Spec evo short : On the origin of 'breath attacks'
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- Everyone loves a good firebreathing dragon, or an expy of one. But are such things plausible, what is similar to them and how could such fanciful 'breath attacks' potentially work?
Patreon : / unnaturalhistorychannel
20:10 well shit
"MH6" COPIUM
Capcom Blue Balled us.
Im sorry, we might all be forced to watch the game awards for MH news
Tbh this probably was a blessing in disguise for you.
did not age well
One really under utilized type of "breath" type attack in spec evo and fantasy creatures in general is something akin to the horned lizard eye blood spray
The mythological bonnacon's signature trick is also a spray, albeit one coming from the wrong end of the beast. Not unlike a skunk, really, but even more revolting.
The fact that he didn't specifically talk about Dragons A Fantasy Made Real is absolutely criminal
Probably because that mock-umentary has a bad reputation. Considering how many people ended up thinking dragons could be real after seeing it.
@@kingdamazo7266I remember being a kid when it came out, I was so excited that dragons existed.
@@kingdamazo7266 wait people thought it was legit? I thought the implication that it was spec evo was apparent. Either way that isn't the show's fault, that is entirely on the fault of viewers.
@thenerdbeast7375 Well, children and early teens mostly. I definitely thought it was real at like 7-8 y/o. Remember though, there are grown adults who think Megalodon and Mermaids are alive because of Discovery Channel.
It's going in the book of grudges, it is
One of my personal favorite examples of a fictional setting attempting to justify dragons is Flight of Dragons, where it's explained that dragons swallow limestone (and gems to grind them up in their gizzard), building up hydrogen and expanding their honeycomb-shaped innards to thus be lighter than air (hence their bloated and blimp-like bodies), and they can stop floating by expelling hydrogen which comes out as fire thanks to a spark-producing thimble-shaped electrical organ in the roof of their mouth.
Haha, yeah, I came to the comments specifically to see if somebody had mentioned this yet.
Honestly, I'm amazed he didn't mention it. It's one of the seminal works of spec-evo, and the way it tied the answer to the "how does something so large fly" problem to the "how does fire breath work" problem was pretty brilliant.
I’m gonna drink redbull and eat a flaming marshmallow to become the first human to have a proper breath attack
I'd classify Projectile vomiting a breath attack
I think that would just make you another human in the hospital
@@Voc_spooksauce let him cook
A cool idea might be dragons using their fire for mating displays as adults, what better way to display your fitness to a potential mate than to show how big a fire ball you can produce. Alternatively a weak flame could be used for grooming as adults, craning their necks to lightly flambe torch potential parasites clinging on too stubbornly to armored scales for tooth and claw to dislodge.
I could also see them use it it as a way to mark territory since most dragons are usually reptiles and probably don’t have sent glands leaving burn marks could be a way of marking territory and letting other dragon know each other’s location.
@@troutinspace5427 Could be another use but is awfully expensive when visible claw scrapes would do.
@@troutinspace5427 Considering the need of proteins and other things to make their fire perhaps other dragons can pick up some remnants of them within the burn marks and get information about the status of the maker of the burns, perhaps it gets utilized seasonally or something
@@thenerdbeast7375 that the maybe they would just use it as places that border other dragons territory and not every day maybe like once a week to let others know there still there and since they use proteins and chemical to make the fire they could also use it as a way to show their overall comdition
@@rac1equalsbestgame853 maybe females could use it show if there respective to mates I imagine males wouldn’t want to walk into a females territory and get there face burnt and or mauled
I remember seeing years ago a mockumentary of Dragons being real. They expertly explained away the mechanics of the classic Fire Breathing. Explaining that Dragons live in mountainous regions for a resource that gives them this ability. A mineral that when introduced to specific gases can combust and that Dragons have a throat similar to Crocodiles or Alligators to protect their inner throat from any damage expelling fire might have. They have specially designed molar teeth that collects the crushed minerals after being eaten for later use
I think i saw that too, but i don't remember what it was called
@@Verdessa1273it’s called Dragons: A Fantasy Made Real. And the mineral they consumed was platinum.
Cool
If I remember right from 12 yrs gap in memory, the gas used was hydrogen; it collected hydrogen by letting raw flesh decay inside a special organ
This would aid in the dragon's flight. Having such heavily armored hide and a denser taxonomy is typically counter productive to flight. Thus, use of this organ's functions is severely limited to intraspecific confrontation and defense
The Dragons also used fire to cook meat in the mockumentary
Love it or hate it, that Tigrex is spitting straight quality content.
so glad that this tigrex was able to get a formal education
The quality is so high I got carted
I think Tetranadon is my favorite use of breath attacks in any fantasy monster.
Tetranadon seems to constantly carry at least a little water in its' stomach (or its specialized sac), for use to spit at attackers (considering what Tetranadon usually eats, it's safe to assume it only ever uses the water spitting in self-defense.)
Tetranadon can absolutely engorge itself with water to add more weight to itself- but then it can also empty its water sac with a powerful pressurized stream of watery vomit, like a balloon getting squeezed. Sure, it's exaggerated in some aspects, but it strikes me as something way more plausible than thunder breath.
Tetranodon does not just fills itself with water, but specifically also rocks as seen on certain animations, as a way to increase its weight and shift weight distribution for its Sumo stance.
While not as prevalent as breath attacks, a video or even just a discussion on fantasy creatures having the ability to shoot projectiles from their bodies like Nargacuga's tail spikes or similar would be interesting. I can only think of a few real world examples, such as Tarantula's hairs, but nothing like giant spiked scales being fired with the precision of some of MH's creatures.
I immediately thought of the Deadly Nadder from How to Train Your Dragon. Their tail spikes are pretty much the most iconic trait they have, being even more prevalent than their "magnesium-based" fire.
Another candidate I can think of would be porcupines. Sure, they can't use their quills as projectiles, but they can detach from their bodies. With this in mind, maybe creatures like nargacuga grow similar keratinised structures that it can launch at threats thanks to powerful swings from its tail.
@@Bob-vx6qd Or they are atached to some nerves that can loosen them for flinging and normally keep them tight enough to not fly off when it doesn't want to launch them
Nargacuga? Please enlighten me? I have an interest in this creature that is said to have a tail that shoots quills. It appears in many myths and stories. Like the Manticore. I just watched a Chinese video in which they found a secret door in the side of a mountain and they found some shed quills inside. Now you mention Narcaguga? Where is that from if you don't mind...I am really interested.
@@jerichothirteen1134
Nargacuga is a creature from the Monster Hunter franchise, having made its debut in "Monster Hunter: Freedom Unite" and appearing in several games after, including the current lead games "Monster Hunter World" and "Monster Hunter Rise". Its design is mostly based on a black panther but mixed with a wyvern, and its roar strongly resembles that of a cougar. It is an agile and stealthy predator relying on a pair of bladed wings and most infamously its spiked tail to keep hunters on the edge at all times. By swishing its tail around, it loosens the quills hidden within its fur, before firing them off with rapid flicks. In "Monster Hunter World", these quills can induce heavily bleeding which drains the hunter's health the more they move around.
That's something that always confused me, how do these creatures breath fire without frying thier teeth, gums and tounge or blasting the teeth out of thier mouths with the sheer power of the blast like Godzilla has?
Godzilla ignores physics because kaiju, but for dragons like the reign of fire ones the flame only ignites around a meter outside the jaws
Their could be some form of biomineralization within the mouth to help protect the inside of the mouth. Even something as keratin could be used since it can still be flexible while heat resistant.
I remember seeing years ago a mockumentary of Dragons being real. They expertly explained away the mechanics of the classic Fire Breathing. Explaining that Dragons live in mountainous regions for a resource that gives them this ability. A mineral that when introduced to specific gases can combust and that Dragons have a throat similar to Crocodiles or Alligators to protect their inner throat from any damage expelling fire might have. They have specially designed molar teeth that collects the crushed minerals after being eaten for later use. It was framed as a move done in the heat of desperation rather than something done constantly. If the Dragon was cornered or or feeling particularly wrathful they would spew fire but would otherwise use more common methods of attacking. Because even if they had the ability to breath fire it was a limited resource and if used extensively it could do some damage
On a similar note Bombardier Beetles also need to be careful because of both resource management and because they could potentially blow themselves up. Rather than a single spew of heat it’s more like a machine gun blast of fire. Demolition Experts could explain the mechanics of sequential explosions for controlled detonation but it’s similar here. If you explode multiple explosives at once it could easily go haywire and go in directions you don’t intend
Realism obsessed fried brain lol there probably some mild unrealistic adaptations godzilla has plus he has ridiculously fast unrealistic healing so if he does harm himself he would just heal the damage
yeah baby no MH6 announced but I'll take an Unnatural History video absolutely
Spittin fire (literally)
My first exposure to the idea of "scientifiic explanation for breath weapons" was in the old 1982 animated film "The Flight of Dragons" which utilized the idea of gas chambers you mentioned, though rather than just producing a burning gas they would consume large amounts of limestone which would interact their stomach acid and produce large amounts of hydrogen gas.
They'd then fill specialized pocket chambers in theri body with the hydrogen, which would help them flight as well, and when they need to breathe fire they'd pass the gas in a "belch" which would then be ignited by a bioelectric gland in the roof of their mouth. Of course, this meant that a dragon breathing fire would swiftly lose altitude when flying due to expelling the ignited hydrogen form their bodies.
Real classic film. Never read the book its based on though.
The book was quite similar, it's a pretty faithful adaptation. Never even saw the movie until 2020, but the book was a grandparental gift way back in...1981? Yeah, that sounds right. I remember doing a paper about it for high school biology.
Worth noting that the titular "flight of dragons" was a mating display where males would gather together in a spiral formation with the female at the apex, competing to see who could produce the most impressive flame displays while jockeying to achieve the highest altitude. "Courting failures" were often fatal (dragons were, frankly, badly adapted creatures, hence their rarity and eventual extinction) as an overreaching suitor expended so much hydrogen they were no longer able to manage even a survivable crash landing.
What do you think of the therocephalian dragons from Tales of Kaimere? The biggest ones spray a venomous cloud of sorts to bring down prey
Will be there The future is wild video Unnatural History Channel?
That's what I would like to know.
A pressured gas storage area sounds like a FANTASTIC weakpoint in a boss fight. Also, I'm reminded of Shin Godzilla's shark-like eye membranes that would protect the eyes during his own breath attacks. That and maybe some tougher tissue around the face might help with blowback from sneezing out boiling liquids. A dragon might tense it's mouth so delicate tissues fold in to be covered by more flame-resistant tissue, and so on. I don't design biological things, but those sound pretty cool to me. :D
Also, I really like the idea of dragon breath being a leftover. If there's legendary horror-beasts in the distant past, maybe it evolved in a time when dragons were more pressed to survive? There's a lot of ways to come at this, I think. It's good to know the pitfalls.
If breath attacks in nature are mostly a defence mechanism against predators, and especially with things like fire that won't kill quickly or reliably, I'd be both intrigued and terrified to know what predators dragons evolved to fend off.
I'd hypothesize that it'd be a repurposed evolutionary trait. Some time in its long evolutionary history, it may have been strictly defensive when it was a smaller creature and more centralized in the ecological food web, but as they grew in size and began occupying a dominant predatory niche, it may have become more useful during mating season to defend territory or in predation to stun or disable prey species by inflicting severe burns on skin tissue or on lung tissue.
I feel like fire breath as a mating display makes the most sense, like dragons invest so much energy in breathing fire as a mating display and for territorial disputes since the dragons would be nominally fire resistant so it would actually be a relatively safe way (especially for a flying creature) to fight out disputes with other dragons. Also I just love the idea of dragon mating rituals revolving around going to a mating site and trying to breath fire as high into the air as possible.
In my dragons I justify it as fulmur chick esque defenses bucked up to 11 for nesting juvelines and because the anatomy to sustain fire breathing is very especialized they never lose it even if borderline useless to even delitirious to use as adults
And those few that don't have it for that reason need for purposes more important that mere combat, like in one of my dragons heating up rock to make it malleable and cosumable to not depend on the climate to make it consumable for them, offensive use is only taught behavior by the civilization that dometicated them
Nest raiders when the dragons are chicks.
I've always thought cold breath attacks could be explained by spitting an endothermic reactive chemical similar to how an ammonium nitrate cold compress works.
I wonder how boned you'd be if a komodo dragon could flick its saliva into your eyes.
In each ecology depicting Rathalos, it shows that the only time he tries to use breath attacks for capturing prey is against the wroggi in mh rise. I feel that Capcom knew what they were doing with his breath attacks in that he mostly displays it during defensive circumstances such as the hunter or a rival.
Even with what few ecology are for Rathian, the only time she ever used breath attacks were for defense and to corral prey.
Rathalos only use breath attacks on much smaller prey, and Rathian using it to corall prey shows they must at least have an understanding of how fire can be used on prey much smaller than themselves. Maybe even after repeated interactions with small raptor bird wyverns or surviving hunts that they develop an understanding that fireballs are preferable to much smaller creatures than something as large as an Aptonoth for instant kills.
In addition, it may not even be solely the fire, but the small explosion it produces. In the MHrise video of Rathalos, I dont think the fire itself dispatched the wroggi, but the impact. It even shows when Rathian defended herself against Glavenus. A monster like that probably wasn't reeling from the flames, but the force of it. That alone would make some rival monsters retreat.
Way to waste your most expensive option on the least return on investment, a waste if anything. The only valid excuse I would give is Rathalos was more being territorial and snatched up a Wroggi afterward as a snack, perhaps it had a nest nearby.
@thenerdbeast7375 we could speculate that Rathalos may be aware that Wroggi require a bit more preparation because of their poisonous applications, but yeah, that wouldn't be a good excuse especially as a flying animal who would have much wider options for prey than a little wroggi.
So something like the spitfire bird would probably be more plausible if it had a longer hummingbird bill (dual use since it's good for getting nectar for there chemicals and for moving the reaction away from the face.
I hope you'll take a look at Dragons: a fantasy made real,and maybe some anime like monster musume,which I think would be an interesting series to look at in a spec Evo viewpoint.
recommending monster musume is probably the worst way one could approach the topic of biological strategies regarding child rearing and bearing
Are you trying to get UHC cancelled?!
I'd say go for it lol ignore the hyper realism obsessed weirdos and the woke weirdos
About breath attacks not being infinite one detail from httyd that i really liked was how some dragons had a limit of how much fire they could spit... it was almost never used and was a writing dead end but was a cool detail
I've been debating whether or not to give the wyverns of my world Breath attacks. The wyverns of my world are basically if Bats evolved into pterosaurs. My current ideas are that they evolved modified businesses that spew a liquid whose effects vary depending on the species. My other idea is that similar to some birds they would regurgitate their undigested meal at their attackers as a defense mechanism.
Since they are bats you could make they breath attacks concentrated sound waves or something
A fun idea would be to give them a sonic attack from an overdeveloped echolocation ability
In my world the vast mayority of my dragons don't have any fire breath abilities and the few that do have it for disgustingly humble purposes
On of them is metalized 4 winged dragon with laser like fire for the purpose off... foraging for metal to eat for a nutritional shortcut and sequester for their metal suit of armor both genders use to significy teritory quality and invididual fitness
I would go with venom/acid/chemical, as not only would it be more grounded the main distinction between a wyvern in a dragon in medival bestiaries and such was that wyverns would almost never breathe fire but are instead venomous.
i'd share my own, but i'd take too long. do you want me to tell you?
Missed opportunity to take a Colgate sponsor for this vid. Vaal Hazak sure needs a mint.
In the mockumentary Beast Legends, they created an interesting model for a "realistic" dragon: a gliding Komodo-like creature with electric serpent fangs. The electric arcs generated by the fangs, combined with the inner gases of the creature, would produce a fire breath.
Question, what if the fire is to cook after nomming the prey to death. Like the dragon comes in, chomps on the prey item, drags it home, and cooks it for its children
Acid-spitters could be predigesting their prey.
You're sure you don't have a breath weapon, cause your spouting a lot of facts.
This is a great video I bet its going to leave people breathless xD
This was a good video, If we grounded in reality I guess , Freezing ,electrical and poison type attacks Would make more sense for a carnivore then fire which is there more to inflict pain then to kill its kinda odd that there aren't alot of Fire breathing herbivores in fiction.
Because as we all know only carnivores can evolve energy expensive defensive traits and ornamental structures…because that makes sense…
Fire destroys cover and provokes flight of prey
Im not sure how conducive this topic would be to a video, but id love to see you tackle the trope of "mammals being fragile and easily out competed" ive seen this mainly in the future is wild but its cropped up in other worlds aswell.
I want to address this as somepoint yeah
@@unnaturalhistorychannelwould be there The future is Wild video ?
In my world, dragons can breath fire (by spitting a highly flammable liquid known as 'dragon oil'), but it's mostly used for defense and for cooking their food after it's caught, which has resulted in them having very poor immune systems. Most are also quite small, the largest wild species standing the height of a human, preferring to take prey smaller than itself. It is only through domestication and alchemical enhancement that produce dragons of large enough size and strength to be viable mounts.
I have to admit, this video actually helped me a lot in producing this concept. So, thank you for making it. :)
Perhaps instead of using fire on potential prey, a dragon/wyvern/whatever uses a fire breath to start a wildfire to flush prey out, similar to Australia's "firehawks", which use burning sticks to the same end.
Of all the breath attack users in popular fiction, I'm surprised a certain radioactive Kaiju wasn't mentioned. One thing I'm curious about is if you were to make your own Godzilla, how would you justify his atomic breath?
Anything that big breaks physics anyway, so trying to logically explain anything about it is futile.
@@Shaun_Jones So is Zorah Magdaros but you can make justifications that make it grounded despite not being realistic in the slightest. Even if it’s pseudo science.
@@austinames9340ignore him his brain is fried by the obsession with realism
@@austinames9340 two theories
1. The creatures of the monster hunter world are actually incredibly small.
2. The atmosphere is incredibly dense and oxygen rich due to the extensive rain forests and active volcano belts
Make it some steam cloud that carries radioactive particles. It burns stuff but also glows blue thanks to the ionization of the air.
Interesting to think of dragons in an evolutionary arms race with humans developing fire breathing and all their other weaponry just so they can survive against them.
Dragons with fire breath, but instead of being used as a weapon is used as a means for territorial and mating displays. Strong, healthy males with large territories can produce bigger, hotter flames, which not only displays their value as a mate to females, but can show to other males that this individual is one that outclasses them.
Side note but it could also be used as a form of defense by hatchling juveniles, who may not be developed enough to fly, but by that same metric will have that spare energy/material to fuel the fire breath in the event of a nest raider
One of my dragons is a one with a huge frill that almost never uses it's fire, made of their venom having a reaction with stored gases. Juveniles use it to repel potential predators, which they have no shortage of, but adults almost never use it other than the extreme cirscuntance of abusive use in cage matches against gladiators 😒
@@rac1equalsbestgame853 👏😲 That sounds like a very interesting world setting I'd love to hear more about
@@Minenutter It's a whole can of worms world but yeah, the original place of origin of the dragon is literally unknown as they were first sighted as illegal arena battle dragons and at some time some escaped and found a home in the wild
But yeah, one of my favorites, it is a dragon with ant like venom it uses to disuade predators but leave them with a painful experience instead of killing them, and got the name "Firestinger" from the venom making the victim feel like his/her insides are on fire
@@rac1equalsbestgame853 You may have already thought of this, but what if for lore your arena dragons didn't actually occur naturally, but we're selectively bred? Could add a unique dynamic where the environment they escaped to biological makes them look out of place, but the traits they happened to be given made them be a good fit, and thus have come to fullfil a previously empty niche within their environment?
@@Minenutter Some did get some selective breeding, the firestinger especifically was one to likely not as in non abusive attempts to keep them in captivity they did not breed, the only idea why being that the enviroment was insuficient in something
Some others did suffer that abuse though, becoming extremely people agressive and/or reacting to threats with fight instead of flight : /
If any of you guys want to breath fire yourselves.... try eating the Carolina Reaper. It's to die for! 😈
literally a "hot take"
The Temeraire series by Naomi Novik has dragons with organ analogous to swim bladders. Though these are used to store lighter than air gas to allow them to fly rather than facilitate breath weapons. Which aren't explained in much detail.
Also features quite plausible but rarely-seen breathe weapon on the titular dragon - notably a directed sonic attack at volumes and frequencies capable of inflicting significant damage to both organic and inorganic targets, ie shattering wood, cracking stone, and deafening and stunning living victims who are fortunate enough not to just have vital organs pulped by sheer sound pressure. Imagine a white bellbird the size of an airliner that can aim its calls with some degree of precision.
I like the dragon docudrama's version of breath attacks; the dragon eats meat like any other organism, however it can divert a portion of the raw flesh into a space that is used to produce hydrogen gas. This specialized organ aids in flight and sexual selection/intraspecific competition. By using the breath attack, flight becomes harder and the chances of mating becomes that much harder as well.
I don't know thought it originated from when you breath during winter and the mist comes out.
Awesome video as usual. Have you considered covering pikmin? The games have all had captain olimar offering his own spec-evo...speculations about the creatures he encounters and they seem like a good starting place for more extensive speculation.
I think VikasRao does a good job with dragons in his spec evo project that needs more attention.
Huzzah! A man of quality!
When fictitious animals in speculative evolution projects spit, it's considered rad as hell; but when I spit IRL, I get called a quitter.
“Short” 20 minute video
In one of my settings, dragons (western-inspired) exist but one of their defining features is how LITTLE of their breath weapon they can actually store. Which gives it a reputation of being more deadly than it actually is (varying with the type of dragon), but also that dragons may use elemental magic in place of (or in conjunction with) their native breath weapon.
Httyd has a good amount of interesting breath weapons that have origins and evolutionary uses.
I'm a surprised Godzilla wasn't mentioned in this video. I mean, his death ray has become more famous then dragonfire but yet, he's not in here?
I always liked the idea that defensive traits mostly seen in small prey animals being present on large, apex monsters implies that, at some point, there was something even larger that preyed on them.
I think you'd also like the characterization of fire-breath in William O'Connor's Dracopedia books. Only the "Great Dragons" breath fire, and only in defense.
My favorite breath attack is Agnaktor using it's clacking beak as an ignition source and then it even recoils from the new stream of fire.
I think it's time to bite the bullet and start analyzing the Monsterverse, as much as it might trip your usual POV. It is a naturally evolved world of Titans and MUTOs, after all. I think it'd be best to start with a more grounded one, like the Skullcrawler. Don't miss any info, though, because I'll know if you haven't done enough research on the Monsterverse side of things! The films AND the comics are prime material.
DAMN YOU UNNATURAL HISTORY FOR BOTH SOMETIMES PREPPING ME FOR A+P STUDYING AND OTHER TIMES DROPPING THESE GREAT VIDEOS WHEN I'M STUDYING PRE CLASSSS!!!!!!
jokes aside this is one of a thin list of channels that have low key made the first few weeks of college animal a+p doable but that's beside the point.
How about kulve taroth?
I know I'm seven days late but... I would love a Spec evo video on parasitism and how that comes to be and how that gets shown in fiction. Great video as always by the way!!!
The first dedicated speculative evolution work I ever read was Peter Dickinson’s The Flight of Dragons (1979), which broke down (in a fairly simple manner) ways in which a typical western dragon’s traits might functionally work, working on the hypothesis that dragons might have evolved from earlier large reptiles and gone extinct sometime in prehistory, but after the evolution of human ancestors, thereby being remembered through storytelling and myth. His concept was that dragon flight could potentially be explained by dragons rapidly growing an excess of bony material, which would then be dissolved by hydrochloric acid in preparation for flight, which would produce large amounts of hydrogen gas, stored in large organs that could expand to hold the gas. The dragons could expel excess hydrogen gas from their mouths to help control their flight, and could have evolved an organ at the tip of their mouths to produce sufficient electricity to ignite and weaponize the expelled hydrogen. If a dragon used this weapon too much, its excess bone and hydrogen reserves would become depleted, making it unable to continue breathing fire as well as fly. Aside from meat, dragons would eat high calcium substances like chalk to help them maintain such rapid bone growth.
I'd be very interested in a video on acid/poison blood, like with xenomorphs, lindwurms in battlebrothers, and some dragon myths.
It's completely plausible, just impractical; especially acid blood; having poison glands on the skin is just way more logical of a defense mechanism than having it contained inside the body and potenially interfering with the natural function of the blood itself.
At the same time, it can theoretically offer advantages; an animal with poison blood would be pretty much completely inedible to predators, while just having poison glands/skin means predators can learn to avoid eating specific body parts.
Question : what about phisical projectiles ?
Like biological arrows/javelins ?
The thing i heard to be most like this is the conus , altough it seems to be pretty short ranged as a projectile ...
It does seem that besides tool use killing things at a distance is hard
Nice, another spec-evo topic!
On the subject of offensive breath users, I think one potential candidate could be velvet worm(s) if their slime does fit the criteria. Slowing down/incapacitating the prey sounds like a solid reason for a breath attack like this, but ofc it has to be applied to specific creatures, like a slow ambush hunter or possibly a swift but frail predator that traps prey with it and wait for them to get tired from the struggle of getting free before moving in for the kill. And of course it has to be a proper element suitable for the job, not fire (IIRC some MH creatures are claimed to use Ice for this, tho Idk how grounded ice breating could ever be).
They totally count imo; by a stretch you could even include spiders; webs are probably the most successful offensive implementation of bodily secretions even if they don't really opeerate like a spitting attack anymore.
Ice breathing is essentially the more absurd version of fire breath, because it would need to be an endothermic reaction rather than an exothermic one, or essentially be secreting fluid that freezes upon contact with cold conditions.
By comparison heating something up is easy. The body heats up naturally as metabolism is an exothermic reaction. And the body needs to be above freezing to operate. Your body also naturally has not very energy intensive ways to lose heat like panting or simply seeking shade or water.
Endothermic reactions on the other hand that reach the level of ice also need to, if not in already cold conditions, need to go from the ambient temperature to freezing, which is not exactly easily acheivable with compounds available and able to be stored in an animal. Also it is not ideal for the mechanism that absorbs heat to be anywhere near the animal since animals make heat, even exothermic ones (and it'd debatably affect them even worse as it would make it harder for them to regulate thei own temperature). An animal can also shed heat by just waiting around in a cool environment such as shade, but warming up takes even more energy if not supported by ideal weather conditions.
I also don't believe I need to say why freezing your own body or firing out something like hypersaline solution that freezes upon contact with air/water is a horrible idea in theory and in practice, since that's what alot of creatures are made of.
Funnily enough, on the giant monster side of things, numerous anatomy books have been made over the decades to give the biological processes of how Godzilla for example supercharges the radiation in his body into a super laser. In his Monsterverse variant, one of the more "grounded" versions the uranium in Godzilla's blood is gathered into his enormous dorsal plates which store up the energy over time (this is also why they absorb vast amounts of radiation from atomic bombs and his own beam) but when using the attack Godzilla forcibly triggers a neutron flux which makes the energy in his back heat up and force itself forward into glands in his throat where it explodes outward recently compared to a small Gamma Ray Burst, and this is why currently the roar was added onto the beam as Godzilla is expelling it through exhaling.
Despite Godzilla's ecology not really being important to the plot I find it fascinating any thought at all was given to how these enormous beasts function and live when not fighting to the death .
Dragonology does a really good job of explaining the science behind fire breathing dragons. The dragons in the book have a specialized compartment in their mouths to hold rocks like flint, called a spark pouch, and glands containing liquid venom. Their venom is flammable, so they spit it like a cobra (probably, it doesn't say that in the book), and the venom ignites in their mouth. As for ice dragons, they don't have a spark pouch, but their venom has an effect similar to frostbite.
one interesting idea would be a liquid with a very high vapor pressure. If sprayed on a living being it would evaporate and quick chill their body leading to lethargy and frostbite. It would be an interesting manifestation of "cold breath" attack.
I have to ask what you think of three dragons from Httyd, the Monstrous Nightmare, the Hideous Zimpleback, and the Gronkle, I find there breath weapons unique, some more effective than others but unique in a sense. The gronkle for example eats rocks, and as a breath attack launches half-melted rock at an attacker with decent accuracy, but I could be mistaken in my memory. Anyway what are your thoughts on these three, I am really curious of your opinion.
Sorry but the part about fire being not as effective in killing carries vibes of a trend to serverly underestimate the damage,that a even relative short contact with fire, can cause. A fire leading to 3 to 4 degree burns will already be able to cause rapid shrinking of muscle fibers on the entire body, but especialy around joints & neck that incapacitates movements servierly, (aka ideal to slow prey 😉 ) & can lead to blood flow being redirected to the heart, which leads to a hearth attack. And ironically 3 degree burns can be more prone to a quick bleed out, cuz then the fire can be hot enough to cause skin cracking open everywhere, but by far not necessary so hot that it cauterises every wound.
& yeah this all happens surely faster as in a few days... If a 3 to 4 degree burn took so long to kill anything, then it must have been either very localised, on a quite unimportant spot for general body functions, or there must have been very good medical help, came very fast. (or the degree has been misjudged)
Look into velvet worms please!
There are also many insects that spit/spray interesting substances like super glue. As for toxic sprayed materials an option could be micro crystals that actively breaks the skin There are many different things that produce that type of material in venoms, toxins, and poisons.
My favorite version of fire breath is the use of a modified gallbladder and highly unstable stomach acid which if you didn’t know more unstable acids are prone to ignition correct me if I’m wrong. This would allow them effectively ignite their vomit.
Thank you for making these spec evo videos, they are so well done and get me thinking of how to make something fantasy inspired with at least some grounding in the real world’s sciences
I’ve thought of fire breath more as a tool than as a direct weapon for dragons; for example, warming themselves at wintertime with a bit of firewood, luring prey out of their habitat, or trapping prey in a (literal) ring of fire. All of this on top of it being an effective deterrent.
I guess it helps the dragon that their slayers tend to wear metal armor which conducts heat much more and also makes them a less mobile target.
While it’s true that fire isn’t efficient at killing, that doesn’t mean immolation can’t kill period. In the case of a liquid-based fire breath, it’s an even worse case scenario for the victim, as they can’t as easily bat away the flames as they would if it were a gas-based fire breath.
Would love to see a video breaking down The Future is Wild.
Also have you played MHNow or are you going to complain about how easy it is?
What about lightning breath that is something i see occaisionally and was not mentioned. Mostly cuz i was thinking about dnd's blue dragons a little bit.
Considering how dangerous electricity is in a living creature i want to consider thinking about this one.
Also how would cold breath attacks even theoretically work because cold is a lack of heat how would it be done?
An idea I once come up with to explain firebreathing dragons was them using fire less as a weapon and more of a way to scare prey hard enough to then become easier to catch, kinda like Australian Firehawks, not sure how believable that is by comparison but oh well
A spec evo short that would be cool is the use of Sound as a weapon in non-avians. I'm specifically talking about Najarala and Tigrex in Monster Hunter.
"Dear God, it burns like fire!" could easily be noted down in vernacular knowledge as "The thing spits fire."
There could also be a creature with a slime attack, much like the velvet worm, a spray of very sticky mucous to snare its prey
On Gas based breath attacks, you could also have it be a product of binary liquid reagents stored in a pair of organs connected to the "weapon sac" that then leads to the exhalation point. this of course would be very complex.
Wow, I never thought about how lacking the spitfire bird’s design is. It really doesn’t make sense for the bird to squirt fluid out of its nostrils when it could blind itself from spray going everywhere. It’s a cool idea but maybe it’d be better if the fluid…came out of the other end. However, the bird may have to be above its attacker in order for it to hit with it. And that’s potentially risky against a fast, lean predator like a falconfly who could see it coming and dodge leaving the bird vulnerable
I feel like the firey blowhog from pikmin is the best example of what a fire shooting animal should be like, with a round body that pretty much just exists to create the chemical reaction needed for fire
I really like how the Chinese dragon from Dragons: A Fantasy Made Real used its fire breath, as a tool to make a fire to cook meat.
I've had a few spec evo dragon ideas for a while, and the route I took was their fire breath being a defensive trait later being co-opted into a culinary tool (sterilizing meat after capture) or in mating displays. Some lineages, such as rocs, thunderbirds, drakes, and cockatrices have lost their fire, or had it severely reduced
For my dragons I went the route of most dragons not having the ability and the few to have it having practical non combat uses
For one I call the firestinger it is just a remnant from when they actually need it as chicks on the den, another called the spear dragons they use it to make rock more malleable for mineral comsumption for both the nutritional shorcut and body armor biomineralization
As far as cold breath, theres an ammonium salt that causes an endothermic chemical reaction when it comes in contact with water. It can be stored inside a cold blooded creature. It just needs a wetland environment to make it a reliable method for hunting or defense.
It spits the chemicals and it turns out it ends up freezing itself in the process. The salts very existence inside the body also is questionable as the body is mostly water.
@@fishyfishyfishy500akabs8thats definitely a problem, but if its possible for an animal to contain an internal vat of acid id say theres a possibilities for a specialized organ to synthesize and contain it. Expelling it from the mouth could be dangerous if its a species that produces saliva, so maybe the tubenose method? My point was it could be possible for a cold blooded creature having a cold breath weapon without sacrificing body heat to the stored fuel
@@cliffwarden5934 acid is still at standard body temperature, and is merely a chemical which corrodes and reacts with the body. Acid needs only a layer of mucus in order to stop it from destroying your entire digestive tract. It isn't logisitically very hard to contain.
A specialized organ to contain ammonium salts would somehow need to be dry while inside the body of a water-based creature. I know of no animals with such an adaptation like a pouch or gland that is essentially completely or mostly dry, as somethng that stores ammonium salts would need to be. It will also need to transport the ammonium salts to that part of the body, which creatures do *via water* in one way or another, and there's no way to get around it unless the creature was doing something like shoving it into its face.
The only way I can see this happening is if the chemicals combine in your "tube nose" method and are somehow spat at the foe despite there being no rapid expansion of gas, making this still less practical than the bombardier's spray.
Something to think about dragons breathing fire for hunting, you can probably think of it as something that starts wild fires that pick off things that couldn't escape the fire.
I'm so glad I've found this channel, I'm a new DM and I design the majority of my monsters with an established ecology of why and how they exist where they do, how they acquire food, what their biochemistry and anatomy would have to be to have the abilities they do, etc. I'm glad to have a resource to view these kinds of tropes and think about biological analogues that could be used to design and explain realistic abilities for a fantasy setting.
Bababooey
I’m surprised there’s no mention of the nasus organ of some termites
Commented this on another video, but what if dragon fire isn’t for torching things to death? What is it’s for herding the prey. Essentially, the dragon’s goal isn’t to hunt prey similar in size to it, it’s to fire-based bubble net a herd. The dragon would out fly the prey, lay a line in front of them, then flank to the side of the startled herd, fencing them in with something they’re DEEPLY afraid of. Then the presumably fire resistant dragon could land and feed.
This also works on villages to terrifying effect. And some argument can be made that it can afford an expensive attack for a reliable and very big hunt.
So what I gather from this is that small dragons having a defensive breath that's startling and painful makes a lot of sense, but large, menacing dragons should probably be dangerous in other ways either via intelligence or just having robust jaws and claws and the advantage of flight
Cant wait for cobras to evolve fire breath lol
When one brings up the idea of breath weapons, my mind doesn’t immediately go to Dragons.
*It goes to Godzilla.*
Fire? Nah.
Cold? Pfft.
Lightning? Please.
Nuclear Laser Beams?
YES!
Velvet worms have a kind of breath weapon used for hunting. They spray glue at their prey from their faces. Doesn’t that count?
They do - maybe a sequel is needed to this too
@@unnaturalhistorychannelI think some termites have a similar weapon
I'd like to share with you my own dragons, but first i must give you the context.
I've made a world in my head, and told it to a friend of mine.
The world is basically Earth, but the size of the Sun, and has altered things such as history.
The dragons are divided into 2 groups: Scientific, which are a part of the Tree of Life (Dracones, sister lineage if Serpentes); then True, which, to summarize, were created from a sentient thick liquid that listened to human tales and said "aight, imma do it", creating the dragons we see on medieval coats of arms and in fairy tales.
All that was the context.
Getting to the point, the Scientific dragons - specifically the ones that can fly - are 4 to 5 metres long and resemble lizard-like Skinks with Vampire Bat wings; so that, coupled with slightly different physics and factors (like more oxygen), dragons can fly despite being as long as a crocodile.
But because they recently joined the flight club, around the same time as bats, dragons aren't the "masters of the sky" fantasy depicts them as.
Getting the main reason i wanted to share with you, my dragons breathe fire for defense, and have limited fuel. It can be replenished by eating. And like snakes, they use a "mock attack" called the dry breath: they make a loud inhale as if to tell you they're about to breathe fire, only to stop with their mouth agape, waiting for your response (they're intelligent enough), and actually blast you if you persist long enough.
The fire is gas- based, referred to as "bio-propane" and ignited in the throat, which is protected by a fireproof mucus that coats the esophagus and oral cavity. The scales are very fire-resistant, and the bones and flesh are tough enough to withstand the ignition.
(The reason the gas is ignited in the throat, and why it's gas to begin with, is because i wanted to put the "breath" in fire breath)
I repeat: this is for the Scientific dragons that can fly.
The exception is the Common Wyvern, which utilizes an aerosol fire (like igniting a spray product) from a bile acid referred to as "breath bile" or "flammabile".
Regardless of the type of fuel, dragons are the first fire-breathing animal, so they're not as good at it as you'd expect them to be: they have limited fuel, and the blast lasts around 2 seconds - 3 at best.
and as i said before, they breathe fire for defense. larger predators such as Gryphons can and will prey on them, and a good amount of dinosaurs survived the KT event (which happened in a very different way) as well as other prehistoric creatures.
in other words, a Lindworm can fall prey to a Gryphon or a Baryonyx or even a Diatryma.
But not all Scientific dragons breathe fire:
The *Lindworm* spits a foul-smelling, milk-like liquid that causes irritation. it spits it as a projectile.
the English subspecies sprays the liquid as a pressurized mist like the few species of Spitting Cobra you mentioned.
other species spit poison like the Spitting Cobra, but in a similar fashion to Reign of Fire's dragon.
The *Snow Wyvern* spits a liquid referred to as "bio-nitrogen", since it has similar properties to liquid nitrogen.
Magic exists in my world (comparable to Minecraft's and Demon's Souls'magic), but the Scientific dragons are anything but magical.
and to be perfectly honest with myself, i most likely got carried away in several aspects - if you want to see what i've done for yourself (there's been A LOT of retcons, recently).
I have to know, Unnatural History Channel, what do you think?
It’s funny, cause there’s a tv show called Jane and The Dragon where the dragon’s fire breath is gas based, and the gas comes from all the plants it eats.
Do you think the Rock Drake for Ark Survival Evolved has potential for a video? I know the game is a bit ass, but I really love it's design, and it's rivalry with the Alien-esque Reapers of the map it's found in.
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Fire is incredibly useful for dragons:
1. A defensive weapon: Dragons are aerial predators, naturally they would be extremely vulnerable when grounded as any serious damage to the (relatively fragile) wingstructure is very likely going to lead to death from starvation and their high size and body mass wold make it very hard to escape from threats quickly; being able to defend themselves with a projectile attack would be very helpful; a grounded dragon would be extremely vulnerable to attaks from even much smaller animals; fire would be an effective deterrent to attacks for long enough for the dragon to take off, and possibly even finish it's meal.
2. A hunting tool: small fires in th right place can cause big fires; big fires can flush prey animals out of cover; Dragons being such big animals would struggle to catch any anial by surprise; prey would likey dash for the nearst treecover as soon as a dragon approaches; dragons could light forsts on fire to flush prey out and thn swoop down on prey as they try to escape the flames.
3. updrafts: even the most reasonably scaled dragons are big and relatively heavy; powered flight is very energetically taxing for big animals; but they could cause a fire and use the powerful updrafts it creates to more effectively gain altitude by means of soaring flight; this means that the energy expended in causing the fire would be "regained" in flight by allowing the dragon to soar up to much higher altitudes.
Having said all this, such a "fire breath" would likely spray a corrrosive fluid (perhaps in a manner not dissimilar to a spitting cobra) that'd cause heat/fire where it lands by reacting with organic materials or some pyrophoric fsubstance that combusts a short time after being exposed to air.
Thanks a lot UHC for keeping us sane during this hard time for us monster hunters. But oh well, i definitely won’t go and drink so I don’t have to think about it (I definitely will do that) anyway thanks a lot!
I’m surprised you didn’t mention Vikas Rao’s work.
In any case, I’m a fan of his dragons and their evolution, as well as the evolution of their fire. Fire spitting in his dragons allows them “make due with a much shorter digestive system than other predators in their size class. Burning prey prior to feeding not only kills off parasites and removes fur, feathers, and scales, it also makes the meat easier to digest by breaking down tough collagen and tenderizing bone and sinew.” Add on top of that they’re used for signs of health and mating display, as well as fighting rivals.
However, his “dragon's fat reserves [are] the fuel ...leaving it vulnerable to starvation in lean times. Because of this, flame jets are typically used to incapacitate prey or in the most serious of fights. When bringing down fairly easy prey or in most combat situations, dragons will use their teeth and talons rather than their built-in flamethrowers.”
The Flight of Dragons had a good one for fire. They utilise Hydrogen for bouancy when flying (which is why most of them look rounded and beach ball like), they aquire it by digesting limestone (however they have to use gemstones in a crop to properly break it down). The ignition comes from a bit on the roof of their mouth called a Thor's Thimble which has electrical properties. So when they need to drop down, they exhale the hydrogen to reduce their bouancy and it burns as they go down.
However my doubt comes from how the hydrogen in their stomach doesn't turn into Carbon Dioxide or methane making it less useful for flight.
One thing fire is good for that doesn't get mentioned often is cooking food, and eating cooked food is a valid survival strategy among animals that chase wildfires and (of course) hominids. Im not an expert by any means, but folk talking about human evolution usually say cooked food is more nutritious and helped us become more biologically complex. If nothing else, it requires less energy to digest i believe? If true, i could see fire evolving for defense at first, maybe from spitting oily vomit with a mechanism like cobra spitting venom, but only being used to cook hunted food. Like, they hunt using teeth and claws like you'd expect, perhaps by dive bombing prey, perhaps even hunting griffins and pegasi specifically.
Though with humans, fire might have contributed to us having larger brains and being more neurologically complex, i could just as easily see the boost in nutrition leading to larger creatures with more costly features than you'd expect, but despite (or at the cost of) no gains in intelligence, though with this one highly specific survival strategy. I imagine it could produce a feedback loop where the nutrition won from more effective fire breath leads to even more effective fire breath down the line.
At any rate, this idea perfectly maps onto the trope of a dragon capturing a princess without the use of fire (maybe even capturing her alive to be cooked later?) but using fire to defend itself against the knight seeking to rescue or avenge her, bc that's what the types of attacks are used for most often.
(This is gonna be a long one):
You know, in the movie "The Gods of Egypt", they show giant cobra monsters that breathe fire in a manner similar to how spitting cobras spray their venom. It makes me wonder if a creature could have specialized venom that ignites like gasoline and could be sprayed at threats and potential prey. While it would have more mass, definitely hit harder, and be aimed better than just a pure flame thrower, I am unsure if it could be used effectively considering the costs to produce it. One breath type that has always puzzled me, however, is that of lightning/electricity like what Narwa and King Ghidora use, because the thing is, you can't just aim lighting like any normal projectile. Even if you could accumulate the necessary charge to let a bolt loose, lightning will seek out the quickest path to ground, and whether or not that path is also your target is very unpredictable. When electric fish use it to attack, they are usually VERY close to thier prey, or they make direct contact to administer it, better ensuring their electricity hits their intended target.
Sure, fire-breathing may not be a very effective way to bring down prey. But grilling something _can_ increase its nutritional value. I bring you: Breath Weapon Gourmet theory!
...Please ignore that this would probably also take a whole lot of fire over quite a long time to do, and thus runs into the same issue