Those batteries you tried to put in there are protected cells. They each have a protection circuit on top called a BMS, for battery management system. That's why they are slightly longer and have a knob on top and also why they don't fit into your battery pack. Since your Dewalt battery pack has a BMS of its own, they are really not necessary. They add extra resistance, parasitic loss, limit the current and worst of all, they glitch out and cut the power on really high loads, because high loads will momentarily lower the voltage below the threshold voltage, which is usually around 3V. You can actually very easily remove the protection circuitry if you remove the shrink wrap on those batteries. They are connected by a nickel strip. They are not really designed for high power applications like a power tool. Flashlights infamously do not include a BMS, that is why they are mostly used in those applications and plus the knob on top makes it easier for regular folk to locate the positive.
Well, you inspired me. I had a bad Black and Decker tool battery and decided to rebuild it. I bought the little welder and a set of new 18650's as you did. Big surprise! When I went inside to start desoldering the wires, I found a sense wire that had broken. I resoldered it, and the main positive and negative leads that I had already desoldered. I put the battery back together and it is working just fine. I guess the welder and spare 18650 will have to wait until another of my batteries fail.
Nope, this one can give you 15-20A max. It’s too low for 5s1p battery. You need 25-30A at least for this type of battery. As 18650 it can be murata vtc5a(2,6A/h cell) or Samsung 25s(2,5 A/h). Best of all use 21700.
Dude, I am absolutely doing this. Awesome video, thank you so much. And honestly, your commentary has to be like 60% of the enjoyment of watching this, love your enthusiasm.
Excellent tutorial Mike. No loud obnoxious music or sensationalism of any kind, rather just easy to follow, and a pleasure to watch. I would like to buy the bangood spot welder. What is the model description? Thank you for your video.
Hey! Banggood calls it a 1S mini spot welder. It’s the only one on the site that looks like the one in the video. There’s a flash sale on it right now.
@@MikesInventions Firstly thanks for your reply. I don't see the flash sale. Its still the same price as before approx. forty dollars and change. Sending you all the best!!
One time I cut open a micro usb, stripped the pos/neg and put them to the + - on a Bauer bat and it actually worked until I forgot it like that for a whole day and it lit on fire
Killer work dude. I have a bunch of these dewalts and I even power my cameras with them. I was planning on having to do this down the line, and it's great to see that the battery controller tolerates cell replacement- and even a cell upgrade! Those Samsung 18650's are definitely the way to go.
I have been playing Hell trying to get the bottom black casing separated from the battery cage on a DCB404. Now that I know it is probably RTV'd in place, I might get a little bit more aggressive with the screwsticks. Yours is the best video I have seen on actually doing something useful with these batteries. I have tried the jump-start technique to no avail, so I would like to actually measure each battery with a multimeter. Thanks for being detailed. New subscriber on board!
This was a great find...of course, the day after I purchased the new DeWalt Powerstack batteries to replace my two old DCB201 batteries. The new Powerstacks use pouch cells vs traditional cells. The Powerstacks are a more compact form factor with a slightly better power output. I have a big, clunky DCB230 (3Ah) and a DCB205 (5Ah). This tutorial should be helpful when one of those begin to choke. Thanks!
I took apart a 4 AH battery and instead of cutting the terminals on the bad cells I used a drummel tool to cut through the spot welds and I have enough of the terminals left to attach them back to the new batteries.I also marked them + and - to insure that the new batteries are put back properly oriented. Doing it that way I only have to solder, or spot weld, the terminals onto the new cells.
I was thinking the same thing, I’ve popped the welds up with a pocket flathead easy. Less work is the way I always intend to work, and it doubles as the smartest way more often then not.
Oh I know that feeling, I found a Milwaukee M12 3.0 the one with the square bottom from a recycle bin, and I already had salvaged 18650, and I repacked that m12 and use it at work.
Thank you so much for this, Mike! Your video was the first and only one I'll be watching, no need to watch anymore - nice job! Amazon sells similar spot welders, and I will definitely be rebuilding instead of buying new one's! Peace.
Wow, the way you did this is great. I have so many batteries going bad it will be worth the time and money spent. I will take a picture with my phone before I disassemble ( I am so forgetful).
Hello, I did some digging about power tool batteries and it appears they usually built with batteries that have a high discharge rate capacity, like a Samsung 25R or 25S. These battery will help for a job that needs a little tork. All battery cells don't have the same purpose. These 30Q don't have a big discharge rate (15A), which is not bad at all, but nothing like a 25S that has a 25A discharge rate. They are a little more expensive. However I think it's worth the extra charge to get a powerful battery. Have you tried a challenging job with it? Thanks.
This has been the best "Rabbit Hole" I've went down in a long time!!! Thank you for the rebuild. AND best of all the battery welder.. before I got done watching this video I bought one! Thank you so much Mike. keep up the great VIDS!!
I had a short negative lead on the 21700 pack that I built. I stretched the lead and soldered it. After a week of use the pack went dead. I pulled it apart and the negative lead had broken its solder joint on the plug. I removed the wire and put a longer 16 gauge black wire on it - no problems, since. If the wire are tight plunging and unplugging the battery can break these connections. I always put a little extra wire on both the red and black leads.
This is most important to rebuild batteries that are no longer made like the 18v l-ion Dewalts and some bigger 56v Echo batteries I have. Thanks for a clear explanation.
You do know that the 18vand 20v Dewalts are the same battery. They use the EXACT same 18650 cells. Nominal working voltage (the cell spends 85% of it discharge in this area) is 3.6-3.7v. Multiply by 5 and you have 18v. All Dewalt did was measure at close to full chhage, 4.0v, multiply by 5 =20v. It is a marketing ploy, that's it
I could be wrong but I did not see any information on the cool little spot welder. Would you be able to tell me the information on it so I could order one. Especially when it comes with the metal tape.. Thank You.
I really liked you and your video !!! You explained clearly and tutorial orther well very honest no hidden tricks !!! You are one of the best youtuber I had following !!! 👍👌👏😃
i knew i needed a battery spot welder ... and you confirmed this with your lad helping out.. : ) got some e bike and scooter battery's that i am playing with and this tool will be a great addition to the team .. great work ..
Take care of this spot welder, it is not good for pure nickel .15mm and above. Nickel plated will work fine with this but under 0.15mm. To pass more ampere it is essential to have a pure nickel of .15 or .2mm.
Be aware that where you have folded the nickel strip for the (+) terminal, the fold can weaken the strip and crack. Under high amps it can become a hot point and cause the strip there to fail (I had it happen myself). Its better to make an "L" shaped strip with 2 strips welded together. Also, when you weld the balance stips to the main strip, drop the welders amps/time down. as there is no cell directly under these welds to draw heat away, the welder can blow through the strips here. Good job otherwise!
At 12:40 it says across the screen “these needed rebuilding, FAST” did that mean that you had to rebuild this pack again shortly after putting it back into service? Maybe use setting for to get better spot welds with more penetration?
Hey Terrance. I'm not sure why it says that. It's certainly meaningless. Probably a remnant from editing that I forgot to cut. I can't figure out what I meant or where that might have belonged. Oh well... thanks for watching!
nice clean video/tutorial Mike. those 30Q cells are great. I used some sony VTC6 which are similarly awesome. i've noticed the factory tabs are thicker and sometimes are nickel plated copper. it's better to pull the welds carefully and re-use the tabs instead of using those thin Chinese nickel-plated steel strips. It actually makes a very big difference on high amp draw tools!
not sure, but I don't think his welder will do any thicker than the strip it comes with (0.15). So, if limited to 0.15 would you recommend pure nickel strips, pure copper strips (if compatible?), nickel plated copper, or doubling the nickel plated steel (if feasible?).
@@firstnamelastname7476 Double up is an acceptable strategy for a weld thickness limitation. Avoid steel strips; get some pure nickel amd maybe some nickel plated copper strips from Keith Tucci at his eBay store "18650ed". get some insulating washers too to protect the positive end from short circuit. finally, watch a ton of you tube videos building batteries to avoid mistakes you will otherwise risk making.
I love the Dewalt brand power tools... I use them on a daily basis as i am currently building 5 metal buildings. I have a couple of battery packs just like that that are dead in the water and need to be redone... thank you so much for the instructional know how.
so glad you got real 18650 replacement, those others would have been crap. Ive done this with cells i got from an ebike. 3.2ah cells, old new stock panasonics
Next battery pack you rebuild to get strip off grab with needle nose pliers and roll the strip off by twisting the pliers, when reassembly use new nickel strips and replace with a good quality 18650 cell of higher capacity, if your going to all the effort to rebuild the pack use better batteries that have a higher charge and discharge rating. Great video, i allways learn something new.
Nice project. My only comment is it might have been a little easier with finer tipped needle nose pliers. I think I need to get one of those spot welders for myself.
One last note, put a little silicone on packs when reassembly so they dont jiggle around in the case, it might make one of your welds or solder joints come loose. Also trim off your nickel strips so there is no extra extending past your welds. Tell Alex he did a great job and teach him about the tools he uses and about safety and danger especially around li-ion batterys.
Great video. I try to make my batterys last as long as possible. Always using the slow DCB107 1.25 amp charger to keep charging temperatures low and storing them at room temps but eventually they degrade. This will be helpful.
I need to do this with some of the 18v li-ion batteries that dewalt made for the older 18v tools. They make the older tools so much more usable than the ni-cd but dewalt sold these batteries for a relatively short period of time. There are the 20v adapters for 18v tools but those are pretty clunky and don't have great physical fit in some tools
you mentioned in your video that you did a video on converting ni-cad to lithium drill batteries but I can't find it on utube. can you please tell me where to find it. thanks
Pero las nuevas celdas samsung que compraste son de las mismas caracteristicas que las originales? Tienen que ser de alta descarga para que no se sobrecalienten
Excellent how to video! I have standardized my power tool battery packs to DeWalt 20V Max battery packs, and purchased adapters to my non-DeWalt power tools. This means that I only have to maintain one brand of battery pack and it can be used everywhere on my homestead. At some point, I'll need to open these packs and replace the 18650 batteries to keep my system running at peak capacity. Imagine if manufactures built their battery packs to make 18650 battery replacement a simple consumer diy procedure. The planned obsolescence that results in a one way trip to a landfill is a massive failure of corporate responsibility to the environment.
I like this approach . Just keep in mind the Dewalt 20vMax lithium packs have no onboard BMS; they only have a failsafe fuse against a severe short circuit such as caused by catastrophic short circuit failure of a single tools's power electronics, or of an accidental direct shorting of the + and - output terminals. Under normal conditions the tools themselves take care of over-discharge-current protection, as well as overdischarge /low- voltage cutoff. The chargers do the overcharge protection , as well as the individual cell balancing. I like this approach because it makes the batteries more reliable because there's no BMS to fail. However, when you use them with an adapter to power a tool that expects a battery containing an integrated BMS - Ryobi for example - then you have to manually manage overdischarge protections yourself -- by either checking the on-board charge indicator and stopping at 1 bar, or else by stopping using the tool when the power has fallen-off substantially. I try to use more shallow discharges and swap packs more frequently. The packs will thank you by lasting much, much longer. So much so in fact , that you probably won't ever need to face re-cellling them.
I have 2 20v single layer pack like yours. One is identical inside from 2017, the other is from 2013 and have vents on the bottom and a metal heatsink glued to the bottom of the batteries. I guess they figured out they could cut costs!
An other great video. Keep it up. Just wondering if there is a specific order when you connect the battery leads to the BMS? I upgraded the cells in a 12V still working but weak cordless drill battery, unfortunately does not work, yellow & red LED on the battery coming on when the trigger is pulled, than the red LED goes off & the yellow stays on. All 3 replacement cells were fully charged before upgrade. The battery powers a GREAT NECK 12V cordless drill. Is there a BMS master reset option for these batteries ?
I seriously recommend you double up on the tabbing as .12mm is not adequate to carry a 30 amp or greater load the batteries can deliver and the tools demand. What you do is just weld a second tab over the first. Unfortunately the welder is not capable of welding reliably any tabs thicker than .12 mm. A min of 14 gauge wire is required and if you cut identical lengths of the wire conductor in a 14 ga wire and the tabs you are using, you will find the tabs have a mass of less than half the wire. This needs to be addressed. The tool will draw almost 40 amps under load. That very thin tabbing is the weak link and prone to overheating the pack or acting as a fuse.
First of all cells with a higher discharge rating should be used unless you are not going to use the pack for anything substantial. Second, 30Q should be used in parallel to satisfy need to power most tools under heavy load. If you are going to try to rebuild a pack according to those standards .12mm tabbing is not sufficient.@@davidbarker3591
The longer cells likely had built-in protections circuits. On that note, it’s usually only one or two cells that fail when a battery pack goes bad, so I would’ve checked the old ones for sure. One more consideration is the amp discharge capacity. Most 18650 cells can’t unload all the amps a power tool might need, so power tool battery packs often use cells with high amp output over cells with higher capacity.
The cells with "protection" are about 1/8" longer, much longer than shown. The cells pictured simply have positive tabs for stacking in series end on end as commonly used in a flashlight.
How would you do this WITHOUT the little welder? I would like to do this and I am proficient with soldering... but i'm not trying to spending 50 bucks on that thing I will use once.
You can solder the tabs on with a powerful enough iron so you can add heat fast only to then ends. I used a 60w on my other 18v packs and I wish I had more heat. Thanks for watching
Too much heat can damage your new cells. Best case is it shortens their lifespan, worst case they can catch fire. I spent the dollars on a spot welder, then I'll have it for the next battery rebuild
First of all, thanks for this video sharing to us and your job. Let me suggest some things: U were lucky that the first Meco 18650 4000mAh cells didn't fit to the case because your power tools wouldn't work with that battery pack. I haven't found any datasheet about that battery cell, but I am positive, that it cannot handle more than 5-8A continuously. In a power tool's 5s1p battery pack U need cells, that can handle at least 20A continuous discharge without overheating. An other thing: did U check the original nickel strip width and thickness? I am pretty sure that was more then 0.12mm.
The battery store you recommend also sells the pure nickel strips in various sizes. They talk about how it's bad if they aren't really pure so seems like they are. Thank you for video.
I'll bet that the strips he used were nickel plated steel. EVERY cheap spot welder sends nickel plated steel with the welder. It carries ½ the current as pure nickel.
@Mikes Inventions When looking for a spot welder are there any minimum requirements for welding cells. I have plenty of experience soldering, but need to look into a spot welder. Any recommendations for a spot welder? Great video!
Worked for me. Put discharged battery on the charger, red light flashed on the charger indicating a bad battery. Jumped with a fully charged battery (+ to +, - to -), waited 5 minutes. I put the bad battery on the charger and it began charging and came up to a full charge. Thanks
Something folks never cover when building a DeWalt battery pack is the four balancing leads. The white lead goes to the 12 volt tap, the yellow goes to the 4 volt tap, the blue goes to the 16 volt tap and the green goes to the 8 volt tap. Some plugs have these wires identified by 12,4,16 and 8 on the plug. Some say L1,L2,L4,L3 which complicates things but they are still 12,4,16 and 8.
Nice. Really wondered why more people don't do this. I really wanna see someone do this with the Samsung 40T or the mollicell p42a if they can get around the physical constraints between the 18650 and 21700.
Some Dewalt batteries have the Samsung 30T (it was an older battery) and I think now Dewalt has some that have the 40T. Would either be an 4Ah, 8Ah, 12Ah battery. I even pulled some Samsung 25R6's off a Harbor Freight brand battery. I think it was a Hercules
@@ericklein5097 that's actually pretty sweet that they use descent cells. I guess the nature of usage and expectation of quality dictates that a bit though. Surprised that the Hercules isn't using some no name cell most though. Makes me wonder if the HO red cells use some of the higher quality, high constant output current cells then
Unfortunately the ID pin of the battery pack (as converted from a resistor which is on the main circuit board of the assembly) tells the charger how many amps. So you can't just increase the amperage of the individual batteries and suddenly change a 1A into a 2A, a 2A into a 3A, etc. The resistor is marked with "80A", for example to indicate 800K ohms in the case of a 3A pack. Put an ohmmeter from ground to the ID pin and measure the resistance. The pins are marked on the outside of the DeWalt case.
Hey Ed. I had to think about it and remember the context… I meant that the batteries needed rebuilding and I didn’t have the time to design and build my own spot welder. I just wanted to fix my batteries quickly. I still haven’t built one, but it’s on the to-do list.
Two questions, do you trust or have you measured these meco batteries. And what if we mix different batteries of the same capacity and chemistry? Do you know if we can do that?
Great video. I love these 1865’s because they are used in so many things. I just built a battery charger for these that can be charged with a mini solar panel. So these are handy and powerful if one ever loses power for a while. Thank you! Also interesting that the 5 batteries add up to 18.5 vdc. I guess 20 volts is a rounded up number!😂
Great information I've been wanting to rebuild some batteries for a while and this might be my motivation to do so. You were very detailed👍 also glad to see your getting Alex Into this kind of stuff it's so important to teach kids to work on things and it's a great way to bond. And for that I liked and subscribed to your content.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
Those batteries you tried to put in there are protected cells. They each have a protection circuit on top called a BMS, for battery management system. That's why they are slightly longer and have a knob on top and also why they don't fit into your battery pack. Since your Dewalt battery pack has a BMS of its own, they are really not necessary. They add extra resistance, parasitic loss, limit the current and worst of all, they glitch out and cut the power on really high loads, because high loads will momentarily lower the voltage below the threshold voltage, which is usually around 3V. You can actually very easily remove the protection circuitry if you remove the shrink wrap on those batteries. They are connected by a nickel strip. They are not really designed for high power applications like a power tool. Flashlights infamously do not include a BMS, that is why they are mostly used in those applications and plus the knob on top makes it easier for regular folk to locate the positive.
Awesome information to have, thanks for sharing!
😊
no bms on battery it's just normal 18650 no circuit board
😢 Lol
😢😮😢 bbqk
Never know and see a spot welder like that. That really impressed me! Thanks Mike.
Well, you inspired me. I had a bad Black and Decker tool battery and decided to rebuild it. I bought the little welder and a set of new 18650's as you did. Big surprise! When I went inside to start desoldering the wires, I found a sense wire that had broken. I resoldered it, and the main positive and negative leads that I had already desoldered. I put the battery back together and it is working just fine. I guess the welder and spare 18650 will have to wait until another of my batteries fail.
Those Samsung 30Q were ideal for your needs. Good Capacity, Adequate power delivery, and great value for money.
Nope, this one can give you 15-20A max. It’s too low for 5s1p battery. You need 25-30A at least for this type of battery. As 18650 it can be murata vtc5a(2,6A/h cell) or Samsung 25s(2,5 A/h). Best of all use 21700.
Dude, I am absolutely doing this. Awesome video, thank you so much. And honestly, your commentary has to be like 60% of the enjoyment of watching this, love your enthusiasm.
I think the spot welder is the main tool to do this job right along with right type of batteries. Phenomenal work mate. Thanks for sharing.
Excellent tutorial Mike. No loud obnoxious music or sensationalism of any kind, rather just easy to follow, and a pleasure to watch. I would like to buy the bangood spot welder. What is the model description? Thank you for your video.
Hey! Banggood calls it a 1S mini spot welder. It’s the only one on the site that looks like the one in the video. There’s a flash sale on it right now.
@@MikesInventions Firstly thanks for your reply. I don't see the flash sale. Its still the same price as before approx. forty dollars and change. Sending you all the best!!
Ive said "perfect timing" many times in life, but this video tops them all on perfect timing!!!! Thank you
K0
One time I cut open a micro usb, stripped the pos/neg and put them to the + - on a Bauer bat and it actually worked until I forgot it like that for a whole day and it lit on fire
Killer work dude. I have a bunch of these dewalts and I even power my cameras with them. I was planning on having to do this down the line, and it's great to see that the battery controller tolerates cell replacement- and even a cell upgrade! Those Samsung 18650's are definitely the way to go.
That Spot Welder is a Must Have For Many Types of Small Electrical Projects
I have been playing Hell trying to get the bottom black casing separated from the battery cage on a DCB404. Now that I know it is probably RTV'd in place, I might get a little bit more aggressive with the screwsticks. Yours is the best video I have seen on actually doing something useful with these batteries. I have tried the jump-start technique to no avail, so I would like to actually measure each battery with a multimeter. Thanks for being detailed. New subscriber on board!
This was a great find...of course, the day after I purchased the new DeWalt Powerstack batteries to replace my two old DCB201 batteries. The new Powerstacks use pouch cells vs traditional cells. The Powerstacks are a more compact form factor with a slightly better power output. I have a big, clunky DCB230 (3Ah) and a DCB205 (5Ah). This tutorial should be helpful when one of those begin to choke. Thanks!
I took apart a 4 AH battery and instead of cutting the terminals on the bad cells I used a drummel tool to cut through the spot welds and I have enough of the terminals left to attach them back to the new batteries.I also marked them + and - to insure that the new batteries are put back properly oriented. Doing it that way I only have to solder, or spot weld, the terminals onto the new cells.
I was thinking the same thing, I’ve popped the welds up with a pocket flathead easy. Less work is the way I always intend to work, and it doubles as the smartest way more often then not.
Dremel. Good tip btw
First time seeing spot weld soldering! Can't wait to try it!
Great production Mike, thank you so much for your professionalism and you're a cool dude to boot!
Oh I know that feeling, I found a Milwaukee M12 3.0 the one with the square bottom from a recycle bin, and I already had salvaged 18650, and I repacked that m12 and use it at work.
Thank you so much for this, Mike! Your video was the first and only one I'll be watching, no need to watch anymore - nice job! Amazon sells similar spot welders, and I will definitely be rebuilding instead of buying new one's! Peace.
Thank you! I picked up the spot welder and and can’t wait for it to come in!
Mike you keep it simple in a very complicated world. Thank you buddy!
Wow, the way you did this is great. I have so many batteries going bad it will be worth the time and money spent. I will take a picture with my phone before I disassemble ( I am so forgetful).
Hello, I did some digging about power tool batteries and it appears they usually built with batteries that have a high discharge rate capacity, like a Samsung 25R or 25S. These battery will help for a job that needs a little tork. All battery cells don't have the same purpose. These 30Q don't have a big discharge rate (15A), which is not bad at all, but nothing like a 25S that has a 25A discharge rate. They are a little more expensive. However I think it's worth the extra charge to get a powerful battery. Have you tried a challenging job with it? Thanks.
This has been the best "Rabbit Hole" I've went down in a long time!!! Thank you for the rebuild. AND best of all the battery welder.. before I got done watching this video I bought one! Thank you so much Mike. keep up the great VIDS!!
I have some batteries that I was planning to do the same thing. I was confident I could do it. But it's nice to watch someone else do it first.
I had a short negative lead on the 21700 pack that I built. I stretched the lead and soldered it. After a week of use the pack went dead. I pulled it apart and the negative lead had broken its solder joint on the plug. I removed the wire and put a longer 16 gauge black wire on it - no problems, since. If the wire are tight plunging and unplugging the battery can break these connections. I always put a little extra wire on both the red and black leads.
This is most important to rebuild batteries that are no longer made like the 18v l-ion Dewalts and some bigger 56v Echo batteries I have. Thanks for a clear explanation.
You do know that the 18vand 20v Dewalts are the same battery. They use the EXACT same 18650 cells. Nominal working voltage (the cell spends 85% of it discharge in this area) is 3.6-3.7v. Multiply by 5 and you have 18v. All Dewalt did was measure at close to full chhage, 4.0v, multiply by 5 =20v. It is a marketing ploy, that's it
Good job ! From France and I am rebuilding my own batteries
A truely excellent tutorial video, If only others could do them this well...Thanks very much Mike, ..!
Awww. shucks. Thanks Brad!
I could be wrong but I did not see any information on the cool little spot welder. Would you be able to tell me the information on it so I could order one. Especially when it comes with the metal tape.. Thank You.
I really liked you and your video !!! You explained clearly and tutorial orther well very honest no hidden tricks !!! You are one of the best youtuber I had following !!! 👍👌👏😃
i knew i needed a battery spot welder ... and you confirmed this with your lad helping out.. : ) got some e bike and scooter battery's that i am playing with and this tool will be a great addition to the team .. great work ..
Take care of this spot welder, it is not good for pure nickel .15mm and above. Nickel plated will work fine with this but under 0.15mm. To pass more ampere it is essential to have a pure nickel of .15 or .2mm.
I wish you would have provided links to products you used.
You're Awesome Mike..I learned something today..I wish I knew that spot welder when I was fixing my electric scooter battery..👍
Be aware that where you have folded the nickel strip for the (+) terminal, the fold can weaken the strip and crack. Under high amps it can become a hot point and cause the strip there to fail (I had it happen myself). Its better to make an "L" shaped strip with 2 strips welded together. Also, when you weld the balance stips to the main strip, drop the welders amps/time down. as there is no cell directly under these welds to draw heat away, the welder can blow through the strips here. Good job otherwise!
Thinking might want to spot weld the fold - just a thought - kia ora
At 12:40 it says across the screen “these needed rebuilding, FAST” did that mean that you had to rebuild this pack again shortly after putting it back into service? Maybe use setting for to get better spot welds with more penetration?
Hey Terrance. I'm not sure why it says that. It's certainly meaningless. Probably a remnant from editing that I forgot to cut. I can't figure out what I meant or where that might have belonged. Oh well... thanks for watching!
nice clean video/tutorial Mike. those 30Q cells are great. I used some sony VTC6 which are similarly awesome.
i've noticed the factory tabs are thicker and sometimes are nickel plated copper. it's better to pull the welds carefully and re-use the tabs instead of using those thin Chinese nickel-plated steel strips. It actually makes a very big difference on high amp draw tools!
not sure, but I don't think his welder will do any thicker than the strip it comes with (0.15). So, if limited to 0.15 would you recommend pure nickel strips, pure copper strips (if compatible?), nickel plated copper, or doubling the nickel plated steel (if feasible?).
I'm new to all this, so if anyone else can answer pls do
@@firstnamelastname7476 Double up is an acceptable strategy for a weld thickness limitation. Avoid steel strips; get some pure nickel amd maybe some nickel plated copper strips from Keith Tucci at his eBay store "18650ed". get some insulating washers too to protect the positive end from short circuit.
finally, watch a ton of you tube videos building batteries to avoid mistakes you will otherwise risk making.
@@yeliab814 Cheers for the tips.. Keith's store doesn't seem up anymore.. but I'll check out my local sellers here (australia)
(hmm keith may actually be local to me, if this is him ruclips.net/user/hashtag18650ed)
I love the Dewalt brand power tools... I use them on a daily basis as i am currently building 5 metal buildings. I have a couple of battery packs just like that that are dead in the water and need to be redone... thank you so much for the instructional know how.
or you can warranty the battery and get a free replacement and not have to do any of this
Can you look into the latest PowerStack batteries from DeWalt see if they can be refurbished as well.
so glad you got real 18650 replacement, those others would have been crap. Ive done this with cells i got from an ebike. 3.2ah cells, old new stock panasonics
Next battery pack you rebuild to get strip off grab with needle nose pliers and roll the strip off by twisting the pliers, when reassembly use new nickel strips and replace with a good quality 18650 cell of higher capacity, if your going to all the effort to rebuild the pack use better batteries that have a higher charge and discharge rating. Great video, i allways learn something new.
Nice project. My only comment is it might have been a little easier with finer tipped needle nose pliers. I think I need to get one of those spot welders for myself.
Great little spot welder. Haven't seen such a neat and compact unit like that one.
One last note, put a little silicone on packs when reassembly so they dont jiggle around in the case, it might make one of your welds or solder joints come loose. Also trim off your nickel strips so there is no extra extending past your welds. Tell Alex he did a great job and teach him about the tools he uses and about safety and danger especially around li-ion batterys.
Has that spot welder held up?
Great video. I try to make my batterys last as long as possible. Always using the slow DCB107 1.25 amp charger to keep charging temperatures low and storing them at room temps but eventually they degrade. This will be helpful.
Nice video! I might just do this. My 20 volts are failing me. Thanks Mike!
It would be interesting to see how well it performs in a grinder
Just did that with mine! Works a treat.
I need to do this with some of the 18v li-ion batteries that dewalt made for the older 18v tools. They make the older tools so much more usable than the ni-cd but dewalt sold these batteries for a relatively short period of time. There are the 20v adapters for 18v tools but those are pretty clunky and don't have great physical fit in some tools
Great presentation but I can not find this exact battery. Would you please add a link for the battery location to buy?
you mentioned in your video that you did a video
on converting ni-cad to lithium drill batteries
but I can't find it on utube. can you please tell me
where to find it. thanks
Pero las nuevas celdas samsung que compraste son de las mismas caracteristicas que las originales? Tienen que ser de alta descarga para que no se sobrecalienten
Where did you get the new cells from?
Excellent how to video!
I have standardized my power tool battery packs to DeWalt 20V Max battery packs, and purchased adapters to my non-DeWalt power tools. This means that I only have to maintain one brand of battery pack and it can be used everywhere on my homestead. At some point, I'll need to open these packs and replace the 18650 batteries to keep my system running at peak capacity.
Imagine if manufactures built their battery packs to make 18650 battery replacement a simple consumer diy procedure. The planned obsolescence that results in a one way trip to a landfill is a massive failure of corporate responsibility to the environment.
I like this approach . Just keep in mind the Dewalt 20vMax lithium packs have no onboard BMS; they only have a failsafe fuse against a severe short circuit such as caused by catastrophic short circuit failure of a single tools's power electronics, or of an accidental direct shorting of the + and - output terminals.
Under normal conditions the tools themselves take care of over-discharge-current protection, as well as overdischarge /low- voltage cutoff. The chargers do the overcharge protection , as well as the individual cell balancing. I like this approach because it makes the batteries more reliable because there's no BMS to fail.
However, when you use them with an adapter to power a tool that expects a battery containing an integrated BMS - Ryobi for example - then you have to manually manage overdischarge protections yourself -- by either checking the on-board charge indicator and stopping at 1 bar, or else by stopping using the tool when the power has fallen-off substantially.
I try to use more shallow discharges and swap packs more frequently. The packs will thank you by lasting much, much longer. So much so in fact , that you probably won't ever need to face re-cellling them.
Hi there, do you have a link to buy this spot welder ?
Can u do a ryobi battery rebuilt? I think they have protection bms that disable the whole thing
I've done their packs. Once you put ot on their charger, they work..
So if you buy a rechargeable battery cell spotwelder, how do you fix its battery when it goes bad?
How have these worked over time? I'm going to follow your recommendations if they have held up. Thanks for the video.
Hye Doyle! Still going strong after all this time. Thanks for watching. You got this!
Very informative and helpful to rebuild batteries.
Good job Mike, now I know how to do it! Thank you.👍
Most useful video I've seen in a long time. Thank you!
Excellent video. will be copying your instruction. Have just purchased the contacts welder. Thank you.👍
You know you're a bit of a tech nerd when he says "this is really exciting let's get going" and you agree.
Can we please get a tool list and where to get them. Like the specialty tools like spot welder.
I have 2 20v single layer pack like yours. One is identical inside from 2017, the other is from 2013 and have vents on the bottom and a metal heatsink glued to the bottom of the batteries. I guess they figured out they could cut costs!
Do you have a link for the specific spot welder you used? Preferably an affiliate link!
Where do you get the cases from I have a 18v 4.0ah xr DCB182 and I need a new case I’m based in the north of Ireland
I have 2 batteries where the negative tab and wire connect it's burnt in two would make that happen?
An other great video. Keep it up. Just wondering if there is a specific order when you connect the battery leads to the BMS? I upgraded the cells in a 12V still working but weak cordless drill battery, unfortunately does not work, yellow & red LED on the battery coming on when the trigger is pulled, than the red LED goes off & the yellow stays on. All 3 replacement cells were fully charged before upgrade. The battery powers a GREAT NECK 12V cordless drill. Is there a BMS master reset option for these batteries ?
I seriously recommend you double up on the tabbing as .12mm is not adequate to carry a 30 amp or greater load the batteries can deliver and the tools demand. What you do is just weld a second tab over the first. Unfortunately the welder is not capable of welding reliably any tabs thicker than .12 mm. A min of 14 gauge wire is required and if you cut identical lengths of the wire conductor in a 14 ga wire and the tabs you are using, you will find the tabs have a mass of less than half the wire. This needs to be addressed. The tool will draw almost 40 amps under load. That very thin tabbing is the weak link and prone to overheating the pack or acting as a fuse.
Samsung 30q only has a CDR of 15A. Not a big hp cell
First of all cells with a higher discharge rating should be used unless you are not going to use the pack for anything substantial. Second, 30Q should be used in parallel to satisfy need to power most tools under heavy load. If you are going to try to rebuild a pack according to those standards .12mm tabbing is not sufficient.@@davidbarker3591
Nicely done. Excellent video. No fluff and clearly see what you did. Thanks
I am really impressed with that spot welder! Looked at it and it's USB-C rechargeable. Really awesome. I'll have to pick one up!
Ideas: Weld the tin fold in the folded position, or it will be a breaking hazard. Sand the tin strip where you solder to it.
The longer cells likely had built-in protections circuits. On that note, it’s usually only one or two cells that fail when a battery pack goes bad, so I would’ve checked the old ones for sure.
One more consideration is the amp discharge capacity. Most 18650 cells can’t unload all the amps a power tool might need, so power tool battery packs often use cells with high amp output over cells with higher capacity.
The cells with "protection" are about 1/8" longer, much longer than shown. The cells pictured simply have positive tabs for stacking in series end on end as commonly used in a flashlight.
How would you do this WITHOUT the little welder? I would like to do this and I am proficient with soldering... but i'm not trying to spending 50 bucks on that thing I will use once.
You can solder the tabs on with a powerful enough iron so you can add heat fast only to then ends. I used a 60w on my other 18v packs and I wish I had more heat. Thanks for watching
Too much heat can damage your new cells. Best case is it shortens their lifespan, worst case they can catch fire. I spent the dollars on a spot welder, then I'll have it for the next battery rebuild
great video i been doing this for 2 years now i have a stationary spot welder and make extra money on the side.
First of all, thanks for this video sharing to us and your job.
Let me suggest some things: U were lucky that the first Meco 18650 4000mAh cells didn't fit to the case because your power tools wouldn't work with that battery pack. I haven't found any datasheet about that battery cell, but I am positive, that it cannot handle more than 5-8A continuously. In a power tool's 5s1p battery pack U need cells, that can handle at least 20A continuous discharge without overheating. An other thing: did U check the original nickel strip width and thickness? I am pretty sure that was more then 0.12mm.
The battery store you recommend also sells the pure nickel strips in various sizes. They talk about how it's bad if they aren't really pure so seems like they are. Thank you for video.
I'll bet that the strips he used were nickel plated steel. EVERY cheap spot welder sends nickel plated steel with the welder. It carries ½ the current as pure nickel.
How many mAh are the batteries?
what a great informative and to the point video,please make more on lithium batteries ,you and your helper did good 5 thumbs up.
Nice video mate do you know what batteries u need for the original dewalt lithium batteries the xrp
I love how dewalt use balance voltage from charger and use simple electronic inside battery , easy to rebuild later.
Bingo you said it :) I took apart a Ryobi fast charge it had electronics inside.youre taking a chance on a fried board.
@Mikes Inventions
When looking for a spot welder are there any minimum requirements for welding cells. I have plenty of experience soldering, but need to look into a spot welder. Any recommendations for a spot welder? Great video!
Awesome work man. I need that spot welder in my life!
Sorry- what is the purpose/function of the balance wires?
Worked for me. Put discharged battery on the charger, red light flashed on the charger indicating a bad battery. Jumped with a fully charged battery (+ to +, - to -), waited 5 minutes. I put the bad battery on the charger and it began charging and came up to a full charge. Thanks
Something folks never cover when building a DeWalt battery pack is the four balancing leads. The white lead goes to the 12 volt tap, the yellow goes to the 4 volt tap, the blue goes to the 16 volt tap and the green goes to the 8 volt tap. Some plugs have these wires identified by 12,4,16 and 8 on the plug. Some say L1,L2,L4,L3 which complicates things but they are still 12,4,16 and 8.
Nice. Really wondered why more people don't do this. I really wanna see someone do this with the Samsung 40T or the mollicell p42a if they can get around the physical constraints between the 18650 and 21700.
Some Dewalt batteries have the Samsung 30T (it was an older battery) and I think now Dewalt has some that have the 40T. Would either be an 4Ah, 8Ah, 12Ah battery. I even pulled some Samsung 25R6's off a Harbor Freight brand battery. I think it was a Hercules
@@ericklein5097 that's actually pretty sweet that they use descent cells. I guess the nature of usage and expectation of quality dictates that a bit though. Surprised that the Hercules isn't using some no name cell most though. Makes me wonder if the HO red cells use some of the higher quality, high constant output current cells then
Unfortunately the ID pin of the battery pack (as converted from a resistor which is on the main circuit board of the assembly) tells the charger how many amps. So you can't just increase the amperage of the individual batteries and suddenly change a 1A into a 2A, a 2A into a 3A, etc. The resistor is marked with "80A", for example to indicate 800K ohms in the case of a 3A pack. Put an ohmmeter from ground to the ID pin and measure the resistance. The pins are marked on the outside of the DeWalt case.
At 12:38 you put a flyer at the top that stated *"These had to be rebuilt fast."* What exactly did you mean?
Hey Ed. I had to think about it and remember the context… I meant that the batteries needed rebuilding and I didn’t have the time to design and build my own spot welder. I just wanted to fix my batteries quickly. I still haven’t built one, but it’s on the to-do list.
@@MikesInventions That makes perfect sense. Thank you.
Mike, could you supply links to your supplies? thanks
Good job guys..
Do you have the
Name of the battery packs
And plece to buy. ?
Thanks
Have mostly Milwaukee can those be rebuilt also ?
Yes
Very easy!!
Two questions, do you trust or have you measured these meco batteries. And what if we mix different batteries of the same capacity and chemistry? Do you know if we can do that?
Great video. I love these 1865’s because they are used in so many things. I just built a battery charger for these that can be charged with a mini solar panel. So these are handy and powerful if one ever loses power for a while.
Thank you!
Also interesting that the 5 batteries add up to 18.5 vdc. I guess 20 volts is a rounded up number!😂
If you measure V while a 20v drill is running it drops down to 12.
Excellent presentation. Good info. The world is powered by 18650s.
Great information I've been wanting to rebuild some batteries for a while and this might be my motivation to do so. You were very detailed👍 also glad to see your getting Alex Into this kind of stuff it's so important to teach kids to work on things and it's a great way to bond. And for that I liked and subscribed to your content.
Thanks Jerry! Welcome aboard.
Where I can buy the tool you used to put cells together..and price for each cells thanks
Sweet spot welder
where did you get the welding machine