Installing Orange Drop Capacitors in the Correct Orientation
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- Опубликовано: 2 авг 2024
- Mr. Carlson's Lab video on orange drop capacitor orientation: • Are Your Capacitors In...
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This video was VERY helpful to me. Thank you for taking the time to make a video about it.
First time coming across this channel. Enjoy checking out different guitar repair/mod/builders. You have a very subtle way while being informative. Can tell you have experience, which is nice to see. There are either very big names which are good or bad, while there is a large amount of inexperienced folk out there who are still learning from videos themselves. Power to em for trying, although makes me cringe a bit when seeing mistakes. Appreciate yours as you still Love what you do, while enjoying it and have a natural teaching ability . Also say this has been the best breakdown imo of guitar cap I've watched, most show how to install there's no explanation of the "how does it work" or even direction it should go. Which is basically learning where to put each piece of a puzzle together without the basic knowledge of learning how to build something yourself.
Will be watching more, looking forward to the content, always looking for a new tip, way, tool or idea. As my mentor used to say many decades ago " those that stop learning are moving backwards". Cheers!
Wow.......did you nail this one! I'm re-capping an old radio and am a fan of Mr Carlsons Lab. Have to install about 20 caps and none are marked, while all the 80 year old ones are clearly marked "outside foil" . The new ones have no such markings and I do not have an oscilloscope. But I'm a sound guy that does karaoke and have a couple of small PA amps handy and tried this with a couple of alligator jumpers and some of the old caps I removed.....Works like a charm! Thank You:-)
Some modern high-end caps are double wound, so it doesn't matter which way they are installed. They're usually much larger than it's equivalent value single wound cap.
Super agree.. even the cap is non polarized but this is the perfect tone cap orientation and connection.. thumbs up!!!
Thank you Drew Jones, very helpful!
This worked for me. I tested all of my orange drops in a recent amp build and marked the negative with a black sharpie. Anything I can do to keep the unwanted noise down is a plus.
Thanx a lot! I was on my way going to buy an oscilloscope to find out the outer foil at my capacitors.
Great video! Helped troubleshoot some issues after installing new pots.
Nice! I do think I have one on pots in the guitar electronics playlist I put together. You might find some stuff interesting in there.
Awesome and a very easy way I have seen so far, to tell orientation on polypropelene caps without expensive equipment like Oscilloscope. Mr.Carlson's Lab of course has even shared an amazing DIY tool to identify polarity, a big blessing for professionals. Drew, thank you for sharing your valuable tip. Bless you!
Thanks for this! I've been hunting the source of hum in my dual LA2A I just built, and narrowed it down to either a ground issue, a tube issue or an issie with the orange drop caps I have i btween both the triodes in the firsr part of the amp stage.
I would touch the orange drop that was physically positioned inbetween both tubes in the amp stage (this is why I couldn't ruel out the tubes) andit would basically do what you are showing in this vid! I bought a couple of solen fast caps to replace them, but they havven't arrived yet, so now I'm going to switch the polarity of the orange drop and see if that fixes it!
Ta for the insight! I had no idea these changed in performance with polarity. But seeing the diagram makes it obvious why that is!
Thank you this was very helpful.
Excellent! Thank you.
I connected black&red crocodile clip wires to a jack plug inserted in my Zoom H4n recorder and could see a lower noise level in one polarity, so took that side as ground.
Thats a cool way to do it.
Great advice just did it!
Thanks so much, interesting find
Very informative!
Huge Carlson fan (I have a giant poster of him in my dining room), nice job this is an extremely useful video.
Glad you liked it!
Thanks so much!
I wanted to add a few points here that I have seen come up a few times in the comments. 1: the cap will function to filter frequencies in either direction and with the same value. The only difference is the amount of EM it will pickup in one orientation vs the other. 2: The orientation will matter less in shielded cavities. Cavity shielding is generally not perfect since you must have gaps where there wires come into it and other things, so it isn't completely worthless to do this in any case, but the folks pointing out that a shielded cavity will filter most of the EM are correct. 3: The instances in which I think this may be *most* important are in situations where the cavity cannot be shielded such as es 335s and similar arch-top situations in which the shielding comes from using shielded wire and thus, the cap can be a very noisy component in the circuit. 4: I wanted to mention (perhaps redundantly) that the reason this works is that if you have the hot lead of the output jack linked up with the outside foil you are basically hooking the outside foil to the tip of the phone plug of your guitar cable, which as one might know, will hum if you touch it due to it being the signal side of the circuit. Imagine rapping a wire around the tip and then touching that. Its the same thing except the wire is the outside foil of the cap. If you hear that hum it means the hot is connected backwards and therefore should correctly be soldered to the opposite lead when doing the actual wiring. To put it another way, when you hear the hum, mark the side of the cap connected to the tip as "ground" and wire it into the guitar that way. This works by hooking it up wrong, finding the problem that causes so you know that the opposite orientation will be correct. The "jumps the gap" illustration I am using in this video is functional for the purposes of this video, but if you want deep dive into how this really works, I would watch this video by The Science Asylum: ruclips.net/video/zYRx6Zub3cA/видео.html
I'm curious how this works with Polyester or PP caps being wired in a tube amp circuit between gain stages. For coupling caps does the ground (outer foil) lead get wired to the grid of the next stage triode or should it be closer to the previous stage's plate? I'm guessing in any other case the ground (outer foil) lead should be orientated closer to any grounding within the circuit. Why do manufacturers never make a notation in this regard?
@@on1ytheb3st I am not well versed in amplifier repair or building, it might be best to pose this question to McCarlsons lab linked in the description.
Thanks!
Why not just wrap the capacitor with aluminum foil and ground it?
@@rockvillemike6062 Well, for one thing that would change the capacitance since you would be altering the conductive surface area. Also aluminum is not solderable.
Thanks for this, very cool. Always heard the guitar caps orientation doesn't matter. I've always have a feeling it does. Need to make that gadget right now. Subed! Spokane here by the way.
Thanks mate 👊
Oh! Very interesting! I will definitely check my capacitors. Thanks from Russia!
Watched couple videos about that topic, but few moments I could not understand.
Which side is "ground" and where it goes in the circuit, thanks to Your video, finally I got the point.
Very well explained, thank you Sir!
Thank you! You should also check out that link to Mr Carlsons lab. I ended up learning a lot from his channel and enjoyed his way of demonstrating and explaining things. I have him to thank for a lot of what I know about capacitors.
@@DrewsGuitarShop I know about Mr Carlsons lab channel, he is very good. Thank you.
thank you!!
Thanks , that is need to know for guitar wiring
Sharpie fine tip are awesome..😊
This is, by far, the easiest way to check the "polarity" of our film capacitors. Thanks!
Its simple and works
Any way to use a DMM to verify direction?
Excellent thanks a lot
nice tuturials
thank you very much ! Perfect explained !
10:00 ... 13:00 thanks! all I needed to know
Very interesting video with very clear explanations. Can I assume that the orientation of a Bumblebee tone capacitor in an electric guitar's wiring harness makes a difference in sound? The reason I'm asking is that I own 3 newer Gibson Custom Shop LP Reissues all with Custombucker pickups and typical 50's style pot-wiring. 2 of the 3 LP's sound great and one not so much. It sounds "veiled" for lack of a better word. Last night I decided to look inside each of these LP's to see if I could notice any wiring anomalies. Low and behold, the LP that doesn't sound as good has its Bumblebee tone capacitors soldered in the opposite direction as compared to the other 2. I know there are many, many variables that determine the way a guitar sounds, but could this be a plausible reason for its lackluster sound? Thanks!
The setup counts for a lot. I always advise getting a guitar setup before doing anything with the electronics. You may find that pickup adjustment, action, string choice and other factors are what you are hearing more than something like this. The thing that happens more than anything with the caps soldered in backwards is hum and interference from outside EM waves, not so much a tonal difference aside from how that hum might interact with the waves produced by the guitar. Take it in for a setup first.
Hey Drew thank you for a very informative video on capacitors I am living in Portland but used to live in Seattle was wondering if Mike lull is still around, or if you know him? He used to repair my guitar in the 80s
Mike has passed away but his shop is still around.
VERY cool 🎸
Any Capacitor with the negative side clearly indicated means that it is not Bidirectional and is used in DC circuits only.
That’s a great variation on the subject. I would definitely use that rather than messing around with $$ equipment. I did watch Carlson’s Lab and I repeat the question I had there… How hard would it have been to mark the dang things during production??
great vid! does this mean i could touch the cap while wired in the the guitar and hear something similar?
no, because this would also depending upon other factors in the circuit, such as the rotation of the knobs on the volume and tone pots, so it is better if the cap being tested is not installed in the guitar when you test the cap for its proper orientation to mark on the cap the ground lead side.
Great video, super explained! I still have one question. Do capacitors with the same capacitance have to be soldered in this circuit? I have one 0.047 and one 0.022. To which potentiometer do I have to solder which capacitor?
Why are you installing two different values of caps? You are going to get different amounts of roll off on each. I mean if you are going to install them you put them on the tone pot. I drew a diagram in the video. ruclips.net/video/v7h5kI8glwA/видео.html
@@DrewsGuitarShop Thank you very much! Will solder 2 equivalents. I will take the installation direction into account!
Usually you would only use one capacitor on one tone pot, unless you were to put a few caps on a rotary type switch. In my guitar I use a 6 rotary switch that has 6 positions, so I can have a choice between the 5 different capacitors on the rotary switch. I positioned the caps on the rotary switch (going clockwise with the knob on the rotary switch) in the order that I have them listed here, so when I turn the knob on the rotary switch I am going in a specific order that is easier to remember, so I can easily select which capacitor that I want from these 5 different values of uf capacitors, meaning the .015uf capacitor, then the .022uf, then .033uf, then 047uf, and last the 068uf. This totals five capacitors, and since the rotary switch has 6 positions, I leave the first position lug
empty for use as a kill switch so no sound goes through if I am taking a pause or a break, for example when I put the guitar on a stand temporarily so I can get a snack or go to the restroom. The rotary switch connects between the leg of the tone pot (where you would have connected a cap normally), and the rotary switch connects to the common ground of the guitar circuit the same that way you would be connecting one cap to the common ground on a tone pot. Note that the rotary switch has two gangs, so you would only be using one of its two gangs.
tysvm
Legend! Thanks for this!
Had a question. By this logic could you also just plug In your guitar and then put the cap into position taking on and off your fingers if you position it right then solder it in when you find correct orientation. Or would this be bad for something else in guitar.
The cap is not always engaged when in the guitar.
your way of having the cap already installed in the guitar and then connected to the amp might not always work, because of the tone pot knob and volume pot knob rotation, meaning if you were to have the pots knob turned to a setting that did not allow the capacitor to work at its fullest filtering potential, you could be getting the wrong result to think yoiu found the correct orientation of the cap leads. It is better to have the cap out of the guiutar for testing which lead goes to ground.
Hi! Thank you! Very helpful video. How do you do this on a Les Paul, though? Where none of the leads are connected to ground?
You wire it in the way I shoed here instead.
@@DrewsGuitarShop Thank you, sir!
Current DOES NOT jump across a capacitor when it's full. That would be an arcing (shorted) capacitor. Electricity is stored and released from a capacitor but does not cross the dialectic. That is why they are used to BLOCK DC current in electronics. It is also why they have a voltage rating...
All the misinformation and voodoo electronics
So is the video correct in capacitor direction
@@howguitars2201 No, electrolytic capacitors are to applied to dc circuits and polarity makes a big difference, working versus an explosion. The capacitors he is using do not, the explanation is also incorrect.
@@danteedee8204 asking cause it seems capacitors in guitars make a difference in make n model caps. Wonder if wich way was ground would as well.
@How Guitars the value of the capacitor in Farads will change the frequency response to the circuit, the change can be predicted if you know the inductance and resistance of the pickups. The construction of the capacitor, orange drop, bumble bee etc. Should not make an audible difference if they are the same value. If there is an audible difference, the values are not the same or a part was defective. There is a chance that the construction could change how much noise is picked up or how long the capacitor will last. Shielding of the cavity can remove the noise.
Thanks for the useful info, does that also apply to mustard caps?
I'm not 100% but probably. They seem to have a foil component so unless that is in the form of cimetrical plates, I am going to say yes. I don't use these at the shop so I am not super familiar with them.
@@DrewsGuitarShop tried it today and it does. Tried many different manufacturers and construction types. It is interesting to hear how different caps are affected differently, some show a big noise difference and others less, but I came across the Panasonic SMF 33nF (very small polyprop) which were very silent on both sides. Well there you go, you live and you learn, thanks again for the useful tip.
@@lorencing I use a 33uf orange drop in my strat. That is a really good value for a single coil tone pot. It is remarkable how much different the throw and sound you get from different designs is. I am glad you found it helpful!
@@DrewsGuitarShop I also think the 33nF (or 27nF) is a good value, also use these values.
Ty for sharing! Is that cable going into the input of an amp? Ty.
Yes
What is a little less ground? Can you tell us about it?when I use this type of capacitors I never see a polarity
So are you saying that the middle lug of the tone pot should have a wire to the far left power to / pickup lead wire lug ? I usually use Seymour Duncan pickups and they all have the 4 conductor wiring..so the Black wire / hot wire from the pickup to the far left / first lug on the volume pot to the middle lug on the tone pot ?
I want to install a treble bleed and already soldered the resistor between the Orange drop cap and it's ready to use after it gets installed "properly".
The Master
Excellent vid. Thanks, Drew. Curious. Is the printed text on the orange drop not consistently oriented, or is this not a reliable way to tell which side is the ground? I would have assumed they'd all be mass produced in the same orientation (at least if the capacitor is sourced from the same manufacturer). This seems like an obvious tell, but it's probably not.
In my experience, the text has nothing to do with the orientation, unfortunately.
That's what happened to my Yamaha 212VFM, when I tried the guitar for the first time it was hum I meant loud hum and it was so annoying then I thought it happened because the cheap potentiometers and the capacitor, so while thought of that I was upgrading the potentiometers plus the pickups and short story I was copying the default or the original electronics solder that came in the Yamaha and after upgrading the hum still there not changed at all. Can you believe it? I've bought some potentiometers again almost three times and do the same soldering and still humming and also I'm doing what everyone does (shielding) but not working also. Could the capacitor installed not correctly from the factory? It might be. Thanks for the info very useful thanks again! 👍👍👍
Single coils always hum, it might be your grounding too.
I DIDN'T KNOW CANDY CAPACITORS (THATS WHAT WE CALL THEM THEY WORK NICELY) HAD A POLARITY,is there a marking to orient us to its polarity?Wil wait for answer if possible,thanks.
do the WIMA box caps have an outside foil side like these? im new to making my own guitar FX pedals and now im wondering about all my builds up to this point if i got any backwards.
I am not sure how those are constructed. You might try cutting one open and looking at it.
just saying, I've built many overdrive pedals with WIMA box caps and they've all been pretty clean.
Big question. Can you tell the difference in tone in a blind test which guitar has the cap connected the wrong way?
Sure. In a non-shielded environment, the one with the cap going the other way will be noisier. This video isn't about tone, its about EM noise reduction.
Of course not, because there's no "wrong way" to connect a tone capacitor in a passive guitar circuit.
Thank you! I am building a blend pedal for my talk box and I didn't know why capacitors are sometimes used in these circuits. What value cap would you suggest for it?
I'd recommend whatever is in the schematic.
@@DrewsGuitarShop I am designing and building this myself. I am concerned that the blend pedal will not have enough signal output. Not sure how to proceed.
@@GarysBBQSupplies I'm not sure how the cap would figure into something that is doing blending. Generally thats done with a pair of variable resisters, at least in the context I normally see them. I don't work on pedals or amps, so It might be out of my wheelhouse, but offhand, I'd say that I'd be looking at resisters or maybe even some kind of rheostat. A sewing machine pedal might be able to be repurposed or something like it. All a cap is going to do in an audio circuit is filter frequencies either as a low pass or high pass filter.
If worse comes to worse, you can always cargo cult something that works and base any mods you do off that working model. Try different value components, arrangements etc. I'm sure someone somewhere has chopped something like that up and put up a block diagram somewhere based on what they found inside or posted their own design.
I see. So, no need for a Cap. I am using a blend pot already so I will check it out and see how it works. Thanks for your help. :)
Uauuuu# excellence.....
🤘🏻 🌟 🤘
on modern capacitors the live side has longer wire.
This is only true on electrolytic capacitors as far as I know, which should not be used for tone caps in guitars.
Can you explain how you're testing it using the output jack? I am not great with electronics. Is it safe?
The first question is the topic of the video, the second, it's safe.
In regards to EM interface, wouldn't a Faraday Cage prevent this - which is something I do in all my guitars .
Faraday cage is impossible to achieve in a guitar because the pickup magnets stick out of the body hence not a Faraday cage. There's a great video by Dylantalkstone that goes into further detail about this
Your best bet to combat EM interference is to: get good quality pickups, shield the pickup cavities and clean up your signal chain.
@@derusmares9508 yeah it isn't technically a Faraday cage because of the lack of complete coverage - instead it works by sheilding from the frequencies to a better extent than without.
You can't shield some guitars. Imagine trying to shield the inside of an ES-335 or the like. Sometimes you have to rely on the wires and components to do that job and in those cases, the cap can be a big deal.
hello what kind of amp did you use for this tes because on my guitar amp I touch the cap in both direction and I can ear anything, only if I touch the wire???
Are you touching the metal of the plug? If you do that you wont hear anything.
Can you tell by the printed side of the orange drop?
Unfortunately, no.
👍
Some caps that have a polarity have different length leads.
These do not.
Sorry I’m a little slow 😅 S, when I touch the cap and I hear noise through the amp, that’s the ground lead I want soldered to the ground of the pot?
If touching it causes it to buzz, you have the hot lead on the ground side of the cap.
orange caps have writing on them. isnt one side always the hot side? Left or right of the writing?
Unfortunately not as far as I have seen.
Orange Drops: Busting Tone Control Capacitor Myths!
By Craig Anderton, Gibson Brands
Featured Products
CDE 225P Orange Drop® Capacitors
CDE 715P Orange Drop® Capacitors
Featured Suppliers
Cornell Dubilier
Applications
Audio
The Internet is a great source of information... and a great source of misinformation, even for something as seemingly simple as tone control capacitors.
Some of Gibson's 2014 model year guitars use Orange Drop capacitors (Fig. 1). Stroll around the net, and some folks say Orange Drop capacitors are the magic ingredient for vintage tone, while others say "designer" capacitors are just hype-as long as the value meets the spec, it doesn't matter what you use.
Various Orange Drop capacitors
Figure 1: Various Orange Drop capacitors
Actually, there's a very good reason why Gibson chose Orange Drops, as well as other quality capacitors for the 2014 model year guitars... but it may not be the reason you think. We'll explain why after we bust some myths.
Tone control capacitors roll off high frequencies.
This is true, but it's only half the story. When rolling a tone control all the way back, the capacitor forms a resonant circuit with the pickup that provides a midrange boost (Fig. 2). The volume control, cable, and amp can damp this peak somewhat; but feeding a high-impedance input (onboard preamp, buffer board, an audio interface's high-impedance "guitar" input, etc.) retains this peak.
Sonar's QuadCurve EQ
Figure 2: To emulate the effect of a tone control with an equalizer such as Sonar's QuadCurve EQ, it's necessary to add a resonant peak- not just remove highs.
All capacitors with the same value are the same.
Nope. Even ceramic capacitors aren't the same-there are two different ceramic capacitor classes, and the value can be consistent within 1% for expensive types or vary from +80/-20% for cheapos (as often found in knock-off guitars). Capacitance can also vary with frequency, temperature, and applied voltage; some ceramic capacitors are even somewhat microphonic. If your guitar uses a ceramic capacitor for its tone control and you think your guitar sounds different under stage lights then when you're offstage, you're probably right.
Replacing a high-quality modern capacitor with a "vintage" capacitor can have a profound effect on tone.
This may very well be true-but only because the values are likely slightly different, thereby creating a different resonant frequency when paired with your pickup.
People like Orange Drop capacitors because of the placebo effect.
Actually, there's a technical reason for choosing Orange Drop capacitors. Sprague was a leading name in capacitors, and in the mid-20th century produced capacitors for industry, the military, and aerospace. The Orange Drop capacitor line introduced in the 60s heralded the capacitors of the modern era-with stability, resistance to temperature variation, low moisture absorption, excellent characteristics in AC circuits, no microphonics, and other desirable attributes. (The technology can also handle high voltages, making them well-suited to tube amps.) Cornell Dubilier (CDE), another high-quality capacitor manufacturer, acquired the Orange Drop line from Sprague in late 2012.
For Gibson's guitars, Orange Drop capacitors provide the stability and precision-therefore, consistent tone-that professionals expect. Other precision capacitors would be suitable, but Orange Drop capacitors have a well-deserved reputation for quality that has proven itself for close to half a century. With a track record like that, Orange Drop capacitors were consistent with Gibson's intention to make the 2014 line of guitars and basses the finest musical instruments Gibson has ever produced.
Copyright 2014 by Gibson Brands and reprinted with permission. For more information on Gibson Brands, please visit gibson.com.
Sir Carlson, shows doing it with a oscilloscope. I dont have , How else can I test it, With a multimeter
Brian, that is what I show here in this video. It's not a multimeter, you use an amp and your fingers.
thank you for your Reply
how would you do it for 50s wiring since the center lug is soldered to the "cover" for grounding?
One side will still be a path to ground.
@@DrewsGuitarShop i appreciate you taking the time to answer, but that doesnt help too much.
@@SD-nj1cy Sorry, I'll try to put it another way. So, one lead on the cap will be soldered to the volume pot, that is your signal end. The other lead will be connected with your tone pot, that is your ground end. I do not prefer to do that method of wiring because it is less modular and easy to mod at a later time but I understand wanting to do it that way.
@@DrewsGuitarShop thank you. I thought there was a way/you were trying to describe a way using 50s wiring but only use a wire from lug 2 on vol pot, to lug 3 on tone pot(1st lug when they're facing each other), and then the tone cap from the tone pot lug 2 to the pot housing (ground). Know what each lug does, that didnt make sense. Thank you again for taking the time to answer.
this is confusing but it seems you have the Red (Hot) clip wired to the ground on the jack and Black (Ground) clip wired to the Tip. Doesn't that reverse what you're doing.
When your tip is wired to the outside foil, it will hum when you touch it letting you know that it needs to be flipped around.
i do not have a tone knob
Is it the same for Ceramic caps?
No but those are not the best for this application IMO.
☺️
If you want to demonstrate this is an issue, you should wire a pot in a guitar up in a noisy environment in a way you can change the polarity back and forth. The fact you can see something on an oscilloscope or hear a hum when you touch it naked is not necessarily relevant for the real world.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ if it matters to you, it matters. I am just putting the info out there. I'd say it would matter most in a situation like an archtop were you were using shielded wire, but were unable to shield the cavity.
is it NOT marked on the Orange drop??? =/ I mean a simple + / - symbol would SOLVE this confusion
I watched this video after watching Dr. Carlson's Lab. The guy is definitely knowledgeable. But I think this really ends up being nothing more than a cool little science experiment that, in the end, really isn't relevant. A solution to a problem that just doesn't exist. I'd like to see someone take an amplifier and purposely put all the non-electrolytic caps in "backwards" then take them out and put them in "correctly" and see how much of a decrease in the noise floor would be. I would be surprised if it was more than 0.01% of a decibel. If this was truly an issue, manufacturers of these capacitors would be marking them by now.
To add to this, no current should be actually crossing the dielectric portion of the cap. They do not "dump" or "jump" electrons across the gap. If the cap does this it is failing. Any current that "passes" through the cap is purely from charging or discharging either during an initial DC voltage being applied or removed, or an AC signal being applied.
@@raezzordaze8021 It's a simplification for the sake of the video topic. For those that want a deeper dive, I would recommend this video by The Science Asylum: ruclips.net/video/zYRx6Zub3cA/видео.html
does it actually make any difference to the sound of the guitar though?
No aside from helping to eliminate noise. The cap will function as a cap in either direction.
@@DrewsGuitarShop ah ok thanks! so does it make enough difference eliminating noise to make it worth doing?
We just want to know what's the negative side ❓ for those of us that are not tech savvy
I too am curious to know if they are all printed with the text on the same side and if all of them are the same as this one
@@lysergic1652 They are not.
You mean to say the direction of these capacitors isn't standardized in relation to the print? You have to test every single one to find out? Wow, that sucks.
Great video. But I have some constructive criticism. It took you 9 minutes to get to the point of the video.
It's best to be thorough.
Yeah who wants to actually learn why it works! as opposed to just what orientation to put them? 🤔
Polarized capacitors are labeled so you can install them correctly.
True, but that’s not the point of this guide. If you watched the whole video, it explains how the physical configuration of Orange Drop caps and their installation can affect interference. It’s not about polarity, it’s about EM insulation.
@@LeftyPem Early in the video he mentioned polarized capacitors exploding if they were wired wrong, but what would be the results if the capacitor was installed in the guitar and grounded?
@@LeftyPem Where is the interference coming from once installed and everything is grounded? If you notice, there was no interference before it touched it.
@@rong648 I’m guessing it has something to do with the orientation of the external shield and how it’s configured, but I’ve never really thought too much about non polar caps since I’ve never really dealt with any interference from them up to this point
@@DoktrDub Polarized Capacitors are the ones that have specific positive and negative polarities. While using these capacitors in circuits, it should always be taken care that they are connected in perfect polarities.
Did you say don't put this in my guitar ??
Im not sure how you got that takeaway from this video, but no.
I think that's where he was talking about a different type of capacitor, not the orange drop.
Why is this song and dance needed to determine the orientation? If the manufacturers just marked the bloody things in the first place this hassle would not be needed.
profit motive
The manufacturer would have to test each capacitor and then mark it. That's two more steps. Every step adds cost to the product that they'd have to pass to their customers. Not all of which are using the component in a sensitive signal application. So they'd be paying for a feature they don't need. They'd go buy cheaper parts elsewhere.
This has been discussed extensively at least 25 years ago on the web guitar forums, etc.
NOTHING NEW..
What's good here is that you acknowledge and perpetuate that caps are directional.
The capacitor is not directional but it will pick up noise more in one orientation than the other.
@@1pcfred
Save it for someone else..
👎
@@amoruzz save what? Simple explanations? Film capacitors are not polarized devices. But one lead is going to be connected to the outer foil. So that foil is going to shield the other lead and also act like an antenna itself. The capacitor will work connected either way. One way it is just going to pick up noise more.
@@1pcfred
Please.. Just stop already.
Have a 🌭
@@amoruzz you just do not seem to know.
No sound ??
Sounds like a problem on your end. I double checked the audio on the vid and its fine.
The orientation doesn't matter. Its going to sound the same
It doesn’t matter purely electronically, but he showed very clearly that for audio, it makes a difference. I do believe he made a mistake calling the Jack “output” as it obviously was INPUT to the amplifier. Also, put me on edge that he had the leads so close together (even though not dangerous, it’s SOP to make sure they are apart)
@@shader26 Nope. Its voodoo smoodoo. If it really made a difference a lot more people would be talking about it. I've been in electronics for 30 years
@@PhuckHue2 Then explain the difference you can actually hear.if you’ve been in electronics for 30 years, you know then abou approximations. That components are considered for their main attribute. But in reality they most often if not always have secondary and more attributes. Just as it’s fine to consider it as it’s ideal, a resistor has also for example capacitance. Etc. There is leakage, on diodes, transistors, etc. etc. nothing is IDEAL! So yeah, electrolytic are caps that have a dedicated orientation. But you are ignoring the evidence right before your ears. When it comes to audio, and the levels of amplification of guitar amps (which take a couple hundred millivolts up so much) the secondary and other factor can play a role. It may well be that the outer foil is more sensitive to the outer body of the cap in these kinds of caps for some reason. Maybe it doesn’t matter in that you aren’t touching th cap when it is in the guitar, except it can mean more susceptible to noise, which again, you can clearly hear in this video. I’ve been in electronics since I went to school do it in ‘89. Open your mind a little. You can still learn and you ought to be interested in what is causing the effect.
@@shader26 lol have a nice day
Metal Film Caps are Bidirectional. They have no polarity. So it really does not matter which way you put them. They will only capacitate the amount shown on them regardless of orientation.
It will work as a capacitor in either direction however the outside foil layer will not have any shielding properties unless that side goes to ground.
"Capacitate"..... 🙄😂
You must be an injuneer... 😏
You obviously didn't bother to look at the video.... btw, Paul (Mr.) Carlson also agrees with this and in fact has a video showing how HE tests for this characteristic...
@@DrewsGuitarShop the exterior jacket is designed to be shielding according to its datasheet.
@@peterfitzpatrick7032 Not an engineer but I am a musician with a vast knowledge of electronics and repairing them.
This is fine for guitar tone caps going to signal ground, but the essential aspect of cap orientation is that the outside foil should go to the end with the lower impedance. Hence when used as a coupling cap the outside foil should go to the side with high voltage, which has lower impedance while the other end should go toward the grid/signal input of the following stage.
Polarity matters
There is no gap jump hey do not work as explained.
It's a simplification for the sake of the video topic. For those that want a deeper dive, I would recommend this video by The Science Asylum: ruclips.net/video/zYRx6Zub3cA/видео.html
Installing orange drop capacitors in the correct orientation: step 1 - there's no incorrect orientation. All the pseudo-expert talk about difference in EMI is just nonsense and placebo.
I'm not sure how EMI is nonesense. I used to like demonstrating how you could find the nob and tube wiring in one of my old shops to customers with unshielded Strats.
@@DrewsGuitarShop I don't see where I said EMI is nonsense (if you see me saying that, please quote, thanks). EMI is certainly way overblown among guitar people, especially when they explain the ways to prevent it (I wish I had a penny for every time I saw someone explain that you have to make a Faraday cage in your guitar or something like that), but it is definitely a thing. I said your pseudo-expert talk about the capacitor orientation making a difference (be it from the point of EMI or otherwise) is nonsense.
Which it is, because there's no such thing as a correct orientation of a capacitor in a guitar tone circuit. Not because of EMI or anything else. And rightly so, because it also makes absolutely zero sense from the theoretical perspective there should be one. You're not changing *anything* electrically by turning the capacitor the opposite way.
Anyone hearing an actual difference between different tone capacitor orientations is yet another victim of our lovely friend the placebo effect, already so well acquainted with most people in (not just) audio community and especially the guitar community. And if there was a blind test done, nobody would be able to tell the polarity of the cap.
Great info, but you say 'uh' or 'um' every 3 seconds
Working on it.
BS...
what is?
It’s demonstrably not. Follow the link in the describing to McCarlsons lab to see this done with an oscilloscope. You can literally see it, even if you can’t hear the difference in noise I’m demonstrating in this vid. If you would like to argue the point, I’d like to see your demonstration. I’m open to being wrong here but I gotta say, this is one of my more well researched videos and the effect I am demonstrating is literally part of the orange drop capacitor design as it was meant to be a direct modern replacement for foil and oil caps used in older audio equipment. The outside foil lead was marked on those caps for this very reason.
By no means bs. Element is designed asymmetrically, so it matters which lead should be grounded. Another question is it really makes a difference in shielded cavity…
@@grimoirworkshop6623 That is a good question. My thinking on it is that the cavity shielding is always prone to small leaks and I will take every opportunity to quiet down a guitar and that since I tend to wire my pots in a modular fashion, I'd like to think that if that tone pot was canabalized in the future and put into a guitar that wasn't shielded that it would be nice if it was wired in right. You are right though that it would matter a lot less.
I agree. Its voodoo electronics
on our 1/4 plug , is the sleeve the "hot" lead ? , and the "tip" is negative ?
Tip is positive. If you look at a guitar amp schematic it will show the tip as positive and sleeve as negative.
Sleeve always goes to ground because sleeve is part of the shielding system talked about in the video.