calm winter day we can pay up to €1.5/kWh (extremely rare!). The average price for the past 12 months has been around €0.35/kWh.
@@SailingAquamarineYou already pay that even if have a gas boiler. You don't pay double electric standing charge just because you switch from a gas boiler to a heat pump.
No standing charge for lpg. Government has put these in 90% of houses in my village for free and give the sales guys a massive bonus for every house they get to sign up. So far it's half and half that people say they are ok but they are using double in electric and we haven't had a cold winter yet.
Couple of things, if you have essential and non essentials consumer units my Zappi differentiates between EV charge on non essential and house charge on essential via the app or the readout on the EV charger itself just tells your EV charge costs assuming off peak only Second, I have never considered pay back time relevant, as I am fortunate to have had the funds for my battery and solar (no heat pump yet) so it is simply a comparison of 5% return at present on savings account less tax comparing to 15% saving on the running cost TAX FREE Looking at your installation costs on a previous video the same principle applies though return about the same as a savings account, but again TAX FREE
Here’s a comparison. We live in NZ, we are fully electric, heat pump hot water, 2 EVs, 3.5Kw solar. Total annual consumption 5310 Kwh, cost $1075 nz. Eco house but not passive. No C/H ( not needed here) but 3 split aircon units for heating and cooling. TOU tariff which we use with one hour of power free each day.
Nice overview. We are in the process of getting an ASHP and have started upgrading our rads as recommended by the heat loss calculation. I’ve done 4 of the 10 that needed beefing up to run at 45C and below.
Firstly, thank you for this detailed cost analysis. I have few questions: 1. How many people take shower/day? 2. What temperature do you keep in the hot water cylinder? 3. Which company installed your HP? I am seriously considering the HP. I have 4KW PV, PW2 and EV6. I also have Octopus day/night tariff. I think this justifies to have the HP installed. Thank you.
A mate of mine has a Heat pump in a 400 year old stone cottage. Nice and warm inside with underfloor heating and a new well insulated roof. So they work well if they are designed correctly. Hafod in north wales did a top job
Do not get yourself a eat pump. My friend, they are very, very expensive and the radiators. Do not already get out. You need to keep your leap pump on for hours burning your electric away. Ask about ask other people who's got them stay a
Anyone think the cats are planning stuff together. They keep popping up on various YT channels that deal with EVs and related stuff. Btw, I have a cat so am perfectly fine with that.
Ok, but considering all of those other tweaks that you mentioned. I.e. solar panels, batteries, optimized gas system, etc. Best and most accurate, easiest test would have been to compare a year of gas vs a year for heat pump... assuming minimal price changes from one year to the other. Agreed... real world comparison is not easy.
At last, you have answered the question I've been asking for months - what is the lowest/average power consumption demand from a 5 kW heat pump. "200/300/400w" excellent, thank you! - this is what I need to know to size my home battery. All the spec sheets tell me the maximum output which will only be about 3% of my yearly heating cycle.
Hi EVM, how much in general would you use daily for the heat pump daily during winter. I'm trying to understand how much capacity is needed on the battery to power it during winter days.
Thank you for this very informative Video. We had the same Vaillant ASHP installed in April this year and are approaching our first winter with it. One thing I did notice in your data though...you seem to be using quite a lot of electricity for hot water...🤔 I know the Unitower isn't as efficient as it could be (we have it as well) but it still seems high to me. What is your tank temperature set at and are you using the standard Vaillant legionella cycle?
Great video. I have many people always telling me they don't work and when I point out that we have one in a 200 square metre 220 year old stone house they don't believe we are warm enough. Last year Jan Feb and March cost us just for heating and hot water 400 quid on a 20p all day tarriff and that is far cheaper than how much oil we used previously. We are very happy and like you i do keep tweaking it. Also a big difference was fitting low e glazing units as ours were old original sealed units. That only cost a 1000 quid to do the whole house. I've given up telling people they work in all properties you just have to use them correctly
@fanfeck2844 yes that is correct. You can tell if you have low e by using the torch on a mobile phone. If you shine it from the inside out you get a series of reflections and on low e the second reflection will be different to the first third and fourth and this is because of the transparent metal layer on the inside of the inside piece of glass
My only criticism of the “white board of truth” is that it is based on your supply charges. Even tripling the cost looks good. Trying to spec the solar battery needs and also considering a heat battery.
My 1970's 5 bedroom house had loft insulation but very little cavity as it had broken down. We used 3,333kWh to maintain 18c for the whole house and the house felt warm at all times, whatever the weather threw at us. Also did our hot water and at that time it was heated whenever it was needed. I am now moving to a night time water heating as i am on the same cheap overnight tariff. Since running the ASHP for the first year, I have paid for removal and replacement of the cavity insulation, this will hopefully reduce my use by up to 30%.
Unfortunately for us it was a spray in insulation from 1970’s and it had broken down and was disintegrating. Also there were many large sections of the walls that were not even containing insulation. Yes it was more expensive as the bigger cost was to blow out the old insulation. They removed bricks and fitted large suction tubes whilst dislodging the old insulation with high pressure air. Then it was refilled with modern insulation.
Thanks for the update. I have solar and batteries (18.8kwh) and electric car. Heat pump is next on the list. You might also be interested in Ripple energy shares as this will drop your bills even further. I have Kirk hill and Derr il water shares .
Hi EVM. Great video as always. I love your Yorkshire dry sense of humour. One question for you - in winter how much max electricity (kWh) would your heat pump use in a day. I’ve got solar + 16.8kWh battery and want to know if the heat pump could run off the battery all day. Cheers, Roy
Those are very useful numbers, thanks for sharing. I am seriously impressed. I am heading in the same direction as you. I have Intelligent Octopus, I've had solar panels for 9 years, batteries for 7 years. Just upgraded by batteries so I now have 18kWh. Once I've run through this winter I'll be looking at moving to a heat pump on the basis it will run almost always on free or 7.5p electricity.
Me too. I’m still worried though about the need for 19kwh of batteries. It’s likely they’ll be essential to keep average £/kwh down in winter but still 18kwh is a big cheque..
I watched your "ad" for your sponsor with great interest. Why? Because you were NOT reciting their advertising info. The way you presented "YOUR" info on the product(s) was, IMHO, FAR MORE EFFECTIVE. I think, therefore, that the sponsor is getting far more "bang-for-the-buck" than from those other sponsorships with BORING info recitals. [I always FF through them.]. Good work!
great video as always. I am on of those people who has a heat pump that was not fitted properly. Ours is a ground source heat pump fitted around 2008 when our barn conversation was rebuilt. We bought the house 4 years ago, but only ran the heating over winter for 2 years due to the cost. We could use 3500KWH in a single month. The main reason we turned it off was that we were not getting any heat upstairs. Downstairs we have under floor heating which worked well, but the radiators upstairs were always cold. watching your videos, I am going to ask heat geeks if they have any locally trained reputable agents who can come out and look at our system and provide advise. I have looked at replacement for a more modern unit, but I don't want to spend any more money unless I know it will be well spent. equally, I would prefer not to replace a ground source heat pump with a air source heat pump if I can reuse the existing coils I have going into our field as ground source pumps are supposedly more efficient than air source. It's the heating that is the missing item for us now. we have 4kw of solar with a FIT tariff that pays nearly 2K per year. Another 4KW solar array that we fitted last year. A Tesla power wall 2 with gateway. a Zappi and Nissan Leaf - soon to be replaced with a model 3. Like you we do around 25K miles a year in the EV. I need to sit down and do the calculations, but I am confident our electric bill (we have no oil or gas) is less than the fit payment. cheers J
How do you heat the house now? I expect the flow temperature is fixed and is set too high, try and set it to 35C and just run it, should contribute and be very efficient, won’t be any good for the radiators upstairs, but at least it’s doing something. You can start turning it up and looking at the energy use. Disable any auxiliary/resistive heat mode.
@@edc1569 hi, last year we bought a load of logs and used them at both ends of the house. No heat upstairs during the winter except a couple of oil filled radiators. I did get an engineer in last summer to look at the unit from a company in Shropshire. he serviced it and said he could not see any way to improve the efficiency of it. It's a danfoss heat pump. I phoned the company to see if they had any advise but they no longer make heat pumps and so could not help. Not sure if it's an early model and not fitted well, whether our radiators have been calculated correctly for the house or something else altogether. I will look at the instructions and see how to do what you recommend. cheers
@@juttley72 This is not my area of expertise at all - but it strikes me that your problem most likely lies in combining under-floor heating (which I recall has to go no higher than 35 Celsius so that you don't cook yourself if you have a fall) and radiators that really need to be more like 50 Celsius, both on the same circuit. You would most likely need a split system, or run the floor at the end of the circuit, such that you have already lost 20 Celsius via the radiators upstairs.
@@ashtontechhelp thanks. Not sure if that is the issue or not, but not something I had considered. I can feel the floor is warm but not hot. Whereas the radiators are all very cold to the touch. I even tried touching the pipes going into the rads and they were also cold. I half wonder if somewhere there is a valve that has been turned off running to the radiators stopping heat getting through. Either way, when I calculated the likely cost of electric last year I decided to leave it switched off. Our house is very well insulated, but it still meant some cold nights and mornings. But we got through ok. thanks for taking the time to respond to my post. cheers John
@@juttley72 I think it's well worth having someone competent look at this. It seems pointless to have such a high-spec system sitting idle. A small amount of investment could result in a much more comfortable house. You should be able to use a cheap hand-held temperature measuring tool to get an idea of the floor temperature. You have likely got the system turned down so low that it's not even registering at the radiators. Might be worth turning it up to max, just to test whether it's sending round the whole system or not.
I've had a heat pump since 2009, and yours seems to be a lot more efficient than ours. Or perhaps your house is better insulated. Our electricity use (pre ev ) ran at between 10-12000 kWh (for the whole house). We've done something big regarding insulation this year, so I hope that will fall.
Heat pumps have really gotten better the last few years. Hope your insulation helps, but don't forget to look at how how are running the heat pump. If it has to output at high temperatures, efficiency goes down much more quickly than a gas boiler.
Nice cat😂 I am an heating installer in the northwest and currently doing my heat pump/ solar thermal qualification. Glad to see some positive heat pump videos. Great infos thanks
If you watch his videos you will find he is quite explicit about his costs. There is no denying there are significant costs. Though not affordable for many people there are also many many families who spend the same on new kitchens, multiple foreign holidays, new sofas, new cars more frequently than they need. None of those things have any "payback" and none of those things reduce the carbon footprint of the family.
@MrAdopado if you take the investment costs and depreciate it over say 10 -15years and add service costs the energy cost quoted will be a lot more which then begs the question why you would do it in the first place
@@leerobinson4078this obsession with payback/return on investnent on heat pumps is really weird. It's never brought up for other things that may be more expensive but have no payback at all. Not every purchase in life is about payback. If people have reasons other than payback to buy a heat pump, then that's up to them. No-one is being forced to get one against their will.
@@leerobinson4078 Firstly he would do it to massively reduce his CO2 output. Secondly he has done it because his central heating boiler needed to be replaced so this was a good time to make the change. Why would you treat this spending differently to any other family spend? You don't make these calculations when you spend on a holiday trip, or a new kitchen or landscaping your garden or whatever. Your calculations only come into the picture if he would have invested the money instead of spent it on something else.
I am in Australia, we use a heat pump year round, but obviously lots more for heating....but we heavily insulated before puting it in our new home for efficiency.?.we have put in an approx 7 kw system by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries. Love it❤
Thanks for the video. One thing not mentioned is the cost of a service and the intervals. Obviously a gas boiler has less moving parts and generally just needs a clean once a year.
Gas boilers need servicing for safety. You service heat pumps to ensure they are running the best they can - like a car you can do most of it yourself. Turn it off - remove the cover(s), remove debris, leaves etc, give the Heat Exchangers and fan a clean, and make sure electrical and water connections are snug - and in the latter no leaks. Turn it back on again. Refrigerant tests are more relevant in A2A as longer line runs but can be done every 2-4 years. Like a car, guarantees may require the unit to be serviced by one of the manufacturer's authorised engineers, after that you're free to do it yourself.
Hi. I’ve had a heat pump installed and would really appreciate a broad comparison of electricity consumption. I’m a big of of this channel and this was one of the main reasons I went with an ASHP. My system is a Vaillant arotherm plus 7kw. It is a hybrid system with an 18kw gas boiler. 45 litre buffer tank. My house has 6 bedrooms over three floors, 20 rads, approx 230sq/m and the heat loss was calculated at 8.6kw. The design temp is 50° so the ASHP will struggle at 0° as it bival point has been set at 2°. Last month the ASHP consumed 1000kWh. It was a particularly cold month with some days around -5°. Also, the ASHP had a loud buzzing when it was very cold. Vaillant have changed the compressor but the day they changed it, it was around 0°. There was still an annoying buzz and the engineer told me that’s normal. Unfortunately nobody has posted this ASHP operating in very cold weather and I’m trying to understand if this is normal? What’s people thoughts? Thanks
Really informative video, thank you. Any chance you could describe how you used your ASHP for heating throughout the year(on all the time throughout the year, on all the time when the temp dropped below x°C, on for 8 hrs a day when the temp dropped below x°C etc) and to heat your water. Could you also describe how much energy you used each month for the above - I’m trying to understand how the energy required fluctuates across the year. Thanks.
Great video. However, I think it perfectly highlights the problems with heat pumps as it stands and why they will not be adopted unless things change significantly. You are the best possible case for a heat pump but from a cost perspective it is still marginal compared to a gas boiler. 1. If you were paying the current price cap of 27p/kWh your annual bill would be circa £930 - the same as gas. -This is despite having a modern house and an optimal installation, as proven by the scop. 2. A tiny minority of people have the ability to buy cheaper electricity so it will never make financial sense. Why would somebody spend an additional 5k they probably dont have just to keep warm vs a gas boiler? -It cost you (at a guess) an additional £4-5k for additional battery storage. If you add this into the calculation (amortised over 10-15yr) it costs more than gas (despite being an optimised installation). 3. The ROI comment is interesting, but it is very relevant because option 1 (gas) cost circa £3k and option 2 (heat pump) cost circa 8k (even with a 5k grant!). There needs to be an ROI on the 5k for the people who can afford it to compel them to do so. If there isn’t a positive ROI there is no point spending the additional money (all other things being equal). By comparison solar panels make more sense and have a healthy ROI vs doing nothing. Having said that, they still dont give an ROI as good as simply investing the money in a typical S&S ISA. There is a lot of propaganda spread about heat pumps (noisy, unreliable, don’t work etc), but the real underlying problem is the economics dont stack up even in favourable cases. Until the economics problem is addressed they will forever remain a luxury gadget for heating.
You make some fair points but the video does recognise the issues of extra cost on batteries, solar etc. It also made the point that the spending was made without any expectation or requirement for "payback". If you have the money (many don't of course) it's a great way to spend it rather than on things that are instantly gone and add relatively little to your life. There is no doubt but that many of these choices are simply not available to lots of people. However, it is up to the people who can afford it and are motivated to be early adopters to demonstrate the feasibility (or otherwise) of low carbon alternatives to heating our homes with mains gas, oil or LPG. The technology will have a chance to mature and for prices to moderate which in time will benefit us all.
My heat pump was installed last month so it'll be interesting to see how I compare. My house was built in 2005 but in Colorado so almost everything else is different. I think it's funny that our HVAC stuff is all still rated in British Thermal Units and yours is not.
We no longer use feet, inches and pounds and ounces , gallons . We buy our petrol(Gas) in litres but drive in miles. Buy our milk in litres but drink pints at the pub.
@@WilliamLeigh-cl9bq😂some of us do 😂 I know that 30cm is a foot but I can still only think or picture something in feet, inches and yards! Same with pints and gallons but I no longer have to worry about gallons since getting the used ev last year. Only use miles per kWh for that and still get confused on RUclips channels that talk in kWh per 100kilometres or whatever it is...as you can tell that means nothing to me however you slice it!😂😅
Have been quoted £2100 for a heat pump, rads and cylinder by Octopus Energy (after the £7500 BUS grant). Already have solar, EV and a battery so looking forward to the heat pump being fitted, if I get a similar saving to you I'll be well happy!!
hi... what size house do you have.. I have a 3 bed end terrace (extended).. I have been quoted £6060 .. but even after the increased grant my quote would still be £3500... Im just trying to verify systems/costs etc.. thanks
we have solar panels 19 kw storage batteries, wood burner, tiny bit of oil plus dual inverter a/c which also blows warm air in winter, less than a kilowatt per unit we have 4 but rarely use them all, we live way out of town so its just like you said finding the blend thats best, we to did it because we wanted to not interested about returns to be honest.
8:11 Next project for you - install an energy monitor on your big use items - heat pump, EV charger, oven, washing machines etc. Not really expensive - Emporia for £100, or better Open Energy Monitor for about £300.
I know we, in the US, use a log of power. But with the rise in the UK electric prices, I expected much more cost in pounds. We have a more efficient Solar system and larger and our kw price for electricity is $0.138, but I paid way more for the year at $2652. That is also with two electric cars and no battery. Unfortunately, we have a larger house and have two HVAC units, of which only the new one is a heat pump. I know from watching the monitor that new HVAC only uses half the power the original unit does. And the resistive coil in the old unit, when on, is 4 kw.
Hi, I am seriously looking at changing my gas combi boiler to an ASHP. You give in your calculations the total electric used by the new heating system but could you give me what you gas consumption was for the year before the ASHP installation so that I can try and do a calculation along the same lines as yourself. I too have solar, 13.5Kw battery storage and a new EV so it makes sense to close the loop.
I have a gas furnace and water heater and range. Average 600 to 1000 kwh per month which is 7200 kwh per year. How do you manage using so little power? I am happy if I get a bill under $250.00 CAD per month.
Good video. For many £.030 is the figure we go for, so using your avgs as a guide, that would make my heating bill almost twice as much as a gas boiler. The heating is rarely used tho as im stingy and wear jumpers. I do have electric showers, would have to factor that into the Calcs. Yet you can see why the switch just isnt viable for many. Payback and savings on a heat pump just aren't there unless you've already invested £££ in solar and battery's. And your a high user.
Sorry, how are you doing your calculations to make it twice as expensive as a gas boiler? Gas boilers in the UK typically only achieve 85% efficiency (even if they say 90%+, that's only when they're running at a lower flow temperature - perfect for heat pumps). MCS minimum is a SCOP of 2.8 now. So with the current price cap (7p/kWh Gas, 27p/kWh Electricity): 100kWh of usable heat costs with gas 7p/.85 = £8.25. with a heat pump at the MSC minimum 27/2.8 = £9.64. Heat geek ones are averaging ~4.15 SCOP 27/4.15 = £6.50.
@@BenIsInSweden that's a lot of unnecessary information when he's handily provided all the figure's in the video. Most of us. Without the capital to install solar, batteries and a heat pump.will be paying £.0.30 pkwh. So taking the usage figure this example provides of £1046 for heating and hot water on the kWh they used. And then looking at how much my gas bill is. It's twice as expensive as my gas bill . Albeit my showers are electric so that's a hot water cost that is not part of my gas bill. But then I also have a gas hob. So that's a usage that is part of my gas bill. I don't need to start discussing merits about efficiency, green credentials, wastage etc. These are cold hard simple factual numbers that most us can relate to. How much will it cost. What's my payback time. My boiler could pack up tomorrow. I could be moving next year. I could maybe put my heating on longer and be warmer more effectively and theoretically cheaper with a heat pump. But thats all irrelevant when you feel in the actual numbers. The more electricity I use the more value for money the standing charge is. But that's not Saving me money.
@@zombiestyled even at 30p/kWh it doesn't make it twice as expensive. You can't compare his kWh usage nor his bill cost to yours unless you live in exactly the same house as him. You can estimate what a heat pump usage will cost based on *your* annual gas usage, but using someone else's figures compared to your gas bill isn't going to give you anywhere near accurate figures.
@@BenIsInSweden of course I can. I live in a semi. 3 persons. I can take his average. I'd wager his house is better insulated. And he isn't a high user of heating. So I'd guess his usage is on the economical side too. He did a comparable gas usage video a while back too. So the useful numbers are there. And as stated already, if my usage is less then the payback period is even longer.
@@zombiestyled I mean, you can, but it's totally wrong. Even the location of the house makes a difference, and you've already said you're stingy and wear jumpers, whereas EVM probably keeps his home at a regular ~20-21C. As I said, the main way of calculating what a heat pump would cost you is by using what you use in gas, working out the heat energy required, and how much that would approximately cost with a heat pump.
it will be necessary for you to factor in depreciation on your batterys and inverters which for 19kw ? about £!5 to 20k of kit needing replacing every 10 -12 years or have I got this wrong ? Apologies if so.
The Major problem i have is We have a large window and patio doors on the rear wall, very very limited space down the side of the house and very close to next door and have a really rely small utility room, So where are all these huge tanks going to go? Can just about get the boiler in now?
Obviously your batteries play a part in powering the ASHP during the day. With all normal usage etc how much is left by end of day on a particularly cold one? (I saw on your other video 38kwh used (some of that is during the night so obviously battery is charging), but you only have 19kwh storage)
For 2-4 weeks a year the batteries run out before the cheap period restarts. Depends on how cold it is. Earliest I've seen it is 3-4pm when it runs out. but it's for a such small part of the year it doesn't have any affect.
fitting a heat pump to a flat/apartment is much more difficult unless the complex has a central pump fitted for all of the flats and even then it quickly becomes impracticable - I'm not against heat pumps or EVs but it really is very difficult for flat owners/renters
Agree, but for flats and apartments we really should be pushing towards have central heating systems. Far more efficient than lots of individual devices
Which is why in the Netherlands, local Councils now have a legal duty to establish community solutions. The British fetishes with the free market and mostly small scale landlords won't serve those in high density housing, including most buildings converted to flats. We are sleep walking, with no societal leadership. But then the Prime Minister just got a whole electricity supply added to heat his pool.
Hi thanks for the video. Can you tell me how big your water tank is and how many KWh used to heat the tank on a given day? Also how much does 1 hour of heating consume on average. Thanks
Can I ask if you happen to know if octopus do a good job with heat pump installations? Just got a quote for £500 (nothing wrong with gas boiler, but would like to get off gas), but have no idea where to look for this as only just started doing the research. Thanks.
Thanks for the informative video. My question is a bit more mundane, but in all these ASHP videos everyone seems to have space for a plant room where all the pipework etc goes. In our 3 bed semi there is no extra space like this, so where would we put it? Our gas boiler lives in the old airing cupboard upstairs and I'm assuming this is no good. Thanks
Interesting video thanks. Goes to show electrification is the way to go if you go all in. Our ASHP costs more as we don't have variable tariffs or a battery but my 16kW ASHP is using around 2200kWh per year...Could you give a kWh/SQM especially for space heating?
I have a hybrid system (new boiler and heat pump)...is it better to keep the system running on manual rather than setting times to keep house at more constant temperature?
Great video. Shows that this is the way to go. Also, your point about choosing the right installer is spot on. Lots of idiots spouting lies who have no idea about how to install heat pumps trying to push false narratives.
Genuine question- I’ve watched a fair few videos about heat pumps and one thing I’ve noticed is they all seem to have a garage or huge outbuilding to house the equipment required. What if you don’t have a garage or outbuilding to house all this? What if you have a normal house with (if you’re lucky) a small laundry room. Where would all the equipment go? Thanks.
We have a similar setup for solar and battery but currently don't have an Ashp and are thinking of installing one can you give me an idea of how many kwh a day they use in the winter I am trying to estimate how much more battery storage we need.
I didn’t hear you say how much you batteries and inverter cost and whether you factored them cost into your calculations, and how much solar you may generate throughout the year and the size of solar panel array you have.
Would I be right in thinking you have an air-source heat pump there? If so, I know they work down well below normal British winter temperatures, but on those exceptional occasions, what is your backup? Does your water heater have the capability for gas as a secondary option? I know they have this in the states, but then they tend to heat / cool air with their heat pumps and then blow it around the house in ducting rather than heating water and piping it around in radiators. Or do you just have an electric element in the water circuit?
The UK is in the situation where a backup isn't really required. The arotherm plus is still able to operate down to -20C (technically -25C, with a further reduced flow temperature range), and depending on the design temperature will still heat a home and provide DHW too - an immersion heater in the cylinder might be needed for anti legionella cycles at that point, but I think most in the UK if temperatures dropped that low there are more pressing matters than sanitising DHW.
A great video as ever. I have 9.6kWh battery storage. I am trying to work out how much more battery I might need if I get a heat pump. Octopus have quoted a 4kWh heat pump.
Think like an inside out Fridge/Freezer. Who, personally, turns their freezer on/off depending on whether they are in the room, or it's cold outside - NoBody! Heat pumps are just inside-out fridge/freezers with a few more controls to 'fiddle with'. Yes, it's hard work unlearning all of granny's way of keeping jack frost at bay that assumed draughty poorly insulated houses and short bursts of intense heat, and veg stored in a pantry. Set it up, switch it on, relax.
I run 2 air to air heat pumps here in Sweden. Both installed 7 years ago, one in the house and one in the workshop. The workshop one went wrong and stopped producing heat (or A/C). Finally found a man to come and have a look and read the fault code flashing. He thinks it needs a new invertor card in the outside unit, price around £800 plus a return visit for installation. So all in all the repair will likely cost £1200 for an already slightly old pump, versus 2500 for a new one, plus the downtime, waiting for the first visit, waiting for the part/second visit. When I looked at the repair manual I found out that these units are pretty complicated - invertor cards, compressor, sensors, fan motor, electric expansion valves etc etc. So for anything other than a simple fix, they're just scrapped and replaced.
With your "finally found a man", are you saying that you had difficulty finding someone? Even where I am in a rural area I'm spoilt for choice - basically the majority of plumbers in the area can do heat pumps as well, and most of them deal with any heat pump. From 7 years ago it could have been one still on r410a or a blend, which comes with some (legal) challenges if refrigerant needs extracting and refilling.
@@BenIsInSweden Yes, difficult to even find someone that answers the phone or emails. They're more interested in selling a new pump and installation, especially when most of the installation work is already done - the hole, pipes, wires, konsol, and the installation price is the same as a completely new installation. It's a racket really when spares prices are so high. A compressor is 16000 SEK, fan motor 4000 etc. I've gone back to direct electric. No installation, no waiting around, virtually nothing to go wrong, and if it does, a quick trip to Jula or Biltema and you're up and running again in minutes, not waiting for some loser to visit and scratch his head whilst quoting telephone number repair prices. Sure, electric use is higher, but the investment price is much lower, and the reliability and convenience is unbeatable.
@@davidnorton5887 since you've said no installation, I guess you've gone for plug in ones and 240V. You might want to check your main fuse size, as it may only be 16 or 20 amp. 2 2000W 230V rads running on the same phase with a 16A main fuse will blow it. So whilst your idea might sound appealing, it may end up causing you more hassles and potentially more costs if you need to upgrade your main fuse to support them. If you don't have intimate knowledge of your house electrics, it's probably worth investing in a tibber pulse, so you can monitor whether you are at risk of blowing one of the main fuses.
WOW! Either heat pumps in UK are much more efficient than in US or your home is extremely insulated, and your system was designed and installed by heat pump skilled team. My operating cost is about 2.5 times most expensive oil heat costs. And, comfort is horrible. 15degree difference from room to room and from floor to ceiling.😟
Are you able to share any graphs of an average day in December for eg of how many kwh’s you use to heat your home and how many total radiators you have?
I love your videos as they influenced the solar set up I have, but can you provide some figures on hourly electricity consumption of the heat pump please? I’m also on octopus intelligent and trying to work out if I need a larger battery.
How many m3 of gas were you using before the heat pump was installed? Because that would be interesting to place next to the kWh usage, which is of course basically indirectly talking about the COP and things such as the isolation of your house. But it helps to get a feeling.
I can beat your stats with some old technology (gas central heating and electricity) where recently I sourced all my energy for a year at ZERO net cost. This is a two bedroom medium size flat with a new Bosch Boiler. I have the Apple Homepod setup with Philips hue lighting and some of the latest appliances from Bosch. My battery storage is Ecoflow and I am well served by legacy supplier British Gas who run Peak Save.
What about mentioning the upcoming New Octopus Cosy HP which will be free for most 3 bedroom houses, even if you have installation of new hot water tank? So, for people who were going to replace their gas boiler anyway, that saves them say £4000, which would pay for some battery/solar installation.
I am moving to a new build in the next 6 weeks. First time heat pump user. Any major tips? Underdloor heating. No solar yet. Rads upstairs .samsung system.i believe
I'm without octopus go, I have only 4 hours at 9p kWh . How would I get the tariff you have with 6 hours ? I have a air to air airsource heat pump it's great and when it's cold it uses about 4kwh a day to heat my house to 19 degrees c , and best bit is it's a second hand unit , was a shop heater so it was very cheap to buy and cost £100 to get it fitted. I'm thinking a battery to store power when it's cheap. What's the cost and how do you connect it to a smart meter. Thankyou for sharing
Yes. Solar and battery are the reason EVM is saving money. On it's own, a heat pump costs about the same to run as a boiler. (Just compare the price of gas and electricity and the COP of the heat pump.) The price of gas vs electricity is likely to change in 5-10 years, and then heat pumps will be cheaper to run.
All very well quoting this and that but the fact remains airsource heat pumps freeze around zero and take heat constantly from your home to defrost . I wish it was different but that is my experience.
Ah yes, half truths. They don't "freeze" around zero. Defrosting (which starts at around +5C) clears the coils of built-up frozen condensation that reduces air flow, and takes a long time for it to build up to take effect again, defrosting takes about 5 minutes every 1-2 hours. A properly set-up A2W heat pump won't make a noticeable difference in doing the defrost, and if it will, a buffer can be used for defrosting so it doesn't affect the temperature inside the house. A2A systems turn the fan off inside so they don't take a noticeable amount of heat from indoors.
I have a heat pump in a wimpy no fines (concrete) home. I also have solar and battery storage and ev. All seem to be working well. What calculations do i need to do to confirm how efficient the heat pump is . Or is there a website where i can check this. Thanks
You can only really compare against previous consumption unless you install something like a Sontex Superstatic heat meter on the flow from the heat pump.
What temp to you have your heating set at please? The engineers set mine at 55° and it used so much electricity last winter i got a nasty shock with the bill. Thankfully the heat assistance payments were made so that covered part of the 'damage'. I went from using 30Kwh per month in my home to almost 1000Kwh per month over the winter!! Shocked at the expense. It's an 8Kw heat pump. It shouldn't have to work so hard? I'm reducing the heating temp to 35° this year to try to save money. I also see a setting on the control unit that can be set. It's called the Compensated Target. Input AT = 20°C. Slope = 1.1. Offset =50.0 Compensation Target = 28°C..... it's set at 'OFF' at the minute. Can i adjust this for more efficiency? (Ps. I have solar panels, smart emersion, Economy 7 export meter, & 2.5Kw battery).... I really shouldn't have such high electricity use so i really believe the system has been set wrong?? Help please? 😁👍
40c flow temp. Your heat calculations should tell you what’s needed. Or get a heat geek up to optimise the system. Couple of hundred quid maybe but you’ll get that back many times over with savings etc.
Ah. That's maybe going to increase efficiency if I've set it at 35°, (which is minimum), but is warming the house ok at present. Outside ambient temp's are still quite high. (Still averaging double figures at night). I do need a heat geak! Fitter out last week to service the one year old system...I really think the lower heat settings aren't understood by some in the industry tbh 😔 I need to know how a system works but the parameter settings are well outside my understanding so I'm a bit frustrated to find the ASHP so expensive. Summink ain't right that's for sure. 👍
Very informative and a great example of how investing in your system makes your house cheap to run. However I'm sorry to say that I thought Homer's contribution was the best. 😊
Thanks for your video. It has been very helpful. I think I am about 18 months behind you and much of what you say is my thinking too. It is good to get reassurance. Sorry if this has been said before. In your property how many kWh does the heat pump use on a cold day? I am sizing my battery storage and trying to cover as much heat pump load as possible. I believe you have 19 kWh battery storage now. Im looking at 2x Power walls and im just curious how long this will cover the HP load
Ah excellent.. so on average for a cold December was approx 22kWh and your coldest day 32kWh. Im going to guess that your house has slightly better insulation as you have a modern house. Mine from 1962 all be it with modern windows and a mix of modern and older insulation. Also I dunno how big your house is. Mine is 206sqM with 13 radiators. But Im thinking 2 powerwalls is in the correct ball park. Thanks again for the eco playlist it has been very useful. I agree with your comments on the Eddie but I already have one so that will be interesting in the summer when the heat pump rarely comes on. Also like you I have looked at Tado to allow me to switch off radiators during the day in rooms that don’t get used. Not sure now if I should bother but like you I am becoming a bit of a geek on these things so am tempted.
Your figures do add up with the kwh, if you can maintain the efficiency curve you can sustain 300-400% efficiency. Pretty sure you can check the kwh output on the heat pump
Thank you for your detailed videos like my electric car journey lots of negative nelly''s who haven't researched but rather read the Daily Mail...... Your videos are very useful.
About to get a ASHP installed (have battery already) wouls love a video on how best to configure the ASHP ie how often run etc. I'm currently on gas boiler that's on for 2 periods a day except when really code then keep on all day (typically off over night)
I've got a similar setup to you, had a heat pump fitted this year and also doubled my battery to 24kWh, do you think your 19kWh battery is going to be enough to run the house for the day in winter after charging it at night on cheap rate? I'm just concerned my battery won't get me through the day, leaving me to run the heat pump on an expensive day time price. Thanks.
Your consumption may vary - I'd say my average consumption last winter was about 20kWh per day just for the heat pump (and on one day went over 50kWh), plus add about maybe 10-12kWh for the rest of the house. 19kWh of battery may struggle on days where you aren't generating much solar at all. I have an 8kWh battery, but use the Octopus Cosy tariff so at least I can recharge the household batteries in the afternoon as well as the morning, which helps.
When our boiler does start to fail… heat pump is going in. I ran all last winter at a flow temp of 40-45 degrees (as low as the boiler allows), so I’m pretty confident that the radiators are up to it.
Anyone seen the new deal from OVO, with a lower Kwh electricty rate (15p/Kwh), for supplying the heat pump. Not quite sure how they can do that mind you.
Interesting that a negative comment was made about triple glazing. It can be right for some people. If you replacing windows triple glazing is only slightly more expensive. While reducing heat loss, it gives greater comfort levels near the window, reduced condensation and sound penetration. Minimising uPVC by using large glazing units reduces cost and heat loss.
If I bought a very old EV and only drove it when charged by a 4kw solar installed in the UK, how far could I drive for free in a year... So if not bothered when to drive can wait few days between using car.. Is it the future.
Our SCOP is higher in the summer because we are heating water to a higher temperature than in the winter for heating. Overall figure for the year is 4.4, but ground source not air source.
Great video. Our gas boiler is on its way out. I have been contemplating a heat pump system. However, I don't have solar energy. Also, our roof needs to be re tiled. I've seen those roof tiles that are actually solar tiles, but I can't find anywhere in my area that does them. Can you direct me in the right direction because you seem to have far more knowledge about these things than I do. I'm 68 years old. I know that I won't see any savings by undertaking such projects because I'll more than likely be dead before I'll see any savings. Anyhow, l have followed your channel for a while now, and I always find what you have to say intriguing and very interesting. Many thanks for the effort you put into your productions. 👍
Those roof tiles are Tesla, I believe and if I were you I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole. Tesla are not renowned for their aftercare from what I've seen. There may be some who know much better than my hearsay information though but watch out for fan-boys to whom Tesla/Musk can do no wrong... Check out Oval energy for solar panels, they seem very professional and experienced by their videos.
I'd agree with @judebrown4103 and avoid the Tesla tiles, I'm not sure they're a great option just yet. A good alternative if you're having your roof re-tiled anyway and aren't too keen on the look of a typical solar panel installation might be an integrated system, which are less intrusive (although slightly less efficient that an installation on bars).
I love the idea that you are getting 20,000 miles of FREE car driving from your solar panels and battery storage, that is an enourmous saving when petrol is close to £2 a litre it must pay for itself in just a few years
From my calculations if you can achieve 400% efficiency you will break even with Gas, waiting for octopus to reduce the quote to replace my 19 year old gas boiler. Yes you will save £120 standing charge but you will spend it on service to maintain the warranty, currently I don't service the boiler and maintain it myself. Based on solar no batteries and tracker tariff.
Don't forget in those calculations that gas isn't 100% efficient, poorly set up systems (most of them in the UK) will only get 80-85% efficiency on gas, properly set up ones will get about 90%).
Great video. We have had an ASHP for nearly 3 years, and the thing a lot of people miss is how much warmer your home is compared to gas that most people run only for 6 or so hours per day. Accidentally I realised my Gen1 Nest thermostat had been harvesting my home temperature data for both the old gas boiler and the new ASHP so i have been able to compare the heat outcome before and after and the results are striking! I did a presentation to OVO smart tree house on this - I would be happy to share my extensive data with your channel should you wish.
Yes, sharing your data to this, or any other channel will be extremely informative and educational to others who may be considering a heat pump....or sceptical.
I am guessing the ASHP+18Kwh of batteries and Solar must have cost £25+ am I in the right ball park?
£25k install cost (ignoring the cost of two EVs) - So that's a 40 year payback, if they are saving £600 per year?
@@jonathanpearce3773you save way more than than
My heat pump (fridge freezer) has worked perfectly fine for decades! :)
Keep your fridge freezer door open and it will warm your kitchen. (if your kitchen is well insulated) ;)
As a 15 year installer of heat pumps, you have already addressed 90% of the FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt), before we have even hit half way through this video.👍
Who is letting a 15 year old install heat pump?
Hi. Can you see my comment today pls? I would value your thoughts as an installer. Many thanks.
Here in Denmark, where gas is counted in m3, which contains the same amount of energy as 1L of oil (about 10.3 kWh), we replaced our 15 year old Vaillant gas boiler with a Vaillant 7 kW heat pump (same UniTower system as you). We spent 4482 kWh on heating from march to march, priced at 0,15 GBP/kWh, to total price for a year was around 672 GBP.
In previous years with gas we used between 1300 and 1600 m3 of gas, which cost between 1 and 2 GBP / m3, so lets say 1,5. 1450 m3 of gas times 1,5 is 2100 GBP per year for heating with gas.
So even without solar panels, we’re still only paying around 1/4 of our old gas bill.
The same also goes for the EV, which so far has cost around 1/3 of what we paid to drive the “old” diesel car.
Doing the reverse math, 1450 m3 of gas is 14935 kWh. Divide that by 4482 and we get a COP value of 3.3. That’s the efficiency our heat pump has been running at during full a year.
Wow! As a person who is number blind I'm so impressed that you were not only able to make all these calculations but translated them into GBP. Thank you so much that's very encouraging.
In the UK, the gas price per kWh is around 4 times less than electricity, which is why many people will avoid changing their heating system to a heat pump. It would cost them more money for heating based on your numbers.
@@sdgelectronicsnatural gas in Denmark is heavily taxed as well as oil/gasoline/diesel, and to some extent electricity.
The loophole is that IF you have electrical heating (heat pump or resistive), then you don’t pay taxes of any consumption above 4000 kWh / year.
That also makes the heat pump your EVs best friend. Subsidies exist for people with EVs and no heat pumps, usually in the form of a payback scheme for kWh used by the car, which requires a separate meter in the charger.
You will be struggling to get a price per kWh for less than 0.30p so it might amount to more than double.
@@rabhaw2327 I have no idea how it works in the UK, but here in Denmark we have no nuclear power, and everything that isn’t generated by renewable sources is from gas turbines. On top of that, the electricity price is dictated by the most expensive source, which is usually gas. On a windy, sunny day we will have negative electricity rates, and on a dark, calm winter day we can pay up to €1.5/kWh (extremely rare!). The average price for the past 12 months has been around €0.35/kWh.
Don’t forget the savings in the gas daily standing charge so you’re saving over £100 in addition to the gas savings.
Just came here to say this. 👍🏻
Erm, what about the electricity standing charge?
@@SailingAquamarineYou already pay that even if have a gas boiler. You don't pay double electric standing charge just because you switch from a gas boiler to a heat pump.
No standing charge for lpg. Government has put these in 90% of houses in my village for free and give the sales guys a massive bonus for every house they get to sign up. So far it's half and half that people say they are ok but they are using double in electric and we haven't had a cold winter yet.
Couple of things, if you have essential and non essentials consumer units my Zappi differentiates between EV charge on non essential and house charge on essential via the app or the readout on the EV charger itself just tells your EV charge costs assuming off peak only
Second, I have never considered pay back time relevant, as I am fortunate to have had the funds for my battery and solar (no heat pump yet) so it is simply a comparison of 5% return at present on savings account less tax comparing to 15% saving on the running cost TAX FREE
Looking at your installation costs on a previous video the same principle applies though return about the same as a savings account, but again TAX FREE
Here’s a comparison. We live in NZ, we are fully electric, heat pump hot water, 2 EVs, 3.5Kw solar. Total annual consumption 5310 Kwh, cost $1075 nz. Eco house but not passive. No C/H ( not needed here) but 3 split aircon units for heating and cooling. TOU tariff which we use with one hour of power free each day.
Nice overview. We are in the process of getting an ASHP and have started upgrading our rads as recommended by the heat loss calculation. I’ve done 4 of the 10 that needed beefing up to run at 45C and below.
Firstly, thank you for this detailed cost analysis. I have few questions: 1. How many people take shower/day? 2. What temperature do you keep in the hot water cylinder? 3. Which company installed your HP? I am seriously considering the HP. I have 4KW PV, PW2 and EV6. I also have Octopus day/night tariff. I think this justifies to have the HP installed. Thank you.
A mate of mine has a Heat pump in a 400 year old stone cottage. Nice and warm inside with underfloor heating and a new well insulated roof. So they work well if they are designed correctly. Hafod in north wales did a top job
Do not get yourself a eat pump. My friend, they are very, very expensive and the radiators. Do not already get out. You need to keep your leap pump on for hours burning your electric away. Ask about ask other people who's got them stay a
@@stevenhensman2541and you're speaking from experience of actually owning a heat pump, are you?
@@stevenhensman2541stop scaremongering
Anyone think the cats are planning stuff together. They keep popping up on various YT channels that deal with EVs and related stuff. Btw, I have a cat so am perfectly fine with that.
Ok, but considering all of those other tweaks that you mentioned. I.e. solar panels, batteries, optimized gas system, etc. Best and most accurate, easiest test would have been to compare a year of gas vs a year for heat pump... assuming minimal price changes from one year to the other. Agreed... real world comparison is not easy.
At last, you have answered the question I've been asking for months - what is the lowest/average power consumption demand from a 5 kW heat pump. "200/300/400w" excellent, thank you! - this is what I need to know to size my home battery. All the spec sheets tell me the maximum output which will only be about 3% of my yearly heating cycle.
Hi EVM, how much in general would you use daily for the heat pump daily during winter. I'm trying to understand how much capacity is needed on the battery to power it during winter days.
Thank you for this very informative Video. We had the same Vaillant ASHP installed in April this year and are approaching our first winter with it.
One thing I did notice in your data though...you seem to be using quite a lot of electricity for hot water...🤔
I know the Unitower isn't as efficient as it could be (we have it as well) but it still seems high to me. What is your tank temperature set at and are you using the standard Vaillant legionella cycle?
Great video. I have many people always telling me they don't work and when I point out that we have one in a 200 square metre 220 year old stone house they don't believe we are warm enough. Last year Jan Feb and March cost us just for heating and hot water 400 quid on a 20p all day tarriff and that is far cheaper than how much oil we used previously. We are very happy and like you i do keep tweaking it. Also a big difference was fitting low e glazing units as ours were old original sealed units. That only cost a 1000 quid to do the whole house.
I've given up telling people they work in all properties you just have to use them correctly
Did you just replace the glass, and not the frames?
@fanfeck2844 yes that is correct. You can tell if you have low e by using the torch on a mobile phone. If you shine it from the inside out you get a series of reflections and on low e the second reflection will be different to the first third and fourth and this is because of the transparent metal layer on the inside of the inside piece of glass
My only criticism of the “white board of truth” is that it is based on your supply charges. Even tripling the cost looks good.
Trying to spec the solar battery needs and also considering a heat battery.
Sorry yes wasn't a very good answer just the sealed units were replaced
And yes. I posted this halfway through the video.
My 1970's 5 bedroom house had loft insulation but very little cavity as it had broken down. We used 3,333kWh to maintain 18c for the whole house and the house felt warm at all times, whatever the weather threw at us. Also did our hot water and at that time it was heated whenever it was needed. I am now moving to a night time water heating as i am on the same cheap overnight tariff.
Since running the ASHP for the first year, I have paid for removal and replacement of the cavity insulation, this will hopefully reduce my use by up to 30%.
Why did you remove the old insulation? Couldn’t you just top up? Is it expensive? Thanks
Unfortunately for us it was a spray in insulation from 1970’s and it had broken down and was disintegrating. Also there were many large sections of the walls that were not even containing insulation. Yes it was more expensive as the bigger cost was to blow out the old insulation. They removed bricks and fitted large suction tubes whilst dislodging the old insulation with high pressure air.
Then it was refilled with modern insulation.
@@Jaw0lfwow! That is a mega task just to upgrade your insulation.
Hopefully you will feel the benefit.
@@David-bl1bt Thanks and yes in brief testing it seems to be saving around 25-30%, so should be great.
Was that urea formaldehyde foam? What did the replacement cost? Thanks
Thanks for the update. I have solar and batteries (18.8kwh) and electric car. Heat pump is next on the list. You might also be interested in Ripple energy shares as this will drop your bills even further. I have Kirk hill and Derr il water shares .
Hi EVM. Great video as always. I love your Yorkshire dry sense of humour. One question for you - in winter how much max electricity (kWh) would your heat pump use in a day. I’ve got solar + 16.8kWh battery and want to know if the heat pump could run off the battery all day. Cheers, Roy
Those are very useful numbers, thanks for sharing. I am seriously impressed. I am heading in the same direction as you. I have Intelligent Octopus, I've had solar panels for 9 years, batteries for 7 years. Just upgraded by batteries so I now have 18kWh. Once I've run through this winter I'll be looking at moving to a heat pump on the basis it will run almost always on free or 7.5p electricity.
Me too. I’m still worried though about the need for 19kwh of batteries. It’s likely they’ll be essential to keep average £/kwh down in winter but still 18kwh is a big cheque..
I watched your "ad" for your sponsor with great interest. Why? Because you were NOT reciting their advertising info. The way you presented "YOUR" info on the product(s) was, IMHO, FAR MORE EFFECTIVE. I think, therefore, that the sponsor is getting far more "bang-for-the-buck" than from those other sponsorships with BORING info recitals. [I always FF through them.]. Good work!
great video as always. I am on of those people who has a heat pump that was not fitted properly. Ours is a ground source heat pump fitted around 2008 when our barn conversation was rebuilt. We bought the house 4 years ago, but only ran the heating over winter for 2 years due to the cost. We could use 3500KWH in a single month. The main reason we turned it off was that we were not getting any heat upstairs. Downstairs we have under floor heating which worked well, but the radiators upstairs were always cold. watching your videos, I am going to ask heat geeks if they have any locally trained reputable agents who can come out and look at our system and provide advise. I have looked at replacement for a more modern unit, but I don't want to spend any more money unless I know it will be well spent. equally, I would prefer not to replace a ground source heat pump with a air source heat pump if I can reuse the existing coils I have going into our field as ground source pumps are supposedly more efficient than air source. It's the heating that is the missing item for us now. we have 4kw of solar with a FIT tariff that pays nearly 2K per year. Another 4KW solar array that we fitted last year. A Tesla power wall 2 with gateway. a Zappi and Nissan Leaf - soon to be replaced with a model 3. Like you we do around 25K miles a year in the EV. I need to sit down and do the calculations, but I am confident our electric bill (we have no oil or gas) is less than the fit payment. cheers J
How do you heat the house now? I expect the flow temperature is fixed and is set too high, try and set it to 35C and just run it, should contribute and be very efficient, won’t be any good for the radiators upstairs, but at least it’s doing something. You can start turning it up and looking at the energy use. Disable any auxiliary/resistive heat mode.
@@edc1569 hi, last year we bought a load of logs and used them at both ends of the house. No heat upstairs during the winter except a couple of oil filled radiators. I did get an engineer in last summer to look at the unit from a company in Shropshire. he serviced it and said he could not see any way to improve the efficiency of it. It's a danfoss heat pump. I phoned the company to see if they had any advise but they no longer make heat pumps and so could not help. Not sure if it's an early model and not fitted well, whether our radiators have been calculated correctly for the house or something else altogether. I will look at the instructions and see how to do what you recommend. cheers
@@juttley72 This is not my area of expertise at all - but it strikes me that your problem most likely lies in combining under-floor heating (which I recall has to go no higher than 35 Celsius so that you don't cook yourself if you have a fall) and radiators that really need to be more like 50 Celsius, both on the same circuit. You would most likely need a split system, or run the floor at the end of the circuit, such that you have already lost 20 Celsius via the radiators upstairs.
@@ashtontechhelp thanks. Not sure if that is the issue or not, but not something I had considered. I can feel the floor is warm but not hot. Whereas the radiators are all very cold to the touch. I even tried touching the pipes going into the rads and they were also cold. I half wonder if somewhere there is a valve that has been turned off running to the radiators stopping heat getting through. Either way, when I calculated the likely cost of electric last year I decided to leave it switched off. Our house is very well insulated, but it still meant some cold nights and mornings. But we got through ok. thanks for taking the time to respond to my post. cheers John
@@juttley72 I think it's well worth having someone competent look at this. It seems pointless to have such a high-spec system sitting idle. A small amount of investment could result in a much more comfortable house. You should be able to use a cheap hand-held temperature measuring tool to get an idea of the floor temperature. You have likely got the system turned down so low that it's not even registering at the radiators. Might be worth turning it up to max, just to test whether it's sending round the whole system or not.
I've had a heat pump since 2009, and yours seems to be a lot more efficient than ours. Or perhaps your house is better insulated. Our electricity use (pre ev ) ran at between 10-12000 kWh (for the whole house). We've done something big regarding insulation this year, so I hope that will fall.
But I have never regretted getting it, and will replace it with a new one in another 10 years or so when it's worn out.
Good way to figure it out is look at how much gas you used previously, vs the electricity it’s using now.
Heat pumps have really gotten better the last few years. Hope your insulation helps, but don't forget to look at how how are running the heat pump. If it has to output at high temperatures, efficiency goes down much more quickly than a gas boiler.
Nice cat😂 I am an heating installer in the northwest and currently doing my heat pump/ solar thermal qualification. Glad to see some positive heat pump videos. Great infos thanks
Great informative video Andy. What make us your HP, how many bedrooms/floor area is your house and what’s the HW tank volume?
How much have you invested to achieve those running costs?
Another mortgage I would think 😂
If you watch his videos you will find he is quite explicit about his costs. There is no denying there are significant costs. Though not affordable for many people there are also many many families who spend the same on new kitchens, multiple foreign holidays, new sofas, new cars more frequently than they need. None of those things have any "payback" and none of those things reduce the carbon footprint of the family.
@MrAdopado if you take the investment costs and depreciate it over say 10 -15years and add service costs the energy cost quoted will be a lot more which then begs the question why you would do it in the first place
@@leerobinson4078this obsession with payback/return on investnent on heat pumps is really weird. It's never brought up for other things that may be more expensive but have no payback at all. Not every purchase in life is about payback. If people have reasons other than payback to buy a heat pump, then that's up to them. No-one is being forced to get one against their will.
@@leerobinson4078 Firstly he would do it to massively reduce his CO2 output. Secondly he has done it because his central heating boiler needed to be replaced so this was a good time to make the change. Why would you treat this spending differently to any other family spend? You don't make these calculations when you spend on a holiday trip, or a new kitchen or landscaping your garden or whatever. Your calculations only come into the picture if he would have invested the money instead of spent it on something else.
sorry if I missed what was the price of the heat pump
or the difference from a gas boiler to the heat pump
I am in Australia, we use a heat pump year round, but obviously lots more for heating....but we heavily insulated before puting it in our new home for efficiency.?.we have put in an approx 7 kw system by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries. Love it❤
Opps! More for cooling 😮😮😮😮😮
Thanks for the video. One thing not mentioned is the cost of a service and the intervals. Obviously a gas boiler has less moving parts and generally just needs a clean once a year.
Gas boilers need servicing for safety. You service heat pumps to ensure they are running the best they can - like a car you can do most of it yourself. Turn it off - remove the cover(s), remove debris, leaves etc, give the Heat Exchangers and fan a clean, and make sure electrical and water connections are snug - and in the latter no leaks. Turn it back on again. Refrigerant tests are more relevant in A2A as longer line runs but can be done every 2-4 years. Like a car, guarantees may require the unit to be serviced by one of the manufacturer's authorised engineers, after that you're free to do it yourself.
Thanks for your information.How much did all your equipment cost,,solar panels ,batteries ,heat pump including installation.
Thanks for a very informative video. And sharing your numbers. An indication of the house type and degree of insulation would be icing on the cake.
Hi. I’ve had a heat pump installed and would really appreciate a broad comparison of electricity consumption. I’m a big of of this channel and this was one of the main reasons I went with an ASHP.
My system is a Vaillant arotherm plus 7kw. It is a hybrid system with an 18kw gas boiler. 45 litre buffer tank. My house has 6 bedrooms over three floors, 20 rads, approx 230sq/m and the heat loss was calculated at 8.6kw. The design temp is 50° so the ASHP will struggle at 0° as it bival point has been set at 2°.
Last month the ASHP consumed 1000kWh. It was a particularly cold month with some days around -5°.
Also, the ASHP had a loud buzzing when it was very cold. Vaillant have changed the compressor but the day they changed it, it was around 0°. There was still an annoying buzz and the engineer told me that’s normal. Unfortunately nobody has posted this ASHP operating in very cold weather and I’m trying to understand if this is normal?
What’s people thoughts? Thanks
Really informative video, thank you.
Any chance you could describe how you used your ASHP for heating throughout the year(on all the time throughout the year, on all the time when the temp dropped below x°C, on for 8 hrs a day when the temp dropped below x°C etc) and to heat your water.
Could you also describe how much energy you used each month for the above - I’m trying to understand how the energy required fluctuates across the year.
Thanks.
Great video. However, I think it perfectly highlights the problems with heat pumps as it stands and why they will not be adopted unless things change significantly. You are the best possible case for a heat pump but from a cost perspective it is still marginal compared to a gas boiler.
1. If you were paying the current price cap of 27p/kWh your annual bill would be circa £930 - the same as gas.
-This is despite having a modern house and an optimal installation, as proven by the scop.
2. A tiny minority of people have the ability to buy cheaper electricity so it will never make financial sense. Why would somebody spend an additional 5k they probably dont have just to keep warm vs a gas boiler?
-It cost you (at a guess) an additional £4-5k for additional battery storage. If you add this into the calculation (amortised over 10-15yr) it costs more than gas (despite being an optimised installation).
3. The ROI comment is interesting, but it is very relevant because option 1 (gas) cost circa £3k and option 2 (heat pump) cost circa 8k (even with a 5k grant!). There needs to be an ROI on the 5k for the people who can afford it to compel them to do so. If there isn’t a positive ROI there is no point spending the additional money (all other things being equal). By comparison solar panels make more sense and have a healthy ROI vs doing nothing. Having said that, they still dont give an ROI as good as simply investing the money in a typical S&S ISA.
There is a lot of propaganda spread about heat pumps (noisy, unreliable, don’t work etc), but the real underlying problem is the economics dont stack up even in favourable cases. Until the economics problem is addressed they will forever remain a luxury gadget for heating.
You make some fair points but the video does recognise the issues of extra cost on batteries, solar etc. It also made the point that the spending was made without any expectation or requirement for "payback". If you have the money (many don't of course) it's a great way to spend it rather than on things that are instantly gone and add relatively little to your life. There is no doubt but that many of these choices are simply not available to lots of people. However, it is up to the people who can afford it and are motivated to be early adopters to demonstrate the feasibility (or otherwise) of low carbon alternatives to heating our homes with mains gas, oil or LPG. The technology will have a chance to mature and for prices to moderate which in time will benefit us all.
My heat pump was installed last month so it'll be interesting to see how I compare. My house was built in 2005 but in Colorado so almost everything else is different. I think it's funny that our HVAC stuff is all still rated in British Thermal Units and yours is not.
We no longer use feet, inches and pounds and ounces , gallons . We buy our petrol(Gas) in litres but drive in miles. Buy our milk in litres but drink pints at the pub.
@@WilliamLeigh-cl9bq uh-oh - standby for some push-back on this comment :)
@@WilliamLeigh-cl9bq😂some of us do 😂 I know that 30cm is a foot but I can still only think or picture something in feet, inches and yards! Same with pints and gallons but I no longer have to worry about gallons since getting the used ev last year. Only use miles per kWh for that and still get confused on RUclips channels that talk in kWh per 100kilometres or whatever it is...as you can tell that means nothing to me however you slice it!😂😅
@@WilliamLeigh-cl9bqwe drive in miles but walk and run in km
Have been quoted £2100 for a heat pump, rads and cylinder by Octopus Energy (after the £7500 BUS grant). Already have solar, EV and a battery so looking forward to the heat pump being fitted, if I get a similar saving to you I'll be well happy!!
hi... what size house do you have.. I have a 3 bed end terrace (extended).. I have been quoted £6060 .. but even after the increased grant my quote would still be £3500... Im just trying to verify systems/costs etc.. thanks
My house is a 3 bed detached@@jimmoriarty9714
we have solar panels 19 kw storage batteries, wood burner, tiny bit of oil plus dual inverter a/c which also blows warm air in winter, less than a kilowatt per unit we have 4 but rarely use them all, we live way out of town so its just like you said finding the blend thats best, we to did it because we wanted to not interested about returns to be honest.
Curious - what size home battery do you have?
I have 10kW but if moving over do ASHP, feel like I'll need atleast 20kW!?
Very interesting, we had our heat pump installed in July. We have solar, but no battery yet.
Batteries are the “game changer”
8:11 Next project for you - install an energy monitor on your big use items - heat pump, EV charger, oven, washing machines etc. Not really expensive - Emporia for £100, or better Open Energy Monitor for about £300.
Hi Richard he already has one in the app on the battery storage/pv system .
I know we, in the US, use a log of power. But with the rise in the UK electric prices, I expected much more cost in pounds. We have a more efficient Solar system and larger and our kw price for electricity is $0.138, but I paid way more for the year at $2652. That is also with two electric cars and no battery. Unfortunately, we have a larger house and have two HVAC units, of which only the new one is a heat pump. I know from watching the monitor that new HVAC only uses half the power the original unit does. And the resistive coil in the old unit, when on, is 4 kw.
Home battery and time of day tariffs…. Make all the difference
@@JohnR31415definitely the case in the UK and some US states.
Hi, I am seriously looking at changing my gas combi boiler to an ASHP. You give in your calculations the total electric used by the new heating system but could you give me what you gas consumption was for the year before the ASHP installation so that I can try and do a calculation along the same lines as yourself. I too have solar, 13.5Kw battery storage and a new EV so it makes sense to close the loop.
I have a gas furnace and water heater and range. Average 600 to 1000 kwh per month which is 7200 kwh per year. How do you manage using so little power? I am happy if I get a bill under $250.00 CAD per month.
Good video. For many £.030 is the figure we go for, so using your avgs as a guide, that would make my heating bill almost twice as much as a gas boiler. The heating is rarely used tho as im stingy and wear jumpers. I do have electric showers, would have to factor that into the Calcs. Yet you can see why the switch just isnt viable for many. Payback and savings on a heat pump just aren't there unless you've already invested £££ in solar and battery's. And your a high user.
Sorry, how are you doing your calculations to make it twice as expensive as a gas boiler? Gas boilers in the UK typically only achieve 85% efficiency (even if they say 90%+, that's only when they're running at a lower flow temperature - perfect for heat pumps). MCS minimum is a SCOP of 2.8 now. So with the current price cap (7p/kWh Gas, 27p/kWh Electricity): 100kWh of usable heat costs with gas 7p/.85 = £8.25. with a heat pump at the MSC minimum 27/2.8 = £9.64. Heat geek ones are averaging ~4.15 SCOP 27/4.15 = £6.50.
@@BenIsInSweden that's a lot of unnecessary information when he's handily provided all the figure's in the video. Most of us. Without the capital to install solar, batteries and a heat pump.will be paying £.0.30 pkwh. So taking the usage figure this example provides of £1046 for heating and hot water on the kWh they used. And then looking at how much my gas bill is. It's twice as expensive as my gas bill . Albeit my showers are electric so that's a hot water cost that is not part of my gas bill. But then I also have a gas hob. So that's a usage that is part of my gas bill. I don't need to start discussing merits about efficiency, green credentials, wastage etc. These are cold hard simple factual numbers that most us can relate to. How much will it cost. What's my payback time. My boiler could pack up tomorrow. I could be moving next year. I could maybe put my heating on longer and be warmer more effectively and theoretically cheaper with a heat pump. But thats all irrelevant when you feel in the actual numbers. The more electricity I use the more value for money the standing charge is. But that's not Saving me money.
@@zombiestyled even at 30p/kWh it doesn't make it twice as expensive. You can't compare his kWh usage nor his bill cost to yours unless you live in exactly the same house as him. You can estimate what a heat pump usage will cost based on *your* annual gas usage, but using someone else's figures compared to your gas bill isn't going to give you anywhere near accurate figures.
@@BenIsInSweden of course I can. I live in a semi. 3 persons. I can take his average. I'd wager his house is better insulated. And he isn't a high user of heating. So I'd guess his usage is on the economical side too. He did a comparable gas usage video a while back too. So the useful numbers are there. And as stated already, if my usage is less then the payback period is even longer.
@@zombiestyled I mean, you can, but it's totally wrong. Even the location of the house makes a difference, and you've already said you're stingy and wear jumpers, whereas EVM probably keeps his home at a regular ~20-21C. As I said, the main way of calculating what a heat pump would cost you is by using what you use in gas, working out the heat energy required, and how much that would approximately cost with a heat pump.
Very informative, doesn’t the car charger have usage data
it will be necessary for you to factor in depreciation on your batterys and inverters which for 19kw ? about £!5 to 20k of kit needing replacing every 10 -12 years or have I got this wrong ? Apologies if so.
Very wrong and in the video.
Plus what about depreciation of a gas boiler? Or anything for that matter.
The Major problem i have is We have a large window and patio doors on the rear wall, very very limited space down the side of the house and very close to next door and have a really rely small utility room, So where are all these huge tanks going to go? Can just about get the boiler in now?
They can come in little separates. I just went for that.
Obviously your batteries play a part in powering the ASHP during the day. With all normal usage etc how much is left by end of day on a particularly cold one? (I saw on your other video 38kwh used (some of that is during the night so obviously battery is charging), but you only have 19kwh storage)
For 2-4 weeks a year the batteries run out before the cheap period restarts. Depends on how cold it is.
Earliest I've seen it is 3-4pm when it runs out. but it's for a such small part of the year it doesn't have any affect.
fitting a heat pump to a flat/apartment is much more difficult unless the complex has a central pump fitted for all of the flats and even then it quickly becomes impracticable - I'm not against heat pumps or EVs but it really is very difficult for flat owners/renters
Agree, but for flats and apartments we really should be pushing towards have central heating systems. Far more efficient than lots of individual devices
Renters shouldn't be installing their own heating system ;-). For flat owners, ASHPs can be wall mounted, pretty much like air conditioning units.
Which is why in the Netherlands, local Councils now have a legal duty to establish community solutions. The British fetishes with the free market and mostly small scale landlords won't serve those in high density housing, including most buildings converted to flats. We are sleep walking, with no societal leadership. But then the Prime Minister just got a whole electricity supply added to heat his pool.
Hi thanks for the video. Can you tell me how big your water tank is and how many KWh used to heat the tank on a given day? Also how much does 1 hour of heating consume on average. Thanks
Can I ask if you happen to know if octopus do a good job with heat pump installations? Just got a quote for £500 (nothing wrong with gas boiler, but would like to get off gas), but have no idea where to look for this as only just started doing the research. Thanks.
Thanks for the informative video. My question is a bit more mundane, but in all these ASHP videos everyone seems to have space for a plant room where all the pipework etc goes. In our 3 bed semi there is no extra space like this, so where would we put it? Our gas boiler lives in the old airing cupboard upstairs and I'm assuming this is no good. Thanks
They come in separates.
Installer should be able to give options.
Interesting video thanks. Goes to show electrification is the way to go if you go all in. Our ASHP costs more as we don't have variable tariffs or a battery but my 16kW ASHP is using around 2200kWh per year...Could you give a kWh/SQM especially for space heating?
I have a hybrid system (new boiler and heat pump)...is it better to keep the system running on manual rather than setting times to keep house at more constant temperature?
Great video. Shows that this is the way to go. Also, your point about choosing the right installer is spot on. Lots of idiots spouting lies who have no idea about how to install heat pumps trying to push false narratives.
Genuine question- I’ve watched a fair few videos about heat pumps and one thing I’ve noticed is they all seem to have a garage or huge outbuilding to house the equipment required. What if you don’t have a garage or outbuilding to house all this? What if you have a normal house with (if you’re lucky) a small laundry room. Where would all the equipment go? Thanks.
They come in separate units too. Doesn’t have to be all in one.
We have a similar setup for solar and battery but currently don't have an Ashp and are thinking of installing one can you give me an idea of how many kwh a day they use in the winter I am trying to estimate how much more battery storage we need.
There’s a video in the channel with all the winter details.
I didn’t hear you say how much you batteries and inverter cost and whether you factored them cost into your calculations, and how much solar you may generate throughout the year and the size of solar panel array you have.
Would I be right in thinking you have an air-source heat pump there? If so, I know they work down well below normal British winter temperatures, but on those exceptional occasions, what is your backup? Does your water heater have the capability for gas as a secondary option? I know they have this in the states, but then they tend to heat / cool air with their heat pumps and then blow it around the house in ducting rather than heating water and piping it around in radiators. Or do you just have an electric element in the water circuit?
They work well below the lowest ever recorded temperature in UK history.
What backup is needed?
The UK is in the situation where a backup isn't really required. The arotherm plus is still able to operate down to -20C (technically -25C, with a further reduced flow temperature range), and depending on the design temperature will still heat a home and provide DHW too - an immersion heater in the cylinder might be needed for anti legionella cycles at that point, but I think most in the UK if temperatures dropped that low there are more pressing matters than sanitising DHW.
Straight to the point video! Thank you it was very informative :)
A great video as ever. I have 9.6kWh battery storage. I am trying to work out how much more battery I might need if I get a heat pump. Octopus have quoted a 4kWh heat pump.
Think like an inside out Fridge/Freezer.
Who, personally, turns their freezer on/off depending on whether they are in the room, or it's cold outside - NoBody!
Heat pumps are just inside-out fridge/freezers with a few more controls to 'fiddle with'.
Yes, it's hard work unlearning all of granny's way of keeping jack frost at bay that assumed draughty poorly insulated houses and short bursts of intense heat, and veg stored in a pantry. Set it up, switch it on, relax.
Absolutely great point about "how long to pay back" never even considered it from that angle
I run 2 air to air heat pumps here in Sweden. Both installed 7 years ago, one in the house and one in the workshop. The workshop one went wrong and stopped producing heat (or A/C). Finally found a man to come and have a look and read the fault code flashing. He thinks it needs a new invertor card in the outside unit, price around £800 plus a return visit for installation. So all in all the repair will likely cost £1200 for an already slightly old pump, versus 2500 for a new one, plus the downtime, waiting for the first visit, waiting for the part/second visit. When I looked at the repair manual I found out that these units are pretty complicated - invertor cards, compressor, sensors, fan motor, electric expansion valves etc etc. So for anything other than a simple fix, they're just scrapped and replaced.
Like a gas boiler here then.
With your "finally found a man", are you saying that you had difficulty finding someone? Even where I am in a rural area I'm spoilt for choice - basically the majority of plumbers in the area can do heat pumps as well, and most of them deal with any heat pump.
From 7 years ago it could have been one still on r410a or a blend, which comes with some (legal) challenges if refrigerant needs extracting and refilling.
@@BenIsInSweden Yes, difficult to even find someone that answers the phone or emails. They're more interested in selling a new pump and installation, especially when most of the installation work is already done - the hole, pipes, wires, konsol, and the installation price is the same as a completely new installation. It's a racket really when spares prices are so high. A compressor is 16000 SEK, fan motor 4000 etc. I've gone back to direct electric. No installation, no waiting around, virtually nothing to go wrong, and if it does, a quick trip to Jula or Biltema and you're up and running again in minutes, not waiting for some loser to visit and scratch his head whilst quoting telephone number repair prices. Sure, electric use is higher, but the investment price is much lower, and the reliability and convenience is unbeatable.
@@davidnorton5887 since you've said no installation, I guess you've gone for plug in ones and 240V. You might want to check your main fuse size, as it may only be 16 or 20 amp. 2 2000W 230V rads running on the same phase with a 16A main fuse will blow it. So whilst your idea might sound appealing, it may end up causing you more hassles and potentially more costs if you need to upgrade your main fuse to support them. If you don't have intimate knowledge of your house electrics, it's probably worth investing in a tibber pulse, so you can monitor whether you are at risk of blowing one of the main fuses.
If you install underfloor heating after a heat pump install would that pose any problems?
Nope.
WOW! Either heat pumps in UK are much more efficient than in US or your home is extremely insulated, and your system was designed and installed by heat pump skilled team. My operating cost is about 2.5 times most expensive oil heat costs. And, comfort is horrible. 15degree difference from room to room and from floor to ceiling.😟
All those things plus our homes are much smaller and each room is much smaller so easier to heat. I suspect that is the main difference in fact.
Are you able to share any graphs of an average day in December for eg of how many kwh’s you use to heat your home and how many total radiators you have?
See the previous HP videos in the channel for all that.
I love your videos as they influenced the solar set up I have, but can you provide some figures on hourly electricity consumption of the heat pump please? I’m also on octopus intelligent and trying to work out if I need a larger battery.
Have a look at the winter video. I think it might be in that.
@ElectricVehicleMan thanks for the response. Im afraid that video doesn't go into hourly use.
1.5 kWh for the heat pump is probably the most I’ve seen in a given hour on the coldest day.
How many m3 of gas were you using before the heat pump was installed? Because that would be interesting to place next to the kWh usage, which is of course basically indirectly talking about the COP and things such as the isolation of your house. But it helps to get a feeling.
I think I said 12k-13k in the video.
@@ElectricVehicleMan Sorry, must have missed that somehow. Appreciate that you still took the time to reply. 🙏
I can beat your stats with some old technology (gas central heating and electricity) where recently I sourced all my energy for a year at ZERO net cost. This is a two bedroom medium size flat with a new Bosch Boiler. I have the Apple Homepod setup with Philips hue lighting and some of the latest appliances from Bosch. My battery storage is Ecoflow and I am well served by legacy supplier British Gas who run Peak Save.
What about mentioning the upcoming New Octopus Cosy HP which will be free for most 3 bedroom houses, even if you have installation of new hot water tank? So, for people who were going to replace their gas boiler anyway, that saves them say £4000, which would pay for some battery/solar installation.
I have solar panels and one battery, I have a gas shower would I have to keep it running all the time too have hot water?
No. They use a hot water tank.
@ElectricVehicleMan but how do you heat that up. If your heat pump is off.
@ Schedule it to fill the tank at whatever time you want.
Just like any other system with a tank.
I am moving to a new build in the next 6 weeks. First time heat pump user. Any major tips? Underdloor heating. No solar yet. Rads upstairs
.samsung system.i believe
I'm without octopus go, I have only 4 hours at 9p kWh . How would I get the tariff you have with 6 hours ? I have a air to air airsource heat pump it's great and when it's cold it uses about 4kwh a day to heat my house to 19 degrees c , and best bit is it's a second hand unit , was a shop heater so it was very cheap to buy and cost £100 to get it fitted. I'm thinking a battery to store power when it's cheap. What's the cost and how do you connect it to a smart meter. Thankyou for sharing
a valiant effort
Great video. Would you recommend getting solar with battery before a getting a heat pump installed? Or which is better to get done first? Thanks!
Yes. Solar and battery are the reason EVM is saving money. On it's own, a heat pump costs about the same to run as a boiler. (Just compare the price of gas and electricity and the COP of the heat pump.) The price of gas vs electricity is likely to change in 5-10 years, and then heat pumps will be cheaper to run.
All very well quoting this and that but the fact remains airsource heat pumps freeze around zero and take heat constantly from your home to defrost . I wish it was different but that is my experience.
Ah yes, half truths. They don't "freeze" around zero. Defrosting (which starts at around +5C) clears the coils of built-up frozen condensation that reduces air flow, and takes a long time for it to build up to take effect again, defrosting takes about 5 minutes every 1-2 hours. A properly set-up A2W heat pump won't make a noticeable difference in doing the defrost, and if it will, a buffer can be used for defrosting so it doesn't affect the temperature inside the house. A2A systems turn the fan off inside so they don't take a noticeable amount of heat from indoors.
I have a heat pump in a wimpy no fines (concrete) home. I also have solar and battery storage and ev. All seem to be working well.
What calculations do i need to do to confirm how efficient the heat pump is . Or is there a website where i can check this. Thanks
You can only really compare against previous consumption unless you install something like a Sontex Superstatic heat meter on the flow from the heat pump.
Why with heat pumps on the scheme , do the fit a combi as well?
Do you still use gas for cooking, or have no gas supply at all?
So is worth getting a heat pump if you want to replace your gas boiler and don’t have solar panels or batteries???
What company did your survey and installed your Vaillant heat pump?
What temp to you have your heating set at please? The engineers set mine at 55° and it used so much electricity last winter i got a nasty shock with the bill. Thankfully the heat assistance payments were made so that covered part of the 'damage'. I went from using 30Kwh per month in my home to almost 1000Kwh per month over the winter!! Shocked at the expense. It's an 8Kw heat pump. It shouldn't have to work so hard? I'm reducing the heating temp to 35° this year to try to save money. I also see a setting on the control unit that can be set. It's called the Compensated Target. Input AT = 20°C. Slope = 1.1. Offset =50.0 Compensation Target = 28°C..... it's set at 'OFF' at the minute. Can i adjust this for more efficiency? (Ps. I have solar panels, smart emersion, Economy 7 export meter, & 2.5Kw battery).... I really shouldn't have such high electricity use so i really believe the system has been set wrong?? Help please? 😁👍
40c flow temp.
Your heat calculations should tell you what’s needed.
Or get a heat geek up to optimise the system. Couple of hundred quid maybe but you’ll get that back many times over with savings etc.
Ah. That's maybe going to increase efficiency if I've set it at 35°, (which is minimum), but is warming the house ok at present. Outside ambient temp's are still quite high. (Still averaging double figures at night). I do need a heat geak! Fitter out last week to service the one year old system...I really think the lower heat settings aren't understood by some in the industry tbh 😔 I need to know how a system works but the parameter settings are well outside my understanding so I'm a bit frustrated to find the ASHP so expensive. Summink ain't right that's for sure. 👍
Very informative and a great example of how investing in your system makes your house cheap to run.
However I'm sorry to say that I thought Homer's contribution was the best. 😊
Thanks for your video. It has been very helpful. I think I am about 18 months behind you and much of what you say is my thinking too. It is good to get reassurance. Sorry if this has been said before. In your property how many kWh does the heat pump use on a cold day? I am sizing my battery storage and trying to cover as much heat pump load as possible. I believe you have 19 kWh battery storage now. Im looking at 2x Power walls and im just curious how long this will cover the HP load
All info is in the winter video for that.
Ah excellent.. so on average for a cold December was approx 22kWh and your coldest day 32kWh. Im going to guess that your house has slightly better insulation as you have a modern house. Mine from 1962 all be it with modern windows and a mix of modern and older insulation. Also I dunno how big your house is. Mine is 206sqM with 13 radiators. But Im thinking 2 powerwalls is in the correct ball park. Thanks again for the eco playlist it has been very useful. I agree with your comments on the Eddie but I already have one so that will be interesting in the summer when the heat pump rarely comes on. Also like you I have looked at Tado to allow me to switch off radiators during the day in rooms that don’t get used. Not sure now if I should bother but like you I am becoming a bit of a geek on these things so am tempted.
Your figures do add up with the kwh, if you can maintain the efficiency curve you can sustain 300-400% efficiency.
Pretty sure you can check the kwh output on the heat pump
Great video. Keep spreading the word.
Thank you for your detailed videos like my electric car journey lots of negative nelly''s who haven't researched but rather read the Daily Mail...... Your videos are very useful.
About to get a ASHP installed (have battery already) wouls love a video on how best to configure the ASHP ie how often run etc. I'm currently on gas boiler that's on for 2 periods a day except when really code then keep on all day (typically off over night)
As always,brilliant,simple FACTS,every one is different.
I've got a similar setup to you, had a heat pump fitted this year and also doubled my battery to 24kWh, do you think your 19kWh battery is going to be enough to run the house for the day in winter after charging it at night on cheap rate? I'm just concerned my battery won't get me through the day, leaving me to run the heat pump on an expensive day time price. Thanks.
Your consumption may vary - I'd say my average consumption last winter was about 20kWh per day just for the heat pump (and on one day went over 50kWh), plus add about maybe 10-12kWh for the rest of the house. 19kWh of battery may struggle on days where you aren't generating much solar at all. I have an 8kWh battery, but use the Octopus Cosy tariff so at least I can recharge the household batteries in the afternoon as well as the morning, which helps.
So how much have you spent on cars and all the upgrades?
Great video, very informative. Can we have more of the cat?
When our boiler does start to fail… heat pump is going in.
I ran all last winter at a flow temp of 40-45 degrees (as low as the boiler allows), so I’m pretty confident that the radiators are up to it.
@JM11663 mine is going to be more than that - need probably 7kW to cope with the coldest weather.
Also want to go mixergy (or similar) for the tank
Anyone seen the new deal from OVO, with a lower Kwh electricty rate (15p/Kwh), for supplying the heat pump.
Not quite sure how they can do that mind you.
Interesting that a negative comment was made about triple glazing. It can be right for some people. If you replacing windows triple glazing is only slightly more expensive. While reducing heat loss, it gives greater comfort levels near the window, reduced condensation and sound penetration. Minimising uPVC by using large glazing units reduces cost and heat loss.
Not a negative, just not worth upgrading existing windows for the heat loss benefit. If you need them anyway, then fine.
If I bought a very old EV and only drove it when charged by a 4kw solar installed in the UK, how far could I drive for free in a year... So if not bothered when to drive can wait few days between using car.. Is it the future.
Our SCOP is higher in the summer because we are heating water to a higher temperature than in the winter for heating. Overall figure for the year is 4.4, but ground source not air source.
Great video. Our gas boiler is on its way out. I have been contemplating a heat pump system. However, I don't have solar energy. Also, our roof needs to be re tiled. I've seen those roof tiles that are actually solar tiles, but I can't find anywhere in my area that does them. Can you direct me in the right direction because you seem to have far more knowledge about these things than I do. I'm 68 years old. I know that I won't see any savings by undertaking such projects because I'll more than likely be dead before I'll see any savings. Anyhow, l have followed your channel for a while now, and I always find what you have to say intriguing and very interesting. Many thanks for the effort you put into your productions. 👍
Those roof tiles are Tesla, I believe and if I were you I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole. Tesla are not renowned for their aftercare from what I've seen. There may be some who know much better than my hearsay information though but watch out for fan-boys to whom Tesla/Musk can do no wrong...
Check out Oval energy for solar panels, they seem very professional and experienced by their videos.
I'd agree with @judebrown4103 and avoid the Tesla tiles, I'm not sure they're a great option just yet. A good alternative if you're having your roof re-tiled anyway and aren't too keen on the look of a typical solar panel installation might be an integrated system, which are less intrusive (although slightly less efficient that an installation on bars).
I love the idea that you are getting 20,000 miles of FREE car driving from your solar panels and battery storage, that is an enourmous saving when petrol is close to £2 a litre it must pay for itself in just a few years
From my calculations if you can achieve 400% efficiency you will break even with Gas, waiting for octopus to reduce the quote to replace my 19 year old gas boiler. Yes you will save £120 standing charge but you will spend it on service to maintain the warranty, currently I don't service the boiler and maintain it myself. Based on solar no batteries and tracker tariff.
Don't forget in those calculations that gas isn't 100% efficient, poorly set up systems (most of them in the UK) will only get 80-85% efficiency on gas, properly set up ones will get about 90%).