“People used to say that Tudor is a poor man’s Rolex to which I always say remove poor, it’s the man’s Rolex.” “Perhaps Rolex is just the overpriced Tudor.” Pure gold Oisin!
Purchased a Tudor style 38mm a year and a half ago. I love it and only wear it on special occasions. Very happy with my purchase as it was only slightly out of my budget.
Tudor is the sister to Rolex. Always will be. In the military world being retired Army after 21 years of service, we wore Tudor, as the shield protects the realm. Tudor is a military persons watch for sure. I love and will always wear my Tudor Pelagos FXD with pride.
I look at it through the lens of the record business: I don't mind Tudor being Rolex's reissue label, putting out official, remastered, high-quality versions of old Rolex releases rather than leaving it up to bootlegs and cover versions. You can buy an original, mint copy of Coltrane's Sound on Atlantic for $300 dollars or you could buy the Rhino reissue for $30 that isn't as collectable but is pressed and packaged to higher standards than Atlantic's albums from 1960s, but you have that Rhino logo on the label. I see Tudor the same way-a new Black Bay 54 costs a fraction of the vintage Rolex (or even the vintage Tudor) it's based on, yet it's objectively a more durable, higher quality product. The only problem with Tudor is that they refuse to be honest about who they are with the whole "Born To Dare" branding. Nothing is less "daring" than recreating the most desirable references from Rolex's past, no matter who Tudor pays to flog them.
Am I the only one who sees huge similarities between the watch world and the guitar world? At this point I see Rolex as being like Gibson and Tudor is like Epiphone. Musicians will understand, hopefully.
Disagree. Tudor is not made in China by slave labor. And Tudor is in fact the secondary brand that focuses on the classic designs for enthusiasts- more like the Gibson custom shop. I’m looking to get the new 58 GMT - so much nicer than the current Rolex GMTs and more like a vintage model.
I have a Mexican made Baja tele that is, in my opinion, outstanding. It cost me about $900 7 years ago. I see no reason to upgrade to an American made or a Custom Shop guitar. The Baja is definitely the Tudor to the Custom Shop's Rolex.
I personally love that Tudor are making the classics available at an attainable price and with modern quality. As a brand though, their catalogue feels like a mess. Black bay everything (genuinely what is the common link in the line?), ranger is another vintage inspired piece, royal is a dud. Pelagos is the one modern piece that’s interesting.
Honestly couldn't agree more, which is why I really like Tudor for what they are. (You could look into using a small wind shield to reduce your mic sibilance)
Spot on Oisín, per usual. As for my view, I thank the gods that Rolex has a sister brand platform where they can resurrect classic old Rolex models. Because the alternative, is that those great watch designs would end up as nothing more than museum pieces, viewed through a glass case. And those designs are too good for that; they deserve to live and be enjoyed on the wrist. The fact that they're doing that at a price point that more men can afford (than if it were Rolex) is icing on the cake.
There are a few special Tudor designs as well: I wear a Tudor North Flag, with a very unique tool watch design and bracelet. It's the most masculine watch I own.
I loved Tudor when they were 'the poor man's Rolex'. You could take it out and jackhammer the streets of Geneva, according to the ads. When they went their own way, you got the butt-ugly North Flag. Now they're back, making classy and refined versions of the overblown, pretentious and overpriced Rolex GMTs and Submariners. A welcome development. Just cause some people like it, doesn't mean it's bad.
Indeed, beyond poor man’s Rolex, they’re just just what Rolex used to be a couple of decades ago. Rolex will just continue to push upmarket into there luxury fashion space, where everything is hype and scarcity.
My BB58 gets too much time on my wrist - the explore, sub and datejust are jealous. BB58 is so easy to tell time on a quick glance. Submariner no-date not as easy to read on a quick glance.
VERY TRUE!! But isnt that the Hans Wilsdorfs wish?? Rolex’s with different movements at a modest price point?? Call it a cover band but it is what it is.
@@witoldkramarz2500 in essense they are all brand Hans Wilsdorf Foundation. The materials ceramic, bronz, carbon fiber, silver. They are a extention of the Hans brand at different price points
I am 48 and I can say I got to see Pink Floyd live in 1994 at foxboro stadium . It was awesome . Saucerful of secrets is my top . Great video Cin Cin 🥂
I couldn’t agree more. I owned the Tudor GMT when it first came out and while I liked the watch, I never fell in love because it was a copy of the Rolex model which I really wanted. I wish they would come out with more original designs. I’m one of the few that like the north flag it seems and I was a fan of the P01. The Pelagos is the watch that gets my attention the most because it’s far more original in design. What kills me the most about the brand is having so many watches under the black bay name plate. I find it extremely lazy to have 9 separate models under it and a few of them have sub model variants. Saying all of that they are great watches and I’m sure I’ll add another to my collection but they need to do something different to make me want to spend my money and not look at the other options in the $4-6k range.
I loved tudor sometime ago,but now its a little like a hit song you heard all the time everywhere,and at the end they finish to make you hate the song you were loved so much...
This sank in. But you’re actually right. I’ll now think of that when looking at Tudor. Then again - as you said - they’re a beautiful way to own a classic for a better price and have a more durable version. Nothing wrong with that. 😎
I haven't seen the new 58 GMT in the metal yet but i am keen to. For me this isn't about fan service, its more finally getting the design and proportions right of the GMT as the old ones just had too much heft to them and that was in all likelihood holding back sales. I for one looked at the old model and nearly pulled the trigger but the thickness stopped me. I don't see that as grounds to be disappointed.
I got the Tudor GMT because I couldn't really afford the GMT master II, I could get it there and then and I wanted to celebrate getting my dream job. The watch to me has ended up being more than a poor mans Rolex. It signifies what I have achieved.... and I got it on 0% finance which meant I could put the purchase amount in a high yield savings account for the 4 years of the agreement. WIN!
Great video. I feel you 100 %. My take-away after handing the Black Bay 58 GMT at a local dealer was wow! Thinner case, master certified movement and a strong retro nod to the original Black Bay 58 made for the perfect launch. I personally love it and will be purchasing one. I do believe they should in the near future release different color ways and even a no date function for the seemingly mass amount consumers who prefer a more sterile dial. It is also of my opinion that the majority of these opinions, be them negative or positive, come from non-consumers. By this I mean, individuals who have never interacted with this watch or the Tudor brand for that matter. A video or a photo of something can only capture so much. Thats my two and a half cents. ✌
Bought a panda Tudor tiger woods in 1998 on a oyster bracelet and it’s still my favorite watch. My first nice watch I purchased. Fits me perfectly and is comfortable to wear. Next favorite is my Peligos LHD. Definitely a man’s watch.
And he's back! Great vid thoughtful thought provoking and superb production as we've come to expect. Personally speaking I like indie watches bespoke watches mass produced watches expensive watches and homages. This hobby is so inclusive it's cool if you're wearing a Rolex sub a Tudor homage or San Martin homage. Buy what you like
My friend and I had the same thoughts about Tudor recently too. We both enjoyed the BB58 Navy and the BB58 925, but year after year it’s seems Tudor just kept releasing pieces that we would like Rolex to release, but never did. They miss the mark just by one or two details that my Tudors didn’t become keepers in the collection. I think their Pelagos FXD is one of the few in their product lines that actually stand out. The Marine Nationale or even the new FXD cyclist version are so unique that they are enticing me to get back to the brand after letting go of their BBPro, Pepsi BB GMT, black Pelagos - all thick and top heavy in the end.
I own three tudors and still I think you make some great points. I still want to get that new GMT though. Especially because of the dimensions and theres no shot that my AD is going to call me for a Rolex GMT.
I’ve tried hard to love Tudor but there’s always something that holds me back. The closest I got was the S&G Blackbay on leather which had something about it. The new Blackbays iron out some wrinkles such as the thick looks and METAS plus T-Fit are all welcome so maybe one day something will call to me, just not yet.
Triumph Bike..Yes, 5 o' clock shadow..Yes. Cowboy Boots. Ok ish. At least it's Pair Boots. Mmm Ripped Jeans, Ah that be a No No & A NO ( Hamster, Sorry HIPSTER ). Tobacco Breath Defo. As for a Bigger Vegetable..! Now that Just down right Offensive & Sexist..im Offended.😅😅😅😅
100% agree with this analysis, though my conclusion is a bit different. There's no question that Tudor are replaying Rolex's old hits, but it's because Rolex's old hits happen to be so popular and desirable just at the minute. So Tudor is going where there is a strong market, because Rolex certainly aren't going to. I do think Tudor has the capacity to do original stuff (the Pelagos springs to mind), and perhaps they will expand more of that in the future, too. But for the moment, I have no issues with brand new movements and metallurgy wrapped up in the designs of Rolex's past, with a very high level of fit and finish (something homage companies can't match).
Nice appraisal with some sublime movie clips to illustrate your arguments. Made me chuckle over my morning coffee. It's the Pelagos that I keep coming back to! You pointed it out as an exception to the "apparent" Tudor "tribute brand" rule!
Very well said. Personally agree that they are hashing out old discontinued Rolex greats. I’ve owned two Tudors, still have my BB58. But, there hasn’t been much innovation from the brand. I don’t like the change of the seconds hand with these new releases- now the lineup is mixed snowflake and lollipop.
I've no doubt you're right about the brand and its current products. But whether that matters depends on why you buy the watch. I know next to nothing about vintage Rolex, or indeed Tudor itself, but I bought my BB58 simply because I liked it - as a modern watch. Five years on, I feel exactly the same way.
I steeled myself to hate this, thinking maybe you were being contrary just because you enjoy it. But no, you weren't; it was a considered opinion, well thought out and well made and you played with the viewer with the clips echoing the sentiment you knew we might have. Enjoyed this take.
I got you and agree with your perception. We all have been noticing it for a while and pointing out the similarities with previous Rolex models. Oisin, I would love to hear what Lenny has to say about this year’s Watches and Wonders releases. I miss him so much. Please, let the beast out!
First video of yours I’ve come across and watched till the end. Totally get the point you’re making. And it’s good for thought. A different perspective getting the viewer to stop and think; rather than follow blindly the masses. I for one, have the ND Sub, and have always enjoyed the classic look of the BB’s and GMTs from Tudor. A with a small wrist I’ve been waiting for those designs to be made in smaller case size; so I’m a big fan of the 58 range. And I want a tool watch that’s tough and a daily wearer; but I want that new movement inside and a retro look too; which Tudor checks. It would indeed be good to see them as a brand do more in terms of expanding the range for more independent to Tudor designs.
Like the take on it .... but - why does tudor have to gilt everything up? And with the gold black bay they finally removed the rivets (hopefully they extend that to all the models)
You said it right once, Tudor is the Rolex nostalgia room and I’m entirely ok with that. Owning also a few Rolex icons from the early ‘00, I feel more comfortable wearing Tudor on daily basis, but I stick to Heritage models only - Monte Carlo, black Smiley, Ranger (avoided the BB54 for price and size reasons) - the remaining standard models aren’t my cup of tea, especially since they started using in house movements pushing their pricing beyond what I still consider their league in MHO.
I own the panda Chrono, and love it. Also I am a big fan of the brand. I do agree, that Tudor does give it's fans more of what they want. I personally like the 42mm Pelagos and would love to see an update to that model. Also like the Opaline GMT.
Bang on I’d say..great take on current Tudor/Rolex shenanigans… I wear my Tudors to beat them up and wear my Rolex for flash..so that kinda makes what your saying stack up for me at least.
@@herbtube7824 taste is subjective :) … but IMO, aside from skydwellers, rolex styling doesnt resonate with me, and items such as tudor bb 58 GMT are better executed than the Og submariner…
Great video. This is why I like the Black Bay with burgundy bezel, the all blue and gilt Black bay 58 and the FXD. They are Tudor with credibility with their own character.
I don’t disagree & yet I still love my BB! It’s just a fantastic watch that doesn’t project anything I don’t want to communicate - my workplace doesn’t have a “flex” culture and wearing my BB doesn’t get the attention that a Sub would- that works for me. I also have the blue FXD & think it’s one of the most fun watches fo wear due to its uniqueness - (countdown, fully indexed bezel/fixed lugs). Additionally, Tudor is a brand that watch geeks can enjoy without spending so much money or waiting so long on a list. I have a Rolex too and love it for different reasons. Which is to say- the brands have definitely moved in terms of the roles they play in the market, and it seems at this point that they’re being really successful at it. However, I do understand how that might leave you a little cold - so very interesting points Oisin!
The main difference between Rolex, Tudor, and other brands..... is the feel. Every time you pick one up, put it on, take it off, unscrew Trip Lock™, wind, set, wind some more, screw in Trip Lock™, put back down, is a true joy ; ) Have not worn a Tudor in ages, but that 'Real Mans Watch' comment made my wrist swell a quarter of an inch, and I will dig something chunky out right now! 😈😂
I believe Rolex is trying to move Tudor up and make it the Rolex of a few years ago. The professional toolwatch, the watch you get as a graduation gift, a special anniversary or as a retirement gift. That's why they make watches the public is looking for. Rolex themselve is becoming more exclusive and doesn't want the average Joe as a client anymore. They want to be seen as highly exclusive. That's why they release a ridiculous 18k Deepsea and diamond studded Daytonas.
Another great vid! I personally love what Tudor are doing and "giving the people what they want" - i have the opaline gmt and a blue 42 pelagos - love them - - - but then I also love Pink Floyd (seen them 8 times over 35 years) and only at the weekend saw The UK Pink Floyd Experience in Cambridge - - why? Because they bring alive Pink Floyd where the original is "impossible" - just like in watches how Rolex is "impossible" to many - Tudor brings the smiles again!
Love my Tudor Ranger and BB58. Also a huge Pink Floyd fan and I’ve seen all the best Floyd cover bands. I think it’s amazing these bands are incredible😊
This idea of Tudor watches being a poor man’s Rolex, was over 25 years ago. The same example then was that Porsche boxster was the poor man’s Porsche. It was the 911 that every one wanted. I bought the poor man’s Porsche boxster that cost me 30k. I was very happy being in the poor man’s bracket of Porsche. Because it was far better than a fiesta, or ford escort. Now the poor man’s Porsche boxster are £ 55k up to £125k. Is that still classed as being a poor man’s Porsche. Anyway if you like the Tudor watch forget what other people think or say about the watch. They are not the ones wearing it. Just go with your own instincts. I own Rolex, Tudor watches. I’m just as happy wearing my Casio world time watch as much as the other brands.
Bad analogy, a Porsche is still a Porsche, it's like buying a 3 series instead of the M5. Tudor is crap and you either buy a Rolex or an alternative like omega, iwc etc not a Tudor
@@coffeeboyclips1973 I disagree with your opinion.. The boxster is a great Porsche.. Had the 911 and the boxster is as much fun .. Got the Daytona and a black bay.. The black bay is my preference as it’s more fun to wear as the Daytona just wants to be stolen..
A wristwatch isn't a piece of music or a painting. Yes, representational art is dead, and Pink Floyd has moved on, but you still want to be able to go out and buy a Brooks Brothers winter-weight oxford cloth button-down shirt, some LL Bean Maine Hunting Shoes, or a Barbour International waxed-cotton riding jacket. You should also be able to get a Rolex GMT that isn't bling'd out with a ceramic bezel and that costs ten prices. If Rolex is willing to make classic watches through its Tudor sub-brand, more power to 'em.
Once again (agree or not) you sum this (watch) crap up in a professional, thoughtful way. I mostly agree with your ideas here (though I would not have been able to come up with it as nicely as you do) Yes your Site is more than "watches" - but you still have something to offer the hobby.
Ive had 4 Tudors in the past 24 months, both of the Chronos in Panda and reverse panda configurations, the GMT and the BB Pro. I can say from experience that their in house movements are no joke in terms of accuracy. They’re as good as any Rolex or Omega movements, good stuff! Oisin raised an interesting point though, is Tudor painting themselves up too much as Rolex’ tribute band? As much as I love Tudors, I dont think I could argue with that assessment. *writing this while wearing my 16570
2024 was clearly a nostalgia release year for Tudor, so I'm hoping 2025 will head in a different direction. Maybe Tudor's in-house column wheel chrono will arrive as an entirely new product line.
Always fun hearing people vent when Rolex don't give them 'what they want'. Luxury brands don't give a damn what people want - generally, they decide for you - "tastemakers, not followers" is pretty much the basis of value in any luxury brand, and Rolex is no exception. Love the Pelagos range, but the BB leave me feeling a bit 'meh' (I do like that Chrono you have, but two-tone makes me look like a gangster!)
Love your videos. I am travelling to Venice soon and wanted to ask your opinion on wearing a nice watch while exploring the city. What do you think? Thanks
Hilarious cut scenes! I have the Tudor GMT S&G and, like you, it gets more compliments than any of my Rolexes. A lot of fair points made. Rolex is definitely using Tudor to look back on references and cash in on that and I think that’s great. The watch market is somewhat of a bottomless pit where no one is ever satiated. Tudor is still at an achievable price point with budgeting and saving. The retort that the brand is not a “poor man’s Rolex”, but a Man’s Rolex is a good reply.
An excellent and insightful video. I personally have no connection with or passion for Rolex so enjoy Tudor at face value, but having watched this I can see why a Rolex connoisseur (so to speak) would object to some of Tudor’s releases. That was also a cracking selection of clips to punctuate your points! Very entertaining.
For me it was down to : I can buy the Tudor at dealer. Can’t find a steel Rolex at an AD. Also, frankly, I’m worried about wearing my Rolex in SF, Chicago, LA or London. I don’t think twice about wearing the Tudor.
F’ng LOL!!!! Great video man. Couple of things. The BB54 is the small crown. The 58 is the 6538. The new GMT is fantastic. There are two things going on. Tudor is making those throw backs for today. The Pussy Galore GMT was the hit, the bang of this year hands down. They aren’t just giving us what we want they are saying we are continuing what Rolex used to be which you hit it on the nail. Lastly, Rolex is going after Patek. Slowly and methodical as we know Rolex to be. Tudor as you said is a man’s Rolex. This is true. Rolex is over priced and they are moving up as far as their customer base. They are going phased out entry level models soon I feel or at the very least make them from precious medals. There are plenty of things Tudor does that Rolex cannot and I agree with you on that 100% because they are moving. Greta video and keep them coming.
Oh well, after 2 months of going around Tudor and Rolex ADs, I bought the BB58 GMT 39mm for my collection of GMTs, and it's going to be my watch to go when I have to travel to places where the Rolex would attract too much attention. And I love it, the gilt is great it's different from any other modern watch. It has its own reason to exist
It’s interesting that Tudor remakes classic Rolexes, and we rave about them. Then at the same time, we look down our noses at all the other homage watches (San Martin, Invicta, Steinhart, Pagani, etc.). I do it myself; I have a Squale 1545 GMT that looks like a Rolex 116710. I feel self-conscious wearing the Squale…I feel like it’s (I’m) trying to be something it’s (I’m) not. There’s really not much difference between these homages & what Tudor is doing, actually. I should probably just wear my Squale & be happy. That said, I love my blue BB58.
Exactly. This is why I get irritated. The Tudor product may be a bit better quality than Steinhart but fanboys have somehow hated on other homage watches as cheap knockoffs and then decide to argue that Tudor is on par with Omega. lol.
@@BFit25 Got an Olko version Steve McQueen. Very nice, well built watch. Just got a BB58 nato. They will sit side by side with no judgement from me and that's all that matters.
In the past, I've been curious about Tudor, looked a Ranger, a BB58 and things like the snowflake hands, faux bracelet rivets and the slab sided case irritated me. However, this 41mm Bllack Bay seems to have fixed a lot of it. The Monochrome on 5 link is trying to pull £4k out of me. 😅
Hi I think it's a way that Rolex can test the market and then later refine their versions to the perfect watch so they get a winner every time. But I don't know how they got to the all gold deepsea. Maybe because the yacht-master 2 was so unpopular and over complicated they thought get a big heavy gold deepsea to replace it as it's a lot more popular. I own the black bay chronograph bi metal love it great watch gets as much wrist time as Rolex . good video thanks John.👍
I have a bb58 blue , changed the strap to a Forstner didn’t like the faux rivets and it’s perfect it’s that comfortable don’t know it’s on the wrist !! can’t say that about my Rolex deepsea
I agree with your criticisms. Every time i bring it up I get roasted by the fan boys but it's fine. The watches are good quality for the price but a strong majority of their product line shows they are basically an homage brand.
Thank you once again for an acute analysis and a thoroughly reasoned opinion. While not disagreeing, I would offer balancing considerations. The HW foundation has a narrow path to walk and they seem able to strike a great balance between experimenting on Tudor and staying conservative on Rolex. They may want to develop Tudor without damaging Rolex. Simultaneously, the heritage of HW's mindset is strongly respected. It results in a primadonna Rolex, loved/hated and going it's own path & a daring Tudor experimenting with nostalgia but also with excellent own designs like 1926, Pelagos, Clair de Rose and Royal... all that luxury at reasonable price. We are talking top quality luxury items here, so please correctly compare competitors: Omega, not Longines. That's loyal to HW's mission, waiting lists are just part of the difference in affordability. Allow me to digress: how many beautiful own collections does (great) Omega have? Do we agree that PP is the master of "ugly yet expensive" watches? How do the collections of AP or VC compare to the Rolex/Tudor conglomerate? I can't help but congratulate the foundation for the many great watches they deliver every year and hope they'll be able to refine a strategy that keeps the myth alive, which is everything else but trivial. A wise man once said "they lead, and we follow" - I don't love all their watches, but I surely love their attitude.
🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️ You kill me with this one for sure 🤣🤣🤣 , Amazing editing and I love all the old movies brings back good memories 🍿, True here for sure 👌🏾
Rolex got its start as a tool watch company. This was their claim to fame. However, in recent years, the mechanical watch became a status symbol. With increasing competition, Rolex seemed to jump onto the bandwagon to go upstream into the realm of jewelry. However, they do not want to give up their tool watch niche. Tudor backfills this niche very handsomely. It is naïve to think that the two companies do not market side-by-side as they are under the same parent foundation. Many folks will simply buy a Tudor Black Bay or GMT, not because they can’t afford the Rolex; they just can’t get the Rolex! Why wait list for a Rolex that you could potentially never buy when you can get what you want in a Tudor. Great tool Watches at an affordable price.
“People used to say that Tudor is a poor man’s Rolex to which I always say remove poor, it’s the man’s Rolex.” “Perhaps Rolex is just the overpriced Tudor.” Pure gold Oisin!
Purchased a Tudor style 38mm a year and a half ago. I love it and only wear it on special occasions. Very happy with my purchase as it was only slightly out of my budget.
Tudor is the sister to Rolex. Always will be. In the military world being retired Army after 21 years of service, we wore Tudor, as the shield protects the realm. Tudor is a military persons watch for sure. I love and will always wear my Tudor Pelagos FXD with pride.
Yup, Just ordered a BB58 while wearing my Hamilton field watch.
Henry Ford famously said Never ask the customers what they want, My customers wanted a faster horse.
Henry Ford never said that
I look at it through the lens of the record business: I don't mind Tudor being Rolex's reissue label, putting out official, remastered, high-quality versions of old Rolex releases rather than leaving it up to bootlegs and cover versions. You can buy an original, mint copy of Coltrane's Sound on Atlantic for $300 dollars or you could buy the Rhino reissue for $30 that isn't as collectable but is pressed and packaged to higher standards than Atlantic's albums from 1960s, but you have that Rhino logo on the label. I see Tudor the same way-a new Black Bay 54 costs a fraction of the vintage Rolex (or even the vintage Tudor) it's based on, yet it's objectively a more durable, higher quality product. The only problem with Tudor is that they refuse to be honest about who they are with the whole "Born To Dare" branding. Nothing is less "daring" than recreating the most desirable references from Rolex's past, no matter who Tudor pays to flog them.
They do take chances, people just don’t buy them in the same way they do the black bay line
@@AH-sn9sl I can't think of a Tudor that did anything really interesting since they killed the North Flag off. The new cycling-themed chrono maybe?
Am I the only one who sees huge similarities between the watch world and the guitar world? At this point I see Rolex as being like Gibson and Tudor is like Epiphone. Musicians will understand, hopefully.
And Paul McCartney played an Epiphone…nuff said!
Squire V Custom Shop
Depends how you rock it
Disagree. Tudor is not made in China by slave labor. And Tudor is in fact the secondary brand that focuses on the classic designs for enthusiasts- more like the Gibson custom shop. I’m looking to get the new 58 GMT - so much nicer than the current Rolex GMTs and more like a vintage model.
I have a Mexican made Baja tele that is, in my opinion, outstanding. It cost me about $900 7 years ago. I see no reason to upgrade to an American made or a Custom Shop guitar. The Baja is definitely the Tudor to the Custom Shop's Rolex.
I personally love that Tudor are making the classics available at an attainable price and with modern quality. As a brand though, their catalogue feels like a mess. Black bay everything (genuinely what is the common link in the line?), ranger is another vintage inspired piece, royal is a dud. Pelagos is the one modern piece that’s interesting.
Honestly couldn't agree more, which is why I really like Tudor for what they are. (You could look into using a small wind shield to reduce your mic sibilance)
Spot on Oisín, per usual. As for my view, I thank the gods that Rolex has a sister brand platform where they can resurrect classic old Rolex models. Because the alternative, is that those great watch designs would end up as nothing more than museum pieces, viewed through a glass case. And those designs are too good for that; they deserve to live and be enjoyed on the wrist. The fact that they're doing that at a price point that more men can afford (than if it were Rolex) is icing on the cake.
There are a few special Tudor designs as well: I wear a Tudor North Flag, with a very unique tool watch design and bracelet. It's the most masculine watch I own.
I just attended a Tudor event and the BB58 GMT is absolutely gorgeous!
I loved Tudor when they were 'the poor man's Rolex'. You could take it out and jackhammer the streets of Geneva, according to the ads. When they went their own way, you got the butt-ugly North Flag. Now they're back, making classy and refined versions of the overblown, pretentious and overpriced Rolex GMTs and Submariners. A welcome development. Just cause some people like it, doesn't mean it's bad.
I like the North Flag! 😂
@@brent54321 and I’ll defend to the death your right to say that 🤢
Indeed, beyond poor man’s Rolex, they’re just just what Rolex used to be a couple of decades ago. Rolex will just continue to push upmarket into there luxury fashion space, where everything is hype and scarcity.
It's copycat Rolex...5 digit rolex look alike
Awesome, cheeky vid Oisin.. I love both Rolex and Tudor.. I own both, but wear my Tudors daily
My BB58 gets too much time on my wrist - the explore, sub and datejust are jealous. BB58 is so easy to tell time on a quick glance. Submariner no-date not as easy to read on a quick glance.
VERY TRUE!! But isnt that the Hans Wilsdorfs wish?? Rolex’s with different movements at a modest price point?? Call it a cover band but it is what it is.
They follow Wilfdorfs wish indeed but it means no brand identity and let us call it like that
@@witoldkramarz2500 in essense they are all brand Hans Wilsdorf Foundation.
The materials ceramic, bronz, carbon fiber, silver. They are a extention of the Hans brand at different price points
I am 48 and I can say I got to see Pink Floyd live in 1994 at foxboro stadium . It was awesome . Saucerful of secrets is my top . Great video Cin Cin 🥂
I was at that very same concert, high school graduation gift/trip LOL
@@josephferris76 same here class of 94
I was at that show too when I was 24. Never woulda thought that 30 years I’d be into watches let alone watching a show on the Internet about watches!😂
I couldn’t agree more. I owned the Tudor GMT when it first came out and while I liked the watch, I never fell in love because it was a copy of the Rolex model which I really wanted. I wish they would come out with more original designs. I’m one of the few that like the north flag it seems and I was a fan of the P01. The Pelagos is the watch that gets my attention the most because it’s far more original in design. What kills me the most about the brand is having so many watches under the black bay name plate. I find it extremely lazy to have 9 separate models under it and a few of them have sub model variants. Saying all of that they are great watches and I’m sure I’ll add another to my collection but they need to do something different to make me want to spend my money and not look at the other options in the $4-6k range.
I loved tudor sometime ago,but now its a little like a hit song you heard all the time everywhere,and at the end they finish to make you hate the song you were loved so much...
Tudor fanchap, here. Couldn’t agree more.
Perfect pitch and, as always, very entertaining. Thanks Oisin.
This sank in. But you’re actually right. I’ll now think of that when looking at Tudor.
Then again - as you said - they’re a beautiful way to own a classic for a better price and have a more durable version. Nothing wrong with that. 😎
After resisting for a few years I am surprised how much I like my black Pelagos 500m. It is the best legible watch under any light conditions.
I haven't seen the new 58 GMT in the metal yet but i am keen to. For me this isn't about fan service, its more finally getting the design and proportions right of the GMT as the old ones just had too much heft to them and that was in all likelihood holding back sales. I for one looked at the old model and nearly pulled the trigger but the thickness stopped me. I don't see that as grounds to be disappointed.
I got the Tudor GMT because I couldn't really afford the GMT master II, I could get it there and then and I wanted to celebrate getting my dream job. The watch to me has ended up being more than a poor mans Rolex. It signifies what I have achieved.... and I got it on 0% finance which meant I could put the purchase amount in a high yield savings account for the 4 years of the agreement. WIN!
Great video. I feel you 100 %. My take-away after handing the Black Bay 58 GMT at a local dealer was wow! Thinner case, master certified movement and a strong retro nod to the original Black Bay 58 made for the perfect launch. I personally love it and will be purchasing one. I do believe they should in the near future release different color ways and even a no date function for the seemingly mass amount consumers who prefer a more sterile dial. It is also of my opinion that the majority of these opinions, be them negative or positive, come from non-consumers. By this I mean, individuals who have never interacted with this watch or the Tudor brand for that matter. A video or a photo of something can only capture so much. Thats my two and a half cents. ✌
LOVE THIS VIDEO ! EXCELLENT JOB AND INTELLIGENT INSIGHT !
Bought a panda Tudor tiger woods in 1998 on a oyster bracelet and it’s still my favorite watch. My first nice watch I purchased. Fits me perfectly and is comfortable to wear. Next favorite is my Peligos LHD. Definitely a man’s watch.
And he's back!
Great vid thoughtful thought provoking and superb production as we've come to expect. Personally speaking I like indie watches bespoke watches mass produced watches expensive watches and homages. This hobby is so inclusive it's cool if you're wearing a Rolex sub a Tudor homage or San Martin homage.
Buy what you like
My friend and I had the same thoughts about Tudor recently too. We both enjoyed the BB58 Navy and the BB58 925, but year after year it’s seems Tudor just kept releasing pieces that we would like Rolex to release, but never did. They miss the mark just by one or two details that my Tudors didn’t become keepers in the collection.
I think their Pelagos FXD is one of the few in their product lines that actually stand out. The Marine Nationale or even the new FXD cyclist version are so unique that they are enticing me to get back to the brand after letting go of their BBPro, Pepsi BB GMT, black Pelagos - all thick and top heavy in the end.
I own three tudors and still I think you make some great points. I still want to get that new GMT though. Especially because of the dimensions and theres no shot that my AD is going to call me for a Rolex GMT.
I’ve tried hard to love Tudor but there’s always something that holds me back. The closest I got was the S&G Blackbay on leather which had something about it. The new Blackbays iron out some wrinkles such as the thick looks and METAS plus T-Fit are all welcome so maybe one day something will call to me, just not yet.
If you model yourself on David Dickinson, your never going to like Tudor are you?
The Tudor guy:
- Triumph Motorcycle
- 5 o’clock Shadow
- Cowboy Boots
- Ripped Jeans
- Tobacco Breath
- Bigger 🍆
- Oisin in a previous video. 💪🏽
And then there is me:
Toyota Yaris
Full beard
Brouge boots
P44 USMC trousers
Bad breath
Small 🍆
That’s what makes it the perfect watch. Classy enough for the board room and casual enough for those weekends hanging out with the bros.
🤣Close...
-Ducati
-scruffy Asian man goatee
-RM Williams Chelseas
-Coffee breath mixed with cigar breath
-average eggplant
Owns it.
Triumph Bike..Yes, 5 o' clock shadow..Yes. Cowboy Boots. Ok ish. At least it's Pair Boots. Mmm Ripped Jeans, Ah that be a No No & A NO ( Hamster, Sorry HIPSTER ). Tobacco Breath Defo. As for a Bigger Vegetable..! Now that Just down right Offensive & Sexist..im Offended.😅😅😅😅
6 times "no"!
Your source is suspect.
100% agree with this analysis, though my conclusion is a bit different. There's no question that Tudor are replaying Rolex's old hits, but it's because Rolex's old hits happen to be so popular and desirable just at the minute. So Tudor is going where there is a strong market, because Rolex certainly aren't going to. I do think Tudor has the capacity to do original stuff (the Pelagos springs to mind), and perhaps they will expand more of that in the future, too. But for the moment, I have no issues with brand new movements and metallurgy wrapped up in the designs of Rolex's past, with a very high level of fit and finish (something homage companies can't match).
Nice appraisal with some sublime movie clips to illustrate your arguments. Made me chuckle over my morning coffee.
It's the Pelagos that I keep coming back to! You pointed it out as an exception to the "apparent" Tudor "tribute brand" rule!
Very well said. Personally agree that they are hashing out old discontinued Rolex greats. I’ve owned two Tudors, still have my BB58. But, there hasn’t been much innovation from the brand. I don’t like the change of the seconds hand with these new releases- now the lineup is mixed snowflake and lollipop.
I've no doubt you're right about the brand and its current products. But whether that matters depends on why you buy the watch. I know next to nothing about vintage Rolex, or indeed Tudor itself, but I bought my BB58 simply because I liked it - as a modern watch. Five years on, I feel exactly the same way.
I steeled myself to hate this, thinking maybe you were being contrary just because you enjoy it. But no, you weren't; it was a considered opinion, well thought out and well made and you played with the viewer with the clips echoing the sentiment you knew we might have. Enjoyed this take.
I think tudor is getting popular as it's one of the few watches us plebs can afford.
I got you and agree with your perception. We all have been noticing it for a while and pointing out the similarities with previous Rolex models.
Oisin, I would love to hear what Lenny has to say about this year’s Watches and Wonders releases. I miss him so much. Please, let the beast out!
First video of yours I’ve come across and watched till the end.
Totally get the point you’re making. And it’s good for thought. A different perspective getting the viewer to stop and think; rather than follow blindly the masses.
I for one, have the ND Sub, and have always enjoyed the classic look of the BB’s and GMTs from Tudor. A with a small wrist I’ve been waiting for those designs to be made in smaller case size; so I’m a big fan of the 58 range. And I want a tool watch that’s tough and a daily wearer; but I want that new movement inside and a retro look too; which Tudor checks.
It would indeed be good to see them as a brand do more in terms of expanding the range for more independent to Tudor designs.
Like the take on it .... but - why does tudor have to gilt everything up? And with the gold black bay they finally removed the rivets (hopefully they extend that to all the models)
I share your sentiment. I quite despise the entire gilt/fauxtina phase the industry is going through and can’t wait for it to be over
You said it right once, Tudor is the Rolex nostalgia room and I’m entirely ok with that. Owning also a few Rolex icons from the early ‘00, I feel more comfortable wearing Tudor on daily basis, but I stick to Heritage models only - Monte Carlo, black Smiley, Ranger (avoided the BB54 for price and size reasons) - the remaining standard models aren’t my cup of tea, especially since they started using in house movements pushing their pricing beyond what I still consider their league in MHO.
I own the panda Chrono, and love it. Also I am a big fan of the brand. I do agree, that Tudor does give it's fans more of what they want. I personally like the 42mm Pelagos and would love to see an update to that model. Also like the Opaline GMT.
I am very happy with my Tudor Black Bay 58 🙂
Bang on I’d say..great take on current Tudor/Rolex shenanigans… I wear my Tudors to beat them up and wear my Rolex for flash..so that kinda makes what your saying stack up for me at least.
Fun video with the movie snippets. I do like your analogy that Tudor is a top notch tribute band.
i think the tudor just look better than the original rolex designs…
…well, have another look at them ;-)
@@herbtube7824 taste is subjective :) … but IMO, aside from skydwellers, rolex styling doesnt resonate with me, and items such as tudor bb 58 GMT are better executed than the Og submariner…
Seeing this way after production. Make you right Oisin. 👍🏻
I love the new Tudor sub ❤
You mean the pelagos 39?
@@Sirkelsag666 No, the Tudor Black Bay METAS, Ref. M7941A1A0NU
Smashing video👍Don’t know why people scrap over Tudor and Rolex. Both great. And neither are cheap!
Great video. This is why I like the Black Bay with burgundy bezel, the all blue and gilt Black bay 58 and the FXD. They are Tudor with credibility with their own character.
I don’t disagree & yet I still love my BB! It’s just a fantastic watch that doesn’t project anything I don’t want to communicate - my workplace doesn’t have a “flex” culture and wearing my BB doesn’t get the attention that a Sub would- that works for me. I also have the blue FXD & think it’s one of the most fun watches fo wear due to its uniqueness - (countdown, fully indexed bezel/fixed lugs). Additionally, Tudor is a brand that watch geeks can enjoy without spending so much money or waiting so long on a list. I have a Rolex too and love it for different reasons. Which is to say- the brands have definitely moved in terms of the roles they play in the market, and it seems at this point that they’re being really successful at it. However, I do understand how that might leave you a little cold - so very interesting points Oisin!
Holy crap, Oisin and I agree on something! Cheers mate!
I think the original FXD was a better release than Rolex has had in decades tbh
The main difference between Rolex, Tudor, and other brands..... is the feel.
Every time you pick one up, put it on, take it off, unscrew Trip Lock™, wind, set, wind some more, screw in Trip Lock™, put back down, is a true joy ; )
Have not worn a Tudor in ages, but that 'Real Mans Watch' comment made my wrist swell a quarter of an inch, and I will dig something chunky out right now! 😈😂
You contradicted yourself in the 3rd sentence. Go try a Tudor
@@skivailfast I don't see how so.
Thank U Oisín, Yes indeed, When I Grow Up I Will Sell My entire Watch Collection & Buy my "Man's Watch" MY GRAIL "Tudor Watch"..! ❤
There is nothing wrong looking like your own family. Rolex and Tudor are cut from the same cloth. Great Job Tudor
Cutaways working nicely
Nice one mate!! That certainly gives you something to think about!! All your content is excellent mate!! 😊
My god what a great video! The finale tied it all up so so well and the clips from movies are perfect. And the chrono Tudor is a very man’s man watch
Hence I have a black Pelagos 42 plus I don't like faux rivets.
I believe Rolex is trying to move Tudor up and make it the Rolex of a few years ago. The professional toolwatch, the watch you get as a graduation gift, a special anniversary or as a retirement gift. That's why they make watches the public is looking for.
Rolex themselve is becoming more exclusive and doesn't want the average Joe as a client anymore. They want to be seen as highly exclusive. That's why they release a ridiculous 18k Deepsea and diamond studded Daytonas.
Another great vid! I personally love what Tudor are doing and "giving the people what they want" - i have the opaline gmt and a blue 42 pelagos - love them - - - but then I also love Pink Floyd (seen them 8 times over 35 years) and only at the weekend saw The UK Pink Floyd Experience in Cambridge - - why? Because they bring alive Pink Floyd where the original is "impossible" - just like in watches how Rolex is "impossible" to many - Tudor brings the smiles again!
Love my Tudor Ranger and BB58. Also a huge Pink Floyd fan and I’ve seen all the best Floyd cover bands. I think it’s amazing these bands are incredible😊
Agree. I bought the Pelagos. Wouldn’t buy any others. But I guess if you want a vintage Rolex look for a fraction of the price, maybe.
Pelagos the best independet Model Series Tudor!
This idea of Tudor watches being a poor man’s Rolex, was over 25 years ago. The same example then was that Porsche boxster was the poor man’s Porsche. It was the 911 that every one wanted. I bought the poor man’s Porsche boxster that cost me 30k. I was very happy being in the poor man’s bracket of Porsche. Because it was far better than a fiesta, or ford escort. Now the poor man’s Porsche boxster are £ 55k up to £125k. Is that still classed as being a poor man’s Porsche. Anyway if you like the Tudor watch forget what other people think or say about the watch. They are not the ones wearing it. Just go with your own instincts. I own Rolex, Tudor watches. I’m just as happy wearing my Casio world time watch as much as the other brands.
Bad analogy, a Porsche is still a Porsche, it's like buying a 3 series instead of the M5. Tudor is crap and you either buy a Rolex or an alternative like omega, iwc etc not a Tudor
@@coffeeboyclips1973
I disagree with your opinion..
The boxster is a great Porsche..
Had the 911 and the boxster is as much fun ..
Got the Daytona and a black bay..
The black bay is my preference as it’s more fun to wear as the Daytona just wants to be stolen..
A wristwatch isn't a piece of music or a painting. Yes, representational art is dead, and Pink Floyd has moved on, but you still want to be able to go out and buy a Brooks Brothers winter-weight oxford cloth button-down shirt, some LL Bean Maine Hunting Shoes, or a Barbour International waxed-cotton riding jacket. You should also be able to get a Rolex GMT that isn't bling'd out with a ceramic bezel and that costs ten prices. If Rolex is willing to make classic watches through its Tudor sub-brand, more power to 'em.
Until recently it was Tudor leading the way with innovation. Experimenting with different materials like 925 silver, titanium, and ceramic.
Once again (agree or not) you sum this (watch) crap up in a professional, thoughtful way. I mostly agree with your ideas here (though I would not have been able to come up with it as nicely as you do) Yes your Site is more than "watches" - but you still have something to offer the hobby.
Great perspective on the Tudor/Rolex dynamic.
100% agree with this. I used to be a Tudor fanboy, now I just appreciate it for that it is
Ive had 4 Tudors in the past 24 months, both of the Chronos in Panda and reverse panda configurations, the GMT and the BB Pro. I can say from experience that their in house movements are no joke in terms of accuracy. They’re as good as any Rolex or Omega movements, good stuff! Oisin raised an interesting point though, is Tudor painting themselves up too much as Rolex’ tribute band? As much as I love Tudors, I dont think I could argue with that assessment. *writing this while wearing my 16570
2024 was clearly a nostalgia release year for Tudor, so I'm hoping 2025 will head in a different direction. Maybe Tudor's in-house column wheel chrono will arrive as an entirely new product line.
Been waiting for this! 👍
I wholeheartedly agree with you. Also am Tudor chrono gold owner here.
hahah love that Big Lebowski quote, funny.
Always fun hearing people vent when Rolex don't give them 'what they want'. Luxury brands don't give a damn what people want - generally, they decide for you - "tastemakers, not followers" is pretty much the basis of value in any luxury brand, and Rolex is no exception. Love the Pelagos range, but the BB leave me feeling a bit 'meh' (I do like that Chrono you have, but two-tone makes me look like a gangster!)
Agree. Very cool to be in Venice and watching this!
Love your videos. I am travelling to Venice soon and wanted to ask your opinion on wearing a nice watch while exploring the city. What do you think? Thanks
These are all the words I wanted to say in an order that makes perfect sense
Hilarious cut scenes! I have the Tudor GMT S&G and, like you, it gets more compliments than any of my Rolexes. A lot of fair points made. Rolex is definitely using Tudor to look back on references and cash in on that and I think that’s great. The watch market is somewhat of a bottomless pit where no one is ever satiated. Tudor is still at an achievable price point with budgeting and saving. The retort that the brand is not a “poor man’s Rolex”, but a Man’s Rolex is a good reply.
An excellent and insightful video. I personally have no connection with or passion for Rolex so enjoy Tudor at face value, but having watched this I can see why a Rolex connoisseur (so to speak) would object to some of Tudor’s releases. That was also a cracking selection of clips to punctuate your points! Very entertaining.
Tudor is doing what it's supposed to do since the brand creation. Being a great Rolex alternative. So simple
For me it was down to : I can buy the Tudor at dealer. Can’t find a steel Rolex at an AD. Also, frankly, I’m worried about wearing my Rolex in SF, Chicago, LA or London. I don’t think twice about wearing the Tudor.
F’ng LOL!!!! Great video man. Couple of things. The BB54 is the small crown. The 58 is the 6538. The new GMT is fantastic. There are two things going on. Tudor is making those throw backs for today. The Pussy Galore GMT was the hit, the bang of this year hands down. They aren’t just giving us what we want they are saying we are continuing what Rolex used to be which you hit it on the nail.
Lastly, Rolex is going after Patek. Slowly and methodical as we know Rolex to be. Tudor as you said is a man’s Rolex. This is true. Rolex is over priced and they are moving up as far as their customer base. They are going phased out entry level models soon I feel or at the very least make them from precious medals. There are plenty of things Tudor does that Rolex cannot and I agree with you on that 100% because they are moving. Greta video and keep them coming.
I own a BB panda chrono and love the watch and I do agree with your statements.
Oh well, after 2 months of going around Tudor and Rolex ADs, I bought the BB58 GMT 39mm for my collection of GMTs, and it's going to be my watch to go when I have to travel to places where the Rolex would attract too much attention.
And I love it, the gilt is great it's different from any other modern watch. It has its own reason to exist
It’s interesting that Tudor remakes classic Rolexes, and we rave about them. Then at the same time, we look down our noses at all the other homage watches (San Martin, Invicta, Steinhart, Pagani, etc.). I do it myself; I have a Squale 1545 GMT that looks like a Rolex 116710. I feel self-conscious wearing the Squale…I feel like it’s (I’m) trying to be something it’s (I’m) not. There’s really not much difference between these homages & what Tudor is doing, actually. I should probably just wear my Squale & be happy.
That said, I love my blue BB58.
Exactly. This is why I get irritated. The Tudor product may be a bit better quality than Steinhart but fanboys have somehow hated on other homage watches as cheap knockoffs and then decide to argue that Tudor is on par with Omega. lol.
@@BFit25 Got an Olko version Steve McQueen. Very nice, well built watch. Just got a BB58 nato. They will sit side by side with no judgement from me and that's all that matters.
In the past, I've been curious about Tudor, looked a Ranger, a BB58 and things like the snowflake hands, faux bracelet rivets and the slab sided case irritated me. However, this 41mm Bllack Bay seems to have fixed a lot of it. The Monochrome on 5 link is trying to pull £4k out of me. 😅
Hi I think it's a way that Rolex can test the market and then later refine their versions to the perfect watch so they get a winner every time. But I don't know how they got to the all gold deepsea. Maybe because the yacht-master 2 was so unpopular and over complicated they thought get a big heavy gold deepsea to replace it as it's a lot more popular. I own the black bay chronograph bi metal love it great watch gets as much wrist time as Rolex . good video thanks John.👍
Great video excellent editing! The way a watch video should be shot.Thank you Oisin 👍
You‘re not wrong. Tudor is, what Tudor is. Would I buy one? Maybe the bb ceramic or the bb 58 928. I like exotic materials.
I tried the watch few days ago and it just works. Migth pull the trigger
This really was a love letter to tudor
Made me want to buy another one
I have a bb58 blue , changed the strap to a Forstner didn’t like the faux rivets and it’s perfect
it’s that comfortable don’t know it’s on the wrist !! can’t say that about my Rolex deepsea
I just know that before RUclips nobody was talking about Tudor 😅🤣😂
well before RUclips Tudor had left the us market so I struggle to see your point
Straight up facts
I’m old school and have vintage Rolex professional pieces and now own a Tudor Pepsi, the classic vintage styling blows new designs out of the water.
I agree with your criticisms. Every time i bring it up I get roasted by the fan boys but it's fine. The watches are good quality for the price but a strong majority of their product line shows they are basically an homage brand.
Thank you once again for an acute analysis and a thoroughly reasoned opinion. While not disagreeing, I would offer balancing considerations. The HW foundation has a narrow path to walk and they seem able to strike a great balance between experimenting on Tudor and staying conservative on Rolex. They may want to develop Tudor without damaging Rolex. Simultaneously, the heritage of HW's mindset is strongly respected. It results in a primadonna Rolex, loved/hated and going it's own path & a daring Tudor experimenting with nostalgia but also with excellent own designs like 1926, Pelagos, Clair de Rose and Royal... all that luxury at reasonable price. We are talking top quality luxury items here, so please correctly compare competitors: Omega, not Longines. That's loyal to HW's mission, waiting lists are just part of the difference in affordability. Allow me to digress: how many beautiful own collections does (great) Omega have? Do we agree that PP is the master of "ugly yet expensive" watches? How do the collections of AP or VC compare to the Rolex/Tudor conglomerate? I can't help but congratulate the foundation for the many great watches they deliver every year and hope they'll be able to refine a strategy that keeps the myth alive, which is everything else but trivial. A wise man once said "they lead, and we follow" - I don't love all their watches, but I surely love their attitude.
🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️ You kill me with this one for sure 🤣🤣🤣 , Amazing editing and I love all the old movies brings back good memories 🍿, True here for sure 👌🏾
Rolex got its start as a tool watch company. This was their claim to fame. However, in recent years, the mechanical watch became a status symbol. With increasing competition, Rolex seemed to jump onto the bandwagon to go upstream into the realm of jewelry. However, they do not want to give up their tool watch niche. Tudor backfills this niche very handsomely. It is naïve to think that the two companies do not market side-by-side as they are under the same parent foundation. Many folks will simply buy a Tudor Black Bay or GMT, not because they can’t afford the Rolex; they just can’t get the Rolex! Why wait list for a Rolex that you could potentially never buy when you can get what you want in a Tudor. Great tool Watches at an affordable price.
Gosh! This man loves the sound of his own voice. I only lasted to 4:30! So much clunky prevarication. That doesn't mean quality content.