I'm surprised you didn't mention that the individual who ended his life in the incident which led to the cancellation of To Catch a Predator was a district attorney. He had been caught attempting to lure what he believed was a 13-year-old boy.
I have a lot of respect for the vast majority of UK teams. They do a huge amount of good, despite the ridiculously lenient response of the law, even upon conviction.
You mentioned that the person caught ended their life. You didn’t mention that they were an assistant district attorney and that the show was forced to be shut down by other law enforcement trying to protect the monsters in their ranks.
Yes, vigilantism is almost always ill-advised. However, it's also important to see it as an expression of people's frustration with the ineffectiveness of our justice system -- where it seems like perpetrators are getting off scot-free a lot of the time. Maybe it's time to start retooling our justice system so that people can trust it to function properly. When that happens, there won't be much motivation for vigilantism in the first place.
The vigilantes don't care about justice. That's why they practice on what to say and what not to say to avoid getting punished on their own wrong doings.
These people aren’t vigilantes, they don’t punish these people, they expose them. They’re essentially a private investigators. If they were vigilantes, we probably wouldn’t be seeing their videos on RUclips
Well, the point your making would again depend on a person's perspective and their own personal biases. You say that "vigilantism is an example of people's frustration with the ineffectiveness of our justice systemc", however, others might say that our justice system already engages in over-reach with overly powerful prosecutors and a society that relies too heavily on incarceration.
One thing that stood out to me during the Hanson “to catch a predator “ many of the suspects knew about the show and even thought about it and how the person they were talking to online could be a sting operation. Despite this their interests in hooking up with someone under Age outweighed the known risks involved.
And Later HANSEN GOT CAUGHT TOO; he was a grifter and cheater. It Used to be in some societies you could be put to death for THAT. He was so creepy like he was some high Lord sitting above everyone licking his chops.
@@robertgiles9124 no but it is possible to be unaware of laws that exist. But everyone knows touching is illegal & wrong. Yeah some people do care like the ones that kill their abuser. They care about stopping them. And technically they are a criminal but also a low key hero… IMO… since u asked.
Very glad to get back to your episodes. I've been deeply distracted by hurricane Ian. My prayers to all who have suffered loss. We were spared, but my heart is with those who were not.
So true Ryan! He couldn't even get the predator's name right. This former officer chose to go to a jury trial and was CONVICTED. If he had actually researched the topic and PCI, his opinion on predator catchers might change. Someone has to protect the children!
As police departments and District Attorneys practice their social experiment on their population by not prosecuting or letting criminals out, vigilantes will only increase.
VIGILANTE(pronounced: vig•i•lan•te) - noun: a member of a self-appointed group of citizens who undertake law enforcement in their community without legal authority, typically because the legal agencies are thought to be inadequate.
The funniest vigilante catches was when known scam artist Ramy went to Egypt and did a couple of catches where he came close to getting murdered. I look at these creep catchers as pure candid camera inspired entertainment and I really enjoy watching the catches while also realizing money is the main motivational factor for these vigilantes who will constantly talk about where one could donate to them. I also do enjoy watching someone like Alex's precise interrogation techniques where he befriends the predator and masterfully gets them to admit everything in front of thousands of live viewers.
alex is the best by far but he's also a shit person and i'm convinced he only does it to have fun destroying peoples lives in a legal way. i dont think he really cares about catching preds.
I disagree that money is the "main" motivation. Many of these guys were childhood victims or have family members who were. Most of them started this part time to seek justice, but found that there are so many creeps that they started doing it full time, necessitating income to keep going
Where we can find those shows to donate to them? I dont care if they do it for money, if they can help the good people is totally fine anyways is a job and it deserves to be paid
@@ArkaraValtare3729 predator catchers muncie, lc predator catcher, people v preds, gordon flowers, pp toronto, protect the innocent...those are a start.
I was peripherally associated with two online groups that found predictors in the 90's, which was the wild, wild west of the internet. Child pornography was posted in profiles on yahoo chat. Un neither group did the members try to apprehend the subjects. They forwarded the chat logs to an appropriate law enforcement agency. Sometimes, the member was asked to continue to a meeting with the suspect. At that point, the police were supervising. I cannot recall any religious member in both groups. Times have changed apparently.
@@forallthestupidshit3550 Seems America has gone 100% woke. I don't mix religion or politics with the need to persecute or expose child predators like Hunter and his Dad.
I honestly wish these types of groups were somehow able to get licensed after receiving proper training in order to work alongside law-enforcement, but the few I’ve observed on YT seem more about getting views, potential sponsorships, and monetizing content.
@@neighbor472 they are in the most minuscule minority then. As the original comment pointed out, many are not trained, do not conduct proper investigations, do not understand entrapment, and end up making sure nothing can be done in court against these predators.
Law enforcement isn't even well-trained enough to be trusted to apprehend people -- why should we trust any other rando violent people who are on a crusade to be any better?
Many of them do work alongside lae enforcement. They have a big book of evidence that they give to the reasoning officers. From there it is up to the officers to decide if they want to just let the pxdophiles roam or do something about it. Typically they just let them roam. Really sad we as a country don't just lxnch these people.
@@forallthestupidshit3550 Yet they still do more to protect children and bring forth justice than the federal government which is content to sit back and let children be abused so long as they have their power and mountains of our stolen tax money to play God with.
Proper training? These people need a shrink more often then not, you wouldn't want them working with law enforcement (who could often use shrinks themselves).
I enjoyed the Yoko Ono comment, very funny. Your analyses of your subjects are interesting, interspersed with humour. Thank you for the uploads Dr Grande.
Two thoughts: 1) I have watched plenty of 'predator catcher' type groups in both the US and the UK, but I have never discerned any religious motivations in any of them- ever. 2) Trained cops blundering and lying is mostly caused by years of cultural on-the-job sloppiness, mixed with a desire to protect their jobs & pensions. Predator catchers don't have those motivations.
Predator catchers have clout, money, bias, and poor judgment to have them make similar mistakes. Nobody likes peds but the fact is what these people do 9/10 isn't helpful and could become dangerous. I've also seen a few "bloopers" of different channels accusing the wrong person. The loud public shaming battle cry isn't as helpful as they think it is. We all know how TCAP ended and I feel there's very little reason for one of these people to point the gun at others before themselves. I'm not defending predators but I don't think investigations should be handled by random folk with no authority or training
@Waterboarding Tommy Fellows With Molasses how effectively has it protected kids? It let's a bunch of people on the internet know that someone might be a potential predator. I'm positive people in real life aren't gonna take the person holding a phone to someone's face yelling "he's here to meet a 13yo boy" as seriously as you think.
@Waterboarding Tommy Fellows With Molasses Glad to see wit and logic are on your side, when a conversation hits a dead end it's always nice to accuse the other side of a heinous act instead of thinking about the real world applications of vigilantism. You'll never be the punisher, the closest you'll get to is William Foster. You can't see past punishing bad people when you're meant to be protecting innocent kids. Eb homeless or jobless is a punishment but I don't think it really stops them from offending, even TCAP had repeat offenders
I write from Ireland and I really enjoy your videos. Your analysis of this phenomenon is absolutely correct. I myself was accused of a crime in my youth and the Police officers involved lied through their teeth throughout the process. It was only after my Lawyer was able to discredit their version of events, using CCTV footage from the alleged crime scene, that the charges against me were dropped. The whole experience taught me that the so called, good guys, are more than capable of criminal behavior in pursuit of a conviction. If the men in uniform are so untrustworthy, how can religious zealots be allowed to operate with impunity?
Pedophile catchers cannot "operate with impunity", the law obviously applies to them too, I don't know where you got that from. Your story is irrelevant to the morality and acceptability of people tricking and calling the police on pedophiles who believe they are meeting children.
@@maitiucibhleachain5139 I was merely pointing out that the Police often get tunnel vision when it comes to getting a conviction. The vigilantes are also often people who employ tunnel vision, usually because of warped religious beliefs, as pointed out in the video.
@@robg5958 I have watched tons of videos of pedophiles being caught attempting to meet children, many are quite long as they wait for police to arrive. The majority I've seen have been from the UK, but a good few from America too. Not one comment made in any of those hours of footage I've was about religion in any way. I have never seen pedophile catcher I thought was doing what they were doing because of their religion. "usually" - gonna need a source for that. This seems to be a ridiculous stereotype, and even if people were inspired by their faith to catch those attempting to meet and r*pe children, what's the problem in that being an inspiration for such a public service?
I was really interested in hearing your analysis on this subject. Ask and you shall receive, haha. The speed in which you make these detailed and insightful videos is incredible, Dr. Grande. Thank you for another in depth analysis. I appreciate your hard work. 🙏
This! I literally just left a comment that echos very similar sentiments. How Dr. G manages to put out so many of these blows my mind. I’m assuming he has some sort of private practice/clinical job , a family and life, he may even teach classes too- a lot of psychiatrists/mental health professionals also teach college courses here and there too…and he still manages to release well researched high quality videos more often than I change my damn socks. 😂😭
The speed in which these videos are produced could also signify a gap in research. Grande is making sweeping claims about an entire group of people based on the actions and persona of one pred catcher. I think the Dr could have watched a few more predator catchers.
@@Breakstop It definitely would’ve been interesting had he covered other predator investigations for sure. I at first thought there would be a bit more on him talking about to catch a predator the show because that’s what I originally requested. But still, I’ll take what I can get I guess.
@@Breakstop agreed. He seems like he's probably a really smart guy in other contexts, but you can't just read a few articles and think you have your finger on the pulse of what you just read.
A man in my former neighborhood had too much to drink and put his hand up the dress of his 15 year old daughters friend. Not far up, just above her knee. He served a year in jail, is on the Megan's Law website and has had his house burned down, has been beaten up several times and in the hospital many weeks because of self apoinyed vigilantes. He has never reoffended. He is very disabled now because of this and lives in a tent on the river bed. Hos assailants have never faced justice. Eric needs to be stopped.
I’m sorry but if one of my friends fathers had put his hands up my skirt when I was 15, I don’t care if he was drunk or not, that would’ve traumatized me or any other young teenager who trusts that the parents of their friends won’t see them like that. Not saying I agree with burning the man’s house down, but you don’t get to stick your hands up your teen daughters friends skirt, and not face consequences.
Jesus said, "whoever offends these little ones, it is better that a large stone was tied around his neck and he were cast into the sea." Alcoholics don't get a pass.
“Not far up,just above the knee”. 😮 The Justice system tried and convicted and punished him. What people took upon themselves to do to him was wrong. I am glad that 15 year old he assaulted was not silenced and forced to live with what was done to her without any justice.
Entrapment is when law enforcement creates a situation wherein a person commits a crime that they would not have committed on their own. I don’t know if it applies to vigilantes. But that seems likely to be what happened with the guy who ended up in prison.
Yeah but we want to get rid of them, that includes carriers to get rid of them properly. If there’s no evidence for them to get arrested, that could be misinformation or slander. I mean if you wake up the next day and everyone calls you a pedo, how would you feel? A lot of anger and scorn.
Thanks for bringing this up. its a huge area of very sick people preying on innocent kids. But, what solution is there to prevent and police this??? I cant think of another better than this.
Reminds me of the Internet Sleuths involved in the Elisa Lam case and how they ruined the metal musician's life, I think such organisations need more legal training and definitely need to establish an ethical behaviour through which they interact with targets. There are several OSINT Organisations who work on unsolved cases, and they always submit their findings to law-enforcement.
Chris Hansen literally caught another cop the same day this was posted. These "vigilantes" are focusing on a much needed area & saving a lot lof people from being hurt. Who cares if a child predator is threatened or embarrassed?
Some of these groups have legit stopped some child abductions and caught registered sex offenders. The problem is (this is common among vigilante groups who take on these) they begin overstepping their grounds..To keep things exciting for their viewers (a lot of them is about views and subscribes) they get more edgy. I've seen one channel as their popularity grew they started getting more aggressive & confrontational on their "catches." In other words, they get more cocky and "comfortable" the more they do it. I think that's a problem.
Eventually one of them is going to get killed. Chris Hansen and his qualified security personnel (and present law enforcement) knew how to handle potential dangerous situations. These wannabe vigilante guys however tend to deliberately be provocative.
Batman comes to mind as fictional character vigilantes. a moral compass is often compromised when it comes to these real life types of vigilantes. sometimes people have to make a stand but usually thier moral justification is sketchy.
Hello Dr. Todd Grande, I do agree with most of your points on social vigilantes. They do hamper with Police investigations and most cases against most predators get tossed in the courts because of their interference. However, as a businessman and on the social side of this issue, it brings to light who most people really are and it eventually falls onto people like myself if we want to hire them or even do business with them after knowing what they tried to do. In my opinion, this whole topic about predators & vigilantes is an ugly one as I never have encountered a predator when I conduct business, but as any normal person I absolutely despise predators and who they are.
Hi Rejane - Children must be protected. But the psychology of these predators is so very sad! They seem to be very resistant to any treatment and re-offend! They can't be allowed to endanger kids but how to stop them in time is so problematic! We need better resources but I don't know what they are?🤔😓
@@bthomsonWe definitely need more resources to protect our children. However, I do think that mental health treatment is the cure to so many ailments in society. If we had more easily available resources such as mental health counseling and psychiatric consults, maybe we would have more stability in the overall population and less crime.
@@adulthumanfemale8666 the problem with hunters is they can completely ruin a case against a potential predator if they step out of the bounds of the law.
I disagree with the sentiment that self-appointed vigilantes don’t understand the risks or dubiousness of their behavior. They do comprehend these things, but view their own actions as “justifiable enough” considering those that they go after. Knowing this about them goes a long way in understanding the vigilante mindset, which is comparable to a destructive activist that feels justified by reason of their cause.
Making the internet less comfortable for predators to lure children is a benefit. It's necessary to expose these monsters. I'm subscribed to a few poachers. I will agree that it's dangerous. There are so many deviants out there, I commend these groups for doing their part to protect children.
I don't think most of these Vigilantes really care about predators being put behind bars. Most of the time, they just shove a camera in people's faces without their consent (which is not admissible in court) and threaten to call the cops if they don't speak/confess to them. Some of the time they never actually call the cops because the predator confesses to them for the spectacle on their RUclips channel. All they care about is the confrontation and the power trip of holding a camera in someone's face while they yell at them and have all their viewers laugh along.
We ruin the predators' lives so badly that it often doesn't matter if they go to prison or not. After we perform these stings, their friends/family often abandons them, their wives leave them, they get fired from their jobs, etc. So it often doesn't even matter if they go to jail or not. One of my guys is also getting charged by the state.
Just a correction, you don’t need someones consent to record them, and that wouldn’t make it inadmissible in court. You may be confusing the state by state idea of one party/ two party consent, but that only applies to recording a conversation over the phone, not walking up in public and recording an interaction
@@troyevitt2437 The only difference here is that some people doing those first amendment audit videos have caught aggressive and corrupt police officers. Those auditors only exist because police can abuse their power and trust, and society inherently takes their word
Having watched several of these social media vigilante videos, it always seems their primary motivation is gaining notoriety and financial support, not the protection of children.
@Sky L They're innocent until proven guilty. If a vigilante is willing to risk their life for a child, that's admirable, regardless of the potential financial gain. Nothing good comes without potential risk.
@@MiguelDLewis absolutely however in a lot of cases like this they have evidence in advance and then perverts showing up after making plans to have sex with children so there's really not much that needs to be done except a bullet
The system The courts The judges The DAs If they would do their jobs...they would not have this problem. They deserve what they get. Vigilantes will do the job if they won't met out justice, TRUE justice.
To Catch A Predator has a dirty secret; NBC doesn't want you to know that after the T.C.A.P. arrests, judges and DAs dropped a significant amount of the charges. That fact was brought to light by a competing network, ABC. ABC dug in and found out that DAs and judges had problems with the way evidence was collected by non-police entities-NBC Television and Perverted Justice. The police played too small a role, compromising chain-of-custody, and were often just the muscle that tackled the sickos as they left the decoy houses. When evidence is gathered by a TV network motivated by ratings and ad revenue, it gives defense attorneys ammo to prove the network was biased in favor of landing the arrest footage.
@@MiguelDLewis I didn't remember he was an assistant DA. OOF! So does that mean that they are seriously still making new ones? I thought Hansen said they were done when I saw him on YHM, fairly recently.
I've always thought that it's a big ego trip for the vigilantes. They think they're something because they do this when it's actually quite foolish behavior. I wasn't impressed with Hanson's show either because all that was going on there was monetizing foolishness. Great video as always, Dr Grande.
It's ok if it's a ego trip that doesn't hurt anyone and saves the lives of innocent children. Would you rather the vigilantes not take the risk and let child offenders run free? As an aspiring father myself, I'd prefer decoys and vigilantes doing what they do, regardless of their ego trip if it helps put creeps behind bars.
It depends on their actions. I went on two coupes in my late teens. Nothing recorded. Just confrontation and fights. But it turns out to be hearsay because the guy was messing with a group member’s ex. But regarding vigilantes there’s more than just pedo vigilantes. There’s all sorts like ones that seek out drug dealers and ones with many free time who seek out commentators. If you look up Myron may, he had dealt with the commentator one.
I agree, it’s an ego trip, and a self-righteous one. I don’t side with the targets of these vigilantes, but Dr. G is right - the second these guys pick on a target their own size, or one that is truly unhinged, it’s gonna end badly for everyone involved. While I’ll admit these guys provide a certain level of schadenfreude-style entertainment, they ultimately accomplish nothing.
The TV series To Catch A Predator was unforgettable. In my Addictions class in college, an internet cop (I think that was what he refered himself as) entrapped people in almost an identical manner (only they would be arrested when arriving at the meeting spot). I had no idea that these vigilante groups even existed, it is almost like they are creating an easy opportunity for the crime that wouldn't exist without their efforts. These people must not have thought through the whole group thing, they could easily be killed if they met up with an aggressive person.
Hi Dr. Grande 👋🏼 Still lovin your videos content and your consistency. So rare these days. Thanks for all the uploads. I love getting these notifications you have a new video out....makes my day....sometimes twice a day. 😀
1:04 That's generous to the show. What happened was 1 of the people they were attempting to lure got cold feet, so not wanting to lose part of his precious episode, Chris Hanson went to that guy's house and started confronting and filming him, and the guy shot himself on the spot.
His deadpan delivery of jokes is one of my favorite parts of his videos. I think one of the first videos I saw of his was about a dad that killed his kids (or something like that,) and Dr. Grande ended up saying something like "thereby temporarily suspending his campaign for father of the year to do this..." I subscribed immediately.
Have you watched this podcast on RUclips (or listened elsewhere?) They have several different Playlists (so you get an understanding if the podcast will be discussing a serial killer, or some kind of wild conspiracy, and so on. I believe on of those playlists is named "the killing part" (and obviously it's the playlist of the podcasts on high profile killers). Just thought it was a clever name and I noticed it immediately.
I can. Nobody, not a single set of individuals on the planet wants child predators around (except child predators), doesn't matter who you are. But being a vigilante is not the solution, at least not untrained and unsupervised. If there was a program, assistance for mentally questionable people to avoid becoming a predator, good reporting for families and a less aggressive and targeted police force or an independent task force, this would be a lot less of an issue. Sadly no matter what, most child assault happens from family members meaning the biggest thing we can do is teach people how to raise kids and report things when we see any hints.
I have observed these so-called "creep catchers" and I feel they are motivated by some prurient need to exact vengeance or "justice" on someone who is not worthy of sympathy. Furthermore, they seem to try to present themselves as "winners" in the fight against child exploitation and I think that's pretty messed up. There really are no winners here.
The creep catchers are doing more to protect children and bring forth justice than the federal government, but then again you got to think the federal government is infested with pxdophiles who are just trying to look out for their own kind. Look at uncle Joe and his rxpe showers and comments about him being 30 and "her" being 14. Imagine living in the timeline where we elected a pxdophile.
the winners are the preds. these idiots mess up and current or future investigation. now the pred nearly has to be found with a live boy or ded girl. to get anything to stick.
Have a word with yourself and stop feeling sorry for predators! Of course they feel a sense of winning, these stings are hard work and horrible but what keeps them going is the hope they will catch the man who is trying to abuse children. They deserve a medal. There is a few prominent groups in the U.K. who have had excellent success and have been on TV etc. As long as they are organised and do not break any laws or harm the abuser and let the law deal with them. No sympathy for them. This isn’t a “both sides” thing.
Thank you. A few years ago I saw RUclips videos of these Chris Hansen copycats and at first I thought it was cool that they were helping out taking down these predators, until I realized that by the end of the video, the perpetrators never get arrested. I believe that some of these people think they’re really doing the right thing and feel frustrated when it seems like police aren’t doing anything, but in reality they’re often derailing ongoing investigations or ruining their chances in court for a successful conviction.
Which ones were you watching? There are plenty of channels wherein the people are almost always arrested and convicted.. Try Colorado Ped Patrol or PP Southeast Texas
@@Sloimer maybe so, I was just talking about the ones that I watched though. And even when arrested, that doesn’t mean convicted, and you know that their lawyer is gonna try their damn hardest to claim that the evidence should be thrown out because of things like entrapment and unethical/messy investigations, and often times they would be right.
REQUEST: Hi Dr. Grande! I do not know if you listen to Swindled podcast (my favorite), but there is an extensive episode about Budd Dwyer and his suicide during his resignation speech on live television. Could you please cover this case and make a case for his guilt/innocence in regard to the charges brought against him? I just watched your video about Christine Chubbuck and it reminded me of Budd Dwyer's live suicide (a very disturbing and incredibly sad case as well).
Ok another comment. I also catch predators and had the honor of working with who you called a vigilante. Eric and PCI conducted themselves professionally and for the purpose of exposing child predators with in our constitutional rights. None of this is wrong and to be discouraged nor would it matter if it was. Also prosecutors taking cases is the problem? No it's the solution. When you expose an online predator and commit to not enforcing the law degrades the principle of law and order that holds a society together. Eric is an honorable person who is devoting his life for the betterment of others with little to no return on value.
I have a friend who's father had this vigilante predator hobby or whatever it should be called. It was eye opening to say the least. The things he would have his daughter do, the things he did to her, and the things he encouraged were everything he pretended to be hunting. I met her while I was shopping and I bumped into a friend from highschool a year after graduation. He introduced his girlfriend and I invited them to come hang and smoke some weed. They seemed normal enough, although the dude was never part of the normal crowd, and the invited my gf and myself to come over and swim and smoke with them in a nearby town. The girl said her roommates were annoying and would try to latch onto us so we should avoid them. When we got there, we didn't go inside, they didn't have a pool, and the house seemed to be decrepit. We smoked a blunt and the male roommate came out and he seemed to be alright, maybe a couple years older than I was, and he sold weed, cool. She says we can go swimming in the neighbors pool, he had an arrangement where she was allowed to if she was skinny-dipping and the same went for her friends. Fair enough I thought, creepy, but who cares about some old dude looking at me if he doesn't try to "insert" himself in the situation. So I talk to the roommate guy introduce myself and he does the same. I ask how long he had been her roommate, he said "fifteen years, I'm [her] father" I said GTFO, he said seriously he was he was like 35 or something and she was 15. I started to think this guy was a weirdo and no wonder she didn't want to hang with the roomies, but I also thought it was fcked up if this was all true. My buddy was 19, she was 15, they lived with her parents and her dad sold them weed? Nah. My gf and I found an excuse to leave shortly after this and the next time buddy and his girl came over she confirmed it. My girl and I kinda took them under our wings and tried to straighten them out but it was all crazy and way past anything we could help with. I remained friends with them since then, and we had always treated her with a parental-ish attitude, like if you need help or are in a bad spot, call and we will come rescue. When she was in her early twenties, she told me about the "stings" her father would be part of. She never explicitly said her photos were past the point on legality, but holy f the things he would have her engage in were. He pierced her (not ears, not face, but above the navel) at like 13, he ran a photography business, but would have her model for this vigilante group and use her to engage in chat and all the things you would want a consenting adult for. She ended up being everything you pray your daughter never becomes, he still runs his photography business. He put a restraining order on her and infrequently enforces it, and had her imprisoned at one point when she mentioned that the dogs were biting her and the fleas were out of control and the squaller was overwhelming. My point is that these vigilante groups, I think they are overcompensating. From meeting this guy and the stuff he did, I think he uses it as a front to justify his actions and involvement in the same community he pretended to condemn.
Holy shit. This was an intense story to read. That is terrifying. But you do make a good point. Assuming you've seen any To Catch a Predator episodes, what you're describing (like, how some of these vigilante people may be just as bad at the predators they try to catch) feels similar to how I always felt about Chris Hansen. I saw quite a few episodes of the show when it was on tv, and when reading the transcripts (of the "minor" and the grown adult chatting previously, he always just seemed giddy and/or way too into reading such a disgusting conversation. His expressions and the tone of his voice while reading those made me feel so uncomfortable.
@@Throatzillaaa no, I never really watched them. But I do know that people are prone to taking up causes for the the concepts they are guilty of. Even if they never act on an urge or commit the crimes they speak out against, they recognize the worst inside themselves and they fight against it. Jung talks about integration of the shadow, and how traits in your shadow make you recognize those traits in others, then you project an amplified persona on those people and detest them. Also, unrecognized and denied traits will lead to outbursts if uncontrolled and if you recognize the traits you hide and deal with them, then you are able to control them.
They literally canceled to catch a predator because a piece of crap sick pervert killed themselves? Honestly that's disgusting the vast majority of people I know think that's the best route.
The thing that got me with people doing these things is what if a gun was brought? As noble as the trend is it’s truly a dangerous thing to do. There’s plenty of people who wouldn’t think twice to pull a trigger. It’s scary.
I hate to admit I am in two minds about this. The police are overwhelmed with work and innocent girls are being victimized. But then to be fair I had a colleague who was set-up by the police and they successfully tried and imprisoned the bastard. I was abused by older men and I was a tubby little dumpling... If only there was a program in schools to educate. I hope and trust things have changed. In the meantime, if done properly I am all for exposing these deviants for the exploitation and the shere gall of their wickedness. I just don't encourage a group of good Ole boys trying to entrap a weasel.
I support most of the child predator catchers. They deserve to be exposed and humiliated. The police do very little to bring these predators to justice. There are so many creeps out there who are abusing our precious children. Even infants are victims. My wish is for them to serve time in general population. Always appreciate your analysis Dr. Grande.
I know I’m thinking with my emotions more than I’m being logical, because I hear what you’re saying, but as a dad to a 4 year old, I wish we had these vigilantes in every city in America. Just because predator kills himself here and there, or just because a few people go crazy sometimes, I have nooooo issues with these people protecting our kids. More often than not, these hero’s put people behind bars or at least make the community aware of them. Here’s a crazy thought…..if people stop fucking with our children, predator catchers will have to go back to their day jobs. I don’t get this video, Dr. Grande. Jason was guilty. Maybe instead of scolding the vigilantes, scold the slow ass police departments who aren’t doing anything. You mention the vigilantes interrupting the cops…..maybe the cops should actually do something. I do agree with you on the candor of the vigilantes. I definitely don’t condone the violent rhetoric. Simply catch them and send them to jail. If anyone comments, I’m willing to listen to reason. My thoughts aren’t written in stone.
They have huge egos. Justice system already is unfair at times, no need to add a bunch of untrained yahoos trying to catch people. Great points always. Thanks Dr G😊💞💞
I’ve never seen a group with huge egos and I follow a lot of these channels. You could argue the police would also be untrained yahoos as they would most likely be thrown on a 1 week course as “training”. These catchers focus solely on predator hunting, see it as a specialty which they get better and better at the more they do because that’s all they do. Police have a much broader scope on what they cover and are busy enough as it is on a day to day basis. So you could actually argue - “a jack of all trades is a master of none”
@@montana6489 As Dr G said they make many mistakes. Good intent doesn't always mean great outcomes. They have no law degrees and could wrongly set someone up/cause them to go to jail.. They are mostly yahoos. Bringing cops issues into this is off subject and deflecting.
When I clicked on this video, I never could have imagined the outcome of Yoko Ono needing to be rushed to the burn unit. That burn came out of nowhere!
Well said! Vigilantism can be appealing on an emotional level, but is a disaster-waiting-to-happen in reality. Best to leave it on the movie screens and in the comics.
9:02 yup, hindering an investigation, it is a huge possibility us pr3d catchers could potentially be talking to same person LE is talking to & if a “vigilante”(as YOU call them) intercepts, it will mess up the investigation. I use to catch these men until I had a big meeting with an ADA and a chief of police in my county saying they don’t want me doing it anymore. Their main concern was safety & hindering an investigation. In the short time I decoyed/caught them myself, I exposed 10
My problem with some of these people that do these "to catch a predator" style videos is their intentions. I've seen a lot of these people (one channel in particular) that are straight up bullies. I'm not sympathizing with the people they catch, grown men trying to meet kids, but you can clearly see that some of these youtubers don't care about kids. They just found a loophole so that they can bully people, and that's ok, because those people are worse. I've seen videos of them making fun of a guy who tried to meet a boy. But not because of that, because he was gay and he talked gay. Or videos where the guy happened to be mexican, and they kept saying "go back to your country". Non of those things had anything to do with them trying to meet 13 year olds. It's like kicking a rabid dog. Some people just like kicking dogs.
I'm surprised you didn't mention that the individual who ended his life in the incident which led to the cancellation of To Catch a Predator was a district attorney. He had been caught attempting to lure what he believed was a 13-year-old boy.
😵
Good riddance
"A self...[UUP-ointet] and self...[PROOO-claimed]...district attorney who frequently elected to make use of the.........[VAH-mit] emoji.🤮"
probably why it ended tcap. cant have them catching important people!
It was the district attorney's sister who filed a lawsuit and won, what caused the show to be cancelled.
Your dry humor catches me off guard at times, but it is absolutely hilarious. It definitely brings levity to the subject matter. Thank you.
As an Englishman, this humour is just normal speech 😊
Me too! 😂
@@RaferJeffersonIII British humour is best humour!!!!!!!!!!
I'm pretty sure his jokes are his way of letting people know not to take his vids too seriously and to protect himself from lawsuits.
Hunting teams have got 963 predators arrested in 245 days here in the UK. No violence and with solid evidence to get them convicted.
Awesome 👍
No violence…impressive
Solid evidence and convictions fantastic!
Keep up your great methods
Way to go, gotta catch em all! Go get em hunters... never stop hunting!
I have a lot of respect for the vast majority of UK teams. They do a huge amount of good, despite the ridiculously lenient response of the law, even upon conviction.
Unless they are Muslim….then they just go free right? In the uk?
You mentioned that the person caught ended their life. You didn’t mention that they were an assistant district attorney and that the show was forced to be shut down by other law enforcement trying to protect the monsters in their ranks.
The police do not dictate what programming NBC airs.
No. The district attorney's sister filed a lawsuit against NBC and local law enforcement, and won, therefore cancelling the show.
THANK YOU
This dude is controlled opposition, or just suffers from severe cognitive dissonance. Maybe even both.
Yes, vigilantism is almost always ill-advised. However, it's also important to see it as an expression of people's frustration with the ineffectiveness of our justice system -- where it seems like perpetrators are getting off scot-free a lot of the time. Maybe it's time to start retooling our justice system so that people can trust it to function properly. When that happens, there won't be much motivation for vigilantism in the first place.
The vigilantes don't care about justice. That's why they practice on what to say and what not to say to avoid getting punished on their own wrong doings.
These people aren’t vigilantes, they don’t punish these people, they expose them. They’re essentially a private investigators. If they were vigilantes, we probably wouldn’t be seeing their videos on RUclips
Well, the point your making would again depend on a person's perspective and their own personal biases. You say that "vigilantism is an example of people's frustration with the ineffectiveness of our justice systemc", however, others might say that our justice system already engages in over-reach with overly powerful prosecutors and a society that relies too heavily on incarceration.
Agreed 👍
Your completely right, and there's so many pedo apologists an criminal forgiving weirdos now I totally expected responses like the ones above...
Thank God someone is doing something, these guys are heroes 👍
One thing that stood out to me during the Hanson “to catch a predator “ many of the suspects knew about the show and even thought about it and how the person they were talking to online could be a sting operation. Despite this their interests in hooking up with someone under Age outweighed the known risks involved.
And Later HANSEN GOT CAUGHT TOO; he was a grifter and cheater. It Used to be in some societies you could be put to death for THAT. He was so creepy like he was some high Lord sitting above everyone licking his chops.
@Predator Catchers PA ShAFiQ
*most* of the people committing SA crimes know that they are doing so……they just don’t care who gets hurt in the process.
@@TCoyTheDecoy As opposed to OTHER criminals....who care so much? Are you kidding?
@@robertgiles9124 no but it is possible to be unaware of laws that exist. But everyone knows touching is illegal & wrong. Yeah some people do care like the ones that kill their abuser. They care about stopping them. And technically they are a criminal but also a low key hero… IMO… since u asked.
Noone feels "sympathy" for a child predator, no matter how much they are insulted by vigilantes.
seems like they did a great job. I'm amazed they gave him 6 years. that's good. and i don't think I could ever feel sympathy for these people
And you shouldn't
“If a police officer collected it using the same tactics.” Regarding evidence….
OKAY WHERE ARE THEY???
@@GilaMonster971 hiiiiii! 👋
Very glad to get back to your episodes. I've been deeply distracted by hurricane Ian. My prayers to all who have suffered loss. We were spared, but my heart is with those who were not.
🤦♂️ He got so much wrong in this video I can't even...
So true Ryan! He couldn't even get the predator's name right. This former officer chose to go to a jury trial and was CONVICTED. If he had actually researched the topic and PCI, his opinion on predator catchers might change. Someone has to protect the children!
As police departments and District Attorneys practice their social experiment on their population by not prosecuting or letting criminals out, vigilantes will only increase.
VIGILANTE(pronounced: vig•i•lan•te) - noun: a member of a self-appointed group of citizens who undertake law enforcement in their community without legal authority, typically because the legal agencies are thought to be inadequate.
Sounds like we need more vigilantes.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Doesn't help that some of these vigilantes think they are Judge Jury and Executioner.
No. It doesn’t help the predator.
@@2legit2Kwit wtf is your profile 😂😂
They call the cops and turn over evidence actuallu
Cancel culture
The funniest vigilante catches was when known scam artist Ramy went to Egypt and did a couple of catches where he came close to getting murdered. I look at these creep catchers as pure candid camera inspired entertainment and I really enjoy watching the catches while also realizing money is the main motivational factor for these vigilantes who will constantly talk about where one could donate to them. I also do enjoy watching someone like Alex's precise interrogation techniques where he befriends the predator and masterfully gets them to admit everything in front of thousands of live viewers.
alex is massive sociopath!!!
alex is the best by far but he's also a shit person and i'm convinced he only does it to have fun destroying peoples lives in a legal way. i dont think he really cares about catching preds.
I disagree that money is the "main" motivation. Many of these guys were childhood victims or have family members who were. Most of them started this part time to seek justice, but found that there are so many creeps that they started doing it full time, necessitating income to keep going
Where we can find those shows to donate to them? I dont care if they do it for money, if they can help the good people is totally fine anyways is a job and it deserves to be paid
@@ArkaraValtare3729 predator catchers muncie, lc predator catcher, people v preds, gordon flowers, pp toronto, protect the innocent...those are a start.
If authorities fail to enforce the law, it will be enforced by the people. This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. It's human nature.
I was peripherally associated with two online groups that found predictors in the 90's, which was the wild, wild west of the internet. Child pornography was posted in profiles on yahoo chat. Un neither group did the members try to apprehend the subjects. They forwarded the chat logs to an appropriate law enforcement agency. Sometimes, the member was asked to continue to a meeting with the suspect. At that point, the police were supervising. I cannot recall any religious member in both groups. Times have changed apparently.
The good doctor hates Trump and Religion. He has bad TDS. He is too smart for that. At least he thinks so.
Were you in America? The kookiest religious folk ruin all sorts of things in America.
@@forallthestupidshit3550 Seems America has gone 100% woke. I don't mix religion or politics with the need to persecute or expose child predators like Hunter and his Dad.
“They” have changed? What does that mean? As if “religious” people are a single bloc huh. Wow just wow
non of these catchers are doing it for religious morality reasons
I honestly wish these types of groups were somehow able to get licensed after receiving proper training in order to work alongside law-enforcement, but the few I’ve observed on YT seem more about getting views, potential sponsorships, and monetizing content.
@@neighbor472 they are in the most minuscule minority then. As the original comment pointed out, many are not trained, do not conduct proper investigations, do not understand entrapment, and end up making sure nothing can be done in court against these predators.
Law enforcement isn't even well-trained enough to be trusted to apprehend people -- why should we trust any other rando violent people who are on a crusade to be any better?
Many of them do work alongside lae enforcement. They have a big book of evidence that they give to the reasoning officers. From there it is up to the officers to decide if they want to just let the pxdophiles roam or do something about it. Typically they just let them roam. Really sad we as a country don't just lxnch these people.
@@forallthestupidshit3550 Yet they still do more to protect children and bring forth justice than the federal government which is content to sit back and let children be abused so long as they have their power and mountains of our stolen tax money to play God with.
Proper training? These people need a shrink more often then not, you wouldn't want them working with law enforcement (who could often use shrinks themselves).
I enjoyed the Yoko Ono comment, very funny. Your analyses of your subjects are interesting, interspersed with humour. Thank you for the uploads Dr Grande.
Burning that midnight oil again! Loving on us insomnia folks! Always a treat Dr. Grande!
Ha!
Two thoughts: 1) I have watched plenty of 'predator catcher' type groups in both the US and the UK, but I have never discerned any religious motivations in any of them- ever.
2) Trained cops blundering and lying is mostly caused by years of cultural on-the-job sloppiness, mixed with a desire to protect their jobs & pensions. Predator catchers don't have those motivations.
Good comment
@@AlphanumericCharacters You kidding, right?
Predator catchers have clout, money, bias, and poor judgment to have them make similar mistakes. Nobody likes peds but the fact is what these people do 9/10 isn't helpful and could become dangerous. I've also seen a few "bloopers" of different channels accusing the wrong person. The loud public shaming battle cry isn't as helpful as they think it is. We all know how TCAP ended and I feel there's very little reason for one of these people to point the gun at others before themselves. I'm not defending predators but I don't think investigations should be handled by random folk with no authority or training
@Waterboarding Tommy Fellows With Molasses how effectively has it protected kids? It let's a bunch of people on the internet know that someone might be a potential predator. I'm positive people in real life aren't gonna take the person holding a phone to someone's face yelling "he's here to meet a 13yo boy" as seriously as you think.
@Waterboarding Tommy Fellows With Molasses Glad to see wit and logic are on your side, when a conversation hits a dead end it's always nice to accuse the other side of a heinous act instead of thinking about the real world applications of vigilantism. You'll never be the punisher, the closest you'll get to is William Foster. You can't see past punishing bad people when you're meant to be protecting innocent kids. Eb homeless or jobless is a punishment but I don't think it really stops them from offending, even TCAP had repeat offenders
I also LOVE hearing any jokes by Dr. Grande, Honestly these quips crack me up sometimes 🤣
"mostly because of the murder part..."
One should always make jokes when discussing vile men that fuk kids. Laugh cry emoji....sooo funny!
Who else was watching Anxiety War doing this long before the boom in the market?
I write from Ireland and I really enjoy your videos. Your analysis of this phenomenon is absolutely correct. I myself was accused of a crime in my youth and the Police officers involved lied through their teeth throughout the process. It was only after my Lawyer was able to discredit their version of events, using CCTV footage from the alleged crime scene, that the charges against me were dropped. The whole experience taught me that the so called, good guys, are more than capable of criminal behavior in pursuit of a conviction. If the men in uniform are so untrustworthy, how can religious zealots be allowed to operate with impunity?
Pedophile catchers cannot "operate with impunity", the law obviously applies to them too, I don't know where you got that from. Your story is irrelevant to the morality and acceptability of people tricking and calling the police on pedophiles who believe they are meeting children.
@@maitiucibhleachain5139 I was merely pointing out that the Police often get tunnel vision when it comes to getting a conviction. The vigilantes are also often people who employ tunnel vision, usually because of warped religious beliefs, as pointed out in the video.
@@robg5958 I have watched tons of videos of pedophiles being caught attempting to meet children, many are quite long as they wait for police to arrive. The majority I've seen have been from the UK, but a good few from America too. Not one comment made in any of those hours of footage I've was about religion in any way. I have never seen pedophile catcher I thought was doing what they were doing because of their religion. "usually" - gonna need a source for that. This seems to be a ridiculous stereotype, and even if people were inspired by their faith to catch those attempting to meet and r*pe children, what's the problem in that being an inspiration for such a public service?
I was really interested in hearing your analysis on this subject. Ask and you shall receive, haha. The speed in which you make these detailed and insightful videos is incredible, Dr. Grande. Thank you for another in depth analysis. I appreciate your hard work. 🙏
This! I literally just left a comment that echos very similar sentiments. How Dr. G manages to put out so many of these blows my mind. I’m assuming he has some sort of private practice/clinical job , a family and life, he may even teach classes too- a lot of psychiatrists/mental health professionals also teach college courses here and there too…and he still manages to release well researched high quality videos more often than I change my damn socks. 😂😭
Ah! Another analysis (I like it!)
The speed in which these videos are produced could also signify a gap in research. Grande is making sweeping claims about an entire group of people based on the actions and persona of one pred catcher. I think the Dr could have watched a few more predator catchers.
@@Breakstop It definitely would’ve been interesting had he covered other predator investigations for sure. I at first thought there would be a bit more on him talking about to catch a predator the show because that’s what I originally requested. But still, I’ll take what I can get I guess.
@@Breakstop agreed. He seems like he's probably a really smart guy in other contexts, but you can't just read a few articles and think you have your finger on the pulse of what you just read.
A man in my former neighborhood had too much to drink and put his hand up the dress of his 15 year old daughters friend. Not far up, just above her knee. He served a year in jail, is on the Megan's Law website and has had his house burned down, has been beaten up several times and in the hospital many weeks because of self apoinyed vigilantes. He has never reoffended. He is very disabled now because of this and lives in a tent on the river bed. Hos assailants have never faced justice. Eric needs to be stopped.
I’m sorry but if one of my friends fathers had put his hands up my skirt when I was 15, I don’t care if he was drunk or not, that would’ve traumatized me or any other young teenager who trusts that the parents of their friends won’t see them like that. Not saying I agree with burning the man’s house down, but you don’t get to stick your hands up your teen daughters friends skirt, and not face consequences.
Jesus said, "whoever offends these little ones, it is better that a large stone was tied around his neck and he were cast into the sea." Alcoholics don't get a pass.
@@jessica_jam4386 Don't be sorry Jessica. You are completely right to say exactly what you said and the perfect person to say it.
“Not far up,just above the knee”. 😮
The Justice system tried and convicted and punished him. What people took upon themselves to do to him was wrong.
I am glad that 15 year old he assaulted was not silenced and forced to live with what was done to her without any justice.
Thanks for the good news!
Love your analogy about Yoko and Miley. But remember that old proverb, "In the land of the Blind the one-eyed man is King".
LOL
Entrapment is when law enforcement creates a situation wherein a person commits a crime that they would not have committed on their own. I don’t know if it applies to vigilantes. But that seems likely to be what happened with the guy who ended up in prison.
Chatlogs are physically extracted off of devices….
I dont think exposing pedophiles is a bad thing. Expose them, even if they don't get arrested their life gets ruined.
Yeah but we want to get rid of them, that includes carriers to get rid of them properly. If there’s no evidence for them to get arrested, that could be misinformation or slander. I mean if you wake up the next day and everyone calls you a pedo, how would you feel? A lot of anger and scorn.
Not at All
Hell yeah! Now I can stay up even later tonight. Thank you sir.
When I was in high school girls always bragging about their 20 something year old boyfriends
High schoolers are fools. They have no idea how the world works or what's good for them. I was a fool in hs and every girl I knew was a fool too.
My boyfriend was 38 and I was 16. Now my bf is 36 and I am 56!
I was sadly one of those girls. Groomers do a lot of love bombing & have the upper hand due to high-schoolers being so pure & naive.
With some groups their hearts are in the right place but others do it for a weird power trip , internet clout and RUclips money.
@Waterboarding Tommy Fellows With Molasses you’re missing the point they say they’re all about saving kids
Tbh as long as they catch the guys, I don't care if they're motivated by selfish reasons.
You made the dude catching predators sound like a jerk. You made the predator seem like a victim. That's talent! Great job! 👍
Soul sucking talent lol
Seriously, I'm surprised this video made the cut.
Thanks for bringing this up. its a huge area of very sick people preying on innocent kids. But, what solution is there to prevent and police this??? I cant think of another better than this.
Reminds me of the Internet Sleuths involved in the Elisa Lam case and how they ruined the metal musician's life, I think such organisations need more legal training and definitely need to establish an ethical behaviour through which they interact with targets. There are several OSINT Organisations who work on unsolved cases, and they always submit their findings to law-enforcement.
Police wait until crimes happen to do anything. At least these guys are trying to stop kids from being abused before it happens.
I think you were a bit harsh on the vigilantes. They are trying to prevent children having sex with grown men. That’s a worthwhile cause.
Chris Hansen literally caught another cop the same day this was posted.
These "vigilantes" are focusing on a much needed area & saving a lot lof people from being hurt. Who cares if a child predator is threatened or embarrassed?
That comparison between Miley Cyrus and Yoko Ono was spot on! 😂
Some of these groups have legit stopped some child abductions and caught registered sex offenders. The problem is (this is common among vigilante groups who take on these) they begin overstepping their grounds..To keep things exciting for their viewers (a lot of them is about views and subscribes) they get more edgy. I've seen one channel as their popularity grew they started getting more aggressive & confrontational on their "catches." In other words, they get more cocky and "comfortable" the more they do it. I think that's a problem.
Heavy sack beatings are up a whopping 900%
Eventually one of them is going to get killed. Chris Hansen and his qualified security personnel (and present law enforcement) knew how to handle potential dangerous situations. These wannabe vigilante guys however tend to deliberately be provocative.
Batman comes to mind as fictional character vigilantes. a moral compass is often compromised when it comes to these real life types of vigilantes. sometimes people have to make a stand but usually thier moral justification is sketchy.
Everyone in this comments section is misusing the word “vigilante”
"get a confession on camera to show the cops" seems like pretty easy moral justification
Hello Dr. Todd Grande, I do agree with most of your points on social vigilantes. They do hamper with Police investigations and most cases against most predators get tossed in the courts because of their interference. However, as a businessman and on the social side of this issue, it brings to light who most people really are and it eventually falls onto people like myself if we want to hire them or even do business with them after knowing what they tried to do. In my opinion, this whole topic about predators & vigilantes is an ugly one as I never have encountered a predator when I conduct business, but as any normal person I absolutely despise predators and who they are.
I think it’s a dangerous game when people take justice into their own hands.
Brilliant review, you made some excellent points. Thank you, Dr. Grande!❤
Those groups are about exposure. There's not handing out justice.
Hi Rejane - Children must be protected. But the psychology of these predators is so very sad! They seem to be very resistant to any treatment and re-offend! They can't be allowed to endanger kids but how to stop them in time is so problematic! We need better resources but I don't know what they are?🤔😓
@@bthomsonWe definitely need more resources to protect our children. However, I do think that mental health treatment is the cure to so many ailments in society. If we had more easily available resources such as mental health counseling and psychiatric consults, maybe we would have more stability in the overall population and less crime.
I'm so glad you covered this topic, as it's something that has become more and more prevalent online.
@Waterboarding Tommy Fellows With Molasses ruff ruff!
It worries me that YOU are worried that pdf catchers are becoming MORE prevalent. That is really, really worrying.
Sussy comment. Stay away from kids please
@@adulthumanfemale8666 maybe she is worried that crimes of this nature online is what is increasing?
@@adulthumanfemale8666 the problem with hunters is they can completely ruin a case against a potential predator if they step out of the bounds of the law.
The issue is he isn't talking to a minor and they're using a picture of an adult woman. It's entrapment.
Please educate yourself on the definition of entrapment.
I disagree with the sentiment that self-appointed vigilantes don’t understand the risks or dubiousness of their behavior. They do comprehend these things, but view their own actions as “justifiable enough” considering those that they go after. Knowing this about them goes a long way in understanding the vigilante mindset, which is comparable to a destructive activist that feels justified by reason of their cause.
Another great video Dr. Grande .Love from Ireland.
Making the internet less comfortable for predators to lure children is a benefit. It's necessary to expose these monsters. I'm subscribed to a few poachers. I will agree that it's dangerous. There are so many deviants out there, I commend these groups for doing their part to protect children.
Amen!
Dr. G. On topics of law and order, philosophy, civil rights, etc, you always make great, reasonable points.
Two words: role playing chat room, dude.
That's literally 5 words though...
Roleplaying* Chatroom*
You look like law enforcement, and I know law enforcement. Lol
@@kristenjustkristen9462 Hey, I don't wanna be on TV dawg. 😁
Love to hear your calm and logical takes on these crazy situations!!
And witty!
I don't think most of these Vigilantes really care about predators being put behind bars. Most of the time, they just shove a camera in people's faces without their consent (which is not admissible in court) and threaten to call the cops if they don't speak/confess to them. Some of the time they never actually call the cops because the predator confesses to them for the spectacle on their RUclips channel. All they care about is the confrontation and the power trip of holding a camera in someone's face while they yell at them and have all their viewers laugh along.
They're the same sort of disingenuous clout-chasers you get with "First Amendment audit" videos.
We ruin the predators' lives so badly that it often doesn't matter if they go to prison or not. After we perform these stings, their friends/family often abandons them, their wives leave them, they get fired from their jobs, etc. So it often doesn't even matter if they go to jail or not. One of my guys is also getting charged by the state.
Just a correction, you don’t need someones consent to record them, and that wouldn’t make it inadmissible in court. You may be confusing the state by state idea of one party/ two party consent, but that only applies to recording a conversation over the phone, not walking up in public and recording an interaction
@@Tortilla.Reform yep, it's 100% legal to record anywhere in public in the United States.
@@troyevitt2437 The only difference here is that some people doing those first amendment audit videos have caught aggressive and corrupt police officers.
Those auditors only exist because police can abuse their power and trust, and society inherently takes their word
😟 seems like we are trying to get sympathy for abusers.
Thank you Dr Grande, your speculation and opinion is highly regarded and greatly appreciated.
Having watched several of these social media vigilante videos, it always seems their primary motivation is gaining notoriety and financial support, not the protection of children.
Chris Hanson was one guy who came unstuck with his program "take a seat".
Maybe that's ok as long as creeps are arrested and no actual children are involved. Profit and passion aren't mutually exclusive.
@Sky L They're innocent until proven guilty. If a vigilante is willing to risk their life for a child, that's admirable, regardless of the potential financial gain. Nothing good comes without potential risk.
As long as they catch perverts who really cares
@@MiguelDLewis absolutely however in a lot of cases like this they have evidence in advance and then perverts showing up after making plans to have sex with children so there's really not much that needs to be done except a bullet
Someone has to do it. If any child is saved from their perpetrators I don't care.
The system
The courts
The judges
The DAs
If they would do their jobs...they would not have this problem. They deserve what they get. Vigilantes will do the job if they won't met out justice, TRUE justice.
It would be great if they would bring back that show. To Catch a Predator is an oldie, but goodie.
To Catch A Predator has a dirty secret; NBC doesn't want you to know that after the T.C.A.P. arrests, judges and DAs dropped a significant amount of the charges. That fact was brought to light by a competing network, ABC. ABC dug in and found out that DAs and judges had problems with the way evidence was collected by non-police entities-NBC Television and Perverted Justice.
The police played too small a role, compromising chain-of-custody, and were often just the muscle that tackled the sickos as they left the decoy houses. When evidence is gathered by a TV network motivated by ratings and ad revenue, it gives defense attorneys ammo to prove the network was biased in favor of landing the arrest footage.
@@PrettyFLY4aWiFi. those aren't new, I don't think. I think the suicide of that one guy made the networks drop the show due to liability.
@@forallthestupidshit3550 Nah others offed themselves too. He was just a rich, important assistant DA.
@@MiguelDLewis I didn't remember he was an assistant DA. OOF!
So does that mean that they are seriously still making new ones? I thought Hansen said they were done when I saw him on YHM, fairly recently.
Chris Hansen is rolling out a new show in November
Yeah that's not vigilantism.. 🤦♂️
I'm surprised no-one has brought a "vigilantes" to court for entrapment.
Then the chat log would become part of the court record. Don't be so surprised.
That's rich.
In BC, a vigilante set up a guy for a sting. They got him, they gloated... and showed the world that they had entrapped a mentally disabled man. 👏
I've always thought that it's a big ego trip for the vigilantes. They think they're something because they do this when it's actually quite foolish behavior. I wasn't impressed with Hanson's show either because all that was going on there was monetizing foolishness.
Great video as always, Dr Grande.
FEY...I AM NOT IMPRESSED BY YOUR PERFORMANCE
RUclipsrs are making money too. Police do their job. I've watched a lot of both tho 🤷♀️
It's ok if it's a ego trip that doesn't hurt anyone and saves the lives of innocent children. Would you rather the vigilantes not take the risk and let child offenders run free? As an aspiring father myself, I'd prefer decoys and vigilantes doing what they do, regardless of their ego trip if it helps put creeps behind bars.
It depends on their actions. I went on two coupes in my late teens. Nothing recorded. Just confrontation and fights. But it turns out to be hearsay because the guy was messing with a group member’s ex.
But regarding vigilantes there’s more than just pedo vigilantes. There’s all sorts like ones that seek out drug dealers and ones with many free time who seek out commentators. If you look up Myron may, he had dealt with the commentator one.
I agree, it’s an ego trip, and a self-righteous one. I don’t side with the targets of these vigilantes, but Dr. G is right - the second these guys pick on a target their own size, or one that is truly unhinged, it’s gonna end badly for everyone involved.
While I’ll admit these guys provide a certain level of schadenfreude-style entertainment, they ultimately accomplish nothing.
The TV series To Catch A Predator was unforgettable.
In my Addictions class in college, an internet cop (I think that was what he refered himself as) entrapped people in almost an identical manner (only they would be arrested when arriving at the meeting spot).
I had no idea that these vigilante groups even existed, it is almost like they are creating an easy opportunity for the crime that wouldn't exist without their efforts.
These people must not have thought through the whole group thing, they could easily be killed if they met up with an aggressive person.
Very interesting case!
The civilian vigilantes sounds like a hip-hop or post punk group. 🤣
I picture them as jazz rap group from the 90s.
@@kauswekazilimani3736 like Digable Planets, Tribe Called Quest, or Arrested Development?
@@DreamingInTechnicolor Black Sheep, De La Soul 😂
@@kauswekazilimani3736 or almost anything touched by J Dilla!
@@kauswekazilimani3736 Mad Villain
Hi Dr. Grande 👋🏼 Still lovin your videos content and your consistency. So rare these days. Thanks for all the uploads. I love getting these notifications you have a new video out....makes my day....sometimes twice a day. 😀
We are all suffering since Sam O'nella Academy stopped uploading videos.
@@bast4rdlyreaper never heard of that. Thanks for the recommendation!
I doubt this was Jason's first time.
It's been a hectic day so far, so I made my comfort food, Sat on the couch, and pulled up Dr. Grande. ❤️
I’d pick vigilantes over child predators anytime.
1:04 That's generous to the show. What happened was 1 of the people they were attempting to lure got cold feet, so not wanting to lose part of his precious episode, Chris Hanson went to that guy's house and started confronting and filming him, and the guy shot himself on the spot.
I always love it when Doc says
"because of the murder part"
Call me old fashioned but that's a pretty big/important part
His deadpan delivery of jokes is one of my favorite parts of his videos. I think one of the first videos I saw of his was about a dad that killed his kids (or something like that,) and Dr. Grande ended up saying something like "thereby temporarily suspending his campaign for father of the year to do this..."
I subscribed immediately.
Have you watched this podcast on RUclips (or listened elsewhere?) They have several different Playlists (so you get an understanding if the podcast will be discussing a serial killer, or some kind of wild conspiracy, and so on. I believe on of those playlists is named "the killing part" (and obviously it's the playlist of the podcasts on high profile killers). Just thought it was a clever name and I noticed it immediately.
So what's the problem? This seems like a strange hill to die on
I can't fault vigilantes, not like law enforcement does anything substantial against predators on their own...
You sound really intelligent
@@willnill7946 big thank
@@willnill7946 predator?
I can. Nobody, not a single set of individuals on the planet wants child predators around (except child predators), doesn't matter who you are. But being a vigilante is not the solution, at least not untrained and unsupervised.
If there was a program, assistance for mentally questionable people to avoid becoming a predator, good reporting for families and a less aggressive and targeted police force or an independent task force, this would be a lot less of an issue.
Sadly no matter what, most child assault happens from family members meaning the biggest thing we can do is teach people how to raise kids and report things when we see any hints.
Wait Jason was carrying a gun when he went to meet an underage girl?
Nah it’s fine he was just gonna take her hunting after dinner.🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
The undercover group got lucky! He could have opened fire on then
@@robd1329 seriously 😳
Waiting for Gordon Flowers or Chet Goldstein to enter the chat
I have observed these so-called "creep catchers" and I feel they are motivated by some prurient need to exact vengeance or "justice" on someone who is not worthy of sympathy. Furthermore, they seem to try to present themselves as "winners" in the fight against child exploitation and I think that's pretty messed up. There really are no winners here.
Children are the winners.
The creep catchers are doing more to protect children and bring forth justice than the federal government, but then again you got to think the federal government is infested with pxdophiles who are just trying to look out for their own kind. Look at uncle Joe and his rxpe showers and comments about him being 30 and "her" being 14. Imagine living in the timeline where we elected a pxdophile.
the winners are the preds. these idiots mess up and current or future investigation. now the pred nearly has to be found with a live boy or ded girl. to get anything to stick.
IMHO, in terms of character traits, many of them are grade a creep material themselves.
That said: At least they don't really harm non-creeps.
Have a word with yourself and stop feeling sorry for predators! Of course they feel a sense of winning, these stings are hard work and horrible but what keeps them going is the hope they will catch the man who is trying to abuse children. They deserve a medal. There is a few prominent groups in the U.K. who have had excellent success and have been on TV etc. As long as they are organised and do not break any laws or harm the abuser and let the law deal with them. No sympathy for them. This isn’t a “both sides” thing.
Thank you. A few years ago I saw RUclips videos of these Chris Hansen copycats and at first I thought it was cool that they were helping out taking down these predators, until I realized that by the end of the video, the perpetrators never get arrested. I believe that some of these people think they’re really doing the right thing and feel frustrated when it seems like police aren’t doing anything, but in reality they’re often derailing ongoing investigations or ruining their chances in court for a successful conviction.
Arrest or not, isn't it a somewhat off-putting experience?
Where is your evidence that any investigation was ever derailed by these people?
They often do get arrested. What are you talking about?
Which ones were you watching? There are plenty of channels wherein the people are almost always arrested and convicted.. Try Colorado Ped Patrol or PP Southeast Texas
@@Sloimer maybe so, I was just talking about the ones that I watched though. And even when arrested, that doesn’t mean convicted, and you know that their lawyer is gonna try their damn hardest to claim that the evidence should be thrown out because of things like entrapment and unethical/messy investigations, and often times they would be right.
REQUEST: Hi Dr. Grande! I do not know if you listen to Swindled podcast (my favorite), but there is an extensive episode about Budd Dwyer and his suicide during his resignation speech on live television. Could you please cover this case and make a case for his guilt/innocence in regard to the charges brought against him? I just watched your video about Christine Chubbuck and it reminded me of Budd Dwyer's live suicide (a very disturbing and incredibly sad case as well).
Ok another comment. I also catch predators and had the honor of working with who you called a vigilante. Eric and PCI conducted themselves professionally and for the purpose of exposing child predators with in our constitutional rights. None of this is wrong and to be discouraged nor would it matter if it was.
Also prosecutors taking cases is the problem? No it's the solution. When you expose an online predator and commit to not enforcing the law degrades the principle of law and order that holds a society together. Eric is an honorable person who is devoting his life for the betterment of others with little to no return on value.
I have a friend who's father had this vigilante predator hobby or whatever it should be called. It was eye opening to say the least. The things he would have his daughter do, the things he did to her, and the things he encouraged were everything he pretended to be hunting.
I met her while I was shopping and I bumped into a friend from highschool a year after graduation. He introduced his girlfriend and I invited them to come hang and smoke some weed. They seemed normal enough, although the dude was never part of the normal crowd, and the invited my gf and myself to come over and swim and smoke with them in a nearby town. The girl said her roommates were annoying and would try to latch onto us so we should avoid them. When we got there, we didn't go inside, they didn't have a pool, and the house seemed to be decrepit. We smoked a blunt and the male roommate came out and he seemed to be alright, maybe a couple years older than I was, and he sold weed, cool. She says we can go swimming in the neighbors pool, he had an arrangement where she was allowed to if she was skinny-dipping and the same went for her friends. Fair enough I thought, creepy, but who cares about some old dude looking at me if he doesn't try to "insert" himself in the situation. So I talk to the roommate guy introduce myself and he does the same. I ask how long he had been her roommate, he said "fifteen years, I'm [her] father" I said GTFO, he said seriously he was he was like 35 or something and she was 15. I started to think this guy was a weirdo and no wonder she didn't want to hang with the roomies, but I also thought it was fcked up if this was all true. My buddy was 19, she was 15, they lived with her parents and her dad sold them weed? Nah. My gf and I found an excuse to leave shortly after this and the next time buddy and his girl came over she confirmed it. My girl and I kinda took them under our wings and tried to straighten them out but it was all crazy and way past anything we could help with. I remained friends with them since then, and we had always treated her with a parental-ish attitude, like if you need help or are in a bad spot, call and we will come rescue.
When she was in her early twenties, she told me about the "stings" her father would be part of. She never explicitly said her photos were past the point on legality, but holy f the things he would have her engage in were. He pierced her (not ears, not face, but above the navel) at like 13, he ran a photography business, but would have her model for this vigilante group and use her to engage in chat and all the things you would want a consenting adult for.
She ended up being everything you pray your daughter never becomes, he still runs his photography business. He put a restraining order on her and infrequently enforces it, and had her imprisoned at one point when she mentioned that the dogs were biting her and the fleas were out of control and the squaller was overwhelming.
My point is that these vigilante groups, I think they are overcompensating. From meeting this guy and the stuff he did, I think he uses it as a front to justify his actions and involvement in the same community he pretended to condemn.
Holy shit. This was an intense story to read. That is terrifying. But you do make a good point. Assuming you've seen any To Catch a Predator episodes, what you're describing (like, how some of these vigilante people may be just as bad at the predators they try to catch) feels similar to how I always felt about Chris Hansen. I saw quite a few episodes of the show when it was on tv, and when reading the transcripts (of the "minor" and the grown adult chatting previously, he always just seemed giddy and/or way too into reading such a disgusting conversation. His expressions and the tone of his voice while reading those made me feel so uncomfortable.
@@Throatzillaaa no, I never really watched them. But I do know that people are prone to taking up causes for the the concepts they are guilty of. Even if they never act on an urge or commit the crimes they speak out against, they recognize the worst inside themselves and they fight against it. Jung talks about integration of the shadow, and how traits in your shadow make you recognize those traits in others, then you project an amplified persona on those people and detest them. Also, unrecognized and denied traits will lead to outbursts if uncontrolled and if you recognize the traits you hide and deal with them, then you are able to control them.
11:40 this has nothing to do with the police and everything to do with the district attorney. Show some integrity and acknowledge that.
The district attorneys should allow illegally obtained and unreliable evidence in court?
@@MrAerohank "illegally obtained and unreliable" how so?
@@MrAerohank no, I said it’s up to the district attorney to use evidence by these groups, it’s not up to the police.
@@MrAerohank The evidence was so ,,illegal'' that the predator was convicted based on them :)
Expect this to become more common as our police retire, quit or are unable to do their job because of the political climate
They literally canceled to catch a predator because a piece of crap sick pervert killed themselves? Honestly that's disgusting the vast majority of people I know think that's the best route.
You are a friend of Putin. Go join up! He will welcome you. Enjoy your life now. Find friends who appreciate you.
The thing that got me with people doing these things is what if a gun was brought? As noble as the trend is it’s truly a dangerous thing to do. There’s plenty of people who wouldn’t think twice to pull a trigger. It’s scary.
I hate to admit I am in two minds about this.
The police are overwhelmed with work and innocent girls are being victimized. But then to be fair I had a colleague who was set-up by the police and they successfully tried and imprisoned the bastard.
I was abused by older men and I was a tubby little dumpling...
If only there was a program in schools to educate. I hope and trust things have changed.
In the meantime, if done properly I am all for exposing these deviants for the exploitation and the shere gall of their wickedness.
I just don't encourage a group of good Ole boys trying to entrap a weasel.
Why is anyone who hunts predators immediately assumed to be a “wacky” religious fanatic? I’m a Christian and this assertion is astonishing to me
I support most of the child predator catchers. They deserve to be exposed and humiliated.
The police do very little to bring these predators to justice.
There are so many creeps out there who are abusing our precious children. Even infants are victims.
My wish is for them to serve time in general population.
Always appreciate your analysis Dr. Grande.
Most of these dudes are larping clowns
I don't mind vigilantism if it is done properly. I'd rather this than someone on the streets that is willing to harm a child.
I know I’m thinking with my emotions more than I’m being logical, because I hear what you’re saying, but as a dad to a 4 year old, I wish we had these vigilantes in every city in America. Just because predator kills himself here and there, or just because a few people go crazy sometimes, I have nooooo issues with these people protecting our kids. More often than not, these hero’s put people behind bars or at least make the community aware of them.
Here’s a crazy thought…..if people stop fucking with our children, predator catchers will have to go back to their day jobs.
I don’t get this video, Dr. Grande. Jason was guilty. Maybe instead of scolding the vigilantes, scold the slow ass police departments who aren’t doing anything.
You mention the vigilantes interrupting the cops…..maybe the cops should actually do something.
I do agree with you on the candor of the vigilantes. I definitely don’t condone the violent rhetoric. Simply catch them and send them to jail.
If anyone comments, I’m willing to listen to reason. My thoughts aren’t written in stone.
That pesky Satan, he gets accused of all sorts of things when church goers avoid taking personal responsibility for doing harm to other people.
Satan punishes evil people, so no wonder "Christians" are worried about going to hell 🔥 So many religious folks are 100% pure evil.
Irrelevant personal resentments.
They have huge egos. Justice system already is unfair at times, no need to add a bunch of untrained yahoos trying to catch people. Great points always. Thanks Dr G😊💞💞
Hello beautiful replied to your message. Poor Steve the addict that broke his arm was wearing brass knuckles on his fingers 😣❤💙💙💙
I’ve never seen a group with huge egos and I follow a lot of these channels. You could argue the police would also be untrained yahoos as they would most likely be thrown on a 1 week course as “training”. These catchers focus solely on predator hunting, see it as a specialty which they get better and better at the more they do because that’s all they do. Police have a much broader scope on what they cover and are busy enough as it is on a day to day basis. So you could actually argue - “a jack of all trades is a master of none”
@@montana6489 As Dr G said they make many mistakes. Good intent doesn't always mean great outcomes. They have no law degrees and could wrongly set someone up/cause them to go to jail.. They are mostly yahoos. Bringing cops issues into this is off subject and deflecting.
@@cottontails9003 Hi beautiful back. Didn't see your other reply. Will try to find it😊💙🧡💙🧡💙🧡💙🧡
@@zenawarrior7442 How many current pred catchers have been convicted of setting someone up? How many?
Creep : “You’re Chris Hansen “
DTG : “ No I’m Dr. Grande “ 🦇
You're channeling your inner J. Jonah Jameson Dr. Grande. Let's applaud vigilantes as a whole.
When I clicked on this video, I never could have imagined the outcome of Yoko Ono needing to be rushed to the burn unit.
That burn came out of nowhere!
Third degree murder.
Well said! Vigilantism can be appealing on an emotional level, but is a disaster-waiting-to-happen in reality. Best to leave it on the movie screens and in the comics.
9:02 yup, hindering an investigation, it is a huge possibility us pr3d catchers could potentially be talking to same person LE is talking to & if a “vigilante”(as YOU call them) intercepts, it will mess up the investigation. I use to catch these men until I had a big meeting with an ADA and a chief of police in my county saying they don’t want me doing it anymore. Their main concern was safety & hindering an investigation. In the short time I decoyed/caught them myself, I exposed 10
My problem with some of these people that do these "to catch a predator" style videos is their intentions. I've seen a lot of these people (one channel in particular) that are straight up bullies. I'm not sympathizing with the people they catch, grown men trying to meet kids, but you can clearly see that some of these youtubers don't care about kids. They just found a loophole so that they can bully people, and that's ok, because those people are worse.
I've seen videos of them making fun of a guy who tried to meet a boy. But not because of that, because he was gay and he talked gay. Or videos where the guy happened to be mexican, and they kept saying "go back to your country". Non of those things had anything to do with them trying to meet 13 year olds.
It's like kicking a rabid dog. Some people just like kicking dogs.
That was a brutal Yoko burn. Damn.
I'm an attorney though, and I thank you for your measured and educated video here.