Lots of comments saying I'm full of nonsense about open differentials having a 50/50 torque split! And while it's true that I've made plenty of mistakes, this fortunately isn't one of them. Here's some great content clarifying why locked differentials have varying torque splits, and why open diffs are always 50/50. 4WD Systems (and why locked diffs vary torque) - ruclips.net/video/TotrUUuYOM4/видео.html Open vs Locked Torque Split - ruclips.net/video/_HOa0aRZYpw/видео.html Open Diff Torque Split - ruclips.net/video/gBHmWZcnWwM/видео.html
@@EngineeringExplained Yeah, I don't recommend track mode in the snow, unless you are racing on a closed course. You want the nanies to keep you safe, and you shouldn't be pushing the boundaries on public streets. That being said, the Tesla Winter Experience in Finland 2019 looks friggin amazing, and I would love to see this car in rally cross.
Wow, I can't see shoe tracks coming from either side! I think he got out on the passenger side, then walked in the rear track out of frame. (Not mirrored because of where the tow hitch cover is)
Also weight. Ground clearance is usually irrelevant unless you're offroading in the snow or you have a super car that struggles not hitting when dry. All the weight of that heavy Tesla is a big advantage in the snow. Haha snow tires when you live in lowland CA? I thought I was a nerd...
@@g3mccotter my city barely plows. Basically only the main road through town and the road that goes by the court house and to the school. They leave about 18 inch high packed snow in the intersections of those roads. So clearance is also issue if your city is a pos about snow removal.
Snow tires are definitely number one. As a Professional Canadian™, if you're in a province that doesn't require them you can always see which idiots didn't get them on the first heavy snowfall, slipping every which way, while almost any old car with good snow tires does fine. A Yaris with winters on will plod up a hill better than a jeep without winter tires. Secondary to that is car weight and other features, and of course driver attention is always important.
tipoomaster I used to always just get all-seasons. Had a BMW 335i, threw some winters tires on it, it absolutely destroyed our front wheel drive Camry and awd crossover in the snow. To those who haven’t tried dedicated snows, you will be amazed. You don’t know what you are missing until you try them.
Winter tires help but majority of it is driver skill. Know how recover before you fully start to slide, don't drive faster than your car can handle, don't make sharp maneuvers(sharp defined by the amount of snow/ice), maintain momentum uphill and you'll find you are faster and more stable than 90% the drivers out there. The 10% faster(and stable) than you will be the guys driving well and with winter tires..
@@DmitriyLaktyushkin You are right, the driver also makes a difference, but I'm just saying number one difference to make is the tires. Of course it's no substitute for having your wits about you.
I agree, as someone who lived in the snowiest place on earth (aomori japan), where it seems like 50% of people will total their car in the first winter there. Never be cheap with tires. Either run summer tires, or summer and winter tires, if you have winter. Tires are more important than brakes, HP, downforce, or any other bull that people put on their car to enhance the performance. Every performance metric on every car will always only ever be able to perform at the level that the tires can handle, so maximize grip, and don't be cheap at least with tires.
consider yourself lucky, snow is really bothersome, creates a whole bunch of problems, there is so much snow here i Canada that we don't have anymore space to plow it off, i can literally walk to get on my rooftop, my windows are completely covered by snow, so almost no sunlight getting in the house. i hate winter...
You're watching this because it's new to you and interesting to you as well. Why? Because you're in Florida, you're 31, and have never seen snow for yourself. You should go north sometime, and experience snow. Throw snow balls, make snow angels, go down a snowy hill on a sled, powerslide around in an AWD car. All of these things are fun and you should try them sometime.
Up here in Canada we call what you're driving on slush. It's what happens after the salt/sand trucks and plows have been out. Ice is what we play hockey on.
We call a mix of snow and water "slush." These comments are very typical of RUclips haha, everyone has to one up how cold the place they live is, deep the snow is, strong the wind is, etc. etc.
@@kam_iko Depends on the studded tires. As far as I am aware on the consumer side non studded winter tires are actually better now, but if you are going to buy a rallycross tire (actual racing tire) the studded ones are superior in snow, but also very not street legal.
Have the same tires on my PM3+... They are awesome but took over a month to ship to me since there's such a low stock of them. Much, much better steering feel compared the the blizzaks I have on the P100D
This is one of the best Tesla reviews for those of us that use a car in snow. Sometimes when I swap my tires at Halloween, often the tire guys say you don't need it. Then I show them where i drive and on the snow tires and rims go. As a volunteer firefighter, getting stuck in snow is not an option. I had been debating on the model 3, this sold me big time on it.
Thanks for posting this! I bought an M3P last year and live in Utah. Just purchased some new wheels and Nokian winter tires, and great to see that the car is still a ton of fun in the snow
One other benefit of the Model 3 in winter driving compared to other cars would be the low center of gravity due to the battery mounting. It helps to reduce the dynamic load transfer during acceleration, braking, and turning. This keeps a more even distribution of load across the tires. My BRZ isn't great in the snow, but the low CG makes it difficult to upset the chassis. The 50/50 front/rear weight distribution is also contributes a lot to the good grip - again by allow the tires to share the load equally.
We have found the same thing... the 3.2 Carrera has the Alpins and they are really good. Great on super cold and dry too (which is most of the winter here). The 996TT has the Pirelli (285s on the rear can be hard to find) and they are pretty good, but I would rank them below the Michelins, We had Blizzaks in the Boxster and MINI and they are the best on black ice, but hard and noisy and wear super fast. Depends a bit on your area a lot. Wow! Really pretty ride :) Super cool to learn more about the Tesla. Great video! Thanks!
I got the T sportsline 18" TST Flow Forged Tesla Wheel and Michelin Xice3. I have never been in a car that handles so well in the snow and ice. There is a 40 foot ice slick on the hill right in front of my house. Most cars and trucks get half way then slide down sideways. My wife has done the same spot over 10 times with not a single slip of the tires. It’s amazing.
@@EngineeringExplained In case what Ecospirder5 was getting at was missed, since he's not explicit about it, the T-Sportline 18" rims were designed explicitly to fit the Model 3 Performance. Over the calipers and have the necessary lathed out bit at the back of the center hole. They sell them with or without their choice of winter tires bundled. Not exactly cheap at $1200 for the set of rims but they look pretty good, are decent weight (about 21lb each, same as the Aero rims sans/cap), and that's in an expected price range of what flow forged, for making barrel room, is going to run. If I had a Performance, instead of the LR-D that I do, I might get those rims even for a set of summer tires. I'm a big fan of less rim, more rubber. I dislike the nervous feeling I get worrying about bent rims, and I like the lighter, lower rotational mass wheel you normally get with smaller rims and larger sidewalls. There are a few other quality 18" rim options for the P but nothing cheaper that I know of.
A wheel on each corner is the way to go for max grip. Tesla with the twin motors and ABS traction gives the next best at the expense of brake wear if you use it a lot.
I lived in New England for 15 years. After I got stuck in a snowstorm I learned a lesson that changed my life. Have a good all-wheel drive car and a dedicated set of rims with snow tires ready to change for the winter. On my second huge snow storm, I was navigating around stuck cars on I-495 driving an Audi A4 Wagon with snow tires. Thing was a tank. Helped an young couple take a baby to the Hospital and an old lady that abandoned her car
Another variable you may have overlooked is the width of rim/tire. Getting a designated set of winter rims/tires that are intentionally narrower than stock will greatly help in snowy winter driving. Instead of sitting on the snow, you'll be cutting through it. You don't want "snow shoes" on a car. You want those on the bottom of your feet so you don't sink into deep snow and get lost forever. LOL
@@EngineeringExplained - What is the diameter of the brake rotors on the performance model? I was surprised to see on my 2018 Tiguan with 17" wheels that VW engineers were able to shoehorn a 13.4" rotor in there. On my past vehicles, that required an upgrade to 18" wheels.
@@Uberragen21 13.3" I believe. I know that the brakes are 13.x" but I don't remember the exact diameter. There are a limited number of 18" wheels which will just BARELY fit over the caliper, it is an extremely tight fit, but not all of them will, so you definitely have to check in the model 3 community if anyone has fit the wheel on a P3D or not, or if the wheel is made to fit. I would say if T-Sportline says the wheel fits, it should fit, since they make parts specifically to fit the model 3. Some after market wheels will require a spacer as well, because there is a small lip on the wheel hub that prevents some wheels from properly fitting. This also shouldn't be an issue so long as the wheels being purchased are meant to fit the car. It is also possible to buy wheels "used" but not really used as so many tesla owners buy aftermarket wheels, you can pick up basically a brand new set of tesla wheels between 18"-20" easily that have functionally never been used sometimes as cheap as $1000 including the OEM tires, but I wouldn't expect to see any of the michelin pilot 4S out there for obvious reasons. Its worth checking ebay for used tesla wheels, particularly the 19" variant for winter tires.
or you could also buy one of the best studless winter tire nokia hakkapeliitta R3 tires for you model 3 performace (tire that tesla offers in norwey sweden and finland for all model 3)
@@BerchBG even after they cheated the tyres they make are best tires you can buy with your money. Allways driven with Nokia studded and only brand that holds 3 winters. Other brands loose the studs after 1 or 2 years.
On my Performance Model 3 I bought a set of 19" Braelin BR 10's on Continental WinterContact P 830's and I'm having a ridiculous amount of fun up here in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada in the winter !
The most important factor in winter driving is knowing how much traction you have at any given moment. Steering feel, etc. That's why my E90 (with xdrive) was the best winter vehicle. I ran the all-season OEM tires year round in Winnipeg and it was never a problem with snow, ice, whatever. I did replace the tires before they were worn, so I always had decent tread and the rubber never dried out. Great channel Jason!
Hey I'm dead set sold on Subi AWD!!! no other system covets synergy like it. I haven't watched this vlog yet however I would love to see a worthy contender - and on with me watching this Thank you so much in advance for this opportunity to review your engineering perspective on Tesla
This is exciting me impressively! uncommon practice is to meter the gas throttling through sliding in snow ~ that's how you drive a Subi and apparently also in Tesla AWD. The only way you can get stuck is to "Belly out" as in you can drive in 5" of snow/mud with 5.5" clearance but hit a 7" drift/rutt and it packs under the vehicle
For snows, always use the smallest rim that will fit over the brakes and go with the narrowest rim and tire width that is practical for the vehicle. If you try to preserve your dry performance characteristics, you will compromise bad weather performance ... which is the whole point of dedicated winter tires.
Regarding non-Tesla tires, is there any noticeable difference in noise in the cabin? Tesla tires have foam on the inside to absorb road noise and keep the cabin as quiet as possible. Any thoughts on how much of a difference that makes? Would love to see an experiment testing the decibel difference.
I've been VERY impressed with the Alpin PA4's. They come in an 18 inch variant as part of the winter wheel and tire package for the Focus RS, and in the dry, they handle pretty close to the OEM Pilot Super Sports, and as far as snow and ice concerns, they're no Blizzaks, but they work pretty damned well. Only con i've found is theyre a bit loud.
Good stuff. It's really nice to see how much of a kick you're getting out of driving the new Tesla. Neat explanation of inherent ABS in regen braking. I had assumed you'd have to use low regen in the snow. I think the ultimate AWD system is an EV with a separate motor for each wheel, and that's what Rivian are doing in their upcoming pickup and SUV. Model X has air suspension with up to 8.9" of ground clearance, so it should be even better in the snow than Model 3.
Heat is fine, plus heated seats. Hard to say at this moment how much it affects battery life. In the Leaf, if you were to use heat for the entire battery charge, you'd lose about 7-10 miles of range (off of 150-160).
@@EngineeringExplained I live where we can easily see winter temps of -45f for a few days in a row, and -20s every night is somewhat common. This is why I ask. Just wondering if it would be up to THAT task. We are weighing the options here and the model 3 is something we are pondering. A lot of imports gassers can't keep the windshield unfogged at these temps. So yeah this becomes a rather important factor for us.
@Anton Zuykov While driving the Model 3 it actually uses waste heat from the motors and inverters to warm the battery, no dedicated heater, so it's a bit better than S/X. When parked, it will activate the motor coil to generate heat in very cold temperatures, which is a bit worse than S/X. The cabin heater is 6kw (might need 6kw constant at -45f, much less at -20f) and I think the heat that can be produced by the motor/inverter is also around 6kw. The gist is, if you can plug it in, and preheat it, you can get back a bit of the loss.
@@wolvenar If you can charge at home, it's probably won't be an issue. The heaters don't use that much power compared to what it takes to move around that almost 2 tons of metal. And you can use the heated seats to save power, those use a lot less power. I think it's like 400W vs. 2-4kW. Heated steering wheel is also nice, but I don't know if it's available in the Model 3. What takes a big toll on the range is leaving the car outside and unplugged. You can lose 5-10% per day and driving will use more power too. And the huge advantage over ICE is that you can turn on the heaters remotely, and in just a few minutes all ice melts and the cabin is comfortably warm. Plus the battery heats up to optimal temperature too. And if you can do this while the car is plugged in, it won't cost you any range.
First thing I do in my Golf R when it snows is turn off all of the traction stuff. IMO knowing what the car will do is much better than some system unexpectedly taking all of the power away.
I hear a lot of people say that these Tesla's are the best cars that have ever been made... The more I watch and learn about them, the more I'm starting to believe it.
If you have home charging, I definitely would put them at the best value ever for your dollar. It's like owning a sports car that has lower maintenance/fuel costs than a Prius. No gas station visits the 99% of the time you aren't road tripping. No de-icing your car ever in winter with just a little bit of planning, and you don't even need to wipe snow off glass if you run your heater through a snowstorm (and that will cost maybe a dollar worth of electricity for few hours). You can pre-heat the car inside a garage, and the heater is much faster than an ICE even if you forget to pre-heat. Autopilot/TACC is the best around and is well worth the longer charging stops while road tripping. No regrets buying one, and I'm usually the type who would never spend over $30k on a car outside of rentals.
That's a great question, and something I'd like to address eventually. I didn't in this video because I've only owned the car for a couple months, so I can't say how it differs from the summer yet. I am using around 350ish wh/mi, so not exceptional efficiency, but it's better than I thought it would be in the cold so far. Again, need more time/data.
Engineering Explained, heres a bad scenario, say you drive normal far, like 50 miles, expect a 100 mile reserve, leave it sit all day, say 9 hours and then can't get home and have to call a tow truck and wait in the cold.
I think you definitely couldn't use these in extreme cold climates like Alaska where they leave their cars running while out because it's too cold to start the car again. You'd need a big power drain to heat the batteries in that environment. Thoughts?
Living at 8600' and 2 miles down a dirt road from US 64 my Tesla AWD has been put to the test and has passed with flying colors. It has a set of snow tires, necessities for all our vehicles. The last 3/8 of a mile are down our driveway, and I maintain it so it isn't up to the standard of the County maintained dirt road. We've had zero troubles on the County Road, the car had to be dug out once when packed snow collected under the body of the car. There is a nice feature that helps pull of snow situations that might have got us free, but a little shoveling did the job. We've come home after a 4" snowfall and barreled down the driveway a couple of times. Then I pick up the truck and go back over the drive and everything's fine. Our plow needs an upgrade, and after a couple days in the 40s the tires dug in and we almost were stuck again. For the last few days I've been using the Tundra. This summer I'll upgrade the plow, and we'll be able to drive the Model 3 every day next winter. Oh yes, there are 84 turns and 1600'' altitude gain on hwy 64 between Taos and our turnoff. The Tesla shines on that drive. What a car!
You mentioned not hearing the brakes at the beginning. Wouldn't the Trac control system just vary power to the wheels using the motor itself, instead of the brakes like an ICE??
Tesla Model 3 AWD only has 2 motors, not 4. The individual wheels still have to be controlled precisely using brakes, although limited-slip differentials do help.
@@bratan_archer Limited slip differentials don't make sense on a tesla. The reason why ICE vehicles use them is primarily because they only have one engine, and particularly in AWD systems you have 4 wheels to transfer power to, and without any limited slip, you only need one wheel to slip to lose all power. Even with limited slip differentials, many companies still use the brakes to transfer power. The problem with a limited slip differential in terms of a tesla is that they have too much impact (power applied over a given amount of time), so putting all that torque into a limited slip all at once is prone to breaking the limited slip, or having to have it incredibly overbuilt and thus heavy. It was more practical for tesla to use a much more sturdy open differential which won't shatter under high torque loads than a more fragile limited slip setup, and there is zero performance loss. The only issue with this scenario is that on a race track, this does put increased thermal load on the brakes, which are already somewhat pushed to the limits due to the heavy weight of the battery. The P3D has two major weaknesses on a track compared to other cars, brake fade is one, and the other is thermal soak, since every component of the car ties into a single coolant loop (which isn't the problem), but the problem is that the operating temperatures of the components is less thermally tolerant than an ICE, and at the lower temperatures required, there is a slower heat transfer from the exangers to the environment. It is possible to actively cool the system, but that adds weight, and massively reduces efficiency. It is just one of those limitations that will be figured out and eliminated with time as better energy storage techniques become available such as using super capacitors to store regen braking energy instead of the batteries. This would give an energy barrier that limits the batteries to output only in most scenarios instead of doing both input and output, and gives an energy buffer between the motors and battery system that can be more thermally efficient and faster reacting, as it would demand less sudden change from the battery itself. There are also dry cells, and solid state architectures which could potentially operate at higher thermal thresholds, which would also improve the efficiency of heat exchange, and improve charge times as well.
@@dreiak I get your point about endurance/reliability. Doesn't mean they wouldn't work. There's plenty of RWD or FWD cars with limited slip differentials where the diff handles 200+ HP on one axle. It would certainly work in slippery conditions. But on the other hand, the brakes can probably handle traction control in slippery conditions anyway because that's less strain than controling traction under full load on a dry track.
I just got a set of NOKIAN WRG4 all weathers and can't wait to try them in the snow. We just don't get enough snow here to justify a set of winters on the Outback and the fact that I just don't drive it enough to justify it as its not my daily. I'm really exited to test out these new "all weather" tires that are supposed to work really well in the snow and not ware as much in the summer.
The Nokian website says they make Hakka R3’s in the size for the Model 3 Performance, but I haven’t been able to find them for sale online. I ordered 18” wheels with R3 tires, and excited to try them out this week
@@MrSovrin I had a set of those on my Forester a while ago, they were really nice. The tread is essentially a winter pattern with a harder rubber so they don't shred themselves in warmer weather. They did lack some dry weather performance as a result but if they're going on an Outback that's probably not a big deal.
In Sweden, tires were from Nokian. they are considered the best according to several winter tire tests. In northern Sweden it is also common to use winter tires with studs
My wife and I are torn between the Model 3 and the MX-5 RF, so we're paying really close attention to your saga. The MX-5 would mean we'd keep the vehicle we'd otherwise replace if we got a Model 3. Either vehicle would be pretty much maxed out so no concerns there. The experience is so dramatically different though. Very tough decision.
Honestly a very tough call. MX-5 is in my opinion the best bang for the buck car you can buy, as far as fun is concerned. The Model 3, even though electric, is wildly more practical than the MX-5 however. Both are super fun, but in quite different ways. M3 will be more enjoyable in a city environment, MX-5 will be enjoyable pretty much everywhere. Model 3 will be quieter/much nicer interior/sound system/features.
Engineering Explained All excellent points. We do have another vehicle (2014 Highlander), which is generally good enough and practical for the kids (fuel economy aside). But that's really it, extend our utility and aesthetic experience while holding onto some semblance of fun and only keeping two cars, or go for raw enjoyment and a less comfortable ride while keeping three cars? Ah! We live in central California in the midst of tons of agricultural land. Not too much traffic, halfway decent roads that are basically a giant grid, and about 25 miles to the city.
I'd recommend the mx-5 . Such a wonderfully lightweight car and loads of fun. I really enjoy the six speed manual transmission because of how smooth it shifts.
A few questions: 1) Would it be practicle with a 4 motor system like Rivian to indipendantly control the speed of all 4 wheels so that there is never any slip? 2) Have you tried out any third party wheels to reduce your unsprung weight? Thanks.
Why not just buy 18 or 19 inch set of non tesla wheels with winter tyres fit on them? should give you more options with a tyre choice. Tesla wheels are nice fore sure but in the end winter ones will be only for 4 months of the year.
You have to be careful buying aftermarket wheels. Not all wheels will fit on the Tesla hub, and not all 18" wheels will fit over the calipers. This isn't an issue with the base model, or AWD, its specific to the P3D with bigger brakes, and a small lip at the base of the hub which would prevent some wheels from mounting flush. That lip might be something get gets engineered out at some point because I have no idea why it is there, but then again, I wouldn't diss tesla when it comes to engineering. They have some of the best engineers in the industry there, as was confirmed by Sandy Monroe, and I expect if that lip can be eliminated, they likely will at some point.
I bet the slip start is to address the power control that even normal traction control in things such as the Subaru Forester. If you have to make your way through deep snow, it will draw the engine power down until it just stops, leaving you essentially stuck unless you disable the traction control. Traction control is great on ice and light snow, and normal highway driving,, but many conditions it actually makes things worse.
It's also possible to use a traction control system to turn the car in a slope as if you were driving a tank with counter rotating track capacity! Also, I don't trust 4wd on local winter roads that often has small spots of black ice that makes you loose traction on one tyre/axle at a time, and with some slush or rain on top of that black ice, the anti-spin system is too slow to react and instead induces and reinforces a swaying that will turn into a full on spin if the driver as much as touches the brakes...
I can't wait to get my Tesla. I been watching every single Tesla video online, to research which Tesla I want. I know I don't want the RWD. So far it's between the Long range AWD, or the performance.
Erik Garcia but really this isn’t so much a TCS issue as it is a difference in the power train. With an electric motor you can instantly cut the power to it and stop wheel spin. With a gas motor you can’t just shut it off all you can do is attempt to slow it down by applying brakes and changing the engine timing to bog the engine down some. Any fully electric powered car will have an advantage over an internal combustion powered car.
I purchased a Model 3 Performance here in Switzerland, and I opted to purchase the set of extra 20" rims, including winter tires. On the website it actually says it will come with "Pirelli Sottozero 3 Winterreifen" I'm curious to find out once I pick up the car if they are Sottozero 3 or 2. If they are 2 I'll have to complain, since there is a big price difference between the tires here. Sottozero 2: 459 per tire versus Sottozero 3: 599 per tire. And obviously the 3 are better.
We own the long range AWD, and while there’s definitely a decrease, I don’t think it’s that much. I’d say about 25-30%. Instead of charging every 5 days, we charge every 3 days
I just rented all wheel drive suv with winter tires for Lake Tahoe and it took alot to make it slide or slip. I didn't have to lock center diff for nothing and i did test some steeper climbing. It's too easy to get confident, but we should stay very conscious for black ice conditions
I wonder why theres is no all aids off, RWD only mode in cars like these, now that would be fun... sure im impressed by all the playstation features, but where did the pure driving experience go ? Dosent nobody want it these days ?
13:30- I always though that too, but I experienced front wheel lock up on ice with a Bolt EV and I didn't touch the brake. Unless GM hasn't disclosed the fact that it blends friction brakes outside of brake pedal use (similar to what Nissan and BMW do).
Not just that but also traction control tends to reduce your speed which reduces your momentum which when you are going up a steep snowy hill the less traction control the better.
@@mocabrera Yes, due to traction control applying the brakes to the wheel with the least amount of traction to slow it's spinning so that the wheel with the most traction gets some power. In an open differental the wheel with the least amount of traction gets the power. The person we are replying to mentioned an LSD which is a Limited Slip Differental, he is talking about how he would prefer an LSD to traction control which leads to excess and often unequal brake pad wear
I live in the mountains at about 8600 feet, have about two feet of snow in the yard right now, and have driven for over four decades. Rear wheel drive is a horror story in snow so that leaves front wheel and all wheel drive. The significant benefit of all wheel drive is when starting it almost never gets stuck. Secondarily, in bad conditions you can accelerate faster than front wheel drive, which you probably shouldn't be doing (but it is thrilling on curves with all wheels working independently). Once you are moving there is little benefit to all wheel drive. Like Mr. Engineering said, the most important thing is good show tires that allow you to stop. I consider all wheel drive much less important than balance, sensitivity, and long term familiarity with the vehicle. If the vehicle is balanced it doesn't want to fish tail or spin out. Good sensitivity, which manual transmissions provide, allows the driver to really feel and control the connection to the road. Long term familiarity lets the driver recognize the vehicle's limits and take the proper corrective action when needed. I have been doing this long enough I don't want to turn over a lot of my driving responsibilities to automotive software. But if I was young and inexperienced I would. I currently have FWD and might get AWD in the future, but I'm not in any rush and won't do it if I have to drive an automatic transmission. What I find disqualifying is the tire and wheel situation Mr. Engineering has got himself into. 20 inch wheels are too big, leaving too short a tire, guaranteeing bent expensive wheels where he lives. Having almost no choice in tires is a bad situation. He should have bowed down and bought the 18 or 19 inch Tesla snow tire/wheel package.
11:00 So theoretically would a motor per wheel (four total) setup be the best type of AWD system as it can apply torque and kill torque wherever needed? Rivian says that is what they'll be using. You could even have some wheels move forward and some backward to get the car to rotate sitting in place, then you better watch out one day when a four motor EV cop has his back toward you he'll just spin around and then launch your way.
@@chaz720 The unfortunate truth about tesla isn't so much that, but that the cars improve so quickly that in 3 years it simply won't be cool anymore (compared to other teslas at least). The 2012 model S looks so dated to me now, but anyone who has never been in a tesla before would still have their mind blown by it. The reason why apple phones get so slow with time isn't a software update, it is that the software prioritizes battery life over performance, so as your battery degrades, it throttles the power back to the processor essentialy underclocking it for lower power usage. This gives you better battery life as the phone ages, but makes the phone get slower and slower and slower with useage. Apparently on the newer phones there is a way to alter this setting, but I don't really care because apple is over-priced. Why the hell would I spend 1300 on a phone, when I can get a decent laptop for that amount of money? I will stick with a decent functional droid like the nexus, or pixel, and I will enjoy my P3D being king of the road while it still is before literally every car on the street does 0-60 in 3 seconds.
I found a set of 4 rims for 750 and then a new set of blizacks showed up for 250, one size higher I think. so I sit a little higher and have excellent cushioning against winter's hidden obstacles. Good description of Tesla traction control. Must be fun to be on that engineering team.
Actually no. The driver is responsible no matter what the car does, until we reach at least level 4 autonomy. Rule of thumb, if the car has a steering wheel, you are probably still responsible.
@@tudythegangster If there's no steering wheel then accidents will be extremely rare, because the computer will have non e of the many serious flaws of human drivers. And in case of an accident it will likely treated like a plane crash. It will be thoroughly investigated and the authorities will recommend changes to the fleet to avoid similar accidents in the future. 99% of the time it will be a software fix pushed out with the next update.
Everyone on YT loves to harp on and on about winter tires, if you have all wheel drive, YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE THEM. I fully agree they are better for the snow and ice than all seasons, but if your all seasons are in good shape and you drive smart, you will be fine. I just today drove my RAV4 through a white out to Sun Valley through the Idaho desert, and into Ketchum ID that received 18 inches of snow overnight, and I never once struggled to get around. Driving smart is the best advice for snow and ice. Slow down, give yourself lots of following distance, and take your time.
Agreed, you need to be smart. But AWD/4WD don't do anything for you in cornering/stopping. Winter tires give you the biggest buffer. Also, I drove through the same storm! It was quite a lot of snow.
@@EngineeringExplained It was crazy for sure, were you going to Ketchum area as well? I have been going there for years now and I have never seen that much snow there before!
How does the battery do in the cold? I'd imagine it gets heat while in use but what about sitting over night in sub freezing temps- my attention span is about 4 mins if it was mentioned in the vid.
No donuts,, no fun! You guys are lucky over there with tons of snow ❄️ it’s so beautiful, I bought my winter tyres hoping we get some ❄️ but was nothing. Nice job
I have considered getting winter tires, but here in Chicago we have hundreds of plows that clear and salt the road as soon as it snows so I'm not sure I really need them.
Would be possible to fit 18” cheaper wheels with higher tires to make for the same size to give you more buying options and not have to worry about chipping your wheels in case a ranger demand you to put chains to proceed? Would the brake discs be a problem?
Lots of comments saying I'm full of nonsense about open differentials having a 50/50 torque split! And while it's true that I've made plenty of mistakes, this fortunately isn't one of them. Here's some great content clarifying why locked differentials have varying torque splits, and why open diffs are always 50/50.
4WD Systems (and why locked diffs vary torque) - ruclips.net/video/TotrUUuYOM4/видео.html
Open vs Locked Torque Split - ruclips.net/video/_HOa0aRZYpw/видео.html
Open Diff Torque Split - ruclips.net/video/gBHmWZcnWwM/видео.html
Kill ‘em with kindness...and knowledge. Well done, sir.
@Mad Adam winter tires can't protect you against ice
@Mad Adam That's my point. They're not going to protect you if your or someone else's car loses traction on ice.
@Mad Adam Then you're saying anything lol. What is even your point?
@Mad Adam Your point was what?
Track mode in the snow. My man
What a riot! #DoNotAttempt #ParentalSupervision
@@EngineeringExplained Yeah, I don't recommend track mode in the snow, unless you are racing on a closed course. You want the nanies to keep you safe, and you shouldn't be pushing the boundaries on public streets. That being said, the Tesla Winter Experience in Finland 2019 looks friggin amazing, and I would love to see this car in rally cross.
@@dreiak my Car has no nanis what so ever 😀
And on a mountain, too.
@@EngineeringExplained - That test road is BOGUS ;)
Porsche owners: where are all the winter tires gone?
Tesla owners: we bought them, they just fit.
😂😂😂
The Porsche owners I know: What is winter, I don’t have that in my heated garage.
Lol
@@robbed18 real porsche owner don't heat the garage. they heat the road they drive.
Porsche owners don't care about winter tires
09:33 so you exit on passenger side? :)
summon maybe?
Or film is mirrored!
I thought the same thing. Impressive of what things he thinks of in order to get the "perfect" video for the users.
Wow, I can't see shoe tracks coming from either side! I think he got out on the passenger side, then walked in the rear track out of frame. (Not mirrored because of where the tow hitch cover is)
extracted from the sunroof by a helicopter?... hmmm, the plot thickens
I love the fact that he is conducting a winter driving demo on a very curvy iced over road with no guardrails to protect from certain death!!!!
Jason, you failed to mention Winter Driving Factor #4 (the most influential factor of all): The big nut behind the steering wheel!
True that! Guy’s clueless! 😂
Say, what's the torque spec on that nut? 😆
Also weight. Ground clearance is usually irrelevant unless you're offroading in the snow or you have a super car that struggles not hitting when dry. All the weight of that heavy Tesla is a big advantage in the snow. Haha snow tires when you live in lowland CA? I thought I was a nerd...
@@g3mccotter my city barely plows. Basically only the main road through town and the road that goes by the court house and to the school. They leave about 18 inch high packed snow in the intersections of those roads. So clearance is also issue if your city is a pos about snow removal.
if what i heard is right, it's the guy that you crash into wills sorry to you in Canada?
Snow tires are definitely number one. As a Professional Canadian™, if you're in a province that doesn't require them you can always see which idiots didn't get them on the first heavy snowfall, slipping every which way, while almost any old car with good snow tires does fine.
A Yaris with winters on will plod up a hill better than a jeep without winter tires. Secondary to that is car weight and other features, and of course driver attention is always important.
tipoomaster I used to always just get all-seasons. Had a BMW 335i, threw some winters tires on it, it absolutely destroyed our front wheel drive Camry and awd crossover in the snow.
To those who haven’t tried dedicated snows, you will be amazed. You don’t know what you are missing until you try them.
Winter tires help but majority of it is driver skill. Know how recover before you fully start to slide, don't drive faster than your car can handle, don't make sharp maneuvers(sharp defined by the amount of snow/ice), maintain momentum uphill and you'll find you are faster and more stable than 90% the drivers out there. The 10% faster(and stable) than you will be the guys driving well and with winter tires..
@@DmitriyLaktyushkin You are right, the driver also makes a difference, but I'm just saying number one difference to make is the tires. Of course it's no substitute for having your wits about you.
I agree, as someone who lived in the snowiest place on earth (aomori japan), where it seems like 50% of people will total their car in the first winter there. Never be cheap with tires. Either run summer tires, or summer and winter tires, if you have winter. Tires are more important than brakes, HP, downforce, or any other bull that people put on their car to enhance the performance. Every performance metric on every car will always only ever be able to perform at the level that the tires can handle, so maximize grip, and don't be cheap at least with tires.
Got my first set of snow tires before this winter. A bit expensive, but well worth it.
Why am i watching this. I live in Florida, I am 31, and have never seen snow in my entire life...
consider yourself lucky, snow is really bothersome, creates a whole bunch of problems, there is so much snow here i Canada that we don't have anymore space to plow it off, i can literally walk to get on my rooftop, my windows are completely covered by snow, so almost no sunlight getting in the house. i hate winter...
You're watching this because it's new to you and interesting to you as well. Why? Because you're in Florida, you're 31, and have never seen snow for yourself. You should go north sometime, and experience snow. Throw snow balls, make snow angels, go down a snowy hill on a sled, powerslide around in an AWD car. All of these things are fun and you should try them sometime.
@@snowrocket indeed, he should get out, discover the world! Snow is fun, but to much snow can indeed be a pain, I imagine.
@@HotHatchTV Too much snow CAN be a pain. "Too much" depends upon where you live and how much at a given time you're used to dealing with.
Because you are moving to michigan soon for the good marijuana.
Up here in Canada we call what you're driving on slush. It's what happens after the salt/sand trucks and plows have been out.
Ice is what we play hockey on.
Montgomery Bojangles congrats
Montgomery Bojangles if it’s dripping after driving it’s no ice :)
I think that’s what everyone calls it, don’t think you have to be from Canada, not sure why he was calling it ice.
We call a mix of snow and water "slush." These comments are very typical of RUclips haha, everyone has to one up how cold the place they live is, deep the snow is, strong the wind is, etc. etc.
It looks like the hardened snow crust that's left on low traffic roads. I call that "washboard" because it's full of small ridges and craters.
sidenote: central europe - michelin, pirelli and continental 235/35R20 winter tires are readily available here.
I'm sticking to my studded Nokian winter tyres thank you ;)
I do run Pirelli summer tyres though :)
Central european tyres are no good for snow and ice. They are made for high speed on autobahn in cold wet weather.
Ola Curtius i disagree, but yes, they’re no match to studded tires (which are banned in most of central europe).
@@kam_iko Depends on the studded tires. As far as I am aware on the consumer side non studded winter tires are actually better now, but if you are going to buy a rallycross tire (actual racing tire) the studded ones are superior in snow, but also very not street legal.
Erik Garcia interesting, thnx.
Score on the tire treasure hunt! Thanks for sharing.
I think so as well! Thanks for watching!
Have the same tires on my PM3+... They are awesome but took over a month to ship to me since there's such a low stock of them. Much, much better steering feel compared the the blizzaks I have on the P100D
I knew I wanted a Model 3,
18 min later...
.
.
.
Now I really need it :D
Daniel P did you ?? I’m about to I need to know if you did bought a Model 3 how’s your experience??
You're a douche Daniel.
i donno, $3500 for winter tires😳
I hear you...I need one too!
What a beautiful environment to drive through while filming. Thank you.
Gorgeous area! Thanks for watching!
Boise, ID - Bogus Basin Road
@@zachvii Shhhhh it's supposed to be a secret!
Zach W ayeee I’ll be racing my 86 up there when it’s running. Also it’ll be at the trackshark meet in a few months 🤫
Come to Montana
This is one of the best Tesla reviews for those of us that use a car in snow. Sometimes when I swap my tires at Halloween, often the tire guys say you don't need it. Then I show them where i drive and on the snow tires and rims go. As a volunteer firefighter, getting stuck in snow is not an option. I had been debating on the model 3, this sold me big time on it.
im glad i live in florida and can run the same tires all year long
Haha, it would be nice to run summers all year!
Same here in North Carolina on my cayman S
What tires are best for sinkholes?
tsl thornbirds
@@Mekhanic1
I do too in my horrible Idaho weather. But i have all seasons and 4wd and locking rear diff.
same test with all season tires would be helpful
Thanks for posting this! I bought an M3P last year and live in Utah. Just purchased some new wheels and Nokian winter tires, and great to see that the car is still a ton of fun in the snow
Nokia tyres is a legend. Used to have Nokia Hakkapelitta, which were brilliant.
Finally, a snow handling review of the model 3 with proper snow tires
One other benefit of the Model 3 in winter driving compared to other cars would be the low center of gravity due to the battery mounting. It helps to reduce the dynamic load transfer during acceleration, braking, and turning. This keeps a more even distribution of load across the tires. My BRZ isn't great in the snow, but the low CG makes it difficult to upset the chassis. The 50/50 front/rear weight distribution is also contributes a lot to the good grip - again by allow the tires to share the load equally.
Now how does the cold weather affect your range? I'd like to see a video about why cold temperatures can impact battery performance.
Glad you mentioned the importance of tires and clearance.
We have found the same thing... the 3.2 Carrera has the Alpins and they are really good. Great on super cold and dry too (which is most of the winter here). The 996TT has the Pirelli (285s on the rear can be hard to find) and they are pretty good, but I would rank them below the Michelins, We had Blizzaks in the Boxster and MINI and they are the best on black ice, but hard and noisy and wear super fast. Depends a bit on your area a lot. Wow! Really pretty ride :) Super cool to learn more about the Tesla. Great video! Thanks!
Thanks for sharing your experiences!
I got the T sportsline 18" TST Flow Forged Tesla Wheel and Michelin Xice3. I have never been in a car that handles so well in the snow and ice.
There is a 40 foot ice slick on the hill right in front of my house. Most cars and trucks get half way then slide down sideways. My wife has done the same spot over 10 times with not a single slip of the tires. It’s amazing.
Awesome, glad it’s working out so well! Right tires make all the difference!
@@EngineeringExplained In case what Ecospirder5 was getting at was missed, since he's not explicit about it, the T-Sportline 18" rims were designed explicitly to fit the Model 3 Performance. Over the calipers and have the necessary lathed out bit at the back of the center hole.
They sell them with or without their choice of winter tires bundled. Not exactly cheap at $1200 for the set of rims but they look pretty good, are decent weight (about 21lb each, same as the Aero rims sans/cap), and that's in an expected price range of what flow forged, for making barrel room, is going to run.
If I had a Performance, instead of the LR-D that I do, I might get those rims even for a set of summer tires. I'm a big fan of less rim, more rubber. I dislike the nervous feeling I get worrying about bent rims, and I like the lighter, lower rotational mass wheel you normally get with smaller rims and larger sidewalls.
There are a few other quality 18" rim options for the P but nothing cheaper that I know of.
I have been curious about multi-motor AWD systems compared to 4WD systems! Thank You! You have answered ALL my questions!!!
Happy to hear it, thanks for watching!
A wheel on each corner is the way to go for max grip. Tesla with the twin motors and ABS traction gives the next best at the expense of brake wear if you use it a lot.
@@Dave5843-d9m That's the price the owner pays with the brake bias AWD system.
I lived in New England for 15 years. After I got stuck in a snowstorm I learned a lesson that changed my life. Have a good all-wheel drive car and a dedicated set of rims with snow tires ready to change for the winter. On my second huge snow storm, I was navigating around stuck cars on I-495 driving an Audi A4 Wagon with snow tires. Thing was a tank. Helped an young couple take a baby to the Hospital and an old lady that abandoned her car
Another variable you may have overlooked is the width of rim/tire. Getting a designated set of winter rims/tires that are intentionally narrower than stock will greatly help in snowy winter driving. Instead of sitting on the snow, you'll be cutting through it. You don't want "snow shoes" on a car. You want those on the bottom of your feet so you don't sink into deep snow and get lost forever. LOL
I think this is the only video on RUclips that discusses torque distribution on Tesla m3. Thank you!
Pilot Alpin 4's are awesome tires, just drove from San Fransisco to Edmonton three days ago on them, handled winter like a champ.
Yeah, they seem great so far!
Pulling a trailer downhill in snow @ 15:45 now that's treacherous!
blitzbbffl us Idahoans are crazy
If you have an adjustable trailer brake controller, it's probably not too bad. NO trailer brakes or just a surge brake, SCARY!
Why not just get a different smaller set of wheels for the winter with more options for tires?
Have to be able to clear the very large brake calipers, which is challenging.
@@EngineeringExplained Seen several 18" and 19" winter setups on the Tesla forums.
Engineering Explained Tsportline makes 18" and 19" wheels that fit the Performance
@@EngineeringExplained - What is the diameter of the brake rotors on the performance model?
I was surprised to see on my 2018 Tiguan with 17" wheels that VW engineers were able to shoehorn a 13.4" rotor in there. On my past vehicles, that required an upgrade to 18" wheels.
@@Uberragen21 13.3" I believe. I know that the brakes are 13.x" but I don't remember the exact diameter. There are a limited number of 18" wheels which will just BARELY fit over the caliper, it is an extremely tight fit, but not all of them will, so you definitely have to check in the model 3 community if anyone has fit the wheel on a P3D or not, or if the wheel is made to fit. I would say if T-Sportline says the wheel fits, it should fit, since they make parts specifically to fit the model 3. Some after market wheels will require a spacer as well, because there is a small lip on the wheel hub that prevents some wheels from properly fitting. This also shouldn't be an issue so long as the wheels being purchased are meant to fit the car. It is also possible to buy wheels "used" but not really used as so many tesla owners buy aftermarket wheels, you can pick up basically a brand new set of tesla wheels between 18"-20" easily that have functionally never been used sometimes as cheap as $1000 including the OEM tires, but I wouldn't expect to see any of the michelin pilot 4S out there for obvious reasons. Its worth checking ebay for used tesla wheels, particularly the 19" variant for winter tires.
or you could also buy one of the best studless winter tire nokia hakkapeliitta R3 tires for you model 3 performace (tire that tesla offers in norwey sweden and finland for all model 3)
Right on! Just checked and it seems like they do offer the 20" size in the states as well!
From the brand that was found out to be cheating, no thanks.
@@BerchBG this stopped in 2014 after new leadership took over. All the new tyres are legit
Hakkapeliitta R3 are fantastic tires, no question about that.
@@BerchBG even after they cheated the tyres they make are best tires you can buy with your money. Allways driven with Nokia studded and only brand that holds 3 winters. Other brands loose the studs after 1 or 2 years.
On my Performance Model 3 I bought a set of 19" Braelin BR 10's on Continental WinterContact P 830's and I'm having a ridiculous amount of fun up here in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada in the winter !
The most important factor in winter driving is knowing how much traction you have at any given moment. Steering feel, etc. That's why my E90 (with xdrive) was the best winter vehicle. I ran the all-season OEM tires year round in Winnipeg and it was never a problem with snow, ice, whatever. I did replace the tires before they were worn, so I always had decent tread and the rubber never dried out. Great channel Jason!
I was freaking out about how fast he was driving until I realized I had the playback speed set to 1.5X
I was freaking out about his speed and playback was normal. He obviously is unfamiliar with winter driving.
@@teresapeabody2746 that black suv in front of him was not practicing safe follow distance.
Hey I'm dead set sold on Subi AWD!!! no other system covets synergy like it. I haven't watched this vlog yet however I would love to see a worthy contender - and on with me watching this
Thank you so much in advance for this opportunity to review your engineering perspective on Tesla
This is exciting me impressively! uncommon practice is to meter the gas throttling through sliding in snow ~ that's how you drive a Subi and apparently also in Tesla AWD. The only way you can get stuck is to "Belly out" as in you can drive in 5" of snow/mud with 5.5" clearance but hit a 7" drift/rutt and it packs under the vehicle
For snows, always use the smallest rim that will fit over the brakes and go with the narrowest rim and tire width that is practical for the vehicle. If you try to preserve your dry performance characteristics, you will compromise bad weather performance ... which is the whole point of dedicated winter tires.
Narrow wheels are better?
@@jacobclement7707 they "cut" through the snow, onto terrain with more grip
@@jacobclement7707 Objective test show the opposite, wider is better. It surprised me.
Regarding non-Tesla tires, is there any noticeable difference in noise in the cabin? Tesla tires have foam on the inside to absorb road noise and keep the cabin as quiet as possible. Any thoughts on how much of a difference that makes? Would love to see an experiment testing the decibel difference.
I've been VERY impressed with the Alpin PA4's. They come in an 18 inch variant as part of the winter wheel and tire package for the Focus RS, and in the dry, they handle pretty close to the OEM Pilot Super Sports, and as far as snow and ice concerns, they're no Blizzaks, but they work pretty damned well. Only con i've found is theyre a bit loud.
Agreed! They are a bit loud, yes.
What about prolonged weeks of minus 40 degrees? Sask cold.
Good stuff. It's really nice to see how much of a kick you're getting out of driving the new Tesla.
Neat explanation of inherent ABS in regen braking. I had assumed you'd have to use low regen in the snow.
I think the ultimate AWD system is an EV with a separate motor for each wheel, and that's what Rivian are doing in their upcoming pickup and SUV.
Model X has air suspension with up to 8.9" of ground clearance, so it should be even better in the snow than Model 3.
Tesla Model 3 does really well in snow, especially if you use the snow-track modification.
How good are the heaters in these cars, and how much does it affect the battery life?
Heat is fine, plus heated seats. Hard to say at this moment how much it affects battery life. In the Leaf, if you were to use heat for the entire battery charge, you'd lose about 7-10 miles of range (off of 150-160).
@@EngineeringExplained I live where we can easily see winter temps of -45f for a few days in a row, and -20s every night is somewhat common. This is why I ask. Just wondering if it would be up to THAT task. We are weighing the options here and the model 3 is something we are pondering. A lot of imports gassers can't keep the windshield unfogged at these temps. So yeah this becomes a rather important factor for us.
@@EngineeringExplained Thanks for the reply
@Anton Zuykov While driving the Model 3 it actually uses waste heat from the motors and inverters to warm the battery, no dedicated heater, so it's a bit better than S/X. When parked, it will activate the motor coil to generate heat in very cold temperatures, which is a bit worse than S/X. The cabin heater is 6kw
(might need 6kw constant at -45f, much less at -20f) and I think the heat that can be produced by the motor/inverter is also around 6kw. The gist is, if you can plug it in, and preheat it, you can get back a bit of the loss.
@@wolvenar
If you can charge at home, it's probably won't be an issue. The heaters don't use that much power compared to what it takes to move around that almost 2 tons of metal. And you can use the heated seats to save power, those use a lot less power. I think it's like 400W vs. 2-4kW. Heated steering wheel is also nice, but I don't know if it's available in the Model 3.
What takes a big toll on the range is leaving the car outside and unplugged. You can lose 5-10% per day and driving will use more power too.
And the huge advantage over ICE is that you can turn on the heaters remotely, and in just a few minutes all ice melts and the cabin is comfortably warm. Plus the battery heats up to optimal temperature too. And if you can do this while the car is plugged in, it won't cost you any range.
First thing I do in my Golf R when it snows is turn off all of the traction stuff. IMO knowing what the car will do is much better than some system unexpectedly taking all of the power away.
I hear a lot of people say that these Tesla's are the best cars that have ever been made...
The more I watch and learn about them, the more I'm starting to believe it.
If you have home charging, I definitely would put them at the best value ever for your dollar. It's like owning a sports car that has lower maintenance/fuel costs than a Prius. No gas station visits the 99% of the time you aren't road tripping. No de-icing your car ever in winter with just a little bit of planning, and you don't even need to wipe snow off glass if you run your heater through a snowstorm (and that will cost maybe a dollar worth of electricity for few hours). You can pre-heat the car inside a garage, and the heater is much faster than an ICE even if you forget to pre-heat. Autopilot/TACC is the best around and is well worth the longer charging stops while road tripping. No regrets buying one, and I'm usually the type who would never spend over $30k on a car outside of rentals.
I love how quiet snowy mountain passes are. Plus it’s also an electric car. Looks like a beautiful day!
How well to the batteries hold charge in the cold weather?
They loose a lot of capacity.. in short: they suck
That's a great question, and something I'd like to address eventually. I didn't in this video because I've only owned the car for a couple months, so I can't say how it differs from the summer yet. I am using around 350ish wh/mi, so not exceptional efficiency, but it's better than I thought it would be in the cold so far. Again, need more time/data.
@@EngineeringExplained Thank you for the response. I look forward to hearing you address this.
Engineering Explained, heres a bad scenario, say you drive normal far, like 50 miles, expect a 100 mile reserve, leave it sit all day, say 9 hours and then can't get home and have to call a tow truck and wait in the cold.
I think you definitely couldn't use these in extreme cold climates like Alaska where they leave their cars running while out because it's too cold to start the car again. You'd need a big power drain to heat the batteries in that environment. Thoughts?
As someone from the pacific northwest who drives a fwd focus hatchback, this video gave me massive anxiety! Glad to see the model 3 handle it well
The two views combined at 0:45 was a bit disconcerting haha
New Teslas are like that now. Driver sits perpendicular to the direction of travel 😁
@@brandonobaza8610 :D thats how it goes these days. Only the cool drivers sit perpendicular to the direction of travel
Living at 8600' and 2 miles down a dirt road from US 64 my Tesla AWD has been put to the test and has passed with flying colors. It has a set of snow tires, necessities for all our vehicles. The last 3/8 of a mile are down our driveway, and I maintain it so it isn't up to the standard of the County maintained dirt road. We've had zero troubles on the County Road, the car had to be dug out once when packed snow collected under the body of the car. There is a nice feature that helps pull of snow situations that might have got us free, but a little shoveling did the job. We've come home after a 4" snowfall and barreled down the driveway a couple of times. Then I pick up the truck and go back over the drive and everything's fine. Our plow needs an upgrade, and after a couple days in the 40s the tires dug in and we almost were stuck again. For the last few days I've been using the Tundra. This summer I'll upgrade the plow, and we'll be able to drive the Model 3 every day next winter. Oh yes, there are 84 turns and 1600'' altitude gain on hwy 64 between Taos and our turnoff. The Tesla shines on that drive. What a car!
You mentioned not hearing the brakes at the beginning. Wouldn't the Trac control system just vary power to the wheels using the motor itself, instead of the brakes like an ICE??
If it had a motor on each wheel that would be possible, but it does not it goes through a open differential same as my old diesel pickup.
Tesla Model 3 AWD only has 2 motors, not 4. The individual wheels still have to be controlled precisely using brakes, although limited-slip differentials do help.
@@bratan_archer Limited slip differentials don't make sense on a tesla. The reason why ICE vehicles use them is primarily because they only have one engine, and particularly in AWD systems you have 4 wheels to transfer power to, and without any limited slip, you only need one wheel to slip to lose all power. Even with limited slip differentials, many companies still use the brakes to transfer power. The problem with a limited slip differential in terms of a tesla is that they have too much impact (power applied over a given amount of time), so putting all that torque into a limited slip all at once is prone to breaking the limited slip, or having to have it incredibly overbuilt and thus heavy. It was more practical for tesla to use a much more sturdy open differential which won't shatter under high torque loads than a more fragile limited slip setup, and there is zero performance loss. The only issue with this scenario is that on a race track, this does put increased thermal load on the brakes, which are already somewhat pushed to the limits due to the heavy weight of the battery.
The P3D has two major weaknesses on a track compared to other cars, brake fade is one, and the other is thermal soak, since every component of the car ties into a single coolant loop (which isn't the problem), but the problem is that the operating temperatures of the components is less thermally tolerant than an ICE, and at the lower temperatures required, there is a slower heat transfer from the exangers to the environment. It is possible to actively cool the system, but that adds weight, and massively reduces efficiency. It is just one of those limitations that will be figured out and eliminated with time as better energy storage techniques become available such as using super capacitors to store regen braking energy instead of the batteries. This would give an energy barrier that limits the batteries to output only in most scenarios instead of doing both input and output, and gives an energy buffer between the motors and battery system that can be more thermally efficient and faster reacting, as it would demand less sudden change from the battery itself. There are also dry cells, and solid state architectures which could potentially operate at higher thermal thresholds, which would also improve the efficiency of heat exchange, and improve charge times as well.
@@dreiak I get your point about endurance/reliability. Doesn't mean they wouldn't work. There's plenty of RWD or FWD cars with limited slip differentials where the diff handles 200+ HP on one axle. It would certainly work in slippery conditions. But on the other hand, the brakes can probably handle traction control in slippery conditions anyway because that's less strain than controling traction under full load on a dry track.
Regen is so underrated. Builtin ABS. Downhills never wear out your brakes. Recoup all the energy. Single pedal driving.
I don't know what it is but something about you remind me of Prof. Brian Cox
Had to rewind plenty of times because of how gorgeous those mountains and hills are.
i love how you have trouble hiding your smile when talk about your tesla.
I find it interesting to use one-foot driving in the snow with the regen braking.
I haven't checked, but I'd assume Nokian Make a Hakka R3 for the Model 3, if not they probably will as one of their biggest bases is Tesla Owners.
The R3 is the best tire I've ever had. Quite expensive but they feel amazing even on an old econobox
I just got a set of NOKIAN WRG4 all weathers and can't wait to try them in the snow. We just don't get enough snow here to justify a set of winters on the Outback and the fact that I just don't drive it enough to justify it as its not my daily. I'm really exited to test out these new "all weather" tires that are supposed to work really well in the snow and not ware as much in the summer.
Nokian Hakka R3 indeed exist in the proper 20” size.
The Nokian website says they make Hakka R3’s in the size for the Model 3 Performance, but I haven’t been able to find them for sale online. I ordered 18” wheels with R3 tires, and excited to try them out this week
@@MrSovrin I had a set of those on my Forester a while ago, they were really nice. The tread is essentially a winter pattern with a harder rubber so they don't shred themselves in warmer weather. They did lack some dry weather performance as a result but if they're going on an Outback that's probably not a big deal.
In Sweden, tires were from Nokian. they are considered the best according to several winter tire tests. In northern Sweden it is also common to use winter tires with studs
How, maestro, all the oncoming traffic thinks your air-conducting a symphony.
That reminds me.
You need theme music
I am glad that the camera stand on the left window that was a few inches from your left eye didn't hurt you!
My wife and I are torn between the Model 3 and the MX-5 RF, so we're paying really close attention to your saga. The MX-5 would mean we'd keep the vehicle we'd otherwise replace if we got a Model 3. Either vehicle would be pretty much maxed out so no concerns there. The experience is so dramatically different though. Very tough decision.
Honestly a very tough call. MX-5 is in my opinion the best bang for the buck car you can buy, as far as fun is concerned. The Model 3, even though electric, is wildly more practical than the MX-5 however. Both are super fun, but in quite different ways. M3 will be more enjoyable in a city environment, MX-5 will be enjoyable pretty much everywhere. Model 3 will be quieter/much nicer interior/sound system/features.
Miata Is Always The Answer. I'd rather buy a miata, but it is the cheaper of the two
Engineering Explained All excellent points. We do have another vehicle (2014 Highlander), which is generally good enough and practical for the kids (fuel economy aside). But that's really it, extend our utility and aesthetic experience while holding onto some semblance of fun and only keeping two cars, or go for raw enjoyment and a less comfortable ride while keeping three cars? Ah! We live in central California in the midst of tons of agricultural land. Not too much traffic, halfway decent roads that are basically a giant grid, and about 25 miles to the city.
That’s like saying, I’m torn between buying a boogie board vs a yacht
I'd recommend the mx-5 . Such a wonderfully lightweight car and loads of fun. I really enjoy the six speed manual transmission because of how smooth it shifts.
A few questions:
1) Would it be practicle with a 4 motor system like Rivian to indipendantly control the speed of all 4 wheels so that there is never any slip?
2) Have you tried out any third party wheels to reduce your unsprung weight?
Thanks.
You're brave riding along side that mountain in icy weather lol!
Just don't act like a buffoon and it's fine.
Albert Einstein If he had gone off the side of the mountain, he would’ve given you a commentary and an exclamation on the ride down.
I got it all Jason. A lightweight rwd miata that's 2 inches off the ground and summer tires. I'm READY to snow drive!!!!
You're ready for burnouts in your driveway haha, love it!
I can confirm the greatness of the Michelin Pilot Alpin PA4!
They are great fun and a very safe option in the winter!
Why not just buy 18 or 19 inch set of non tesla wheels with winter tyres fit on them? should give you more options with a tyre choice. Tesla wheels are nice fore sure but in the end winter ones will be only for 4 months of the year.
The Tesla Model 3 Performance has unique hub, I've seen it done, but it requires machining the 3rd party wheel.
You have to be careful buying aftermarket wheels. Not all wheels will fit on the Tesla hub, and not all 18" wheels will fit over the calipers. This isn't an issue with the base model, or AWD, its specific to the P3D with bigger brakes, and a small lip at the base of the hub which would prevent some wheels from mounting flush. That lip might be something get gets engineered out at some point because I have no idea why it is there, but then again, I wouldn't diss tesla when it comes to engineering. They have some of the best engineers in the industry there, as was confirmed by Sandy Monroe, and I expect if that lip can be eliminated, they likely will at some point.
Tire Rack has 18” wheel packages specifically to fit the Performance Package 20” wheels and their funny notched hubs.
Can u list all the methods to activate the single break on one side .
I bet the slip start is to address the power control that even normal traction control in things such as the Subaru Forester. If you have to make your way through deep snow, it will draw the engine power down until it just stops, leaving you essentially stuck unless you disable the traction control. Traction control is great on ice and light snow, and normal highway driving,, but many conditions it actually makes things worse.
It's also possible to use a traction control system to turn the car in a slope as if you were driving a tank with counter rotating track capacity!
Also, I don't trust 4wd on local winter roads that often has small spots of black ice that makes you loose traction on one tyre/axle at a time, and with some slush or rain on top of that black ice, the anti-spin system is too slow to react and instead induces and reinforces a swaying that will turn into a full on spin if the driver as much as touches the brakes...
I can't wait to get my Tesla. I been watching every single Tesla video online, to research which Tesla I want. I know I don't want the RWD. So far it's between the Long range AWD, or the performance.
Same lol! What did you end up getting?
But.. is your Subaru beter is the snow?
@Anton Zuykov Crosstrek has much better ground clearance though.
Bas BlasterXP Absolutely no way!
No. Tesla TCS is probably the best in the world.
Erik Garcia but really this isn’t so much a TCS issue as it is a difference in the power train. With an electric motor you can instantly cut the power to it and stop wheel spin. With a gas motor you can’t just shut it off all you can do is attempt to slow it down by applying brakes and changing the engine timing to bog the engine down some. Any fully electric powered car will have an advantage over an internal combustion powered car.
Lighter weight and better ground clearance should make it lot better
17:43 That's exactly why I love the Tesla in general. It brings back the child in you :)
Now if I can only have a mode to afford this thing with student loans, that would be awesome!
Come to România
I purchased a Model 3 Performance here in Switzerland, and I opted to purchase the set of extra 20" rims, including winter tires. On the website it actually says it will come with "Pirelli Sottozero 3 Winterreifen" I'm curious to find out once I pick up the car if they are Sottozero 3 or 2. If they are 2 I'll have to complain, since there is a big price difference between the tires here. Sottozero 2: 459 per tire versus Sottozero 3: 599 per tire.
And obviously the 3 are better.
Half of this made me very uncomfortable going down those hills and wiggling that steering wheel
Hundreds of RUclips videos "model 3 in the snow" and no one using winter tyres! So: Thank you to Engineering Explained.
What would happen if you tried to do donuts (in a parking lot, of course)?
Maybe some bonus footage for the curious guys like me...
I was wondering the same thing. Will it actually let you do a doughnut or not?
What about battery temperature, cold start, effect on milage?
An episode on the battery during winter. AAA reports a 41% decease in capacity!
41% wow! I'd believe it, but I haven't done any testing on my own yet, or driven the car outside of winter. Need more time with it! :)
Don't have the specifics of this test.
We own the long range AWD, and while there’s definitely a decrease, I don’t think it’s that much. I’d say about 25-30%. Instead of charging every 5 days, we charge every 3 days
@@OneNvrKnoz which state are you in? I think AAA assumed polar vortex weather for their predictions. Previous winters were a bit mild.
@@OneNvrKnoz 5 down to 3 is a 40% reduction.
I just rented all wheel drive suv with winter tires for Lake Tahoe and it took alot to make it slide or slip. I didn't have to lock center diff for nothing and i did test some steeper climbing. It's too easy to get confident, but we should stay very conscious for black ice conditions
I wonder why theres is no all aids off, RWD only mode in cars like these, now that would be fun... sure im impressed by all the playstation features, but where did the pure driving experience go ? Dosent nobody want it these days ?
@EngineeringExplained you're one of the reasons I bought a Model 3 Performance. Thank you!
There's no driving like snow driving and snow driving's like no driving I know
13:30- I always though that too, but I experienced front wheel lock up on ice with a Bolt EV and I didn't touch the brake. Unless GM hasn't disclosed the fact that it blends friction brakes outside of brake pedal use (similar to what Nissan and BMW do).
I'd rather have an lsd than have constant brake pad wear.
Not just that but also traction control tends to reduce your speed which reduces your momentum which when you are going up a steep snowy hill the less traction control the better.
But you don't use the pads for breaking (Regen), so no big deal.
@@mocabrera He's talking about the traction control, not regen
@@MrLM002 he is talking about pad wear.
@@mocabrera Yes, due to traction control applying the brakes to the wheel with the least amount of traction to slow it's spinning so that the wheel with the most traction gets some power. In an open differental the wheel with the least amount of traction gets the power. The person we are replying to mentioned an LSD which is a Limited Slip Differental, he is talking about how he would prefer an LSD to traction control which leads to excess and often unequal brake pad wear
I live in the mountains at about 8600 feet, have about two feet of snow in the yard right now, and have driven for over four decades. Rear wheel drive is a horror story in snow so that leaves front wheel and all wheel drive. The significant benefit of all wheel drive is when starting it almost never gets stuck. Secondarily, in bad conditions you can accelerate faster than front wheel drive, which you probably shouldn't be doing (but it is thrilling on curves with all wheels working independently). Once you are moving there is little benefit to all wheel drive. Like Mr. Engineering said, the most important thing is good show tires that allow you to stop. I consider all wheel drive much less important than balance, sensitivity, and long term familiarity with the vehicle. If the vehicle is balanced it doesn't want to fish tail or spin out. Good sensitivity, which manual transmissions provide, allows the driver to really feel and control the connection to the road. Long term familiarity lets the driver recognize the vehicle's limits and take the proper corrective action when needed. I have been doing this long enough I don't want to turn over a lot of my driving responsibilities to automotive software. But if I was young and inexperienced I would. I currently have FWD and might get AWD in the future, but I'm not in any rush and won't do it if I have to drive an automatic transmission.
What I find disqualifying is the tire and wheel situation Mr. Engineering has got himself into. 20 inch wheels are too big, leaving too short a tire, guaranteeing bent expensive wheels where he lives. Having almost no choice in tires is a bad situation. He should have bowed down and bought the 18 or 19 inch Tesla snow tire/wheel package.
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11:00 So theoretically would a motor per wheel (four total) setup be the best type of AWD system as it can apply torque and kill torque wherever needed? Rivian says that is what they'll be using. You could even have some wheels move forward and some backward to get the car to rotate sitting in place, then you better watch out one day when a four motor EV cop has his back toward you he'll just spin around and then launch your way.
Yes, that'd be a great system!
THE AUTONOMY OF THE TESLA IN WINTER IS EQUIVALENT TO THAT OF MY IPHONE
How much have you been paid to write that?
My phone las 2 day soooo
I don't think "autonomy" is the word you want to use here.
So it will automatically download an update that makes it unusable when it's three years old?
@@chaz720 The unfortunate truth about tesla isn't so much that, but that the cars improve so quickly that in 3 years it simply won't be cool anymore (compared to other teslas at least). The 2012 model S looks so dated to me now, but anyone who has never been in a tesla before would still have their mind blown by it. The reason why apple phones get so slow with time isn't a software update, it is that the software prioritizes battery life over performance, so as your battery degrades, it throttles the power back to the processor essentialy underclocking it for lower power usage. This gives you better battery life as the phone ages, but makes the phone get slower and slower and slower with useage. Apparently on the newer phones there is a way to alter this setting, but I don't really care because apple is over-priced. Why the hell would I spend 1300 on a phone, when I can get a decent laptop for that amount of money? I will stick with a decent functional droid like the nexus, or pixel, and I will enjoy my P3D being king of the road while it still is before literally every car on the street does 0-60 in 3 seconds.
Wonder if tesla will release track mode for the non performance as well?
Love Elon Musk
Sure.. If you like conman.
@@flexairz How would that describe him?
I found a set of 4 rims for 750 and then a new set of blizacks showed up for 250, one size higher I think. so I sit a little higher and have excellent cushioning against winter's hidden obstacles.
Good description of Tesla traction control. Must be fun to be on that engineering team.
Just let the computer drive. That way when the car loses grip and kills someone you can't be held accountable.
I think you are being facetious. . . but It might be the one in the Tesla that gets killed.
Actually no. The driver is responsible no matter what the car does, until we reach at least level 4 autonomy. Rule of thumb, if the car has a steering wheel, you are probably still responsible.
@@andrasbiro3007 I'm talking about the ones that don't.
@@tudythegangster
If there's no steering wheel then accidents will be extremely rare, because the computer will have non e of the many serious flaws of human drivers. And in case of an accident it will likely treated like a plane crash. It will be thoroughly investigated and the authorities will recommend changes to the fleet to avoid similar accidents in the future. 99% of the time it will be a software fix pushed out with the next update.
@@andrasbiro3007 And nobody will be held accountable. Case in point.
Everyone on YT loves to harp on and on about winter tires, if you have all wheel drive, YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE THEM. I fully agree they are better for the snow and ice than all seasons, but if your all seasons are in good shape and you drive smart, you will be fine. I just today drove my RAV4 through a white out to Sun Valley through the Idaho desert, and into Ketchum ID that received 18 inches of snow overnight, and I never once struggled to get around. Driving smart is the best advice for snow and ice. Slow down, give yourself lots of following distance, and take your time.
Agreed, you need to be smart. But AWD/4WD don't do anything for you in cornering/stopping. Winter tires give you the biggest buffer. Also, I drove through the same storm! It was quite a lot of snow.
@@EngineeringExplained It was crazy for sure, were you going to Ketchum area as well? I have been going there for years now and I have never seen that much snow there before!
How does the battery do in the cold? I'd imagine it gets heat while in use but what about sitting over night in sub freezing temps- my attention span is about 4 mins if it was mentioned in the vid.
No donuts,, no fun! You guys are lucky over there with tons of snow ❄️ it’s so beautiful, I bought my winter tyres hoping we get some ❄️ but was nothing. Nice job
You keep bringing up ground clearance. This is why I'm holding out for a Model Y.
Can’t you get the 19” winter tire setup for the performance? This is still possible right?
I have considered getting winter tires, but here in Chicago we have hundreds of plows that clear and salt the road as soon as it snows so I'm not sure I really need them.
Would be possible to fit 18” cheaper wheels with higher tires to make for the same size to give you more buying options and not have to worry about chipping your wheels in case a ranger demand you to put chains to proceed? Would the brake discs be a problem?
So if he was in a state like California or Colorado...would he still need chains to pass a chain checkpoint? Or are winter tires and awd enough?
How well do Tesla's fair when driving through 2 or 3 feet of water on the road?