Tesla Model 3 SUB-ZERO Range Test: We All Know That EV Range Is Bad In The Cold...But THIS Bad!
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- Опубликовано: 15 янв 2024
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Yuuuusssss real test Thank you 🙏
You're welcome!!
@@TFLEVyeah, great job 👍, the media is blatantly lying about what it is like to own these cars, if you know the basics and have common sense there is 0 issues in reality. I feel like that news story in Chicago should have been titled "Least competent EV owners descend on supercharger location for unintended car meet".
@@supraman321na4 So zero issues except for that if it's very cold you may not be able to recharge them?
How about in Canada where one place was asking people to cut their power usage, including charging EVs, due to the risk of grid failure?
Imagine if you could have a vehicle where you didn't have to pay a premium to have functionality without all of these compromises.
Oh hang on..........
@@supraman321na4 I think the media is covering it quite accurately just two days ago They reported everyone getting blocked because of cold weather at Tesla chargers. I think Elon is the only one not reporting it fairly and the fanboys, of course.
@@oldbloke204 Yeah, 0 issues at 2 degrees fahrenheit, it is not true that you can't charge, the people they picked to interview have no idea what they are doing or how anything regarding an EV works. There are no significant issues if you have a working knowledge of the vehicle and how to prepare for the weather, just like every other vehicle in the world. The people we are talking about here are the same ignorant people that would run their vehicle out of gas in their ICE vehicles and they would just be parked on the side of a highway all over or driving on bald tires in the winter, etc.
Being a Minnesotan my entire life, this resonates. A 300 mile range EV = 150 half the year. I can still easily get 300 miles out of my gas car in the dead of winter, and it only takes five minutes to fill vs however long at a charger, if it even works.
They suck in hot summers too. My acura rl gets near 500 miles per tank. I owned a lightening but sold it for a 20k profit last year when silly people were overpaying for them. My best range on it though with a full charge was 200 miles. Not a practical technology unless you never need to travel more than 150 miles.
And 300 is ideal conditions, no load and best cruising speed. Very poor range to begin with.
Battery range isn't there yet will be in a few years. New technology is right around the corner they made lot of progress over the years. I'll buy one when the range hits 500 miles.
As a felow Minnesotan I totally agree. Last week when we were at -6 deg outside, I laughed thinking about all the EV's out there stuggling. I spent 10 minutes at the gas station and said "yep, my 2018 Ford Taurus is good for another 400 miles and I'm not restricked on how much heat I need. lol
@IFLYBELL and this winter has been mild... normally we have some -15 or worse for a week straight. Even some -30s.
Xmas day last year, I flew into Minneapolis after a week in Costa Rica. It was 9pm, 0⁰ and had been cold and snowing all week. I rode the shuttle to the park and stay hotel that my car was parked at. It was a 2010 VW CC with 275,000 miles and it had the full tank of gas I left it with. I swept off some snow and started it right up. I drove it to the lobby and loaded all my stuff while it warmed a bit. I then drove 300 miles home, no stops, and arrived with about 200 miles "range" left. You can't spend enough money to buy an EV that can do that.
Yeah, I fully support EVs but you need ideal conditions to drive one. Definitely wouldn't own one in a place that snowed.
Hmm leaves a lot of unanswered questions . . . . . . .
@@johngoff8923 Why not ask him how long it took to fuel up, and the fill rate at the pump?
No gasoline car has 500 miles a tank unless ur a truck. So your story is a liar
@@erich9779 My Ram 1500 has a 22 gallon tank and gets about 25 on the highway. I regularly go further than 450 miles on a tank.
There's this very large screen in front of the driver displaying all of this information about the battery, remaining charge, outside temperature, suggestions to save battery life...... but you must not ever be distracted using your cell phone...... SMH!
But then not in front with what is standard with a screen behind the steering wheel, which is extraordinary considering many ICE cars half the price of this will have them. These cars are really spartan and cut back considering the luxury sector pricing. Looking sideways on to a big screen with so much on it finding the item you want is a massive distraction which I rarely do. The entry price in the UK for a Tesla is a dogged £40,000 which massive unaffordable price which seems unaffected by all the price cut announcements. It is difficult to fathom the appeal of these vehicles except as a possibly fun hobby if you have plenty of cash to spare and want to test yourselves in a real time range game.
That Front HUD Panel is HIDEOUS! It's 2024 TESLA...c'mon man. Seriously, the interior dash is ugly.
Well, I was born in the 80s so we all learned this when we would get our favorite remote control cars on Christmas and then try to go outside and play with them in the snow for all of seven minutes
LOL! This just happened to me as a 28 year old man this past christmas
I remember some winters in the 1970's it take two batteries to start a car. We finally went with plug in heaters.
Haha yes! And to think all these years later, liberals still haven't been able to figure it out!
Todays EV's are the motorola flip phones of 2024.. you'd need to carry a spare battery just like you need a generator with a tank of gas in the back of the EV.
Lithium battery's were made in 78 and not in production until the 90s early 2000s sooo your lead acid battery was made in 1860s... congratulations on basing your experience on 1800s technology.... wait until the new solid state batteries come out that are 30% better than lithium... I think in the 80s you only got like 6-10 mpg as well....
Hertz is selling 20,000 Model 3's for about $26,000. You will have some competition. I am sure your 3 is in much better shape.
Hertz cars are 3 years old with about 90k miles on them. They are 40k. New and not sure if they qualify for the 7500 rebate, For 90k miles that’s not bad depreciation,
I think most of Hertz’s cars are Standard Range or Standard Range Plus RWD. TFL’s price should be in the ballpark based on battery size and AWD.
Hertzs model 3s are standard range rwd, you can charge it to 100% all the time without hurting the battery which will most renters do anyways.
Ok, now let's see how a different company ev compares with snow tires and the same conditions.
Many of those 20,000 cars are brand new, never used, because there was no demand for them.
Its refreshing to finally starting to see honest reviews of EVs out in the wild.
The dishonesty of most EV enthusiasts is counter-productive. It will lead to a backlash once normal car buyers realize they were deceived, and slow the transition.
@@pyotrberia9741 We already know.
Its interesting to see videos claiming to be honest, I just watched Out of spec reviews video called I'm Stuck In Traffic In An EV & It’s Freezing! How Long Can The Car Last Before I Run Out Of Charge and he showed a very minimal range loss. It was a simulation but I dont think it was an honest/realistic video, TFL did a better real world example of EV issues in the cold.
Yeah EVs themselves are already slowing the "transition" enough on their own. @@pyotrberia9741
I mean its not like gas cars dont have this issue. Cant start it if your 12v lead acid battery freezes. Im in denver and we had plenty of people who drive gas cars that couldnt make it to work because of frozen batteries. I have a subaru and my husband has a leaf, he has a longer commute and when it gets this cold we trade. Despite the cold (there was ice under the dash cover) I still made it to work and back without issue, he wouldn’t have with his commute, but thats why we swapped cars.
I think people forget its a different technology and thus has different strengths and weaknesses. At the end of the day you have to prep accordingly, if you have an EV or ICE vehicle.
The range anxiety in the cold like that would be terrible. Can't imagine running out of change in -2 degrees.
Let's be honest, when the first Teslas came out with low-resistance Summer tires, they weren't just trying to maximize range. These things are meant to be second or third vehicles that you drive when it's nice outside. That's it. People keep trying to use them like real cars but they're not.
@@TheCharleseye I use my (non-Tesla) EV everyday like a real car year round in icy cold New England. Do I need to be more thoughtful about where I want to go tomorrow? Yes. Is that outweighed by how much I love my car? Yes. If you're using an EV every day to get to work and run errands, etc, and charging at home when needed, there is no range anxiety. If you have a long commute in cold weather and unpredictable charging options, then an EV isn't a good choice.
@@TheCharleseyenope, you can use it as main car. over pumped tires are to boast higher range. less rolling resistance
@@mattmurphy8845 Thank you for supporting my statement. EVs can't replace real cars. It's like trying to replace Dewalt tools with Walmart tools. Sure, they'll do fine for a lot of people who really don't use them for much, but those who need the real deal are going to be stuck if they use the play toy version. My 70-year-old mother loves her Black & Decker drill because she never does anything that requires more than an electric screwdriver. You won't see B&D on a jobsite and you're not gonna see a whole lot of EVs in large swaths of the US. They're really more of a European solution, where a "long drive" is the couple of hours it takes to get from London, England to Paris, France.
I'm glad your EV is good enough to hang pictures in your hallway. If you'll excuse me, I've got a deck to build.
My EV replaced my old "real car." It sounds like an EV doesn't work for you, but that doesn't mean they don't work. @@TheCharleseye
You should have tried that up here in Alberta this past week…we were running consistant -30C with night time to -40C. And!….the electricity grid operator was telling us not to charge electric cars because the system was in overload and dangerously close to rolling blackouts. (One morning I checked and the windchill temperature was -63F!) Sorry, never was in favour of electric cars and believe that hybrid is the way to go if you must change from a gas guzzler. Of course, IC vehicles are starting to get some pretty good mileage in recent years. People just never clued in on how much energy is packed into a tank of gasoline. Oh...and tires? I use Cross Climate II for a summer and shoulder season tire; nothing but X-Ice for a winter tire. There IS a big difference in the amount of traction you get.
for sure up there u need true winter tire, for us cali folk, we have summer tire for summer then all season tire for fall to spring.
As an Albertan, I think the only problem with hybrids for most Albertans is that they're not 1-ton trucks. Fix that, and adoption will definitely increase here, especially if they can tow. Otherwise, we're going to remain the place where EV and hybrid drivers can expect a dusting of diesel soot.
@jessebrook1688 need those 1-tons when you venture out from your suburb style neighbourhood to the grocery store! 😂
and to top it off Danielle Smith just put a moratorium on private renewable energy projects several months ago. braindead.
oil will run out folks, and all hybrids tech is a band aid.
I drove from Dallas TX to Lubbock TX while the weather was 10 Degrees Fahrenheit. The range was TERRIBLE, I almost got stranded in the middle of rural Texas and when I made it to the supercharger there were THREE teslas getting towed to the supercharger because their range estimates weren't even close to actual. As for me the car estimated I'd make it to my destination with 30% battery(Model Y LR), I got there with 2 miles left....
Totally unsafe
If anything he is saying is true. I believe about 1% of what I read on here. @@CarShopping101
Panic and stress.........who needs it?
Not buying one. Ever.
2% left? Yeah that's safe for everyone. I realize this is your test.
Most people get very anxious at 1/8th of a tank... or about 12%. Based on that you have about 18 miles left. In a regular car 1/8th even in low mileage situations like this it is 2 gallons or 40 miles remaining.
There will be multiple gas stations providing a 5 minute fillup.. you have very few options at a 30 minute fill up.
Huummmm
That’s what you get for buying a ev 😂
This is another reason to keep driving my reliable 2002 Lincoln Town Car that has been my daily driver since 2007. It is 22 years old with 124k miles on it, and it hasn't lost any "range." When it was new it had a rating of 23 mpg on the highway. In December, I drove it 815 miles from Maryland to Florida, and got 23.7 mpg.
When I left Maryland, it was 22 degrees F, and I had to let the car warm up for about five minutes as the windows were covered in ice and frost. When I got back into the car to leave, it was so warm inside the car that I immediately took off my hat and heavy coat. Granted, it wasn't as nearly as cold in Maryland as it was in Denver, but I noticed that after driving more than two hours in the Tesla, Tommy never took off his hat or coat. It must have still been chilly inside that car. My car doesn't lose any "range" when I turn the heat on.
Of course it is warm since you car has heat as byproduct. Look at it this way, you got 23.7 mpg. One gallon of gas is equivalent to 33.7kWh. With two gallons of gas you do 47.4 miles, and that is 67.4kWh. Tesla did in -3F in worst conditions 158 miles with 66kWh. Still more than 3 times more efficient than you gas car.
@Sasoon2006-- I agree that my Lincoln isn't the most fuel efficient vehicle out there, but I don't mind spending a few extra dollars on gas. Almost half the miles that I drive are on the highway, and it is a great car on long trips. It has a huge trunk, which I need when I travel.
If I had an EV, I would probably be spending much more on public charging than on gas, plus the extra time waiting for it to charge. In talking to some EV owners, they say that it is much more expensive to use a public charger, than it is to charge from home.
@@Sasoon2006 You can celebrate the Tesla's superior efficiency when you're stranded on the hwy 50 miles from home in freezing weather at night.....
@@Sasoon2006
What use is that if you can't use your tesla, as in the Chicago debacle?
ICE vehicles just GO!!
@@Sasoon2006 And? My Suburban is less efficient than his Lincoln. My conversion van is less efficient than my Suburban. So what? They both have 31 gallon tanks and I have an endless supply of gas stations to choose from. My tanks fill in about five minutes and - unlike your charging stations - every gas station I use is also a convenience store, with bathrooms, that takes cash. When someone chugging along in a beat up '78 Buick has a better experience during their pit stops than someone driving a $70,000 Tesla...there's something fundamentally wrong with your infrastructure.
I live in Finland. We recently had a nice cold week of -30C or -22F everyday. My car is parked outside all day. Still get 600km+ out of my diesel car at a full tank in a blizzard while using studded tires, which have more drag than all season tires. Some cars like mine have a separate engine heater (Webasto) which helps to keep the battery from dying and it uses the diesel as fuel. Diesel is king in the cold north.
You sound like all the snow dogs owners that cried when they said just use diesel.
diesel doesnt handle the cold like petrol does, luckily scandinavia has special winter diesel, but it happens that someone fueled their car in europe or mostly had it sitting since summer, then the diesel is like butter in the tank and all your fuel lines if its cold.
@@TheHenirik Ah yes, i forget to mention that we do have special winter diesel.
I performed the same test in NYC with the recent deep freeze in a BRAND NEW Model X (300miles). Same climate settings @70F but also Preconditioned INTERIOR temps. From 100% to 8% and got a whopping 138 Miles. Most snow accumulation was rated at 1 inches.
I live in Minnesota and yeaaaaaaahh...I wondered about winter driving conditions, so I for one GREATLY appreciate this kind of real-world information.
yeah, it pretty much rules out a Tesla as a vehicle if you live in the north central US, it's at best a summer vehicle, I'm not even sure they can fix this issue any time soon.
@@gentronseven Not until new battery tech is perfected and available.
@xpavar yeah I'm just skeptical as to there being battery tech capable of fixing it since stored chemical energy will always be inefficient at lower temperatures, heating the batteries will drain them, the problem got worse as he drove in the cold so residual heating wasn't enough etc. It's not clear there's a way to fix it unless capacity gets much higher
Plenty of Teslas driving around in upstate New York, Chicago, Massachusetts in the winter. You know what else I also see each day? Plenty of gas vehicles broken down on the side of the road. More energy is needed to heat a battery and cabin in the winter. That’s common sense. Just account for this and you’re fine.
Our family have an 11 yr old EV, a 10 yr old EV, and a 9 yr old EV, each get driven year round, and none of them have ever been stranded or ran out of energy. We understand that more energy is used when it’s cold. It’s as simple as that.
As long as you’re paying attention to your fuel gauge and understand that different climates affect fuel usage, just as one should do with a gas car as well, there shouldn’t be ever any problem with running out. It’s not rocket science.
@evolv.e it's 10 degrees colder where I live on average than in Chicago, it's almost 0F every day for 3 months on average, I could have a tesla but for $40k it'd have to be my only car, if I had to drive 100 miles for some reason I wouldn't be able to, and where I live that's also commonly a need.
It never ceases to amaze me how so many people can like a sub-par anything and will try to convince others how great it is when it is obvious it's not. Reminds me of something else that came along about 3.5 years ago.
Simple don’t buy an EV you will be sorry
It's not been an issue for me. I did one road trip in sub freezing temps. Want that big a deal. But, if you live where it gets extremely cold if probably pass. For me I enjoy not having to get gas every week, especially in cold it raining days. For me the pro'd outweigh the con's. Maybe not for you. That's why the government should force this in people
another DEAD BRAIN COMMENT @@rudybergen8975
@@dbradley65 Yes, that is how it should be. We'll see how it turns out.
@@dbradley65You are getting your wish.. EV is the future because government says so.. They will destroy the country proving it…
150 miles ain’t all that bad. These tests are nice, I love them. They’re actually telling me that I’m my normal day life of getting to work and back I will be fine in even the worst conditions. Let’s face it, ALOT of us go to work and back all week and it’s usually under 20 miles per day. These tests of emptying the battery road tripping are just that… Road trip situations. You’d stop to eat after 150 miles!
My Honda Insight gets me 500 mile range, and I actually hit that per tank. Fill ups are comically quick as I have little a 10 gallon tank (I'm always done filling up before anyone else at the gas station). My car only cost me 21k used. Tires are much cheaper and last longer than EVs, as do brake pads, and cold while it affects my range, doesn't affect it THIS bad. I may go from 65mpg to 50-55mpg. Why would I want one of these things, again?
160 miles instead of 270 - so ~40% less than typical - at -3 degrees F / -19 degrees C.
Only if the driver leaves it outside, has those tires, drives at 70, set it to 70 inside. It makes for a great video, but easily avoidable if you plug-it-in as most EV buyers know how to do. My old ICE vehicles would lose 10 to 15% with those type of tires, some did not start at those temps, so not an EV only problem.
@@michaelmcbride2045agree. Noticeable range and efficiency advantage noticed when we garage our EV’s vs leaving them outside overnight in the winter.
Considering this is absolute worst case scenario and can still drive for 3 hours, that's not bad
@@tjwatson0403I would say not good. My 2004 Toyota Carolla is running Nokian Haakappilliitta R5 winter tires. I have no choice but to park outside, and no access to power for a charger. Last week we had a day similar to the conditions in this test. My old car started on the first turn of the key. The heater is so good I did not need a parka for warmth. The car still had over 250 miles of range on the highway. So much easier.
@@evolv.e That's great when you leave your house, not so much if you come back from the airport, or idk go to work.
Interesting, that range would scare me in a cold weather climate.
yea no kidding, especially considering actual cold climates like WY, MT, ND, and MN have huge stretches with nothing and especially no EV chargers
I live in MN, you couldn’t pay me to buy an EV of any kind here. I have a hybrid that does pretty well. Which I believe hybrids are the way to go anyways over full EV.
Fully agree, I did the same.@@JS-nd1po
As a Tesla owner, I've never had an issue in sub zero temps. I didn't lose anywhere near 50%. Maybe 18%. But you realize diesel and gasoline vehicles lose range too. Especially if the show is deep and unplowed on the streets.
Agreed when the engine is cold but once the engine warms up you regain most of the mileage, EVs not so much.@@MH-Tesla
I rented a model 3 in Florida was 96 degrees and got about the same miles. So they're not much better when it's hot. Used 78% traveling 127 miles. The car was a hertz rental with 22,000 miles on it from Ft Myers airport. Hertz told us it would go to 275 miles.
I have been driving an ev for 4 years. I live at 7200 feet in the mountains in northern Utah. It seems like I loose 40-50% of my range in the winter. Maybe on a good day I can only have a 30% reduction. Great test :)
I live near you guys and had two Polestar2 demo’s and would never get the range. Had the stock tires and did a trip to DIA which was 40 miles each way at 10 degrees and used 160 miles of range. I preconditioned the battery before that drive. Unfortunately the Polestar would never take more than 50KWh charge at the EV America chargers when they worked at the Walmart on 66 in Longmont so charging times were long. Car was good in the snow as it was AWD and heavy due to the battery. Anytime I would take the Polestar on the highway at 75-80MPH the range would drop dramatically no matter the temperatures. Good test you guys did here!
its just simple math, as most ev owners lack basic knowledge of hiw much drag rises up when you speed up like 50 to 80...
same applies in some extension on ICE cars too, as air resistance is not linear, its logarythmic, in most cases most economical speed is somewhere 55-70 depending on cars own air resitance....
My Volvo V70 diesel can do 55 on highway at 60mpg (4l/100km)
but as soon as you top up the speed to 75mph you use 1/4gl. more, (5l+/100km)
@@jkarra2334 I hear ya but simple math does not alway come to the surface when people emotions get involved. Just like common sense is not common😀. We had a Q5 diesel and loved that car, so much power and great drive ability with great mileage. Only 214 HP but 428 ft lbs torque which was fantastic. Buyer shop horsepower but buy torque even though most only look at HP.
@@jkarra2334 I'd argue that EV owners know more about drag that 'gas' car owners. It's simple physics, gas cars use more fuel too, it's just that it's more convenient to fill them with fuel and owners never think about it - until it's 50 miles until the nearest fuel station and your car says you have 45 mile range........
@@markburton8303 gasoline you can easily fit few gallons on trunk with Jerry cans,😁 i always have extra gallon on my every car...
Do same with EV ?
Besides, My "old" 2016 V70 Volvo does 1300km with one fillup (800 Miles) , Volvo warning message suggests refilling at 120-130km left(70-80 Miles)
EV's Area biggest scam in auto industry, here in Scandinavia with decent freezing temperature EV's like Tesla can easily spend 30+ (Even up to 40 )kW /100km (60 Miles) range becomes abysmal, you see these EV clowns driving underspeed and freezing without heating as they try to save few photons EF electricity🤣
I've got friends that live in Finland and their ice car is plugged in so the block doesn't freeze and it starts in the morning. Big tanks on Volvo's.
The range of my gas-powered Toyota also decreases in winter in Michigan where I live. It drops from about 480 miles to about 430 miles.
Thanks for doing a realistic and honest test to demonstrate the challenges of an EV in cold weather. A convincing argument to stick with an ICE vehicle.
My lord-it got down to 35° last night here in Florida,& I almost got frostbite! I cannot imagine -3°!!! I tip my hat to you all up there, stay safe & warm!
Um, Tommy, why the woolen hat and coat if the interior temp is 70?. Heater not holding up?
To be fair, if it was 70 in there, he couldn't have comfortably left that hat on. @@phillipbanes5484
@@phillipbanes5484 I live in Minnesota. If I'm going to be in my car for an hour or more, I will always take off my outerwear. Car temps usually set in the 70 degree range. In this example running for over 100 miles, I would have had my coat and gloves off.
@@GlenOwens-qi5leif im going more than 30 minutes il take my jacket off and get comfortable myself.
I always crank my heater up till I'm sweating like on a hot summer day. Petrol Engine doesn't mind, keeps it cool.
I'm sure the heat was off some to save on battery. They're trying to sell this thing!
Great vid. This just reinforces why I prefer my traditional hybrid vs an EV. I don't have to use 5% of my fuel to get the thing ready to refuel (preconditioning). I don't lose 3% of my fuel being parked overnight in cold weather (was that the battery warmers keeping them from freezing?). It also takes well under 5 minutes to load 12 gallons get approximately 450 to 500 miles of range. Let's see.....500 miles / (5 min / 60 min per hr) = 6000 miles / hour minimum 'recharge' rate. In extreme driving conditions like you had for this test, I can also have a 'range extender' aka gas can to eliminate any range anxiety. EV's are, IMO, fine as a 2nd car "around town", but for a person who can only afford 1 vehicle, they just aren't up to snuff yet.
Agree on every point. EV can be a second car to drive sometimes during summer. So basically for the upper middle class and above.
Never lost 1% during the night let alone 3%. I often leave the car at the airport for 8 days at a time and I only lose 2% max during that time.
@@777jrg Are you in Canada or way up north? Even a phone will lose charge just sitting there for a week.
I left my Tesla at airport in Canada for 5 days with temps ranging 5F to -5F. I lost 2%
IF you have ability to charge at home you can also precondition the battery to drive it.
Honestly for day to day for “most” people the range lost in winter is a non issue. I can see it being an issue for some and those folks should avoid EV if they don’t want to be super charging all the time.
A person who lives in the city and drives 15km a day doesn't need a diesel f250.
A retired couple who are constantly towing a 35ft RV across the entire country don't need an ev.
You only need a vehicle that suits you. You don't have to worry so much about what other people want to do. If they want an ev and it suits their needs, there is no good reason not to.
I drive a 96' Chevy Corsica, 3.1L and get roughly 350 miles per fuel in sub zero temperatures. Not to mention that it's cheap to fix if something goes wrong but the last 4 years I've had it I've only did maintenance on it
Up here in Canada, we see a lot of -20C to -40C, imagine the range at -40C ! I will keep my gas car a little more !
All depends on how much you drive per day. If you're doing less than 200kms then it's fine.
@@ianrobertson3419 If you live on the smallest Plantation, range doesn't matter?
Bottom line summary In -3 degree temps, on a full charge and in snowy conditions, the Tesla's range was reduced by about 40%. No mention about what took place in Chicago on the same day this video was posted, where sub zero temps caused EV charging stations to fail, leaving multiple EV owners stranded outside in freezing temps.
They let their batteries get too low, and didn't precondition the batteries prior to charging.........I plug mine into 120v at home, and where the car definitely drains quicker, I've never been in that situation, and I live in Canada.
Bad EV news always seems to be front and center..!?
Bad news on EVs needs to be front and center so consumers are fully informed when making their choices. They’re not the zero carbon emission heaven they’re otherwise made out to be.
@@nathanexplosion5478 Meh, gas powered cars don't always start in cold conditions, but you don't see that all over the news every day it's cold......this is just BS propaganda, putting one technology under an unfair microscope for political gain!
So if you ~1/2 the range when you're in 0 weather, and you 1/2 the range when you tow, if you are towing in 0 weather is the rule of thumb 1/4 the regular total range? 😬
More likely 1/3 range towing, 1/5th range towing in snow? That's why CT is an instant fail as a real truck without 500+ mile advertised range..
Depends on what you're towing and how heavy it is.
In a cold weather area, you would be beyond insane to get an EV as your primary car, this sort of range issue could literally be deadly at those temps. I have a 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee limited V6, 2.5 lift with 32inch AT tires, goes VERY good in snow, I can still expect 350 plus miles per fill up in bad weather and 385 or so in good weather, fueling takes no more than 10 minutes usually less. until EV's get these sort of consistent numbers they will never take off, not to mention my Jeep is 10 years old and 165,000 miles on it, taken care of, it will give another 100K miles easily, if it was an EV, it would have needed or VERY soon will need a crazy expensive battery. EVs are rich peoples toys that trade in no more than every 3 years, the people that can only afford a 10 year old car will never be able to buy an EV.
Deadly? Every time there is cold like this, some ICE cars break down as well. Do people die? No. They call a tow truck. Good grief.
Au contraire, mon amie… most people drive 40-50 miles or less every day. For most people who can charge at home, BEVs are the perfect car regardless of air temperature for typical daily driving. For me, BEV for local driving and PHEV for driving beyond home-charging range. Most households have two or more cars today
re: "In a cold weather area, you would be beyond insane to get an EV as your primary car". well yes for that is indeed the issue, these people ARE INSANE...!!! while we often make these statements rhetorically, however since most have no working knowledge of Psychology and Mental Health, the possibility that this might be the answer NEVER crosses our mind.
@@phillyphil1513 Most people that I know who own BEVs don't road-trip in them. They only charge at home. Not going to a gas station? priceless... Keeping a gas car in such a situation, where you never need to drive more than 100 miles a day? Insane, if you can charge at home.
No problem in AK, you just plug it in at night!
My Uber driver with a Model 3 said it took one hour and 45 minutes to charge it a few days ago when it was 15F in the morning…………never mind.
My 1995 f150 with ford 300 may not be good on gas but starts up everytime even in -20 when other vehicles won't.
Buddy pretty much any new vehicle with a good battery will start in pretty extreme weather no need to glorify your 95 😂.
@@daryl9799 not that ive seen also there new of course they should mine is a original engine with 280k miles I wanna see a modern engine do that after 20+ years
You haven't tried to crank my 96 diesel in that weather, especially in a test like this where plugging in the block heater would be cheating. Now add to that the issue with these cold temperatures where I live where stations don't switch from summer diesel to winter diesel, and now you also have a gelled tank of fuel that won't flow.
@@tornadotj2059 I usually put warm fire embers under my diesel in winter as well my diesel tank is wrapped to prevent jelling
I've never seen a vehicle not start at -20 unless it had a bad battery lol. Most diesels will too
The real test is to have two identical EVs and precondition one (both battery and interior) and have the other one be stone cold (like yours was). I'd be interested to then see how the frigid temps effect each car and how different their range ends up being.
Also, from personal experience, the tires and air temp seem to be less of a problem than the road conditions. If there's slush on the road that REALLY saps the power because of the increased rolling resistance.
Otherwise, with winter tires, a roof box and 0°F like temps I see a relatively minimal impact on range in our Polestar when distance driving with an average of around 55mph. But introduce slush on the road...and yeah, consumption goes way up.
The problem with EVs it is all constant experimentation and digging out the right way to do things out of a confusing mire of choices. I am sure some people enjoy this and good luck to them but that market must be pretty saturated by now. The big problem will be when people not happy in this complex high tech environment are forced in to it and go out on the roads.
you dont need to precondition a gas car to get better gas mileage in the cold. EV fans need to stop making excuses, and acknowledge that EVs still have problems with cold weather.
@@opfreakx7661it’s a different technology so some things are different.
On a Tesla, you turn on climate before you leave. It will also heat up the battery. You can do this from your phone or set a schedule to do it every morning before work.
It’s really not that hard… but I will say if you are doing a lot of driving each day and can’t charge at home, maybe an EV isn’t for you and stick with gas car.
Early January in Alberta we had temps in the negative 40s . That would be an extreme cold test.
Seems like an awful lot of hassle just to love an EV.
I'll hang on to my gas powered Tahoe. Best of luck with range anxiety.
As events in Chicago clearly showed, the real world test is charging at -20 F. All Chicago area Superchargers were overcrowded with Teslas that would charge. Why? Were the chargers, the cars or both at fault?
It wasn't all the chargers. It was one spot where the chargers failed. Unprepared owners were the other problem. It wasn't really that big of a deal but the anti-(whatever were mad about this week) crowd piled onto it.
150 in my model 3 is what I am seeing typical range in the bad winter weather. Most people would never do a 100 to zero run. I have the LFP battery M3 so I go 95% to about 10-15% depending on the risk I am willing to take. Going too low on winter day is a big risk in rural areas as you don't want to be stranded in negative temps far away from anyone.
So you get around 150 miles
If that was from 100%down to 2 like these guys 130 to 150mi depending on how long it street froze and how much you warmed yourself and the battery while driving. Thats where they lost 30 miles or so.
However, like you said best practices is not to drain and go to 100, but 30% charge to 80%....so cut the practical range in half....70 miles.
This is after you cut the full summer range in half with the cold.
A good test also may be 80% charged, left in freezing street parking with high wind for 3-4 days due to deep snow or wisely staying off the icy road for a weekend.
That is likely the situation for the Tesla Chicago Olympics on Tuesday after a 3 day weekend in 0F.
@@STho205the worst part is the range will drastically go down with age
@@joesniffedherfanny5928 maybe...maybe not. NiCads were terrible about aging out. That's what the original EV1, Leafs and Hondas had...and gave EVs that rep.
I tend to keep cars for 15 -20 years 200k mi, if I don't inadvertently buy a lemon. I've not yet seen EVs go that distance...but most haven't been around more than 8 years....with earlier ones really just prototypes.
@@STho205 I've been using lithium batteries for years they definitely hold up better than the nicad batteries but they definitely start losing performance after five or six years old and start going downhill from there once a Lithium powered car hits 8 or 9 years old you will probably have to pay someone to take it not even sure it would have good scrap value because of the cost of disposing of the battery
The engineers had to know all of this during their 'environmental' tests.
1. Cost and time required for full battery recharge.
2. Battery efficiency & range affected by cold temperature.
3. Effects of water on exposed lithium.
4. Fire hazards.
(( You know...trivial details like that.))
It’s not a EXTREME real world test, it’s simply a real world test.
You actually even went soft on it.
In many countries real winter tires are mandatory during winter per law, you have lots of mountains, cautious driving, no options for charging and need to heat up the interior way more.
Current EV solutions are simply toys, for slight commuting around town.
They are not real cars or trucks, and overall hazardous garbage.
Fun video!
Best wishes
Great video! Glad to know a general rule is to 1/2 range when driving in extreme cold.
More like 60-70% honestly.
I lose 15-25% of my range in the cold, HOWEVER.....driving in town uses regen braking more often, so you actually get better range in stop and go situations!
It's like going from 30 miles per gallon in a gas powered car to 18. I'd sell it. LOL
@@SCLARK2112 Ever drive a gas powered car in the negatives? It loses 25-30%.
and don't forget the longer charging time plus waiting in line to get to the charger.
We purchased a Model 3 in June of 2018. Over the 60,000 miles we averaged 235 Whr/mile. We took it on several road trips. Purchased a Model Y last October. We went to the California coast from here in central Arizona. The round trip was about 900 miles. I was surprised to see that the electric usage was averaging 295 Whr/mile up from our old Model 3. I really liked your comment about the need to have the Lidar again and not just the cameras. I still think they are not full calibrated for all situations. I would like to see an active front camera that activates when you go to park. I miss the Model 3 read out in inches. By the way great video!
Not to mention they are still somewhat dumb when it comes to being in cruise control as far as coming up on a car in the next lane that may not be quite holding the centre of the lane perfectly , but to a human driver would be just fine too pass, however the tesla has a tendency to jump on the brakes unnecessarily which can be anxiety producing when there is a truck or another car in reasonable close proximity to your rear end at highway speeds.
The computer crap has a long way to go before it’s actually up to scratch.
I’m sure the purveyors of these monstrosities fully tested and KNEW of every one of these shortcomings yet proceeded to push them on the marketplace.
Thank the left. This is being pushed by elites in government. The market does not want this EV stupidity. It is about money, power and control.
Excellent post. Potential consumers need this type of info if they live in cold climate states. Well-done.
As a Former Minnesotian, the roads were always being cleared by an unbeatable army of Snow plows. Even after a 18 inches of Snow the roads were way better then what you were on.
I agree. Unfortunately the increasingly efficient Minnesota snowplow crews have reduced my excuse for being late to work from 3 days to 1. I call whatever that stuff they put on the road "magic dust" because the roads are magically dry a day after the snow stops.
Who would want to live in Minnesota
I remember when they came out with governmental mileage estimates which at first could be overly optimistic. Then they added city and highway mileage estimates. I wish they would do a similar thing for EVs. They could have different mileage estimates for different driving conditions to give folks a better estimate. One could assume a city/highway range for 20-80% charge and 100% and maybe a factor for temp cold vs ambient say 0.8 (mileage estimates for cold are reduced by 80%).
EPA should require 70mph highway range. No one really has range anxiety doing local driving around town.
Someplace on youtube ia how the epa tests electric vehicles and its a faulted test. Like when it first came out in the 80s
It's why it's a good idea to check youtube or forums on cars you're interested in to see closer to real range tests. Would be nice if makers had more data, but can't seem to rely on that.
@@nipperdawg1865 EPA test is at 55mph on a dyno in a controlled climate space without a wind load. It's a flawed test scenario.
@@jstaffordiiminus the power it takes to run the AC and the stereo and the headlights and other electrical components
Its -16 in toronto this week. Haven’t seen many ev’s. in alberta some places are at -40+
Lolololol. Was it actually that cold in Toronto? In any case, there are lots of EVs in Toronto, more so than any other city in Canada. Even Edmonton has lots of EVs and its always cold there.
What's not being talked about is how taking your battery down to zero and charging in these conditions is basically destroying your battery pack
Those are the usual used tesla market and the reason for the depreciation/lack of buyers.
At last the future is here, I love it when my vehicle dictates to me, where and when I can drive and under what circumstances, this really is a step in a direction, not the right direction, that’s for sure.
Remember those pioneers who didn't have anything dictated to them? They just had to deal with exposure to the elements, natives who would ambush them, rivers without bridges and land as far as the eye could see with no roadways. Good thing we have folks today with a mindset like yours: If anything doesn't exactly as I want it to it sucks.
@@JollyLamaCom I’m not sure if you see my sarcasm, I’m from the uk, I know that a lot of Americans don’t get English sarcasm.
@@JollyLamaCom Good thing we have those people, they are the ones who solve problems now instead of forming a study group.
Thank you for doing this. Perfect example of what I've been saying all along. Now what happens if you get stuck in a snow storm or an accident on the road where you need to sit for a coupe of hours while they clear the roads.
Heat pump will run for 24 hours or more on 50% battery
@@Plisken65And then battery discharged enough to not make it to charging station? Or stuck by side of road? When I run out if gas, a gas can from nearby station and on my way agian.
@@slotcarfanwhen is the last time you ran out of gas?
@@ianrobertson3419 I ran out of gas once about 40 years ago and I didn't like it and strangely it hasn't happened since.
Thank you TFL for this test!!
I'm from NM and I know what brutal winters are like over here.
EV's just aren't fit for purpose.
Nice video guys!!
what was the cost of the recharge to compare mpg if possible?
We saw similar effect in Norway recently with my sons new Tesla 3. At minus 20deg C, it lost 40 percent of the range. It has a heat pump for heating. The other electric cars like Mercedes EQ, without heat pump lost at least 50 percent of range. They all have real winter tyres here, not some all weather crap.
Prove that statement with a video, R2-D2 Raj
As a Canadian I can vouch for the Cross Climates having run them on my other vehicle. They are decent tires in winter conditions, and All-Weather doesn't equal All-Season. That being said, I'm currently running X-Ice Snows on my EV6.
my cousin's Model x in Norway stopped charging in the ocld too :S; had to be towed?
Not everyone needs real winter tyre crap.
Do yourself a favor by starting educating yourself on tires. New gen of all weather tires are real.
Great job
It looks like the heater didn’t work too well. That’s a lot of coat to be wearing inside of a heated car.
Can you elaborate on the heating: was it turned all the way up? If not why not?
And compared to a ICE car in similar temps.
In an ICE, heat is waste energy, so you don’t lose range to heat the cabin. In an EV, air is heated using energy from the battery. So for people who want the most range, you don’t wanna run the heat on max.
@@lupe2947 You do wanna run your heat on max you just can’t because you won’t get where you’re going. No one that lives in a cold climate is giving up their heat to drive an EV.
@@michaelmaas5544 I literally said “For people who want the most range”. I mean, I couldn’t have been any more clear.
Notice he never took his winter jacket off.
@@lupe2947dumb question but does EV run a coolant thru the battery and heat exchanger like gas cars do to manage battery temp?
Like most others on the model 3 message boards and FB group, we saw avg about 20% real world less mileage than what telsa rate the cars at.
Depending on how cold it is outside, once you're near freezing or below, you'll get about 60~65% of the rated range and this is right on what I experienced in my M3P.
At or a little below freezing, the car started preconditioning for 30 minutes before arriving at a supercharger but was still unable to charge beyond 100 miles per hour charging. May have been something up with the charger though.
I don't have the car anymore (glad I did the 3 year lease though just to experience it and see what EV ownership was all about) but I'm back in a normal ICE car now and I don't regret the decision. My ICE car doesn't care about cold when it comes to range and gas stations are significantly less prone to outages due to cold.
When you changed the size of your tires, did you have to go into the computer to change the revolution per mile? Or does the Tesla determine mileage by GPS and not the way gasoline/diesel vehicles determine mileage and speed?
Between you and Out of Spec we got some great winter EV info today, thanks!
There was so much bad info because of one station going down in Chicago
@thedopplereffect00 lol those were irresponsible people and those channels know Tesla is king and they take every chance to attack haha
The station wasn't even offline, the hilarious part is that all the least competent owners unknowingly got routed to the same supercharger after they ignored their state of charge and didn't have even the sense to pre-condition their batteries and so many of the charges just wouldn't start and many of them damaged the handles out of frustration and ignorance. We need to call it like it is more in this world.
@@supraman321na4 Perfect example of 3 in-denial youtube commenters above (thedopplereffect, DrFrisb, & Supraman). Lol
@@RT-mv7df ok, sweet rebuttal bro 👍
Oh man, I definitely don’t miss the Denver drivers. Tommy, as always, spot on. Drive slow if you want, just stay out of the fast lane.
Trouble is, 150 miles, is in reality about a 60 mile 'trip range' assuming one simply wishes to go somewhere and return. In the case of where I live in the Scottish Borders, we couldn't do our local hospital with any confidence.
In the Summer with factory tires the range “still isn’t even close to the EPA estimate” indicates a battery issue or other problem such as a wheel bearing dragging.
Apparently Tesla has been receiving lower quality lithium and other low raw materials used in their batteries which has been affecting range and longevity.
Tesla engineers absolutely need to sort out the Summer time use low range issue.
-43 to -45 C or similar F around here, Edmonton Alberta, this last weekend. Waiting to hear any real life reports from EV owners.
When a balmy -7 after -37 and -35 F lows, I decided to try a supply run into town from this remote farm. 2002 GMC Envoy w/340,000 miles (no tank heater; on the list). She turned over and had to work through a few LOW OIL PRESSURE STOP ENGINE! issues once oil got out of the taffy stage then all good. No way would I trust EVs in these vast, hostile landscapes as failure could be death.
@CoalCreekCroft no way I'd trust a GMC!😂
@@CoalCreekCroft This is the main issue in remote locales, its not annoying its potentially life threatening
@@wraith8323 Yes, that's for sure. Each grocery run reminds me again of just ... how ... much ... raw distance there is around. yeah, some scattered ranches/farms near roads but pick the wrong day and good luck unless you're towing a spare car.
I didn't look but may have been comment on landscape between Ashland and Broadus; plenty of open, rolling vistas to the horizon. In October I pulled a "top fear" by crashing; ice slide-off almost in the middle of it (mile or 2 E of Sonnette Rd junction).
Enough cell signal for 911 to be unable to hear before gone altogether. REALLY good views of the horizon-to, etc. Double Uh-Oh as it was a critical cat "rush to vet" (perfect timing but I digress). I had also raced out w/o cutting the Gandalf wannabe beard experiment with questionable fashions; not the best to flag down people.
THAT all ended up okay (even the cat) thanks to fortune and timing nobody could expect. I type too fast and too much already. EV owners MUST have, duh, charger maps but if any came up here THINKING there must be, they'd be dead in the water. IF they made it between stations that don't exist.
I'm new to area; was prepared but still surprised at times. Turned out ZERO tow trucks in my small town (no surprise) OR Broadus (bigger town and county seat as if that mattered). Had to come from Colstrip, near 90 miles one-way. CHARGING stations? Good luck. Manifesto ends.
@@CoalCreekCroft Fellow Edmontonian here, had my ICE truck outside during the cold snap for days, not plugged in either, fired right up.
So I wonder at the degrade to the battery when it gets frozen. I know that it won't charge fully again, just like your phone battery, but how long a life will the battery have?
Suggestions: do the same test but precondition the car outside first. Very interested to see how much this helps range.
I've never seen your channel before. You guys have very clear explanations and the editing is good.
If I had to precondition my ICE car with 5% of a tank of gas, I'd be pissed. If I also had to wait 30 minutes to fill up my tank, I'd sell it on RUclips too.
LOL. What if you lost almost half your gas on a full tank than what your manufacturer's MPG rating estimated?
I live in a rural area near Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. In 2021 we bought a brand new 2021 Hyundai SantaFe Non-plugin Hybrid. In the summer, we average 6.5 liters per 100 km or 36 mpg. In the winter, we average 7.5 liters per 100 km or 31.5 mpg. We don't have to plug anything in, we just fill it with fuel and off we go. We also own a 2007 SantaFe with nearly 400,000 km on it and still going strong. It is now our workhorse for pulling a utility trailer or when we need two vehicles. It has a 3.3L engine and I know it uses nearly double the fuel of our non-plugin hybrid. In my opinion non-plugin is the way to go, it is exactly like driving a regular gas vehicle, but with significant fuel savings. The recovery braking converts the energy of stopping back in the battery instead of conventional braking, which just converts it to heat, and nothing recovered. One of the best decisions we've ever made.
What is the warranty on the battery in the hybrid?
I always find it funny when people clean snow off from bottom to top... I was born and raised in Southern California and got stationed at Ft. Drum NY. I asked people born and raised there why they do that, and they looked at me like i was a genius 🤦♂️😂🤷♂️
I have an ICE vehicle. I have the Cross Climate 2s for 20k miles. It is fantastic in snow but I did get a 9-10% reduction in mileage compared to my previous set of Michelin pilot AS. This has been verified by some testers. Should take that into consideration with your testing.
i have had those tires on my subaru outback for 42,000 miles and 2 years 3 weeks i am one of the guys who checks my mileage quite often its one of my crazy quirks but I cant honestly say Ive seen more then a 1 mile per gallon recuction in gas mileage but I do love those tires especially and rain and snow great traction
@@robertthomson9340 I have a heavier suv (Q5) the weight (4500lbs) might compound the difference. I’ve noticed a 1.5 to 2 mpg drop. It is a great tire for any inclement weather.
EV6 GT, I am losing about 7.5% range vs PSAS4's.
I’ve found that if able with your car, moving to a smaller wheel diameter with narrower, higher profile tire often results in lower overall wheel/tire weight which offsets higher rolling resistance of winter tires to a large degree. You have extra cost of the wheels of course, but I keep my vehicles a long time and ease and reduced cost of just swapping the sets each season vs. remounting and balancing tires twice a year makes up for it. And you get slightly better traction than with stock sized winter tires.
I rarely have time to write a comment, but this was an excellent test on a realistic, tough scenario. I can only point out that unless you have an LFP-equipped EV, the car operator/owner may start with an 80% to 90% available range instead of 100%. Many people do not pay attention to the weather advisories and may get caught with the said lesser charge percentage. That being said, Tommy's recommendation of a 50% drop compensates for my observation.
Thank you for taking the time to perform this test.
P.S. I wonder if you have done a test of an identical scenario with an EV truck towing an "average" sized trailer/camper. If you haven't, I hope you do. I know it is easier said than done. If you have done this, I apologize for missing it.
Another channel did a towing test. I don't remember which channel, maybe you can find it with a search. Unsurprisingly, the results were dismal
8:06 I see that here in Michigan too, I don't understand why people turn their hazards on.... WE'RE ALL DRIVING IN THE SAME CONDITIONS!
Maybe they figure since they’re going slower than everyone else, it’s a good idea to have their flashers on so someone won’t run up on them is lower visibility. I agree with that thinking, but even better would be to do that while staying out of the passing lane!
I often wish I had a public address system so I could ask them to state the nature of their emergency?
I live in a cold snowy area in the mountains. Lots of Teslas in the summer. Most are parked for the winter though
Really useful information; thanks for running this test and posting the results.
While you had that Model 3, did you do any highway driving and get any idea how close the Tesla claimed mileage was to your actual experience?
Considering Tesla is facing a class action lawsuit over false range claims I'm going to guess it's nowhere even close to advertised range even in warm weather.
I have nearly the exact same car. In perfect conditions, going 70MPH with minimal HVAC, you can expect around 260-285 miles of Range. As conditions worsen or speed increases, this will begin to drop.
The EPA rating is a Perfect Conditions in a 30-60MPH with very gradual accel/decel. It's perfectly achievable, but not at highway speeds.
If you're going 20MPH to 50MPH only in perfect conditions, you can beat EPA.
That all be saying, I don't like how they promote range and how they use it to measure battery capacity. I always switch to % instead. If you want an accurate range, you go into the consumption menu and you can get a remaining range guess based on usage over 5, 15, or 30 miles.
@@glamdring0007 As a Tesla model 3 owner, with over 80,000 kms on it. I can verify the range accuracy in warmer weather! But I don't understand why people were duped about the range in extreme heat, or cold..!? Tesla is very upfront about it...
@@JamesKirk1988 Many, MANY thanks for this! It is extremely useful for planning purposes. Since there have been all kinds of "indicated" mileages, do you know what EPA mileage Tesla indicated you should expect?
Love to see that test done again starting off with a warm garage-kept car, preconditioned battery, and conservative hvac use during the drive. Wonder what the difference in range would be. Not huge, I'm sure, but I'm curious.
Very few people have a heated garage...not sure there would be much value in testing it
@@glamdring0007 True. I meant to imply a normal garage.
Don't need a heated garage, just being plugged in to a 220v power source would have the battery preconditioned for optimal performance. That would make a significant difference in range.
Conservative HVAC would be so far from a real world test and if you can't run the heater in sub zero temps because you're scared you might stall out, that's a problem.
@@donaldbiden9492 True, but that's not what I meant. I mean lowering the temp a couple more degrees, then turning off the heated seats and steering wheel after they warm up. Perfectly reasonable.
Your average American home uses 30kWh per day. So this car just used the energy of 2 homes to go 158 miles. What a joke. Very enviormentally friendly huh?
When you put it like that. That's insane.
Canada here. When it gets cold, I'm passing Teslas on the highway going 45-50 mph and they're probably driving white knuckles while watching the range dropping. If I'm ever forced to abandon my ICE, it'll be a hybrid with a battery large enough for daily commute but still capable to rely on gas stations for longer distances
What highway you talking about? I've never seen a Tesla driving that slow.
@@ianrobertson3419 Hwy 16, the Yellowhead, from Portage to Russell MB. Yes, I've never seen that either, except that one time when it was ~ -30C. No idea how long he was driving on that charge, but the system was probably telling him how fast he could go in order to reach this destination on the remaining charge
You guys are smart for using better sniw tires. I live in Southern Idaho and most people use cheaper All season tires all year all the time unless they have a truck or suv. Then they just use All terrains or mud terrains. And a lot of us go sliding all over the place or losing a lot of traction and getting stuck in snow. (I'm one of those goobers with All Seasons all the time)
I think they are running 3-peak severe snow rated "all season" tires. The key is the 3-peak rating. Many all-season tires do not have this rating and it makes a big difference in the snow/ice. When these reviewers mention the tires during winter weather testing, they really need to mention the 3-peak rating.
@@markmonroe7330 I don't know if they do or not I thought I heard them mention the 3 peak rating but regardless the Goodyear Crossclimates are 3 peak rated and really good in the snow vs what most people run where I live.
@@lidolf8168Crossclimate 2 is Michelin. I am on my third set. I love them for all driving conditions. They do everything very well.
The Michelin Cross Climates have a good reputation in Europe. In tyre tests against full studless European winter tyres they typically finish in the top third of the table despite being a genuine all season/all weather tyre that is also designed to cope with 90-100 degree summer temps in southern Europe and lots of rain. I don't run them myself, but those folks I know who do have them are generally very happy with the tyre throughout the year.
@@Pesmog Yeah from what I've read they are really good tires. If only I had enough money to buy me some.
Since I live in the Chicago suburbs in an apartment without on-site charging and we are a 1 car household, a Tesla is of no use to me. Your video proves that to me. Thanks!
Exactly, and the many news stories of charging lots full of dead Teslas that couldn't charge in the cold up there proves your point!
Do you cut mileage in half for 110deg days in Az also?
Great video. Most gas cars trigger a low fuel warning with about 50 miles of range left so the max comfortable range would be about 100 miles. This is of course if you charge beyond the recommended 80% for longevity. City life this would work. ✌🏻
Who'd have believed it, battery powered cars not working too well in the cold🙃 My son works for a company here in the UK who in their wisdom changed their fleet of vans from diesel to battery power. The range in warm weather being just 170 miles, dropping to around 140 miles during this cold snap. Drivers are being instructed to dress up warm, and to not use the heaters, as the downtime charging the vans is costing the company a shed load of money, and despite the hit the company will take changing back to ICE vans, they are serious;y considering it. Crazy😜
atleast the ev`s start, lots of diesel cars cars strugle to start in the cold.
Company planned poorly and didn't use the worse case range of the vehicles it chose.
They should have bought Vans with bigger ranges. That is just stupidity. And now switching back? Somebody should get fired.
Vans with longer range are needed. In the meantime, fleets should be careful to know how much range they need for all-day operation, including during winter when the Vans, and their batteries, are older.
@@bossman6174 what ev with bigger range. My bet is they are the Stelantis toyota/peugeot/citroen/opel/fiat van that has been the only one really on offer. 75kwh battery. Only this year has MB realsed the Vito with a bigger battery but they are stupidly expensive. yes there is the buz cargo but going by the enyaqs at work they are worse + they are only available in short version
The stellantis van is crap, has allways been but when ISO certification states maximum amount off emssions you don't really have much choice. I been btw sitting around 50kwh/100km (1.2mi/kwh) with it now when tempertures been hovering around -30c here with it.
Hertz is dumping their EVs very cheap so you may have some competition for customers for your Tesla.
My concern with this electric grid scenario is this,
Subzero temps, vehicles going twice as often to charging stations, dismal performing heat pumps for home heating, straining old undersized high power lines will be a roll of the dice!
It's not a concern for anyone who's looked into it. Most people don't know what uses electricity or how much it uses.
Yes, I have talked about how bad EV's are... Imagine you put a 100% fill of gas in your car, the next morning you're down 3%... over a dive you lose 40% more than normal, but then you go fill up again and after pumping what would be 100% fill, you get 20% fill... but you paid for 100% fill....
Every point I used to talk about is now becoming main stream, not all the things I have talked about. Like taxes will make charging an instant 25% more in cost, like charging at home will in fact get regulated and taxed by the Government... That tax pays for roads, you can't not pay for the roads.
It blows my mind how simple all this is... If you charge for X amount of time, and normally you get a "full charge..." but because it's hot or cold you get 10-30% of a charge for the same energy usage, you are paying for 70-90% of energy you never get to use...
Feel free to prove me wrong, I'm ok with being wrong... but imagine you dump 70-90% of your gas on the ground because it's cold out, THEN you get a 40% reduction when you drive because it's cold... THEN you lose 3% over 1 night. Even if you got 30% from the charge, you lost 43% of that to nothing... thus you have around 18% of an actual charge... now imagine you got only 10% of a charge because it was cold, but once you drive you get that 40% loss, then 3% more over night... that means you only got 5% of the original 100% cost to charge...
All that energy comes from burning fossil fuels... YOU ARE BURNING VASTLY MORE FFs IN ORDER TO OWN AN EV.
3% in 12 hours for this case. Imagine if you parked for the weekend and lost 12% by Monday?
@@robertkubrick3738 The question is what % dose a particular BEV lose in a month sitting there at different locations globally. In Cali what if you lose on average, 10% a month, but in Washington it's 15% in a month, meaning the total required energy input is 10 or 15%. That means on a yearly, BEVs are 10-15% less efficient than we are being told...
Of course this is hard to do because we have to consider storing conditions, yearly temps and local temps, high altitude being much colder.
My point is that BEV's high efficiency is more due to leaving out all of the losses.
From theoretical 289 to real life range of 162 miles, that was a huge reduction. A whopping 44% reduction in range.
On tires that don't belong and a performance model where range isn't the focus.😅
You have to remember, that's due to 100 percent highway driving, not all of it was due to the cold. Course ICE cars do better on the highway because they don't stop and go.
Just keep in mind that the 279 miles estimated at 96% is already a bit inflated based on Tesla's EPA testing methodology. Realistically, it probably only lost 30-35% due to the weather and conditions.
@@sprockkets Remember that driving half the speed means running the HVAC and heated seats twice as long.
It did pretty well given the horrible road conditions.
Those Cross Climates really are fantastic tires, I've run them for the last 3 years and have had no issues.
Vs blizzak ws90
Agreed, fantastic tires
@@Tigerex966 The WS90 is leagues better than the Cross Climate in winter conditions. The CCs are "all weather" tires and the WS90s are true deticated winter tires. The CCs are good for places that get mild winters with minimal/ occasional snow fall, while the Blizzaks are your best choice for regions with real winters (6ft+ annual snow fall and avg temps below 10°F). Here in northern QC, Canada, blizzaks are peoples 1st choice for a reason!
@@EliteSlayer542 Not sure why people always talk about Blizzaks when Michelin Pilot Alpin 5 or X-Ice snow are better winter tires..
@nabushdinosaure xIce has been tested to perform slightly better on ice & cold bare pavement in some tests, and some report the Ws90 to beat it even on ice. Depends on the tests/ review. But all tests show the ws90 to be best in snow.
Considering the price difference (nearly 40$ Canadian!), the blizzak is the winner here. Now, previous generations (ws80) had an issue with tread life, but the ws90 corrected it. Only tire that performs better is a Nokian tire im forgetting the name of (hakapalika h3?) but they're impossible to find up here in Canada, so nobody really knows about them.
Great info for an owner. I'd love to see tests at various levels of temperatures. Test the car at 32 degrees, maybe 45 degrees, and on up to hot outside levels and compare mileage delivered. I see no problem in using an EV in such cold, just keep in mind that mileage will be reduced. I'd also like to see the same test done on the same car kept in a nice cozy garage overnight, warmed cabin off of shore-power, and then run the same loop. That would be great info for any EV driver. Even at that, for us, a 150-mile range, even though we don't reach below zero degrees here, will cover close to a week's driving. I'm retired and my wife works from home. I have no issues with EV's at all, but I don't pretend they're for everyone.... not yet.
-15 here before bed 407 mile range. woke up -2, 407 mile range. oh that's right ICE. nvm
I would have loved to see you take that Mazda 3 in the garage and do the same test in parallel ........ FYI - I left my Kona Electric outside last night in -16C (3F) and then drove it around town today in the snow and -11C (12F). The gom said about a 40% range reduction when I started driving it based on normal city driving. When I reached my destination the gom was up by 45kms which would be about a 25-30% range reduction on what I would expect for the same soc. So, for highway driving a 40% reduction would seem about right as a guesstimate for the Kona too.
The Kona is smaller & lighter also. Not know for efficiency. Would be a good test.
I'm not sure why you are challenging to test the Mazda 3... but I can help you figure out what would happen. You go outside, you start the car, you drive it and yiu don't botter about the lost of economy in the cold that is about 6 %.... so it is a, "just like the other days" drive. When you run out of gas, you stop because there is always a gas station ready and near you, , no reservation, no preheating nothing, you fill in 8 minutes, and after you go...and on and.on.. pretty simple right?
I have a 2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT. I usually get 14-15 mpg. This week I got 10.7 mpg currently. It might get a little lower with a few more short trips and extended idling.
Short trips - always lower the mpg averages. Only true mpg comes from a long drive at consistent speed.
@@johnmcvicker6728 this.
Speeding up and slowing down constantly burns excess fuel, same goes for running.
I have 2022 Model 3 AWD Long Range. I have about 29,000 kilometres on the car. I use 18” snow tires. I live in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada. This past week we have had temps in the -20 to -30 Celcius. I am using a maximum range of 40% of EPA rating for my city driving. Winnipeg is pretty flat. My previous ICE cars never got close to their EPA rating especially in our winters. Since all EVs are tested the same way, you will always do better in winter with the longest EPA range vehicle that you can get (afford) regardless of manufacturer.
The Majority of the loss was due to Tire Drag on the bad roads. I own a 2018 M3. I will never buy another Ice vehicle again. It always goes when I get in it. Never breaks down. No money for my electricity goes to some oil Sheik in the Middle east, the #1 reason I bought the Car. #2 Most Made in America Vehicle you can buy. #3 Far more reliable than an Ice with hundreds of moving parts in the Motor and Transmission/transfer case that require regular Maintenance that most people don't do on their own...... Drove from Denver to N Utah over i70 June. From Full charge stopped at Grand Junction for a pee break, charged for only that time then stopped in Green River (only 100 miles away) Utah charged and ate at a nice restaurant across the street. Drove home Both SC stops cost me about $20. At the time Gas was $4 a gallon. Do all that on 5 gallons of gas!!!!!
That's awesome ideal, reason I saw just today a number of EV ,catch on fire and the worst part is it was in the garage which was apart of the house so both were burning down to the ground and every time EV catch on fire it takes over a hour to put out the fire, because soon as it out it starts back up again EV own are even dieing in some of these cars fire spread to fast.
What has that got to do with a cold range road test?
@@bossman6174maybe because it might be safer to park your car outside, making this a real world test.
@@656hookemhorns
Great common sense answer👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
If you look at stats from Norway where they have a high per capita number of EVs, an ICE vehicle is about 3x more likely to have a fire than an EV.
In over a decade in Russia, I can count the number of Teslas I've seen on one hand - EV performance in cold climates (as featured in the video) is one of the reasons.
In early December most of Eastern Russia (an area not too disimilar to the size of the entire US) experienced several days of -58°C to -71°C (-72°F to -96°F) temperatures. It's a challenge to run even an ICE vehicle in such conditions - but possible. A Tesla, I think not.
I’d assume you can for much much less range. Maybe 100mi or less per full charge
@@PPerSO I don't think you understand, in the city of Yakutsk (population c. 350,000+) and the surrounding Sakha Republic (for example), winter temperatures of -71°C (-96°F) are not unusual.
For context, in terms of size, the Sakha Republic covers about 20% of Russia's land mass or would occupy an area close to 33% of the entire United States.
If you want to use your car during the colder months (December through to February), and it's a typical cold winter, you have only 3 choices:
1) Store your car in a heated garage, and keep the engine running when you park it outside - or
2) Keep your car in an insulated and heated car cover when not using it, and again keep the engine running at all times when parked outside at your destination - or
3) If you keep your car parked outside (without the benefits of 1. or 2.) you need to keep the engine running 24/7.
If you can't do any of the above, your car and its moving parts will likely become frozen and you won't be able to use your car until the spring thaw arrives.
Another consideration is that at least in an ICE vehicle you may have options if your car has a problem.... a Tesla does not. I don't think you could use a Tesla in Central and Eastern Russia, and even trying to run a Tesla in Western Russia during the winter would also present problems, and be totally impractical.
A friend of mine worked in Russia (Novosibirsk) for about five years before being called back due to the little scuffle going on at the moment.
Some of the videos he sent me looked brutal. Most people living in most places just wouldn't understand how harsh the winters can be. Even with his brand new company car (Audi q5), with heated screens and all the rest he said there are a couple months per year where getting around is pretty much impossible or at least a big gamble.
A lot of Teslas in Norway
@@siraff4461 I know someone who's originally from Novosibirsk, and someone else who went to a boarding school there. It's an extremely cold city, with a poulation of about 1.5m people.
Typically winter temperatures there are colder than Moscow, but Novosibirsk is only about 1,000km into Siberia. From there if you continue east for another (say) 5,000km, it just gets colder and colder the further you go in that direction....
Another awesome TFL Test. The same cold weather issue with my 2015 Lexus RX450h AWD Hybrid especially in snow mode. The hybrid battery range and charging time performance significantly less.
Good you buy one, if I run low I can stop at a gas station and I don't have to wait 20 to 40 minutes or longer and that's not a full charge
Still watching the video, so I have not seen the results yet but I can share my experience after two winter seasons. I daily drive a Tesla Model 3 Long Range for 95 km, mostly on the highway. Before I leave from home, I warm up the cabin and the battery (usually takes 10-15 minutes to warm up the battery). Where I live, the winter is pretty much 0-5 degrees C when I leave from home. Anyway, when I am back, after driving those 95 km, the range dropped by ~200 km, so the range drops to a bit less than half. Back to the video now, I am curious to see your results.
When I lived in wisconsin and drove my 2009 prius I still averaged 38 mpg and thats with all the terrible conditions and snowtires
Wisconsin doesn't get cold tho 🤪
Negative 11 today. Feels like minus 27 with the wind.
Negative 11 today. Feels like minus 27 with the wind.
@@robertk1049 about the same here in Minnesota 🤮
The older your batteries are, the more impact cold weather will have an impact on your vehicle as well.
Having just finished a week of -35C here in BC, -19C doesn't sound very frigid. What is with the torque and Parker when driving? Don't you have the heater on or are they just standard equipment for a Tesla?
That should read, Parka!
@@billlindsay9105 And toque!