Dune 2 Called Sexist By Dumb Hollywood Critics
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 15 май 2024
- Dune Part 2 starring Timothee Chalamet has received great reviews from both critics and audiences. But despite the massive praise for Dune Part 2 some critics online are choosing to attack the movie for not being diverse enough and being a "White Savior Movie". Which in my opinion is ridiculous and that's why in this video I go over why this argument about Dune Part 2 is ridiculous and this film deserves all the praise it's getting.
Timestamps:
00:00 - Intro
00:56 - He's not a savior
02:33 - Box ticking problem
05:05 - Surface level movies
07:42 - Critics dumb arguments
For business enquiries email: kyle@smallscreenmarketing.com
Read my debut book: jesse-grants-store.creator-sp...
Listen to my podcast: linktr.ee/talkingflicks
Follow on Instagram: / jessegrantt 
Развлечения
They have to attack it. This movie is successful while their trash flopped.
Who is they?
Establishment types, mainly. those pushing wokie agendas and the like. And he's right. The shit released the past three years have flopped for the most part; some made money, but not much.@@adamplentl5588
@@adamplentl5588 The below average Hollywood producers / Shills
@@brandon_Larsen like who specifically?
Exactly.
“Dune is sexist!”
The cast: 🧑🏻👩🏽🧑🏿👩🏾👧🏼🐛
LOL! That worm! :D I use this one: 🪱
The worm is also brown😂😂
Don’t forget, the centipedes are dangerous
Not the big ones, they’re harmless. Watch out for the little ones
@@mousemetal1679 oh thats perfect
@@motordragon1975 usually the prettier it gets the deadlier it is 😏
Ah yes, you can tell Dune is sexist because
1. The emperor of the universe doesn't do anything without consulting his daughter first
2. The main villain is easily manipulated by a woman the first time they meet
3. The hero of the movie is totally controlled by his mother
4. Women are the only people who don't buy into the religious cult hype
5. The entire universe is secretly run by an all-female shadow government
6. Every powerful figure is only there due to selective breeding schemes run by women
7. The hero is chosen due to his ability to handle things only women could handle previously
Okay... but hear me out...
1. Patriarchy
2. Patriarchy
3. Patriarchy
4. Patriarchy
5. Patriarchy
6. Patriarchy
7. Patriarchy
I'm obviously joking (and people who don't click "read more" on my comment will think this was a serious comment).
Your comment is perfection and needs way more attention.
But you see, the women control everything from the shadows. In a non sexist story they would lead from the front. /Sarcasm
I was going to comment with points 5 and 6 but you did much better and added all other positives of the story. Thank you!
Sometimes don’t be too quick to judge
Ah yes, Paul is a "White male saviour" and totally didn't start like a holy war in that movie that lasts for more than a decade and causes the death of over 60 billion people. That would be very un-saviour like of Paul.
Yeah the whole point of Dune is to shit on the white savior trope. As Herbert always said “never trust a charismatic leader.”
@@Linklex7 He more accurately said that charismatic leaders were dangerous, not because you couldn't trust them, but because their followers tend to obey them blindly, lose all autonomy of thinking and end up as fanatical mindless brutes, easy targets for corrupted people speaking *on behalf* of the charismatic leader. It's more a warning about *our* flaws than a warning against messiahs themselves.
In Dune, Paul is written as a perfectly decent, likeable character whose all actions are rightfully justified and yet, consequences are catastrophic because of the Fremen seeing him as a divine being.
Umm actually it was 61 billion , do your research🤓
He was Dark Olive skin tonned guy in Novel. It's only bad if white characters got played by Non-whites but whites can easily engulf Brown characters like nothing?
@@user-be3js8im3p Where does the book say that again? I know it describes him as 'a small build, with black hair, "an oval face", "long lashes", "thin nose", and a strong bone structure.' And there are a few other descriptions, but im not sure if his skin colour was directly mentioned in the book?
They're calling it sexist because its a movie you can watch for 3 hours and completely forget about the rest of the world. They dont want you to do that
a movie that is genuinely deep and intricate, made with care? we can’t have that in our beautiful hollywood!
They also don't want you to see the true rest of the world. They want you to just see how the world looks like in their imagination.
Exactly instead of using Herberts books to promote some sort of agenda Villeneuve did his best to respect the source material and make a film to please both those who've read the book and those who haven't. He honestly is one of the best modern day film makers. He'll be looked at in company with the likes of Kubrick and Spielberg in the future.
@pattern_world_clockwork6812 I have not read the books. I actually knew little to nothing about dune a week ago. Watched part 1 several times last week and part 2 over the weekend. Completely fell in love. Haven't fallen in love with a source material like this since I was a young boy watching the star wars prequels. Really made me feel something special.
upset about there being no fremen in wheelchairs
I read Dune. The women were strong in their own right, flawed like all the characters in the story.
Exactly I don’t see any way this movie could be attacked!
The Entire Story of Dune happens because a Woman loved a Man more than the organization she worked for. It is outright told to the readers in future books as the BG try to train and breed out this trait of "Love"
Jessica Loved Leto Leads to Paul. Paul's love for Chani Leads to the God Emperor (Leto II). Leto II fell in love and it started the next step (the great scattering). At this point the BG see the greatest common denominator and start trying to train against allowing Love to control your actions.
That and Other that the Kwisatz Haderach, Women (BG) are the most powerful beings in the universe. THEY created Paul.
@@thejessegrant You can't have that though, because women are 100% perfect, 100% of the time. 😉
Flawed women? Character arcs? Eeeeeew!
wait til get to Alia, Ghanima & (fingers-crossed Siona)..
I am a black person and when I saw the “white savior allegations” regarding Dune 2 I first had laugh out loud for a few seconds and then could not stop shaking my head in disbelief for several minutes.
Who ever makes such stupid remarks clearly wasn’t smart enough to understand the movie or has some other dishonest agenda.
If someone has not watched the movie yet, go find a cinema with the biggest screen in your area and enjoy this masterpiece. Do not let the critics stop you.
The problem of racism simply never went away. The thinking in groups. We are good, they are bad. Looking beyond a frontier has always been difficult for mankind and seems never to go away. While in the past people mainly saw color, people today dont meet on the street and instead categorise in "left" and "right" and "woke" and "sexist" and as many people are, there is no grey for them. Be on my side completely or you are bad. Be white or you are bad. Be right (or left) or you are bad. So things have to be simple. Dune is clearly a movie about a white savior. Its about a prophecy that says a prophet from the outside will come and safe indigenous people. So, people make up their minds. After that it would be crossing a frontier in thinking - and arguments are not heard anymore, they have made up their mind. All hints towards that he is not a savior at all, that he is not a role model or hero, that he is no prophet but just an imperialist (he f-ing uses nukes against his enemies, that should tell a little about him).
But wasn’t this more meant for the Arab/ Muslim community ? (Because the movie is Muslim inspired) I’m a white Muslim and I think it’s also hilarious
It's gunna be funny when part 3 comes out and the "white savior" will be responsible for more deaths than humans have been alive up to actual current day.
@@heyyou..As a Muslim, concur as well.
@@heyyou..Not really. It was created using Arabism with a facade of Islam as an exotic masquerade to make the Fremen more charismatic to audiences enamored of exotic cultures about which they knew nothing, but fantasized much, projecting their own imaginations on those cultures. It's still going on today. Look around at every 'Pro-Palestinian' protest and explain to me what many of those participating know about real Islam, or even real Arab societies. It was a gentle and respectful version of Orientalism. But it was still Orientalism. Listen when these same people tell Muslims "what Islam is" and why transvestites, homosexuals and alcoholics think it's just fine with them..... One need not believe Mohammad or the Koran to cringe at the level of insult to the Prophet and the Recitation. It's so insulting it's embarrassing to anyone with manners. Religions deserve to be treated seriously, with respect, not treated as misrepresented 'source material' for media industry fantasies. It seems the movie, at least, tries to avoid Herbert's too explicit exploitation of Arab historic culture and Islam. He did it with some grace and skill, but unfortunately many of his readers have not been so discerning. As far as the protestors mentioned are concerned, if they wish to create their own religion modeled on some of their own interpretations of Islam, fine with me. But I do not assume any Muslim must be as tolerant and understanding as I choose to be, nor that such is required of them.
Tarantino said it perfectly: Hollywood does not care about art, story, or depth. Hollywood wants to check boxes to make sure they virtue signal. Funny, Hollywood says it wants equity and color-blind story-telling and then it judges the value of a film based on race, sex, ethnicity.
The funny thing is that you can have a colorblind cast that actually works. Look at the Hamilton play: George Washington is played by an African American actor who absolutely nails his part. The difference between that and what Hollywood tries to do is that Hollywood race/gender swaps to check boxes (like you said), not because of the skill of the actor.
Nah Hollywood wants money. Most of hollywood doesn't actually understand movies or storytelling, so they kind of cargo-cult it with checklists. If someone does something new amd interesting amd it is successful, the rest of holywood adds it to the checklist in an attempt to ride the wave. When the execs get too involved the movies become soulless checklist creations that make no sense.
And that applies to everything, not just race/gender. Action scenes, camera movements, special effects etc. It all gets copied by people who dont understand the parts. Tyey just know some other movie did it and make a lot of money.
There are a handful of good directors and producers that know what tyey are doing, and they are the ones that lead the trends. And behind them is a horde of followers who has no idea what is going on but are dead set on trying to replicate the success through copypasting.
Dune - Part Two effectively ruined cinema experience for me. Because anytime a trailer for a blockbuster was released, I want it to be as good and as epic as Dune - Part Two. This movie set a very high bar for blockbuster movies to come.
😂😂 I feel your pain
True. Dune 2 has set a really, REALLY high bar for today's movies, so disappointment is something you can feel once this comes to mind.
I agree but here's some food for thought. I said the same thing about oppenheimer, but was blown away by this.
This movie didn't simply set a high bar. It set the bar right were it has been a long time ago, when going to the cinema was actually an epic experience.
It will be very hard to top it for a looong time, I bet that only part 3 will have a chance to at least come close to part two, but very hard to be topped by any other movie, specially when all they are investing on is in some sort of ideology
I guess those critics skipped all the scenes about Bene Gesserit influence on the world of Dune...
That definitely would make it a very short movie...
Preeeech!!
They are wearing veils, a powerful woman for those critics should entirely reveal her boobs and participate in sex scenes or it doesn't count x'D
They simply didn't watch the movie
And influence is a weak word, I would more call it control.
Well...they can say what and criticized what they want, the audience has voted with their money.
Madam Web - $96 million
Dune Part 2 = $360 million
I'm surprised web is that close to 100
I hope that "-" means it earned negative 96 million xD
How could that dumpsterfire make $96 million? Are people hatewatching it?
@@marbulOfficial No, but if it's any consolation Madam Web cost over 80 million to produce, meaning they didn't even gross a quarter of what it cost them to produce them film.
Well, good news. Dune 2 just passed $500 million today :)
Diverse cast according to these people: Queer black women as the perfect heroes, white folks, preferable men, as the flawed and weak villains.
What could go wrong?
Oh, I know this: That is the MV for "Relax" by Frankie Goes to Hollywood.
Sounds like an episode of South Park 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
0:22 She actually had point. Whenever comical/novel white characters got played by Black/Brown actors, All white people make Social media a cry zone. Paul in Novel was Dark Olive skinned toned guy, he was not white. He had more like leather like skin. Hollywood should have hired brown skinned actor for him. And if you people keep engulfing brown characters like that then next time to not cry on social media if white characters got played by browns like snow white. Just take it like champ.
They should have casted Brown actor or may be some Middle-easterners actors. Paul was not white in Novel.
@@user-be3js8im3p Something tells me, his color was never mentioned, let's ask the Dune wiki:
"House Atreides was an old and wealthy House Major in the Landsraad, tracing their lineage back thousands of years to King Agamemnon, a son of Atreus in Greece on Old Earth."
You know, Greece, that country in Europe, the continent where all the white people come from. Let me guess, Cleopatra also was black?
WTF? They already turned a male character in part one into a black female character and even gave her a more heroic ending than in the source material. Don't they know this is a book adaptation from the 60's that tries to get things right for the first time after the other adaptations failed hard? Some people...
I know it’s truly crazy! I don’t see any way this movie could be attacked
in the book, kynes is my favorite character. in the movie "SHE" is a rude and snobby girl boss who talks shit to the duke right to his face. i was almost sick when she ALMOST was the first to ride the worm on camera but then gets knifed..... unreal levels of pandering and they want more.... this is why you dont negotiate with terrorists. you give them an inch they take a mile.
Also: Shishakli, played by a half Tunisian actress in the film not only was a gender swap from the book, but was also given a massively larger role as literally the book version was only mentioned in one paragraph where he loaned Paul his maker hooks for Paul’s first worm ride.
Nope, only gonna be happy when all heroes are queer black women. THEN you have diversity. Men, and white people are only allowed as villains.
The kind of mouth foaming fanatical ideology that makes these people demand more more more, can never be satiated. Nothing will ever be enough. Everything must always be on their terms entirely ...no meeting anyone half way like a reasonable person might do. Paranoia controls them and they see evil in every shadow. If you've ever had these people as friends you'll know they are exhausting to be around.
From the people who never create anything themselves, just denigrate the work of others.
So stupid
Literally the definition of evil lol
Evil cannot create, only corrupt
Those who can’t do, “teach”
Paul is not a savior. He is not a Messiah. He is not a prophet. He is a character. He has motivations and wishes. He is complex and conflicted. He wants to do the right thing for everyone, but in doing so could lose everything he is. He has to make an impossible choice to save his family and the Fremen but at the cost of billions of lives. It’s stories and characters like these that provoke thought, relatability, interest and engagement. The fact that people cannot understand this is baffling to me. They know only how to see a movie from the surface level and possess no critical thinking skills to look deeper and ponder the underlying message. No wonder movies nowadays have been so boring and soulless up until Dune part 2. They want the message to be shoved in your face rather than finessed into the story.
In the end Paul becomes trapped by the prophecy and billions die for it. Even when he steps down, the war continues, he became powerless to stop what his name had become. It is a cautionary tale about blindly following "saviors".
In a way, what Hollywood has become recently, is actually cult like. Just what Dune warns us about.
blue eyed Drusus Germanicus ; nothing beats the original .
Insightful comment.
No.. no... that can't be right. Paul is a super skinny dude who looks deeply concerned and kinda wants to put his cock into a girl but isn't working super hard at it, and he kinda wants revenge for his dad's death I... think?
See, the reason people can't understand stuff you wish they did, is that IT'S NOT IN THE MOVIE. None of that is in the movie.
"He wants to save his family" - what family, they're all dead save for himself and his mother
"He wants to save the Fremen" - save them from who, or what? why are they in danger? by what the movie shows nobody cares about them or wants to do them any harm until Paul gets them to start effing with the spice production
"at the cost of billions of lives" - what lives, whose lives, which billions, are there even billions in this world? I haven't even seen a fully inhabited planet yet, just some castles and endless stylistic interiors and like 4 factions - few hundred fremen in caves, 1 family that's basically extinct now, another family ruling like... a city of 50 000 maybe? and an Emperor with an army but no info on the size of the Empire or anything
"look deeper and ponder the underlying message" - what underlying message? Oh, you mean the one fleshed out through 11 books they didn't read in a story the movie didn't bother to tell?
You see, the problem with this movie isn't that the audiences are stupid ,incapable of critical thinking or any of that new age moralising shit. The problem with it, is that the writers didn't bother to tell a story. People who read the books can project what they know about the story onto the canvas, the rest of us can't. While you're pondering deeper messages, I'm wondering why didn't the BaldguywhosenameIforgot just poison the whole atmosphere of the planet, kill everyone including the gddarn worms and harvest in peace. I mean, even a few good nukes could've solved everything. ONE LINE OF DIALOGUE in that movie could've fixed this; even something stupid like
Paul: "but won't they use Bigbangiolagunnbadabum on us...?"
Superkewl Fremiola Dude: "no. any kind of Bangiola would cause a dis-balance in the thingamajig and disrupt the spice accumulation"
But. IT'S. NOT. IN. THE. MOVIE!
Instead, I'm forced to accept there's no was to detect people people breathing through straws laying down under some sand and that there's some reason they don't just zoom with some sort of machinery to squish them after that tactic is first used.
I DID give up on trying to understand why harvesting equipment attracts worms in movie 1 but not movie 2. That... came after I gave up on comprehending why do people capable of INTERSTELLAR TRAVEL fight with effing KNIVES AND SWORDS.
(yes I was told by someone who read the books that there was some AI something summat thingamajig so they don't use robots anymore. Doesn't quite explain why don't they use guns, but what I'm saying is THE MOVIE DOESN'T TELL A STORY, just visual effects).
It’s almost like Dune is a universe filled with flawed characters trying to survive an imperfect world.
It’s like they hate anything succesful.
It’s really weird!
@@thejessegrant Personally I think it's because modern hollywood doesn't want us to think. They just want us to consume yet when an ACTUAL GOOD movie comes along. Somehow it's bigoted or offensive, the want to dumb down stories so that they can put in less effort and sell us more krap. But unfortunately for them people are voting with their wallets and gradually they are getting the message. WE WANT GOOD MOVIES LIKE DUNE PART 2! AND OTHER GOOD MOVIES WHOSE TARGET AUDIENCE IS THAT OF A PARTICULAR GENRE. But yeah that's just how I see it and I absolutely do not want to miss out on this film so I will see it on wednesday after school. I honestly think that this film is definately worth my time and after I finish watching it I will look into buying the first book.
THEY hate anything we enjoy!
they hate anything successful that doesn’t have females written all over it
There has been a vibe of backwardness: "Hey cheer on villians..." Don't see it coming, they loose in the end, gets disappointed, hates whole thing....
Happens across mediums...
Anything successful? Paul's awesome.
Right , despite most of the cast and extras being people of colour.
Exactly 😂😂
You don't understand: The meesiah can ONLY be a queer black woman, for these people at last.
Not the ones that matter apparently
@@bladerunner3314 True.
@@cklambo The good guys one or two white people. The majority of the good people in this film people of colour. The bad people white.
Man every time I read the name Dune I just get reminded of how good this movie was, I'm still not over it
Dune = tune, a riddle
And it’s gonna be in theaters for a while since it’s been so successful. I need this shit on digital so I can watch both movies back to back!
@@jackpackage4278 Same man
It's so good even Georg Lucas got his inspiration from Dune in the form of Star Wars
@@jackpackage4278 i really wanna see dune 2 again, but like i dont know if i want to go back to theaters or not
Honestly, the whole "is he actually a messiah" isn't even subtext in my oppinion. His mother is so open about what she is doing, it's ridiculous just how open that is. And that's just her, others do it as well, including Paul himself, at least initially.
Yeah I didn't like that, was better in the book. They made it into an obvious act in the movie. They sort of added some anti-religious undertones...made this idea of the atheist northern fremen vs. the "ignorant" fundamentalists in clear analogy with the American Christian fundamentalists.
@@geometerfpv2804 Herbert was disappointed that book readers did not understand this message. So adaptation shows that it’s not hero story more obviously.
The fact it was obvious from the movie, and these reeetards still managed to totally miss the point is hilarious.
It´s so hilarious I´m wasting my body water laughing at them. 😂🤣😂
@@geometerfpv2804Personally I haven't read the books, it's something I'm considering to do when I get some more free time. I agree the lack of subtetly, in particular when the mother talked to her unborn daughter on how to manipulate the fremen, was unnecessary.
That said I do like the take on it overall, because at least from what I remember from the SciFi miniseries, they pretty much went the opposite direction with little doubt about him being the messiah. (I think the David Lynch movie was similar in that regard, but it's so long since I saw that one I barely remember any details about that one).
All the Bene Jeserit are open about it if it isnt Paul it's the unborn child in (French actress whose name I cant remembers womb.
The prophecy is inevitable in that it is self fulfilling manipulated.
He is and isnt a messiah depending on who you are, either way it subverts the expectation of messiah into something dreadful
Simple: Just don't listen to those creeps.
Just completely ignore it at this point. The less publicity these garbage criticisms get, the less they will happen I bet
Dune was really feminist? And diverse? What are they even- oh they really are this stupid. Got it.
Ahahaha truly insane
they REALLY wanted something to complain about i guess
@@thejessegrant How many people are out here saying anything about it? There are few out there that are panning this movie. BTW Dune criticism has happened since the book and the first movie. These are not new takes. Plus most people are loving the movie. But none of this is new nor fresh with the Dune messiah thing, diversity, etc.
I am brown. I am from India. To attack this great cinema by reducing it to such low level of psychopathic racial and sexist angle is beyond my imagination. This is one of the finest cinema that I have seen, produced by Hollywood in a long time. This is a gem of a movie. It doesn't force you to involve in the Dune world view rather it sucks your attention and carries it throughout the movie in such an elegant way that such a long movie doesn't feel stretched for a second. I have already seen it twice in IMAX and ICE and am planning to see it one more time in next weekend as it is a movie which must be seen in theatres to do justice to such an incredible cinematography.
well said! I couldnt agree more
It's funny that they consider Paul a white savior when his father is described as dark with a hawk nose( likely eurasian and arab extraction) and his mother is red haired and fair, heavily implying that he is not only mixed, but that in the 20,000 years since our modern time racial categories are largely an archaic thing. Also when describing the Fremen they are almost wiry(not soft and water fat) with the most striking feature being the eyes of Ibad( the characteristic blue within blue), nowhere does Frank Herbert specifically mention race or skin tone, though some can be inferred, so on that point all the film adaptations are right and wrong.
The Atreides are descendents of the Greeks. Of course, after 20000 years, genetic lineage realistically doesnt mean anything, but i expect thats the kind of look Herbert was going for and Oscar Isaacs is a good choice for the part. There could be a bit of ambiguity but i think its pretty fair to say Paul is white.
if I can get a euro for every time feminists say stuff like this for all successful films like this or games I would be a trillionaire
😂 I remember an article saying John Wick is for toxic white men! I was like you do know Keanu Reeves is half Asian right? Ahaha and who started that genre and style of film ahaha
@@thejessegrant I am not sure if there are any toxic white men films that I have seen or know about but I would like someone to make one and make these feminists watch through the whole thing and see their reactions to it. I would also like to see them make an article explaining how any of the films that they said are for 'toxic white men' are that when they compare it to the real deal. I just need to see if they will take anything back from what they said or if they actually have no brain at all.
@@thejessegrant I've had people call me racist.... I grew up in black Africa, and am part Asian and Hispanic.... and the person who called me racist was a white person 😶😶🤣🤣
you would be swimming in money 😂
scrooge, basically (No offense).
If these "critics" can only criticise the lack of diversity, then they can't be critics. Works of fiction have plot, character, and thoughts, and it's the critics' job to look at these three things, first and foremost.
Do these people know why some perpetually inebriated Scot got more influential and popular than them? He looks at these three things. They don't. Mainstream critics, you had one job!
100% agree with you here
It's like a circle. These people try to distance themselves from racism so much that they are literally being racist again, getting back to square one
For those that might’ve missed it. This Dune is all about women.
Women are the grand, all-powerful, scheming players and men are just the pawns.
Men are either obstacles, or purely blunt instruments to women’s plans ( within plans ).
The entire story revolves around one ‘Bene Gesserit’ - ‘the nuns of the future’,
trying to ‘one up’ on her ( mother superior ) boss.
She finally and successfully replaces all of her bosses pawns with her own.
That’s the entire arc of this story.
Men and their petty aims ( which were already placed in their minds by nuns anyway )
are just background furniture to all of this. “The sound and the fury - signifying nothing”
Even the central male protagonist has to transcend his male limits and become a ‘’woman’.
He has to become a ‘nun’ in order to be able to see the long-game and conquer,
every other puny male he meets. Talented before ( due to his pre-nun training )
but once he becomes a woman, he’s suddenly god-like. ( goddess-like )
This is the entire subplot of Dune.
Once you gather this… you’re forced to look at the female 'love interest' character,
the 'Villeneuve/Herbert collaboration' have given to the protagonist.
Is she the only female character not blessed with the vision and aptitude,
for the long-game… yes, of course she is.
As all of the other women are cool and calculating… did ‘they’ make her,
consistently caught up the present moment, whiny and bad tempered,
always the moody one… yes, of course they did.
Luckily for previous moviegoers to this ( Lynch’s 1984 version ) epic.
This character ( Chani ) was down played.
They let the “Cassandra” element just lilt away.
Not allowing her to be a diversion to the main action…
‘a boy’s journey to becoming a hero (nun) and finding his true purpose ( puppet of other nuns )’.
( With a bit of Freudian ‘self-doubt’ psychoanalysis thrown in )
With Villeneuve’s expert knowledge of the source material… he decided,
to go ‘full moody’. Zendaya plays ‘anxiously temperamental’ to perfection.
She pulls pouting face, upon pouting face, without a need to even pause.
There’s a “I told you so” in her every frown, “you’re not a nun” in her every glance.
This somehow downplays or spoils the enormity of the films exposition.
It becomes a spat between two kids and the epic elements,
are brought clunking to their knees. Because the grander narrative isn’t about them.
For all of their infighting…you know one of the nuns is always going to be the ultimate winner.
The films nods to religious propaganda and Machiavellian moves,
by grown women is competing against a young women’s constant pouty face.
It is jarringly obvious that whilst the hero fancied pouty face… the right move,
was always to marry the princess. *Who just happens to also be a space-nun.
So it’s a win-win for the space-nuns all round.
Go space nuns!
I still prefer sisters of battles as space Nuns ^^.
The Bene Gesserit are scheming psychopaths, so it´s pRoBLeMaTiC for the W0kesters because whamen can do nothing wrong according to them.
Yeah it's coming across that way, if they had kept it on politics being Emperors rationale aka jealousy and power play and Mentats were an area of focus - plus the Space Guild yielding to Pauls ascendancy - we would see it as a matter of so many factions with their own agendas but that is perhaps too cluttered for general audiences and so they have "streamlined" it to overdoses it on "Space Nuns" as it were
I so wish there was a Directors Cut with Mentats etc
Very eloquantly explained.
The film really is racist. Racist against men as their strings are being pulled by women behind the curtains.
Dune doesn’t need apologetics.
Paul Atreides is the furthest thing possible from a savior. The Fremen were used to exact his revenge, and when he couldn't stop the gears of war he let the universe suffer a brutal war.
But yeah, sure. Savior. Right.
Drusus Germanicus ? actually he saved rome from rebelling rhine-legions, like the
pied piper saved hamelin from rats but then why so badly rewarded or valued after.
Paul didn't exactly *used* them for *his* revenge, because it was *their* revenge. Fremen were persecuted for 80 years by Harkonnen, blackmailed by the Guild and before that, their Zensunni ancestors were forced into exile from planets to planets, enslaved again and again (La la la). And then arrives someone that promise them paradise, but in many, many generations (Pardot and then Liet Kynes), and when Liet Kynes is killed, appear someone that promise them paradise for just right now. And who is sincere about his promise because basically he has become a Fremen. The decision to reduce the story length from 5 years to only several months fail to show how Fremen Paul Muad'Dib has become. He is not using Fremen hates and dreams, he is sharing them.
One of the major points of Dune was about warning against blind faith. Paul is not the good guy.
Drusus Germanicus till this day is considered a PANDER ! for 2000 years !
It's more complex in the book. Paul is written as a really "good guy" character. He has to take disputable decisions, but his actions are always justified : survival, avenging his father who was also a good guy character. The point is like you said to warn us against blind faith, because if people follow unquestioningly even perfectly decent, good guys, it will end up badly, out of the people fanaticism, not necessarily because of the "messiahs" themselves.
Eh Paul is alright it's his son that becomes a problem
Leto II in the background as a worm god who is acting as a dictator, to set humans on the golden path: so anyways I started having Duncan Idaho gholas become a part of my family tree
the book tried to give a clever trope subversion, a lot of people didn't pick up on that. Now, Villeneuve tried really hard to make it even more clear that Paul isn't a savior, the fremen are victims and the bene gesserit did something absolutely horrible to them.... but some people insist on being idiots. No amount of spelling out will change that
yeah this is why the avatar movies are better because they don't bring anything new and they keep doing the good old native people = good... white people= bad...tottally clever!!
I'm glad I learned about Duncan regenerating. I couldn't figure out why Jason Momoa would take a small role. He saw the future and I hope he will be in Dune Messiah and beyond.
So what.... Those critiques are to be ignored. Best movie of the decade!
An order exclusively composed of overpowered women rules the human universe... without even talking about the Honored Matres. My God, these people.
Frank Herbert on his way to create space dominatrix army
It's not even subtext, chani and paul directly say multiple times the Messiah angle is manipulation from the bene gesseret. They even explain in detail how they manipulate things behind the scenes
but Paul still is the Kwisatz Haderach it's a manufacturing of tales by the BG but he and Leto II have the power. It's mind bending and so smart.
Sure, its planted by the Bene Gesserit among Fremen, but that doesnt make it not true.
A: a movie can display sexism without being sexist
B: they have plenty of strong female characters (Chani, Irulan, Jessica (almost all of the benee gesserit for that matter))
C: this movie highlights how women can still run the world (well, universe) behind the scenes even in a society where men are in the more well known roles
It is very interesting that the firs point you mentioned is the exact reason why Frank Herbert wrote the second Dune to show that Paul becoming Emperor is not a good ending or Overall a "good" thing.
Calling Dune Sexist is absolutely hilarious considering an order of only women control the entire series' politics from the background and have a really powerful superhuman ability. Like you genuinely have to have not watched the movie or read the books to think it's remotely sexist in any way.
Fun Fact:
The second book in the series (Dune Messiah) was written partly BECAUSE the author realized, that his readers were misinterpreting his cautionary tale about the seducing influence of charismatic leaders as the very Messiah/Savior/ChosenOne-Story he was trying to disect and criticise.
Here, Frank Herbert is talking about exactly this motivation to write Dune:
ruclips.net/video/26GPaMoeiu4/видео.html
Call me cynical, but I think it is just super funny, how people in every time misread the same story in the same way.
Its just the world is like: Intelligent ruthless persons are using religion to manipulate stupid persons. So if someone doesn't got this message out of dune you might guess to which group he belongs ... (or should I say she ?) Sometimes the religion is replaced by an ideology like in Facism or Communism. Just the same trick.
It's quite simple not to fall in the trap to follow such messiases: Just treat everyone with great mistrust that comes around the corner with a SIMPLE plan how he can be your savior. There are no simple, clean, flawless plans or solutions that solve complex problems. And human sociaty it insanely complex.
*sigh* why am i not surprised
Crazy
could you please be more precise, who criticised the movie sexist? All reasonable critics praise Dune 2, as there is i.e. a 93% approval on rotten tomatoes. Just a random guy on social media is not representative for critics.
Oh shit, it means I need to go to cinema and watch Dune again. I have gladly pay for ticket. Worth every penny, and more.
You know what's sad? There could be a movie or game out there that could have every single bit of diveristy in it. I'm not just talking about different races or cultures but also like mixes like mixed race of certain people, then you have another version of that mixed race of certain people but with different sexualities, then you have another version of that mixed race of certain people who identify themselves as the opposite gender etc. basically making every single possible combination of diversity to try and make EVERYONE happy.
....BUT if there exsits one Straight White Male in it and that character is NOT a villain, they will complain.
Lol
All these attacks on Dune are happening now because the movie has so much “this is what movies should be like” and “Dune is the end of woke Hollywood” hype around it online and particularly on RUclips. The wokies and the cancel pigs are lashing out because they know that those points are correct and it frightens them. They see a movie being universally praised while NOT checking boxes for DEI sake, but rather just being organically diverse. It shows them how terribly wrong they have been all along, particularly since D2 dropped a couple weeks after the disastrous Madame Web imploded. A cornered animal bares its teeth and snarls in fear.
Unfortunatelly it pointlessly -swapped Dr. Kynes to check some DEI boxes. Besides that -swap the casting seems naturally diverse and makes sense.
Some people argue Chani is supposed to be a ginger, which sounds weird to me considering she is from a culture of people who live on a desert planet with intense sunlight.
theres nothing more scary than a charismatic leader...
@@mousemetal1679 if she was a ginger she would have beeing burn in seconds since the planet can have like 70C
Except the movie does check a few boxes. It is decently woke.
You seem to be just as confused as those "critics".
@@tjarkschweizer i don't think you know what woke means anymore.
Let's hope they never do a remake of Lawrence of Arabia, as these critics would demand the lead character be played by a black lesbian.
Imagine the mental gymnastics at work, for someone who is "anti-racist, anti-sexist, anti-discriminiation", to get triggered by a story for featuring a white man.
I'm also curious what Hollywoke critics have to say about the Bene Gesserit in general, but that would require media literacy that goes beyond 160 letter tweets
There’s always someone trying to ruin someone else’s fun. In this case the few spoiling things for the many. I’m tired of it and just want good cinema. Honestly I want good media in general. Your channel Jesse is a breath of fresh air. You’re pretty unbiased and honest with your reviews and critiques. Keep it up mate and I’m here for it all. ❤️
Chani in the book is much more quiet and respectful of her traditions and Paul. In here they already changed her into a “young not happy of the old ones”, but still is a fine character.
They always want more and call us peaky babies
Yeah...there were many changes "for a modern audience"...but it is never enough. They made it so the Baron was not gay, he only murdered innocent women, not boys. Made Chani head of the Fedaykin so she could be a badass warrior. They invented the notion of atheist fremen vs. "ignorant" crazed fundamentalists. Etc etc...
@@geometerfpv2804 and you are the reason why we can get good for once while we still get shit like rebel moon and madame web.
Thats tbh one thing im curious the arguments didnt touch on.
Its kind of that Frank Herbert had for most women he wrote, he kinda had a archetype.
DV changing Chani into a fedaykin is good change to contrast the way Herbert wrote women. Not that he did it delibarately badly just that he kinda stayed in a mold.
@@yeetlad926 Herbert made Fremen women completely different to the other noble houses or the Bene Genesserit (the schemers behind the scenes) but DV sadly made them more similar.
Fremen society was patriarchal, polygamous etc. and they made it gender equal. Changing Chani into a girlboss was obviously another such change to appease the progressives in the industry.
@@MrDezokokotar Yeah i know but tbh to me chani in the book compared to chani in movie is really boring at least for the first Dune , have yet to read Messiah and Children.
Her and Paul bonding boiled down to her comforting Paul while hes tripping balls. Her role for the rest is jessicas barely on screen assistant
Villeneuve changed that character to like the emotional pivot of the movie. Much more convincing in my eyes than Herbert did in writing. Shes the one who actively makes him become Fremen.
Like there was this scene just before they went to head south where Stilgar says hes now speaking to Usul rather than Muad'dib. The movie Chani made that feel real to me way better than book Chani ever did.
Like ill take movie Chani over book Chani any day of the week. Cause she actually has agency that isn't tied to Paul.
Who even are these clowns calling themselves critics?
Fools
activists pretending to be critics
Hold on, the main villains in the Dune books are women. The Bene Gesserit are strong and powerful “witches” that can control all the great houses and hold the most power. How is that sexist?
They are the villains, so it´s sE*iSt & pRoBLeMaTiC.
As a female this so dumb lmao
So, the makers of ant art form nowadays don't have any right to do as he/she/they like?? Everytime do they need to approach those useless feminists for their approval?? What a time to live in.
Both Dune movies were so good! Its everything Disney Star Wars could have been! What a freakin' waste the last 6 years. Hopefully the absolute mountains of cash that Warner Bros is making with this movie will show Disney the light. (btw every single bad guy in this movie, all like 2 million of them, is white, but you dont hear anyone howling about that)
I look forward to the Dune theme park one day lol I wanna ride a Sandworm
They made a huge mistake by somehow thinking 1) we know their names or what they do for a living, 2) we give a shite about their opinion, 3) their thoughts matter, seeing how they are obviously owned, and 4) they're a product of CA and Hollywood. Have I left anything out?
Playback speed at 1.5x Thank me later
By will alone I set my mind in motion.
Dune was published in 1965. The critics clearly didn't see the movie or read the book. A huge key thing they are missing that is said in the first movie as well is that the Bene Gesserit have been manipulating the people of Arrakis with the prophecy which they know is a lie that they created. They've also been trying to breed the Quizat Haderach who wasn't supposed to be Paul. That critic has an agenda not to review the movie but to push a message. That critic would rather change the book completely ala Rings of Power which was supposed to be based on Tolkien stories but some exec at Amazon decided to ruin the show by making it all about identity propaganda rather than tell a good story at least close to the original stories.
Maybe feminists didn't like the film because Jessica is just as big of an antagonist as the Harkonenns. She manipulates the Fremen for her own purposes.
Another thing that makes the story diverse is the clear middle eastern influence on the world of Arrakis, for example the way that the Fremen pray.
Cindy Steinberg’s quote on her own page:
“ Neurodivergent writer, intersectional advocate & DEI director who's chronicling this weird world of ours...and making straight white men uncomfortable.”
What the actual fuck.
This eloquently exposes why is it that we're served super bad movies lately... Being too much of a militant, requires one to shut down most of his/her cortex and distorts his/her human cognitive senses. Which can only produce half-backed / ill-written movies, essentially relying on FX and acrobatic moves, along shrink-café psychology feeding boring dialog between pathologically over-sensible stooges (while at the same time their characters behave like egocentric psychopaths), most often incoherent since what matters is that _the-message-slaps-your-face_ ... What's funny is that Villeneuve openly says (in other words) that he's doing so, although we don't really notice it that much in his movies : all being said, he stays on the high grounds of his Art in Cinema. That's what most of us want. Not social guidance nor some lip-stick guru talking an ill-devised soup of unintelligible ideograms in-between explosions, but rigorous and talented artists in their respective domains who can assemble, gather and, together, create a memorable moment of entertainment. Where having the best Artist in filmmaking direction becomes foundational (he stays invisible, as we can mostly experience the Artisans of images, movements, acting, music, costumes, scene crafting, storyboard etc. in an pleasingly exploratory ensemble).
White savior? I watched the Film and didn't feel that.
I didn't like him not telling Chani that she is his only one that will receive his affection. Which he does in the book. Then showed Chani in a strop after. Which doesn't happen in the book.
Soon as he got what he wanted, then dumped her off.
Aliya not born. No Navigators shown. Which is why his dreams show staving people, because they control spice and Navigators need it.
Navigators are the Logistics and transport of food and everything. So people that haven't read the books, won't understand that without watching 10 RUclips videos explaining what's happening.
This Dune is a Brief Abridged Graphical version of Dune.
The Fremen could of used worms to attack, long ago.
Not without atomics to breach the shield wall they couldn't. They couldn't fight the Harkonnens without Paul's technical expertise and Atreidies tactics.
I absolutely agree with you, this is gone too far...People who never red any of Tolkien's books talk about "depth" in a bad way regarding LotR and nothing goes deep as that book does. Period.
I loved your video as it was a well documented argument considering the size of your channel but the background clps played almost gave me epilepsy. Try to make the transitions slower and smoother next time pls :)
Personally, I really liked DUNE part one, even though some people thought it was too slow I thought it worked well. What I don't understand is how anyone could dislike part two, from the sound and cinematography to the costume design and tight action scenes there is something for everyone to appreciate in this movie, to me this movie shows that actors and writers won't be replaced by AI that fast, as this story tells a very human story with an incredible sci-fi exterior.
Hey Jesse! Love your content! Keep fighting the good fight! *salutes*
Thank you! I’m glad your enjoying the videos
@@thejessegrant I lost it at 00:32 when you said to shut this shit down! xD
5:05 THIS!! This is probably my #1 factor when I think about how well a movie (or any form of storytelling) was executed. Did the author/director have to come right out & say directly to the audience via character monologue their main point, or were they able to masterfully craft & weave the narrative, making the audience think critically, having to hold the tension of both sides of a story? We as humans want things boiled down to black & white, binary thinking - the prototypical "good vs. evil" trope. But in reality, life is sooo messy and almost everything lives in the in-between gray. One recent example that I thought executed this beautifully was Oppenheimer. I thought Dune 2 was right up there as well, although a book adaptation will always fall short of the depth of the narrative the author can achieve in text form, but Dune 2 made up for this in spades with the masterful cinematography and score. Great discussion & points!
I think my guitar instructor (who i talk to about movies a lot) said it brst. Phones have ruined all other media. So much short form media and sexism/racism disguised as diversity
Those people are just pathetic.
The Dune universe is indirectly controlled by a group of witches..so..
Livia, Agrippina maior and minor, Poppea Sabina, Pompeia Paulina, Claudia Procula to name some.
Technically, nuns with powers.
... But, yeah, witches is perfectly fine.
To quote a movie, after seeing Dune and looking what else is out.
*"Its a Masterpiece...the rest of this sh*t is worthless junk."*
- M. Gustave
"Before the internet I thought most people were sane and just wanted to work and be left alone. But ever since the arrival of the internet I've realized most people are fucking braindead."
-My Dad
Villenueve’s Dune saga is going to be the science fiction version of Jackson’s Lord of the Rings...
The best movies of each genre, best films for history
Did those people attack Godzilla Minus One (2023) as well?
Bahahah somehow would find a way to do so
I bet that someone accused them from depicting Japan as a victim of IIWW or something like that
It's funny how these "Critics" think we still care about their opinion on anything.
Now, at a news outlet near you: Uninformed opinions by people who are getting paid to have them.
The number of people complaining about this type of thing is a fraction of a fraction and not worth our time. Best not to feed these trolls.
Chani’s character in the movie is not as Frank Herbert wrote it. The character in the movie was written for “modern audiences”.
And they fvcking ruined her character
While she isn't as she was in the book, If that were true, Stillgar wouldn't have thrown her to the ground the way he did. She wouldn't have taken an L at the end, either. Her character was altered in a way similar to many of the alterations in the film, they needed to convey something that reads in about 20+ hours into 2 hours and 45 mins of run time.
Wouldn’t have taken an L so ungracefully, I presume you mean. She did take an L in the book and was quite well-adjusted to Paul marrying Princess Irulan. The one struggling to cope in the books was not Chani but Irulan. I don’t quite see how not changing her character would have lengthened the story beyond its current run time, but who knows perhaps I’m not considering everything. It seems more likely to me that the situation of Paul marrying Irulan was too medieval in sensibility; The movie makers thought that accepting the circumstances meekly would be too off putting to the modern feminist ethos. So, they had her instead not be a victim while being a victim at the same time at the end.
Also, Chani was not a sceptic of Paul in the book. And there was no difference in the beliefs between the north and south Fremen. That was all made up for the movie, and the movie could have been shorter without all of that and invested its time into something else.
Critics, someone who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
I mean white male saviour is 100% correct, but what people don't understand: That is the point. Paul Atreidis is basically in part inspired by T.E. Lawrence, who presented himself as a white saviour of the Arab people to the West, but the West then ended up betraying the Arabs who were fighting against the Ottoman Emperor (called Padishah btw.). Furthermore Arab sources from the time said that Lawrence did not play a big role and was just one upon many Western volunteers. Only through his own book "seven pillars of wisdom" is it that we know about his (described) exploits in Arabia. And I understand it that Frank Herbert was criticising the role of Lawrence in a way. It is just that some people cannot wrap their head around, that the main character isn't a good person or a role model, it doesn't follow the superhero formula. In Dune, for the Bene Gesserit it is very important that you are "human", a.e. not controlled by your feelings and only act rational and in your own interest, opposed to acting instinctual and for that part also morally. Which shows us under which morals the characters act and how that is in contrast to our own moral system. Funnily enough Chani was morally speaking probably the most "good person" in the movie.
Wait, wait.. Zendaya is black?
Zendaya was born on September 1, 1996, in Oakland, California, to teachers Claire Stoermer and Kazembe Ajamu Coleman. Her father is African-American, with Nigerian ancestry; her mother has German and Scottish ancestry. Quite diversified I would say...
@@NAANsoft thankyou online bot, practice responding like a human being next time.
That would mean being of "mixed" race almost anywhere else in the world, but in the US, it seems that even if you have a distant black ancestor (from African origin, not from other black tribes alongside the ecuator), you are as "black" as it can be. Why is that? (Honest question).
@@SystemBD Don't use logic on them, you'll fracture their tiny minds. 😂
Paul would never had been a "white savior" had THEY not race-swapped Chani and the Fremen in the first place!
Does anyone know that Atreides are literally modeled after islamists from Dagestan?
Fremen being black or brown makes a lot of sense. 10 000 years on sunny planet like Dune would make ppl brown/black regardless of their original roots. And well they have quasi-arabic culture.
im pretty sure Faith would have been a large factor too!reasoning with yourself would make you seek offworld work in any culture to survive, instead of sticking it out on a planet that will kill u in any way shape or form!@@Martin-lm8xp
The Fremen were race-swapped in the lynch movie. The Fremen are suppose to be darker skin in the book. Chani is NOT suppose to look like Sean Young. The Fremen being dark skin makes the white savior thing more accurate as Dune is suppose to shit on the white savior trope turning Paul into the bad guy in later sequels. “Never trust a charismatic leader.” Herbert would say
@@SterileNeutrino They have greek origins
Also if they're read more than the first book (i.e. 2nd and 3rd) they would get additional indications that Paul Atreides is no savior and no one in the story is.
They said this when this movie actually damaged the original story by girl-bossing Chani.
this movie was 10/10 fuck all the losers hating 😂
Abahahahahaah DUUUUUUNNNNEEEE!!
Huh, this reminds me of the petty gaming-marketing people that hated Baldur's Gate III, because it raised expectations in the customers.
Maybe the people that complain about Dune or Baldur's gate III should start making better movies/games, instead of being pouty about people liking good stuff without agendas.
Thanks for summing the points up, this really helps arguing when I hear the next person repeating the 'White Savior' thing.
I definitely agree with you that Hollywood has a big DEI hire problem. Hiring by DEI quota is illegal, and yet we see it all throughout every industry.
Hollywood has a history of such stuff they have no right to attack anything.
How is this movie possibly sexist?
This movie passes the Bechdel Test with flying colors...
Multiple times.
We're losing the entire generation of people who know what movies are and should be as an escape
I gave up on critics being able to see past surface level 16 years ago when a lot started saying The Dark Knight was supporting right-wing militaristic ideals (which at surface level I can understand) instead of realizing that the Nolans' were simply holding a mirror to Bush-era politics and letting the audience decide if the ends justify the means and at what point do the good guys become the bad guys regardless of how good their intentions are.
I'm not sure I would say that a single article by Medium constitutes Hollywood calling it sexist.
Look, I love Star Wars but ghe idea that Dune isn't as deep as Star Wars is hysterical to me
These shills have already sold me about DUNE (the fact that they hate it) they don't need to overdo it.
Someone needs to tell that Jewish woman that THERE ARE 14 RACE SWAPS & 1 GENDER SWAP IN DUNE!
1. Leto goes from Greek to Latino
2. Dr Huey from White to Asian
3. Thufir Hawat from White to Black
4. Ducan Idaho from White to Samoan
5. Sadat Mapes from White to Black
6. Liet Kynes from Man to Woman
7. Liet Kynes from White to Black
8. Jammis from White to Black
9. Chani from White to Black
10. Leto II The Elder Son from White to Black
11. Leto II from White to Black
12. Ghanima from White to Black
13. Harah from White to Black
14.Orlop (son of Jamis & Harah) from White to Black
15. Kaleff (son of Jamis & Harah) from White to Black
What is intresting is the fact that it’s based on a much older book. So it’s like they demand to rewrite the book
You can't call yourself a real dune fan unless you've subjected yourself to the cruel and unusual punishment of reading God emperor of Dune and onward.
in a way with how is questing everything and seeing the future which he has being fighting is that he is a messiah of death.
Also we have no idea if he is going to be a savior. It is a key point that he didn't want power because he foresaw a war with millions dying if he gains power. My only complaint is whenever the scene went from a dark cave and that flashbangs you by moving to the bright desert.
As a brown woman I think Dune is a perfect example of how diversity in movies should be done. Each character’s gender and cultural identity is intentional and serves the story - no box-ticking. It’s also a rare example of Arab-coded characters in a Hollywood movie being good guys, which was was refreshing to see.
Honestly the idea that Paul isn’t the Messiah was actually spelt out in the movie.
Most of these articles are more bait than actual opinions someone has.
That's my favorite part about dune is trying to peace the story together for yourself. It keeps you engaged wanting to learn more and glued to the movie trying to pick everything they say to try to peace the world together. It was an amazing movie I got sucked in hard and no movies recently have been apply to do that. Finally a movie done right. I love the seriousness of it. Get character development. You could feel all the characters struggles it was amazing.
This shows how pointless it is to try to please those people.
No more compromise of creative vision, don't give them an inch!
They will still atack you unless you turn your art into propaganda anyway!
Hollywood not making woke social trash...
Me: Whoever made that is LISAN AL GAIB!