This is by far..BY FAR one of the best tutorials on this topic on RUclips. I am the biggest fan of this channel, thank you, Darren, so much for sharing
@Solvegia Sure it is. Every Colorist has his own, unique way of Grading. Workflow to any colorist plays an important role when grading. I found the old, golden method of manually using the CST technique instead of relying on the Resolve alone to perform it's algorithm to convert to color spaces. Which one did you find promising? @Darren Mostyn First, I convert from Slog3.Cine Slog3 to Arri Gammut 3 ArriLogC3, perform exposure corrections using Curves, Balance the Image using Offset, Contrast, Primaries, Saturation, Color Cast, Basic Grade, then convert it from Arri Gammut 3 ArriLogC3 to DWG INTERMEDIATE, see if a LUT is working, convert to Rec.709 and start performing furthur global setting required beneath the last conversion which is Rec.709(after a LUT). My question is, irrespective of what color space you convert your footage into, if the timeline color space is set to DWG Intermediate and the output is set to Rec.709 Gamma 2.4, is there a need to convert to DWG during the workflow? I'm looking at a 100% Rec.709 BenQ SW270C monitor(Factory Calibrated) Also, does my workflow make any sense to you? Tell me if I'm wrong
Ditto for me. Thank you the great content. Just watched a few so far and they were game changers for my understanding of the colourspaces in Resolve. Thanks!
Incredible video. I've taken several masterclasses on grading and none have tackled color space as eloquently and to the point as this video.Thanks, man!
When I irate got into davinci a few weeks ago,I loved it and I watched this video but coming from Final Cut Pro,it didn't make too much sense, now I have been learning more about davinci I came back to this video and realised a few or many things I had no idea about that definitely was hindering my gradet lol,thanks.
This video is fantastic! Thank you so much! I also have a question, please. I film myself, for my YT videos, using my Logitech HD webcam. I have been trying to find information on what colour space the footage is in. Do you know how I can find this information out, please?
Hi Darren. Thank you for putting this videon together. Between this one and the other two CST videos I think I am getting it. One question... around the 10:20 when you switched the timeline color space from DWG why wasn't in necessary to change the input on the CST (last node) from Sony to DWG as well? Thanks in advance. Kind regards. Todd
Thank you very much! I don't think I understand why it's beneficial to have the timeline colour space in a wider space than Rec709 yet. Could you please clarify?
Darren, why you don't talk about Rec709-A for successful color on Mac ? As i seen - you work on Mac OS. And with Rec709-A you have same gamma/contrast and color in QuickTime Player and in Davinci Resolve. In this case you have 1-1-1 code points, but in case with Rec709 Gamma 2.4 on Mac you have 1-2-1 code points and different color and gamma in QuickTime Player or Web Browser (Safari) and Davinci Resolve Viewer.
Hello Sir! I have watched all of your CST and color management videos however, couldn't find the answer to my old question which is if I grade on my macbook M1 pro using it's screen, should I use Rec 709a? as I get fairly faded colors after export while using gamma 2.4
that means when I want to use a LUT for my slog3 footage, I have to let the color science on Davinci YRGB, because when I use the Color Managed option, I do have to select a input color space?
Work with as much headroom(wide gamut) as possible, than compress(709) for broadcasting media. Like, making a Wave audio file to a MP3 for easier transmission and storage.
Really easy to follow and well explained Darren. For some that don't know what rec709 ( scene ) is: The rec709( Scene) is the color space that most cameras give to rec709 - which was developed before the standards of 2.4 gamma was established in BT1886 which is the recommended gamma for High Definition flat panel displays. Macs however still returns generic rec709 tags to gamma 1.96 which is the problem that many Mac users, that use their GUI for monitoring run into, where the preview in Quicktime doesn't match the GUI in Resolve. Should be noted that Mac users do have in Preferences to have Resolve automatically change input rec709 ( scene ) to rec709-a on input. Just thought I would note that for people that want to dig into this deeper. The mac colorsync gamma of non meta tagged or mistagged gamma issue is one of the most asked problems in the Resolve forums - almost daily. I feel like that could be an addendum to this video you have done here, because to understand the issue, you need to understand all these terms and how they relate. To which you have laid out a foundation to explain and attempt to fix that issue. ( spoiler alert - it can't totally be fixed, but can be tamed ) Anyway thanks for putting out another quality video regarding color and the tools we use to work with them. Although, I know the CST method is sound that you use ( and others ) I still wonder why we don't establish the correct color space at the front of the node tree and then add a CST at the end to send to display? I know that you are working with the tools under the display CST but can't understand how Resolve knows what space it is, without telling it what space? In almost every case in Resolve it doesn't process backwards - so logically if the colorspace hasn't yet been established, you are working under the CST, but in what space? I asked Cullen this and he does it the way you have illustrated here. Not sure I communicated the question properly though. Anyways glad to see another Mostyn tutorial. Made my Monday more interesting to say the least. Cheers.
Thanks Jim for your fine in depth and much welcomed synopsis....good reading! I guess that you could put a CST at the front and send its output to match the timeline settings and then at the end have the input be your timeline settings mapped to output ? I'll play with that. However I have different CST's set for each colour space on input - I dont use one generic, so Im telling Resolve what the input is on a clip by clip basis. You can also set NODES to behave in a color space just to throw another obstacle in the way. This hope fully explains the timeline color concept without confusing too many and of course CST workflow is the obstacle for me and you! We should, just work color manged really! Thanks for your support and I did promise a healthier episode this time than the last one I did!! All the best mate, Darren.
Regarding the CST method you mention in the end here, are you referring to a node based color management? With an IN node (from camera colorspace to working colorspace) in the very beginning, and then an OUT node (from working color space to display) at the very end? That’s the way I work and although it requires setting it up, that can be done very quickly, and then I’m in total control of the pipeline (which always feels good). Maybe I’m wrong, but I feel many colorists is doing it this way? And that’s another thing about CM. This is all fairly “new” grounds to even the most experienced digital colorists when you relate it to the fact that film is hundreds of years old but digital colorgrading is still in its infancy. Everybody is learning, new stuff comes out and that’s one of the reasons that tutorials like this one is so valuable.
No, Scene is linear light scene, not display linear light. It uses OETF to convert to linear, not EOTF. When you color manage you are supposed to operate on scene linear light and only change to display linear light in the end. In fact you can display using scene light but you will have to match conditions outside and remove all glare from the sun. For a long time 2.35 which is after round on Sony LCDs became 2.4 was the only standard there is for TVs. It all got confusing when EOTF of sRGB was introduced.
Clearly demonstrated and beautifully articulated tutorial. It makes sense that working in DaVinci WideGamut in the timeline would give you more leeway and room to work worth. Perhaps I am missing something... but if you're going to deliver in Rec709 Gamma 2.4, and clipping would occur on the delivered file, wouldn't it be better to just work in Rec709 in the timeline to know exactly what you are going to get on the final output? Is it not a choice between where the clipping will occur: the timeline or output? Thanks for clarifying, and for your excellent tutorials. They are a joy to watch.
Darren, you’re a complete and utter star. Your tutorials are so wonderfully simple. Plus, I love the fact that you don’t do the American-style 10 minute intros explaining what you’re about to do. You just jump right in. Thanks so much. John
Can I ask - in the last CST work flow you were using, the CST node is last. If the timeline colourspace is DWG, why is the input for the CST node not selected as DWG, but just the original footage space?
Thanks for this Darren! Great explanation. So, question: (for the sake of brevity, Rec 709 Gamma 2.4 = Rec while DaVinci Wide Gamut Intermediate = DWGI) Let's assume source is BRAW from a Pocket 4K. Timeline is set to Rec and my output is set to Rec. It makes sense that everything will look the same from timeline to display. Same color space. So I push the exposure on the clouds like you did and get clipping. Right. Now change the timeline like you did to DWGI and the clipping on the monitor changes. This makes sense with a larger color space. However, this is where it's not making sense: If my output is still Rec, how does the larger timeline color space back off on the clipping and then deliver this to a Rec output color space including more detail than the Rec timeline was able to do? Does my question make sense? It seems like the Rec output should reintroduce that clipping.
The transforms that davinci uses to step down from a big colorspace and dynamic range to a smaller colorspace and dynamic range are rolling off highlights to preserve detail, which the curves or HDR wheels don't do on their own.
The video conflates gamut and transfer function - two totally separate attributes. The gamut differences shown using the CIE diagram are not at all the reason that his changing the timeline color space resulted in the brightness range difference of the image. What made the difference is the 100 nit max of SDR REC709 gamma 2.4 vs the 1000nit max to which he set it when using Davinci Intermediate/Davinci Wide Gamut.
That is a fair point however doesn't alter what the timeline colour space is for - I got unlucky I guess as was trying to show that the curves are color space aware only in RCM, had I adjusted temperature for eg you would see that the DWG makes a difference beyond the 100 - 1000 nits. A very hard episode to make this one. Thanks anyway James. The INPUT to TIMELINE does work in a larger colour space and not just nit level. All the best. Darren
@@DarrenMostyn You do great work! Serious props to you for making these videos and sharing them. Yes, this was a tough one. I realize the gamut also makes a difference. It's just that difference wasn't what was being demonstrated in the brightness changes to the image on screen in your video. Resolve itself shouldn't be defaulting to conflating gamut and gamma, and instead should default to having them as separate attributes (and Resolve should also be using the correct term transfer function instead of persisting in labelling it gamma). Too many users never realize because the separation of those distinct attributes remains hidden behind a check box.
Great Tutorial, could you please give a brief explanation of why there’s such a big difference when setting the output gammas when working natively on mac screens (macbooks), since the only colourspace that gives accurate results is rec.709-A and all the others are way off in contrast ?
I was in need of a refresher to solidify my understanding for a project, so came back to watch this for, I think, the fourth time. This is an exceptional tutorial about color spaces, what they are, their relationship to each other, and how to work with and in them. You get an amazing amount of information into eleven minutes -- all of it perfectly clear. Thank you.
Thank you Darren, this is currently the BEST video on RUclips to explain how to get the most gamma from multiple cameras within the timeline/deliver colour space. Nobody ever mentions non log (baked in) footage, and/or multiple camera formats. Don't know why it's never mentioned because in real world video editing tasking it happens more often than not. There are far too many videos about LOG footage grading and colour space set ups, so this video is very refreshing and certainly much needed. Thanks again. Great advice on a fantastic channel. Would love to also see a video dedicated ONLY to working with NON LOG (baked in) footage to get the most from the available gamma. Currently a video does not exist on RUclips. Crazy.
Hi Darren, what a great explanation on such a underrated topic. To be honest, it took me more than a year to get familiar with the concept of the 3 different color spaces and what those are about. In the meantime, I tend do prefer the non-managed color science DaVinci YRGB, timeline colors space ARRI-Log C (for it's lovely highlight rolloff) to deliver in Rec709 Gamma 2.4
By the time you are reading this comment dear people, you probably just realized, that prior to this you have crawled through the offers of all those Dunnig-Kruger aka Armchair Experts and also probably, like I, are right now laying on the floor and thanking the universe, that there actually is a person in this world who know what he is talking about. Also, it appears to me, that there is a whole breed calling themselves "color grader", cause they missed out on all the basics, found a workaround and try to sell you their LUTs now. Thank you mister, very much for this video.
Thanks! You did a great job with this and I hope I understood correctly. So, can you please clarify that the view and corrections seen in a wide gamut timeline will correctly translate to a REC 709 output? Also, I think I've broken the code with the help of other videos I've watched but a common complaint is the difference in saturation seen in output files when compared to the timeline. I'm referring to using the Mac OS.
I've been doing a lot of research on this exact subject and have found it hard to keep up, but this video REALLY helped clear things up for me and I m so glad I've subscribed! Definitely will be referring back to this from time to time and thank you for making this and thank you for explaining this is a concise way!
Glad it was helpful. I work hard to give the best explanations I can based on real broadcast scenarios that I come across every day. Happy to share. Apprectiate your kind comments and of course your subscription shows appreciation the best for me.
now I understand why all the footage not coming out of a top studio looks so shitty. black magic put up a color management that all these people just have no clue. phew man if only people understood that changing the color space doesn't mean the clip is at any kind of color standard. it just a basic value change.
Honestly this was something I didn’t know that I didn’t know, thank you for enlightening me. Great content, and I appreciate how to the point you explained everything. Great demonstrations as well!
So if youre shooting with just 1 camera, shooting in the same color space, you could skip the CST step by setting up the color management section accordingly, neat!
I had to watch it maybe three times to stick with me since I'm still at exploring colour grading, but every video I watch of your channel I feel like I'm closer to becoming a great colourist such as yourself! Awesome video Darren, thank you so much for sharing all your knowledge about it!
For my thesis/research paper, I am still comparing color handling and approaches in different software and production environments. Its really frustrating to see many aspects are really only documented in terms of workflow steps and not in terms of exact technical nuance. (Critique is not geared towards you, but towards software/hardware manufacturers, including Blackmagic. You are working with what we got, I like your work.) In my current view of the analysis, multi-software color management needs more momentum towards open architectures and completely published profiles, better technical and theoretical agreements (keywords: relative and absolute scene-referred, color management systems vs workflows and color appearance models and the idea of what a "neutral digital image" is), as well as consistent use and implementation of labels describing any arbitrary operation that changes the appearance of color (directly and indirectly).
@@lolerie I would suggest try using specific color appearance models or workflows in your color management approach (e.g. TCAM2), or try using BM camera profiles/transforms in software outside of Resolve. Or try using OCIO in Resolve. I can might agree many different standards are met, but its always a question what variable we are testing. And Davinci/BM, like many others, is definitely not a golden standard regarding documenting or publishing the exact math & algorithms applied.. especially regarding "color management"
@@BlackPantherElite well, ACES 1.3 should be very good, using CAMs in production is very dangerous though (latest big things is Oklab space, then CIECAM16 and IPT are all quite unstable, IPT of dolby vision maybe less so).
@@lolerie depends on your vantage point, but ACES, even 1.3, most definitely is not even being used in big productions but reversed, as Kevin demonstrated the working group in a meeting. I can also document this after numerous interviews with supes and tds on productions, but you are free to use what ever you want. My other points regarding OCIO implementation and publishing of profiles and other important info still stands. Our survey analyzed roughly 400 workflows in different production environments. But we are just analyzing and evaluating, not giving recommendations. And your point on not using CAMs - take a look at what ACES does and wants to do, their documentation, RRT, transform concept, and discussions on ACEScentral are quite telling.
@@BlackPantherElite ACES 1.3 is literally 20 or so standards of SMPTE, Davinci released 1.3 support first! It is used by MANY many people. In Hollywood too. In other countries too. In fact look it up on RUclips.
If you could do a basic down to earth tutorial on how to setup Davinci on modern mac computer with a P3 wide gamut display to work with mixed input projects (like iphone HLG, GoPro SDR, Sony Slog, etc) and output a/ rec.709 SDR for RUclips, b/HDR for RUclips - WE WOULD BE THANKFUL FOREVER. Currently RUclips is a scene where every beginner Davinci editor puts up his wildest guesses on how he thinks he can get adequate conversions of colorspaces on mixed footage, but its a complete mess.
Thanks for the video Darren. I am working color managed for a while now. I have set my monitors and project to rec 709 gamma 2.4. I am working on MacOS and I noticed a gamma shift when I upload my final grades to vimeo. So I changed my output color space to Rec709-A. The gamma shift is gone but I do wonder if this is the right way to handle the problem. Does this mean I still have to export a rec709 gamma 2.4 version for broadcasting or screens? I hope you can help me with this.
Hi Darren. Love your stuff, but I have a bit of an issue with this one. Mainly what you did is really a demo of the HDR to SDR tone mapping, not anything to do with color gamut sizes. The highlight detail you see coming back is because switching over to Davinci WG/Intermediate automatically switches the default "Timeline working luminance" to "HDR 1000". Which is moving your luminance ceiling up, and tone mapping it back down to the 100 nit output. But if you set the working luma back to "SDR 100" it will look exactly the same in both Rec709 or Davinci WG working space. And alternatively, staying in a Rec709 working space and just switching the working luminance to HDR 1000 will give you identical tone mapping.
That is a fair point however doesn't alter what the timeline colour space is for - I got unlucky I guess as was trying to show that the cureves are color space aware only in RCM, had I adjusted temperature for eg you would see that the DWG makes a difference beyond the 100 - 1000 nits. A very hard episode to make this one. Thanks anyway Jeremy. The INPUT to TIMELINE does work in a larger space and not just nit level. All the best. Darren
Does the automatic working luminance at HDR 1000 affect the export - when uploading to RUclips the gamma has shifted and everything is a lot brighter/washed out and colour shift :(
So, if i got you right, in case we are working in Davinchi WideGamut we can use HDR wheels, but in case we are working rec709 (which is set by default), there are no point in HDR wheels and we should use Primeries only. Correct?
No you can use HDR wheels, just be aware of what color space they are set to. They are SDR and REC709 compatible and I recommend them too. Hope that helps. Darren
I don't know why I get weird results with the Canon CLOG3 and cinema gamuts. It just seems to darken everything by about 4 f stops and looses data. I end up colour grading everything manually as the LUTs, transforms etc just don't seem to work right with Canon footage, no matter what I select in various settings.
@Darren Mostyn This may be a stupid question. But what color space do you put the timeline in if you haven't shot in log or raw and have shot with the standard non-log profile of a camera? Also do you need to shoot in log if you are for example shooting a timelapse photo sequence using RAW photo stills?
Thank you for the video. But I cun't find the answer to the main qiestion - in which color space should I export video for youtube to make it in youtube the same as in my monitor? RUclips distirted colors in my videos. How to avoid it?
why would input color space stay at rec 709 for that slog clip? shouldn't he change the input color space to slog 3? am i the only one with his decoder ring out watching this over again? mostly really clear to me though. also, if you use Cine 2. what is the input and output color space and gamma? is that just rec 709?
Hi Teh. If you watch it again you’ll see that I do change the input colour space to Slog3 at 2.20 (ish). You can set to slog2 if you need to. Hope that helps. Darren
I presume I must adjust my Eizo display to the REC 709 color profile to grade accurately? ( Rec.ITU-R BT.709-5 and Rec.ITU-R BT.2020-1 are two that are is offered in the drop down menu. ) Thank you
Hi Darren, great content , just a quick question, if my timeline is rec 709 , what color space should be my calibrated monitor rec709 or full gamut (in my case 100% adobe RGB) ? thanks
Hello Darren! Thanks so much for sharing all your tutorials. Your resources have only been very helpful and nothing less. I noticed that you’re working on a Mac OS. I’ve done extensive research and testing when it comes to matching color from a working monitor for web deliveries/passing to other visual artists on a Mac (Rec709 2.4 VS Rec709-A). I have to mention that I do not have an I/O device as a reference monitor. As we know it, BM released a REC709-A to correct the mac display to match deliveries which introduces it’s own set of workarounds to be aware of. On the other hand, I could use a viewing monitoring LUT (Rec709 2.4 gamma -> REC709-A) in the settings to match what I see on my working monitor with the end delivery when working in 2.4 gamma. I work on a Mac Studio paired with a Studio Display. My question is, since you’re working on a strictly REC709 2.4 gamma (generally speaking) project output - was there anything you did to get your working monitor to match your I/O device since Apple’s Colorsync does change gamma (I’m assuming this question would be relevant if it’s a Mac monitor or if it’s a monitor connected to your Apple workstation)? Or the universal question would be, how does your setup work to get the right gamma display on the working monitor on an Apple machine?
Thanks for this Darren. I watched this again just to make sure but it’s my curiosity that strikes me. May I ask, with your current setup - does your I/O device/monitor match the gamma of your working monitor without having to tweak/set anything? I ask this because on my working monitor (Apple Studio Display), the gamma shifts (darker) and the export is brighter. A viewing LUT (rec709 2.4 -> rec709-A) helps me match what I’m seeing to what I’m actually exporting. I’m not sure if this only happens exclusively on Apple monitors, so I was curious to know if: - You’re using a non apple monitor as your working monitor, and/or; - Whether calibrating the working monitor corrects what you’re supposed to be looking at (as it may bypass the GPU color processing or alter it to the desired viewing)
Thanks for these precise tutorial, Can we get any benefit on changing the timeline luminance from 1000 to 2000,4000 or more? ( Can we get more dynamic range for the luminance)
I'm an Adobe PP user trying to work up the motivation to move to Davinci -when Adobe "fixed" their HDR workflow, it threw me into a tailspin and ruined all of my projects for nearly 2 months while I wasted countless hours on the internet trying to figure out what I was doing "wrong"... while frustrating, it forced me to try and learn color spaces. This was a little over a year ago, and they've since made the SLOG3 workflow functional -but it still sucks really bad. This video has helped TREMENDOUSLY and has given me a bit moar motivation to finally make the big switch to Davinci. I'd be lying though, if I didn't say that I"m cautious of switching... The trend these days for companies is to sh.t on their customers after they've captured their intended marketshare, and further monetize (the already frustrating) interaction with their software.
Great video Darrin. I just downloaded Davinci two weeks ago and this has helped me a lot in my start here. One question: what's the difference between the "input color space" within the Project Settings and "input color space" at a node-base level? I see that the "input color space" in the project settings is Rec709 Gamma 2.4, but you again had to identify the "input color space" on the clip to Slog. Then at the node-base level, the "input color space" is no longer Rec709 Gamma 2.4 rather Sony S-Gamut3.Cine. Am I missing something?
Another good video! Darren- in another one of your great videos, when in 'YRGB non colored managed', you apply a CST node before (Camera>DWG) and then a CST node after (DWG>709 2.4). In this video, why are you only applying a CST node after your grading? Also if you have time, is it ok to apply a CST node on a post or pre group level? And what applies first, a 'post-group level' or a 'timeline level'?
Thanks Darren, always a pleasure to see your videos. I am confused thought, in this specific example, what the point to work in a wider color space in order to have more color (the blue in the sky that was previously clipped), what will happen when we will convert it back to our output color space? the blue in the sky that we manage to get, it will be clipped again?
Regarding the grading exposure difference you demonstrated for Davinci Wide Gamut vs Rec.709 timeline color spaces, this doesn't actually clip the grade to the shallower timeline space (Rec.709 in this case). To demonstrate this, if you add a serial node after the exposure node that pushes the highlights beyond clipping, you can bring those highlights back without any loss of information by adjusting the exposure back. This means Resolve is always using high-precision representation of the footage irrespective of the working space employed. The only practical difference in the timeline color space chosen is whether it previews what the clipping would look like - but again, it's not actually clipped if you adjust it back on a subsequent node.
Awesome explanation i just whatch it more than 3 time ....but i have a question about cine 4 .....what about the Cine 4 footage.... what will be input gamma for cine 4 ???....i tried to put input gamma for cine 4 is gamma 2.2 and rec 709 ...but result is not satisfied ......can you help me to clear what it will be ???
Great video,just purchased a dell U4025QW ultra wide 5k monitor to use with DaVinci Resolve,what montor color profile settings would you recommend using ?
Hi Darren. Much obliged to you. I am using an FX6, shooting S-Gamut3.Cine/S-Log3. What is the best color managed input and timeline setting: S-Gamut3.Cine/S-Log3 or S-Gamut3/S-Log 3? See you used S-Gamut3/S-Log 3 on the timeline for this tutorial. And the best CST setting? In your earlier video on grading Slog footage from the FX6, you had S-Gamut3.Cine/S-Log3 in the input color space for the CST. Thanks so much!
Sorry if my question is simple, but if I have a generic camera (Panasonic FZ2500 with CineDLike profile) that would be in REC709 color space, edit it in the timeline with a wider color space like Davince wide, and then render it on REC709 for RUclips. My color grading would be narrowed down for the output space so the video will look overexposed (as in the example of the sky)?
I have a very noob question: why not just work within the constraints of a Rec.709 timeline colour space, if you're outputting to Rec.709 anyway, instead working in a bigger space like shown in this video? Like if you use a wider colour space, you can push your grading parameters further before things start clipping. But don't you get the same result in a smaller space by just not pushing your parameters as far? I fully assume I'm missing something here, so clarification would be very welcome :)
Best video on Color Management workflow! I do have one question, though: Once you set your Timeline Color Space to Davinci Wide Gamut Intermediate 10:12 to get the best, let's say, "headroom" for color correction tools... shouldn't you modify the input settings on the CST node? Or is it independent from the input/output settings? Let's say I want to output (that is, visualise in my Rec.709 monitor AND deliver/render) in SDR 709, but I want to work on my footage in the widest color space (and dynamic range) possible to avoid clipping and use the color tools comfortably. Should I set: - Unmanaged (Davinci YRGB) - Timeline Color Space to Davinci Wide Gamut Intermediate - Output Color Space to Rec.709 Gamma 2.4 (or Scene, what's the difference?)😂 - CST node (last) to every clip with correspondent camera Input Color Space and Gamma (E.G. Sony Cine + Sony Slog3), Rec.709 2.4 Output AND Davinci Tone Mapping (to correlate to the DV Wide Gamut Intermediate setting in Timeline Color Space)??? I'm hoping this makes any sense 😂
Thanks Darren. Brilliant tutorial. Have you created any tutorials on exporting transcoded HDR log in Rec 709 projects? I followed your helpful settings/workflow recommendations for the rec 709 color grade of a no budget documentary I'm working on. I'm very happy with the results on my MacBook Pro M3 Max monitor and other Apple devices, but when exported the video has too much contrast, is over lit and has washed out colors when viewed on Rec 709 TVs and projectors. I filmed the footage using HLG BT2020 on a Sony full frame camera because I understood it was developed for seamless integration between HDR and SDR. HLG is certainly much easier to color grade than S, C and D-log footage. But, I've struggled with the transcoded Rec 709 color grade on both Davinci and Final Cut Pro.
Very clear explanation. Thanks for this. So is the recommendation for the "timeline color space" to always match the "input color space" (if all the footage is from the same camera) or the Davinci WG/Intermediate color space vs working in the Rec709 color space? Also, is working in color managed better than doing a CST? Seems a lot more work to do a CST versus working in color managed. But do you get more control if you are applying the CST per clip?
Hi Darren. I edit on a mac. Would you setup the color space to 2.4 or 709.A? Some people say the latter, but I cannot find the correct answer. My monitors are just standard rec 709. Thank you in advance.
Darren, I use Davinci Resolve on a Macbook M1 Max and I have a problem with color shift when I upload my videos to RUclips- the videos look less saturated after I upload them. In this case, would you recommend changing the output color space to sRGB instead of Rec.709? I've also heard about using Rec.709-A. What are your thoughts on that compared to the sRGB and Rec.709? I feel so confused about this. I'd be very grateful for your insight.🙂
That's great but I still have one question. If I'm in a color managed environment with input color space "SLog3", timeline colorspace "Davinci Wide Gamut" and output colorspace "Rec709", how do I use film luts like the Kodak ones? I use a CST from "Timeline colorspace" to "Rec709/Cineon Film Log", then I apply my lut in the next node and in a third node I make a CST from "Rec709/Gamut 2.4" back again to the "timeline colorspace". Because I assume the signal from the last node must be in the timeline colorspace again so that Davinci transforms it back to the needed output colorspace. Is my approach correct? THANK YOU a lot for an answer here!
THANK YOU FOR THIS VIDEO!!!! Two Questions: I am currently using a non-log camera. Will this method work to properly convert sRGB/RGB into rec709 so the colors can be deep, vibrant, and pop more like on more modern cameras? Also I'm using an M1 mac laptop that has a rec709 display setting. Do you feel that is optimal for that color space or should I invest in a separate monitor?
@@DarrenMostyn thank you so much for the information!!! Hopefully I can really get my colors to stand out. You have definitely earned a subscriber b/c I didn't realize how much more I had to learn.
Help me please.! Anyone. What are the render settings for your videos. I am getting pixelated and blurred video uploads after uploading to RUclips. I've tried almost everything. Camera Used - BMPCC4K & Davinci Resolve for Color grading. Render Setting I used - Quicktime - H.264/H.265, 1080p, bitrate - 50000kbps and above, even tried CBR instead of default VBR. RUclips is using Codec - VP09 instead of av01, similar to the other professional video uploads. So there is no problem there. I've even tried uploading 4K/2K video, tried different codecs like DNXHR, and others. But I'm getting similar results. I'm not new to editing videos. I am learning from more than 3 years, but I,m stuck here.
Super helpful thank you. I already watched the main video too but have a question. I edit on an M1 Base Model MacBook Air. My Colour Profile on my display is set to "Colour LCD" by default. I want to edit in the Wide Colourspace you mention but you always mention the output at 2.4 gamma. What should I be using on my MacBook as I don't have an external display and want to make sure I am editing correctly. thanks
Does it matter what color profile your monitor has? I'm on a apple studio display and the default profile is "Apple Display (P3-600 nits)". Does it matter if I keep that or should I change it to "HDTV Video (BT.709-BT.1886)"? Why does this matter? I mean I'm making videos that will be shown on monitors/web where monitors are not using the BT.709 profile. Probably a newbie question. But oh well 🙂
Great video! Question: If I work on a Mac, should I set output color space to Rec 709 A instead of rec 709 gamma 2.4 with the NON cst workflow? Using BMPCC 4k with Film log.
If I want to use an ARRI CLOG4 LUT in my workflow (while working with mixed footage), does the following make sense?: Setting: Resolve color managed, DWG timeline, 709 output Node structure: CC/grade - CST (Use timeline- > CLOG4) - CLOG4 LUT - CST (CLOG4 -> Use Timeline) ?
Really helpful video, thanks Darren. A rather basic question: what is the difference between Rec709(Scene) and Rec709 Gamma 2.4? Does it matter which one you use? I shot the footage with a Canon EOS-R with Picture Style Neutral, rather than C-log.
Hi Darren, thank you for your video, it's incredibly clear and really helpful! I'm using RED footage and I have a doubt regarding some parameters, maybe you have an answer! Projects Settings-->Color Management: I set the parameters like I understood watching your video. Ok. Projects Settings-->Camera Raw-->Project Settings: what exactly am I setting in this panel? I see again the parameters "Color science", "Color space" and "Gamma curve". Haven't I already set them in the Color Management panel? Thank you so much, please keep doing your amazing tutorials!
Hi Darren, i am a little confused still. I prefer to use the Input color space method as oppose to CST... however, when I use Input Color Space (Davinci YRGB Color Manage). Automatic color management. my Clog3 footage (canon R6II) doesn't seem to have any effect. is it because it's not RAW? Can i stay on Automatic color management? or do i need to go into custom like you. Can you not do anything with CST? or is that necessary as part of the workflow? or is it one or the other?
Can you use color management and CST together? For example, color management can be used for the input color space as Rec.709 gamma 2.2, timeline color space as DaVinci WG, and output as Rec.709 gamma 2.2. This would convert your P3-D65 footage into the DaVinci WG working space and display it in Rec.709 gamma 2.2 on your monitor. Can you then add a CST to convert with input color space, input gamma, and output color space set as the timeline, with the output gamma as Cineon log? After that, can you add another node and apply a Rec.709 Kodak 2383 D65 LUT? Would that be the correct workflow?
Thus for A7S3 recordings in S-Log 3 / color mode S-Gamut3.cine A: project setting / color management B: node 1 = CST C: node x at the end = LUT A: Davinci YRGB colormanaged / custom / input color space: Rec 709 gamma 2.4 / timeline color space: DaVinci WG/intermediate / HDR 1000 B: node1 = CST input color space = use timeline ? or what ? Sony S Gamut3.Cine ? output color space = use timeline ? or what ? output gamma = use timeline ? or what ? C: node at the end = LUT , e.g. Phantom LUT Arri "neutral" or "Sony\Slog3SGamut3-Cine TolC-709Type A" Ask: what settings must be made at node CST if settings as under A? Is node 1 with CST even required? I would be happy for an answer.
Hmm on the csts: Why did you not create the node tree like that: 1st node: Input color space: Sony S-Gamut3.Cine Input Gamma: Sony S-Log3 Output Color Space: DaVinci Wide Gamut Output Gamma: DaVinci Intermediate 2nd-5th and more node- parallel: Exposure, Saturation, Skin tone etc. 6th node: Input color space: DaVinci Wide Gamut Input Gamma: DaVinci Intermediate Output Color Space: Sony S-Gamut3.Cine Output Gamma: Sony S-Log3 7th node: Input color space: Sony S-Gamut3.Cine Input Gamma: Sony S-Log3 Output Color Space: Rec.709 Output Gamma: Gamma 2.4 Is it not necessary to create a first node converting the input to working color space which is DaVicni Wide Gamut. Davinic Resolve handle it better by itself under the hood?
Really helpful tutorial and interesting to see the non-linear effects in action. One thing that I find slightly confusing about davinci is the use of the term 'colorspace' to mean 'colorspace and gamma'. I do understand why this is technically correct, but it creates misunderstandings, like when you showed the colour diagram as an explanation for the non-linear effects. Really its the expanded tonal range of the timeline space driving this, and to separate that concept from 'color' would seem like best practice to me, unless I've just got myself confused!
The highlight detail you see coming back is because switching over to Davinci WG/Intermediate automatically switches the default "Timeline working luminance" to "HDR 1000".
Fantastic learning material, really appreciate all the effort you put into making these videos. I work on a MacBook Pro with XDR display - should I be using the HDTV reference mode or the SRGB reference mode to get accurate colours? Cheers!
I follow each and every step, I have three nodes, two first are blank serial nodes and the third serial is my CST. Sony footage, Input color space Sony S-Gamut3.Cine, Input Gamma Sony s-Log3, Output Color Space Rec.709, Output Gamma Gamma 2.4. My project settings are Color science DaVinci YRGB, Timeline color space DV WG/Intermediate, Output color space Rec.709 Gamma 2.4 But, whenever I move from having my third CST node highlighted to node one or two (to grade beneath the CST), I get a flat image again. I can't figure this out. Is there some other settings that I have missed here?
Hi Darren, So I am working on SLOG3 footage, and I saw in one of your video where in you already preset the Davici wide gamut and Rec704 gamma 2.4 in the color management. Does it means that its okay to start there and continue straight with the CST without playing around with the HDR setting?
How do I find out what's my monitor's colour space? I fiddled with the OSD settings but most related options are greyed out because I have HDR on? What's the process for HDR enabled monitors?
Hey Darren, thanks for the video, this is some great stuff. I was just curious what I should do if I am working with rec.601 (ntsc smpte-c) footage, in rec 709 space. I've tried selecting smpte-c as the input colour, but it doesn't correctly interpret the 601 space. No matter what I try, It just looks at it like its rec 709 still (the scopes confirm this). I think the latest update might've borked automatic ycbcr conversion, but I was just curious if you had any solutions for me. Thanks so much for being awesome
Great Vid, but running into a lot of trouble using this Method. I am using Panasonic VLOG from a GH5s. First thing to notice is, that when I go into Project Settings/Color Management, I don't get the "Output Color Space" Option. I only get that Option, by going to "Custom" under "Color Processing Mode". When I set all the appropiate (Panasonic V-Gamut/V-Log) the Image in the preview adapts. But when I set timeline color space to Rec.709 Gamma 2.4 and switch it, lets say to Davinci Wide Gamut, there is no visual difference in the displayed Range as it is in this video. If I perform a cst by applying a cst node at the end of then chain and set all parameters (ICS: Panasonic V-Gamut, IG: Panasonic V-Log, OCS: Rec.709, OG:Gamma 2.4) the output adapts and displays the image correctly, but only if the Node with the CST is selected. If I select other nodes to grade, it reverts back to plain V-Log, which actually makes it impossible to grade, since I never the the correct output. Don't know if this makes any sense.
Brilliant! Thank you. I am having this problem that when I switch to Davinci WG as my timeline color space it makes my gopro footage worse (clipping highlights etc), which is weird to me. As far as I am concerned it should increase my dynamic range not make it smaller. Yet when I change the timeline colorspace to Aces the image becomes better (or at least not worse - can be subtle)
There are so many different color spaces involved here... 1/ the actual color space of the scene, I mean the outside world, 2/ color space of the cam photosites, 3/ color space of the cam's recorded file, 4/ color space of the input in DVR, 5/ color space or the timeline, 6/ color space of your screen (you are working with, in DVR), 7/ color space of the output in DVR, 8/ color space of the export in DVR, viewing: 9/ color space of the graphic card of your pchc, 10/ color space of the video renderer, 11/ color space of the video projector, 12/ actual color space transformed by the screen.
Awesome video! Well explained all around! I have a question and you seem to know your color spaces very well. Im on a 2021 MBP with the LG monitor if that info is needed, but no matter what I do when I export to Rec709 2.4 and put the video on RUclips or Vimeo I immediately lose contrast and saturation and it often takes on a slightly greener tint, though it looks fine and proper in Quicktime. From what i have read is that quicktime maintains different metadata that does not pass to Vimeo or youtube, or something boring and technical... The only fix i have ever found to work and maintain the look i created in Davinci is to use the Import setting of Rec 709 2.4, the Wide Gamut, and the Output to 709-Type A (not 709 2.4) which seems to have zero effect on my coloring abilities within davinci. Is there any reason that i should be using 2.4 over Type-A, and if so how can i maintain my look from start to finish? Thanks in advance, and thanks again for this video.
Great Video, I work with the original Blackmagic Pocket cinema Camera (1080p) and like to use Luts and Film convert, etc. What project settings do you suggest I set and forget??
Hey Darren, thanks for your video ! I have a problem and I searched everywhere without finding any answer... I have a macbook pro M1 and I shoot with a Sony FX3 in Slog 3. Recently I changed Davinci settings and checked "Use Mac display color profiles for viewers" because my export looked washed out. In the project settings, I work with Timeline Color Space : Rec 709-A, same for output color space. But now, the blacks in my images have some lines in them, as if the blacks are not enough black, I can see some halos growing when I play with the shadows for example. Do you have an idea of what it is and how to correct that ? I would be very grateful, thanks !
Darren, just one simple question. What about if I work in a non color space environment and work with nodes. And I use Rec 709 to Davinci wide gamut to Rec. Are my curves then colourspace aware after the Wide gamut node? Thank's a lot. greetings Richard
![Watch these 25 mins to FULLY Understand Color Management [Beginners Guide]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/AAeZKZ5feGA/mqdefault.jpg)
This is by far..BY FAR one of the best tutorials on this topic on RUclips. I am the biggest fan of this channel, thank you, Darren, so much for sharing
You're very welcome! Thank you so much, it is appreciated.
Finally, someone explained this difficult topic in an understandable way. Thank you so much!
same here. finally , understand what is input,timeline & output mean.
@Solvegia Sure it is. Every Colorist has his own, unique way of Grading. Workflow to any colorist plays an important role when grading. I found the old, golden method of manually using the CST technique instead of relying on the Resolve alone to perform it's algorithm to convert to color spaces. Which one did you find promising? @Darren Mostyn First, I convert from Slog3.Cine Slog3 to Arri Gammut 3 ArriLogC3, perform exposure corrections using Curves, Balance the Image using Offset, Contrast, Primaries, Saturation, Color Cast, Basic Grade, then convert it from Arri Gammut 3 ArriLogC3 to DWG INTERMEDIATE, see if a LUT is working, convert to Rec.709 and start performing furthur global setting required beneath the last conversion which is Rec.709(after a LUT). My question is, irrespective of what color space you convert your footage into, if the timeline color space is set to DWG Intermediate and the output is set to Rec.709 Gamma 2.4, is there a need to convert to DWG during the workflow? I'm looking at a 100% Rec.709 BenQ SW270C monitor(Factory Calibrated) Also, does my workflow make any sense to you? Tell me if I'm wrong
Ditto for me. Thank you the great content. Just watched a few so far and they were game changers for my understanding of the colourspaces in Resolve. Thanks!
Incredible video. I've taken several masterclasses on grading and none have tackled color space as eloquently and to the point as this video.Thanks, man!
thank you i finally after lot of tutorial understoud the logic of that
When I irate got into davinci a few weeks ago,I loved it and I watched this video but coming from Final Cut Pro,it didn't make too much sense, now I have been learning more about davinci I came back to this video and realised a few or many things I had no idea about that definitely was hindering my gradet lol,thanks.
Incredibly useful and well explained for a novice like me.
This video is fantastic! Thank you so much! I also have a question, please. I film myself, for my YT videos, using my Logitech HD webcam. I have been trying to find information on what colour space the footage is in. Do you know how I can find this information out, please?
best for today
pls make a tutorial about bit rate
Hi Darren. Thank you for putting this videon together. Between this one and the other two CST videos I think I am getting it. One question... around the 10:20 when you switched the timeline color space from DWG why wasn't in necessary to change the input on the CST (last node) from Sony to DWG as well? Thanks in advance. Kind regards. Todd
Thank you very much! I don't think I understand why it's beneficial to have the timeline colour space in a wider space than Rec709 yet. Could you please clarify?
Darren, why you don't talk about Rec709-A for successful color on Mac ? As i seen - you work on Mac OS. And with Rec709-A you have same gamma/contrast and color in QuickTime Player and in Davinci Resolve. In this case you have 1-1-1 code points, but in case with Rec709 Gamma 2.4 on Mac you have 1-2-1 code points and different color and gamma in QuickTime Player or Web Browser (Safari) and Davinci Resolve Viewer.
Hello Sir! I have watched all of your CST and color management videos however, couldn't find the answer to my old question which is if I grade on my macbook M1 pro using it's screen, should I use Rec 709a? as I get fairly faded colors after export while using gamma 2.4
ACES or die baby! Just kidding, but I do mainly grade in davinci wide gamut, and deliver in 709 for consistency across screens
that means when I want to use a LUT for my slog3 footage, I have to let the color science on Davinci YRGB, because when I use the Color Managed option, I do have to select a input color space?
Work with as much headroom(wide gamut) as possible, than compress(709) for broadcasting media.
Like, making a Wave audio file to a MP3 for easier transmission and storage.
Audio comparisons are helpful.
Really easy to follow and well explained Darren.
For some that don't know what rec709 ( scene ) is:
The rec709( Scene) is the color space that most cameras give to rec709 - which was developed before the standards of 2.4 gamma was established in BT1886 which is the recommended gamma for High Definition flat panel displays.
Macs however still returns generic rec709 tags to gamma 1.96 which is the problem that many Mac users, that use their GUI for monitoring run into, where the preview in Quicktime doesn't match the GUI in Resolve. Should be noted that Mac users do have in Preferences to have Resolve automatically change input rec709 ( scene ) to rec709-a on input.
Just thought I would note that for people that want to dig into this deeper.
The mac colorsync gamma of non meta tagged or mistagged gamma issue is one of the most asked problems in the Resolve forums - almost daily.
I feel like that could be an addendum to this video you have done here, because to understand the issue, you need to understand all these terms and how they relate. To which you have laid out a foundation to explain and attempt to fix that issue. ( spoiler alert - it can't totally be fixed, but can be tamed )
Anyway thanks for putting out another quality video regarding color and the tools we use to work with them.
Although, I know the CST method is sound that you use ( and others ) I still wonder why we don't establish the correct color space at the front of the node tree and then add a CST at the end to send to display? I know that you are working with the tools under the display CST but can't understand how Resolve knows what space it is, without telling it what space? In almost every case in Resolve it doesn't process backwards - so logically if the colorspace hasn't yet been established, you are working under the CST, but in what space? I asked Cullen this and he does it the way you have illustrated here. Not sure I communicated the question properly though. Anyways glad to see another Mostyn tutorial. Made my Monday more interesting to say the least. Cheers.
Thanks Jim for your fine in depth and much welcomed synopsis....good reading! I guess that you could put a CST at the front and send its output to match the timeline settings and then at the end have the input be your timeline settings mapped to output ? I'll play with that. However I have different CST's set for each colour space on input - I dont use one generic, so Im telling Resolve what the input is on a clip by clip basis. You can also set NODES to behave in a color space just to throw another obstacle in the way. This hope fully explains the timeline color concept without confusing too many and of course CST workflow is the obstacle for me and you! We should, just work color manged really! Thanks for your support and I did promise a healthier episode this time than the last one I did!! All the best mate, Darren.
Regarding the CST method you mention in the end here, are you referring to a node based color management? With an IN node (from camera colorspace to working colorspace) in the very beginning, and then an OUT node (from working color space to display) at the very end? That’s the way I work and although it requires setting it up, that can be done very quickly, and then I’m in total control of the pipeline (which always feels good). Maybe I’m wrong, but I feel many colorists is doing it this way?
And that’s another thing about CM. This is all fairly “new” grounds to even the most experienced digital colorists when you relate it to the fact that film is hundreds of years old but digital colorgrading is still in its infancy. Everybody is learning, new stuff comes out and that’s one of the reasons that tutorials like this one is so valuable.
No, Scene is linear light scene, not display linear light. It uses OETF to convert to linear, not EOTF. When you color manage you are supposed to operate on scene linear light and only change to display linear light in the end. In fact you can display using scene light but you will have to match conditions outside and remove all glare from the sun. For a long time 2.35 which is after round on Sony LCDs became 2.4 was the only standard there is for TVs. It all got confusing when EOTF of sRGB was introduced.
Thanks Jim! I was JUST going to ask about rec709 scene. Darren, excellent as always! See you next time!
@@Resolve_This your workflow is done by many colorists to ensure that the wheels and other controls always behave the same.
Clearly demonstrated and beautifully articulated tutorial.
It makes sense that working in DaVinci WideGamut in the timeline would give you more leeway and room to work worth. Perhaps I am missing something... but if you're going to deliver in Rec709 Gamma 2.4, and clipping would occur on the delivered file, wouldn't it be better to just work in Rec709 in the timeline to know exactly what you are going to get on the final output?
Is it not a choice between where the clipping will occur: the timeline or output?
Thanks for clarifying, and for your excellent tutorials. They are a joy to watch.
Darren, you’re a complete and utter star. Your tutorials are so wonderfully simple. Plus, I love the fact that you don’t do the American-style 10 minute intros explaining what you’re about to do. You just jump right in. Thanks so much. John
Glad you like them John. Appreciated. New episide coming very soon!
Those damn Yanks
Can I ask - in the last CST work flow you were using, the CST node is last. If the timeline colourspace is DWG, why is the input for the CST node not selected as DWG, but just the original footage space?
Thanks for this Darren! Great explanation.
So, question: (for the sake of brevity, Rec 709 Gamma 2.4 = Rec while DaVinci Wide Gamut Intermediate = DWGI)
Let's assume source is BRAW from a Pocket 4K. Timeline is set to Rec and my output is set to Rec. It makes sense that everything will look the same from timeline to display. Same color space. So I push the exposure on the clouds like you did and get clipping. Right.
Now change the timeline like you did to DWGI and the clipping on the monitor changes.
This makes sense with a larger color space.
However, this is where it's not making sense: If my output is still Rec, how does the larger timeline color space back off on the clipping and then deliver this to a Rec output color space including more detail than the Rec timeline was able to do?
Does my question make sense? It seems like the Rec output should reintroduce that clipping.
The transforms that davinci uses to step down from a big colorspace and dynamic range to a smaller colorspace and dynamic range are rolling off highlights to preserve detail, which the curves or HDR wheels don't do on their own.
The video conflates gamut and transfer function - two totally separate attributes. The gamut differences shown using the CIE diagram are not at all the reason that his changing the timeline color space resulted in the brightness range difference of the image. What made the difference is the 100 nit max of SDR REC709 gamma 2.4 vs the 1000nit max to which he set it when using Davinci Intermediate/Davinci Wide Gamut.
That is a fair point however doesn't alter what the timeline colour space is for - I got unlucky I guess as was trying to show that the curves are color space aware only in RCM, had I adjusted temperature for eg you would see that the DWG makes a difference beyond the 100 - 1000 nits. A very hard episode to make this one. Thanks anyway James. The INPUT to TIMELINE does work in a larger colour space and not just nit level. All the best. Darren
@@DarrenMostyn You do great work! Serious props to you for making these videos and sharing them. Yes, this was a tough one. I realize the gamut also makes a difference. It's just that difference wasn't what was being demonstrated in the brightness changes to the image on screen in your video. Resolve itself shouldn't be defaulting to conflating gamut and gamma, and instead should default to having them as separate attributes (and Resolve should also be using the correct term transfer function instead of persisting in labelling it gamma). Too many users never realize because the separation of those distinct attributes remains hidden behind a check box.
Great Tutorial, could you please give a brief explanation of why there’s such a big difference when setting the output gammas when working natively on mac screens (macbooks), since the only colourspace that gives accurate results is rec.709-A and all the others are way off in contrast ?
I was in need of a refresher to solidify my understanding for a project, so came back to watch this for, I think, the fourth time. This is an exceptional tutorial about color spaces, what they are, their relationship to each other, and how to work with and in them. You get an amazing amount of information into eleven minutes -- all of it perfectly clear. Thank you.
Great to hear! Thanks Adam. Really appreciated. Hoping to get another one out this week before resolveCon.
Thank you Darren, this is currently the BEST video on RUclips to explain how to get the most gamma from multiple cameras within the timeline/deliver colour space. Nobody ever mentions non log (baked in) footage, and/or multiple camera formats. Don't know why it's never mentioned because in real world video editing tasking it happens more often than not. There are far too many videos about LOG footage grading and colour space set ups, so this video is very refreshing and certainly much needed. Thanks again. Great advice on a fantastic channel. Would love to also see a video dedicated ONLY to working with NON LOG (baked in) footage to get the most from the available gamma. Currently a video does not exist on RUclips. Crazy.
this is the best color space tutorial i have seen. thank you for making it so easy and understandable
You're very welcome Ronald! Just pinned your comment -appreciated.
Hi Darren, what a great explanation on such a underrated topic.
To be honest, it took me more than a year to get familiar with the concept of the 3 different color spaces and what those are about.
In the meantime, I tend do prefer the non-managed color science DaVinci YRGB, timeline colors space ARRI-Log C (for it's lovely highlight rolloff) to deliver in Rec709 Gamma 2.4
By the time you are reading this comment dear people, you probably just realized, that prior to this you have crawled through the offers of all those Dunnig-Kruger aka Armchair Experts and also probably, like I, are right now laying on the floor and thanking the universe, that there actually is a person in this world who know what he is talking about. Also, it appears to me, that there is a whole breed calling themselves "color grader", cause they missed out on all the basics, found a workaround and try to sell you their LUTs now.
Thank you mister, very much for this video.
Amen to that, sums up my feelings exactly.
Thanks! You did a great job with this and I hope I understood correctly. So, can you please clarify that the view and corrections seen in a wide gamut timeline will correctly translate to a REC 709 output? Also, I think I've broken the code with the help of other videos I've watched but a common complaint is the difference in saturation seen in output files when compared to the timeline. I'm referring to using the Mac OS.
Yes, correct, but the MAC oSX thing is something else. see this video maybe to help ruclips.net/video/miMFE95G0kU/видео.html
@@DarrenMostyn Thanks, that was helpful and got right to the issue and fix!
I've been doing a lot of research on this exact subject and have found it hard to keep up, but this video REALLY helped clear things up for me and I m so glad I've subscribed! Definitely will be referring back to this from time to time and thank you for making this and thank you for explaining this is a concise way!
Glad it was helpful. I work hard to give the best explanations I can based on real broadcast scenarios that I come across every day. Happy to share. Apprectiate your kind comments and of course your subscription shows appreciation the best for me.
now I understand why all the footage not coming out of a top studio looks so shitty. black magic put up a color management that all these people just have no clue. phew man if only people understood that changing the color space doesn't mean the clip is at any kind of color standard. it just a basic value change.
Honestly this was something I didn’t know that I didn’t know, thank you for enlightening me.
Great content, and I appreciate how to the point you explained everything.
Great demonstrations as well!
Glad to hear it! Appreciated Arthur.
exactly only Darren wishes us to understand, the others are protecting their jobs, whilst flattering their own egos.
So if youre shooting with just 1 camera, shooting in the same color space, you could skip the CST step by setting up the color management section accordingly, neat!
correct
To be honest this is the only source of information worth listening too. Clear explanations has really gone a long way to helping me!
Thanks Darren, a patient explanation of a tricky subject. Appreciated as always.
Thank you - was a tricky one to plan this one, Hope it worked!! All the best and thanks again. darren
I had to watch it maybe three times to stick with me since I'm still at exploring colour grading, but every video I watch of your channel I feel like I'm closer to becoming a great colourist such as yourself! Awesome video Darren, thank you so much for sharing all your knowledge about it!
+1 Great teacher but this one vid needs a few rewinds.
For my thesis/research paper, I am still comparing color handling and approaches in different software and production environments. Its really frustrating to see many aspects are really only documented in terms of workflow steps and not in terms of exact technical nuance. (Critique is not geared towards you, but towards software/hardware manufacturers, including Blackmagic. You are working with what we got, I like your work.) In my current view of the analysis, multi-software color management needs more momentum towards open architectures and completely published profiles, better technical and theoretical agreements (keywords: relative and absolute scene-referred, color management systems vs workflows and color appearance models and the idea of what a "neutral digital image" is), as well as consistent use and implementation of labels describing any arbitrary operation that changes the appearance of color (directly and indirectly).
Well, Davinci follows standards very well.
@@lolerie I would suggest try using specific color appearance models or workflows in your color management approach (e.g. TCAM2), or try using BM camera profiles/transforms in software outside of Resolve. Or try using OCIO in Resolve. I can might agree many different standards are met, but its always a question what variable we are testing. And Davinci/BM, like many others, is definitely not a golden standard regarding documenting or publishing the exact math & algorithms applied.. especially regarding "color management"
@@BlackPantherElite well, ACES 1.3 should be very good, using CAMs in production is very dangerous though (latest big things is Oklab space, then CIECAM16 and IPT are all quite unstable, IPT of dolby vision maybe less so).
@@lolerie depends on your vantage point, but ACES, even 1.3, most definitely is not even being used in big productions but reversed, as Kevin demonstrated the working group in a meeting. I can also document this after numerous interviews with supes and tds on productions, but you are free to use what ever you want. My other points regarding OCIO implementation and publishing of profiles and other important info still stands. Our survey analyzed roughly 400 workflows in different production environments. But we are just analyzing and evaluating, not giving recommendations.
And your point on not using CAMs - take a look at what ACES does and wants to do, their documentation, RRT, transform concept, and discussions on ACEScentral are quite telling.
@@BlackPantherElite ACES 1.3 is literally 20 or so standards of SMPTE, Davinci released 1.3 support first! It is used by MANY many people. In Hollywood too. In other countries too. In fact look it up on RUclips.
If you could do a basic down to earth tutorial on how to setup Davinci on modern mac computer with a P3 wide gamut display to work with mixed input projects (like iphone HLG, GoPro SDR, Sony Slog, etc) and output a/ rec.709 SDR for RUclips, b/HDR for RUclips - WE WOULD BE THANKFUL FOREVER. Currently RUclips is a scene where every beginner Davinci editor puts up his wildest guesses on how he thinks he can get adequate conversions of colorspaces on mixed footage, but its a complete mess.
There seems to be a LOT of interest for this. Thank you for posting.
Darren, I have worked in production for a long while now. Your videos are on an another level, especially here on YT. Well done.
Thanks for the video Darren. I am working color managed for a while now. I have set my monitors and project to rec 709 gamma 2.4. I am working on MacOS and I noticed a gamma shift when I upload my final grades to vimeo. So I changed my output color space to Rec709-A. The gamma shift is gone but I do wonder if this is the right way to handle the problem. Does this mean I still have to export a rec709 gamma 2.4 version for broadcasting or screens? I hope you can help me with this.
Thank you for asking this.
Hi Darren. Love your stuff, but I have a bit of an issue with this one. Mainly what you did is really a demo of the HDR to SDR tone mapping, not anything to do with color gamut sizes.
The highlight detail you see coming back is because switching over to Davinci WG/Intermediate automatically switches the default "Timeline working luminance" to "HDR 1000". Which is moving your luminance ceiling up, and tone mapping it back down to the 100 nit output. But if you set the working luma back to "SDR 100" it will look exactly the same in both Rec709 or Davinci WG working space. And alternatively, staying in a Rec709 working space and just switching the working luminance to HDR 1000 will give you identical tone mapping.
That is a fair point however doesn't alter what the timeline colour space is for - I got unlucky I guess as was trying to show that the cureves are color space aware only in RCM, had I adjusted temperature for eg you would see that the DWG makes a difference beyond the 100 - 1000 nits. A very hard episode to make this one. Thanks anyway Jeremy. The INPUT to TIMELINE does work in a larger space and not just nit level. All the best. Darren
I don't see the point if the final output is constrained to what it would be with a Rec709 timeline? What am I missing?
@@davidpringuer3553 my thoughts exactly
Does the automatic working luminance at HDR 1000 affect the export - when uploading to RUclips the gamma has shifted and everything is a lot brighter/washed out and colour shift :(
So, if i got you right, in case we are working in Davinchi WideGamut we can use HDR wheels, but in case we are working rec709 (which is set by default), there are no point in HDR wheels and we should use Primeries only. Correct?
No you can use HDR wheels, just be aware of what color space they are set to. They are SDR and REC709 compatible and I recommend them too. Hope that helps. Darren
I don't know why I get weird results with the Canon CLOG3 and cinema gamuts. It just seems to darken everything by about 4 f stops and looses data. I end up colour grading everything manually as the LUTs, transforms etc just don't seem to work right with Canon footage, no matter what I select in various settings.
@Darren Mostyn
This may be a stupid question. But what color space do you put the timeline in if you haven't shot in log or raw and have shot with the standard non-log profile of a camera?
Also do you need to shoot in log if you are for example shooting a timelapse photo sequence using RAW photo stills?
Thank you for the video. But I cun't find the answer to the main qiestion - in which color space should I export video for youtube to make it in youtube the same as in my monitor? RUclips distirted colors in my videos. How to avoid it?
why would input color space stay at rec 709 for that slog clip? shouldn't he change the input color space to slog 3? am i the only one with his decoder ring out watching this over again? mostly really clear to me though.
also, if you use Cine 2. what is the input and output color space and gamma? is that just rec 709?
Hi Teh. If you watch it again you’ll see that I do change the input colour space to Slog3 at 2.20 (ish). You can set to slog2 if you need to. Hope that helps. Darren
I presume I must adjust my Eizo display to the REC 709 color profile to grade accurately? ( Rec.ITU-R BT.709-5 and Rec.ITU-R BT.2020-1 are two that are is offered in the drop down menu. ) Thank you
if delivering 709 then you want BT.709 on your menu yes. Still igyt be off calibration though , but a good starting point!
Excellent. Thank you @@DarrenMostyn
Hi Darren, great content , just a quick question, if my timeline is rec 709 , what color space should be my calibrated monitor rec709 or full gamut (in my case 100% adobe RGB) ? thanks
Same question
So am I right that using a CST at the end or using a color managed workflow is going to be the same result?
“This will all make sense in a minute” - gave me a chuckle 😂 great explanation, thanks Darren
Hello Darren! Thanks so much for sharing all your tutorials. Your resources have only been very helpful and nothing less.
I noticed that you’re working on a Mac OS. I’ve done extensive research and testing when it comes to matching color from a working monitor for web deliveries/passing to other visual artists on a Mac (Rec709 2.4 VS Rec709-A). I have to mention that I do not have an I/O device as a reference monitor. As we know it, BM released a REC709-A to correct the mac display to match deliveries which introduces it’s own set of workarounds to be aware of. On the other hand, I could use a viewing monitoring LUT (Rec709 2.4 gamma -> REC709-A) in the settings to match what I see on my working monitor with the end delivery when working in 2.4 gamma. I work on a Mac Studio paired with a Studio Display.
My question is, since you’re working on a strictly REC709 2.4 gamma (generally speaking) project output - was there anything you did to get your working monitor to match your I/O device since Apple’s Colorsync does change gamma (I’m assuming this question would be relevant if it’s a Mac monitor or if it’s a monitor connected to your Apple workstation)? Or the universal question would be, how does your setup work to get the right gamma display on the working monitor on an Apple machine?
All answered on this episode. ruclips.net/video/miMFE95G0kU/видео.html
Thanks for this Darren. I watched this again just to make sure but it’s my curiosity that strikes me. May I ask, with your current setup - does your I/O device/monitor match the gamma of your working monitor without having to tweak/set anything?
I ask this because on my working monitor (Apple Studio Display), the gamma shifts (darker) and the export is brighter. A viewing LUT (rec709 2.4 -> rec709-A) helps me match what I’m seeing to what I’m actually exporting. I’m not sure if this only happens exclusively on Apple monitors, so I was curious to know if:
- You’re using a non apple monitor as your working monitor, and/or;
- Whether calibrating the working monitor corrects what you’re supposed to be looking at (as it may bypass the GPU color processing or alter it to the desired viewing)
Thanks for these precise tutorial, Can we get any benefit on changing the timeline luminance from 1000 to 2000,4000 or more? ( Can we get more dynamic range for the luminance)
I'm an Adobe PP user trying to work up the motivation to move to Davinci -when Adobe "fixed" their HDR workflow, it threw me into a tailspin and ruined all of my projects for nearly 2 months while I wasted countless hours on the internet trying to figure out what I was doing "wrong"... while frustrating, it forced me to try and learn color spaces. This was a little over a year ago, and they've since made the SLOG3 workflow functional -but it still sucks really bad.
This video has helped TREMENDOUSLY and has given me a bit moar motivation to finally make the big switch to Davinci. I'd be lying though, if I didn't say that I"m cautious of switching... The trend these days for companies is to sh.t on their customers after they've captured their intended marketshare, and further monetize (the already frustrating) interaction with their software.
ive been on resolve for over 14 years. I unsubscribed from Adobe Cloud over a year ago. Im happy.
Great video Darrin. I just downloaded Davinci two weeks ago and this has helped me a lot in my start here.
One question: what's the difference between the "input color space" within the Project Settings and "input color space" at a node-base level?
I see that the "input color space" in the project settings is Rec709 Gamma 2.4, but you again had to identify the "input color space" on the clip to Slog. Then at the node-base level, the "input color space" is no longer Rec709 Gamma 2.4 rather Sony S-Gamut3.Cine. Am I missing something?
Darren liked it but didn't answer, because you called him "Darrin" dude... At least I don't see other explanations.... ahaha
Thanks Darren As Always A Breeze of Great Information, Thanks For Your Continuous Support For All Of Us Here!
So before we start a project, switch Timeline Color Space to Davinci WG and Output Color Space to Rec 709 Gamma 2.4?
Hello Darren,
How would you setting up the color management for CDNG files..?
Another good video!
Darren- in another one of your great videos, when in 'YRGB non colored managed', you apply a CST node before (Camera>DWG) and then a CST node after (DWG>709 2.4). In this video, why are you only applying a CST node after your grading?
Also if you have time, is it ok to apply a CST node on a post or pre group level? And what applies first, a 'post-group level' or a 'timeline level'?
Thanks Darren, always a pleasure to see your videos. I am confused thought, in this specific example, what the point to work in a wider color space in order to have more color (the blue in the sky that was previously clipped), what will happen when we will convert it back to our output color space? the blue in the sky that we manage to get, it will be clipped again?
Regarding the grading exposure difference you demonstrated for Davinci Wide Gamut vs Rec.709 timeline color spaces, this doesn't actually clip the grade to the shallower timeline space (Rec.709 in this case). To demonstrate this, if you add a serial node after the exposure node that pushes the highlights beyond clipping, you can bring those highlights back without any loss of information by adjusting the exposure back. This means Resolve is always using high-precision representation of the footage irrespective of the working space employed. The only practical difference in the timeline color space chosen is whether it previews what the clipping would look like - but again, it's not actually clipped if you adjust it back on a subsequent node.
Awesome explanation i just whatch it more than 3 time ....but i have a question about cine 4 .....what about the Cine 4 footage.... what will be input gamma for cine 4 ???....i tried to put input gamma for cine 4 is gamma 2.2 and rec 709 ...but result is not satisfied ......can you help me to clear what it will be ???
Great video,just purchased a dell U4025QW ultra wide 5k monitor to use with DaVinci Resolve,what montor color profile settings would you recommend using ?
Hi Darren. Much obliged to you. I am using an FX6, shooting S-Gamut3.Cine/S-Log3. What is the best color managed input and timeline setting: S-Gamut3.Cine/S-Log3 or S-Gamut3/S-Log 3? See you used S-Gamut3/S-Log 3 on the timeline for this tutorial. And the best CST setting? In your earlier video on grading Slog footage from the FX6, you had S-Gamut3.Cine/S-Log3 in the input color space for the CST. Thanks so much!
Sorry if my question is simple, but if I have a generic camera (Panasonic FZ2500 with CineDLike profile) that would be in REC709 color space, edit it in the timeline with a wider color space like Davince wide, and then render it on REC709 for RUclips. My color grading would be narrowed down for the output space so the video will look overexposed (as in the example of the sky)?
I have a very noob question: why not just work within the constraints of a Rec.709 timeline colour space, if you're outputting to Rec.709 anyway, instead working in a bigger space like shown in this video?
Like if you use a wider colour space, you can push your grading parameters further before things start clipping. But don't you get the same result in a smaller space by just not pushing your parameters as far? I fully assume I'm missing something here, so clarification would be very welcome :)
Best video on Color Management workflow!
I do have one question, though:
Once you set your Timeline Color Space to Davinci Wide Gamut Intermediate 10:12 to get the best, let's say, "headroom" for color correction tools... shouldn't you modify the input settings on the CST node? Or is it independent from the input/output settings?
Let's say I want to output (that is, visualise in my Rec.709 monitor AND deliver/render) in SDR 709, but I want to work on my footage in the widest color space (and dynamic range) possible to avoid clipping and use the color tools comfortably. Should I set:
- Unmanaged (Davinci YRGB)
- Timeline Color Space to Davinci Wide Gamut Intermediate
- Output Color Space to Rec.709 Gamma 2.4 (or Scene, what's the difference?)😂
- CST node (last) to every clip with correspondent camera Input Color Space and Gamma (E.G. Sony Cine + Sony Slog3), Rec.709 2.4 Output AND Davinci Tone Mapping (to correlate to the DV Wide Gamut Intermediate setting in Timeline Color Space)???
I'm hoping this makes any sense 😂
Thanks Darren. Brilliant tutorial. Have you created any tutorials on exporting transcoded HDR log in Rec 709 projects? I followed your helpful settings/workflow recommendations for the rec 709 color grade of a no budget documentary I'm working on. I'm very happy with the results on my MacBook Pro M3 Max monitor and other Apple devices, but when exported the video has too much contrast, is over lit and has washed out colors when viewed on Rec 709 TVs and projectors. I filmed the footage using HLG BT2020 on a Sony full frame camera because I understood it was developed for seamless integration between HDR and SDR. HLG is certainly much easier to color grade than S, C and D-log footage. But, I've struggled with the transcoded Rec 709 color grade on both Davinci and Final Cut Pro.
Very clear explanation. Thanks for this. So is the recommendation for the "timeline color space" to always match the "input color space" (if all the footage is from the same camera) or the Davinci WG/Intermediate color space vs working in the Rec709 color space? Also, is working in color managed better than doing a CST? Seems a lot more work to do a CST versus working in color managed. But do you get more control if you are applying the CST per clip?
Hi Darren. I edit on a mac. Would you setup the color space to 2.4 or 709.A? Some people say the latter, but I cannot find the correct answer. My monitors are just standard rec 709. Thank you in advance.
Darren, I use Davinci Resolve on a Macbook M1 Max and I have a problem with color shift when I upload my videos to RUclips- the videos look less saturated after I upload them. In this case, would you recommend changing the output color space to sRGB instead of Rec.709? I've also heard about using Rec.709-A. What are your thoughts on that compared to the sRGB and Rec.709? I feel so confused about this. I'd be very grateful for your insight.🙂
That's great but I still have one question. If I'm in a color managed environment with input color space "SLog3", timeline colorspace "Davinci Wide Gamut" and output colorspace "Rec709", how do I use film luts like the Kodak ones? I use a CST from "Timeline colorspace" to "Rec709/Cineon Film Log", then I apply my lut in the next node and in a third node I make a CST from "Rec709/Gamut 2.4" back again to the "timeline colorspace". Because I assume the signal from the last node must be in the timeline colorspace again so that Davinci transforms it back to the needed output colorspace. Is my approach correct?
THANK YOU a lot for an answer here!
If you dont have a special grading monitor is OUTPUT COLOR SPACE still rec709 Gamma 2.4?
THANK YOU FOR THIS VIDEO!!!!
Two Questions: I am currently using a non-log camera. Will this method work to properly convert sRGB/RGB into rec709 so the colors can be deep, vibrant, and pop more like on more modern cameras?
Also I'm using an M1 mac laptop that has a rec709 display setting. Do you feel that is optimal for that color space or should I invest in a separate monitor?
This video covers grading rec709 - Pro Colorist on 8-bit & Phone Footage - How to make it WORK!
ruclips.net/video/BZqe9jXgPLg/видео.html
This video covers monitir question. Does an IO Device Give Me Better Quality than my Computer Output ?
ruclips.net/video/miMFE95G0kU/видео.html
@@DarrenMostyn thank you so much for the information!!! Hopefully I can really get my colors to stand out.
You have definitely earned a subscriber b/c I didn't realize how much more I had to learn.
Help me please.! Anyone.
What are the render settings for your videos. I am getting pixelated and blurred video uploads after uploading to RUclips. I've tried almost everything.
Camera Used - BMPCC4K & Davinci Resolve for Color grading.
Render Setting I used - Quicktime - H.264/H.265, 1080p, bitrate - 50000kbps and above, even tried CBR instead of default VBR.
RUclips is using Codec - VP09 instead of av01, similar to the other professional video uploads. So there is no problem there.
I've even tried uploading 4K/2K video, tried different codecs like DNXHR, and others. But I'm getting similar results. I'm not new to editing videos. I am learning from more than 3 years, but I,m stuck here.
Super helpful thank you. I already watched the main video too but have a question. I edit on an M1 Base Model MacBook Air. My Colour Profile on my display is set to "Colour LCD" by default. I want to edit in the Wide Colourspace you mention but you always mention the output at 2.4 gamma. What should I be using on my MacBook as I don't have an external display and want to make sure I am editing correctly. thanks
Hi Darren. Very helpful but I have a question regarding gamma 2.4. I see you are on a Mac. Do you have a video on why you use Gamma 2.4 vs Rec 709A?
Does it matter what color profile your monitor has? I'm on a apple studio display and the default profile is "Apple Display (P3-600 nits)". Does it matter if I keep that or should I change it to "HDTV Video (BT.709-BT.1886)"? Why does this matter? I mean I'm making videos that will be shown on monitors/web where monitors are not using the BT.709 profile. Probably a newbie question. But oh well 🙂
Great video! Question: If I work on a Mac, should I set output color space to Rec 709 A instead of rec 709 gamma 2.4 with the NON cst workflow?
Using BMPCC 4k with Film log.
If I want to use an ARRI CLOG4 LUT in my workflow (while working with mixed footage), does the following make sense?:
Setting: Resolve color managed, DWG timeline, 709 output
Node structure: CC/grade - CST (Use timeline- > CLOG4) - CLOG4 LUT - CST (CLOG4 -> Use Timeline)
?
Really helpful video, thanks Darren. A rather basic question: what is the difference between Rec709(Scene) and Rec709 Gamma 2.4? Does it matter which one you use? I shot the footage with a Canon EOS-R with Picture Style Neutral, rather than C-log.
Hi Darren, thank you for your video, it's incredibly clear and really helpful!
I'm using RED footage and I have a doubt regarding some parameters, maybe you have an answer!
Projects Settings-->Color Management: I set the parameters like I understood watching your video. Ok.
Projects Settings-->Camera Raw-->Project Settings: what exactly am I setting in this panel?
I see again the parameters "Color science", "Color space" and "Gamma curve". Haven't I already set them in the Color Management panel?
Thank you so much, please keep doing your amazing tutorials!
Hi Darren, i am a little confused still. I prefer to use the Input color space method as oppose to CST... however, when I use Input Color Space (Davinci YRGB Color Manage). Automatic color management. my Clog3 footage (canon R6II) doesn't seem to have any effect. is it because it's not RAW? Can i stay on Automatic color management? or do i need to go into custom like you. Can you not do anything with CST? or is that necessary as part of the workflow? or is it one or the other?
Can you please make a video tutorials for Drone fly above clouds using DaVinci resolve 18 not aftereffects.
Unlikely but thanks for the request!!
Can you use color management and CST together? For example, color management can be used for the input color space as Rec.709 gamma 2.2, timeline color space as DaVinci WG, and output as Rec.709 gamma 2.2. This would convert your P3-D65 footage into the DaVinci WG working space and display it in Rec.709 gamma 2.2 on your monitor. Can you then add a CST to convert with input color space, input gamma, and output color space set as the timeline, with the output gamma as Cineon log? After that, can you add another node and apply a Rec.709 Kodak 2383 D65 LUT? Would that be the correct workflow?
Thus for A7S3 recordings in S-Log 3 / color mode S-Gamut3.cine
A: project setting / color management
B: node 1 = CST
C: node x at the end = LUT
A: Davinci YRGB colormanaged / custom / input color space: Rec 709 gamma 2.4 / timeline color space: DaVinci WG/intermediate / HDR 1000
B: node1 = CST
input color space = use timeline ? or what ? Sony S Gamut3.Cine ?
output color space = use timeline ? or what ?
output gamma = use timeline ? or what ?
C: node at the end = LUT , e.g. Phantom LUT Arri "neutral" or "Sony\Slog3SGamut3-Cine TolC-709Type A"
Ask:
what settings must be made at node CST if settings as under A?
Is node 1 with CST even required? I would be happy for an answer.
Hmm on the csts: Why did you not create the node tree like that:
1st node:
Input color space: Sony S-Gamut3.Cine
Input Gamma: Sony S-Log3
Output Color Space: DaVinci Wide Gamut
Output Gamma: DaVinci Intermediate
2nd-5th and more node- parallel: Exposure, Saturation, Skin tone etc.
6th node:
Input color space: DaVinci Wide Gamut
Input Gamma: DaVinci Intermediate
Output Color Space: Sony S-Gamut3.Cine
Output Gamma: Sony S-Log3
7th node:
Input color space: Sony S-Gamut3.Cine
Input Gamma: Sony S-Log3
Output Color Space: Rec.709
Output Gamma: Gamma 2.4
Is it not necessary to create a first node converting the input to working color space which is DaVicni Wide Gamut. Davinic Resolve handle it better by itself under the hood?
Really helpful tutorial and interesting to see the non-linear effects in action.
One thing that I find slightly confusing about davinci is the use of the term 'colorspace' to mean 'colorspace and gamma'. I do understand why this is technically correct, but it creates misunderstandings, like when you showed the colour diagram as an explanation for the non-linear effects. Really its the expanded tonal range of the timeline space driving this, and to separate that concept from 'color' would seem like best practice to me, unless I've just got myself confused!
The highlight detail you see coming back is because switching over to Davinci WG/Intermediate automatically switches the default "Timeline working luminance" to "HDR 1000".
Fantastic learning material, really appreciate all the effort you put into making these videos. I work on a MacBook Pro with XDR display - should I be using the HDTV reference mode or the SRGB reference mode to get accurate colours? Cheers!
I follow each and every step, I have three nodes, two first are blank serial nodes and the third serial is my CST. Sony footage, Input color space Sony S-Gamut3.Cine, Input Gamma Sony s-Log3, Output Color Space Rec.709, Output Gamma Gamma 2.4. My project settings are Color science DaVinci YRGB, Timeline color space DV WG/Intermediate, Output color space Rec.709 Gamma 2.4
But, whenever I move from having my third CST node highlighted to node one or two (to grade beneath the CST), I get a flat image again. I can't figure this out. Is there some other settings that I have missed here?
Hi Darren,
So I am working on SLOG3 footage, and I saw in one of your video where in you already preset the Davici wide gamut and Rec704 gamma 2.4 in the color management. Does it means that its okay to start there and continue straight with the CST without playing around with the HDR setting?
How do I find out what's my monitor's colour space? I fiddled with the OSD settings but most related options are greyed out because I have HDR on? What's the process for HDR enabled monitors?
Hey Darren, thanks for the video, this is some great stuff.
I was just curious what I should do if I am working with rec.601 (ntsc smpte-c) footage, in rec 709 space. I've tried selecting smpte-c as the input colour, but it doesn't correctly interpret the 601 space. No matter what I try, It just looks at it like its rec 709 still (the scopes confirm this).
I think the latest update might've borked automatic ycbcr conversion, but I was just curious if you had any solutions for me. Thanks so much for being awesome
Wow! I just learned a TON. Thanks so much!
You are so welcome Juilen-Pier
Great Vid, but running into a lot of trouble using this Method. I am using Panasonic VLOG from a GH5s. First thing to notice is, that when I go into Project Settings/Color Management, I don't get the "Output Color Space" Option. I only get that Option, by going to "Custom" under "Color Processing Mode". When I set all the appropiate (Panasonic V-Gamut/V-Log) the Image in the preview adapts. But when I set timeline color space to Rec.709 Gamma 2.4 and switch it, lets say to Davinci Wide Gamut, there is no visual difference in the displayed Range as it is in this video. If I perform a cst by applying a cst node at the end of then chain and set all parameters (ICS: Panasonic V-Gamut, IG: Panasonic V-Log, OCS: Rec.709, OG:Gamma 2.4) the output adapts and displays the image correctly, but only if the Node with the CST is selected. If I select other nodes to grade, it reverts back to plain V-Log, which actually makes it impossible to grade, since I never the the correct output. Don't know if this makes any sense.
So if I expect to just work with slog3 I wouldnt convert those to DavinciWBGamma?
Brilliant! Thank you. I am having this problem that when I switch to Davinci WG as my timeline color space it makes my gopro footage worse (clipping highlights etc), which is weird to me. As far as I am concerned it should increase my dynamic range not make it smaller. Yet when I change the timeline colorspace to Aces the image becomes better (or at least not worse - can be subtle)
There are so many different color spaces involved here...
1/ the actual color space of the scene, I mean the outside world,
2/ color space of the cam photosites,
3/ color space of the cam's recorded file,
4/ color space of the input in DVR,
5/ color space or the timeline,
6/ color space of your screen (you are working with, in DVR),
7/ color space of the output in DVR,
8/ color space of the export in DVR,
viewing:
9/ color space of the graphic card of your pchc,
10/ color space of the video renderer,
11/ color space of the video projector,
12/ actual color space transformed by the screen.
مشكور على التتوريال، بس ياخي فيك لمحة من ironman ولا عيوني فيها شي😂
Awesome video! Well explained all around! I have a question and you seem to know your color spaces very well. Im on a 2021 MBP with the LG monitor if that info is needed, but no matter what I do when I export to Rec709 2.4 and put the video on RUclips or Vimeo I immediately lose contrast and saturation and it often takes on a slightly greener tint, though it looks fine and proper in Quicktime. From what i have read is that quicktime maintains different metadata that does not pass to Vimeo or youtube, or something boring and technical...
The only fix i have ever found to work and maintain the look i created in Davinci is to use the Import setting of Rec 709 2.4, the Wide Gamut, and the Output to 709-Type A (not 709 2.4) which seems to have zero effect on my coloring abilities within davinci. Is there any reason that i should be using 2.4 over Type-A, and if so how can i maintain my look from start to finish? Thanks in advance, and thanks again for this video.
Thanks for asking this. Any answers?
Great Video, I work with the original Blackmagic Pocket cinema Camera (1080p) and like to use Luts and Film convert, etc. What project settings do you suggest I set and forget??
Hey Darren, thanks for your video !
I have a problem and I searched everywhere without finding any answer...
I have a macbook pro M1 and I shoot with a Sony FX3 in Slog 3.
Recently I changed Davinci settings and checked "Use Mac display color profiles for viewers" because my export looked washed out.
In the project settings, I work with Timeline Color Space : Rec 709-A, same for output color space.
But now, the blacks in my images have some lines in them, as if the blacks are not enough black, I can see some halos growing when I play with the shadows for example.
Do you have an idea of what it is and how to correct that ?
I would be very grateful, thanks !
Darren, just one simple question. What about if I work in a non color space environment and work with nodes. And I use Rec 709 to Davinci wide gamut to Rec. Are my curves then colourspace aware after the Wide gamut node?
Thank's a lot.
greetings Richard