Tech Tips With Lindy, Part III - Tone Capacitors Explained
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 24 июн 2014
- In this informative video, Lindy explains how tone capacitors work in plain English, and plays some real world examples using a unique bench tool called a decade box. These are pretty heavy concepts, but we think you'll find it worthwhile. Pour yourself a cold beverage and enjoy! Feel free to call us at the shop at 804-358-2699 for more info.
Видеоклипы
What a wise man. Brilliant series. No nonsense.
I love how Lindy.... after all these years in the business... is still in love with playing the guitar. This isn't just a business for him... it's a labor of love. Kudos!
I just had an amazing experience with tone capacitors. The usual values, we know the differences in sound. Most of the time as soon as you set the potentiometer to zero the sound is muffled, unusable. With 0.015uf it is the least worst. I experimented with much lower values, between 0.0047uf and 0.0082uf. It sounds like a wahwah pedal stuck in the middle position, when the tone pot is at zero. With some mid/treble frequencies which are preserved. By choosing the right value I reached an extremely interesting and unique sound, and above all very usable. Not a dull, uninteresting sound. I tested these values with a single p90 junior LP (50's wiring). The sound is amazing. I think that for stratocaster style pickups or humbuckers, other values could be better, but not certain.
FIRST CAPACITOR VIDEO THAT ACTUALLY SHOWS ANY DIFFERENCE! THANK YOU!
There has actually never been any debate about the very real differences in sound when varying the actual capacitor values. What some capacitance producers&vendors claim, and a lot of moronic people - with no real understanding of how the wiring of a guitar works unfortunately believe - is that different makes of the same value cap will not make any difference in the output signal coming from a guitar.
It is a little like saying that gallon of water in bucket is more than a gallon of water in a carton.
@@martinskanal I don't think that's what people are saying. I think they're saying a gallon of water in a metal bucket tastes a little different than a gallon of water in a plastic bucket. It still tastes mostly like water, but you can also taste of little bit of the bucket.
@@joybuzzer ..the capacitor simply does not affect signal directly. Two capacitors with same measured value will have e x c a c t l y the same effect. That is physics 101. People who have revolutionary ideas about how a bumblebee cap with the same value as any other cap creates differences in output, need to document why and how we need to rewrite physics.
Lindy Fralin sell excellent pickups to customers, many of whom have esoteric, private theories that is not in line with physics. He could easily cater to these customers and lie about his products, but he does not because he is an honest person. Thus he will provide information about how different capacitor values can influence sound, but he will NOT claim that two caps with equal values sound differently.
@@martinskanal Watch/listen to the video Jason Lollar has done on the subject and tell me the same value cap in paper and oil vs orange drop don't sound a bit different. I was suprized, there *is a difference although somewhat subtle.
I have bought my own Decade box now thanks to this. Each guitar gets checked against each value to find the optimal tone for that guitar. Thank you for quickly demystifying such a heady topic.
Impressive demonstration, never heard that so clearly in my life. Great job!
One of the best video covering tone caps on the web!
I recently soldered a Mallory 150 .033uf on my telecaster HANDS DOWN the best decision I have ever made, it just sounds right for telecaster pickups, I have had .047 uf most of the time it was Ok but I felt like my tone was dull with a .022uf it was just TOO Bright the .033uf is the best of both worlds in the middle and gives you that sounds you want in a pickup and the Mallory mustard 150 is a HUGE PLUS as well
This was great! So easy to understand when you can actually hear it instantly!
Yeah, Finally and demonstration and explaintion that I can totally understand and makes sense.. But does it answer all my questions, Closer than anything else! Great job. Might have to check out a set of Lindy's pick ups! Great guy!
Great video. Makes things so much clearer. Thanks.
Thanks for the education, Lindy. This is great!
Great video, very useful cap comparison !! Thx Lindy
Many Thanks for this great video. Your pickup are top drawer in my book. Blue Max Stringed Instrument Repair
So cool to actually USE the Tone pot haha. It's not all smoke and mirrors and ghosts in the machine, IT"S REAL. Cheers for the informative testing, handy cap gadget you have. You helped confirm my findings with cap tests I made a while back. Yes I also like around 0.002 or 0.004, really usable tone.
good demonstration. It helps a lot. Thanks Mr. Lindy
What a great and useful video! Such a clear explanation with that "eBay" device.
Really appreciate all your work. Really hear the differences.
Awesome idea this demo! Thanks Lindy!!!
Excellent explanations. Thanks a ton guys!
Mr Fralin you are a genius!!!
I love how that last note sounds at 4:25
Wow. Great video. Thanks!
Excelente trabajo!
Very good class!
Superb explanation, an demonstration of cap values, much appreciated...bet I'll have an 1180 comin this way, within th next few days ;-) Many thanks, as always, Lindy an crew! !!
awesome video - very cool
Since they combine, the first setting was 0.05uF + 0.002uF + 0.0006uF = 0.0526uF; the second value was 0.002uF + 0.0006uF = 0.0026uF; then 0.001uF + 0.0006uF = 0.0016uF. Worth mentioning, since small values alone appear to produce quite different results.
I learned from Danny Gatton a long time ago that a .047 cap gives the best wah sound. I would much rather have a tone cap that gave me a lot of versatility and that I only had to turn a smidge to take the edge off things or turn a lot to get a jazz sound etc. I also use linear pots to achieve quick staccato swells via Phil Keaggy. Oh, and I also clean the grease out of the pots so they'll be easier to turn. I use Hip-Shot knobs with rubber O-rings around them for my pinky to get a nice grip, and it helps that they're much lighter and easier to move than a standard metal Tele knob.
Bill all you need is a bourne low torque linear pot. super easy to turn. costs maybe a dollar. people go through a lot of trouble when it is all there ready to go.
I have a .047 cap on my Strat and it’s works great.
It is a great video from IMHO the best strat and tele PU maker in the world (never tried his humbuckers:). This video is really useful information for people who wonder what value caps they want.
Unfortunately it does not end the "debate" on caps and tone. Not because the video lack anything - rather it is achieves exactly what it sets out to do - but because people still keep on confusing different values with different brands/makes.
People should notice that mr. Fralin not for one second discuss different makes of capacitors. He never says the bumblebee has any advantages over modern caps with the same values. He only talks about values. And he even says that varying these values is very much down to personal preference.
To me it really makes more sense to pray to the Flying Spaghetti Monster/Burrito Brother, than believing in exotic differences between equal value caps made by different makers. There are literally ten thousands of electrical engineers/scientists who can offer an evidence based argument for the non-existence of differences in audio output when comparing two equal value caps of different makers. There are no scientists in the world who can disprove the existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
So when people buy the Gibson Historic Bumblebee Capacitors 2-pack for 129 USD (Moahahahaha) they are buying actually buying about 1 dollar's worth of Wesco 32 PL polypropylene caps covered in plastic to look like the "real deal". Quiet sad really. If Gibson wanted to survive their financial problems, one step might be to stop ripping of their customers so blatantly.
martinskanal btw I have his pure PAF humbuckers they a fabulous. Also your right people don’t understand the value of the cap is the only thing that affects the tone.
great demo.
ive been looking at lollars and fralins, bare knuckles and don mares, this guy is just so easy to like, made my decision for me!
I know right...He just has that friendly local guy vibe that you could just chat with for hours.
Great video!
I'd also suggest turning guitar volume pot down and experiment with the tone controls..
Gotta get one of those boxes
i love lindy. i have fralins in most of my guitars, and i turn the control plate on my teles around just like lindy.
Thanks for posting this video was great! I just experimented with a .01 cap in my Strat and want to try either .0022, .0033 or .0047 and wasn’t sure if it would be too subtle. From your video looks like .0047 may be just right!
Hi Lindy, I think a video like this would be helpful using the Tele (or a Strat) configured with the 50s wiring mod to show how different tone cap values affect that circuit. I would be indebted to you for such a video. Thank you for this video!
Matt at 30th St. put a push/pull tone with different caps on one of my basses and we call it the “dub” circuit.
yes good info. I have a fat strat or HSS and I use a .015 orange drop I try to get the low voltage caps so they wont be to big in size so I will have extra room inside. I wire my strat with no tone control for the middle pickup but use tone for the bridge that combo makes cool sounds for #2 #4 settings
Really interesting video, thanks. There has been a lot of discussion on youtube about where log and linear pots should be used. Whats your take on this? You seem to prefer to listen and try a few options, I like this common sense approach. Might make anothrr interesting topic for a vlog.
on the fralin site there's a mod I think for a 2 tone cap push pull tone pot, which would be cool. I'd never seen anyone mention such a mod
I just wired straight to volume pot to output jack. My volume knob is my tone cap/pot.
I don't use tone controls on my guitars. I just move the vol knob to the tone position and throw away the tone pot. Volume only. But that cap device works great to demonstrate the effects of each value.
Each in his own I guess, but I'm totally with you on that one. No tone pot are half as effective as the tone controls on your amp, so get the absolute most of the signal over there by simply decoupling the tone pot.
oh yeah? I hardwired my guitar straight into the amp. jk
Hey Lindy. Nice info. Rick, the B&W speaker guy here. Just picked up an EICO on eBay. I kept waiting for you to talk about humbuckers.... so maybe use different values on an LP type for bridge and neck? Best, Rick
Hey lindy, thnx for the vid, do all these same values apply to humbuckers as well? or is that graph you drew way different?
Very interesting video.
I understood a lot of tips, thanks for sharing your knowledge.
I thanks I’ll do my own capacitor decade box.
Hi Lindy, great videos mate. I have just made a thinline semihollow tele style guitar ash body maple neck and fingerboard I want to put in single coil pickups what would you recommend?
The first person in the field I've ever heard tell it as it is about capacitance and how it effects tone shaping. No snake oil.
My telecaster vintage.
Capacitor New old stock:
CRL .05 M 50 volts.
Any vids on. Useing separate caps for each pickuo. Really the strat bridge pickup...
Decade box with a big long somewhat inductive (unsheilded) wire. Great idea, I'd go shorter shielded wire. And yeah your range of caps will be in a much narrower range. Stuff outside that range is just not really for consideration.
09/25/2019. Hello, I just added a new 250V tone pot in my 2018 Fender Players Series Telecaster. I left in the original capacitor, and it sounds OK. However, I do not know what the Fender factory capacitor is, per I did not see any ID number on the original (small round shape), but the new one that came with the new 250v pot is a square shape at .022mf. What do you think the tone difference would be, if I out in the new capacitor? Would the new capacitor have more bass or more treble? Thank you, Tom Retired in Florida
Cool vid
wow. leave it to Lindy. I never knew that an .001 could have such a nice effect on a bridge pickup. I don't tend to use a tone control on a neck pickup, but I do like a .001 as a BASS contour to make a humbucker or hot single coil less bassy and more sparkly/twangy. so now I'm thinking of how to get both bass and treble contours on a Tele using a single .001 and a push/pull or a mini-toggle. I could easily do it using two caps, but the nerd in me wants to scheme it out with just one cap.
What capacitors did you have on the Butterscotch tele in the vid.....(bridge and neck). THANKS your vids are always so dang great...thanks for what you do.
I use a .0015 on most Fender style guitars
I'd put 2 push pots on a two pickup guitar. The tone push pot chooses what cap for rolling of tone. The volume plus pot chooses if you want a treble-pass on the volume.
Great video, should have came here first! Lindy, you always do good by me! Thanks again.
In my Stratocaster, I've got a 0.05uF on neck & middle and 0.018uF on bridge. I can detech one of the capacitors (in series) from the neck tone to get 0.1uF but I don't know if it makes more sense with the Telecaster pickup. I've built a varitone box for more dramatic tone shaping anyway.
Don't talk to me when I'm playing...what do you think this is, an interview? haha...
Is there a way to get the 3-way selector switch to change capacitor value at the same time (you select pickup)? So, 0.1uF neck, 0.002uF bridge.
Mr. Fralin, I play a Godin Multiac Jazz SA with an active hexaphonic piezo bridge pickup system and a neck position mini humbucker(soapbar style). I love the bridge pickup and use it all the time, but I'd like to use the humbucker more. The guitar allows for a blend of the two, which is great. Problem is, the tonal range of the humbucker is from muffled to mud, which does not meet my needs at all. Should I consider a different pickup, or should I maybe look into a different tone pot? Any you would suggest?
Do you know the ohm reading of the mini, we make some models wound for clarity. Call the shop, 804-358-2699
I prefer V-Cap capacitors and have them in all my guitars, as they just add more bass but they don't muddy up, - (and I know some people in jazz may prefer that) but they are still clear on the top end as they roll more bass in, - untill you get down to 2 or 3 on the dial. That's my choice.
You can wire the cap on one side of the switch and the resistor on the other side, having two different cap values for different pickups. There's a lot of ways to wire a low-pass circuit...
you could also build a mini decade box with 3 caps using an on on on dpdt switch and fit it in the guitar... going to try this mod on a tele using a .22 up position ( strat ) 47 mid position ( standard tele ) 47 + treble bleed down position... + a 4 way switch mod for bridge,, bridge neck series,, bn paralel ,, n :)
so, i'm trying to get something straight.
i was testing two caps:
4.7nF seemed to have a resonant peak when turned all the way down, more bite.
10nF seemed to be more mellow when turned all the way down.
and if you go 22nF, it's totally dull and no resonance.
am i hearing right? does it happen on every amp?
Excellent demo Mr. Fralin, I especially like that tune you played @ 3:40, can't think of the title, does anyone know?
That's called Bluesette by Toots Tilman
Ah yes . . Thank you so much ;-)
Can you speak to how much the tone changes when tone knob is on 10 when the cap changes are made?
Can you do one with bass? Got a Fender J that I would like to change the cap on to a higher value...
Wow your soo good tnx for sharing this awesome video the sound is really awesome
Interesting exploration of tone pots, this really shows the differences.
A vid on small cap to lower High's on a bridge pickup
Where could one purchase that box?
So dont they all (all the different values and materials) sound the same when the tone pot is fully open? Doesn't it only effect the tone when the tone pot is used to reduce treble?
im used in my tele a 0.008 orange ' work great'
I have a 333J for both neck and bridge pots from Fender. 333J seems a bit UMPH, to me at .033uF
I would love to see this with a bass
I’m going round in circles googling and getting know where
I want to hair evidence
My favs are .001/.010/.033 on HBs
I use 0.003 on both single coils AND humbuckers, neck AND bridge. works perfectly on every case.
What would your tone be like if you didn't use a cap?
So, the higher capacitance on the neck pickup is because the tone is less bright to start with, so (if you used a smaller value capacitor) there'd be no frequencies to cut until you've already turned the pot down unreasonably far, ...?
So if I have a Strat with one tone ,one volume control and wanting a humbucker in the bridge and single coils in mid & neck
what capacitor would I use 500k or 250k ? Would it be ok to use 500 on the tone and volume?
Sorry but you're mixing concepts. The resistance of the pots it's messured in ohms (250Kohms, 500 Kohms, etc.). The capacitors in the tone pot are messured in Farads. In your case I would go with a pair of 500k ohms pots and some big value capacitor so you're able to reduce the high end of those single coils.
Question for Lindy.
I'm thinking I could get a better range of subtle-ish treble roll-off tones (in my shriller pickup combos) in the general "magic cap" range by using a *pair* of .002 or, maybe best, .003, caps, as follows.
Three-way switch that gives me, in order: both caps in series / one cap alone / both in parallel.
With a .002 cap this should give me .001, .002, and .004. With a .003 cap it should give me .0015, and .006.
Is this correct?
With *non*-equal caps, is the series formula Ceq = (1/[1/C1 + 1/C2])? Do I have that right?
It'd be subtle, but I can definitely hear a timbre change between doubled and halved values...?
Did you try it?
Cool! Having an electrical background, I completely understand capacitance (and inductance) as it relates to frequency and tone shaping but what about all this talk about orange drop, bumble bee, thin film, Mylar, and so forth. Does this have any real effect on tone or is it b.s?
I think the value does have a large effect, the type not so much.
Thanks for the response and thanks for this informative presentation! This will be of great help as I do my own experimentation.
What about... an 8 pin dip micro switch, with 8 different capacitors... on the pickguard so you can have 8 different settings, or even combinations, some could have a resistor...idk just a thought. I probably won't do it...
my man is a G
Lindy, on the decade box are the tens, hundreds and thousands cumulative? The .0006 is set and you change the .001 to .002 but if they are additive then the setting is .0026. Is that correct? These old decade boxes are great but the old resistors are made of Bakelite. If you buy one and a couple of them are burned out, how can you replace them? Great video to explain the tone, you got me hooked on changing my telecaster.
+SeaSharp They do add together but believe it or not there is only 4 very large caps in there wired in very complicated series and parallel for all the different settings.
+Lindy Fralin Yes, I was checking that out. Amazing isn't it, some genius electrical guy figured that out. I'm a mech eng and that stuff was greek to me but over the years it's making sense and I'm having fun modding my guitars and I'm in the middle of making mods on a BJr amp. There is one model like yours on ebay and the guy wants $200 for it and that's way too much. Feel lucky you got yours for $40 bucks. There is a video where the guy has a set up with about 6 caps of different brands but all within the .0025 range and you can hear the difference in cap manufacturers. Between your video and his I'm getting the knowledge of how I want to change my guitars. Can you put a push/pull tone knob on the tely and have one cap for the bridge and one for the neck?
+SeaSharp Of course, I have a Tele set up like that with a .1 down and .002 up, (Blues Special video on youtube)
I noticed that the second selector knob on the decade box was still sitting in the #1 position instead of being at "0". So .001mf is being added to the .01 steps on the top selector switch. Through the first 2/3 of the video.
Sounds good but from my research, the physics is the opposite of what you are explaining: That is, that capacitors act as high pass filters, determining the frequency level below which bass &/or mids are cut...NOT the level above which highs are cut. In addition, the resonant peak frequency is also raised or lowered. So, what our hearing perceives as more highs, is actually less lows and a higher frequency resonant peak (ie: greater volume of low & high presences freguencies...the bands between mids & treble), not actually more treble. Resistance of the pickup coil(s) & the pots act differently.
hello sir thanks for the video, im so glad to whact video so inspirated, may i know how to wiring the 3 tone caps to pickup
I'm not sure what you mean, there are schematics on the website.
Lindy Fralin may i know the web
and i have 3 humb pickup 2vol 1tone pushpull & 5w typhical import swich , how is to wiring may i know the diagram
Maggie Fralin ok thanks for the information but im sofar away can't to call im at java maybe you have whatsapp or bbm pin?
i just want to ask that i have 3humbucker pickup, 2volume potensio 1tone pushpull potensio & typical import 5way swicht, how the diagram is to wiring?? hope you help
0.5 is that same with 504?
I wonder if the .0022 would work that great with a Les paul Style guitar?
They are already thick, I think the smaller cap values have the most value for thinner pickups like Fenders.
Thank you for this great video. I went and bought that same box. But how do i wire it to the guitar? Anyone?
I wired it to the same terminals that the cap would be on the tone control. You do have to undo the existing cap first. Lindy
@@jennyfralin357 so i got the same box as you used here. When i finally got around to wiring my les paul to it, the box works great. But, there is major buzz when the tones are turned up. Does the box need to be grounded or something? How would i ground the box?
How does the resistance value of the potentiometers used factor into this?
A higher value pot will give a bit of extra brightness when all the way up (the capacitor allows the highs to get to ground through the pot...more resistance, more highs survive). That goes for the volume pot, too since it loads the pickups less. The other thing is that it may come up from zero quicker for wah effects. I read that Danny Gatton used a 500k for that reason. (A linear taper would go even faster.)
Why would you NOT want to use a push pull tone pot with a unique cap for each pup? Sounds like a must have to me. . .
billville111 why would you ever use a push pull pot? i use push push pots on all my guitats, a much quicker and easier switch. i never understood why people use push pull. especially with strat knobs, those are hard to grab.
my solution is to use an on,on,on dpdt ( dual pole dual throw ) switch with 3 different value caps one wired to every on position a.1uf a.047 and a .022 with it's in/out wired into the normal single cap position ( basically a mini capacitor decade box.) ,, also have a treble bleed cap n resistor on a 2 way switch so i can turn it on and off and a 5 way peavy omniac style pickup selector mod
The value of capacitance play bigger role on tone shaping than the type of capacitor. Change my mind.
If I want more lows on my bridge telecaster, witch capacitor would you recommend?
A capacitor can't simply boost lows. A higher value will be able to cut highs and mods, but they'll be literally cut and not just lowered in volume to make it sound like the lows are boosted. Maybe try setting the pickup lower and increase the gain on the amp to compensate the lower signal.
New old stock Russian capacitor:
K40y-9
0,033 MK +/- 10%
200 volts
I ordered a 0.47 uF orange drop capacitor on eBay to use with my vintage style Tele pickups, but the seller sent me a cap marked 103J, which if I've understood correctly, is Orange Drop code for 0.01 uF.
That means it will roll off a lot less high end than a 0.47 uF would, right?
I'm debating whether to use it anyway, or take the trouble to complain to the seller.
.47 is way too much. .01 is ok, i like .015 to .022. more than that makes it useless to me.
.047 is the correct number, not 0.47
@@larryn9230 there is no correct number, but .47 is way too much.
The tone circuit on a guitar is really simple, a capacitor to ground through a variable resistance. The standard tone cap on a Gibson with humbuckers is 0.047uF, with a 500k variable resistor in series, which is pretty aggressive at rolling off upper mids and high frequencies. Strats usually use about half that, 0.022uF, and a 250k pot in series, which doesn't start rolling off until a higher frequency. I have found that I like low-output Seymour Duncan Antiquities humbuckers with 0.022 uF, and a 500k pot, it gives me a more usable sweep of tones across the entire range of the tone pot.
V-cap has one for $660 if u want the best
what if i change only one tone knob of my gibson to 500 ohm while other one is 300ohm, does it make difference
The volume pot affects the tone more than a tone pot value.
That's fine for Telecaster, but what about Stratocaster and Les Paul Lindy?
8:07 this question wasn't answered
Does different capacitorvalues affect the tone when set to 10?
He misunderstood the question, but the answer is yes. The cap value changes the sound even when the tone pot is on 10, but it's up to the player to decide whether or not they care about the difference because it's pretty small and most likely not super noticeable unless you A/B them.
Hey I use 1200pf Capacitor & 130k Resistor for my telecaster and Gibson les Paul but I still find it dark sounding, what values in cap and resistor would you recommend or you think this is bright enough already ? Mr.Fralin
Make sure your pots are 500k or higher. The cap only gets rid of highs it can't add any. We do make brighter hum buckers if you need them. Lindy
Leo was too cheap and did not put two tone pots into the Tele. The push pull pot recommendation is a good idea.