If you add wastegates to the compressor outlet side it is possible you could eliminate the surge by opening the gate slightly to control the boost you leave at while also increasing the flow to get the compressor back to the flow rate it is happy. A fairly small gate like a 25mm would probably work best so it doesn’t cause too big a swings in the pressure when it is opening and closing.
Reason number 1 Steve is winning at life, he has a super fast wagon but.....but he has a lovely wife who can cook, clean, race a fast car, set his wheelie bars and pack the chutes. That a big win if you ask me.
@@AB-80X I know that she's not a housewife from the 40's genius i'm just saying she posses qualities of a normal wife and the qualities of a badass wife so steve wins at home, the business and the track. Did you think I was trying to be disrespectful or rude towards her? If so I wasn't
I fkn dig Steve morris vids n comments section.. so many ppl brought together sharing n brainstorming knowledge eager to keep leveling up.. you’ve created somethin awesome Steve!
7:55 Reason number 1,352,768 why I enjoy wadchin Steve Morris… the candid openness even if it’s in favor of anybody else. “I really like racing Dave, Dave’s been a friend for a long time. I like racing that car, cause, when that car’s on, it’s faster than I am, period.” Most ppl would say something along the lines of, “I like racing that car because our cars are competitive pretty evenly or they’ll win if my car isn’t perfectly dialed with a tune and I’m not on top of my game blastin off the tree.” It’s typically spoken like the outcome is all dependent on themselves, not variables of the other drivers or cars. Of course one should feel like they can beat the competition and win the race, but there’s always someone out there that’s also faster than oneself. And it’s okay to admit that. Side note, Steve should have worn the NOPE shirt for Dave 😂 😂
Steve, I've watched so many of your videos I think I should be on the pay roll. Glad to see no major breaking stuff. Looks like you are having fun again.
Damn! That pass at 15:00 ish in was a rip! Seeing the chutes fly out… hell yeah! Thing was working! Glad to see the wastegate dumps are now neighbors with the bull horns now!
Lol I was thinking the same thing. I saw it fly back at the launch and then wasn't sure if that was it pinned against the seat until it fell down when he let off lol
Do an extra chassis inspection. All this new stopping power might cause other stress issues. I know you probably already do it after every event this is just a reminder.. I enjoy your content.
You can bypass some of the compessor flow back to the compressor inlet and it will push the compressor operating point to the right of the surge line of the compressor. You could use a solnoid operated valve controlled by the engine controller to close the bypass valves when you the engine up in rpm (flow rate).
@@danmyers9372it would not need a check valve the bypass allows the compressor to see more massflow than the engine consumes and will shift the operating point to the right on the compressor map. A simpler solution would be to put a smaller trim on that centers the engine's natural breathing line in the map. But that is sometimes hard to do without choking at the top end of the engine's breathing line.
I remember seeing a setup on youtube or fbook, cant remember where but it was twin with both charge pipes Y'ing in right at the throttle body w/blowoffs on both charge pipes. Before the Y it had a crossover with some kind of elecronic valve and i commented to ask what it was, if it was another blowoff or what and his reply was "its to counter surge"
@stevenbelue5496 on my car I run a bosch dbw throttle body vented to atmosphere to correct surge, I have a detailed dyno video on my Chanel "never lift" but I play with baby motors compared to Steve lol
I really enjoy hearing your process to reduce surge, I worked in an industrial gas plant with huge centrifugal compressors. When we were starting the plants up establishing process flow we would run into surge issues but we would just vent some of the discharge flow to eliminate surge til the down stream process was stable. Great stuff to watch.
Great job Steve!! The wagon is getting dialed in!!! Awesome video as always. Ever video I learn about, what it looks looks like to race a 4000 hp car. Bad ass SMX!!!
Val is sooooo awesome! Measuring the wheelie bar height! Can't wait to see her/yalls new car KSR is building along with your engine! It might even stop the earth from spinning for a split second with the launch power!
@@MarkWilliams-lf5tc- That’s not a fair/accurate statement about KSR. Garrett has been overpowering the chassis in Mullett simply because it was never designed/built to go as fast as it has been going. The chassis doesn’t even have any rear down bars! Kevin 100% knows how to build a faster chassis. Garrett didn’t want any rear down bars as he thought it spoiled the look of the car. Without those rear bars the chassis lacks the stiffness it needs to handle the power of the SMX. The Camaro he is building for Val has all the bars needed to handle the power of the SMX.
@@MarkWilliams-lf5tc I don't see you building any drag cars let alone knowing how to so kindly keep your mouth shut and let the guys who do this for a living do their thing instead of running around spreading false info and narratives when you clearly know absolutely nothing you're talking about
@@MarkWilliams-lf5tc Mullet was built to be a Big block car 2500hp or so. wasn't ever intended to hold down the 3500+ the SMX could give it. Kevin and Steve discussed that very subject in a recent video. The Camaro was already being built for an SMX in the future and then when Val took it over it Steve made sure Kevin was making her a BBA (Billy Bad Ass). Kevin builds what the customer wants. If you were watching before it became mullet it was gonna be a jet car but Cleetus made the wise choice to stick with a conventional drag and drive set-up.
Compressor bypass valve to recirculate back to inlet would eliminate the surge issue. Either that or need a smaller compressor that will allow the pressure you want at lower mass flow (so it doesn’t fall off the left side of the map).
The 3 Step Turbo Surge, Once on the Trans brake you drop the timing down to 1 or 2 degrees BTDC to build boost. IT works because you put a more heat and unburned fuel into the turbo hot side. Why not try dropping to 3, 4 or 5 degrees BTDC. This should take some of the heat out of the hot side and hopefully eliminate the Turbo Surge? Note, less forced air into the engine on the cold side.
I love your station wagon. My dad sold me the 85 ford Ltd wagon after I got out if the army. He made me fix the muffler ( i didn't agree with him because it sounded cool) I traded it in on my Camaro but I came to regret it years later because I had this idea to put a mustang engine in it. With all that said I love seeing a wagon going down the drag strip.
With electricity you are a capacitor to smooth ripple. With water you add an expansion chamber to smooth pressure fluctuations. It would seem that you need to build a place between the turbo and the intake that can expand a small amount and be able collapse fast enough to smooth out the surge. In water systems they add extra pipe at the faucet so when you shut off the water the pipes don’t bang when you shut off the water. Hope this makes some kind of sense.
Sorry you're having trouble getting your car dialed in. If anyone else was going to win, being a Canadian, I'm glad it was Shroeder. It doesn't hurt that his car looks so good. Also, very glad to see him back with his car rebuilt.
Great video! You build a motor that is one of the best out there. That in itself says it all. Keep up the outstanding brand you are building with and for your son. Good people are hard to find these days. Thanks for all the hard work that you put in to make these short videos.
Maybe you need a re-circ valve around the compressor. That's what jet engines use. Also big natural gas compression stations on pipelines use the same thing. They can predict surge conditions and control the surge. I used to build natural gas pipelines.
Hey Steve. Potential fix for your surge problem. Add a small throttle body to your cold side that can crack open on the 2 step. You can bypass some of that air to keeo the turbos happy and still hit your target boost level. It's supposedly what is happening in high power rally cars
Know why cylinder 2 is 800 degrees colder leaving the line? And clean the fuel map up coming off the brake Also try putting the timing back in when you get to launch boost on the 2/3 step, this can help calm down the engine and boost
If the boost controller uses PID (proportional, integral, derivative) for tuning control, too high a proportional setting will cause oscillations. It's sort of like applying too much corrective steering input when the car starts going sideways...instead of just straightening the car out, it starts sliding the other direction, and the side to side will keep getting worse until the car spins. If the new turbos have lighter compressor/exhaust turbine spinning assy, that will exacerbate the oscillations, as the turbine will accel/decel quicker, needing a lower proportional setting.
Here is a red hot tip for the fuel cap problem you had. When you take a cap off (fuel, oil, coolant) Always put it in the area that the bonnet catch has to pass through to close. Even if its ontop of one of the zeus clip posts. Will never be able to get forget it again.
Is that turbo surge basically the same as a supercharger surge? When the engine forces air then the engine doesn’t need it and it surges and then falls? Just more exaggerated on a charger than a turbo?
Your wagon is impressive to run 4:29's @ 3600lbs, and buddys new Vette is only 2600 lb, thats crazy light for a drag and drive car, that thing should run in the 3's once he gets it dialed in. Thanks for the video's steve, very educational.
That vette from North of the boarder is fast and straight , Steve is on the start of dementia ,how in hell do you forget fuel cap .Just kidding that wagon is it's way to the 5 barrier ,just a few bugs to go.
Hey Steve I had the same issue with our PDRA outlaw 10.5 MUSTANG that goes 3.90s@205 on a 10” tire. I run an all billet 540 twin 94mm turbos on m1 & fueltech. We had the same issue and I did everything u can imagine and what solved our issues was the inlet tubes going to the turbos I had to cut back away from the turbo 5”. The turbos want more air and can’t grab enough throu the inlet tubes. Just a thought and figured I’d give u a heads up. It fixed my issues and I also run the egate now ….. so far it’s promising. Goodluck 👍🏻
I think if you were to put the blow off valve on the intake it might solve your issue. When the blow off valve opens it’s evacuating the pressurized air in the system until it reaches the point where it can no longer overcome the strength of the spring. With it being on the charge pipes, it’s pulling all the air from everywhere before and after that point to normalize the pressure. If you have it on the intake its self, it won’t try to push back into the pipes to normalize. Instead it will stay in the intake. It’s just a thought, I’m not tuner, nor am I an engine builder. From my very basic understanding of physics and aerodynamics that’s what I think may be causing the surge.
Curious do those turbos have map grooves or are they plain entry? The addition of grooves if they don’t have them likely would help a lot. I imagine the harts didn’t have them because I know Brandon doesn’t like them. I cut grooves in Harts chargers all the time for tractor pullers because they won’t lug well when engine speed goes down because of compressor surge/stall
You might have thought of this already but, adding "boost-gates" to bleed boost on the start line and push the turbine speed past the surge line will probably do wonders for the wagon 👌🏻
I wonder if the surge would go away if you used a throttle stop instead of a two step. Two step signal in the exhaust side may be making turbo unhappy. I used to be a throttle stop racer back when we could use stutter boxes to control ET.
I'm sure that I have read they use electronic blow off valves to reduce compressor surge in World Time Attack. Not sure if it would be possible in a drag racing application but worth a shot.
Steve, take a look at your blow-off valves. I've seen harmonics in their springs, similar to your engine valve spring issue. Not to the point of damaging it, but where it's unable to stop harmonics from happening. Several times if there's a single spring, replace it with dual ones, or vice-versa. That will stop the "bouncing" of the valves that can happen at certain boost requested pressures vs. generated pressures. Also you can try a softer spring and use the CO2 to offset the spring, if you can get enough total boost with the CO2.
I'd be looking hard at what's going on before the turbo. Turbos are not complicated. They pump air. Air has to get to them. The flow of air changes with rpm of the impeller and the air its using. You could well have a pressure wave that you can't see but it interferes with smooth operation. I think playing around with horns of different lengths/shapes feeding air into the turbo. You can tune the hell out of it and improve but it's like putting lipstick on a pig. It's still a pig. Just try in your mind how much air you pulling into the turbo every second. Probably more than 50gal barrel every second thru each turbo at 5000 at no boost. Now call for boost and it's got to suck a tremendous amount thru. The moment it pulses pressure changes everywhere in the system. That's what you're fighting.
Freer flowing turbine wheels to increase airflow through the engine by decreasing back pressure at the cost of spool up? ETA; and maybe an intake manifold with a large reservoir to act as a bit of a buffer… that is if you want to keep the compressor setup the same on the turbos. Just this amateurs thoughts.
Soooo.. is it time for the Steve Morris SMX invitational series yet? Anyone with an SMX runs 5 different events using a point system. Car or class does not matter. At the end of the "season" top 5 points cars run a double elimination event. Each driver must recruit two sponsors as their entry fee to put up a prize package and some level of money. The prizes get distributed to the winners the money goes to a charity of the winning teams choice. EDIT: Maybe get the tracks to put up 1% of the gate on races days into the cash pool as well?
Can you bleed off that excess pressure from the inlet pipe. I have seen valves that open when the throttle is closed and the turbo is pumping air with no place to go. All that computer jiz should give you some way to bleed off based on time or pressure or some other factor.
jett racing 4G63T has compound turbo set up uses eclectic wastegate on the cold side piping to bleed off the boost in the turbo compressor map area to stop it.
To run a 1.08 1.07 60 with a 3600lb car is bad ass. Heck back in 2010 I thought I was doing good to run a 1.08 with a 2350lb car lol! I wished I could have driven a sub 1 second 60 car.
Ok, so smaller turbo to stop the surge under these conditions... Would an e-throttle in front of each turbo let you program the amount of air going into the turbo during staging? Obviously you still need the main mechanical throttle for safety, but would that idea work?
Any chance that you’re gonna race the “Outlaw Big Tire Class” in the NPK race @ US 131 on Sep 27-28? It sure would be really cool to see the wagon line up beside some of them.
Is it possible that you could be experiencing exhaust or intake reverberation? On hotrod Harley's I've seen that a bunch. The pipes just don't jive with the engine. Our way of testing that was with what we called a torque cone (a cone installed against the head before the exhaust pipes, that would stop the "echo" of the exhaust from hitting the valve and slowing down flow. I'm sure it works the same from the intake side with a turbo application, but I'm never seen it on the intake side on Vtwin engines (only inline 4 cylinders) Most of the time the fix was a longer intake runner or longer exhaust pipes. Even just minimal amounts make a big difference.
Dave is hilarious as most you all are. Even though this racing is above what most all of us could ever reach y'all still pretty normal guys. Go Northeast
Guy really knows how to make the light. He is not the one to play on the line with. Each pass I think he made the light go his way. Need to work on that! lol!! Good times
Boost surge. Are you using CO2 to control the waste gate? If so, I wonder of the solenoid valve is slow to respond and that is causing the issue. Also, if the bottle regulator is single stage, they tend not to regulate pressure very well where as two stage regulators provide a more stable pressure.
40 minutes is not too long. All the explanations and tech that comes with it is awesome.
ya I dont fall asleep with Steves videos
That's why I watch/listen.
I love how transparent he is and shares how to fix it properly. Absolutely love this guy
Man it is insane to see a 3600lb wagon running like that. Imagine 1000lbs out of that thing it would be a 3 second 1/8th or 5 second 1/4 bracket car.😮
For all the success Dave has had, there is very little coverage about him or the car.
Thanks for including Dave and the car in a vid
If you add wastegates to the compressor outlet side it is possible you could eliminate the surge by opening the gate slightly to control the boost you leave at while also increasing the flow to get the compressor back to the flow rate it is happy. A fairly small gate like a 25mm would probably work best so it doesn’t cause too big a swings in the pressure when it is opening and closing.
Thank you for including me in the race. We sure had a great time with you all !!!
It was a blast for us spectators to watch you guys having fun and doing some great racing!
Reason number 1 Steve is winning at life, he has a super fast wagon but.....but he has a lovely wife who can cook, clean, race a fast car, set his wheelie bars and pack the chutes. That a big win if you ask me.
Cook and clean? What are you talking about? She's not a housewife from the 40's. She works at the company.
How do you know she can cook? Or that she cleans? Simmer down with the simpin
@@AB-80X I know that she's not a housewife from the 40's genius i'm just saying she posses qualities of a normal wife and the qualities of a badass wife so steve wins at home, the business and the track. Did you think I was trying to be disrespectful or rude towards her? If so I wasn't
@AB-80X who cooks and cleans then? Guy made a positive comment. You are just being ignorant. J swap Jason
She's probably the last of her kind..
Steve is proof that persistence and passion pays off big time!
the real heros do it without funny handshakes
That was great to see you guys out on the drag strip. Man Dave’s car is so fast out the hole nice to see his new car working well.
I fkn dig Steve morris vids n comments section.. so many ppl brought together sharing n brainstorming knowledge eager to keep leveling up.. you’ve created somethin awesome Steve!
Thanks for taking us along Steve and team
It is crazy the amount of force on the tires, seeing them just folding like that will always amaze me.
The tires mainly do that because they have like 5 to 10lbs of air in them, essentially they r flat.
The banter and fun all y'all have in that group are so great! 👍😄
7:55 Reason number 1,352,768 why I enjoy wadchin Steve Morris… the candid openness even if it’s in favor of anybody else. “I really like racing Dave, Dave’s been a friend for a long time. I like racing that car, cause, when that car’s on, it’s faster than I am, period.”
Most ppl would say something along the lines of, “I like racing that car because our cars are competitive pretty evenly or they’ll win if my car isn’t perfectly dialed with a tune and I’m not on top of my game blastin off the tree.” It’s typically spoken like the outcome is all dependent on themselves, not variables of the other drivers or cars. Of course one should feel like they can beat the competition and win the race, but there’s always someone out there that’s also faster than oneself. And it’s okay to admit that.
Side note, Steve should have worn the NOPE shirt for Dave 😂 😂
NOS SMOKED U HAHA 4.09
Steve, I've watched so many of your videos I think I should be on the pay roll.
Glad to see no major breaking stuff. Looks like you are having fun again.
At 10:10 there is green "ticket" that flies from the footwell and gets pinned against the seat back for the whole ride. Looked like a fun perspective.
Damn! That pass at 15:00 ish in was a rip!
Seeing the chutes fly out… hell yeah! Thing was working!
Glad to see the wastegate dumps are now neighbors with the bull horns now!
10:10 It was cool seeing the G forces hold that badge against the passenger seat 😮
Lol I was thinking the same thing. I saw it fly back at the launch and then wasn't sure if that was it pinned against the seat until it fell down when he let off lol
@@Berm_Blasterit was, it was.
Do an extra chassis inspection. All this new stopping power might cause other stress issues. I know you probably already do it after every event this is just a reminder.. I enjoy your content.
You can bypass some of the compessor flow back to the compressor inlet and it will push the compressor operating point to the right of the surge line of the compressor. You could use a solnoid operated valve controlled by the engine controller to close the bypass valves when you the engine up in rpm (flow rate).
Would that be a one way type of valve? Only released flow going back towards the compressor?
@@danmyers9372it would not need a check valve the bypass allows the compressor to see more massflow than the engine consumes and will shift the operating point to the right on the compressor map. A simpler solution would be to put a smaller trim on that centers the engine's natural breathing line in the map. But that is sometimes hard to do without choking at the top end of the engine's breathing line.
I remember seeing a setup on youtube or fbook, cant remember where but it was twin with both charge pipes Y'ing in right at the throttle body w/blowoffs on both charge pipes. Before the Y it had a crossover with some kind of elecronic valve and i commented to ask what it was, if it was another blowoff or what and his reply was "its to counter surge"
@stevenbelue5496 on my car I run a bosch dbw throttle body vented to atmosphere to correct surge, I have a detailed dyno video on my Chanel "never lift" but I play with baby motors compared to Steve lol
I love the way that Corvette looks.
I really enjoy hearing your process to reduce surge, I worked in an industrial gas plant with huge centrifugal compressors. When we were starting the plants up establishing process flow we would run into surge issues but we would just vent some of the discharge flow to eliminate surge til the down stream process was stable. Great stuff to watch.
Great job Steve!! The wagon is getting dialed in!!!
Awesome video as always. Ever video I learn about, what it looks looks like to race a 4000 hp car.
Bad ass SMX!!!
Val is sooooo awesome! Measuring the wheelie bar height! Can't wait to see her/yalls new car KSR is building along with your engine! It might even stop the earth from spinning for a split second with the launch power!
Mullet was being broken up by the smx. Kevin built mullet wouldn’t you be having the same issue with another one of his builds?
she should be in the kitchen not at the track
@@MarkWilliams-lf5tc- That’s not a fair/accurate statement about KSR. Garrett has been overpowering the chassis in Mullett simply because it was never designed/built to go as fast as it has been going. The chassis doesn’t even have any rear down bars! Kevin 100% knows how to build a faster chassis. Garrett didn’t want any rear down bars as he thought it spoiled the look of the car. Without those rear bars the chassis lacks the stiffness it needs to handle the power of the SMX. The Camaro he is building for Val has all the bars needed to handle the power of the SMX.
@@MarkWilliams-lf5tc I don't see you building any drag cars let alone knowing how to so kindly keep your mouth shut and let the guys who do this for a living do their thing instead of running around spreading false info and narratives when you clearly know absolutely nothing you're talking about
@@MarkWilliams-lf5tc Mullet was built to be a Big block car 2500hp or so. wasn't ever intended to hold down the 3500+ the SMX could give it. Kevin and Steve discussed that very subject in a recent video. The Camaro was already being built for an SMX in the future and then when Val took it over it Steve made sure Kevin was making her a BBA (Billy Bad Ass). Kevin builds what the customer wants. If you were watching before it became mullet it was gonna be a jet car but Cleetus made the wise choice to stick with a conventional drag and drive set-up.
Compressor bypass valve to recirculate back to inlet would eliminate the surge issue. Either that or need a smaller compressor that will allow the pressure you want at lower mass flow (so it doesn’t fall off the left side of the map).
The 3 Step Turbo Surge, Once on the Trans brake you drop the timing down to 1 or 2 degrees BTDC to build boost. IT works because you put a more heat and unburned fuel into the turbo hot side. Why not try dropping to 3, 4 or 5 degrees BTDC. This should take some of the heat out of the hot side and hopefully eliminate the Turbo Surge? Note, less forced air into the engine on the cold side.
PS: Can't Wait to See the 1/2 Million Subscribers ! Hit the Subscribe Button People !
I love your station wagon. My dad sold me the 85 ford Ltd wagon after I got out if the army. He made me fix the muffler ( i didn't agree with him because it sounded cool) I traded it in on my Camaro but I came to regret it years later because I had this idea to put a mustang engine in it. With all that said I love seeing a wagon going down the drag strip.
With electricity you are a capacitor to smooth ripple. With water you add an expansion chamber to smooth pressure fluctuations. It would seem that you need to build a place between the turbo and the intake that can expand a small amount and be able collapse fast enough to smooth out the surge. In water systems they add extra pipe at the faucet so when you shut off the water the pipes don’t bang when you shut off the water. Hope this makes some kind of sense.
Sorry you're having trouble getting your car dialed in. If anyone else was going to win, being a Canadian, I'm glad it was Shroeder. It doesn't hurt that his car looks so good. Also, very glad to see him back with his car rebuilt.
So, Turbo reversion. maybe invent an anti-reversion wall in the boost pipe.
OMG, You should see the VIDEO KSR dropped on VAL's Car. The powder coat turned out amazing. It is looking great
Love the ride along and all the troubleshooting action!! Interesting stuff to see whats involved in top level racing.
Great video!
You build a motor that is one of the best out there.
That in itself says it all.
Keep up the outstanding brand you are building with and for your son.
Good people are hard to find these days.
Thanks for all the hard work that you put in to make these short videos.
Maybe you need a re-circ valve around the compressor. That's what jet engines use. Also big natural gas compression stations on pipelines use the same thing. They can predict surge conditions and control the surge. I used to build natural gas pipelines.
Steve, you are living your best life. 4 sizzle!
Hey Steve. Potential fix for your surge problem. Add a small throttle body to your cold side that can crack open on the 2 step. You can bypass some of that air to keeo the turbos happy and still hit your target boost level. It's supposedly what is happening in high power rally cars
Know why cylinder 2 is 800 degrees colder leaving the line?
And clean the fuel map up coming off the brake
Also try putting the timing back in when you get to launch boost on the 2/3 step, this can help calm down the engine and boost
Great to see you back on the track!
Love seeing that car running down the track!!
If the boost controller uses PID (proportional, integral, derivative) for tuning control, too high a proportional setting will cause oscillations. It's sort of like applying too much corrective steering input when the car starts going sideways...instead of just straightening the car out, it starts sliding the other direction, and the side to side will keep getting worse until the car spins. If the new turbos have lighter compressor/exhaust turbine spinning assy, that will exacerbate the oscillations, as the turbine will accel/decel quicker, needing a lower proportional setting.
Great to see the wagon doing laps and y’all having fun!
Here is a red hot tip for the fuel cap problem you had. When you take a cap off (fuel, oil, coolant) Always put it in the area that the bonnet catch has to pass through to close.
Even if its ontop of one of the zeus clip posts.
Will never be able to get forget it again.
Is that turbo surge basically the same as a supercharger surge?
When the engine forces air then the engine doesn’t need it and it surges and then falls?
Just more exaggerated on a charger than a turbo?
Looked like a "Yep" in the other lane to me. That Corvette is bad ass.
Your wagon is impressive to run 4:29's @ 3600lbs, and buddys new Vette is only 2600 lb, thats crazy light for a drag and drive car, that thing should run in the 3's once he gets it dialed in. Thanks for the video's steve, very educational.
Could you add more plenum volume or a resonance chamber on the charge pipe? I believe this would smooth your compressor surge.
That vette from North of the boarder is fast and straight , Steve is on the start of dementia ,how in hell do you forget fuel cap .Just kidding that wagon is it's way to the 5 barrier ,just a few bugs to go.
Hey Steve I had the same issue with our PDRA outlaw 10.5 MUSTANG that goes 3.90s@205 on a 10” tire. I run an all billet 540 twin 94mm turbos on m1 & fueltech. We had the same issue and I did everything u can imagine and what solved our issues was the inlet tubes going to the turbos I had to cut back away from the turbo 5”. The turbos want more air and can’t grab enough throu the inlet tubes. Just a thought and figured I’d give u a heads up. It fixed my issues and I also run the egate now ….. so far it’s promising. Goodluck 👍🏻
I think if you were to put the blow off valve on the intake it might solve your issue. When the blow off valve opens it’s evacuating the pressurized air in the system until it reaches the point where it can no longer overcome the strength of the spring. With it being on the charge pipes, it’s pulling all the air from everywhere before and after that point to normalize the pressure. If you have it on the intake its self, it won’t try to push back into the pipes to normalize. Instead it will stay in the intake. It’s just a thought, I’m not tuner, nor am I an engine builder. From my very basic understanding of physics and aerodynamics that’s what I think may be causing the surge.
Curious do those turbos have map grooves or are they plain entry? The addition of grooves if they don’t have them likely would help a lot. I imagine the harts didn’t have them because I know Brandon doesn’t like them. I cut grooves in Harts chargers all the time for tractor pullers because they won’t lug well when engine speed goes down because of compressor surge/stall
Great video , and so nice to see your family involved. Looking forward to more . Many thanks.
You might have thought of this already but, adding "boost-gates" to bleed boost on the start line and push the turbine speed past the surge line will probably do wonders for the wagon 👌🏻
Haha just saw you're already doing this 😂
Steve,family, and crew,y'all rock! ❤ Peace
I wonder if the surge would go away if you used a throttle stop instead of a two step. Two step signal in the exhaust side may be making turbo unhappy. I used to be a throttle stop racer back when we could use stutter boxes to control ET.
I'm sure that I have read they use electronic blow off valves to reduce compressor surge in World Time Attack. Not sure if it would be possible in a drag racing application but worth a shot.
Would closing your intake valve a little later help with the surge? Slam more air in the engine?
Cutting the tree that fine is golden..😂😂
Steve,wish I could have been there to shake your hand like I did in Cedar Rapids,you are my hero,love the wagon.
Next time!
Steve, take a look at your blow-off valves. I've seen harmonics in their springs, similar to your engine valve spring issue. Not to the point of damaging it, but where it's unable to stop harmonics from happening.
Several times if there's a single spring, replace it with dual ones, or vice-versa. That will stop the "bouncing" of the valves that can happen at certain boost requested pressures vs. generated pressures.
Also you can try a softer spring and use the CO2 to offset the spring, if you can get enough total boost with the CO2.
So glad Dave rebuilt a c7 in the same colour scheme! I painted a drag slash body to match.
The Dewey shirt is what made the video over the top. LOL Cheers!
Great episode be epic when you get a few thing's sorted PB coming soon 💨🚀
I'd be looking hard at what's going on before the turbo. Turbos are not complicated. They pump air. Air has to get to them. The flow of air changes with rpm of the impeller and the air its using. You could well have a pressure wave that you can't see but it interferes with smooth operation. I think playing around with horns of different lengths/shapes feeding air into the turbo. You can tune the hell out of it and improve but it's like putting lipstick on a pig. It's still a pig. Just try in your mind how much air you pulling into the turbo every second. Probably more than 50gal barrel every second thru each turbo at 5000 at no boost. Now call for boost and it's got to suck a tremendous amount thru. The moment it pulses pressure changes everywhere in the system. That's what you're fighting.
Checklists...checklists...checklists...also, put a programmable blowoff valve on a the cold side to manage the turbo surge.
Freer flowing turbine wheels to increase airflow through the engine by decreasing back pressure at the cost of spool up? ETA; and maybe an intake manifold with a large reservoir to act as a bit of a buffer… that is if you want to keep the compressor setup the same on the turbos. Just this amateurs thoughts.
"This time I have my second turbo hooked up."
Pfffffffhahaha, nice one Steve! 😂😂😂
What about adding an air bleed to the turbos when it’s on the two step can be controlled by a solenoid that closes when you let off the trans break
I was at that event on Saturday. It was a pleasure to watch see the wagon and watch it run. Hands down one of the cleanest passes I've seen!
Loved it man we want more of Steve doing things like this even if it’s not racing the wealth of knowledge will bring the people
Well done. No breakages and some nice fast runs. Loved watching it. Rex in NZ.
The wagon weighs 1000 pounds more than Schröders Corvette that’s a lot to overcome in the 8th mile
Soooo.. is it time for the Steve Morris SMX invitational series yet? Anyone with an SMX runs 5 different events using a point system. Car or class does not matter. At the end of the "season" top 5 points cars run a double elimination event. Each driver must recruit two sponsors as their entry fee to put up a prize package and some level of money. The prizes get distributed to the winners the money goes to a charity of the winning teams choice. EDIT: Maybe get the tracks to put up 1% of the gate on races days into the cash pool as well?
Can you bleed off that excess pressure from the inlet pipe. I have seen valves that open when the throttle is closed and the turbo is pumping air with no place to go. All that computer jiz should give you some way to bleed off based on time or pressure or some other factor.
Finish burnout, roll the electric windows down to clear the smoke, nice!
jett racing 4G63T has compound turbo set up uses eclectic wastegate on the cold side piping to bleed off the boost in the turbo compressor map area to stop it.
I do believe some drag racers are using wastegates on the cold side (just on the launch) for precisely this reason.
What about using e-gate on your inlet, ( keep the BOV) and if you run E-gates on your exhaust, you control everything without guessing.
Let’s learn something!
Caution, you might learn something lol
Nearly 500k subs. Gratz Steve!!
Great video, love the wagon! What backup camera and display setup is that? I’m needing something similar. Thanks, Mike.
Last time I saw Dave go down the track was on his lid. And I'm pretty sure the fine looking lady in his trailer had one of your shirts on .
Theres a little stickshift black S10 here in Wisconsin that likes running and beating SMX long roof 's!
To run a 1.08 1.07 60 with a 3600lb car is bad ass. Heck back in 2010 I thought I was doing good to run a 1.08 with a 2350lb car lol! I wished I could have driven a sub 1 second 60 car.
That SMX powered Monte Carlo is my all time fav drag and drive street monster 🥰🤙. Us Canadians aren’t just hockey champs 😝👌🇨🇦👊
Sounds like control boost on the cold side would help you surge problem.
What about using a cold side wastegate
Ok, so smaller turbo to stop the surge under these conditions... Would an e-throttle in front of each turbo let you program the amount of air going into the turbo during staging? Obviously you still need the main mechanical throttle for safety, but would that idea work?
Any chance that you’re gonna race the “Outlaw Big Tire Class” in the NPK race @ US 131 on Sep 27-28? It sure would be really cool to see the wagon line up beside some of them.
The slow npk cars are running 3.90s. It takes 3.70s to win a npk race, Steve's wagon is a drag and drive car.
Also no turbo car has won a npk race in years. Procharger Screwblower Nitrous has killed turbo cars in big tire 1/8 mile racing.
Is it possible that you could be experiencing exhaust or intake reverberation? On hotrod Harley's I've seen that a bunch. The pipes just don't jive with the engine. Our way of testing that was with what we called a torque cone (a cone installed against the head before the exhaust pipes, that would stop the "echo" of the exhaust from hitting the valve and slowing down flow. I'm sure it works the same from the intake side with a turbo application, but I'm never seen it on the intake side on Vtwin engines (only inline 4 cylinders) Most of the time the fix was a longer intake runner or longer exhaust pipes. Even just minimal amounts make a big difference.
Love how you show everything that's going on. I wish I could buy one of your engines! And i don't even have a car anymore??😮
Dave is hilarious as most you all are. Even though this racing is above what most all of us could ever reach y'all still pretty normal guys. Go Northeast
Guy really knows how to make the light. He is not the one to play on the line with. Each pass I think he made the light go his way. Need to work on that! lol!! Good times
So happy to see the C7 rebuilt and back at it!
Another awesome video Steve. Keen to see the next turbo surge video as I'm having the same issue.
Can you add an intake wastegate for staging?
funny that he ACTUALLY calls that car a station wagon🤣
just maybe in looks only is there any " station wagon " left in that car?
The body is all steel except for the hood, the car weighs 3,600 LB , a regular pro mod is 2,600 ish.
Boost surge.
Are you using CO2 to control the waste gate? If so, I wonder of the solenoid valve is slow to respond and that is causing the issue. Also, if the bottle regulator is single stage, they tend not to regulate pressure very well where as two stage regulators provide a more stable pressure.
Boys better watch out, cleetus coming for y'all haha jkjk would love to see the wagon race cleetus CJRC Camaro when it's done. Thx for the upload
Just great to see you and Boostmaster II back together and racing again it’ll only get better from here.