Jurassic Park's success, Jurassic World's failure, and can accurate dinosaurs make it in Hollywood?
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- Опубликовано: 22 авг 2024
- It's common for popular science and news articles to say how 'JuRaSsIc PaRk GoT iT wRoNg', but considering the science at the time this is really quite unfair. And we'll find out just why in this video, as well as why Jurassic World did indeed get it very wrong, and if today's purely accurate dinosaurs could deliver the same Hollywood thrills.
“Mal-adjusted school shooter dinosaur” is such a hilariously accurate description of the Indominus rex.
Would that make the Indoraptor a travel sized Mal-Adjusted School Shooter Dinosaur?
Didn't it become the only Indom on it's own terms?..
@Connor Tripp The indoraptor was a killing machine designed to target specific people when it's master demanded it, so I'd say that a dinosaur jihadist would be more accurate.
@@AnAmericanMusician Nah the Indoraptor is just a Deathclaw, a lil devil in a dinosaur's skin.
The idea that the "real" dinosaurs are just normal animals and that InGen deliberately created a monster to make nature more exciting for the tourists honestly could have been a really interesting critique of the way dinosaurs and animals more broadly are used in entertainment. Instead the film tried to have it's cake and eat it so we get the escaped dinosaurs being typical movie monsters with the indominus rex being just the same but bigger.
According to some other people in this comment section, that was closer to the original plan.
Apparently, there was going to be a theme of animal abuse in the entertainment and tourism industry.
The Indominous Rex was originally going to be a man-eater because it was a traumatized mutant who became desperate and impossible to control. Hell, the hunched shape of its spine was apparently supposed to be the result of repetitive stress and injury, due to spending all its life in too-small cages.
@@theoneandonlymichaelmccormick Yeah, I kinda wished they kept that Indominus rex concept so Indominus rex wouldn't be simply a stereotypical monster dinosaur, but a scared hybrid animal that was horribly abused and wishing for sympathy. That would have made a lot more sense than what we got in the movie.
@@Dylan-Hootonlike Koba from Planet of the apes trilogy.
@@user-vc8pu5vk6z 👍
oof that’s actually a really strong premise. producers need to be taped to a wall if they try to enter any planning meetings.
"Malice does not exist in the animal kingdom."
Like... I get your point. But humans are in the animal kingdom, and I hardly think we're the only species with the capacity to hold a grudge or simply be an asshole.
Hm, actually a pretty valid point.
Crows are very vindictive and will sabotage you for life if you harm one of their own.
Tigers are famous for holding grudges against hunters.
@@YaBoiDREX Not to mention cape buffalos who can remember your face if you harm them or their herd,This usually ends up in an ambush where the poacher doesn't notice another cape buffalo approaching them with vengeance on its mind.
@@YouStillHide I think there's a difference between having malice vs simply being vengeful or vindictive. Retaliation is a process many animals seek out, but almost always comes from a past slight. Malice implies bearing ill will simply for the sake of it, something that is really only ever found in humans (and arguably chimpanzees). Most animals in the wild lack the higher sentience needed for cruelty, but retribution is common.
The Baryonyx design of Fallen Kingdom still baffles me to this day. It's such a cool looking dino based on the fossils, but the movie turned him into the most generic dinosaur you can imagine. I don't get how somebody can look at the real life creature and go "nah this sucks, let's just make a big crocodile instead"
FK sucks
Also, the heck? Walking cocodrilians existed, they could've use that
One detail not mentioned in the video that I've come to absolutely adore with JP is how all the dialogue about dinosaurs being closer to birds, or just birds being dinosaurs really makes the very ending shot all the more poetic. As Dr. Grant flies away from a place of miracles that brought what he studied back from extinction, never to be seen again he looks out the window to see pelicans flying by. It comes across as a moment of realization and reflection, both for Grant and the audience that dinosaurs never left us and are still living alongside us in more wonderous ways than we could've imagined.
Here by recommendation from Scanova the Carnotaurus and I cannot tell ya how much I adored this video. Looking forward to more of your works! Keep up the fantastic job!
Yup, it's just a wonderful bow to tie it all off with. I almost feel it likely inspired the final shots of BBC's Walking with Dinosaurs too where they more overtly make the same point. And thank you so much!
More like everything is at its place/normal is good, now that they left the island.
I personally didn't quite understand the dismay of Jurassic World until I saw Godzilla: King of the Monsters. In a vacuum, the films exist as decent action I suppose, but it was only really because I didn't understand, or forgot, what a good monster film actually was. Now that such films exist in the public eye, what makes Jurassic World appealing now? Dinosaurs are fundamentally appealing because, while they can be monstrous, they're grounded in reality. They actually existed. They were real. Hence why in Jurassic World I can't understand the appeal of it outside of very casual viewers. Jurassic World in my opinion was very well-made in the context of an audience that hasn't been exposed to the Jurassic franchise or main-stream dinosaurs in so-so long. Now that such a scenario is behind us, the film suffers from not being that original and honestly a bit boring in rewatches. Meanwhile Fallen Kingdom just sort of gave up after trying to shove too much into a single movie. What really sucks is knowing what was originally planned that was replaced with generic "hurr hurr remember JP" nonsense and mindless monster attacks (Those being themes of animal abuse, to the point where it would've been explained that the I-raptor's unique posture wasn't by design, but instead by the years of abuse it endured by man in a confined cage).
Very interesting, I had no idea the original idea was so much more sombre. What a disappointment we wound up receiving the film we did.
And ditto on being unable to understand the JW appeal outside of casual films. It's a shame now everyone treats the entirety of the franchise as a similarly brainless blockbuster when the first film was so thoughtful.
I agree, I enjoyed Jurassic World when it came out I don’t think it was that bad & was pretty good not great like the first but good in its own way could’ve been better I suppose. Fallen kingdom well that could’ve been made A lot better or less worse
God that sounds amazingly good. Hey if JP isnt doing anything with it that sounds like an interesting premise to use elsewhere.
@@damian5528 I understand peoples complaints about both but I like both movies still a little because I just love haow they keep adding more dinosaurs to the roster
Jurassic world was a meta-critique on blockbusters
Even The Land Before Time knew that "longnecks" were quite the match for an attacking "sharptooth."
Tfw a kids show knew how to do dinosaurs more accurately than a big budget, blockbuster sequel to a beloved 90's movie.
@@fahdrightone7428 To be fair, Land Before Time was a big budget, lovingly made animated movie. Extensive research was done to represent the dinos in a way that felt alive.
True. Even though Littlefoot's mother does fall to the Sharptooth, she puts up quite a bit of resistance against him and, honestly, could have defeated him.
33:31 At the museum I work at I learned that not all raptors may have used their claws the same way, Velociraptor's claws may have been used in the "Raptor prey restraint" but Utahraptor may have done the slashing attack because of how much flatter its claws were. Some of what I'm saying is based on what real paleontologists have told me.
I can see that for Utahraptor especially. I've seen some describe it as about as large and robust as a dromeosaur can get before it stops being a dromeosaur, so it'd make sense it behaved quite a bit differently to deinonychus and the other smaller ones.
I've heard rumors of a new dromeosaur species from the Bissekty formation that's two or three times larger than Utahraptor, though the only material found were parts of finger/hand bones. If the size estimates are accurate, this Bissekty giant likely filled the role of a top order carnivore similar to tyrannosaurs
I personally think the reason they didn't incorporate feathers into more animals is something worse than laziness: Nostalgia bait. The creators know that people grew up with the featherless raptors. Its the same reason Rexy is still in these films despite being well near the end of her life, if not past it (and if someone wants to say she was raised in captivity, half if not more of her life was spent in the wild). There's also the unfortunate reality, and you pointed this out, that there's a very irritating vocal group of people who don't like feathered dinosaurs, and unfortunately people like that float especially in online discourse, and the creators see that kind of stuff.
All that being said, I agree with your over all point that the films do a less than stellar job of exploiting their unique ability to engage in science communication. I dream of the day when we see a big budget move with scientifically accurate dinosaurs that behave like animals. Even in the original, the raptors especially act like blood thirsty maniacs that have to eat six humans a day plus a cow. I think where Jurassic park always shined for me was the small moments (or not so small) like the sedated trike with Grant and Ellie expressing their awe, or the Brachi feeding. I want dinosaurs to feel like animals.
For sure, the whole of JW is just blatant nostalgia baiting and it really disappointed me how many just lapped it up. I feel FK is less guilty of it but not really a better film anyway. And yeah, Mark Witton has written a lot of really good stuff on the bizarre attitudes of feather resistance in a lot of journalism.
If you're looking for media with accurate dinosaurs that isn't some obscure video game that won't ever make it out of development, keep an eye on the upcoming Prehistoric Planet on Apple TV
@@Spooqi i just saw the teasers for that the other day, fingers crossed it looks great
Rexy would be 33 in Dominion according to the official cannon, however there is no way in hell she was only 4 during the events of JP. At her size she would have to have been at least 15-20, which would put her somewhere around 45-50 during Dominion.
It is definitely nostalgia bait but it fails hard. I still find nostalgia blindness kinda weird when I watch Jurassic Park pretty often. It's just a great film based off a better book
>Dr. Grant in the first movie : “they’re not monsters lex they’re just animals”
>Dr. Grant at the JP3 film opening : “Now what John Hammond and InGen did at Jurassic Park is create genetically engineered, theme-park monsters - nothing more and nothing less”ruclips.net/video/w8_qsEt-Q4o/видео.html
>Dr. Grant *the moment* they arrive on Sorna : “now everyone if you look out the left window you’ll see a whole herd of brachiosaurs and the alpha male grazing there. Oh and mrs Kirby look down there you can see a group of triceratops” ruclips.net/video/OZxMV_Rnn5E/видео.html
^Whenever people try to use grants lecture speech as a defense for lazy designs later in the franchise it makes me laugh. Especially since the movie itself basically nullifies it.
It also shows as another example of JP3's inconsistent writing too. And yeah, it's just a bad argument really.
I think grant lied to the public about genetically engineered theme park monster, deep inside he still believes its still animal with natural behavior with emotions and intellegence. Its kinda dr. Grant character arc in jp3
@@lorddhiyul4125 yeah that was my takeaway. Deep down, or maybe not so deep down Grant was still fascinated by them, and all it took to bring out that childish wonderment was to see them again. And actually, credit JP3 in some small way, the Raptors never seem malicious. Once they get their eggs back they peace out. Although the spino kind of ruins that theme since it seems to hunt this group of bite sized appetizers.
@@lorddhiyul4125 ”My God, I had forgotten.”
@@lorddhiyul4125 Good point, I always interpreted it as his excuse on not wanting to go to the island and potentially re-live what he experienced years back in JP (at least, until he finds out he's in need of funds again).
I feel like they should have introduced scientifically accurate dinosaurs in jurassic world by calling them generation 2 without using the "duh the dinos arent pure" excuse. As you said the only dinosaurs that the public knows about is the t-rex from the first movie, they could have called it generation 1 rex, while introducing a scientifically accurate rex as generation 2 without retconing the designs (even tho jurassic world movies retcon literally everything). They even fucked up in the dominion preview, they said that it would be in the cretaceous while being 100% accurate, but they just reuse models, use broken wrists, use dinosaurs from different time periods (like come on they could have introduced anzu but they chose oviraptor portrayed as an egg thief) and one of the worst things, introducing a giganotosaurus that somehow time traveled in the future, swam over a sea and somehow killed a t-rex. The gigas design is also a mess and it somehow knocks over the t-rex even tho the giga is smaller than rex in every way cause they obviously had to introduce another villain dinosaur
Yup. They had a blank canvas to do something new with and decided to smear faeces over it.
@@unnaturalhistorychannel What's especially frustrating is that for every misplaced animal seen in the preview, there's an equivalent that was actually contemporary with Quetzalcoatlus, Ankylosaurus and T. rex.
Dreadnoughtus? Alamosaurus.
Pteranodon? There's currently an undescribed pteranodontid from Hell Creek, but if you wanted something with a name, then Tethydraco from Morocco is the next best thing.
Nasutoceratops? Triceratops (or go with Torosaurus to shake things up).
Oviraptor? Anzu.
Moros? Either the dromaeosaur Acheroraptor or the alvarezsaur Trierarchuncus would work.
Iguanodon? Edmontosaurus.
Giganotosaurus? A rival T. rex is more than sufficient.
Yeah, I'm very disappointed in Jurassic World Dominion. They said that they'll introduce accurate dinosaurs, but nope. They lied by just reusing models and kept the pronated wrists (something no real dinosaurs possessed). Even Dr Wu said that Ingen dinosaurs are not 100% accurate, yet neither are the film's non-avian dinosaurs of the official Cretaceous Prologue short film.
That's just what happend in the original novel
Don't forget that they had grasslands in the cretaceous
As an aspiring Sci-Fi writer this video showed me how to NOT utilize prehistoric animals in my book.
Thank you UHC for your amazing videos which help me understand the smaller but vital parts of nature
No problem, glad it helps!
So, is ones literature going to "enlighten" its reader on how pigeons wabble around, and other "deep" topics of bland, meaningless birdstamping?
This video really opened my eyes to how much missed potential Jurassic World had. I personally love all the Jurassic Films but World is my least favorite of them all. I actually really enjoyed Fallen Kingdom and didn't feel the need to "Turn my brain off" while watching it. My favorite out of the five is The Lost World, and I even love the third film a lot.
Also, again, thanks for taking a look at my hybrids. ;)
Yeah if nothing else, I think World's biggest crime is the missed potential first and foremost. As irate as it makes me, it just disappoints me even more.
And no problem!
Your hybrids are amazing
@@lukeskywalkerjediknight2.013 Ah thankth.
I do recommend Camp Cretaceous, especially as there's a hybrid that is literally what the Indominous and Indoraptor weren't, and achieved where they had failed. It even was breathing like a pug, which emphasized its *wrongness* beautifully, that's all I gotta say about that show without giving away too much.
I just looked up the hybrid you were talking about, and JESUS you weren’t kidding! Now THAT’S how you do the horrors of genetic engineering! It makes Indominus and Indoraptor look like actual dinosaurs, while it just always feels...off, like there’s a sense of wrongness permeating it. It’s awesomely horrific!
I probably will watch at some point soon (ish), everyone does seem to love it.
They also have aggressive herbivores in the form of stegosaurus, sinoceratops, and ouranosaurus of all dinosaurs.
It’s pretty doo
It honestly the best Jurassic world media we have ever gotten. Except for season 4, they gave up there.
The Indominus is the poster child for Hollywood monsters in the past decade or so. THey all look the same. Every one of them has effectively the same elements in them. Gone are the days of unique monsters
The problem isn’t even that it’s too simple, really, as it only takes, like, one-or-two iconic elements to make minimalist design work wonders.
A good example would be the British sci-fi horror comedy, Attack the Block. What with its alien invaders draped in light-absorbing fur, and glow-in-the-dark teeth.
I agree with everything you said.
I think the biggest problem of JW films are the fear of taking risks. They are using the same recipes from Marvel or others blockbusters films. Great visual spectacles, but with zero or very little story. In Jurassic World they could use animal mistreatment insted the BS of animals in the army, telling a new story. And this mistreatment leave to the scape of the Indominus and the fall of the park. The narrative of a animal figuring out your place in the food chain is very good, they could use this to make the Indominus a real animal, an animal wich suffers, fells pain and dont understand your place in the world. An animal that fails to kill the ankylosaurus and the apatosaurus and in the process of trying to kill this creatures gets hurts. A predator create in captive, mistreated, imagined only as an attraction. And this leaves to hes fate. Be kill by an old T.Rex, who was just defending his territory, or his young.
(In the novel there was a baby T.Rex, why not use this? Rexy is old, very old. The baby could represent a new generation of fans, for example.)
They never treated the Indominus or any dinossaur like a real animal, and this is the biggest flaw. They don't even seem to have bones, and if they do, they are made of adamantium! And the carnivores always seem to be starving! Like the pterosaurs or the carnotauro in Fallen Kingdom. They treated animals if they were good or bad, no instincts, behaviors, just a villan and a hero.
In the end, Dr. Wu was right. Nothing in jurassic world is natural... Or real. Or Alive.
it's just another franchise
destroyed by people who only think about money and fear the risks.
Btw i love your video!
Keep up your amazing work!
Thank you! And great points made there too. Almost all maneaters are crippled animals and the point of weakness causing the danger over excessive strength could have been a really nice narrative. And also yeah, both JW and FK just feel very safe and managed, utterly blank risk free-films.
I always heard that people hate FK and Dominion because they take themselves too seriously and try to do too much. Now I hear they're not taking enough risks and not doing enough.
Yeah, your idea would have made those "modern" Jurassic movies (I'm looking at you, Jurassic World Fallen Kingdom) way better, also having the "nostalgia" dinosaurs and pterosaurs as gen 1 animals, showing that these aren't pure animals, and have gen 2 animals being scientifically accurate. I imagine a scene with accurate feathered gen 2 Gallimimus (with supinated "clapping" hand positions) traveling with inaccurate scaly gen 1 Gallimimus (with pronated "bunny-handed" hand positions) in mixed-species flocks, and another scene with feathered supinate-wristed raptors on display while the scaly pronate-wristed ones being off-exhibit or not public.
Agree,but even some of MCU movies are probably better written than JW movies. Plus it's not like MCU movies are sequels to something as profound as og JP.
Holy shit, this was awesome. I also think that having the rest of the dinosaurs(other than the original T.rex) more accurate would make the hybrid more monstrous and unnatural if it was more retro. Also would be a decent metaphor for how quickly nostalgia spoils once you look at it through a critical eye.
Another really good point there!
Imagine Roberta meeting with an accurate T-Rex.
Oh like say cause the Rex is an older individual it could in canon retain the familiar design while the others could be revised for accuracy?
Damn that is genius. Kinda reminds me of the Tigon at my local zoo, its like an abnormality and a monument to past mistakes of human breeders so to speak, but its nonetheless given a place to spend its life in health and peace.
Though of course for Rexy there is a severe level of Irony that dinosaurs are full on extinct.
Maybe the indoraptor exhibiting weirdly human behaviors like smirking could’ve been really unnatural and well done if the rest of the dinosaurs weren’t anthropomorphized as well
Like the guills?
Or did the author of this blatantly dismiss them after the Primeval raptors.
Sure looking for facts, hard...)
This might be the most important video for Jurassic Park/World fans ever
That’s some serious praise - thank you!
Really, REALLY big deep dive into the conundrum of current JP media as a whole! I more or less agree with just about everything you had to say/argue about when it comes to how the original & new trilogy impacts the understanding of science, relationship with animals, etc. I will say tho that even for me born in year 00, I actually had much of my dinosaur content from many different books (both childish and technical/academic) alongside most documentaries having a much bigger impact than me as instead of JP. And ngl, the one JP movie I watched the most was JP3 ironically, and you know what, I still think it’s somewhat enjoyable despite how trash of a movie it really is, worse so as a film of this franchise. And YESSIR, someone finally showing just how creative and dynamically entertaining you can get with the current evolving view of prehistoric life, not just dinosaurs either. It’s rather sad that much of Hollywood still believes Universal “owns dinosaurs”, when not a damn soul of our species will ever truly own any animal, living or extinct.
I think the only thing you should do if you come back to this type of topic later on is exploring what type of stories you can tell with scientifically-credible extinct organisms in a JP like setting or rather in a new setting not yet shown on film or much of cinematic media. I know of that one blogpost by Mark Witton discussing such question a few years ago and some discord servers also actively asking this, but I think that could be a nice sequel or next related video to explore about. Basically what I’m saying is, keep going fam we loving every hit you’ve done thus far!
Yeah, I will also say the same in that BBC's Walking with Dinosaurs was every bit as influential on me as JP, probably more in fact, although I'm unsure if I'd say the same globally to people who weren't dino-kids. And I also loved JP3 as a kid...rewatching it as an adult was a bit painful though.
I also think that's quite disappointing too. With Universal's hold on the franchise it feels like no one else wants to make dinosaur films for fear of JW owning the market. So we're stuck with this lacklustre nonsense for now.
I've also thought of such things before too. Jakub Różalski's incredible image of the last mermaid being hunted down by fisherman in the North Sea made me think of using realistic interpretations of various mythological beasts as allegories for real world animals and things like human wildlife conflict and such.
I'm also a big fan of Mark Witton's stuff as I'm sure you can tell, attended one of his talks a while ago too.
Loved the video, great points all round. Also, interesting to note that Crichton's original book was far more sci-fi horror than the adaptation, and more modern, unsettling dinosaur designs would have made such a great opportunity to explore that further.
Yeah, that was a point that got cut for time (and arguably relevance) but I'd love to see something closer to his original novel or really just any well-made dinosaur horror media. I've always felt they may have toyed with that idea in production as some shots and parts of the soundtrack are reminiscent of the horror genre. And thank you!
The virgin Jurassic World trilogy: Borrows real life animal names and pays hypocritical, pretentious lip service to science.
The chad Warhammer Fantasy: All dinosaurs and pterosaurs are made up because Games Workshop knew that using real dinosaurs/pterosaurs/etc. would just get in the way as science marches on.
the evil shoebill images used to prove that feathered dinosaurs are scary is odd because in all angles except for those angles they look like muppets
I don't think they look especially threatening either, it's more just the frequent memes I've seen from people who do painting them as evil.
This man just beat the life outa Jurassic World on every conceivable level.
36:57 Them eating a human is actually a little on the more unlikely side (at least, eating one whole), Their stomachs combined with their light weight probably wouldn't be able to support a whole person as a meal. Even in the pics with the woman for scale you can see she would take up almost their entire body if eaten.
Much azdachic discussion was cut for time, but ultimately you're right. A small human would still be quite a feast for one. With that said, marabous will dismember larger prey (records and photos exist of them doing this to flamingos they've hunted) and so human may still be on the menu if not swallowed whole. For pure conjecture, vultures will often risk a very slow takeoff when engorged after a meal, and with no predators for it to worry about with potential resource gluts of saurpodlets it's possible Hatzegopteryx at least may have been a bigger eater than other pterosaurs with a larger stomach and torso (IIRC we only know it from head and vertebrae right now).
I agree with what you said about JW calling its cloned creatures actual dinosaur names, as if they are the actual animal, when they are not. To quote myself from an online discussion I had with an online user a day ago:
"Alright. Jurassic World is sci-fi, I shouldn't take it seriously.
I just generally dislike certain things like this, since I always worry that it might misinform people who don't know better.
Like the one time in Jurassic World the game (I think) where they stated something like "Pteranodon means 'toothless wing' but it's a misnomer because it has teeth"
JW was referring to *their* cloned Pteranodon which had teeth, but the statement could mislead people into thinking that the actual animal does have teeth."
The reason why I had that online discussion was because JW:Dominion spoilers were showing footage, supposedly from a flashback from prehistoric times, that
Tyrannosaurus and Giganotosaurus met. In other words, it is implying that the two lived together, when in actuality they did not! 🤦♂️
The video I had a discussion in (in a reply section of a comment): m.ruclips.net/video/BMDmW_DEMsk/видео.html
The new Dominion footage is...interesting to say the least. Some of it's good, a lot of it is flat out baffling. I originally thought it could be a step in the right direction but the more I learn the more I feel like retracting that statement.
@@unnaturalhistorychannel btw, the T rex in San Diego in TLW Jurassic Park was intentionally done by Spielberg since he knew that TLW was the last Jurassic movie that he would direct, so decided to go all out action.
Though I agree that it was unnecessary, a deviation from the novel, I also like it because:
1. It parallels the 1925 silent film, The Lost World, (and also 1933 King Kong) in which a creature is taken from its home to human civilisation where it wreaks havoc due to it being confused in a new world, and
2. To those who doubted Dr. Malcolm, as seen in the start of the movie (in which his reputation was damaged, his university revoked his tenure), they now have proof of what he experienced, albeit in a deadly encounter.
As someone who's favorite movie is the first Jurassic Park, agrees with basically every point you've made, but still really loves Jurassic World, the best I can describe it is... well, unconditional. Unlike you, I do genuinely see Jurassic World as a love letter to the first, not in the same way that I love it, but still in it's own understanding. I think that, if the Dinosaurs were accurate and they went out of their way to show some more of the wonder of the park, I wouldn't have a reason to complain. As someone who appreciates the work put into the paleontological accuracy of the first movie, the gray blobs they call Dinosaurs in the sequel are a massive let down that frustrate me to no end, but the story itself? The criticism of it's own existence, of capitalism and consumer culture, the way the pacing and action are shot and presented, it all comes together to make a movie that, despite the eye tearing faults, comes out the end a still quite enjoyable experience. Two separate scenarios I have shown the JP series in it's entirety to friends, and both times they saw JW as their favorite of the bunch, even above the original. Sure there's a lot I hate about the thing, but if it's beating out a classic like JP in the eyes of modern teenagers, then it's doing something right and I have to respect that.
That's quite fascinating to hear. I also have a few friends who unironically like JW, though I've never been able to get them to pinpoint why exactly. I guess JW deserves credit in that respect that it's claimed its niche, although I can't say what that niche is or what it says about its audience.
"-that thing where everyone had dinner in the iguanadon. No."
Cracked up laughing, looking forward to the rest of the video!!
Very well written... looking forward to a part two of this video with JW Dominion 🤔 going to go look for it now
What I hate about the dinosaur community itself was the battle against awesomebro community and even the feathernazi community in terms of their own opinions with dinosaur designs way back.
Yeah the dinosaur community is surprisingly toxic if you look deep enough into it.
@Real Geology with Chris! I personally disagree with your point about awesombro dino designs. I mean by that logic SpongeBob SquarePants shouldn't be considered a sea sponge since he's shaped like a kitchen sponge.
"I didn't wanna make up a new dinosaur and tell kids it's real..." I honestly think that would be a really cool idea, in a way. The geneticists in this franchise are cloning dinosaurs using DNA from mosquitoes preserved in amber. This means that they have no real way of controlling what animals they are resurrecting. Therefore, it seems logical that, at some point, they should resurrect an extinct creature as yet unknown to science. If I were one of the creature designers for a JP/JW movie, I would relish the opportunity to indulge in speculative evolution. One could take great inspiration from Dougal Dixon's The New Dinosaurs (1988), which speculates on how dinosaurs and other Mesozoic taxa might have evolved if the KT extinction event had not occurred. I think it would have been awesome if Drs. Grant and Sattler were to be presented with, say, a large flightless Cretaceous pterosaur, or a previously unknown Jurassic theropod that burrowed underground like a mole. It would be a great way of highlighting just how much of the prehistoric world remains to be discovered, and how much never will be.
Well, sort of. Since that's a fictional species, one could take some creative liberties with its design. The anatomical and behavioral diversity among the various species in the genus Panthera demonstrates how such closely related animals can differ to a surprising extent. That would be another interesting point to explore in a movie about resurrected dinosaurs: how separate species within the same genus might look (and act) very different to the extent that they pretty much only share the same body plan. Laypeople nearly always identify dinosaurs and other prehistoric animals by their genera rather than their species, so all of us inevitably conflate the former with the latter. (The sole exception is Tyrannosaurus rex). It would be cool to see a tour guide explaining to perplexed guests that, say, only Velociraptor mongoliensis are sociable. Velociraptor osmolskae have to be kept apart because they're solitary and territorial. Not to mention that the physiological differences between the two species might make it difficult to believe that they're both Velociraptor. Regarding the topic of my original post: It would be a bit of a stretch to make one species of Troodon a parasitic breeder. If there were evidence that the genus Troodon used that strategy to incubate its offspring (or no compelling evidence either way) then I suppose you could justify the Troodon in The Game. However, I think it would be safer just to create an entirely new genus of theropod that has the venom and the reproductive method of "Troodon pectinodon."
Speculative dinosaurs were considered for Jurassic Park 4. Including the Malusaurus, a theropod found in China, and Excavaraptors, burrowing raptors that lunge from their tunnels to attack prey.
@@Bagelgeuse Huh. Pretty frustrating.
This was an amazing video, you covered a lot of points I've been saying for some time and plan to continue sharing in the future, hopefully more publicly. I feel that the current renaissance we are still going through is making dinosaurs far more interesting than even in the 90s, and the points you brought up on herbivores, smaller carnivores, and how the modern take of feathered dromeosaurs actually makes them scarier also show the potential that isn't being realized with dinosaurs, and that's purely as a means of some sort of action or horror related element, I think they can be used for far more than just the bare minimum for Hollywood blockbusters.
It was a shame that World really REALLY missed the mark, and while from a story-telling perspective I understand why they did it, it's clear they were playing it safe and were afraid a rapid departure would give them another Jurassic Park 3. On that note, while I do love the research behind the real Tyrannosaurus and think it's a fascinating animal, I am extremely tired of seeing it in media, especially since it's never used as anything more than a giant human-chasing predator with none of the animal's unique characteristics actually being shown off. I hope Dominion takes risks now that Ingen/Masrani Co. aren't the ones creating new dinosaurs, but we'll have to wait and see.
And a final aside, I do love the series, and I actually enjoy Fallen Kingdom quite a bit but more so because of the story it tells within the JP universe, the new dinosaur additions range from bad to meh, at least we got more under-represented species in this one which was nice.
Keep up the amazing work, this channel seriously needs more attention.
Agreed, the amounts of discoveries being made right now are astonishing. As much as I'd love an actually good Jurassic film again, I'd love a remake of something like Walking with Dinosaurs with all this new information even more.
And yeah, the original novels were thrillers that bordered on horror and I feel dinosaurs really have tonnes of untapped potential in both horror cinema and games.
And yeah we'll have to cross our fingers for Dominion and hope it's more Big Rock than World.
And thank you very much too!
@@unnaturalhistorychannel Very well said, and not even just horror. There's so much that can be said in relation to change (evolution, climate change, extinction), what it means to be a dinosaur, and even paleontology itself. It's sad seeing the same stories and themes being used all the time with dinosaurs, and I hope going forward the JW at least inspire a new wave of creativity in films and gaming.
Yeah dude how dumb it was to build up the I-rex for an audience as a freaking Magnamalaw and then show pale T-rex with non-baby hands.
Feathers being uncool most likely came from terrible depictions in dinosaur documentaries and paleoart. If people saw the prehistoric planet version of a raptor vs a cheap, poorly-made documentary, they most likely wouldn't think feathers are terrible looking.
Me after watching this video: “Allosaurus has never seen such bullsh*t before”
Colin Trevorrow didn't want kids to think his fictitious dinosaurs were real?
When I taught kids English I used to ask them what their favorite dinosaurs were. They all said Indominus lmao.
Physical pain upon hearing that
To add salt to injury, not only do they not show accurate dinosaurs, they pretend to put lesser known dinosaurs in movies, like how rugops is in jurassic world but it's actually a part of the indominus (for some reason, i feel like the directors just decided to throw in random dinosaurs to appeal people but just ended up screwing up, like why add rugops for indominus, its not large in any way so why add it ?) They also introduced allosaurus in fallen kingdom, the fifth most popular theropod dinosaur and the lion of the jurassic as a skinny shrink wrapped generic theropod that tries to look like the allo for 6 seconds, at least they fixed it in battle at big rock, its the first theropod in the movies to have correct hand positions and its not shrink-wrapped (although its a bit too big, it actually fits in the estimates of saurophaganax)
31:00 On a similar note, I believe that megaraptorans would make a great substitute for dromaeosaurs in a Jurassic move. They'd fit the role of man-sized theropod and with a name like "Megaraptor" they'd be very marketable. Their classification is also kinda unclear so they may not necessarily need feathers to be accurate (at least not as much plumage as dromaeosaurs) and would require little to no tampering to appeal to the anti-feather nay-sayers.
Plus, their uncertain taxonomic affinities would give them an air of mystery that would make them scary.
Not gonna lie, when I saw the I-Rex's reveal, it was pretty much underwhelming. Like, DUDE. They could've went batsh*t insane with the design. Say what you will, but the Nostalgia Critic was right about it!
BAZOOKA BOOBS AND LIONS FOR HANDS!!!
If it makes you feel any better about defending Doug Walker, he’s also wrong in his wholesale acceptance of T-Rex flanderization.
As a response to the harsh hits on the petting zoo, the ONE and only argument I have seen for it is that the baby dinosaurs 'do time' in the petting zoo in order to normalize those animals to human interaction on a larger scale so that the trams and gyrospheres don't spook the adults or ya know, trigger a fight response and you have a triceratops trying to stab a big tour jeep
I mean, people who keep reptiles regularly interact with the animals for that exact reason. Especially when it comes to program-animals that I can imagine the baby-dinosaurs kind of falls under.
@@treadingwater86 I mean, having them interact with young kids though seems like a recipe for disaster.
@@fishyfishyfishy500akabs8 That’s also true, but it is MUCH easier to manage the reaction of a OG sized baby dinosaur vs the Elephant sized adults who you can’t do anything to stop beyond a 10 gauge.
That's a nice idea, Romeo! :)
Man I have been living in denial so much on the dinosaur depictions of World...
Its kinda smart to say humans are fooling themselves with what they wanna see, but for a behind the scenes reason it really is quite lazy and possibly cowardly just in case they do make mistakes.
But I still can't really hate it outright cause the creatures get so much more screen time and character in the new movies than just vicious monster wanting to eat or kill humans, more according to the lore established.
Especially with the raptors. I can actually feel for Blue like a living character.
My 2c:
JW1 is about how the general audience is bored of the same old dinosaur and the park owners want to create a hybrid dino that is designed to wow the crowd. Ironically, this is what the movie is doing (they think movie-goers are tired of seeing real dinos and want to see hybrid dinos).
In the movie, the park failed and people got eaten. In the real world, the franchise is failing due to these dinosaur-looking monsters in our dinosaur movie.
So much irony, the whole franchise should be renamed Irony Man.
I don't think this franchise is failing at all. In fact, it got about 170% of Jurassic Park's box office gains. Subsequent films have also been successful. Take a look at Camp Cretaceous, it has hybrids and it still sells.
Loved watching this video as it was able to explain what I didn't like about JW films. You did it perfectly!
A bit off-topic, I want to mention on the depiction of Pteranodon by Primeval compared to the Jurassic movies.
Whether you know this or not (in other words, possible SPOILERS),
in Primeval, the episode featuring the Pteranodon made it seem like it was a "man-eating flier". The death of a golfer caused by an unseen flying creature shown in the intro of episode implied such, and later it seemingly chases Connor, one of the main characters, as if to eat him. Viewers who pay close attention however will notice that the Pteranodon was chasing a Coelurosauravus (a small flying lizard basically) that was alongside Connor, not the human itself. In other words, it wanted the lizard, *not* the human.
The pterosaur was eventually sedated with a tranquilizer by another main character, Stephen. Later on, Stephen then disgustingly tastes the dung of the Pteranodon, finding no trace of human blood or flesh. The Pteranodon did *not* kill the golfer. It turns out it was a group of Anurognathus that did.
As I explained, Primeval did a good job of depicting Pteranodon as not a man-eater, while teasing the viewers that it probably was! 🤭
The CGI model of the pterosaur was also good.
As for JP3, it was understandable (as you mentioned) that it attacked the human characters, but JW it just lazily did the "pterosaur attacking humans" thing.
What's worse is that in the Canadian spin-off of Primeval - Primeval New World - they depicted Pteranodon as a man-eater, even gruesomely describing the corpse of the human victim it ate. In other words, 🤮
So yeah, man-eating pterosaurs, a thing I hate not just in the Jurassic movies but also pop culture.
Also can you make a video on the creatures in Primeval sometime? Thanks. 👍
Thank you! And I'm very familiar with Primeval, absolutely loved it, or at least the first 2 seasons. The pterosaur episode was great. The piranha-anurognathus were fun and the pteranodon was quite decent if azdarchid sized.
Can confirm I'm planning a primeval episode for the future, with the future predator as the main talking point too.
I had issues with JW all the way back when the raptor scene first started circulating the web. They were moving like generic cg monsters and I was shocked people received it positively at the time.
Okay even tho I enjoyed the JW films tho I am fully awear of the problems those films have,especially FK that one is a mess and a half
,but YOU SIR basically explained exactly what Jurassic Park did and why it was good,and its huge importance in paleomedia,the dinosaur renaissance and the general publics opinion on dinosaurus, and where Jurassic World failed at doing.
And I have to say even tho I like the design of the Indominus(and the other two hybrids) I do agree they made her full of plot holes and didnt really use the BlackFish angle that well. I really like how your take has her as this man made creature that is designed to be the strongest and most powerful there is but without us she would die. And while I personally wouldnt mind if existing species from the previous 3 films remained the same,new species like Apatosaurus,Baryonix,Allosaurus where more up to date to show that the franchise is willing to continue following the legacy of JP,and as some others have pointed out it would make the Indominus with her white scales and red eyes contrast sharply with the other animals.
Another intresting idea they could have had is make each of the designs of the raptor squad have difrent amounts of feathers. You could keep Blue the same,Have Delta be the most feathered and accurate since she is suposed to have more avian DNA, and Charile and Echo have amounts of feathers that bridges the fully feathered gap and the pure scales.
Tho I will say even if JW and FK havent had the best dinosaur designs(FK especially due to the fact they highered a Monster designer,not a paleoartist who had to deisgn the animals within the span of a few weeks,and Horner bearly gave any feedback to the man to help him in the designs) the franchise does seem to be heading twords the right direction. With the designs of Ouranosaurus and Monolophosaurus been fearly accurate,and even Colin himself having talked with people about accuracy.For example the paleo advisor they got to try to fix the design of the Allosaur in Battle At Big Rock was surprised that Colin knew what primaries and secondaries are.
Plus we also just got this which aparently takes place in the Creaceous period. twitter.com/rob_keyes/status/1402733249894535170 in case you hadnt seen it flood Twitter yet.
So it seems there might indeed be some light for Dominion to be better.
Cheers for all the info, I just read the full break down of the Dominion footage. Whilst it sounded interesting there was also a lot that really surprised me too like the Giganotosaurus killing a rex and dinosaur apparently being everywhere. Either way I'm more optimistic for it than I ever was for FK.
And thanks as ever too!
No problem. But yeah I have to say the news kinda got me hyped cause they showed that they can do accurate animals,but the fact they set the opening in the past kinda takes some steps back with how it implies that this is how the past was,and while according to the species they named their all Cretaceous ones,theres also ones that are incredibly lost both in terms of time and location. Like Iguanodon been in the same spot as tyranosaurs.
Speaking of which I'm even more surprised they gave it protofeathers,and if we also assume it's the rex in that other image giving it feathering that looks similar to the hair on elephants is something that could very well have been a thing they had. Less exited about the fact it fights a Giga which I was really hoping to tango with a herbivore instead, and how it's also implied that the dead Rex is the same one from the original film in her first life, and how they are basically pulling a Godzilla and Ghidorah style of ainchent rivalry between the Rex and Giga that will be shown with their clones. Which also implies they remember things from their past lives.
Oh and another thing we got shown what Deinonychus looks like and sadly they are featherless and have a skull resembling a Utahraptor the rest of the anatomy seems to be a better version of the raptors in the franchise,and they sport pastel colours with unique markings as well. Tho I believe they are based on Lost World and JP3 female seen the colouration they have.
16:11 goated moive I love how the "fake dinosaur" acts more like a animal then all the "real dinosaurs" in jurassic world
I agree with a lot of your points, but overall the thing that most FRUSTRATES me about JW, both as a film and a trilogy, is that it wasted insteresting ideas and concepts. Apart from the hybrid being both menace and victim, Fallen Kingdom presents a debate of wheter or not the dinosaurs deserve to live, something i think it have above TLW as a concept. Sadly, the trilogy wasted it's chances to fix the problems with the original sequels, and what it could have been the equivalent to the Planet of the Apes reboot trilogy to franchise, ended being the equivalent to the Sequel trilogy. Such a shame.
It’s interesting this reaction to the world films versus some who were more specifically invested in maintaining continuity. I for one don’t think making Jurassic park paleo accurate is something of great concern.
I get why people more invested in the science would be, but as someone more interested in film itself as a medium, the creatures being accurate has never been a major focus. That being said they could be made accurate, and that would be cool, but that will likely never be the studios concern above making money, and the vast majority of the paying audience is more interested in seeing something they recognize versus something more accurate
An addendum to this, if they were to retcon the designs and make them more accurate, that would be fine I think. If they explain it by saying the genome has gradually gotten more complete and created closer animals to what they were. But I would also change the velociraptor name to maybe Utah raptor, or make something up, that way it can maintain the size and somewhat similar appearance.
I also just think that jw would have roughly the same impact if it had accurate dinosaurs as it did with inaccurate. The general public really doesn’t care what dinosaurs were like, and those that do care aren’t getting that information from jp. Even the first film had the dilophosaurus and its massive raptors.
Idk I’ve heard a few people complain about the accuracy but I really don’t think it would change much. I was a kid watching the first jp about a decade after it came out, and a decade after most of its info was shown to be false in one way or another. I loved jp, it made me love dinosaurs, and because of that, I learned how and why it was wrong.
My point is, I think people that care will learn regardless. The general public does not care, and showing it something more accurate won’t do much one way or the other. Because of this, I don’t think the films have much reason to be accurate aside from appeasing a niche group of fans that would’ve watched the film regardless.
Additional addendum in case you ever read this- I’m not defending jw. I agree with most everything you said here regarding dumb decisions. My point was more against accuracy being used as criticism of the series as a whole.
I actually quite like the idea of working in themes of unethical treatment and questionable reasoning echoing things like blackfish. That’s dark and brings it closer in tone to crichtons novels IMO.
Speaking of the novels I think incorporating more from them would’ve been smart. Naming the “Malcolm effect” would’ve been good, where in a situation with so many unknown variables, once something starts to go wrong, it will avalanche beyond control.
Or the idea that even in the “controlled” setting of the park, dinosaurs were already out and breeding without anyone knowing it. In the book this led to a realization that there was around double the amount of animals they expected.
I also love the revelation in the book where Malcolm points out how aggressive the raptors seem to be. He points out that lions and tigers are not natural man eaters but have to learn the behavior and how to hunt man. This leading to him pointing out that these raptors had to have learned man was easy prey.
Incorporating that realization, maybe even straight to Owens face would’ve been amazing. Coloring even the trained raptors as dangerous animals and not heroes. As they’re behavior when the kid falls into the cage is not that far removed from other raptors in the series. Meaning if the logic Malcolm used is still true in JW, those raptors too know man can be prey.
@@wanderer9994
About the raptor part. There's a good reason why Owen always remained outside the cage. He knew that the raptors weren't docile or tame, if they got a chance to kill him, they would've.
Not sure why they forgot about this in FK though, making Owen and Blue buddy-buddies, but Blue seems to become more agressive in Dominion, trying to protect her baby. Which is a natural animal behaivor as mothers tend to become more agressive when threatened.
But agreed with all the other points.
And I just got the solution to that. Pull an uncanny valley. Play the "Birds are Dinosaur" so straight it becomes an extreme. Have a dromiosaur mimic what the park keeper say on a daily basis. Have some dinosaur fool the heros that there are other creatures on the island.
I hate how they try to be like "HEHE MAN TAMES RAPTOR" in jurassic world with grady and blue. It's nothing like the old raptors, cold, calculated killers who were ruthless hunters. But nope, instead we got doggosaurus.
Also very sad so many people seem to like it too.
@@unnaturalhistorychannel I know, right. Just look at youtubers like the Gaming Beaver or BestInSlot. They seem completely okay with this complete injustice to the jurassic franchise raptors, as well as all the fans. Yes, it is important to humanize the dinosaurs, but they honestly overdo it and stay unfaithful to the jurassic franchise's roots. Raptors in jurassic went from scary ass, coordinated predators that walk a line between chimpanzee intelligence and human intelligence, to cute doggosaurus. I mean, what's next, is Pratt gonna ride blue or something like a horse? Is he gonna go wild west and saddle up on blue?
Highly disagree with you there, buddy. Now I do agree with that idea for Fallen Kingdom and Dominion but the first Jurassic World still had the raptors be dangerous and unpredictable animals. Not as much as the original trilogy but it was still there, in my eyes.
@Trey Rex yes, not the point i was going for however. While in the new trilogy they are portrayed as dangerous and unpredictable, they arent given the ferocity or the scariness of the original trilogy. The raptors were something you used to poop your pants when you see, now theyre just mal-tempered doggosauruses. Not to mention its owen who always comes in and is like "hey, im your friend," and they stop. That takes away their terrifying aspect
@@sierrakeith8025 Oh, well to that then I do agree I do miss the more horror-oriented raptors who were terrifying. My bad then.
The funny thing is one of the most realistic depiction of baryonyx is the one that they show on the old JW official web, and when the sequel comes out somehow they changed the design to the abomination that shown in this vid
Something I notice is how literally everyone who wants to show how realistic the dinosaurs in JP don’t really or even mention the raptors. For obvious reasons of course they are the xenomorphs of the series, literally blood thirsty from the amount of mindless and widespread killing they do (sure predators irl will overkill for survival in case of tough times and the raptors were in most likely stressful conditions) but the sheer absurdity of these raptors is something you would see from players in the isle given how reckless and villainous they are made out to be, from Muldom to the T.rex raptor fight, they are literally just beasts with only a mind for death and nothing else, the most realistic they made them was in JP 3 but they also added other while less outlandish yet still more unrealistic elements in the raptors and had the spino’s aggression issues.
I think it is pretty clear that the design choices were not made to be in accordance with up-to-date science but to fit a distinct shape for Marketing reasons. Just watch the Video about the "Updated" Designs off Allosaurus: The palaeontologist who was working on Jurassic world continously gave notes on how to make it completely up-to-date and yet they ignored it because they wanted a distinctive visual cue for each species.
People against accurate representation argue that it would not make sense In-Universe as they should continously look the same, which is nonsense as the movie characters themselves say that they keep tinkering with the genetics to turn them into more unique creatures to get more visitors. Or that the movie itself states that they are mere monster attractions and were never science accurate, which is also just nonsense as both in the first book and the first movie all participants tried to use the most up-to-date data at that moment. It would be just accurate to the scientifically-based backbone of the book and the first movie to project up-to-date dinosaurs.
There are more problems such as the disneyfication of the franchise: One dimensional characters, bad guys which come from a Military background, incongruent character-writing, animals being turned to Marketing opportunities instead of trying to exhibit natural behaviour and blatant copies of other Disney movies (for example the whole human touching the nostrils of the animal to have some kind of mutual understanding nonsense which is directly taken from "How to train your dragon").
It would’ve been really cool to see the prologue with time and location accurate dinosaurs. There is an accurate replacement for everything we saw. As for the giga, that could’ve been solved in two ways: show how rexy died (I’d say a depiction of the extinction event would’ve been far cooler), and then follow it up with her excavation and her cloning process, growing up on Sorna with the giga and having a natural rivalry in THIS lifetime on the island so that when they encounter each other again in 2022, they actually know each other.
Or...scrap the giga. Show rexy getting killed by another accurate rex 66mya. Now, Biosyn has made a new, 100% accurate rex (like they claim they can do) and we get to see just how different, yet terrifying, this thing is. It’s bulky as opposed to rexy, it’s got stronger jaws, it’s slower, it rumbles instead of roars, and best of all: it follows the annoying trend the franchise follows of “What’s bigger and badder than a rex?”
Well, how about another rex? So we get to see rexy vs an accurate rex: science fiction vs science, the corporate vs the natural, the present vs the past.
Sure the Dilophosaurus being so innaccurate makes it stand out, there's a few things that make it more acceptable when compared to the Jurassic World Designs.
A) the design is still aesthetically pleasing and identifiable as a Dilophosaurus
B) The frill is speculative but the clear use of modern reptiles as a reference and the idea that dinosaurs may have had soft tissue features like wattles, crests, and in this case, Frills.
C: The venom is the biggest stretch but at the time Dilophosaurus was believed to have had a very weak bite, so the venom is a speculative answer top this. Also the strange features could just be attributed to being a particularly hodgepodge of a clone.
I feel like a way to fix the Indom just a bit without changing the design is giving the indom its sibling and show that they have a strong bond and then have that indom die to the Ankylosaurus during the ball attack scene which the second indom finds and have it go into a rage where it then starts to attack everything and then don’t show it killing an Ankylosaurus
Honestly I have more than a few problems with how Colin Trevorrow took the Jurassic franchise and all the cop-outs, stereotypes (both human and animal) and all around lazy writing and creature design. It’s why I’m glad Prehistoric Planet happened to come out of Jurassic World Dominion, as Prehistoric Planet likely took the wind out of JWD’s sails, and tossed away the rose-tinted glasses most of the public wore regarding the Jurassic Franchise apart from the first trilogy (which, despite JP3 being not so great, is quite a bit better than the JW movies as I look back on it), even among Jurassic fans
Spoilers for dominion
Giganotosaurus in North America 65 million years ago: Never before I have been so offended by something I 100% agree with
Yeah it was an 'interesting' choice to say the least...
It's worth noting that the skin impressions we have form t rex, and its close relatives are relatively very small (smaller than the palm of a hand) for their overall body size. While also isolated to parts of the body that likely wouldn't have feathers, and given how they fossilized would not have preserved them if they were present.
While a heavy coat of feathers is highly unlikely, a light coat similar to elephants (and Prehistoric Planet) could possibly function as a "heat sink" which helps regulate temperature. While being kept clean through dust, water, sun, mud bathing or frequent replacement.
Perfectly said
Wow, this is pretty well put. I'm definitely going to bring up these points in arguments and discussions.
The excuse "they are genetically modified anyway, so it doesnt matter" is way too common
I do understand your reason for not liking the movie, especially in fallen kingdom where the characters are mostly lucky in numerous situations that would be deemed impossible to escape and treating dinosaurs as monsters instead of animals with natural and common behavior.
However, I do like the concept of what dr. wu was talking about how "they fill the dna gaps of whats missing with the dinosaurs they create", its gives their brand of the dinosaurs to what I dub as "Jurassic World Imprefection". Yes, the dinosaurs are imprefect but to me it gives the dinosaurs their identity. I mean, we already have small frilled dilophosaurs with venom, giant velociraptors, T-rexes that can catch up to a jeep but has eyesight based on movement, and the fact that all the dinosaurs base DNA were frogs in the original.
My theory is they took existing animals DNA and filled it to the dinosaurs with similar traits with said animal. InGen's Baryonyx to me personally shows a great example of the "Jurassic World imperfection" that I like. Yes it looks like a Baryonyx, but notice the mouth, teeth and the osteroderms on its back, you can tell they put in crocodile DNA in the Baryonyx.
I sometimes look at the dinosaur designs in jurassic world and guess what existing animal is in their genes.
Oh yeah Unnatural History, I recommend Camp Creataceous, its a netflix series that takes between the 2 Jurassic World films. I honestly think it's 10x better than the 2 films combined
Still not an excuse to not have accurate dinosaurs, they can throw as many excuses as they can, if the creatures don't look like the dinosaurs they're supposed to be, don't name them after them, call the park "monster world" or something, anything except jurassic, plus why would the audiences be bored of regular dinos ? Theres even a line in the movie saying "they're dinosaurs, wow enough" about indominus, the movie says that kids are looking at dinosaurs like elephants, the last time i checked i didnt hear people wanting a hybrid elephant. Theres also the excuse of feathers being hard to animate but if a japanese kids show can show dinosaurs with feathers and pterosaurs with pycnofibers, then theres no excuse for animating feathers being hard
11:14
@@lillipton8838
I dunno man, many of the JW/JP Dinosaurs look pretty recognizable to me.
The T.rex looks like a T.rex
The Raptors look like Raptors
The Spinosaurus looks like Spinosaurus
The Carnotaurus looks like Carnotaurus
The Brachiosaurus looks like Brachiosaurus
The TLW Stegosaurus looks like Stegosaurus
The Triceratops looks like Triceratops
The Parasaurolophus looks like Parasaurolophus
The Stigymoloch looks like Stigymoloch
The Allosaurus looks like Allosaurus
The Nasutoceratops looks like Nasutoceratops
I could name more.
@@lillipton8838 Barring your first point because Jurassic Park also doesn't have accurate dinosaurs either, I agree.
@@KhanhNguyen-mh5ec this comment is 2 years old, why are you replying
god i love how your jurrasic world idea sounds so much better
I really hope that there will be a highly accurate (not purely accurate dinosaur movie, since that's impossible to make, but highly accurate nonetheless) dinosaur movie one day, complete with fully-feathered raptors, eagle-eyed rexes (with light amount of feathering), dinosaurs not pronating their wrists, all extinct animals looking healthy with no shrink-wrapping issues, and their behavior being realistic and animalistic (rather than being stereotypical bloodthirsty monsters as in most media).
There's a bunch of really great animal horror movies with otherwise cute, friendly, and/or furry/feathery animals, as in the case with the bear from the movie Cocaine Bear (although its behavior is still bloodthirsty, unfortunately for my taste), and the amazing Prehistoric Planet documentary has the most accurate dinosaurs and other Mesozoic animals put to screen (in both their behavior and their life appearances), so it should not be an issue to make a great dinosaur movie with paleo-accurate designs and, possibly, behaviors.
I just want at least ONE paleo-accurate dinosaur in a critically and commercially successful movie. 😊
As someone who likes Jurassic World, this is probably the best video criticizing JW, especially its creature design.
I appreciate the compliment!
The thought of a bald anjanath scares me. Not because its threatning but because of how ugly it would be
Same they would look more like naked chicken than the beast they are
Quetzalcoatlus would be abselutely terrifying if put into a jurrasik park like context, imagine a scene where people try to navigate a swampy foggy area with tall grass that dosnt allow much view, occausionally something will move and slowly building up that there is something else there, eventually a giant beak will clsmp down on someone in the group and that person imidiatly be snatched of screen-> transition to tense chase scene. Other animals that would be great some nocternal dromeosaurs that terrorize people in the middle of the night, carnotaurus or other medium sized terosaurs. Presumed to be highly territorial and agressive herbivores like ankylosaurus, stegosaurus or therizinosaurus (there could be a nice scene with it having lengthy oustrich like feathers wich would be mistaken for vegitation, i know there is no direkt evidence for feathers in therizinosaurus but there is in related species, so its fairly reasonable to assume that it would at least be partually covered in feathers maybe with a few exposed parts that are rushed with blood so that the quite big body could cool of).
Well, you got Quetzalcoatlus and Therizinosaurus in Dominion, with a Carnotaurus and aggressive Ankylosauruses in Camp Cretaceous
I'm very happy to see you talk about the issue of people thinking that feathers are lame and inherently non-threatening. I don't know why people, like the one who drew that "T-rex" artwork thought that feathers = birds = small birds like sparrows and not something like a cassowary or even sized-up hawk or owl.
Og JP trilogy: Smart intelligent Animals
JW Trilogy: Straight up Monsters
Personally, I would have preferred seeing the Ultimasaurus instead of the Indominusrex, really hitting home that excess mentality they were going for.
Jurassic world: Nothing in Jurassic World is natural, we have always filled gaps in the genome with the DNA of other animals. And if the genetic code was pure, many of them would look quite different.
Me: huh! that's funny, because how come the origin show very inaccurate and reused models and show some of these creatures are from the wrong time zone?
Jurassic world: well, you see um, Universal studio there on to us!!!!
The funny thing to me about this quote is that in the first jurassic park everything (except for dilo) was accurate as they could get and they were real animals, but somehow they are monsters now and that the dinos in jp1 were also fake somehow
@@lillipton8838
None of the dinosaurs in the original were accurate either.
Just compare the JP Rex skull with the skull of a real Rex. There are differences.
@@WhyTho525 i know that there are differences but at least you can recognize what animal its supposed to be unlike jurassic world designs which literally makes up their own skulls and skeletons and call them dinosaurs
@@lillipton8838
I dunno, the JW Carnotaurus, Stygimoloch, Nasutoceratops, Allosaurus still look like Carnotaurus, Stygimoloch, Nasutoceratops and Allosaurus to me.
@@WhyTho525 the ceratosaurus doesnt look like cerotosaurus, the juvenile allosaurus (and the adult to some extent), baryonyx, pyroraptor, giga, sinoceratops and even the atrociraptors. Also, the stigymoloch is just a juvenile pachy so it doesn't count
While I can agree with most of your sentiments, I personally found Fallen Kingdom to be a lot worse than Jurassic World. Jurassic World was dumb, but at least it was an entertaining kind of dumb. Fallen Kingdom, I just found dull and miserable to get through.
Also, I would love to see an ecology video where you examine Isla Sorna in TLW and JP3!
I really liked fallen kingdom because it reminded me of what Jurassic Park started out as. Profitable animals, were all I think Hammond and some of the others supporters saw Jurassic Park as. I was once again able to see the clear line between those who worked with, respected, and loved the dinosaurs, and those who were there for the money. It also reminded me of how we treat wild and exotic animals in captivity, and painted it as a bad thing. Which I'm hoping will help some people realize that what we are doing with exotic animals is often shady and harmful towards the animals themselves, disguised as our love and admiration for them.
I honestly think aesthetically, the indoraptor fills the role of an unnatural animal far better than the Indominus rex. Especially the scene of it in the dark and having it creep around. A shame it’s role was so bad in Fallen Kingdom.
Fuck, he had to bring up the emu war.
I like the new ones but yeh. But i see no reasons why current depictions cant find their way into popular media. Kids like dinosaurs, they dont care what they look like.
Living for the diss that compares Jurassic World to Dinosaur and points out that Dinosaur is better, as they should
"In translation an absolute unit" God damit that me chuckle
And anyone who thinks birds can't be scary has never being swooped by a magpie
What made Spinosaurus work in JP3 is that the fact it's wrong is canon. Spinosaur was never on InGen's list and it's likely that they didn't know that this was the species they had. In the books it's explained that from genetic sequences that were new to the team, they basically just cloned and hatched them to see what it was, they didn't know going it at all. The fact the Spinosaur is basically a movie monster and nothing like what it was in life makes sense because they likely didn't know it was a Spinosaur and were trying to prep it as something else like a Baryonyx or Suchomimus which were on the list. Everything wrong with the dinosaurs both in book and film are explained because they had to fill the genetic code points that were missing. This is the greatest strength of the book over the film because the film makes it an established thing that T-rex can't see what doesn't move, while the book explains that Grant did not know this or even believe this going in, and only later realized this because when facing the Rex, it did not attack him while he was frozen in fear. He knew they used DNA from other sources (not just frogs but frogs are important in this instance) so he realized that the Rex had it's genetics messed with. It knew he was there but due to how amphibian predatory response in their DNA works, because Grant did not run or even move, the Rex could not pin point his location. She KNEW he was there but could not properly locate him because her DNA was wrong and so made her less efficient as a predator. All predators do have a strong response to movement as fleeing is a typical prey move, but this was hyped up to 11 and the book explained this while the film did not. This again can explain why the Spinosaur was so wrong and yet work in the lore of the original Jurassic Park. They were wrong and knew it but wanted to get as close to what was known. Jurassic World does not have this excuse.
Just binged all of your videos, and I adore the scientific takes on all these various media, ESPECIALLY since I feel a lot of animals in movies don’t get the love they deserve.
Would you perhaps be interested in looking at the Vastosaurus Rex from The King Kong movie from 2005? I hear a lot of good thing from the large lad, especially since he was designed by Weta Workshop too. He’s a really cool fictional dinosaur that really seems to hit all the accurate notes.
Thank you! As I'll mention in tonight's video (assuming I get it uploaded on time) I'll 100% be doing the whole cast of Peter Jackson's Skull Island in the future, so the V. Rex is a assured.
Animals in the wild, particularly the most intelligent ones, absolutely can exhibit emotions and personalities, including malicious ones. Anyone who has had any experience with birds knows that birds are extremely complicated creatures with their own personalities, likes, and dislikes, loves, and even hatreds, i think its completely plausible that the genetic freak they made could have a malicious and cruel personality, it is not a mindless animal and it is capable of having a 'moral' character as seen through our point of view, although such concepts would be alien to it.
This was great, you really put into words exactly how I feel about the first film, and where World got it wrong. Jurassic Park is about a group of scientists who feel like experts in their field, getting to see something incredible and share their passion and knowledge about it. Jurassic World feels like a boring action movie with boring-action-movie characters who shoot first, ask questions later.
How to make a better Jurassic world with Zerocraft Hellas:
1. Get money for the park.
2.Make sure the enclosures are large enough for the extinct animals you are planning to get.
3.Clone prehistoric plants for the creatures you are planning to make.
4.Clone the animals you want (pro tip start with ice age creatures since it's more likely to be cloned).
5. Make sure you have the best security .
6. Make sure you have the best caretakers for the animals.
7. Have back up plans incase of disaster.
8. Give the creatures love and joy ❤️
Man time flies by quickly
Basically BBC's prehistoric park
@@alligatoreamericano3520 That shows need a reboot.
In the Case of Anjanath the Feathers actually make it less bland and fill a space where Not much Else would be, resulting in Anjanath actually looking more impressive.
So why would people Claim that Feathers make Things less scary If this Just proves that it could also Just flat Out improve Things both Logically and Visually
Fun note about the indominus that a lot of people tend to skip over. It has multiple herbivores included in its genetic make up. Carnivores kill to eat. Herbivores kill out of fear, out of rage, out of sexual frustration, out of revenge, and some times just for the fun of it. Therizinosaurus is a herbivore. It's responsible for the length of the claws on the indominus. Carnivores tend to be violent out of necessity, herbivores are capable of being violent for the fun of it. Its in the herbivores in the genetic make up of the I.Rex that we find the capacity for sociopathic and even psychopathic behavior.
I was always subscribed to the theory that the dilophosaurus in Jurassic Park was a juvenile due to its highly curious nature, and that Nedry's death in the books came from being lifted by the head, carried and slashed open by a much larger animal. Despite the films taking some liberties away from what had been established in the books, the idea of the larger adult dilophosaurus existing deeper into the enclosure, perhaps wanting to stay out of the rain gave me hope that we would one day see a fully grown dilophosaurus in the later films. No such luck yet, but it's not completely off the table...
Also, while the frill around it neck don't really make sense, I always loved the aesthetic of it. The concept of juveniles using it as a means to scare and surprise potential predators with a flash of bright and vibrant colours (the colour yellow usually acts as a visual indicator that the animal is dangerous/poisonous) or to even simply appear larger, appeals to me greatly. Perhaps as the dilophosaurus reaches maturity and then full adulthood, the frill does not grow with the animal and becomes useless flaps of skin.
You also touched on something at the end of the video I really want to see. Give us a medium sized theropod that serves as a films antagonist. I can make a pretty strong case for Allosaurus being way more visually terrifying than a T rex despite being smaller, or raptor despite being (possibly) slower, how horrifying would it be to turn around and an animal the size of a school bus with a 79° jaw gape is coming at you, with powerful arms tipped in massive claws? I'd take my chances against a raptor or a t rex honestly lol. I know allosaurus is probably the third most cliche theropod, but Its been my favorite since 3rd grade and it deserves some love. Especially after that atrocious fallen kingdom design.
Agreed, and really I'd be happy with any non-tyrannosaur at this point. It can also be argued their smaller size makes it harder to hide from too. And ditto on having Allosaurus as the favourite dinosaur!
Did you see Battle at Big Rock? An Allosaurus is actually the main antagonist in that one.
@@WhyTho525yes he did not to be rude
I agree with what you said about JP being at the time scientifically accurate (with some exceptions like the dilophosaurus), it rubs me the wrong way when people mock it for the inaccuracies that were made present after the release of the movie.
I also agree with the take on realistic dinosaurs used in media, I love feathered dinos and all of that, I would love to see them even outisde of documentaries.
That said, I think you were too harsh in JW. Everybody is entitled to their opinion, but you're forgetting the fact that JW is a sequel to JP, meaning it needs to pack all the previous lore in. It was stated that Ingen and Wu weren't able to replicate feathers and that their dinos were far from accurate, so it would make sense that the same people would continue making dinos the same way, as a matter of fact, with Dominion we actually start to see more accurate designs as now other companies are trying to recreate them and not just Ingen or Wu.
I also don't think they tried to show the functioning park as a positive thing, nor that the indominus was evil because they used "evil" dinos, but I actually saw the park for a disaster waiting to happen and the indominus being evil because it was just messed up in the sense that they created a literal Frankenstein monster.
I agree with part of the criticism however, I too don't like the overreliance on past dinos and humanizing them, but Camp Cretaceus did a better job on that front.
All in all cool video though 💪
All i want to say is that for now something that we could call ,,accurate dinos" don't exist. We only speculate using data based upon fragmentary skeletons and skin impressions. Of course some speculations are more possible than others but we aren't 100% sure. Technology, the amount of effort, time and money are our disadvantages. Sometimes i feel like these stupid disputes about accuracy in designs of dinos in pop culture are waste of time. Instead i think paleontologists, paleoartists and paleoenthusiasts should focuse on finding ways to improve data colection and calculiation. This way we could really prove or disprove ours theories about anathomy and behaviour of these amazing creatures. Thats my opinion. Have a good time ;)
It's true,the way they mostly illustrate dinosaurs is like shrink wrapping them i have a feeling they are way off in the way they really looked. But I can only imagine, something reptilian and bird like as well but something different man would I love to see what they looked like especially Utah raptor and t rex and stego, to so many others,.
OMG I'm now picturing an alternate story for Jurassic World that follows a Free Willy type storyline as a raptor trainer owen encounters an indoraptor like Blue and needs to fight to give her freedom.
ooohhhhhh the feels!
This is definitively the best jurassic park video I've ever seen. I can't stand the JW films
Thank you! And agreed...
Usually I'm not the type of person to really think much about films. Hell I don't even really watch films much at all these days.
I remember watching JW with my parents and finding it fine enough. Nothing special but nothing offensive. I can get all the points made in this vid and overall agree I just didn't care much to look at it that way when first watching it.
Fallen Kingdom however, both me and my dad both were just rolling our eyes at it so often. Probably the scene that really cemented just how bad it was was the Loony Toons I-Raptor smirking as it pretended to be asleep. It was all-in-all so goofy and nonsense, which I would've been fine with if it at least embraced that tone. But no, they try to mix in the silly cheese with genuine seriousness and a damn human cloning plot point that it's one of the few films I actively disliked despite my very casual, non-in depth viewing method I take with a lot of media if I'm not more personally invested in it.
Yeah I also feel the same way, and with both World and FK in that it tries to be both a bombastic blockbuster and have poignant, serious moments, but doesn't really deliver on either due to the writing and overall fearfulness to commit to one aspect when it can half-ass several.
I've been grappling with this for 7 years, and I think that the right thing to do would simply start a new franchise. None of the sequels to Jurassic Park were good after all.
Of course, this goes against the current studio system where we just do the same things over and over again.
We got so close with the Walking with Dinosaurs movies, but the studio chickened out at the last minute. We can have a good talking dinosaur movie for kids, but we can also have a good dinosaur franchise for families too. There's more than one way to bringing in people and dinosaurs together, and more than one way for them to interact.
We just need a competent director and writer, and a studio bold enough to try something new.
As usual, the case for the scaly T.rex is overstated and based on logical but not necessarily correct assumptions. Feathers do not have the same kind of theroregulatory properties as fur and we still don't understand them, and the scales preserved are tiny and in fossil sites that wouldn't preserve feathers anyway.
@Pastry And what we know about feathers tells us that much of their thermodynamic properties are more complex than we think
The reason why you don't like feathers so much is probably just your personal preference and eagerness to hop on bandwagons
The best thing to come out of the reboot movies, is Frontier's JWEvo games. Not for the stories, but for the music and loving recreations of the dinosaurs from the movies while also doing a decent job on most of the dinos they added that weren't in the movies. I'm especially appreciative of how they portrayed my favorite dinosaur so accurately, that being Suchomimus
If their hybrid dinosaur looks less like a mutated abomination than the absolute demons the carnotaurs from disney's Dinosaur were, then maybe they should have spent a little more time working on their concept art. Or, y'know. Just use the gosh darn ultimasaurus, as you suggested
This video is a perfect explanation of why i've felt more and more deflated in my interest and enjoyment of these films. At this point jurassic films aren't dinosaur films but just monster movies so i can kinda enjoy them as creature features but not dinosaur movies which is really quite sad when i think about it. We need a new dinosaur mass media that puts the science at the for front like jurassic used to (except the dilo im so sick of that design being the go to dilo) but i doubt we will ever see it holly wood won't touch dinosaurs unless its little kiddy stuff as long as universal keeps pumping out jurassic, The only one that might have a chance is privative war that if it did get a film would be R rated for the death scenes alone which has 2 novels and a comic coming out with rumors of a film in the works with more modern dinosaur designs. Planet dinosaur looks very promising but it's limited release and at least 5 hr five part run time will not get the full attention of the majority of people only the enthusiasts and those with dino crazed kids will see it.
It's sad that not too many dinosaur documentaries are promoted. That's basically the only place (outside museums and the original Jurassic Park) where we can view realistic, and up to date information on dinosaurs.
@@ricardodavis4730 Trevorrow doesnt understand the significance and importance if JP films, and the weight behind them. Aswell as the responsibilities that come with it(like for real, people and shows keep quoting Uncle Ben)
It's sad that Colin Trevorrow with JP and Kathleen kennedy and Rian Johnson for Stat wars, dont understand the fans to a more personal degree.
I’m one of those people that enjoyed Jurassic World as a monster movie. Something I expected and didn’t get with Jurassic Park. Also, I’m with you in that I don’t get all the hate for The Lost World.
Still, as a dork that got into dinosaurs via documentaries, I do agree that you could make a really cool movie with scientifically accurate dinosaurs/prehistoric megafauna. It’s one thing to entertain people but they get more entertained when they realize that it’s not made up. A weird comparison but I remember telling people that the movie 300 was actually based off an actual historical battle and blowing their minds at the time.
The problem is Hollywood is full of lazy narcissistic morons who would rather ruin everything and burn millions of dollars for the sake of ideology over telling basic storytelling, nevermind accurate portrayals of animals. Just look at the recent “Willow” sequel they made.
I think the updates in JP3 especially for the raptors was an attempt to better align the narrative of the movies with more up to date paleontology on sociology and physiology.
JP3 killed the franchise as you mentioned for 10 years and nearly indefinitely.
I imagine that may have been a controlling factor in the decisions about how to present dinosaurs going forward in the franchise.
Now my eyes have been opened… and I’m having a fucking crisis. I was around 9 when the first Jurassic World came out and I saw it with some friends and family and I loved it! It may have been my first true Jurassic film I watched, ( might’ve watched the lost world first, still hazy…) along with fallen kingdom too they were some of my best memories since I was (and still am) autistic and a bit of a loner who never really hung out with friends before. Now after watching this videos and the other movies, the truth really does hurt. Why must everything suck now? Watching Jurassic World Is no longer a fond memory, but rather a reminder of how gullible and stupid I was to have my parents pay money for me and my friends for a franchise that is so disrespectful to what came before. God it sucks so hard.😞
Accurate dinosaurs can still be terrifying. As much as the 2013 Walking With Dinosaurs movie flopped, the Gorgosaurus in that movie definitely lived up to its name of dreadful lizard, while having supinated hands, not being shrink wrapped and barely roaring.
You know, I've never noticed that the Rex did a bit of a double take when biting the tire for some reason. Kinda cute.
I love the idea of a triceratops going on an absolute rampage. Specifically a grinhouse style film where the horns progressively get covered with pieces of gored people after the beast just starts killing every human in sight. How do you stop a living tank?
I feel like one of the main differences in the trilogy's is that the first trilogy all of the dinosaurs felt like actual animals take for example in the lost world the stegosaurs only attack because sarah got too close to the baby. They had a reason to be aggressive. Meanwhile in fallen kingdom a carnotaurus attacks a sinoceratops for no reason and its make it feel unrealistic. Also most of the older designs are better.
Would love to see your review on the Dominion Giganotosaurus. I found a better Jurassic Park inspired design then the terrible Giga design
Jurassic World Evolution's Giga is a better design then the movie's. Dominion's Giga is ugly
@@redtycooner1038
Unpopular opinion: JWE Giganotosaurus looks like a Carcharodontosaurus design.
@@WhyTho525 it's almost like they tried to make another hybrid even though they said they wouldn't. The dang thing looks more like a Carcharo with Acrocanthosaurus thrown in for the spinal ridge
Link it my friend